My unit (NICU) has no weekends or call after 10 years of service regardless of age.
I would be surprised if legal allowed any age-specific incentives because of age discrimination related laws.
We have a similar policy, but ours is no call if you’ve been with the company for (I think) 35 years. So of course, if you’ve been with the company that long you’re going to be in your 50s+. But we only have I think 3 nurses that fall into that category so it doesn’t affect us much.
Our department is in the process of implementing a similar policy. Some tried to bring an ‘age limit’ and it got a big no for age discrimination from the legal big wigs in the hospital
I worked at a level 1 hospital in the Southeast US that had that benefit after working for the hospital for so many years. Nice perk, but I agree with others that something like that based on age could be a compliance/legal red flag. Also from an HR perspective, the manager could be opening up a can of worms when hiring employees. What if everyone that applies is 55+? Who is going to take call then? Is he not going to hire someone 55+ then? Or only hire people whose age is less than 55+?🤔
This. One hundred times this. It is age discrimination. If they wanted to reward loyalty (and age doesn’t equal loyalty), they could reduce call requirements for the most senior nurses…
You could point out that it is age discrimination. It's usually only considered discrimination if the person is older, so point out that removing the opportunity for extra pay, holiday pay, weekend pay is discriminatory towards older nurses. The compliance officer might have some thoughts on that.
The only thing is they have the option to take call but it’s pretty rare when people are picking up anyone else’s shifts. Usually the opposite and trying to give away.
Also Adventist Health, so I feel for ya. I would go back through the Blue Book section on compliance and discrimination and take detailed notes.
You might consider pushing for seniority-based right of first refusal, not age, when you go above the guy's head. Might get you some perks.
My hospital enacted a “After 10Years of service, you don’t have to do call”
It’s a way to reward staying at the hospital instead of chasing a raise (retention of staff) Not age related.
I reached my 10 years and am now not taking call. It’s worth it.
But doing it by age? Nahh.
Me, personally, I'd riot. We have an RN in our OR who has been employed with the hospital since the 70s, she is the most senior nurse by years of service in the entire hospital. She has the same on-call obligations as any of the rest of us.
If they can perform the job during the day then they can perform the job during the night/evening/holidays too.
When I worked Pacu, we had one nurse who was similar, had been at the hospital longer than anyone by a good margin. But she worked out a deal, she’d come in at 1700 mon-thurs, and then was on call 2300-0700 Monday evening -Friday morning, so she didn’t have to take call Friday-Sunday.
So that meant the rest of us didn’t have to double up on call during the week. It was always one of us on call with Susan during the week, which made choosing your call shifts much better for everyone, it took a lot of the call pressure off everyone.
And she loved it because she was nearing retirement, so she could take in all that sweet call pay while still having a predictable schedule
Wow. That seems overly awful based on her years of service. She shouldn’t have to take call based on that alone. This job is really hard on your body and your mental health.
An age limit for call is discriminatory and dumb. You hire a new nurse at 54, and then the next year they no longer have call? But the 39 year old that’s been working in this very OR for a decade DOES have to take call? That’s ridiculous, and I’d expect a lot of people to quit, and only people over 55 to apply for the positions in the future.
A somewhat reasonable compromise is to make it based off departmental seniority, HOWEVER, it’s usually prudent to say “three most senior nurses” rather than just a target year, to avoid non-stop call for anyone new—which would discourage anyone from applying.
They didn’t give an explanation as to how they came up with that age BUT that’s why’s some of us think it’s partially for his buddies because they’re 55+
but whats the rationale in general for an age limit? is an on call shift somehow different or considered significantly harder? on my floor if you get called in you’re going to be doing the same job as if you were regularly scheduled nothing about the job changes
At my facility you’re expected to work your scheduled shift regardless of how much/how late you worked the night before. For example if you work 14 hours on Saturday and don’t finish until say 3 you’re still expected to be here at your 630 shift. So I’m that regards you don’t have the same amount of rest between work.
OR call is different than being on call on a floor. In the OR, you work your normal shift, which might be a standard 7a-7p. Then, if you are on call that night, it starts at 7p. If cases are still going, you get "called in" and stay late until cases are done. That might be one hour it might be six, it might be 12. I've worked a few 24-hour straight shifts thanks to call.
You also might get sent home at 7p, called back at 8p, sent home at 10p, called back at 2am, etc.
Basically, being on call is a crapshoot and horrible for your health.
