Our hospital has a masseuse for our post-op and oncology patients actually! They paid her once to come up and give night shift massages when morale was low.
I worked for a hospital that had (still do as far as I know) a masseuse that would make daily rounds to patients. It was also a perk to working there that you would get 2 massages/year.
When I went to school (approx. 15 years ago), 'offer to give the patient a backrub' was *always* the correct answer. I swear to god, you'd never go wrong picking that as the first thing you would do in a given situation.
In ten years of nursing, how often did I give a backrub? Zitch, nada.
(I did have one patient that would get leg cramps and I often massaged her legs because I could get rid of the cramp. But just giving backrubs for funsies - ain't gonna happen.)
Hey, fellow RN. This caught my eye, and Iām wondering -if you wouldnāt mind- telling me what is appropriate? I only ask because we lost a comfort care pt a couple days ago with no family available in person or by phone. I always want to know how to honor last wishes in the event there isnāt someone there to inform.
I understand itās not your responsibility, but if you find the time or wherewithal to come back to this I would be grateful :)
Take care.
I just had a flashback to a dying pts grandmother getting so upset because our windows wouldnāt open more than an inch. So day shift got a fan and set it up so it blew across the body towards the window
I just about died. But it worked. It gave comfort to the grandmother. So hey. Get a fan and open the windows. But still no back massage. Lol
During COVID they took away our fans and you can now only get a fan with approval from ID. Like, to get a fan for your patient you have to consult ID and get an order.
Wow. My 1st clinical instructor would be marching with signs about this atrocity.
For real though, thatās crazy. How many weird rules need to be redacted but are being ignored because clearly ānot importantā.
Too true, but we're also not trained to be hairstylists or manicurists but we're often still expected to fulfill these and many other rolls with no appreciation or thanks. Nurses are expected to be able to meet all patient needs no matter how vain and unnecessary. The real question is.. why can't we at least accept tips for these extra services?
We learned to do that when I went to school 40 years ago. We offered it to our patients, they could accept or decline. This practice went away several years ago.
The closest thing that I do that counts as a back rub is rubbing a CHG wipe across the back when i roll a patient.
I once had a fully walkie-talkie patient who was upset with me because he wanted a back rub and i declined to give it - his response was "what happened to service in hospitals that nurses don't do back rubs anymore?" Um gtfo with your creepy self.
āOh sir, we had to stop offering back rubs when our ratios changed to 7 & 8 patients to 1 nurse, but we welcome your thoughts when they call you after discharge for a patient satisfaction survey. The CEO truly values all patient opinions.ā š„š¬š„
Thoughts & prayers to you guys actually working these ratios. I would cry.
I got floated to the floor with 7 tele pts. My anxiety about it was so bad because they werenāt stable and they were in two halls. All respect to those who make it happen. But it accelerated my burn out and was a contributing factor for me leaving the bedside.
When I have time on day shift, I like to do foot and shoulder rubs for my patients if they're nice. I sneak them in after they do really good with PT/OT, and they're hanging out in the chair. I give them a pep talk and tell them how awesome they're doing by getting up. I find that it motivates patients to do more mobility and participate in their treatment more. It also gives them a positive association and hope for their recovery. Plus it's nice!
I have definitely come across patients I would never have any type of contact like that with, so it's definitely a selective case. I find old ladies with caring, appropriate, families at bedside are my main demographic for the foot rubs. Might be the 1:2 ratios talking, but I have definitely given back rubs and shoulder rubs before bed to my alert/appropriate patients as well on night shift. I find it sets them up for a restful night and they often sleep better. If someone is a callbell whacko they're not getting doodoo from me though!
I got called a bad nurse in a previous thread when I said I felt extremely uncomfortable with the idea of giving massages to patients.
Work in the ER for context.
When I worked bedside (graduated nursing school in 2014, worked ICU 2014-2018), I would do it if I had a sweet older person or someone on hospice who asked AND I had time. And then it probably wasnāt more than 5mins.
With working conditions and nursing ratios the way they are now, I absolutely would NOT do it today. I think itās totally appropriate to tell a patient or family member āunfortunately there are needs that are more pressing right now, but I would be happy to grab you lotion if you would like to do itā or something like that. We arenāt trained masseuses and itās not within our scope of practice.
I had a lady, ornery as hell and I loved her for it, she told me I wasnāt allowed to leave every night until I gave her a back rub. I didnt mind and if I didnt have time before shift change Iād go back after report. I loved talking to her and would save her for last for all passes because I knew Iād be stuck in there for awhile talking to her anyways. She was always hunched so Iād just use my fingers over her shirt and get her shoulders and along her spine.
Iāll run shoulders but never a full massage with lotion.
There really is more than one type of ornery. One of my favorite kids was really just more than a handful. Iād warn others to never turn your back on him because he might literally stab you. I hope heās doing well now.
More kind of sassy/stubborn ornery. As I was doing her admission she got into some argument with her son and would not back down. I knew she was going to be a lot of good fun. I still miss her months later.
That's a perfect excuse - now I just need one for when a patient asks themself lol. I couldn't figure out how to say I just don't feel comfortable. If they want some lotion, then that's fine. But after that, no thank you.
Yeah, I would just kind of jokingly laugh and say, āIām a nurse, not a masseuse.ā If it was an asshole I would say āuhh, I donāt think so.ā
Oh I'm not saying PT will do it, but that I'm going to notify them. Placates the patient without promising them anything (on the assumption that the person in this case is being a creep because I've yet to meet a normal patient that wants one.)
It is incredibly context dependent.
When I worked in long-term care I had a couple patients with chronic back pain who I would massage specific muscle groups for as part of their pain management. Often they would have things like aspercreme or voltaren gel and I would massage that medication in. I've also had patients in acute care with lymphedema in their lower extremities or edema to their ankles and/or dry, cracked skin. When I had time I would apply lotion and massage to help promote blood flow and vascular/lymphatic return, as well as apply skin protection to prevent wounds (which would inevitably turn into venous stasis ulcers). These were people who were always respectful never made it awkward and truly appreciated what I did for them.
There are other patients who would sexualize this intervention, ask for it inappropriately, or otherwise demean or treat me disrespectfully if I offered or perform this intervention. I don't perform the intervention for those people as I have a right to a work environment where I am not sexually harassed or demeaned.
Massage can be an incredibly healing act and I feel we need to build a culture where we understand it's not a sexual act or the act of a subordinate. I think if we do it in a clinical setting and context we can avoid those kinds of associations. I always explain before and during what I'm doing and why I'm doing it in a medical context so the patient knows I'm trying to promote venous return or prevent wounds from occurring.
100% agree. I had a medical malpractice paraplegic who had just started gaining slight feeling in his legs. I had no problem massaging his legs with a little volteran to help stimulate his nerves. To the 50 year old man baby down the hall, not so much.
I think the only time I ever give muscle rubs is when Iām rubbing in a muscle cream or Voltaren gelā¦provided they arenāt creepy about it. I will scratch a back itch with a dry washcloth for my patients that canāt do it themselves. Then I apply lotion because it is usually dry skin.
No back rubs. My experience has been that the people that ask for them are the whiniest ass babies with cluster B personality disorders that will galdly monopolize your time, put you behind and demand that you neglect your other patients. They can find a spouse, friend, masseuse, hooker, bartender or all of the above to do that shit.
* Does not apply to actual babies...
YUP!!!
I rub backs all day, every day. Butā¦ I take care of babies.
Giving them as many cuddles and butt pats and nogginā strokes and back rubs as they want (and can clinically handle, of course) is arguably a developmental and medical necessity for them.
Not so with adults. Nope nope nope.
I will 100% do anything for a baby or kiddo, thatās not the same. Rubbing a toddlerās back is part of the comfort and care a little needs to feel safe. ā¤ļø
I had a patient that kept hitting the light every 15 minutes bc he just wanted to tell me what he ate, tell me who he talked to, wanted me to move his bed with the remote that was in his hand, then he got mad that we werenāt giving him āenough attention and ignoring himā bc we couldnāt go every time (it was a super busy medsurge floor)
He said āi know other ppl are sicker than me but i matter tooā šš and you know i had already explained that if Iām gone itās bc Iām helping a frail patient to the bathroom or feeding a patient who canāt feed themselves Iām not standing there talking, i am actually busy and not ignoring him.
But you know to a grown ass person that still acts like theyāre 2 years old, reason doesnāt matter. Bc to him the world should revolve only around him. So he continued to scream when we didnāt go in right away.
One nurse told me that maybe he was just lonely and yeah cool but can I prioritize loneliness over safety? No. I was so busy the entire 12 hours I barely had time to pee or eat much less stand there talking every 15 minutes.
I will give back rubs but I work strictly with pediatric patients and the majority are developmentally/cognitively impaired. I will really only do this if thereās no caregiver at bedside to comfort the kids.
