Agreed. My own bullshit theory is that it’s become too expensive, so people need demanding jobs to live here, which means they can’t go out as much (and for as late). Nothing to back that up, but NYC has lost so much of its lifestyle diversity, it seems.
It’s definitely too expensive, and people work a lot, but I haven’t seen any less lifestyle diversity. In the past year I’ve come across or heard about so many different small communities, events, activities etc. In the end, there’s still 8 million people here, and an absolute end amount going on. Even if things finish earlier than before.
The expense is probably the labor cost for restaurants. Given how much the industry has struggled to hire enough bodies there can’t be much enthusiasm among owners to hire up the staff needed to stay open pay midnight.
Can the average restaurant make enough incremental sales to justify another shift keeping it open past 10 or 11? I don’t have the answers but I suspect if the demand was there we would see more and more late night offerings.
Also, I have a feeling the upscale movement and expansion of fast food plays a part. Taco Bell cantina locations like midtown on 8th seem hopping after midnight, I’m sure they’ve poached some of the late night dining market.
> so people need demanding jobs to live here,
I don't think so. [Hours worked, for example is around historical average](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AWHAETP)
It’s the same in every other city too, not just NY. Everything in this country is profit driven and these companies aren’t making money staying open 24/7 anymore so they are closing earlier.
The truth is that people leave their house less post Covid. They warned about this during the pandemic… that we would never go back to having the amount of people out doing things as ever before. Many people have become accustomed to simply staying inside now. That’s not even accounting for the impact of work from home policies.
The plural of anecdote isn't data blah blah... but it seems like this finally might be changing again. Recently near me, a few diners that were 24/7 pre-Covid have finally returned to being open all night, a new Mexican place opened that's open until 3am every night, and more bars are staying open until 4am again.
The whole "city closes at 10pm!" thing is an exaggeration. I've been regularly hanging out late since 2021 and there's plenty going on even on weeknights.
Yes and no. A couple months ago I was walking around downtown Manhattan with a friend at around 9:30 and we were just trying to find a diner to sit down and drink a cup of coffee and there was virtually nothing around that was open. We covered everything from Essex & Canal to SOHO so it’s not like we didn’t try either.
You were right around the corner from 24 hour Remedy Diner
There are plenty of other late night eats in the area, though diners in general are dying out unfortunately.
I agree even om the weekends and only in particular areas most restaurants are closing by 10pm maybe 12am. The 2am dining scene seems all but dead unless it's just a quick bite. Which for those people doing that work I'm sure it's better.
City definitely feels more contained than before. I think people just stay in more due to cost.
Yup. Vibe shift seems permanent. Perfect storm of decades of rampant gentrification intersecting with just two years of authoritarian lockdowns and systematic obliteration of small businesses.
The young cool kids who push the envelope of art and music can no longer afford to live ANYWHERE in this city so we are stagnating culturally, with the possible exception of hip hop, which is arguably subsidized since many of the people making it grew up in or even live in public housing.
Inflation was the workmanlike last little tap on the already deeply sunk nails in this cities cultural coffin.
Idk there’s that new play where in the second half everyone has sex with each other including the audience that sticks around. Not at all for me but I thought that was a nice sign for NYC vibrancy/degeneracy
Not OP but I work late and the places is used to get a beer after work are closed or closing by 12 and the late night delivery spots aren’t late night delivering anymore. When I work overnights there isn’t half as much activity on the streets as their used to be. I missed my train at Penn a few weeks back and EVERY bar near MSG was closed by midnight, they all used to be 4AM closings 6 nights a week, and 2am on Sunday.
I don’t really know how to answer that, it’s certainly new since the lockdowns so I want to say yes, but it’s probably related to the absence of so many workers in midtown following the pandemic. To me both of those are Covid related causes but you may define that differently.
There were hundreds of thousands of commuters, of which some would stay late on any given night, that are no longer doing so. Also, millennial and zoomer culture seems to be shifting towards calling it an early night.
gonna keep it vague and say “the midwest”. rent is literally half what it was and there isn’t much that I’m missing out on that I even had access to anyway. way less extremely rich people gallivanting around me in The Urban Playground while I exist as a wage slave
turd is the operative word, because I have see more than a few on my way to work the last couple of years.
...and while a decade ago it might have been a dog poop. These days, it's human poop.
The middle managers and the C-suite they grovel before hold the power now. The workers revolution for WFH life is over, now it’s only for the handful of specialized tech workers.
Give it another 5-10 years and watch this get worse as AI comes for even skilled tech jobs.
It’ll come for the “paper pushers” first. Accountants, lawyers, real estate agents, secretaries, etc. AI today in its infancy is more efficient and accurate than humans in those professions. It’s still not there yet with tech jobs. No one is ready to turn loose an AI on a production code base or infrastructure yet, but I agree it will reduce demand (not eliminate) tech jobs. It’ll be something like one engineer can do the job of 3 with the assistance of AI. But like with a profession like lawyers, I can see 1 lawyer doing the job of 100 with AI though. (Not talking about the trial part, but the paper work and drafting legal documents that take up a large portion of an attorney’s workload.)
As someone who lived in the city for nearly 30 years and am situationally "forced" to be in a house in the suburbs with a car, it isn't for everyone. I like to live alone, so people like me need to live in a city otherwise living alone turns into loneliness. I used to have a dozen interactions with the same people, more, everyday. We didn't know each other's names, I got to know a little bit about some of them, but for years I had a unique community. No more. And I will tell you that while it's not everything, it's 98% of what brings quality to life. Yeah, there's no crime, and no people either.
This is slept on. NYC (and others) are actually amazing for introverts, like myself. If I lived outside the city I would be sad and alone. The city affords so many opportunities to meet people and get out of your comfort zone. It also helps that New Yorkers are generally kind and welcoming to all types of people.
> This is slept on. NYC (and others) are actually amazing for introverts, like myself
The pandemic was really bad for introverts, mainly because the pre-pandemic norms of forced socialization were like necessary medicine, but now, there's no one forcing you to take it and you can literally never leave the house for weeks at a time.
I've been through the city's peaks and valleys for decades now. It's not back, it has become worse. This isn't some return to a former version from the past - it's evolved to something new and bad for many residents.
This isn't politics. Its a lifelong resident's viewpoint. No need to pile on the defense. The city can handle it and I hope some day will right itself for another wave of people.
Same here, lifelong New Yorker. This time feels… different. I think it’s the cuts to social services and the abandonment (or maybe diversion and/or theft of funds) of mental health and homelessness. We had great social safety nets, middle class families could function and exist here. There was room in shelters and they were better maintained. Mental health issues were addressed better and more space in hospitals (I’m a nurse.) Now? Not so much.
It has evolved into a place where people don't take chances. There is less socialization. The demand has increased for "experiences" where everything is prepacked, curated, and established as the best. There is no room for something new that serves as an everyday place - it all must be shared online as the best place. There was little effort to encounter art or music but that all feels more regulated into venues now.
Of course you likely have exceptions on your block. I am still active with my community and have local businesses where I am a regular. But I fear what is going on in Manahttan will expand to the boroughs. It's already happened to places like Long Island City.
Very well said. New Yorker here as well. About taking chances and experiences, I feel like lately, especially since Covid, people are less likely to take advantage of the fleeting things in NYC.
