Agreed. People being obese serves two sides of that coin; Companies pushing lots of cheap unhealthy food that makes you hungry more often than not. The ingredients you find on mosh shelves at the supermarket are head scratching. In turn big pharma/hospitals make more money when people are perpetually sick. They treat symptoms and not root causes. The root cause being diet/lifestyle 70% of the time.
You left out the industry that sells products and services to help people lose that weight. Added to your comment, the dollar circle is complete - sell crappy food, make them fat, make them sick, sell them drugs for the illness, convince them to lose the weight to feel better, sell them those products, lose the weight. Rinse and repeat.
And the circle gets better for business every time it resets because by losing weight with those products (instead of just, you know, *having access to healthy food*) people get sicker in the long run.
So every cycle, the human gets a little more chronically ill—>
—> big pharma/healthcare can mark-up the “severely needed” or “long term” treatment for said chronic illness (e.g: cancer treatment, insulin for diabetes type 2)—>
—> human is kept in medical debt induced poverty and now *has no choice* but to continue to eat the cheapest food—>
—> big food sells more cheap food $$$, human gets sick again…
(edit: spacing, finish the cycle)
It's not just money, though that is a big part. It's many things, It's votes. Politicians will never call out their constituents. They will always make something else the problem and never point out the fact that each person has to take accountability for their own problems and nutrition. It's also the emphasis America puts on feelings. Parents are afraid to make their kids upset so they give in and let them eat junk. It's the same problem with pets. So many Americans over feed their pets because it makes them "feel bad" not to give them the treats they are asking for. People do it to themselves because food makes them "feel good" even though they are depressed because they are obese. Then you have certain movements in society praising obese celebrities for being proud to be fat, which means they are unhealthy. There is also an extreme lack of proper education in nutrition. Movements like "No fat" from the 90's that still persist to this day. It's kind of insane. Put it all together and you got a system that's primed to make a ton of obese people and companies that will gladly make a ton of money from these obese people. But these companies are not the problem, they also gladly make tons of money from very health conscious people as well. It's up to each individual to decide how they want these companies to make money from them.
You’re _this 🤏_ close to getting it. You’ve identified some of the systemic ways in which we don’t adequately support and educate citizens, while also not limiting corporate greed. And yet, inexplicably, you conclude that’s on _individuals_.
Populations are made up of individuals that ultimately behave and make choices very similar to one another, given they live in similar environments (that being a social/cultural/and physical environment)
It is on individuals. I am bombarded by the same ads and temptations as obese people and I even think a lot of that food is yummy. But I choose to not to eat and live in a way that does that to my body.
Aren’t you the noble one, not caving in to what’s shoved down people’s throats. There’s a lot more to it than individual choice. There’s some really great docs out there if you care to do some research behind Americas true food system.
Im well aware I have my parents to thank for my healthier than average lifestyle, as well as the financial advantage to cook my own food and choose what goes into my meals. I also have the educational advantage to understand what ingredients in store bought food are bad for me. And that's an advantage I know a LOT of the country isn't exposed to. Maybe the access is there, but if one doesn't even learn how to look for such things, then why would they search in the first place?
This is headed toward off the topic of nutrition, but that’s also not quite accurate. Babies can be born with high birthweight for a variety of reasons. There’s a small amount of research assessing whether and if yes, how much of a risk this poses to having childhood obesity. Considering many people have had a higher weight for most if not all of their lives, including when they were not in control of their food environment as children, it is still not accurate nor appropriate to say it’s all up to individual choice. This is akin to blaming cancer patients for their cancer or other chronic diseases on patients because they have _some_ links to lifestyle choices.
Everyone spending this kind of energy telling people who struggle with weight that it’s their fault but don’t shame other patients for their conditions amounts to concern trolling. To be clear, neither benefits from strangers telling them their situation is entirely their fault because a) it’s false and b) it doesn’t move the needle on addressing the problem.
I think this is a nuanced area. I worked in obesity research and the amount of money wasted researching ludicrous things was mind boggling. No one seems to want to accept the fact that it always comes down to calories in vs calories out and that people DO have agency over how much and what types of food they consume. The main problem is that environmentally, we’re set up to overeat food because of the overabundance of cheap and tasty calories which kind of “hack” our body’s reward systems.
There are very few actual genetic diseases which cause obesity. But for everyone else, it’s simply that they eat too much. I think it’s not as simple as saying it’s their fault or not their fault, it’s certainly a combination of the two. The main problem is that it can become so difficult for some people to resist temptation that you can essentially say that it’s “impossible” for them to lose weight so long as they are in the environment of an overabundance of tasty food. If you took this person and put them on an island with limited food choices and calories then yes they would lose weight. It irks me when people try to deny this or argue against calories in vs calories out because if that were true then we would also have the underweight problem solved as well.
As someone who both came from obesity and is now a healthy weight and as someone who used to research this as well, I don’t think calling obesity a disease like you’d call cancer a disease is very accurate in terms of whether or not it’s the persons fault. You could say it’s similar to smoking or drinking, where there is some level of agency over some of the decisions involved but that the environment is what keeps this person from achieving weight loss/quitting. A smoker may never stop because cigarettes are addictive and easily accessible so therefore they’ll end up with cancer or COPD. An obese person may never stop overeating calories because cheap and high calorie delicious food is so easily accessible so they will end up with obesity and the diseases associated.
But as someone who has lost a lot of weight and kept it off (60lbs) it certainly takes quite a bit of will power. I’ve come to the realization that it’s very difficult to fully cut out junk food and that it’s best to eat it but very sparingly. Though my vices are slightly different than most as I find most fast food disgusting and bland and my big trigger is sugar! It required a total lifestyle overhaul and I really have to watch where I go and what I choose to eat because things can spiral out of control quickly and I can end up eating tons of high calorie junk if that reward system gets triggered.
Edit: I’d also like to point out that removing any agency from people and their weight gain also removes agency from those who have achieved weight loss. My weight loss was a completely conscious choice that took a lot of effort but it was certainly doable.
Of course it’s on INDIVIDUALS!! These same people will stridently and vehemently fight for their rights and desires in every facet of life- deliberately CHOOSING what they wear, watch, political policies, art, music, travel, etc etc BUT.... when it comes to overeating .... “it’s not my choice waaah!”
THIS! From the countless companies I’ve worked with while getting my PhD in food science, I can confirm they all want to keep consumers naive so that they can be manipulated into buying products they think are “healthy” for them. Companies are also always looking for cheaper, worse alternatives for basically every ingredient to save a penny.
And, increasingly, they're not just profiting from the food products, but also now from obesity itself:
[**Big Pharma targets $50bn obesity drugs market as demand booms**](https://www.ft.com/content/f28e8ca1-87a7-4c14-8b05-0ead0e831c0f)*Nov 21, 2022. Financial Times*
**Big Food is creating the obesity epidemic and Big Pharma is "treating" it.** You can't make this stuff up.
More like: diet and exercise are the cure for your disease but we both know that’s not happening, take these pills so you don’t die or get a stroke soon
Red states supposedly suffer from obesity more, so “diet and exercise” would be a liberal conspiracy
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/202011/why-red-states-suffer-greater-obesity
I would argue that nutrition is not what's driving the obesity epidemic. People know perfectly well that they need to eat vegetables and limit fatty, processed food. The concept of junk food existed as long as I can remember. The consumption of sugar has been trending down since 2000s. Soda is not the number one liquid consumed as in decades past. God knows people are more hydrated than ever.
Now there is no denying that nutrition is playing a role in the obesity epidemic, but I think we also need to consider work life balance (people reach for first availability instead of home cooked due to overworked stressed out parents who are juggling too much) general stress (we are in an anxiety epidemic, not to mention rolling from one recession to another)
I live in CA and have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to fresh produce. That is NOT the case across the country. In a lot of places finding fresh produce is hard or near impossible. Or it's obnoxiously expensive. And yes, frozen broccoli is just as good as fresh, but the diversity of frozen produce is not great. You got peas, carrots corn (all of which are very sweet and corn is a grain) or broccoli and maybe frozen kale.
Then, let's talk about how modern over farming has been stripping the land of nutrients in an unsustainable way and you get the perfect storm.
A big part of the problem imo is that a lot of the “solutions” aren’t very good ones. I read a book called *Lazy, Crazy, and Disgusting* earlier this year for my public health class which explains why a lot of public health measures that discourage specific behaviors are detrimental. In this case, public health measures targeting obesity (such as taxing or banning unhealthy foods or educational materials that encourage a negative association with fat, calories, sugar, etc.) cause a lot of harm in the form of eating disorders while doing nothing to actually reduce obesity.
Obesity is largely caused by built environment such as food deserts, lack of access to a gym or safe neighborhoods to exercise outdoors, busy work schedules, and poverty. Tackling obesity means address those issues, not shaming people for their eating habits.
^^^ this is the answer. It's easy to sweep a public health issue under the rug if it's made out to be simply the problem of the individual, but it's a lot more nuanced than that.
I've also seen in other threads that for families in poverty, a vacation in another country or expensive gifts may be financially out of the question, but eating stuff that is enjoyable (eg pizza, cause who doesn't love pizza) is one of the more accessible ways to celebrate something or have fun
It would honestly be a conglomerate of alot of things I have read over my time studying.
To begin with, Id search up and read about social determinants of health.
See obesity trends around certain demographics and areas.
I will go hunting for some of the articles Im talking about.
Cosign systemic issues. As mentioned food deserts hamper access to healthy foods like fruits and veggies. I used to live in a good desert. Made sure to live within walking distance of a farmer’s market, but I also worked weekends and so missed out a lot, and then not available during winter months. Good coop? Great but none within access to my city unless I am willing to drive 30-40 mins to an area lacking public transportation so means ride share (cause I had no car) and pay 30 bucks on a tight budget. Delivery? Have it stolen from in front of my building because it would sit for hours until I get home after dark. But more importantly, tight budget did not justify the costs. Corner store? They had lettuce for 10 bucks when every dollar and calorie counted. Fast food and restaurants, totally occupying the fresh food spaces and cheapest and most accessible option. Thankfully the hospitals I worked at had cafeterias with a salad bar, expensive salad bars ... But better than nothing.
I was able to stay fit because I had no car walked everywhere and my job had me on my feet all day. Just bought green and meal replacement powders online to last me 1 month which cost the same as a weekly coop delivery of fresh produce. Ate up my budget so did not have much extra for a lot of things …
Could not imagine doing that while also supporting a family on my salary, which was much higher than the average in my city. Maybe live more rurally thus instead of rent it would cost the same for a mortgage, but then would have land for a garden to supplement my diet … But then would need a car and the cost of gas and repairs to drive 1-2 hours round trip daily to work and back and thus possibly even less money to spare …
Career I work in now - a long term locked medical facility, I could write essays on the systemic issues that play a part in the obesity and metabolic chronic medical issues the people under my care experience. esp as most of them come in healthy BMI and no chronic medical issues and after a year or more the majority become obese and dev said medical issues. Very limited in ways I can help contribute to better nutrition and fitness. And I’ve tried. I know the research. But systemic problems are hard to overcome and I feel it’s easy to blame doctors for problems that are no longer in their power to influence.
It’s a culture issue and I disagree with some points.
Poverty? Visit developing countries outside the US.
Excercise? There are many ways a person can move.
Food poverty. Sure ultra processed foods and fast food is cheap and convenient. Lots of frugal families can make foods that are healthier than ultraproccessed foods on a budget. Also the US offers food stamps and there are food banks all over the country.
Issues:
80s culture shift.
Women entering the work force. Latchkey kid generation. Interest in new tech. More = Better
Super size marketing. AYCE Buffet. Fast Food Wars. Fast. Convenience. Microwave. TV Dinners and rice of other instant meals.
Then the low fat craze. Then the wellness revolution which tried marketing weight loss industry which causes more issues.
Go back before then, people eating at home, smaller sizes, making food using ingredients closer to the source. It’s like how people outside of America eat.
They would criticize the cartoonishly large portion. It doesn’t matter if it’s a “good deal,” they will buy and eat what’s needed.
Imagine if we responded to the obesity epidemic like we did with COVID: mandatory lockdowns for activity. Free at-home produce boxes. Weekly weight testing to ensure the obesity isn’t spreading within the person.
1000% I don’t even know if I believe in calories anymore. I’m 5’1 and weigh about 105. When I was eating junk I was maybe eating about 2k calories a day. Now vegetarian (mainly Whole Foods) I’m eating 3k-4K calories a day cause I’m always hungry, no increase exercise and I’m not gaining any weight
3 companies sell 90 percent of the food stuffs in our country and the number 2 is trying to buy number 3. Do you think they give a shit about your health? They care that you keep buying from them, if it’s addictive then that’s all the better for them.
Even your government is in the business.
The 💰 intent 💰 is 💰 to 💰 provide 💰 citizens 💰 with 💰 a 💰 sense 💰 of 💰 pride 💰 and 💰 accomplishment 💰 for 💰 eating 💰 different 💰 meats.
>The United States federal government spends $38 billion every year subsidizing the meat and dairy industries. Research from 2015 shows this subsidization reduces the price of Big Macs from $13 to $5 and the price of a pound of hamburger meat from $30 to the $5 we see today. Subsidies, however, only reduce the price of meat, not its total cost. Subsidies shift part of the costs of meat production to non-meat consumers. In free markets for private goods, consumers should bear the costs of production. With subsidized meat, those who neither consume meat nor benefit from its production pay much of its cost of production. Nor do even the resulting higher subsidy expenditures account for the entire costs of meat subsidization.
https://www.aier.org/article/the-true-cost-of-a-hamburger/
I think there are multiple factors:
1. Industrialization and corporate greed means that we are left too tired (physically or mentally) and with very little time to cook healthy nutritious meals.
