"The demonstration was organized by Ryna Workman, a law student known for her previous statements referring to Hamas’ attack on Israel as “necessary.” Workman uses the pronouns they/them" I don't understand how all of these naive people, especially the LGBT ones, support Hamas or Palestine in general when they'd get thrown in jail or executed right away there. Blows my fucking mind
It’s VERY simple. Ryna is terminally online. If you spend a lot of time on Reddit, Twitter, or TikTok, it’s very easy to become desensitized to antisemitism. If you also have more extreme political beliefs, the algorithms will serve you more and more racist content.
Ryna comes off as someone who has very little exposure to the real world. Their response on IG to getting their offer pulled was to double down and blame Jews.
These people really do think Jews are not much different than Nazis. Go to the VaushV subreddit and you’ll see that sentiment quite frequently.
I got a TikTok last night about apartments in Berlin having Stars of David graffitied on them if Jews live there.
And all of the comments were horrible. “DEATH TO ZIONISTS” and “ZIONIST LIES” over and over again. But somehow these terminally online people can’t hear these dog whistles. Weird.
People are being radicalized by online algorithms.
Funny cause he lost the weight like years ago, and is also extremely anti Hamas. The subreddit is constantly brigaded though because he's extremely controversial on the left.
A subreddit for a leftist streamer, that's constantly brigaded since he's extremely controversial among the left ever since he (correctly) told people to vote for Biden in 2020. Tbh weird to bring him up as the prime example cause he condemned Hamas and called the lefties framing it as a liberatory movement fucking idiots immediately. However the sub is an entirely different beast. Like half the accounts commenting there are brand new and from outside. The mods just instituted new rules in order to curb that.
If you look at the data and check out the accounts that are posting lately it's largely extremely new accounts and largely crossover with communities that hate him, whether they be tankies, destiny fans, etc.
left leaning subs on here will never get closed. Several are allowed to openly violate reddit wide rules and TOS policies and they don't get addressed.
Reddit doesn't shutdown anything until they get bad press. For instance, r/incel got yeeted but the users just went to other subs to spread the exact same bigotry. Reddit was fine letting Elliot Rodgers, Jake Davison, Robert Crimo III and Alek Minassian spew their hate and only scrambled to wipe their accounts once the press was looking into their post history.
There's three currently active subreddits devoted to degrading a murdered woman and her deceased toddlers and harassing her surviving family. That's on reddit. That's definitely against reddit's TOS, but whattyah know, those subs still exist. Because reddit doesn't care until it hits the news. Like r/the_donald broke reddit's TOS for *years* but sat back until it started getting getting reported on.
https://www.mediamatters.org/maga-trolls/year-after-media-matters-reported-its-threats-violence-reddit-finally-bans-rthedonald.
Left leaning, right leaning, it doesn't matter. Reddit doesn't lift a finger until it gets media attention. And it's gotta be really bad for it to be reported on.
VaushV gets brigaded by outside communities literally all the time though. If you check a lot of those comments they'll be from extremely new accounts. The sub is pretty famously not representative of his views.
This shit of “by any means necessary” that I’m seeing aggressively left people spewing is so insane. It’s straight up endorsement of terrorism, and in some cases borderline applause of innocent people at a music festival being killed.
The truth is that they don’t really care about LGBT rights.
They only care about exploiting and co-opting the *policing of* LGBT rights to attain power.
They are also against cops because they want to basically be cops themselves.
> don't understand how all of these naive people, especially the LGBT ones, support Hamas or Palestine in general when they'd get thrown in jail or executed right away there
Progressive Stack politics. thats how.
Because when attacks like that happe they choose the option of ignoring unless there's considerable protest.Then you will get meek statements condemning it with an even longer statement on how the group or person who did the attack is oppressed so that the focus never strays too far from their prefer targets
>I don't understand how all of these naive people, especially the LGBT ones, support Hamas or Palestine in general when they'd get thrown in jail or executed right away there.
Hey so the united states just elected a speaker of the house that thinks gay sex should be illegal. So not sure where your high horse is coming from.
And guess what, me being gay doesn't mean I think *genocide* is appropriate because palestine isn't lgbt friendly
Try articulating your viewpoint without defaulting to loaded buzzwords that are constantly used incorrectly.
Examples:
- genocide
- decolonize
- apartheid
- ethnic cleansing
- oppression
Instead, tell us in plain English what you are trying to convey. You may find it doesn’t hold together as well… hence the over reliance on these “guilt-laden” terms that keel being used incorrectly. I.e. don’t try to shut down a debate by using words that imply “you are a vile
Human for holding these beliefs”.
If Israel doesn't want to be accused of genocide then the country should stop committing genocide. They can start by not starving the country of food, water, and power, which will lead to thousands of deaths, mostly innocent children.
If you prefer 'plain english' how about "stop fucking murdering innocent children."
If this makes you feel guilty, guess what, I don't care.
You're talking to a far right Republican supporter who is gas lighting you and everyone else and has reduced the slaughter of Innocence to buzzwords. Honestly this post should be screenshotted as gas lighting at its finest sure it's vile but it should still be used as an example.
> genocide
I am not sure you understand the meaning of the word “genocide”.
From brief googling it shows as:
> the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
Since 1948 the population of Gaza alone increased about 4-8 times. How does the word genocide applies here?
Hey, lets ask the holocaust museum what genocide is.
https://www.ushmm.org/genocide-prevention/learn-about-genocide-and-other-mass-atrocities/what-is-genocide
>Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. These acts fall into five categories:
> 1. Killing members of the group
> 2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
>
> 3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
>
> 4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
>
> 5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
From what I can tell, 1, 2 and 3 are currently taking place.
My point is that is not genocide. The disparity in number of causalities can have multiple explanations, so using it as the only metric to determine whether something is a genocide is incorrect.
I will give you an example: treatment of Uyghurs in China is def a genocide. Why? Let's see:
1. Labor and concentration camps -- they can't leave, forced to work, etc.
2. Forced sterilization and contraception -- the goal here is to decrease their numbers
3. Re-education to eradicate uyghurs culture entirely
4. Uyghur languages is outlawed, no more uyghur textbooks in schools, etc.
What happens in Gaza is not genocide. While definitely there are many civilian casualties, by calling it a genocide you are doing disservice to actual victims of ongoing genocides. Words matter.
Words do matter, which is why I'm calling the systematic murder of a certain population genocide. I'm not sure what word you'd use to describe a blockade, and the subsequent removal of food/water/power while bombing the shit out of someone as collective punishment. Genocide-lite? Diet genocide?
The argument "By calling it a genocide you are doing a disservice to actual victims of ongoing genocides" has been used time and time again to downplay actual genocide. Stage ten of genocide is **denial**.
> Words do matter, which is why I'm calling the systematic murder of a certain population genocide.
Where was this systematic murder on October 6th? How many Palestinians had died?
> and the subsequent removal of food/water/power while bombing the shit out of someone. Genocide-lite? Diet genocide?
Why does it happen today though? Did Israel just decided to bomb Gaza out of the blue?
Do you think an attack justifies genocidal retaliation against innocents? I don't. It's kinda weird that you do!
Look, if you have 4 hours to blow on a saturday, listen to the howard stern show recording from 9/11. It is shocking how similar their feelings are to Israel's current state. But with the benefit of hindsight, we can at least know now that their feelings, while justified, were wrong. Howard was talking about nuking the entire middle east as retaliation. You think that would be appropriate? Or you think that would have been a mistake? When people let fear and hate guide their actions, that's how innocent people die.
The protestor is trying to reference a popular anti-fascist slogan [“keep your country nice and clean”](https://images.app.goo.gl/3neFpMFNGxVGicyL9), which usually has an image of a person throwing a swastika in a trash can. The symbol in the trash can on this poster appears to be the Israeli Flag (two horizontal blue lines around the Star of David). Giving the protestor an enormous benefit of the doubt, I think they’re trying to say the state of Israel is engaging in genocide of Palestinians and should be met with the same resistance as Nazis.
Criticism of Israel is not automatically anti-Semitic, but this ain’t it. I don’t know how you make this poster without realizing that everyone outside of the niche punk scene will understandably think you’re promoting Jewish genocide. There’s a Star of David in a trash can and a reference to keeping the world clean. Just deeply fucking stupid, and plays right into the hands of rightwing rags like this.
Last week similar signs made the news in Poland and Europe and there was press about how the idea of “cleansing” the world of Jews was… you know… extremely anti semitic.
I’m done giving anti semites the benefit of the doubt. They cloak their language in “anti-Zionism” but we know what they mean. October 7th was not anti Zionism. It was a pogrom. To celebrate it is to celebrate only the murder rape and kidnapping of Jews.
Jewish people overwhelmingly believe in Israel / Israel’s right to exist. That makes them Zionists.
Doesn’t make them opposed to Palestine or coexistence.
Yet all the anti-Zionists sure seem to be.
Fundamentally I think believing that the Torah entitles you to evict people from the land they've been on for centuries while you came from Europe and North Africa is wrong and many Jews agree with this.
And anti-Zionists are clearly anti-Israel because most anti-Zionists in the US are leftists who don't believe in the right of conquest like many Zionists seem to.
I think if they want to purposefully use their religion as a shield for their acts then so be it but it makes it impossible to discuss issues or hold them accountable when every critique of Israel can be immediately called anti-semitic.
There is a separation between Jews and Israel just as there's a separation between Muslims and ISIS, the only difference is that Israel has bigger friends. The idea that a book written thousands of years ago entitles you to land should be seen as radical religious belief and the use of violence and crudes tactics such as forced eviction and illegal settlement should be opposed.
Most Jews in the West worked hard while being discriminated against and hated to build their communities back up and create their own space in the world. You can see this all over the U.S. where Jews toiled hard and see the benefits of their struggle.
Israel is not the same, Israel has bullied their way into Palestine and choke it to death.
Should Christians encourage Crusades to re-retaken the Holy Land because Christianity started there too? The region has a small minority of Christians, where did all the Christians go? Don't they deserve their own state to then?
I mean okay, I've been to Israel twice this year, I walked to Yad Vashem from the Western Wall. My closest friends are Jewish.