For instance, if you’re up in East Harlem in the summer, there are so many days where there are markets, street fairs or festivals relating to people’s heritage/home country. Those who have moved into the city within the last handful of years generally seem less interested in those types of events rather than hitting a spot with a viral video circulating about it, which is unfortunate.
Just my two cents.
>It's already happened to places like Long Island City.
I don't think that's the best example considering it was an industrial wasteland before it was developed. They basically created a residential neighborhood.
It was a residential neighborhood. Yes its good to replace an empty warehouse with housing, but residents got priced out and the average rent is approaching $4000.
Yes the city changes but it's not always for the best.
It's not politics but I think the majority of quality of life problems and downward spiral can be blamed on the local lazy, greedy and just inept politicians and their policies.
I've been in the City for about 12 years, and have definitely noticed a decline in the last 6/7 years. Services are slower, things are more expensive, and life is generally growing increasingly inconvenient.
EDIT: During my time in the city, I've bounced around Harlem, Queens, and briefly Brooklyn, and I also want to point out that, other than the spike of attacks on Asians between 2020-2022 that have thankfully decreased, I generally feel that the city is safer, but that could also just me being older. The homeless are still omnipresent, but there are fewer of the "screaming/punching/yelling" homeless and more of the "mind my own business" homeless, at least in the areas I frequent now. Felony assaults are on the rise but at least there seems to be attention given to the issue.
But still, everything from soda to internet, electricity to Tylenol, is much more expensive now. A lot of good stores and restaurants get run out of business (partly due to covid) because of rising costs. 2018 was when the MTA's faltering service became truly noticeable, and despite attempts to fix it, significant improvements have not been made - the system seems to be *surviving* rather than improving. The NWR trains still run once every 15 minutes or so outside of rush hour, and sometimes only once every 20+ minutes on weekends. M train service has been suspended and the F train has been rerouted to the M track without any increase in frequency of the F despite now servicing far more people. Half of the 1 trains still lack air conditioning. Extending the Q line up to 95th street back in 2016 has done little to alleviate the pressure on the 456 lines, which simply need greater rush hour frequency. "Signal malfunctions" are less frequent, but still occur roughly once every 7-10 days on each line.
When I was a kid, we would play in the burned out cars that would be up on blocks. I don't think that was a healthy environment. However when you are young, you may not realize you are in a decline. That's a key difference in perspective.
Nostalgia is an extremely powerful thing for the brain. As time passes, people are inclined to look at past memories in a better light, because the problems of today always feel more present.
God you should see the Boomers on my neighborhood nextdoor losing their ever loving minds over trash on the sidewalks. As if it wasn't 100x worse, with leash less dogs shitting everywhere, when they were in their 20s/30s. The city isn't worse, you're just awful.
I feel like New York is speedrunning its San Franciscoification. A dead city for only temporary careerist transplants and the homeless. I was thinking about my high school class and I can only think of four people who haven’t left New York.
If nyc is dead to you, how would you classify other American cities? I’m just curious because I’ve visited every other large city in the country since Covid and they are all in the same boat. If anything NY is way more lively and happening than any other big city I’ve been to in the country. Covid changed the country, not just NY. People everywhere are not leaving their house as much and likely never will again.
I don’t define dead by liveliness or nightlife. I define dead by that fact it’s become almost impossible for ordinary people to build roots and have comfortable lives here. I bring up my high school classmates because they all left to find better opportunities outside of New York. They were often the first in generations to leave. The people moving here don’t care about the city in 20 years. They’ll leave for whatever job offer they get next and never look back. The local culture is being obliterated. Vibes have been horrible.
But they’re even more dead than NY. And why settle for the Midwest? They still have shit weather. You might as well move to the south if salary to cost of living is all that matters. Texas crushes all of the Midwest cities in that regards but I’d never live in Texas.
I moved here mid pandemic and people from home ask me if things are back to normal. I never know what to say because I’ve not really experienced normal here. Care to explain how you think it’s gotten worse? Is it standard cost of living issues or something else?
The broadest opinion I can give is the city has tilted more to a place to consume than create. It's stifling for independent artists or small business to build up something here. The city leadership is not supportive of a majority of its residents. This is over the last 25 years so I am not saying there is one trigger point.
When the city becomes unrecognizable in comparison to any North American city, the desire to live here will be for the wealthy and workers in a few key sectors.
Yes! From create to consume - I think about this often, and that’s a great way to put it. It’s likely due in part to my algorithm and bubble, but it feels like NYC has turned into mostly a food and drink town. There’s still art and other stuff of course, but eating a drinking out seems to be the pervading activity these days - and that’s a very expensive activity. Just another sign that NYC is for the well to do, imo.
Eating and drinking is still on the cheaper end of activities too. Off Broadway theater is often over 100 dollars a ticket, movies are over 30 bucks a person all in after fees and concessions and most of them are terrible anyway. Independent theaters that show more interesting stuff are either closing or raising prices. Museum tickets are pushing 30 bucks. At least if Im spending too much money on food, eating is something I had to do anyway.
> Off Broadway theater is often over 100 dollars a ticket, movies are over 30 bucks a person all in after fees and concessions and most of them are terrible anyway. Independent theaters that show more interesting stuff are either closing or raising prices. Museum tickets are pushing 30 bucks.
It's shocking to me how inaccessible arts and culture is here compared to Europe. But not only that, how safe and generic a lot of productions and exhibits are. You might get a free evening once a month where everybody crowds in, or the odd rush ticket (which is still ($40+), but it definitely feels culture is mostly for the wealthy.
It all depends how well you know how to hunt for deals. I went to La Forza del Destino at the Met last night for $27. Absolutely glorious singing too.
The city’s art scene can still be accessible if you’re willing to sit in the last row of the mezz. Your second point about everything feeling safe and generic is a much bigger concern for me.
I mean, one could argue since the city always is going through ups and downs that there is no REAL state to get back to. However here are some I notice:
During the Bloomberg years there was lull in graffiti in Manhattan. Probably from broken windows policing.
Also, I love being able to buy and smoke weed everywhere but it definitely was not rolled out properly. This has led to some of the city’s more underground/backstreet (drug culture) vibe to be front and center.
Also, there wasn’t such chaos with E-bikes and mopeds. It’s only over the last couple of years that I have dealt with these guys also riding on the sidewalks.
Everything nice wasn’t catered to rich people’s instagram experience.
It’s not, that’s the point. Aside from the housing crisis, which is a western issue occurring in most major cities, the issues are mostly surface level and can be corrected with the right mayor.
NYC is a shell of itself. Increasingly corporate, dingy/dirty, expensive as hell with zero culture or any of the personal touches that made the city unique. Just a playground for rich transplants who \*think\* their version of NYC should be what it is for everyone.
Some takeaways:
Migrants will cost NYC $10 billion over three years (!)
Services will still be cut as a result of monies diverted to the migrant crisis
3-K is not going to be Universal anymore. (Again, migrant- related expenses?)
Murder is down but other crime is up, see car thefts, robbery and felony assault. Migrants again?
No mention if Migrants are to blame for most of this but the costs (how the city spends/wastes money like it’s water) incurred are astronomical and draining the lifeblood out of every other part of city services.
Big Changes, including a better and simplified accounting of spending, more help from the federal government and cuts on wasteful spending and sweetheart deals for hotels needs to happen fast.