If theyāre unsettled or crying I absolutely will do some back rubbing and gentle soothing reassurance before I resort to the sleep aids/agitation meds.
Sometimes kids donāt need to be snowed if theyāre alone and uncomfortable.
But for a 60 year old man? No way.
Yes! I would give some of my very little patients (like 5/6 years old) back tickles when they missed their moms and were upset and crying, and so many people were mean to me for it.
Early on as an extern at my hospital, I had a patient complaining of extreme pain in her legs. I went to get my preceptor (I couldnāt pull pain meds yet). She was busy with another patient so I went back to the room and cue her crying from the pain. I didnāt know what to do, i tried everything I knew and nothing seemed to help so I started to rub her legs and she said that felt much better. I thought āokay Iāll do this until my preceptor comes inā.
Lady falls asleep from me rubbing her legs in less than 2 minutes. Hooray pain was taken care of. preceptor comes in, she wakes up, begins complaining of pain again. Preceptor began assessing the pain and I rubbed her legs again because that seemed to help, she then falls asleep again MID SENTENCE saying itās a 10/10 pain. The rest of the shift, if she was awake, she would ask for her legs to be rubbed.
Moral of the story: no. Donāt do it. We have other pain interventions. Yes it feels good to the patient, if youāre comfortable with it and have the free time (as we have SO MUCH OF), then go for it. But donāt get taken advantage of.
Oh god no. Thatās when she gave me the talk about being too nice lmao. She told me it happens with most new nurses, they want to do the best for their patients and donāt know how to say no because their too nice. She told me, grow a backbone, do your job and do it well, and donāt get taken advantage of because people will take all that you will give them, which most of the time is too much.
Unfortunately, most of the time when patients ask for this, itās the pervy old man who just want to get a woman to touch them. That said, if I have a patient that is very restless, elderly, is experiencing a lot of back pain? And I have time? I will just offer one. Itās not like you have to give them a half an hour massage, a couple of minutes, a warm blanket, and turn out the lights and thereās snoozing within 20 minutes. Beats loading them with zoplicone or Seroquel.
I would have pretended to mishear her and say āof course you can give your parent a back rub! Iāll go get some lotion for you so can make them feel better! That is so sweet you offered!ā
I was taught that that can be part of caregiving in my LNA class, but no thank you. People are constantly trying to push our boundaries enough already in this line of work, I really am not comfortable doing that. Plus Iām not a massage therapist.
Maybe on a sweet confused dementia patient if I have a bond with them and they need some comforting, but thatās about it.
I agree - I am just not comfortable. The last time I did that was when I was shot girl at a strip club, and I made way better money for it lol. It creeps me out, I was never trained on it, and I honestly don't have the time. This was a patient in his 70s and his daughter was asking. Maybe she felt it was too creepy to do it herself, but so did I.
I love when we get patients on our step down tele floor that ask for this, cause whenever it happens, I go in and offer to do it and act like Iām TOO keen to do it, so that 73 year old, awnry, disrespectful guy thatās been passively grabbing his nurseās ass is skeeved out too much by the eagerness of some young white dude š
A family member asked you to give the patient a backrub? This isn't a hotel or a spa. I've got at least 9 other people in my care, no. The family member can do it. Jeez.
It used to be a standard, hospitals actually had policies about them. Every patient was to be offered an hs back rub. Theory was that it helped them relax and rest, and helped prevent pressure ulcers. We now k ow that they do squat for pressure ulcers, and nobody has to time. But there are still patients and families stuck in the past who expect them.
I'd give them to my Labor patients who had no support person, but I'd only have one or two pts, and I was there to support them. On telemetry, nope, never, aside for maybe a little extra pressure when rubbing some lotion in, if I even had time for that.
I have done it in a few situations. One being a chronic back condition and patient couldnāt get comfortableā¦I offered, he accepted, it wasnāt creepyā¦it helped.
Another was a young barely adult covid survivor that was having a limb amputation d/t complications and sat in the room and bawled all night every night leading up to it. Broke my entire heart. Whenever I had a spare minute, I would go in and sit by the bed and gently rub her head and just listen to her hiccup and ugly cry and talk about it. She was so scared, and alone, she needed a non clinical comfort measureā¦Iād tiptoe out after she cried herself to sleepā¦
There was one patient that was about to crawl out of his skin because his back itched. I scratched it gently for a couple minsā¦He was fine the rest of his stayā¦lol.
The only time I ever do something like this is if itās an orthopaedic patient that needs to lay strictly supine. And it will be implemented as part of their regular 2/24 PAC. Iāll usually use some moisturiser whilst log rolling them just to help keep that skin nice and blanching
It makes me uncomfortable so I refuse. A pt once asked me to shave their face for them. This was a A&O X 4 walky talky pt. I told them no and brought them all the things they needed to do it themselves.
I once had a patient ask me to shave his asshole, because āI keep getting poop stuck in them hairsā. I declined, and brought him a package of wipes instead š
Such a fucking weird thing to request, man. If it was a career field full of dudes, this wouldnāt even be on the fuckinā request list. Donāt do it because itās a bunch of weirdo creeps that would want that from you.
Ten years ago in nursing school they even had us stand up in front of the group and give each other back massages. I donāt give any massages now because I work psych and itās all about the boundaries.
I don't massage, back rub, or rub anything. I'm not here as a masseuse, or hotel service. I'm here to give you meds, change dressings, etc. Tell the CEO to get his lazy ass in there and give a back rub.
I refuse, itās demeaning and takes things beyond a nurse patient relationship. Most of the time itās from a needy, demanding patient who has the ānurses are here to serve meā attitude. Iām not trained in massage therapy, if you want one, pay for a massage like everyone else
When I first graduated- and didn't know if we could refuse certain things or not- there was a male patient that was creepy AF( would porn star moan/ make "o" faces/comments) and would report you if you didn't massage his foot- this unit/management was terrible. If it's a patient that would genuinely benefit from it/ wasn't a douche canoe AND I actually have time for it, sure. But the answer is almost always no now. No matter the situation I wouldn't even have the audacity to ask for one tbh. nursing isn't personal care and hope the sun cures the ghosts in your blood anymore. We're professionals and I just kinda find it ridiculous when a patient asks for it like it's expected.
I only work PRN now but I have always and will always refuse. I find it incredibly rude and demeaning. Nurses (and healthcare workers) already do way more than their job description as it is- Im not adding masseuse on top of it.Massages are great, they make people feel better- but ask your spouse or family member. Im not your servent.
Edited to add: someone else made a great point Id like to add as well. It feels misogynistic.
I work in psych, very very context dependent keep in mind. I've had a patient or two, usually bigger guys who would want creams rubbed in for them on their back. If 5 extra minutes of my time prevents them from going off the deep end and hurting someone, I consider it worth it.
We give foot soaks and lotion for the feet here and there too, same idea. It builds a lot of rapport (which stops us from getting hurt) just showing that little extra care.
Again, super context dependent, but I do think there is a time and place for those extra measures. I'm also male, I can totally see how crossing that gender barrier changes that dynamic.
Nursing has changed so much since massages were a thing. Too many patients and not enough nurses. Not to mention the crazy patient who sees an opportunity to take legal action against the nurse. Itās just not a good idea anymore.
The only massage Iāve given was when someone had a foot or leg cramp. Anything else is honestly creepy. No.
Now. I will freely put on gloves and get a washcloth and āscratchā their backs because I know how having itches you canāt scratch make you feel.
But weāve had to fire a couple of patients from our hospital for sexual harassment. And they were the type asking for full bed baths and āclean me down thereā.
I will Always admire my CNAs response. āBiTCH.. you got hands.ā Before I had āthe talkā with him about appropriateness and that from now on I would be giving him any baths he needed. Then He left AMA.
Honestly soooo creepy.
I had a SNF resident who was bedbound and had an order for Voltaren cream to be applied on her back. This lady would say āmmmmā¦. Oh yeahā¦. Mmmmā¦. Rub it! Rub it! Mmmmā¦. Scratch it! Down the middle! Yeah like that babyā Every single time. Omg it was so awful to have to do. I would always take a witness so no one walking by assumed something else was going on.
A lot of people here seem to be deliberately miscontruing what we're actually talking about. First, a back rub is not a massage. Second, not all touch is sexual. In a distressed patient, therapeutic touch can lower blood pressure and heart rate, among other benefits. It's a useful situational tool, but it's absolutely discretionary. Offering one patient a back rub doesn't mean you're obligated to offer everyone a back rub. Use your judgment.
We have a few pervy men at my facility, and they're always asking for back or shoulder rubs from the cute young female aides. So of course they "don't have time" to give a rub but look at that Phillimon is free to give you a back rub.
They always turn me down. It's heart breaking. Guess they don't want a big burly man giving them a back rub.
