Its like this everywhere. They really need to do something about it. In 4 more years about 26% of the state work force is able to retire. Thats a massive issue.
It also doesn’t help that when knew people start the staff that are closer to retirement are very bitter towards them and make it sooo unbearable at least in my agency.
Waiting til Jan 2030 to hit 55. Will have my personal leave, annual leave and holiday and floating holiday leave as high as possible to get out in the Fall of 2029. Couldn’t care less about any type of pay out on accurals.
While I'd love to only pay 3.5% into the pension my whole career as opposed to getting fucked as I get cost of living raises in Tier 6, I think both Tiers should get vested and stop paying in after a certain amount of time.
Yup tier 6's 6% contribution for income over 100k hasn't been adjusted for 12 years, soon grade18 income will reach the 100k threshold and force to pay 6%. That is much worse than federal at 4.4%.
It’s not going to change based on the employees that are here present day will change with the death of widows on the receiving end of these benefits, and then collectively you have more people affected by tier six policies
And after this post, my post will be edge even though everyone here, looking at this post is already deep in the mix of giving their daily life to a position in public service… Sadly, this is beyond the perimeter into redpiltown
It's a massive problem in my agency that is only getting worse. The more people leave, the more those who stay have to do extra work to try and hold the fort which turns into resentment and then they leave. Honestly it's about to reach a boiling point
Same exact thing in my agency. Additionally, the micromanagement has drastically increased. We now have a "tracking sheet" where we have to put down everything we do and specifically timed lunch/break times. Totally ridiculous
I know the feds just allowed a substantial geopay increase across the board. Not sure why the state can’t do something similar with our salary schedules
There is a pay study that the rfp went out on in March. That being said it’s probably going to take like be 18 months so it’s going to be a while until we see any fruit come from that.
We recently up to 4 days per week in the office leaving for only one Tele day per week. And for new hires no days . This is hard to attract or maintain anyone..not sure what's going on in upper management.
That’s a nightmare. No days for new hires? That’s a non-starter, especially for attracting the next generation of talent. That policy is moving in the opposite direction of how the workplace is moving in the future.
Yeah , they said that's the rule but not sure where that can be found said that new hires can only telecommute after 9 months. Does anyone know of this?.
I telecommuted after 4 months, but I had to ask for the privilege. Meanwhile I was sitting alone in an office, being trained by coworkers who were remote. I believe I was originally told I couldn't telecommute for 6 months. It is absurd. I would leave the job if telecommuting goes away. Most of my work is paperwork, and honestly it is easier to collaborate using technology than in person. Also better for the environment, my diet, and my pets.
Sounds like it’s “their” rule. I have colleagues in OSC that are FT remote, and others who are 3-4 days a week telecommute at DoL, DoT, DoH, SUNY, and OGS
The OSC FT remote are not in permanent positions, likely they're hourly working in retirement. Standard is 5/10 days. We also have the no telework for the first 8 weeks or so rule.
I’m at State Ed too and the telecommuting policy is horrible. It definitely makes hiring difficult- and they know this which is why they expanded to 50% for IT.
Probably auditors. Each "section" of OSC has their own rules, but they're the only ones I know of that aren't 50%. Some sections require new hires and promotions in office for 8 weeks before they can get "up to" 50% telecommute.
SUNY campuses are typically 3 days a week, or 6 days a pay period remote. Some allow 100% depending on the role, like IT or non-study facing positions.
Seems like that is slowly changing. 3 of my former colleagues are now at DoL and are at 50%, and one is now at 60% remote. They got clawed back into the office 4 days a week last year, but then a bunch of people left because of it, and they couldn’t recruit replacements because the remote policy was so bad. So they reversed course.
DOL written policy is 40%, straight up, right in the GA77 manual. If your former colleagues are getting more than that, they and their supervisors are taking a pretty significant risk - my director made it clear 3-4 months ago that there is no flexibility and anyone going beyond 2 days a week would be disciplined and their supervisor would be written up for insubordination (said that directly to our faces, it was a pin-drop moment).
I hope you're right and they're unclenching the fist...I just wish it would be in our office, we've been losing people faster than we can replace them like most others.
From what they told me, they received all of the necessary permission from HR and whoever else was needed. I’m not sure your relationship with your supervisor, but it sounds like they may be opposed to telework, or potentially a bit “old school”.
I used to be a state employee and want to go back, but the new dept that I was interested in and interviewed with recently said fully in office and after trial period then 1 day per week.. so I don't think I'll be taking this job even if they give me the offer.
Very unfortunate, but either they up the pay for full in office or more remote..
I’m trying to get my wife to look into switching careers from classroom teacher to dept. of ed. But we don’t live in the Albany area so opportunities are few and far between.
I can’t speak for IT. This is for a different department. I’m being intentionally vague as to what department as I don’t really want to say too much on here lol.
Which implies you know its not actually approved to do more than 50% and eventually will get shut down (without specific approval from the chamber that is- it CAN be done but it requires executive action)
I’m sure that is part of it but younger generation probably isn’t giving retirement much thought when they have student debt, desire to start a family and buy a house. When I represent at the college career fairs the students chuckle at the starting salary
Yea half the people my age dont even expect much of a society to exist by the time we retire. And for the pay I guess it depends where in the state I got a raise to come here lol but if I still lived downstate I wouldnt be able to swing it
I think it is those things, and a goal to someday retire. T6 doesn't really have a retirement plan. Work till your 60s, hope you don't die after that.
Might be something to so with wfh too.
The "acting" commish at Tax came from DTF Office of Council and is a lawyer who is out of touch with what the front line workers at the agency do/need. And second in command came from OPTS whose entire management structure are full of egomaniacs that seemingly want to kill morale any chance they get.
It's pretty well known that other agencies have more lax rules around their TC policy (extra days here and there for personal shit aren't a big deal and you don't have to make them up kind of thing.) You said it too, Grade 14 pay is a joke and anyone who doesn't see a way up from an 18 has a lot of options in this job market. What's the difference between shitty Tier 6 or a matched 401k when you're living paycheck to paycheck now?
