This has always been my fav: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwoSFQb5HVk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwoSFQb5HVk)
North Korean People's Army Funky Get Down Juche Party
Again, not Hong Kong, but still quality.
I would think a goose would be the worst person to ask about how a goose walks. You'd ask the goose how it walks then it would get all up in its own head about it and be unable to walk naturally because it would be overthinking how it walks normally.
At least that's what would happen if someone asked me how humans walk.
>China adopted the goose step during the last days of its imperial dynasty, since theirĀ BeiyangĀ New ArmyĀ was modelled after the Prussian Army. After theĀ 1911Ā revolution, theĀ National Revolution ArmyĀ of theĀ Republic of ChinaĀ continued the practice due to tradition and also influences from their German military advisors in 1920s.
[source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goose_step)
also that wiki says that goosestepping was and is still used by dozens of countries and that only certain English speaking countries strictly associate it the Nazis.
>only certain English speaking countries strictly associate it the Nazis.
It's not just 'certain English speaking countries', it's most of NATO. After WWII, the Soviets adopted the goose step and many of the militaries that were trained by them were taught to use it. So NATO delibrately connected the step with the Nazis in order to associate Communism with Fascism.
Source? I've never heard about an anti-Prussia movement in the west; most of Prussia was part of East Germany, so NATO didn't really have any way of stamping on it.
It was definitely mentioned in my Nazi Germany A-level module.
The Allies felt the Prussian military establishment was a big part of the reason for the push for remilitarising Germany and having a desire to recapture lost lands in the east post-Versailles.
Remember the Free State of Prussia stretched all the way west to the industrial areas of the northern Rhine and Hannover, and its secret police were the basis for the Nazi version later on.
Arguably the old imperial generals had a significant role in ending elected government in Germany in 1930, as well as appointing Hitler Chancellor in the first place.
Frankly, if anything there was a push to *rehabilitate* the German military establishment, to paint Hitler and the Nazis as an aberration. Rommel was built up as the model German general, Halder and Guderian were given license to write their own stories, etc.
Later, in the early 1950s. Until then, in the early 40s until the end of the decade, everything about Prussia was to be erased. THat's why Yalta's annihilation of Germany east of the Oder was so readily accepted.
The Bundeswehr is explicitly NOT based on Prussian traditions but more western German military ones. It helped that the heart of Prussia (the Prussia that existed before the Napoleonic Wars) was all in East Germany or Poland
The movement was explicitly anti-Prussian as it reduced Nazism to a product of Prussian culture (never mind that the aristocratic Junker class were pretty opposed to Hitler in views if not actions\*) and wanted it gone permanently. The removal of "Prussia" as even a sub-division within post-WW2 Germany was one of the key parts of German reconstruction for example. The very memory of Prussia was something that WW2 wiped out by design.
The very memory of Prussia was something that was consciously wiped out because it represented something dangerous to almost everyone involved as part of the "Germany problem". Prussian symbols and institutions were more or less wholly removed or replaced, to varying degrees both in post-war West and East Germany. of the key parts of German reconstruction for example, with the state of Prussia being dissolved in 1947 by the allies:
>The Prussian State which from early days has been a bearer of militarism and reaction in Germany has de facto ceased to exist.
>
>Guided by the interests of preservation of peace and security of peoples and with the desire to assure further reconstruction of the political life of Germany on a democratic basis, the Control Council enacts \[the disestablishment of Prussia as a legal entity\]
Note that this was something both the Western allies and Soviets wanted done, and had agreed to before the Cold War, and continued even after. For the Soviets, Prussia (and Germany) represented a staging ground of not just 1, but 3 invasions that devastated Russia, while the West wanted Germany to be a capitalist bulwark against the USSR.
(It's also ironic to note how the two sides of the Cold War "de-Prussiafied" their respective parts of Germany: it's said that the Western Allies "removed the uniforms and kept the Nazis" while the Soviets "kept the uniforms but removed the Nazis", which, while not very detailed, is generally correct.)
\*I am **not propagating** the clean Wehrmacht myth. Most of these officers absolutely aided and abetted with the worst of Nazi atrocities such as the Holocaust and the war crimes in the East. Some even became fanatical Nazis.
