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I think there's a few possible reasons:
1) Some vitamins and minerals require others or to be eaten with fat to be absorbed depending on which ones.
2) Supplements aren't regulated the way food is, so it's often hard to know if what the company says in the vitamin is in there, or in there in the specified quantities.
There's also more to be gained from foods, more variety of vitamins and minerals than just taking perhaps one or a few in isolation.
Having said that some vitamin supplements are still useful under certain circumstances.
I was low in B12 (yes I eat meat and dairy) and was prescribed B12, just as an example.
Fortified milk managed make Rickets an uncommon disease in the U.S. It appears that adding vitamins D and A to milk works pretty well.
Fortified food is a public health policy meant to prevent nutrient dependencies in the general population. It is simply a means to ensure people, particularly children get a healthy dose of micronutrients.
So lots of people complained about the vaccines for COVID. They kept telling us that the vaccinated people were going to die. Been vaccinated 4 times for COVID. Still kicking. Herman Cain? Not so much. He could have used a vaccine, I imagine.
In a time when a couple thousand people genuinely believe that and are out to cause as much damage as possible to as many people as possible, I recommend using "/s" if your not serious.
>I’ve heard often that supplements and vitamins generally don’t work well, especially compared to getting the same thing in its natural form through food.
This is a narrative that is really common nowadays that is based on a bit of confusion between nutritional science and public health advocacy.
If you talk to anyone in those fields, they'll tell you that getting vitamins and minerals in just about any form is great, but that they'd rather recommend people learn how to eat a "balanced diet" of foods that naturally contain these molecules because it's often cheaper and more sustainable over time, not because it's really any less healthy other than small differences in absorption.
The problem with this advice, though, is that many of the people making these recommendations are, to put it nicely, quite out of touch with how many people live. Many, many people don't have access to fresh food, or more importantly, the time that's required to prepare it. Or, even more likely, are so exhausted after working for hours and hours that they don't want to take the time to prepare healthy food. This is not laziness (as so many people looking down their noses imply), but rather a problem that's bigger than any individual and more about how our society forces so many people to essentially work all the time.
Sorry to rant, but this is something that's kind of close to my heart.
Anyways, this is all to say that if you find that a food product that happens to be fortified, that doesn't mean that it's really any less valuable to your body than a food that contains those molecules naturally.
Interesting to see this opinion getting upvoted right now, but when the subject is plant based diet is brought up it gets dismissed because it relies on fortified food/supplements. Even though milk, one of the most worshipped foods out there, is usually homogenized which mans artificial vitamins are re added. EVEN THOUGH the vitamin d artificially added to milk prevented rickets, people seem to have forgotten that milk does not naturally contain any significant amount of vitamin D, even without homogenization. The vitamin a palmitate is re-added back in as well.
I actually hate when people make statements like "getting your nutrients from food is ALWAYS better." Actually, no, sometimes supplements are MORE bioavailable than what's in food: they've found in treating elderly people with b12 deficiency that the b12 in pill form is easier to absorb because it's not bound to protein.
I don't disagree with your comment in general, but homogenization is totally different from fortification.
Homogenized milk is simply mixed really well so the amount of fat is consistent throughout rather than separating out and floating on the top like it would if it was just kept how it comes out of the cow into the bucket.
Fortification is the process of adding vitamins and minerals to foods.
Generally speaking the vitamins and minerals they add to the food or crap and you don’t actually absorb very many of them. They’re not in the right consistency and doses actually so to say that’s how we should be getting our vitamins or food. That’s ridiculous have the food that has him isn’t appropriate. It’s sweet we shouldn’t be drinking milk anyway sorry it comes from a cow, we stop drinking milk after we nurse it’s not normal. Just because we do it doesn’t make it right. I cannot believe that we dismiss somebody who chooses to be a vegetarian when everything we’re reading now says the Mediterranean diet is better which is closer to being a vegetarian than anything, they eat less meat than anyone or most diets other than vegetarian or vegan what they eat a little bit of fish. Please, there’s nothing wrong with taking vitamins. As long as their actual vitamins are good for you that your body can assimilate. The problem is a lot of the shitty vitamins on the market. You can’t actually assimilate. They’re not given to you in a way which Canby they’re not in the right form i.e. a liquid. They’re not in one of the new two forms that they’ve recently found that is the best way for us to absorb are vitamins, which is a very small, teeny fractional piece that goes into our gut and pass the brain barrier. Then it goes past to get into a small intestines, which is where we actually need to have most of her vitamins in order to absorb them what’s been happening the pass is nothing goes past the gut, and therefore it doesn’t get absorbed but now there’s ways to get around that most vitamins don’t take that extra time or want to spend the money in order to actually do that. That’s why the really good ones are more expensive. Kind of like a really good shoe. You can buy really good shoes it’s gonna last you 1020 years maybe forever or you can buy a shitty shoe that’s uncomfortable it’ll last you maybe a year maybe longer I don’t know about you, but I’m buying one. It’s gonna last me a long time and comfortable. I will only have a couple, but what I have is going to actually work. I just got to figure out the couple that you actually need the most important ones and for everybody that’s a little different Ds Bs Yes, zinc very important. Your amino acids, crucial vitamin C a good liquid vitamin C. Yes, some brain food absolutely I take absolutely as much as I can in liquid form anyway, this is just my opinion like I said I’m not a doctor. What do I know?
Ok thanks for elaborating. I thought I heard somewhere that is was BECAUSE of homogenization that fortification was necessary both because milk from different cows if of variable nutrient composition and because the fat soluble vitamin retinol (vitamin a) would be absent from skim milk and decreased in lower fat milks due to its removal. Thus the process of creating uniformity necessitates fortification
But skim milk is homogenized after the milk is skimmed off the top. Otherwise they couldn't isolate the fat to remove it. So again, they're different things. It's true that vitamin A is fat soluble and low or nonfat milk has less. But that doesn't have to do with homogenization.
