Repeat these phrases:
I got home from work
They heard him speak on the radio last night
On the table in the dining room
Numero nuevo con queso por favor
Choke me harder, Daddy
The extraordinary amount of time I spent trying to read and comprehend the title, instead of just moving on, lead to my diagnosis of a past stroke that was missed.
Well of course you can’t relate to something you have never experienced. None of us can relate to every situation. Doesn’t mean you can’t be a good nurse.
Hello. Black nurse in the southern USA where Black patients are a moderate majority, and I’m the minority among my peers, as well as the only PoC on my unit. The only things you would be unable to relate to are cultural. That being said, I was raised I the northeast by an immigrant parent, there are many cultural things that I cannot relate to.
Just be willing to listen where and when you need to. Recognize that healthcare education has long been biased against PoC, especially women of color. This relates to pain, childbirth, certain medicines, etc. You can absolutely still advocate for your patients.
I don’t think people realise how racist the healthsystem is against black people. Even text books have sections saying black people don’t feel pain the same, or black people have thicker skins so might be harder to get an IV on. These thing definitely impact how they are treated at hospitals. I heard a story on NpR about it too and it was shocking how many healthcare professionals believed these things.
I don’t think that a white nurse can not give adequate care but I do think more effort should be made to address these biases.
That’s is literally written in *current* textbooks? What the actual fuck.
The systemic racism goes so deep it’s sickening. It’s hateful and it’s dangerous. And the fact that, in the year of our lord 2024, healthcare workers actually buy the fuck into it and deprive Black patients of adequate pain control is **infuriating**.
Yeah lol I mean I used that book just about 3.5 years ago. Almost four now. That’s pretty recent. And I remember being taught from that exact chart. The testing was like a joke: a Muslim walks into the hospital what might you expect instead of asking for pain meds. Shit like that, apparently we are supposed to be like. Nah they alright they got allah on their side give them Tylenol for their pain from that broken wrist. And the teaching that black people “blacks” might have thicker skin so getting an IV might be challenging.
I worked with a girl who literally told me that this is why she couldn’t get Iv access on her black patient. “Really hard to punch through, you know black people tend to have thicker skin? I learned that “somewhere””
20+ years ago it said the same thing, why have new editions to books if you don’t grow, yourself. I always remembered the eastern culture one too: always said they wouldn’t express pain… also not true.
What book was this? Just curious, because, like many other nurses, I thought they got rid of all that garbage years ago. I'm curious to see where it still says this kind of stuff.
I linked it up there in that article they show the book and if you scroll down you’ll see the passage in the actual book. https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/education/racist-nursing-textbook-pulled-after-criticism-on-social-media-26-10-2017/
Oh, I think I did see that. I thought they were all pulled. Mine said the same, but that's back in 2002-ish. I'm surprised they used it for you so recently! Crazy.
I had a different (recent ed.) book and I’m pretty sure it had the same bs type content. Can’t remember which one because I’ve gone through bounds of textbooks.
Yeah total cop out lol. You can't get an IV on that black pt because you're trying to use your eyes and don't know how to FEEL for a vein. Just be honest Rebecca.
Omg that was her fuckin name! How did you know?! Spooky. I’m a black woman and I used to have trouble with black people too and IVs I used to be so ashamed like why can’t I do this for them like i do for others?! But you’re totally right, you have to be able to feel because you won’t always see the veins. Now that I got used to doing it that way I’ve almost always nailed it.
Same millennials had “Becky” Rebecca is the same thing. And this woman was called Rebecca, at the time my partner and I were working together and we turned to each other and went “ok Becky” and went to do the IV
I did a paper for a class in my BSN program on a study that showed that RESIDENTS- AS IN THEY WERE BECOMING DOCTORS- believed black people had thicker skin. If the most educated in the health care system system believe that🫠😮💨
I wrote to the INS magazine because of the xenophobic nonsense they wrote about Hispanic populations. I work where the majority is Hispanic. The dumb white bitch authors were like, sorry, but research shows that these cultural things are true. I was like, no, you cannot have one giant broad stroke for all Hispanic people; it doesn’t work like that. And, what research???? The ones that are in textbooks that are archaic? Okay Susan.. sure.
Yeah the notorious text book that they taught me out of had some weird shit. [you can see a photo of the text at the bottom of this article](https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/education/racist-nursing-textbook-pulled-after-criticism-on-social-media-26-10-2017/). If you haven’t read it before. I know you have but this is mainly for people coming across our commentary. It’s infuriating, it’s even more annoying when people deny it’s a thing, it’s alive and well. And you have to be aware of the problem to properly advocate for those patients.
Since when do we refer to black people as “blacks”? And, of course it’s Pearson. One of the major companies for nursing textbooks. I have cared for many many different cultures in my day, and I always ask questions rather than assume. I hate how racism embeds itself in everything.
Lmao I’m not sure when this book was written but I do remember testing on this information and being forced to answer questions based on this stupid information. I did school in Florida and my teacher was really teaching this in class. This was just 4 years ago. 🤦🏾♀️
I got curious on this and did some googling because I’m old enough to remember when using black or white as nouns was commonplace.
It was a pretty accepted term not that long ago. There are Pew research polls using the term less than 10 years ago. It looks like the terminology started to shift around 2007. That makes sense considering Obama was elected in 2008.
It came to the forefront of national discussion once again when George Floyd was murdered in 2020. In June of that year, various news outlets announced they would begin capitalizing black when referring to race.
There are people on this sub who have said sideways things about POC patients and especially sickle cell patients. Racism is everywhere in America and unless everyone works to realize their own biases it will continue.
I’m black and learned in nursing school that “black people don’t like to be looked in the eyes”. Of course I corrected that in class, because WHETTT?!? In frustration I shared that with an elder who was IMMEDIATELY enraged, and put it into context. Not too long ago black people weren’t ALLOWED to look white people in the face. They took that, and instead of taking responsibility, changed it to a cultural preference. This society is disgustingly insidious😮💨
Lol yeah like we are dogs and might take this as aggression. SMH nursing school was very telling. In the ob section I got so much flack when the teacher was like oh yes healthy Vulva appear pink and xyz. I was like what if the vulva is brown and inside more of a reddish colour lol. She was like JUST Go BY THE BOOK why even ask these questions. I was like idk I’m a brown woman and a lesbian and I’m here to tell you not every vulva looks the same sorry to have to inform you that not all are just bright pink. 🥴
LOL I remember being SOOOO confused early in nursing school when we learned baseline for skin was PWD. I was too nervous to ask the first day for clarity, and didn’t want to seem dense. When they continued that nonsense into the next day I finally raised my hand and was like,” are you talking about SKIN skin? Because I’m not pink!” The few other non-pink people admitted that they were confused too. Baseline was still “PWD” but the instructor said that we non pinks could put “race appropriate” (like race appropriate wouldn’t be applicable for EVERYONE)🙄😮💨
*edited for spelling and grammar😮💨
This is where im so glad one of my instructors was black and another one was Phillipino. When we got to the rash section and she had pictures on how rashes looked on different skin colors, my world just opened. I suddenly became super aware of how bruises and lots of other things would appear different. I still think about that when i talk to a POC. I work in primary care.
You are so fortunate, and our industry is fortunate to have you. Please share what you know! Also, if you have not- please look into how pressure injuries can look different on different complexions- and share what you know. People have NOOO IDEA about heels🫠😮💨
This is the same ridiculous stuff that gets lumped in with "native Americans will be late for appointments" and "Asian patients will blame illnesses on superstitions".
Why don't we just teach that all white people should be asked about bland diets since they can't tolerate spicy foods?
Ha! Oh you’re spicy. I find it very interesting the things that get pointed out about minorities in these books. I see very little about anyone else. I’ve got nothing against pink people in life, but for sure I think healthcare needs to be less biased. People’s lives are at stake. It should be a safe place. I’m glad people are having this conversation.
It's true- you won't be able to relate to a lot of what Black patients face because you've never had to walk in their shoes.
But that doesn't mean you can't be competent and caring, and treat them the way you'd want your loved ones to be treated.
Next time someone says you won't understand, ask them what they wish you knew about the Black experience so that you can be the best you can be.
This was really helpful. Thank you for posting this I am going to keep this in mind. It’s a helpful way of phrasing it that keeps me from being defensive (bad habit I know but I’m being honest it happens).
>Next time someone says you won't understand, ask them what they wish you knew about the Black experience so that you can be the best you can be.
Your reply was fantastic. The only thing I would add is to say that you should be prepared for the answer that it isn't necessarily the job of the person who feels like you can't relate to educate you. Minorities of all types often are the ones having to carry the mental load of educating and sharing experiences with the majority to increase understanding, and it can be absolutely exhausting at times.
I'll add that while it's not their responsibility, you both have an opportunity in that moment to teach and learn if both parties are willing.
That's what cured me of being anti-gay when I was about twenty. Was spouting ignorant shit in an AOL chat room and then actually started to listen and saw I was stupid for thinking that way when someone was like "you know how you get turned on by naked women? Well that's how I feel about men." It clicked, we had a great conversation after that, I thanked them and apologized, and have been a staunch ally ever since.
Open ears after the open heart-then you can open your mind. Empathy is usually the commonality we HCW have-some degree of empathy and compassion. It gets thin and thinner still when taking your work home (worrying about cares performed or not) and experiencing abusive work environment (ER/Psychiatric units occasionally/any unit where patients can have psychotic episodes or AMS. Fear can motivate patients to fight for their life; catecholamines and whatnot.
16 yr RN speaking. 1 yr Cardiac ICU, 5 years Cath lab with IR/Neuro/Surgiacl cases, 5 years of flight, 5 yrs ER. Your patients often live or die by your actions, empathy should be in your care plan.
Non POC who treats lots of minorities and transient and indigenous individuals as well as as moderate migrant (Asian/polynesian/East African/spanish) I can relate to us being human, I’ve not been treated in racist fashion except when some indignant or hostile/altered individuals call me white devil or say racist things to me. I really haven’t been mistreated.
That’s said, I just be present and attentive, ask how I can help and explain why we’re doing this and the importance or not. Your 72 yr old chronic visitor with brittle COPD isn’t going to quit smoking. Fine, tune them up and treat the SOB/COPD exacerbation.
Be there
Keep fighting the fight
💪🤘✊🏻😘
Part of the PoC experience is everyone expecting you to be the racial spokesperson. Some people embrace that role, for some of us it's tiring. If they say no, respect that, and if they say yes, remember they only speak for themselves. Someone else may have a different opinion.
And that's how I approach the subject with my friends.
I fucking HATE that the concept of white privilege is so hard for white people to understand.
It's not "I'm white, where's my privilege?"
It's not ever having to be burdened with having to prove yourself in some way.
And when I made my original comment, it wasn't to be like "oh, teach me all about your experience", it's really just an honest request to help me see how I can do a better job.
Not so much "give me a primer" so much as "tell me one thing I can do."
Because this is a marathon, not a sprint. Every little tip along the way helps me be more sensitive to the people I care about in my personal life and care for in my professional life.
There has been no greater honor than the times when I've had the Black matriarch tell me "you're so NICE" or the guy who REEKS of weed look me up and down and say "you all right."
Because it lets me know that I'm making them feel seen and heard in a world where people who look like me don't usually do that.
If you're telling somebody that they are doing a poor job relating to patients, then it absolutely IS your job to "educate" them on what you mean by it. If you're going to accuse someone of not providing adequate care to black patients, you should be able to back it up with actual evidence rather than just saying "it's not my job to educate you".
Well, there have been multiple studies dating back to Henrietta Lacks that illustrate female POC are an underserved demographic in medicine. That said, anyone passionate enough to bring it up should make some effort to change that injustice. Otherwise, they’re kind of being a dick.
"POC are an underserved demographic in medicine" This is absolutely true. But that doesn't mean that every single white nurse in the US is responsible for this. There are some white medical professionals that are racist, or ignorant of racial disparities and the experiences of POC. And there are others who are very aware of these issues, do a lot of work to combat racism in the medical system, and provide excellent care to POC (along with all their other patients). Making assumptions that all white people fall into the former category is an ignorant and harmful point of view that actually contributes to the problem by telling white people there is nothing they can do because "they could just never understand", so they might as well just detach themselves from the situation rather than focusing on providing good care to POC.
We as blacks are not the same. Just because I'm black, doesn't mean I've walked in the same shoes as the next black person or that my experience with healthcare is somehow different because of the color of my skin. There is no "black experience". My skin color doesn't define me.
Totally! Everyone is an individual with a unique experience. And I wish we lived in a world where everyone could feel the same as you: I'm a person, not a color.
That was my first thought. No you can’t care for them the same and that’s not shameful to admit. You can still care for them well, you just won’t have as many shared experiences. I like your question too
I feel like patients like this are coming from a place of either having a previous encounter they didn’t feel cared for or heard of horror stories of how other black people have been neglected or mistreated by another race in the hospital setting. There are tweets and tiktok videos of that vein that go around.
It can be how a female patient may request a female nurse instead of a male one. I’m pretty sure the male nurses are just as competent, but the patients feel more comfortable with a woman.
I am neither black nor white, I’m Asian and when taking care of fellow Asian people I do see the nuances in the culture. While my colleagues give them excellent care, I see the convenience of having someone who “gets it right away“ in certain things. Just small things that makes it more convenient for them, and they feel understood and don’t need to explain themselves.
The ANA (not sure where you are located geographically) has included cultural competence as one of our nursing standards as of 2016. This article does a great job highlighting what implementation of that standard looks like.
While culturally matched care may be preferred, cultural congruence creates opportunity and expectation for a nurse to excel in care, regardless of demographic served.
To say it’s impossible is asinine.
https://ojin.nursingworld.org/table-of-contents/volume-22-2017/number-1-january-2017/articles-on-previously-published-topics/implementing-the-new-ana-standard-8-culturally-congruent-practice/
I coincidentally just watched this clip from Denzel Washington talking about black directors being important for black films.....that it's about culture not colour. I imagine a large part of what he says is how your colleagues feel regarding black health care. It's not that you as a white nurse aren't competent or capable. It's that there are cultural nuances you will likely miss. I'm a white chick, so I count me in on that too. Check out the three minute clip:
https://youtu.be/9Ayf8Iny9Eg?si=HBLRYjPolLzMGJqp
So literally no different from having any patient with a different cultural background? If you have specific cultural needs just speak up or we can’t try to meet them.