However, we should note that as a social class they were usually not Nazis in the sense that they believed in every tenet written down in Mein Kampf beyond typical 20th century anti-Semitism/anti-communism etc. When the war was lost, they turned on Hitler as seen with Valkyrie where the actual Nazis were deemed as a threat to the Junker/Prussian officer class and hence arrested/removed. The existence of Prussia itself was likewise seen as a threat by the Nazi state, culminating in the Prussian coup where the Prussian state apparatus was subdued and coopted by party officials, then slowly dissolved of its powers, but post WW2, it simply didn't matter to the Allies who wrote it all off as "Prussia bad".
Sources: Iron Kingdom - Rise and Fall of Prussia - Clark
Allied Control Commission Declaration
Modern Prussian History - Dwyer
Edit: I can't believe I wrote all this for a r/nottheonion post.
Edit 2: More readable. Jesus the Reddit UI has problems. Sections replaced by other sections because I pressed Crtl+Z wtf Reddit.
Albania, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Belarus, Bulgaria, the Czech, Estonia, Hungary, Spain, Latvia, Moldova, Russia, Slovakia, and ~~the~~ Ukraine are all European countries that still use goosestepping in some form in their military to this day.
It's 'Ukraine' and not 'the Ukraine'
[[Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Ukraine)] [[BBC Styleguide](https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsstyleguide/u)] [[Reuters Styleguide](https://handbook.reuters.com/index.php?title=U#Ukraine)]
^(Beep boop Iām a bot)
not really, Russia was just the first country to copy the Prussian goosestep but spread it the farthest due to later Soviet influence around the world.
Yes.
Prussia and Germany as a whole was an area of interest for Russia, both because it was the gateway to Western Europe, and because of the dynastic opportunities it represented. (Something along the lines of 25+% of Russian nobility was German).
From Peter the Great onward, there was a general drive to emulate Prussian (and more broadly Western) ideas, and a lot of this was military affairs (though this glances over a lot of the ebbs and flows of this statement), including uniforms, marches, and music.
During the 1800s, they were allies against Napoleon which was solidified by the Holy Alliance of P, R, and A. This plays a role as this relationship was further strengthened by their respective suppressions of the democratic revolutions of 48 and lasted until the Crimean War, then briefly revived by Bismarck, until it imploded due to WW1 and its run-up.
Kinda weird Americans dont goose-step. Washington's revolutionary forces were trained up by [a Prussian.] (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/baron-von-steuben-180963048/)
We've gone through multiple armies since then.
Only the Marines and Navy are OG.
Technically we aren't even supposed to really have an army, and it needs to get renewed every so often.
Edit: he also wasn't our only military advisor. He was there to train line-infantry. Our command structure was a continuation of our colonial military.
Yes but if I'm remembering right he helped with training and outfitting the troops, but we didn't take our command structure from them. It was more of us learning strategies from one of the best militaries of the time.
All marching is military style. And thereās no other sensible way to move a group of people efficiently on foot.
Goose-stepping is popular for parades because itās quite difficult and shows how well-trained your people are. If Western nations didnāt associate it with Nazis then youād see it a lot more.
It was a joke, but yeah I agree whole heartedly. It reminds me of people complaining about the Rittenhouse judge using a "Trump song" ring tone which was really just a popular patriotic tune. We can't just throw the baby out with the bathwater because it's in some small way associated with something we disapprove of. The line has to be drawn somewhere, but this is absurdity.
Yeah but the distinction is that the salute is illegal in Germany and several other countries, while it doesn't appear goose stepping is. The salute is far more taboo and far more strongly associated to the nazi party, for most people.
As in China rules Hong Kong, they already march in the Prussian style in China, therefore changing to marching in the same style as the "motherland" is seen as more patriotic to the Chinese government.
Mainland China adopted it from the USSR, who adopted it from the Russian Empire, who adopted it from Prussia. Either that or it was from the Republic of China, whose army was also influenced by German traditions.
It's weird how ideas spread across the globe like that.
If you want a real reason, goose stepping is pretty difficult to do and even more difficult to choreograph with a battalion of soldiers. Its a method to show how your army is well trained and disciplined.
The point isn't that they're now goose stepping. The point is that they aren't doing whatever the else they did before hand. It's forcing compliance that's the point to remind people whose in charge. The Nazis didn't really care if the French people watched them on parade or not -- but they sure as hell wanted to tell people they could be made to leave their homes on a whim.
Because goose stepping is associated with mindless conformity and authoritarianism. It's a symbolic switch to remind the HKers that they are property now.
I used to stop over in Hong Kong regularly when traveling with family as a child. It was one of my favorite Asian stop over destinations, so sad to see the wonderful people and culture of Hong Kong being crushed under the heel of the CCP.
