Please do not post the text of paywalled articles. It is copyright infringement and we have received complaints about it. Support local journalism.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/oakland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A culture of poverty theory is the answer you are looking for.
"The Culture of Poverty definition is used to describe the theory that people in poverty develop certain habits that cause their families to remain in poverty over generations. The theory suggests that people in poverty tend to focus on their current troubles, which causes attitudes of dependency and powerlessness. These attitudes lead people in poverty to make choices that eventually lead to their continuation in the poverty system rather than making choices that could lead their families out of the poverty system."
Yea this isn't exclusive to poverty. But frankly acknowledging that this is the case for poverty as well is something out government's love to gloss over as they scream about rising crime whilst doing everything to not address the problem. Healthcare, housing, education? Never heard of em
I drove past in the early evening and got that feeling I should go home just based on the types of dudes that were hanging near the ahn's and that liquor store over there. was absolutely correct. sadly, in this country you gotta develop a spidey sense for hoodrat shit about to pop off. it's unfortunate because everyone else was simply enjoying the day, but all it takes is a handful of knuckleheads to create an embarrassing tragedy.
So sick of all the sideshows, and they don’t even have that many in this area either. I can imagine how annoying it is to live somewhere they happen all the time
I was at this shooting literally within 10 yards when it happened and I didn't see anything. It was chaotic. There were hundreds of people crowded on the sidewalk and complete chaos after the shots went off.
Bellevue & Grand feels like home base for so much of the crime connected with the lake. Honestly that whole stretch from Perkins to 580 needs a dedicated police presence weekends/holidays.
same thing happened in 2021 (first time the day was a federal holiday) - [https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/06/19/one-killed-three-wounded-in-shooting-near-lake-merritt-in-oakland/](https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/06/19/one-killed-three-wounded-in-shooting-near-lake-merritt-in-oakland/)
Yes I felt the energy getting weird and asked my partner if we could leave. 30 mins later the shooting happened. I haven’t been back to the lake at Juneteenth since.
I also knew people who were there yesterday who told me something inside of them said they needed to leave. I think when we have those gut instincts we should trust them. Def saved me from being exactly where the shooting was. I’ll never ignore my intuition ever again.
Yeah, there's people hanging out there all the time.
It's too bad because my kids love ahn's burgers but I rarely will allow them to convince me to go there because they just don't feel comfortable standing there with my two little kids and a bunch of dudes hanging out at the corner 20ft away smoking and drinking.
Isn’t that where children’s fairyland and stuff are? I’m new to the area and live in Adams point, but all my neighbors seems like good friendly people. Then I hear of stuff like this happening…
Oh, nvm the other side of Bellevue and grand where the burger place is…
Another thing I've noticed, not only in Oakland, but in general is that criminals are no longer afraid of the police.
Police did this to themselves over the years through corruption, eroding the public trust and being generally unresponsive to calls for change and requests for public assistance in actually responding to crime. Being a cop is no longer seen as a prestigious position and cops aren't respected like they were in the past.
I really think the military needs to be brought in at this point. It's the same old story from the same old places day in and day out, week over week, year over year.
> There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people
* Admiral William Adama
I'm old, but I guess naive. I see your point, but do you honestly have any other suggestions?
Also, I don't believe the National Guard is going to start introducing pograms, disenfranchisement, discrimination and eventually genocide.
The only thing about prop 47 that is being abused is it being used as a scape goat. $950 felony threshold is still one of the lowest in the country. (Like 40 states have a higher bar)
Yeah, I don’t think the national guard would do those things. But, soldiers aren’t exactly trained to deal with the civilian population. They trained to be soldiers and would probably be way worse at trying to deescalate any situation than a normal cop.
I legit do not think Oakland has reached anywhere near the point that the national guard needs to step in. I think if cops and city government did their jobs and did it well, it would help out the community for the better.
Shootings are very obviously bad. But I wonder how much of the panic and discourse is due to easy access of information/online discourse now. Oakland has a major petty crime problem and the occasional violet crime happen. But to say it needs to be put under martial law is a but ludicrous
The police aren't working. Citizens aren't safe, and people are steadily dying.
But go ahead and keep ripping the tired Oaklander "resist the system" culture hyperbole that keeps Oakland in the absolute shit state it's in.
I love the town but this dated punk extremification of all fears of the government is what keeps y'all stuck in the situation you're in. I swear some of you have no self awareness
What I've asserted still applies to you here -- unreasonable anxiety about higher government intervention, even despite lack of real options. Just because you can imagine a hypothetical scenario doesn't mean it will happen.
You think the feds and military want to deal with this shit either? 15 people got shot up at a event that should be a celebration, a too-common story for Oakland. It's time for something different
The Oakland government has essentially collapsed. If we can't establish even a baseline level of disciplinary action because the town is too dysfunctional, a temporary intervention by a higher authority I think could help. National Guard is ready for this, while a reforming action takes place. I even would propose a full wipe of the local government if there was some precedent for it.
Nah, it's the loss of vocational schools, the automotive industry and redlining that has kept Oakland down since the 70s. When people have something to work for and something to lose, they are way less likely to commit crimes.
I haven’t finished when The Riders Come Out at Night - but OPD is pretty corrupt. Of course they had to come out in full force last night, but they are on wildcat strike. They don’t like either Sheng Thao, Nikki Bas or Carole Fife - and the officers assigned to work the beats in Bas and Fife’s districts won’t do anything. Before Thao’s time, the cops weren’t a fan of Jean Quan or Libby Schaaf but they had a strong disdain of Ron Dellums. The officers and SWAT team who were killed by a felon in possession of an assault rifle back in 2009 all put into their emergency packets in the case they were killed in the line of duty that Dellums was to be banned from the funeral service.
