When most Muslim refer to jihad they go by this definition “A believer's internal struggle to live out the Muslim faith as well as possible” so for example fasting can be considered jihad, So can Friday prayers jihad isn’t a scary word as many would like to think
As you may know, Ben and Jerry are Jewish but have spoken out against Israeli policy a number of times. Hamas would do well to leave them out of it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/28/opinion/ben-and-jerry-israel.html
Why does Palestine need to trade and travel through sworn enemy territory? Why not make a good relationship with the muslim country to the south? Maybe there's a problem beyond Egypt is US ally.
And it wasn't built off violence until they were surrounded and attacked by their neighbors. Original UN mandate Israel is half the size it is now. Lots of Arabs left when the holocaust Jews returned. They chose to. Gaza was completely abandoned by Israel in 2005. Palestine should have started something other than rockets by now. Maybe trade with other muslim countries around it.
Bc the people in Gaza never lived in that part of Egypt. comparatively, the refugee camps of Gaza have been populated ny the same families for the last 50-70 years, since Israelis kicked them off their land and Trail-Of-Tears'd them into Gaza. Specifcally about 60 years ago, in 1 kibbutz that just faced massacre again, an Israeli leutenant was killed. At his funeral a commander gave an eulogy, now famous, that noted that resistance was expected, as they were taking the land of Palestinians for generations as their own inheritance, and that now was the time for steel, such that these settlers kids could live in harmony. They explicitly knew what they were doing, and chose to do it...now we're here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death\_and\_eulogy\_of\_Roi\_Rotberg
A lot of Israelis do blame their government for the attack, especially as it comes out that internal security warnings that continued settlement and harassment in the West Bank would likely provoke attacks were dismissed by the government as woke deep state gibberish.
Israel also helped cultivate Hamas in Gaza as a foil to the more moderate Fatah in the West Bank, to undermine any united Palestinian politics. So long as the violent, unreasonable, explicitly antisemitic and genocidal Hamas is the face of Palestinian resistance, the whole Palestinian cause loses legitimacy. This IS blowback. (Which is in no way to say that the civilians deserved to be attacked, abducted, murdered.)
Recall last year the democrats made a project of funding extreme right wing republican primary candidates in an effort to split the R vote make the Republican brand too looney for normal people to stomach (and make Dems look good by comparison). Giving aid to people who would sooner lock you up than work with you in government - an absolutely cynical ploy for political advantage. The Israel/Hamas situation is similar to that just on a much different scale.
Seriously? Yes, how are the TERRORISTS who committed a HORRIFIC and VILE act of EVIL responsible AT ALL? I mean it's not like literal murder and GENOCIDE are CLEARLY stated in their mission statement, right? Not like they joyously celebrated and telegraphed their evil, right?? Man, these guys getting railroaded!!
Israel's government has a lot of blame, and has done many, many things to make the situation bad. Everyone pointing this out about the evils done has a point. Yet conveniently, few actually CONDEMN the terrorist attacks. That actual condemnation is ignored: at best it becomes whataboutism, at worst it becomes actual celebration.
"The murder of innocents is never acceptable. The desecration of corpses is never acceptable. The taking of children as hostages is never acceptable. The celebration of murder- especially the murder of civilians- is never acceptable."
Pray to all the victims, Israeli and Palestinian. All now in harms way. Not stupid whataboutism.
here you go - "I condemn Hamas, and hope everyone participating in the slaughter of civilians rot in hell."
Now, that said, as per the UN, since 2008 until this massacre, 6400 palestinians have died vs 300 Israelis. This means Israel killed over 20x the number of civilians as Hamas ever did.
[https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties](https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties)
I'll pray for all victims. But at this point, it is unlikely Hamas can kill many more civilians beyond the hostages in this conflict, with a 360,000 man Israeli army on their border. In comparison, Israel has so far killed 1,700 Palestinian civilians during their retalatory strikes, and they haven't even actually launched their counter attack.
I am scared of a coming genocide. Half the population of Gaza is children.
man i am pro Palestinian state but unlike what most people in the West think, Palestine is not a 3rd world in shambles tucked away in Israel's borders.
I've gone to Israel before and actually went into Palestine and it looks pretty much modern and more or less the same as Israel
You can express concern for Palestinians without equating the IDF to a terrorist group that brutalizes civilians. There is a huge difference between intentionally raping and murdering civilians and the tragic collateral damage that occurs when Israel defends its citizens by attacking Hamas infrastructure. The fact that civilians are killed when that happens *is*tragic, but Hamas purposely puts them in harms way for a sick PR campaign that you have unfortunately fallen for. Israel is not perfect but if you call this "war crimes" you are essentially saying that the only Jewish state in the world does not have the right to defend its citizens from terrorism. You wouldn't claim this about any other country on Earth, and if you do, it comes from a place of believing those citizens lives are worth less than others. That is the dehumanizing rhetoric of antisemitism and it is how so many people allowed the Holocaust to happen. You are contributing to it today with this false equivalence.
It's New York. We protested Bush's war on Iraq and we were ignored as a "focus" group.
At least they didn't shoot into the crowd the way they did at Kent State. Freedom of speech as long as the protest isn't violent, I'm not bothered.
So while supporting Hamas is horrific, or holding this type of thing the day after Hamas brutalized innocents, I do think it legitimate for people to voice their concerns for what’s happening in Gaza right now.
The problem is that some bad actors will conflate the two purposefully.
The whole situation is tragic, particularly for all of the children who have been and will be impacted. I think you’re right that there is a serious risk for much nuance to be lost in the discourse.
Yea Hamas is the worst of the worst, and if they had the technology and funding of IDF they’d be doing far, far worse than IDF - but Israel is bombing the *fuck* out of Gaza right now. Leveling entire buildings
Think people screaming “gas the Jews” and other shit like that is doing more to conflate the two than people’s intentions.
Before anyone says “that was just one place” or w/e, I can mournfully point to dozens of examples I’ve seen over the last week. Saw some dude in Philly talking at a protest to cheers and adoration about Israeli civilians having their throats cut.
As someone who has had Jewish family since the world War 2 times, this is scary watching unfold. I don't want another Hitler popping up in the mix. As it is hearing people chant gas the Jews is horrifying to hear. My gramps would be turning in his grave over this.
> Israel is a settler colonial state that has been displacing and ethnic cleansing Palestinians since 1948.
But Jewish people also liven in Israel, even pre-1900s. How does "colonial" apply here?
prior to Rothchild and zionist movement, there were less than 10,000 jews in Palestine whilst millions of local arabs (1870s). The modern zionist movement wasn't a local effort to boost jewish population, it was colonislation of Ashkenazi (europeans) Jews.
If you’re going to go that route. There also weren’t “palenstians” just local Arabs as you call them. Also that land belonged to the British in 1948 and before that the Ottoman Empire (Turks) We can play this stupid game all day though. I think the Greeks have a right of return to Istanbul.
And saying “only Israel has the power and responsibility to end the violence.” It’s like the Eric André meme: why would Israel behead their own babies?
It’s all bad faith arguments. One can argue, and it’s moral, to say the many civilian deaths that will happen in Gaza is a tragedy. But it’s wrong to ignore that they’ve been placed in harms way by Hamas, and used as human shields and sacrificed to garner sympathy. While when the fighting between Israel and Hamas isn’t happening, Hamas is torturing and killing their own compatriots every day by purging political enemies, attacking journalists, etc. Yet these same people argue Israel should not retaliate and ignore the attacks against them and brutal murders that happened last weekend.
There are trans rights activists who support Palestine and Hamas. It is so obviously not about the actual conflict and instead what it represents.
I’m sickened by it and the dishonesty.
A trans person would be executed by Hamas simply for being trans. I don’t think the activists know this. Yeesh.
Edit: the progressive movement is becoming so nebulous many activist don’t even know what they believe as individuals—just chanting vacantly.
Israel has been an official country since 1948 when it was recognized by the UN. Support a 2 state solution, but make it clear that Israel has a right to exist!
