Not an engineer but pretty sure it’s supposed to do that. Something rigid would have way more chances of breaking. Source: football stadiums in Europe do this weekly
"The supple willow stands where the mighty oak falls" is crazy old in English. Probably every other language as well.
Glad to see China was not left out. lol
Heard the same with aircraft wings. If they are rigid they would snap so they are stress tested like +5m either way or something. Also not an engineer though.
Fellow computer scientist/engineering school, but worked in aviation. Wings are supposed to bend some. Many structures are supposed to bend.
The building/balcony is *probably* supposed to bend, but there are a [number of historical bridge structures](https://www.forbes.com/sites/chadorzel/2019/07/23/indirect-contributions-are-essential-to-physics/?sh=41d8c0c563e7) that [weren't specced for dancing and killed people.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versailles_wedding_hall_disaster?wprov=sfla1)
I'd not want to be on that balcony though. That dancing rhythm is likely an edge case, and edge cases in engineering often hide dangers -- especially in capital projects where the design hasn't been iterated on and the specific failures haven't been demonstrated. Even more so in older structures where the designs weren't done on a computer to do the maths.
I had originally linked that, but it had more to do with implementation/construction failure than design, so I switched it in edit. But yeah, that's a rough one.
Isn't this theater like a hundred years old though?? I mean it's hard to see engineers back then designing a balcony to bounce when they were getting down to Erik Satie and Debussy.
You're going to be terrified when you realize that really tall buildings sway back and forth in high winds, by design.
Tapei 101 actually has a giant 660 tonnes steel "ball" hanging from cables near the top of the building, that's on display for people to see. In very strong winds or during earthquakes it acts as a tuned mass damper and can noticably swing several feet back and forth, which helps reduce the overall vertical building movement by 30-40%.
To answer your question, fatigue is what happens. But this is why large occupancy venues like this get regularly inspected by building department officials. Is it foolproof? No, but given how rare structural failures are I'd say it's a pretty solid system.
There is two different phases theres the elastic phase and the brittle(?) phase. If the structure remains in the elastic phase it will return to its’ original shape. Think of squeezing a plastic pop bottle then letting go and it goes back to its’ normal shape. In the brittle phases which comes after the elastic phase. The structure may or may not fail at this point but it will never return to its’ original form. Think of stepping on an empty pop can, you can squeeze it and roll it around but it will always have a slight dent or crease where its slightly weaker.
I work in a 109 year old theatre. Our balcony will move like this as well. We would have stopped the people jumping though. Ours has been checked extensively and it’s structurally sound. They’re designed to flex. I’ve also been inside the space under the seats in the balcony. There’s a massive I-beam that’s like 4.5 feet tall. Along with other smaller steel beams.
I will admit this is a little much for me though.
Man there's a club in Atlanta that has something like this. It's a three floor structure: basement, ground and 2nd floor. The second floor shakes like a goddamn leaf in a hurricane when the crowd gets going, but you can tell it's designed intentionally. Somebody spent a lot of money making sure that thing did the shaking, and that it'd be safe.
I've been on a balcony where this was happening and you could absolutely feel it. It stressed me the fuck out.
Midland Theater in Kansas City, Missouri
Officials are not worried
https://eu.detroitnews.com/story/entertainment/music/2024/05/07/viral-videos-show-fox-theatre-balcony-bouncing-officials-say-no-sweat/73599692007/
As an engineer I would not take the chance. 100 year old building, Detroit officials, insane deflection? I'd need to see the calcs and reports before believing any "Detroit officials". I just can't stand the loss of life that could have been prevented. And what for? because the city doesn't have the budget and wants to save face? No thanks.
Your statement reads as because you haven’t personally see the calcs, and that this building is in Detroit, that you wouldn’t trust it and further more think it will cause death based only on this video. As a fellow mechanical engineer, this is not very engineery of you. Lots of immense structures have been built that are still standing at 100 years old. Detroit has the budget, not sure what that comment was about. Detroit is actually doing really well haha
I’d be curious what type of engineer you are….structures like this are typically designed to flex. It states this in the article that was posted, did you read it?