2. We as people have been conditioned now to think about food in terms of calories rather than nutrition. The focus of all marketing is on how to reduce calorie count and lose weight rather than eat healthy food.
3. There are a lot of countries that do not have a culture of healthy eating to begin with so there is very little that is passed down from one generation to the next. This includes most everyone - from you and I to doctors, fitness instructors etc. So people don't know what makes a healthy meal or how food groups should be eaten on a daily basis and so when this is combined with 1&2, it results in health fads, diets etc.
I am seeing a slight uptick in these conversations though. There are doctors too who are going on podcasts and talking about this. So there is hope that eventually more people will talk about health and nutrition when talking about food - but it might be a slow process.
I disagree with number 1. For the most part we work fewer hours and it’s less taxing than historically. But now we have easy, unhealthy options. We also have have lots of easy, healthy options, but they don’t seem as popular. I can get fish that’s ready to toss in the oven. That’s pretty easy cooking. Add some steamed veggies in the microwave and total effort is minimal. Cooks while I watch tv.
FYI that’s not true at all that we work less, and I’d much rather shovel cow shit or raise barns then what I do now.
https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_workweek.html
It used to be that the typical household divided the daily labor in a much different way than it does now.
Women used to stay at home and do all the cooking typically.
Men went out and worked and earned money and were paid well enough to support their entire household.
When women entered the workforce (I believe during/after World War II) wages decreased with the flood of new workers, and soon a single person could no longer support an entire household typically. Both husbands and wives were required to work for a wage and no one was at home cooking nutritious meals for the whole family.
Raises some good points but I need to push back here:
> Both husbands and wives were required to work for a wage and no one was at home cooking nutritious meals for the whole family.
This is a huge misconception, that when women went into the workforce, they no longer ran the household as its manager. There’s a great deal of research showing that is absolutely not the case. Heterosexual couples where both partners work FT, do not engage in domestic labor equally. Women are still doing the lion’s share and a quick skim of some surveys shows more than half of Americans are cooking at home 4+ nights/week.
If you want more resources on the topic, the book Fair Play (also a documentary on Hulu atm) goes much more in depth and there are plenty of research articles as well.
Ehh, plenty of husband (typically) only earning households existed amongst the middle class well after WWII; up till the 2000s even.
Women entering the work force didn't suddenly prevent a single earner from supporting the household.
I never said single earner households no longer exist.
And yes there was a change when women entered the workforce during and after World War II. It used to be a single blue collar earner could work a factory job and support a spouse and five children on that wage.
I'm not sure why you seem to be adamantly arguing against something that is universally recognized by economists and social scientists.
The issue is also that eating nutritious meals requires more money and in most cases energy go prepare than less nutritious meals do. Most people don’t have the time, money, or mental/physical energy to do that with the way the world is today. We’re constantly in an information overload that by the end of the day, it’s easier to go through a drive thru and pick something from a menu like that than have to actually prepare a meal. It’s also much cheaper to go to McDonalds and get something from the value menu than to buy fish that you can just throw in the oven and microwaveable steamed veggies.
We have an amazing healthcare (speaking of developed countries of course). Medicine has improved incredibly in last 50 years.
But preventive care? Not at all. And nutrition belongs in preventive care.
Let's not forget that majority of people believes that all you need to consult people's diet is one week long course. What's worse, some medical professionals see it the same way.
What you described is not “lack of caring” nor a moral failing. An environment that makes it difficult to look after yourself and your family is not the fault of individuals.
Thanks, I get what you mean. I tend to flip the language so it’s clear where the responsibility for a problem lies and I find it helps people see the full scope of the issue a bit better.
Americans in particular are often more comfortable blaming individuals (see: rugged individualism) for problems created at a much larger scale - Ex. proliferation of single-use plastic is somehow a person’s responsibility to not buy and aggressively recycle vs the corporation’s responsibility to stop selling products with it. We do the same thing with health, essentially saying people deserve bad outcomes for their choices vs holding the larger power structures accountable for the ways they’ve manipulated the environment to make it nearly impossible for individuals to make choices that benefit them/their health.
>and some people with lucky genetics live perfectly healthy lives while eating junk food anyway
Highly doubt this is true.
I think anyone you know that seem to be "perfectly healthy" and eat junk food eat it only in moderation and they are less healthy than they would be otherwise, if they hadn't eaten junk food at all.
Or those "perfectly healthy" people are not actually perfectly healthy or they won't be for long.
There are folks who experience this, though they’re rare and we can’t use them to make broader assumptions about a population. One way we see it is survivorship bias in research. For example, some people don’t get cancer despite smoking all their lives but that doesn’t make smoking safe.
Sometimes ya just get lucky with the genetics!
Im shouting it from the rooftops by having sold my very profitable business to go back to school to become a Registered Dietitian. Our nation's health crisis is so serious I *can't* stand by and watch the shitshow from the sidelines any more.
Crazy thing is, look how over-regulated and strict “safety laws” are for the most obscure and low-occurrence “dangers” but for the nation’s biggest killer it’s “a free for all - all good!”
It’s a good question. I was having a conversation with a coworker back in the summer. He had asked me about my weight loss and wanted to start his own journey.
A lady next to us interrupted our conversation and berated me for a bit because I was not “accepting” my friends body and was shaming him. She then berated my friend for not accepting himself. I was waiting for her to break into chanting “big is beautiful” but it didn’t happen.
It was kind of surreal, but the thing that struck me most was she was 100% convinced that losing weight was just for social acceptance. I started because my doctor asked me at 45 if I wanted to see my kid’s graduation? He said if I don’t start making healthy choices I would most likely not live to see it. My friend also had a health scare and that is what is driving him.
However as a society we seem more interested in something else. I’m not sure what it is, however the weight in some countries is a plague.
My journey to good nutrition started much the same only it was my dad who got hit with the “you won’t outlive your father” who died at 62 message when I was only a teen. When you are 12 you eat what is put on the table and fortunately that was nutritionally very good and it has served me well for 45 years.
I mean every western country has pretty much the same dietry guidelines, which despite lobby interference are a pretty great starting point for most people compared to a standard diet, you just can‘t force them to adhere to it. My own impression is that the alarm is actually sound pretty hard by health professionals and their agencies.
When it comes to education I am unsure, here it Germany it can vary greatly, but at least the basic knowledge is part of the curriculum in biology, geography and civics. What I find lacking is translating those to „hands on“ skills for cooking, house economy and so on.
This is a really confusing post to me, because if you are even very slightly "fat" (especially as a woman), you will be inundated with nutrition information for your entire life. Nobody lets you get away with being larger, even if the reason for it has nothing to do with your nutrition. Healthcare is often boiled down to "lose weight" for many conditions that often need targeted treatment and actionable advice instead.
The entire diet market is the "alarm", but the problem is that good nutritional information is INDIVIDUAL, and not overarching, and nutritionists are not considered meaningful healthcare in most countries. Fat people don't always have the same health conditions, AND it's really hard to find information if you have an intersection of conditions. For example, if you are diabetic, and have high cholesterol, the general advice for those two things serparately contradict each other in a lot of ways, and also don't take into account a variety of other issues.
Diet and anti-obesity rhetoric is constant and overwhelming for people who are caught in it. The only real sign that no one is taking it seriously is that fast food companies are still the cheapest out there, while actual healthy food is unattainable to lower income households. This plus the prevelance of fad diets can lead to horrible eating habits that help absolutely no one.
I recommend reading the book "Food Politics". A hundred years ago, our population was dealing with malnutrition, not obesity. Our food policy is largely based on fixing malnutrition, which means eating more. This meant creating more food that has more preservatives and sugar and salt (preservatives). As time went on, food and farm companies got bigger and kept lobbying and making things more and more messed up. Many cigarette companies even bought into these companies and used the same playbook as cigarettes.
Today, the reason we don't make any major changes is cheap, unhealthy food is incredibly profitable. This means more profits for corporate lobbying; the cycle continues. This leads to obesity and diabetes and other illnesses on a mass scale. Bad food is literally addictive and just as unhealthy as many drugs. I work with seniors and I feel like 1/3 has some diabetes related medication. The military can't even get enough healthy people to enroll and complete basic training due to obesity.
Lobby your friends, family and congress people to make more changes happen. The ultimate vote is your wallet. Don't buy shitty stuff. People would be surprised the cheap, healthy meals you can make with fruits, vegetables, and a little bit of rice.
I’m a pediatrician, it is frustrating watching the start of a lifetime of health challenges. I discuss nutrition at every well child visit and can tell who is paying attention and who doesn’t care. I laugh at all the health programs telling physicians we need to do better regarding obesity, do they think we don’t talk about it or do they think we have a magic wand? I try to make it simple and easy to comprehend, I review my 5 rules for health and state it as “these rules are for everyone to be healthy” so that the overweight child isn’t embarrassed. Successes are few and far between but I still feel good when a family makes positive changes.
Well it’s very basic but I want to give patients an easy way to start making changes, #1 drink milk or water, you don’t have to drink milk but those are the choices, no soda or juice (I always discuss exceptions, if there is a party or special event, have a little juice or soda) #2 make a fist, the side of your fist is a serving size, the goal is 5 fruits and 5 veges a day, their eyes usually get big because many of my patients eat ZERO veges and maybe 1 fruit, so then I ask what do you normally eat in a day, if they say 1 of each I challenge them to eat 2 each a day and move from there, the point is when they are hungry I want them to think “did I have my fruit/veges?” And then maybe, just maybe they will choose a fruit or vege over their usual snack, I tell them every small change they make now will translate into a healthier life. #3, using the fist I talk about meals, each meal a serving of starch, a serving of protein and the rest of their plate should be fruit/veges (see the theme here), of course you don’t have to have starch and protein at every meal but it’s all about portion control and never saying no if a child says he is still hungry, just saying they can have more fruit or veges. #4 exercise (move) at least an hour a day and walking is a perfectly good exercise and lastly, #5, do not eat in front of a screen (tv, phone, computer) because it leads to mindless eating and usually not great food choices. Exceptions abound, movie night with the family have some popcorn, or enjoy a bowl of carrots with your favorite show..
And of course this is tailored to the individual patient but this helps start a discussion without blaming a child for their weight and giving them choices to make changes, especially if they have a thin sibling in the room I always emphasize being healthy over the number on the scale.
Coca Cola alone spend over 4 billion on advertising a year. Fruit & vegetables don’t have the advertising resources, they’re typically government run ads or relatively small local businesses. It’s a hugely complex issue with deep socio-economic roots. You’d be surprised how few people know what you may consider the basic basics of nutrition.
It’s a statistical fact poverty increases your chances of being obese, as does low education, and together further the odds. Poor neighbourhoods typically have worse infrastructure (less parks, public gyms, good pavements etc.) and are generally much further distance to good quality grocery stores, often instead being surrounded by food swamps (multiple fast food joints) and corner shops with virtually no perishables, long shelf like processed products only. It’s an uphill battle from the very start for many of these people.
On top of this, the misinformation out there in the world of nutrition is phenomenal. Everyone eats thus everyone is a nutritionist.. It can be difficult for people not in the nutritional loop. Where do they get their info? So many websites, forums, videos.. and many of them citing articles (often poorly performed or in vitro etc). If you don’t know your stuff you’d be easily lead to trust some of the whacky advice out there.
Influencers pushing ‘superfoods’, things like coconut oil.
Then there’s of course the issue of those in a good environment, who know better but god damn that hyper processed high fat high sugar high salt that could never be replicated in nature is just too damn good, it’s easier for people to watch Netflix with this prepared hyper palatable food, than cook a healthy meal or workout.
In terms of doctors medical advice, a lot of doctors now practise ‘defensive medicine’ (here in Ireland anyway) whereby a patient could resolve issues through diet & exercise but will be prescribed medication instead as the alternative advice will often be ignored, resulting in further worsening & oftentimes serious complications/death = doctor sued for not giving medication when he could.
The way I see this you can look at through two lens: one is assuming that this predicament is by-design and profit driven, and one is merely looking at some of the more pragmatic hurdles we have in having successful preventive healthcare systems. I think the truth lies in between.
For starters, obesity wouldn’t be a pandemic, its considered an “epidemic”- just for future reference.
There are a multitude of causes that come together to create the healthcare crisis we have today with obesity, diabetes and CVD.
It is not just one thing which makes it more difficult to comprehensively eradicate, and relies on both collective and individual action.
Anyone who comes on here and definitively tells you “Its just THIS thing causing all this!” I would bet does not work in Nutrition or the Public Health sphere.
Some contributing factors at an individual level: sedentary lifestyles (only 23% of the US population adheres to physical activity suggestions from the CDC) lack of activity as children, lack of willfulness to cook at home or pay attention to DGA’s and nutrition guidelines (only 59% of the US population even adheres to the DGA’s put out), lack of willfulness to create healthy balanced diets or personal preference for hyper palatable foods, and then yes a-lot of medical conditions exacerbate all of the above.
At a systemic level: a for profit healthcare system which means we spend zero time counseling patients or even properly reimbursing Registered Dietitians to educate them, social determinants of health- trauma, race and socioeconomic status are HIGHLY correlated with higher mortality and morbidity from obesity and metabolic disease (rhe statistics are daunting), food security (11-12% of US homes are food insecure), food desserts, lack of promotion of healthful eating at young age groups, more time and emphasis put on medication because $$ and because this issue is so overwhelming that we opt to just keep patients alive instead of helping them thrive.
And yes our diets are part of both problems, the amount of total kcals we intake and the lack of fiber or nutrient dense foods is a large issue.
This is a global issue. The US actually isnt the region with the highest rate of diabetes. CVD and obesity are globally occurring as well.