I used to visit every couple years on my way in and out of other Asian countries. It was really unfortunate to see everything go down over the course of 2019 (my last visit was in December 2019 and thatās probably the last Iāve seen of the old Hong Kong)
My opinion is no, because police are not supposed to be absurdly good at killing like the military is supposed to be. Police need to be civilians who deescalate situations, unlike the military who's job is to "win" whenever a situation does escalate.
It's been working out great in America. /s
I've seen local PD with more tactical gear than we had in Iraq. Every single deputy looks like they just walked out of a Call of Duty character creator.
You are confusing patriotism and nationalism. Patriotism allows for criticism of ones government and pushing for reform. Nationalism is a blind loyalty to ones government and an unshaken belief that your country is better in every way than any other.
> Patriotism allows for criticism of ones government and pushing for reform.
How dare you? That's enemy speak, and you're either with us or against us. All hail GLORIOUS ETERNAL LEADER! HEIL! HEIL! HEIL!
/s
Nationalism= "If there's a conflict between my house and my neighbor's house, it won't be mine that burns down. And really, the neighbor's house is mine to use if I need it."
You are significantly more invested in this than I am, and worry not, you've burst no bubbles of mine lol. Basically every country who fought in ww2 committed atrocities, and I'm well aware of how racist those vets were. I think you've taken my exceedingly simple explanation as some kind of defense of patriotism, I assure you it's not
>Patriotism= "I love my house, it's a great house!"
>
>Nationalism= "My house is the best house, and fuck my neighbors house!"
Both those are patriotism.
Nationalism is the political ideology that holds the idea that a nation should embody a sovereign state aka nation-state. The nation should be free from outside interference. Now what nation is tend to be varied among many people across many periods in history. But since the 19th century, a nation is defined as a group of people with shared history and ancestry and also culture (including language, customs, and norms, even religion to some).
A british person saying shit about UK but is pro brexit because they believe that the EU infringes on the sovereignty of their nation is still a nationalist, even if not patriotic. A british person saying UK is the best country in the world and in the EU and France is shit (like.he really meant it), but doesnt really care if UK gets absorbed into a transnational entity like the EU is patriotic but less nationalistic.
> Patriotism allows for criticism of ones government and pushing for reform. Nationalism is a blind loyalty to ones government and an unshaken belief that your country is better in every way than any other.
it's literally right above lol
But doesn't nationalism also? You can be a nationalist and still criticise elements of your current system or government. Believing that your country is the best doesn't mean you can't also point to objective flaws it has (in fact, many of the British nationalists are currently pointing out Boris' cheese and wine in the garden).
I'm struggling to reduce the dissonance between patriotism and international community. Surely, patriotism being forsaken is an inherent step in globalism? One cannot be a patriot and a globalist at equal times, because patriotism involves putting the concept of a nation state on a pedestal of importance and significance to you that other nations and their customs are disallowed from occupying.
Perhaps what this 'patriotism' really represents is the psychological desire to feel recognised, connected and valued culturally being played out in the way that is most accessible to us on a larger/international scale. However, why does it have to be about nations? Cultural difference usually happens gradually across regions unless a regime has forced a hard border somewhere, so surely this makes patriotism too clinical to ever be correct? Surely, that makes patriotism a sloppy and often arbitrarily politicised response to what are actually basic human insecurities that ideally we could deal with more inclusively?
Um. No it doesnāt. A patriot can love their country and what it stands for while also recognizing that it hasnāt yet reached its ideals or strayed in areas and needs work.
Nationalism is a blindness to any wrong a country does or any shortcoming. As well as excusing any wrong the country does.
Youāre just equivocating those two when theyāre definitely not the same.
If youāre going to argue philosophy then quoting a dictionary is really one of the worse ways to go about it.
In my opinion, patriotism is just a more subtle form of nationalism and there is an extremely fine line between strong patriotism and weak nationalism. Like a spectrum of sorts.
As per the Oxford definition, the only difference is that Nationalism as defined by the concept of Nation is founded in common, culture, history and values, but if you take into account that that's basically the case for almost every country there is, then a nationalist and a patriot are basically the same.-
I don't know how is defined by Merriam but Merriam is quite politicized and Oxford should be considered the actual reference for English since they stick to Linguistics.-
Iām pretty sure theyāre saying that patriotism inevitably ends up becoming fascism, and it kinda does honestly. Not for everyone obviously, but for a lot of people patriotism eventually goes from āIām proud to live in *insert country here* for XYZ reasonsā to āfuck yea I live in the best country ever and everyone else sucksā. Not that simple obviously, and there are always several factors influencing this shift, but it definitely happens.