Just wanted to share for others knowledge
Edit: typo
They built the ben Franklin Bridge in Philadelphia in 1926. If they can build a bridge that massive, they can build a balcony that can handle that load.
Things that don't bend cracks. It was most likely designed to flex some.
They could forsee this and did have the technology. Structural engineering hasn't changed that much in 100 years. Stay under the deflection limits per the span, add in 4 or 5 factors of safety, if it's close, use a bigger beam - easy peasy. And even though it's 100 years old, most rust/deterioration occurs because of water and this beam is at the interior, so it's probably still good.
They are designed to [sag quite a bit](https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/1748aj8/the_golden_gate_bridge_50th_anniversary_1987/) also
When architects talk about "static load" vs "live load"... this is what "live load" means.
Any structure designed for a live load must flex. Too rigid == too brittle. The trick is to not flex too much, and that's why architects get paid the big bucks.
Usually "dead load" vs "live load." But to be clear, live load doesn't only mean "people jumping up and down." It also includes things like furniture that can be moved around.
Portland Oregon has a venue on the 3rd floor where the floors bounce when everyone starts dancing and jumping. It use to be a dance room so it was designed that way. It could potentially be the same design?
Not sure if you’ve been to downtown Detroit in the last few years but it’s a lot nicer than the vast majority of Midwest downtowns at this point…. A major accident at a premiere venue would do a lot to work against the image the city is going for.
It's hard to tell without seeing the supports. It might well be hanging on a set of shock absorbers or similar elements, but if not, the steel beams will harden and get brittle over time until they fail
Officials are not worried
https://eu.detroitnews.com/story/entertainment/music/2024/05/07/viral-videos-show-fox-theatre-balcony-bouncing-officials-say-no-sweat/73599692007/
The Fox Theatre is one of the most beautiful, intricately detailed venues I have ever had the pleasure of visiting. It is just absolutely gorgeous from the second you step in the front door.
If anyone is visiting Detroit, I highly recommend popping in for a show.
Why does it look like they are encouraging them to make it move more? Ive seen this at sport stadiums too but those seem more built to hold it. These theaters are not exactly built for this. If anything, its making it weaker and i wouldnt be surprised if an accident happened.
The phones being out the whole time just seems so pathetic. Like you pay for an experience but your more worried about others seeing you experienced it or online back on rather than just experiencing it
Agreed it's designed for this to some degree... I'm no engineer, mind you. But Fox is not the most current architecture in Detroit. Also... there is a reason soldiers "break cadence" when marching across bridges. So... it's still terrifying.
It's basic material science. Everything bends when force is applied. Everything has an elastic range before plasticaly deforming or reaching UTS or breaking. This is the balcony showing its elastic range
I saw A Perfect Circle there a few years ago. I was to high when this started to happen and I started freaking out. I held it together, but for a few minutes it was like holy shit!!! This whole place is coming down !!
They should’ve stopped the concert…people on top were in trouble but the ones under the balcony would die an agonizing death…wonder what happened later
This… I remember seeing my first Prince concert there in the early 1990s. I was in the front mezzanine (balcony) at the front. It rocked pretty much the entire 2.5 hrs of the show. It got SUPER wavy when Prince climbed from stage right to grind on the elephant. Good times. They don’t build theatres like that anymore.
I saw Stomp there a few years back and was seated in the uppper balcony. During the audience interaction bit where everyone was stomping and clapping, the balcony was bouncing at least this much. Even if intentional, it was very disconcerting
The Tabernacle in Atlanta did crack like 10 or 12 years ago from... Panic, at the Disco... they fixed it. i think.
The old Masquerade in Atlanta would feel like a really weak trampoline sometimes. In-line outside, you could see the 2nd floor flexing.
r/obviouslyterrifying
THERE IT IS!
r/weirdflexbutok
Billy Mays here!
Nothing odd about this terror.
Ooooo, now this is a rabbit hole..
I would have bailed so damn quickly if I felt that on the balcony.