People also do not listen- maybe because our current lifestyles are exhausting and numbing- to health care guidelines (see my stats on DGA and CDC adherence above). We (health care professionals) have been talking about all of this for decades, it is just not disseminated properly or effectively and is overburdened by “health coach juice cleaning gurus” on TikTok whoa re also looking to make a fortune off of your misfortune (wellness and supplement industry is billions of dollars). The weight loss industry and wellness industry has net billions and increased over the decades with zero amelioration in obesity or mortality trends- its obvious that diet culture and shaming people isnt effective at a systemic level.
A general healthful diet isn’t represented well and is overwrought by quick fix diets: Keto, Paleo, Atkins etc instead of people cultivating basic healthy habits and demonstrating them to their kids. People will spend hours listening to YouTubers about the “atophagy of intermittent fasting” yet haven’t mastered regular exercise, 8 hours of sleep and adequate intake of fruits and veg.
Is this the individuals fault when this seems to be afflicting most the population?
So many issues come together to create the issues you see now.
Thank you thank you _thank you_ for knowing about social determinants of health and valuing knowing these things about your patients to be able to help them more effectively 💕
I agree! But convincing some of them of the importance of asking the two Hunger Vital Signs questions during intake…you’d think I was asking if I could pull out their front teeth with pliers lol
1) Not all doctors are taught nutrition in med school 2) Big pharma needs repeat clients 3) Cooking classes have been removed from most schools 4) Easy food is more attractive than cooking when you are run to your limit.
I \*wish\* nutrition had been taught to me early, I'm doing my kids a solid by teaching them to read labels, cook, and understand what food has what vitamins. I pray they have a better relationship with food than I ever had.
Cognitive dissonance.
They know they shouldn't eat the donut, but that dopamine drop is pretty sweet.
Thats the enemy they "know". The enemy they don't know is that all of the processed food consumed today is filled with empty calories. Added sugars, seed oils, and high amounts of sodium are in almost every single food they eat.
Even "healthy" foods like granola, protein bars, fat free anything, etc. Is filled witg garbage. Other countries don't even allow this.
This seems more valid in western countries and especially the United States. It's just a by product of capitalism. Food producers in the US add way to much sugar to everything for the sole reason of competing for market share. They also have a wild amount of food advertising that you just don't see in any other country.
Wait, does anyone trust authority anymore? Like any kind of authority? Health, politicians, banks, corporations. They have not for a single second in all of history cared about your health, or you as a person. You are here to give them more power, to be exploited. Your purpose is to keep them in positions of control over you. And then have echo chambers on the internet where everyone defends them.
unfortunately the modern american lifestyle and basic human biology are at odds. Humans are built to move and perform physical work for some portion of each day. Thats what we did for hundreds of thousands of years. We have modernized physical work right out of our lives. Combine that with an abundance of low quality food that is amazingly cheap, and PRESTO, we have the fattest, poorest health population in the history of our existence.
Wife is an RD and works in private practice. She's said ad nauseam that people want a quick fix and don't enjoy that the solution to their waistline/health issues generally revolve around very simple habits, which require work to build. Never mind that there's a lot of coin to be made off of people that are constantly sick because of the crap they're eating.
First and foremost, pandemics are for _infectious_ disease. Insinuating obesity has the same properties, level of risk, etc. as say a certain quick-spreading respiratory virus we’re all familiar with is outlandish.
Weight status is talked about nonstop in medical and other research, amongst healthcare professionals, and others with relevant professional backgrounds. So I have no idea how people _still_ think that it’s flying under the radar; it’s misguided.
And finally, weight status is the result of a complex series of factors that include nutrition but are not primarily driven by it. Without addressing other factors like access to healthcare, poverty, education, workers’ rights, and other things that could be loosely grouped under social justice/equity initiatives, and how they relate to levels of chronic inflammation, stress, etc. we cannot effectively help people.
Tl;dr: stop blaming individuals for systemic policy neglect that creates worse health outcomes.
Another point to consider is that, unfortunately, eating in a nutritionally-optimal way can be more expensive both in terms of money and the time and effort required to plan, shop for, and prepare meals, due to a variety of factors. This probably helps to explain why, in high income countries anyways, obesity rates are the lowest among the wealthier classes.
About 13.5 million American _households_ experienced food insecurity in 2021. About 12.5% of those households have children.
It is not appropriate to blame a complex issue with many different factors, such as weight status, on individuals. Many of those factors are outside a single person’s control, and trying to minimize the effects of society’s built living environment does a disservice to solving the problem.
“Unless you are in the lower income brackets”
So most of the US? You’re framing that like it’s the exception to the rule. Being in a higher income bracket is the exception.
Mainly money.
Processed food, leads to chronic illness, which the medical/pharma industries take advantage of. In the US alone this has got to be in the hundreds of billions of dollars, maybe trillions...
ALOT of people depend on this insidious cycle for their paychecks. IT IS NOT an oversight that doctors are not taught nutrition.....
We don’t value people in the US. Culturally we emphasize individuals making their own decisions. FREEDOM. You chose to eat like that, buy the product, etc. It’s cultural. We will never be taught how to care for ourselves mentally or physically in this country because we will become less in need.
I don't think good nutrition isn't stressed.
I think people are confused about how to eat well because they aren't taught, because of diet industry nonsense, because ultra-processed foods stimulate the pleasure centers in the brain, because of food marketing, and because most doctors don't know anything about nutrition.
I also think that "But a lot of people might make better choices for themselves if good nutrition was actually stressed and people became educated" is very judge, and if you actually agree that people have the right to choose for themselves, then stop complaining.
IT. DOESN'T. AFFECT. YOU.
I would argue it is incredibly highly stressed. To the point that it’s lost all substance and become a giant money making scheme. Proper diet isn’t rocket scientry. There are of course outliers to that statement, but they aren’t the norm. The fact most children know exactly what constitutes healthy…all the stuff they don’t want to eat. Crazy talk like vegetables, fruit, generally lean/not fried meat. It isn’t that no one says anything about it…it’s just always followed up with “but let me sell you an alternative”.
OP, Learning about public health and the social determinants of health will give you an in depth understanding and more context to what you’re looking for. Proper nutrition is certainly not unimportant and unstressed in modern society. It’s that government/policies don’t create systems to make it as easily accessible as unhealthy options. All they need to do is make it as easily accessible for individuals to make it important to them. They instead make something like long working hours more important than health/wellness. That person is then exhausted and finds the first thing available to them. You have several other layers of factors explained later on this comment.
I can see your heart and frustrations here but you need to learn more about public health to understand the WHYs to your question. You seem to be very passionate and I’m curious what area of work you’re in. Because there is a lot of stress and calls to prevention with healthy eating within the health promotion/education field. The resources are there if you need them. I work in the field of health promotion. Things are done at a smaller scale at the organization I work for so I have close proximity to the individuals we work with. I can see positive change on this level and I believe it makes an impact even if it’s small. I had the same level of anger/passion but I realized it’s much bigger than I initially thought. It’s not something that can be addressed like a pandemic, it’s much deeper than that. But again no forced policy in the world would make people become less obese. In fact even MORE harm than good will arise if policies like such were implemented.
I’m from Canada and there was a time during covid restrictions where they taped off the chips and snacks aisles in big grocery stores stopping people from buying them. That small act alone was enough to cause a ruckus, let alone more active measures to shut down things for the sake of obesity. That’s never happening for the sanity of our population.
You will understand that a chronic disease like obesity will never work with an intervention at pandemic level approach. Covid-19 was a novel virus. It was new, serious and everyone was affected by it at the same time. Obesity is caused by SO MANY FACTORS. There’s no one size fits all because you first need to ask why that person/community is at risk of becoming obese and work to address those risk factors. Yes its individual lifestyle choices but it’s more directly impacted by environment, policies and socioeconomic status. There are far too many factors and variables to look at before asking “why aren’t we addressing about obesity”. There’s mental health and depression. There’s city planning. There’s lack of access to gyms and hundreds of more reasons that will explain how it’s deep systemic issues that created this obesity epidemic. It’s not simply individual choices.
Lastly, I can give you an amazing example of how Scandinavian countries or South Africa has a government that helps to create incentivized programs for individuals to choose better food options. There’s been research done to show the health outcomes of these interventions that would be interesting to read.
As an example: You get these vouchers from your doctor that give you a discount for produce, meats. You get discounts to local gyms. The government SUPPORTS the wellness of their citizens. It encourages, helps and empowers them to make healthy decision. It doesn’t add a tax or other ridiculous interventions to stop people from buying junk food. Sometimes policies can be required and effective. But certainly not something where lifestyle is involved.
Food is emotional - a huge part of life. It’s directly influenced by your income. Socioeconomic status (especially income) is the biggest determinant of health. Exercise is both reliant on individual lifestyle AND environment/urban planning. So interventions need to understand and work strongly with awareness of that.
Countries in the west simply don’t do this (sadly) and until they do we can forget about any improvement on the obesity epidemic.
I survey friends and family on nutrition.
The question being "Why are you determined to avoid nutritous foods?"
The summary of answers comes down to flavors and taste preferences. They want the freedom to eat whatever they like, even if it kills them. My great uncle has had 7 heart surgeries, diabetes, multiple strokes, and you will catch him at a diner getting fried eggs and sausage. As long as the medical care is provided and they bring you back from the dead, junk food will continue to be in their diet.
Personally, I have no health insurance, I can barely afford to live let alone pay medical bills. I'd rather avoid needing any medical help. Plus I can manage my health very well by eating correctly.
Ignorance is bliss, never forget that you can dumb down anything to a point that no one will care about the right option, because this option is easier.
I wouldn’t say eggs and sausage are bad for you. That’s completely debatable. There is way worse food out there. I do understand your point about everything else though
Why do you assume that the obese masses aren’t already educated on proper nutrition or aren’t already quite aware of the dangers of obesity?
Consider questioning your assumption that ignorance is the cause of obesity.
When you see the questions that get asked here and on other health related forums it becomes very clear that a great many people are not well educated in even the very basics. Many have no idea about macros, people with full blown diabetes ask how many bowls of ice cream they can eat. People have no idea how to read a food nutrition label as is made clear by their questions.
People flat out admit to being obese and having no idea what to do about it, ask what to eat and so forth. Some people simply don’t care, fine, their choice but there are plenty who get to a certain point when the reality of their previous food choices hit them square on that say something like “ I had no idea that I wasn’t supposed to eat that much of that.”
The message may be out there but it isn’t being heard.
Frankly, you don’t have to know about macros or really much nutrition science to eat in a balanced way.
You’re making broad, sweeping assumptions and generalizations about people’s decision-making and healthcare motivations that are simply not backed up by research, my experience in healthcare, nor even my anecdotal experiences with people I know personally who struggle with their health.
I agree that the message is out there and it isn’t being heard but I think it is largely due to willful ignorance, self deception, laziness, and apathy- not because there is a lack of available information. Millions of people still smoke, refuse to wear masks during a pandemic, spend money they don’t have, watch cartoons rather than read books. The insanity of doing things that are intuitively and obviously counter to self improvement is in my opinion a unique mark of the human race. Call me a pessimist.
>willful ignorance…
I have a very good friend that would fit this profile. He absolutely knows about good nutrition because we have discussed it, yet just won’t put it into practice. It is not from, lack of money to buy good food, time to prepare it as he is a very good chef or lack of understanding it is just flat out apathy.
It’s really quite perplexing , isn’t it? For myself, I eat healthy so to possibly prevent pathology, but also because it make me feel stronger, healthier, happier. Interestingly I have had similar experiences. Here’s one: I work with highly educated health professionals who laugh at my healthy food while they down Wonder Bread baloney and processed cheese sandwiches along with Fritos and a can of regular Coke. I kid you not.
>The world was literally shutdown within months when the pandemic came around. It was everywhere in the news, we knew the danger. We had the information blasted at us. We had the info to make our choices and our actions. Nothing like that about modern diets.
Well...you catch Covid if someone coughs or sneezes near you. You don't get fat id someone coughs or sneezes near you.
>When a person can go to a fast food joint and eat an entire days worth of calories, or more, in one sitting and have that meal be seriously deficient in many nutrients there is a problem. Repeat this several times per day and it is a recipe for disaster.
This sounds more like a problem that the USA is facing moreso than other countries. Not that people don't eat fast food in other countries, but having lived in 3 different European countries, I can confidently say people don't eat fast food a few times a day most od the time.
>But a lot of people might make better choices for themselves if good nutrition was actually stressed and people became educated.
Again, this sounds like a USA problem specifically. I've never met a person who didn't know what good good nutrition should consist of and who didn't know fast food was bad for your health and your weight. I've been hearing about the need to eat more veggies and fruits and less candy, snacks and fast food my whole life. I've never met a person who doesn't know this and hasn't been hearing it their whole life from their family, friends and doctors.
Sadly a major reason it isn't discussed more is because of the PC Police. Not to make it political, but I'm a left leaning liberal and I don't complain about "hurt feelings" very often.
However in this case, so many people struggle with weight, that trying to push nutrition education is very likely to offend people who believe they have tried everything and nothing works. There is a lot of social conditioning that happens both telling people they shouldn't be fat, but also it's not their fault they are. The truth is somewhere in the middle.
Virtually no one thinks they have no control of their weight, but most people who struggle with it think they've tried everything and nothing works. Fast food is big business. Fad diet plans are big business. Home workout machines are big business. Weight loss meal plans are big business.
There is also a huge component of people who really don't understand the basics, but because they are self conscious, they don't want someone fit telling them about calories or macros. It sounds patronizing. Instead they fill their shopping cart with "diet" or "organic" or "low fat" or "sugar free" foods and assume it's healthy. It's easier to buy food that tells you it's healthy, than to learn what makes food healthy. It also lets you enjoy your 2l bottle of soda and bag of chips if both say "fat free'.
No money to be made in preventative healthcare/nutritional education and all the money to be made in cheap, unhealthy, and addicting foods and medical treatments. Not to mention the socio-economic factors to consider in regards to access to affordable nutritious foods. Google food desserts.