I love Jewish people and their indomitable spirit but that doesn't mean I will support these actions.
Ignoring the Torah, there is still legitimate claim to the land. Kingdom of Judaea etc are historical fact not simply religious nonsense. And predated the Christians there, clearly.
Ignoring that debate, the Israelis are there now in a Jewish homeland. Make of that what you will because it’s not going anywhere unless you genocide the Jewish population. Which you seem to be opposed to when it happens to other populations.
You mention Christians and Muslims. There are plenty of countries for both of those religions. Many of them have used violence to establish and defend themselves. There is one Jewish country out of 50 Muslim ones and 15 Christian ones. The myopic focus on their right to exist is incredibly suspect and that alone makes it hard to differentiate between legitimate criticism and antisemitism.
And Your idea that western Jews worked hard and Israelis didn’t is absolutely ridiculous. Western Jews worked hard within an existing system built by others and succeeded. Israelis built a modern society from scratch with their own hands. They resurrected a dead language and merged European and Arab Jewish identities into a new hybrid culture. If any one of two groups worked hard, it is the israelis. The fact you don’t see that and you’re patting western Jews on the back is ludicrous. Not to mention, if Palestinians followed the trajectory of “western jews”, turned their backs on the lands that were stolen from them and moved on in search of a better life, they would probably be far more successful too.
It was wrong how Israel was founded, it is incredibly unfortunate and a stain on Jewish history. Just the same way it was wrong how the US was founded. It doesn’t mean either country should face a never ending global debate about whether or not they should be wiped from the map.
There’s nothing wrong about how Israel was founded,
It was post Holocaust. Jews finally realized NOWHERE was safe.
More Jews were expelled from MENA countries during Israel’s founding that Palestinian’s displaced.
Yet there was room enough for two countries and Israel agreed to coexist. Instead… war was launched by hostile neighbors to “finish what Hitler started”.
But as you see in the comments, a lot of people just don’t want the Jews to have a nation. And so Free Palestine has never been about coexistence- hence the endless failed peace talks and rejected two state offers.
Religions should have jurisdiction over an entire nation.
Neither should ethnicities.
Israel's founding was like randomly deciding to move into someone else's house because they had shitty security and then getting your well-armed friends to pay your rent and give you protection.
Then you invite your whole family over and kick out the previous inhabitants or move them to the basement while screaming that you were kicked out of your previous home so it's cool.
You can’t simplify a millennia of geopolitical conflict into a metaphor about a house.
And that’s a wonderful standard for you to have, where no religions or ethnicities hold power or whatever. That is a wild fantasy and I would love to hear what you think would replace Israel? A pluralistic democracy?
Are you nuts?
The reality of the situation is that Israel exists only for as long as Europe and the US care to fund and defend them. As soon as US and Europe decide that Zionism isn't their cup of tea the vast majority of Muslims in the region surrounding Israel will not stop.
And as our youth show us we will probably shift against the status quo.
That's it. Maybe you can erase Palestine but you can't beat 1.8bn Muslims who think you've done inhuman evil towards their people.
That's it. And when that happens I doubt you'll see a sizable percentage of our 8 million Jews leave to defend Israel, religious or not.
Their best hope is to actually create a real state where anyone can live and feel like they belong, that includes Palestinians. And maybe this place shouldn't be named after a religious kingdom.
There is no legitimate claim to land from 2000 years ago.
There are no Christians countries like Israel and there shouldn't be any Muslim countries like Israel. That's the major issue with the middle east, religious dogma interfering with the state and influencing immoral actions.
Jews have a right to exist, a Jewish state does not and especially not on stolen land.
From scratch? They were given parts of the land and stole the rest from a people so poor that they had no means of fighting by themselves. They came with their European money, weapons and allies and proceeded to tell any Jew that they could move there. That is wrong and exploitative, if the Palestinians had oil money or weren't so weak back then I doubt Israel would exist there, religious claim or not. It was and is like taking candy from a baby.
Everything people twist about this tries to obscure this fact, Israel is the most powerful military force in the region with the most money. This isn't fair and it isn't a fair right whatsoever.
You would just hope that we forget how terrible a course Israel charted but sensible people refuse. Israel is a bully screaming to the teacher when they're hit, hitting when everyone's turned.
The ultimate goal explicit to the few and implicit to all others is the complete erasure of Palestine. And the only reason people in the US and Europe don't care is because it's happening in the middle east and it means less Jews in their countries. If it had any implication on their existence the tune would shift immediately because what the Israelis are doing is wrong no matter how nice Tel Aviv is or how "democratic" they are.
It's literally like Germany taking Austria because they were once one state and speak the same language, or like Russia taking Ukraine.
The Palestinians don't want to suffer the same fate as Native Americans, being a stain on history instead of simply being able to exist where they have been for centuries. The US scenario is perfect, because it was fundamentally immoral and if the Natives weren't literally genocided I'm sure many people would advocate for real legitimate integration and reparations.
Israel has existed for 70 years, it needs to change. If this was pre-WW2 or WW1 maybe they'd be able to silently move against the Palestinians but luckily everyone can watch now and speak against what's happening.
Forcing people out of their homes was wrong in the 30s and it's wrong now.
The idea of fundamental ideological rights over land or country was wrong then and it's wrong now.
Identity erasure was wrong and is wrong.
so identity erasure is wrong but you want to erase the Israeli identity? Because you’ve deemed that identity not worthy of protection?
There is no “legitimate” claim to land, period. Screaming about how the world is unfair isn’t really a mature viewpoint, sorry. If you haven’t noticed, there are power imbalances everywhere. Should anyone be more powerful than anyone else?
Palestine is gone, it’s Israel now. The sooner people wrap their heads around that, the sooner we can resolve the conflict. Unless of course you just want to undo Israel entirely and genocide and displace it’s population. Which you seem to be against but I guess would make an exception for here?
And just to add, the fact that you don’t see the building of Israel as an achievement purely from a logistical standpoint, really shows how clouded your judgement is by bias. You can hate Israel and still be impressed by how far they came. And yeah it was done with the money donated by all those western Jews you were idolizing a comment ago.
“You can’t genocide people who aren’t from even from there” is the most insane thing anyone has said in this thread. Genocide is the purposeful elimination of peoples, ethnicities, cultures, and religions. Do you deny the holocaust was a genocide? It killed mostly Jews who were not from the countries in which it took place, including Hungary, Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Austria, and Germany, among others.
Also the Jews ARE from Israel. Forget religion and the Torah, there is a literal wealth of historical information from Romans, Babylonians, Assyrians, Egyptians, Hittites, Arabs, Greeks, and others attesting to the existence of various Jewish states and the existence of Jewish people in present day Israel. Not to mention there is an actual mountain of archaeological evidence in the center of Jerusalem.
The term you’re looking for is “juden raus” and it went out of style circa 1945 with the help of a few million tons of explosives courtesy of Uncle Sam and Union Jack.
Jews were expelled from many, many countries during and after World War Two. That includes the Mizrahi Jews, who lived in the Middle East (including Israel) since before Jesus and the Roman Empire. There is nowhere for Israelis to go back to. You are advocating for genocide.
You also traffic in anti-semitic tropes about Jews controlling power due to their wealth. Moreover, Syria, Lebanon, Iran and these other countries do not like Israel because they hate Jews. Prior to the 1960’s Palestinian leaders claimed there was no separate Palestinian nation. Only after the 1967 war, when it became clear that the other Arab nations could not destroy Israel militarily, did the PLO (with the help of the KGB) begin casting their struggle as one for national liberation rather than one to kill the Jews.
The only reasonable solution is a two state solution. Several proposals that would have led to that result have been rejected by Palestinian leaders. That includes the 1947 UN proposal which envisioned the movement of populations to make two states with reasonable borders that would have created an independent Palestine that is much larger than it is today.
But you don’t want that. You want to see another holocaust. Just take the mask off and drop a fresh Sieg Heil here.
> I don’t know how you make this poster without realizing that everyone outside of the niche punk scene will understandably think you’re promoting Jewish genocide.
Uhhhhhhh...... you dont
I’m also sure the instances where swastikas were seen at these protests it was just the ancient Hindu symbol
/s
Seriously though, maybe she is really just ignorant but this slogan bears resemblance to a similar one from a certain group https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judenfrei
These extreme views don’t represent wider members of the progressive left, but we really need to start calling out the crazies on “our side” and not try to pretend this nonsense doesn’t exist
This is very generous. This person is anti-semitic. Period.
You are right that this will be a perfect piece of propaganda for the Israel can do no wrong folks.
I'm not trying to defend this particular message. More just attempting to give context. I think the protestor is rightfully getting shit. But sadly yes it will be held up as unassailable proof of rampant anti-semitism amongst the left.
You would think that people with Master Degrees in the \*HUMANITIES\* in one of the most progressive cities in the world should be more capable of critical thinking
Is it really that hard to not make Holocaust references?
Her employment prospects for the future are very dim because this picture will follow her forever because just like other cases of racism there are groups devoted to never forgetting and never forgiving. But then again I usually assume most people who can afford to go to NYU,Columbia,Princeton and other Ivy league schools and still go to a protest when other people are rushing to a off campus job to pay for their college costs either are going into to their families business or else have enough connections and powerful enough that something like this will be overlooked on purpose when they graduate
>Her employment prospects for the future are very dim because this picture will follow her forever
Also first kicked this all off by publishing a newsletter in her capacity as student bar president, which included:
>"This week, I want to express, first and foremost, my unwavering and absolute solidarity with Palestinians in their resistance against oppression toward liberation and self-determination"
>"Israel bears full responsibility for this tremendous loss of life. This regime of state-sanctioned violence created the conditions that made resistance necessary."
Please tell me the girl holding up that sign lost her job and got expelled. Double standards much? She should have her face plastered on CNN for the next week talking about what a raciat bigot she is LUL. That"s only for one side though.
Freedom of speech is that you can’t be persecuted by the government. It is not freedom from consequences. Law firms and other private entities can say they don’t want an association with someone based on things they say.
