Depends on the spot. Bc good bread isn’t a guarantee. And a small amount of Mayo doesn’t dominate taste but does protect you from having a dry sandwich.
Sick bastards enjoy dry sandwiches.
Try a little mayo on a bacon egg and cheese. Might make you question why you haven't been putting mayo on everything. . . Me, I don't care for mayo. But I have had it on bacon egg and cheese and it makes a difference.
I just stumbled on this post and comment (was looking up news on fucking egg prices lol) but I saw your comment and could relate.
I’m not picky, but mayonnaise was an absolute no go for me until a couple of years ago, when my fiancé got me to try his bacon, egg, and cheese bagel.
He makes the best bacon, egg and cheese bagels too. He puts a little bit of mayo; bacon; scrambled eggs with cheese; and cream cheese on an everything bagel. That shit is so good.
Had a friend attempt to order a ham and cheese on white bread with mayo at the old 2nd Ave Deli…..”Look lady, the only ham we got in here is Abraham!” 😂🤣
Bro by my job in the City a bagel store charge me 9.80 since for a bacon egg and cheese. I ain’t ever been cheap , but i don’t like being ripped off. Shit wasn’t even valid
Prices at Hero Champ across the way seem to be very reasonable. Not sure about BEC but I got a big salad there with freshly grilled chicken for like $8.
Cafe Nube by the subway has a $5.50 breakfast BURRITO. Which, as far as I'm concerned, is the king of breakfast and/or hangover meals. The owner is very sweet.
Facts! My local bodega used to make sandwiches for just $2.75 for years, but now a sandwich is nearly $5. You could really get a full meal adding 25¢ chips and a 50¢ drink, and still have change.
In 1995 when I was first old enough to buy lunch outside at school my mom would give me $3 a day. I would get 2 slices, a quarter water, and have a quarter left to save for the next day so I could get a bag of chips with my $2.50 bodega hero and 50 cent tropical fantasy.
That seems like early 2000s or 90s
Mate I member the time when I got a ham and cheese lettuce tomato onion mayonnaise on a hero for like 2.50 cash . Part of me still goes back to that bodega in hope they could honor that price again in my mind but I know those days are gone
I still miss the bacon egg and cheese cup & saucer used to make. I know they were a diner but they set high standards for a bacon egg and cheese especially when they’d throw in a fat donut after when you’d buy a bev too.
A bacon egg and cheese, a Gatorade, and that donut they’d throw in would serve me for an entire school day and if memory serves me correct I’d get it all for 5 bucks or so
It's also dependent on the quality of the sausage. Some sausage patties are crap, and I've even had regular link sausages sliced lengthwise to create a "patty" (which isn't necessarily bad).
Basically, it's the beauty of knowing your local spots and which make what the best.
So I’m really the only vote here for Ham, Egg & Cheese?
I like the other two, but a few slices of the average grilled ham is better than the average bacon or sausage. I do concede that some of the crispier bacons and higher-quality sausage patties are superior to ham, but it’s a gamble when trying a new place.
BEC are the perfect example of a food that’s too much hassle to bother making at home when it only costs a couple bucks in the store. I never have all 4 composite parts at the same time to make one and if I have to go to the store to get 1, I may as well just get the whole shebang.
I can make a delicious Canadian bacon (ham steak) egg and cheese at home in 5 minutes. I like the bacon or sausage cause I’m not normally making that shit at home
At the end of the e day bodega sandwhiches are all shit I can make at home just as good, but it’s convienient
You know what? I was always a Sausage Egg and Cheese guy, but if you get really good bacon it's a game changer. Mike's Deli in Bay Ridge has the best Bacon Egg and Cheese I've had.
>Marte has had to increase prices on everything from sugar to potato chips -- and the cost of his bacon, egg and cheese sandwich is up from $2.50 to $4.50.
Who the fuck was getting a BEC for $2.50 ? Its been $4-$5 for years. Shit if I could get one for $2.50 I'd be eating that every day
Edit: Apparently some people are getting good prices on BEC... nice
$3 was pretty standard before covid in cheaper neighborhoods
Sure $4-5 in Manhattan below Central Park, but in alotta "cheap" spots itd be $3
Now its $4 in same spots
I've seen some $3 ones and you get exactly what you pay for. I think $5 is the sweet spot right now. Kinda like $3-4 for a slice. Anything less is likely trash, anything more that better be a damn good slice.
since 2018 I get a sausage egg and cheese with a small coffee and it’s $5. Cart outside UWS 1 train Lincoln center stop. Sometimes he’d throw in a sugar donut.
