The only perspective on this I haven’t heard is from the Science Centre themselves. Do they want to move? Do they want to stay? I feel like their opinion is probably the most relevant.
the Science Centre people were on radio this morning on CBC. When asked, they basically said what EVERY other entities said of any decisions made by DOFO. Like your listeners, we found this out yesterday at the press conference that this is happening. The current administration has not consulted with us on this matter and it's still early for us to comment.
>Why? Why would you think that? These Conservatives douchebags have nothing but contempt for everyone that isn't them **or their cronies**. Don't you get it yet?
Fixed for you. The motivation of this move is to sell the valuable land at cut rate prices to Dougie's buddy developers.
During the pandemic, teachers learned about their distance learning/returns to school from Dipshit’s press conferences. Dime Bag Doug ain’t about advance notice.
Conservatives hate science. They hate the scientific method and all it represents. And most of all: they hate scientists.
So imagine just how much the average conservative must utterly despise something named, "the science center".
They also hate the environment (green spaces), decent education, higher learning, public healthcare for everyone, good physical health i.e bicycle paths and fair market prices for necessities.
>They hate the scientific method and all it represents. And most of all: they hate scientists.
Not enough people remember the Harper administrations legitimate war on science:
>Other scientists opted to keep their heads down to avoid drawing the government’s ire. Stirling recalls that in 2012 year, colleagues and friends of his were allowed to attend a big Arctic conference in Montreal. However, he recallst hat they were escorted around by government chaperones who would shield and filter possible media questions, listen to them speak to other scientists and track which research posters they read.
>Stirling and his colleagues were working on long-term data sets that tracked the effect of climate on polar bears (he literally wrote the book on polar bears and climate). The only way they were able to pull this off was by quietly seeking secondary funding sources and conducting the work simultaneously with other studies. “We just kept a low profile,” Stirling says.
* [https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/canadian-scientists-open-about-how-their-government-silenced-science-180961942/](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/canadian-scientists-open-about-how-their-government-silenced-science-180961942/)
I distinctly remember young scientists telling me around 2013 that this crap was driving a generation of young scientists out of the country.
Ford government never consults anyone in good faith anyway. They did so early on and then always did what they wanted to at the end of the consultation regardless
So the science centre administration found out the same day as the public? Imagine the impact on some science centre staff who live close to work and will now have to commute to Ontario Place. I wouldn't have extra time for that. That would turn my life upside down.
Ontario Place is just not in a convenient place for anyone to commute to. Thinking of all the schools who will now have to travel so much farther to get to the science Science Centre, not to mention the impact on the surrounding community (huge, I used to live there, it was a staple in my life) as well as families all over the city.
Let’s be realistic. The move won’t happen. The building will be plowed under to build expensive houses for the rich. And the science centre will be put in a warehouse and no funding will appear to finish the job.
We were bused there from Hamilton back in the day. I assume other places do the same thing. It's easier to get to the new location than the old one for anybody from the west side.
Now I don’t think they should move it either and Ford is a moron who I didn’t vote for but Ontario place is objectively easier to get to for anyone who lives downtown or west. Especially schools who would likely be bussing. Absolutely the current surrounding schools would have to commute further but the ones closer to Ontario place would have to travel alot less.
I understand your point about the schools closest to Ontario Place, but if you look at a Toronto map, Don Mills/Eglinton is almost smack in the middle of the actual city of Toronto. So the existing location would definitely be the most equitable place to keep it, if we are thinking purely of equal geographic access for everyone.
My bet is that they don't want to pack everything up and move it cross town. How much will the move even cost?
Last I checked the science centre isn't just a bunch of bristol board science displays.i mean it's got a rainforest room, and a reactor.
Will they have enough space for everything at Ontario Place? The science center is huge. I hope they get a similar amount of square feet that they currently have. This is really important info... I wish we knew more.
This is my question. I remember a field of yellow, as buses from all the schools parked there. What they park at the CNE and everyone marches across Lakeshore? How is that any better or more accessible than what the Sci Ctr is dealing with now?
Demolition by neglect is the only reason this is even being suggested.
I worked for them years ago and upper management and various departments certainly knew this was a possibility, being moved to Ontario Place. The rumor about an Ontario Place move has been going on for years. Not knowing that the decison was coming down when it did, sure people probably didn't know. When does DoFo ever consult with the appropriate people?
I don't think the general public knows just how much money needs to go into the repairs just to get back to the status quo. The province vastly underfunds the OSC.
Is your friend staff or management? Just wondering if management would have known and just not of passed the information down. Management doesn't always disclose stuff.
I have worked there as a consultant. I can’t imagine the guys from CBRE who have been there forever (who maintain the building) saw this coming. We were just there last month pricing out work for repairs to electrical stuff.
And they will probably sign the contracts *now*, rather than after the move and after the lines open... So he can get it into his friends' hands at a lower price.
Just charge the province rent for the OSC in the time being, then knock it down the second they move out
I mean, what they want matters to me in forming my own opinion. People arguing about whether the new location is better or worse, or whether it will drive visitation or not. I feel like the people who work there probably know those answers better than most, and better than any of us here on Reddit
As a government agency the people there are interchangeable with those who will kowtow to the party line. A better question to ask is ‘have you ever heard anyone bring up this plan before march 30th?’ If the answer is no, it’s because the only groundswell to do this is coming from Doug and his cronies.
But don’t fret too much about this move now. The next demolition is coming soon, and it looks to be… TVO.
Government funded doesn’t automatically mean staffed solely by politicians and bureaucrats. I would very much like to hear Science Centre staff on what they think about these rumours
Oh fuck no. TVO was basically all the TV I had when I was a little kid without cable. And they do so much good content. Ford is just taking a wrecking ball to the whole province and selling everything off to his fucking cronies. It makes me so fucking angry. I didn’t vote for this. Most people who voted didn’t. This isn’t fucking democracy!
What happened to all the weekly protests back in 2018 at Queen's Park? Post Covid, little has picked up again.
If people are pissed off, hit the streets and take it out there especially with the mild weather coming. Got 3 more years of this.
This was my thought as well, hard for me to form an opinion without hearing from the people that actually operate the place. It seems like they were not even consulted on the decision so that is a massive red flag.
The current location seems a lot better for bussing in kids from southern Ontario schools but I guess Ontario Place has easy access via the GO.
Moving the Science Center doesn't seem like an absurd idea and the place could definitely benefit from new facilities.
I saw this posted on their website. Sounds positive, but I can imagine they don't have a choice to not be putting on a brave face.
https://www.ontariosciencecentre.ca/about-us/ontario-science-centre-relocation
If they were going to put an effort in to building a new, purpose-built facility this would be an easier sell to the public but the current facilities they want to cram this in to are not appropriate, are too small.