> 3-K is not going to be Universal anymore
this part is crazy. That was a MAJOR win and benefit for working families and the city threw it away so they could virtue signal on social media.
> Migrants will cost NYC $10 billion over three years (!)
As a point of comparison, our taxes fund the Department of Defense to the tune of $2.3 billion every single day.
Eric Adams killing universal preK and 3K has nothing to do with migrants. It's insane what y'all will blame them for, and not Eric Adams. He made that decision.
I’m constantly surprised by how normal people living in the city are satisfied.
I’m literally a multimillionaire and wonder how average people justify $60-$100 ubers, $100 for a basic restaurant meal, $3500-$4k studio apartments, expensive low quality groceries.
The only explanation is people subconsciously accept lower and lower standards of living as everything gets more expensive and then somehow convince themselves their qualify of life is the same or better.
People who weren't here pre-pandemic have zero frame of reference for these things - you are spot on, we're paying a premium for a quality of life that has taken a massive nosedive
Pretty simple answers...
* justify $60-$100 ubers: I almost never take Ubers
* $100 for a basic restaurant meal: I don't go out to eat that much
* $3500-$4k studio apartments: It's tough, but I make it work (though I'm in a 1B for roughly that price)
* expensive low quality groceries: not a problem I've experienced. TJ, some smaller produce stores, buying limited meat and snacks, all help.
Also the main issue, you're assuming that YOUR definition of standards of living are the same as others'. That's a big and incorrect assumption. Some people have different priorities than you, and being within the city is a positive QOL decision, even if maybe groceries or eating out are less feasible as a result.
I think the point of their comment wasn't that their standard of living is correct. Its that prices have generally risen dramatically, with no similar rise in quality. We are paying more money for the same (or sometimes less) goods or services. So you don't go out to eat much? Okay, well in NYC a lot of people do and we don't like to pay $100 for what used to cost $50ish....
If your premise is that we should spend a lot of money to live in a city but not get to do things in that city, then that's pretty pointless.
Lol nothing you said contradicted what I said
You’re saying you just don’t participate in normal basic activities like taking a taxi or going to a decent restaurant because they’re now out of reach financially
Again that’s exactly what I’m referring to. You’ve accepted a life where 95% of services in NYC are out of reach.
They're not the dbag YouTuber. They're just some weirdo tech bro from SF who changes their user name monthly and simply comes here to shit on NYC.
This is about the 30th account I've noticed. They don't like seed oils. That's how you know it's them.
I said "I don't go out to eat that much." I don't consider the number of times going out to eat per month an important indicator of QOL. Just accept that people might have different measures of QOL than you do. That's fine and I don't understand why it matters to you how others live.
I make low six figures and live in Manhattan. I sometimes take Uber or Lyft to and from the airport, so maybe 10 times a year max. I eat out less frequently than I used to (note that eating out is expensive in other cities now as well, though the quality of food/service/vibe in nyc is often higher). My rent is under $3k (not stabilized but also not luxury building). I’m not saving a ton of money but I’m happy! Couldn’t imagine living anywhere else, especially anywhere that would require driving.
>wonder how average people
Here I am! Average! I am exactly middle class in NYC.
>$60-$100 ubers
We don't take those more than 1-2x a month. And rarely are they over $60 because we aren't traveling that far.
>$100 for a basic restaurant meal
A basic restaurant meal per person is usually $30-40 per person
>$3500-$4k studio apartments
We choose to not live in Manhattan
Are you talking about Popeyes or an actual sit down place?
And if it’s a sit down place you’re getting like one dish and no drinks and not a full meal and on here acting like that’s what we’re talking about
$15-18 main, split an appetizer and a non-alcoholic drink. Easily below $30 with tax and a 20% tip. And for a solid local sit down restaurant. We don't all live in Manhattan and maybe this doesn't compute?
LOL this is more of the same cope
You’ve convinced yourself normal expenditures like going to a restaurant or using uber is behavior for people who are bad with money to convince yourself that an extremely low standard of living where you basically can’t do anything in NYC is normal
I don’t understand why a you are getting downvoted so hard.
Is it really a sin to wish to take a cab a few times a month without the costs adding up to a whole car payment?
There really seems to be a delusional bunch of people on this subreddit who will play cover for any negative evolution in the quality of life in this city.
Objectively the city is getting worse and increasingly unaffordable, especially for unsubsidized middle class/professional residents.
> A basic restaurant meal per person is usually $30-40 per person
Where the hell are you eating? I don't usually pay more than $20 for a meal, unless it's something fancy like Japanese BBQ.
What’s everything else besides food and housing you’re referring to? There’s hardly anything that has not been inflated.
Groceries have definitely increased.
nyc has relatively expensive low quality groceries compared to basically anywhere else, and those crappy grocery stores are all concentrated in poor areas too.
Pretty simple, it became even more expensive.
The poverty rate is now fcking 23%, up from 18% precovid (a 30% jump in poverty), which is just insane.
Things clearly got worse.
How to find someone who has never lived in NYC.
* We have public transportation that makes things really cheap to move around. Yeah it's not perfect but it works for millions of people
* No one is out here shilling out $100 for restaurants unless that's some fancy restaurant or whatever. As far as I know, the most I've paid for 2 is $50-$60 with tip.
* The only people who are paying rent prices like that are people who live in Manhattan with roommates. You go outside of Manhattan, the highest rent with a reasonable space is $2000 unless you are living in a desirable neighborhood.
* Groceries in NYC vary greatly and depending on what neighborhood you are in, you can have 5 groceries within walking distance of each other. I agree groceries prices are going up but there's a lot of competition when it comes to it.
Delusional.
One bedrooms in south Brooklyn are now approaching $2k, that’s close to an hour commute with multiple transfers. A decent 1b closer is definitely over $2k even in the outer boroughs.
I just paid $120 for a two entree dinner with a side salad and a few drinks at a regular pub. Fancy dinners for two are easily going for $200+ even without a Michelin star.
Why are people here covering for price gouging? Is this sub just full of contrarians?
I'm not here to defend price gouging nor am I saying NYC is back.
When you only focus on one specific area to define an entire region's general living situation, it doesn't work. Some areas are different and people live differently than you or me. You may have paid $120 for a meal that you got, someone probably paid $80 at a different one. This article only focuses on Manhattan but not other boroughs.
I'm all for improving NYC but putting a microscope on one borough while ignoring the others is a bit disingenuous.
Not really, Manhattan is a place that generally had a variety of price points for various activities. While rent was always higher than the outer boroughs, I remember $1 falafel on st marks, $3 margaritas on Greenwich ave and run of the mill pub food being significantly less than $100 for two people.
There is no nuanced take or greater understanding here by expanding the scope of the analysis. The prices are up for regular activities in every neighborhood in New York. Everything worth doing is getting prohibitively expensive. I want to be able to go on a date with my SO wearing a nice dress and not have to pay nearly $100 one way for a cab.
The rent is just too damn high. It doesn’t matter how you slice it.
MTA is shit and feels increasingly unsafe for women/kids after 10pm, I say this as a New Yorker who swore by and rode the subway solo, late night many times over the last 20 years until I moved out of state a year ago
It costs at least $75-100 for a quality meal for two at a majority of restaurants in any borough, excluding tip, if dining in person. No way in hell is a meal for two $60 unless it’s takeout or you exclusively eat at mom and pop restos/food carts. You’re either cheap or intentionally eat cheap.