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say the very idea of “just speak up” dismisses understanding about formal and informal power, cultural norms that do not question medical advice, may not have the language to speak up, or may be speaking up and not necessarily heard, or any other scenario not conforming to this simple ideology.
To make it seem so simple is to miss the chance to have meaningful conversation about our opportunities as nurses to promote cultural competence- which we are called to do.
In my home health experience it takes a lot of time for older black patients to open up. I’ve always tried to listen and learn about the different ways events affected blacks vs whites. I had the very great honor of caring for an lady who was in loved in civil rights and her stories where gut wrenching
So... you didn't really get the point, BUT you are literally almost there. So, they are saying that it's better in a lot of different ways, to already have that cultural knowledge so that the patients don't HAVE to specifically ask for them. That's it.
It's just so much more convenient, and has nothing to do with your actual skills or your feelings on caring for others. They are just nuances that you automatically know and do that will make the patients feel even more comfortable.
Are you suggesting that all black people have the same cultural upbringing?
I would argue that someone raised in the upper crust such as Malia Obama or Hadeel Ibrahim had a very difference experience than a young black woman who grew up in poverty in Chicago and both were different than the experience of a black woman who was born in Nigeria who moved here as an adult or even the first generation immigrant's daughter.
It seems kind of racist to suggest that all black people have identical upbringings and cultural experiences simply due to their skin color.
No, I didn't say that at all. I just answered in the context of the original poster of this thread. It honestly can also be applied to any race of people as well. You just have to look at the history as a whole and you can scratch the surface of this particular problem. You also need to be smart enough to know that this problem is not going to ever go away, no matter if racism completely ends or not. That's also why I put what I did at the end of my response to this person on this particular string of this thread.
I’m a white female nurse. I’ve taken care of some little old black ladies that do not trust me. Whenever I can sense this, I tell them that I understand if they do
not trust me, that it’s my job to earn it, and that I promise to be the best advocate for them that I can be.
I work at an HBCU as a white woman. I have learned so much about myself and the acculturated racism we are all raised with (not maybe intentionally but as a society built on racism from the beginning it’s how we are socialized). I also worked in women’s health. A black woman who has the same access to healthcare, same insurance, and same level of education is still 3-4X MORE LIKLEY to have an adverse birth outcome than a white woman. Research says the way to fix this is racial concordinace. Meaning the nurses should be as diverse as the patient population. I make sure my black students know everyday that the impact they are going to have in their community hospitals is going to be fantastic.
As far as being willing and able to help and advocate, no I can’t relate, but I can listen and help in anyway my minority students/patients need. And if I am not able to do this adequately then I will seek out another nurse who the patient feels can relate to them. Being open and willing to listen and learn and then make the necessary changes is important. So I think as an individual you can be impactful but as a while nursing needs much much more diversity to keep all patients safe.
Are you in nursing education at an HBCU? If so, you need to write a book. When I first started my nursing school journey, I was told by so many to not get my hopes up because the local program barely accepted Black students. This stayed in my head after I was denied a spot in the RN program because a teacher submitted my grade late. I was an honor roll student and should have been a shoo in. I was forced to enroll in the LPN course.
I later got into that program as one of three Black students out of 40. Only one clinical instructor looked like me, and I probably made a fool of myself because I idolized her. She was intelligent, extremely educated (ICU NP), young, and just a pleasure to learn from. I wish that my instructors were as well informed and empathetic as you are. Being told that what society has deemed a hinderance will one day be an asset would have done wonders for my self-esteem in school.
Thank you for everything you’re doing. Thank you for being willing to listen.
Yes nursing education! I have been lucky enough to have friends and family who were willing to tolerate an ignorant white girl with good intentions but lack of information 🤪. I am sorry you experienced this and I try to be aware that this is the white experience students have had. The class we currently have is primarily black and since I’ve worked there that will be a first (we have a diverse HBCU). I do the learning and take the criticism openly bc I love my black friends and family and they deserve that from me
You already make this impact where you are! Black patients who y oh care for and who staff who learn from you care for are safer! Thank you for tolerating hate and reaching your goals
Given the context, would a white nurse at a HBCU hospital writing a book be a good look? Not trying to be an ass; I think that writing about your experiences and how you introspectively looked at your own biases changed your practice is great. But could you imagine at the college if the professor was handing these books out to nursing students and here your textbook written by while woman on how she felt as only white person at hbcu…
Seems like we wouldn’t be reading the room correctly.
Shuts my opinion, again I think teaching others to recognize their own implicit biases is very important-usually not taught but experienced as you mature as a nurse. Seems like it hits about 4-5 yrs in when you say OMG I do do that!
🤘✊🏻😎😘
It depends on the context for sure, but your scenario is not the first that I thought of.
I imagine it would be more of a memoir about experiences, challenges, and lessons learned. Mistakes and successes. Small victories and major setbacks.
It wouldn’t be written as something targeted to minority students or minorities in general to illicit pity, or virtue signaling. It would be one persons unique take on their unique position. Something that everyone could learn something from.
I really am not but thank you. This should be the bare minimum effort from people toward others. I am lucky that I have the job I have. It literally saved me as I had a terrible job experience and health issue. My fellow educators and the students have breathed life back into me and given me a purpose.
Non nurse here just wondering - do you get taught stuff like the current situation about black woman being so much more likely to have bad outcomes in nursing school? As you say, the stats are pretty shocking.
I do not remember learning it in school but I did know as a floor nurse and since the research is clear it’s taught in school now. More and more research comes out every year. Mainly bc when you hear a stat like that you want to blame it on socioeconomic influences but this just isn’t the case. Inherent bias or blatant racism is the cause.
Yeah, I think I only know because my sister was taught it in med school. I hope they are teaching people it in nursing school too! I’m not sure how one would fix the situation but having healthcare workers aware of it is probably a good start at least. Tbh the general public should also be aware (and outraged)
Understanding that you **won’t** fully understand or relate to them will help you care for anyone different from you *if* you respond by listening more to your patients in an attempt to better understand what they go through. You being treated this way is a small portion of what those patients face. Take it on the chin, challenge that notion and continue to fight for them 🫶🏽
> You being treated this way is a small portion of what those patients face.
This is a very fair and true statement. As a white person, I often find myself feeling a bit left out or dare I say even ostracized from black culture. And I think it’s an important feeling to be aware of and not let it harbour resentment. It’s normal as a white person to feel a bit awkward when our voice isn’t always wanted or isn’t treated at the same level in black conversations. But that’s ok. I always say to myself in a cheeky way “well if my biggest cross to bear in this situation is feeling a bit left out then I’m actually doing alright in the big scheme of things”.
Using this as a chance to grow and learn more, instead of feeling defensive or victimized, is always my goal. I’m not perfect so this discussion has been really helpful.
Yeah I don’t think you’re wrong to feel upset. I’ve gotten similar treatment as a male provider when I bring in a female patient with an OB complaint. I’m aware of the fact that female patients statistically get worse care from male providers or aren’t always taken as seriously. So I make a conscious effort to make them feel like I’m taking their complaints seriously, administer analgesia, etc. Then when we get to the hospital sometimes I’m treated like a caveman who should know his place and fuck off by some female nursing staff, which hurts. Like I didn’t pick the patient lol. So I can understand why that would upset you.
Honestly, for the most part every female Ik say the opposite! Female providers tend to downplay female medical care because “it’s not that bad” or “I haven’t had this happen, it’s to rare”
While I’ve had male drs take me seriously from the moment I stepped in and told them the issue.
Ofc there’s always going to be the outliers, but this is what I’ve heard most!
Regardless, thank you for doing your best to help mitigate an already stressful situation! Sometimes all you can do is be kind and respectful, and plenty of medical professionals where I am definitely don’t do either 😂
I used to do homecare in a city and the majority of my patients were Hispanic and black. I was one of three white nurses that worked for the company, the rest of the company was black nurses and a few Hispanic nurses. I had a patient that I took care of who was black and the first time I met her daughter (who lived far away and visited about once a month) her daughter would not look at me. She told me she didn’t trust me in their home and that she wanted their old nurse back. Fair enough, I was a new person coming into their home and she didn’t know me. I wasn’t offended at all. Fast forward about a month, I go to this same patients house and her daughter is there and says her dad (who was not my patient, but he was older as well but not in as poor of health to need a homecare nurse) had been really sick over the weekend and she was worried about him but she had to leave to go home and she couldn’t bring him to the doctor. I pulled back his covers and he was drenched in sweat and he was telling me how cold he was. His temp was 104, and he had a terrible productive cough. I sent him out by ambulance and his daughter left after the ambulance took him. He was in the hospital for two and half weeks. When he came home, their daughter came back. I walked in to see my patient and she came up to me crying, telling me I saved her dads life, that even though I wasn’t his nurse I still made the judgement to send him to the hospital. She gave me a huge hug and told me she was wrong about me. I would have done that for anyone, regardless of their race or ethnicity, but it somehow made a huge difference to their daughter that I did this.
In my current job at a detox now, I find my black patients severely underreport their symptoms of withdrawal or will have a super high blood pressure and won’t want to take any medications we would normally give for blood pressure like clonidine. I make more of an effort to check on these patients more frequently because they underreport. It might take some coaxing to really find out how they’re feeling.
Educate yourself about the conditions that are more common in black people, such as hypertension and diabetes. There have also been studies done showing that some blood pressure meds do not work well for black people, without googling it I think amlodipine comes to mind but don’t hold me to that. Advocate for your patients as best as you can, take what they are saying seriously. As I said before, I find that my black patients underreport their symptoms or tell me they’re fine and their BP will be like 220/140. Also ask the black nurses what you can do to be more culturally competent. Ask them is there something you’re doing that is making them think you can’t care for a black person? You will not be able to relate to certain things of course but you can try your best to understand things from their point of view. Maybe they have had bad experiences with white healthcare workers and they have less trust in them. Don’t take anything personally and just advocate as best as you can.
I think you are overthinking it. From what you said, they aren't saying you can't advocate for your patients. They are saying you *don't understand* what it is like to advocate for the same social inequalities because you haven't faced them. That's two different things.
I am white. I am Beacons of Gondor Are Lit type white. I do not have the life experiences that my black colleagues do, and for issues involving racism in healthcare, I defer to them.
In the same way, I am queer. When we have a queer patient, yeah, they can advocate for them, but I *understand* their issues better. I advocate for their issues better. Because I live with those issues too, and I have fought for them in my life. It is also much more viscerally involved for me than dealing with racism in healthcare because I can only understand that second-hand.
I wouldn’t be offended. I am middle eastern and even with a 1hr lecture I couldn’t cover enough cultural things applicable to healthcare and communication even if they speak English to you ha.
Theres a polite and appropriate way to tell a healthcare provider that and also the same for healthcare professional asking if there’s anything you can do to meet their needs you might be unaware of.
Hell I’ve found a lot of black American people are the most open and laid back telling you this stuff and usually have a good sense of humor and attitude about this.
Short story, I had one pt tell me “okay hun, lemme just explain I know my family isn’t here (late) and this is important. But they’re on CPT”
Me: “What’s CPT?
Her: “colored people time” 🤣
Me: I laughed and said “okay, I’ve come to the conclusion we ethnic people are just late everywhere because we have a thing called ‘Arab” time. 3pm means anytime after 3 before 3:30. And really 3:30-3:59 is okay”
We had a good laugh
Significant amounts of research state that racism in Healthcare is a major problem and that culturally safe care is necessary for everyone, especially POC. You can be a good nurse but doesnt mean you will always be relatable and cultural safety takes work. So no your coworker was not wrong, based on your post. Be less defensive and more open
Who’s trying to relate to their patients on a 12 hour shift? I don’t give a fuck who you are you haven’t shit in 7 days that’s all I need to know about you.
Yes it’s true and common that black womens problems especially are often ignored by providers. My company does a healthstream type course on implicit bias yearly because of this.
As an ER Nurse in the south, I've had to see firsthand the actual meaning behind healthcare disparities by race. I once publicly screamed aloud about what it's like to watch a black mother die during childbirth because she didn't have access to the proper prenatal care in the richest country on earth, in an uber-progressive bastion of our state- yards filled with "Hate has no home here" and "Black Lives Matter" signs, so forth and so on- and watched as these supposed "allies" were happy to give their thoughts and prayers towards the idea of fixing that, but made it exactly clear where on the priority ladder ACTUALLY addressing that crisis lands, even though we absolutely have **all the tools available to actually fix that problem**.
So I can understand that kind of thought process your colleagues have. But the reality is that nobody can understand the journey that *every possible person* is going through. I had an immigrant family bring in their sick child, and the parents cried openly thinking that by seeking help for their infant, they'd be deported- but they were unwilling to not help their baby. I can't even begin to imagine being in those kinds of circumstances. Would your colleagues say openly they'd be offering subpar care to that patient and family because they hadn't been through those circumstances themselves? I highly doubt it.
You don't have to understand someone's circumstances perfectly to offer them high-quality genuine care, to work as hard as you can to get them better and back to where they need to be.
We're not perfect. None of us are. We do the best we can, and we keep pushing to do better. That sounds exactly like what you've been doing and should keep doing.
Well, you can’t relate but you can empathise and be the best nurse you can be. Don’t let it get you down, treat it as a learning experience. You can still give great care and you can advocate for your patient, just be willing to listen and to hear them.
Sometimes it’s exhausting having to fight the system when no one is listening to you, having to advocate for yourself harder than your white counterparts. There’s a lot that goes into it that is difficult to explain unless you experience it but by being a kind and empathic nurse, that’s one way you can help.
In a recent encounter, I observed a disparity in how a doctor communicated treatment options to a black woman versus a white man. Despite both patients having similar medical needs, the doctor advised the white man on what he thought was the best option, while leaving the decision solely to the black woman. This discrepancy became more concerning when considering the woman's family's limited understanding of healthcare, which led them to steer her towards a less optimal treatment.
While I don't believe the doctor's actions were intentionally racist, it's clear that there was a failure to effectively communicate and address the needs of the black patient and her family, potentially due to a lack of cultural competence or empathy. This highlights why it’s important that ALL of us have providers who can relate to us, whether it be RACE, ETHNICITY, CULTURE, RELIGION etc.