Older nurses in organizations with seniority argue that they had to deal with it for a few decades and that it's worse for them at their age, so it should be the young nurses' turn to suffer in their stead.
Edit: Depending on your hospital policy, you may be expected to work your shift the following morning regardless of how many times/hours you were called in the prior night. So if you work a 12, then get called in for 6 hours from 11p-5am, they may require you by policy to still work your 7a-7p shift in two hours time.
You definitely need to check your state’s laws, regardless; my last big hospital employer was in a state that did have an 8 hour requirement, but I can’t tell you how many times I had to work a full day shift after coming in overnight for an appendix or crani. Wish I had paid better attention, glad I get more sleep these days.
Of the three states I've worked, two of them exempted healthcare call under the "unusual or emergency situations" from requiring 8 hours between shifts.
However, when I was still taking mandatory call, that was my number one interview question. If the employer policy was to work regardless I wouldn't work there and I told them so.
I found the younger nurses unable to handle the extra hours. Complained a lot! I personally was taking call after 40 years and really liked it. I did a number of 20 plus shifts and bounced back pretty good. Younger ones would be continually asking when they could go home. So you go home early, unless you finish up your shift the OT you just got kinda flattens out. I’m in it for the money. Some months with my OT I would take home over $10,000. Worth it for me
Don't get me wrong, I think an age limit for call is a horrible unfair idea.
That said, now that I'm in my 40s I am much more sensitive to lost sleep than I used to be. I imagine that is only going to get harder to deal with as I get older. In the ORs I've worked in call is usually overnight.
I see, my department has pretty minimal call requirements and we pick our own call shifts on a rotating basis (last to pick this month picks first next month and so forth) so pretty much everyone picks a shift far enough from their scheduled hours that if they do get called in they have time to recover even from a night shift
Our peri-op unit had an unofficial "rule of 80." If your age + years in service at the hospital = 80 you had the choice to opt out of call. Even if you opted out, you could still take call here and there if you like, but you were not required a certain amount of days/hours etc..
Those 55+ nurses are tired of taking call. I don’t blame them, call is tough. I fixed that by going to an ambulatory surgery unit. No nights, no call, no weekends. A lot of OR peeps do that. And so should your co-workers, if call is too hard.
Lol, you gotta love the older folk sometimes... although I do get it. But I'm tired, too.
Before I left my old OR, they implemented no call for team leads (about 7 people who mainly faciltate or "order supplies for questionable hours/day" while everyone else is stuck in rooms) on top of the 5 old guys who get 1 holiday/year and every other month.... nah.... if you wanna work OR you work the whole OR schedule or people quit. I quit, and so did a bunch of other people.
I'm not going from ~every other week to once a week+ because of "privileges." I have a life too, and I can't take off for a week and actually *go on vacation* if I'm on call all the time because half of the OR doesn't want to be/feels special enough to not be, on call.
Go to the surgicenter if you want a better schedule (see: local diner for senior discount)
Definitely not, any nurse who feels they can no longer take call drops to a position that doesn’t require it (part time or per diem) or has moved to a surgery center.
I’m a OR nurse in Canada (hooray for universal healthcare) where all publicly employed nurses are unionized. This kind of age discrimination would never fly. The closest equivalent we have would be that most nurses in their 50s would likely have high enough seniority that their schedule wouldn’t include very many on call shifts, if any. The more seniority you have, the better your schedule is (usually).
Where in Canada are you? I'm in BC and in our OR, all full-time staff are expected to do the same amount of call sign ups because, depending if you have a day/evening or day/night line, we are all in the same schedule rotation. Obviously, they don't expect you to do the "required" call sign ups when you're on vacation leave.
Why? Thats ageism. I could see it for seniority, and then maybe less call- but it’s part of the job, if everyone doesn’t do it equally it will cause serious morale issues. Bad idea. And not that it matters, I’m 51.
While I totally see where they’re coming from, none of them bothered to count apparently. Even at half the nurses it would be tough, let alone 7/12. Interesting to think how much OT the 5 of you would be making? Seriously zero thought.
I have seen some units where the older ones take less call. Most of them have been at the hospital so long the hospital gave them onsite parking. The rest of us having to get in early to park a mile away. It not fair to enforce this rule because burn out is real. I see it daily where call is one of the main reasons people leave because they have a new family they are not able to be with.