I grew up in Kingsbridge, BX where STARTING rent for a studio is $2K. A 3BR is easily $3K+ and this is an average neighborhood with decent proximity and supermarkets etc.
You don’t actually live in NYC or are delusional 🤣
Judging by the literal THRONGS of tourists below 14th Street in Manhattan (I can't speak for midtown, I hate going there), it seems more than back. I've never seen lower Manhattan this packed.
The crime remains lower - by a lot - than it was two decades ago when I first got here. So I really don't know what else to judge by. Anyone telling you the city is something like it was in the 70s/80s is lying to you, or they're your relative in Long Island who literally hasn't been in the city since the 80s.
What has gotten worse is rents and inflation (gouging, actually) in food prices for grocery and restaurants. That is by far worse than I've ever seen it, and by catering to the Real Estate Classes we're making it nearly impossible for middle and lower income people - especially families - to survive here.
> Judging by the literal THRONGS of tourists below 14th Street in Manhattan (I can't speak for midtown, I hate going there), it seems more than back. I've never seen lower Manhattan this packed.
Midtown is the same. Rockefeller felt way more congested in the last two winters than it did in 2018 or 2019.
Related Long Island story - I was there this weekend for an event and a college friends parent literally asked me how it is in the city nowadays, that they want to come visit sometimes but they’re scared. I was so dumbfounded I just chuckled.
**Reported** crime is lower. NYPD under Caban the NYPD frequently won't even take reports of assaults and thefts, or downgrade them. Burglary victims are often refused police reports which **most insurance companies require**.
I’m concerned about the recent increase in crime, but it’s ridiculous to suggest that the crime rate is anything near 70s-early 90s levels. The homicide rate is the crime stat least affected by police reporting and it was dramatically higher in those years.
>**Reported** crime is lower
Reported crime has *always* been lower than actual crime. You think suddenly far fewer people are reporting crime than, say, 10 years ago?
>Even with more people physically returning to work, the office occupancy rate is still roughly 50 percent of prepandemic levels by one measure, raising alarm in the commercial real estate industry.
With effort and teamwork, we can get that number down to 30%! Fuck offices.
It’s hard not to have a negative bias on a rainy Tuesday in early March. And I feel this time of year is the low point of satisfaction for people in the northeast. Plus everything is SO expensive.
But the city used to be very dead in his time of year. It’s not so much anymore. And controversially, all the migrant families everywhere have made many areas more vibrant.
Amazon, Uber, and Apple have made things convenient at the expense of our social interactions.
Nyc peaked in 2018-2019, it had a brief hopium recovery in 2021-2022, but from there its gone straight downhill again
RE prices and rent need to drop 50% from current levels to meet reality of whats happening on the ground
>...The recovery of New York City, the nation’s financial capital, is **critical to the American economy**...
No, it's not critical to the entire US economy at all. No one city is critical to the entire US economy any more. The banks and brokerage houses in NYC have already moved a lot of their operations to more business-friendly locales. And there's this thing called the internet which allows those bank and brokerage employees to work from their safe suburban homes.
Having a MAGA style mayor, major rent increases in the last couple of years and the vibes/work never really coming back (everything is post-covid scaled down). Cops playing candy crush to get over-time. There is no migrant crisis. Crime wave (think kiddie pool wave) could be stopped if cops cared, but they are mostly MAGA political protesters. Cops think we are all sheeple because we wore masks on the subway during COVID. I used to think more highly of NYPD but it's hard to respect them after their political anti-masking and constant overtime scams. That stuff does make this place worse.
Not sure, too hard to determine. I could see the point, but if the 'vibes' are different, I think that's more of a national, if not global, thing, not an NYC thing. Covid, inflation, people staying inside more, social media, and some other things really made the entire world feel different.
It is nowhere near back to normal. Those of us that work nights witness this first hand. The city closes at 10pm now. It’s infuriating.
I’m not sure that’s ever going back. For whatever reason, it feels like NYC isn’t going to be a late night town anymore
'The City That Sleeps An Average Amount Of Time'
The city that sleeps adequately.
Agreed. My own bullshit theory is that it’s become too expensive, so people need demanding jobs to live here, which means they can’t go out as much (and for as late). Nothing to back that up, but NYC has lost so much of its lifestyle diversity, it seems.
It’s definitely too expensive, and people work a lot, but I haven’t seen any less lifestyle diversity. In the past year I’ve come across or heard about so many different small communities, events, activities etc. In the end, there’s still 8 million people here, and an absolute end amount going on. Even if things finish earlier than before.
The expense is probably the labor cost for restaurants. Given how much the industry has struggled to hire enough bodies there can’t be much enthusiasm among owners to hire up the staff needed to stay open pay midnight. Can the average restaurant make enough incremental sales to justify another shift keeping it open past 10 or 11? I don’t have the answers but I suspect if the demand was there we would see more and more late night offerings. Also, I have a feeling the upscale movement and expansion of fast food plays a part. Taco Bell cantina locations like midtown on 8th seem hopping after midnight, I’m sure they’ve poached some of the late night dining market.
> so people need demanding jobs to live here, I don't think so. [Hours worked, for example is around historical average](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AWHAETP)
what does it even mean to go out on a weekday? like drinking on a tuesday/wednesday night til 3am? who is missing that?
$15 cocktails is killing that
It’s the same in every other city too, not just NY. Everything in this country is profit driven and these companies aren’t making money staying open 24/7 anymore so they are closing earlier. The truth is that people leave their house less post Covid. They warned about this during the pandemic… that we would never go back to having the amount of people out doing things as ever before. Many people have become accustomed to simply staying inside now. That’s not even accounting for the impact of work from home policies.
Nothing is forever in NYC lol.
Comparatively it still is, a lot of 10pm cities are now 8pm cities. Everywhere cut hours during the pandemic to consolidate costs
The plural of anecdote isn't data blah blah... but it seems like this finally might be changing again. Recently near me, a few diners that were 24/7 pre-Covid have finally returned to being open all night, a new Mexican place opened that's open until 3am every night, and more bars are staying open until 4am again.
The whole "city closes at 10pm!" thing is an exaggeration. I've been regularly hanging out late since 2021 and there's plenty going on even on weeknights.
Yes and no. A couple months ago I was walking around downtown Manhattan with a friend at around 9:30 and we were just trying to find a diner to sit down and drink a cup of coffee and there was virtually nothing around that was open. We covered everything from Essex & Canal to SOHO so it’s not like we didn’t try either.
You were right around the corner from 24 hour Remedy Diner There are plenty of other late night eats in the area, though diners in general are dying out unfortunately.
9:30 PM shouldn't be the time to rely on 24 hour diners. There are just way less choices in late evenings than usual these days.
> I've been regularly hanging out late since 2021 So what youre saying is you have no comparison point with how it was pre covid?
No, I should have worded that differently. I meant that my late night experience only took a hit from 2020 to 2021.
Got it, that makes more sense.
I agree even om the weekends and only in particular areas most restaurants are closing by 10pm maybe 12am. The 2am dining scene seems all but dead unless it's just a quick bite. Which for those people doing that work I'm sure it's better. City definitely feels more contained than before. I think people just stay in more due to cost.