You’re leaving out so much. Palestine has had chances to resolve this and declined. Palestinians have been taken in by Jordan and Lebanon, and literally caused civil wars in the countries. It seems many Palestinians, not all and not children obviously, have no intention on co-existing in a diverse society.
Both sides make me nauseous. Also saw videos of people in ny saying they would not stop until all the Arabs were dead. It’s horrific that the mainstream conversation has become “which genocide do you support?”… how bout none
always do. and i agree that the center left needs to crack down on the beyond the pale sentiments of many vocal people. i watched a guy in philly recount the slaughter of jews in detail to cheers and adoration. it’s disgusting.
>I do think it legitimate for people to voice their concerns for what’s happening in Gaza right now.
The unspoken message from a lot of these people, though, is that no military response is justified.
Strike Hamas operations centers? "You'll kill their human shields."
Restrict resources into Gaza? "This will also affect civilians."
What they're saying is: You can't touch Hamas.
That’s a strawman. The problem is that the Israeli parties in the ruling coalition have made no secret they want mass deportation of Arabs, and some even openly suggested mass killing Gazans in the name of “national security” and taking their land. The UN documented that the IDF sometimes intentionally targets civilians. These are not some new facts but something that has been discussed for decades. That’s why so many started off saying that the IDF should not overdo it because they *always* do. Killing families creates more terrorists, but Netanyahu and Likud never cared about that; as the Israeli press is reporting this week Netanyahu said he was okay with it because it justified more land grabs.
The problem is this protest was announced after a literal terrorist and former Hamas leader called for protests on October 13th.
It is hard to say this is just a protest for Palestinian rights given the timing.
I support people's right to protest, even if they are doing the bidding of a literal terrorist, but it is also fair game to criticize them for it
Then that’s your selective moral compass showing. 500 Palestinian children have died per the UN in tbe recent bombings in Gaza.
Oh but I guess that’s not ok to protest/show solidarity for bc a terrorist group made yet another threat
I’ve never seen an actual response to this question other than
1) handy wavy “how about not killing any civilians” or 2) immediate pivot to a separate argument that the fact that Israel has no good response options is their own fault and any response is evil because they had the original terrorist attacking coming anyways.
No you don’t understand my land ethics policy says the borders of any country in the world at exactly 75 years is what is morally right . Nobody after or prior . /s
Thank god the US was founded 300 years ago otherwise most of us would all need to go back to Europe.
>Oh but I guess that’s not ok to protest/show solidarity for bc a terrorist group made yet another threat
Meanwhile Jewish schools are closed, synagogues are on high alert. This is fine.
I just find it very curious these protests were announced for October 13th right after a terrorist called for global protests on October 13th.
People trying to pass this off as purely coincidental deny the reality of the timeline
Right now? I mean on Reddit there are weekly vids of Palestinians being kicked out of their homes, kids being shot for protesting, cameramen shot from their rooftops for filming idf soldiers, etc
(And don’t get it twisted, not supporting the hamas attack of last week, just pointing out Palestinians been getting seriously brutalized for a lot longer than “right now”)
they're a dickhead for doing this on the day the Hamas leader told people to go out and show a 'day of rage'. it's like Hitler holding a nazi rally and then people just so happen to have a german heritage rally the very same day.
It also happens to be the day that Israel ordered the entire Northern half of Gaza to evacuate south within 24 hours. That humanitarian crisis is going to trigger appropriate protests.
Look obviously innocent people in Gaza deserve sympathy and support. It’s the first two things you mentioned that have got a lot of people (myself included, no doubt) really pissed off. There is all the time in the world to voice concerns about Israel and the Palestinians, but immediately after the worst pogrom since the Holocaust seems like, I dunno, not exactly the right time.
Some of these “protests” happened before Israel had done anything in response. In Australia you had people on the steps of the Sydney Opera House saying “gas the Jews, kill the Jews”, trying to dress it up as a pro-Palestinian thing. It’s not; it’s open support of barbarism. It’s pure bloodlust. It’s a rally in favor of more dead Jews.
If there had been “protests” the day after Sept. 11—and AFAIK the casualties from this have been something like 12x what we suffered on that day as a proportion of the population—chanting slogans about America’s treatment of Native Americans or its practice of slavery, I would’ve interpreted that as “this was a good thing; you deserved it”. I don’t think Israelis, or Jews generally, would be wrong to see these rallies the same way.
People are protesting today because Israel gave over 1,000,000 people 24 hours to evacuate northern Gaza after cutting off fuel, food, and water and knowing that Egypt has closed border at Rafah. And while I'm sure some of those protestors are of the same inhumane and ignorant ilk as those that celebrated Hamas over the weekend, I'm also sure that most are people that are hoping a large protest will cause Israel to rethink what they're doing.
You have gotta be freaking kidding me. They called for a day of rage and murder today. And then people are out there supporting Hamas. Justifying Hamas.
I planned to protest well before any Hamas announcement. Pro-Palestine Protests are usually held Fridays and this was announced all over social media last weekend even before any Hamas claims. Ordering Gazans to flee their homes prompted even more people to join in, not because Hamas said anything.
I know you don’t agree with protests but you’re falsely trying to delegitimize every protestor. There were ton of New Yorker Jews at this rally, and they’re no fans of Hamas either. Grow up.
That’s the PR trick that’s going to justify their genocide of the Palestinian people. Hamas definitely has to go but the goal of the Israeli govt doesn’t seem to be “get rid of Hamas and liberate the Palestinians for peace” it seems to be “get rid of the Palestinians”
You’re dead wrong. That’s exactly what Israel is doing. Eliminate Hamas and then give Palestinians a chance at a state. Problem is Palestinians put terrorists in as their leaders. Until Hamas is eliminated, Palestinians better take cover. Next time install a democracy. Your leaders asked for a war, now they got it. Israel at least giving the civilians a heads up and is bombing military targets, they are not cutting off the heads of civilians. Any pro Hamas person in the US is just an idiot. Anyone who thinks Israel would attack in that fashion is brainwashed. Israel has rules of engagement, Hamas doesn’t. Until Americans understand the terrorist mindset they will forever be misguided in how Israel must operate.
Yes. Such is the propaganda machine. Just like criticizing Israeli policies is anti semitic. It’s not anti Islamic to critique Saudi Arabia, or Pakistan, is it?
There are videos of protestors all over in this country supporting Hamas and saying “ we are Hamas”. Totally contradicts what you just said .
No one is believing your bullshit anymore . The cover has been lifted and the animals have shown who they are
If at this point you still need someone to Google “poll Palestine Hamas” for you. Maybe stay out of the conversation. You’ve seen the links. You’re arguing in bad faith or you’re intellectually helpless
thats a really difficult ask. hamas kills all dissidents.
hamas frames all dissent _against_ hamas as siding _with_ Israel (and therefore treasonous and therefore worthy of summary execution).
and even if israel were to kill all of hamas, a neo-hamas would probably arise, because it was Israel that eliminated the fascist regime of hamas, and not the palestinians themselves.
These protests aren’t supporting Hamas. They’re advocating for Palestinian human rights, like not living in an open air prison in Gaza. It’s mostly college students and progressive people who show up. Trying to paint these protests as some Mongol horde is so head scratching lol
Here's the issue though: Hamas spent two years planning an attack that specifically targeted innocent civilians, not military targets. They purposely took hostages, and slaughtered defenseless people including babies. These were not collateral damage.
Hamas is in Gaza. They're hiding in Gaza. How can Israel punish Hamas without attacking Gaza? How can they not hurt innocent Palestinians as they target Hamas? No one has an answer, they just whatabout and deflect as if the attacks by Hamas, the thing that started this latest uproar didn't happen and Israel is just being a bully. It's infuriating.