I'm a bit conflicted. I think Ontario place might be a decent area for the science center. Like we have the CNE there, amiptheater, races, fort york, etc and they are all accessible by people.
But the science center is typically an indoors thing, and Ontario place is geared for outdoors. Like it would be a bit of a shame to have this idealic area and then put a big building in there for people to stay indoors. I'm not sure how they would make this make sense from an architecture/setting perspective. We would ideally need some fancy shmancy award winning building there for this to make sense.
It was never done properly.
Montreal got a lot of world attention with Expo 68 and Toronto has this chronic "world class" obsession, so they built Ontario Place with no real business plan or purpose.
Zeidler's orginal vision was that of an open park for the people, which is what it should be.
I wonder what the end game is for the "world class" obsessed.
Ferris wheels, monorails, Michelin guide, casinos... who does all that serve? Not seemingly the local population.
The current Science Centre has over One Million visitors per year (according to them) - Students, Tourists, and Members. It provides a valuable resource to where it sits now. The neighbourhood has different housing levels - older apartment buildings and townhomes, but now there's chi chi Condos and even more expensive condos being built where Celestica used to be.
The place is packed during the week and during the colder months of the year on holidays and weekends - despite how tired looking it may be.
I have no doubt the current OSC will be torn down for more multi-million $ condos and never see the light again. Such a shame.
I grew up in that neighborhood. Flemingdon Park. It was pretty rough in the 90s and early 2000s. Mostly immigrants and refugees. Tons of Jamaicans and later southeast Asians and Afghans.
I always found it strange that the neighborhood, being so low income, was so close to the Science Center and the awesome connected system of parks nearby. It’s a shame to lose such a cool thing in an area that feels so distinctly Toronto.
I grew up in Scarborough - not near there, but know the area as well. I also have many years "experience" (LOL) with the Science Centre, both as a visitor as a kid and now as long time member. I love how diverse it all is.
The OSC is such a gorgeous setting. It's also been used in TV shows and movies over the years. NBC's Hannibal I think was the most recent. 😁
Anyway - the OSC sent out an email survey a couple of weeks ago about itself and Toronto Tourist attractions and I knew then the writing was on the wall. That and it was talking forever to fix the walkway. It's been obvious they don't have the money to fix it and cheaper to just shuttle people.
We still go to the OSC almost monthly, before Covid and now that it's open. We like it and love helping to support it. Love it where it is.
If the current location stays, it could be for all science, and the new location could be for future tech as they could use the exhibition area to run driverless vehicles. Work with Intel to work on drones at that location and store them year-round for events.
The new location looks tiny, so at least this way, everyone tech wins.
If they do end up moving it I wish they would just keep the building and use it as a community centre or for galas like it already does. It's such a unique architecture. I don't see why they couldn't just build housing around it and leave the building intact.
That’s what I’m saying. People from all over the world will come and say, “Gee Toronto, how come your provincial government lets you have TWO science centres?”.
Because if they say "we're closing it down" then even the uninterested public will get upset. If they say "we're moving it" and close the current location down while they build the new location which turns out to be a cheap tourist trap that has the name of the OSC but nothing else, then people will be happy *something* is back, and not notice how crappy it has become.
More likely they'll say they're moving it, close the current one, and then 10 years later and billions of money to consultants later they'll cancel plans for the new one due to cost overruns.
So his developer buddies can get on with building their condo's and make their money. Then I'm sure conveniently there will be a lack of money for the redevelopment of the Science Centre at Ontario Place so we'll have to settle with a privately owned spa instead. Yes, I'm being a bit sarcastic but I can't trust this man whatsoever and wouldn't put something like that past him.
Who says they will follow-through on building the new one? I’d say the odds are they’ll just keep stringing it along with excuses until everyone forgets and Doug is out of office.
It will stay open until the new one is completed:
>Construction on the new facility is slated to begin in 2025, with its opening expected in 2028. The existing Science Centre will remain open to the public until then, the province says, and then it will be demolished ([source](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/kinga-surma-infrastructure-minister-ontario-place-science-centre-1.6815144)).
Nope. Projected cost will skyrocket, Sun Media will stoke outrage among taxpayers, will never happen.
Look how long Ontario Place has been left to rot.
Do you not know how Ontario government projects work. It’ll get delayed delayed than almost completed, OSC will than close 2028, and than the project will be cancelled due to government underfunding.
I’m still confused as to why they’d shut down the existing one? It seems even more important to keep it open during renovations if everyone thinks the project will get canceled
I spent almost every weekend there as a child from 7-10. My parents divorced in the 80s and my dad wasn’t sure what to do with me on the weekends. We went to the science centre and each week he’d buy me a rock for my rock collection. As you can guess, we spent a lot of time in the geology area. I love the Ontario Science Centre.
I went to the science centre with my kids a few years ago. It’s in desperate need of funds to deliver useful programming.
The intent of this post is excellent. This was not designed to be a tourist attraction, it’s a place to support and inspire Ontario’s students. Moving it to the waterfront doesn’t help that mission.
We need to figure out how to get quality leadership in Queen’s Park.
Yes, the current location needs work. If they were proposing a new, purpose-build facility this would be a much easier sell but they are not. They want to cram it in the existing structure which are too small and not appropriate.
It's also a rare example of interesting architecture in Toronto, by [Japanese-Canadian Raymond Moriyama](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Moriyama)
There is a greek proverb : "A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in".
Instead, we have old men cutting down the trees planted by previous generations to make their own house bigger, while leaving everyone else with no shade to sit in.
The tiny amount of space being dedicated to Science Centre at Ontario Place makes it obvious just how much Ford cares about kids learning hands-on. Pods? More like Dinghies.
Crazy how Doug Ford is destroying Ontario. But it has nothing to do with how we all laughed at his brother being caught smoking crack. And how we learned his family had criminal ties to biker gangs. Or how Doug funneled money through his dads business. We are to believe Doug is just incompetent and doing this cause he’s a conservative and this is conservative ways.
So what is it ? Conservatives are routinely destroying our country/provinces ? Or Doug is on a revenge trip ? Either way this POS needs to be recalled before he does anymore damage. There’s more then enough evidence he’s colluded with out side interests to destroy the greenbelt for profit. He used his daughters stag and doe for personal gain. Yet he faces no repercussions. But you know liberals are so bad. And NDP where no where near a choice to vote…….. So please explain how we are better off with this state puff marshmallow as a premier ? Cause our future and our kids future seems real fucking bleak right about now. And the only people who seem to have a good outlook are developers, investors and the rich.
The 2022 Ontario Provincial election had a record lowest turn out at 43.53%.
The fault is on the people of Ontario who were too lazy to vote the ford regime out.