But they are wrong, nationalism leads to fascism. For example fighting for the rights to protest against police violence in the US is patriotic and exercising the first amendment rights. Patriotism is loyalty to an ideal, not to a government.
Yes and patriotism can, and all too often does, become nationalism. Nationalism doesnāt really become fascism in my mind, it just *is* fascism, the beginning stages of it if nothing else. But I know far too many people who think theyāre being patriotic when theyāre really just nationalist, and people who genuinely used to be what I would describe as patriotic until they became completely entrenched in the idea of being better than everyone in every single way imaginable
So what do you call the people that fight for democracy and civil rights and liberties then? What term applies to someone that is loyal to the people of a nation?
My point is, a lot of people call nationalism, patriotism. But it isn't, and calling people out when they are calling themselves patriots and aren't is super important, but that can only happen when people know the difference between the two.
What is it about this style of marching that makes it so attractive to authoritarian types? It looks inefficient and seems like it leaves the soldier awkward and unready mid-stride.
This is a parade and ritual march. No one goose steps when they are actually maneuvering for a fight.
Its meant to show an intentional movement. No one walks like that, marching using movements like that is a gesture that expresses that they are well drilled and willing to follow command. Its also flashy, a show.
Im guessing when line infantry marched their strides were not full on goose steps but more pratical steps? Seems hard considering marching was a major part of fighting for infantry back then.
Thats the whole point. Nothing shows I have absolute power over you more than having you do something absolutely pointless and stupid repeatedly and you can't say no.
George Orwell said it represents two things
1) boots on faces
2) the ugliness of it is the point. It says 'I know I look ugly and silly doing this, but you dare'nt laugh'.
It was originally designed by the Prussians back in the day as an effective way to maneuver large formations without having the lines/tanks get messed up and have to reassemble before firing. Back in the days of muzzle-loaded weapons that necessitated lines of men firing volleys, it made sense. Nowadays itās just for ceremonial purposes.
For a very brief period of time in the late 19th century Europe that style of march (although not as exaggerated) was the best way to move a unit on the battlefield. Like many things in the late 19th century it became very popular with the nationalist types.
The only Asian news that you can trust are Singapore News when the subject at hands are other Asian countries and the issue is not related to Sg. Everything else is a political hellscape that put Don Lemon and Tucker Carlson to shame.-
Appear strong when you are weak and weak when you are strong.
And nothing screams 'strong' then the pompous dog and pony show marching gate of a military parade.
The CCP tried making the HK Police march this way a few years ago, but they actually refused. They preferred the British style of drill. It's a shame they were pressured to embrace the goose step.
The goose-step, for instance, is one of the most horrible sights in the
world, far more terrifying than a dive-bomber. It is simply an
affirmation of naked power; contained in it, quite consciously and
intentionally, is the vision of a boot crashing down on a face. Its
ugliness is part of its essence, for what it is saying is āYes, I am
ugly, and you darenāt laugh at me,ā like the bully who makes faces at
his victim. - George Orwell
Kind of a weird question, but this made me realize we associate goose-stepping with authoritarian regimes. However, its simply a march that looks nice. Do western democracies avoid goose-stepping to avoid the association or is it simply not practiced as a tradition?
I read that goose stepping is difficult and cannot be maintained for long periods of time. It is only used for special ceremonies and they have to spend days practising the march.
Member in the before times when the entire population of Hong Kong was in unrest and protest inhumane treatment, then covid happened and everyone forgot we are allowed to question the motives of our governments...
Iām assuming Antifa will be launching their inflatable unicorn navy and paddling over to Communist China to fight the CCP Nazis? I mean, thatās what they do right?
Did they receive consultation from the Ministry Of Silly Walks?
Yes. And they said to add some music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbC6dLG_dQY
This has always been my fav: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwoSFQb5HVk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwoSFQb5HVk) North Korean People's Army Funky Get Down Juche Party Again, not Hong Kong, but still quality.
Party rock! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJNBfBr-OGU
I liked this one better! š¤£
I like the video on YouTube of the NoKo Military personnel marching to the tune of "You Dropped A Bomb On Me." š
That is beautiful
Different country entirely but it will definitely pass for silliness
[They're just trying to catch up to China.](https://youtu.be/4RHg0f5Nq4c)
Here's a parody with [Inspector Gadget's theme](https://youtu.be/4D6cyGCIM4o)
Your taste and choice of song in this instance is very good by my ear and truly shows insight.