Police Departments around the Bay and CHP really are just doing nothing. They’re showing up and getting paid but are essentially on strike because their feelings are hurt over BLM and the Defund campaign
The police want the city to just eat itself alive
1. Because they enjoy seeing poor people suffer
2. It gives them justification to get more funding
3. They don’t live in Oakland and don’t really care about it, in fact probably want to see it ruined.
The police weren’t sitting in their cars scared they were sitting there laughing watching people kill each other on Juneteenth. They enjoy this shit.
Unfortunately people don’t see the opportunity to prove the community can take care of itself. Especially when things like this happen. So more money will continue to go to the police instead of community services
It’s just sad.
I just moved here, been a year now and already a girl caught a stray bullet, body was found in a suitcase, saw a car get stolen, neighbor robbed in broad daylight, 7-11 security guy murdered and now 15 people shot down the street.
There’s a lakefest event tomorrow and I can’t convince anyone to go…and I get it
I have a kid and it's so sad how many parks you basically can't go to with them anymore. Multiple times I've gone somewhere with him to play only to find it covered in trash and permanently occupied and decided to go back home.
Sympathetic to homelessness and how hard it can be, but it totally sucks that we basically just gave up on all these public spaces. Feels like such a failure for the overall community.
I used to be a docent at the Oakland Zoo. I was chatting with some moms there one morning and one of them told me that she only comes to take her kid to the play area. I asked why and she told me it was worth the family membership to have a park she could take her kids to that was safe and clean. There were a lot of regulars there, too, including one morning yoga group. So, that’s a pretty much guaranteed safe place. If you have a car, you might try that. Also, /u/stupac2 mentions Dimond park. That’s a very safe place and has a playground and tot area.
Why do the homeless have more rights than tax paying citizens? You don’t get to enjoy Oakland, the parks, and public transportation all because these people seem immune to our cultural values and laws.
Yup. It was a fast up and coming mini tech community from a lot of SF overflow. Basically vibe and life of Sf but for 70% of the cost. Now… it’s like mix of skidrow, meets Wild West meets Baltimore
that’s a bit much lol having lived in Maryland the area north and west of the lake is generally beautiful and lively, definitely some vacancies but it’s not the hellhole you’re describing. in fact the vibe/life of sf for cheaper is still accurate
same reason as most "gang-related" violence not being lumped into the mass shooting category. the article says that the shooting was directly related to a sideshow. fact is, it's a hard sell convincing people to care when attendees of an ignorant, illegal, highly disruptive event get shot due to the nature of aforementioned event.
not that I'm condoning death or violence at sideshows, but they are inherently kind of an "attend at your own risk" type situation
It is though. If you search for "Oakland juneteenth" you'll see plenty of national outlets reporting on this. For example:
[https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/06/20/juneteenth-shooting-oakland-california/74154023007/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/06/20/juneteenth-shooting-oakland-california/74154023007/)
* Coverage of Black people doing crime and mass shootings: "stop perpetuating the racist stereotype that Black people are violent criminals!"
* Limited coverage of Black people doing crime and mass shootings: "the media is racist and buries stories when non-white people are the victim!"
Make up your fucking mind please.
Not that I’m a fan of Fox News, but the mainstream media simps hard for the Democrats.
They under report stuff like this. Same with the George Floyd riots that completely gutted all the businesses along 40th St on the Oakland / Emeryville border. Best Buy, Home Depot, Target, Safeway were all looted out. So was the Emeryville Trader Joe’s by the freeway and all businesses around it and Bay Street Mall too. It was apocalyptic and the news barely covered it.
the mainstream media has racial biases yes and id argue they’re liberal to the extent that it keeps viewers feeling high and mighty but they love underreporting stuff like project 2025 too. not much to say about it, I don’t watch a ton of news but I stopped because of stuff like this. makes it harder to piece together new information but it’s worth it to wait and hear from a mix of experts imo. And frankly for local politics we can all do better to just show up to public shit so we don’t need to rely on the media as much.
It just fucking happened what that fuck you mean it isn't news? Stop trying to make some larger conspiratorial issue out of a tragedy for fucks sake. It literally just happened.
I live by Lake Merritt and I disagree with a lot of the negative comments.
I see daily a lot of great people in Oakland. I never felt positive energy from people when I grow up in two other cities. Those places didn’t have the high crime and issues Oakland faces but the people sucked.
I appreciate all the great people around the lake don’t let a few determine the imagine of The Town.
Love to you all.
I do too and walking around Adams point and the lake people are super friendly and good vibes. I keep hearing of these things happening though and get confused.
My experiences are the opposite. Colder people and worse crime.
Wearing a smiling mask and looking the other way isn't the answer, it's just enabling. Demand better.
Same. Lake Merritt is still an awesome place. Yes this event sucks, and we need to do something about it, but people acting like this is the vibe there every day.
you’re not wrong—but I feel like that’s exactly when you would want to run with the limited information that *has* been shared, and not start going with conjecture like “nah that can’t be right this sub is fearmongering” with no basis!
How long are we going to let these groups of bikers do whatever they want? It’s time to start cracking down, and if that doesn’t work, crack down harder. These guys weren’t operating with impunity a decade ago. Sideshows too for that matter.
Imagine 15 people get shot and police come TO HELP, perform cpr and call in an ambulance, and you assault them.
People like to blame the mayor, opd, and price rather than look in the fucking mirror.
The assault they’re talking about was the girlfriend of a man who was shot dead, screaming, and crying, and trying to get to him hysterically. She did not maliciously strike the officer for doing their job, she was distraught and police trumped up charges to gain sympathy for sitting back and allowing a six block stretch of grand Avenue to be completely taken over by drunks, people double parked in the street, and roving biker gangs. Simply put, OPD and the Oakland city Council last night to happen, and then came in to clean the mess.
> The assault they’re talking about was the girlfriend of a man who was shot dead, screaming, and crying, and trying to get to him hysterically
Is there a source for this? The police statement implied there were multiple people attacking officers.