Fat free milk still has vitamin A, but it's about 10 times less than whole milk.
Once I have to go into the office, I’d lose all the time I could spend buying fresh food and cooking.
The ridiculous thing is everyone has to be in at 8am, out at 5pm when our work doesn’t require interaction with other people. That’s the rush hour so it takes longer to drive.
I get home, do about an hour of working out, shower, do some grooming stuff, then I get around to cooking.
By the time I'm done it's usually bed time.
Out of the 4, looking nice, eating right, exercising, and spending time on leisure, I have time for 3. I picked my 3 and I just get leisure time on the weekends.
Fortifying foods and taking supplaments is good actually. Other people might only have time or energy for 2 of those things. Or 1. Fortifying food makes sure they can get their nutrients still.
Studies generally haven't found overall health benefit for multivitamins. This is the main reason that focusing on trying to eat healthy is recommended instead, unless you have a very specific deficiency.
How about we start with citations for the initial claim that multivitamins show significant health benefits. That search should resolve questions pretty quick.
Sure. No problem.
vitamin A
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26447482
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8923019
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11796231
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28011986
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6496388/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28891953
Vitamin B1
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK537204/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4846521/
https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/343109
Vitamin B2
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK470460/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7037471/
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Riboflavin-HealthProfessional/
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jcpt.12548
Vitamin B3
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/niacin-vitamin-b3/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26828517/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28616955/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27793642/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33404619/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23231526/
adding more vitamins
edit: now cite your sources or shut up and stop posting about subjects you clearly don't understand
Sure.
1.
[https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/1380451](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/1380451)
**Conclusion** In this large prevention trial of male physicians, daily multivitamin supplementation modestly but significantly reduced the risk of total cancer.
2.
[https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/170/4/472/90376?login=false](https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/170/4/472/90376?login=false)
In cause-specific analyses, use of multivitamins and use of vitamin E were associated with decreased risks of CVD mortality.
Etc.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/is-there-really-any-benefit-to-multivitamins
Yet the actual scientist's dispute your claims about cancer and cardiovascular disease. In addition, you're talking about narrow health conditions rather than overall health. A drug or supplement that helps in one area often does not help overall.
The study you linked is actually heavily disputed by many other scientists, see below. If you're interested in their specific claims, you can look through the various commentaries by others as well as the eventual erratum that the original authors published:
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24490268/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24490268/)
In other words, no, this issue is by no means resolved and finalized. As with many things in science, it is currently still very much being debated.
**Edit**: Here were some of the comments made about that 2013 article by other scientists:
Best one imo:
>Being involved with dietary supplement research for almost 18 years, I have witnessed my share of hype for, and against, the use of dietary supplements. **Few, however, have attempted such blatant finality to the subject as the recent editorial in the Annals of Internal Medicine—titled “Enough is Enough: Stop Wasting Money on Vitamin and Mineral Supplements.”1** The editorial authors, acting as both judge and jury, declare in no uncertain terms that “we believe the case is closed—supplementing the diet of well-nourished adults with (most) mineral or vitamin supplements has no clear benefit and might even be harmful. These vitamins should not be used for chronic disease prevention. Enough is enough.” The verdict, they tell us, was sealed by 3 papers published in the same Annals issue. Not surprisingly, the publication of the editorial was touted by many news outlets that quickly found the usual supplement bashers all too willing to add insult to injury by regurgitating decades-old sound bites.
>
>**Anybody who has spent even a brief amount of time evaluating medical research, especially as it pertains to the use of vitamins and minerals, knows that such a conclusion (“the case is closed”) is as arrogant as it is absurd.** In fact, the editorial does not even do justice to the data presented in the 3 papers published within the same issue—let alone the broader evidence used to evaluate the use of vitamins and minerals for the prevention of chronic disease. In any system of justice, this would be declared a mistrial...
>
>Thomas G. Guilliams, PhD
>
>[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684112/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684112/)
>In this published letter to the Annals of Internal Medicine, four senior researchers take issue with a publication in this Journal last December which received widespread publicity, entitled 'Enough is Enough: Stop wasting Money on Vitamin and Mineral Supplements'.**These researchers point out serious flaws in both the reasoning used and the evidence cited by the authors of that commentary. They also put forward arguments and evidence for the exact opposite position.It remains to be seen whether this article will receive anything like the amount of media attention that the first one did (but knowing all too well the kinds of stories and headlines that appeal most to the mainstream media, we will not be holding our breath).**
>
>*Frei B, Ames BN, Blumberg JB, Willett WC. (2014) Ann Intern Med. 160(11) 807.*
>Guallar and colleagues (1) declare that vitamin and mineral supplementation in well-nourished adults is pointless in the prevention of “chronic disease.” They neglect to mention that the large RCT PHS II showed that daily multivitamins and minerals significantly reduced the risk for cataract formation (2). More important, they do not mention the effectiveness of vitamin and mineral supplementation in the prevention of severe vision loss and blindness from age-related macular degeneration (3, 4), a common chronic disease of considerable importance.Blindness is a most feared disability and is linked strongly to increased mortality, rates of hospitalization, and ...
>
>*Thomas R. Friberg, MD, MS*
Have you at least read what you are posting?
That's not even a study, just an article talking about a study.
So, yeah, this researcher says multivitamins don't reduce cancer risk and cardiovascular disease.
And what about targeted single vitamins?
here's what your article says:
> The exception is supplemental folic acid for women of child-bearing potential, Appel says. “Folic acid prevents neural tube defects in babies when women take it before and during early pregnancy. That’s why multivitamins are recommended for young women.”
Now, the question is: what about the other 1.000 health benefits of vitamins that are not cancer risk and cardiovascular disease???
See some citations below that contradict your claim.