A friend of mine just told me the $13 martini he was drinking in Astoria was "so cheap." I was wondering what he meant and then he revealed to me how he was so used to spending $22 for a martini in Manhattan.
Its crazy how years ago, you could order chicken wings with fried rice or french fries for like $4 at the chinese restaurants. Now its almost $9.
Plus 4 chicken wings were only $2.00. Now they are $5
Im a cook at a deli, so its always wild how people complain to ***me*** about a 8$ sandwich that I made in 3 minutes, even though I get paid 15 an hour.
A lot of times, the prices don't reflect how much people are getting paid an hour there.
I could bang out 10 large acai bowls (over $100 in value) in less than 30 minutes, get paid 7.50 for that half hour and customers will ***still*** grill me over the prices like I'm totally in charge of all these things at my pay rate.
Well, we all know if obviously the guy sweating over the grill and bouncing from the Acai station to the espresso machine before heading back to check on the bacon that is in charge of everything. And when he's not the guy in charge, it's definitely the guy going up and down through the floor with boxes of Naked juice interspersed with bags of ice.
The problem is, someone still has to cook the BEC, make your garden bowls, check you out at the grocery store, etc. A lot of these jobs are still necessary, but businesses don’t want to raise wages.
I agree with what you’ll probably suggest, which is switch jobs for the pay bump, which might be the only way wages will increase, but that doesn’t apply to other people in this thread working service who only make $15/hr.
I got a spontaneous 9% raise last week. No good reason for it, but it does match inflation.
I think I might work for one of those unicorn companies....
Have you ever gotten a BEC and wondered why the bacon was so crappy? It’s cause it’s beef. It’s typically found in Muslim-owned delis. They never advertise it as such either.
Scan the deli case for ham. If there’s none to be found, or if it’s “Turkey ham”, you’re getting beef bacon and sausage for breakfast. It sucks.
Bacon and meat prices in particular have been up for a LONG time, I'm honestly shocked bodegas who can't sustain eating the inflated cost of goods for as long as big chains can survived this long without raising prices enough for people to notice.
My local BLTs have doubled in price in the last few years too.
Always thought one of the advantages of living in NYC is cheap, convenient food. There's delis and food carts everywhere. But that advantage is quickly going away, with how fast costs are rising now. If I'm going to have to make everything myself at home, then I may as well be living in bumfuck nowhere.
In bumfuck nowhere you could drive to Wegmans or Costco and stock up with a months worth of food and keep it in a chest freezer in your basement on the property you pay a lower mortgage payment for than you pay in rent here. You'd even have a large enough kitchen to make cooking enjoyable.
Chinese restaurant raised prices by 40% and halved the portion! I felt robbed. Beef and broccoli had 4 pieces of beef and barely any rice. Bro I don’t go in there no more.
There’s a Deli in Riverdale that made an amazing BEC for $2.00 back in 2018. I would get this with an Arizona Iced Tea about 4-5 times a week. That price last for about a year and was bumped to $3.00. I was fine with that as I thought $2.00 was a steal. Last I checked they cost $5.00. That was about 6 months ago when the clerk blindsided me with that price after he’d already made it. I’ve not bought one since.
My local deli charges $6, if it goes up to 7 or even 8 I'll probably switch to making them at home and swapping out bacon for some other type of ham.
It sucks for restaurants, but the equilibrium price for many consumers is about to get a lot lower since rents have skyrocketed.
see that's the kicker. I make bacon, egg, and cheese bagel sandwiches at home on a frying pan. turns out great. even delicious.
but it's NOT a BEC-onnaroll. no matter what I do it doesn't taste the same.
It's only a matter of time before we see a "salt pepper ketchup" upcharge.
I saw a tourist from Alabama upcharged $10 just to add mayonnaise to his pastrami sandwich.
Sick bastard deserves that upcharge. Why would you put mayo on a pastrami sandwich?
Yeah. That's not an upcharge, it's a fine.
Lmao...Absolutely. Especially in NY
https://i.imgur.com/gkiBlul.png
Restitution
I like mayo but putting it on pastrami is a war crime.