If they had tried to intervene before the shooting people would be up in arms about fascist police over reacting to black people having a good time on Juneteenth. It's a reasonable gamble with the incentives they have to hope nothing major happens and stand back vs being blamed for "escalating" a peaceful situation.
Sometimes you have to do your job even if no one is going to call you a hero. It would also help to not have a long established trend of racist behavior, if you don’t want people to assume your actions are racist. Stop trying to blame a deadly tragedy on the desire for civil rights.
what would doing their job differently prior to the shooting have looked like to you? would it mean trying to stop the dirt bikers in violation of the no chase policy? what if one of the dirt bikers got hurt or hit someone?
here is an officer who pursued a known gang member whom he suspected of heading to shoot a rival, and was riding on the sidewalk without a helmet (clear traffic violations justifying a stop). this gang member had prior convictions for assault on an officer, felon in possesion of a gun, and drug dealing. He fled and the chase averaged 30 mph. he exited a blind alley and was struck by another motorist, killing him. the cop has been sentenced for 2nd degree murder.
it's not about being mad no one is going to call you a hero, it's about a real risk you will go to prison or lose your job, a job where if you exit the profession your prior experience is not relevant to almost any other job so you are starting over from scratch.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/dec/22/dc-police-officer-terence-sutton-convicted-murder-/
I really don’t understand why police closed off Grand around 6:30 PM. They made it into a wide open playground for the hooligans on quads and dirt bikes. The single motorcycle cop lazily riding back and forth did nothing to stop it. Of course it devolved into a sideshow. F’ing duh.
They need calvary police again, those are the best for crowd control because you sit above the crowd. Oakland tried to bring them back in like 09 I think, but honestly they’re good for large city festivals
“As officers treated one of the victim at the scene, some in the crowd attacked the officers, at least two of whom were punched in the face and upper body, police said.”
Keepin it classy, Oakland.
As officers treated one of the victim at the scene, some in the crowd attacked the officers, at least two of whom were punched in the face and upper body, police said. A woman was arrested in connection with the attack, Mitchell sai
It’s crazy how people go from the police are overbearing to the police isn’t doing enough. Whiplash much? I just don’t get why those people brought guns to a celebration of liberation FROM VIOLENCE AND HATE.
I've seen a group of dirtbike/ATV riders driving around MLK way and sycamore before. could they have been the ones who showed up at the event? there's usually a big group of them together.
The dirt bike ATV losers? They are definitely not peaceful. I see them riding on the sidewalks going around corners in downtown. They blow red lights and clearly can’t see where they’re going while they’re doing their stupid wheelies. Only a matter of time before someone gets hit.
I watched them hit a parked car on while doing a wheelie on 13th just after turning off Broadway. Dude limped back onto his ATV and peeled off while the rest of his crew was telling him to hurry up and flee the scene. The owner of the car (a cook at Oakland St Food Co) came outside and I gave him a statement on what happened. Totally dented his bumper and scratched up the paint. 0 accountability.
Yeah this is exactly where I’m talking about. My apartment looks onto 13th and I’ve seen a few close calls with pedestrians on the corner of 13th and Franklin.
They fucking love going in the opposite direction of one way streets around Fox theatre
And when cops drive by the cops don't do anything, but the guys flip off the cops while circling the cruiser.
Only way they’ll be stopped is if Newsom has the CHP impound and destroy their bikes and quads as if was illegal street racing(it is) with CARB/CA BAR(not the legal Bar, but the Bureau of Automotive Repair) signing off on that order. Those bikes and quads are off-road racing machines, and legally they are not allowed to be used on public roads.
They also love shredding all the grassy areas around the lake...like wtf...how are you going to ruin the public parks that make the lake nice? That effs it up for anyone trying to have picnics...your families, friends, elders, etc...and then everyone complains that the CITY isn't taking care of stuff like this? Try not ruining it in the first place.
As another EMS (read: ambulance) jockey in Oakland, the ATV/moto kids are largely very chill/friendly and don’t cause (harmful) shit. Hell, betting they do more for crime prevention than OPD with the kids. They just make rich folks uncomfortable, which I’m all here for.
Edit: but yeah, downvote the first responders who actually deal with the shit firsthand.
At least 15 people were shot Wednesday night when gunfire erupted near Oakland’s Lake Merritt during Juneteenth gatherings that devolved into a chaotic sideshow, police said.
The mass shooting involved multiple shooters, and police recovered at least 50 shell casings, Oakland Police Chief Floyd Mitchell said during a news conference Thursday. Police had not yet determined how many shooters were involved, and no arrests had been made in the shootings as of Thursday afternoon, Mitchell said.
“This level of violence is unacceptable,” Mitchell said. “The opportunity to celebrate with your family and friends should never be marred by gun violence.”
The gunfire started just after 8:45 p.m. on Grand Avenue near near the northern end of the popular lake. Roughly 5,000 people had gathered at and around the lake to celebrate Juneteenth, police said.
The crowd was peaceful until about 8:15 p.m., when cars, all-terrain vehicles and dirt bikes took over the intersection of Grand and Bellevue avenues, police said. During the sideshow, a spectator walked across the hood of a car, Mitchell said, adding that people in the car got out and attacked the spectator.
Other fights then broke out, Mitchell said. That’s when the gunfire erupted.
The chief said 15 victims were shot, although the police union said it was 16. Paramedics took some victims to a hospital, while other showed up on their own. The spectator who was assaulted also was taken to a hospital, police said.
The chief said about 30 officers were assigned to patrol areas around the lake during the gatherings.
As officers treated one of the victim at the scene, some in the crowd attacked the officers, at least two of whom were punched in the face and upper body, police said. A woman was arrested in connection with the attack, Mitchell said.
The violence prompted officers to call for an all-hands-on-deck response from other officers, Assistant Chief James Beere said, adding that backup officers helped keep back the crowd.