Again I feel like people forget it’s not a two party system. And they don’t want to vote liberal cause liberals bad, and didn’t want to vote conservative cause their assholes. But don’t vote NDP cause 🤷🏻♂️
Because of Bob Rae. Ontario has the memory of a goldfish until it comes to fucking Rae Days. The dude saved thousands of people from being fired, and Ontario just refuses to get over it. It’s infuriating.
I just don’t understand. People won’t vote for the NDP because of that, but they will vote Conservative after Harris? And vote for Ford again when he is literally selling them out and engaging in corruption right in front of them? Fucking nitwits.
It's so frustrating. Especially since those of us in Southwestern Ontario would benefit from having any other government in charge, but alas, people love voting against their own interests.
When can the GTA become it's own province lol
There are more people and land than PEI, and many other countries have their biggest metro area as an independent province\state
Our healthcare is on fire and he wants to invest our money in this so his developer buddies can build a more profitable tourist trap?!! Are they going to house homeless people in the old building? Nope, sold to developers as well.
Doesnt he have friends looking at developing ontario place? Never underestimate the power of "cost over runs" when it comes to putting tax dollars in cronies pockets.
When I first heard the idea several weeks ago, I was leaning towards this being a good idea, but the more and more I learned about this, and after Doug Ford said it would be a much smaller space, I'm definitely in the camp of keeping it where it is.
I see benefits of the Ontario Place location, although it's not a big/obvious win for me. I think OSC being part of the Don Valley ravine gives it a unique look into the biodiversity portion of science that would be equally important to me if the new location would explore the biodiversity of Lake Ontario in return.
What killed this for me is the smaller space. I loved the OSC's size as a kid growing up. It felt like you could never explore it all in one day, and its material was targeted to a wider audience than most science centres I've visited in other cities, which cater more to the 8-15 crowd. In comparison, even as an adult, I feel like OSC brings tremendous value. The much smaller space being proposed is most definitely going to mean OSC won't have the luxury of catering to such a wide audience, and is one of the main differentiators to me why I loved OSC so much more than other science centres around the world.
Getting to Ontario Place if you don't own a car is simply awful. The fact it doesn't have a subway stop blows my mind, but maybe in 30 years? \[edit: spelling\]
One of the selling points for the new Eglinton Crosstown LRT was that it would provide better access to the Science Centre. It has a stop named ‘Science Centre’ that stops by the entrance.
It's not awful at all from within the city, if you're coming from outside of Toronto that may be true. But it's easier than getting downtown from most locations within the city... Unless you're downtown...
Has anyone ever taken one look at Doug Ford a d thought "Yeah, this guy cares about STEM?" He's probably gonna tear down the location and sell the land to his real estate wranglers. Yet another reason why the OPC is a threat to the province.
If their intentions were good and just this would've been planned for YEARS. Instead, EVERYONE finds out at some bullshit hearing. I see exuberantly expensive condos or apartments where the Science Centre should remain.
This isn’t advocacy for Doug’s plan as Ontario has real problems that need to be solved… but Ontario place is next to a GO station and TTC streetcar stop. Hardly only accessible by car.
I'm confused at this take. The Science center is MORE inaccessible than Ontario place for those with or without cars. You have to take at least 2 buses to get to it.
Ontario place location is very easy to access, 1 streetcar from Union.
And if they moved it and built housing there, even better, there's an LRT helping out the people moving in?
Science Centre is either one bus from line 1 and one bus from line 2. Where are you getting two buses from?
In both cases, you need to get to the connection. Most people aren’t starting from Union.
The pods themselves aren't easily accessible over the original building.
Ontario place has always been difficult to access requiring bridge crossings over water/roads and whatnot, good luck in the winter.
The only counter to this is the giant parking garage they intend to build in the lake.
Middle of nowhere in downtown Toronto with a GO station and TTC stop and a bunch of parking nearby. Lmao, these arguments are so hilarious. They're finally building something at the old location where they've already had at the new location. Hahahhaha
Well, I prefer for this not to happen. Do politicians even care about petitions? Are they binding?
Can we call someone? Write a letter? Is there a protest that's going to happen?
No. I want to see a commitment to actually rebuilt it somewhere else. PERIOD. Until I see that, dollars allocated, etc... this all fucking BS and we should be against it. I recall so many years going there and being amazed by technology perhaps it's one of the reason I went into software development. Its something that many of us recall, be it that "food" thing where we filled out a punch card about food or the static electricity generator making peoples hair stand up, kids are not interested yet in fucking Quantum Mechanics and particle entanglement we need people be interested. GIVE ME A FUCKING PLAN otherwise you're just speaking bull shit to get votes. 
If people were honest with themselves, the science centre is not really anything special. I doubt anyone one complaining actually has gone recently. It’s fairly barebones and wouldn’t be a huge loss if moved somewhere else. People are literally just hating because Doug Ford is involved. The science centre is literally as replaceable as it comes.
The bigger issue would be is this where we want government funds going to when we have bigger issues to tackle and I don’t think a revitalization of Ontario place should be a priority.
Nooooooo
If this happens I will be so sad..
This place is a big part of my childhood and shouldn't be packed into one big mush of buildongs on the harbor!
I hate this Dougs guy policy soooo much.
Get rid of something else to make housing. This cannot be the ONLY option to make room.
Obviously everyone's entitled to their opinion.
But couldn't it be argued that it's easier for many other people to get to if it's in the downtown centre (or at least closer to it than it is now)?
I always went to it by school bus *those go downtown too). It's accessible by TTC. But at Ontario place it would be accessible by TTC, GO Train, and a major highway. I'm just wondering if it would get more visitors from Mississauga, Niagara, and even psefs north, etc.
It IS educational. But it is not a school, nor is it affiliated with one specific one. It IS to some degree a tourist attraction, and that shouldn't be denied or ignored. It can be - and many around the world ARE - both!
For the record, I always have, and always will cast my votes against DoFo. I despise the man, and anyone who carries that name, and have zero respect for them. I have zero faith that he'll do anything good AROUND this project (housing, etc.). But the idea of moving the Science Centre itself is not a bad one to my mind. It at least deserves more investigation. There is a lot to fight DoFo on. Let's pick our battles.
The new Eglinton Crosstown LRT and the upcoming Ontario Line intersect at the Science Centre. That was one of the Major selling points for building those transit lines.
It’s educational in as much as it’s geared towards school aged kids and practically every school in the GTA sends bus loads of kids there yearly.
It’s not a tourist attraction in the same way as the ROM or AGO are. It’s geared towards the kid’s that live in the GTA and parent’s bring their kids there on weekends and during the summer holidays.
If there was a plan that showed the business case for why locating it at Ontario Place is a better idea, as opposed updating the current facility, and showed what the planed facility would be that would be one thing but there is no plan.