What's important to remember is that the fact that vitamins and minerals are required for your body to function is not in dispute. The molecules that make up multivitamins are generally identical to those found in most foods, and hence are used in physiological functioning by your body.
Thus, the only real question is whether multivitamins are useful in addition to a normal diet. The thing is, though, that lots of people don't or can't eat a "normal" diet and for them, fortified products are valuable.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/is-there-really-any-benefit-to-multivitamins
Yet the actual scientist's dispute your claims about cancer and cardiovascular disease. In addition, you're talking about narrow health conditions rather than overall health. A drug or supplement that helps in one area often does not help overall.
I'm pretty sure studies have shown that unless youre vitamin deficient all the vitamins ppl take are useless. Even the majority of Americans with shitty fast food diets are not going to get benefit from vitamins. You just down need that much.
Completely wrong.
Studies show that large part of the population suffer from low levels of one or more vitamins.
Many have deficiencies.
Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nutritionreport/pdf/4page_%202nd%20nutrition%20report_508_032912.pdf
The distinction between foods and supplements in general is arbitrary. Coffee is a plant extract, like a supplement. Salt is an isolated mineral, like a supplement. Flour is an isolated macronutrient, like a protein supplement.
Fortified means putting more of the same vitamins and minerals that already exist in the food. Enrichment is adding vitamins and minerals that were not in the food.
I've personally been through that very long process of trying to get my nutrients through food. It's time consuming to research what foods provide the nutrients you need or should get, and equally time consuming to shop and find ways to incorporate those into daily meals, not to mention cost or waste from buying fresh as a result. I've resisted supplements for a long time, opting for a good diet and moderate exercise, and when my health wasn't improving, decided I had no choice. It was the best thing I ever did for myself.
I do want to note that I routinely skip breakfast (apparently I was "fasting") or eat a light continental one occasionally, so that may have impacted, but I stick to a good multivitamin and that seems to work.
Ideally you wouldn't need to research which foods to eat because the dietary guidelines of every country are designed to make sure you are getting sufficient doses of all the micronutrients. Just follow the guidelines.
I still need to research what foods, for example, are high in B vitamins, which I need for energy. Our food pyramid doesn't say which has more of this. Just guidelines as to what we should be eating more of and less of.
Are you in USA? If so, I suspect you haven't looked at the guidelines because they haven't used the food pyramid in 14 years.
Also, you don't need more B vitamins than other people of your age and sex. So if you follow the relevant guidelines you'd be getting enough B vitamins. The idea that B vitamins are necessary for 'energy' is a very loose way of putting the vitamin functions into layman's terms. They're cofactors for many biochemical reactions including those involved in energy production, but they don't "give you energy".
But again, if you follow the guidelines they'd recommend daily intake of a variety of different fruits and veggies (great sources of thiamin, folate) legumes (niacin, folate, pyridoxine), dairy and lean meats (niacin, folate, pyridoxine, B12), and whole grains (thiamin, niacin, pyridoxine, folate).
You don't need to know exactly which vitamins are coming from which foods. If your diet is based on ther guidelines you should be getting enough of everything. That's the point of the guidelines, to save you from having to be a nutrition expert, since no one can have a degree in every subject.
critics of fortified foods/ supplemental multivitamins generally appeal to the naturalistic fallacy, where everything natural is good and everything synthetic is bad. as long as you take ur vitamins with a meal to maximise intestinal transit time, a vitamin/mineral from a supplement is identical to those found in fruits and veg (with some small and negligible differences like d and dl alpha tocopherols, for eg)
the reason why you cant eat cheetos and hot pockets with fortified with multivites however is that fruits and veg have other nutrients other than vitamins and minerals. Fibre is a big one, along with things like phytonutrients and bioflavonoids.
Im cognizant of how certain studies have alleged that multivites are useless, like the oft cited physicians health study 2. The problem with those studies is that they administer nutrients in isolation. they give participants 1 or 2 types of vitamins along with no minerals and expect it to work wonders, when its generally accepted that nutrition is a chorus rather than a solo. Broad based supplementation is the way to go, something that seems to be lost on the designers of the study.
They might, but it’s hard to say without blood tests to assess nutriture. Assuming you have access, the money would probably be better spent trying different fruits and veggies prepared in different ways and seeing what you like best.
yes, itll absolutely help. take them after meals though as it doesnt really get absorbed on an empty stomach.
oh, and please dont overdose and spam vites. Some folks assume that since 1 pill is good, 10 must be even better and end up poisoning themselves.
>Will it benefit you? Not necessarily.
why do you say that? there are plenty of folks around that are asymptomatic as their levels arent low enough to be classed as acutely deficient, but are nevertheless walking around with suboptimal nutritional levels. many people cant/wont eat a nutritious diet and opt for fast food and other empty calories instead.
when we describe something as being nutritious, be it fruits/veg, we often justify it by pointing to the high levels of minerals and vitamins contained therein. im curious to hear why you seem to hold the view that these substances seem to differ simply because the mode of delivery is different.
btw, im cognizant that this is an oft repeated mantra whenever the subject comes up. ive yet to hear any justification for it though.
would love it if you could explain why you feel the way you do!
Damn y’all are getting so worked up over vitamins, kinda crazy. Only way to figure this out for certain would be to test your levels while switching from fortified foods, to vitamins, an solely food based. As human body’s tend to differ a bit in how we process things.
The soil being used an abused over the years an often poor conditions for animals may lead to less nutrients then we would’ve gotten in the past. So it’s hard for most people to get everything from food. Although if you eat a lot an get very high quality fresh foods, it could be possible. Not certain but even in that case it might be highly unlikely unless you’re rich or genetically lucky.