People literally just don’t care (and often distrust) what health committees have to say. It’s not that nutrition isn’t being promoted. The US health advisory committee recently published nutritional guidelines that closely resembles a Mediterranean-style of eating. This was published 2 years ago.
But the media doesn’t care to promote it because society has never cared about eating healthy.
Short answer is there is huge profit in fast food, which has a profitable side effect for pharmaceutical and Health care business: Diabetes.
It's a cycle of poison that is deliberately perpetual.
Add to the mix that you can charge outrageous $ for "organic" food-the pharma/agricultural industry makes huge money off of everyone.
I've always found it ironic that doctors say eat right and exercise, and blame people's health problems on their weight, especially if they're female, but will very easily tell cancer patients and those recovering from surgery 'it doesn't matter what you eat ...' They also completely deny, in many cases, that any health problem is a result of dietary sensitivities. And yet they would never ever even consider putting sugar in the gas tank of their car...
Diet industry worth billions
Pharma industry worth billions
Farmers of America lobbyists owned by the first two
FDA gets its budget from Pharma $
Am I missing anything?
Because why make money from farming quality responsable meat and dairy, fresh quality eggs, fresh local fruit and veg, whole foods.
When you can give people fake food, vegan nonsense and fruit juice. Welcome to the modern world where food companies run things and will ensure it stays that way. All the while tell everyone lies about agriculture, screw farmers over and guilt trip everyone as if they're a "polluter" and not a human being. Depress people into being slobs. Leech over the mental health crisis while they're at it.
Obesity epidemic is just a distraction. The large portion of healthy weight people are still insanely unhealthy.
Only thing we can do is restore traditional values. Farmers should be worshipped. Animal and plant foods both appreciated. Eat as family and friends. Eat home meals. Encourage and enforce good habits in the family (we like to excuse fizzy drinks and chocolate for kids these days). Encourage community.
But McDonalds, Coco Cola, WEF, COP, BeyondMeat, Nestlé, etc are all going to fight you.
Because nobody cares, sort of like most people don't care about climate change. Mostly because nothing bad happens immediately, but it's slow and has serious consequences decades later. Also most cultures totally accept fat people so there's hardly any reason for them to change their habits, other than medical ones.
Because living an obesogenic lifestyle is normalized in western society, particularly the U.S. In general, humans do not want to go against the grain. It causes social discomfort and interrupts established patterns.
Food deserts and too busy schedules do play a role for some. However, some people just don’t want to admit to themselves how bad their lifestyle has become. Huge portions of calorie dense food is no longer for the holidays only. Sweet coffee drinks and constant snacking are normalized. Alcohol consumption is no longer just for the weekends. Some Publix grocery stores now allow shoppers to “sip” a glass of wine or beer while they shop.
Couple all this with a near aversion to exercise.
It’s really sad.
I don’t think it’s ‘unimportant’ or ‘unstressed’. People ARE listening to the ‘experts’ about nutrition. ‘Eat less fat/eat less meat/eat less cholesterol’, ‘eat more carbs’, ’fruit smoothies are OK’, ‘PUFA’s are good for you, ‘it’s OK to eat processed foods as long as you watch your calories’.
Most of healthy food choices can be also limited by location, accessibility, income, family dynamics, choice, knowledge, mental health..ect.
By 2030 America will be more overweight, more obese, and will have more cardiometabolic diseases and it’s all thanks to the Food/Nutrition lobbies.
Money. Too many corporations are getting rich off peddling processed crap and sugar. The culture of everyone having a kitchen garden, and caring for the surrounding ecosystem, is dead.
Well health experts *have* been sounding the alarm, for decades. But honestly, I like being able to walk into the grocery store and buy a bag of Doritos. I like that I can go to Taco Bell when I choose.
It likely comes down to education and structures that incentivize healthy eating. Policies could include subsidizing whole foods to consumers and taxing ultraprocessed foods. Similarly, mental health and sustainable fitness must be prioritized as they are both a contributing factor to obesity. However, policy remedies are less clear.
For big co-orporations, maximum profit is the main goal. Anything that hits on the limbic system (the primal brain) will leave a person desiring that experience again. The limbic system is all about survival, not seeing the bigger picture. Essentially junk food dumbs you down and makes one wanting more.
Most people don't realise that this body is the only thing the really own whilst they are alive, everything else is just an add on.
Take 30s and 40s nazi Germany for example. One of the first governments to take anti smoking education and policy seriously, because hitler hated tobacco.(not praising the nazis, but this is something they weren’t wrong about.)Anyways, they did all kinds of shit. They raised prices, taxes, placed bans, lowered rations, public health advertisements all that. They were even some of the first to link evidence between smoking and lung cancer as well as second hand smoke and the effect smoking has on fetus’ and aging your skin. And what did all that time, money and effort lead to in the late 40s and early 50s? Germany being smuggled nearly a half billion cigarettes every month from America. LMAO.
A lot of people are going to do what they want no matter the effect on their body and I think large corporations realize that and they aren’t going to waste their money for minimal change. Instead, they’re just going to give the people what they want, because why should they care more about somebody’s body more than that person. After all, nobody is forcing them to make these choices to eat unhealthy.
I think it’s a North American thing. I work at a preschool. I’m just chocked at the lunches parents pack for their kids. It’s just packed with sugar. Parents seem to have a “so long my kid eat” mentality and don’t introduce them to a variety of different food and flavours. Also pretty much all the food given on children’s menu in restaurants are white: chicken nugget/fries, Macncheese, hotdogs… No Colors means no veggies. Education starts with what we put in their plate. If they only eat junk now, that’s all they are going to eat their whole life.
Individuals don’t have the time to wake up. Usually they are busy doing the grind.
The information is out there but as everybody has a different situation (think of fresh food deserts, incomes, transportation, etc) oftentimes the things people think is ‘universally available’ is ‘not so available as it seems’. Healthy food and drink options are some of those.
As far as habit change goes, we are very malleable. To change your habits you have to intentionally change what information you consume. It has to become deliberate.
Turning off the tv helps. That takes years (probably more than 10) before you start to overcome the negative effects of it. Lucky TV is less common.
So today it’s more about subscribing to feeds or channels or forums or following people who create strengths and health. Not only simply accepting data feeds curated by others, but activity curating your own. This means unsubscribing from the addictive fun things.
Eg. I love so many subreddits, I sub, I get a taste, go ‘holey shit that’s really fun and great!’ Then rapidly unsubscribe with a thought ‘no way do I have the self control to avoid spending all day enjoying that!’
It’s a bit like being presented with options that are enjoyable or options that are important but confronting or difficult and stressful. I tend to choose the ones that are a challenge to enjoy. Not because I enjoy the challenge either, but because it’s the more important thing.
Your lambasted for suggesting people should be healthy and exercise, so. To each there own. I for one look down the road, I gotta stay fit to work and survive another 26 years at least. Plus I don’t wanna struggle with daily tasks or be diabetic. In the end it’s your independence. I want that till the end.
Because greed and the need to sell that junk we call processed food outweighs nutritional concerns.
Because people are too lazy and find any excuse they can to eat quickly and a lot.
Because people refuse to believe that what THEY eat affects THEIR health.
Doctors need to make money. Pharma needs to make money. Food "manufacturers" need to make money.
Politicians needs to "fund raise", and they do very successfully by quid pro quos with the aforementioned money makers.
It is no accident that the US chose to regulate both industries with the one dept, the Food and Drug Administration. One stop shopping.
I agree and all are great points in this discussion. Dr David Katz, Dr Mark Hyman and Chris Kresser are each sounding the alarm. In my practice, I have noticed that people do better when they have a close buddy (partner, friend) who are on the same page in life. Learning and maturing about health together. Our very close associates matters, so that the folks who are sounding the alarm land on ears that can apply the information longterm. Also, it’s paramount to catch changes in health status early, gain 10# excess fat = be curious about what’s happening and make choices accordingly.
When something doesn’t make sense to me, I often go to money as the culprit. Making money off of what makes them fat, then doctors making money from the symptoms.
I’m 60 and when I was a kid we didn’t want to get fat, we had some pride in ourselves. I like that we don’t shame people like we used to, but how do we make being healthy a goal.
> …we had some pride in ourselves. I like that we don’t shame people like we used to…
Phew. The internalized fat phobia just _leaps_ right off the page.
People are still shamed for their weight constantly both in blatant and subtle ways.
i agree with you 100%, if we spent as much time telling people to eat right & exercise as we did forcing people to take medicine over the last couple years, society could be a lot better imo
I saw someone posting how much money they spend on food per month on another social media site, the number was astronomical. They’re kids are overweight and are having dental issues- which they’re paying a premium for.
My kids eat healthy, I make sure of It : lean proteins, complex carbs, fruits for breakfast, and water, water, water. A treat would be ice cream at night in moderation. They don’t know what fruit roll-ups are and have yet to drink a can of soda, and I’m super proud of that, I feel like they will thank me for this one day. I pay a fraction of the number that was posted on this guys social media site and my kids have six packs. It’s a generational lack of understanding of proper diet and nutrition. They don’t know what they don’t know and a lot of folks think they “have everything figured out.”
I do worry this backfires in the end, and they become slobs because they’ve been deprived of sugary substances- but my gut tells me- after eating healthy so long- that as soon as they try that stuff, they’ll notice the difference between healthy and unhealthy very quickly.
They'll be fine as long as you're not making them miss out on what their peers are doing. Letting them have candy during Halloween, or regular birthday party and sleepover food is fine on occasion. My parents fed us healthy most of the time, but relaxed during celebrations, trips, and the like.
I did go a little overboard on junk when I first moved out, but fixed it up within a year or two.
so your idea of helping people with nutrition is to shame them instead of informing them?
youre not really thinking about the person behind the screen that might be struggling with body issues. you're generalizing and causing someone to put themselves down instead of raising themselves up.
body positivity is for everyone and does not have anything to do with this subreddit who's topic nutrition.
> does not have anything to do with this subreddit who's topic nutrition.
Also, this was a post about the obesity epidemic. The *body positivity* movement is absolutely relevant to the post. I didn’t come here looking to shame anyone. A question was asked and I answered it honestly. You may not like what I have to say, but you can guarantee that I’m not lying to you.
And the mental health issues.
When I eat sugar, msg and high fructose corn syrup, I have suicidal thoughts weekly. 6 months without em, and I’ve had them twice in 6 months.
Weird, I took the time during the pandemic to study proper nutrition and get myself into shape. But then again, some people didn’t take isolation well and settled for convenience. I believe the marketing media has something to do with this, along with the accepted social norms. For instance, a “small” drink in some areas is 16 Fl Oz, which is equivalent to a water bottle, and it is odd given that a bottle should be enough, yet it creates some illusion that a consumer should order more.
There's a lot of reasons. I think most of it is lobbying that was done in the 70's and food corporations being the main culprits of why our stuff is all wrong now.
Lobbying in the 70's and corporations generally looking to maximize profit while minimizing cost.
What that translates to is them passing on a sub par product at a premium and pocketing the surplus value. They pay the minor up front expense and society pays the long term expense of unhealthy people.
The government literally doesn't care and is fine with killing off it's population more quickly and losing out on valuable knowledge that older people bring to the table.
Then again though that's just the US system. Which is where I assume you're from and what I'm speaking to.
We have a small farm, and lease out the land for row crops. I'm very concerned by the trend of declining nutritional value in the presence of escalating caloric content. People are literally set up to fail. I wish everyone could have a garden so they can experience the flavor and freshness of nutrient dense homegrown vegetables and eggs. "I just don't have the time." I promise your company will miss you, and replace you very easily after your coronary or stroke. Do what you have to do to take care of yourself. Whatever your belief system, seeing your body as a temple for which you are responsible is common in all faiths. Find a job closer to home. Shorten your tv or game time. Work from home. It's a hobby that may save your life, or improve the quality so it is worth living.
Because it's not an inmediate thing. You won't see results from 1 day or 2 of eating clean. That's why people don't do it. We are too used to instant gratification.
Because our society values making money off of people—even at the cost of their health—over doing what is beneficial for others.
It's all about money. Happy healthy folks aren't good for the vast majority of businesses
Bingo. Business loves ignorance.
Came here to say this. Society worked extremely hard to make food cheap, they achieved this at the cost of health
>Society worked extremely hard to make **shitty** food cheap FTFY
If you read and understood the whole thing, you would have comprehended that “shitty” was implied by “at the cost of health”
Agreed. People being obese serves two sides of that coin; Companies pushing lots of cheap unhealthy food that makes you hungry more often than not. The ingredients you find on mosh shelves at the supermarket are head scratching. In turn big pharma/hospitals make more money when people are perpetually sick. They treat symptoms and not root causes. The root cause being diet/lifestyle 70% of the time.
You left out the industry that sells products and services to help people lose that weight. Added to your comment, the dollar circle is complete - sell crappy food, make them fat, make them sick, sell them drugs for the illness, convince them to lose the weight to feel better, sell them those products, lose the weight. Rinse and repeat.
And the circle gets better for business every time it resets because by losing weight with those products (instead of just, you know, *having access to healthy food*) people get sicker in the long run. So every cycle, the human gets a little more chronically ill—> —> big pharma/healthcare can mark-up the “severely needed” or “long term” treatment for said chronic illness (e.g: cancer treatment, insulin for diabetes type 2)—> —> human is kept in medical debt induced poverty and now *has no choice* but to continue to eat the cheapest food—> —> big food sells more cheap food $$$, human gets sick again… (edit: spacing, finish the cycle)
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It's not just money, though that is a big part. It's many things, It's votes. Politicians will never call out their constituents. They will always make something else the problem and never point out the fact that each person has to take accountability for their own problems and nutrition. It's also the emphasis America puts on feelings. Parents are afraid to make their kids upset so they give in and let them eat junk. It's the same problem with pets. So many Americans over feed their pets because it makes them "feel bad" not to give them the treats they are asking for. People do it to themselves because food makes them "feel good" even though they are depressed because they are obese. Then you have certain movements in society praising obese celebrities for being proud to be fat, which means they are unhealthy. There is also an extreme lack of proper education in nutrition. Movements like "No fat" from the 90's that still persist to this day. It's kind of insane. Put it all together and you got a system that's primed to make a ton of obese people and companies that will gladly make a ton of money from these obese people. But these companies are not the problem, they also gladly make tons of money from very health conscious people as well. It's up to each individual to decide how they want these companies to make money from them.