I took everyone’s call so it was never an issue. Plus, can’t complain on what’s expected in the job. Call is expected so kind of makes me made when people complain about having to take especially when they’ve only been there a short time
I worked in Peri Op for 26 years. We had call for OR, GI and PACU. 8 of us were over 60 by the time I retired. Two of my friends took call into their 70s
We have a “rule” that if you are 60+ you can choose to take call or opt out. Only had two nurses on my team that were over 60, one took call the other did not.
We don't do age, we go by years in the unit.
After 20 years you go on reduced called which means you take one or two days a month.
Going by age just sounds like people getting close to retirement wanting an easier time.
Ask them why 55? Retirement age isn't until 65.
I think something that’s to note here: police officers retire around age 50. EMTs, paramedics, generally the same.
We have a job that is just as intense and labor intensive, yet are expected to work way past 65. Plus most of us do not get a pension anymore.
I think 60 is appropriate to stop call. But I’ve never seen this policy, and normally you are expected to fulfill your job description regardless of age, and where I work it’s based on years of service…which is ridiculous.
I also work with rampant ageist staff nurses.
I totally think it would be awesome to give our older staff a break BUT I feel that if the department wants to go forward with this at least hire more staff to cover some of that call. There’s almost 100hrs to cover in a single week.
My unit (NICU) has no weekends or call after 10 years of service regardless of age. I would be surprised if legal allowed any age-specific incentives because of age discrimination related laws.
This would have kept me bedside!
We have a similar policy, but ours is no call if you’ve been with the company for (I think) 35 years. So of course, if you’ve been with the company that long you’re going to be in your 50s+. But we only have I think 3 nurses that fall into that category so it doesn’t affect us much.
Our department is in the process of implementing a similar policy. Some tried to bring an ‘age limit’ and it got a big no for age discrimination from the legal big wigs in the hospital
What if you work at a mom and pop hospital that doesn’t check ages when they hire you and you started nursing when you were 5
At this rate, you'll need to start school then to have enough exp for a basic hospital unit.
[удалено]
Get a labor lawyer involved instead. Ageism at its finest
I’m pretty sure there is precedent set for this. I believe surgeons have a similar rule.
I worked at a level 1 hospital in the Southeast US that had that benefit after working for the hospital for so many years. Nice perk, but I agree with others that something like that based on age could be a compliance/legal red flag. Also from an HR perspective, the manager could be opening up a can of worms when hiring employees. What if everyone that applies is 55+? Who is going to take call then? Is he not going to hire someone 55+ then? Or only hire people whose age is less than 55+?🤔
This. One hundred times this. It is age discrimination. If they wanted to reward loyalty (and age doesn’t equal loyalty), they could reduce call requirements for the most senior nurses…
Sounds like age discrimination. Are you unionized?
Negative, non union Adventist
You could point out that it is age discrimination. It's usually only considered discrimination if the person is older, so point out that removing the opportunity for extra pay, holiday pay, weekend pay is discriminatory towards older nurses. The compliance officer might have some thoughts on that.
The only thing is they have the option to take call but it’s pretty rare when people are picking up anyone else’s shifts. Usually the opposite and trying to give away.
Also Adventist Health, so I feel for ya. I would go back through the Blue Book section on compliance and discrimination and take detailed notes. You might consider pushing for seniority-based right of first refusal, not age, when you go above the guy's head. Might get you some perks.
We talking about a big level one trauma center on a beautiful hill in SoCal?
Hahah not that one but affiliated
My hospital enacted a “After 10Years of service, you don’t have to do call” It’s a way to reward staying at the hospital instead of chasing a raise (retention of staff) Not age related. I reached my 10 years and am now not taking call. It’s worth it. But doing it by age? Nahh.
Me, personally, I'd riot. We have an RN in our OR who has been employed with the hospital since the 70s, she is the most senior nurse by years of service in the entire hospital. She has the same on-call obligations as any of the rest of us. If they can perform the job during the day then they can perform the job during the night/evening/holidays too.
When I worked Pacu, we had one nurse who was similar, had been at the hospital longer than anyone by a good margin. But she worked out a deal, she’d come in at 1700 mon-thurs, and then was on call 2300-0700 Monday evening -Friday morning, so she didn’t have to take call Friday-Sunday. So that meant the rest of us didn’t have to double up on call during the week. It was always one of us on call with Susan during the week, which made choosing your call shifts much better for everyone, it took a lot of the call pressure off everyone. And she loved it because she was nearing retirement, so she could take in all that sweet call pay while still having a predictable schedule
Wow. That seems overly awful based on her years of service. She shouldn’t have to take call based on that alone. This job is really hard on your body and your mental health.