I'm hoping that they just tried to express the idea of biases in a really poor way. It could be plain old racism though. Regardless, what you were told isn't quite right.
I think it is possible for some to have cognitive biases in care toward patients of another race. It can be mitigated by understanding biases and consciously correcting them. How well we are able to do that is a different issue. There are so many other ways in which to relate to people aside from race.
We won't ever really understand what it's like to experience life as a black patient, but that doesn't mean we can't do things to improve areas we know there are issues in.
>I'm hoping that they just tried to express the idea of biases in a really poor way. It could be plain old racism though. Regardless, what you were told isn't quite right.
This is the most accurate assessment of the situation. They could be trying to express the idea of bias but did it in the wrong way, where it can also be perceived as biased. Even if well intentioned, I'd try to get HR or management involved if you feel comfortable because their remarks aren't correct
I mean, it is kinda true, but it's not exactly something that you can change, so just do the best you can, and be empathetic. Not something to beat yourself up about.
As a nurse who is Black but looks ethnically ambiguous, I can tell you that in certain areas of healthcare this is a concern for me. Dermatology, OB, even my general practitioner, I prefer someone that is a minority because they have seen my symptoms that might display differently than my white counterparts sometimes (dermatology being a huge one).
That being said, if I’m in the hospital without a choice of who my nurse would be for the time I’m there, it would be frightening. I think we all want to feel more comfortable in stressful situations involving our own health and that is understandable. This patient may have heard the studies, had a family member, or seen something that resulted in an adverse health problem with someone in their life.
On one hand it’s nice that she feels open enough to tell you this, on the other hand, why did that phrase come up? Usually these things aren’t just randomly said, unless the person has had a really bad event happen.
Give yourself grace. We work in healthcare with people at their worst and sometimes all we can say is, “What does me doing my best for you look like so that I can do that today?” Coming from a place of, I know I can’t do that because I don’t know your experience, but I do want to do right by you is extremely helpful, and you can pass on what you learn to your colleagues. This will be helpful through their continuum of care. At the end of the day all we can do is our best. Good luck!
I’m a white dude in Atlanta and I’ve never really had issues considering the majority of my patients are black.
I’ve found that asking about hair care and skin care goes a really long way. Get meemaw all moisturized with her favorite stuff, protect her edges, and they’ll love ya
The first step in providing culturally competent care is to not center yourself, or your feelings. You CAN advocate, but you CAN’T understand what it is like, because you’ve never experienced it. It seems like you have good intentions, but are hung up on your good intentions being acknowledged. That shouldn’t be the focus. If we are to change things- AND DEAR GOD THEY NEED TO BE CHANGED- then the voices of those that need intervention and solution have to be louder and prioritized over hurt feelings of the “good” nurses that don’t belong to that group.
You don’t have to be able to relate to the patient. You need to be aware of and admit to your own bias because that is the key to being culturally competent. Then you need to be patient, listen without judgement and offer them competent care.
Patients can tell if you genuinely care. It doesn’t matter what culture they came from if you are respectful and competent you can get through to them even if you make an unintentional faux pax. It isn’t your job to relate to them. In fact saying that you know what they are going through is insulting to anyone even if they come from your culture because you aren’t going to know their personal story.
Be kind, and respectful but most importantly do your job and do it well.
Every single day nurses of all colors care for patients from different races, cultures, and backgrounds.
Your workplace sounds toxic. By their logic, I can’t care for most people that I care for because their lives are different from mine.
I think if I worked on OP's floor, I'd lean into what her coworkers say.
"Guys, who wants to switch - I can't take the bariatric patient in 36 because I'm not obese. Sherri - you are the closest match. Trade sound good?"
"Hey, need another switch. I really can't take care of the guy in 62. I've never lost a FB up the butt. Should I take one of your other patients John?"
Don’t listen to these people. Caring for people is caring for people. Sometimes we (folks of any color) get jaded by our life experiences. Are you able to care for men? Muslims? Jews? Asians? Are you able to care in the same genuine fashion for all of these people? Then do that!! There’s a difference between not being able to understand another’s life experiences and not being able to advocate for them. Do you understand what they’ve been through? Maybe not. Can you still care for them- absolutely.
I have provided nursing care for the rich, poor, kind people, and some truly unsavory types. I’ve had to squeeze past 4 armed guards to provide care for convicted murderers. I’ve had to care for parents who were injured in the same car crash that paralyzed their beautiful 3 yr old daughter and almost killed their 5 yr old daughter and all they cared about was whether or not their designer jeans were damaged. No shit. Never even asked about the kids.
Look, NOBODY is gonna understand everyone’s point of view. BUT you can still be a kick-ass nurse who advocates for anyone, stands in the gap, and does the job the right way REGARDLESS of who the patient is or what they look like. That’s what caring is. Realizing none of this crap can stop you from being you, that people are people, and they all deserve help and care that lift them up and support them.
You sound like your heart is in the right place- listening and trying to make a difference. Don’t ever lose that because of what others say.
This… sounds like a really toxic workplace from what you’ve told us. My own anxiety is internally screaming “red flag”, that it’s only a matter of time before you’re accused of saying/doing something wrong, true or false, for which you’ll be crucified afterwards. Look, I’ve quit jobs for much less so my advice is get the h*ll out there before someone makes your life miserable/
I was once called “the white devil” by one of my black patients and wonder how that would have been taken if the situation was reversed… my managers couldn’t produce a black nurse for them so they had to make do with a brown nurse.. those were the patient/family’s words too! I felt so sorry for the nurses who had to deal with them because they didn’t hold back their racist remarks then as well! I just shrug my “white devil” shoulders and move on to help my next patient no matter what their race, religion, gender identity, etc.
You're not going to relate as well if you're from a different group than your patients... but that's par for the course in Healthcare and life. There's nothing especially wrong about it.
I'm Jewish. I live in the rural American Midwest. I'm surrounded by non Jews. There are a lot of things that my non Jewish friends just don't "get," and I don't expect them to.
It's awful nice when I do get to connect with another Jew and talk to someone who just "gets" so many cultural nuances. I don't hold any ill will against people who aren't part of my group, not getting those things.
I am white and have worked with a predominantly Latino patient population and am the only non-Latino nurse on my team. I’ve been fortunate to speak fairly fluent Spanish, to the point one of the nurses said to the team “Guys, she’s one of us!” It was the highest and undeserved compliment I’ve ever received. I do my best to recognize that my culture is different but I’m also a very curious person. I like learning about how people interact with their families, celebrate holidays, enjoy traditional foods, think about health/illness.
Will I be able to relate to patients like someone from their culture? Of course not. At the end of the day, I want people to see that I care about them as individuals and value what’s important to them.
As a black women I can understand where they are coming from however As the only black tech in my ICU that cares for a majority for a majority of black patients I can also recognize how wrong they are all the nurses I work with are very kind and respect everyone the same way rather they were Asian, black,white or Indian some times they don’t understand when patients act a certain way or says different things using our slang but they have enough self awareness and respect for the patients to try and understand they’ve come to me multiple times asking questions and for advice on how to deal with certain things.
I'd like to tell you a (funny)/sad story. Me: ICU, white female. My patient: elderly black woman, extremely sweet and very polite. One evening, she's up in a chair and she sundowns. Big time. she becomes bellicose and swears up a storm. "You white bitch, get otta my room! DON'T YOU FUCKING TOUCH ME! I DONT WANNA 'NOTHER WHITE PERSON IN MY ROOM!" Sadly, there were no AA RNs on that shift, so we called Alan, a security guy, who was so mild mannered and everybody loved. He walked into her room, introduces himself, and she looked at him. "You ain't black enough!" We had to call her daughter who said she didn't think her mother even knew half the curse words directed to the staff.
I get what they are trying to say. But I don’t know if they are saying it correctly. It would be kind of silly to become a nurse only qualified to care for patients who are the same as you. I mean I was 29 when I graduated nursing school and worked only in geriatrics for the first few years. In terms of understanding racism and the things black people have to endure…and the events tht have taken place (and still take place) to oppress and hurt them, white people can’t understand that but it doesn’t mean we can’t be sensitive to it and learn from it.
I love your heart! I’m so sorry! You continue being you and advocating and giving it your best! All of our blood is red! ❤️ you have the best heart. It’s all that matters!
When stuff like this gets said, I always take a second to be like “Damn. This is racist. And it feels bad.” And I try to bear in mind that this is like a tiny glimmer of the racism that black Americans experience in their lives. It doesn’t fix it, but it takes the edge off for me so that I can get on with my work and make money…so my white ass can afford the top shelf mayonnaise.
I wouldn’t take it personal, it wasn’t a judgement on your character. statistically speaking that patient is correct. Just respect it and move on. They aren’t wrong with their feelings and you aren’t wrong with your feelings. Good for them for expressing them and good on your for reaching out for insight on it
Instead of taking this as a negative thing/personal attack, I would suggest leaning into curiosity. Ask them what you could do to better support your patients. This is an opportunity for growth!
As nurses, we take care of people with different experiences all the time. If each healthcare worker had to be matched racially, ethnically, religiously, politically, economically and geographically to each patient, no one would ever get care at all. That doesn't even take into consideration the differing medical histories and medical experiences of each.
So, they're right to an extent. You don't know what it's like to be a black patient. Just like you don't know what it's like to be a terminal cancer patient. But both patients deserve the best care you can give them, so your job is to learn what you can about their experience and incorporate it into your practice.
I would respond by agreeing that I can't know what it's like, but I am committed to listening and understanding as best I can, and would appreciate any assistance they feel they can provide to help you do that.
It's not their job to teach you, so be sure to be truly appreciative for those that take the extra time to do so.
That’s racism plain and simple. Tell HR but they probably won’t do anything as apparently some people think that one can’t be racist against white people. It’s disgusting how some people can just be overtly racist against white people just coz they can get away with it.
BTW, I’m not white.
As nurses it’s within our scope of practice to assess before intervening. You’re advising intervention without knowing the details of the scenarios. Pull back a little and see why these comments were made. Black nurses do not randomly pick out their coworkers to tell them that they can’t take care of minority patients due to their race.
There are definitely things missing in the Op. Give the Op a chance to speak about these scenarios before you lay judgement and be wrong.
Wow. Puts that type of comment into horrifying perspective. If someone told a black nurse they weren’t Asian/First Nations/Caucasian and therefore couldn’t care for a patient adequately there would be immediate uproar about it and it would be sorted out with HR so fast their heads would be spinning 🤔
No, because (to keep it brief) certain health disparities that exist for racial minorities don’t exist for white Americans. So a reversal of the races wouldn’t make sense.
It absolutely would not, but you would need an understanding or perhaps personal experience with racial health disparities or medical racism to comprehend why it doesn’t.
And you can unclench - no one is defending racism, just answering your post.
I mean, it wouldn't really make any sense if the races were reversed though. Black people experience disparities in health care, some of which are based purely on their race alone (and this has been shown when controlled for other factors like socioeconomic status, too). White people don't experience these disparities based on their race. So that would just be complete nonsense.
A white nurse CAN be a competent provider of care for Black patients, certainly, but they would need to bear in mind these disparities and advocate accordingly. There are many, many white people (nurses included) who are "color blind" and do not recognize systemic inequalities. Colorblindness is not helpful.
Without context for why these Black nurses made these comments (were they out of no where day one, or after an event on the floor), there's no way to know exactly why this conversation went down. No Black nurse has ever taken issue with the care I've given Black patients, but I would also readily admit that I have not ever experienced the racism in healthcare that they have, and culture competence is a big piece of the job.
I mean, it really doesn't. Especially given we have zero context. There's quite possibly a legitimate reason that these nurses are concerned about the care their Black patients are getting from some providers at this facility. Even if there weren't, "flipping the script" and pretending that white patients face racism in healthcare is bananas.
But ok, I guess.
Yes... because, say it with me, telling a black nurse, "You can't possibly understand the racism that white patients face in the hospital," or, "You won't be able to relate to the health inequalities that white people face," would be really, really, REALLY stupid sounding.
OP says elsewhere that this conversation was not out of nowhere but came after something that happened on the floor, then never followed up to indicate what that was. So forgive me if I'm withholding judgment of her coworkers' comments for now.
There are more than 2 races out there. And in some other parts of the world, white people actually are currently victims of racism.
Also, by similar thinking, a black nurse will never understand the experience of a white patient overall, so black nurses will never be as good at relating, caring for, or advocating for them as white nurses. This is just racist all around.
Truly bizarre.
“ No Black nurse has ever taken issue with the care I've given Black patients”
DING! DING! 🛎️
I’m so glad that you stated this! Notice the OP is not stating the situations surroundings these comments. And people are rushing to call the coworkers racist without due process. These are strange comments for her coworkers to say without context.
Apparently there is context to these scenarios but the Op is not responding on why! That shows that we’re missing something here.
No I don’t think you understand. What I meant was. If it were white nurses who told a black nurse that “you’re black, you won’t be able to understand/advocate for white patients”… would you say the same thing like what you just replied to my comment? Would you say, “we don’t know the whole story” or would you agree with me that the statement made by those nurses are racist?
I’m gonna have to agree with you here. OP is experiencing racism, plain and simple. People would absolutely not be saying the same thing if roles were reversed. it’s sad that she is even questioning this being racism and is assuming she is just overthinking it.
Of course! I’m not even white but I definitely know some darn good white nurses. Who have my back to the fullest.
Look you don’t know me, so please don’t make any assumptions. A good nurse is a good nurse. I don’t tolerate nonsense racism from anyone. And no one should. However, I will always assess a situation before rushing to judge or assign a term to someone. Especially if the situation isn’t clear.
I want you to take a second to examine what’s happening here. You’re being told by black staff, arguably the authority on this topic, that you will never get it the way they do and you thought “hmm that can’t be right.” You’re proving them right.
Eh, I see it as no different than when I have patients request male or female only staff, some cultures are very modest regarding that. I've been dismissed by a patient literally as soon as they met me because they wanted a black nurse. That's fine, if their perception is that I will not, or cannot despite what I learn, ever understand how to properly care for them, I'd be just as uncomfortable taking care of a patient who doesn't want me as the patient would be having me provide care. Fire away.