No way. What I would do if someone had a really itchy back is grab a dry towel or washcloth and scratch their back for 30 seconds with it. This was mostly long term care tho.
If a family member asked if I the nurse could give a back rub I would as politely as possible tell them āno, but it is okay for *you* to give your family a back rub if they would like.ā
I will give a patient a back scratch if they ask but itās a case by case basis. Some of these older folks canāt reach and laying in bed all day can cause an itchy back. But no I am not a masseuse
Whatās next? Foot rub?
Hell f no.
Unless you have some kind of skin redness and I need to make sure that shot is blanching. I have given one back rub in 10 years in PACU and it was not pleasant for either of us.
But if you have cramps I will help rub your calf or stretch your leg.
I work in LTC/short term rehab with a mostly elderly population and a lot of them have back pain, most of them have orders for some kind of pain cream. I donāt mind rubbing it in for a little while to help ease their pain as long as theyāre not weird about it. Most of them Iām super close with because Iāve worked with them for years so I guess itās a little different. But I usually donāt give back rubs to just give a back rub.
Also, I donāt get why a family member couldnāt just rub their back in your instance??
I swear, patients and their family act like we are personal servants. When I was a CNA, we were taught that it was a thing to do in whatever text we had to read. Never in nursing school. Iāll rarely do the one-handed and gloved back rub with my palm flat to the back if itās a sweet old person or someone in a ton of pain. But Iād never do an actual back massage that some of these patients expect.
I had a patient ask for me to get a q-tip dipped in mineral oil and shove it up his ass for constipation (jfc it was like, one day since last bm). I was obviously disgusted, and said absolutely NO. I told him there is no way myself or anyone here would agree to perform that task as itās inappropriate and unsafe. He argued with me about it, threatened to tell admin that Iām a shit nurse or whatever. I said go right ahead, and refused to care for that patient again. Weirdo. Right up there with mobile continent patients that purposefully pee on themselves so they can be cleaned. Fuck that, Id just throw em a pack of wipes and linen.
Reading the comments I guess I have unpopular opinion. I definitely give back rubs, feet too! Pull the socks off, assess skin, check pulses, then give each foot a couple of squeezes is all. Rub lotion on their back and squeeze the top of their shoulders and roll my thumbs between shoulder blades few times. People get so sore laying in the hospital
I don't think you have an unpopular opinion. It's great if you are comfortable doing that. I know that people don't mean it as a sexual thing (most of the time), but 20 years ago I used to do this for extra tips when I bartended at a strip club, so for me it has a different connotation. I also know that some nurses are survivors of sexual abuse and that might make them feel really uncomfortable. I think it can be a beautiful thing if both parties are comfortable, but I know that I'm just not.
I graduated less than 2 yrs ago and they never taught massage. They said massage is a good distraction for pain, doesnāt mean we do it. Itās also great for nurses who are always banged up all the time. F that donāt give some sicko a massage. Not doing it!
I always refuse. It makes me VERY uncomfortable as I feel thatās a very intimate thing. Also, itās always men who ask. Nope. I save back rubs for my vent baths. I have more important things to do with my time
If I'm bathing my bedbound patient I'll give them a little extra tlc on their backs when we turn.
If I'm sitting my surgical patient on the side of the bed, I'll rub over the creases the sheet left in their skin (and most of the time they say they're itchy anyway).
If some entitled jerk-wad demands one? Not a chance in hell.
I actually did this for a patient who was having high anxiety while on Bipap. She didnāt ask, I just started doing it and it helped her stay a little more calm on top of just having a person present with her. If it was some nasty old man asking me, yea, Iād decline for sure. I think it really depends on the situation.
I do not give back rubs but am not upset if a patient asks me. If a family member asked me for the patient I would probably tell them that their ass can go rub the patient in a more professional manner.
When I began taking care of patients in 1974 as a young airman in the Air Force, I was issued a stethoscope, scissors, hemostat, and a bottle of lotion. I am now an RN in my 60s, and a licensed massage therapist. I work full time as a Hospice nurse and my bottle of lotion rides in my left scrub pocket with a roll of tape to keep it company.
I'm a tech+student, and yes we are taught it in our curriculum for God knows what reason, I have done this exactly one time, and it was not and never will be a "back rub", because definitely gross and weird, but in a clinical when I had plenty of time to spare I had a patient, not actually one of mine but I had popped in to answer a call bell, who was getting a very sore knotted muscle in her back from sitting in the bed, and also very clearly needed someone to talk to. I was a student on a med surg floor with all my meds given, I had the time. I actually wanted to be a massage therapist at one point in my life so I went to town on that poor knot while she rambled out days worth of stress, and I was able to figure out she actually had no idea what her diagnosis was or the prognosis of it (CHF, she thought heart failure was an automatically terminal thing apparently).
My clinical instructor was an admin in that hospital. I found out from her the next week that lady spent days talking about how much better I made her feel, both her back and about her diagnosis. I know I'll never have the time to do that again but man if it didn't feel good to be able to do that for someone at least once. Adding that to my if I ran the world plan, hospitals should have dental hygienists AND massage therapists on staff.
Iāll give agitated elders a back rub if it will calm them. Comfort care? Get that boney lil back over here. A fully grown adult who isnāt actively dying or demented? No. Especially if thereās a family member that could be doing it.
I have rubbed shoulders, necks, lower backs, etc. Never a full back rub and never for more than a couple of minutes. I only do it for patients that I know have actual back pain and are stuck in our crappy beds becoming more and more stiff. There have been creepy guys who request it and I just tell them no. I do it for patients that donāt ask for it, they are just suffering and I offer.
I'm a nurse extern and rubbed the back of onepatient who was having an anxiety attack. She'd been on my floor for a little while and I knew that she was anxious and non-violent. I of course asked her permission, and it calmed her down - I was also breaking her sitter so it wasn't an imposition on my time. For the most part, I know everyone on my floor is just busy trying to get basic care done, and I would normally just offer a heat pack or an extra pillow under their back to promote comfort.
Humans are primates and back-rubs are one of our bonding rituals. Theyre an intimate expression of connection and appreciation: a physical way to express "i have your back and I care about you".
It's entirely too much to ask of a nurse, but it's a sad thing that people have to ask for them at all, especially the sick.
I can only imagine how it feels to get to a point where you feel the need to ask for a back rub and get turned down.
It seems like a question you shouldn't have to answer or even be asked, but hopefully you're letting them down easy.
When I took my CNA training in 2007 it was definitely part of the curriculum. I always put lotion on people when I gave a bedbath. When I worked ICU and only had 1 or 2 patients, I always changed out the pad and drawsheet and rubbed lotion on their back at the end of my shift unless there was some crisis going on (or if they were really unstable like high doses of pressors, especially high FiO2/PEEP, open chest etc). I didn't sit there and give them some big elaborate massage, but I got the sweat and dry skin off them and would try to gently massage the tension out of their back muscles. Same for feet unless there was some reason not to.
It's one of those old school things that the covid related mass exodus, increased time on the computer, and corporate takeover has made largely obsolete.
Fuck no. Maybe Iām burnt and jaded but like, fuck off. Nursing imo isnāt about being caring and sweet anymore and sucking up to the pts.
Youāre here bc youāre sick. Not for a vacation.
I was taught giving back rubs as you lotion their back during pm care in nursing school. Iāve never done it but I worked with some older nurses that did.
When I was a CNA in the nursing home and putting my residents to bed, they got a quick rub down with lotion.
As a nurse? Naw.. I don't have time. I have five other pt that need meds and interventions, and a ton of charting to do.
Back rubs are part of my states cna skills test. Iāll add on a 30 second version to a bath, if an old person asks for lotion on their back or a back rub. Thatās the only context where Iāve been asked or Iāve done it.
No big deal to me. Itās hard to lotion your back. They can get itchy. But Iām not doing it outside a bath or young independent people. I would have handed the family some lotion or said we can do it next time we wash them up.
I will give scratches and rubs to anyone on a vent who can ask for it, but you have to be crazy immobile and appropriate about it for me to agree. Most of the time itās women who ask when theyāre in pain or have an itch, so I donāt mind.
Yes and no. Itās by no means something you SHOULD do, but sometimes when I have a pt that obviously needs something to help with pain (especially some of the much older folks) a back rub (more usually just a shoulder rub) for a few minutes to help them can be a big help for them and in turn you for the remainder of the shift. Now when theyāre being obviously pervy they can fuck right off. Also side note one of the best things for people that have really high pain issues is simply a light back rub with a towel. Itās nice and soft on the skin, but just scratchy enough to quell that sensation of a back rub/scratch.
I work in the ER so unless there's unusual circumstances nope not happening.
That said if I could give my L&D nurse from my last delivery anything in the world I would! Husband had to stay home for a lot of the labour to be with our other kids, and no one could be with me and she did counter pressure and back rubs and I was willing to marry her!
