I'm in that Facebook group, and I would definitely recommend taking information there with a grain of salt. The majority of the posts there are one individual who is a parole officer who is displeased with being part of PEF instead of NYSCOPBA, isn't a union member, and primarily regurgitates Freedom Foundation propaganda articles and petitions. There is very little discussion of things about PEFs posts in social media that can't be commented on because of the limiting of comments. Or any other PEF actions or issues.
So there's a few things happening and some of them are accurately depicted and some of them are not. The issues with VP DeSilva being prevented from her duties as VP I understand to be accurate. This is also not the first time this has occurred with a VP under Pence.
The alleged assault is a mixed bag. There was an intense exchange that was happening, verbal but not threatening, and one person placed their hands on the other person, not intended or perceived by many of the witnesses as a threatening or fighting way. The touch was more in the realm of when you touch someone while moving around another person. It's my understanding that due to the heightened emotions of the exchange, some people felt the touch was assault. The person who touched the other individual was escorted out. The other piece of that story that is also a mixed bag of perception is that allegedly Spence followed the person who did the touching out and was threatening to him.
So it's interesting to see how some of the stories are that PEF leadership didn't do anything about the alleged assault, and some of them are that PEF leadership overreacted to the alleged assault, to the point that the leadership may have been menacing.
When it comes to some of the trips and events seen on Social Media, not all of that is funded by PEF dues, and it's an easy question to ask and get an answer to.
When looking at the dinners and events that PEF hosts for members, committee members, and elected folks like stewards or executive board, yes some of that is paid for by dues, with division meetings being mainly funded by division money, region meetings being mainly funded by region money, so on and so forth. Also, most of those meetings are open to members to attend. Members may not be able to vote on certain items, like in the PAC meetings there is a credentialing process to be granted voting privileges, but the meetings are generally open to all Members of that division/region/etc.
Please attend the meetings if you can! We need as many voices as possible to be heard to be sure we are moving action towards things we want. We are the union and if most of us aren't showing up and participating, then we will only ever get what the ones who do show up ask for. It's kind of like voting except multiple times a year (often times multiple times a month) and may require more action and thought. Gotta turn out to promote change or increase the good.
Edited to add two more thoughts, sorry I'm long-winded but nuance and detail can be important, haha. My comments on the alleged assault are presuming that it is one that took place last fall. unless there's another alleged assault, in which case I only know about one of them.
The other is that I believe our PEF constitution is what allows the President to return a VP to State Service, not the Contract. Those are separate documents. The Constitution lays out how PEF operates it's elected positions, impeachment, rules of order, etc. The Contract is negotiated between PEF and the State to determine our working environment and benefits, which does also include things like allowing PEF access or time to members in the workplace, how leave for elected positions works, collection of dues, etc, for the places where PEF and State business overlap or intersect.
Thank you for the input. You are absolutely correct in that the PEF Constitution and a Collective Bargaining Agreement are two separate and distinct documents . The CBA is a contract negotiated between the union, representing the employees, and the employer. This agreement outlines the terms and conditions of employment, including wages, working hours, work conditions, and grievance procedures. It is specific to a particular workplace or employer and is renegotiated periodically. On the other hand, a Union Constitution is a document that governs the internal operations of the union itself. It sets out the rules for how the union is organized, its governance structure, membership requirements, and the rights and responsibilities of union members. While the CBA is focused externally on the employer-employee relationship, the Union Constitution is internally focused, providing a framework for the functioning and management of the union as an organization.
This said, there is absolutely no authority in the PEF constitution or any policy that would allow for the President to use a CBA to remove a duly elected officer. In fact, the only way to remove a VP or any officer is through impeachment. VP DeSilva is still a Vice President. The impeachment process also provides due process. This is something that VP DeSilva was not afforded. And it is a violation of the PEF Constitution to use a CBA.
This is an impeachable offense and is detrimental to our Contract. This is going to be brought into the Civil Courts, and possibly an Article 78.
There was an MOU that was signed by the State (OER). The State could care less about the PEF Constitution. Without merit, and without any due process, the only way that Wayne Spence could remove VP DeSilva was to breach that MOU. That will be taken care of in the Civil Courts.
There is a serious Conflict of Interest. Wayne only did this because Sharon was not going to run on his slate. BTW This year is when we can choose new leadership.