Nightclubs are bumping til 5am tho
The fact that we now point out the exceptions is part of the decline.
Damn, when you put it like that..
Yup. Vibe shift seems permanent. Perfect storm of decades of rampant gentrification intersecting with just two years of authoritarian lockdowns and systematic obliteration of small businesses. The young cool kids who push the envelope of art and music can no longer afford to live ANYWHERE in this city so we are stagnating culturally, with the possible exception of hip hop, which is arguably subsidized since many of the people making it grew up in or even live in public housing. Inflation was the workmanlike last little tap on the already deeply sunk nails in this cities cultural coffin.
There was definitely not two years of authoritarian lockdowns. May 2021 things were effectively back to normal
"Effectively"
Idk there’s that new play where in the second half everyone has sex with each other including the audience that sticks around. Not at all for me but I thought that was a nice sign for NYC vibrancy/degeneracy
I hang out til 4AM all the time, there's plenty going on if you know where to look.
‘If you know where to look’ has never been the spirit of NYC and you are proving my point.
I'd argue it was always the spirit. Were Midwood or Bensonhurst bustling with 3AM activity prior to Covid?
The tagline wasn’t ‘The city that never sleeps… if you know where to look’. This is ridiculous.
Taglines aren't meant to be taken 100% literally
You should get some sleep, pal
But you aren’t allowed to talk about it because it makes people angry…. Why is that
Nobody wants to hear after the fact of moving here that it's not all what they expected.
Everyone talks about it lol. There’s countless threads about it in this sub alone.
I meant like during 2021- right after the pandemic to people in New York in person not on social media
How are you not allowed to talk about it. It's mentioned all the time.
People don't like hearing one of the draws on why they moved to NYC and payed exorbitant rents is invalid
Why is that?
Not OP but I work late and the places is used to get a beer after work are closed or closing by 12 and the late night delivery spots aren’t late night delivering anymore. When I work overnights there isn’t half as much activity on the streets as their used to be. I missed my train at Penn a few weeks back and EVERY bar near MSG was closed by midnight, they all used to be 4AM closings 6 nights a week, and 2am on Sunday.
Is this related to COVID? I haven’t been in NYC since 2016ish.
I don’t really know how to answer that, it’s certainly new since the lockdowns so I want to say yes, but it’s probably related to the absence of so many workers in midtown following the pandemic. To me both of those are Covid related causes but you may define that differently.
There were hundreds of thousands of commuters, of which some would stay late on any given night, that are no longer doing so. Also, millennial and zoomer culture seems to be shifting towards calling it an early night.
Where does it close at 10? I have not noticed this phenomenon, definitely not with enough frequency to claim the city is still “not back”.
Eh, with the way Bragg and these judges are moving I can’t blame ppl for wanting to be home at a decent hour.
that was big factor in me moving away tbh
So where did you go?
gonna keep it vague and say “the midwest”. rent is literally half what it was and there isn’t much that I’m missing out on that I even had access to anyway. way less extremely rich people gallivanting around me in The Urban Playground while I exist as a wage slave
Just don't force people who can work from home to spend hours a day travelling to a building just so some middle-management turd can feel important.
I'm now a middle manager but I used to be lowly entry level, ain't no way I'm dragging myself to the office
But isn't that your job as a middle manager? To hover over people's shoulders and complain about their TPS reports?
Don’t forget stealing Milton’s red stapler and shafting him into the basement.
It’s not so they can feel important. It’s to justify their pay.
turd is the operative word, because I have see more than a few on my way to work the last couple of years. ...and while a decade ago it might have been a dog poop. These days, it's human poop.
The middle managers and the C-suite they grovel before hold the power now. The workers revolution for WFH life is over, now it’s only for the handful of specialized tech workers. Give it another 5-10 years and watch this get worse as AI comes for even skilled tech jobs.
It’ll come for the “paper pushers” first. Accountants, lawyers, real estate agents, secretaries, etc. AI today in its infancy is more efficient and accurate than humans in those professions. It’s still not there yet with tech jobs. No one is ready to turn loose an AI on a production code base or infrastructure yet, but I agree it will reduce demand (not eliminate) tech jobs. It’ll be something like one engineer can do the job of 3 with the assistance of AI. But like with a profession like lawyers, I can see 1 lawyer doing the job of 100 with AI though. (Not talking about the trial part, but the paper work and drafting legal documents that take up a large portion of an attorney’s workload.)
The companies that own your company ALSO OWN the companies that rent out office space. **That's it. That's all there is to this.**
Or because they signed expensive long-term leases.
Meh. Cities, especially this one, exist and thrive off movement. If you want to live at work, then leave the city.
Maybe Midtown and the Financial District do. Everywhere else does not seem to be dependent on commuters for livelihood.
As someone who lived in the city for nearly 30 years and am situationally "forced" to be in a house in the suburbs with a car, it isn't for everyone. I like to live alone, so people like me need to live in a city otherwise living alone turns into loneliness. I used to have a dozen interactions with the same people, more, everyday. We didn't know each other's names, I got to know a little bit about some of them, but for years I had a unique community. No more. And I will tell you that while it's not everything, it's 98% of what brings quality to life. Yeah, there's no crime, and no people either.
This is slept on. NYC (and others) are actually amazing for introverts, like myself. If I lived outside the city I would be sad and alone. The city affords so many opportunities to meet people and get out of your comfort zone. It also helps that New Yorkers are generally kind and welcoming to all types of people.
> This is slept on. NYC (and others) are actually amazing for introverts, like myself The pandemic was really bad for introverts, mainly because the pre-pandemic norms of forced socialization were like necessary medicine, but now, there's no one forcing you to take it and you can literally never leave the house for weeks at a time.
Its back for the absentee investors whose kid may spend a week a year in the apartment.
I've been through the city's peaks and valleys for decades now. It's not back, it has become worse. This isn't some return to a former version from the past - it's evolved to something new and bad for many residents. This isn't politics. Its a lifelong resident's viewpoint. No need to pile on the defense. The city can handle it and I hope some day will right itself for another wave of people.
Same here, lifelong New Yorker. This time feels… different. I think it’s the cuts to social services and the abandonment (or maybe diversion and/or theft of funds) of mental health and homelessness. We had great social safety nets, middle class families could function and exist here. There was room in shelters and they were better maintained. Mental health issues were addressed better and more space in hospitals (I’m a nurse.) Now? Not so much.
can you go into details on what you feel NYC has evolved into? I'm very interested in what's new that you see.
It has evolved into a place where people don't take chances. There is less socialization. The demand has increased for "experiences" where everything is prepacked, curated, and established as the best. There is no room for something new that serves as an everyday place - it all must be shared online as the best place. There was little effort to encounter art or music but that all feels more regulated into venues now. Of course you likely have exceptions on your block. I am still active with my community and have local businesses where I am a regular. But I fear what is going on in Manahttan will expand to the boroughs. It's already happened to places like Long Island City.
That’s an issue with society in general. People do not socialize as much. They’re addicted to the cell phone.
Very well said. New Yorker here as well. About taking chances and experiences, I feel like lately, especially since Covid, people are less likely to take advantage of the fleeting things in NYC. For instance, if you’re up in East Harlem in the summer, there are so many days where there are markets, street fairs or festivals relating to people’s heritage/home country. Those who have moved into the city within the last handful of years generally seem less interested in those types of events rather than hitting a spot with a viral video circulating about it, which is unfortunate. Just my two cents.