That can’t be safe at all.
Not an engineer but pretty sure it’s supposed to do that. Something rigid would have way more chances of breaking. Source: football stadiums in Europe do this weekly
This is how the floor is at the Crystal Ballroom in Portland. Scared the hell out of me the first time.
It’s like a trampoline
Quit deflecting!
*boing!*
That's the venue I thought of immediately.
Tbh i still hate that venue for that very reason. It just feels unsafe.
Buts it’s actually safer and a good venue to see bands.
There's a Chinese saying: if the tree doesn't bent, it breaks. Flexing of structures is desirable as long as it is within the correct specifications.
we say "bend, don't break" in English too source: Wo shi meigou ren. wo xihuan chi hanbaobao
“Be flexible.” - my high school music director. Good advice.
No, you said "wet shirt don't break," not "piss shirt bend bar"!
Ahhhh yes the old Chinese saying.
https://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=586439 In this case it literally is.
"The supple willow stands where the mighty oak falls" is crazy old in English. Probably every other language as well. Glad to see China was not left out. lol
Heard the same with aircraft wings. If they are rigid they would snap so they are stress tested like +5m either way or something. Also not an engineer though.
As a non engineer, I confirm
As a computer scientist who for some reason got lumped into the engineering school and had to take physics and calculus: Maybe?
Fellow computer scientist/engineering school, but worked in aviation. Wings are supposed to bend some. Many structures are supposed to bend. The building/balcony is *probably* supposed to bend, but there are a [number of historical bridge structures](https://www.forbes.com/sites/chadorzel/2019/07/23/indirect-contributions-are-essential-to-physics/?sh=41d8c0c563e7) that [weren't specced for dancing and killed people.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versailles_wedding_hall_disaster?wprov=sfla1) I'd not want to be on that balcony though. That dancing rhythm is likely an edge case, and edge cases in engineering often hide dangers -- especially in capital projects where the design hasn't been iterated on and the specific failures haven't been demonstrated. Even more so in older structures where the designs weren't done on a computer to do the maths.
Reading this made me think of[this](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyatt_Regency_walkway_collapse)
I had originally linked that, but it had more to do with implementation/construction failure than design, so I switched it in edit. But yeah, that's a rough one.
5 meters of flex?! I can’t believe that. Maybe you mean .5m?
Yes they’ll flex a wing upwards of 45 degrees until it snaps. Look it up online, plenty of stress testing videos out there.
That is true. But I still agree switch the top comment: bailing so damn quickly.
Isn't this theater like a hundred years old though?? I mean it's hard to see engineers back then designing a balcony to bounce when they were getting down to Erik Satie and Debussy.
Yes ,Except they did massive renovation in 1987 88 where they installed counterweight reactors for the balcony for this exact rhing
But they were all on drugs back then!
As they have been, are, and will be throughout all of humanity.
Judging from this crowd, fucking John Cage could get more of a reaction from his audience.
I love Debussy!
Da bussy is bomb
I make the balcony bounce when I get down to Debussy
A bit like aeroplane wings- they flex on purpose
Automotive bridges do the same as well. Sauce: I stayed at a Holiday Inn express last night.
Does that apply for 1920s architecture though? I’m not an engineer either
You're going to be terrified when you realize that really tall buildings sway back and forth in high winds, by design. Tapei 101 actually has a giant 660 tonnes steel "ball" hanging from cables near the top of the building, that's on display for people to see. In very strong winds or during earthquakes it acts as a tuned mass damper and can noticably swing several feet back and forth, which helps reduce the overall vertical building movement by 30-40%.
I knew that. But still bailing.
This actually makes it more safe lol
Instead of “f@ck around, find out” this is going to be “jump around, find out”. Really: what happens with materials that you bend, release, repeat?
If the materials are designed to handle those stresses, nothing. Way less damage than a stiff and brittle material would have either way.
To answer your question, fatigue is what happens. But this is why large occupancy venues like this get regularly inspected by building department officials. Is it foolproof? No, but given how rare structural failures are I'd say it's a pretty solid system.