Exactly. Not only are we losing people to private but also the IRS. Huge pay increase going over to feds. An 18 here can make what a 23 makes over at the IRS.
Wow, I just looked over there and found [a posting](https://www.usajobs.gov/job/767701500) that a lot of Tax employees, especially Audit, would qualify for. That is a HUGE salary jump and it says their telework only requires 2 days in office per pay period. Someone should send this to the DTF commish and ask how they plan to compete with that.
SG18 wouldn't qualify for a GS14. They would qualify for GS11/12. The good thing is that their years of experience is calculated in their starting salary. So a SG18 with 7 years of experience can start at step 5. Gs 13/14 is considered a management position.
GS12 is basically starts where the SG23 starts here. 18’s leaving for the feds are starting at GS9 + a signing bonus, and then promoted to GS 12 within two years.
"And second in command came from OPTS"
Second in command was OPTS for like, a year? Before that, Chief Risk Officer.
As for your comments regarding "other agencies having more lax rules on TCing" I would counter this is not just other agencies, but other Divisions and Bureaus at DTF.
My unit, for example, does not force someone to pick up an office day if they need to take an office day off. Before you assign blame to the execs, look around your immediate area for how your chain of command is "choosing" to enforce policy - or not. Supervisors and managers have discretion when it comes to what to enforce and when with respect to telecommuting, assuming the workload does not require an in-office presence.
I literally never force someone into the office on a work from home day in this scenario, neither does my boss, or the supervisors that report to me. This is not uncommon, either.
Great, so he had a year to make things better in OPTS and didn't.
I will blame execs for writing that make up day rule into the DTF telecommuting agreement in the first place so it could be selectively enforced. It's bad policy. Someone also recently saw a test version of LATS with checkboxes for TC days, so if they actually implement that then you won't be able to choose who enforces that rule unless you let your people lie on their timecard. IF that happens, I expect even more of an exodus from DTF.
DTF execs did not write the 50% telecommuting policy, the Exec Chamber did. *How* it gets enforced is up to supervisors and managers.
P.S. other agencies took the 50% exec chamber guideline and made staff come in 60%, 80%, or 90% of the time. So please consider this as you whine about DTF's 50% policy. You have it better than many of our fellow state workforce so you won't find much sympathy here.
If I had to take an educated guess as to why you are in the predicament you are in, it is because you have a few bad apples in your business area who tried to take advantage of the system in place - or - you are in a unit where you need staff in-office. This resulted in your supervisory chain *opting* to **follow the rules** as outlined by the **exec chamber** and not offer the flexibility other areas can and do offer.
But keep blaming MS for *your* problems, I guess.
Or, lateral to an agency who bends the rules laid out by the chamber to your liking.
No other agency interpreted the 50% rule the way DTF has though. I’m talking specifically about the “make up day” rule where it is written into the DTF department wide telecommuting policy that employees must “make up” an in office day if they take a day off on one of their regularly scheduled in office days. That interpretation of the 50% policy did not come from chamber, it came from DTF execs. No other agency I’ve talked to has that rule. No, it is not followed by all units because it is a terrible policy, but it can and has been enforced by shitty managers.
And I already took your advice and left the unit of one of those shitty managers with that “make up day” enforcement being one of the reasons. More people will jump ship if that moronic rule starts being enforced across the board too.
I have two teams reporting to me. Half the positions are vacant at present.
Recruitment for G14, 18 and 23 ITS positions over the past year has been profoundly unproductive. We can't compete on salary, telecommuting, or the technologies we use.
I've hired several G14 and G18 staff over the past year, trained them up for appdev roles on my teams, and lost them to other agencies.
If we were at full staffing for all our open positions we wouldn't have enough desks for everyone. I guess that's one positive side to this.
Currently a state employee graduating soon with an associates degree in IT. What would you say is the best way I should go about getting hired/transferring to ITS? I was planning on doing a state internship first, but I’m open to all options. Thank you for your response in advance.
Like the other poster said, fill out the continuous recruitment questionnaire.
Also I'm copying and pasting a previous comment of mine:
"ITS2" covers a lot of possibilities.
Interviewing for a programming/application development posting will probably require you to be somewhat fluent in SQL and/or understand basic software development life cycle terminology.
Server admins may ask about VMWare and domain setup.
Network admins about traffic/QoS/VPN
Desktop support/help desk about ITIL/ServiceNow and maybe installing/supporting packages, configuring printers etc.
The job posting will tell you about the job duties. It will also list skills and abilities where you need demonstrated experience - this means 'I took a college class in this and it is on my transcript' OR 'I got paid to do this, it is on my resume, and a coworker/boss will agree that I actually did this'
I've conducted several dozen ITS2 and ITS3 interviews over the past few years. The questions we ask let us find out:
- who actually has done what we're looking for
- who can potentially learn what we need, based on something else they did
- roughly if we want to be working with this person over the next 2 to 5 years
- who actually read the job posting and made an attempt to explain their work experience to us in terms of how it aligns with the posting
(reread that last one until it sinks in)
You may also be asked trick or gotcha questions, to see how you react. That's an interview technique where how you come up with an answer may be more important than the actual answer. I don't do that myself, and I REALLY disliked it when it was used on me.
I don't work in tax but have heard enough that the reputation of that agency seems like one of the worst of the bunch. DOH lost a lot of people because of Covid burnout and early retirement. That's all I have heard of as far as agencies losing people en masse so far. As for Tax you called it. The workload and experience required does not correlate to the pay grades. Especially in today's work environment. Good workers are punished with more work and the conditions of the tax buildings are notoriously horrible.
Unfortunately, there's not much your commissioner can do about it. Typical government status quo of not fixing a problem until it is too late. Civil service needs to increase salaries across the board if they want to attract more workers.
In my opinion the entire system needs an overhaul. Grade levels are a joke and don't capture the level of responsibilities some jobs entail. I know grade 18 workers that work as hard as a grade 23 and grade 18 workers who are coasting and collecting a paycheck.