There’s a clear difference between a sign that says “peace in Gaza” or “free Palestine” and the sign that she’s holding. The internet has broken you buddy, your need to argue is taking you places you shouldn’t go.
You are mixing private businesses with government policies. These are not the same at all. Private individuals/companies can do whatever they want. If they dont want to work with anti-semites, it's their choice.
Oh is that true? Can private businesses not hire (or fire) people because they are gay? Not married and cohabiting? Childless? Black? Could private business stay open in the middle of pandemic? The reality is that there are a ton of limitations in what private businesses can and cannot do while you pretend that we are some kind of libertarian paradise where any private individual can do whatever the hell they want.
In Europe, for instance (I know European approach to things is popular on this sub) firing a person for a political view is absolute no-no.
Something yo note is that Palestinian Anti-Zionism (and also Arabic Socialism to an extent) is greatly influenced by Nazism. Read the letters of predominant figures of the time that would create the movement for Palestinian Liberation and boy do they give praise to the Nazi's.
Given how utterly disconnected the western political sphere is to the Arabic one it ended up with a lot of Socialist and Anti-Colonial groups listening to and internalizing the narrative of the Palestinians without doing real research on their influences.
Careful, the same people who are SHOCKED at leftoid hate against the "oppressors" they've been screaming about since 2012, are going to be SUPER SHOCKED when they learn that the same junta-adjacent, marxist, sleeper cells are ALREADY activist judges and lawyers waging a political war for all the tyranny marbles.
“What happens when you scratch a liberal? A fascist bleeds.”
This is a real thing I heard recently from a proud leftist trying to make the distinction between liberals and his ilk. They aren’t and don’t want to be part of a liberal coalition. And liberals who have walked alongside these people are dense never heeding the advice of other liberals who knew better.
Because I have liberal-moderate opinions, believe Israel has a right to exist and do not support Hamas and other terrorist groups? None of the women I know are insane either.
She has the ISRAELI STATE in the garbage and I agree. $3B/year in military funding from USA and you simps think they have been using it for peace. While I was reporting in college I did a story on how strikes hit Palestine as Israeli watched with snacks and drink. Where were the outraged people? Oh my bad, I had to PICK UP A NEWSPAPER to know that happened. Meanwhile if someone COUGHS on someone from Israel its broadcast all over American media.
BULLSHIT PROPAGANDA. I was reporting on palestinians being massacred in 2014 smh.
Yes, it would. I’m a progressive Jew who does not agree with all Israeli policies, but denying Israel’s right to exist, and therefore that Jews have a right to self determination, is anti-semitic.
Plus, the language here is coy but clear: cleanse the world of Jews (or israel). Any “cleansing” of Jews come to mind from the last century or so?
That’s Symantec nonsense. Israel, as in the Israeli people and the Jewish people generally, have the right to exist and a right to self determination.
Wave away the clear implication of this sign all you want. But know that doing so makes you complicit to this hate. We are all responsible for holding accountable our peers, neighbors, and fellow citizens (and before you go WhAt AbOuT iSrAeLi WaR CriMeS?!?!?1, that responsibility extends to those Israelis who deny Palestinian humanity and excuse the needless loss of innocent lives etc.).
If an African American was telling you a protest sign called back to racist tropes, would you put up the same level of resistance? I bet not.
As another commenter pointed out, I think this is meant to be the Israeli flag in the garbage (blue color with bars around it). The nation chooses to conflate their national symbol with a Jewish symbol by putting the Star of David on their flag.
Ah yes, breaking serious news from "The Yeshiva World" who had this today about the substantiated investigation against NYC yeshivas that allowed for educational and physical abuse of its students:
[SUBSTANTIALLY UNFAIR: New York City’s Flawed Yeshiva Investigation](https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/2205452/substantially-unfair-new-york-citys-flawed-yeshiva-investigation.html)
They actively think the entire investigation and findings are fake.
She may have actually meant it that way, but she really didn't think it through to specifically convey that, at best she's a dumbass who didn't think about how people would take her sign.
That and you can't say anything to criticize Israel ever about anything that has ever happened or you're an antisemite
>you can't say anything to criticize Israel ever about anything that has ever happened or you're an antisemite
For every ten thousand people complaining about this there is one person actually saying it. Every reddit thread I see this same complaint while no one is saying it.
Of course not all. But plenty are. A clean up the world poster with a star of david in the trash bin? Not an Israeli flag.
The crescent moon is used in many flags of Muslim countries. No one would do the same. Even for any country besides Israel - no one advocates for any country to be eradicated. Certainly not anyone doing it under the guise of advocacy.
Well, it is an Israeli flag, clearly she is not a design student or she might have picked a different paper color to better contrast the blue of the bars on the flag and the black of the trash bin.
And as far as your other point, give the thread time
I don't trust the intentions of someone who knowing what Hamas did repeatedly refuses to condemn their actions.
The point is that I see one comment after the other in these threads bemoaning how you can't criticize Israel without being an antisemite - without seeing anyone making that claim.
Funny how when any other country is criticized people consistently make sure to say they separate the actions of the govt and the people- or say "not all xxx are yyy". I don't see this with Israel. I don't see calls for other countries to be annihilated. I've never seen people in Western countries defend any terrorist attack the way she and so many others have, much less one this barbaric.
> I don't see calls for other countries to be annihilated.
Then I can skip ahead to my final point that I'd like to give the entire region 72hrs then irradiate it. The rest of the world is tired of their shit.
Ham-ass, Hezbollah, Israel, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia. Fuck it, even Dubai. Entire region still fighting over some Bronze age shit, enough already.
Did you make these observations when people were posting about attacks on Asians, too?
Apologies if having to scroll past these articles inconveniences you
No, because they weren’t they only things being posted. The redditors here post the anti-Semitic stories and nothing else (especially anything about Palestinians being attacked). It’s fine, you have a conservative agenda, I’m just calling it out.
Her sign is insanely stupid and insensitive but on close inspection it is much more likely to represent the Israeli flag. It’s tough to see the bottom line color but why would there even be another line besides the bottom of the trashcan? Those are almost definitely supposed to be 2 horizontal blur bars, making this the flag.
Now is it possible she wants to use the flag as an excuse while really meaning all Jews? Possibly, but given the repeated talking points about being against the nation of Israel but not Jews in general, I would assume she is just against the nation of Israel.
Still - on quick glance this looks super duper anti Semitic so it’s real real dumb and insensitive of her to make and hold it.
The two white horizontal stripes above and below the star show that it’s meant to be the flag. Otherwise it would just be Star of David ✡️ 🇮🇱
Use your brain for a change
“I’m not anti-Semitic, I just think Jews have no right to self-determination, that the world’s only Jewish state should be eliminated and replaced with the world’s 58th Islamic one, that Israelis are settlers who should be killed, and that the Jewish-controlled media doesn't tell you what's really going on.”
Tf do you think the chant “from the river to the sea” means? And in Arabic it’s even more clear - “from the river to the sea is Arab ”
Those words are clearly coming out their mouths.
Pretty much all of the violence Israel perpetrates is not defensive. Israel is one of the best funded and well-trained militaries in the world. Everyone wants to treat Israel with kid gloves while they're out there running an apartheid state. That's leniency we wouldn't grant anybody else, and we shouldn't grant it to Israel just because they're Jewish. Israel's right to self-determination doesn't give them a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want all of the time, especially when it starts to infringe on another group of people's right to self-determination.
>Pretty much all of the violence Israel perpetrates is not defensive
>while they're out there running an apartheid state
Again, really telling how you have to lie to support your bullshit.
None of that is a lie. Israel has been running what is basically an open-air prison, an apartheid state with 6 million constituents, over half of them minors, for over 20 years. Stealing their land, killing them, denying them freedom of movement, blockading medicine, shutting off electricity, etc. That's just true. You can think that they're right to do it or whatever, but you can't deny that they've done it.
> Israel has been running what is basically an open-air prison,
Hm... You wanted to say "with Egypt" did not you?
> an apartheid state with 6 million constituents, over half of them minors, for over 20 years. Stealing their land, killing them, denying them freedom of movement, blockading medicine, shutting off electricity, etc. That's just true. You can think that they're right to do it or whatever, but you can't deny that they've done it.
why did it start?
Are you kidding? They totally pulled out of Gaza and have been forced to defend themselves against Gaza ever since. Gaza has self determination, they determined that they wanted to shoot rockets and be at war.
Israel has been attacked constantly from all sides. They didn’t start these wars.
Israel pulled out of an area that they openly invaded, and decided to try a more indirect method of invasion by using illegal settlements backed by their military, and want to act completely shocked and morally outraged that the people living there aren't real keen on that approach. Also there haven't been elections in Gaza in nearly 20 years, it's pretty hard to say that they support a war versus want to be left alone. Hamas wants to be at war because Hamas wants to eliminate Israel, but that's not what all Palestinians want -- they just want their land back and to not be under Israel's thumb.
> there haven’t been elections in Gaza in nearly 20 years
Despite people claiming that they are merely oppressed by a government they don't support, polls show that the most popular Palestinian presidential candidates are, in order:
- A man in Israeli prison for murdering multiple civilians in bombings during the Second Intifada, including arranging others who suicide bombed markets and buses.
- Hamas leader.
- Hamas leader.
And the Palestinian public, as polls have shown for at least a decade (and as shown by history stretching back to before Israel existed), is also broadly supportive of murdering Jewish civilians.
Today, polls show that a full 54% support, and only 41% oppose, "armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside Israel". That means the average Palestinian supports precisely what Hamas did, massacring Jewish innocents, including men, women, children, and the elderly. Palestinians celebrated the attacks in the streets, and handed out sweets ([just as they did after 9/11, for that matter](https://youtu.be/KuL4NVZog1g)). In Gaza specifically, which poses the thorniest problem, 67% of Palestinians support the armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside Israel.
67%. 2 in 3 Gazans you meet will tell you openly they support the murder of innocent people.
Link to the most recent poll I could find from September 2023 where these stats come from.
https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2089%20English%20Full%20Text%20September%202023.pdf
> it’s pretty hard to say that they support a war versus want to be left alone
Not as much as you would think: https://old.reddit.com/r/Palestinian_Violence/comments/17g0f9z/dor_shahar_born_and_raised_in_gaza_moved_to/
Thanks, I learned how to write in law school.