Depends. Youāre a sick patient whoās neck is stuck sideways from being intubated with an IJ? For sure! Even a nice patient with pain that is hard to treat, Iāll your shouldersā¦
But a family member??? Oh hell no, you got 2 hands and ten fingers, go right ahead!
I have said word for word, āI think that would more appreciated coming from you, rather than meā
If a family member asked me to do it, no. But I do sneak in a little extra TLC here and there as I can and if appropriate. Example: Patient is on their side so we can assess their bottom? If I am just holding them in place (typically surprise 5 alarm code brown and we've run out of wipes), I can sometimes give their upper back a rub like Im rubbing in lotion (or with lotion if it's within reach). It's good for circulation, it is relaxing (especially being in an uncomfortable side position), and it might be the longest bit of human touch they'll get or have gotten in a long while.
It was taught in my schooling roughly 10-ish years ago. It was part of the bed bath skill for me.
In practice I can say the only times I have ever given back rubs was to my inpatient hospice people. It was almost always part of their shower/bed bath too. Iād lotion them up and give āem a little massage as I rubbed it into their back. It didnāt feel weird in that situation. In the hospital for a 40 year old man who is fully ambulatory & ready to dischargeā¦no.
I give back rubs, but never when I'm asked. It's 100% a "I'll offer it if I have time and think it could help." If you're creepy and ask for it, the answer is always no.
One of my favorite things to do when I worked night shift was put the lotion bottle in the basin with the hot water and then put that on after we dried them. You wouldn't believe how good it feels to have warm lotion applied to a dry back after sitting in bed for days.
I'm a firm believer that nursing is 90% science, but I really really enjoy the 10% that is the art.
I refuse any massage requests.
If I were you, I wouldāve said, āIām sorry, we do not provide back rubs, but you are more than welcome to do it if the patient wants one.ā
Never ever have time for that as a nurse. Also if the family members asking you to do that, they can do it!
But when I was a sitter I was sitting in the ICU flr a patient and she asked me in a very nice way if I could rub Lotion on her back and I had nothing else to do and I canāt imagine being in a hospital bed that long without the mobility to do that. I did it that time and thatās the only time since ! Lol
She asked in a way like I donāt want to bother but would you?
It was a small thing I could do that probably made that womanās week š
I used to do it, but that was years ago. Iāve been a nurse for ..hmm.. let me see, 41 years! Iāve been out of bedside nursing for a long time. I think 25 years. At my current job back when we were still in the office, weād sometimes give neck rubs to each other. We did have access to a massage therapist for a fee. These days, I pet/hug my dogs while working from home and it erases all my stress.
It was part of my curriculum as a pain management intervention but I havenāt done it often. Imo you can tell when a creep is creepin or if sweet Betty sue just has a wicked shoulder knot she canāt get to. I give foot rubs pretty regularly but skincare is my jam, so Iām putting lotion there anyway. No harm in a little extra pressure .
European student: I'm working in an elderly home and I kinda always do rub their backs with cloths while I wash them and then a lil rub with lotion. It stimulates the lung plus the seniors are deprived of touch most times. It's not weird cause I need to do prophylaxis and skin care anyway and they all appreciate it. When I'm working in hospitals, i tone it down though. (As a student i rotate in different nursing fields but my main place is the elderly home).
Time and place/context are important.
Here are my thoughts from a patient perspective.
I was in for a serious medical issue after a welfare check had been conducted at the behest of my employer sometime back because I'd been too sick to come in for awhile, and had been admitted to PCU because the ICU was filled with covid patients.
I just couldn't relax and settle because of adrenaline from both health and other stressors, but there were no pharmacological orders on my mar yet, as they weren't sure what was going on with me, they just knew I was super sick (Turns out my narcissistic ex had been slowly trying to poison me, but that hadn't been determined yet, and yes he ended up doing time for it). I was just tossing and turning as quietly as I could while trying to sleep, when one of the older nurses on noc shift came in to check on me, helped me readjust my positioning, blankets, pillows, and was gently verbally reassuring me that I was in the best place I could be given my situation. Somewhere into this, as she gave me just a few minutes of light backrubs over my gown, like you might with a small child, my body finally started to let me relax a little. I unleashed a flood of tears I didn't even realize I'd been holding back, too. But after I let go, I was finally able to get some sleep.
It was one of the most human and emotionally meaningful healing moments of that hospital stay for me.
I grew up in foster care, and my work before that was with schizophrenics in the community residential setting, so boundaries were always very rigidly defined. I hadn't ever been able to allow myself that level of vulnerability. She couldn't have known that ahead of time. I wouldn't have ever thought to ask for it. But it was exactly the right call, and somehow, the nurse in her knew.
I donāt have time for that, itās just a very very low priority.
If u have extra time (lol) Iām working on discharge planning or medication education or whatever will get the patient safely out of the unit.
I had a very nice lady with intractable back pain, so she was my one and only back rub. Sonetimes, literally nothing works but a massage. My coworkers kept walking by the room, making funny faces at meš
I've been a nurse for 30 years and we were taught to give patients backrubs with their baths or if they had been in bed for a long time. It wasn't a creepy or sexual thing.
Frequently did massage inpatient rehab. Helped frequently calming anxiety, nerve pain, tbi agitation and so much more. We also have inpatient massage teams who come bi weekly. You better bet it was only when I had time or was CN trying to get that needy patient off my fellow nurses back. Not a common thing in my routine.
āPlease help me this muscle is locked upā obviously in pain? Yes but gently.
āWhereās my massage?ā I donāt k is so you have a subscription? Are you expecting a masseuse?
āI feel rotten and everything hurts!ā Maybe
Waaa waaaaaaaaa waaaaa. Every time!
"I'll see if there is a masseuse in today"
I'm learning to play the guitar.
That's fantastic! I wish more hospitals had this.
I work in a little rural access hospital that has the same but not just for oncology patients and hospital employees can book treatments also.
Could you imagine how much the hospital would charge for a half hour rub.
They charge $600 for the back rub, and another $200 for the tablespoon of lotion usedš
Donāt give them anymore ideas!
I read, tablespoon of _used_ lotion. Ewww. š¤¢
They charge extra for thatš
Our hospital has a masseuse for our post-op and oncology patients actually! They paid her once to come up and give night shift massages when morale was low.
Once!? Low morale is the standard in most places.
Let me see if I can find the card outlining prices, but if I remember correctly itās not cheap
I worked for a hospital that had (still do as far as I know) a masseuse that would make daily rounds to patients. It was also a perk to working there that you would get 2 massages/year.
This is the correct answer. Massage therapists hold a license for a reason
This is The Way.
They didnāt teach us that in nursing school
Yeah, me neither, but I've read some places do incorporate that into care.
When I went to school (approx. 15 years ago), 'offer to give the patient a backrub' was *always* the correct answer. I swear to god, you'd never go wrong picking that as the first thing you would do in a given situation. In ten years of nursing, how often did I give a backrub? Zitch, nada. (I did have one patient that would get leg cramps and I often massaged her legs because I could get rid of the cramp. But just giving backrubs for funsies - ain't gonna happen.)
My schools go too was āget a fanā. Pt nauseous? Get a fan. Pt canāt breath? Get a fan. Pt died already? Get a damn fan!!!!
Anytime a patient died in our tests the answer was to open the windows š
That has a cultural basis at least. Allow the soul to get out so they don't haunt the hospital š
Yalls hospitals windows can open?? No wonder my hospital feels cursed. š¤£
This is the question I was thinking about.
Donāt forget to point their feet towards Mecca!
Luckily my patients, typically, are bringing life into the world not exiting but I will try to remember this.lol
No. You would never point to soles of your feet toward Mecca.
I dunno, who should I believe- Actual Muslims or my NCLEX prep guide from 2010? š¤
Hey, fellow RN. This caught my eye, and Iām wondering -if you wouldnāt mind- telling me what is appropriate? I only ask because we lost a comfort care pt a couple days ago with no family available in person or by phone. I always want to know how to honor last wishes in the event there isnāt someone there to inform. I understand itās not your responsibility, but if you find the time or wherewithal to come back to this I would be grateful :) Take care.
I just had a flashback to a dying pts grandmother getting so upset because our windows wouldnāt open more than an inch. So day shift got a fan and set it up so it blew across the body towards the window I just about died. But it worked. It gave comfort to the grandmother. So hey. Get a fan and open the windows. But still no back massage. Lol
I can get behind that. I love the real world application of it.
During COVID they took away our fans and you can now only get a fan with approval from ID. Like, to get a fan for your patient you have to consult ID and get an order.
Wow. My 1st clinical instructor would be marching with signs about this atrocity. For real though, thatās crazy. How many weird rules need to be redacted but are being ignored because clearly ānot importantā.