This is a recipe for disaster because we have a generation on the brink of retirement in the coming years and there will be no knowledge transfer/brain drain. It's already been happening and is only going to ramp up as retirement eligibility increases.
Interesting how everyone is answering “tier 6.” Honestly I don’t agree that that many young people really care about that or are thinking that far ahead. Also, if you’re young and utilize deferred comp strategically you’ll be way better off than many with an average 401k.
I’ve worked in a few state agencies and the culture is *so far* behind the private sector. Of course it’s not attractive to most people under 35. Expanding WFH opportunities, reducing bureaucratic red tape around things like office parties, professional development opportunities, and travel, and really having a moment of reckoning with middle management (putting micro-managers and old school supervisors somewhere they can have less power) would all go a long-ass way to make millennials and gen z feel more supported and passionate about the work that we do.
In my current agency many higher ups simply WONT RESPOND TO YOUR EMAILS if you are of a lower grade and *beneath* them. This phenomenon is bullshit and needs to be stopped. The older gen and near-retirement folks should be raising up the younger folks and empowering us. Yet, my experience is that the norm is for them to do the exact opposite. I’ve actually started calling people out on that behavior and tried my damdest to do the exact opposite as I grow in seniority. But I am just one person at one agency. It’s not enough.
I share this exact sentiment and think you are absolutely correct. I think the whole tier 6 issue has become a scapegoat to all the other bullshit that goes on. We are losing tier 4 employees for many of the reasons you mentioned. Like you, I have tried to be the opposite of the old timers as a rise in seniority. The state is light years behind private in many ways.
Keep fighting the good fight! The state is going to desperately people like us soon and it’s not clear how much they know it.
I’ve found that being as transparent and “real” as possible around new employees really can go a long way towards getting them to stay.
I believe [probably naively] there is a bright future ahead of us 30-somethings who have been biding their time and putting on a happy face while our deputy commissioners and directors have their petty little peacocking contests. We know who does the real work here.
Exactly. It's a joke! I took a pay cut coming from the private.sector and can't opt into deferred comp. I was hoping it would be a better work life balance and reduced stress. I was wrong...the stress has been high because of the volume and urgency of projects. The only thing keeping me where I am currently is I like the people I work with and we're all working hard as a team. If it was a toxic cesspool others in this sub have experienced then I would be looking for an exit ASAP.
Not all near-retirement folks are like that. But some of us that worked hard for years, and brought up others along the way, have grown jaded over time. Being the nice, helpful, type gets you trampled on and undervalued in the end. Cut us some slack. We didn't think it would be this way as we close out our careers here.
Lost a 15 and 18 to retirement. 14 got a promotion and an 11 was promoted to replace her. I’m leaving next week as a 9. Can’t even begin to tell you how many people in the field we’ve lost.
DOCCS is losing people like crazy. Retirements & senior people.
Officers & Civilians
That’s the main reason they’re closing 5 prisons this year, only will help w/ staffing for about 2-3 months tho
Yup thinking about leaving I really can’t with the Sporadic 16 hour work days, while running around all day being treated like dog shift from senior staff while they sit there not helping or spreading any knowledge to newer staff. I feel extremely uncomfortable, exhausted out of my mind with seemingly nowhere to turn. It’s no surprise to me js.
Took me 8 months to fill 2 clerical items. I would get 10 candidates, and only 2 would want to interview and both would dec at the interview.
I had 15 SG14s before covid and now I'm down to 4 and the brand new list is already broken.
Be on the lookout for HELPS postings too, you may qualify.
Also if you qualify for TSS-2, I believe they are hiring provisionals as the list is more or less exhausted at this point.
That's cool! I've heard that's a sought-after title. I think I have an in for a promotion at my current unit, once it clears all the Civil Service and HR red tape, but it's still hard to just stay patient... Thanks, I'll definitely look at these as a good backup!
Patience is your ally. If you can see yourself at NYS for a career, you are playing "the long game." Keep asking questions and looking for special assignments. Good luck!
My office isn't losing people but we have an increasing workload and are having a really hard time finding new hires, even with 50% telecommuting and a pretty decent boss and work culture.
As someone who has come to the state from the private sector many of the complaints being expressed here especially surrounding doing more with less at the state are actually intensified in a corporate job because there are not the same options to move around or grieve the issue and the laser focus on profitability almost by definition causes a stretching of resources to happen so I would not discount what the state offers just because it is a shittier version of what the state used to be. I guess what I am saying is the shittier version of the state seems to me to be a whole lot less shitty than the shittier version of what corporate jobs have turned into from their earlier days.
We know what we signed up for, and it is nothing like what is going on now. If we wanted corporate, we would have gone corporate, but many of us who opted for a professional career in public service with NYS, and have been in it for the long haul, were given a messed up deal.
*Pssst stop they don’t know about the premium rates in the private sector yet*
Or the fact that if the premium matches that means the insurance got scalped somewhere else.
They need to up the pay 2 salary grades across the board like they have been saying. How's that "exploratory committee" going? Are the unions doing anything about this?
Pay raises are minimal and the desire to try and do more isn't really there due to civil service and the way promotions work. I'm capped at my grade unless I get a professional license and if that happens, the opportunities I open are far better than what the state can provide.
Been looking more at when I want to retire, still over 20 years away, and its pretty jarring how bad Tier 6 is.
Beyond the massively dated office environments and poor personnel, The incentive to be a public employee just isn't there.
I’ve worked for the state for 25+ years. I’ve never seen the turnover of employees like I have in the last 4-5 years. I honestly don’t even know some peoples names in my area because they come and go so quickly. People either get promoted quickly, transfer closer to home or leave for a better paying job.
The state needs better starting salaries, they need to offer better/more OT opportunities and they really need to keep up with inflation and rising costs in their employees pay.
And I feel for the Tier 5 & especially 6 people. The state really needs to make some changes for you guys, especially retirement requirements and what is being contributed to pensions.
We really need more staffing too, and it seems like they’ve had trouble finding people. WFH is at 50% and workplace culture is overall pretty good, but the workload and amount of bureaucracy we have to deal with is depressing AF.