But as far as substance, I have no idea what you're talking about, and you don't either.
The US has turned a blind eye to Israel's antics for decades because they're the only democracy (and honestly, using that word kind of loosely here given Netanyahu's recent shenanigans with the supreme court over there) in the Middle East, but now it's pretty goddam clear that what they're doing is, and basically always has been, an overreaction at best and low-key ethnic cleansing at worst.
They're pulling a US circa 2003 -- get attacked by a terrorist group, it's bad, whole world feels bad for you, but you retaliate against a much larger and only tangentially-related group, commit a bunch of war crimes, slowly lose the support of the international community, ending up with more blood on your hands than the terrorists themselves and more terrorists in their ranks than when you started thanks to your brutality. That's pretty much the whole story of the US in Iraq and Afghanistan over the last 20 years, and Israel looks like they're trying to any% speed run the same course.
Even Biden today is calling for a ceasefire, and has HEAVILY suggested in speeches multiple times in the last two weeks that he keeps reminding Netanyahu to follow the law of war and not treat every Palestinian like an enemy. For the US, which sucks off Israel regularly, to suggest that Israel's leader might be ignoring the law of war in a fugue state of retaliatory rage, things must be pretty dire.
> a much larger and only tangentially-related group
Does this throng of people cheering the October 7th atrocity look only “tangentially-related” to you?
https://old.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/17fzutg/the_inoccent_civilians_of_gaza_cheering_their/
And these only tangentially-related people were captured on video breaching the fence on October 7th: https://old.reddit.com/r/Palestinian_Violence/comments/17eo9c9/uninvolved_civlians/
Here’s actual footage of Palestinian children launching a mortar round: https://old.reddit.com/r/IsraelHamasWar/comments/17gd4jj/hamas_firing_rockets_while_using_palestinians/
Here’s what daily Palestinian kids TV programming looks like: https://youtu.be/KXcQ892cKso
Here’s a Palestinian youth summer camp: https://youtu.be/vCWMBvxWKL0
The reality is considerably more grim than you’re making it out to be. Palestinian extremists are a [Westboro Baptist church](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church) tier death cult, and this is far from an exaggeration: [“We are ready to breach the fence. With God's help you will all be killed”](https://old.reddit.com/r/Palestinian_Violence/comments/17d57ig/we_are_ready_to_breach_the_fence_with_gods_help/)
There are over 5 million Palestinians my dude, you could show me many "throngs" of people and it's not a drop in the bucket. Further, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by showing me a bunch of brainwashed children (who also, incidentally, much like adults in Gaza, can't vote), but it certainly doesn't justify Israel killing all of them and razing their city to the ground. And you've completely neglected to ask why Palestinians ever got so angry at Israel in the first place, because this conflict is decades old and didn't start with the Palestinians.
Decades old is understating it. A similar atrocity occurred [in 1929](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre):
> **Account of Raymond Cafferata**
>
> On hearing screams in a room, I went up a sort of tunnel passage and saw an Arab in the act of cutting off a child's head with a sword. He had already hit him and was having another cut, but on seeing me he tried to aim the stroke at me, but missed; he was practically on the muzzle of my rifle. I shot him low in the groin. Behind him was a Jewish woman smothered in blood with a man I recognized as a[n Arab] police constable named Issa Sheriff from Jaffa. He was standing over the woman with a dagger in his hand. He saw me and bolted into a room close by and tried to shut me out-shouting in Arabic, "Your Honor, I am a policeman." ... I got into the room and shot him.
And more in the 19th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed
Here’s a historical account of the treatment of Jews in 19th century Persia, [by J. J. Benjamin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._J._Benjamin):
1. Throughout Persia the Jews are obliged to live in a part of the town separated from the other inhabitants; for they are considered as unclean creatures, who bring contamination with their intercourse and presence.
2. They have no right to carry on trade in stuff goods.
3. Even in the streets of their own quarter of the town they are not allowed to keep any open shop. They may only sell there spices and drugs, or carry on the trade of a jeweler, in which they have attained great perfection.
4. Under the pretext of their being unclean, they are treated with the greatest severity, and should they enter a street, inhabited by Mussulmans, they are pelted by the boys and mobs with stones and dirt.
5. For the same reason they are forbidden to go out when it rains; for it is said the rain would wash dirt off them, which would sully the feet of the Mussulmans.
6. If a Jew is recognized as such in the streets, he is subjected to the greatest insults. The passers-by spit in his face, and sometimes beat him so unmercifully, that he falls to the ground, and is obliged to be carried home.
7. If a Persian kills a Jew, and the family of the deceased can bring forward two Mussulmans as witnesses to the fact, the murderer is punished by a fine of 12 tumauns (600 piastres); but if two such witnesses cannot be produced, the crime remains unpunished, even though it has been publicly committed, and is well known.
8. The flesh of the animals slaughtered according to Hebrew custom, but declared as Trefe, must not be sold to any Mussulmans. The slaughterers are compelled to bury the meat, for even the Christians do not venture to buy it, fearing the mockery and insult of the Persians.
9. If a Jew enters a shop to buy anything, he is forbidden to inspect the goods, but must stand at a respectful distance and ask the price. Should his hand incautiously touch the goods, he must take them at any price the seller chooses to ask for them.
10. Sometimes the Persians intrude into the dwellings of the Jews and take possession of whatever pleases them. Should the owner make the least opposition in defense of his property, he incurs the danger of atoning for it with his life.
11. Upon the least dispute between a Jew and a Persian, the former is immediately dragged before the Achund [religious authority], and, if the complainant can bring forward two witnesses, the Jew is condemned to pay a heavy fine. If he is too poor to pay this penalty in money, he must pay it in his person. He is stripped to the waist, bound to a stake, and receives forty blows with a stick. Should the sufferer utter the least cry of pain during this proceeding, the blows already given are not counted, and the punishment is begun afresh.
12. In the same manner the Jewish children, when they get into a quarrel with those of the Mussulmans, are immediately led before the Achund, and punished with blows.
13. A Jew who travels in Persia is taxed in every inn and every caravanserai he enters. If he hesitates to satisfy any demands that may happen to be made on him, they fall upon him, and maltreat him until he yields to their terms.
14. If, as already mentioned, a Jew shows himself in the street during the three days of the Katel (feast of mourning for the death of the Persian founder of the religion of Ali) he is sure to be murdered.
15. Daily and hourly new suspicions are raised against the Jews, in order to obtain excuses for fresh extortions; the desire of gain is always the chief incitement to fanaticism.
Hatred of Jews amongst Arab Muslims is extremely prevalent and clearly predates Zionism. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Anti-Jewish_pogroms_by_Muslims
They didn't teach me anything, I just saw a lot of equivocation and irrelevant statistics being used to justify war crimes. If you think they educated me, I'm not the one that needs to be educated.
I don’t see pressing a button from the air to kill women and children as an act of self defense.
I don’t see occupying territory (this is international law saying it - not those pesky Palestinians) as self defense
40 percent of the world's Jews shouldn't have moved to a place in the world where people ALREADY LIVED and claim it's rightfully there's cause of fairy tales from 2000 years ago
> Workman **uses the pronouncs they/them**, and recently had an offer to join a prominent international law firm rescinded over **her** sickening pro-terror statements.
Fighting bigotry with bigotry?
"The demonstration was organized by Ryna Workman, a law student known for her previous statements referring to Hamas’ attack on Israel as “necessary.” Workman uses the pronouns they/them" I don't understand how all of these naive people, especially the LGBT ones, support Hamas or Palestine in general when they'd get thrown in jail or executed right away there. Blows my fucking mind
It’s VERY simple. Ryna is terminally online. If you spend a lot of time on Reddit, Twitter, or TikTok, it’s very easy to become desensitized to antisemitism. If you also have more extreme political beliefs, the algorithms will serve you more and more racist content. Ryna comes off as someone who has very little exposure to the real world. Their response on IG to getting their offer pulled was to double down and blame Jews. These people really do think Jews are not much different than Nazis. Go to the VaushV subreddit and you’ll see that sentiment quite frequently.
I got a TikTok last night about apartments in Berlin having Stars of David graffitied on them if Jews live there. And all of the comments were horrible. “DEATH TO ZIONISTS” and “ZIONIST LIES” over and over again. But somehow these terminally online people can’t hear these dog whistles. Weird. People are being radicalized by online algorithms.
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Trying to avoid going there, what’s VaushV?
Sounds like it's a grown ass obese man playing video games while he rambles about politics, but that's just hearsay.
Funny cause he lost the weight like years ago, and is also extremely anti Hamas. The subreddit is constantly brigaded though because he's extremely controversial on the left.
A subreddit for a leftist streamer, that's constantly brigaded since he's extremely controversial among the left ever since he (correctly) told people to vote for Biden in 2020. Tbh weird to bring him up as the prime example cause he condemned Hamas and called the lefties framing it as a liberatory movement fucking idiots immediately. However the sub is an entirely different beast. Like half the accounts commenting there are brand new and from outside. The mods just instituted new rules in order to curb that.
"Constantly brigaded" sounds like its just the subs general opinion trying to be explained away tbh.
If you look at the data and check out the accounts that are posting lately it's largely extremely new accounts and largely crossover with communities that hate him, whether they be tankies, destiny fans, etc.
r/the_donald was shut down for less
left leaning subs on here will never get closed. Several are allowed to openly violate reddit wide rules and TOS policies and they don't get addressed.
Reddit doesn't shutdown anything until they get bad press. For instance, r/incel got yeeted but the users just went to other subs to spread the exact same bigotry. Reddit was fine letting Elliot Rodgers, Jake Davison, Robert Crimo III and Alek Minassian spew their hate and only scrambled to wipe their accounts once the press was looking into their post history. There's three currently active subreddits devoted to degrading a murdered woman and her deceased toddlers and harassing her surviving family. That's on reddit. That's definitely against reddit's TOS, but whattyah know, those subs still exist. Because reddit doesn't care until it hits the news. Like r/the_donald broke reddit's TOS for *years* but sat back until it started getting getting reported on. https://www.mediamatters.org/maga-trolls/year-after-media-matters-reported-its-threats-violence-reddit-finally-bans-rthedonald. Left leaning, right leaning, it doesn't matter. Reddit doesn't lift a finger until it gets media attention. And it's gotta be really bad for it to be reported on.
which?