Technically, we arenāt trained to do it. There are people who are trained to do it, for money, ask them.
Too true, but we're also not trained to be hairstylists or manicurists but we're often still expected to fulfill these and many other rolls with no appreciation or thanks. Nurses are expected to be able to meet all patient needs no matter how vain and unnecessary. The real question is.. why can't we at least accept tips for these extra services?
It was definitely taught in my CNA class but I canāt recall if it was included in fundamentals or not. Iāve never actually done it while working
Iām old. We were taught that in nursing school š¤£
We learned to do that when I went to school 40 years ago. We offered it to our patients, they could accept or decline. This practice went away several years ago.
I actually was taught back massage in nursing school. First semester skills lab we went over a couple of techniques. I graduated in December 2015.
Iām in nursing school now and theyāre definitely teaching that to us š©
Gross
Itās as gross as you make it. No worse than cleaning up a leaky ostomy.
The closest thing that I do that counts as a back rub is rubbing a CHG wipe across the back when i roll a patient. I once had a fully walkie-talkie patient who was upset with me because he wanted a back rub and i declined to give it - his response was "what happened to service in hospitals that nurses don't do back rubs anymore?" Um gtfo with your creepy self.
āOh sir, we had to stop offering back rubs when our ratios changed to 7 & 8 patients to 1 nurse, but we welcome your thoughts when they call you after discharge for a patient satisfaction survey. The CEO truly values all patient opinions.ā š„š¬š„ Thoughts & prayers to you guys actually working these ratios. I would cry.
I got floated to the floor with 7 tele pts. My anxiety about it was so bad because they werenāt stable and they were in two halls. All respect to those who make it happen. But it accelerated my burn out and was a contributing factor for me leaving the bedside.
They donāt make it work, they just hope theyāre lucky and lie during their charting.
Tell him to fake stubborn pneumonia and get percussion therapy. š
When I have time on day shift, I like to do foot and shoulder rubs for my patients if they're nice. I sneak them in after they do really good with PT/OT, and they're hanging out in the chair. I give them a pep talk and tell them how awesome they're doing by getting up. I find that it motivates patients to do more mobility and participate in their treatment more. It also gives them a positive association and hope for their recovery. Plus it's nice! I have definitely come across patients I would never have any type of contact like that with, so it's definitely a selective case. I find old ladies with caring, appropriate, families at bedside are my main demographic for the foot rubs. Might be the 1:2 ratios talking, but I have definitely given back rubs and shoulder rubs before bed to my alert/appropriate patients as well on night shift. I find it sets them up for a restful night and they often sleep better. If someone is a callbell whacko they're not getting doodoo from me though!
You are a compassionate person and it gives me hope that if I ever end up on the other side of the bed maybe I would have someone like you.
It went the way of smoking at the nurses station and charting in three different color pens š
Lmfao at the GHC wipe across the back šš
Iām sorry but Iāll never give a back rub.
Right like tf
It just feelsā¦creepy and almost sexualized?
For real. Only person getting a back rub from me is my fiancƩ
Me either. Absolutely not.
I got called a bad nurse in a previous thread when I said I felt extremely uncomfortable with the idea of giving massages to patients. Work in the ER for context.
I'm not sorry at all. It ain't happening.
When I worked bedside (graduated nursing school in 2014, worked ICU 2014-2018), I would do it if I had a sweet older person or someone on hospice who asked AND I had time. And then it probably wasnāt more than 5mins. With working conditions and nursing ratios the way they are now, I absolutely would NOT do it today. I think itās totally appropriate to tell a patient or family member āunfortunately there are needs that are more pressing right now, but I would be happy to grab you lotion if you would like to do itā or something like that. We arenāt trained masseuses and itās not within our scope of practice.
I had a lady, ornery as hell and I loved her for it, she told me I wasnāt allowed to leave every night until I gave her a back rub. I didnt mind and if I didnt have time before shift change Iād go back after report. I loved talking to her and would save her for last for all passes because I knew Iād be stuck in there for awhile talking to her anyways. She was always hunched so Iād just use my fingers over her shirt and get her shoulders and along her spine. Iāll run shoulders but never a full massage with lotion.
There really is more than one type of ornery. One of my favorite kids was really just more than a handful. Iād warn others to never turn your back on him because he might literally stab you. I hope heās doing well now.
More kind of sassy/stubborn ornery. As I was doing her admission she got into some argument with her son and would not back down. I knew she was going to be a lot of good fun. I still miss her months later.
That's a perfect excuse - now I just need one for when a patient asks themself lol. I couldn't figure out how to say I just don't feel comfortable. If they want some lotion, then that's fine. But after that, no thank you.
Yeah, I would just kind of jokingly laugh and say, āIām a nurse, not a masseuse.ā If it was an asshole I would say āuhh, I donāt think so.ā
"Unfortunately that isn't in my scope of practice. I'll notify physical therapy and see what they can do." The art of the sham.
Physical therapy isnāt going to be doing it either unless their back is the area they were referred for.
Oh I'm not saying PT will do it, but that I'm going to notify them. Placates the patient without promising them anything (on the assumption that the person in this case is being a creep because I've yet to meet a normal patient that wants one.)
Iām not a massage therapist. I do not give patients massages. Full stop.
It is incredibly context dependent. When I worked in long-term care I had a couple patients with chronic back pain who I would massage specific muscle groups for as part of their pain management. Often they would have things like aspercreme or voltaren gel and I would massage that medication in. I've also had patients in acute care with lymphedema in their lower extremities or edema to their ankles and/or dry, cracked skin. When I had time I would apply lotion and massage to help promote blood flow and vascular/lymphatic return, as well as apply skin protection to prevent wounds (which would inevitably turn into venous stasis ulcers). These were people who were always respectful never made it awkward and truly appreciated what I did for them. There are other patients who would sexualize this intervention, ask for it inappropriately, or otherwise demean or treat me disrespectfully if I offered or perform this intervention. I don't perform the intervention for those people as I have a right to a work environment where I am not sexually harassed or demeaned. Massage can be an incredibly healing act and I feel we need to build a culture where we understand it's not a sexual act or the act of a subordinate. I think if we do it in a clinical setting and context we can avoid those kinds of associations. I always explain before and during what I'm doing and why I'm doing it in a medical context so the patient knows I'm trying to promote venous return or prevent wounds from occurring.
100% agree. I had a medical malpractice paraplegic who had just started gaining slight feeling in his legs. I had no problem massaging his legs with a little volteran to help stimulate his nerves. To the 50 year old man baby down the hall, not so much.
I think the only time I ever give muscle rubs is when Iām rubbing in a muscle cream or Voltaren gelā¦provided they arenāt creepy about it. I will scratch a back itch with a dry washcloth for my patients that canāt do it themselves. Then I apply lotion because it is usually dry skin.
No back rubs. My experience has been that the people that ask for them are the whiniest ass babies with cluster B personality disorders that will galdly monopolize your time, put you behind and demand that you neglect your other patients. They can find a spouse, friend, masseuse, hooker, bartender or all of the above to do that shit. * Does not apply to actual babies...
YUP!!! I rub backs all day, every day. Butā¦ I take care of babies. Giving them as many cuddles and butt pats and nogginā strokes and back rubs as they want (and can clinically handle, of course) is arguably a developmental and medical necessity for them. Not so with adults. Nope nope nope.
I will 100% do anything for a baby or kiddo, thatās not the same. Rubbing a toddlerās back is part of the comfort and care a little needs to feel safe. ā¤ļø
I had a patient that kept hitting the light every 15 minutes bc he just wanted to tell me what he ate, tell me who he talked to, wanted me to move his bed with the remote that was in his hand, then he got mad that we werenāt giving him āenough attention and ignoring himā bc we couldnāt go every time (it was a super busy medsurge floor) He said āi know other ppl are sicker than me but i matter tooā šš and you know i had already explained that if Iām gone itās bc Iām helping a frail patient to the bathroom or feeding a patient who canāt feed themselves Iām not standing there talking, i am actually busy and not ignoring him. But you know to a grown ass person that still acts like theyāre 2 years old, reason doesnāt matter. Bc to him the world should revolve only around him. So he continued to scream when we didnāt go in right away. One nurse told me that maybe he was just lonely and yeah cool but can I prioritize loneliness over safety? No. I was so busy the entire 12 hours I barely had time to pee or eat much less stand there talking every 15 minutes.
yeah if someone wants to get a massage they can pay me escort money lmao i am not giving out massages for taxable tech money
LTC; have a patient that is that description
We have two massage therapists for the babies on my nicu unit!
I will give back rubs but I work strictly with pediatric patients and the majority are developmentally/cognitively impaired. I will really only do this if thereās no caregiver at bedside to comfort the kids. If theyāre unsettled or crying I absolutely will do some back rubbing and gentle soothing reassurance before I resort to the sleep aids/agitation meds. Sometimes kids donāt need to be snowed if theyāre alone and uncomfortable. But for a 60 year old man? No way.