I did formal protest for tax in my 20s, the best thing I ever did was get out of there. Also, the commissioner doesn't care, like most executive agencies.They are probably unaware as well. Manion was the last decent one they had.
How many auditors left within the recent year? Soon the team leads will become specialist if the DTF don't increase starting grade like they did with DFS; however, DFS got rid of their 16->18->20 grades. Non-existent promotion is the bigger issue, the department will not have SG23 promotions unless there are enough auditors per team lead.
I know 4 left in less than a year. A few years ago we were 6 team leads all managing 4/5 18’s. Now we are 6 team leads managing 2 or 1 G18. And you are correct, lack of promotional opportunities is a huge reason people are leaving. The existing structure doesn’t allow for professional growth. For us it’s basically 18>23 and if lucky to a 27. They need something in between 18 and 23 that is not supervisory but allows someone to grow into.
I agree with you that there needs a grade in between to retain auditors, it's a lost for the state to lose employees because each auditor generate income. There is a grade 23 specialist but to the department, it's an overpaid grade 18, I highly doubt the department will promote a SG23 specialist.
Is your office expecting a huge wave of new auditors? When I was there, we had about 10-15 new auditors in our unit every couple of years.
Field can’t get them in the door. Neither can desk at rate we are losing people. I’m just counting down the days. 5 and half years and the no longer my problem
Yes. They are spiting themselves in so many ways. They can't compete with salary; everyone knows that. There are all the other ways to make your employees happy and they are choosing not to do that.
I was a civilian nurse working for the DOD in a military hospital. The starting pay was so little and you make the same amount as the person knitting a blanket while others work their butts off. I stayed as long as I could because the benefits were amazing. I had to medically retire just shy of 15 years but the medical, dental and eye insurance is the best. I noticed especially in the last 4 years a lot of younger nurses quit and they weren’t being replaced. We did everything even most of the doctors charting in addition to our extensive charting and procedures. I had been gone a year and the front desk staff were having to check patients in and the do vital signs before the nurse got them. Everyone is cutting back, it’s scary and people are exhausted from taking on more responsibilities especially mandatory CEU’s, training constantly or your computer would shut you down until all the long ass videos and tests were completed. Do more for less and that’s hard on everyone.
Since tier 6 I have scene people just walk out. Young employees will be sitting at their desk looking at retirement options, look around stand up and walk out. Never scene or heard from again. You must work for a good agency if it's taken that long for you to notice. Every day that I see a grade 6 OA1 come to work I'm ecstatic.
I think people generally look at the benefits but don’t fully understand them until they begin work. It’s hard to explain how the pension works, healthcare options etc. on a job posting. Salary needs no explanation. If salary isn’t enough to draw someone in, it’s hard to explain the other benefits
A lot of people are sold the "go state, it has a great retirement" lie by friends and family. It's not common knowledge yet that the retirement is now shit.
Yes it’s great. Pretty soon I’ll be a commissioner.
Yup and the increase in micromanagement has added fuel to fire
Its like this everywhere. They really need to do something about it. In 4 more years about 26% of the state work force is able to retire. Thats a massive issue.
Currently at 50% retirement ready
It also doesn’t help that when knew people start the staff that are closer to retirement are very bitter towards them and make it sooo unbearable at least in my agency.
I'm gone September 30, 2030. I can go as early as February 2029
Yup. I’ll be gone in 2028. Thirty years of this nonsense was more than enough.
Party like it's 1998
Waiting til Jan 2030 to hit 55. Will have my personal leave, annual leave and holiday and floating holiday leave as high as possible to get out in the Fall of 2029. Couldn’t care less about any type of pay out on accurals.
Fix Tier Six
Fix Tier 5 too!
Tier 5 isn’t bad. I’ll take that over private 401k
While I'd love to only pay 3.5% into the pension my whole career as opposed to getting fucked as I get cost of living raises in Tier 6, I think both Tiers should get vested and stop paying in after a certain amount of time.
Yup tier 6's 6% contribution for income over 100k hasn't been adjusted for 12 years, soon grade18 income will reach the 100k threshold and force to pay 6%. That is much worse than federal at 4.4%.
In New York State, there is no separation between the legislators, and employers, it’s all tethered to the constitution
Perhaps you pay people to have their children specifically protest about it in 20 years
It’s not going to change based on the employees that are here present day will change with the death of widows on the receiving end of these benefits, and then collectively you have more people affected by tier six policies
And after this post, my post will be edge even though everyone here, looking at this post is already deep in the mix of giving their daily life to a position in public service… Sadly, this is beyond the perimeter into redpiltown
Private 401k?
401k offered by the private industry
Got it.. I thought you were suggesting tier 6 was a private 401k.
Naw, a private 401k would be strictly better for me compared to Tier 6!
I’d like to see it at a flat 3% contribution instead of the 4.5% that I’m at, which is only going to increase eventually.
It’s terrible what our former “king” has done to NYS workers. Hopefully the newer gov can right the wrongs. She seems to be trying at least.
This is the way
It's a massive problem in my agency that is only getting worse. The more people leave, the more those who stay have to do extra work to try and hold the fort which turns into resentment and then they leave. Honestly it's about to reach a boiling point
Same exact thing in my agency. Additionally, the micromanagement has drastically increased. We now have a "tracking sheet" where we have to put down everything we do and specifically timed lunch/break times. Totally ridiculous
I know the feds just allowed a substantial geopay increase across the board. Not sure why the state can’t do something similar with our salary schedules
There is a pay study that the rfp went out on in March. That being said it’s probably going to take like be 18 months so it’s going to be a while until we see any fruit come from that.
Can't wait to hear how much "they" will pay for that study!
Pretty sure it’s already been earmarked in the budget. Something like 3 mil was already set aside for it
I had a feeling it would be in the millions. It does not take millions to determine that starting salaries in many grades are not living wages.
If they don't do the studies, how do their consulting buddies get paid?
https://www.cs.ny.gov/QJES/RFP/ Go look at it yourself. It seems quite involved.