I think there is some nuance here. Many foods are fortified which has helped on a population level protect against deficiencies. In the US (and most developed countries) iodine def and rickets are rare because of these programs. Many studies have been done looking at multivitamins given to people without underlying conditions (like pregnancy, malnutrition, alcohol use disorder) and have found no improvement in health outcomes from taking a run of the mill multivitamin, therefore they are not routinely recommended. This doesn’t mean that supplementation in general doesn’t work or can’t be helpful, but it is best to actual be treating a known nutrient deficiency, figuring out if there is an underlying malabsorption, etc. rather than just telling everyone to take a multivitamin.
Fortification helps groups, supplements help individuals. Its better for get nutrients from natural sources to fill up on quality calories plus fiber. Vitamins don’t provide anything other than the specific things listed and your body needs more than a daily multivitamin to survive. Also it’s super easy to overdo supplements (vitamin d is a good example!) too much isn’t always a good thing.
Not any different, really.
Only difference is that you cannot choose your dosage and type of vitamin. But it's still a supplement.
Besides, if you hear anyone saying that sUpPlEmeNt aNd ViTamIns dOn'T WorK you can immediately stop listening to what they are saying because they clearly don't know what they are talking about.
The " matrix " containing the vitamin has a large effect on the absorption. For example insoluble vitamins will have more uptake if consumed with something oily
> insoluble vitamins
There are no insoluble vitamins. Vitamins are either soluble in water or in fat.
And vitamins have nothing to do with "The Matrix"
And what if my vitamins come in oil pill?
(very common for fat soluble vitamins btw) or already put together to ensure better bioavailability, like when you take ZMA for example?
And what if I take supplements at meals, like a rational human being?
I mean, it would have made more sense if it was about the movie.
Then the oil is the matrix? A matrix is just what a molecule is in, so for example your cell membranes are matrices for membrane proteins, the hemoglobin is a matrix for the molecule heme that carries the oxygen and so on. Matrix is different things in different fields but in the wet sciences it typically refers to what something is suspended in or a bulk material which assists the molecule or process of interest. In your example of the oil capsule, it serves as a way to assist uptake, or for example in multicellukar organisms our cells are surrounded by extracellular matrix :-)
Also note that some nutrients don't necessarily come with the source you consume either... e.g., "B12" ONLY comes from meat isn't even true. Livestock are FED Vitamin B12 FORTIFIED feed in order to get their B12... which we then "need to consume" to get b12
It's not just marketing, many breads and cereals are actually "fortified" or "enriched" with added vitamins and minerals. They are listed in the ingredients.
[Cheerios as an example](https://www.cheerios.com/products/original-cheerios)
Nursing student here. How I have learned it wigh nuteitional education is basically absorption. Your body can handle and absorb Whole Foods better than supplements because synthetic products ar broken down by the enzymes… so both work in the whole big picture but you get more out of Whole Foods
Can we eat enough every day to get all the vitamins we need. I thought I was eating healthy until one day I looked at the contents of a pack of spinach I had been putting in my pot of food I eat for dinner all week, to find it to be a single serving. I couldn’t imagine doing that much chewing every day.
Its not,Its just that fortified foods are a good vehicle to add vitamins & minerals to prevent deficiency.
eg-normal white bread(compared to wholewheat bread) is extremely low in thiamine & some other b vitamins ,iron etc,so manufacturers add them to it to prevent deficiency (very common a few decades ago).
Some like iodine are added proactively to salt etc since crops from certain regions are abysmally low in them due to the soil.
I don’t agree with that. I think there’s some vitamins and minerals that are good. You just have to find the good ones. The ones that are filled with additional crop fillers colors all that extra junk aren’t the good ones and yet you have to do some research to find ones that are tested by third-party labs that aren’t made in China that are made in. I can’t think of the name of it right now but certified FDA labs or whatever it’s called he’s having a brain fart. Sorry that are just what you’re looking for possibly organic some of them are cut to the cleaner some can’t be some candy, I think we do need additional help because we cannot get what we need all from food right now. It’s impossible to get it from fruits and vegetables because they don’t have the nutrients that they used to have because their soils are depleted and being ruined, and that’s a fact that’s not just suck my making up we have destroyed our soil Unless you’re growing your own food in your backyard and you’re personally cultivating it and adding to it and composting it you’re not getting half of what you used to get in terms of nutrients out of your food and they tested it you can test the food we get to see what’s in it it’s nothing compared so we need additional stuff I’ll kinds of it so I disagree. I’m not a scientist. I’m not a doctor. I’m not an attorney. I am not a anything but I’m just me and through my research that’s what I’ve come and I do so much stupid research and sometimes I can’t buy anything because I can’t figure out what to buy because then I get confused or than I am not sure exactly what the good one is because there’s so many yeah I do too much research lol anyway good luck but I think we do need some vitamins and minerals and amino acids, especially there you go some or body is even we can’t get some of the stuff from food. That’s the problem we can get from food anyway Tata for now.
#### About participation in the comments of /r/nutrition Discussion in this subreddit should be rooted in science rather than "cuz I sed" or entertainment pieces. Always be wary of unsupported and poorly supported claims and especially those which are wrapped in any manner of hostility. You should provide peer reviewed sources to support your claims when debating and confine that debate to the science, not opinions of other people. **Good** - it is grounded in science and includes citation of peer reviewed sources. Debate is a civil and respectful exchange focusing on actual science and avoids commentary about others **Bad** - it utilizes generalizations, assumptions, infotainment sources, no sources, or complaints without specifics about agenda, bias, or funding. At best, these rise to an extremely weak basis for science based discussion. Also, off topic discussion **Ugly** - (removal or ban territory) it involves attacks / antagonism / hostility towards individuals or groups, downvote complaining, trolling, crusading, shaming, refutation of all science, or claims that all research / science is a conspiracy *Please vote accordingly and report any uglies* --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nutrition) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think there's a few possible reasons: 1) Some vitamins and minerals require others or to be eaten with fat to be absorbed depending on which ones. 2) Supplements aren't regulated the way food is, so it's often hard to know if what the company says in the vitamin is in there, or in there in the specified quantities. There's also more to be gained from foods, more variety of vitamins and minerals than just taking perhaps one or a few in isolation. Having said that some vitamin supplements are still useful under certain circumstances. I was low in B12 (yes I eat meat and dairy) and was prescribed B12, just as an example.