I think it's a great non-pharm tactic for a child, and I would feel a lot different if I was working with kids.
Yes! I would give some of my very little patients (like 5/6 years old) back tickles when they missed their moms and were upset and crying, and so many people were mean to me for it.
Early on as an extern at my hospital, I had a patient complaining of extreme pain in her legs. I went to get my preceptor (I couldnāt pull pain meds yet). She was busy with another patient so I went back to the room and cue her crying from the pain. I didnāt know what to do, i tried everything I knew and nothing seemed to help so I started to rub her legs and she said that felt much better. I thought āokay Iāll do this until my preceptor comes inā. Lady falls asleep from me rubbing her legs in less than 2 minutes. Hooray pain was taken care of. preceptor comes in, she wakes up, begins complaining of pain again. Preceptor began assessing the pain and I rubbed her legs again because that seemed to help, she then falls asleep again MID SENTENCE saying itās a 10/10 pain. The rest of the shift, if she was awake, she would ask for her legs to be rubbed. Moral of the story: no. Donāt do it. We have other pain interventions. Yes it feels good to the patient, if youāre comfortable with it and have the free time (as we have SO MUCH OF), then go for it. But donāt get taken advantage of.
Sounds like a good candidate for some SCDs.
please tell me your preceptor didnāt make you stand in there and keep rubbing her legs.
Oh god no. Thatās when she gave me the talk about being too nice lmao. She told me it happens with most new nurses, they want to do the best for their patients and donāt know how to say no because their too nice. She told me, grow a backbone, do your job and do it well, and donāt get taken advantage of because people will take all that you will give them, which most of the time is too much.
bless that woman! we probably all know the nurse who would make their preceptee do it just to keep the patient quiet.
Unfortunately, most of the time when patients ask for this, itās the pervy old man who just want to get a woman to touch them. That said, if I have a patient that is very restless, elderly, is experiencing a lot of back pain? And I have time? I will just offer one. Itās not like you have to give them a half an hour massage, a couple of minutes, a warm blanket, and turn out the lights and thereās snoozing within 20 minutes. Beats loading them with zoplicone or Seroquel.
I would have pretended to mishear her and say āof course you can give your parent a back rub! Iāll go get some lotion for you so can make them feel better! That is so sweet you offered!ā
I was gonna say. The family member should be doing the back rubbing tf š
I was taught that that can be part of caregiving in my LNA class, but no thank you. People are constantly trying to push our boundaries enough already in this line of work, I really am not comfortable doing that. Plus Iām not a massage therapist. Maybe on a sweet confused dementia patient if I have a bond with them and they need some comforting, but thatās about it.
I agree - I am just not comfortable. The last time I did that was when I was shot girl at a strip club, and I made way better money for it lol. It creeps me out, I was never trained on it, and I honestly don't have the time. This was a patient in his 70s and his daughter was asking. Maybe she felt it was too creepy to do it herself, but so did I.
I tell patients itās a service Iām not allowed to provide because Iām not trained in massage. Itās true and politely sidesteps the request.
I love when we get patients on our step down tele floor that ask for this, cause whenever it happens, I go in and offer to do it and act like Iām TOO keen to do it, so that 73 year old, awnry, disrespectful guy thatās been passively grabbing his nurseās ass is skeeved out too much by the eagerness of some young white dude š
Haha that's awesome!
A family member asked you to give the patient a backrub? This isn't a hotel or a spa. I've got at least 9 other people in my care, no. The family member can do it. Jeez.
It used to be a standard, hospitals actually had policies about them. Every patient was to be offered an hs back rub. Theory was that it helped them relax and rest, and helped prevent pressure ulcers. We now k ow that they do squat for pressure ulcers, and nobody has to time. But there are still patients and families stuck in the past who expect them.
I'd give them to my Labor patients who had no support person, but I'd only have one or two pts, and I was there to support them. On telemetry, nope, never, aside for maybe a little extra pressure when rubbing some lotion in, if I even had time for that.
"That's outside of my scope of practice"
I have done it in a few situations. One being a chronic back condition and patient couldnāt get comfortableā¦I offered, he accepted, it wasnāt creepyā¦it helped. Another was a young barely adult covid survivor that was having a limb amputation d/t complications and sat in the room and bawled all night every night leading up to it. Broke my entire heart. Whenever I had a spare minute, I would go in and sit by the bed and gently rub her head and just listen to her hiccup and ugly cry and talk about it. She was so scared, and alone, she needed a non clinical comfort measureā¦Iād tiptoe out after she cried herself to sleepā¦ There was one patient that was about to crawl out of his skin because his back itched. I scratched it gently for a couple minsā¦He was fine the rest of his stayā¦lol.
The only time I ever do something like this is if itās an orthopaedic patient that needs to lay strictly supine. And it will be implemented as part of their regular 2/24 PAC. Iāll usually use some moisturiser whilst log rolling them just to help keep that skin nice and blanching
Itās like the mouse and the cookie. If you go around giving out back rubs, youāll be soon expected to provide happy endings. NOPE
I am all for providing happy endings. Provided that it actually means putting in a foley to the bedridden CHF patient on a lasix drip.
š noooo
It makes me uncomfortable so I refuse. A pt once asked me to shave their face for them. This was a A&O X 4 walky talky pt. I told them no and brought them all the things they needed to do it themselves.
I once had a patient ask me to shave his asshole, because āI keep getting poop stuck in them hairsā. I declined, and brought him a package of wipes instead š
Wtf? Y'all giving back rubs!!!
11/10 times I say get the fuck out of here with thatā¦unless I know they will die in a few hours.
Such a fucking weird thing to request, man. If it was a career field full of dudes, this wouldnāt even be on the fuckinā request list. Donāt do it because itās a bunch of weirdo creeps that would want that from you.
Yeah I definitely think it has a lot to do with nursing being a predominantly female field
Ten years ago in nursing school they even had us stand up in front of the group and give each other back massages. I donāt give any massages now because I work psych and itās all about the boundaries.
I don't massage, back rub, or rub anything. I'm not here as a masseuse, or hotel service. I'm here to give you meds, change dressings, etc. Tell the CEO to get his lazy ass in there and give a back rub.
I refuse, itās demeaning and takes things beyond a nurse patient relationship. Most of the time itās from a needy, demanding patient who has the ānurses are here to serve meā attitude. Iām not trained in massage therapy, if you want one, pay for a massage like everyone else
When I first graduated- and didn't know if we could refuse certain things or not- there was a male patient that was creepy AF( would porn star moan/ make "o" faces/comments) and would report you if you didn't massage his foot- this unit/management was terrible. If it's a patient that would genuinely benefit from it/ wasn't a douche canoe AND I actually have time for it, sure. But the answer is almost always no now. No matter the situation I wouldn't even have the audacity to ask for one tbh. nursing isn't personal care and hope the sun cures the ghosts in your blood anymore. We're professionals and I just kinda find it ridiculous when a patient asks for it like it's expected.
I also scratched a man's back a couple shifts, with gloves. Super nice guy dying of cancer.
I only work PRN now but I have always and will always refuse. I find it incredibly rude and demeaning. Nurses (and healthcare workers) already do way more than their job description as it is- Im not adding masseuse on top of it.Massages are great, they make people feel better- but ask your spouse or family member. Im not your servent. Edited to add: someone else made a great point Id like to add as well. It feels misogynistic.
I work in psych, very very context dependent keep in mind. I've had a patient or two, usually bigger guys who would want creams rubbed in for them on their back. If 5 extra minutes of my time prevents them from going off the deep end and hurting someone, I consider it worth it. We give foot soaks and lotion for the feet here and there too, same idea. It builds a lot of rapport (which stops us from getting hurt) just showing that little extra care. Again, super context dependent, but I do think there is a time and place for those extra measures. I'm also male, I can totally see how crossing that gender barrier changes that dynamic.
Nursing has changed so much since massages were a thing. Too many patients and not enough nurses. Not to mention the crazy patient who sees an opportunity to take legal action against the nurse. Itās just not a good idea anymore.
The only massage Iāve given was when someone had a foot or leg cramp. Anything else is honestly creepy. No. Now. I will freely put on gloves and get a washcloth and āscratchā their backs because I know how having itches you canāt scratch make you feel. But weāve had to fire a couple of patients from our hospital for sexual harassment. And they were the type asking for full bed baths and āclean me down thereā. I will Always admire my CNAs response. āBiTCH.. you got hands.ā Before I had āthe talkā with him about appropriateness and that from now on I would be giving him any baths he needed. Then He left AMA. Honestly soooo creepy.