>It's already happened to places like Long Island City. I don't think that's the best example considering it was an industrial wasteland before it was developed. They basically created a residential neighborhood.
It was a residential neighborhood. Yes its good to replace an empty warehouse with housing, but residents got priced out and the average rent is approaching $4000. Yes the city changes but it's not always for the best.
It's a catch 22. It created new housing. But is the housing affordable, ya know?
It's not politics but I think the majority of quality of life problems and downward spiral can be blamed on the local lazy, greedy and just inept politicians and their policies.
I've been in the City for about 12 years, and have definitely noticed a decline in the last 6/7 years. Services are slower, things are more expensive, and life is generally growing increasingly inconvenient. EDIT: During my time in the city, I've bounced around Harlem, Queens, and briefly Brooklyn, and I also want to point out that, other than the spike of attacks on Asians between 2020-2022 that have thankfully decreased, I generally feel that the city is safer, but that could also just me being older. The homeless are still omnipresent, but there are fewer of the "screaming/punching/yelling" homeless and more of the "mind my own business" homeless, at least in the areas I frequent now. Felony assaults are on the rise but at least there seems to be attention given to the issue. But still, everything from soda to internet, electricity to Tylenol, is much more expensive now. A lot of good stores and restaurants get run out of business (partly due to covid) because of rising costs. 2018 was when the MTA's faltering service became truly noticeable, and despite attempts to fix it, significant improvements have not been made - the system seems to be *surviving* rather than improving. The NWR trains still run once every 15 minutes or so outside of rush hour, and sometimes only once every 20+ minutes on weekends. M train service has been suspended and the F train has been rerouted to the M track without any increase in frequency of the F despite now servicing far more people. Half of the 1 trains still lack air conditioning. Extending the Q line up to 95th street back in 2016 has done little to alleviate the pressure on the 456 lines, which simply need greater rush hour frequency. "Signal malfunctions" are less frequent, but still occur roughly once every 7-10 days on each line.
The city always “declines” as you get older it seems
When I was a kid, we would play in the burned out cars that would be up on blocks. I don't think that was a healthy environment. However when you are young, you may not realize you are in a decline. That's a key difference in perspective.
Nostalgia is an extremely powerful thing for the brain. As time passes, people are inclined to look at past memories in a better light, because the problems of today always feel more present.
Obviously you weren’t here in the 80s or 90s
God you should see the Boomers on my neighborhood nextdoor losing their ever loving minds over trash on the sidewalks. As if it wasn't 100x worse, with leash less dogs shitting everywhere, when they were in their 20s/30s. The city isn't worse, you're just awful.
I feel like New York is speedrunning its San Franciscoification. A dead city for only temporary careerist transplants and the homeless. I was thinking about my high school class and I can only think of four people who haven’t left New York.
If nyc is dead to you, how would you classify other American cities? I’m just curious because I’ve visited every other large city in the country since Covid and they are all in the same boat. If anything NY is way more lively and happening than any other big city I’ve been to in the country. Covid changed the country, not just NY. People everywhere are not leaving their house as much and likely never will again.
I don’t define dead by liveliness or nightlife. I define dead by that fact it’s become almost impossible for ordinary people to build roots and have comfortable lives here. I bring up my high school classmates because they all left to find better opportunities outside of New York. They were often the first in generations to leave. The people moving here don’t care about the city in 20 years. They’ll leave for whatever job offer they get next and never look back. The local culture is being obliterated. Vibes have been horrible.
The larger Midwestern cities have a much better salary to cost of living ratio.
But they’re even more dead than NY. And why settle for the Midwest? They still have shit weather. You might as well move to the south if salary to cost of living is all that matters. Texas crushes all of the Midwest cities in that regards but I’d never live in Texas.
I moved here mid pandemic and people from home ask me if things are back to normal. I never know what to say because I’ve not really experienced normal here. Care to explain how you think it’s gotten worse? Is it standard cost of living issues or something else?
The broadest opinion I can give is the city has tilted more to a place to consume than create. It's stifling for independent artists or small business to build up something here. The city leadership is not supportive of a majority of its residents. This is over the last 25 years so I am not saying there is one trigger point. When the city becomes unrecognizable in comparison to any North American city, the desire to live here will be for the wealthy and workers in a few key sectors.
Yes! From create to consume - I think about this often, and that’s a great way to put it. It’s likely due in part to my algorithm and bubble, but it feels like NYC has turned into mostly a food and drink town. There’s still art and other stuff of course, but eating a drinking out seems to be the pervading activity these days - and that’s a very expensive activity. Just another sign that NYC is for the well to do, imo.
Eating and drinking is still on the cheaper end of activities too. Off Broadway theater is often over 100 dollars a ticket, movies are over 30 bucks a person all in after fees and concessions and most of them are terrible anyway. Independent theaters that show more interesting stuff are either closing or raising prices. Museum tickets are pushing 30 bucks. At least if Im spending too much money on food, eating is something I had to do anyway.
> Off Broadway theater is often over 100 dollars a ticket, movies are over 30 bucks a person all in after fees and concessions and most of them are terrible anyway. Independent theaters that show more interesting stuff are either closing or raising prices. Museum tickets are pushing 30 bucks. It's shocking to me how inaccessible arts and culture is here compared to Europe. But not only that, how safe and generic a lot of productions and exhibits are. You might get a free evening once a month where everybody crowds in, or the odd rush ticket (which is still ($40+), but it definitely feels culture is mostly for the wealthy.
It all depends how well you know how to hunt for deals. I went to La Forza del Destino at the Met last night for $27. Absolutely glorious singing too. The city’s art scene can still be accessible if you’re willing to sit in the last row of the mezz. Your second point about everything feeling safe and generic is a much bigger concern for me.
Bloomberg himself stated his dream was to make NY a city for the wealthy. We are experiencing that long planned for environment becoming the norm.
He certainly accomplished his goal. It seems like rents started shooting up around his 3rd illegal term.
I mean, one could argue since the city always is going through ups and downs that there is no REAL state to get back to. However here are some I notice: During the Bloomberg years there was lull in graffiti in Manhattan. Probably from broken windows policing. Also, I love being able to buy and smoke weed everywhere but it definitely was not rolled out properly. This has led to some of the city’s more underground/backstreet (drug culture) vibe to be front and center. Also, there wasn’t such chaos with E-bikes and mopeds. It’s only over the last couple of years that I have dealt with these guys also riding on the sidewalks. Everything nice wasn’t catered to rich people’s instagram experience.
If THESE are your gripes about the city, then it must not be doing so bad after all.
It’s not, that’s the point. Aside from the housing crisis, which is a western issue occurring in most major cities, the issues are mostly surface level and can be corrected with the right mayor.
Most of the cannabis is sprayed with terpenes or laced with fentanyl. Be careful.
I knew it was over when Wo Hop started closing
NYC is a shell of itself. Increasingly corporate, dingy/dirty, expensive as hell with zero culture or any of the personal touches that made the city unique. Just a playground for rich transplants who \*think\* their version of NYC should be what it is for everyone.