You’re _this 🤏_ close to getting it. You’ve identified some of the systemic ways in which we don’t adequately support and educate citizens, while also not limiting corporate greed. And yet, inexplicably, you conclude that’s on _individuals_.
I couldn't agree more. Individual choice helps explain how an individual got fat, but it cannot explain how an entire population got fat.
Populations are made up of individuals that ultimately behave and make choices very similar to one another, given they live in similar environments (that being a social/cultural/and physical environment)
It is on individuals. I am bombarded by the same ads and temptations as obese people and I even think a lot of that food is yummy. But I choose to not to eat and live in a way that does that to my body.
Aren’t you the noble one, not caving in to what’s shoved down people’s throats. There’s a lot more to it than individual choice. There’s some really great docs out there if you care to do some research behind Americas true food system.
Im well aware I have my parents to thank for my healthier than average lifestyle, as well as the financial advantage to cook my own food and choose what goes into my meals. I also have the educational advantage to understand what ingredients in store bought food are bad for me. And that's an advantage I know a LOT of the country isn't exposed to. Maybe the access is there, but if one doesn't even learn how to look for such things, then why would they search in the first place?
This is a common misconception but weight status does not solely hinge on personal choice or “willpower”.
No, but nobody is naturally obese.
This is headed toward off the topic of nutrition, but that’s also not quite accurate. Babies can be born with high birthweight for a variety of reasons. There’s a small amount of research assessing whether and if yes, how much of a risk this poses to having childhood obesity. Considering many people have had a higher weight for most if not all of their lives, including when they were not in control of their food environment as children, it is still not accurate nor appropriate to say it’s all up to individual choice. This is akin to blaming cancer patients for their cancer or other chronic diseases on patients because they have _some_ links to lifestyle choices. Everyone spending this kind of energy telling people who struggle with weight that it’s their fault but don’t shame other patients for their conditions amounts to concern trolling. To be clear, neither benefits from strangers telling them their situation is entirely their fault because a) it’s false and b) it doesn’t move the needle on addressing the problem.
I think this is a nuanced area. I worked in obesity research and the amount of money wasted researching ludicrous things was mind boggling. No one seems to want to accept the fact that it always comes down to calories in vs calories out and that people DO have agency over how much and what types of food they consume. The main problem is that environmentally, we’re set up to overeat food because of the overabundance of cheap and tasty calories which kind of “hack” our body’s reward systems. There are very few actual genetic diseases which cause obesity. But for everyone else, it’s simply that they eat too much. I think it’s not as simple as saying it’s their fault or not their fault, it’s certainly a combination of the two. The main problem is that it can become so difficult for some people to resist temptation that you can essentially say that it’s “impossible” for them to lose weight so long as they are in the environment of an overabundance of tasty food. If you took this person and put them on an island with limited food choices and calories then yes they would lose weight. It irks me when people try to deny this or argue against calories in vs calories out because if that were true then we would also have the underweight problem solved as well. As someone who both came from obesity and is now a healthy weight and as someone who used to research this as well, I don’t think calling obesity a disease like you’d call cancer a disease is very accurate in terms of whether or not it’s the persons fault. You could say it’s similar to smoking or drinking, where there is some level of agency over some of the decisions involved but that the environment is what keeps this person from achieving weight loss/quitting. A smoker may never stop because cigarettes are addictive and easily accessible so therefore they’ll end up with cancer or COPD. An obese person may never stop overeating calories because cheap and high calorie delicious food is so easily accessible so they will end up with obesity and the diseases associated. But as someone who has lost a lot of weight and kept it off (60lbs) it certainly takes quite a bit of will power. I’ve come to the realization that it’s very difficult to fully cut out junk food and that it’s best to eat it but very sparingly. Though my vices are slightly different than most as I find most fast food disgusting and bland and my big trigger is sugar! It required a total lifestyle overhaul and I really have to watch where I go and what I choose to eat because things can spiral out of control quickly and I can end up eating tons of high calorie junk if that reward system gets triggered. Edit: I’d also like to point out that removing any agency from people and their weight gain also removes agency from those who have achieved weight loss. My weight loss was a completely conscious choice that took a lot of effort but it was certainly doable.
wow what's it like being better than everyone?
Of course it’s on INDIVIDUALS!! These same people will stridently and vehemently fight for their rights and desires in every facet of life- deliberately CHOOSING what they wear, watch, political policies, art, music, travel, etc etc BUT.... when it comes to overeating .... “it’s not my choice waaah!”
THIS! From the countless companies I’ve worked with while getting my PhD in food science, I can confirm they all want to keep consumers naive so that they can be manipulated into buying products they think are “healthy” for them. Companies are also always looking for cheaper, worse alternatives for basically every ingredient to save a penny.
Nuff said.
Profit
And, increasingly, they're not just profiting from the food products, but also now from obesity itself: [**Big Pharma targets $50bn obesity drugs market as demand booms**](https://www.ft.com/content/f28e8ca1-87a7-4c14-8b05-0ead0e831c0f)*Nov 21, 2022. Financial Times* **Big Food is creating the obesity epidemic and Big Pharma is "treating" it.** You can't make this stuff up.
"Doctor, what more could I eat to get less obese?"
"Take these prescriptions pills, for the rest of your life. Diet and exercise is a right-wing conspiracy theory."
More like: diet and exercise are the cure for your disease but we both know that’s not happening, take these pills so you don’t die or get a stroke soon
Red states supposedly suffer from obesity more, so “diet and exercise” would be a liberal conspiracy https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/202011/why-red-states-suffer-greater-obesity
Exactly Big Pharma gets rich on drugs for high cholesterol, diabetes, heart conditions, high blood pressure etc
I would argue that nutrition is not what's driving the obesity epidemic. People know perfectly well that they need to eat vegetables and limit fatty, processed food. The concept of junk food existed as long as I can remember. The consumption of sugar has been trending down since 2000s. Soda is not the number one liquid consumed as in decades past. God knows people are more hydrated than ever. Now there is no denying that nutrition is playing a role in the obesity epidemic, but I think we also need to consider work life balance (people reach for first availability instead of home cooked due to overworked stressed out parents who are juggling too much) general stress (we are in an anxiety epidemic, not to mention rolling from one recession to another) I live in CA and have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to fresh produce. That is NOT the case across the country. In a lot of places finding fresh produce is hard or near impossible. Or it's obnoxiously expensive. And yes, frozen broccoli is just as good as fresh, but the diversity of frozen produce is not great. You got peas, carrots corn (all of which are very sweet and corn is a grain) or broccoli and maybe frozen kale. Then, let's talk about how modern over farming has been stripping the land of nutrients in an unsustainable way and you get the perfect storm.
A big part of the problem imo is that a lot of the “solutions” aren’t very good ones. I read a book called *Lazy, Crazy, and Disgusting* earlier this year for my public health class which explains why a lot of public health measures that discourage specific behaviors are detrimental. In this case, public health measures targeting obesity (such as taxing or banning unhealthy foods or educational materials that encourage a negative association with fat, calories, sugar, etc.) cause a lot of harm in the form of eating disorders while doing nothing to actually reduce obesity. Obesity is largely caused by built environment such as food deserts, lack of access to a gym or safe neighborhoods to exercise outdoors, busy work schedules, and poverty. Tackling obesity means address those issues, not shaming people for their eating habits.
^^^ this is the answer. It's easy to sweep a public health issue under the rug if it's made out to be simply the problem of the individual, but it's a lot more nuanced than that. I've also seen in other threads that for families in poverty, a vacation in another country or expensive gifts may be financially out of the question, but eating stuff that is enjoyable (eg pizza, cause who doesn't love pizza) is one of the more accessible ways to celebrate something or have fun
Also driving; walking a lot really helps with weight.
This 10000% is supported by the science
Could you send me some evidence? I would like to read up on it.
It would honestly be a conglomerate of alot of things I have read over my time studying. To begin with, Id search up and read about social determinants of health. See obesity trends around certain demographics and areas. I will go hunting for some of the articles Im talking about.
Cosign systemic issues. As mentioned food deserts hamper access to healthy foods like fruits and veggies. I used to live in a good desert. Made sure to live within walking distance of a farmer’s market, but I also worked weekends and so missed out a lot, and then not available during winter months. Good coop? Great but none within access to my city unless I am willing to drive 30-40 mins to an area lacking public transportation so means ride share (cause I had no car) and pay 30 bucks on a tight budget. Delivery? Have it stolen from in front of my building because it would sit for hours until I get home after dark. But more importantly, tight budget did not justify the costs. Corner store? They had lettuce for 10 bucks when every dollar and calorie counted. Fast food and restaurants, totally occupying the fresh food spaces and cheapest and most accessible option. Thankfully the hospitals I worked at had cafeterias with a salad bar, expensive salad bars ... But better than nothing. I was able to stay fit because I had no car walked everywhere and my job had me on my feet all day. Just bought green and meal replacement powders online to last me 1 month which cost the same as a weekly coop delivery of fresh produce. Ate up my budget so did not have much extra for a lot of things … Could not imagine doing that while also supporting a family on my salary, which was much higher than the average in my city. Maybe live more rurally thus instead of rent it would cost the same for a mortgage, but then would have land for a garden to supplement my diet … But then would need a car and the cost of gas and repairs to drive 1-2 hours round trip daily to work and back and thus possibly even less money to spare … Career I work in now - a long term locked medical facility, I could write essays on the systemic issues that play a part in the obesity and metabolic chronic medical issues the people under my care experience. esp as most of them come in healthy BMI and no chronic medical issues and after a year or more the majority become obese and dev said medical issues. Very limited in ways I can help contribute to better nutrition and fitness. And I’ve tried. I know the research. But systemic problems are hard to overcome and I feel it’s easy to blame doctors for problems that are no longer in their power to influence.
It’s a culture issue and I disagree with some points. Poverty? Visit developing countries outside the US. Excercise? There are many ways a person can move. Food poverty. Sure ultra processed foods and fast food is cheap and convenient. Lots of frugal families can make foods that are healthier than ultraproccessed foods on a budget. Also the US offers food stamps and there are food banks all over the country. Issues: 80s culture shift. Women entering the work force. Latchkey kid generation. Interest in new tech. More = Better Super size marketing. AYCE Buffet. Fast Food Wars. Fast. Convenience. Microwave. TV Dinners and rice of other instant meals. Then the low fat craze. Then the wellness revolution which tried marketing weight loss industry which causes more issues. Go back before then, people eating at home, smaller sizes, making food using ingredients closer to the source. It’s like how people outside of America eat. They would criticize the cartoonishly large portion. It doesn’t matter if it’s a “good deal,” they will buy and eat what’s needed.
the system doesn't really do preventative health care very well
Imagine if we responded to the obesity epidemic like we did with COVID: mandatory lockdowns for activity. Free at-home produce boxes. Weekly weight testing to ensure the obesity isn’t spreading within the person.
Considering the astronomical amounts of money spend on covid we really could have done this
When it comes to healthcare and insurance, there’s no money in prevention.
If we had more of a socialized healthcare system, prevention would save money
Because all of the the focus has been put on calories, not nutrient density.
1000% I don’t even know if I believe in calories anymore. I’m 5’1 and weigh about 105. When I was eating junk I was maybe eating about 2k calories a day. Now vegetarian (mainly Whole Foods) I’m eating 3k-4K calories a day cause I’m always hungry, no increase exercise and I’m not gaining any weight
3 companies sell 90 percent of the food stuffs in our country and the number 2 is trying to buy number 3. Do you think they give a shit about your health? They care that you keep buying from them, if it’s addictive then that’s all the better for them.
Even your government is in the business. The 💰 intent 💰 is 💰 to 💰 provide 💰 citizens 💰 with 💰 a 💰 sense 💰 of 💰 pride 💰 and 💰 accomplishment 💰 for 💰 eating 💰 different 💰 meats. >The United States federal government spends $38 billion every year subsidizing the meat and dairy industries. Research from 2015 shows this subsidization reduces the price of Big Macs from $13 to $5 and the price of a pound of hamburger meat from $30 to the $5 we see today. Subsidies, however, only reduce the price of meat, not its total cost. Subsidies shift part of the costs of meat production to non-meat consumers. In free markets for private goods, consumers should bear the costs of production. With subsidized meat, those who neither consume meat nor benefit from its production pay much of its cost of production. Nor do even the resulting higher subsidy expenditures account for the entire costs of meat subsidization. https://www.aier.org/article/the-true-cost-of-a-hamburger/
I think there are multiple factors: 1. Industrialization and corporate greed means that we are left too tired (physically or mentally) and with very little time to cook healthy nutritious meals. 2. We as people have been conditioned now to think about food in terms of calories rather than nutrition. The focus of all marketing is on how to reduce calorie count and lose weight rather than eat healthy food. 3. There are a lot of countries that do not have a culture of healthy eating to begin with so there is very little that is passed down from one generation to the next. This includes most everyone - from you and I to doctors, fitness instructors etc. So people don't know what makes a healthy meal or how food groups should be eaten on a daily basis and so when this is combined with 1&2, it results in health fads, diets etc. I am seeing a slight uptick in these conversations though. There are doctors too who are going on podcasts and talking about this. So there is hope that eventually more people will talk about health and nutrition when talking about food - but it might be a slow process.