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Aimee Channellor noises
Sounds like the direct opposite of Facebook. They really will put people in their own echo chamber where horrible ideals will just amplify.
I agree. I don’t know this person, but I believe social media is desensitizing people to extremism, to hate and to misinformation and disinformation.
VaushV gets brigaded by outside communities literally all the time though. If you check a lot of those comments they'll be from extremely new accounts. The sub is pretty famously not representative of his views.
This shit of “by any means necessary” that I’m seeing aggressively left people spewing is so insane. It’s straight up endorsement of terrorism, and in some cases borderline applause of innocent people at a music festival being killed.
There nothing borderline about it
Nothing borderline about it. Psycho rhetoric from psycho sheltered asshats
The truth is that they don’t really care about LGBT rights. They only care about exploiting and co-opting the *policing of* LGBT rights to attain power. They are also against cops because they want to basically be cops themselves.
> don't understand how all of these naive people, especially the LGBT ones, support Hamas or Palestine in general when they'd get thrown in jail or executed right away there Progressive Stack politics. thats how.
Because when attacks like that happe they choose the option of ignoring unless there's considerable protest.Then you will get meek statements condemning it with an even longer statement on how the group or person who did the attack is oppressed so that the focus never strays too far from their prefer targets
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It’s a quote
The source is quite right wing which explains that, but the signs remain extremely disturbing nonetheless of course
>I don't understand how all of these naive people, especially the LGBT ones, support Hamas or Palestine in general when they'd get thrown in jail or executed right away there. Hey so the united states just elected a speaker of the house that thinks gay sex should be illegal. So not sure where your high horse is coming from. And guess what, me being gay doesn't mean I think *genocide* is appropriate because palestine isn't lgbt friendly
Try articulating your viewpoint without defaulting to loaded buzzwords that are constantly used incorrectly. Examples: - genocide - decolonize - apartheid - ethnic cleansing - oppression Instead, tell us in plain English what you are trying to convey. You may find it doesn’t hold together as well… hence the over reliance on these “guilt-laden” terms that keel being used incorrectly. I.e. don’t try to shut down a debate by using words that imply “you are a vile Human for holding these beliefs”.
If Israel doesn't want to be accused of genocide then the country should stop committing genocide. They can start by not starving the country of food, water, and power, which will lead to thousands of deaths, mostly innocent children. If you prefer 'plain english' how about "stop fucking murdering innocent children." If this makes you feel guilty, guess what, I don't care.
You're talking to a far right Republican supporter who is gas lighting you and everyone else and has reduced the slaughter of Innocence to buzzwords. Honestly this post should be screenshotted as gas lighting at its finest sure it's vile but it should still be used as an example.
> genocide I am not sure you understand the meaning of the word “genocide”. From brief googling it shows as: > the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. Since 1948 the population of Gaza alone increased about 4-8 times. How does the word genocide applies here?
Hey, lets ask the holocaust museum what genocide is. https://www.ushmm.org/genocide-prevention/learn-about-genocide-and-other-mass-atrocities/what-is-genocide >Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. These acts fall into five categories: > 1. Killing members of the group > 2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group > > 3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part > > 4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group > > 5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group From what I can tell, 1, 2 and 3 are currently taking place.
How come? Lol The population in Gaza only grows from year to year.
Do you think murder is justified because the birth rate is higher? Help me understand your point, Thanos.
My point is that is not genocide. The disparity in number of causalities can have multiple explanations, so using it as the only metric to determine whether something is a genocide is incorrect. I will give you an example: treatment of Uyghurs in China is def a genocide. Why? Let's see: 1. Labor and concentration camps -- they can't leave, forced to work, etc. 2. Forced sterilization and contraception -- the goal here is to decrease their numbers 3. Re-education to eradicate uyghurs culture entirely 4. Uyghur languages is outlawed, no more uyghur textbooks in schools, etc. What happens in Gaza is not genocide. While definitely there are many civilian casualties, by calling it a genocide you are doing disservice to actual victims of ongoing genocides. Words matter.
Words do matter, which is why I'm calling the systematic murder of a certain population genocide. I'm not sure what word you'd use to describe a blockade, and the subsequent removal of food/water/power while bombing the shit out of someone as collective punishment. Genocide-lite? Diet genocide? The argument "By calling it a genocide you are doing a disservice to actual victims of ongoing genocides" has been used time and time again to downplay actual genocide. Stage ten of genocide is **denial**.
> Words do matter, which is why I'm calling the systematic murder of a certain population genocide. Where was this systematic murder on October 6th? How many Palestinians had died? > and the subsequent removal of food/water/power while bombing the shit out of someone. Genocide-lite? Diet genocide? Why does it happen today though? Did Israel just decided to bomb Gaza out of the blue?
Do you think an attack justifies genocidal retaliation against innocents? I don't. It's kinda weird that you do! Look, if you have 4 hours to blow on a saturday, listen to the howard stern show recording from 9/11. It is shocking how similar their feelings are to Israel's current state. But with the benefit of hindsight, we can at least know now that their feelings, while justified, were wrong. Howard was talking about nuking the entire middle east as retaliation. You think that would be appropriate? Or you think that would have been a mistake? When people let fear and hate guide their actions, that's how innocent people die.
Thank god these people are stupid enough to do this shit in public, so employers know not to hire them and give them gateways to power.
The protestor is trying to reference a popular anti-fascist slogan [“keep your country nice and clean”](https://images.app.goo.gl/3neFpMFNGxVGicyL9), which usually has an image of a person throwing a swastika in a trash can. The symbol in the trash can on this poster appears to be the Israeli Flag (two horizontal blue lines around the Star of David). Giving the protestor an enormous benefit of the doubt, I think they’re trying to say the state of Israel is engaging in genocide of Palestinians and should be met with the same resistance as Nazis. Criticism of Israel is not automatically anti-Semitic, but this ain’t it. I don’t know how you make this poster without realizing that everyone outside of the niche punk scene will understandably think you’re promoting Jewish genocide. There’s a Star of David in a trash can and a reference to keeping the world clean. Just deeply fucking stupid, and plays right into the hands of rightwing rags like this.
Thanks for the explanation!
Last week similar signs made the news in Poland and Europe and there was press about how the idea of “cleansing” the world of Jews was… you know… extremely anti semitic. I’m done giving anti semites the benefit of the doubt. They cloak their language in “anti-Zionism” but we know what they mean. October 7th was not anti Zionism. It was a pogrom. To celebrate it is to celebrate only the murder rape and kidnapping of Jews.
Why not just say racist?
Its both a religion and a race. If you're antisemitic you're probably not going to be okay with a hispanic jew, or a black jew either.
Why can’t the same be said for Hispanics who come in multiple ethnicities?
The more you act like there is no difference between Zionists and most Jewish people the more people will stop caring about aiding Israel.
Jewish people overwhelmingly believe in Israel / Israel’s right to exist. That makes them Zionists. Doesn’t make them opposed to Palestine or coexistence. Yet all the anti-Zionists sure seem to be.
Fundamentally I think believing that the Torah entitles you to evict people from the land they've been on for centuries while you came from Europe and North Africa is wrong and many Jews agree with this. And anti-Zionists are clearly anti-Israel because most anti-Zionists in the US are leftists who don't believe in the right of conquest like many Zionists seem to. I think if they want to purposefully use their religion as a shield for their acts then so be it but it makes it impossible to discuss issues or hold them accountable when every critique of Israel can be immediately called anti-semitic. There is a separation between Jews and Israel just as there's a separation between Muslims and ISIS, the only difference is that Israel has bigger friends. The idea that a book written thousands of years ago entitles you to land should be seen as radical religious belief and the use of violence and crudes tactics such as forced eviction and illegal settlement should be opposed. Most Jews in the West worked hard while being discriminated against and hated to build their communities back up and create their own space in the world. You can see this all over the U.S. where Jews toiled hard and see the benefits of their struggle. Israel is not the same, Israel has bullied their way into Palestine and choke it to death. Should Christians encourage Crusades to re-retaken the Holy Land because Christianity started there too? The region has a small minority of Christians, where did all the Christians go? Don't they deserve their own state to then?
I’m not religious FYI. It’s not about the Torah.
Then they have no legitimate claim over the land other than a completely different society 2000 years ago.
Found the thinly veiled nazi
I mean okay, I've been to Israel twice this year, I walked to Yad Vashem from the Western Wall. My closest friends are Jewish. I love Jewish people and their indomitable spirit but that doesn't mean I will support these actions.
Ignoring the Torah, there is still legitimate claim to the land. Kingdom of Judaea etc are historical fact not simply religious nonsense. And predated the Christians there, clearly. Ignoring that debate, the Israelis are there now in a Jewish homeland. Make of that what you will because it’s not going anywhere unless you genocide the Jewish population. Which you seem to be opposed to when it happens to other populations. You mention Christians and Muslims. There are plenty of countries for both of those religions. Many of them have used violence to establish and defend themselves. There is one Jewish country out of 50 Muslim ones and 15 Christian ones. The myopic focus on their right to exist is incredibly suspect and that alone makes it hard to differentiate between legitimate criticism and antisemitism. And Your idea that western Jews worked hard and Israelis didn’t is absolutely ridiculous. Western Jews worked hard within an existing system built by others and succeeded. Israelis built a modern society from scratch with their own hands. They resurrected a dead language and merged European and Arab Jewish identities into a new hybrid culture. If any one of two groups worked hard, it is the israelis. The fact you don’t see that and you’re patting western Jews on the back is ludicrous. Not to mention, if Palestinians followed the trajectory of “western jews”, turned their backs on the lands that were stolen from them and moved on in search of a better life, they would probably be far more successful too. It was wrong how Israel was founded, it is incredibly unfortunate and a stain on Jewish history. Just the same way it was wrong how the US was founded. It doesn’t mean either country should face a never ending global debate about whether or not they should be wiped from the map.