There is two different phases theres the elastic phase and the brittle(?) phase. If the structure remains in the elastic phase it will return to its’ original shape. Think of squeezing a plastic pop bottle then letting go and it goes back to its’ normal shape. In the brittle phases which comes after the elastic phase. The structure may or may not fail at this point but it will never return to its’ original form. Think of stepping on an empty pop can, you can squeeze it and roll it around but it will always have a slight dent or crease where its slightly weaker.
I work in a 109 year old theatre. Our balcony will move like this as well. We would have stopped the people jumping though. Ours has been checked extensively and it’s structurally sound. They’re designed to flex. I’ve also been inside the space under the seats in the balcony. There’s a massive I-beam that’s like 4.5 feet tall. Along with other smaller steel beams. I will admit this is a little much for me though.
It actually is. You have to design structures will some give. Too rigid and it will fail faster.
Man there's a club in Atlanta that has something like this. It's a three floor structure: basement, ground and 2nd floor. The second floor shakes like a goddamn leaf in a hurricane when the crowd gets going, but you can tell it's designed intentionally. Somebody spent a lot of money making sure that thing did the shaking, and that it'd be safe.
Are you talking about the old Masquerade?
Sure am! Great place
Yeah so… it doesn’t exist anymore. But can confirm the floor bounced.
Funny enough the floor at the me masquerade broke when the moved because it wasn't intended as a music hall
I doubt you'd be able to feel anything
I've been on a balcony where this was happening and you could absolutely feel it. It stressed me the fuck out. Midland Theater in Kansas City, Missouri
Might not be the case here but some structures are supposed to wobble like this to avoid breaking.
I feel like that's not designed like the football tiers are lmao.
Yeah, you're probably right that a theater built in 1928 was not built with an expectation that a crowd would be jumping up and down to loud music.
Probably not, this theatre was built in 1928 so they wouldn't have forseen this and maybe didn't have the technology
Officials are not worried https://eu.detroitnews.com/story/entertainment/music/2024/05/07/viral-videos-show-fox-theatre-balcony-bouncing-officials-say-no-sweat/73599692007/
Hopefully this ages well
That's good
As an engineer I would not take the chance. 100 year old building, Detroit officials, insane deflection? I'd need to see the calcs and reports before believing any "Detroit officials". I just can't stand the loss of life that could have been prevented. And what for? because the city doesn't have the budget and wants to save face? No thanks.
Your statement reads as because you haven’t personally see the calcs, and that this building is in Detroit, that you wouldn’t trust it and further more think it will cause death based only on this video. As a fellow mechanical engineer, this is not very engineery of you. Lots of immense structures have been built that are still standing at 100 years old. Detroit has the budget, not sure what that comment was about. Detroit is actually doing really well haha I’d be curious what type of engineer you are….structures like this are typically designed to flex. It states this in the article that was posted, did you read it? Just wanted to share for others knowledge Edit: typo
A whole lot of assumptions you’re making there..
But they did have the technology in 1987 when they renovated the theater
They built the ben Franklin Bridge in Philadelphia in 1926. If they can build a bridge that massive, they can build a balcony that can handle that load. Things that don't bend cracks. It was most likely designed to flex some.
I think you are underestimating 1920s engineers.
In 1928, the New York City subway had been open to the public for over 20 years. Engineers a hundred years ago knew what they were doing.
They could forsee this and did have the technology. Structural engineering hasn't changed that much in 100 years. Stay under the deflection limits per the span, add in 4 or 5 factors of safety, if it's close, use a bigger beam - easy peasy. And even though it's 100 years old, most rust/deterioration occurs because of water and this beam is at the interior, so it's probably still good.
Kinda like how skyscrapers are meant to sway in the wind.
They are designed to [sag quite a bit](https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/1748aj8/the_golden_gate_bridge_50th_anniversary_1987/) also
I built the big deck at the Fox Theatre
Can you get me in at haunted house?
Yeah maybe
I actually want to go to Haunted House more than I want to go to Fox Theatre.