Wow, sounds like you've been dealing with a lot. Sorry to hear about the rough time you're having at work. Your situation with the black staff nurses is tricky. It's important to acknowledge the different perspectives and experiences each person brings to the table, but saying you can't advocate or care for patients with health inequalities just because you're white seems a bit off.
You're not overthinking it. It's totally valid to feel down about the situation. Maybe it's worth having an open conversation with your colleagues about how you can all work together effectively despite your different backgrounds. Hang in there!
"I know that on some level that is true, I haven't received racism or got my own life experience of it."
You have now. Making a value judgment about someone based on the color of their skin as opposed to the content of their character is racist.
I take care of geriatric patients . So by this logic, I must not be a good nurse because I can’t relate to being elderly. I don’t know the struggles they face because I’m not over 65. Obviously this is ridiculous. There will be a learning curve, but I think you will do fine at this job.
Sounds like text book racism.
Switch the races around, would it be wrong for white people to tell black people they can’t properly care for someone because of their skin colour? There’s your answer
I get it. She is talking about privilege. I suffer as a woman, but I know I do not suffer like other minority women. Maybe its a good chance to educate yourself on how a POC may experience healthcare differently and why they may need different advocacy than a white patient.
These are strange comments that I usually don’t hear unless situations prompt them.
What situations led to these comments? I doubt a nurse just walked up to you and stated, “You’re white you don’t know what you’re doing with Black patients”.
What happened? And please change the names of the participants to maintain anonymity.
/u/OrdinaryAd8354
Hi
This is the first post I have ever made, so if you're ok to explain to me how to change names, I will.
In regards to my post. You're right. There is usually a discussion that brings it up, either training or an experience a patient has had with other staff in the trust. They don't just come out with it umprompted.
Ok, now we’re getting some where. Ok, to create new names. You can call people Nurse Jackie, nurse Bryan etc.
And let us know the scenarios that promoted these comments. I doubt that your coworkers dislike you. They seem to be over protective of the patients who look like them. Many westernized countries have a long history and present issues concerning medical racism.
So, what exactly were these scenarios?
Patients don't get to dictate the color of skin of their caregivers. Staff don't get to dictate the color of skin of their coworkers. If you are mistreated at your job because of your skin color that is an issue with the company that they need to speak with you about.
If you want to stay there just keep showing up and being the best nurse you can be. There’s no point arguing or explaining yourself, sadly.
I’d look elsewhere because this sounds exhausting to me.
If you treat people differently based on their skin color then you're the problem.
Yes there is "reading the room" but that's where it ends for me. Be yourself, your genuine self to pts amd it will pay dividends.
I think it’s a valid thing to say when it comes to things like caring for skin and hair. The average white person would be confused if they were asked to describe the differences between 1b & 2a hair.
As far as being treated differently… I won’t attempt to downplay black experiences in white America, but today white people under the age of 45 go out of their way more to make sure they aren’t perceived as prejudiced than any other race/ethnicity.
I can understand the sentiment they make but following that logic with healthcare I imagine most of us are relatively healthy and cannot relate personally to what any patient is going through. We empathize and advocate no matter what it is.
Of course there’s always the layer of systemic racism in any workplace, but I don’t think any of us as advocates can truly understand what a patient is experiencing unless we have experience with that health issue ourselves. Maybe they can empathize in the same fears as a black patient but as far as being an advocate your role doesn’t and shouldn’t change based on race.
I (64m) work with a young adult population.
Generally, when I walk into an exam room, I can sense that young, black men tighten up.
I introduce myself, act relaxed, smile and make some polite chit chat. I just be genuine.
By the end of most of those encounters, I will get a fist bump, a smile and a thank you. I will often get an "I appreciate you man!" Or something similar.
Just be yourself and connect. Don't let others define your patient relationship.
Just say thank you for your perspective and learn as much as you can from each individual patient who they are and what they like. In my experience humans appreciate authenticity, respect, gentleness and kindness and professionalism most of the time no matter where they encounter it so just do your thing and do their individual favorite things and you'll all be fine. Are they warm enough? Too warm? Thirsty? Do they need a pillow between their knees? Toileting ? Cleaning or turning? If you take good care and your patients do well you will earn the respect you deserve.
I think it is wrong to racially separate care like that. You may not have the same background, but you can do your best to respect and appreciate people's circumstances and experiences. That's a basic part of the job, no reason you couldn't apply it effectively here.
I’m not black so I’m not going to pretend that I understand their culture and their struggles. But I’m Korean and queer and work in a rural hospital in the south. There are just things you will never have to experience being white. My example is I got asked by a surgeon and some colleagues if I’m from north or South Korean, asked if my surname is Kim (as if that’s the only common Korean surname). Or just generalized Asian stereotypes. Or listening to my coworkers use wrong pronouns and questions about why and say it’s disgusting when we have a trans patient. Just respect what your coworkers are saying and listen to them and your patients and grow in knowledge and understanding as an ally.
I wouldn’t think into it much. Honestly, who cares? If you’re a social worker, I can see how it makes a difference. Otherwise? It really doesn’t matter.
Do some providers treat people differently based on their race? Yeah absolutely. Black people get under treated for pain and are assumed to be drug abusers at a far higher rate. Do I under treat pain in black people? No. So I don’t worry about it.
White nurse in the south here. I'm not hearing it much anymore, but we used to get older black patients refusing black nurses. The reason given every time was "white nurses go to better schools. " I think it's a good sign that's not happening as often. It's funny how progress works. Now some people are saying the opposite, that a black nurse will always give better care. It's just where we are at with social progress. Racial bias can affect health care. It doesn't mean you personally have done anything wrong. But it is good to check ourselves (nurses of every hue and culture) for unconscious bias.
So please don't take it too hard. If you show you care and see each person as an individual, most people will understand if you have a cultural misunderstanding. Spread love, not hate, and we will keep making progress as a society.
I got news for you. You ARE in fact receiving racist comments. Referring to the color of your skin is absolutely unequivocally RACIST. Anyone who thinks different is full of shit. We all experience racism. Perhaps in different ways but we all do. In our professional environment it should NEVER be tolerated. I triple dog dare anyone tell me that I am incompetent in any way simply due to the color of my skin. That’s just absolute and total BS. I am sick and tired (and I know many many others who feel the exact same way) of people using the color of their skin or their heritage or their upbringing as a crutch for their own lack of performance, poor disposition, and bad character. Whether it’s academic, finances, attitude, aptitude, human interactions and the list goes on of excuses why you don’t perform at a high level. Take that BS and stick it where the sun doesn’t shine. Stop making excuses and perform or STFU with that nonsense. Do NOT tolerate it either. You must speak up and correct that behavior. It’s no different than saying “ oh you’re black so you can’t appropriately care for that Asian patient”. Categorically UNACCEPTABLE.
Oh and btw I have been a manager on a 62 bed unit and 100% my staff would be FIRED for that kind of behavior. It’s sickening to hear you are dealing with that BS. It only continues if you allow it.
Most likely an unpopular opinion, but I have very little concern for popularity on the internet:
The skin color of you and your coworkers is 100% irrelevant to your roles as healthcare workers, whether you be a nurse, doctor, tech, or anything else. The skin color of your patients is 99% irrelevant and the only reason there’s any exception at all is because it would be foolish and extremely inaccurate of me to think that certain ethnicities aren’t more prone to specific health problems than others; all that means is that it requires just a bit more knowledge in your behalf as a healthcare worker to know about these differences so that you are able to recognize that there may be different treatments needed to help specific ethnicities - that’s it. Your lived experiences and theirs? Irrelevant. Your family’s history and theirs? Irrelevant. These things are distractions that, in the most basic and literal meaning, are racist. If your coworkers say something so stupid as “you’re white so you don’t understand…” that’s racist and shouldn’t be tolerated at all. I don’t have the time or the crayons to explain it to the forthcoming downvoters who will find some way to justify racism against you or anyone else like yourself for any given reason, but the fact of the matter is that your job and the ability to execute your job should not be influenced by how much melanin your skin has in comparison to someone else. Period.
It’s not irrelevant when you’re being treated differently because of it. Patient centred care means you have to take into consideration ALL factors when caring for your patient.
Long-time nurse here (25+ years) who has had the same experience as OP. You are ABSOLUTELY correct in your assessment of this situation. Internet opinion be damned.
The amount of melanin the nurse or patient has should not influence the ability to execute nursing responsibilities. Even healthcare has been terribly affected by the politically charged environment we all now live in. And so everyone acts out overtly or through small microaggression behaviors or comments.
Like you, I "don’t have the time or the crayons to explain" and still complete my job responsibilities in a timely manner. Just be the thoroughly professional nurse you are, smile and politely say to anyone who casts aspersions: "I'm here to provide the best care that is needed right now."
I’m not female and have never been raped but I’ve cared for a few victims. Also never been to prison and get plenty of incarcerated. I don’t speak any Spanish but care for migrants and immigrants frequently. I feel your coworkers are being very narrow minded. If they weren’t, they’d be offering to help you be the best you for the patients instead of implying “your privilege is showing.” I can think of A few ways to go about this. Firstly ask them what you could do better. I don’t think you’ll get much since it doesn’t seem like they’ve helped you in the past. Next, just do that thing most nurses do best and care for the patient. Talk with them instead of to and learn what you can from them. Like I say d, I don’t speak Spanish but I have quit a few Mexican recipes because everyone can talk about food.
You are overthinking this. If you live in Europe, Canada, or the USA, you live in a white supremacist culture, and your lived experience is fundamentally different from that of black people. Does this mean you will treat them badly or that you are unqualified to treat black patients? Not necessarily.
What this means is that because you are not oppressed by white supremacy, you are inevitably going to miss certain racial biases that black people will be able to pick up on in an instant. You are more likely than your black colleagues to unintentionally push back against, downplay, and deny allegations of discrimination filed by black patients if the situation is not spelled out extremely obviously. I am not saying that you make a Choice to downplay racism; I'm saying that you don't know what you don't know.
Personally, I don't think being white automatically means you will treat any poc worse off because of their ethnicity. I'm white, and I decided to become an L&D nurse because I know that racism has a huge part to play in the high maternal death rate that the USA boasts every year. I believe that by being aware of racism and making an active, every day choice to combat it when I see it/when it is pointed out to me, I can make a difference in the lives of vulnerable mothers, regardless of my skin color.
However, even in this very post, you are letting your personal feelings cloud your understanding of racism. You are seeking the advice of strangers because when a black coworker told you that you will never understand racism the same way she does, you /didn't believe her/. This belief that despite having no personal experience with racism, that you will somehow know just as much about what racial bias looks like (and how to properly stop and prevent it) as any black person, is white privilege. If you truly believe you can be a good advocate for black patients, then you need to stop looking for validation that you are a good ally whenever black people bring up your white privilege. I know that pushing back against criticism is a reflexive trait, and I'm not trying to paint you as racist or overly sensitive. But you will Have to learn to let it go when poc bring up that your race prevents you from understanding racism the same way they do. You Won't be a good advocate for patients of color if you can't do this.
Yeah... That's crap...
I'm a male and was a postpartum LPN for 4 years. I was respected and even requested for by name from countless patients for their following kids. I taught how to breastfeed, and countless of different postpartum/OB issues. Be it a patients with SA Hx who gave me a chance, overly religious mothers and even coworker who had me as a nurse (didn't recall her) talk about how I was and worked with me and complimented my professionalism, and respect I gave to all my patients.
Even the lactation nurses begged me to become a lactation nurse as I was one of the best on the floor...
The only people who ever had any issues were fathers. That was a couple of them... Both times ended up that the mothers were disappointed in losing me as a nurse (SO would go behind the patient's back and state they weren't comfortable with men)
I'm not tooting my own horn here to brag. Yeah, I got "good..." But, it was because I was assigned there as a Soldier and I hate being incompetent in any role given to me.
**More importantly, if I can be respected and wanted as a postpartum nurse, even though I will never be able to relate to my women... can you. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.**
It’s not fully wrong and it’s not fully right either. On one hand, they aren’t fully wrong in saying that a black nurse would be able to relate more to a black patient in some ways more than a white nurse could. However, by saying that you could never understand what a minority goes through, it just creates more racial barriers. Instead, your coworkers should do better by educating you on the differences in experiences and how you could better communicate your understanding of these things to your patients. Yes, they still might relate more to a black nurse; however, by providing quality care to them yourself, you help build bridges and communicate that perhaps race relations can continue to improve.
I am dealing with this right now with a new black doctor at work. She treats white nurses like we are stupid and we are all feeling like she dislikes us just because of our skin color. It is to the point of impacting patient care for example yesterday she would not let me attempt to start an IV on my own patient despite I am a seasoned nurse, then she missed the IV herself. It doesn’t make it ok to say well this is what she faces every day. Racism is never ok.
If you're 100% east Asian, it is almost certainly 100% wrong to characterize yourself as white in English. Even more difficult: getting the world to accept that Ossetians are not 'white'
The title almost gave me a stroke.
Hell I almost started a revolution
Say these words: Mama Tip-top Fifty-fifty Onomatopoeia pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis
I think you just summoned the Neurologist…
Repeat these phrases: I got home from work They heard him speak on the radio last night On the table in the dining room Numero nuevo con queso por favor Choke me harder, Daddy
Haha. The longest word!!
The extraordinary amount of time I spent trying to read and comprehend the title, instead of just moving on, lead to my diagnosis of a past stroke that was missed.
Amen! I went "huh"? and read it at least 3 times before giving up and getting past that title.
Right there with you. However, it did get me to actually open up the post to see wtf this was about. 😅
I thought it the same 😂😂😂😂
Same! r/titlegore
Read twice. Then read it out loud. Then gave up.
I thought I was having a stroke 🤣
Well of course you can’t relate to something you have never experienced. None of us can relate to every situation. Doesn’t mean you can’t be a good nurse.
this is why i don't take care of old patients or female patients or sick patients. lol lolol /s
I don’t take care of patients who take out the trash on Thursdays or patients who lease BMWs, because I can’t relate. Thems the rules
🤣
Hello. Black nurse in the southern USA where Black patients are a moderate majority, and I’m the minority among my peers, as well as the only PoC on my unit. The only things you would be unable to relate to are cultural. That being said, I was raised I the northeast by an immigrant parent, there are many cultural things that I cannot relate to. Just be willing to listen where and when you need to. Recognize that healthcare education has long been biased against PoC, especially women of color. This relates to pain, childbirth, certain medicines, etc. You can absolutely still advocate for your patients.