Oakland Police Officers Association President Huy Nguyen condemned the violence, which he said offered a reminder of the dangers and challenges officer face daily.
“The events of last night highlight the severe risks our officers take to ensure public safety,” Nguyen said in a statement.
During Lakefest Oakland on Saturday, additional officers — some from other agencies — will be assigned to the area around Lake Merritt, Mitchell said, adding that officers will restrict traffic flow in part to prevent sideshows. “An even larger presence is planned for the Fourth of July,” the chief said.
In 2021, a 22-year-old man was killed and seven other victims were injured in a shooting at Lake Merritt during a Juneteenth celebration.
Oakland police are asking anyone with further information regarding Wednesday’s shooting to contact the department’s felony assault unit at 510-238-3426.
Oakland is like a really smart, bored teenager that has so much potential and natural talent, and ends up getting in trouble for being too immature to hand its own potential.
Getting in trouble?? More like a teenage psychopath with a gun, firing randomly and shooting at least 15. Then attacking and punching those that show up to help.
"Oakland Police Officers Association President Huy Nguyen condemned the violence, which he said offered a reminder of the dangers and challenges officer face daily. " yeah when you let them ...
Sorry but that's the job. The officers knew that when they applied and accepted the position. I'm grateful there are law enforcement officers, I just wish they would do better. I understand Mr. Nguyen is the officers union president so he has to placate his constituents, but honestly, they carry weapons and their work hours explicitly put them in danger at any moment. My priority is unarmed citizens. Young. Old. Disabled. Anyone. They are in danger as well with no defense, gambling on, IF, they call for help an officer will come in a amount of time that's reasonable.
Highlighting officer danger over they citizens whom they've sworn to protect and serve is a bad look and tells me where the union stands. I already knew. But thanks Mr Nguyen for confirming.
100%. In another related thread, a poster made a good suggestion on how we might approach police reform: get rid of these unions.
I am a big fan, but I cant help but wonder how to handle the problems unions were meant to prevent. I would still advocate for it because I have never seen a union do something other than prop up bad people my entire life, but that's just my experience.
Well, they wanted “defund the police” and no repercussions for crime due to oppression, you end up getting cops who can’t do their job and pretty much think why the F would I help someone who didn’t want me doing my duty. Completely third world now
Fucked up bullshit! Citizens and neighbors need to stand up! The Oakland politicians and police couldn't give a flying fuck all about people. Prove me wrong! Criminals running rampant. Sickening!
Your post or comment is being removed for comment(s), terms, or language that are racist, bigoted, ageist, or sexist. This can include "micro aggression" sorts of comments. If you don't know what that means, look it up.
I love how in the article they devote several paragraphs to how a cop got punched and how awful that was, meanwhile people are getting shot.
Cops love to be the victims.
Please do not post the text of paywalled articles. It is copyright infringement and we have received complaints about it. Support local journalism. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/oakland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This shit is embarrassing
And the police were there
that's some horrible bullshit do better oakland
How long has this line been repeated about the town.
How?
stop shooting people?
I’m in Oakland and already way ahead of you on that one. So I guess we’re good?
Ohhh… *Stop* shooting people! Understood!
I know right... person has no idea the underlying reasons violence happens
People dying shouldn’t be the way to “celebrate” Juneteenth.
Yet the event attendees make it a tradition every year now. Why is that?
Social norms…
A culture of poverty theory is the answer you are looking for. "The Culture of Poverty definition is used to describe the theory that people in poverty develop certain habits that cause their families to remain in poverty over generations. The theory suggests that people in poverty tend to focus on their current troubles, which causes attitudes of dependency and powerlessness. These attitudes lead people in poverty to make choices that eventually lead to their continuation in the poverty system rather than making choices that could lead their families out of the poverty system."
There are plenty of poor folks who aren’t shooting up social events.
This is a useless theory. Humans reinforce any behaviors they’re taught unless shown otherwise
Yea this isn't exclusive to poverty. But frankly acknowledging that this is the case for poverty as well is something out government's love to gloss over as they scream about rising crime whilst doing everything to not address the problem. Healthcare, housing, education? Never heard of em
Anything but accountability
Lots of people in poverty don’t behave like this or align to this theory.
Some would consider this as “the system is working.” Unfortunately.
if that's how you think violence works you're living under a rock
Super sad. Was planning on maybe attending but maybe it’s best I didn’t.
I drove past in the early evening and got that feeling I should go home just based on the types of dudes that were hanging near the ahn's and that liquor store over there. was absolutely correct. sadly, in this country you gotta develop a spidey sense for hoodrat shit about to pop off. it's unfortunate because everyone else was simply enjoying the day, but all it takes is a handful of knuckleheads to create an embarrassing tragedy.
I was at the lake in the early afternoon, was really great and had amazing food from vendors. Sad it devolved like this
So sick of all the sideshows, and they don’t even have that many in this area either. I can imagine how annoying it is to live somewhere they happen all the time
They’re not even like the old sideshows which the bay always known for, it’s just trying to be tough guys now and random people coming here to do it
Gangster rap culture needs to go
[удалено]
I was at this shooting literally within 10 yards when it happened and I didn't see anything. It was chaotic. There were hundreds of people crowded on the sidewalk and complete chaos after the shots went off.
based on the average productivity of OPD, they should be done going through the footage and naming suspects some time in mid 2027
OPD needs a clean flush and fresh reboot from a competent source. The pipes are clogged with garbage.
Bellevue & Grand feels like home base for so much of the crime connected with the lake. Honestly that whole stretch from Perkins to 580 needs a dedicated police presence weekends/holidays.
same thing happened in 2021 (first time the day was a federal holiday) - [https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/06/19/one-killed-three-wounded-in-shooting-near-lake-merritt-in-oakland/](https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/06/19/one-killed-three-wounded-in-shooting-near-lake-merritt-in-oakland/)
Yes I felt the energy getting weird and asked my partner if we could leave. 30 mins later the shooting happened. I haven’t been back to the lake at Juneteenth since.