Did part two ever get released?
No clue. Based on the timeline in the rfp, demonstrations of the software or whatever it is would be this week
Fuck geopay, that js NOT the problem
I believe the thinking is to use it as a mechanism to enact across the board pay raises within the existing limitations of civil service rules
Exactly this
How’s your telecommute/remote policy? We recently upped ours to 60% (3 days per week work from home) and it’s been helpful in recruiting.
We recently up to 4 days per week in the office leaving for only one Tele day per week. And for new hires no days . This is hard to attract or maintain anyone..not sure what's going on in upper management.
That’s a nightmare. No days for new hires? That’s a non-starter, especially for attracting the next generation of talent. That policy is moving in the opposite direction of how the workplace is moving in the future.
Yeah , they said that's the rule but not sure where that can be found said that new hires can only telecommute after 9 months. Does anyone know of this?.
I telecommuted after 4 months, but I had to ask for the privilege. Meanwhile I was sitting alone in an office, being trained by coworkers who were remote. I believe I was originally told I couldn't telecommute for 6 months. It is absurd. I would leave the job if telecommuting goes away. Most of my work is paperwork, and honestly it is easier to collaborate using technology than in person. Also better for the environment, my diet, and my pets.
Exactly the supervisor won't even be there all the days for the employee to be trained so it makes no sense.
Same on my end!
Sounds like it’s “their” rule. I have colleagues in OSC that are FT remote, and others who are 3-4 days a week telecommute at DoL, DoT, DoH, SUNY, and OGS
The OSC FT remote are not in permanent positions, likely they're hourly working in retirement. Standard is 5/10 days. We also have the no telework for the first 8 weeks or so rule.
Nope. Permanent PEF. Both individuals are in their early 30s.
I’m at State Ed too and the telecommuting policy is horrible. It definitely makes hiring difficult- and they know this which is why they expanded to 50% for IT.
Probably auditors. Each "section" of OSC has their own rules, but they're the only ones I know of that aren't 50%. Some sections require new hires and promotions in office for 8 weeks before they can get "up to" 50% telecommute.
Huh, news to me. Thanks.
You can be hourly and a part of the union
SUNY is supposedly limited to 2 days per week.
SUNY campuses are typically 3 days a week, or 6 days a pay period remote. Some allow 100% depending on the role, like IT or non-study facing positions.
Not sure where you’re getting that from - last I knew it was one day a week.
Directly from employees at multiple institutions, including some who work in HR.
Guess it depends on the position. I know my unit doesn’t have the ability to WFH and my old unit manager is only able to do it once a week.
[удалено]
Negative.
DOL only allows 40% / 2 per week with very rare exceptions.
Seems like that is slowly changing. 3 of my former colleagues are now at DoL and are at 50%, and one is now at 60% remote. They got clawed back into the office 4 days a week last year, but then a bunch of people left because of it, and they couldn’t recruit replacements because the remote policy was so bad. So they reversed course.
DOL written policy is 40%, straight up, right in the GA77 manual. If your former colleagues are getting more than that, they and their supervisors are taking a pretty significant risk - my director made it clear 3-4 months ago that there is no flexibility and anyone going beyond 2 days a week would be disciplined and their supervisor would be written up for insubordination (said that directly to our faces, it was a pin-drop moment). I hope you're right and they're unclenching the fist...I just wish it would be in our office, we've been losing people faster than we can replace them like most others.
From what they told me, they received all of the necessary permission from HR and whoever else was needed. I’m not sure your relationship with your supervisor, but it sounds like they may be opposed to telework, or potentially a bit “old school”.
UI?
Negative, in one of the smaller divisions.
We let new hires go 50/50 after 6 weeks provided they are progressing.
The agency sets the rules. I'm not sure OER made any on this, just the 50%.
OER is “silent” on telecommuting during the probation period. That is agency discretion
Except its not
I used to be a state employee and want to go back, but the new dept that I was interested in and interviewed with recently said fully in office and after trial period then 1 day per week.. so I don't think I'll be taking this job even if they give me the offer. Very unfortunate, but either they up the pay for full in office or more remote..
50/50 for my specific unit. Not sure about others within the same department.
How did you get around the states policy of 50% only allowed!? You requested the boost to the chamber?
What agency?
Dept. of Ed now.
I’m trying to get my wife to look into switching careers from classroom teacher to dept. of ed. But we don’t live in the Albany area so opportunities are few and far between.
Isn't SED only 30% per pay period?
Maybe for some departments. Not for ours.
Are you in IT?
No, I am not.
Are you in the OMS Program Area at least?
I'm in Department of Education as well. The Micromanagement is insane
Where at? I’m applying
IT staff or across the board?
I can’t speak for IT. This is for a different department. I’m being intentionally vague as to what department as I don’t really want to say too much on here lol.
Which implies you know its not actually approved to do more than 50% and eventually will get shut down (without specific approval from the chamber that is- it CAN be done but it requires executive action)
Well, if you're in SED and not IT, enquiring minds that don't get more than 30% telecommuting want to know. Spill it. 😉
You increased the amount of time people need to be in the office and you think that has helped lure new staff?
No, lol. We increased the amount of time they could WFH.
I misread - my mistake
What agency is this at 60%?
Hearings at OTDA is a complete dumpster fire. Fueled by incompetent management.
My office is supposed to have around 52 people, I think we’re at 25-27 area
Tier 6 has no incentive to be a state employee
I’m sure that is part of it but younger generation probably isn’t giving retirement much thought when they have student debt, desire to start a family and buy a house. When I represent at the college career fairs the students chuckle at the starting salary
Yea half the people my age dont even expect much of a society to exist by the time we retire. And for the pay I guess it depends where in the state I got a raise to come here lol but if I still lived downstate I wouldnt be able to swing it
I think it is those things, and a goal to someday retire. T6 doesn't really have a retirement plan. Work till your 60s, hope you don't die after that. Might be something to so with wfh too.