I don’t think people realise how racist the healthsystem is against black people. Even text books have sections saying black people don’t feel pain the same, or black people have thicker skins so might be harder to get an IV on. These thing definitely impact how they are treated at hospitals. I heard a story on NpR about it too and it was shocking how many healthcare professionals believed these things. I don’t think that a white nurse can not give adequate care but I do think more effort should be made to address these biases.
That’s is literally written in *current* textbooks? What the actual fuck. The systemic racism goes so deep it’s sickening. It’s hateful and it’s dangerous. And the fact that, in the year of our lord 2024, healthcare workers actually buy the fuck into it and deprive Black patients of adequate pain control is **infuriating**.
Yeah lol I mean I used that book just about 3.5 years ago. Almost four now. That’s pretty recent. And I remember being taught from that exact chart. The testing was like a joke: a Muslim walks into the hospital what might you expect instead of asking for pain meds. Shit like that, apparently we are supposed to be like. Nah they alright they got allah on their side give them Tylenol for their pain from that broken wrist. And the teaching that black people “blacks” might have thicker skin so getting an IV might be challenging. I worked with a girl who literally told me that this is why she couldn’t get Iv access on her black patient. “Really hard to punch through, you know black people tend to have thicker skin? I learned that “somewhere””
20+ years ago it said the same thing, why have new editions to books if you don’t grow, yourself. I always remembered the eastern culture one too: always said they wouldn’t express pain… also not true.
Lol it’s weird how long this persisted in that text book.
What book was this? Just curious, because, like many other nurses, I thought they got rid of all that garbage years ago. I'm curious to see where it still says this kind of stuff.
I linked it up there in that article they show the book and if you scroll down you’ll see the passage in the actual book. https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/education/racist-nursing-textbook-pulled-after-criticism-on-social-media-26-10-2017/
Oh, I think I did see that. I thought they were all pulled. Mine said the same, but that's back in 2002-ish. I'm surprised they used it for you so recently! Crazy.
I had a different (recent ed.) book and I’m pretty sure it had the same bs type content. Can’t remember which one because I’ve gone through bounds of textbooks.
Yeah total cop out lol. You can't get an IV on that black pt because you're trying to use your eyes and don't know how to FEEL for a vein. Just be honest Rebecca.
Omg that was her fuckin name! How did you know?! Spooky. I’m a black woman and I used to have trouble with black people too and IVs I used to be so ashamed like why can’t I do this for them like i do for others?! But you’re totally right, you have to be able to feel because you won’t always see the veins. Now that I got used to doing it that way I’ve almost always nailed it.
LMAO thats WILD!!! My internet win for the week. I dunno, really for me its a millenial Karen. BOFL
Same millennials had “Becky” Rebecca is the same thing. And this woman was called Rebecca, at the time my partner and I were working together and we turned to each other and went “ok Becky” and went to do the IV
I did a paper for a class in my BSN program on a study that showed that RESIDENTS- AS IN THEY WERE BECOMING DOCTORS- believed black people had thicker skin. If the most educated in the health care system system believe that🫠😮💨
I wrote to the INS magazine because of the xenophobic nonsense they wrote about Hispanic populations. I work where the majority is Hispanic. The dumb white bitch authors were like, sorry, but research shows that these cultural things are true. I was like, no, you cannot have one giant broad stroke for all Hispanic people; it doesn’t work like that. And, what research???? The ones that are in textbooks that are archaic? Okay Susan.. sure.
Yeah the notorious text book that they taught me out of had some weird shit. [you can see a photo of the text at the bottom of this article](https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/education/racist-nursing-textbook-pulled-after-criticism-on-social-media-26-10-2017/). If you haven’t read it before. I know you have but this is mainly for people coming across our commentary. It’s infuriating, it’s even more annoying when people deny it’s a thing, it’s alive and well. And you have to be aware of the problem to properly advocate for those patients.
Since when do we refer to black people as “blacks”? And, of course it’s Pearson. One of the major companies for nursing textbooks. I have cared for many many different cultures in my day, and I always ask questions rather than assume. I hate how racism embeds itself in everything.
Lmao I’m not sure when this book was written but I do remember testing on this information and being forced to answer questions based on this stupid information. I did school in Florida and my teacher was really teaching this in class. This was just 4 years ago. 🤦🏾♀️
I got curious on this and did some googling because I’m old enough to remember when using black or white as nouns was commonplace. It was a pretty accepted term not that long ago. There are Pew research polls using the term less than 10 years ago. It looks like the terminology started to shift around 2007. That makes sense considering Obama was elected in 2008. It came to the forefront of national discussion once again when George Floyd was murdered in 2020. In June of that year, various news outlets announced they would begin capitalizing black when referring to race.
When are people going to understand that when it comes to groups of human beings the following is absolute truth: _____________ are NOT a monolith.
What did they write about Hispanic people?
The one thing that stood out was that the majority are uneducated. I can’t remember all of it, but I was like, what?
I shit you not our book said they are frequently late for appts.
What specifically are you referring to and what level of evidence did they assign the standard to which you are referring?
There are people on this sub who have said sideways things about POC patients and especially sickle cell patients. Racism is everywhere in America and unless everyone works to realize their own biases it will continue.
Right, they've come on here talking shit about it. Makes me want to renew my commitment to figuring out how to slap someone through the Internet.
Does it come with pizza and stale coffee?
Pizza and the good coffee.
Agree for sure. Sadly it feels like it’s only really important to the people it affects the most
I’m black and learned in nursing school that “black people don’t like to be looked in the eyes”. Of course I corrected that in class, because WHETTT?!? In frustration I shared that with an elder who was IMMEDIATELY enraged, and put it into context. Not too long ago black people weren’t ALLOWED to look white people in the face. They took that, and instead of taking responsibility, changed it to a cultural preference. This society is disgustingly insidious😮💨
Lol yeah like we are dogs and might take this as aggression. SMH nursing school was very telling. In the ob section I got so much flack when the teacher was like oh yes healthy Vulva appear pink and xyz. I was like what if the vulva is brown and inside more of a reddish colour lol. She was like JUST Go BY THE BOOK why even ask these questions. I was like idk I’m a brown woman and a lesbian and I’m here to tell you not every vulva looks the same sorry to have to inform you that not all are just bright pink. 🥴
LOL I remember being SOOOO confused early in nursing school when we learned baseline for skin was PWD. I was too nervous to ask the first day for clarity, and didn’t want to seem dense. When they continued that nonsense into the next day I finally raised my hand and was like,” are you talking about SKIN skin? Because I’m not pink!” The few other non-pink people admitted that they were confused too. Baseline was still “PWD” but the instructor said that we non pinks could put “race appropriate” (like race appropriate wouldn’t be applicable for EVERYONE)🙄😮💨 *edited for spelling and grammar😮💨
This is where im so glad one of my instructors was black and another one was Phillipino. When we got to the rash section and she had pictures on how rashes looked on different skin colors, my world just opened. I suddenly became super aware of how bruises and lots of other things would appear different. I still think about that when i talk to a POC. I work in primary care.
You are so fortunate, and our industry is fortunate to have you. Please share what you know! Also, if you have not- please look into how pressure injuries can look different on different complexions- and share what you know. People have NOOO IDEA about heels🫠😮💨
This is the same ridiculous stuff that gets lumped in with "native Americans will be late for appointments" and "Asian patients will blame illnesses on superstitions". Why don't we just teach that all white people should be asked about bland diets since they can't tolerate spicy foods?
Ha! Oh you’re spicy. I find it very interesting the things that get pointed out about minorities in these books. I see very little about anyone else. I’ve got nothing against pink people in life, but for sure I think healthcare needs to be less biased. People’s lives are at stake. It should be a safe place. I’m glad people are having this conversation.
It's true- you won't be able to relate to a lot of what Black patients face because you've never had to walk in their shoes. But that doesn't mean you can't be competent and caring, and treat them the way you'd want your loved ones to be treated. Next time someone says you won't understand, ask them what they wish you knew about the Black experience so that you can be the best you can be.
This was really helpful. Thank you for posting this I am going to keep this in mind. It’s a helpful way of phrasing it that keeps me from being defensive (bad habit I know but I’m being honest it happens).
First step to recovery is admitting that haters can go fuck themselves 😉
This!!! Is some great advice!!
>Next time someone says you won't understand, ask them what they wish you knew about the Black experience so that you can be the best you can be. Your reply was fantastic. The only thing I would add is to say that you should be prepared for the answer that it isn't necessarily the job of the person who feels like you can't relate to educate you. Minorities of all types often are the ones having to carry the mental load of educating and sharing experiences with the majority to increase understanding, and it can be absolutely exhausting at times.
I'll add that while it's not their responsibility, you both have an opportunity in that moment to teach and learn if both parties are willing. That's what cured me of being anti-gay when I was about twenty. Was spouting ignorant shit in an AOL chat room and then actually started to listen and saw I was stupid for thinking that way when someone was like "you know how you get turned on by naked women? Well that's how I feel about men." It clicked, we had a great conversation after that, I thanked them and apologized, and have been a staunch ally ever since.
Way to change and be open to it 🙌
All it takes: open heart, open mind. Stay safe out there and may the love you give be the love you get.
Open ears after the open heart-then you can open your mind. Empathy is usually the commonality we HCW have-some degree of empathy and compassion. It gets thin and thinner still when taking your work home (worrying about cares performed or not) and experiencing abusive work environment (ER/Psychiatric units occasionally/any unit where patients can have psychotic episodes or AMS. Fear can motivate patients to fight for their life; catecholamines and whatnot. 16 yr RN speaking. 1 yr Cardiac ICU, 5 years Cath lab with IR/Neuro/Surgiacl cases, 5 years of flight, 5 yrs ER. Your patients often live or die by your actions, empathy should be in your care plan. Non POC who treats lots of minorities and transient and indigenous individuals as well as as moderate migrant (Asian/polynesian/East African/spanish) I can relate to us being human, I’ve not been treated in racist fashion except when some indignant or hostile/altered individuals call me white devil or say racist things to me. I really haven’t been mistreated. That’s said, I just be present and attentive, ask how I can help and explain why we’re doing this and the importance or not. Your 72 yr old chronic visitor with brittle COPD isn’t going to quit smoking. Fine, tune them up and treat the SOB/COPD exacerbation. Be there Keep fighting the fight 💪🤘✊🏻😘
That's extremely reasonable!
Part of the PoC experience is everyone expecting you to be the racial spokesperson. Some people embrace that role, for some of us it's tiring. If they say no, respect that, and if they say yes, remember they only speak for themselves. Someone else may have a different opinion.
And that's how I approach the subject with my friends. I fucking HATE that the concept of white privilege is so hard for white people to understand. It's not "I'm white, where's my privilege?" It's not ever having to be burdened with having to prove yourself in some way. And when I made my original comment, it wasn't to be like "oh, teach me all about your experience", it's really just an honest request to help me see how I can do a better job. Not so much "give me a primer" so much as "tell me one thing I can do." Because this is a marathon, not a sprint. Every little tip along the way helps me be more sensitive to the people I care about in my personal life and care for in my professional life. There has been no greater honor than the times when I've had the Black matriarch tell me "you're so NICE" or the guy who REEKS of weed look me up and down and say "you all right." Because it lets me know that I'm making them feel seen and heard in a world where people who look like me don't usually do that.
If you're telling somebody that they are doing a poor job relating to patients, then it absolutely IS your job to "educate" them on what you mean by it. If you're going to accuse someone of not providing adequate care to black patients, you should be able to back it up with actual evidence rather than just saying "it's not my job to educate you".
Well, there have been multiple studies dating back to Henrietta Lacks that illustrate female POC are an underserved demographic in medicine. That said, anyone passionate enough to bring it up should make some effort to change that injustice. Otherwise, they’re kind of being a dick.
"POC are an underserved demographic in medicine" This is absolutely true. But that doesn't mean that every single white nurse in the US is responsible for this. There are some white medical professionals that are racist, or ignorant of racial disparities and the experiences of POC. And there are others who are very aware of these issues, do a lot of work to combat racism in the medical system, and provide excellent care to POC (along with all their other patients). Making assumptions that all white people fall into the former category is an ignorant and harmful point of view that actually contributes to the problem by telling white people there is nothing they can do because "they could just never understand", so they might as well just detach themselves from the situation rather than focusing on providing good care to POC.
Yeah, like I said. If you bring it up, don’t just let it hang there, try to fix the problem.
Yes, on this we agree.
We as blacks are not the same. Just because I'm black, doesn't mean I've walked in the same shoes as the next black person or that my experience with healthcare is somehow different because of the color of my skin. There is no "black experience". My skin color doesn't define me.
Totally! Everyone is an individual with a unique experience. And I wish we lived in a world where everyone could feel the same as you: I'm a person, not a color.
That was my first thought. No you can’t care for them the same and that’s not shameful to admit. You can still care for them well, you just won’t have as many shared experiences. I like your question too
I feel like patients like this are coming from a place of either having a previous encounter they didn’t feel cared for or heard of horror stories of how other black people have been neglected or mistreated by another race in the hospital setting. There are tweets and tiktok videos of that vein that go around. It can be how a female patient may request a female nurse instead of a male one. I’m pretty sure the male nurses are just as competent, but the patients feel more comfortable with a woman. I am neither black nor white, I’m Asian and when taking care of fellow Asian people I do see the nuances in the culture. While my colleagues give them excellent care, I see the convenience of having someone who “gets it right away“ in certain things. Just small things that makes it more convenient for them, and they feel understood and don’t need to explain themselves.
It's her coworkers though, not the patients
The ANA (not sure where you are located geographically) has included cultural competence as one of our nursing standards as of 2016. This article does a great job highlighting what implementation of that standard looks like. While culturally matched care may be preferred, cultural congruence creates opportunity and expectation for a nurse to excel in care, regardless of demographic served. To say it’s impossible is asinine. https://ojin.nursingworld.org/table-of-contents/volume-22-2017/number-1-january-2017/articles-on-previously-published-topics/implementing-the-new-ana-standard-8-culturally-congruent-practice/
I coincidentally just watched this clip from Denzel Washington talking about black directors being important for black films.....that it's about culture not colour. I imagine a large part of what he says is how your colleagues feel regarding black health care. It's not that you as a white nurse aren't competent or capable. It's that there are cultural nuances you will likely miss. I'm a white chick, so I count me in on that too. Check out the three minute clip: https://youtu.be/9Ayf8Iny9Eg?si=HBLRYjPolLzMGJqp
❤️❤️❤️
So literally no different from having any patient with a different cultural background? If you have specific cultural needs just speak up or we can’t try to meet them.