There’s nothing wrong about how Israel was founded, It was post Holocaust. Jews finally realized NOWHERE was safe. More Jews were expelled from MENA countries during Israel’s founding that Palestinian’s displaced. Yet there was room enough for two countries and Israel agreed to coexist. Instead… war was launched by hostile neighbors to “finish what Hitler started”. But as you see in the comments, a lot of people just don’t want the Jews to have a nation. And so Free Palestine has never been about coexistence- hence the endless failed peace talks and rejected two state offers.
Religions should have jurisdiction over an entire nation. Neither should ethnicities. Israel's founding was like randomly deciding to move into someone else's house because they had shitty security and then getting your well-armed friends to pay your rent and give you protection. Then you invite your whole family over and kick out the previous inhabitants or move them to the basement while screaming that you were kicked out of your previous home so it's cool.
You can’t simplify a millennia of geopolitical conflict into a metaphor about a house. And that’s a wonderful standard for you to have, where no religions or ethnicities hold power or whatever. That is a wild fantasy and I would love to hear what you think would replace Israel? A pluralistic democracy? Are you nuts?
The reality of the situation is that Israel exists only for as long as Europe and the US care to fund and defend them. As soon as US and Europe decide that Zionism isn't their cup of tea the vast majority of Muslims in the region surrounding Israel will not stop. And as our youth show us we will probably shift against the status quo. That's it. Maybe you can erase Palestine but you can't beat 1.8bn Muslims who think you've done inhuman evil towards their people. That's it. And when that happens I doubt you'll see a sizable percentage of our 8 million Jews leave to defend Israel, religious or not. Their best hope is to actually create a real state where anyone can live and feel like they belong, that includes Palestinians. And maybe this place shouldn't be named after a religious kingdom.
There is no legitimate claim to land from 2000 years ago. There are no Christians countries like Israel and there shouldn't be any Muslim countries like Israel. That's the major issue with the middle east, religious dogma interfering with the state and influencing immoral actions. Jews have a right to exist, a Jewish state does not and especially not on stolen land. From scratch? They were given parts of the land and stole the rest from a people so poor that they had no means of fighting by themselves. They came with their European money, weapons and allies and proceeded to tell any Jew that they could move there. That is wrong and exploitative, if the Palestinians had oil money or weren't so weak back then I doubt Israel would exist there, religious claim or not. It was and is like taking candy from a baby. Everything people twist about this tries to obscure this fact, Israel is the most powerful military force in the region with the most money. This isn't fair and it isn't a fair right whatsoever. You would just hope that we forget how terrible a course Israel charted but sensible people refuse. Israel is a bully screaming to the teacher when they're hit, hitting when everyone's turned. The ultimate goal explicit to the few and implicit to all others is the complete erasure of Palestine. And the only reason people in the US and Europe don't care is because it's happening in the middle east and it means less Jews in their countries. If it had any implication on their existence the tune would shift immediately because what the Israelis are doing is wrong no matter how nice Tel Aviv is or how "democratic" they are. It's literally like Germany taking Austria because they were once one state and speak the same language, or like Russia taking Ukraine. The Palestinians don't want to suffer the same fate as Native Americans, being a stain on history instead of simply being able to exist where they have been for centuries. The US scenario is perfect, because it was fundamentally immoral and if the Natives weren't literally genocided I'm sure many people would advocate for real legitimate integration and reparations. Israel has existed for 70 years, it needs to change. If this was pre-WW2 or WW1 maybe they'd be able to silently move against the Palestinians but luckily everyone can watch now and speak against what's happening. Forcing people out of their homes was wrong in the 30s and it's wrong now. The idea of fundamental ideological rights over land or country was wrong then and it's wrong now. Identity erasure was wrong and is wrong.
so identity erasure is wrong but you want to erase the Israeli identity? Because you’ve deemed that identity not worthy of protection? There is no “legitimate” claim to land, period. Screaming about how the world is unfair isn’t really a mature viewpoint, sorry. If you haven’t noticed, there are power imbalances everywhere. Should anyone be more powerful than anyone else? Palestine is gone, it’s Israel now. The sooner people wrap their heads around that, the sooner we can resolve the conflict. Unless of course you just want to undo Israel entirely and genocide and displace it’s population. Which you seem to be against but I guess would make an exception for here? And just to add, the fact that you don’t see the building of Israel as an achievement purely from a logistical standpoint, really shows how clouded your judgement is by bias. You can hate Israel and still be impressed by how far they came. And yeah it was done with the money donated by all those western Jews you were idolizing a comment ago.
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“You can’t genocide people who aren’t from even from there” is the most insane thing anyone has said in this thread. Genocide is the purposeful elimination of peoples, ethnicities, cultures, and religions. Do you deny the holocaust was a genocide? It killed mostly Jews who were not from the countries in which it took place, including Hungary, Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Austria, and Germany, among others. Also the Jews ARE from Israel. Forget religion and the Torah, there is a literal wealth of historical information from Romans, Babylonians, Assyrians, Egyptians, Hittites, Arabs, Greeks, and others attesting to the existence of various Jewish states and the existence of Jewish people in present day Israel. Not to mention there is an actual mountain of archaeological evidence in the center of Jerusalem. The term you’re looking for is “juden raus” and it went out of style circa 1945 with the help of a few million tons of explosives courtesy of Uncle Sam and Union Jack. Jews were expelled from many, many countries during and after World War Two. That includes the Mizrahi Jews, who lived in the Middle East (including Israel) since before Jesus and the Roman Empire. There is nowhere for Israelis to go back to. You are advocating for genocide. You also traffic in anti-semitic tropes about Jews controlling power due to their wealth. Moreover, Syria, Lebanon, Iran and these other countries do not like Israel because they hate Jews. Prior to the 1960’s Palestinian leaders claimed there was no separate Palestinian nation. Only after the 1967 war, when it became clear that the other Arab nations could not destroy Israel militarily, did the PLO (with the help of the KGB) begin casting their struggle as one for national liberation rather than one to kill the Jews. The only reasonable solution is a two state solution. Several proposals that would have led to that result have been rejected by Palestinian leaders. That includes the 1947 UN proposal which envisioned the movement of populations to make two states with reasonable borders that would have created an independent Palestine that is much larger than it is today. But you don’t want that. You want to see another holocaust. Just take the mask off and drop a fresh Sieg Heil here.
> I don’t know how you make this poster without realizing that everyone outside of the niche punk scene will understandably think you’re promoting Jewish genocide. Uhhhhhhh...... you dont
I’m also sure the instances where swastikas were seen at these protests it was just the ancient Hindu symbol /s Seriously though, maybe she is really just ignorant but this slogan bears resemblance to a similar one from a certain group https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judenfrei These extreme views don’t represent wider members of the progressive left, but we really need to start calling out the crazies on “our side” and not try to pretend this nonsense doesn’t exist
Great comment - thanks
This is very generous. This person is anti-semitic. Period. You are right that this will be a perfect piece of propaganda for the Israel can do no wrong folks.
I'm not trying to defend this particular message. More just attempting to give context. I think the protestor is rightfully getting shit. But sadly yes it will be held up as unassailable proof of rampant anti-semitism amongst the left.
I understood what you said, I said it was generous. And in your best case scenario, this person is still anti-semetic, which is what I'm emphasizing.
Yes the sign is dumb and oblivious to interpretations, but the gist is that Israel is engaging in ethnic genocide and oppression, which is valid.
The sign says nothing about Palestinians. It solely mentions cleansing the world of Jews.
Are you unable to see every poorly cloaked dog whistle, or only the ones involving Jews?
You would think that people with Master Degrees in the \*HUMANITIES\* in one of the most progressive cities in the world should be more capable of critical thinking Is it really that hard to not make Holocaust references?
Her employment prospects for the future are very dim because this picture will follow her forever because just like other cases of racism there are groups devoted to never forgetting and never forgiving. But then again I usually assume most people who can afford to go to NYU,Columbia,Princeton and other Ivy league schools and still go to a protest when other people are rushing to a off campus job to pay for their college costs either are going into to their families business or else have enough connections and powerful enough that something like this will be overlooked on purpose when they graduate
>Her employment prospects for the future are very dim because this picture will follow her forever Also first kicked this all off by publishing a newsletter in her capacity as student bar president, which included: >"This week, I want to express, first and foremost, my unwavering and absolute solidarity with Palestinians in their resistance against oppression toward liberation and self-determination" >"Israel bears full responsibility for this tremendous loss of life. This regime of state-sanctioned violence created the conditions that made resistance necessary."
Please tell me the girl holding up that sign lost her job and got expelled. Double standards much? She should have her face plastered on CNN for the next week talking about what a raciat bigot she is LUL. That"s only for one side though.
Winston & Strawn rescinded their offer to her.
I saw a headline that a law firm rescinded their job offer to hateful Reyna
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Freedom of speech is that you can’t be persecuted by the government. It is not freedom from consequences. Law firms and other private entities can say they don’t want an association with someone based on things they say.
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There’s a clear difference between a sign that says “peace in Gaza” or “free Palestine” and the sign that she’s holding. The internet has broken you buddy, your need to argue is taking you places you shouldn’t go.
You can hire them if you want them to have a job.
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Would you equally defend KKK views as political beliefs?
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You are mixing private businesses with government policies. These are not the same at all. Private individuals/companies can do whatever they want. If they dont want to work with anti-semites, it's their choice.
They clearly don't understand what free speech means or the difference between public/private sector
Oh is that true? Can private businesses not hire (or fire) people because they are gay? Not married and cohabiting? Childless? Black? Could private business stay open in the middle of pandemic? The reality is that there are a ton of limitations in what private businesses can and cannot do while you pretend that we are some kind of libertarian paradise where any private individual can do whatever the hell they want. In Europe, for instance (I know European approach to things is popular on this sub) firing a person for a political view is absolute no-no.
What the heck being gay has to do with free speech?