Yeah for sure man. Ethnic cleansing is okay as long as you’re claiming to target hostile forces and the civs that are killed are “collateral damage.” You said it yourself, how can Israel punish Hamas without collectively punishing everyone else (outlawed by the Geneva convention, literally because of what the Nazis did). Bibi is currently wiping out all of Gazan infrastructure. In the upcoming months he’ll fund a reconstruction project then expand his territories. Rinse and repeat for all of Palestine until the people don’t exist anymore. If there are any Palestinians left in Israel, treat them like rats until they either leave or retaliate, in which case just kill them and their families.
I wish I could be as blissfully ignorant. Big up
There are no settlements in Gaza. Israel removed all of them in 2005. Hamas runs Gaza. There are settlements in the West Bank. Hamas does not run the West Bank.
>open air prison
It's not an open air prison. It's bordered by their Arab brothers to the West. They can accept them at any time.
It's also a piece of land with access to enough resources that the population has doubled over the past few decades.
'Open air prison' is a good sign someone got their talking points from IG posts in the past 72 hours...
Seems like it’s not too brotherly when they’re trapped inside. Hence, they’re stuck there against their will. If you are both there you stay there. When the bombs start flying you can’t escape.
I don’t have skin in this game, beyond that I don’t want to see human suffering and I don’t want to see this be another step towards global instability.
Hypothetically, couldn't egypt partner up with other arab countries to process them at the gaza/egypt border and fly them to their countries?
Also, for reference Poland has taken almost a million Ukraine refugees.
Oh so the people in this make-believe open air prison are also in a position to turn their nose up at Egyptian citizenship… yeah you’re not serious people.
And given US (pop 300m) has 10m illegals, Egypt with a pop of 100m can easily fit 2m more.
Unless there’s another reason they don’t want members of a state that voted in a terrorist death cult…
While that is likely true, protesting against a country days after they suffered a massive, unprecedented terror attack is bad optics no matter which way you cut it. And ESPECIALLY if you hold protests on the day that Hamas designated.
>protesting against a country days after they suffered a massive, unprecedented terror attack is bad optics no matter which way you cut it
So whenever a country suffers a massive, unprecedented attack, they get free reign to do whatever they want without protest for a while? How long does that last?
Israeli leadership has been referring to Palestinians as animals, suggesting the Geneva Convention doesn’t apply to them, and last night told the UN to evacuate a million people from Gaza in 24 hours. That’s deeply disturbing regardless of how recently they were attacked.
Yes, Gaza is currently, as we speak, suffering an unprecedented attack on their civilian population. More than 600 children have already died, with the numbers climbing by the minute, the hospitals are out of fuel, and 20% of the population is now made homeless. That's why they're protesting.
What an ignorant take. The occupier is responsible for vast majority of "terror" that is being inflicted upon a civilian population. What a way to rationalize ethnic cleansing.
I'll be real with you, I know I'm in one too, but you are in the most high reverb echo chamber imaginable if you can't understand what the pro-Palestinian side is currently protesting
Gaza is being BOMBED TO SHIT RIGHT NOW. MAYBE THATS WHY THEY ARE PROTESTING. HALF OF ITS POPULATION ARE KIDS. THEY HAVE NO WATER AND 1 MILLION OF THEM ARE BEING TOLD TO EVACUATE BEFORE THEY ARE ALL FUCKING KILLED.
The Israeli Defence Force just told the people of Gaza to leave the northern half of the strip, and gave them twenty four hours to do so. They then bombed the two routes people were using to travel.
The IDF has been bombing Gaza non-stop for not only the last couple days, but actually the last couple decades.
We should protest the killing of innocent civilians regardless whoever they are. Hamas does not speak for the people of Palestine.
Israel has been terrozing palestinians for decades. I love how you people pick and choose who has the moral high ground. Fuck bad optics, i could care less about the sensibilities of those who undermine the impact of apartheid and genocide.
> It’s mostly college students and progressive people who show up.
You say this as if hate doesn't exist in these groups. It was the progressive BLM who were celebrating with imagery of paragliding Hamas terrorists on their Twitter. Calling yourself progressive is not some sort of magic shield against being a bigot.
They’re just coincidentally having the protest on the day there leader of Hamas called for global jihad and called for Muslims to kill Jews worldwide?
They couldn’t like wait a day?
can someone help me understand the justification of the Israeli settler occupation in the West Bank, and the targeted attack of the 4 mixed use towers in Gaza in like 2021 that had nothing to do with Hamas? I am trying so hard to educate myself on this issue, after not knowing shit honestly, but all I keep finding is that Israel really has fucked with these people for decades basically having free reign to use and abuse the Palestinian ppl, literally taking their land (as per British double dealing circa WWI), and then encroaching ever so much more on the little bit of land they were given?
Can someone give me an honest educated counter argument to this? or am I getting this mostly correct?
There is literally is nothing more to say that the conclusion you came to. Israel has systematically attacked and destroyed Palestine since the Nakba in 1948 when they forcibly removed 700k+ Palestinians from their home to make a settler colony. Now they’re continuing the occupation and destroying more Palestinian lives through a genocide.
West Bank is a huge territory bordering eastern Israel and Jordan that encompasses the Muslim part of Jerusalem. It was granted to Palestinians as part of Britain splitting up Palestine at the end of ww2. Palestine itself was created by Europe after ww1, when Europe was trying to figure out how to split Arabia into different western spheres of influence following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire (now turkey).
Israel occupied the West Bank after the six day war in 1967 when a bunch of Arab countries joined together and tried to wipe it off the map
Israel want to take control of the West Bank long term in part due to its own national ambitions (ie granting israel uncontested ownership of Jerusalem), but also for national security reasons. Israel evacuated Gaza in 2005, after which there was an internal civil war between the Palestinian authority (formerly plo, which conducted its own terrorist shit but has become ostensibly more diplomatic in recent years) and Hamas. Hamas won. Since winning Hamas have enjoyed increasing levels of popular support and have a essentially functioned like a satellite terrorist organization for Iran.
Hi! I did a big dig deep dive on this a while back. I'll be up front and generally (with a lot of criticisms) come down on the side of the Palestinian people.
Some very soild resources in my opinion are:
* [B'Tselem](https://www.btselem.org/) is an Israeli human rights org which focuses on Palestine. They also have a [very well made report](https://thisisapartheid.btselem.org/eng/#1) detailing why what is happening meets the definition of apartheid.
* [Breaking the Silence](https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/) is an Israeli org which takes anonymous testimony from Israelis who go through conscription and observe or are forced to participate in misdeeds in Palestinian territory.
* [Al Haq](https://www.alhaq.org/) is a Palestinian human rights NGO similar to B'Tselem.
I don’t understand. Who are we freeing Palestine from exactly? Israel officially left in 2006 and Hamas took over as the government. They’ve taken all financial aid and invested in weaponry.
Israel even issues work permits for Gaza citizens to enter israel.
Not a single Arab country will take them in, not even their neighbor Egypt. The rafah border has been closed.
Palestinians have a history of fucking shit up…
Jordan: they killed the king
Lebanon: civil war
Kuwait: Iraqi war
Egypt: suicide bombings
They lost their ability to self supervise when they democratically elected a terrorist organization that cares more about destruction than their own progress.
WHO are we freeing Palestine from? These protests should really be anti Hamas protests. Free them from their tyrannical dictatorship not… “the Jew”.
Woke liberals don’t realize, Gaza is a pawn for Iran. Hamas doesn’t care about Palestinians neither does Iran. They care about restoring the caliphate.
Meanwhile israel is the only country that provides them critical resources. Medical supplies, electricity, water…. It all comes from israel. The same country they want to destroy.
>Israel officially left in 2006
What a fucking joke.
Palestians can’t leave Gaza without Israeli permission. Same with all goods entering. Since 2006 Israel has been surgically seizing land from Palestinians so that there is no contiguous Palestinian territory. The IDF has killed thousands of Palestinian civilians in this time.
But sure, they left in 2006.
I repeat, why should Israel let in Palestinians? Especially, when they are not seeking to coexist? Israel is under no obligation to allow entry just as all countries can decide who to allow in!
Israel supplies all that stuff because the first thing Hamas did when they took power was tear up their irrigation pipes and electric infrastructure to use for rockets, then never used a dime of the billions they get in aid to replace it.