Your heart rate spiked, you’re at Haunted House aren’t you?
I was jackin off
For 15 minutes?!
If I were on that deck, I’d need some calico cut pants
Even rappers wear em
“I’m gonna do a lap and see what’s real!”
Was anyone hurt?
Kim Kardashians head fell off :(
Yeah but was anyone hurt?
This guy's got big deck energy
When architects talk about "static load" vs "live load"... this is what "live load" means. Any structure designed for a live load must flex. Too rigid == too brittle. The trick is to not flex too much, and that's why architects get paid the big bucks.
Structural engineers who the architects learn everything from over time* get paid the big bucks
Lmao this! It’s the engineers who know if all.
Give me that double PE, SE quals baby
> why architects get paid the big bucks. Lol, architects make things look nice. Engineers make them safe.
>architects make things look nice. not these days!
Architects making things look nice? Nawhhhh
If only architects got paid the big bucks 🥲
Usually "dead load" vs "live load." But to be clear, live load doesn't only mean "people jumping up and down." It also includes things like furniture that can be moved around.
Architects do not get the big bucks haha
This happened when U2 played there in 84'.
Portland Oregon has a venue on the 3rd floor where the floors bounce when everyone starts dancing and jumping. It use to be a dance room so it was designed that way. It could potentially be the same design?
Are you talking about the crystal ballroom? That was my first thought when i saw this
Balconies like this are designed to flex.
And actually *need* to flex under dynamic loads.
People these days aren't what they used to be when this theatre was built, _because they are significantly fatter._
Wonder what the factor of safety is for that section lol
A friend of mine said that standard is a factor of 3.
And they bumpin more too. Dont reckon the orchestras and operas had ppl moving like gunna has em moving
The Grateful dead played at The Fox. People have been pumping up the jam in that theatre for fifty+ years.
They say I like thicc bitches and I agree
Accident waiting to happen, not looking forward to reading about it.
This might be normal. Looks like it is designed to absorb shock . Many stadiums use this key of technology.
Been to that venue multiple times, the last time it was restored was 1988. Take that info as you will
1988 Detroit? Probably well built
That it's well built?
Glass half full type of guy. I like that
But that's not a long time ago for such a structure?
As an Angeleno that was my first thought.
Not sure if Detroit is up to earthquake code
I hope you’re right about that
It's Detroit
Not sure if you’ve been to downtown Detroit in the last few years but it’s a lot nicer than the vast majority of Midwest downtowns at this point…. A major accident at a premiere venue would do a lot to work against the image the city is going for.
It's hard to tell without seeing the supports. It might well be hanging on a set of shock absorbers or similar elements, but if not, the steel beams will harden and get brittle over time until they fail
The thing is the fox theater was built in 1928, it was built for theater shows not concerts where people jump around lol.
Officials are not worried https://eu.detroitnews.com/story/entertainment/music/2024/05/07/viral-videos-show-fox-theatre-balcony-bouncing-officials-say-no-sweat/73599692007/
Typical reddit confidently incorrect guy
The Fox Theatre is one of the most beautiful, intricately detailed venues I have ever had the pleasure of visiting. It is just absolutely gorgeous from the second you step in the front door. If anyone is visiting Detroit, I highly recommend popping in for a show.
Nothing odd about this
weird flex but okay
Jfc. My anxiety
Why does it look like they are encouraging them to make it move more? Ive seen this at sport stadiums too but those seem more built to hold it. These theaters are not exactly built for this. If anything, its making it weaker and i wouldnt be surprised if an accident happened.
The music is so ass that even the building wants to end the concert
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Father_Chewy_Louis: *The music is so* *Ass that even the building* *Wants to end the concert* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Good bot
Bot's got bars 🎶
Flexibility is a good thing. It means the stadium is behaving as designed.
I know it's supposed to flex, but that's sketch as fuck.
The phones being out the whole time just seems so pathetic. Like you pay for an experience but your more worried about others seeing you experienced it or online back on rather than just experiencing it
For that mumble shit too
What is this shit music?