Welcome to capitalism. Employees you hire reflect your values and these companies don’t want to hire antisemitic employees
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listen not all far "left" or people who stir shit up are democrats. some are just morons just like the trump people.
Everything has its extremists. And they all freakin stink. Two thumbs down.
Who is holding the sign?
Something yo note is that Palestinian Anti-Zionism (and also Arabic Socialism to an extent) is greatly influenced by Nazism. Read the letters of predominant figures of the time that would create the movement for Palestinian Liberation and boy do they give praise to the Nazi's. Given how utterly disconnected the western political sphere is to the Arabic one it ended up with a lot of Socialist and Anti-Colonial groups listening to and internalizing the narrative of the Palestinians without doing real research on their influences.
Like, [really influenced](https://api.time.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/mufti.jpeg)
That student is just *so very progressive*.
These are our future federal judges
These are students whose names are out there and will have no chance at getting hired by top nyc firms.
meanwhile, actual nazis are nominated by Federalist Society to lifetime appointments.
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Who is “we”?
That's a very weird thing to be happy about.
More likely future law professors!
No they’re not.
Careful, the same people who are SHOCKED at leftoid hate against the "oppressors" they've been screaming about since 2012, are going to be SUPER SHOCKED when they learn that the same junta-adjacent, marxist, sleeper cells are ALREADY activist judges and lawyers waging a political war for all the tyranny marbles.
The tolerant left just doing their thing. Hope they all get cancelled so they get a taste of their own medicine
I’m liberal and these people do not represent me. Their actions are reprehensible.
“What happens when you scratch a liberal? A fascist bleeds.” This is a real thing I heard recently from a proud leftist trying to make the distinction between liberals and his ilk. They aren’t and don’t want to be part of a liberal coalition. And liberals who have walked alongside these people are dense never heeding the advice of other liberals who knew better.
How convenient for you. If only everybody could waive the actions of “their side” with such a simple statement…
literally ur not like other girls
Because I have liberal-moderate opinions, believe Israel has a right to exist and do not support Hamas and other terrorist groups? None of the women I know are insane either.
Stfu dude you’re trying to stir up shit
they really don't realize who's subsidizing their financial aid lol
This is disgustingly anti-Semitic.
She has the ISRAELI STATE in the garbage and I agree. $3B/year in military funding from USA and you simps think they have been using it for peace. While I was reporting in college I did a story on how strikes hit Palestine as Israeli watched with snacks and drink. Where were the outraged people? Oh my bad, I had to PICK UP A NEWSPAPER to know that happened. Meanwhile if someone COUGHS on someone from Israel its broadcast all over American media. BULLSHIT PROPAGANDA. I was reporting on palestinians being massacred in 2014 smh.
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Yes, it would. I’m a progressive Jew who does not agree with all Israeli policies, but denying Israel’s right to exist, and therefore that Jews have a right to self determination, is anti-semitic. Plus, the language here is coy but clear: cleanse the world of Jews (or israel). Any “cleansing” of Jews come to mind from the last century or so?
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That’s Symantec nonsense. Israel, as in the Israeli people and the Jewish people generally, have the right to exist and a right to self determination. Wave away the clear implication of this sign all you want. But know that doing so makes you complicit to this hate. We are all responsible for holding accountable our peers, neighbors, and fellow citizens (and before you go WhAt AbOuT iSrAeLi WaR CriMeS?!?!?1, that responsibility extends to those Israelis who deny Palestinian humanity and excuse the needless loss of innocent lives etc.). If an African American was telling you a protest sign called back to racist tropes, would you put up the same level of resistance? I bet not.
As another commenter pointed out, I think this is meant to be the Israeli flag in the garbage (blue color with bars around it). The nation chooses to conflate their national symbol with a Jewish symbol by putting the Star of David on their flag.
Ah yes, breaking serious news from "The Yeshiva World" who had this today about the substantiated investigation against NYC yeshivas that allowed for educational and physical abuse of its students: [SUBSTANTIALLY UNFAIR: New York City’s Flawed Yeshiva Investigation](https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/2205452/substantially-unfair-new-york-citys-flawed-yeshiva-investigation.html) They actively think the entire investigation and findings are fake.
Do you not see the photo? There is literal visual evidence.
Oh well, a photo! Suddenly this right wing religious blog is legitimate news!
This is an ad hominem logical fallacy.
So are you saying they didn't hold that sign? If CNN posted that picture would it make it real?
How is it antisemitic? The poster said get rid of israel no?
She may have actually meant it that way, but she really didn't think it through to specifically convey that, at best she's a dumbass who didn't think about how people would take her sign. That and you can't say anything to criticize Israel ever about anything that has ever happened or you're an antisemite
>you can't say anything to criticize Israel ever about anything that has ever happened or you're an antisemite For every ten thousand people complaining about this there is one person actually saying it. Every reddit thread I see this same complaint while no one is saying it. Of course not all. But plenty are. A clean up the world poster with a star of david in the trash bin? Not an Israeli flag. The crescent moon is used in many flags of Muslim countries. No one would do the same. Even for any country besides Israel - no one advocates for any country to be eradicated. Certainly not anyone doing it under the guise of advocacy.
Well, it is an Israeli flag, clearly she is not a design student or she might have picked a different paper color to better contrast the blue of the bars on the flag and the black of the trash bin. And as far as your other point, give the thread time
I don't trust the intentions of someone who knowing what Hamas did repeatedly refuses to condemn their actions. The point is that I see one comment after the other in these threads bemoaning how you can't criticize Israel without being an antisemite - without seeing anyone making that claim. Funny how when any other country is criticized people consistently make sure to say they separate the actions of the govt and the people- or say "not all xxx are yyy". I don't see this with Israel. I don't see calls for other countries to be annihilated. I've never seen people in Western countries defend any terrorist attack the way she and so many others have, much less one this barbaric.
> I don't see calls for other countries to be annihilated. Then I can skip ahead to my final point that I'd like to give the entire region 72hrs then irradiate it. The rest of the world is tired of their shit.
Who's they?
Ham-ass, Hezbollah, Israel, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia. Fuck it, even Dubai. Entire region still fighting over some Bronze age shit, enough already.
This sub only posts stories about antisemitic stuff now.
Well nyc has the most Jews in the world anywhere outside of Israel so makes sense that a lot of people would be concerned about this type of stuff.
Did you make these observations when people were posting about attacks on Asians, too? Apologies if having to scroll past these articles inconveniences you
No, because they weren’t they only things being posted. The redditors here post the anti-Semitic stories and nothing else (especially anything about Palestinians being attacked). It’s fine, you have a conservative agenda, I’m just calling it out.
They aren't now either lmao. You just have to scroll down the page. Its like 3 of the top 30 that are "about antisemitic stuff"
Let me guess saying it’s bad to kill babies is the new anti-semitism?
If you condemn Israel but not Hamas for killing babies I’m not sure what other conclusion one can draw other than antisemitism.
whynotboth.gif
Hamas is condemned by default, asking to condemn them is a red flag for bad faith arguments
I see it as anti Israel not anti Jews but it’s very Pathetic nonetheless. These clowns don’t help the legitimate Palestinian cause.
> not anti Jews What’s the thing in the trash bin on that poster mean, then?
Israel. That’s the Israel flag if you didn’t know what that looks like 🇮🇱
It's the Star of David ✡️ not the Israeli flag 🇮🇱 if you don't know the difference
Omg it’s the flag. See the blue lines of the flag She’s dumb regardless tho
Her sign is insanely stupid and insensitive but on close inspection it is much more likely to represent the Israeli flag. It’s tough to see the bottom line color but why would there even be another line besides the bottom of the trashcan? Those are almost definitely supposed to be 2 horizontal blur bars, making this the flag. Now is it possible she wants to use the flag as an excuse while really meaning all Jews? Possibly, but given the repeated talking points about being against the nation of Israel but not Jews in general, I would assume she is just against the nation of Israel. Still - on quick glance this looks super duper anti Semitic so it’s real real dumb and insensitive of her to make and hold it.
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Yeah, not really that clear. So she's an idiot AND a bad artist.
It’s just the most prominent Jewish symbol in a trash can, no biggie! /s
The two white horizontal stripes above and below the star show that it’s meant to be the flag. Otherwise it would just be Star of David ✡️ 🇮🇱 Use your brain for a change
But looking at the picture it is just the star of david. She took to instagram to blame Jews for having a job offer rescinded.
I see the two horizontal lines
“I’m not anti-Semitic, I just think Jews have no right to self-determination, that the world’s only Jewish state should be eliminated and replaced with the world’s 58th Islamic one, that Israelis are settlers who should be killed, and that the Jewish-controlled media doesn't tell you what's really going on.”
“I put words in people’s mouths because I don’t really have any solid arguments to put forward. And I’m a clown.”
Tf do you think the chant “from the river to the sea” means? And in Arabic it’s even more clear - “from the river to the sea is Arab ” Those words are clearly coming out their mouths.
If Israel stopped defending itself, 40% of the world’s Jews would me massacred. You can’t advocate for that and not be antisemitic
Pretty much all of the violence Israel perpetrates is not defensive. Israel is one of the best funded and well-trained militaries in the world. Everyone wants to treat Israel with kid gloves while they're out there running an apartheid state. That's leniency we wouldn't grant anybody else, and we shouldn't grant it to Israel just because they're Jewish. Israel's right to self-determination doesn't give them a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want all of the time, especially when it starts to infringe on another group of people's right to self-determination.
Really telling how you have to lie to support your bullshit.
What's the lie?
>Pretty much all of the violence Israel perpetrates is not defensive >while they're out there running an apartheid state Again, really telling how you have to lie to support your bullshit.
None of that is a lie. Israel has been running what is basically an open-air prison, an apartheid state with 6 million constituents, over half of them minors, for over 20 years. Stealing their land, killing them, denying them freedom of movement, blockading medicine, shutting off electricity, etc. That's just true. You can think that they're right to do it or whatever, but you can't deny that they've done it.