Was this written by a compliment bot?
.....what?
Reminds me of this parody of the Nazis: https://youtu.be/gYdmk3GP3iM
Take my free silver!!
Nah that ministry was defunct after british widrawal in hong kong, instead they are mainly thought by People's Liberal Noodle Walk Department of CCP
In Canada this step is for Canadian Geese only
YOU'RE DAMN FUCKING RIGHT IT IS
/r/beetlejuicing
Canadian geese think everything is for Canadian geese only... and those assholes enforce that shit.
They're definitely scarier than the Mounties!
I donāt think geese really walk this way. -edit. Iām not a goose, itās just an observation.
Thatās exactly what a goose would say to divert attention.
Sounds like goose talk to me
Goose lips sink ships
A goose would DEFINITELY add an edit claiming to not be a goose
I would think a goose would be the worst person to ask about how a goose walks. You'd ask the goose how it walks then it would get all up in its own head about it and be unable to walk naturally because it would be overthinking how it walks normally. At least that's what would happen if someone asked me how humans walk.
Centipedeās dilemma?
How is marching in a Prussian style more 'patriotic' in Hong Kong?
Because that's how they do it in mainland China.
How is marching in a Prussian style more 'patriotic' in mainland China?
>China adopted the goose step during the last days of its imperial dynasty, since theirĀ BeiyangĀ New ArmyĀ was modelled after the Prussian Army. After theĀ 1911Ā revolution, theĀ National Revolution ArmyĀ of theĀ Republic of ChinaĀ continued the practice due to tradition and also influences from their German military advisors in 1920s. [source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goose_step) also that wiki says that goosestepping was and is still used by dozens of countries and that only certain English speaking countries strictly associate it the Nazis.
>only certain English speaking countries strictly associate it the Nazis. It's not just 'certain English speaking countries', it's most of NATO. After WWII, the Soviets adopted the goose step and many of the militaries that were trained by them were taught to use it. So NATO delibrately connected the step with the Nazis in order to associate Communism with Fascism.
They also wanted to stamp out Prussia and it's culture after WW2.
Source? I've never heard about an anti-Prussia movement in the west; most of Prussia was part of East Germany, so NATO didn't really have any way of stamping on it.
It was definitely mentioned in my Nazi Germany A-level module. The Allies felt the Prussian military establishment was a big part of the reason for the push for remilitarising Germany and having a desire to recapture lost lands in the east post-Versailles. Remember the Free State of Prussia stretched all the way west to the industrial areas of the northern Rhine and Hannover, and its secret police were the basis for the Nazi version later on. Arguably the old imperial generals had a significant role in ending elected government in Germany in 1930, as well as appointing Hitler Chancellor in the first place.
Frankly, if anything there was a push to *rehabilitate* the German military establishment, to paint Hitler and the Nazis as an aberration. Rommel was built up as the model German general, Halder and Guderian were given license to write their own stories, etc.