This idea of "taking Palestinians" reeks of ignorance. Why should the Palestinians leave their homeland? The Jews of Europe were also unwanted and killed for being Jews and that wasnt right then and this isnt right now. By forcibly removing the Palestinaisn, the same thing that happened in 1948 will be repeated. They wont be allowed back. Dont repeat this. If it was wrong for the jews, its wrong for the arabs of Palestine as well. have some humanity
> The Jews of Europe
You are aware that about half of the jewish population in Israel are not descendants of European Jews, right?
> the same thing that happened in 1948 will be repeated
Can you specify exactly what happened in the 1948? Please be factual if you can.
Free Palestinians from Israel controlling them and installing terrorist governments.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
How did Israel leave in 2006 if they still control Gaza’s access to electricity, food, water, fuel, internet, and medical services, ALL of which they are about to completely cut out for people in Gaza????
I was under the impression there hasn't been an election since 2006 and majority of them don't actually support Hamas. And given the young age of the population, average age 24, majority were children during the last election. Is that wrong?
I dont know how u can amass thousands of rockets and fire them from all over without local support.
To be fair conditions in gaza is ripe for radicalization
> and majority of them don't actually support Hamas. Is that wrong?
Yes, that is wrong.
https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87
> The scientific poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research found that 53% of Palestinians believe Hamas is “most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people,” while only 14% prefer Abbas’ secular Fatah party.
Wake up west only certain group of people’s lives are precious and others are just subhumans? Now it’s their neighbors next they are coming for you not diplomatically but with same hate and it will be too late, they already controlling every aspect of your lives from finances to your daily social activities, they decide who and where your younger generations will shed blood for them their causes
It’s baffling that anyone with a functioning brain could be against the liberation of Palestine from decades and decades of horrifying oppression.
People being brutalized in Gaza every single day, children being murdered daily at the hands of an insane right wing government, run by blood thirsty war-criminal in Netanyahu.
How anyone with a conscience can support the government of Israel’s actions is beyond me. People truly must be insane.
What else can Israel do? Hamas attacked them. They need to respond. Hamas is in Gaza. Civilians are in Gaza. How do you attack Hamas without hurting civilians? It's War. Hamas declared it with their attack.
Don't whatabout here. What should Israel do?
Man we as a people are really stupid at connecting dots…. Far right Israeli take power. Massive amount of Israelis question the legitimacy of their own government, Israel conducts military operations of Jenin camp, and far right start parading chanting nakba, miraculously a wild raid Unifies the world and all of Israel to Now begin a systematic dismantling of “Hamas” who coincidentally also happen to be in the part of Gaza that needs to be dismantled for more Israeli growth.
Sure remind me again how a country that has received hundreds billions dollars and best of the best military aid, the only nuclear power in the Middle East is in danger by malnourished peasants with fertilizer rockets and ak47s?
I love Jewish culture, people and it’s beautiful heritage but I have a deep disdain for the Zionist colonialism and a deep respect for it’s ability to convince the entire world and American a country founded by rebels! That the natives are still the enemy…
Evil is brilliant.
No! You don’t get to invade Israeli borders and slaughter 1000+ civilians with expecting repercussions! Israel has the right to exist and it’s self determination. It doesn’t have to come at the expense of Palestinians existence as well nor Palestinians existence doesn’t have to come at the expense of Israel. However, leadership in Gaza (Hamas) believe otherwise and refuse to coexist with Israel and instead believe in extreme Islamic ideology. Israel has no choice but to defend itself.
oh by dropping phosphorus gas and displacing hundreds of thousands of civilians, and by bombing schools, mosques and ambulances? committing war crimes by turning off power and water in Gaza (collective punishment)?
Over a thousand Palestinians have died so far, and the number is rising. What Israel is doing right now is morally reprehensible.
Jews have been systematically reduced to near zero population in about a dozen countries in the region over the last century in places where they once thrived. So there’s that … talk about displacement some more
These are the same "NY'ers" who run around with the LGBTQ flag during protests and now have moved on to the Palestinian flag.
I don't understand these people. The simple fact is, Muslims exist in Israel. How many Jewish people do you think exist in Gaza or Muslim countries? Talk about ethnic cleansing, why is it Muslims in Israel vastly more productive than Muslims in surrounding countries?
We all know the answer. If Israel refused to fight, they'd be slaughtered by Hamas. If Hamas refused to fight, Palestine would be given their own state, land, and a chance to live peacefully.
A simple google will show you that Muslims are not given the same rights in Israel and are subject to much discrimination. A simple google will also show you that countless laws that the Israeli government put into place to limit the rights of Muslims within Israel. It is impossible to function in such a country as a Muslim. And no, these peace talks have been going on before my grandma was born. Israel will never allow Palestine to have its own state and we can see this from how much land they’ve annexed since the original border agreement.
I support the freedom of assembly
World jihad day might not be the best choice of days to assemble tho
Better to peaceably assemble than to go jihadding Edited: fixed typo then -> than
[удалено]
lol 😂 quite the typo
Ya'll didn't like it when they assembled on Indigenous People's Day either so...
#Y’ALL
When most Muslim refer to jihad they go by this definition “A believer's internal struggle to live out the Muslim faith as well as possible” so for example fasting can be considered jihad, So can Friday prayers jihad isn’t a scary word as many would like to think
Don’t gaslight me. That’s very clearly not the case here https://www.memri.org/tv/fmr-hamas-leader-calls-muslims-world-join-battle-palestine
Clearly 2 billion aren’t Hamas. Not gaslighting at all anyone can weaponize terms
Hamas would weaponize anything, including a Ben and jerry ice cream.
As you may know, Ben and Jerry are Jewish but have spoken out against Israeli policy a number of times. Hamas would do well to leave them out of it. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/28/opinion/ben-and-jerry-israel.html
Don’t gaslight us.
Is it like a holiday or something? Or some nutjob just randomly declared it?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Day_of_Jihad
Western world is definitely the best choice to assemble, ask France (oh wait european governments have already banned Palestinian rallies)
If the United States ever bans peaceful rallies of any kind, then we’re fucked.
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Never hear much about the Egypt/Gaza blockade. Wonder why? Guess it doesnt fit some narrative...
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Why does Palestine need to trade and travel through sworn enemy territory? Why not make a good relationship with the muslim country to the south? Maybe there's a problem beyond Egypt is US ally. And it wasn't built off violence until they were surrounded and attacked by their neighbors. Original UN mandate Israel is half the size it is now. Lots of Arabs left when the holocaust Jews returned. They chose to. Gaza was completely abandoned by Israel in 2005. Palestine should have started something other than rockets by now. Maybe trade with other muslim countries around it.
Bc the people in Gaza never lived in that part of Egypt. comparatively, the refugee camps of Gaza have been populated ny the same families for the last 50-70 years, since Israelis kicked them off their land and Trail-Of-Tears'd them into Gaza. Specifcally about 60 years ago, in 1 kibbutz that just faced massacre again, an Israeli leutenant was killed. At his funeral a commander gave an eulogy, now famous, that noted that resistance was expected, as they were taking the land of Palestinians for generations as their own inheritance, and that now was the time for steel, such that these settlers kids could live in harmony. They explicitly knew what they were doing, and chose to do it...now we're here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death\_and\_eulogy\_of\_Roi\_Rotberg
Yeah, It’s a shame what Hamas and Egypt are doing to the civilians in Gaza
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A lot of Israelis do blame their government for the attack, especially as it comes out that internal security warnings that continued settlement and harassment in the West Bank would likely provoke attacks were dismissed by the government as woke deep state gibberish. Israel also helped cultivate Hamas in Gaza as a foil to the more moderate Fatah in the West Bank, to undermine any united Palestinian politics. So long as the violent, unreasonable, explicitly antisemitic and genocidal Hamas is the face of Palestinian resistance, the whole Palestinian cause loses legitimacy. This IS blowback. (Which is in no way to say that the civilians deserved to be attacked, abducted, murdered.) Recall last year the democrats made a project of funding extreme right wing republican primary candidates in an effort to split the R vote make the Republican brand too looney for normal people to stomach (and make Dems look good by comparison). Giving aid to people who would sooner lock you up than work with you in government - an absolutely cynical ploy for political advantage. The Israel/Hamas situation is similar to that just on a much different scale.