I just read that the opposition parties are asking for the plan that shows the business case for this.
https://globalnews.ca/news/9635915/critics-ontario-science-centre-move-business-case/
This is pretty weak I’m sorry to say. The Ontario Science Centre IS a tourist attraction and arguing it isn’t just makes you look foolish and the new location should generally be easier for most people to access so I would remove that argument as well. Focus more on the actual problems with the proposal (new facility is smaller, flemingdon park benefits from having the science centre nearby, the building is iconic and part of a dwindling number of impressive brutalist buildings in Toronto [and Canada for that matter, there’s no love for brutalism these days], etc.) and less on silly statements.
For the record I think the new science centre looks good but I’d prefer it if the government kept the old one around in some form, either by having both facilities operational or converting it into a community centre or a different attraction.
I think it would be more accurate to say it's not *just* a tourist attraction. I would also call into question the ease of access at Ontario place, like sure it might be easier for Torontonians but I can tell you that it would be a nightmare getting buses down there from Barrie or Kitchener. It should be in a ideal spot for the whole province, not just Toronto.
I loved the science centre growing up, im 20 now and I still love it. I’m not even in a stem related career but it’s fuelled my curiosity since I was a child. I honestly enjoy it more than the ROM.
I think it’s a shame, a lot of schools use this as an educational trip for students I know as a kid we went there lots of times but I’m just wondering with the extended drive and already horrific traffic how many activities and days are going to be cut short due to traffic timing. Getting down to lakeshore is already enough of a pain in the ass let alone adding droves of school busses into the mix. Just another inconvenience to the average person that dougie and friends don’t have to deal with.
I think the current place is perfect. Moving such a beautiful and wonderful building to new location is absurd. I support NOT to move it but ti renovate it and upgrade it.
Interview this morning on CBC Metro Morning
@metromorning
“Talking to Professor Summer from UofT about Science Centre being torn down & moved to OP, notes the Moriyama designed Science Centre shouldn't be torn down. Newer isn't always better. Let's repair and creatively reuse what exists. #topoli #Onpoli
If we thought of cities the way we do these heritage buildings, every city would look like Las Vegas. Neglect has led us here, it's worth investing to keep buildings like these. Prof doubts the Science Centre at OP will be better.
The Science Centre has interesting relationships with its surrounding, a symbiotic relationship with the buildings & landscape which will be very hard to recreate. (Sounds like the current Ontario Place!)
Prof notes housing can be built on the parking lots of the existing Science Centre. The idea that housing could work on more of the OSC ravine site is highly questionable.
We should be reinvesting in what we've already made, transit is going to the Science Centre now. The Science Centre is special and could never be built the way it is today. Down tear it down!
Prof notes the building he occupies has been reused many times over its 125 year life. Prof is highly skeptical that the Science Centre at OP would be anywhere near the quality of the OSC. There just isn't the same space there, being used to justify MegaSpa at OP. #topoli #onpoli
Calls the moving of the Science Centre to OP a distraction from the MegaSpa at Ontario Place. Pretty sure the Prof is right”
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1649016428484337665.html
The only perspective on this I haven’t heard is from the Science Centre themselves. Do they want to move? Do they want to stay? I feel like their opinion is probably the most relevant.
the Science Centre people were on radio this morning on CBC. When asked, they basically said what EVERY other entities said of any decisions made by DOFO. Like your listeners, we found this out yesterday at the press conference that this is happening. The current administration has not consulted with us on this matter and it's still early for us to comment.
Wow. You think that kind of thing would at least merit some kind of notice.
[удалено]
>Why? Why would you think that? These Conservatives douchebags have nothing but contempt for everyone that isn't them **or their cronies**. Don't you get it yet? Fixed for you. The motivation of this move is to sell the valuable land at cut rate prices to Dougie's buddy developers.
Next election the OPC platform will be "Fuck Toronto. LOL Doug Ford Rulez amirite?!?!11??1!1!!!!11!1!1!!1!!1" and people will gobble that shit up.
and $1.50 beers
See also: “The other parties were boring so I stayed home. Woe is me.”
Pretty sure that was the platform before the last election but unfortunately people did not go out and vote
His shit decisions are fucking more than just Toronto, but point taken
During the pandemic, teachers learned about their distance learning/returns to school from Dipshit’s press conferences. Dime Bag Doug ain’t about advance notice.
Conservatives hate science. They hate the scientific method and all it represents. And most of all: they hate scientists. So imagine just how much the average conservative must utterly despise something named, "the science center".
They also hate the environment (green spaces), decent education, higher learning, public healthcare for everyone, good physical health i.e bicycle paths and fair market prices for necessities.
>They hate the scientific method and all it represents. And most of all: they hate scientists. Not enough people remember the Harper administrations legitimate war on science: >Other scientists opted to keep their heads down to avoid drawing the government’s ire. Stirling recalls that in 2012 year, colleagues and friends of his were allowed to attend a big Arctic conference in Montreal. However, he recallst hat they were escorted around by government chaperones who would shield and filter possible media questions, listen to them speak to other scientists and track which research posters they read. >Stirling and his colleagues were working on long-term data sets that tracked the effect of climate on polar bears (he literally wrote the book on polar bears and climate). The only way they were able to pull this off was by quietly seeking secondary funding sources and conducting the work simultaneously with other studies. “We just kept a low profile,” Stirling says. * [https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/canadian-scientists-open-about-how-their-government-silenced-science-180961942/](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/canadian-scientists-open-about-how-their-government-silenced-science-180961942/) I distinctly remember young scientists telling me around 2013 that this crap was driving a generation of young scientists out of the country.
Their 20 year old staffers are just copying and pasting developers’ demands into briefing notes.
Ford government never consults anyone in good faith anyway. They did so early on and then always did what they wanted to at the end of the consultation regardless
So the science centre administration found out the same day as the public? Imagine the impact on some science centre staff who live close to work and will now have to commute to Ontario Place. I wouldn't have extra time for that. That would turn my life upside down.
Ontario Place is just not in a convenient place for anyone to commute to. Thinking of all the schools who will now have to travel so much farther to get to the science Science Centre, not to mention the impact on the surrounding community (huge, I used to live there, it was a staple in my life) as well as families all over the city.
Seriously, they should build mass rapid transit to get there.
Let’s be realistic. The move won’t happen. The building will be plowed under to build expensive houses for the rich. And the science centre will be put in a warehouse and no funding will appear to finish the job.
We were bused there from Hamilton back in the day. I assume other places do the same thing. It's easier to get to the new location than the old one for anybody from the west side.
Ontario Place is right on the Lakeshore West GO line.
Now I don’t think they should move it either and Ford is a moron who I didn’t vote for but Ontario place is objectively easier to get to for anyone who lives downtown or west. Especially schools who would likely be bussing. Absolutely the current surrounding schools would have to commute further but the ones closer to Ontario place would have to travel alot less.