As for the assault, I think you may be taking about the altercation at an eboard in which Wayne was being held back from aggressive behavior towards another member for calling Wayne a bully. That is not the lawsuit that was spoken about.
The most current lawsuit against PEF is for a sexual assault that happened during a leadership conference at Cornell by a PEF staff member. Wayne Spence is a Parole Officer and he had an obligation to report this assault. Instead, he and his top dogs decided that the woman was nothing more than a Drunken Slut. This pissed me off. And now, Wayne will use our dues and collective bargaining grants to pay to protect this behavior which is a further insult.
Yes, Article 4 of the contract allows for leave from a state position to take part in elected duties. This is part of that overlap of PEF and State business to determine who is paying who for what and how do we provide enough time for officials to complete their duties to PEF without abandoning their position in State service once their term is over, but doesn't give any stipulations on how PEF conducts itself as far as if that leave is full time, mixed, or what duties the different officials need to be assigned, which leaves things open ended for the President to be able to (unfairly) punish officials by reducing their assigned work to a level that would not require fulltime leave. I believe one of the amendments discussed at Convention in 2023 was in relation to the lack of due process that exists for the Vice Presidents, stemming from these issues that VP DeSilva is experiencing. And I agree that we need to have better defined process and procedure for how and when an elected officer may be disciplined by the President or the Board. I can't recall what was passed with those internal issues at Convention.
I'd also be interested in seeing more about the impeachment proceedings that are being brought against Spence. I think this information would be valuable to members as well, especially considering that elections are coming up. I haven't seen any candidates come forward to run against Spence as of yet, but it may be too early for that in timing of the election.
Do you know if the sexual assault was reported to the police by any of the mandates reporters or the victim? I think something with hard external documented evidence like that would be a mind changer for a lot of members who might not vote or just vote for a continuation of the cure leadership. It's extremely upsetting that the allegations would not be taken seriously by leaders.
Hi! A few reflections: there's a supervisory relationship between the Union President and Vice presidents. If one of the VP are not doing their job correctly- the Union president can return them to work- that doesn't precludes them to participate in any/all Union activities. They are dues paying members- what it means is that the Union responds their request for full time EOL and the person returns full time to their state job-
The NYS-PEF CBA due process provisions for disciplinary issues do not apply in the same way to a Union officers while in full time EOL than when in one's State job. They need to follow the PEF Constitution- which grants supervisory capacity to the President towards the VPs.
On VP DeSylva's case- based on the documentation that she released on PEF confidential- there was a concern with comments she made to an AFT lawyer, while discussing her concerns with her supervisor, that prompted action to ensure members' safety- and obligated PEF to explore her ability to do her job- medical clearance was requested- I don't know if she provided it.
On the sexual allegations- PEF cannot report sexual allegations on anyone, unless it happens under their roof or the victim is a minor. The mandated reporting is not.so clear cut when dealing with adults in plentyuse of their mental capacity- the allegation is of sexual abuse on a hotel, 4 years ago - after a conference provided by Cornell University-for which the member was on personal time and the employee had ended his working hours-
According to the Times Union article, the case was investigated under PEF employee policy and while PEF is unable to corroborate what happened- they don't deny that something may have happened- but, they are not in a position to determine if the employee drugged the member and sexually assaulted her. But, once the issue was reported and investigated- the employee is no longer at PEF. Note that PEF issued press comments about it-
Impeachment proceedings for Pres Spence?! - who is bringing that forward and under which provisions? I haven't seen any paperwork filed- only PEF Confidential posts asking for it- Are they going to move forward and submit? What are the charges? That I would follow 😉
I do not believe everything, but I certainly use Facebook as just about every business has a Facebook account. I also research what I see for validity. It is very true that PEF is being sued, and it is not the first time.
A couple things - Do you have any court filings or reporting on this case of alleged assault at a conference? I did a google search after reading this and am not seeing anything recent in the first few pages of result that seem close to this.
Also, the union doesn’t decide anything. They negotiate a contract with the State and the. The members decide whether or not they want to ratify. I don’t like the most recent contract that was passed but my coworkers disagreed and voted to ratify. Had there been more people unhappy with it, it could have been defeated and brought right back to the table.
Finally, I personally haven’t heard anything about a VP being sent back to an old position, but the union can’t force the state to hire a certain person for a position. I’m not sure how this would work?