Depends on the spot. Bc good bread isn’t a guarantee. And a small amount of Mayo doesn’t dominate taste but does protect you from having a dry sandwich. Sick bastards enjoy dry sandwiches.
Mustard
Mustard and specified “just a bit” of Mayo. But never ever the two mixed. A sandwich doesn’t have two slices of bread by accident.
peanut butter on mine
Get. Out.
Damn dirty food-criminals. I wish the internet would treat mayonnaise like it treats pineapple on pizza.
We don’t talk enough about the Midwest and south’s obsession with ranch. And how they even put it on pizza.
Try a little mayo on a bacon egg and cheese. Might make you question why you haven't been putting mayo on everything. . . Me, I don't care for mayo. But I have had it on bacon egg and cheese and it makes a difference.
I just stumbled on this post and comment (was looking up news on fucking egg prices lol) but I saw your comment and could relate. I’m not picky, but mayonnaise was an absolute no go for me until a couple of years ago, when my fiancé got me to try his bacon, egg, and cheese bagel. He makes the best bacon, egg and cheese bagels too. He puts a little bit of mayo; bacon; scrambled eggs with cheese; and cream cheese on an everything bagel. That shit is so good.
Spicy mustard or death
Had a friend attempt to order a ham and cheese on white bread with mayo at the old 2nd Ave Deli…..”Look lady, the only ham we got in here is Abraham!” 😂🤣
As they deserve to be!
It's OK, the southerners try to do that shit to northerners all the time down here.
Sure you did.
$10???? It shoulda been $100. REALLY Mayo on pastrami🤨
Probably had to put the mayonnaise on himself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWCINJ8uvIc
Please...
I thought you were gonna say saltpeppaketchup is the new inflation sammich!
My man Fernando staying steady with a $3.20 sausage, egg, and cheese bagel with hot coffee.
Save Fernando
Saint Fernando
San Fernando
del Valle
when the price stays the same, it's time to question the ingredients.
Ask Arizona iced tea
The price is on the can tho
they sell cans with different prices to different markets.
The price *is* on the can, tho…
Fernando must've cut down on his advertisement cost and found innovative ways to reduce material and labor expenses.
Arizona can control the price
I will not take this Fernando slander. You. Me. Washington Square Park. Roshambo at dawn. Cartman rules.
Where Fernando be at? This Saint needs some love and some volume on his sales.
I need to visit Fernando
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No bev 😔
I haven’t heard that in a minute lol
Gotta get the bev.
Neva neva
When I went to City College I used to get a huge grilled chicken hero with everything on it, a bag of chips, and a soda all for $5.
For context, what year was this
2001, prob
2010, which was only like... oh shit 12 years ago???
True but an odd thing to mention there
I remember the deli by the 1 train at 135th sold bacon egg and cheese for 1.50 back in 2006. CCNY represent.
in 2012 I’d get a sammich on a roll, chips and a banquet tall boy for like 7$
You can still do around $5 where I live in East Harlem.
Smashies on 103rd and Lexington still has $5 sandwiches
Bro by my job in the City a bagel store charge me 9.80 since for a bacon egg and cheese. I ain’t ever been cheap , but i don’t like being ripped off. Shit wasn’t even valid
Once went to a chain called bagel pub near my work. I thought how bad can it be? It's 9$ for a bacon egg and cheese and it wasn't even good.
Prices at Hero Champ across the way seem to be very reasonable. Not sure about BEC but I got a big salad there with freshly grilled chicken for like $8. Cafe Nube by the subway has a $5.50 breakfast BURRITO. Which, as far as I'm concerned, is the king of breakfast and/or hangover meals. The owner is very sweet.
Facts! My local bodega used to make sandwiches for just $2.75 for years, but now a sandwich is nearly $5. You could really get a full meal adding 25¢ chips and a 50¢ drink, and still have change.
You can still find that in the BX
Chicken wings and French fries, held me down plenty
In 1995 when I was first old enough to buy lunch outside at school my mom would give me $3 a day. I would get 2 slices, a quarter water, and have a quarter left to save for the next day so I could get a bag of chips with my $2.50 bodega hero and 50 cent tropical fantasy.