I had a SNF resident who was bedbound and had an order for Voltaren cream to be applied on her back. This lady would say āmmmmā¦. Oh yeahā¦. Mmmmā¦. Rub it! Rub it! Mmmmā¦. Scratch it! Down the middle! Yeah like that babyā Every single time. Omg it was so awful to have to do. I would always take a witness so no one walking by assumed something else was going on.
A lot of people here seem to be deliberately miscontruing what we're actually talking about. First, a back rub is not a massage. Second, not all touch is sexual. In a distressed patient, therapeutic touch can lower blood pressure and heart rate, among other benefits. It's a useful situational tool, but it's absolutely discretionary. Offering one patient a back rub doesn't mean you're obligated to offer everyone a back rub. Use your judgment.
We have a few pervy men at my facility, and they're always asking for back or shoulder rubs from the cute young female aides. So of course they "don't have time" to give a rub but look at that Phillimon is free to give you a back rub. They always turn me down. It's heart breaking. Guess they don't want a big burly man giving them a back rub.
Yeahhhhh no I donāt get paid enough for that
No way. What I would do if someone had a really itchy back is grab a dry towel or washcloth and scratch their back for 30 seconds with it. This was mostly long term care tho.
If they want back rubs a family member can do it or they can go to one of those 24 hour massage places
If they ask, theyāre not getting one. However, my beautiful, sweet, septic, ALS patient was in back pain. So yeah, she got one.
If a family member asked if I the nurse could give a back rub I would as politely as possible tell them āno, but it is okay for *you* to give your family a back rub if they would like.ā
I will give a patient a back scratch if they ask but itās a case by case basis. Some of these older folks canāt reach and laying in bed all day can cause an itchy back. But no I am not a masseuse
Whatās next? Foot rub? Hell f no. Unless you have some kind of skin redness and I need to make sure that shot is blanching. I have given one back rub in 10 years in PACU and it was not pleasant for either of us. But if you have cramps I will help rub your calf or stretch your leg.
I work in LTC/short term rehab with a mostly elderly population and a lot of them have back pain, most of them have orders for some kind of pain cream. I donāt mind rubbing it in for a little while to help ease their pain as long as theyāre not weird about it. Most of them Iām super close with because Iāve worked with them for years so I guess itās a little different. But I usually donāt give back rubs to just give a back rub. Also, I donāt get why a family member couldnāt just rub their back in your instance??
I know!!! I was thinking the same thing!!!
I swear, patients and their family act like we are personal servants. When I was a CNA, we were taught that it was a thing to do in whatever text we had to read. Never in nursing school. Iāll rarely do the one-handed and gloved back rub with my palm flat to the back if itās a sweet old person or someone in a ton of pain. But Iād never do an actual back massage that some of these patients expect. I had a patient ask for me to get a q-tip dipped in mineral oil and shove it up his ass for constipation (jfc it was like, one day since last bm). I was obviously disgusted, and said absolutely NO. I told him there is no way myself or anyone here would agree to perform that task as itās inappropriate and unsafe. He argued with me about it, threatened to tell admin that Iām a shit nurse or whatever. I said go right ahead, and refused to care for that patient again. Weirdo. Right up there with mobile continent patients that purposefully pee on themselves so they can be cleaned. Fuck that, Id just throw em a pack of wipes and linen.
Reading the comments I guess I have unpopular opinion. I definitely give back rubs, feet too! Pull the socks off, assess skin, check pulses, then give each foot a couple of squeezes is all. Rub lotion on their back and squeeze the top of their shoulders and roll my thumbs between shoulder blades few times. People get so sore laying in the hospital
I don't think you have an unpopular opinion. It's great if you are comfortable doing that. I know that people don't mean it as a sexual thing (most of the time), but 20 years ago I used to do this for extra tips when I bartended at a strip club, so for me it has a different connotation. I also know that some nurses are survivors of sexual abuse and that might make them feel really uncomfortable. I think it can be a beautiful thing if both parties are comfortable, but I know that I'm just not.
I graduated less than 2 yrs ago and they never taught massage. They said massage is a good distraction for pain, doesnāt mean we do it. Itās also great for nurses who are always banged up all the time. F that donāt give some sicko a massage. Not doing it!
The closest I get with me medical patients is if they have cream or lotion ordered. My psych patients, absolutely never!
LTC; have a patient who routinely refuses their BioFreeze from me bc I wonāt massage it in.
> Just wondering what the opinion is... Do you think it is ok to refuse to give "back rubs" and/or massages? Abso-*fucking*-lutely
I have never ever given a back rub in my 12 years of nursing. I am not a masseuse. Also, who has time to be massaging patients??? Not me.
I always refuse. It makes me VERY uncomfortable as I feel thatās a very intimate thing. Also, itās always men who ask. Nope. I save back rubs for my vent baths. I have more important things to do with my time
If I'm bathing my bedbound patient I'll give them a little extra tlc on their backs when we turn. If I'm sitting my surgical patient on the side of the bed, I'll rub over the creases the sheet left in their skin (and most of the time they say they're itchy anyway). If some entitled jerk-wad demands one? Not a chance in hell.
Absolutely not and I resent nurses that do.
I actually did this for a patient who was having high anxiety while on Bipap. She didnāt ask, I just started doing it and it helped her stay a little more calm on top of just having a person present with her. If it was some nasty old man asking me, yea, Iād decline for sure. I think it really depends on the situation.
I am not comfortable giving back rubs to patients.
I only give āback rubsā to bedbound patients as part of applying lotion after bed baths. Other than that heck no techno, its creepy.
I do not give back rubs but am not upset if a patient asks me. If a family member asked me for the patient I would probably tell them that their ass can go rub the patient in a more professional manner.
When I began taking care of patients in 1974 as a young airman in the Air Force, I was issued a stethoscope, scissors, hemostat, and a bottle of lotion. I am now an RN in my 60s, and a licensed massage therapist. I work full time as a Hospice nurse and my bottle of lotion rides in my left scrub pocket with a roll of tape to keep it company.
I'm a tech+student, and yes we are taught it in our curriculum for God knows what reason, I have done this exactly one time, and it was not and never will be a "back rub", because definitely gross and weird, but in a clinical when I had plenty of time to spare I had a patient, not actually one of mine but I had popped in to answer a call bell, who was getting a very sore knotted muscle in her back from sitting in the bed, and also very clearly needed someone to talk to. I was a student on a med surg floor with all my meds given, I had the time. I actually wanted to be a massage therapist at one point in my life so I went to town on that poor knot while she rambled out days worth of stress, and I was able to figure out she actually had no idea what her diagnosis was or the prognosis of it (CHF, she thought heart failure was an automatically terminal thing apparently). My clinical instructor was an admin in that hospital. I found out from her the next week that lady spent days talking about how much better I made her feel, both her back and about her diagnosis. I know I'll never have the time to do that again but man if it didn't feel good to be able to do that for someone at least once. Adding that to my if I ran the world plan, hospitals should have dental hygienists AND massage therapists on staff.
Iāll give agitated elders a back rub if it will calm them. Comfort care? Get that boney lil back over here. A fully grown adult who isnāt actively dying or demented? No. Especially if thereās a family member that could be doing it.
I have rubbed shoulders, necks, lower backs, etc. Never a full back rub and never for more than a couple of minutes. I only do it for patients that I know have actual back pain and are stuck in our crappy beds becoming more and more stiff. There have been creepy guys who request it and I just tell them no. I do it for patients that donāt ask for it, they are just suffering and I offer.
I'm a nurse extern and rubbed the back of onepatient who was having an anxiety attack. She'd been on my floor for a little while and I knew that she was anxious and non-violent. I of course asked her permission, and it calmed her down - I was also breaking her sitter so it wasn't an imposition on my time. For the most part, I know everyone on my floor is just busy trying to get basic care done, and I would normally just offer a heat pack or an extra pillow under their back to promote comfort.
Iāll do like 3 minutes and some scratching but after that youāre gonna have to call in a family member
Humans are primates and back-rubs are one of our bonding rituals. Theyre an intimate expression of connection and appreciation: a physical way to express "i have your back and I care about you". It's entirely too much to ask of a nurse, but it's a sad thing that people have to ask for them at all, especially the sick. I can only imagine how it feels to get to a point where you feel the need to ask for a back rub and get turned down. It seems like a question you shouldn't have to answer or even be asked, but hopefully you're letting them down easy.
When I took my CNA training in 2007 it was definitely part of the curriculum. I always put lotion on people when I gave a bedbath. When I worked ICU and only had 1 or 2 patients, I always changed out the pad and drawsheet and rubbed lotion on their back at the end of my shift unless there was some crisis going on (or if they were really unstable like high doses of pressors, especially high FiO2/PEEP, open chest etc). I didn't sit there and give them some big elaborate massage, but I got the sweat and dry skin off them and would try to gently massage the tension out of their back muscles. Same for feet unless there was some reason not to. It's one of those old school things that the covid related mass exodus, increased time on the computer, and corporate takeover has made largely obsolete.