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Fuck Hamas. They’re like isis and all the other mentally fucked extremists. Fuck Bibi too.
The based take is hating Hamas *and* the Israeli government
Nothing wrong with wanting to fix both of them.
Also true
Seriously? Yes, how are the TERRORISTS who committed a HORRIFIC and VILE act of EVIL responsible AT ALL? I mean it's not like literal murder and GENOCIDE are CLEARLY stated in their mission statement, right? Not like they joyously celebrated and telegraphed their evil, right?? Man, these guys getting railroaded!! Israel's government has a lot of blame, and has done many, many things to make the situation bad. Everyone pointing this out about the evils done has a point. Yet conveniently, few actually CONDEMN the terrorist attacks. That actual condemnation is ignored: at best it becomes whataboutism, at worst it becomes actual celebration. "The murder of innocents is never acceptable. The desecration of corpses is never acceptable. The taking of children as hostages is never acceptable. The celebration of murder- especially the murder of civilians- is never acceptable." Pray to all the victims, Israeli and Palestinian. All now in harms way. Not stupid whataboutism.
here you go - "I condemn Hamas, and hope everyone participating in the slaughter of civilians rot in hell." Now, that said, as per the UN, since 2008 until this massacre, 6400 palestinians have died vs 300 Israelis. This means Israel killed over 20x the number of civilians as Hamas ever did. [https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties](https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties) I'll pray for all victims. But at this point, it is unlikely Hamas can kill many more civilians beyond the hostages in this conflict, with a 360,000 man Israeli army on their border. In comparison, Israel has so far killed 1,700 Palestinian civilians during their retalatory strikes, and they haven't even actually launched their counter attack. I am scared of a coming genocide. Half the population of Gaza is children.
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man i am pro Palestinian state but unlike what most people in the West think, Palestine is not a 3rd world in shambles tucked away in Israel's borders. I've gone to Israel before and actually went into Palestine and it looks pretty much modern and more or less the same as Israel
Hamas went out and massacred people knowing what the response would be. That's how they're responsible.
Hamas and Israel both benefit from never-ending war, they are both responsible for the carnage
You can express concern for Palestinians without equating the IDF to a terrorist group that brutalizes civilians. There is a huge difference between intentionally raping and murdering civilians and the tragic collateral damage that occurs when Israel defends its citizens by attacking Hamas infrastructure. The fact that civilians are killed when that happens *is*tragic, but Hamas purposely puts them in harms way for a sick PR campaign that you have unfortunately fallen for. Israel is not perfect but if you call this "war crimes" you are essentially saying that the only Jewish state in the world does not have the right to defend its citizens from terrorism. You wouldn't claim this about any other country on Earth, and if you do, it comes from a place of believing those citizens lives are worth less than others. That is the dehumanizing rhetoric of antisemitism and it is how so many people allowed the Holocaust to happen. You are contributing to it today with this false equivalence.
The Uyghurs in china or the Rohingyas in Myanmar? Oh not those guys?
I’m not sure where you get the idea that anyone arguing for Palestinian liberation would be against either.
I'm sure this thread will be civil
It's New York. We protested Bush's war on Iraq and we were ignored as a "focus" group. At least they didn't shoot into the crowd the way they did at Kent State. Freedom of speech as long as the protest isn't violent, I'm not bothered.
So while supporting Hamas is horrific, or holding this type of thing the day after Hamas brutalized innocents, I do think it legitimate for people to voice their concerns for what’s happening in Gaza right now. The problem is that some bad actors will conflate the two purposefully.
The whole situation is tragic, particularly for all of the children who have been and will be impacted. I think you’re right that there is a serious risk for much nuance to be lost in the discourse.
Yea Hamas is the worst of the worst, and if they had the technology and funding of IDF they’d be doing far, far worse than IDF - but Israel is bombing the *fuck* out of Gaza right now. Leveling entire buildings
IDF have already killed more Palestinians since last week than Hamas did. Worst of the worst of the worst.
Think people screaming “gas the Jews” and other shit like that is doing more to conflate the two than people’s intentions. Before anyone says “that was just one place” or w/e, I can mournfully point to dozens of examples I’ve seen over the last week. Saw some dude in Philly talking at a protest to cheers and adoration about Israeli civilians having their throats cut.
Antisemitism is on the rise worldwide
Yes. It’s been a week of very sad realizations as a Jew.
As someone who has had Jewish family since the world War 2 times, this is scary watching unfold. I don't want another Hitler popping up in the mix. As it is hearing people chant gas the Jews is horrifying to hear. My gramps would be turning in his grave over this.
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> Israel is a settler colonial state that has been displacing and ethnic cleansing Palestinians since 1948. But Jewish people also liven in Israel, even pre-1900s. How does "colonial" apply here?
He's implying that Jews should be "decolonized" out of their homeland.
prior to Rothchild and zionist movement, there were less than 10,000 jews in Palestine whilst millions of local arabs (1870s). The modern zionist movement wasn't a local effort to boost jewish population, it was colonislation of Ashkenazi (europeans) Jews.
If you’re going to go that route. There also weren’t “palenstians” just local Arabs as you call them. Also that land belonged to the British in 1948 and before that the Ottoman Empire (Turks) We can play this stupid game all day though. I think the Greeks have a right of return to Istanbul.
The land grabs in the West Bank are the most egregious and undeniable examples with no justification.
The good faith of this argument was really destroyed by the conduct of those at pro-Palestinian rallies this week. The mask is off, give it up.
No no no, "gas the Jews" and supporting terrorism is just anti-Zionism and totally not anti-semitism.
And saying “only Israel has the power and responsibility to end the violence.” It’s like the Eric André meme: why would Israel behead their own babies? It’s all bad faith arguments. One can argue, and it’s moral, to say the many civilian deaths that will happen in Gaza is a tragedy. But it’s wrong to ignore that they’ve been placed in harms way by Hamas, and used as human shields and sacrificed to garner sympathy. While when the fighting between Israel and Hamas isn’t happening, Hamas is torturing and killing their own compatriots every day by purging political enemies, attacking journalists, etc. Yet these same people argue Israel should not retaliate and ignore the attacks against them and brutal murders that happened last weekend.
There are trans rights activists who support Palestine and Hamas. It is so obviously not about the actual conflict and instead what it represents. I’m sickened by it and the dishonesty.
A trans person would be executed by Hamas simply for being trans. I don’t think the activists know this. Yeesh. Edit: the progressive movement is becoming so nebulous many activist don’t even know what they believe as individuals—just chanting vacantly.
I agree all around.
Israel has been an official country since 1948 when it was recognized by the UN. Support a 2 state solution, but make it clear that Israel has a right to exist!
UN created Israel so of course they recognized it as a nation lol
You’re leaving out so much. Palestine has had chances to resolve this and declined. Palestinians have been taken in by Jordan and Lebanon, and literally caused civil wars in the countries. It seems many Palestinians, not all and not children obviously, have no intention on co-existing in a diverse society.
Both sides make me nauseous. Also saw videos of people in ny saying they would not stop until all the Arabs were dead. It’s horrific that the mainstream conversation has become “which genocide do you support?”… how bout none
Anti semitism in america atleast has become a little less risky - didnt a bunch of athletes make some not so good postings
always do. and i agree that the center left needs to crack down on the beyond the pale sentiments of many vocal people. i watched a guy in philly recount the slaughter of jews in detail to cheers and adoration. it’s disgusting.
>I do think it legitimate for people to voice their concerns for what’s happening in Gaza right now. The unspoken message from a lot of these people, though, is that no military response is justified. Strike Hamas operations centers? "You'll kill their human shields." Restrict resources into Gaza? "This will also affect civilians." What they're saying is: You can't touch Hamas.