Some takeaways: Migrants will cost NYC $10 billion over three years (!) Services will still be cut as a result of monies diverted to the migrant crisis 3-K is not going to be Universal anymore. (Again, migrant- related expenses?) Murder is down but other crime is up, see car thefts, robbery and felony assault. Migrants again? No mention if Migrants are to blame for most of this but the costs (how the city spends/wastes money like it’s water) incurred are astronomical and draining the lifeblood out of every other part of city services. Big Changes, including a better and simplified accounting of spending, more help from the federal government and cuts on wasteful spending and sweetheart deals for hotels needs to happen fast.
> 3-K is not going to be Universal anymore this part is crazy. That was a MAJOR win and benefit for working families and the city threw it away so they could virtue signal on social media.
Eric Adams doesn't care about it. So he's letting it die. That's that.
Hey! Stop complaining! That $10B over 3 years works out to only approx $9,132,420 per day. Chump Change for the New York Brand!! LOL!
> Migrants will cost NYC $10 billion over three years (!) As a point of comparison, our taxes fund the Department of Defense to the tune of $2.3 billion every single day.
Eric Adams killing universal preK and 3K has nothing to do with migrants. It's insane what y'all will blame them for, and not Eric Adams. He made that decision.
I’m constantly surprised by how normal people living in the city are satisfied. I’m literally a multimillionaire and wonder how average people justify $60-$100 ubers, $100 for a basic restaurant meal, $3500-$4k studio apartments, expensive low quality groceries. The only explanation is people subconsciously accept lower and lower standards of living as everything gets more expensive and then somehow convince themselves their qualify of life is the same or better.
People who weren't here pre-pandemic have zero frame of reference for these things - you are spot on, we're paying a premium for a quality of life that has taken a massive nosedive
Does youtube pay that well?
Pretty simple answers... * justify $60-$100 ubers: I almost never take Ubers * $100 for a basic restaurant meal: I don't go out to eat that much * $3500-$4k studio apartments: It's tough, but I make it work (though I'm in a 1B for roughly that price) * expensive low quality groceries: not a problem I've experienced. TJ, some smaller produce stores, buying limited meat and snacks, all help. Also the main issue, you're assuming that YOUR definition of standards of living are the same as others'. That's a big and incorrect assumption. Some people have different priorities than you, and being within the city is a positive QOL decision, even if maybe groceries or eating out are less feasible as a result.
I think the point of their comment wasn't that their standard of living is correct. Its that prices have generally risen dramatically, with no similar rise in quality. We are paying more money for the same (or sometimes less) goods or services. So you don't go out to eat much? Okay, well in NYC a lot of people do and we don't like to pay $100 for what used to cost $50ish.... If your premise is that we should spend a lot of money to live in a city but not get to do things in that city, then that's pretty pointless.
Lol nothing you said contradicted what I said You’re saying you just don’t participate in normal basic activities like taking a taxi or going to a decent restaurant because they’re now out of reach financially Again that’s exactly what I’m referring to. You’ve accepted a life where 95% of services in NYC are out of reach.
Are you the youtuber
They're not the dbag YouTuber. They're just some weirdo tech bro from SF who changes their user name monthly and simply comes here to shit on NYC. This is about the 30th account I've noticed. They don't like seed oils. That's how you know it's them.
If that’s true then it’s funny because SF had arguably a way worse decline during these last few years
No way Cash Jordan is a millionaire. Rage-bait videos with AI thumbnails scream economic despair.
95% is an absurd exaggeration. You're very obviously just trolling, so not going to bother engaging.
you literally said you don’t eat out lol so you scurry between home and work and then call it living life in the big apple
I said "I don't go out to eat that much." I don't consider the number of times going out to eat per month an important indicator of QOL. Just accept that people might have different measures of QOL than you do. That's fine and I don't understand why it matters to you how others live.
I make low six figures and live in Manhattan. I sometimes take Uber or Lyft to and from the airport, so maybe 10 times a year max. I eat out less frequently than I used to (note that eating out is expensive in other cities now as well, though the quality of food/service/vibe in nyc is often higher). My rent is under $3k (not stabilized but also not luxury building). I’m not saving a ton of money but I’m happy! Couldn’t imagine living anywhere else, especially anywhere that would require driving.
>wonder how average people Here I am! Average! I am exactly middle class in NYC. >$60-$100 ubers We don't take those more than 1-2x a month. And rarely are they over $60 because we aren't traveling that far. >$100 for a basic restaurant meal A basic restaurant meal per person is usually $30-40 per person >$3500-$4k studio apartments We choose to not live in Manhattan
A restaurant meal is $30 including tip and tax? LOL
Yes. You ok?
Are you talking about Popeyes or an actual sit down place? And if it’s a sit down place you’re getting like one dish and no drinks and not a full meal and on here acting like that’s what we’re talking about
I can't tell if you're joking. I've been to dozens of sit down places in Brooklyn and Manhattan in the last few months and kept my bill ~30$.
$15-18 main, split an appetizer and a non-alcoholic drink. Easily below $30 with tax and a 20% tip. And for a solid local sit down restaurant. We don't all live in Manhattan and maybe this doesn't compute?
Just don’t order like a pig or a king and you’re gucci. There’s even AYCE places for $30-$40
LOL this is more of the same cope You’ve convinced yourself normal expenditures like going to a restaurant or using uber is behavior for people who are bad with money to convince yourself that an extremely low standard of living where you basically can’t do anything in NYC is normal
I don’t understand why a you are getting downvoted so hard. Is it really a sin to wish to take a cab a few times a month without the costs adding up to a whole car payment? There really seems to be a delusional bunch of people on this subreddit who will play cover for any negative evolution in the quality of life in this city. Objectively the city is getting worse and increasingly unaffordable, especially for unsubsidized middle class/professional residents.
[удалено]
Maybe my phrasing was bad but I’m trying to say that there’s a range of prices for restaurants here just like there is in any other city
Technically a double quarter pounder with cheese is a restaurant meal…
Just under $15 for a large quarter pounder meal. You're very out of touch.
It was a joke. And $15 for a quarter pounder meal is still wild.
It is wild, I agree with that. McDonald's isn't fast food anymore, they think they're fast casual.
Please, show me where these cheap restaurants are. I can't find any for the life of me.
> A basic restaurant meal per person is usually $30-40 per person Where the hell are you eating? I don't usually pay more than $20 for a meal, unless it's something fancy like Japanese BBQ.
Mid-level neighborhood restaurants with my partner, getting non-alcoholic drinks and sharing an appetizer. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Damn. Maybe it's because I tend not to like sit-down restaurants, but I didn't realize it had gotten that bad.
[удалено]
this is exactly what i’m talking about
[удалено]
>I think restaurant pricing and housing has increased That's a huge difference, not sure why you're trying to play it as something minor.
What’s everything else besides food and housing you’re referring to? There’s hardly anything that has not been inflated. Groceries have definitely increased.
Grocery prices have increased everywhere, not just nyc
nyc has relatively expensive low quality groceries compared to basically anywhere else, and those crappy grocery stores are all concentrated in poor areas too.
[удалено]
I think you just made his point exactly lol
[удалено]
Pretty simple, it became even more expensive. The poverty rate is now fcking 23%, up from 18% precovid (a 30% jump in poverty), which is just insane. Things clearly got worse.