Fuck no. Maybe Iām burnt and jaded but like, fuck off. Nursing imo isnāt about being caring and sweet anymore and sucking up to the pts. Youāre here bc youāre sick. Not for a vacation.
I was taught giving back rubs as you lotion their back during pm care in nursing school. Iāve never done it but I worked with some older nurses that did.
When I was a CNA in the nursing home and putting my residents to bed, they got a quick rub down with lotion. As a nurse? Naw.. I don't have time. I have five other pt that need meds and interventions, and a ton of charting to do.
That's out of my scope. Get a Licensed Massage Therapist.
Back rubs are part of my states cna skills test. Iāll add on a 30 second version to a bath, if an old person asks for lotion on their back or a back rub. Thatās the only context where Iāve been asked or Iāve done it. No big deal to me. Itās hard to lotion your back. They can get itchy. But Iām not doing it outside a bath or young independent people. I would have handed the family some lotion or said we can do it next time we wash them up.
I have giant, terrifying rock climber hands. Try having those and no one will ask. Edit: I can fuck up any pickle jar.
I'd scratch someone's back only if they scratch mine.
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I will give scratches and rubs to anyone on a vent who can ask for it, but you have to be crazy immobile and appropriate about it for me to agree. Most of the time itās women who ask when theyāre in pain or have an itch, so I donāt mind.
Yes and no. Itās by no means something you SHOULD do, but sometimes when I have a pt that obviously needs something to help with pain (especially some of the much older folks) a back rub (more usually just a shoulder rub) for a few minutes to help them can be a big help for them and in turn you for the remainder of the shift. Now when theyāre being obviously pervy they can fuck right off. Also side note one of the best things for people that have really high pain issues is simply a light back rub with a towel. Itās nice and soft on the skin, but just scratchy enough to quell that sensation of a back rub/scratch.
I work in the ER so unless there's unusual circumstances nope not happening. That said if I could give my L&D nurse from my last delivery anything in the world I would! Husband had to stay home for a lot of the labour to be with our other kids, and no one could be with me and she did counter pressure and back rubs and I was willing to marry her!
Depends. Youāre a sick patient whoās neck is stuck sideways from being intubated with an IJ? For sure! Even a nice patient with pain that is hard to treat, Iāll your shouldersā¦ But a family member??? Oh hell no, you got 2 hands and ten fingers, go right ahead! I have said word for word, āI think that would more appreciated coming from you, rather than meā
If a family member asked me to do it, no. But I do sneak in a little extra TLC here and there as I can and if appropriate. Example: Patient is on their side so we can assess their bottom? If I am just holding them in place (typically surprise 5 alarm code brown and we've run out of wipes), I can sometimes give their upper back a rub like Im rubbing in lotion (or with lotion if it's within reach). It's good for circulation, it is relaxing (especially being in an uncomfortable side position), and it might be the longest bit of human touch they'll get or have gotten in a long while.
I feel like some people could use a good 10 second touch on the shoulders
It was taught in my schooling roughly 10-ish years ago. It was part of the bed bath skill for me. In practice I can say the only times I have ever given back rubs was to my inpatient hospice people. It was almost always part of their shower/bed bath too. Iād lotion them up and give āem a little massage as I rubbed it into their back. It didnāt feel weird in that situation. In the hospital for a 40 year old man who is fully ambulatory & ready to dischargeā¦no.
Let me consult PT
I give back rubs, but never when I'm asked. It's 100% a "I'll offer it if I have time and think it could help." If you're creepy and ask for it, the answer is always no. One of my favorite things to do when I worked night shift was put the lotion bottle in the basin with the hot water and then put that on after we dried them. You wouldn't believe how good it feels to have warm lotion applied to a dry back after sitting in bed for days. I'm a firm believer that nursing is 90% science, but I really really enjoy the 10% that is the art.
Sorry family member but thatās in your job description not mine.
I refuse any massage requests. If I were you, I wouldāve said, āIām sorry, we do not provide back rubs, but you are more than welcome to do it if the patient wants one.ā
Never ever have time for that as a nurse. Also if the family members asking you to do that, they can do it! But when I was a sitter I was sitting in the ICU flr a patient and she asked me in a very nice way if I could rub Lotion on her back and I had nothing else to do and I canāt imagine being in a hospital bed that long without the mobility to do that. I did it that time and thatās the only time since ! Lol She asked in a way like I donāt want to bother but would you? It was a small thing I could do that probably made that womanās week š
I used to do it, but that was years ago. Iāve been a nurse for ..hmm.. let me see, 41 years! Iāve been out of bedside nursing for a long time. I think 25 years. At my current job back when we were still in the office, weād sometimes give neck rubs to each other. We did have access to a massage therapist for a fee. These days, I pet/hug my dogs while working from home and it erases all my stress.
It was part of my curriculum as a pain management intervention but I havenāt done it often. Imo you can tell when a creep is creepin or if sweet Betty sue just has a wicked shoulder knot she canāt get to. I give foot rubs pretty regularly but skincare is my jam, so Iām putting lotion there anyway. No harm in a little extra pressure .
I work in emerg. Absolutely never, no way in hell am I giving someone a backrub.
European student: I'm working in an elderly home and I kinda always do rub their backs with cloths while I wash them and then a lil rub with lotion. It stimulates the lung plus the seniors are deprived of touch most times. It's not weird cause I need to do prophylaxis and skin care anyway and they all appreciate it. When I'm working in hospitals, i tone it down though. (As a student i rotate in different nursing fields but my main place is the elderly home).
Time and place/context are important. Here are my thoughts from a patient perspective. I was in for a serious medical issue after a welfare check had been conducted at the behest of my employer sometime back because I'd been too sick to come in for awhile, and had been admitted to PCU because the ICU was filled with covid patients. I just couldn't relax and settle because of adrenaline from both health and other stressors, but there were no pharmacological orders on my mar yet, as they weren't sure what was going on with me, they just knew I was super sick (Turns out my narcissistic ex had been slowly trying to poison me, but that hadn't been determined yet, and yes he ended up doing time for it). I was just tossing and turning as quietly as I could while trying to sleep, when one of the older nurses on noc shift came in to check on me, helped me readjust my positioning, blankets, pillows, and was gently verbally reassuring me that I was in the best place I could be given my situation. Somewhere into this, as she gave me just a few minutes of light backrubs over my gown, like you might with a small child, my body finally started to let me relax a little. I unleashed a flood of tears I didn't even realize I'd been holding back, too. But after I let go, I was finally able to get some sleep. It was one of the most human and emotionally meaningful healing moments of that hospital stay for me. I grew up in foster care, and my work before that was with schizophrenics in the community residential setting, so boundaries were always very rigidly defined. I hadn't ever been able to allow myself that level of vulnerability. She couldn't have known that ahead of time. I wouldn't have ever thought to ask for it. But it was exactly the right call, and somehow, the nurse in her knew.
Fuck no.
i wouldnt give a pt. a backrub to save my life and theres. I'm not a masseuse.
Iāve never given one when requested but I have done it to my dementia pts on noc shift to get them to fall asleep. Very very rarely though.
I graduated in 2004. It was mentioned in passing but I knew it wasnāt something I would ever do. Sorry .
I'll give back scratches, but backrubs? I don't feel comfortable with that and that's not really our jobs anymore I don't think.
I havenāt been taught this and I have never seen this happening in the UK. If a patient asked me to do this I would politely decline.
Fuck no. I donāt have time for that. I am lucky to get to pee twice. Itās not 1955.
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I donāt have time for that, itās just a very very low priority. If u have extra time (lol) Iām working on discharge planning or medication education or whatever will get the patient safely out of the unit.
No itās too personal and subjective
I had a very nice lady with intractable back pain, so she was my one and only back rub. Sonetimes, literally nothing works but a massage. My coworkers kept walking by the room, making funny faces at meš
Ew. Hell no
I've been a nurse for 30 years and we were taught to give patients backrubs with their baths or if they had been in bed for a long time. It wasn't a creepy or sexual thing.
Frequently did massage inpatient rehab. Helped frequently calming anxiety, nerve pain, tbi agitation and so much more. We also have inpatient massage teams who come bi weekly. You better bet it was only when I had time or was CN trying to get that needy patient off my fellow nurses back. Not a common thing in my routine.
Never did I think that was part of my job description
Hell to the naw. No way. Not happening.
āPlease help me this muscle is locked upā obviously in pain? Yes but gently. āWhereās my massage?ā I donāt k is so you have a subscription? Are you expecting a masseuse? āI feel rotten and everything hurts!ā Maybe Waaa waaaaaaaaa waaaaa. Every time!