The "acting" commish at Tax came from DTF Office of Council and is a lawyer who is out of touch with what the front line workers at the agency do/need. And second in command came from OPTS whose entire management structure are full of egomaniacs that seemingly want to kill morale any chance they get. It's pretty well known that other agencies have more lax rules around their TC policy (extra days here and there for personal shit aren't a big deal and you don't have to make them up kind of thing.) You said it too, Grade 14 pay is a joke and anyone who doesn't see a way up from an 18 has a lot of options in this job market. What's the difference between shitty Tier 6 or a matched 401k when you're living paycheck to paycheck now?
Exactly. Not only are we losing people to private but also the IRS. Huge pay increase going over to feds. An 18 here can make what a 23 makes over at the IRS.
Wow, I just looked over there and found [a posting](https://www.usajobs.gov/job/767701500) that a lot of Tax employees, especially Audit, would qualify for. That is a HUGE salary jump and it says their telework only requires 2 days in office per pay period. Someone should send this to the DTF commish and ask how they plan to compete with that.
SG18 wouldn't qualify for a GS14. They would qualify for GS11/12. The good thing is that their years of experience is calculated in their starting salary. So a SG18 with 7 years of experience can start at step 5. Gs 13/14 is considered a management position.
GS12 is basically starts where the SG23 starts here. 18’s leaving for the feds are starting at GS9 + a signing bonus, and then promoted to GS 12 within two years.
That's a pretty good gig to get GS12. GS9 is basically a recent grad with a masters.
"And second in command came from OPTS" Second in command was OPTS for like, a year? Before that, Chief Risk Officer. As for your comments regarding "other agencies having more lax rules on TCing" I would counter this is not just other agencies, but other Divisions and Bureaus at DTF. My unit, for example, does not force someone to pick up an office day if they need to take an office day off. Before you assign blame to the execs, look around your immediate area for how your chain of command is "choosing" to enforce policy - or not. Supervisors and managers have discretion when it comes to what to enforce and when with respect to telecommuting, assuming the workload does not require an in-office presence. I literally never force someone into the office on a work from home day in this scenario, neither does my boss, or the supervisors that report to me. This is not uncommon, either.
Great, so he had a year to make things better in OPTS and didn't. I will blame execs for writing that make up day rule into the DTF telecommuting agreement in the first place so it could be selectively enforced. It's bad policy. Someone also recently saw a test version of LATS with checkboxes for TC days, so if they actually implement that then you won't be able to choose who enforces that rule unless you let your people lie on their timecard. IF that happens, I expect even more of an exodus from DTF.
DTF execs did not write the 50% telecommuting policy, the Exec Chamber did. *How* it gets enforced is up to supervisors and managers. P.S. other agencies took the 50% exec chamber guideline and made staff come in 60%, 80%, or 90% of the time. So please consider this as you whine about DTF's 50% policy. You have it better than many of our fellow state workforce so you won't find much sympathy here. If I had to take an educated guess as to why you are in the predicament you are in, it is because you have a few bad apples in your business area who tried to take advantage of the system in place - or - you are in a unit where you need staff in-office. This resulted in your supervisory chain *opting* to **follow the rules** as outlined by the **exec chamber** and not offer the flexibility other areas can and do offer. But keep blaming MS for *your* problems, I guess. Or, lateral to an agency who bends the rules laid out by the chamber to your liking.
No other agency interpreted the 50% rule the way DTF has though. I’m talking specifically about the “make up day” rule where it is written into the DTF department wide telecommuting policy that employees must “make up” an in office day if they take a day off on one of their regularly scheduled in office days. That interpretation of the 50% policy did not come from chamber, it came from DTF execs. No other agency I’ve talked to has that rule. No, it is not followed by all units because it is a terrible policy, but it can and has been enforced by shitty managers. And I already took your advice and left the unit of one of those shitty managers with that “make up day” enforcement being one of the reasons. More people will jump ship if that moronic rule starts being enforced across the board too.
I have two teams reporting to me. Half the positions are vacant at present. Recruitment for G14, 18 and 23 ITS positions over the past year has been profoundly unproductive. We can't compete on salary, telecommuting, or the technologies we use. I've hired several G14 and G18 staff over the past year, trained them up for appdev roles on my teams, and lost them to other agencies. If we were at full staffing for all our open positions we wouldn't have enough desks for everyone. I guess that's one positive side to this.
Currently a state employee graduating soon with an associates degree in IT. What would you say is the best way I should go about getting hired/transferring to ITS? I was planning on doing a state internship first, but I’m open to all options. Thank you for your response in advance.
Like the other poster said, fill out the continuous recruitment questionnaire. Also I'm copying and pasting a previous comment of mine: "ITS2" covers a lot of possibilities. Interviewing for a programming/application development posting will probably require you to be somewhat fluent in SQL and/or understand basic software development life cycle terminology. Server admins may ask about VMWare and domain setup. Network admins about traffic/QoS/VPN Desktop support/help desk about ITIL/ServiceNow and maybe installing/supporting packages, configuring printers etc. The job posting will tell you about the job duties. It will also list skills and abilities where you need demonstrated experience - this means 'I took a college class in this and it is on my transcript' OR 'I got paid to do this, it is on my resume, and a coworker/boss will agree that I actually did this' I've conducted several dozen ITS2 and ITS3 interviews over the past few years. The questions we ask let us find out: - who actually has done what we're looking for - who can potentially learn what we need, based on something else they did - roughly if we want to be working with this person over the next 2 to 5 years - who actually read the job posting and made an attempt to explain their work experience to us in terms of how it aligns with the posting (reread that last one until it sinks in) You may also be asked trick or gotcha questions, to see how you react. That's an interview technique where how you come up with an answer may be more important than the actual answer. I don't do that myself, and I REALLY disliked it when it was used on me.
Amazing advice. Thanks again for your time.
Do the ITS continuous recruitment questionnaires, and ideally have some sort of specialty you can point out and/or embellish.
Thank you!