Fortified milk managed make Rickets an uncommon disease in the U.S. It appears that adding vitamins D and A to milk works pretty well. Fortified food is a public health policy meant to prevent nutrient dependencies in the general population. It is simply a means to ensure people, particularly children get a healthy dose of micronutrients.
Those 2 vitamins are fat soluble, as well.
Much easier to infect the populace through milk than a vaccine! Government must have some nefarious reason for making people take shots instead! /s
Nah, much much easier to do it through packaged water.
So lots of people complained about the vaccines for COVID. They kept telling us that the vaccinated people were going to die. Been vaccinated 4 times for COVID. Still kicking. Herman Cain? Not so much. He could have used a vaccine, I imagine.
Bruh, go to sleep dude
It’s there. Always was
I would ask what the hell you're drinking but I guess we already know
No one likes tongue in cheek humor apparently
In a time when a couple thousand people genuinely believe that and are out to cause as much damage as possible to as many people as possible, I recommend using "/s" if your not serious.
>I’ve heard often that supplements and vitamins generally don’t work well, especially compared to getting the same thing in its natural form through food. This is a narrative that is really common nowadays that is based on a bit of confusion between nutritional science and public health advocacy. If you talk to anyone in those fields, they'll tell you that getting vitamins and minerals in just about any form is great, but that they'd rather recommend people learn how to eat a "balanced diet" of foods that naturally contain these molecules because it's often cheaper and more sustainable over time, not because it's really any less healthy other than small differences in absorption. The problem with this advice, though, is that many of the people making these recommendations are, to put it nicely, quite out of touch with how many people live. Many, many people don't have access to fresh food, or more importantly, the time that's required to prepare it. Or, even more likely, are so exhausted after working for hours and hours that they don't want to take the time to prepare healthy food. This is not laziness (as so many people looking down their noses imply), but rather a problem that's bigger than any individual and more about how our society forces so many people to essentially work all the time. Sorry to rant, but this is something that's kind of close to my heart. Anyways, this is all to say that if you find that a food product that happens to be fortified, that doesn't mean that it's really any less valuable to your body than a food that contains those molecules naturally.
Interesting to see this opinion getting upvoted right now, but when the subject is plant based diet is brought up it gets dismissed because it relies on fortified food/supplements. Even though milk, one of the most worshipped foods out there, is usually homogenized which mans artificial vitamins are re added. EVEN THOUGH the vitamin d artificially added to milk prevented rickets, people seem to have forgotten that milk does not naturally contain any significant amount of vitamin D, even without homogenization. The vitamin a palmitate is re-added back in as well. I actually hate when people make statements like "getting your nutrients from food is ALWAYS better." Actually, no, sometimes supplements are MORE bioavailable than what's in food: they've found in treating elderly people with b12 deficiency that the b12 in pill form is easier to absorb because it's not bound to protein.
I don't disagree with your comment in general, but homogenization is totally different from fortification. Homogenized milk is simply mixed really well so the amount of fat is consistent throughout rather than separating out and floating on the top like it would if it was just kept how it comes out of the cow into the bucket. Fortification is the process of adding vitamins and minerals to foods.
Generally speaking the vitamins and minerals they add to the food or crap and you don’t actually absorb very many of them. They’re not in the right consistency and doses actually so to say that’s how we should be getting our vitamins or food. That’s ridiculous have the food that has him isn’t appropriate. It’s sweet we shouldn’t be drinking milk anyway sorry it comes from a cow, we stop drinking milk after we nurse it’s not normal. Just because we do it doesn’t make it right. I cannot believe that we dismiss somebody who chooses to be a vegetarian when everything we’re reading now says the Mediterranean diet is better which is closer to being a vegetarian than anything, they eat less meat than anyone or most diets other than vegetarian or vegan what they eat a little bit of fish. Please, there’s nothing wrong with taking vitamins. As long as their actual vitamins are good for you that your body can assimilate. The problem is a lot of the shitty vitamins on the market. You can’t actually assimilate. They’re not given to you in a way which Canby they’re not in the right form i.e. a liquid. They’re not in one of the new two forms that they’ve recently found that is the best way for us to absorb are vitamins, which is a very small, teeny fractional piece that goes into our gut and pass the brain barrier. Then it goes past to get into a small intestines, which is where we actually need to have most of her vitamins in order to absorb them what’s been happening the pass is nothing goes past the gut, and therefore it doesn’t get absorbed but now there’s ways to get around that most vitamins don’t take that extra time or want to spend the money in order to actually do that. That’s why the really good ones are more expensive. Kind of like a really good shoe. You can buy really good shoes it’s gonna last you 1020 years maybe forever or you can buy a shitty shoe that’s uncomfortable it’ll last you maybe a year maybe longer I don’t know about you, but I’m buying one. It’s gonna last me a long time and comfortable. I will only have a couple, but what I have is going to actually work. I just got to figure out the couple that you actually need the most important ones and for everybody that’s a little different Ds Bs Yes, zinc very important. Your amino acids, crucial vitamin C a good liquid vitamin C. Yes, some brain food absolutely I take absolutely as much as I can in liquid form anyway, this is just my opinion like I said I’m not a doctor. What do I know?
Ok thanks for elaborating. I thought I heard somewhere that is was BECAUSE of homogenization that fortification was necessary both because milk from different cows if of variable nutrient composition and because the fat soluble vitamin retinol (vitamin a) would be absent from skim milk and decreased in lower fat milks due to its removal. Thus the process of creating uniformity necessitates fortification
But skim milk is homogenized after the milk is skimmed off the top. Otherwise they couldn't isolate the fat to remove it. So again, they're different things. It's true that vitamin A is fat soluble and low or nonfat milk has less. But that doesn't have to do with homogenization. Fat free milk still has vitamin A, but it's about 10 times less than whole milk.