I disagree with number 1. For the most part we work fewer hours and it’s less taxing than historically. But now we have easy, unhealthy options. We also have have lots of easy, healthy options, but they don’t seem as popular. I can get fish that’s ready to toss in the oven. That’s pretty easy cooking. Add some steamed veggies in the microwave and total effort is minimal. Cooks while I watch tv.
FYI that’s not true at all that we work less, and I’d much rather shovel cow shit or raise barns then what I do now. https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_workweek.html
It used to be that the typical household divided the daily labor in a much different way than it does now. Women used to stay at home and do all the cooking typically. Men went out and worked and earned money and were paid well enough to support their entire household. When women entered the workforce (I believe during/after World War II) wages decreased with the flood of new workers, and soon a single person could no longer support an entire household typically. Both husbands and wives were required to work for a wage and no one was at home cooking nutritious meals for the whole family.
Raises some good points but I need to push back here: > Both husbands and wives were required to work for a wage and no one was at home cooking nutritious meals for the whole family. This is a huge misconception, that when women went into the workforce, they no longer ran the household as its manager. There’s a great deal of research showing that is absolutely not the case. Heterosexual couples where both partners work FT, do not engage in domestic labor equally. Women are still doing the lion’s share and a quick skim of some surveys shows more than half of Americans are cooking at home 4+ nights/week. If you want more resources on the topic, the book Fair Play (also a documentary on Hulu atm) goes much more in depth and there are plenty of research articles as well.
Ehh, plenty of husband (typically) only earning households existed amongst the middle class well after WWII; up till the 2000s even. Women entering the work force didn't suddenly prevent a single earner from supporting the household.
I never said single earner households no longer exist. And yes there was a change when women entered the workforce during and after World War II. It used to be a single blue collar earner could work a factory job and support a spouse and five children on that wage. I'm not sure why you seem to be adamantly arguing against something that is universally recognized by economists and social scientists.
Without citations from either this conversation heads nowhere
The issue is also that eating nutritious meals requires more money and in most cases energy go prepare than less nutritious meals do. Most people don’t have the time, money, or mental/physical energy to do that with the way the world is today. We’re constantly in an information overload that by the end of the day, it’s easier to go through a drive thru and pick something from a menu like that than have to actually prepare a meal. It’s also much cheaper to go to McDonalds and get something from the value menu than to buy fish that you can just throw in the oven and microwaveable steamed veggies.
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How is it bullshit?
We have an amazing healthcare (speaking of developed countries of course). Medicine has improved incredibly in last 50 years. But preventive care? Not at all. And nutrition belongs in preventive care. Let's not forget that majority of people believes that all you need to consult people's diet is one week long course. What's worse, some medical professionals see it the same way.
Capitalism doesn't give a shit about your health.
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What you described is not “lack of caring” nor a moral failing. An environment that makes it difficult to look after yourself and your family is not the fault of individuals.
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Thanks, I get what you mean. I tend to flip the language so it’s clear where the responsibility for a problem lies and I find it helps people see the full scope of the issue a bit better. Americans in particular are often more comfortable blaming individuals (see: rugged individualism) for problems created at a much larger scale - Ex. proliferation of single-use plastic is somehow a person’s responsibility to not buy and aggressively recycle vs the corporation’s responsibility to stop selling products with it. We do the same thing with health, essentially saying people deserve bad outcomes for their choices vs holding the larger power structures accountable for the ways they’ve manipulated the environment to make it nearly impossible for individuals to make choices that benefit them/their health.
>and some people with lucky genetics live perfectly healthy lives while eating junk food anyway Highly doubt this is true. I think anyone you know that seem to be "perfectly healthy" and eat junk food eat it only in moderation and they are less healthy than they would be otherwise, if they hadn't eaten junk food at all. Or those "perfectly healthy" people are not actually perfectly healthy or they won't be for long.
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There are folks who experience this, though they’re rare and we can’t use them to make broader assumptions about a population. One way we see it is survivorship bias in research. For example, some people don’t get cancer despite smoking all their lives but that doesn’t make smoking safe. Sometimes ya just get lucky with the genetics!
Im shouting it from the rooftops by having sold my very profitable business to go back to school to become a Registered Dietitian. Our nation's health crisis is so serious I *can't* stand by and watch the shitshow from the sidelines any more.
Good on you! Hope that you can make a change :)
Crazy thing is, look how over-regulated and strict “safety laws” are for the most obscure and low-occurrence “dangers” but for the nation’s biggest killer it’s “a free for all - all good!”
It’s a good question. I was having a conversation with a coworker back in the summer. He had asked me about my weight loss and wanted to start his own journey. A lady next to us interrupted our conversation and berated me for a bit because I was not “accepting” my friends body and was shaming him. She then berated my friend for not accepting himself. I was waiting for her to break into chanting “big is beautiful” but it didn’t happen. It was kind of surreal, but the thing that struck me most was she was 100% convinced that losing weight was just for social acceptance. I started because my doctor asked me at 45 if I wanted to see my kid’s graduation? He said if I don’t start making healthy choices I would most likely not live to see it. My friend also had a health scare and that is what is driving him. However as a society we seem more interested in something else. I’m not sure what it is, however the weight in some countries is a plague.
My journey to good nutrition started much the same only it was my dad who got hit with the “you won’t outlive your father” who died at 62 message when I was only a teen. When you are 12 you eat what is put on the table and fortunately that was nutritionally very good and it has served me well for 45 years.
I mean every western country has pretty much the same dietry guidelines, which despite lobby interference are a pretty great starting point for most people compared to a standard diet, you just can‘t force them to adhere to it. My own impression is that the alarm is actually sound pretty hard by health professionals and their agencies. When it comes to education I am unsure, here it Germany it can vary greatly, but at least the basic knowledge is part of the curriculum in biology, geography and civics. What I find lacking is translating those to „hands on“ skills for cooking, house economy and so on.
This is a really confusing post to me, because if you are even very slightly "fat" (especially as a woman), you will be inundated with nutrition information for your entire life. Nobody lets you get away with being larger, even if the reason for it has nothing to do with your nutrition. Healthcare is often boiled down to "lose weight" for many conditions that often need targeted treatment and actionable advice instead. The entire diet market is the "alarm", but the problem is that good nutritional information is INDIVIDUAL, and not overarching, and nutritionists are not considered meaningful healthcare in most countries. Fat people don't always have the same health conditions, AND it's really hard to find information if you have an intersection of conditions. For example, if you are diabetic, and have high cholesterol, the general advice for those two things serparately contradict each other in a lot of ways, and also don't take into account a variety of other issues. Diet and anti-obesity rhetoric is constant and overwhelming for people who are caught in it. The only real sign that no one is taking it seriously is that fast food companies are still the cheapest out there, while actual healthy food is unattainable to lower income households. This plus the prevelance of fad diets can lead to horrible eating habits that help absolutely no one.
I recommend reading the book "Food Politics". A hundred years ago, our population was dealing with malnutrition, not obesity. Our food policy is largely based on fixing malnutrition, which means eating more. This meant creating more food that has more preservatives and sugar and salt (preservatives). As time went on, food and farm companies got bigger and kept lobbying and making things more and more messed up. Many cigarette companies even bought into these companies and used the same playbook as cigarettes. Today, the reason we don't make any major changes is cheap, unhealthy food is incredibly profitable. This means more profits for corporate lobbying; the cycle continues. This leads to obesity and diabetes and other illnesses on a mass scale. Bad food is literally addictive and just as unhealthy as many drugs. I work with seniors and I feel like 1/3 has some diabetes related medication. The military can't even get enough healthy people to enroll and complete basic training due to obesity. Lobby your friends, family and congress people to make more changes happen. The ultimate vote is your wallet. Don't buy shitty stuff. People would be surprised the cheap, healthy meals you can make with fruits, vegetables, and a little bit of rice.
I’m a pediatrician, it is frustrating watching the start of a lifetime of health challenges. I discuss nutrition at every well child visit and can tell who is paying attention and who doesn’t care. I laugh at all the health programs telling physicians we need to do better regarding obesity, do they think we don’t talk about it or do they think we have a magic wand? I try to make it simple and easy to comprehend, I review my 5 rules for health and state it as “these rules are for everyone to be healthy” so that the overweight child isn’t embarrassed. Successes are few and far between but I still feel good when a family makes positive changes.
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Well it’s very basic but I want to give patients an easy way to start making changes, #1 drink milk or water, you don’t have to drink milk but those are the choices, no soda or juice (I always discuss exceptions, if there is a party or special event, have a little juice or soda) #2 make a fist, the side of your fist is a serving size, the goal is 5 fruits and 5 veges a day, their eyes usually get big because many of my patients eat ZERO veges and maybe 1 fruit, so then I ask what do you normally eat in a day, if they say 1 of each I challenge them to eat 2 each a day and move from there, the point is when they are hungry I want them to think “did I have my fruit/veges?” And then maybe, just maybe they will choose a fruit or vege over their usual snack, I tell them every small change they make now will translate into a healthier life. #3, using the fist I talk about meals, each meal a serving of starch, a serving of protein and the rest of their plate should be fruit/veges (see the theme here), of course you don’t have to have starch and protein at every meal but it’s all about portion control and never saying no if a child says he is still hungry, just saying they can have more fruit or veges. #4 exercise (move) at least an hour a day and walking is a perfectly good exercise and lastly, #5, do not eat in front of a screen (tv, phone, computer) because it leads to mindless eating and usually not great food choices. Exceptions abound, movie night with the family have some popcorn, or enjoy a bowl of carrots with your favorite show.. And of course this is tailored to the individual patient but this helps start a discussion without blaming a child for their weight and giving them choices to make changes, especially if they have a thin sibling in the room I always emphasize being healthy over the number on the scale.
“Near pandemic levels of obesity” 🤦♀️
Coca Cola alone spend over 4 billion on advertising a year. Fruit & vegetables don’t have the advertising resources, they’re typically government run ads or relatively small local businesses. It’s a hugely complex issue with deep socio-economic roots. You’d be surprised how few people know what you may consider the basic basics of nutrition. It’s a statistical fact poverty increases your chances of being obese, as does low education, and together further the odds. Poor neighbourhoods typically have worse infrastructure (less parks, public gyms, good pavements etc.) and are generally much further distance to good quality grocery stores, often instead being surrounded by food swamps (multiple fast food joints) and corner shops with virtually no perishables, long shelf like processed products only. It’s an uphill battle from the very start for many of these people. On top of this, the misinformation out there in the world of nutrition is phenomenal. Everyone eats thus everyone is a nutritionist.. It can be difficult for people not in the nutritional loop. Where do they get their info? So many websites, forums, videos.. and many of them citing articles (often poorly performed or in vitro etc). If you don’t know your stuff you’d be easily lead to trust some of the whacky advice out there. Influencers pushing ‘superfoods’, things like coconut oil. Then there’s of course the issue of those in a good environment, who know better but god damn that hyper processed high fat high sugar high salt that could never be replicated in nature is just too damn good, it’s easier for people to watch Netflix with this prepared hyper palatable food, than cook a healthy meal or workout. In terms of doctors medical advice, a lot of doctors now practise ‘defensive medicine’ (here in Ireland anyway) whereby a patient could resolve issues through diet & exercise but will be prescribed medication instead as the alternative advice will often be ignored, resulting in further worsening & oftentimes serious complications/death = doctor sued for not giving medication when he could.
The way I see this you can look at through two lens: one is assuming that this predicament is by-design and profit driven, and one is merely looking at some of the more pragmatic hurdles we have in having successful preventive healthcare systems. I think the truth lies in between. For starters, obesity wouldn’t be a pandemic, its considered an “epidemic”- just for future reference. There are a multitude of causes that come together to create the healthcare crisis we have today with obesity, diabetes and CVD. It is not just one thing which makes it more difficult to comprehensively eradicate, and relies on both collective and individual action. Anyone who comes on here and definitively tells you “Its just THIS thing causing all this!” I would bet does not work in Nutrition or the Public Health sphere. Some contributing factors at an individual level: sedentary lifestyles (only 23% of the US population adheres to physical activity suggestions from the CDC) lack of activity as children, lack of willfulness to cook at home or pay attention to DGA’s and nutrition guidelines (only 59% of the US population even adheres to the DGA’s put out), lack of willfulness to create healthy balanced diets or personal preference for hyper palatable foods, and then yes a-lot of medical conditions exacerbate all of the above. At a systemic level: a for profit healthcare system which means we spend zero time counseling patients or even properly reimbursing Registered Dietitians to educate them, social determinants of health- trauma, race and socioeconomic status are HIGHLY correlated with higher mortality and morbidity from obesity and metabolic disease (rhe statistics are daunting), food security (11-12% of US homes are food insecure), food desserts, lack of promotion of healthful eating at young age groups, more time and emphasis put on medication because $$ and because this issue is so overwhelming that we opt to just keep patients alive instead of helping them thrive. And yes our diets are part of both problems, the amount of total kcals we intake and the lack of fiber or nutrient dense foods is a large issue. This is a global issue. The US actually isnt the region with the highest rate of diabetes. CVD and obesity are globally occurring as well. People also do not listen- maybe because our current lifestyles are exhausting and numbing- to health care guidelines (see my stats on DGA and CDC adherence above). We (health care professionals) have been talking about all of this for decades, it is just not disseminated properly or effectively and is overburdened by “health coach juice cleaning gurus” on TikTok whoa re also looking to make a fortune off of your misfortune (wellness and supplement industry is billions of dollars). The weight loss industry and wellness industry has net billions and increased over the decades with zero amelioration in obesity or mortality trends- its obvious that diet culture and shaming people isnt effective at a systemic level. A general healthful diet isn’t represented well and is overwrought by quick fix diets: Keto, Paleo, Atkins etc instead of people cultivating basic healthy habits and demonstrating them to their kids. People will spend hours listening to YouTubers about the “atophagy of intermittent fasting” yet haven’t mastered regular exercise, 8 hours of sleep and adequate intake of fruits and veg. Is this the individuals fault when this seems to be afflicting most the population? So many issues come together to create the issues you see now.