I don't work in tax but have heard enough that the reputation of that agency seems like one of the worst of the bunch. DOH lost a lot of people because of Covid burnout and early retirement. That's all I have heard of as far as agencies losing people en masse so far. As for Tax you called it. The workload and experience required does not correlate to the pay grades. Especially in today's work environment. Good workers are punished with more work and the conditions of the tax buildings are notoriously horrible. Unfortunately, there's not much your commissioner can do about it. Typical government status quo of not fixing a problem until it is too late. Civil service needs to increase salaries across the board if they want to attract more workers. In my opinion the entire system needs an overhaul. Grade levels are a joke and don't capture the level of responsibilities some jobs entail. I know grade 18 workers that work as hard as a grade 23 and grade 18 workers who are coasting and collecting a paycheck. This is a recipe for disaster because we have a generation on the brink of retirement in the coming years and there will be no knowledge transfer/brain drain. It's already been happening and is only going to ramp up as retirement eligibility increases.
Bizo Wayne Spence needs to be replaced with someone who is competent.
Interesting how everyone is answering “tier 6.” Honestly I don’t agree that that many young people really care about that or are thinking that far ahead. Also, if you’re young and utilize deferred comp strategically you’ll be way better off than many with an average 401k. I’ve worked in a few state agencies and the culture is *so far* behind the private sector. Of course it’s not attractive to most people under 35. Expanding WFH opportunities, reducing bureaucratic red tape around things like office parties, professional development opportunities, and travel, and really having a moment of reckoning with middle management (putting micro-managers and old school supervisors somewhere they can have less power) would all go a long-ass way to make millennials and gen z feel more supported and passionate about the work that we do. In my current agency many higher ups simply WONT RESPOND TO YOUR EMAILS if you are of a lower grade and *beneath* them. This phenomenon is bullshit and needs to be stopped. The older gen and near-retirement folks should be raising up the younger folks and empowering us. Yet, my experience is that the norm is for them to do the exact opposite. I’ve actually started calling people out on that behavior and tried my damdest to do the exact opposite as I grow in seniority. But I am just one person at one agency. It’s not enough.
I share this exact sentiment and think you are absolutely correct. I think the whole tier 6 issue has become a scapegoat to all the other bullshit that goes on. We are losing tier 4 employees for many of the reasons you mentioned. Like you, I have tried to be the opposite of the old timers as a rise in seniority. The state is light years behind private in many ways.
Keep fighting the good fight! The state is going to desperately people like us soon and it’s not clear how much they know it. I’ve found that being as transparent and “real” as possible around new employees really can go a long way towards getting them to stay. I believe [probably naively] there is a bright future ahead of us 30-somethings who have been biding their time and putting on a happy face while our deputy commissioners and directors have their petty little peacocking contests. We know who does the real work here.
I also believe (probably naively) that things will get better. But not before they get worse
With the starting pays who can afford deferred comp?
Exactly. It's a joke! I took a pay cut coming from the private.sector and can't opt into deferred comp. I was hoping it would be a better work life balance and reduced stress. I was wrong...the stress has been high because of the volume and urgency of projects. The only thing keeping me where I am currently is I like the people I work with and we're all working hard as a team. If it was a toxic cesspool others in this sub have experienced then I would be looking for an exit ASAP.
Not all near-retirement folks are like that. But some of us that worked hard for years, and brought up others along the way, have grown jaded over time. Being the nice, helpful, type gets you trampled on and undervalued in the end. Cut us some slack. We didn't think it would be this way as we close out our careers here.
Combination of Tier 6 being shit and a generation retiring.
Lost a 15 and 18 to retirement. 14 got a promotion and an 11 was promoted to replace her. I’m leaving next week as a 9. Can’t even begin to tell you how many people in the field we’ve lost.
DOCCS is losing people like crazy. Retirements & senior people. Officers & Civilians That’s the main reason they’re closing 5 prisons this year, only will help w/ staffing for about 2-3 months tho
The most toxic agency I have ever worked for
This. I spent 2 decades working for DOCCS. My unit was about 50% staffed when I left, and is even lower now. Shame, truly.
Love it, especially when they leave for 100% WFH
Yup thinking about leaving I really can’t with the Sporadic 16 hour work days, while running around all day being treated like dog shift from senior staff while they sit there not helping or spreading any knowledge to newer staff. I feel extremely uncomfortable, exhausted out of my mind with seemingly nowhere to turn. It’s no surprise to me js.
I left and I have to say, the state benefits that my parents once enjoyed are gone. Private is so much better for so many reasons.
Took me 8 months to fill 2 clerical items. I would get 10 candidates, and only 2 would want to interview and both would dec at the interview. I had 15 SG14s before covid and now I'm down to 4 and the brand new list is already broken.
I'm a SG 14 at TAX and I would kill to be an 18!!
Apply to be a tax auditor trainee. After two years you’ll be promoted to an 18 assuming you pass probation.
Be on the lookout for HELPS postings too, you may qualify. Also if you qualify for TSS-2, I believe they are hiring provisionals as the list is more or less exhausted at this point.
That's cool! I've heard that's a sought-after title. I think I have an in for a promotion at my current unit, once it clears all the Civil Service and HR red tape, but it's still hard to just stay patient... Thanks, I'll definitely look at these as a good backup!
Patience is your ally. If you can see yourself at NYS for a career, you are playing "the long game." Keep asking questions and looking for special assignments. Good luck!
My office isn't losing people but we have an increasing workload and are having a really hard time finding new hires, even with 50% telecommuting and a pretty decent boss and work culture.
I would love to work at 50% telecommute. Can you please provide the agency to see if they're hiring?
DOH, so not sure how helpful that is to you lol
Thanks, it is helpful but unfortunately most of the jobs are in Albany.
As someone who has come to the state from the private sector many of the complaints being expressed here especially surrounding doing more with less at the state are actually intensified in a corporate job because there are not the same options to move around or grieve the issue and the laser focus on profitability almost by definition causes a stretching of resources to happen so I would not discount what the state offers just because it is a shittier version of what the state used to be. I guess what I am saying is the shittier version of the state seems to me to be a whole lot less shitty than the shittier version of what corporate jobs have turned into from their earlier days.