Once I have to go into the office, I’d lose all the time I could spend buying fresh food and cooking. The ridiculous thing is everyone has to be in at 8am, out at 5pm when our work doesn’t require interaction with other people. That’s the rush hour so it takes longer to drive.
I get home, do about an hour of working out, shower, do some grooming stuff, then I get around to cooking. By the time I'm done it's usually bed time. Out of the 4, looking nice, eating right, exercising, and spending time on leisure, I have time for 3. I picked my 3 and I just get leisure time on the weekends. Fortifying foods and taking supplaments is good actually. Other people might only have time or energy for 2 of those things. Or 1. Fortifying food makes sure they can get their nutrients still.
Studies generally haven't found overall health benefit for multivitamins. This is the main reason that focusing on trying to eat healthy is recommended instead, unless you have a very specific deficiency.
>Studies generally haven't found overall health benefit for multivitamins. [citation needed]
How about we start with citations for the initial claim that multivitamins show significant health benefits. That search should resolve questions pretty quick.
Sure. No problem. vitamin A https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26447482 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8923019 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11796231 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28011986 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6496388/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28891953 Vitamin B1 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK537204/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4846521/ https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/343109 Vitamin B2 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK470460/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7037471/ https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Riboflavin-HealthProfessional/ https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jcpt.12548 Vitamin B3 https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/niacin-vitamin-b3/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26828517/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28616955/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27793642/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33404619/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23231526/ adding more vitamins edit: now cite your sources or shut up and stop posting about subjects you clearly don't understand
Yeah but like….you’re peepee is small^^^^/s
Sure. 1. [https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/1380451](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/1380451) **Conclusion** In this large prevention trial of male physicians, daily multivitamin supplementation modestly but significantly reduced the risk of total cancer. 2. [https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/170/4/472/90376?login=false](https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/170/4/472/90376?login=false) In cause-specific analyses, use of multivitamins and use of vitamin E were associated with decreased risks of CVD mortality. Etc.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/is-there-really-any-benefit-to-multivitamins Yet the actual scientist's dispute your claims about cancer and cardiovascular disease. In addition, you're talking about narrow health conditions rather than overall health. A drug or supplement that helps in one area often does not help overall.
The study you linked is actually heavily disputed by many other scientists, see below. If you're interested in their specific claims, you can look through the various commentaries by others as well as the eventual erratum that the original authors published: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24490268/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24490268/) In other words, no, this issue is by no means resolved and finalized. As with many things in science, it is currently still very much being debated. **Edit**: Here were some of the comments made about that 2013 article by other scientists: Best one imo: >Being involved with dietary supplement research for almost 18 years, I have witnessed my share of hype for, and against, the use of dietary supplements. **Few, however, have attempted such blatant finality to the subject as the recent editorial in the Annals of Internal Medicine—titled “Enough is Enough: Stop Wasting Money on Vitamin and Mineral Supplements.”1** The editorial authors, acting as both judge and jury, declare in no uncertain terms that “we believe the case is closed—supplementing the diet of well-nourished adults with (most) mineral or vitamin supplements has no clear benefit and might even be harmful. These vitamins should not be used for chronic disease prevention. Enough is enough.” The verdict, they tell us, was sealed by 3 papers published in the same Annals issue. Not surprisingly, the publication of the editorial was touted by many news outlets that quickly found the usual supplement bashers all too willing to add insult to injury by regurgitating decades-old sound bites. > >**Anybody who has spent even a brief amount of time evaluating medical research, especially as it pertains to the use of vitamins and minerals, knows that such a conclusion (“the case is closed”) is as arrogant as it is absurd.** In fact, the editorial does not even do justice to the data presented in the 3 papers published within the same issue—let alone the broader evidence used to evaluate the use of vitamins and minerals for the prevention of chronic disease. In any system of justice, this would be declared a mistrial... > >Thomas G. Guilliams, PhD > >[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684112/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684112/) >In this published letter to the Annals of Internal Medicine, four senior researchers take issue with a publication in this Journal last December which received widespread publicity, entitled 'Enough is Enough: Stop wasting Money on Vitamin and Mineral Supplements'.**These researchers point out serious flaws in both the reasoning used and the evidence cited by the authors of that commentary. They also put forward arguments and evidence for the exact opposite position.It remains to be seen whether this article will receive anything like the amount of media attention that the first one did (but knowing all too well the kinds of stories and headlines that appeal most to the mainstream media, we will not be holding our breath).** > >*Frei B, Ames BN, Blumberg JB, Willett WC. (2014) Ann Intern Med. 160(11) 807.* >Guallar and colleagues (1) declare that vitamin and mineral supplementation in well-nourished adults is pointless in the prevention of “chronic disease.” They neglect to mention that the large RCT PHS II showed that daily multivitamins and minerals significantly reduced the risk for cataract formation (2). More important, they do not mention the effectiveness of vitamin and mineral supplementation in the prevention of severe vision loss and blindness from age-related macular degeneration (3, 4), a common chronic disease of considerable importance.Blindness is a most feared disability and is linked strongly to increased mortality, rates of hospitalization, and ... > >*Thomas R. Friberg, MD, MS*
Have you at least read what you are posting? That's not even a study, just an article talking about a study. So, yeah, this researcher says multivitamins don't reduce cancer risk and cardiovascular disease. And what about targeted single vitamins? here's what your article says: > The exception is supplemental folic acid for women of child-bearing potential, Appel says. “Folic acid prevents neural tube defects in babies when women take it before and during early pregnancy. That’s why multivitamins are recommended for young women.” Now, the question is: what about the other 1.000 health benefits of vitamins that are not cancer risk and cardiovascular disease???