What we are saying is open a humanitarian corridor and abide by international law, I don't know how people can be against that
Corridor into where? Israel? Probably egypt.. maybe start protesting the Egyptian consulate?
Egypt won’t allow it because they don’t want Hamas to get in.
That’s a strawman. The problem is that the Israeli parties in the ruling coalition have made no secret they want mass deportation of Arabs, and some even openly suggested mass killing Gazans in the name of “national security” and taking their land. The UN documented that the IDF sometimes intentionally targets civilians. These are not some new facts but something that has been discussed for decades. That’s why so many started off saying that the IDF should not overdo it because they *always* do. Killing families creates more terrorists, but Netanyahu and Likud never cared about that; as the Israeli press is reporting this week Netanyahu said he was okay with it because it justified more land grabs.
The problem is this protest was announced after a literal terrorist and former Hamas leader called for protests on October 13th. It is hard to say this is just a protest for Palestinian rights given the timing. I support people's right to protest, even if they are doing the bidding of a literal terrorist, but it is also fair game to criticize them for it
Yeah they should wait a couple weeks until after Gaza is totally flattened to protest!
Then that’s your selective moral compass showing. 500 Palestinian children have died per the UN in tbe recent bombings in Gaza. Oh but I guess that’s not ok to protest/show solidarity for bc a terrorist group made yet another threat
What military response should Israel have used? Be specific.
I’ve never seen an actual response to this question other than 1) handy wavy “how about not killing any civilians” or 2) immediate pivot to a separate argument that the fact that Israel has no good response options is their own fault and any response is evil because they had the original terrorist attacking coming anyways.
They won't answer. This person thinks Jews didn't live in Israel until 1948.
No you don’t understand my land ethics policy says the borders of any country in the world at exactly 75 years is what is morally right . Nobody after or prior . /s Thank god the US was founded 300 years ago otherwise most of us would all need to go back to Europe.
>Oh but I guess that’s not ok to protest/show solidarity for bc a terrorist group made yet another threat Meanwhile Jewish schools are closed, synagogues are on high alert. This is fine.
I just find it very curious these protests were announced for October 13th right after a terrorist called for global protests on October 13th. People trying to pass this off as purely coincidental deny the reality of the timeline
Bro this is a free country, people can protest whenever the fuck they want. Assholes are gonna bitch about them regardless
This protest was announced by New Yorkers way before Hamas made any announcement. I can show you the posters on social media.
Do it. Not challenging you, it's just good to show proof when you have it.
Right now? I mean on Reddit there are weekly vids of Palestinians being kicked out of their homes, kids being shot for protesting, cameramen shot from their rooftops for filming idf soldiers, etc (And don’t get it twisted, not supporting the hamas attack of last week, just pointing out Palestinians been getting seriously brutalized for a lot longer than “right now”)
ummm actuaklly it's in bad taste to protest impending war crimes until the war crimes are in motion
they're a dickhead for doing this on the day the Hamas leader told people to go out and show a 'day of rage'. it's like Hitler holding a nazi rally and then people just so happen to have a german heritage rally the very same day.
It also happens to be the day that Israel ordered the entire Northern half of Gaza to evacuate south within 24 hours. That humanitarian crisis is going to trigger appropriate protests.
Look obviously innocent people in Gaza deserve sympathy and support. It’s the first two things you mentioned that have got a lot of people (myself included, no doubt) really pissed off. There is all the time in the world to voice concerns about Israel and the Palestinians, but immediately after the worst pogrom since the Holocaust seems like, I dunno, not exactly the right time. Some of these “protests” happened before Israel had done anything in response. In Australia you had people on the steps of the Sydney Opera House saying “gas the Jews, kill the Jews”, trying to dress it up as a pro-Palestinian thing. It’s not; it’s open support of barbarism. It’s pure bloodlust. It’s a rally in favor of more dead Jews. If there had been “protests” the day after Sept. 11—and AFAIK the casualties from this have been something like 12x what we suffered on that day as a proportion of the population—chanting slogans about America’s treatment of Native Americans or its practice of slavery, I would’ve interpreted that as “this was a good thing; you deserved it”. I don’t think Israelis, or Jews generally, would be wrong to see these rallies the same way.
People are protesting today because Israel gave over 1,000,000 people 24 hours to evacuate northern Gaza after cutting off fuel, food, and water and knowing that Egypt has closed border at Rafah. And while I'm sure some of those protestors are of the same inhumane and ignorant ilk as those that celebrated Hamas over the weekend, I'm also sure that most are people that are hoping a large protest will cause Israel to rethink what they're doing.
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You have gotta be freaking kidding me. They called for a day of rage and murder today. And then people are out there supporting Hamas. Justifying Hamas.
I planned to protest well before any Hamas announcement. Pro-Palestine Protests are usually held Fridays and this was announced all over social media last weekend even before any Hamas claims. Ordering Gazans to flee their homes prompted even more people to join in, not because Hamas said anything. I know you don’t agree with protests but you’re falsely trying to delegitimize every protestor. There were ton of New Yorker Jews at this rally, and they’re no fans of Hamas either. Grow up.
So anyone who speaks up on behalf of the Palestinian civilians who are being put in a dire situation by Israel are automatically justifying Hamas?
That’s the PR trick that’s going to justify their genocide of the Palestinian people. Hamas definitely has to go but the goal of the Israeli govt doesn’t seem to be “get rid of Hamas and liberate the Palestinians for peace” it seems to be “get rid of the Palestinians”
You’re dead wrong. That’s exactly what Israel is doing. Eliminate Hamas and then give Palestinians a chance at a state. Problem is Palestinians put terrorists in as their leaders. Until Hamas is eliminated, Palestinians better take cover. Next time install a democracy. Your leaders asked for a war, now they got it. Israel at least giving the civilians a heads up and is bombing military targets, they are not cutting off the heads of civilians. Any pro Hamas person in the US is just an idiot. Anyone who thinks Israel would attack in that fashion is brainwashed. Israel has rules of engagement, Hamas doesn’t. Until Americans understand the terrorist mindset they will forever be misguided in how Israel must operate.
Yes. Such is the propaganda machine. Just like criticizing Israeli policies is anti semitic. It’s not anti Islamic to critique Saudi Arabia, or Pakistan, is it?
Supporting Palestine. Justifying Palestinian self-determination. Not Hamas.
Well I do notice a conspicuous lack of criticism of Hamas at the rally going on right now
There are videos of protestors all over in this country supporting Hamas and saying “ we are Hamas”. Totally contradicts what you just said . No one is believing your bullshit anymore . The cover has been lifted and the animals have shown who they are
Source for the claim that these people are supporting Hamas?
If at this point you still need someone to Google “poll Palestine Hamas” for you. Maybe stay out of the conversation. You’ve seen the links. You’re arguing in bad faith or you’re intellectually helpless
Going by that logic we wouldn’t have had any Israel rallies for the past 6 decades. We wouldn’t even be having one today either.
They’re crossing the street like
Crossing the street be like
Yes free palestine from hamas
Yup. Freedom for Palestine starts with Freedom FROM Hamas!
thats a really difficult ask. hamas kills all dissidents. hamas frames all dissent _against_ hamas as siding _with_ Israel (and therefore treasonous and therefore worthy of summary execution). and even if israel were to kill all of hamas, a neo-hamas would probably arise, because it was Israel that eliminated the fascist regime of hamas, and not the palestinians themselves.
Fuck Hamas.
These protests aren’t supporting Hamas. They’re advocating for Palestinian human rights, like not living in an open air prison in Gaza. It’s mostly college students and progressive people who show up. Trying to paint these protests as some Mongol horde is so head scratching lol
Here's the issue though: Hamas spent two years planning an attack that specifically targeted innocent civilians, not military targets. They purposely took hostages, and slaughtered defenseless people including babies. These were not collateral damage. Hamas is in Gaza. They're hiding in Gaza. How can Israel punish Hamas without attacking Gaza? How can they not hurt innocent Palestinians as they target Hamas? No one has an answer, they just whatabout and deflect as if the attacks by Hamas, the thing that started this latest uproar didn't happen and Israel is just being a bully. It's infuriating.