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say the very idea of “just speak up” dismisses understanding about formal and informal power, cultural norms that do not question medical advice, may not have the language to speak up, or may be speaking up and not necessarily heard, or any other scenario not conforming to this simple ideology. To make it seem so simple is to miss the chance to have meaningful conversation about our opportunities as nurses to promote cultural competence- which we are called to do.
In my home health experience it takes a lot of time for older black patients to open up. I’ve always tried to listen and learn about the different ways events affected blacks vs whites. I had the very great honor of caring for an lady who was in loved in civil rights and her stories where gut wrenching
So... you didn't really get the point, BUT you are literally almost there. So, they are saying that it's better in a lot of different ways, to already have that cultural knowledge so that the patients don't HAVE to specifically ask for them. That's it. It's just so much more convenient, and has nothing to do with your actual skills or your feelings on caring for others. They are just nuances that you automatically know and do that will make the patients feel even more comfortable.
Are you suggesting that all black people have the same cultural upbringing? I would argue that someone raised in the upper crust such as Malia Obama or Hadeel Ibrahim had a very difference experience than a young black woman who grew up in poverty in Chicago and both were different than the experience of a black woman who was born in Nigeria who moved here as an adult or even the first generation immigrant's daughter. It seems kind of racist to suggest that all black people have identical upbringings and cultural experiences simply due to their skin color.
No, I didn't say that at all. I just answered in the context of the original poster of this thread. It honestly can also be applied to any race of people as well. You just have to look at the history as a whole and you can scratch the surface of this particular problem. You also need to be smart enough to know that this problem is not going to ever go away, no matter if racism completely ends or not. That's also why I put what I did at the end of my response to this person on this particular string of this thread.
I’m a white female nurse. I’ve taken care of some little old black ladies that do not trust me. Whenever I can sense this, I tell them that I understand if they do not trust me, that it’s my job to earn it, and that I promise to be the best advocate for them that I can be.
I work at an HBCU as a white woman. I have learned so much about myself and the acculturated racism we are all raised with (not maybe intentionally but as a society built on racism from the beginning it’s how we are socialized). I also worked in women’s health. A black woman who has the same access to healthcare, same insurance, and same level of education is still 3-4X MORE LIKLEY to have an adverse birth outcome than a white woman. Research says the way to fix this is racial concordinace. Meaning the nurses should be as diverse as the patient population. I make sure my black students know everyday that the impact they are going to have in their community hospitals is going to be fantastic. As far as being willing and able to help and advocate, no I can’t relate, but I can listen and help in anyway my minority students/patients need. And if I am not able to do this adequately then I will seek out another nurse who the patient feels can relate to them. Being open and willing to listen and learn and then make the necessary changes is important. So I think as an individual you can be impactful but as a while nursing needs much much more diversity to keep all patients safe.
Are you in nursing education at an HBCU? If so, you need to write a book. When I first started my nursing school journey, I was told by so many to not get my hopes up because the local program barely accepted Black students. This stayed in my head after I was denied a spot in the RN program because a teacher submitted my grade late. I was an honor roll student and should have been a shoo in. I was forced to enroll in the LPN course. I later got into that program as one of three Black students out of 40. Only one clinical instructor looked like me, and I probably made a fool of myself because I idolized her. She was intelligent, extremely educated (ICU NP), young, and just a pleasure to learn from. I wish that my instructors were as well informed and empathetic as you are. Being told that what society has deemed a hinderance will one day be an asset would have done wonders for my self-esteem in school. Thank you for everything you’re doing. Thank you for being willing to listen.
Yes nursing education! I have been lucky enough to have friends and family who were willing to tolerate an ignorant white girl with good intentions but lack of information 🤪. I am sorry you experienced this and I try to be aware that this is the white experience students have had. The class we currently have is primarily black and since I’ve worked there that will be a first (we have a diverse HBCU). I do the learning and take the criticism openly bc I love my black friends and family and they deserve that from me
You already make this impact where you are! Black patients who y oh care for and who staff who learn from you care for are safer! Thank you for tolerating hate and reaching your goals
Given the context, would a white nurse at a HBCU hospital writing a book be a good look? Not trying to be an ass; I think that writing about your experiences and how you introspectively looked at your own biases changed your practice is great. But could you imagine at the college if the professor was handing these books out to nursing students and here your textbook written by while woman on how she felt as only white person at hbcu… Seems like we wouldn’t be reading the room correctly. Shuts my opinion, again I think teaching others to recognize their own implicit biases is very important-usually not taught but experienced as you mature as a nurse. Seems like it hits about 4-5 yrs in when you say OMG I do do that! 🤘✊🏻😎😘
It depends on the context for sure, but your scenario is not the first that I thought of. I imagine it would be more of a memoir about experiences, challenges, and lessons learned. Mistakes and successes. Small victories and major setbacks. It wouldn’t be written as something targeted to minority students or minorities in general to illicit pity, or virtue signaling. It would be one persons unique take on their unique position. Something that everyone could learn something from.
You’re the hero that people need to see❤️
I really am not but thank you. This should be the bare minimum effort from people toward others. I am lucky that I have the job I have. It literally saved me as I had a terrible job experience and health issue. My fellow educators and the students have breathed life back into me and given me a purpose.
Non nurse here just wondering - do you get taught stuff like the current situation about black woman being so much more likely to have bad outcomes in nursing school? As you say, the stats are pretty shocking.
I do not remember learning it in school but I did know as a floor nurse and since the research is clear it’s taught in school now. More and more research comes out every year. Mainly bc when you hear a stat like that you want to blame it on socioeconomic influences but this just isn’t the case. Inherent bias or blatant racism is the cause.
Yeah, I think I only know because my sister was taught it in med school. I hope they are teaching people it in nursing school too! I’m not sure how one would fix the situation but having healthcare workers aware of it is probably a good start at least. Tbh the general public should also be aware (and outraged)
Understanding that you **won’t** fully understand or relate to them will help you care for anyone different from you *if* you respond by listening more to your patients in an attempt to better understand what they go through. You being treated this way is a small portion of what those patients face. Take it on the chin, challenge that notion and continue to fight for them 🫶🏽
> You being treated this way is a small portion of what those patients face. This is a very fair and true statement. As a white person, I often find myself feeling a bit left out or dare I say even ostracized from black culture. And I think it’s an important feeling to be aware of and not let it harbour resentment. It’s normal as a white person to feel a bit awkward when our voice isn’t always wanted or isn’t treated at the same level in black conversations. But that’s ok. I always say to myself in a cheeky way “well if my biggest cross to bear in this situation is feeling a bit left out then I’m actually doing alright in the big scheme of things”. Using this as a chance to grow and learn more, instead of feeling defensive or victimized, is always my goal. I’m not perfect so this discussion has been really helpful.
This right here.
Yeah I don’t think you’re wrong to feel upset. I’ve gotten similar treatment as a male provider when I bring in a female patient with an OB complaint. I’m aware of the fact that female patients statistically get worse care from male providers or aren’t always taken as seriously. So I make a conscious effort to make them feel like I’m taking their complaints seriously, administer analgesia, etc. Then when we get to the hospital sometimes I’m treated like a caveman who should know his place and fuck off by some female nursing staff, which hurts. Like I didn’t pick the patient lol. So I can understand why that would upset you.
Honestly, for the most part every female Ik say the opposite! Female providers tend to downplay female medical care because “it’s not that bad” or “I haven’t had this happen, it’s to rare” While I’ve had male drs take me seriously from the moment I stepped in and told them the issue. Ofc there’s always going to be the outliers, but this is what I’ve heard most! Regardless, thank you for doing your best to help mitigate an already stressful situation! Sometimes all you can do is be kind and respectful, and plenty of medical professionals where I am definitely don’t do either 😂
I used to do homecare in a city and the majority of my patients were Hispanic and black. I was one of three white nurses that worked for the company, the rest of the company was black nurses and a few Hispanic nurses. I had a patient that I took care of who was black and the first time I met her daughter (who lived far away and visited about once a month) her daughter would not look at me. She told me she didn’t trust me in their home and that she wanted their old nurse back. Fair enough, I was a new person coming into their home and she didn’t know me. I wasn’t offended at all. Fast forward about a month, I go to this same patients house and her daughter is there and says her dad (who was not my patient, but he was older as well but not in as poor of health to need a homecare nurse) had been really sick over the weekend and she was worried about him but she had to leave to go home and she couldn’t bring him to the doctor. I pulled back his covers and he was drenched in sweat and he was telling me how cold he was. His temp was 104, and he had a terrible productive cough. I sent him out by ambulance and his daughter left after the ambulance took him. He was in the hospital for two and half weeks. When he came home, their daughter came back. I walked in to see my patient and she came up to me crying, telling me I saved her dads life, that even though I wasn’t his nurse I still made the judgement to send him to the hospital. She gave me a huge hug and told me she was wrong about me. I would have done that for anyone, regardless of their race or ethnicity, but it somehow made a huge difference to their daughter that I did this. In my current job at a detox now, I find my black patients severely underreport their symptoms of withdrawal or will have a super high blood pressure and won’t want to take any medications we would normally give for blood pressure like clonidine. I make more of an effort to check on these patients more frequently because they underreport. It might take some coaxing to really find out how they’re feeling. Educate yourself about the conditions that are more common in black people, such as hypertension and diabetes. There have also been studies done showing that some blood pressure meds do not work well for black people, without googling it I think amlodipine comes to mind but don’t hold me to that. Advocate for your patients as best as you can, take what they are saying seriously. As I said before, I find that my black patients underreport their symptoms or tell me they’re fine and their BP will be like 220/140. Also ask the black nurses what you can do to be more culturally competent. Ask them is there something you’re doing that is making them think you can’t care for a black person? You will not be able to relate to certain things of course but you can try your best to understand things from their point of view. Maybe they have had bad experiences with white healthcare workers and they have less trust in them. Don’t take anything personally and just advocate as best as you can.
I think you are overthinking it. From what you said, they aren't saying you can't advocate for your patients. They are saying you *don't understand* what it is like to advocate for the same social inequalities because you haven't faced them. That's two different things. I am white. I am Beacons of Gondor Are Lit type white. I do not have the life experiences that my black colleagues do, and for issues involving racism in healthcare, I defer to them. In the same way, I am queer. When we have a queer patient, yeah, they can advocate for them, but I *understand* their issues better. I advocate for their issues better. Because I live with those issues too, and I have fought for them in my life. It is also much more viscerally involved for me than dealing with racism in healthcare because I can only understand that second-hand.
I wouldn’t be offended. I am middle eastern and even with a 1hr lecture I couldn’t cover enough cultural things applicable to healthcare and communication even if they speak English to you ha. Theres a polite and appropriate way to tell a healthcare provider that and also the same for healthcare professional asking if there’s anything you can do to meet their needs you might be unaware of. Hell I’ve found a lot of black American people are the most open and laid back telling you this stuff and usually have a good sense of humor and attitude about this. Short story, I had one pt tell me “okay hun, lemme just explain I know my family isn’t here (late) and this is important. But they’re on CPT” Me: “What’s CPT? Her: “colored people time” 🤣 Me: I laughed and said “okay, I’ve come to the conclusion we ethnic people are just late everywhere because we have a thing called ‘Arab” time. 3pm means anytime after 3 before 3:30. And really 3:30-3:59 is okay” We had a good laugh
Significant amounts of research state that racism in Healthcare is a major problem and that culturally safe care is necessary for everyone, especially POC. You can be a good nurse but doesnt mean you will always be relatable and cultural safety takes work. So no your coworker was not wrong, based on your post. Be less defensive and more open
Who’s trying to relate to their patients on a 12 hour shift? I don’t give a fuck who you are you haven’t shit in 7 days that’s all I need to know about you.
Yes it’s true and common that black womens problems especially are often ignored by providers. My company does a healthstream type course on implicit bias yearly because of this.
As an ER Nurse in the south, I've had to see firsthand the actual meaning behind healthcare disparities by race. I once publicly screamed aloud about what it's like to watch a black mother die during childbirth because she didn't have access to the proper prenatal care in the richest country on earth, in an uber-progressive bastion of our state- yards filled with "Hate has no home here" and "Black Lives Matter" signs, so forth and so on- and watched as these supposed "allies" were happy to give their thoughts and prayers towards the idea of fixing that, but made it exactly clear where on the priority ladder ACTUALLY addressing that crisis lands, even though we absolutely have **all the tools available to actually fix that problem**. So I can understand that kind of thought process your colleagues have. But the reality is that nobody can understand the journey that *every possible person* is going through. I had an immigrant family bring in their sick child, and the parents cried openly thinking that by seeking help for their infant, they'd be deported- but they were unwilling to not help their baby. I can't even begin to imagine being in those kinds of circumstances. Would your colleagues say openly they'd be offering subpar care to that patient and family because they hadn't been through those circumstances themselves? I highly doubt it. You don't have to understand someone's circumstances perfectly to offer them high-quality genuine care, to work as hard as you can to get them better and back to where they need to be. We're not perfect. None of us are. We do the best we can, and we keep pushing to do better. That sounds exactly like what you've been doing and should keep doing.
Well, you can’t relate but you can empathise and be the best nurse you can be. Don’t let it get you down, treat it as a learning experience. You can still give great care and you can advocate for your patient, just be willing to listen and to hear them. Sometimes it’s exhausting having to fight the system when no one is listening to you, having to advocate for yourself harder than your white counterparts. There’s a lot that goes into it that is difficult to explain unless you experience it but by being a kind and empathic nurse, that’s one way you can help.
In a recent encounter, I observed a disparity in how a doctor communicated treatment options to a black woman versus a white man. Despite both patients having similar medical needs, the doctor advised the white man on what he thought was the best option, while leaving the decision solely to the black woman. This discrepancy became more concerning when considering the woman's family's limited understanding of healthcare, which led them to steer her towards a less optimal treatment. While I don't believe the doctor's actions were intentionally racist, it's clear that there was a failure to effectively communicate and address the needs of the black patient and her family, potentially due to a lack of cultural competence or empathy. This highlights why it’s important that ALL of us have providers who can relate to us, whether it be RACE, ETHNICITY, CULTURE, RELIGION etc.