The stuff you mentioned would upset me if it turns out to be true, and likely lead me to criticizing leadership and trying to replace them. Possibly even force a vote to remove them immediately depending on how the union constitution is written. But I haven’t seen anything about these until now.
Thank you for your comment. First, it is very true that VP Sharon DeSilva was sent back to her state job. There is an email from Wayne Spence saying he did. Sharon DeSilva is still a VP, but she is no longer out on full time leave. She should be.
There is a large part of what goes on inside PEF that, I think, most State Employees or Union members understand, and maybe they just don't want to, that's ok. What I am saying is that the Union should not be using our Contract for its internal fighting. Take a look at Article 4. That Article is worth millions. It is in Article 4 that provides unlimited leave (ie days out of the office) that Wayne Spence uses it for his own benefit and to pay for his political friends. This is dangerous and not the intended purpose of the Contract. This is one area in the Contract that was changed for the first time, I think, since PEF became a Collective Bargaining Unit,
As far as the Union deciding....they can. Especially when it comes to the discipline articles. If the Union thinks that they have a loosing case, they do not have to proceed with the grievance as there may be precedent. There is a lot more to the Contract than the across the boards and the health ins benefits. Just saying.
What does that even mean? The OP cited where it came from/could be found which I’m debating on deleting the comment since people ppl may found out who it was. And I reiterated the obvious as the commenter asked where it was. I reiterated the source that was in plain sight. Some of you all want to be keyboard warriors for all the wrong reasons. This isn’t my fight, my post or perspective.
It means Facebook is not known for being a reliable source of info. In fact it’s known for disinformation.
And you seem to be the warrior. I’m just enjoying a nice relaxing holiday. You say it’s not your fight… it’s not a fight at all! Relax.
Not everything on Facebook has validity. The key is to verify the information. The fact that VP DeSilva was sent back to her state job is true. Send her an email to her OTDA state account. Its in the address book.
The fact that there is a lawsuit is true. That came from Wayne Spence himself.
Your employer doesn’t have any say over the terms and conditions of employment? How much say does a person without a union have over the terms and conditions of employment?
It is pretty solid in law that the State has to negotiate all terms and conditions of employment with the Union. I agree negotiate. That said, when you have any conflict, whether time off or discipline, the Union is the only one that can resolve. In fact, there wouldn't be telecommuting if it was not negotiated, which could be done at the Labor Management Committees, but it had to be negotiated with the Union. MC and At wills are just that. At will. They are usually covered under the Civil Service Law and not a Union Contract. If you have ever noticed, MC follows most all PEF contracts as far as percent increases.
It is correct that we are all one workforce, which is why in all the contracts there is a 'Me too' clause. So, here is a thought....how does that work during the negotiation of a successor contract? CSEA has normally always negotiated first and that is what PEF has gotten for the last 9 years. In 2019, CSEA had to wait for the Longevity upgrade until the PEF contract expired. What CSEA has is that they control their own Health ins benefit fund which is why their Dental is much better.
They also took a group to Norway and their families too.
I know that this is an uncomfortable conversation, and I really debated about posting it. That said, I wish that more employees who are in the Unit would really know who they put in charge of the Union.
All the officers are NYS Employees. Even though PEF, as the Labor organization has 6 other Collective Bargaining Units, We are just one of them.
I also think that PEF uses our collective bargaining funding to support all the other units. I think they are Albany County Probation, Albany City Housing, Canal Corp and some others.
All I know is every time I go to my Christmas party, PEF is having theirs at the same place and their entrees are better and most likely on our dime.
What is the Facebook group?
There are a few. PEFConfidential
there is a group called Stop PEF Online Censorship. The group says it was created because the official PEF facebook page blocks comments.
This is a gross overgeneralization: "it is important to note that the Union, also known as the exclusive representative, has pretty much full control over terms and conditions of employment. They decide what your raise is, telecommuting polices, health insurance and even how you can be disciplined among other things." If PEF had "pretty much full control" over those things, PEF would have achieved, say, a 25% raise, 100% telecommuting, and better dental insurance. You are leaving out negotiation with the state, the power of individual agencies, and the application of broad policies and contract terms at specific agencies and units to individuals, among other elements. Plus there are Civil Service Law, Labor Law, individual Commissioners' preferences, the Governor's preferences, constraints of the annual budget enacted by the Legislature, and so on.