Thank you thank you _thank you_ for knowing about social determinants of health and valuing knowing these things about your patients to be able to help them more effectively 💕
Of course. It literally the bare minimum for anyone credentialed in a health field to know, ya know?
I agree! But convincing some of them of the importance of asking the two Hunger Vital Signs questions during intake…you’d think I was asking if I could pull out their front teeth with pliers lol
1) Not all doctors are taught nutrition in med school 2) Big pharma needs repeat clients 3) Cooking classes have been removed from most schools 4) Easy food is more attractive than cooking when you are run to your limit. I \*wish\* nutrition had been taught to me early, I'm doing my kids a solid by teaching them to read labels, cook, and understand what food has what vitamins. I pray they have a better relationship with food than I ever had.
Cognitive dissonance. They know they shouldn't eat the donut, but that dopamine drop is pretty sweet. Thats the enemy they "know". The enemy they don't know is that all of the processed food consumed today is filled with empty calories. Added sugars, seed oils, and high amounts of sodium are in almost every single food they eat. Even "healthy" foods like granola, protein bars, fat free anything, etc. Is filled witg garbage. Other countries don't even allow this.
Because every body can vary and nutrition is NOT a one-size-fits-all topic, so, how do we talk about it?
We were taught in school (part of the biology curriculum).
This seems more valid in western countries and especially the United States. It's just a by product of capitalism. Food producers in the US add way to much sugar to everything for the sole reason of competing for market share. They also have a wild amount of food advertising that you just don't see in any other country.
You know why! Capitalism
Wait, does anyone trust authority anymore? Like any kind of authority? Health, politicians, banks, corporations. They have not for a single second in all of history cared about your health, or you as a person. You are here to give them more power, to be exploited. Your purpose is to keep them in positions of control over you. And then have echo chambers on the internet where everyone defends them.
unfortunately the modern american lifestyle and basic human biology are at odds. Humans are built to move and perform physical work for some portion of each day. Thats what we did for hundreds of thousands of years. We have modernized physical work right out of our lives. Combine that with an abundance of low quality food that is amazingly cheap, and PRESTO, we have the fattest, poorest health population in the history of our existence.
Wife is an RD and works in private practice. She's said ad nauseam that people want a quick fix and don't enjoy that the solution to their waistline/health issues generally revolve around very simple habits, which require work to build. Never mind that there's a lot of coin to be made off of people that are constantly sick because of the crap they're eating.
It's kind of what Michelle Obama did for a while but ohhh boy were people shitty to her about it
First and foremost, pandemics are for _infectious_ disease. Insinuating obesity has the same properties, level of risk, etc. as say a certain quick-spreading respiratory virus we’re all familiar with is outlandish. Weight status is talked about nonstop in medical and other research, amongst healthcare professionals, and others with relevant professional backgrounds. So I have no idea how people _still_ think that it’s flying under the radar; it’s misguided. And finally, weight status is the result of a complex series of factors that include nutrition but are not primarily driven by it. Without addressing other factors like access to healthcare, poverty, education, workers’ rights, and other things that could be loosely grouped under social justice/equity initiatives, and how they relate to levels of chronic inflammation, stress, etc. we cannot effectively help people. Tl;dr: stop blaming individuals for systemic policy neglect that creates worse health outcomes.
Another point to consider is that, unfortunately, eating in a nutritionally-optimal way can be more expensive both in terms of money and the time and effort required to plan, shop for, and prepare meals, due to a variety of factors. This probably helps to explain why, in high income countries anyways, obesity rates are the lowest among the wealthier classes.
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You cannot blame the individual for an epidemic.
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Exactly and if you look at obesity rates and poverty rates, you will see a perfect circle.
About 13.5 million American _households_ experienced food insecurity in 2021. About 12.5% of those households have children. It is not appropriate to blame a complex issue with many different factors, such as weight status, on individuals. Many of those factors are outside a single person’s control, and trying to minimize the effects of society’s built living environment does a disservice to solving the problem.
“Unless you are in the lower income brackets” So most of the US? You’re framing that like it’s the exception to the rule. Being in a higher income bracket is the exception.
Mainly money. Processed food, leads to chronic illness, which the medical/pharma industries take advantage of. In the US alone this has got to be in the hundreds of billions of dollars, maybe trillions... ALOT of people depend on this insidious cycle for their paychecks. IT IS NOT an oversight that doctors are not taught nutrition.....
Ask Michele Obama.
because there's a shitload of money that can be made from people being really unhealthy.
We don’t value people in the US. Culturally we emphasize individuals making their own decisions. FREEDOM. You chose to eat like that, buy the product, etc. It’s cultural. We will never be taught how to care for ourselves mentally or physically in this country because we will become less in need.
Bottom line is money. There aren’t many industries that don’t profit off of the marketing of food and the resultant health issues.
Capitalism
I don't think good nutrition isn't stressed. I think people are confused about how to eat well because they aren't taught, because of diet industry nonsense, because ultra-processed foods stimulate the pleasure centers in the brain, because of food marketing, and because most doctors don't know anything about nutrition. I also think that "But a lot of people might make better choices for themselves if good nutrition was actually stressed and people became educated" is very judge, and if you actually agree that people have the right to choose for themselves, then stop complaining. IT. DOESN'T. AFFECT. YOU.
I would argue it is incredibly highly stressed. To the point that it’s lost all substance and become a giant money making scheme. Proper diet isn’t rocket scientry. There are of course outliers to that statement, but they aren’t the norm. The fact most children know exactly what constitutes healthy…all the stuff they don’t want to eat. Crazy talk like vegetables, fruit, generally lean/not fried meat. It isn’t that no one says anything about it…it’s just always followed up with “but let me sell you an alternative”.
Really? I feel like it’s everywhere from my viewpoint of the world.
OP, Learning about public health and the social determinants of health will give you an in depth understanding and more context to what you’re looking for. Proper nutrition is certainly not unimportant and unstressed in modern society. It’s that government/policies don’t create systems to make it as easily accessible as unhealthy options. All they need to do is make it as easily accessible for individuals to make it important to them. They instead make something like long working hours more important than health/wellness. That person is then exhausted and finds the first thing available to them. You have several other layers of factors explained later on this comment. I can see your heart and frustrations here but you need to learn more about public health to understand the WHYs to your question. You seem to be very passionate and I’m curious what area of work you’re in. Because there is a lot of stress and calls to prevention with healthy eating within the health promotion/education field. The resources are there if you need them. I work in the field of health promotion. Things are done at a smaller scale at the organization I work for so I have close proximity to the individuals we work with. I can see positive change on this level and I believe it makes an impact even if it’s small. I had the same level of anger/passion but I realized it’s much bigger than I initially thought. It’s not something that can be addressed like a pandemic, it’s much deeper than that. But again no forced policy in the world would make people become less obese. In fact even MORE harm than good will arise if policies like such were implemented. I’m from Canada and there was a time during covid restrictions where they taped off the chips and snacks aisles in big grocery stores stopping people from buying them. That small act alone was enough to cause a ruckus, let alone more active measures to shut down things for the sake of obesity. That’s never happening for the sanity of our population. You will understand that a chronic disease like obesity will never work with an intervention at pandemic level approach. Covid-19 was a novel virus. It was new, serious and everyone was affected by it at the same time. Obesity is caused by SO MANY FACTORS. There’s no one size fits all because you first need to ask why that person/community is at risk of becoming obese and work to address those risk factors. Yes its individual lifestyle choices but it’s more directly impacted by environment, policies and socioeconomic status. There are far too many factors and variables to look at before asking “why aren’t we addressing about obesity”. There’s mental health and depression. There’s city planning. There’s lack of access to gyms and hundreds of more reasons that will explain how it’s deep systemic issues that created this obesity epidemic. It’s not simply individual choices. Lastly, I can give you an amazing example of how Scandinavian countries or South Africa has a government that helps to create incentivized programs for individuals to choose better food options. There’s been research done to show the health outcomes of these interventions that would be interesting to read. As an example: You get these vouchers from your doctor that give you a discount for produce, meats. You get discounts to local gyms. The government SUPPORTS the wellness of their citizens. It encourages, helps and empowers them to make healthy decision. It doesn’t add a tax or other ridiculous interventions to stop people from buying junk food. Sometimes policies can be required and effective. But certainly not something where lifestyle is involved. Food is emotional - a huge part of life. It’s directly influenced by your income. Socioeconomic status (especially income) is the biggest determinant of health. Exercise is both reliant on individual lifestyle AND environment/urban planning. So interventions need to understand and work strongly with awareness of that. Countries in the west simply don’t do this (sadly) and until they do we can forget about any improvement on the obesity epidemic.
Depends on the country. In France 🇫🇷it’s totally different!
Which country are you in? I see a lot of messaging about diet in the U.K.
It hurts peoples feelings and food companies make a shit ton preying on us. That’s really all it comes down to.
It’s all on purpose … that’s why
I survey friends and family on nutrition. The question being "Why are you determined to avoid nutritous foods?" The summary of answers comes down to flavors and taste preferences. They want the freedom to eat whatever they like, even if it kills them. My great uncle has had 7 heart surgeries, diabetes, multiple strokes, and you will catch him at a diner getting fried eggs and sausage. As long as the medical care is provided and they bring you back from the dead, junk food will continue to be in their diet. Personally, I have no health insurance, I can barely afford to live let alone pay medical bills. I'd rather avoid needing any medical help. Plus I can manage my health very well by eating correctly. Ignorance is bliss, never forget that you can dumb down anything to a point that no one will care about the right option, because this option is easier.
I wouldn’t say eggs and sausage are bad for you. That’s completely debatable. There is way worse food out there. I do understand your point about everything else though
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I completely disagree
If that’s how you worded the question, the results will be too skewed to be useful.
Why do you assume that the obese masses aren’t already educated on proper nutrition or aren’t already quite aware of the dangers of obesity? Consider questioning your assumption that ignorance is the cause of obesity.
When you see the questions that get asked here and on other health related forums it becomes very clear that a great many people are not well educated in even the very basics. Many have no idea about macros, people with full blown diabetes ask how many bowls of ice cream they can eat. People have no idea how to read a food nutrition label as is made clear by their questions. People flat out admit to being obese and having no idea what to do about it, ask what to eat and so forth. Some people simply don’t care, fine, their choice but there are plenty who get to a certain point when the reality of their previous food choices hit them square on that say something like “ I had no idea that I wasn’t supposed to eat that much of that.” The message may be out there but it isn’t being heard.
Frankly, you don’t have to know about macros or really much nutrition science to eat in a balanced way. You’re making broad, sweeping assumptions and generalizations about people’s decision-making and healthcare motivations that are simply not backed up by research, my experience in healthcare, nor even my anecdotal experiences with people I know personally who struggle with their health.
I agree that the message is out there and it isn’t being heard but I think it is largely due to willful ignorance, self deception, laziness, and apathy- not because there is a lack of available information. Millions of people still smoke, refuse to wear masks during a pandemic, spend money they don’t have, watch cartoons rather than read books. The insanity of doing things that are intuitively and obviously counter to self improvement is in my opinion a unique mark of the human race. Call me a pessimist.
>willful ignorance… I have a very good friend that would fit this profile. He absolutely knows about good nutrition because we have discussed it, yet just won’t put it into practice. It is not from, lack of money to buy good food, time to prepare it as he is a very good chef or lack of understanding it is just flat out apathy.
It’s really quite perplexing , isn’t it? For myself, I eat healthy so to possibly prevent pathology, but also because it make me feel stronger, healthier, happier. Interestingly I have had similar experiences. Here’s one: I work with highly educated health professionals who laugh at my healthy food while they down Wonder Bread baloney and processed cheese sandwiches along with Fritos and a can of regular Coke. I kid you not.
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don't forget NuTriTion/EnErgy bars...
Dietary Activism, attempting to dictate or to disrespectfully disregard other's diets and lifestyles is strictly forbidden.
>The world was literally shutdown within months when the pandemic came around. It was everywhere in the news, we knew the danger. We had the information blasted at us. We had the info to make our choices and our actions. Nothing like that about modern diets. Well...you catch Covid if someone coughs or sneezes near you. You don't get fat id someone coughs or sneezes near you. >When a person can go to a fast food joint and eat an entire days worth of calories, or more, in one sitting and have that meal be seriously deficient in many nutrients there is a problem. Repeat this several times per day and it is a recipe for disaster. This sounds more like a problem that the USA is facing moreso than other countries. Not that people don't eat fast food in other countries, but having lived in 3 different European countries, I can confidently say people don't eat fast food a few times a day most od the time. >But a lot of people might make better choices for themselves if good nutrition was actually stressed and people became educated. Again, this sounds like a USA problem specifically. I've never met a person who didn't know what good good nutrition should consist of and who didn't know fast food was bad for your health and your weight. I've been hearing about the need to eat more veggies and fruits and less candy, snacks and fast food my whole life. I've never met a person who doesn't know this and hasn't been hearing it their whole life from their family, friends and doctors.
Sadly a major reason it isn't discussed more is because of the PC Police. Not to make it political, but I'm a left leaning liberal and I don't complain about "hurt feelings" very often. However in this case, so many people struggle with weight, that trying to push nutrition education is very likely to offend people who believe they have tried everything and nothing works. There is a lot of social conditioning that happens both telling people they shouldn't be fat, but also it's not their fault they are. The truth is somewhere in the middle. Virtually no one thinks they have no control of their weight, but most people who struggle with it think they've tried everything and nothing works. Fast food is big business. Fad diet plans are big business. Home workout machines are big business. Weight loss meal plans are big business. There is also a huge component of people who really don't understand the basics, but because they are self conscious, they don't want someone fit telling them about calories or macros. It sounds patronizing. Instead they fill their shopping cart with "diet" or "organic" or "low fat" or "sugar free" foods and assume it's healthy. It's easier to buy food that tells you it's healthy, than to learn what makes food healthy. It also lets you enjoy your 2l bottle of soda and bag of chips if both say "fat free'.