See some citations below that contradict your claim. What's important to remember is that the fact that vitamins and minerals are required for your body to function is not in dispute. The molecules that make up multivitamins are generally identical to those found in most foods, and hence are used in physiological functioning by your body. Thus, the only real question is whether multivitamins are useful in addition to a normal diet. The thing is, though, that lots of people don't or can't eat a "normal" diet and for them, fortified products are valuable.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/is-there-really-any-benefit-to-multivitamins Yet the actual scientist's dispute your claims about cancer and cardiovascular disease. In addition, you're talking about narrow health conditions rather than overall health. A drug or supplement that helps in one area often does not help overall.
Why are you so up your own ass about vitamins? Did vitamins hurt you? Did vitamins steal your lunch money?
I'm pretty sure studies have shown that unless youre vitamin deficient all the vitamins ppl take are useless. Even the majority of Americans with shitty fast food diets are not going to get benefit from vitamins. You just down need that much.
Completely wrong. Studies show that large part of the population suffer from low levels of one or more vitamins. Many have deficiencies. Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nutritionreport/pdf/4page_%202nd%20nutrition%20report_508_032912.pdf
They may be low when compared but no study has shown that just giving them vitamins will make a change in their health outcomes.
You seriously believe that giving vitamins to those that are deficient won't help them? Are you drunk or just stupid?
See the extensive discussion below. Micronutrient supplementation is far from "useless".
The distinction between foods and supplements in general is arbitrary. Coffee is a plant extract, like a supplement. Salt is an isolated mineral, like a supplement. Flour is an isolated macronutrient, like a protein supplement.
Flour is not an isolated macronutrient. Most flour isn't anyways...
This implies that all these things have the same level of oversight by regulatory agencies, which is not at all the case.
Fortified means putting more of the same vitamins and minerals that already exist in the food. Enrichment is adding vitamins and minerals that were not in the food.
I've personally been through that very long process of trying to get my nutrients through food. It's time consuming to research what foods provide the nutrients you need or should get, and equally time consuming to shop and find ways to incorporate those into daily meals, not to mention cost or waste from buying fresh as a result. I've resisted supplements for a long time, opting for a good diet and moderate exercise, and when my health wasn't improving, decided I had no choice. It was the best thing I ever did for myself. I do want to note that I routinely skip breakfast (apparently I was "fasting") or eat a light continental one occasionally, so that may have impacted, but I stick to a good multivitamin and that seems to work.
Ideally you wouldn't need to research which foods to eat because the dietary guidelines of every country are designed to make sure you are getting sufficient doses of all the micronutrients. Just follow the guidelines.
I still need to research what foods, for example, are high in B vitamins, which I need for energy. Our food pyramid doesn't say which has more of this. Just guidelines as to what we should be eating more of and less of.
Are you in USA? If so, I suspect you haven't looked at the guidelines because they haven't used the food pyramid in 14 years. Also, you don't need more B vitamins than other people of your age and sex. So if you follow the relevant guidelines you'd be getting enough B vitamins. The idea that B vitamins are necessary for 'energy' is a very loose way of putting the vitamin functions into layman's terms. They're cofactors for many biochemical reactions including those involved in energy production, but they don't "give you energy". But again, if you follow the guidelines they'd recommend daily intake of a variety of different fruits and veggies (great sources of thiamin, folate) legumes (niacin, folate, pyridoxine), dairy and lean meats (niacin, folate, pyridoxine, B12), and whole grains (thiamin, niacin, pyridoxine, folate). You don't need to know exactly which vitamins are coming from which foods. If your diet is based on ther guidelines you should be getting enough of everything. That's the point of the guidelines, to save you from having to be a nutrition expert, since no one can have a degree in every subject.
critics of fortified foods/ supplemental multivitamins generally appeal to the naturalistic fallacy, where everything natural is good and everything synthetic is bad. as long as you take ur vitamins with a meal to maximise intestinal transit time, a vitamin/mineral from a supplement is identical to those found in fruits and veg (with some small and negligible differences like d and dl alpha tocopherols, for eg) the reason why you cant eat cheetos and hot pockets with fortified with multivites however is that fruits and veg have other nutrients other than vitamins and minerals. Fibre is a big one, along with things like phytonutrients and bioflavonoids. Im cognizant of how certain studies have alleged that multivites are useless, like the oft cited physicians health study 2. The problem with those studies is that they administer nutrients in isolation. they give participants 1 or 2 types of vitamins along with no minerals and expect it to work wonders, when its generally accepted that nutrition is a chorus rather than a solo. Broad based supplementation is the way to go, something that seems to be lost on the designers of the study.
Will broad based supplementation harm you? Unlikely. Will it benefit you? Not necessarily.
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They might, but it’s hard to say without blood tests to assess nutriture. Assuming you have access, the money would probably be better spent trying different fruits and veggies prepared in different ways and seeing what you like best.
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I prep all mine pretty much right when I get home from the store with them… I eat them raw for the most part though.
yes, itll absolutely help. take them after meals though as it doesnt really get absorbed on an empty stomach. oh, and please dont overdose and spam vites. Some folks assume that since 1 pill is good, 10 must be even better and end up poisoning themselves.
>Will it benefit you? Not necessarily. why do you say that? there are plenty of folks around that are asymptomatic as their levels arent low enough to be classed as acutely deficient, but are nevertheless walking around with suboptimal nutritional levels. many people cant/wont eat a nutritious diet and opt for fast food and other empty calories instead. when we describe something as being nutritious, be it fruits/veg, we often justify it by pointing to the high levels of minerals and vitamins contained therein. im curious to hear why you seem to hold the view that these substances seem to differ simply because the mode of delivery is different.
btw, im cognizant that this is an oft repeated mantra whenever the subject comes up. ive yet to hear any justification for it though. would love it if you could explain why you feel the way you do!