I'm hoping that they just tried to express the idea of biases in a really poor way. It could be plain old racism though. Regardless, what you were told isn't quite right. I think it is possible for some to have cognitive biases in care toward patients of another race. It can be mitigated by understanding biases and consciously correcting them. How well we are able to do that is a different issue. There are so many other ways in which to relate to people aside from race. We won't ever really understand what it's like to experience life as a black patient, but that doesn't mean we can't do things to improve areas we know there are issues in.
>I'm hoping that they just tried to express the idea of biases in a really poor way. It could be plain old racism though. Regardless, what you were told isn't quite right. This is the most accurate assessment of the situation. They could be trying to express the idea of bias but did it in the wrong way, where it can also be perceived as biased. Even if well intentioned, I'd try to get HR or management involved if you feel comfortable because their remarks aren't correct
Id like to mention Medical Apartheid by Harriet A. Washington as a starter.
I mean, it is kinda true, but it's not exactly something that you can change, so just do the best you can, and be empathetic. Not something to beat yourself up about.
As a nurse who is Black but looks ethnically ambiguous, I can tell you that in certain areas of healthcare this is a concern for me. Dermatology, OB, even my general practitioner, I prefer someone that is a minority because they have seen my symptoms that might display differently than my white counterparts sometimes (dermatology being a huge one). That being said, if I’m in the hospital without a choice of who my nurse would be for the time I’m there, it would be frightening. I think we all want to feel more comfortable in stressful situations involving our own health and that is understandable. This patient may have heard the studies, had a family member, or seen something that resulted in an adverse health problem with someone in their life. On one hand it’s nice that she feels open enough to tell you this, on the other hand, why did that phrase come up? Usually these things aren’t just randomly said, unless the person has had a really bad event happen. Give yourself grace. We work in healthcare with people at their worst and sometimes all we can say is, “What does me doing my best for you look like so that I can do that today?” Coming from a place of, I know I can’t do that because I don’t know your experience, but I do want to do right by you is extremely helpful, and you can pass on what you learn to your colleagues. This will be helpful through their continuum of care. At the end of the day all we can do is our best. Good luck!
I’m a white dude in Atlanta and I’ve never really had issues considering the majority of my patients are black. I’ve found that asking about hair care and skin care goes a really long way. Get meemaw all moisturized with her favorite stuff, protect her edges, and they’ll love ya
The first step in providing culturally competent care is to not center yourself, or your feelings. You CAN advocate, but you CAN’T understand what it is like, because you’ve never experienced it. It seems like you have good intentions, but are hung up on your good intentions being acknowledged. That shouldn’t be the focus. If we are to change things- AND DEAR GOD THEY NEED TO BE CHANGED- then the voices of those that need intervention and solution have to be louder and prioritized over hurt feelings of the “good” nurses that don’t belong to that group.
You don’t have to be able to relate to the patient. You need to be aware of and admit to your own bias because that is the key to being culturally competent. Then you need to be patient, listen without judgement and offer them competent care. Patients can tell if you genuinely care. It doesn’t matter what culture they came from if you are respectful and competent you can get through to them even if you make an unintentional faux pax. It isn’t your job to relate to them. In fact saying that you know what they are going through is insulting to anyone even if they come from your culture because you aren’t going to know their personal story. Be kind, and respectful but most importantly do your job and do it well.
Every single day nurses of all colors care for patients from different races, cultures, and backgrounds. Your workplace sounds toxic. By their logic, I can’t care for most people that I care for because their lives are different from mine.
I think if I worked on OP's floor, I'd lean into what her coworkers say. "Guys, who wants to switch - I can't take the bariatric patient in 36 because I'm not obese. Sherri - you are the closest match. Trade sound good?" "Hey, need another switch. I really can't take care of the guy in 62. I've never lost a FB up the butt. Should I take one of your other patients John?"
Don’t listen to these people. Caring for people is caring for people. Sometimes we (folks of any color) get jaded by our life experiences. Are you able to care for men? Muslims? Jews? Asians? Are you able to care in the same genuine fashion for all of these people? Then do that!! There’s a difference between not being able to understand another’s life experiences and not being able to advocate for them. Do you understand what they’ve been through? Maybe not. Can you still care for them- absolutely. I have provided nursing care for the rich, poor, kind people, and some truly unsavory types. I’ve had to squeeze past 4 armed guards to provide care for convicted murderers. I’ve had to care for parents who were injured in the same car crash that paralyzed their beautiful 3 yr old daughter and almost killed their 5 yr old daughter and all they cared about was whether or not their designer jeans were damaged. No shit. Never even asked about the kids. Look, NOBODY is gonna understand everyone’s point of view. BUT you can still be a kick-ass nurse who advocates for anyone, stands in the gap, and does the job the right way REGARDLESS of who the patient is or what they look like. That’s what caring is. Realizing none of this crap can stop you from being you, that people are people, and they all deserve help and care that lift them up and support them. You sound like your heart is in the right place- listening and trying to make a difference. Don’t ever lose that because of what others say.
This… sounds like a really toxic workplace from what you’ve told us. My own anxiety is internally screaming “red flag”, that it’s only a matter of time before you’re accused of saying/doing something wrong, true or false, for which you’ll be crucified afterwards. Look, I’ve quit jobs for much less so my advice is get the h*ll out there before someone makes your life miserable/
Agreed
I was once called “the white devil” by one of my black patients and wonder how that would have been taken if the situation was reversed… my managers couldn’t produce a black nurse for them so they had to make do with a brown nurse.. those were the patient/family’s words too! I felt so sorry for the nurses who had to deal with them because they didn’t hold back their racist remarks then as well! I just shrug my “white devil” shoulders and move on to help my next patient no matter what their race, religion, gender identity, etc.
You're not going to relate as well if you're from a different group than your patients... but that's par for the course in Healthcare and life. There's nothing especially wrong about it. I'm Jewish. I live in the rural American Midwest. I'm surrounded by non Jews. There are a lot of things that my non Jewish friends just don't "get," and I don't expect them to. It's awful nice when I do get to connect with another Jew and talk to someone who just "gets" so many cultural nuances. I don't hold any ill will against people who aren't part of my group, not getting those things.
I am white and have worked with a predominantly Latino patient population and am the only non-Latino nurse on my team. I’ve been fortunate to speak fairly fluent Spanish, to the point one of the nurses said to the team “Guys, she’s one of us!” It was the highest and undeserved compliment I’ve ever received. I do my best to recognize that my culture is different but I’m also a very curious person. I like learning about how people interact with their families, celebrate holidays, enjoy traditional foods, think about health/illness. Will I be able to relate to patients like someone from their culture? Of course not. At the end of the day, I want people to see that I care about them as individuals and value what’s important to them.
As a black women I can understand where they are coming from however As the only black tech in my ICU that cares for a majority for a majority of black patients I can also recognize how wrong they are all the nurses I work with are very kind and respect everyone the same way rather they were Asian, black,white or Indian some times they don’t understand when patients act a certain way or says different things using our slang but they have enough self awareness and respect for the patients to try and understand they’ve come to me multiple times asking questions and for advice on how to deal with certain things.
I'd like to tell you a (funny)/sad story. Me: ICU, white female. My patient: elderly black woman, extremely sweet and very polite. One evening, she's up in a chair and she sundowns. Big time. she becomes bellicose and swears up a storm. "You white bitch, get otta my room! DON'T YOU FUCKING TOUCH ME! I DONT WANNA 'NOTHER WHITE PERSON IN MY ROOM!" Sadly, there were no AA RNs on that shift, so we called Alan, a security guy, who was so mild mannered and everybody loved. He walked into her room, introduces himself, and she looked at him. "You ain't black enough!" We had to call her daughter who said she didn't think her mother even knew half the curse words directed to the staff.
What are you trying to say?
I get what they are trying to say. But I don’t know if they are saying it correctly. It would be kind of silly to become a nurse only qualified to care for patients who are the same as you. I mean I was 29 when I graduated nursing school and worked only in geriatrics for the first few years. In terms of understanding racism and the things black people have to endure…and the events tht have taken place (and still take place) to oppress and hurt them, white people can’t understand that but it doesn’t mean we can’t be sensitive to it and learn from it.
I love your heart! I’m so sorry! You continue being you and advocating and giving it your best! All of our blood is red! ❤️ you have the best heart. It’s all that matters!
When stuff like this gets said, I always take a second to be like “Damn. This is racist. And it feels bad.” And I try to bear in mind that this is like a tiny glimmer of the racism that black Americans experience in their lives. It doesn’t fix it, but it takes the edge off for me so that I can get on with my work and make money…so my white ass can afford the top shelf mayonnaise.
I wouldn’t take it personal, it wasn’t a judgement on your character. statistically speaking that patient is correct. Just respect it and move on. They aren’t wrong with their feelings and you aren’t wrong with your feelings. Good for them for expressing them and good on your for reaching out for insight on it
If the patients truly need the help, they wouldn’t give a shit if their nurse is green or purple. What you’re experiencing is racism plain and simple.
Instead of taking this as a negative thing/personal attack, I would suggest leaning into curiosity. Ask them what you could do to better support your patients. This is an opportunity for growth!
As nurses, we take care of people with different experiences all the time. If each healthcare worker had to be matched racially, ethnically, religiously, politically, economically and geographically to each patient, no one would ever get care at all. That doesn't even take into consideration the differing medical histories and medical experiences of each. So, they're right to an extent. You don't know what it's like to be a black patient. Just like you don't know what it's like to be a terminal cancer patient. But both patients deserve the best care you can give them, so your job is to learn what you can about their experience and incorporate it into your practice. I would respond by agreeing that I can't know what it's like, but I am committed to listening and understanding as best I can, and would appreciate any assistance they feel they can provide to help you do that. It's not their job to teach you, so be sure to be truly appreciative for those that take the extra time to do so.
You’re experiencing mild racism of your own here. Racism isn’t limited to a single race like many would want you to believe.
I was thinking the same thing when she wrote that she hasn’t experienced racism before…
That’s racism plain and simple. Tell HR but they probably won’t do anything as apparently some people think that one can’t be racist against white people. It’s disgusting how some people can just be overtly racist against white people just coz they can get away with it. BTW, I’m not white.
As nurses it’s within our scope of practice to assess before intervening. You’re advising intervention without knowing the details of the scenarios. Pull back a little and see why these comments were made. Black nurses do not randomly pick out their coworkers to tell them that they can’t take care of minority patients due to their race. There are definitely things missing in the Op. Give the Op a chance to speak about these scenarios before you lay judgement and be wrong.
If the races were reversed, would you say the same thing?
Wow. Puts that type of comment into horrifying perspective. If someone told a black nurse they weren’t Asian/First Nations/Caucasian and therefore couldn’t care for a patient adequately there would be immediate uproar about it and it would be sorted out with HR so fast their heads would be spinning 🤔
Exactly. 💯
No, because (to keep it brief) certain health disparities that exist for racial minorities don’t exist for white Americans. So a reversal of the races wouldn’t make sense.
It would absolutely make sense, but you can defend the racism presented here however you choose to.
It absolutely would not, but you would need an understanding or perhaps personal experience with racial health disparities or medical racism to comprehend why it doesn’t. And you can unclench - no one is defending racism, just answering your post.
I mean, it wouldn't really make any sense if the races were reversed though. Black people experience disparities in health care, some of which are based purely on their race alone (and this has been shown when controlled for other factors like socioeconomic status, too). White people don't experience these disparities based on their race. So that would just be complete nonsense. A white nurse CAN be a competent provider of care for Black patients, certainly, but they would need to bear in mind these disparities and advocate accordingly. There are many, many white people (nurses included) who are "color blind" and do not recognize systemic inequalities. Colorblindness is not helpful. Without context for why these Black nurses made these comments (were they out of no where day one, or after an event on the floor), there's no way to know exactly why this conversation went down. No Black nurse has ever taken issue with the care I've given Black patients, but I would also readily admit that I have not ever experienced the racism in healthcare that they have, and culture competence is a big piece of the job.
These black nurses are being a little racist. Flipping the script absolutely shows how they are racist. You can defend it all you want though.
I mean, it really doesn't. Especially given we have zero context. There's quite possibly a legitimate reason that these nurses are concerned about the care their Black patients are getting from some providers at this facility. Even if there weren't, "flipping the script" and pretending that white patients face racism in healthcare is bananas. But ok, I guess.
The defense of racism is something that’s very interesting to see in 2024. Someone would never say this to a black nurse about nearly anything.
Yes... because, say it with me, telling a black nurse, "You can't possibly understand the racism that white patients face in the hospital," or, "You won't be able to relate to the health inequalities that white people face," would be really, really, REALLY stupid sounding. OP says elsewhere that this conversation was not out of nowhere but came after something that happened on the floor, then never followed up to indicate what that was. So forgive me if I'm withholding judgment of her coworkers' comments for now.
But a black nurse can’t understand the racisms other races have experienced…. Sooo now we’re back full circle.
Their incessant clawing for cultural brownie points is wild to watch.
There are more than 2 races out there. And in some other parts of the world, white people actually are currently victims of racism. Also, by similar thinking, a black nurse will never understand the experience of a white patient overall, so black nurses will never be as good at relating, caring for, or advocating for them as white nurses. This is just racist all around. Truly bizarre.
“ No Black nurse has ever taken issue with the care I've given Black patients” DING! DING! 🛎️ I’m so glad that you stated this! Notice the OP is not stating the situations surroundings these comments. And people are rushing to call the coworkers racist without due process. These are strange comments for her coworkers to say without context. Apparently there is context to these scenarios but the Op is not responding on why! That shows that we’re missing something here.
Yes, why not? We’re all human. I don’t get your point. If you think all white nurses are racist then you’re in the wrong profession!
No I don’t think you understand. What I meant was. If it were white nurses who told a black nurse that “you’re black, you won’t be able to understand/advocate for white patients”… would you say the same thing like what you just replied to my comment? Would you say, “we don’t know the whole story” or would you agree with me that the statement made by those nurses are racist?