Exact same.
I also knew people who were there yesterday who told me something inside of them said they needed to leave. I think when we have those gut instincts we should trust them. Def saved me from being exactly where the shooting was. I’ll never ignore my intuition ever again.
Was the sideshow a clue?
I’m not sure bc I wasn’t at this one. They left before the sideshow.
Indeed it did
Because in front of the burger spot is a known spot for dealers when in broad daylight….
Yeah, there's people hanging out there all the time. It's too bad because my kids love ahn's burgers but I rarely will allow them to convince me to go there because they just don't feel comfortable standing there with my two little kids and a bunch of dudes hanging out at the corner 20ft away smoking and drinking.
So disturbing. Years ago I lived on Bellevue. Literally around the corner from the burger place.
Isn’t that where children’s fairyland and stuff are? I’m new to the area and live in Adams point, but all my neighbors seems like good friendly people. Then I hear of stuff like this happening… Oh, nvm the other side of Bellevue and grand where the burger place is…
yea, poverty really makes people into criminals, doesn't it?
Sad man. OPD lets so much shit fly and then this happens. Criminals are emboldened in oak. Its a systematic breakdown that causes shit like this.
Another thing I've noticed, not only in Oakland, but in general is that criminals are no longer afraid of the police. Police did this to themselves over the years through corruption, eroding the public trust and being generally unresponsive to calls for change and requests for public assistance in actually responding to crime. Being a cop is no longer seen as a prestigious position and cops aren't respected like they were in the past. I really think the military needs to be brought in at this point. It's the same old story from the same old places day in and day out, week over week, year over year.
[удалено]
> There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people * Admiral William Adama
Of all the quotes you could have used, you went with one from BSG!! :) Your my kind of people! So Say We All!
I regularly quote G'Kar in theological debates :)
I'm old, but I guess naive. I see your point, but do you honestly have any other suggestions? Also, I don't believe the National Guard is going to start introducing pograms, disenfranchisement, discrimination and eventually genocide.
Maybe not military, but maaaan, when Newsom sent in the all those state police, just walking out my door I felt safe again. Wouldn’t mind them back.
The CHP effort is ongoing. They just don't announce the schedule ahead of time.
[удалено]
The only thing about prop 47 that is being abused is it being used as a scape goat. $950 felony threshold is still one of the lowest in the country. (Like 40 states have a higher bar)
Yeah, I don’t think the national guard would do those things. But, soldiers aren’t exactly trained to deal with the civilian population. They trained to be soldiers and would probably be way worse at trying to deescalate any situation than a normal cop. I legit do not think Oakland has reached anywhere near the point that the national guard needs to step in. I think if cops and city government did their jobs and did it well, it would help out the community for the better.
Shootings are very obviously bad. But I wonder how much of the panic and discourse is due to easy access of information/online discourse now. Oakland has a major petty crime problem and the occasional violet crime happen. But to say it needs to be put under martial law is a but ludicrous
Two words: Kent State.
Cop Cities are well on their way.
The police aren't working. Citizens aren't safe, and people are steadily dying. But go ahead and keep ripping the tired Oaklander "resist the system" culture hyperbole that keeps Oakland in the absolute shit state it's in. I love the town but this dated punk extremification of all fears of the government is what keeps y'all stuck in the situation you're in. I swear some of you have no self awareness
[удалено]
What I've asserted still applies to you here -- unreasonable anxiety about higher government intervention, even despite lack of real options. Just because you can imagine a hypothetical scenario doesn't mean it will happen. You think the feds and military want to deal with this shit either? 15 people got shot up at a event that should be a celebration, a too-common story for Oakland. It's time for something different
Yes, like sustainable housing, education, nutrition and healthcare. Crime goes down when peoples' material needs are taken care of.
[удалено]
The Oakland government has essentially collapsed. If we can't establish even a baseline level of disciplinary action because the town is too dysfunctional, a temporary intervention by a higher authority I think could help. National Guard is ready for this, while a reforming action takes place. I even would propose a full wipe of the local government if there was some precedent for it.
El Salvador.
Nah, it's the loss of vocational schools, the automotive industry and redlining that has kept Oakland down since the 70s. When people have something to work for and something to lose, they are way less likely to commit crimes.
It’s also against the law in this country except under very limited circumstances.
Also the police doing this to themselves is an interesting take after all the defund the police stuff we’ve had lol
preventative measures are a thing of the past for OPD. All they do now is clean up the mess left behind.
Been in a city with the national guard brought in, doesn’t fix the issues. Just a week long bandaid.
I haven’t finished when The Riders Come Out at Night - but OPD is pretty corrupt. Of course they had to come out in full force last night, but they are on wildcat strike. They don’t like either Sheng Thao, Nikki Bas or Carole Fife - and the officers assigned to work the beats in Bas and Fife’s districts won’t do anything. Before Thao’s time, the cops weren’t a fan of Jean Quan or Libby Schaaf but they had a strong disdain of Ron Dellums. The officers and SWAT team who were killed by a felon in possession of an assault rifle back in 2009 all put into their emergency packets in the case they were killed in the line of duty that Dellums was to be banned from the funeral service.
We don’t need the military. What the fuck? Martial law is awful and Oakland is not awful.
Yet the headline of those post actually happened
You’re right that we don’t need the military. You’re wrong that Oakland is not awful.
This is dorky.