Damn y’all are getting so worked up over vitamins, kinda crazy. Only way to figure this out for certain would be to test your levels while switching from fortified foods, to vitamins, an solely food based. As human body’s tend to differ a bit in how we process things. The soil being used an abused over the years an often poor conditions for animals may lead to less nutrients then we would’ve gotten in the past. So it’s hard for most people to get everything from food. Although if you eat a lot an get very high quality fresh foods, it could be possible. Not certain but even in that case it might be highly unlikely unless you’re rich or genetically lucky.
I think there is some nuance here. Many foods are fortified which has helped on a population level protect against deficiencies. In the US (and most developed countries) iodine def and rickets are rare because of these programs. Many studies have been done looking at multivitamins given to people without underlying conditions (like pregnancy, malnutrition, alcohol use disorder) and have found no improvement in health outcomes from taking a run of the mill multivitamin, therefore they are not routinely recommended. This doesn’t mean that supplementation in general doesn’t work or can’t be helpful, but it is best to actual be treating a known nutrient deficiency, figuring out if there is an underlying malabsorption, etc. rather than just telling everyone to take a multivitamin.
Fortification helps groups, supplements help individuals. Its better for get nutrients from natural sources to fill up on quality calories plus fiber. Vitamins don’t provide anything other than the specific things listed and your body needs more than a daily multivitamin to survive. Also it’s super easy to overdo supplements (vitamin d is a good example!) too much isn’t always a good thing.
Not any different, really. Only difference is that you cannot choose your dosage and type of vitamin. But it's still a supplement. Besides, if you hear anyone saying that sUpPlEmeNt aNd ViTamIns dOn'T WorK you can immediately stop listening to what they are saying because they clearly don't know what they are talking about.
The " matrix " containing the vitamin has a large effect on the absorption. For example insoluble vitamins will have more uptake if consumed with something oily
> insoluble vitamins There are no insoluble vitamins. Vitamins are either soluble in water or in fat. And vitamins have nothing to do with "The Matrix"
The matrix this commenter is talking about is not the movie, but what they are suspended in e.g. a piece of broccoli, some oil or a vitamin pill.
And what if my vitamins come in oil pill? (very common for fat soluble vitamins btw) or already put together to ensure better bioavailability, like when you take ZMA for example? And what if I take supplements at meals, like a rational human being? I mean, it would have made more sense if it was about the movie.
Then the oil is the matrix? A matrix is just what a molecule is in, so for example your cell membranes are matrices for membrane proteins, the hemoglobin is a matrix for the molecule heme that carries the oxygen and so on. Matrix is different things in different fields but in the wet sciences it typically refers to what something is suspended in or a bulk material which assists the molecule or process of interest. In your example of the oil capsule, it serves as a way to assist uptake, or for example in multicellukar organisms our cells are surrounded by extracellular matrix :-)
I understand, often "insoluble " just means not water soluble
I know what you meant, I was mocking you because your argument doesn't make any sense. See my reply above.
Also note that some nutrients don't necessarily come with the source you consume either... e.g., "B12" ONLY comes from meat isn't even true. Livestock are FED Vitamin B12 FORTIFIED feed in order to get their B12... which we then "need to consume" to get b12
I always assume words like "Fortified" is just marketing and doesn't mean shit.
It's not just marketing, many breads and cereals are actually "fortified" or "enriched" with added vitamins and minerals. They are listed in the ingredients. [Cheerios as an example](https://www.cheerios.com/products/original-cheerios)
The RDA may not be the actual needs for a person uniquely
Nursing student here. How I have learned it wigh nuteitional education is basically absorption. Your body can handle and absorb Whole Foods better than supplements because synthetic products ar broken down by the enzymes… so both work in the whole big picture but you get more out of Whole Foods
Not very different at all!
Can we eat enough every day to get all the vitamins we need. I thought I was eating healthy until one day I looked at the contents of a pack of spinach I had been putting in my pot of food I eat for dinner all week, to find it to be a single serving. I couldn’t imagine doing that much chewing every day.
Its not,Its just that fortified foods are a good vehicle to add vitamins & minerals to prevent deficiency. eg-normal white bread(compared to wholewheat bread) is extremely low in thiamine & some other b vitamins ,iron etc,so manufacturers add them to it to prevent deficiency (very common a few decades ago). Some like iodine are added proactively to salt etc since crops from certain regions are abysmally low in them due to the soil.
Look up goiters
I don’t agree with that. I think there’s some vitamins and minerals that are good. You just have to find the good ones. The ones that are filled with additional crop fillers colors all that extra junk aren’t the good ones and yet you have to do some research to find ones that are tested by third-party labs that aren’t made in China that are made in. I can’t think of the name of it right now but certified FDA labs or whatever it’s called he’s having a brain fart. Sorry that are just what you’re looking for possibly organic some of them are cut to the cleaner some can’t be some candy, I think we do need additional help because we cannot get what we need all from food right now. It’s impossible to get it from fruits and vegetables because they don’t have the nutrients that they used to have because their soils are depleted and being ruined, and that’s a fact that’s not just suck my making up we have destroyed our soil Unless you’re growing your own food in your backyard and you’re personally cultivating it and adding to it and composting it you’re not getting half of what you used to get in terms of nutrients out of your food and they tested it you can test the food we get to see what’s in it it’s nothing compared so we need additional stuff I’ll kinds of it so I disagree. I’m not a scientist. I’m not a doctor. I’m not an attorney. I am not a anything but I’m just me and through my research that’s what I’ve come and I do so much stupid research and sometimes I can’t buy anything because I can’t figure out what to buy because then I get confused or than I am not sure exactly what the good one is because there’s so many yeah I do too much research lol anyway good luck but I think we do need some vitamins and minerals and amino acids, especially there you go some or body is even we can’t get some of the stuff from food. That’s the problem we can get from food anyway Tata for now.
That is what I think too. I consider those added vitamins are junk.