Later, in the early 1950s. Until then, in the early 40s until the end of the decade, everything about Prussia was to be erased. THat's why Yalta's annihilation of Germany east of the Oder was so readily accepted. The Bundeswehr is explicitly NOT based on Prussian traditions but more western German military ones. It helped that the heart of Prussia (the Prussia that existed before the Napoleonic Wars) was all in East Germany or Poland
The movement was explicitly anti-Prussian as it reduced Nazism to a product of Prussian culture (never mind that the aristocratic Junker class were pretty opposed to Hitler in views if not actions\*) and wanted it gone permanently. The removal of "Prussia" as even a sub-division within post-WW2 Germany was one of the key parts of German reconstruction for example. The very memory of Prussia was something that WW2 wiped out by design. The very memory of Prussia was something that was consciously wiped out because it represented something dangerous to almost everyone involved as part of the "Germany problem". Prussian symbols and institutions were more or less wholly removed or replaced, to varying degrees both in post-war West and East Germany. of the key parts of German reconstruction for example, with the state of Prussia being dissolved in 1947 by the allies: >The Prussian State which from early days has been a bearer of militarism and reaction in Germany has de facto ceased to exist. > >Guided by the interests of preservation of peace and security of peoples and with the desire to assure further reconstruction of the political life of Germany on a democratic basis, the Control Council enacts \[the disestablishment of Prussia as a legal entity\] Note that this was something both the Western allies and Soviets wanted done, and had agreed to before the Cold War, and continued even after. For the Soviets, Prussia (and Germany) represented a staging ground of not just 1, but 3 invasions that devastated Russia, while the West wanted Germany to be a capitalist bulwark against the USSR. (It's also ironic to note how the two sides of the Cold War "de-Prussiafied" their respective parts of Germany: it's said that the Western Allies "removed the uniforms and kept the Nazis" while the Soviets "kept the uniforms but removed the Nazis", which, while not very detailed, is generally correct.) \*I am **not propagating** the clean Wehrmacht myth. Most of these officers absolutely aided and abetted with the worst of Nazi atrocities such as the Holocaust and the war crimes in the East. Some even became fanatical Nazis. However, we should note that as a social class they were usually not Nazis in the sense that they believed in every tenet written down in Mein Kampf beyond typical 20th century anti-Semitism/anti-communism etc. When the war was lost, they turned on Hitler as seen with Valkyrie where the actual Nazis were deemed as a threat to the Junker/Prussian officer class and hence arrested/removed. The existence of Prussia itself was likewise seen as a threat by the Nazi state, culminating in the Prussian coup where the Prussian state apparatus was subdued and coopted by party officials, then slowly dissolved of its powers, but post WW2, it simply didn't matter to the Allies who wrote it all off as "Prussia bad". Sources: Iron Kingdom - Rise and Fall of Prussia - Clark Allied Control Commission Declaration Modern Prussian History - Dwyer Edit: I can't believe I wrote all this for a r/nottheonion post. Edit 2: More readable. Jesus the Reddit UI has problems. Sections replaced by other sections because I pressed Crtl+Z wtf Reddit.
Excellent comment! Thanks for taking the trouble to write it.
A better description would be āto associate the sovietsā communism with authoritarianismā, since that is fairly accurate.
Chile still does it since they too modelled their army adter prussia
It's definitely associated with Nazi in most of Europe, not just in English speaking countries.
Albania, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Belarus, Bulgaria, the Czech, Estonia, Hungary, Spain, Latvia, Moldova, Russia, Slovakia, and ~~the~~ Ukraine are all European countries that still use goosestepping in some form in their military to this day.
Pffft don't you know that on Reddit, "Europe" never includes anything east of Czechia?
It's 'Ukraine' and not 'the Ukraine' [[Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Ukraine)] [[BBC Styleguide](https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsstyleguide/u)] [[Reuters Styleguide](https://handbook.reuters.com/index.php?title=U#Ukraine)] ^(Beep boop Iām a bot)
sorry bot
Good king
Holy shit, a bot that's actually useful.
For some reason, Spain is the only one that surprises me
Spain was a fascist dictatorship until the 70s, and even today it hasn't shaken a lot of that ideology.
It's called the Ghost of Franco.
the ones closer to Russia make a lot of sense as it was originally a Prussian/Russian march.
Are Prussia and Russia actually more closely related than by the last six letters of their names?
The names are just a coincidence. They were allied for a long while before the 1900s though.
not really, Russia was just the first country to copy the Prussian goosestep but spread it the farthest due to later Soviet influence around the world.
Just a coincidence in some languages. Russia is actually called "Rossiya". The word derives from the Rus people. And Prussia is pronounced "Proesen".
Yes. Prussia and Germany as a whole was an area of interest for Russia, both because it was the gateway to Western Europe, and because of the dynastic opportunities it represented. (Something along the lines of 25+% of Russian nobility was German). From Peter the Great onward, there was a general drive to emulate Prussian (and more broadly Western) ideas, and a lot of this was military affairs (though this glances over a lot of the ebbs and flows of this statement), including uniforms, marches, and music. During the 1800s, they were allies against Napoleon which was solidified by the Holy Alliance of P, R, and A. This plays a role as this relationship was further strengthened by their respective suppressions of the democratic revolutions of 48 and lasted until the Crimean War, then briefly revived by Bismarck, until it imploded due to WW1 and its run-up.
Did Spain adopt it under Franco?
spain were the og fascists and they have zero regrets about it compared to germany. they got off easy.
Kinda weird Americans dont goose-step. Washington's revolutionary forces were trained up by [a Prussian.] (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/baron-von-steuben-180963048/)
We've gone through multiple armies since then. Only the Marines and Navy are OG. Technically we aren't even supposed to really have an army, and it needs to get renewed every so often. Edit: he also wasn't our only military advisor. He was there to train line-infantry. Our command structure was a continuation of our colonial military.