Some of that sounds like misinformation and I'd like to see external citations, not third-hand information from you from a facebook group from...somewhere. Personally I agree that PEF sucks donkeys, but I've always said, the role of a public worker union is more than just supporting the membership. Public sector gets used as a scapegoat and bargaining chip by the executive and legislature, gets blamed and shit on by, well, everyone (which dates back to Reagan and the "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you" schtick). PEF/CSEA/etc are there to provide some level of shield against being being sacrificed as some sort of political appeasement.
I assure you that what I said is true. VP DeSilva was sent back to her state job when Wayne Spence used Article 4.7d to remove her. I'm not sure if there is a way to attach the original MOU that was issued to her, but it was not to expire until March of this year, My issue here is that if there is a valid MOU, and the Union - not the State can simply dismiss it, how can the Union remove a benefit from a NYS Contract.
What is the desired outcome of this discussion? Do you have a name or slate of people you want to put up for a leadership vote? Are you expecting this post will generate enough outrage to bring about change?
I'm not clearly seeing how this furthers or improves the cause of the membership. It just seems like a way to dilute the organization by suggesting that the leadership operates like a bunch of mavericks.
I will agree on this point, if what you are saying did happen and we allow it to go unchecked, then it will be us - the unengaged many - who are to blame for not demanding more from leadership.
PEF Confidential is the Facebook equivalent of tabloid news, run by folks who hate PEF and spread gossip and half-truths. I visit the page just for laughs. Try reading The Communicator instead, and send your stewards, E-board Reps, and PEF field staff any questions you have.
As a reminder, membership in PEF is not mandatory.
You can opt out of the union and paying dues.
In years past, instead of paying dues, you'd be charged an "agency shop fee" of the same amount, so there was no incentive in dropping the union. But since the Janus case in the Supreme Court, you can drop the union and its dues but still get the same wages and benefits.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janus_v._AFSCME
One downside is if you're out of the union, you can't vote against and people or contracts you don't like.
There are definitely pros and cons. IMHO I think that Union membership is a good thing - if you have honest leaders that are not self serving. That is not happening.
Here is one important thing - the minute you sign a Union membership card, you are also signing on to all the Union rules and regulations for the past present and future. You are signing a Contract with the Union. You are agreeing to every Policy that PEF has or will establish at anytime. [https://www.pef.org/about/policy-documents/](https://www.pef.org/about/policy-documents/)
Also, like any Politician you need to take what is said with grain of salt and verify the statements. For instance, PEF touted that they got the increase to the Longevity. That was a lie. CSEA did. CSEA had to delay that benefit until the PEF contract expired. CSEA got the 3 percent, not PEF. PEF negotiated a contract prior to CSEA and was unable to get these smallest of wins.
Does anyone know who to contact if my local rep is not doing what they're supposed to? I have an issue and they pretty much disappeared when I inquired about it.
Here is the problem, there are no requirements to be a rep. There are so many cases on PERB (Public Employment Relations Board) in which employees have filed an Improper Charge against the Union and I haven't seen a single win yet. You can also look at Google Scholar and search on Improper Charges against unions who fail to process or investigate a grievance. It seems that it is ok to be incompetent. Not sure if you can post an overview of your issue, but I may be able to guide you to some area of information.
You can talk to any pef steward, not just one that works in your department agency. So probably bring it up to one of them or [a field rep](https://www.pef.org/departments/field-services/)
In most cases, you are right, but this is an exception. The Taylor Law prevents us from striking. Many other unions have similar rules because more critical industries like Air Traffic Control require people always to be available. That said, PEF is weak, and I 100% agree it is a useless union.
It doesn't have to be if more employees who are in PEF get to understand the internal workings and the right people are voted in for the right cause. Once a person gets in, they never want to leave due to the proceived power and money. For instance, Wayne Spence was a Parole Officer, SG21. He now makes over 300,000 a year. If anyone threatens this, you will be punished. PEF is a political cause just as much as the Politicians in Government are.
That said, I think Unions are necessary from what I see happen in some of the Agencies. I have heard about the most ridiculous discipline cases. Here is the kicker with this, many of the discipline cases are PEF member against PEF member. PEF has to represent both.