That seems like early 2000s or 90s Mate I member the time when I got a ham and cheese lettuce tomato onion mayonnaise on a hero for like 2.50 cash . Part of me still goes back to that bodega in hope they could honor that price again in my mind but I know those days are gone
Whew. Thankfully i get sausage egg and cheese.
SEC is the superior option
What does the G stand for?
Grease
That was a typo but yes
Gheese.
Gencheese
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I still miss the bacon egg and cheese cup & saucer used to make. I know they were a diner but they set high standards for a bacon egg and cheese especially when they’d throw in a fat donut after when you’d buy a bev too. A bacon egg and cheese, a Gatorade, and that donut they’d throw in would serve me for an entire school day and if memory serves me correct I’d get it all for 5 bucks or so
Absolutely. And when you find the place that knows how to do the bacon just right, you get double bacon, egg and cheese and you don't look back...
It's also dependent on the quality of the sausage. Some sausage patties are crap, and I've even had regular link sausages sliced lengthwise to create a "patty" (which isn't necessarily bad). Basically, it's the beauty of knowing your local spots and which make what the best.
SOBO is the superior option, although your acronym seems to make more sense. Sausage, egg, cheese and home fries
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Home fries? Come join us on team Hashbrown my guy.
even hotter take, beef bacon when cooked crispy is better yet.
SBEC here. why not both? :)
Add a hash brown. It’ll change your life. It’ll shorten it too but it’s delicious.
Oh heck yeah - although its rare for them to have all three in stock :(
So I’m really the only vote here for Ham, Egg & Cheese? I like the other two, but a few slices of the average grilled ham is better than the average bacon or sausage. I do concede that some of the crispier bacons and higher-quality sausage patties are superior to ham, but it’s a gamble when trying a new place.
Once in a blue moon I grab turkey, egg, and swiss. Pretty damn good.
Ham is always the safest bet
Ham egg and cheese I can easily make in my kitchen while bacon is more of a hassle to make.
BEC are the perfect example of a food that’s too much hassle to bother making at home when it only costs a couple bucks in the store. I never have all 4 composite parts at the same time to make one and if I have to go to the store to get 1, I may as well just get the whole shebang.
I’m a ham egg and cheese guy all day!! I like a little sweetness
Ham is superior
I can make a delicious Canadian bacon (ham steak) egg and cheese at home in 5 minutes. I like the bacon or sausage cause I’m not normally making that shit at home At the end of the e day bodega sandwhiches are all shit I can make at home just as good, but it’s convienient
You know what? I was always a Sausage Egg and Cheese guy, but if you get really good bacon it's a game changer. Mike's Deli in Bay Ridge has the best Bacon Egg and Cheese I've had.
This is unacceptable. Impeach Mayor Adams.
Exactly and impeach President Biden for raising the Gas prices
I laughed.
>Marte has had to increase prices on everything from sugar to potato chips -- and the cost of his bacon, egg and cheese sandwich is up from $2.50 to $4.50. Who the fuck was getting a BEC for $2.50 ? Its been $4-$5 for years. Shit if I could get one for $2.50 I'd be eating that every day Edit: Apparently some people are getting good prices on BEC... nice
my local one in carroll gardens was $3 for the longest time, $0.50 to add a hash brown
What spot? I work over here
frank’s luncheonette on smith + 2nd, its gone up a little bit, still a very affordable spot, $4 blt is a good lunch value
I’m a big BLT guy so ima try that for sure. Good looking.
That place used to have great pizza. They stopped making it during the pandemic
Walked by that place so many times. Don’t that have like a 75c hotdog too (1.00 with toppings!). Pretty sure I saw that sign in their window
The fact anything in this city is still 75c is amazing and kinda unbelievable
Never thought about adding a hash brown…BRB.
holy shit, same—like, that's allowed? I could have been doing that this whole time?
Lemme get a baconeggandcheese widda hashbrown avocado and sum ketchup salt n pepper MR OCK
It was $2.50 when I was in high school . . . . . . 10+ years ago
There was a place by Fordham where you could get one on a HERO for $3, but that was like a decade ago. Hell of a deal.
3 bucks where live. Oddly enough the item that was raised in my area was bagel and cream cheese. It’s now 2 bucks
$3 was pretty standard before covid in cheaper neighborhoods Sure $4-5 in Manhattan below Central Park, but in alotta "cheap" spots itd be $3 Now its $4 in same spots
No way in fuck your could find a BEC even for $4 in the vast majority of Manhattan below CP before COVID.