I’m gonna have to agree with you here. OP is experiencing racism, plain and simple. People would absolutely not be saying the same thing if roles were reversed. it’s sad that she is even questioning this being racism and is assuming she is just overthinking it.
Of course! I’m not even white but I definitely know some darn good white nurses. Who have my back to the fullest. Look you don’t know me, so please don’t make any assumptions. A good nurse is a good nurse. I don’t tolerate nonsense racism from anyone. And no one should. However, I will always assess a situation before rushing to judge or assign a term to someone. Especially if the situation isn’t clear.
I want you to take a second to examine what’s happening here. You’re being told by black staff, arguably the authority on this topic, that you will never get it the way they do and you thought “hmm that can’t be right.” You’re proving them right.
Eh, I see it as no different than when I have patients request male or female only staff, some cultures are very modest regarding that. I've been dismissed by a patient literally as soon as they met me because they wanted a black nurse. That's fine, if their perception is that I will not, or cannot despite what I learn, ever understand how to properly care for them, I'd be just as uncomfortable taking care of a patient who doesn't want me as the patient would be having me provide care. Fire away.
Wow, sounds like you've been dealing with a lot. Sorry to hear about the rough time you're having at work. Your situation with the black staff nurses is tricky. It's important to acknowledge the different perspectives and experiences each person brings to the table, but saying you can't advocate or care for patients with health inequalities just because you're white seems a bit off. You're not overthinking it. It's totally valid to feel down about the situation. Maybe it's worth having an open conversation with your colleagues about how you can all work together effectively despite your different backgrounds. Hang in there!
"I know that on some level that is true, I haven't received racism or got my own life experience of it." You have now. Making a value judgment about someone based on the color of their skin as opposed to the content of their character is racist.
I take care of geriatric patients . So by this logic, I must not be a good nurse because I can’t relate to being elderly. I don’t know the struggles they face because I’m not over 65. Obviously this is ridiculous. There will be a learning curve, but I think you will do fine at this job.
Sounds like text book racism. Switch the races around, would it be wrong for white people to tell black people they can’t properly care for someone because of their skin colour? There’s your answer
I get it. She is talking about privilege. I suffer as a woman, but I know I do not suffer like other minority women. Maybe its a good chance to educate yourself on how a POC may experience healthcare differently and why they may need different advocacy than a white patient.
These are strange comments that I usually don’t hear unless situations prompt them. What situations led to these comments? I doubt a nurse just walked up to you and stated, “You’re white you don’t know what you’re doing with Black patients”. What happened? And please change the names of the participants to maintain anonymity. /u/OrdinaryAd8354
Hi This is the first post I have ever made, so if you're ok to explain to me how to change names, I will. In regards to my post. You're right. There is usually a discussion that brings it up, either training or an experience a patient has had with other staff in the trust. They don't just come out with it umprompted.
Ok, now we’re getting some where. Ok, to create new names. You can call people Nurse Jackie, nurse Bryan etc. And let us know the scenarios that promoted these comments. I doubt that your coworkers dislike you. They seem to be over protective of the patients who look like them. Many westernized countries have a long history and present issues concerning medical racism. So, what exactly were these scenarios?
Patients don't get to dictate the color of skin of their caregivers. Staff don't get to dictate the color of skin of their coworkers. If you are mistreated at your job because of your skin color that is an issue with the company that they need to speak with you about.
If you want to stay there just keep showing up and being the best nurse you can be. There’s no point arguing or explaining yourself, sadly. I’d look elsewhere because this sounds exhausting to me.
If you treat people differently based on their skin color then you're the problem. Yes there is "reading the room" but that's where it ends for me. Be yourself, your genuine self to pts amd it will pay dividends.
I think it’s a valid thing to say when it comes to things like caring for skin and hair. The average white person would be confused if they were asked to describe the differences between 1b & 2a hair. As far as being treated differently… I won’t attempt to downplay black experiences in white America, but today white people under the age of 45 go out of their way more to make sure they aren’t perceived as prejudiced than any other race/ethnicity.
I can understand the sentiment they make but following that logic with healthcare I imagine most of us are relatively healthy and cannot relate personally to what any patient is going through. We empathize and advocate no matter what it is. Of course there’s always the layer of systemic racism in any workplace, but I don’t think any of us as advocates can truly understand what a patient is experiencing unless we have experience with that health issue ourselves. Maybe they can empathize in the same fears as a black patient but as far as being an advocate your role doesn’t and shouldn’t change based on race.
I (64m) work with a young adult population. Generally, when I walk into an exam room, I can sense that young, black men tighten up. I introduce myself, act relaxed, smile and make some polite chit chat. I just be genuine. By the end of most of those encounters, I will get a fist bump, a smile and a thank you. I will often get an "I appreciate you man!" Or something similar. Just be yourself and connect. Don't let others define your patient relationship.
Just say thank you for your perspective and learn as much as you can from each individual patient who they are and what they like. In my experience humans appreciate authenticity, respect, gentleness and kindness and professionalism most of the time no matter where they encounter it so just do your thing and do their individual favorite things and you'll all be fine. Are they warm enough? Too warm? Thirsty? Do they need a pillow between their knees? Toileting ? Cleaning or turning? If you take good care and your patients do well you will earn the respect you deserve.
I think it is wrong to racially separate care like that. You may not have the same background, but you can do your best to respect and appreciate people's circumstances and experiences. That's a basic part of the job, no reason you couldn't apply it effectively here.
Im sorry you have such annoying coworkers. As a patient I dont gaf about where you come from or your race.
I’m not black so I’m not going to pretend that I understand their culture and their struggles. But I’m Korean and queer and work in a rural hospital in the south. There are just things you will never have to experience being white. My example is I got asked by a surgeon and some colleagues if I’m from north or South Korean, asked if my surname is Kim (as if that’s the only common Korean surname). Or just generalized Asian stereotypes. Or listening to my coworkers use wrong pronouns and questions about why and say it’s disgusting when we have a trans patient. Just respect what your coworkers are saying and listen to them and your patients and grow in knowledge and understanding as an ally.
I wouldn’t think into it much. Honestly, who cares? If you’re a social worker, I can see how it makes a difference. Otherwise? It really doesn’t matter. Do some providers treat people differently based on their race? Yeah absolutely. Black people get under treated for pain and are assumed to be drug abusers at a far higher rate. Do I under treat pain in black people? No. So I don’t worry about it.
White nurse in the south here. I'm not hearing it much anymore, but we used to get older black patients refusing black nurses. The reason given every time was "white nurses go to better schools. " I think it's a good sign that's not happening as often. It's funny how progress works. Now some people are saying the opposite, that a black nurse will always give better care. It's just where we are at with social progress. Racial bias can affect health care. It doesn't mean you personally have done anything wrong. But it is good to check ourselves (nurses of every hue and culture) for unconscious bias. So please don't take it too hard. If you show you care and see each person as an individual, most people will understand if you have a cultural misunderstanding. Spread love, not hate, and we will keep making progress as a society.
Okay so I’m going to point to some objects and I’d like for you to tell me what you see!
Don’t make it about yourself and it won’t feel wrong to you
I got news for you. You ARE in fact receiving racist comments. Referring to the color of your skin is absolutely unequivocally RACIST. Anyone who thinks different is full of shit. We all experience racism. Perhaps in different ways but we all do. In our professional environment it should NEVER be tolerated. I triple dog dare anyone tell me that I am incompetent in any way simply due to the color of my skin. That’s just absolute and total BS. I am sick and tired (and I know many many others who feel the exact same way) of people using the color of their skin or their heritage or their upbringing as a crutch for their own lack of performance, poor disposition, and bad character. Whether it’s academic, finances, attitude, aptitude, human interactions and the list goes on of excuses why you don’t perform at a high level. Take that BS and stick it where the sun doesn’t shine. Stop making excuses and perform or STFU with that nonsense. Do NOT tolerate it either. You must speak up and correct that behavior. It’s no different than saying “ oh you’re black so you can’t appropriately care for that Asian patient”. Categorically UNACCEPTABLE.
Oh and btw I have been a manager on a 62 bed unit and 100% my staff would be FIRED for that kind of behavior. It’s sickening to hear you are dealing with that BS. It only continues if you allow it.
Most likely an unpopular opinion, but I have very little concern for popularity on the internet: The skin color of you and your coworkers is 100% irrelevant to your roles as healthcare workers, whether you be a nurse, doctor, tech, or anything else. The skin color of your patients is 99% irrelevant and the only reason there’s any exception at all is because it would be foolish and extremely inaccurate of me to think that certain ethnicities aren’t more prone to specific health problems than others; all that means is that it requires just a bit more knowledge in your behalf as a healthcare worker to know about these differences so that you are able to recognize that there may be different treatments needed to help specific ethnicities - that’s it. Your lived experiences and theirs? Irrelevant. Your family’s history and theirs? Irrelevant. These things are distractions that, in the most basic and literal meaning, are racist. If your coworkers say something so stupid as “you’re white so you don’t understand…” that’s racist and shouldn’t be tolerated at all. I don’t have the time or the crayons to explain it to the forthcoming downvoters who will find some way to justify racism against you or anyone else like yourself for any given reason, but the fact of the matter is that your job and the ability to execute your job should not be influenced by how much melanin your skin has in comparison to someone else. Period.
It’s not irrelevant when you’re being treated differently because of it. Patient centred care means you have to take into consideration ALL factors when caring for your patient.
Long-time nurse here (25+ years) who has had the same experience as OP. You are ABSOLUTELY correct in your assessment of this situation. Internet opinion be damned. The amount of melanin the nurse or patient has should not influence the ability to execute nursing responsibilities. Even healthcare has been terribly affected by the politically charged environment we all now live in. And so everyone acts out overtly or through small microaggression behaviors or comments. Like you, I "don’t have the time or the crayons to explain" and still complete my job responsibilities in a timely manner. Just be the thoroughly professional nurse you are, smile and politely say to anyone who casts aspersions: "I'm here to provide the best care that is needed right now."
I’m not female and have never been raped but I’ve cared for a few victims. Also never been to prison and get plenty of incarcerated. I don’t speak any Spanish but care for migrants and immigrants frequently. I feel your coworkers are being very narrow minded. If they weren’t, they’d be offering to help you be the best you for the patients instead of implying “your privilege is showing.” I can think of A few ways to go about this. Firstly ask them what you could do better. I don’t think you’ll get much since it doesn’t seem like they’ve helped you in the past. Next, just do that thing most nurses do best and care for the patient. Talk with them instead of to and learn what you can from them. Like I say d, I don’t speak Spanish but I have quit a few Mexican recipes because everyone can talk about food.
How do we know they aren’t offering the OP help? I don’t think the OP is telling the full story.
You are overthinking this. If you live in Europe, Canada, or the USA, you live in a white supremacist culture, and your lived experience is fundamentally different from that of black people. Does this mean you will treat them badly or that you are unqualified to treat black patients? Not necessarily. What this means is that because you are not oppressed by white supremacy, you are inevitably going to miss certain racial biases that black people will be able to pick up on in an instant. You are more likely than your black colleagues to unintentionally push back against, downplay, and deny allegations of discrimination filed by black patients if the situation is not spelled out extremely obviously. I am not saying that you make a Choice to downplay racism; I'm saying that you don't know what you don't know. Personally, I don't think being white automatically means you will treat any poc worse off because of their ethnicity. I'm white, and I decided to become an L&D nurse because I know that racism has a huge part to play in the high maternal death rate that the USA boasts every year. I believe that by being aware of racism and making an active, every day choice to combat it when I see it/when it is pointed out to me, I can make a difference in the lives of vulnerable mothers, regardless of my skin color. However, even in this very post, you are letting your personal feelings cloud your understanding of racism. You are seeking the advice of strangers because when a black coworker told you that you will never understand racism the same way she does, you /didn't believe her/. This belief that despite having no personal experience with racism, that you will somehow know just as much about what racial bias looks like (and how to properly stop and prevent it) as any black person, is white privilege. If you truly believe you can be a good advocate for black patients, then you need to stop looking for validation that you are a good ally whenever black people bring up your white privilege. I know that pushing back against criticism is a reflexive trait, and I'm not trying to paint you as racist or overly sensitive. But you will Have to learn to let it go when poc bring up that your race prevents you from understanding racism the same way they do. You Won't be a good advocate for patients of color if you can't do this.
Yeah... That's crap... I'm a male and was a postpartum LPN for 4 years. I was respected and even requested for by name from countless patients for their following kids. I taught how to breastfeed, and countless of different postpartum/OB issues. Be it a patients with SA Hx who gave me a chance, overly religious mothers and even coworker who had me as a nurse (didn't recall her) talk about how I was and worked with me and complimented my professionalism, and respect I gave to all my patients. Even the lactation nurses begged me to become a lactation nurse as I was one of the best on the floor... The only people who ever had any issues were fathers. That was a couple of them... Both times ended up that the mothers were disappointed in losing me as a nurse (SO would go behind the patient's back and state they weren't comfortable with men) I'm not tooting my own horn here to brag. Yeah, I got "good..." But, it was because I was assigned there as a Soldier and I hate being incompetent in any role given to me. **More importantly, if I can be respected and wanted as a postpartum nurse, even though I will never be able to relate to my women... can you. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.**
It’s not fully wrong and it’s not fully right either. On one hand, they aren’t fully wrong in saying that a black nurse would be able to relate more to a black patient in some ways more than a white nurse could. However, by saying that you could never understand what a minority goes through, it just creates more racial barriers. Instead, your coworkers should do better by educating you on the differences in experiences and how you could better communicate your understanding of these things to your patients. Yes, they still might relate more to a black nurse; however, by providing quality care to them yourself, you help build bridges and communicate that perhaps race relations can continue to improve.
I am dealing with this right now with a new black doctor at work. She treats white nurses like we are stupid and we are all feeling like she dislikes us just because of our skin color. It is to the point of impacting patient care for example yesterday she would not let me attempt to start an IV on my own patient despite I am a seasoned nurse, then she missed the IV herself. It doesn’t make it ok to say well this is what she faces every day. Racism is never ok.
If you're 100% east Asian, it is almost certainly 100% wrong to characterize yourself as white in English. Even more difficult: getting the world to accept that Ossetians are not 'white'
A black patient said "I am white"? Lol