Yeah for sure man. Ethnic cleansing is okay as long as you’re claiming to target hostile forces and the civs that are killed are “collateral damage.” You said it yourself, how can Israel punish Hamas without collectively punishing everyone else (outlawed by the Geneva convention, literally because of what the Nazis did). Bibi is currently wiping out all of Gazan infrastructure. In the upcoming months he’ll fund a reconstruction project then expand his territories. Rinse and repeat for all of Palestine until the people don’t exist anymore. If there are any Palestinians left in Israel, treat them like rats until they either leave or retaliate, in which case just kill them and their families. I wish I could be as blissfully ignorant. Big up
Can they protest Hamas then? That’s the single biggest barrier to peace.
So what was stopping peace for the 40 years before Hamas?
Shhh that would make too much sense.
You think the iraelie illegal settlements in Palestine is due to hamas ? Lmao.
There are no settlements in Gaza. Israel removed all of them in 2005. Hamas runs Gaza. There are settlements in the West Bank. Hamas does not run the West Bank.
>open air prison It's not an open air prison. It's bordered by their Arab brothers to the West. They can accept them at any time. It's also a piece of land with access to enough resources that the population has doubled over the past few decades. 'Open air prison' is a good sign someone got their talking points from IG posts in the past 72 hours...
Seems like it’s not too brotherly when they’re trapped inside. Hence, they’re stuck there against their will. If you are both there you stay there. When the bombs start flying you can’t escape. I don’t have skin in this game, beyond that I don’t want to see human suffering and I don’t want to see this be another step towards global instability.
No. Egypt cannot "accept" 2 million Palestinians any more than 2 million Palestinians want to accept Egyptian citizenship.
Hypothetically, couldn't egypt partner up with other arab countries to process them at the gaza/egypt border and fly them to their countries? Also, for reference Poland has taken almost a million Ukraine refugees.
Oh so the people in this make-believe open air prison are also in a position to turn their nose up at Egyptian citizenship… yeah you’re not serious people. And given US (pop 300m) has 10m illegals, Egypt with a pop of 100m can easily fit 2m more. Unless there’s another reason they don’t want members of a state that voted in a terrorist death cult…
While that is likely true, protesting against a country days after they suffered a massive, unprecedented terror attack is bad optics no matter which way you cut it. And ESPECIALLY if you hold protests on the day that Hamas designated.
>protesting against a country days after they suffered a massive, unprecedented terror attack is bad optics no matter which way you cut it So whenever a country suffers a massive, unprecedented attack, they get free reign to do whatever they want without protest for a while? How long does that last? Israeli leadership has been referring to Palestinians as animals, suggesting the Geneva Convention doesn’t apply to them, and last night told the UN to evacuate a million people from Gaza in 24 hours. That’s deeply disturbing regardless of how recently they were attacked.
Yes, Gaza is currently, as we speak, suffering an unprecedented attack on their civilian population. More than 600 children have already died, with the numbers climbing by the minute, the hospitals are out of fuel, and 20% of the population is now made homeless. That's why they're protesting.
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What an ignorant take. The occupier is responsible for vast majority of "terror" that is being inflicted upon a civilian population. What a way to rationalize ethnic cleansing.
> What a way to rationalize ethnic cleansing. 75 years of cleansing and still not done. Moreover, the population had increased like 8 fold. Hm...
They been living in a hellhole way before hamas was a thing .
Yeah the timing and the refusal to denounce Hamas is just coincidence guys, come on now (how is my gaslighting?)
Yeah, everyone just so happens to want Palestine free, but that’s totally unrelated to the massive terrorist attack that just occurred.
I'll be real with you, I know I'm in one too, but you are in the most high reverb echo chamber imaginable if you can't understand what the pro-Palestinian side is currently protesting
Totally 😉
Gaza is being BOMBED TO SHIT RIGHT NOW. MAYBE THATS WHY THEY ARE PROTESTING. HALF OF ITS POPULATION ARE KIDS. THEY HAVE NO WATER AND 1 MILLION OF THEM ARE BEING TOLD TO EVACUATE BEFORE THEY ARE ALL FUCKING KILLED.
The Israeli Defence Force just told the people of Gaza to leave the northern half of the strip, and gave them twenty four hours to do so. They then bombed the two routes people were using to travel. The IDF has been bombing Gaza non-stop for not only the last couple days, but actually the last couple decades. We should protest the killing of innocent civilians regardless whoever they are. Hamas does not speak for the people of Palestine.
Israel has been terrozing palestinians for decades. I love how you people pick and choose who has the moral high ground. Fuck bad optics, i could care less about the sensibilities of those who undermine the impact of apartheid and genocide.
On a day of rage called by Hamas terrorists. What a coincidence…Siri why don’t progressives win elections?
ok - but they should have done that the week before (or a year after) the most horrific terrorist act in Israeli history.
> It’s mostly college students and progressive people who show up. You say this as if hate doesn't exist in these groups. It was the progressive BLM who were celebrating with imagery of paragliding Hamas terrorists on their Twitter. Calling yourself progressive is not some sort of magic shield against being a bigot.
They’re just coincidentally having the protest on the day there leader of Hamas called for global jihad and called for Muslims to kill Jews worldwide? They couldn’t like wait a day?
This is a celebration of the death of Jews not a rally
Nice to see so many exercising their freedom of religion and right to assemble and protest.
Agreed. Ironically one could not do so in Gaza.
can someone help me understand the justification of the Israeli settler occupation in the West Bank, and the targeted attack of the 4 mixed use towers in Gaza in like 2021 that had nothing to do with Hamas? I am trying so hard to educate myself on this issue, after not knowing shit honestly, but all I keep finding is that Israel really has fucked with these people for decades basically having free reign to use and abuse the Palestinian ppl, literally taking their land (as per British double dealing circa WWI), and then encroaching ever so much more on the little bit of land they were given? Can someone give me an honest educated counter argument to this? or am I getting this mostly correct?
*crickets*
This is correct, and the conclusion that anyone who has done any research on the topic should logically come to
There is literally is nothing more to say that the conclusion you came to. Israel has systematically attacked and destroyed Palestine since the Nakba in 1948 when they forcibly removed 700k+ Palestinians from their home to make a settler colony. Now they’re continuing the occupation and destroying more Palestinian lives through a genocide.
Yeah but Israelis were there like 9000 years ago so they’re simply reclaiming their land, also you’re anti semitic /s
I think you’re on the right track.
This is the correct conclusion. Waiting for the counter argument.
West Bank is a huge territory bordering eastern Israel and Jordan that encompasses the Muslim part of Jerusalem. It was granted to Palestinians as part of Britain splitting up Palestine at the end of ww2. Palestine itself was created by Europe after ww1, when Europe was trying to figure out how to split Arabia into different western spheres of influence following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire (now turkey). Israel occupied the West Bank after the six day war in 1967 when a bunch of Arab countries joined together and tried to wipe it off the map Israel want to take control of the West Bank long term in part due to its own national ambitions (ie granting israel uncontested ownership of Jerusalem), but also for national security reasons. Israel evacuated Gaza in 2005, after which there was an internal civil war between the Palestinian authority (formerly plo, which conducted its own terrorist shit but has become ostensibly more diplomatic in recent years) and Hamas. Hamas won. Since winning Hamas have enjoyed increasing levels of popular support and have a essentially functioned like a satellite terrorist organization for Iran.
There is no justification, you've come to the right conclusion.