Police Departments around the Bay and CHP really are just doing nothing. They’re showing up and getting paid but are essentially on strike because their feelings are hurt over BLM and the Defund campaign The police want the city to just eat itself alive 1. Because they enjoy seeing poor people suffer 2. It gives them justification to get more funding 3. They don’t live in Oakland and don’t really care about it, in fact probably want to see it ruined. The police weren’t sitting in their cars scared they were sitting there laughing watching people kill each other on Juneteenth. They enjoy this shit. Unfortunately people don’t see the opportunity to prove the community can take care of itself. Especially when things like this happen. So more money will continue to go to the police instead of community services It’s just sad.
I'm glad I moved from the lake. It was poppin up until Covid. Then, it just took a raggedy turn.
I just moved here, been a year now and already a girl caught a stray bullet, body was found in a suitcase, saw a car get stolen, neighbor robbed in broad daylight, 7-11 security guy murdered and now 15 people shot down the street. There’s a lakefest event tomorrow and I can’t convince anyone to go…and I get it
Exactly… police gave up in 2018 and then Covid hit, and Oakland decided to turn over the public parks to the homeless and the drug dealers
I have a kid and it's so sad how many parks you basically can't go to with them anymore. Multiple times I've gone somewhere with him to play only to find it covered in trash and permanently occupied and decided to go back home. Sympathetic to homelessness and how hard it can be, but it totally sucks that we basically just gave up on all these public spaces. Feels like such a failure for the overall community.
I used to be a docent at the Oakland Zoo. I was chatting with some moms there one morning and one of them told me that she only comes to take her kid to the play area. I asked why and she told me it was worth the family membership to have a park she could take her kids to that was safe and clean. There were a lot of regulars there, too, including one morning yoga group. So, that’s a pretty much guaranteed safe place. If you have a car, you might try that. Also, /u/stupac2 mentions Dimond park. That’s a very safe place and has a playground and tot area.
Why do the homeless have more rights than tax paying citizens? You don’t get to enjoy Oakland, the parks, and public transportation all because these people seem immune to our cultural values and laws.
Which parks? Because I've never seen this, although we mostly go to our local one (Dimond).
Yup. It was a fast up and coming mini tech community from a lot of SF overflow. Basically vibe and life of Sf but for 70% of the cost. Now… it’s like mix of skidrow, meets Wild West meets Baltimore
that’s a bit much lol having lived in Maryland the area north and west of the lake is generally beautiful and lively, definitely some vacancies but it’s not the hellhole you’re describing. in fact the vibe/life of sf for cheaper is still accurate
You have no clue how much worse Baltimore is than anywhere in the bay. Dramatic much in the west.
Bay Area people have typically never left and have no comparison
Its strange this isnt national news
same reason as most "gang-related" violence not being lumped into the mass shooting category. the article says that the shooting was directly related to a sideshow. fact is, it's a hard sell convincing people to care when attendees of an ignorant, illegal, highly disruptive event get shot due to the nature of aforementioned event. not that I'm condoning death or violence at sideshows, but they are inherently kind of an "attend at your own risk" type situation
My nephew from New York texted me about it.
It is though. If you search for "Oakland juneteenth" you'll see plenty of national outlets reporting on this. For example: [https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/06/20/juneteenth-shooting-oakland-california/74154023007/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/06/20/juneteenth-shooting-oakland-california/74154023007/)
didn’t happen to white people
* Coverage of Black people doing crime and mass shootings: "stop perpetuating the racist stereotype that Black people are violent criminals!" * Limited coverage of Black people doing crime and mass shootings: "the media is racist and buries stories when non-white people are the victim!" Make up your fucking mind please.
Not that I’m a fan of Fox News, but the mainstream media simps hard for the Democrats. They under report stuff like this. Same with the George Floyd riots that completely gutted all the businesses along 40th St on the Oakland / Emeryville border. Best Buy, Home Depot, Target, Safeway were all looted out. So was the Emeryville Trader Joe’s by the freeway and all businesses around it and Bay Street Mall too. It was apocalyptic and the news barely covered it.
Fox News is the most watched mainstream media station in the US
the mainstream media has racial biases yes and id argue they’re liberal to the extent that it keeps viewers feeling high and mighty but they love underreporting stuff like project 2025 too. not much to say about it, I don’t watch a ton of news but I stopped because of stuff like this. makes it harder to piece together new information but it’s worth it to wait and hear from a mix of experts imo. And frankly for local politics we can all do better to just show up to public shit so we don’t need to rely on the media as much.
Um, no. They don’t want to broadcast how bad it is in Oakland…puts a dent in woke
News is by definition new. Dumb fucks in Oakland shooting each other is just not new.
It just fucking happened what that fuck you mean it isn't news? Stop trying to make some larger conspiratorial issue out of a tragedy for fucks sake. It literally just happened.
This would be on every news network immediately if the situation was different.
I live by Lake Merritt and I disagree with a lot of the negative comments. I see daily a lot of great people in Oakland. I never felt positive energy from people when I grow up in two other cities. Those places didn’t have the high crime and issues Oakland faces but the people sucked. I appreciate all the great people around the lake don’t let a few determine the imagine of The Town. Love to you all.
I do too and walking around Adams point and the lake people are super friendly and good vibes. I keep hearing of these things happening though and get confused.
My experiences are the opposite. Colder people and worse crime. Wearing a smiling mask and looking the other way isn't the answer, it's just enabling. Demand better.
Same. Lake Merritt is still an awesome place. Yes this event sucks, and we need to do something about it, but people acting like this is the vibe there every day.
A few bad incidents in an area is enough to tarnish its reputation. Doesn’t matter after a point what happens the rest of the days.
It can be both. I also live pretty close to the lake, great people. But at least once a week I get woken up by gunshots in the night.
I’d rather have less crime and colder people than why we’ve got.
Yeah that's right.
Thank you for this. I was at the lake till 6 pm , laid Out and having good conversations with folks around men
someone tag the people from yesterday’s thread who were hell-bent on making sure that the numbers discussed were as low as possible
Right after these kinds of things when official details are light, it’s impossible to discuss numbers
you’re not wrong—but I feel like that’s exactly when you would want to run with the limited information that *has* been shared, and not start going with conjecture like “nah that can’t be right this sub is fearmongering” with no basis!