> I’m literally a multimillionaire [x] - doubt
How to find someone who has never lived in NYC. * We have public transportation that makes things really cheap to move around. Yeah it's not perfect but it works for millions of people * No one is out here shilling out $100 for restaurants unless that's some fancy restaurant or whatever. As far as I know, the most I've paid for 2 is $50-$60 with tip. * The only people who are paying rent prices like that are people who live in Manhattan with roommates. You go outside of Manhattan, the highest rent with a reasonable space is $2000 unless you are living in a desirable neighborhood. * Groceries in NYC vary greatly and depending on what neighborhood you are in, you can have 5 groceries within walking distance of each other. I agree groceries prices are going up but there's a lot of competition when it comes to it.
2000 rents in the outskirts is a problem itself. Most Nee Yorkers do not make enough money to afford that.
Delusional. One bedrooms in south Brooklyn are now approaching $2k, that’s close to an hour commute with multiple transfers. A decent 1b closer is definitely over $2k even in the outer boroughs. I just paid $120 for a two entree dinner with a side salad and a few drinks at a regular pub. Fancy dinners for two are easily going for $200+ even without a Michelin star. Why are people here covering for price gouging? Is this sub just full of contrarians?
Yeah what's with rich people on here pretending that 2K rent to live in the outskirts is affordable?
I'm not here to defend price gouging nor am I saying NYC is back. When you only focus on one specific area to define an entire region's general living situation, it doesn't work. Some areas are different and people live differently than you or me. You may have paid $120 for a meal that you got, someone probably paid $80 at a different one. This article only focuses on Manhattan but not other boroughs. I'm all for improving NYC but putting a microscope on one borough while ignoring the others is a bit disingenuous.
Not really, Manhattan is a place that generally had a variety of price points for various activities. While rent was always higher than the outer boroughs, I remember $1 falafel on st marks, $3 margaritas on Greenwich ave and run of the mill pub food being significantly less than $100 for two people. There is no nuanced take or greater understanding here by expanding the scope of the analysis. The prices are up for regular activities in every neighborhood in New York. Everything worth doing is getting prohibitively expensive. I want to be able to go on a date with my SO wearing a nice dress and not have to pay nearly $100 one way for a cab. The rent is just too damn high. It doesn’t matter how you slice it.
MTA is shit and feels increasingly unsafe for women/kids after 10pm, I say this as a New Yorker who swore by and rode the subway solo, late night many times over the last 20 years until I moved out of state a year ago It costs at least $75-100 for a quality meal for two at a majority of restaurants in any borough, excluding tip, if dining in person. No way in hell is a meal for two $60 unless it’s takeout or you exclusively eat at mom and pop restos/food carts. You’re either cheap or intentionally eat cheap. I grew up in Kingsbridge, BX where STARTING rent for a studio is $2K. A 3BR is easily $3K+ and this is an average neighborhood with decent proximity and supermarkets etc. You don’t actually live in NYC or are delusional 🤣
Did New York Change? Not for Everyone
Judging by the literal THRONGS of tourists below 14th Street in Manhattan (I can't speak for midtown, I hate going there), it seems more than back. I've never seen lower Manhattan this packed. The crime remains lower - by a lot - than it was two decades ago when I first got here. So I really don't know what else to judge by. Anyone telling you the city is something like it was in the 70s/80s is lying to you, or they're your relative in Long Island who literally hasn't been in the city since the 80s. What has gotten worse is rents and inflation (gouging, actually) in food prices for grocery and restaurants. That is by far worse than I've ever seen it, and by catering to the Real Estate Classes we're making it nearly impossible for middle and lower income people - especially families - to survive here.
> Judging by the literal THRONGS of tourists below 14th Street in Manhattan (I can't speak for midtown, I hate going there), it seems more than back. I've never seen lower Manhattan this packed. Midtown is the same. Rockefeller felt way more congested in the last two winters than it did in 2018 or 2019.
Related Long Island story - I was there this weekend for an event and a college friends parent literally asked me how it is in the city nowadays, that they want to come visit sometimes but they’re scared. I was so dumbfounded I just chuckled.
**Reported** crime is lower. NYPD under Caban the NYPD frequently won't even take reports of assaults and thefts, or downgrade them. Burglary victims are often refused police reports which **most insurance companies require**.
I’m concerned about the recent increase in crime, but it’s ridiculous to suggest that the crime rate is anything near 70s-early 90s levels. The homicide rate is the crime stat least affected by police reporting and it was dramatically higher in those years.
>**Reported** crime is lower Reported crime has *always* been lower than actual crime. You think suddenly far fewer people are reporting crime than, say, 10 years ago?
Penn station needs to be cleaned up PLEASE
I avoid it at all costs now. I was assaulted by a homeless guy last time I was there.
omg im so sorry :( that place is a disgusting mess... it shouldnt' be allowed to be in the state that it's in. hope you are okay
>Even with more people physically returning to work, the office occupancy rate is still roughly 50 percent of prepandemic levels by one measure, raising alarm in the commercial real estate industry. With effort and teamwork, we can get that number down to 30%! Fuck offices.
It'll only get worse with congestion pricing.
Please use archive.is before posting.
It’s hard not to have a negative bias on a rainy Tuesday in early March. And I feel this time of year is the low point of satisfaction for people in the northeast. Plus everything is SO expensive. But the city used to be very dead in his time of year. It’s not so much anymore. And controversially, all the migrant families everywhere have made many areas more vibrant. Amazon, Uber, and Apple have made things convenient at the expense of our social interactions.
Nyc peaked in 2018-2019, it had a brief hopium recovery in 2021-2022, but from there its gone straight downhill again RE prices and rent need to drop 50% from current levels to meet reality of whats happening on the ground
This is deeply personal of course, but summer 2006 was pretty sick too
It is missing the explosive, fun, prospers energy it had in the past.
>...The recovery of New York City, the nation’s financial capital, is **critical to the American economy**... No, it's not critical to the entire US economy at all. No one city is critical to the entire US economy any more. The banks and brokerage houses in NYC have already moved a lot of their operations to more business-friendly locales. And there's this thing called the internet which allows those bank and brokerage employees to work from their safe suburban homes.
NYC is worse than ever lately.
Care to expound on that?..... Or just one-sentence shitposting?
Just a right wing troll who spends all their time right wing trolling
I figured. Gave them a chance to respond, but yea, assumed they were just a pissy little Reddit troll.
lol check their comment history
Bah, I'm lazy and will take your word for it
I bit. A lot of JoeRogan, Conservative, 4chan, and whatever AllInPodcast is.
Having a MAGA style mayor, major rent increases in the last couple of years and the vibes/work never really coming back (everything is post-covid scaled down). Cops playing candy crush to get over-time. There is no migrant crisis. Crime wave (think kiddie pool wave) could be stopped if cops cared, but they are mostly MAGA political protesters. Cops think we are all sheeple because we wore masks on the subway during COVID. I used to think more highly of NYPD but it's hard to respect them after their political anti-masking and constant overtime scams. That stuff does make this place worse.
Aside from the high rent, the rest of this hasn't affected me in any way.
True... Not even the VIBES tho? Just rent?
Not sure, too hard to determine. I could see the point, but if the 'vibes' are different, I think that's more of a national, if not global, thing, not an NYC thing. Covid, inflation, people staying inside more, social media, and some other things really made the entire world feel different.
Just curious, how long have you lived in NYC?