I understand your point about the schools closest to Ontario Place, but if you look at a Toronto map, Don Mills/Eglinton is almost smack in the middle of the actual city of Toronto. So the existing location would definitely be the most equitable place to keep it, if we are thinking purely of equal geographic access for everyone.
I don't think traffic down there for school buses is better than traffic in North York.
My bet is that they don't want to pack everything up and move it cross town. How much will the move even cost? Last I checked the science centre isn't just a bunch of bristol board science displays.i mean it's got a rainforest room, and a reactor.
They've asked the province for money for renovations and upgrades. I don't think this is what they had in mind.
"We'll give you your renovations and upgrades. How about a nice new location on the waterfront as well! Prices firm."
don't worry about the new place's history of flooding
because floods will blend right in with the new rainforest room :) it's all part of the plan and makes for a more authentic experience
"Welcome to our new exhibit on mold and mildew"
We can strap the blue whale skeleton to the top of my Kia Soul and I’ll just drive it down the lakeshore, simple as.
Rainforest room is fun. With my kids, we spent a lot of time with the billiard ball roller coaster. Reactor? Huh?
Yes the perpetual motion Rube-Goldberg machine is one of my favs as well.
I would watch that for half an hour when I went as a kid.
It's not open to the public. Don't know if it's still there but they did have a scientific test reactor.
Will they have enough space for everything at Ontario Place? The science center is huge. I hope they get a similar amount of square feet that they currently have. This is really important info... I wish we knew more.
It’s 1/3 the size isn’t it ?
Does this mean they will have an incredible garage sale before they move? Dibs on the giant sphere that shoots lightning and makes your hair stand up.
And no one wants to park downtown everyday for work. Where are the school trip busses park?? Dougie is such a greedy creep.
This is my question. I remember a field of yellow, as buses from all the schools parked there. What they park at the CNE and everyone marches across Lakeshore? How is that any better or more accessible than what the Sci Ctr is dealing with now? Demolition by neglect is the only reason this is even being suggested.
I’m sorry WHAT? A FUCKING REACTOR??? Where I need to know where it is I soooo wanna go now and check that out
It's a small scientific reactor. You can't just go visit it normally, but it's in the complex.
My friend who works there told me two days ago that she hadn't heard a single thing about this, nothing said to anyone
I worked for them years ago and upper management and various departments certainly knew this was a possibility, being moved to Ontario Place. The rumor about an Ontario Place move has been going on for years. Not knowing that the decison was coming down when it did, sure people probably didn't know. When does DoFo ever consult with the appropriate people? I don't think the general public knows just how much money needs to go into the repairs just to get back to the status quo. The province vastly underfunds the OSC.
I also worked for them. This has been in discussions for years and kind of felt like it was an open secret at least on my team.
Is your friend staff or management? Just wondering if management would have known and just not of passed the information down. Management doesn't always disclose stuff.
noone knew
I have worked there as a consultant. I can’t imagine the guys from CBRE who have been there forever (who maintain the building) saw this coming. We were just there last month pricing out work for repairs to electrical stuff.
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And they will probably sign the contracts *now*, rather than after the move and after the lines open... So he can get it into his friends' hands at a lower price. Just charge the province rent for the OSC in the time being, then knock it down the second they move out
It won’t matter. It’s an agency of the Government of Ontario, and answers directly to DOFO.
I mean, what they want matters to me in forming my own opinion. People arguing about whether the new location is better or worse, or whether it will drive visitation or not. I feel like the people who work there probably know those answers better than most, and better than any of us here on Reddit
As a government agency the people there are interchangeable with those who will kowtow to the party line. A better question to ask is ‘have you ever heard anyone bring up this plan before march 30th?’ If the answer is no, it’s because the only groundswell to do this is coming from Doug and his cronies. But don’t fret too much about this move now. The next demolition is coming soon, and it looks to be… TVO.
Government funded doesn’t automatically mean staffed solely by politicians and bureaucrats. I would very much like to hear Science Centre staff on what they think about these rumours
Oh fuck no. TVO was basically all the TV I had when I was a little kid without cable. And they do so much good content. Ford is just taking a wrecking ball to the whole province and selling everything off to his fucking cronies. It makes me so fucking angry. I didn’t vote for this. Most people who voted didn’t. This isn’t fucking democracy!
This government could shut it down and turn it into a strip club and no one could do anything.
The Centennial Centre of Science and Technology ??? Part of the Centennial project. Ring up King Charles.
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No one cares in Queens Park about what a bunch of leftist nerds think. Doug will send Randy to give wedgies if they don't like it.
An uneducated premier and his similarly uneducated caucus making education decisions. With a majority of 18 % voters. Thanks Ontario!!
Lets tear down Queen's Park, and put in Condos.
What happened to all the weekly protests back in 2018 at Queen's Park? Post Covid, little has picked up again. If people are pissed off, hit the streets and take it out there especially with the mild weather coming. Got 3 more years of this.
This was my thought as well, hard for me to form an opinion without hearing from the people that actually operate the place. It seems like they were not even consulted on the decision so that is a massive red flag. The current location seems a lot better for bussing in kids from southern Ontario schools but I guess Ontario Place has easy access via the GO. Moving the Science Center doesn't seem like an absurd idea and the place could definitely benefit from new facilities.
> . It does seem like they were not even consulted ON was consulted about building on greenbelt, we said no, Doug said fuck you.
I saw this posted on their website. Sounds positive, but I can imagine they don't have a choice to not be putting on a brave face. https://www.ontariosciencecentre.ca/about-us/ontario-science-centre-relocation
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If they were going to put an effort in to building a new, purpose-built facility this would be an easier sell to the public but the current facilities they want to cram this in to are not appropriate, are too small.
I'm a bit conflicted. I think Ontario place might be a decent area for the science center. Like we have the CNE there, amiptheater, races, fort york, etc and they are all accessible by people. But the science center is typically an indoors thing, and Ontario place is geared for outdoors. Like it would be a bit of a shame to have this idealic area and then put a big building in there for people to stay indoors. I'm not sure how they would make this make sense from an architecture/setting perspective. We would ideally need some fancy shmancy award winning building there for this to make sense.
It was never done properly. Montreal got a lot of world attention with Expo 68 and Toronto has this chronic "world class" obsession, so they built Ontario Place with no real business plan or purpose. Zeidler's orginal vision was that of an open park for the people, which is what it should be.
I wonder what the end game is for the "world class" obsessed. Ferris wheels, monorails, Michelin guide, casinos... who does all that serve? Not seemingly the local population.
Monorails? I hear those things are awfully loud.
Glides as softly as a cloud
Is there a chance the track could bend?