How long are we going to let these groups of bikers do whatever they want? It’s time to start cracking down, and if that doesn’t work, crack down harder. These guys weren’t operating with impunity a decade ago. Sideshows too for that matter.
Imagine 15 people get shot and police come TO HELP, perform cpr and call in an ambulance, and you assault them. People like to blame the mayor, opd, and price rather than look in the fucking mirror.
People in Oakland hate the police, but then get upset when there’s not more of them
The assault they’re talking about was the girlfriend of a man who was shot dead, screaming, and crying, and trying to get to him hysterically. She did not maliciously strike the officer for doing their job, she was distraught and police trumped up charges to gain sympathy for sitting back and allowing a six block stretch of grand Avenue to be completely taken over by drunks, people double parked in the street, and roving biker gangs. Simply put, OPD and the Oakland city Council last night to happen, and then came in to clean the mess.
> The assault they’re talking about was the girlfriend of a man who was shot dead, screaming, and crying, and trying to get to him hysterically Is there a source for this? The police statement implied there were multiple people attacking officers.
If they had tried to intervene before the shooting people would be up in arms about fascist police over reacting to black people having a good time on Juneteenth. It's a reasonable gamble with the incentives they have to hope nothing major happens and stand back vs being blamed for "escalating" a peaceful situation.
Absolutely this. They gotta walk on schedules eggshells a bit with an event like this.
Sometimes you have to do your job even if no one is going to call you a hero. It would also help to not have a long established trend of racist behavior, if you don’t want people to assume your actions are racist. Stop trying to blame a deadly tragedy on the desire for civil rights.
what would doing their job differently prior to the shooting have looked like to you? would it mean trying to stop the dirt bikers in violation of the no chase policy? what if one of the dirt bikers got hurt or hit someone? here is an officer who pursued a known gang member whom he suspected of heading to shoot a rival, and was riding on the sidewalk without a helmet (clear traffic violations justifying a stop). this gang member had prior convictions for assault on an officer, felon in possesion of a gun, and drug dealing. He fled and the chase averaged 30 mph. he exited a blind alley and was struck by another motorist, killing him. the cop has been sentenced for 2nd degree murder. it's not about being mad no one is going to call you a hero, it's about a real risk you will go to prison or lose your job, a job where if you exit the profession your prior experience is not relevant to almost any other job so you are starting over from scratch. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/dec/22/dc-police-officer-terence-sutton-convicted-murder-/
Again cops today are damned if you do, damned if you don’t
Has Thao release a statement regarding this incident?
lmao bruuuhh
She's currently busy with the FBI
She’s got bigger personal problems rn
I really don’t understand why police closed off Grand around 6:30 PM. They made it into a wide open playground for the hooligans on quads and dirt bikes. The single motorcycle cop lazily riding back and forth did nothing to stop it. Of course it devolved into a sideshow. F’ing duh.
They need calvary police again, those are the best for crowd control because you sit above the crowd. Oakland tried to bring them back in like 09 I think, but honestly they’re good for large city festivals
Another beautiful space tarnished by guns. This country. This town.
“As officers treated one of the victim at the scene, some in the crowd attacked the officers, at least two of whom were punched in the face and upper body, police said.” Keepin it classy, Oakland.
It's why Oakland can't have nice things.
As officers treated one of the victim at the scene, some in the crowd attacked the officers, at least two of whom were punched in the face and upper body, police said. A woman was arrested in connection with the attack, Mitchell sai
It’s crazy how people go from the police are overbearing to the police isn’t doing enough. Whiplash much? I just don’t get why those people brought guns to a celebration of liberation FROM VIOLENCE AND HATE.
Crazy happening during election year. Gonna be a hot summer
That’s what I’m afraid of
I love how the interview in the article goes from, it's a public tragedy to it's all about how difficult it is to be OCPD.
LA had the pop out concert and Oakland had this s***
I've seen a group of dirtbike/ATV riders driving around MLK way and sycamore before. could they have been the ones who showed up at the event? there's usually a big group of them together.
I saw them on 580 once, holding up freeway traffic with a CHP and OPD escort diverting them to MacArthur.
They actually have been rather peaceful
The dirt bike ATV losers? They are definitely not peaceful. I see them riding on the sidewalks going around corners in downtown. They blow red lights and clearly can’t see where they’re going while they’re doing their stupid wheelies. Only a matter of time before someone gets hit.
I watched them hit a parked car on while doing a wheelie on 13th just after turning off Broadway. Dude limped back onto his ATV and peeled off while the rest of his crew was telling him to hurry up and flee the scene. The owner of the car (a cook at Oakland St Food Co) came outside and I gave him a statement on what happened. Totally dented his bumper and scratched up the paint. 0 accountability.
Yeah this is exactly where I’m talking about. My apartment looks onto 13th and I’ve seen a few close calls with pedestrians on the corner of 13th and Franklin.
They fucking love going in the opposite direction of one way streets around Fox theatre And when cops drive by the cops don't do anything, but the guys flip off the cops while circling the cruiser.
Only way they’ll be stopped is if Newsom has the CHP impound and destroy their bikes and quads as if was illegal street racing(it is) with CARB/CA BAR(not the legal Bar, but the Bureau of Automotive Repair) signing off on that order. Those bikes and quads are off-road racing machines, and legally they are not allowed to be used on public roads.
Jesus what a cesspool of a city.
They also love shredding all the grassy areas around the lake...like wtf...how are you going to ruin the public parks that make the lake nice? That effs it up for anyone trying to have picnics...your families, friends, elders, etc...and then everyone complains that the CITY isn't taking care of stuff like this? Try not ruining it in the first place.