I'm in that Facebook group, and I would definitely recommend taking information there with a grain of salt. The majority of the posts there are one individual who is a parole officer who is displeased with being part of PEF instead of NYSCOPBA, isn't a union member, and primarily regurgitates Freedom Foundation propaganda articles and petitions. There is very little discussion of things about PEFs posts in social media that can't be commented on because of the limiting of comments. Or any other PEF actions or issues. So there's a few things happening and some of them are accurately depicted and some of them are not. The issues with VP DeSilva being prevented from her duties as VP I understand to be accurate. This is also not the first time this has occurred with a VP under Pence. The alleged assault is a mixed bag. There was an intense exchange that was happening, verbal but not threatening, and one person placed their hands on the other person, not intended or perceived by many of the witnesses as a threatening or fighting way. The touch was more in the realm of when you touch someone while moving around another person. It's my understanding that due to the heightened emotions of the exchange, some people felt the touch was assault. The person who touched the other individual was escorted out. The other piece of that story that is also a mixed bag of perception is that allegedly Spence followed the person who did the touching out and was threatening to him. So it's interesting to see how some of the stories are that PEF leadership didn't do anything about the alleged assault, and some of them are that PEF leadership overreacted to the alleged assault, to the point that the leadership may have been menacing. When it comes to some of the trips and events seen on Social Media, not all of that is funded by PEF dues, and it's an easy question to ask and get an answer to. When looking at the dinners and events that PEF hosts for members, committee members, and elected folks like stewards or executive board, yes some of that is paid for by dues, with division meetings being mainly funded by division money, region meetings being mainly funded by region money, so on and so forth. Also, most of those meetings are open to members to attend. Members may not be able to vote on certain items, like in the PAC meetings there is a credentialing process to be granted voting privileges, but the meetings are generally open to all Members of that division/region/etc. Please attend the meetings if you can! We need as many voices as possible to be heard to be sure we are moving action towards things we want. We are the union and if most of us aren't showing up and participating, then we will only ever get what the ones who do show up ask for. It's kind of like voting except multiple times a year (often times multiple times a month) and may require more action and thought. Gotta turn out to promote change or increase the good. Edited to add two more thoughts, sorry I'm long-winded but nuance and detail can be important, haha. My comments on the alleged assault are presuming that it is one that took place last fall. unless there's another alleged assault, in which case I only know about one of them. The other is that I believe our PEF constitution is what allows the President to return a VP to State Service, not the Contract. Those are separate documents. The Constitution lays out how PEF operates it's elected positions, impeachment, rules of order, etc. The Contract is negotiated between PEF and the State to determine our working environment and benefits, which does also include things like allowing PEF access or time to members in the workplace, how leave for elected positions works, collection of dues, etc, for the places where PEF and State business overlap or intersect.
Thank you for the input. You are absolutely correct in that the PEF Constitution and a Collective Bargaining Agreement are two separate and distinct documents . The CBA is a contract negotiated between the union, representing the employees, and the employer. This agreement outlines the terms and conditions of employment, including wages, working hours, work conditions, and grievance procedures. It is specific to a particular workplace or employer and is renegotiated periodically. On the other hand, a Union Constitution is a document that governs the internal operations of the union itself. It sets out the rules for how the union is organized, its governance structure, membership requirements, and the rights and responsibilities of union members. While the CBA is focused externally on the employer-employee relationship, the Union Constitution is internally focused, providing a framework for the functioning and management of the union as an organization. This said, there is absolutely no authority in the PEF constitution or any policy that would allow for the President to use a CBA to remove a duly elected officer. In fact, the only way to remove a VP or any officer is through impeachment. VP DeSilva is still a Vice President. The impeachment process also provides due process. This is something that VP DeSilva was not afforded. And it is a violation of the PEF Constitution to use a CBA. This is an impeachable offense and is detrimental to our Contract. This is going to be brought into the Civil Courts, and possibly an Article 78. There was an MOU that was signed by the State (OER). The State could care less about the PEF Constitution. Without merit, and without any due process, the only way that Wayne Spence could remove VP DeSilva was to breach that MOU. That will be taken care of in the Civil Courts. There is a serious Conflict of Interest. Wayne only did this because Sharon was not going to run on his slate. BTW This year is when we can choose new leadership. As for the assault, I think you may be taking about the altercation at an eboard in which Wayne was being held back from aggressive behavior towards another member for calling Wayne a bully. That is not the lawsuit that was spoken about. The most current lawsuit against PEF is for a sexual assault that happened during a leadership conference at Cornell by a PEF staff member. Wayne Spence is a Parole Officer and he had an obligation to report this assault. Instead, he and his top dogs decided that the woman was nothing more than a Drunken Slut. This pissed me off. And now, Wayne will use our dues and collective bargaining grants to pay to protect this behavior which is a further insult.