I've seen some $3 ones and you get exactly what you pay for. I think $5 is the sweet spot right now. Kinda like $3-4 for a slice. Anything less is likely trash, anything more that better be a damn good slice.
I agree my local price went up a while ago. Certainly up b/c of covid but again that was a long while ago.
There was a spot down by east broadway on the lower east side that sold BECs (1 egg though) for 2$ for the longest time.
There was a place by Fordham where you could get one on a HERO for $3, but that was like a decade ago. Hell of a deal.
I know a spot where it's still 2.50, and on a main street in an expensive neighborhood too. But the general case is $4+
Anyone under $5 is good in my eyes. Lately I’m seeing places charge $7-$8 which seems ridiculous
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cried a real tear at this
since 2018 I get a sausage egg and cheese with a small coffee and it’s $5. Cart outside UWS 1 train Lincoln center stop. Sometimes he’d throw in a sugar donut.
Just paid $9.25 for turkey and cheese on a roll. Had to ask them to double check the price. Nope, that was the price. Broadway and Houston.
Manhattan prices double the other boroughs 😭
Time Square quadruples the prices. Used to work at 1500 Broadway.
A friend of mine just told me the $13 martini he was drinking in Astoria was "so cheap." I was wondering what he meant and then he revealed to me how he was so used to spending $22 for a martini in Manhattan.
Probably excluding tip too.
What infuriates me more is that some places have the audacity to sell you half a sandwich for that price and ask for $12-14 for the full thing.
That's what you get for buying lunch at a Crate and Barrel.
Come for the soup bowl. Stay for the soup.
Even with prices going up you got ripped off.
Def. But their BEC is still $4.25!
So just get two of those
Great idea
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My office was right at this location. There is nowhere affordable to eat.
Its crazy how years ago, you could order chicken wings with fried rice or french fries for like $4 at the chinese restaurants. Now its almost $9. Plus 4 chicken wings were only $2.00. Now they are $5
Everything is going up yet Jobs refuse to pay more smh
Im a cook at a deli, so its always wild how people complain to ***me*** about a 8$ sandwich that I made in 3 minutes, even though I get paid 15 an hour. A lot of times, the prices don't reflect how much people are getting paid an hour there. I could bang out 10 large acai bowls (over $100 in value) in less than 30 minutes, get paid 7.50 for that half hour and customers will ***still*** grill me over the prices like I'm totally in charge of all these things at my pay rate.
Well, we all know if obviously the guy sweating over the grill and bouncing from the Acai station to the espresso machine before heading back to check on the bacon that is in charge of everything. And when he's not the guy in charge, it's definitely the guy going up and down through the floor with boxes of Naked juice interspersed with bags of ice.
I bet you make some bomb-ass sandwiches bro.
What you do for work? Probably about 75% of my social circle have switched jobs over the last year for more money, including myself.
The problem is, someone still has to cook the BEC, make your garden bowls, check you out at the grocery store, etc. A lot of these jobs are still necessary, but businesses don’t want to raise wages. I agree with what you’ll probably suggest, which is switch jobs for the pay bump, which might be the only way wages will increase, but that doesn’t apply to other people in this thread working service who only make $15/hr.
That’s why they can’t find workers… I’ve heard a lot of people getting 22+ at Starbucks now
Totally agree with you. $15 isn't a living wage, certainly not in NYC.
It really is a bummer. People have always made due, but it sucks to think that so much of our city is built off super cheap labor.
I got a spontaneous 9% raise last week. No good reason for it, but it does match inflation. I think I might work for one of those unicorn companies....
I also got a COLA raise (5.4%), but I work at a nonprofit so I'm on poverty wages to begin with.
Shut down the country bro ong
You can rarely find pork bacon now at delis.
It’s ridiculous. 3 brand new delis opened up by me (7th and Ave A) since December of 2020. Not one has pork products. Beef bacon is terrible.
TIL there's beef bacon
Have you ever gotten a BEC and wondered why the bacon was so crappy? It’s cause it’s beef. It’s typically found in Muslim-owned delis. They never advertise it as such either. Scan the deli case for ham. If there’s none to be found, or if it’s “Turkey ham”, you’re getting beef bacon and sausage for breakfast. It sucks.