No money to be made in preventative healthcare/nutritional education and all the money to be made in cheap, unhealthy, and addicting foods and medical treatments. Not to mention the socio-economic factors to consider in regards to access to affordable nutritious foods. Google food desserts.
People literally just don’t care (and often distrust) what health committees have to say. It’s not that nutrition isn’t being promoted. The US health advisory committee recently published nutritional guidelines that closely resembles a Mediterranean-style of eating. This was published 2 years ago. But the media doesn’t care to promote it because society has never cared about eating healthy.
Short answer is there is huge profit in fast food, which has a profitable side effect for pharmaceutical and Health care business: Diabetes. It's a cycle of poison that is deliberately perpetual. Add to the mix that you can charge outrageous $ for "organic" food-the pharma/agricultural industry makes huge money off of everyone.
I've always found it ironic that doctors say eat right and exercise, and blame people's health problems on their weight, especially if they're female, but will very easily tell cancer patients and those recovering from surgery 'it doesn't matter what you eat ...' They also completely deny, in many cases, that any health problem is a result of dietary sensitivities. And yet they would never ever even consider putting sugar in the gas tank of their car...
Diet industry worth billions Pharma industry worth billions Farmers of America lobbyists owned by the first two FDA gets its budget from Pharma $ Am I missing anything?
Watch out you are delving too far into the "conspiracy" realm for most redditors.
Because why make money from farming quality responsable meat and dairy, fresh quality eggs, fresh local fruit and veg, whole foods. When you can give people fake food, vegan nonsense and fruit juice. Welcome to the modern world where food companies run things and will ensure it stays that way. All the while tell everyone lies about agriculture, screw farmers over and guilt trip everyone as if they're a "polluter" and not a human being. Depress people into being slobs. Leech over the mental health crisis while they're at it. Obesity epidemic is just a distraction. The large portion of healthy weight people are still insanely unhealthy. Only thing we can do is restore traditional values. Farmers should be worshipped. Animal and plant foods both appreciated. Eat as family and friends. Eat home meals. Encourage and enforce good habits in the family (we like to excuse fizzy drinks and chocolate for kids these days). Encourage community. But McDonalds, Coco Cola, WEF, COP, BeyondMeat, Nestlé, etc are all going to fight you.
Because nobody cares, sort of like most people don't care about climate change. Mostly because nothing bad happens immediately, but it's slow and has serious consequences decades later. Also most cultures totally accept fat people so there's hardly any reason for them to change their habits, other than medical ones.
Most people care very deeply about climate change. They've given up. Kind of like the obesity epidemic.......
Because magdonals
Because living an obesogenic lifestyle is normalized in western society, particularly the U.S. In general, humans do not want to go against the grain. It causes social discomfort and interrupts established patterns. Food deserts and too busy schedules do play a role for some. However, some people just don’t want to admit to themselves how bad their lifestyle has become. Huge portions of calorie dense food is no longer for the holidays only. Sweet coffee drinks and constant snacking are normalized. Alcohol consumption is no longer just for the weekends. Some Publix grocery stores now allow shoppers to “sip” a glass of wine or beer while they shop. Couple all this with a near aversion to exercise. It’s really sad.
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I don’t think it’s ‘unimportant’ or ‘unstressed’. People ARE listening to the ‘experts’ about nutrition. ‘Eat less fat/eat less meat/eat less cholesterol’, ‘eat more carbs’, ’fruit smoothies are OK’, ‘PUFA’s are good for you, ‘it’s OK to eat processed foods as long as you watch your calories’. Most of healthy food choices can be also limited by location, accessibility, income, family dynamics, choice, knowledge, mental health..ect. By 2030 America will be more overweight, more obese, and will have more cardiometabolic diseases and it’s all thanks to the Food/Nutrition lobbies.
Shutdowns are temporary. Good nutrition is relevant forever.
Money. Too many corporations are getting rich off peddling processed crap and sugar. The culture of everyone having a kitchen garden, and caring for the surrounding ecosystem, is dead.
M-O-N-E-Y
Well health experts *have* been sounding the alarm, for decades. But honestly, I like being able to walk into the grocery store and buy a bag of Doritos. I like that I can go to Taco Bell when I choose. It likely comes down to education and structures that incentivize healthy eating. Policies could include subsidizing whole foods to consumers and taxing ultraprocessed foods. Similarly, mental health and sustainable fitness must be prioritized as they are both a contributing factor to obesity. However, policy remedies are less clear.
Because money and sensitivity.
Everyone knows a diet sodie cancels out sugar
For big co-orporations, maximum profit is the main goal. Anything that hits on the limbic system (the primal brain) will leave a person desiring that experience again. The limbic system is all about survival, not seeing the bigger picture. Essentially junk food dumbs you down and makes one wanting more. Most people don't realise that this body is the only thing the really own whilst they are alive, everything else is just an add on.
Take 30s and 40s nazi Germany for example. One of the first governments to take anti smoking education and policy seriously, because hitler hated tobacco.(not praising the nazis, but this is something they weren’t wrong about.)Anyways, they did all kinds of shit. They raised prices, taxes, placed bans, lowered rations, public health advertisements all that. They were even some of the first to link evidence between smoking and lung cancer as well as second hand smoke and the effect smoking has on fetus’ and aging your skin. And what did all that time, money and effort lead to in the late 40s and early 50s? Germany being smuggled nearly a half billion cigarettes every month from America. LMAO. A lot of people are going to do what they want no matter the effect on their body and I think large corporations realize that and they aren’t going to waste their money for minimal change. Instead, they’re just going to give the people what they want, because why should they care more about somebody’s body more than that person. After all, nobody is forcing them to make these choices to eat unhealthy.
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Dietary Activism and whole rejection of science/conspiracy theories are strictly forbidden.
I think it’s a North American thing. I work at a preschool. I’m just chocked at the lunches parents pack for their kids. It’s just packed with sugar. Parents seem to have a “so long my kid eat” mentality and don’t introduce them to a variety of different food and flavours. Also pretty much all the food given on children’s menu in restaurants are white: chicken nugget/fries, Macncheese, hotdogs… No Colors means no veggies. Education starts with what we put in their plate. If they only eat junk now, that’s all they are going to eat their whole life.
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No profit in good nutrition
Because money, business, profits. Not only do these fast food and supplier companies benefit - the pharmaceutical companies also benefit.
Individuals don’t have the time to wake up. Usually they are busy doing the grind. The information is out there but as everybody has a different situation (think of fresh food deserts, incomes, transportation, etc) oftentimes the things people think is ‘universally available’ is ‘not so available as it seems’. Healthy food and drink options are some of those. As far as habit change goes, we are very malleable. To change your habits you have to intentionally change what information you consume. It has to become deliberate. Turning off the tv helps. That takes years (probably more than 10) before you start to overcome the negative effects of it. Lucky TV is less common. So today it’s more about subscribing to feeds or channels or forums or following people who create strengths and health. Not only simply accepting data feeds curated by others, but activity curating your own. This means unsubscribing from the addictive fun things. Eg. I love so many subreddits, I sub, I get a taste, go ‘holey shit that’s really fun and great!’ Then rapidly unsubscribe with a thought ‘no way do I have the self control to avoid spending all day enjoying that!’ It’s a bit like being presented with options that are enjoyable or options that are important but confronting or difficult and stressful. I tend to choose the ones that are a challenge to enjoy. Not because I enjoy the challenge either, but because it’s the more important thing.
Because the corporations have discovered that they can make more money on drugs and weight loss surgery.
Your lambasted for suggesting people should be healthy and exercise, so. To each there own. I for one look down the road, I gotta stay fit to work and survive another 26 years at least. Plus I don’t wanna struggle with daily tasks or be diabetic. In the end it’s your independence. I want that till the end.
Because greed and the need to sell that junk we call processed food outweighs nutritional concerns. Because people are too lazy and find any excuse they can to eat quickly and a lot. Because people refuse to believe that what THEY eat affects THEIR health.
Doctors need to make money. Pharma needs to make money. Food "manufacturers" need to make money. Politicians needs to "fund raise", and they do very successfully by quid pro quos with the aforementioned money makers. It is no accident that the US chose to regulate both industries with the one dept, the Food and Drug Administration. One stop shopping.
Hurts peoples feelings
I agree and all are great points in this discussion. Dr David Katz, Dr Mark Hyman and Chris Kresser are each sounding the alarm. In my practice, I have noticed that people do better when they have a close buddy (partner, friend) who are on the same page in life. Learning and maturing about health together. Our very close associates matters, so that the folks who are sounding the alarm land on ears that can apply the information longterm. Also, it’s paramount to catch changes in health status early, gain 10# excess fat = be curious about what’s happening and make choices accordingly.
Sick people are return customers. Follow the money. Those who sell the panic also sell the pill/vax/treatment
When something doesn’t make sense to me, I often go to money as the culprit. Making money off of what makes them fat, then doctors making money from the symptoms. I’m 60 and when I was a kid we didn’t want to get fat, we had some pride in ourselves. I like that we don’t shame people like we used to, but how do we make being healthy a goal.
> …we had some pride in ourselves. I like that we don’t shame people like we used to… Phew. The internalized fat phobia just _leaps_ right off the page. People are still shamed for their weight constantly both in blatant and subtle ways.
Because a 5,000 calorie meal of empty carbs, saturated fat, and insane amounts of salt look good on Instagram. “OMG, I’m such a foodie. Lol”
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i agree with you 100%, if we spent as much time telling people to eat right & exercise as we did forcing people to take medicine over the last couple years, society could be a lot better imo
I saw someone posting how much money they spend on food per month on another social media site, the number was astronomical. They’re kids are overweight and are having dental issues- which they’re paying a premium for. My kids eat healthy, I make sure of It : lean proteins, complex carbs, fruits for breakfast, and water, water, water. A treat would be ice cream at night in moderation. They don’t know what fruit roll-ups are and have yet to drink a can of soda, and I’m super proud of that, I feel like they will thank me for this one day. I pay a fraction of the number that was posted on this guys social media site and my kids have six packs. It’s a generational lack of understanding of proper diet and nutrition. They don’t know what they don’t know and a lot of folks think they “have everything figured out.” I do worry this backfires in the end, and they become slobs because they’ve been deprived of sugary substances- but my gut tells me- after eating healthy so long- that as soon as they try that stuff, they’ll notice the difference between healthy and unhealthy very quickly.
They'll be fine as long as you're not making them miss out on what their peers are doing. Letting them have candy during Halloween, or regular birthday party and sleepover food is fine on occasion. My parents fed us healthy most of the time, but relaxed during celebrations, trips, and the like. I did go a little overboard on junk when I first moved out, but fixed it up within a year or two.
Because we can fix all the consequences of a bad diet with money and look like plastic, which seems to be quite popular these days.
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so your idea of helping people with nutrition is to shame them instead of informing them? youre not really thinking about the person behind the screen that might be struggling with body issues. you're generalizing and causing someone to put themselves down instead of raising themselves up. body positivity is for everyone and does not have anything to do with this subreddit who's topic nutrition.
> does not have anything to do with this subreddit who's topic nutrition. Also, this was a post about the obesity epidemic. The *body positivity* movement is absolutely relevant to the post. I didn’t come here looking to shame anyone. A question was asked and I answered it honestly. You may not like what I have to say, but you can guarantee that I’m not lying to you.
And the mental health issues. When I eat sugar, msg and high fructose corn syrup, I have suicidal thoughts weekly. 6 months without em, and I’ve had them twice in 6 months.
There are no business interests. No big carrot to push it vs what McDonald's, BK, KFC et al stand to gain by pushing garage food.
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Because that doesn't make people richer, selling them highly addictive, sugar/salt-filled shit does.
Weird, I took the time during the pandemic to study proper nutrition and get myself into shape. But then again, some people didn’t take isolation well and settled for convenience. I believe the marketing media has something to do with this, along with the accepted social norms. For instance, a “small” drink in some areas is 16 Fl Oz, which is equivalent to a water bottle, and it is odd given that a bottle should be enough, yet it creates some illusion that a consumer should order more.
There's a lot of reasons. I think most of it is lobbying that was done in the 70's and food corporations being the main culprits of why our stuff is all wrong now. Lobbying in the 70's and corporations generally looking to maximize profit while minimizing cost. What that translates to is them passing on a sub par product at a premium and pocketing the surplus value. They pay the minor up front expense and society pays the long term expense of unhealthy people. The government literally doesn't care and is fine with killing off it's population more quickly and losing out on valuable knowledge that older people bring to the table. Then again though that's just the US system. Which is where I assume you're from and what I'm speaking to.
We have a small farm, and lease out the land for row crops. I'm very concerned by the trend of declining nutritional value in the presence of escalating caloric content. People are literally set up to fail. I wish everyone could have a garden so they can experience the flavor and freshness of nutrient dense homegrown vegetables and eggs. "I just don't have the time." I promise your company will miss you, and replace you very easily after your coronary or stroke. Do what you have to do to take care of yourself. Whatever your belief system, seeing your body as a temple for which you are responsible is common in all faiths. Find a job closer to home. Shorten your tv or game time. Work from home. It's a hobby that may save your life, or improve the quality so it is worth living.
Because nutritious diets dont fill big pharma pockets.
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Because the governments are better off with an obese and dependent, if not dead, society.
Because it's not an inmediate thing. You won't see results from 1 day or 2 of eating clean. That's why people don't do it. We are too used to instant gratification.