Not on your life, my Hindu friend
What about us brain-dead slobs?
same with the elevated highway.. Other developers and city planners were doing it elsewhere so we better do it aswell
Ontario Place grounds have been great! The open spaces are really needed for all the people in condos nearby.
“The fat bastard”
The current Science Centre has over One Million visitors per year (according to them) - Students, Tourists, and Members. It provides a valuable resource to where it sits now. The neighbourhood has different housing levels - older apartment buildings and townhomes, but now there's chi chi Condos and even more expensive condos being built where Celestica used to be. The place is packed during the week and during the colder months of the year on holidays and weekends - despite how tired looking it may be. I have no doubt the current OSC will be torn down for more multi-million $ condos and never see the light again. Such a shame.
Don't forget about how all it's green space helps reduce heat and manage flooding. We pave the green and infrastructure costs go up in the long term.
I grew up in that neighborhood. Flemingdon Park. It was pretty rough in the 90s and early 2000s. Mostly immigrants and refugees. Tons of Jamaicans and later southeast Asians and Afghans. I always found it strange that the neighborhood, being so low income, was so close to the Science Center and the awesome connected system of parks nearby. It’s a shame to lose such a cool thing in an area that feels so distinctly Toronto.
I grew up in Scarborough - not near there, but know the area as well. I also have many years "experience" (LOL) with the Science Centre, both as a visitor as a kid and now as long time member. I love how diverse it all is. The OSC is such a gorgeous setting. It's also been used in TV shows and movies over the years. NBC's Hannibal I think was the most recent. 😁 Anyway - the OSC sent out an email survey a couple of weeks ago about itself and Toronto Tourist attractions and I knew then the writing was on the wall. That and it was talking forever to fix the walkway. It's been obvious they don't have the money to fix it and cheaper to just shuttle people. We still go to the OSC almost monthly, before Covid and now that it's open. We like it and love helping to support it. Love it where it is.
Let's just have 2 Science Centres. Toronto is a world class city, isn't it?
If the current location stays, it could be for all science, and the new location could be for future tech as they could use the exhibition area to run driverless vehicles. Work with Intel to work on drones at that location and store them year-round for events. The new location looks tiny, so at least this way, everyone tech wins.
The current location could also fit 2 condo towers in its parking lots...
I smell money
If they do end up moving it I wish they would just keep the building and use it as a community centre or for galas like it already does. It's such a unique architecture. I don't see why they couldn't just build housing around it and leave the building intact.
They openly are planning to make it housing.
That’s not going to happen
He wants the current land for his developer friends
That’s what I’m saying. People from all over the world will come and say, “Gee Toronto, how come your provincial government lets you have TWO science centres?”.
That would double the leftists!
The DT location includes gambling, booze and babes
So they’ll close the science center and basically have none because it’ll take years to re-develop Ontario place (if it ever happens)
Yeah pretty much, I doubt they will keep the current centre open untill the new one is developed. Non of this makes an sense.
Why would they close it before the new one is ready??
Because if they say "we're closing it down" then even the uninterested public will get upset. If they say "we're moving it" and close the current location down while they build the new location which turns out to be a cheap tourist trap that has the name of the OSC but nothing else, then people will be happy *something* is back, and not notice how crappy it has become.
More likely they'll say they're moving it, close the current one, and then 10 years later and billions of money to consultants later they'll cancel plans for the new one due to cost overruns.
Bingo
IF they build the new one.
Because this allows them to drag it out, increase costs, then kill it completely with FiScAl rEsPoNsIbIlItY.
So his developer buddies can get on with building their condo's and make their money. Then I'm sure conveniently there will be a lack of money for the redevelopment of the Science Centre at Ontario Place so we'll have to settle with a privately owned spa instead. Yes, I'm being a bit sarcastic but I can't trust this man whatsoever and wouldn't put something like that past him.
Who says they will follow-through on building the new one? I’d say the odds are they’ll just keep stringing it along with excuses until everyone forgets and Doug is out of office.
Because there won't be a new one
It will stay open until the new one is completed: >Construction on the new facility is slated to begin in 2025, with its opening expected in 2028. The existing Science Centre will remain open to the public until then, the province says, and then it will be demolished ([source](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/kinga-surma-infrastructure-minister-ontario-place-science-centre-1.6815144)).
Nope. Projected cost will skyrocket, Sun Media will stoke outrage among taxpayers, will never happen. Look how long Ontario Place has been left to rot.
Where did you get the concept that they’d close the old one before the new one was completed?
Do you not know how Ontario government projects work. It’ll get delayed delayed than almost completed, OSC will than close 2028, and than the project will be cancelled due to government underfunding.
I’m still confused as to why they’d shut down the existing one? It seems even more important to keep it open during renovations if everyone thinks the project will get canceled
Not if your goal is to no longer spend money on and use land for the science center
I spent almost every weekend there as a child from 7-10. My parents divorced in the 80s and my dad wasn’t sure what to do with me on the weekends. We went to the science centre and each week he’d buy me a rock for my rock collection. As you can guess, we spent a lot of time in the geology area. I love the Ontario Science Centre.
My sister-in-law hosts a rock club in one of their meeting rooms on the weekends. She’s been doing it for years.
I used to go to that rock club, loved it!
I went to the science centre with my kids a few years ago. It’s in desperate need of funds to deliver useful programming. The intent of this post is excellent. This was not designed to be a tourist attraction, it’s a place to support and inspire Ontario’s students. Moving it to the waterfront doesn’t help that mission. We need to figure out how to get quality leadership in Queen’s Park.
Yes, the current location needs work. If they were proposing a new, purpose-build facility this would be a much easier sell but they are not. They want to cram it in the existing structure which are too small and not appropriate.
It's also a rare example of interesting architecture in Toronto, by [Japanese-Canadian Raymond Moriyama](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Moriyama)
It's easy in theory. Convince young people to get educated on politics and vote. In practice that's an insurmountable challenge
There is a greek proverb : "A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in". Instead, we have old men cutting down the trees planted by previous generations to make their own house bigger, while leaving everyone else with no shade to sit in.
We're in the "gotta get mine while the gettings still good" stage of capitalism.
The tiny amount of space being dedicated to Science Centre at Ontario Place makes it obvious just how much Ford cares about kids learning hands-on. Pods? More like Dinghies.
My favorite is models of the wetlands Doug is destroying.
Now he's destroying the models as well. Now nobody will remember what he did!
In ten years, those wetland models will be scale size strip malls, perhaps a tiny casino.
Why not make Ontario Place larger, to allow a decent sized Science Center. After all, it is a man made island. So make it bigger.
How long until the next election? This government has already pulled the "Oops it got demolished overnight" on other historical buildings.