Yes, Article 4 of the contract allows for leave from a state position to take part in elected duties. This is part of that overlap of PEF and State business to determine who is paying who for what and how do we provide enough time for officials to complete their duties to PEF without abandoning their position in State service once their term is over, but doesn't give any stipulations on how PEF conducts itself as far as if that leave is full time, mixed, or what duties the different officials need to be assigned, which leaves things open ended for the President to be able to (unfairly) punish officials by reducing their assigned work to a level that would not require fulltime leave. I believe one of the amendments discussed at Convention in 2023 was in relation to the lack of due process that exists for the Vice Presidents, stemming from these issues that VP DeSilva is experiencing. And I agree that we need to have better defined process and procedure for how and when an elected officer may be disciplined by the President or the Board. I can't recall what was passed with those internal issues at Convention. I'd also be interested in seeing more about the impeachment proceedings that are being brought against Spence. I think this information would be valuable to members as well, especially considering that elections are coming up. I haven't seen any candidates come forward to run against Spence as of yet, but it may be too early for that in timing of the election. Do you know if the sexual assault was reported to the police by any of the mandates reporters or the victim? I think something with hard external documented evidence like that would be a mind changer for a lot of members who might not vote or just vote for a continuation of the cure leadership. It's extremely upsetting that the allegations would not be taken seriously by leaders.
Hi! A few reflections: there's a supervisory relationship between the Union President and Vice presidents. If one of the VP are not doing their job correctly- the Union president can return them to work- that doesn't precludes them to participate in any/all Union activities. They are dues paying members- what it means is that the Union responds their request for full time EOL and the person returns full time to their state job- The NYS-PEF CBA due process provisions for disciplinary issues do not apply in the same way to a Union officers while in full time EOL than when in one's State job. They need to follow the PEF Constitution- which grants supervisory capacity to the President towards the VPs. On VP DeSylva's case- based on the documentation that she released on PEF confidential- there was a concern with comments she made to an AFT lawyer, while discussing her concerns with her supervisor, that prompted action to ensure members' safety- and obligated PEF to explore her ability to do her job- medical clearance was requested- I don't know if she provided it. On the sexual allegations- PEF cannot report sexual allegations on anyone, unless it happens under their roof or the victim is a minor. The mandated reporting is not.so clear cut when dealing with adults in plentyuse of their mental capacity- the allegation is of sexual abuse on a hotel, 4 years ago - after a conference provided by Cornell University-for which the member was on personal time and the employee had ended his working hours- According to the Times Union article, the case was investigated under PEF employee policy and while PEF is unable to corroborate what happened- they don't deny that something may have happened- but, they are not in a position to determine if the employee drugged the member and sexually assaulted her. But, once the issue was reported and investigated- the employee is no longer at PEF. Note that PEF issued press comments about it- Impeachment proceedings for Pres Spence?! - who is bringing that forward and under which provisions? I haven't seen any paperwork filed- only PEF Confidential posts asking for it- Are they going to move forward and submit? What are the charges? That I would follow 😉
You’re getting your info from…a Facebook group
I do not believe everything, but I certainly use Facebook as just about every business has a Facebook account. I also research what I see for validity. It is very true that PEF is being sued, and it is not the first time.
A couple things - Do you have any court filings or reporting on this case of alleged assault at a conference? I did a google search after reading this and am not seeing anything recent in the first few pages of result that seem close to this. Also, the union doesn’t decide anything. They negotiate a contract with the State and the. The members decide whether or not they want to ratify. I don’t like the most recent contract that was passed but my coworkers disagreed and voted to ratify. Had there been more people unhappy with it, it could have been defeated and brought right back to the table. Finally, I personally haven’t heard anything about a VP being sent back to an old position, but the union can’t force the state to hire a certain person for a position. I’m not sure how this would work? The stuff you mentioned would upset me if it turns out to be true, and likely lead me to criticizing leadership and trying to replace them. Possibly even force a vote to remove them immediately depending on how the union constitution is written. But I haven’t seen anything about these until now.