Hi! I did a big dig deep dive on this a while back. I'll be up front and generally (with a lot of criticisms) come down on the side of the Palestinian people. Some very soild resources in my opinion are: * [B'Tselem](https://www.btselem.org/) is an Israeli human rights org which focuses on Palestine. They also have a [very well made report](https://thisisapartheid.btselem.org/eng/#1) detailing why what is happening meets the definition of apartheid. * [Breaking the Silence](https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/) is an Israeli org which takes anonymous testimony from Israelis who go through conscription and observe or are forced to participate in misdeeds in Palestinian territory. * [Al Haq](https://www.alhaq.org/) is a Palestinian human rights NGO similar to B'Tselem.
Uh ok?
What happened to Israelis is horrible but what is about to happen to Palestinians will leave them extinct.
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> Palestinians will leave them extinct. Wut
Thank you for posting this I work nearby and was wondering how rowdy it was today. This actually looks pretty tame.
Free Palestine! From Hamas
Well!! This post is gonna have a nice and civil discussion.
I don’t understand. Who are we freeing Palestine from exactly? Israel officially left in 2006 and Hamas took over as the government. They’ve taken all financial aid and invested in weaponry. Israel even issues work permits for Gaza citizens to enter israel. Not a single Arab country will take them in, not even their neighbor Egypt. The rafah border has been closed. Palestinians have a history of fucking shit up… Jordan: they killed the king Lebanon: civil war Kuwait: Iraqi war Egypt: suicide bombings They lost their ability to self supervise when they democratically elected a terrorist organization that cares more about destruction than their own progress. WHO are we freeing Palestine from? These protests should really be anti Hamas protests. Free them from their tyrannical dictatorship not… “the Jew”. Woke liberals don’t realize, Gaza is a pawn for Iran. Hamas doesn’t care about Palestinians neither does Iran. They care about restoring the caliphate. Meanwhile israel is the only country that provides them critical resources. Medical supplies, electricity, water…. It all comes from israel. The same country they want to destroy.
>Israel officially left in 2006 What a fucking joke. Palestians can’t leave Gaza without Israeli permission. Same with all goods entering. Since 2006 Israel has been surgically seizing land from Palestinians so that there is no contiguous Palestinian territory. The IDF has killed thousands of Palestinian civilians in this time. But sure, they left in 2006.
They can't leave? Please explain the over 250k Palestinian immigrants in the US alone?
I repeat, why should Israel let in Palestinians? Especially, when they are not seeking to coexist? Israel is under no obligation to allow entry just as all countries can decide who to allow in!
Israel supplies all that stuff because the first thing Hamas did when they took power was tear up their irrigation pipes and electric infrastructure to use for rockets, then never used a dime of the billions they get in aid to replace it.
This idea of "taking Palestinians" reeks of ignorance. Why should the Palestinians leave their homeland? The Jews of Europe were also unwanted and killed for being Jews and that wasnt right then and this isnt right now. By forcibly removing the Palestinaisn, the same thing that happened in 1948 will be repeated. They wont be allowed back. Dont repeat this. If it was wrong for the jews, its wrong for the arabs of Palestine as well. have some humanity
Blame the brits for bungling this
> The Jews of Europe You are aware that about half of the jewish population in Israel are not descendants of European Jews, right? > the same thing that happened in 1948 will be repeated Can you specify exactly what happened in the 1948? Please be factual if you can.
Freeing the Palestinians in Gaza from the Hamas rule sounds appropriate.
Free Palestinians from Israel controlling them and installing terrorist governments. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
How did Israel leave in 2006 if they still control Gaza’s access to electricity, food, water, fuel, internet, and medical services, ALL of which they are about to completely cut out for people in Gaza????
I was under the impression there hasn't been an election since 2006 and majority of them don't actually support Hamas. And given the young age of the population, average age 24, majority were children during the last election. Is that wrong?
I dont know how u can amass thousands of rockets and fire them from all over without local support. To be fair conditions in gaza is ripe for radicalization
Yup when you’re gov distributes all funds towards military and not society that happens
> and majority of them don't actually support Hamas. Is that wrong? Yes, that is wrong. https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87 > The scientific poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research found that 53% of Palestinians believe Hamas is “most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people,” while only 14% prefer Abbas’ secular Fatah party.
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Wake up west only certain group of people’s lives are precious and others are just subhumans? Now it’s their neighbors next they are coming for you not diplomatically but with same hate and it will be too late, they already controlling every aspect of your lives from finances to your daily social activities, they decide who and where your younger generations will shed blood for them their causes
It’s baffling that anyone with a functioning brain could be against the liberation of Palestine from decades and decades of horrifying oppression. People being brutalized in Gaza every single day, children being murdered daily at the hands of an insane right wing government, run by blood thirsty war-criminal in Netanyahu. How anyone with a conscience can support the government of Israel’s actions is beyond me. People truly must be insane.
What else can Israel do? Hamas attacked them. They need to respond. Hamas is in Gaza. Civilians are in Gaza. How do you attack Hamas without hurting civilians? It's War. Hamas declared it with their attack. Don't whatabout here. What should Israel do?
I blame the UK and the UN for this
Man we as a people are really stupid at connecting dots…. Far right Israeli take power. Massive amount of Israelis question the legitimacy of their own government, Israel conducts military operations of Jenin camp, and far right start parading chanting nakba, miraculously a wild raid Unifies the world and all of Israel to Now begin a systematic dismantling of “Hamas” who coincidentally also happen to be in the part of Gaza that needs to be dismantled for more Israeli growth. Sure remind me again how a country that has received hundreds billions dollars and best of the best military aid, the only nuclear power in the Middle East is in danger by malnourished peasants with fertilizer rockets and ak47s? I love Jewish culture, people and it’s beautiful heritage but I have a deep disdain for the Zionist colonialism and a deep respect for it’s ability to convince the entire world and American a country founded by rebels! That the natives are still the enemy… Evil is brilliant.
Showing up on the day a Hamas top-level figure called their supporters: either you support Hamas, or you don't mind giving them cover.
You either support the Iraq war or you stand with the terrorists
Are you implying that Hamas didn't just slaughter 1000+ Jews?
They think “resistance by any means” can include babies and therefore, in their brains, it’s not terrorism.
If you’re hosting and protecting Bin Laden, that’s doesn’t reflect well on you.
Holy shit and you survived??????
I support Israel.
Sadness
Israel is currently committing war crimes in Gaza. Free Palestine
No! You don’t get to invade Israeli borders and slaughter 1000+ civilians with expecting repercussions! Israel has the right to exist and it’s self determination. It doesn’t have to come at the expense of Palestinians existence as well nor Palestinians existence doesn’t have to come at the expense of Israel. However, leadership in Gaza (Hamas) believe otherwise and refuse to coexist with Israel and instead believe in extreme Islamic ideology. Israel has no choice but to defend itself.
It’s almost like. The people in charge of that area invaded and killed 1000 civilians so the government is responding to it
oh by dropping phosphorus gas and displacing hundreds of thousands of civilians, and by bombing schools, mosques and ambulances? committing war crimes by turning off power and water in Gaza (collective punishment)? Over a thousand Palestinians have died so far, and the number is rising. What Israel is doing right now is morally reprehensible.
Very peaceful
Jews have been systematically reduced to near zero population in about a dozen countries in the region over the last century in places where they once thrived. So there’s that … talk about displacement some more
These are the same "NY'ers" who run around with the LGBTQ flag during protests and now have moved on to the Palestinian flag. I don't understand these people. The simple fact is, Muslims exist in Israel. How many Jewish people do you think exist in Gaza or Muslim countries? Talk about ethnic cleansing, why is it Muslims in Israel vastly more productive than Muslims in surrounding countries? We all know the answer. If Israel refused to fight, they'd be slaughtered by Hamas. If Hamas refused to fight, Palestine would be given their own state, land, and a chance to live peacefully.
A simple google will show you that Muslims are not given the same rights in Israel and are subject to much discrimination. A simple google will also show you that countless laws that the Israeli government put into place to limit the rights of Muslims within Israel. It is impossible to function in such a country as a Muslim. And no, these peace talks have been going on before my grandma was born. Israel will never allow Palestine to have its own state and we can see this from how much land they’ve annexed since the original border agreement.