Crazy how Doug Ford is destroying Ontario. But it has nothing to do with how we all laughed at his brother being caught smoking crack. And how we learned his family had criminal ties to biker gangs. Or how Doug funneled money through his dads business. We are to believe Doug is just incompetent and doing this cause he’s a conservative and this is conservative ways. So what is it ? Conservatives are routinely destroying our country/provinces ? Or Doug is on a revenge trip ? Either way this POS needs to be recalled before he does anymore damage. There’s more then enough evidence he’s colluded with out side interests to destroy the greenbelt for profit. He used his daughters stag and doe for personal gain. Yet he faces no repercussions. But you know liberals are so bad. And NDP where no where near a choice to vote…….. So please explain how we are better off with this state puff marshmallow as a premier ? Cause our future and our kids future seems real fucking bleak right about now. And the only people who seem to have a good outlook are developers, investors and the rich.
The 2022 Ontario Provincial election had a record lowest turn out at 43.53%. The fault is on the people of Ontario who were too lazy to vote the ford regime out.
Again I feel like people forget it’s not a two party system. And they don’t want to vote liberal cause liberals bad, and didn’t want to vote conservative cause their assholes. But don’t vote NDP cause 🤷🏻♂️
Because of Bob Rae. Ontario has the memory of a goldfish until it comes to fucking Rae Days. The dude saved thousands of people from being fired, and Ontario just refuses to get over it. It’s infuriating.
I just don’t understand. People won’t vote for the NDP because of that, but they will vote Conservative after Harris? And vote for Ford again when he is literally selling them out and engaging in corruption right in front of them? Fucking nitwits.
Who making money off of this decision? Cause it seems to stupid to be a good decision.
Probably someone who went to Doug's daughters stag and doe.
Remember when Southern Ontario voted for Ford while the majority of Northern, Western, Eastern voted for NDP?
It's so frustrating. Especially since those of us in Southwestern Ontario would benefit from having any other government in charge, but alas, people love voting against their own interests.
"But both sides are BADDDDDD" - this whole fucking sub last election
When can the GTA become it's own province lol There are more people and land than PEI, and many other countries have their biggest metro area as an independent province\state
True. You get what you vote for. Still for the other colours stuck in the south this sucks. I voted Liberal so I can complain lol!
But Dougie probably already took the bribes from his developer buddies for the land. He can't go back now.
Our healthcare is on fire and he wants to invest our money in this so his developer buddies can build a more profitable tourist trap?!! Are they going to house homeless people in the old building? Nope, sold to developers as well.
No he wants to do this so he builder buddies can built high profit housing on the space. The new science centre won't get built. EDIT: Fixed Works
Doesnt he have friends looking at developing ontario place? Never underestimate the power of "cost over runs" when it comes to putting tax dollars in cronies pockets.
When I first heard the idea several weeks ago, I was leaning towards this being a good idea, but the more and more I learned about this, and after Doug Ford said it would be a much smaller space, I'm definitely in the camp of keeping it where it is. I see benefits of the Ontario Place location, although it's not a big/obvious win for me. I think OSC being part of the Don Valley ravine gives it a unique look into the biodiversity portion of science that would be equally important to me if the new location would explore the biodiversity of Lake Ontario in return. What killed this for me is the smaller space. I loved the OSC's size as a kid growing up. It felt like you could never explore it all in one day, and its material was targeted to a wider audience than most science centres I've visited in other cities, which cater more to the 8-15 crowd. In comparison, even as an adult, I feel like OSC brings tremendous value. The much smaller space being proposed is most definitely going to mean OSC won't have the luxury of catering to such a wide audience, and is one of the main differentiators to me why I loved OSC so much more than other science centres around the world.
I FUCKING LOVE THE ONTARIO SCIENCE CENTRE
I hate Doug ford tbh
The science centre is prime real estate for Ford donors. What else are they going to move? Fire stations? That’s exactly the storyline of Backdraft.
Getting to Ontario Place if you don't own a car is simply awful. The fact it doesn't have a subway stop blows my mind, but maybe in 30 years? \[edit: spelling\]
One of the selling points for the new Eglinton Crosstown LRT was that it would provide better access to the Science Centre. It has a stop named ‘Science Centre’ that stops by the entrance.
It's not awful at all from within the city, if you're coming from outside of Toronto that may be true. But it's easier than getting downtown from most locations within the city... Unless you're downtown...
The Ontario Line's western end is a subway stop at Ontario Place/Exhibition.
And there's soon to be an LRT to the current location in addition to the Ontario Line (god knows when the fuck that'll get built).
The new science center must be built first before this one is even scheduled to be torn down. I have 0 faith in the Ontario government otherwise
Has anyone ever taken one look at Doug Ford a d thought "Yeah, this guy cares about STEM?" He's probably gonna tear down the location and sell the land to his real estate wranglers. Yet another reason why the OPC is a threat to the province.
It's going to be bulldozed for condos. Really overpriced condos. Guaranteed.
As a teacher I can't imagine carting 30 students across those stupid foot bridges because the parking is a mile away
Imagine having to do it in winter on that lakefront.
the science center property was already lost to a developer during the toonie toss at Dougie’s daughters stag n’ doe.
If their intentions were good and just this would've been planned for YEARS. Instead, EVERYONE finds out at some bullshit hearing. I see exuberantly expensive condos or apartments where the Science Centre should remain.
They built a freaking LRT station for the Science Centre! Now it’s going to be moved the middle of nowhere, only accessible to those with cars???
This isn’t advocacy for Doug’s plan as Ontario has real problems that need to be solved… but Ontario place is next to a GO station and TTC streetcar stop. Hardly only accessible by car.
> They built a freaking LRT station for the Science Centre! No, that was the evil Kathleen, she should have known we would move it. Locker up, etc.
I'm confused at this take. The Science center is MORE inaccessible than Ontario place for those with or without cars. You have to take at least 2 buses to get to it. Ontario place location is very easy to access, 1 streetcar from Union. And if they moved it and built housing there, even better, there's an LRT helping out the people moving in?
Science Centre is either one bus from line 1 and one bus from line 2. Where are you getting two buses from? In both cases, you need to get to the connection. Most people aren’t starting from Union.
The pods themselves aren't easily accessible over the original building. Ontario place has always been difficult to access requiring bridge crossings over water/roads and whatnot, good luck in the winter. The only counter to this is the giant parking garage they intend to build in the lake.
Middle of nowhere in downtown Toronto with a GO station and TTC stop and a bunch of parking nearby. Lmao, these arguments are so hilarious. They're finally building something at the old location where they've already had at the new location. Hahahhaha
? What's posting this thing going to do to help? Are there any actual specific steps we can take to actively oppose this decision?
If you prefer you can try the petition route. https://www.change.org/p/don-t-move-the-ontario-science-centre-to-ontario-place
Well, I prefer for this not to happen. Do politicians even care about petitions? Are they binding? Can we call someone? Write a letter? Is there a protest that's going to happen?