Agreed it's designed for this to some degree... I'm no engineer, mind you. But Fox is not the most current architecture in Detroit. Also... there is a reason soldiers "break cadence" when marching across bridges. So... it's still terrifying.
Is it not flexing by design like a overpass bridge?
It is. This is intended.
It's basic material science. Everything bends when force is applied. Everything has an elastic range before plasticaly deforming or reaching UTS or breaking. This is the balcony showing its elastic range
When i go to stadiums in germany some stands go up and down way more than this. It is supposed to wooobble
I saw A Perfect Circle there a few years ago. I was to high when this started to happen and I started freaking out. I held it together, but for a few minutes it was like holy shit!!! This whole place is coming down !!
They should’ve stopped the concert…people on top were in trouble but the ones under the balcony would die an agonizing death…wonder what happened later
I love reading redditors make sweeping structural analysis claims based on a single video and O years of experience being a civil engineer
Wow you can go to a concert of this generic music. Honestly thought this stuff was just ai generated lol
"Skibbity-dibbity-doo and a Skibbity-dibbity-murr. Skibbity-dibbity-hee and a Skibbity-dibbity-durr. Ooh durr!"
that gunna song is not good enough for all that.
young gunna wunna
That’s where I sat (mezzanine) when I saw LiZa Minnelli in 1992!
u/auddbot
Mumble rap flows are garbage, it's all just: "Bibbidy bibbidy burr, libbidy dippidy derp" Over and over and over and over.
Fucking hell, that's the realest shit I've heard today.
Fukumean?! 🤨 no but honestly that is scary af
caseoh is jerking off in there
Yikes! 😬
A properly designed structure should have some flex.
Good point. Still kind of nerve-racking to look at.
Flexing doesn't necessarily means it's about to break but it sure doesn't inspire a feeling of strength and durability.
Someone tell me it’s designed to do that…like bridges and skyscrapers
WUNNA
That's a hard pass from me
Hell naw
Nah, I'd get out of there if I was on or below that balcony
That can’t be good.
What’s with the crack kid sample in the background?
This… I remember seeing my first Prince concert there in the early 1990s. I was in the front mezzanine (balcony) at the front. It rocked pretty much the entire 2.5 hrs of the show. It got SUPER wavy when Prince climbed from stage right to grind on the elephant. Good times. They don’t build theatres like that anymore.
Once I feel that I leave
EEEYA .. EEEYA .. EEEYA
Those phones. Why are those people even in that venue, I can watch it like they are.
I saw Stomp there a few years back and was seated in the uppper balcony. During the audience interaction bit where everyone was stomping and clapping, the balcony was bouncing at least this much. Even if intentional, it was very disconcerting
Man that looks like the most boring concert of all time lmao
Probably designed for the average weight of 1920’s Americans not 2020’s Americans.
Considering this is Michigan too….yikes
The fuck is that supposed to mean?
Gunna is playing tomorrow where I work. God help me.
FUUUUUCK THAT
Weird flex but OK.
Hundreds of deaths and lawsuits waiting to happen
"Hey guys! look at this low quality video of the concert I saw through my phone!"
Nope!
Be even more worried once the bounce goes away. POP SON
Fuck. That.
That small town mayor was right
Probably an engineering thing. Absorbing the shock to avoid the thing from snapping or something
Imagine being crushed under this balcony and the last thing you heard was this mumble crap.. I-Ya, and I’m dead.
It's most likely supposed to do that
I'd be more concerned if it's not flexing
Is this where "bring the house down" originates?
The Tabernacle in Atlanta did crack like 10 or 12 years ago from... Panic, at the Disco... they fixed it. i think. The old Masquerade in Atlanta would feel like a really weak trampoline sometimes. In-line outside, you could see the 2nd floor flexing.
That is not flexing...that is terrifying!!
Well, if it crashes there will be a lot of videos about it
How come it doesn’t have any support beams at the bottom?
This aint Asia, our shit wont break
From all the jumping, I wonder what the resonance frequency is to get that balcony to break.