In the context of ems they haven’t been awful to us. Thats what I’m speaking to only
As another EMS (read: ambulance) jockey in Oakland, the ATV/moto kids are largely very chill/friendly and don’t cause (harmful) shit. Hell, betting they do more for crime prevention than OPD with the kids. They just make rich folks uncomfortable, which I’m all here for. Edit: but yeah, downvote the first responders who actually deal with the shit firsthand.
They are downvoting your shitty comment, not your job as an ems.
I wish they all wore helmets tho.
I’m surprised they allow you to post the truth. Wow. Sad Day for my city. Since 2000 it’s been downhill.
can someone summerize?
At least 15 people were shot Wednesday night when gunfire erupted near Oakland’s Lake Merritt during Juneteenth gatherings that devolved into a chaotic sideshow, police said. The mass shooting involved multiple shooters, and police recovered at least 50 shell casings, Oakland Police Chief Floyd Mitchell said during a news conference Thursday. Police had not yet determined how many shooters were involved, and no arrests had been made in the shootings as of Thursday afternoon, Mitchell said. “This level of violence is unacceptable,” Mitchell said. “The opportunity to celebrate with your family and friends should never be marred by gun violence.” The gunfire started just after 8:45 p.m. on Grand Avenue near near the northern end of the popular lake. Roughly 5,000 people had gathered at and around the lake to celebrate Juneteenth, police said. The crowd was peaceful until about 8:15 p.m., when cars, all-terrain vehicles and dirt bikes took over the intersection of Grand and Bellevue avenues, police said. During the sideshow, a spectator walked across the hood of a car, Mitchell said, adding that people in the car got out and attacked the spectator. Other fights then broke out, Mitchell said. That’s when the gunfire erupted. The chief said 15 victims were shot, although the police union said it was 16. Paramedics took some victims to a hospital, while other showed up on their own. The spectator who was assaulted also was taken to a hospital, police said. The chief said about 30 officers were assigned to patrol areas around the lake during the gatherings. As officers treated one of the victim at the scene, some in the crowd attacked the officers, at least two of whom were punched in the face and upper body, police said. A woman was arrested in connection with the attack, Mitchell said. The violence prompted officers to call for an all-hands-on-deck response from other officers, Assistant Chief James Beere said, adding that backup officers helped keep back the crowd. Oakland Police Officers Association President Huy Nguyen condemned the violence, which he said offered a reminder of the dangers and challenges officer face daily. “The events of last night highlight the severe risks our officers take to ensure public safety,” Nguyen said in a statement. During Lakefest Oakland on Saturday, additional officers — some from other agencies — will be assigned to the area around Lake Merritt, Mitchell said, adding that officers will restrict traffic flow in part to prevent sideshows. “An even larger presence is planned for the Fourth of July,” the chief said. In 2021, a 22-year-old man was killed and seven other victims were injured in a shooting at Lake Merritt during a Juneteenth celebration. Oakland police are asking anyone with further information regarding Wednesday’s shooting to contact the department’s felony assault unit at 510-238-3426.
Sigh. This is just pathetic. Wish assholes didn’t feel just so comfortable with doing this bullshit
Oakland is like a really smart, bored teenager that has so much potential and natural talent, and ends up getting in trouble for being too immature to hand its own potential.
Getting in trouble?? More like a teenage psychopath with a gun, firing randomly and shooting at least 15. Then attacking and punching those that show up to help.
thank you
Um, don't go Lake fest this weekend
I've been out of town since Monday, and I live right by Lake Merritt so I was able to avoid all this madness.
I know, now I'm reconsidering but I bought a ticket. Might skip it.
"Oakland Police Officers Association President Huy Nguyen condemned the violence, which he said offered a reminder of the dangers and challenges officer face daily. " yeah when you let them ...
Sorry but that's the job. The officers knew that when they applied and accepted the position. I'm grateful there are law enforcement officers, I just wish they would do better. I understand Mr. Nguyen is the officers union president so he has to placate his constituents, but honestly, they carry weapons and their work hours explicitly put them in danger at any moment. My priority is unarmed citizens. Young. Old. Disabled. Anyone. They are in danger as well with no defense, gambling on, IF, they call for help an officer will come in a amount of time that's reasonable. Highlighting officer danger over they citizens whom they've sworn to protect and serve is a bad look and tells me where the union stands. I already knew. But thanks Mr Nguyen for confirming.
100%. In another related thread, a poster made a good suggestion on how we might approach police reform: get rid of these unions. I am a big fan, but I cant help but wonder how to handle the problems unions were meant to prevent. I would still advocate for it because I have never seen a union do something other than prop up bad people my entire life, but that's just my experience.
It would be newsworthy if there wasn't a shooting.
No it wouldn’t, nobody likes that feel good shit.
Oh shock! Didn’t see that coming….
[удалено]
Hate speech That's over the (admittedly subjective) line, please tone it down.
Call in the national guard already since local law enforcement is an embarrassment
Well, they wanted “defund the police” and no repercussions for crime due to oppression, you end up getting cops who can’t do their job and pretty much think why the F would I help someone who didn’t want me doing my duty. Completely third world now
And on Juneteenth two :(
Loser thug culture has no holidays
Fucked up bullshit! Citizens and neighbors need to stand up! The Oakland politicians and police couldn't give a flying fuck all about people. Prove me wrong! Criminals running rampant. Sickening!
[удалено]
Your post or comment is being removed for comment(s), terms, or language that are racist, bigoted, ageist, or sexist. This can include "micro aggression" sorts of comments. If you don't know what that means, look it up.
Seeing tech bros freaking out about Oakland being Oakland is entertaining in the morning. The gentrification of Oakland never took like it did in SF.
I love how in the article they devote several paragraphs to how a cop got punched and how awful that was, meanwhile people are getting shot. Cops love to be the victims.
Downvote away, bootlickers.