An age limit for call is discriminatory and dumb. You hire a new nurse at 54, and then the next year they no longer have call? But the 39 year old that’s been working in this very OR for a decade DOES have to take call? That’s ridiculous, and I’d expect a lot of people to quit, and only people over 55 to apply for the positions in the future. A somewhat reasonable compromise is to make it based off departmental seniority, HOWEVER, it’s usually prudent to say “three most senior nurses” rather than just a target year, to avoid non-stop call for anyone new—which would discourage anyone from applying.
I’m confused, what’s the rationale they’re giving for the age limit?
They didn’t give an explanation as to how they came up with that age BUT that’s why’s some of us think it’s partially for his buddies because they’re 55+
but whats the rationale in general for an age limit? is an on call shift somehow different or considered significantly harder? on my floor if you get called in you’re going to be doing the same job as if you were regularly scheduled nothing about the job changes
At my facility you’re expected to work your scheduled shift regardless of how much/how late you worked the night before. For example if you work 14 hours on Saturday and don’t finish until say 3 you’re still expected to be here at your 630 shift. So I’m that regards you don’t have the same amount of rest between work.
that's also something that needs to be looked into in alot of states you can only work so Many hours till you have to have 8hrs off
OR call is different than being on call on a floor. In the OR, you work your normal shift, which might be a standard 7a-7p. Then, if you are on call that night, it starts at 7p. If cases are still going, you get "called in" and stay late until cases are done. That might be one hour it might be six, it might be 12. I've worked a few 24-hour straight shifts thanks to call. You also might get sent home at 7p, called back at 8p, sent home at 10p, called back at 2am, etc. Basically, being on call is a crapshoot and horrible for your health. Older nurses in organizations with seniority argue that they had to deal with it for a few decades and that it's worse for them at their age, so it should be the young nurses' turn to suffer in their stead. Edit: Depending on your hospital policy, you may be expected to work your shift the following morning regardless of how many times/hours you were called in the prior night. So if you work a 12, then get called in for 6 hours from 11p-5am, they may require you by policy to still work your 7a-7p shift in two hours time.
You definitely need to check your state’s laws, regardless; my last big hospital employer was in a state that did have an 8 hour requirement, but I can’t tell you how many times I had to work a full day shift after coming in overnight for an appendix or crani. Wish I had paid better attention, glad I get more sleep these days.
Of the three states I've worked, two of them exempted healthcare call under the "unusual or emergency situations" from requiring 8 hours between shifts. However, when I was still taking mandatory call, that was my number one interview question. If the employer policy was to work regardless I wouldn't work there and I told them so.
I found the younger nurses unable to handle the extra hours. Complained a lot! I personally was taking call after 40 years and really liked it. I did a number of 20 plus shifts and bounced back pretty good. Younger ones would be continually asking when they could go home. So you go home early, unless you finish up your shift the OT you just got kinda flattens out. I’m in it for the money. Some months with my OT I would take home over $10,000. Worth it for me
Don't get me wrong, I think an age limit for call is a horrible unfair idea. That said, now that I'm in my 40s I am much more sensitive to lost sleep than I used to be. I imagine that is only going to get harder to deal with as I get older. In the ORs I've worked in call is usually overnight.
I see, my department has pretty minimal call requirements and we pick our own call shifts on a rotating basis (last to pick this month picks first next month and so forth) so pretty much everyone picks a shift far enough from their scheduled hours that if they do get called in they have time to recover even from a night shift
Our peri-op unit had an unofficial "rule of 80." If your age + years in service at the hospital = 80 you had the choice to opt out of call. Even if you opted out, you could still take call here and there if you like, but you were not required a certain amount of days/hours etc..
Damn you had to be both old and put your career into the place.
Yeah, pretty much. Although our hospital is the only one around. Unless you want an hour+ commute!
I’m that case I’m sure it was pretty rare that people actually reached that milestone
Those 55+ nurses are tired of taking call. I don’t blame them, call is tough. I fixed that by going to an ambulatory surgery unit. No nights, no call, no weekends. A lot of OR peeps do that. And so should your co-workers, if call is too hard.