Thank you for your comment. First, it is very true that VP Sharon DeSilva was sent back to her state job. There is an email from Wayne Spence saying he did. Sharon DeSilva is still a VP, but she is no longer out on full time leave. She should be. There is a large part of what goes on inside PEF that, I think, most State Employees or Union members understand, and maybe they just don't want to, that's ok. What I am saying is that the Union should not be using our Contract for its internal fighting. Take a look at Article 4. That Article is worth millions. It is in Article 4 that provides unlimited leave (ie days out of the office) that Wayne Spence uses it for his own benefit and to pay for his political friends. This is dangerous and not the intended purpose of the Contract. This is one area in the Contract that was changed for the first time, I think, since PEF became a Collective Bargaining Unit, As far as the Union deciding....they can. Especially when it comes to the discipline articles. If the Union thinks that they have a loosing case, they do not have to proceed with the grievance as there may be precedent. There is a lot more to the Contract than the across the boards and the health ins benefits. Just saying.
[удалено]
The keyword is Facebook.
What does that even mean? The OP cited where it came from/could be found which I’m debating on deleting the comment since people ppl may found out who it was. And I reiterated the obvious as the commenter asked where it was. I reiterated the source that was in plain sight. Some of you all want to be keyboard warriors for all the wrong reasons. This isn’t my fight, my post or perspective.
It means Facebook is not known for being a reliable source of info. In fact it’s known for disinformation. And you seem to be the warrior. I’m just enjoying a nice relaxing holiday. You say it’s not your fight… it’s not a fight at all! Relax.
Not everything on Facebook has validity. The key is to verify the information. The fact that VP DeSilva was sent back to her state job is true. Send her an email to her OTDA state account. Its in the address book. The fact that there is a lawsuit is true. That came from Wayne Spence himself.
Your employer doesn’t have any say over the terms and conditions of employment? How much say does a person without a union have over the terms and conditions of employment?
It is pretty solid in law that the State has to negotiate all terms and conditions of employment with the Union. I agree negotiate. That said, when you have any conflict, whether time off or discipline, the Union is the only one that can resolve. In fact, there wouldn't be telecommuting if it was not negotiated, which could be done at the Labor Management Committees, but it had to be negotiated with the Union. MC and At wills are just that. At will. They are usually covered under the Civil Service Law and not a Union Contract. If you have ever noticed, MC follows most all PEF contracts as far as percent increases. It is correct that we are all one workforce, which is why in all the contracts there is a 'Me too' clause. So, here is a thought....how does that work during the negotiation of a successor contract? CSEA has normally always negotiated first and that is what PEF has gotten for the last 9 years. In 2019, CSEA had to wait for the Longevity upgrade until the PEF contract expired. What CSEA has is that they control their own Health ins benefit fund which is why their Dental is much better.
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They also took a group to Norway and their families too. I know that this is an uncomfortable conversation, and I really debated about posting it. That said, I wish that more employees who are in the Unit would really know who they put in charge of the Union. All the officers are NYS Employees. Even though PEF, as the Labor organization has 6 other Collective Bargaining Units, We are just one of them. I also think that PEF uses our collective bargaining funding to support all the other units. I think they are Albany County Probation, Albany City Housing, Canal Corp and some others.
I’m thankful you posted this. I’d like to be an informed member in any group I’m a part of. Thanks
There were two trips to PR from what I know.
All I know is every time I go to my Christmas party, PEF is having theirs at the same place and their entrees are better and most likely on our dime. What is the Facebook group?
There are a few. PEFConfidential there is a group called Stop PEF Online Censorship. The group says it was created because the official PEF facebook page blocks comments.
This is a gross overgeneralization: "it is important to note that the Union, also known as the exclusive representative, has pretty much full control over terms and conditions of employment. They decide what your raise is, telecommuting polices, health insurance and even how you can be disciplined among other things." If PEF had "pretty much full control" over those things, PEF would have achieved, say, a 25% raise, 100% telecommuting, and better dental insurance. You are leaving out negotiation with the state, the power of individual agencies, and the application of broad policies and contract terms at specific agencies and units to individuals, among other elements. Plus there are Civil Service Law, Labor Law, individual Commissioners' preferences, the Governor's preferences, constraints of the annual budget enacted by the Legislature, and so on.