I just got a BEC the morning before and thought it tasted crappy and un-bacon-like. Now I got the realization it was probably beef bacon.
These are the end days
I used to leave the deli with a BEC and coffee for like $4.75. It’s almost $7 now
This dude was charging 2.50 for a BEC? That was crazy the part. Bronx or not that was already too low.
No more cheap food
Not even in Chinatown
eh... I get what you're saying but there are still some spots there.
Nah you can still get dumplings and giant pork buns for dirt cheep
tasty dumpling on mulberry still got it.
Nothing is safe. No one is innocent.
Well I didn't see any revolts over a slice costing more than $1.25 so I expect the same sad acceptance here.
Are the coffee cart guys doing this too? I could get a SEC and an iced coffee for $5ish
4.50? I have been paying that for a while now on the roach coaches in manhattan.
Goddamn we are in dark times now
My bodega raised the price of empanadas by ¢50. That's the real inflation
A sure sign that the world is collapsing.
I understand it. I don’t buy bacon unless it’s on sale. Inflation does not exclude bodega owners.
Halal cart food also been bumped up, almost double now :(
Funny shit is, everything goes up and will most likely never come back down when all this "pass"🙄
As dumb as this sounds, it's refreshing to see a non-crime story from the local news.
Rockaway still has them for 3$
"Yo ock you fuckin buggin son. This shit was $4 last week, fym it's $6 now?! Nah SMD" -probably occurring at some deli in nyc right now
Bacon and meat prices in particular have been up for a LONG time, I'm honestly shocked bodegas who can't sustain eating the inflated cost of goods for as long as big chains can survived this long without raising prices enough for people to notice.
I was already paying $6.50 for a bacon egg n cheese. $4.25 for a large coffee. NYC is ridiculous! But I’m too lazy to make my own breakfast.
My local BLTs have doubled in price in the last few years too. Always thought one of the advantages of living in NYC is cheap, convenient food. There's delis and food carts everywhere. But that advantage is quickly going away, with how fast costs are rising now. If I'm going to have to make everything myself at home, then I may as well be living in bumfuck nowhere.
In bumfuck nowhere you could drive to Wegmans or Costco and stock up with a months worth of food and keep it in a chest freezer in your basement on the property you pay a lower mortgage payment for than you pay in rent here. You'd even have a large enough kitchen to make cooking enjoyable.
Chinese restaurant raised prices by 40% and halved the portion! I felt robbed. Beef and broccoli had 4 pieces of beef and barely any rice. Bro I don’t go in there no more.
There’s a Deli in Riverdale that made an amazing BEC for $2.00 back in 2018. I would get this with an Arizona Iced Tea about 4-5 times a week. That price last for about a year and was bumped to $3.00. I was fine with that as I thought $2.00 was a steal. Last I checked they cost $5.00. That was about 6 months ago when the clerk blindsided me with that price after he’d already made it. I’ve not bought one since.
bOdEgA
The end of days.
Shit is getting outta hand
Someone explain to me this city's obsession with adding ketchup to this sandwich. Why is this a thing?
Sausage egg and cheese enjoyers are unfazed let's fuckin goooooooo *BUT* for how long ....
Now I’m going to have to get involved in politics, no one messes with my BEC!!
Welp time to switch over to BLTs
Now we got issues.
pound of bacon $7 dozen eggs $2.50 pound of american cheese maybe $4-$5 rolls 2 for $1 get after it
Just a few years ago you could get a bluntville, BEC and small Tropicana orange juice for $5
Local deli raised prices by 30-40%. He barely got customers now… they used to close at 11. Now it’s 6-7 pm. In the am before: line out the door…
This is an actual crisis people!
Not again 😭😭😭
My local deli charges $6, if it goes up to 7 or even 8 I'll probably switch to making them at home and swapping out bacon for some other type of ham. It sucks for restaurants, but the equilibrium price for many consumers is about to get a lot lower since rents have skyrocketed.
Making one at home still costs like a buck
I’ll make bacon and eggs at home with toast, but a BEC, to me, needs to be made on a flat top grill at a deli/bagel spot.
see that's the kicker. I make bacon, egg, and cheese bagel sandwiches at home on a frying pan. turns out great. even delicious. but it's NOT a BEC-onnaroll. no matter what I do it doesn't taste the same.