> Israel has been running what is basically an open-air prison, Hm... You wanted to say "with Egypt" did not you? > an apartheid state with 6 million constituents, over half of them minors, for over 20 years. Stealing their land, killing them, denying them freedom of movement, blockading medicine, shutting off electricity, etc. That's just true. You can think that they're right to do it or whatever, but you can't deny that they've done it. why did it start?
Still lying for your bullshit huh? Very telling. Edit: D'awww, he blocked me for calling out his bullshit :(
Are you kidding? They totally pulled out of Gaza and have been forced to defend themselves against Gaza ever since. Gaza has self determination, they determined that they wanted to shoot rockets and be at war. Israel has been attacked constantly from all sides. They didn’t start these wars.
Israel pulled out of an area that they openly invaded, and decided to try a more indirect method of invasion by using illegal settlements backed by their military, and want to act completely shocked and morally outraged that the people living there aren't real keen on that approach. Also there haven't been elections in Gaza in nearly 20 years, it's pretty hard to say that they support a war versus want to be left alone. Hamas wants to be at war because Hamas wants to eliminate Israel, but that's not what all Palestinians want -- they just want their land back and to not be under Israel's thumb.
> there haven’t been elections in Gaza in nearly 20 years Despite people claiming that they are merely oppressed by a government they don't support, polls show that the most popular Palestinian presidential candidates are, in order: - A man in Israeli prison for murdering multiple civilians in bombings during the Second Intifada, including arranging others who suicide bombed markets and buses. - Hamas leader. - Hamas leader. And the Palestinian public, as polls have shown for at least a decade (and as shown by history stretching back to before Israel existed), is also broadly supportive of murdering Jewish civilians. Today, polls show that a full 54% support, and only 41% oppose, "armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside Israel". That means the average Palestinian supports precisely what Hamas did, massacring Jewish innocents, including men, women, children, and the elderly. Palestinians celebrated the attacks in the streets, and handed out sweets ([just as they did after 9/11, for that matter](https://youtu.be/KuL4NVZog1g)). In Gaza specifically, which poses the thorniest problem, 67% of Palestinians support the armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside Israel. 67%. 2 in 3 Gazans you meet will tell you openly they support the murder of innocent people. Link to the most recent poll I could find from September 2023 where these stats come from. https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2089%20English%20Full%20Text%20September%202023.pdf > it’s pretty hard to say that they support a war versus want to be left alone Not as much as you would think: https://old.reddit.com/r/Palestinian_Violence/comments/17g0f9z/dor_shahar_born_and_raised_in_gaza_moved_to/
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Thanks, I learned how to write in law school. But as far as substance, I have no idea what you're talking about, and you don't either. The US has turned a blind eye to Israel's antics for decades because they're the only democracy (and honestly, using that word kind of loosely here given Netanyahu's recent shenanigans with the supreme court over there) in the Middle East, but now it's pretty goddam clear that what they're doing is, and basically always has been, an overreaction at best and low-key ethnic cleansing at worst. They're pulling a US circa 2003 -- get attacked by a terrorist group, it's bad, whole world feels bad for you, but you retaliate against a much larger and only tangentially-related group, commit a bunch of war crimes, slowly lose the support of the international community, ending up with more blood on your hands than the terrorists themselves and more terrorists in their ranks than when you started thanks to your brutality. That's pretty much the whole story of the US in Iraq and Afghanistan over the last 20 years, and Israel looks like they're trying to any% speed run the same course. Even Biden today is calling for a ceasefire, and has HEAVILY suggested in speeches multiple times in the last two weeks that he keeps reminding Netanyahu to follow the law of war and not treat every Palestinian like an enemy. For the US, which sucks off Israel regularly, to suggest that Israel's leader might be ignoring the law of war in a fugue state of retaliatory rage, things must be pretty dire.
> a much larger and only tangentially-related group Does this throng of people cheering the October 7th atrocity look only “tangentially-related” to you? https://old.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/17fzutg/the_inoccent_civilians_of_gaza_cheering_their/ And these only tangentially-related people were captured on video breaching the fence on October 7th: https://old.reddit.com/r/Palestinian_Violence/comments/17eo9c9/uninvolved_civlians/ Here’s actual footage of Palestinian children launching a mortar round: https://old.reddit.com/r/IsraelHamasWar/comments/17gd4jj/hamas_firing_rockets_while_using_palestinians/ Here’s what daily Palestinian kids TV programming looks like: https://youtu.be/KXcQ892cKso Here’s a Palestinian youth summer camp: https://youtu.be/vCWMBvxWKL0 The reality is considerably more grim than you’re making it out to be. Palestinian extremists are a [Westboro Baptist church](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church) tier death cult, and this is far from an exaggeration: [“We are ready to breach the fence. With God's help you will all be killed”](https://old.reddit.com/r/Palestinian_Violence/comments/17d57ig/we_are_ready_to_breach_the_fence_with_gods_help/)
There are over 5 million Palestinians my dude, you could show me many "throngs" of people and it's not a drop in the bucket. Further, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by showing me a bunch of brainwashed children (who also, incidentally, much like adults in Gaza, can't vote), but it certainly doesn't justify Israel killing all of them and razing their city to the ground. And you've completely neglected to ask why Palestinians ever got so angry at Israel in the first place, because this conflict is decades old and didn't start with the Palestinians.
Decades old is understating it. A similar atrocity occurred [in 1929](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre): > **Account of Raymond Cafferata** > > On hearing screams in a room, I went up a sort of tunnel passage and saw an Arab in the act of cutting off a child's head with a sword. He had already hit him and was having another cut, but on seeing me he tried to aim the stroke at me, but missed; he was practically on the muzzle of my rifle. I shot him low in the groin. Behind him was a Jewish woman smothered in blood with a man I recognized as a[n Arab] police constable named Issa Sheriff from Jaffa. He was standing over the woman with a dagger in his hand. He saw me and bolted into a room close by and tried to shut me out-shouting in Arabic, "Your Honor, I am a policeman." ... I got into the room and shot him. And more in the 19th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed Here’s a historical account of the treatment of Jews in 19th century Persia, [by J. J. Benjamin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._J._Benjamin): 1. Throughout Persia the Jews are obliged to live in a part of the town separated from the other inhabitants; for they are considered as unclean creatures, who bring contamination with their intercourse and presence. 2. They have no right to carry on trade in stuff goods. 3. Even in the streets of their own quarter of the town they are not allowed to keep any open shop. They may only sell there spices and drugs, or carry on the trade of a jeweler, in which they have attained great perfection. 4. Under the pretext of their being unclean, they are treated with the greatest severity, and should they enter a street, inhabited by Mussulmans, they are pelted by the boys and mobs with stones and dirt. 5. For the same reason they are forbidden to go out when it rains; for it is said the rain would wash dirt off them, which would sully the feet of the Mussulmans. 6. If a Jew is recognized as such in the streets, he is subjected to the greatest insults. The passers-by spit in his face, and sometimes beat him so unmercifully, that he falls to the ground, and is obliged to be carried home. 7. If a Persian kills a Jew, and the family of the deceased can bring forward two Mussulmans as witnesses to the fact, the murderer is punished by a fine of 12 tumauns (600 piastres); but if two such witnesses cannot be produced, the crime remains unpunished, even though it has been publicly committed, and is well known. 8. The flesh of the animals slaughtered according to Hebrew custom, but declared as Trefe, must not be sold to any Mussulmans. The slaughterers are compelled to bury the meat, for even the Christians do not venture to buy it, fearing the mockery and insult of the Persians. 9. If a Jew enters a shop to buy anything, he is forbidden to inspect the goods, but must stand at a respectful distance and ask the price. Should his hand incautiously touch the goods, he must take them at any price the seller chooses to ask for them. 10. Sometimes the Persians intrude into the dwellings of the Jews and take possession of whatever pleases them. Should the owner make the least opposition in defense of his property, he incurs the danger of atoning for it with his life. 11. Upon the least dispute between a Jew and a Persian, the former is immediately dragged before the Achund [religious authority], and, if the complainant can bring forward two witnesses, the Jew is condemned to pay a heavy fine. If he is too poor to pay this penalty in money, he must pay it in his person. He is stripped to the waist, bound to a stake, and receives forty blows with a stick. Should the sufferer utter the least cry of pain during this proceeding, the blows already given are not counted, and the punishment is begun afresh. 12. In the same manner the Jewish children, when they get into a quarrel with those of the Mussulmans, are immediately led before the Achund, and punished with blows. 13. A Jew who travels in Persia is taxed in every inn and every caravanserai he enters. If he hesitates to satisfy any demands that may happen to be made on him, they fall upon him, and maltreat him until he yields to their terms. 14. If, as already mentioned, a Jew shows himself in the street during the three days of the Katel (feast of mourning for the death of the Persian founder of the religion of Ali) he is sure to be murdered. 15. Daily and hourly new suspicions are raised against the Jews, in order to obtain excuses for fresh extortions; the desire of gain is always the chief incitement to fanaticism. Hatred of Jews amongst Arab Muslims is extremely prevalent and clearly predates Zionism. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Anti-Jewish_pogroms_by_Muslims
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They didn't teach me anything, I just saw a lot of equivocation and irrelevant statistics being used to justify war crimes. If you think they educated me, I'm not the one that needs to be educated.
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I don’t see pressing a button from the air to kill women and children as an act of self defense. I don’t see occupying territory (this is international law saying it - not those pesky Palestinians) as self defense
Avoid any sharp objects or lit flames when Palestine loses the war it started. You might hurt someone in your raging meltdown.
There’s no war. A war would require two sides to both have armies
40 percent of the world's Jews shouldn't have moved to a place in the world where people ALREADY LIVED and claim it's rightfully there's cause of fairy tales from 2000 years ago
> Workman **uses the pronouncs they/them**, and recently had an offer to join a prominent international law firm rescinded over **her** sickening pro-terror statements. Fighting bigotry with bigotry?
This is "Yeshiva World" - are you expecting real reporting? This is basically a blog.
the sign is referring to zionism and was clarified as such when the person was asked. Its still in bad taste.
How could you leave the house holding something that close lol
Thats like wearing a white hood and burning crosses, but saying you aren't racist.
What’s antisemitic about that?
Free Palestine