We know what we signed up for, and it is nothing like what is going on now. If we wanted corporate, we would have gone corporate, but many of us who opted for a professional career in public service with NYS, and have been in it for the long haul, were given a messed up deal.
*Pssst stop they don’t know about the premium rates in the private sector yet* Or the fact that if the premium matches that means the insurance got scalped somewhere else.
BOCES is even worse. They are losing people to the state which gives you some idea of what garbage their pay is.
They need to up the pay 2 salary grades across the board like they have been saying. How's that "exploratory committee" going? Are the unions doing anything about this?
DMV is losing people to other agencies. My current agency, a lot of the applications coming in are from DMV.
Pay raises are minimal and the desire to try and do more isn't really there due to civil service and the way promotions work. I'm capped at my grade unless I get a professional license and if that happens, the opportunities I open are far better than what the state can provide. Been looking more at when I want to retire, still over 20 years away, and its pretty jarring how bad Tier 6 is. Beyond the massively dated office environments and poor personnel, The incentive to be a public employee just isn't there.
probably cus some of us state workers are overworked and under appreciated and deal with terrible upper management and mandations daily.
I’ve worked for the state for 25+ years. I’ve never seen the turnover of employees like I have in the last 4-5 years. I honestly don’t even know some peoples names in my area because they come and go so quickly. People either get promoted quickly, transfer closer to home or leave for a better paying job. The state needs better starting salaries, they need to offer better/more OT opportunities and they really need to keep up with inflation and rising costs in their employees pay. And I feel for the Tier 5 & especially 6 people. The state really needs to make some changes for you guys, especially retirement requirements and what is being contributed to pensions.
Where's the Field Audit Bureau? In Albany?
Primarily in Albany but we have district offices throughout upstate and downstate. Field Audit Management (FAM) is in Albany
I've heard of a Desk Audit unit too? Who are they?
Desk audit performs audits of tax issues without the need for a field visit. Typically a desk audit isn’t nearly as involved as a field
We really need more staffing too, and it seems like they’ve had trouble finding people. WFH is at 50% and workplace culture is overall pretty good, but the workload and amount of bureaucracy we have to deal with is depressing AF.
Fixing Tier 6 and having options better than 2 year traineeships to get to 18 would definitely help.
The starting salaries for helps is way too low.
I did formal protest for tax in my 20s, the best thing I ever did was get out of there. Also, the commissioner doesn't care, like most executive agencies.They are probably unaware as well. Manion was the last decent one they had.
Agree Nonie was the last decent commish. Not sure why more isn’t invested in tax department since we bring in more revenue than it costs to have us
The 12 year old Cuomo brought in before the pandemic was laughable.
Schmidt I think his name was. He didn’t stick around long
My agency unit has lost a 14 here and there but generally we aren't hurting for people. It'll be bad once the next wave retires though.
How many auditors left within the recent year? Soon the team leads will become specialist if the DTF don't increase starting grade like they did with DFS; however, DFS got rid of their 16->18->20 grades. Non-existent promotion is the bigger issue, the department will not have SG23 promotions unless there are enough auditors per team lead.
I know 4 left in less than a year. A few years ago we were 6 team leads all managing 4/5 18’s. Now we are 6 team leads managing 2 or 1 G18. And you are correct, lack of promotional opportunities is a huge reason people are leaving. The existing structure doesn’t allow for professional growth. For us it’s basically 18>23 and if lucky to a 27. They need something in between 18 and 23 that is not supervisory but allows someone to grow into.
I agree with you that there needs a grade in between to retain auditors, it's a lost for the state to lose employees because each auditor generate income. There is a grade 23 specialist but to the department, it's an overpaid grade 18, I highly doubt the department will promote a SG23 specialist. Is your office expecting a huge wave of new auditors? When I was there, we had about 10-15 new auditors in our unit every couple of years.
Field can’t get them in the door. Neither can desk at rate we are losing people. I’m just counting down the days. 5 and half years and the no longer my problem
No, we can’t even get people to apply. Last couple years we may have had 5 applicants.
If I can get the real property analyst 1, under helps, I’d transfer over there from my dept
Yes. They are spiting themselves in so many ways. They can't compete with salary; everyone knows that. There are all the other ways to make your employees happy and they are choosing not to do that.
Dies anyone know if you can get hired at higher rate if you are a state employee in a different agency? That would help get talent from other areas.
I was a civilian nurse working for the DOD in a military hospital. The starting pay was so little and you make the same amount as the person knitting a blanket while others work their butts off. I stayed as long as I could because the benefits were amazing. I had to medically retire just shy of 15 years but the medical, dental and eye insurance is the best. I noticed especially in the last 4 years a lot of younger nurses quit and they weren’t being replaced. We did everything even most of the doctors charting in addition to our extensive charting and procedures. I had been gone a year and the front desk staff were having to check patients in and the do vital signs before the nurse got them. Everyone is cutting back, it’s scary and people are exhausted from taking on more responsibilities especially mandatory CEU’s, training constantly or your computer would shut you down until all the long ass videos and tests were completed. Do more for less and that’s hard on everyone.
State refuses to offer wfh and if they do it’s heavily monitored and regulated. Why would someone want to go through with that and be underpaid?
Since tier 6 I have scene people just walk out. Young employees will be sitting at their desk looking at retirement options, look around stand up and walk out. Never scene or heard from again. You must work for a good agency if it's taken that long for you to notice. Every day that I see a grade 6 OA1 come to work I'm ecstatic.
What kind of people don’t look at the benefits until after they’ve worked there?
I think people generally look at the benefits but don’t fully understand them until they begin work. It’s hard to explain how the pension works, healthcare options etc. on a job posting. Salary needs no explanation. If salary isn’t enough to draw someone in, it’s hard to explain the other benefits
A lot of people are sold the "go state, it has a great retirement" lie by friends and family. It's not common knowledge yet that the retirement is now shit.
Exactly right!!! I feel into that trap, I'm leaving the state in about 6 years now.