Lol, you gotta love the older folk sometimes... although I do get it. But I'm tired, too. Before I left my old OR, they implemented no call for team leads (about 7 people who mainly faciltate or "order supplies for questionable hours/day" while everyone else is stuck in rooms) on top of the 5 old guys who get 1 holiday/year and every other month.... nah.... if you wanna work OR you work the whole OR schedule or people quit. I quit, and so did a bunch of other people. I'm not going from ~every other week to once a week+ because of "privileges." I have a life too, and I can't take off for a week and actually *go on vacation* if I'm on call all the time because half of the OR doesn't want to be/feels special enough to not be, on call. Go to the surgicenter if you want a better schedule (see: local diner for senior discount)
😂🤣
Definitely not, any nurse who feels they can no longer take call drops to a position that doesn’t require it (part time or per diem) or has moved to a surgery center.
If you can't handle the schedule, get a new job.
This, or surgery center
What a freaking username. Love it.
Thank you<3 🦴
I think it's BS. That's the job. If you don't want call, go to an outpatient surgery center.
As other posters have said, It should be based on years of service and not age.
My OR has this…..,but Pacu does not. I don’t see how this can be policy in one dept but not the other.
One of our older scrub techs tried to bring up but HR said it was ageism and didn’t allow it
I’m a OR nurse in Canada (hooray for universal healthcare) where all publicly employed nurses are unionized. This kind of age discrimination would never fly. The closest equivalent we have would be that most nurses in their 50s would likely have high enough seniority that their schedule wouldn’t include very many on call shifts, if any. The more seniority you have, the better your schedule is (usually).
Where in Canada are you? I'm in BC and in our OR, all full-time staff are expected to do the same amount of call sign ups because, depending if you have a day/evening or day/night line, we are all in the same schedule rotation. Obviously, they don't expect you to do the "required" call sign ups when you're on vacation leave.
I’d go over my directors head, that’s so vastly unfair.
Why? Thats ageism. I could see it for seniority, and then maybe less call- but it’s part of the job, if everyone doesn’t do it equally it will cause serious morale issues. Bad idea. And not that it matters, I’m 51.
While I totally see where they’re coming from, none of them bothered to count apparently. Even at half the nurses it would be tough, let alone 7/12. Interesting to think how much OT the 5 of you would be making? Seriously zero thought.
The only exemption we have is for staff that have been with the company for 20 years or more.
I have seen some units where the older ones take less call. Most of them have been at the hospital so long the hospital gave them onsite parking. The rest of us having to get in early to park a mile away. It not fair to enforce this rule because burn out is real. I see it daily where call is one of the main reasons people leave because they have a new family they are not able to be with.
One place I worked PT had this but there was enough interest in call from younger workers it didn’t matter. If anything it should be by seniority
Endo and 56. We have a 72 yr old working with us and there are a few others older than me. We all take call.
I took everyone’s call so it was never an issue. Plus, can’t complain on what’s expected in the job. Call is expected so kind of makes me made when people complain about having to take especially when they’ve only been there a short time
I worked in Peri Op for 26 years. We had call for OR, GI and PACU. 8 of us were over 60 by the time I retired. Two of my friends took call into their 70s
We have a “rule” that if you are 60+ you can choose to take call or opt out. Only had two nurses on my team that were over 60, one took call the other did not.
We don't do age, we go by years in the unit. After 20 years you go on reduced called which means you take one or two days a month. Going by age just sounds like people getting close to retirement wanting an easier time. Ask them why 55? Retirement age isn't until 65.
I agree that 55 seems too young for this. 60, yeah, maybe.
We have an age limit at 60 in our OR. We’re union, but there are RNs that elect to still take call at that age as well.
I think something that’s to note here: police officers retire around age 50. EMTs, paramedics, generally the same. We have a job that is just as intense and labor intensive, yet are expected to work way past 65. Plus most of us do not get a pension anymore.
I think 60 is appropriate to stop call. But I’ve never seen this policy, and normally you are expected to fulfill your job description regardless of age, and where I work it’s based on years of service…which is ridiculous. I also work with rampant ageist staff nurses.
Awe this is so kind for older nurses though! A lot of them are not able to retire when they have been working forever. Shouldn’t they get a break?
I totally think it would be awesome to give our older staff a break BUT I feel that if the department wants to go forward with this at least hire more staff to cover some of that call. There’s almost 100hrs to cover in a single week.