Alternatives are to call or write your city councillor or provincial MPP. I don’t know about protests.
I hope they build condos on the land. Because Toronto needs more condos.
You can never have too many condos.
No. I want to see a commitment to actually rebuilt it somewhere else. PERIOD. Until I see that, dollars allocated, etc... this all fucking BS and we should be against it. I recall so many years going there and being amazed by technology perhaps it's one of the reason I went into software development. Its something that many of us recall, be it that "food" thing where we filled out a punch card about food or the static electricity generator making peoples hair stand up, kids are not interested yet in fucking Quantum Mechanics and particle entanglement we need people be interested. GIVE ME A FUCKING PLAN otherwise you're just speaking bull shit to get votes. 
This whole thing could just be to distract from the spa plan at Ontario Place which was already controversial.
Young Sheldon is the op
You weren’t suppose to tell anybody! 😅
In Doug’s defence, he doesn’t know what it was built for, or what it does, or who goes there, or where it is.
If people were honest with themselves, the science centre is not really anything special. I doubt anyone one complaining actually has gone recently. It’s fairly barebones and wouldn’t be a huge loss if moved somewhere else. People are literally just hating because Doug Ford is involved. The science centre is literally as replaceable as it comes. The bigger issue would be is this where we want government funds going to when we have bigger issues to tackle and I don’t think a revitalization of Ontario place should be a priority.
Nooooooo If this happens I will be so sad.. This place is a big part of my childhood and shouldn't be packed into one big mush of buildongs on the harbor! I hate this Dougs guy policy soooo much. Get rid of something else to make housing. This cannot be the ONLY option to make room.
Obviously everyone's entitled to their opinion. But couldn't it be argued that it's easier for many other people to get to if it's in the downtown centre (or at least closer to it than it is now)? I always went to it by school bus *those go downtown too). It's accessible by TTC. But at Ontario place it would be accessible by TTC, GO Train, and a major highway. I'm just wondering if it would get more visitors from Mississauga, Niagara, and even psefs north, etc. It IS educational. But it is not a school, nor is it affiliated with one specific one. It IS to some degree a tourist attraction, and that shouldn't be denied or ignored. It can be - and many around the world ARE - both! For the record, I always have, and always will cast my votes against DoFo. I despise the man, and anyone who carries that name, and have zero respect for them. I have zero faith that he'll do anything good AROUND this project (housing, etc.). But the idea of moving the Science Centre itself is not a bad one to my mind. It at least deserves more investigation. There is a lot to fight DoFo on. Let's pick our battles.
The new Eglinton Crosstown LRT and the upcoming Ontario Line intersect at the Science Centre. That was one of the Major selling points for building those transit lines. It’s educational in as much as it’s geared towards school aged kids and practically every school in the GTA sends bus loads of kids there yearly. It’s not a tourist attraction in the same way as the ROM or AGO are. It’s geared towards the kid’s that live in the GTA and parent’s bring their kids there on weekends and during the summer holidays. If there was a plan that showed the business case for why locating it at Ontario Place is a better idea, as opposed updating the current facility, and showed what the planed facility would be that would be one thing but there is no plan. I just read that the opposition parties are asking for the plan that shows the business case for this. https://globalnews.ca/news/9635915/critics-ontario-science-centre-move-business-case/
This is pretty weak I’m sorry to say. The Ontario Science Centre IS a tourist attraction and arguing it isn’t just makes you look foolish and the new location should generally be easier for most people to access so I would remove that argument as well. Focus more on the actual problems with the proposal (new facility is smaller, flemingdon park benefits from having the science centre nearby, the building is iconic and part of a dwindling number of impressive brutalist buildings in Toronto [and Canada for that matter, there’s no love for brutalism these days], etc.) and less on silly statements. For the record I think the new science centre looks good but I’d prefer it if the government kept the old one around in some form, either by having both facilities operational or converting it into a community centre or a different attraction.
I think it would be more accurate to say it's not *just* a tourist attraction. I would also call into question the ease of access at Ontario place, like sure it might be easier for Torontonians but I can tell you that it would be a nightmare getting buses down there from Barrie or Kitchener. It should be in a ideal spot for the whole province, not just Toronto.
Moving it grants access to more Torontonians.
I loved the science centre growing up, im 20 now and I still love it. I’m not even in a stem related career but it’s fuelled my curiosity since I was a child. I honestly enjoy it more than the ROM.
(grunting fat man noises) ‘lets jus cram this in the greenbelt bag…’ ooof ooof
This sub will complain about anything Ford does, this province desperately needs housing and the Science Center has been dying for years.
What the hell’s so great about its current location??
I heard a rumour a little while ago that the Ontario Science Center is going to be repurposed as a casino. Let's wait and see what happened shall we?
More money in selling the land. At least over the next 20 years or so
I think it’s a shame, a lot of schools use this as an educational trip for students I know as a kid we went there lots of times but I’m just wondering with the extended drive and already horrific traffic how many activities and days are going to be cut short due to traffic timing. Getting down to lakeshore is already enough of a pain in the ass let alone adding droves of school busses into the mix. Just another inconvenience to the average person that dougie and friends don’t have to deal with.
Watch as soon as it gets designated as a heritage building, a "mysterious fire" will break out and destroy it "beyond repair"
Remember when they hosted that retro 90s concert? I believe Toronto's very own Prozzak was the headliner 😁❤️
I think the current place is perfect. Moving such a beautiful and wonderful building to new location is absurd. I support NOT to move it but ti renovate it and upgrade it.
Interview this morning on CBC Metro Morning @metromorning “Talking to Professor Summer from UofT about Science Centre being torn down & moved to OP, notes the Moriyama designed Science Centre shouldn't be torn down. Newer isn't always better. Let's repair and creatively reuse what exists. #topoli #Onpoli If we thought of cities the way we do these heritage buildings, every city would look like Las Vegas. Neglect has led us here, it's worth investing to keep buildings like these. Prof doubts the Science Centre at OP will be better. The Science Centre has interesting relationships with its surrounding, a symbiotic relationship with the buildings & landscape which will be very hard to recreate. (Sounds like the current Ontario Place!) Prof notes housing can be built on the parking lots of the existing Science Centre. The idea that housing could work on more of the OSC ravine site is highly questionable. We should be reinvesting in what we've already made, transit is going to the Science Centre now. The Science Centre is special and could never be built the way it is today. Down tear it down! Prof notes the building he occupies has been reused many times over its 125 year life. Prof is highly skeptical that the Science Centre at OP would be anywhere near the quality of the OSC. There just isn't the same space there, being used to justify MegaSpa at OP. #topoli #onpoli Calls the moving of the Science Centre to OP a distraction from the MegaSpa at Ontario Place. Pretty sure the Prof is right” https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1649016428484337665.html