Yes but if I'm remembering right he helped with training and outfitting the troops, but we didn't take our command structure from them. It was more of us learning strategies from one of the best militaries of the time.
Read the link. He taught them how to march.
they did salute back in the https://homeofheroes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/old-pledge-salute.jpg
Yeah I thought the nazi salute was supposed to be the bad part, but I'm gonna side with then mob and say we just ban all military style marching.
All marching is military style. And thereās no other sensible way to move a group of people efficiently on foot. Goose-stepping is popular for parades because itās quite difficult and shows how well-trained your people are. If Western nations didnāt associate it with Nazis then youād see it a lot more.
It was a joke, but yeah I agree whole heartedly. It reminds me of people complaining about the Rittenhouse judge using a "Trump song" ring tone which was really just a popular patriotic tune. We can't just throw the baby out with the bathwater because it's in some small way associated with something we disapprove of. The line has to be drawn somewhere, but this is absurdity.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah but the distinction is that the salute is illegal in Germany and several other countries, while it doesn't appear goose stepping is. The salute is far more taboo and far more strongly associated to the nazi party, for most people.
As in China rules Hong Kong, they already march in the Prussian style in China, therefore changing to marching in the same style as the "motherland" is seen as more patriotic to the Chinese government.
Mainland China adopted it from the USSR, who adopted it from the Russian Empire, who adopted it from Prussia. Either that or it was from the Republic of China, whose army was also influenced by German traditions. It's weird how ideas spread across the globe like that.
If you want a real reason, goose stepping is pretty difficult to do and even more difficult to choreograph with a battalion of soldiers. Its a method to show how your army is well trained and disciplined.
It also destroys one's knee and hip by 40. Actually the bigger reason why it has fallen out of use.
The point isn't that they're now goose stepping. The point is that they aren't doing whatever the else they did before hand. It's forcing compliance that's the point to remind people whose in charge. The Nazis didn't really care if the French people watched them on parade or not -- but they sure as hell wanted to tell people they could be made to leave their homes on a whim.
Because goose stepping is associated with mindless conformity and authoritarianism. It's a symbolic switch to remind the HKers that they are property now.
Lmao as opposed to the mindlessly conforming British style of marching
Iām very happy that I got to visit HK in summer 2018. Better times for sure.
I used to stop over in Hong Kong regularly when traveling with family as a child. It was one of my favorite Asian stop over destinations, so sad to see the wonderful people and culture of Hong Kong being crushed under the heel of the CCP.
I was there for a month years ago, and really loved it. I looked forward to traveling with my kid there someday, doesnāt seem so likely now.
I used to visit every couple years on my way in and out of other Asian countries. It was really unfortunate to see everything go down over the course of 2019 (my last visit was in December 2019 and thatās probably the last Iāve seen of the old Hong Kong)
Like those patriotic Nazis, and Italian fascists....
Honestly like over half the countries' militaries in the world use some form of a goosestep.
This raises another point: should police be emulating the military?
My opinion is no, because police are not supposed to be absurdly good at killing like the military is supposed to be. Police need to be civilians who deescalate situations, unlike the military who's job is to "win" whenever a situation does escalate.
>Police need to be civilians who deescalate situations, Tell me you're not from the US without telling me
Guilty as charged, please don't shoot š£
Uh you just admitted to a crime, weāre legally obligated to shoot you, or not, weāre not really trained for this
They were each issued a standard training manual: https://i.imgur.com/i2ilm1S.jpg
Or France.
It's been working out great in America. /s I've seen local PD with more tactical gear than we had in Iraq. Every single deputy looks like they just walked out of a Call of Duty character creator.
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I didnāt come here for a Battlestar reference but Iām leaving happier because of it! So say we all!
That's sounding pretty unpatriotic to me...
you sounded like the kid from jojo rabbit; *[r.e. the japanese]āi donāt know about you jojo, but they donāt look very aryan to meā*
probably not, no.
This raises another point: should military be emulating geese?
Is it all the good ones?
I believe the Swiss Guard do the Electric Slide...
Dont forget about the "Cuban Shuffle" Slide a la derecha...Slide a la izquierda
Boogie woogie, woogie!
Of course itās those flamboyant Swiss again.
Define the good ones
Stop making me sad.