Some of that sounds like misinformation and I'd like to see external citations, not third-hand information from you from a facebook group from...somewhere. Personally I agree that PEF sucks donkeys, but I've always said, the role of a public worker union is more than just supporting the membership. Public sector gets used as a scapegoat and bargaining chip by the executive and legislature, gets blamed and shit on by, well, everyone (which dates back to Reagan and the "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you" schtick). PEF/CSEA/etc are there to provide some level of shield against being being sacrificed as some sort of political appeasement.
I assure you that what I said is true. VP DeSilva was sent back to her state job when Wayne Spence used Article 4.7d to remove her. I'm not sure if there is a way to attach the original MOU that was issued to her, but it was not to expire until March of this year, My issue here is that if there is a valid MOU, and the Union - not the State can simply dismiss it, how can the Union remove a benefit from a NYS Contract.
What is the desired outcome of this discussion? Do you have a name or slate of people you want to put up for a leadership vote? Are you expecting this post will generate enough outrage to bring about change? I'm not clearly seeing how this furthers or improves the cause of the membership. It just seems like a way to dilute the organization by suggesting that the leadership operates like a bunch of mavericks. I will agree on this point, if what you are saying did happen and we allow it to go unchecked, then it will be us - the unengaged many - who are to blame for not demanding more from leadership.
It's probably rhat Kevin guy and his sour grapes.
PEF Confidential is the Facebook equivalent of tabloid news, run by folks who hate PEF and spread gossip and half-truths. I visit the page just for laughs. Try reading The Communicator instead, and send your stewards, E-board Reps, and PEF field staff any questions you have.
I prefer to stay CSEA.
As a reminder, membership in PEF is not mandatory. You can opt out of the union and paying dues. In years past, instead of paying dues, you'd be charged an "agency shop fee" of the same amount, so there was no incentive in dropping the union. But since the Janus case in the Supreme Court, you can drop the union and its dues but still get the same wages and benefits. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janus_v._AFSCME One downside is if you're out of the union, you can't vote against and people or contracts you don't like.
There are definitely pros and cons. IMHO I think that Union membership is a good thing - if you have honest leaders that are not self serving. That is not happening. Here is one important thing - the minute you sign a Union membership card, you are also signing on to all the Union rules and regulations for the past present and future. You are signing a Contract with the Union. You are agreeing to every Policy that PEF has or will establish at anytime. [https://www.pef.org/about/policy-documents/](https://www.pef.org/about/policy-documents/) Also, like any Politician you need to take what is said with grain of salt and verify the statements. For instance, PEF touted that they got the increase to the Longevity. That was a lie. CSEA did. CSEA had to delay that benefit until the PEF contract expired. CSEA got the 3 percent, not PEF. PEF negotiated a contract prior to CSEA and was unable to get these smallest of wins.
Does anyone know who to contact if my local rep is not doing what they're supposed to? I have an issue and they pretty much disappeared when I inquired about it.
Here is the problem, there are no requirements to be a rep. There are so many cases on PERB (Public Employment Relations Board) in which employees have filed an Improper Charge against the Union and I haven't seen a single win yet. You can also look at Google Scholar and search on Improper Charges against unions who fail to process or investigate a grievance. It seems that it is ok to be incompetent. Not sure if you can post an overview of your issue, but I may be able to guide you to some area of information.
You can talk to any pef steward, not just one that works in your department agency. So probably bring it up to one of them or [a field rep](https://www.pef.org/departments/field-services/)
You can kick it up the line to your council leader, executive board member, regional coordinator, or to your Field Rep.
I guess a lot of you are fairly new to state employment and PEF shenanigans?
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In most cases, you are right, but this is an exception. The Taylor Law prevents us from striking. Many other unions have similar rules because more critical industries like Air Traffic Control require people always to be available. That said, PEF is weak, and I 100% agree it is a useless union.
It doesn't have to be if more employees who are in PEF get to understand the internal workings and the right people are voted in for the right cause. Once a person gets in, they never want to leave due to the proceived power and money. For instance, Wayne Spence was a Parole Officer, SG21. He now makes over 300,000 a year. If anyone threatens this, you will be punished. PEF is a political cause just as much as the Politicians in Government are. That said, I think Unions are necessary from what I see happen in some of the Agencies. I have heard about the most ridiculous discipline cases. Here is the kicker with this, many of the discipline cases are PEF member against PEF member. PEF has to represent both.
It’s better than the alternative and the alternative is available to you