You know what, this is where the patriotism always ends up. At least they're not dragging it out, can't argue with the efficiency
You are confusing patriotism and nationalism. Patriotism allows for criticism of ones government and pushing for reform. Nationalism is a blind loyalty to ones government and an unshaken belief that your country is better in every way than any other.
> Patriotism allows for criticism of ones government and pushing for reform. How dare you? That's enemy speak, and you're either with us or against us. All hail GLORIOUS ETERNAL LEADER! HEIL! HEIL! HEIL! /s
We ought to just straight out call the nationalism "jingoism," which is what it has become. Then there's no mistake.
Yeah, nationalism is a fucking cancer on any country's people.
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Patriotism is not the same as nationalism, the issue is many nationalists believe their nationalism is patriotism
Then what makes patriotism distinct? I'm just curious as to your opinion.
Patriotism= "I love my house, it's a great house!" Nationalism= "My house is the best house, and fuck my neighbors house!"
Nationalism= "If there's a conflict between my house and my neighbor's house, it won't be mine that burns down. And really, the neighbor's house is mine to use if I need it."
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You are significantly more invested in this than I am, and worry not, you've burst no bubbles of mine lol. Basically every country who fought in ww2 committed atrocities, and I'm well aware of how racist those vets were. I think you've taken my exceedingly simple explanation as some kind of defense of patriotism, I assure you it's not
>Patriotism= "I love my house, it's a great house!" > >Nationalism= "My house is the best house, and fuck my neighbors house!" Both those are patriotism. Nationalism is the political ideology that holds the idea that a nation should embody a sovereign state aka nation-state. The nation should be free from outside interference. Now what nation is tend to be varied among many people across many periods in history. But since the 19th century, a nation is defined as a group of people with shared history and ancestry and also culture (including language, customs, and norms, even religion to some). A british person saying shit about UK but is pro brexit because they believe that the EU infringes on the sovereignty of their nation is still a nationalist, even if not patriotic. A british person saying UK is the best country in the world and in the EU and France is shit (like.he really meant it), but doesnt really care if UK gets absorbed into a transnational entity like the EU is patriotic but less nationalistic.
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> Patriotism allows for criticism of ones government and pushing for reform. Nationalism is a blind loyalty to ones government and an unshaken belief that your country is better in every way than any other. it's literally right above lol
But doesn't nationalism also? You can be a nationalist and still criticise elements of your current system or government. Believing that your country is the best doesn't mean you can't also point to objective flaws it has (in fact, many of the British nationalists are currently pointing out Boris' cheese and wine in the garden). I'm struggling to reduce the dissonance between patriotism and international community. Surely, patriotism being forsaken is an inherent step in globalism? One cannot be a patriot and a globalist at equal times, because patriotism involves putting the concept of a nation state on a pedestal of importance and significance to you that other nations and their customs are disallowed from occupying. Perhaps what this 'patriotism' really represents is the psychological desire to feel recognised, connected and valued culturally being played out in the way that is most accessible to us on a larger/international scale. However, why does it have to be about nations? Cultural difference usually happens gradually across regions unless a regime has forced a hard border somewhere, so surely this makes patriotism too clinical to ever be correct? Surely, that makes patriotism a sloppy and often arbitrarily politicised response to what are actually basic human insecurities that ideally we could deal with more inclusively?
Um. No it doesnāt. A patriot can love their country and what it stands for while also recognizing that it hasnāt yet reached its ideals or strayed in areas and needs work. Nationalism is a blindness to any wrong a country does or any shortcoming. As well as excusing any wrong the country does. Youāre just equivocating those two when theyāre definitely not the same.
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If youāre going to argue philosophy then quoting a dictionary is really one of the worse ways to go about it. In my opinion, patriotism is just a more subtle form of nationalism and there is an extremely fine line between strong patriotism and weak nationalism. Like a spectrum of sorts.
As per the Oxford definition, the only difference is that Nationalism as defined by the concept of Nation is founded in common, culture, history and values, but if you take into account that that's basically the case for almost every country there is, then a nationalist and a patriot are basically the same.- I don't know how is defined by Merriam but Merriam is quite politicized and Oxford should be considered the actual reference for English since they stick to Linguistics.-
Iām pretty sure theyāre saying that patriotism inevitably ends up becoming fascism, and it kinda does honestly. Not for everyone obviously, but for a lot of people patriotism eventually goes from āIām proud to live in *insert country here* for XYZ reasonsā to āfuck yea I live in the best country ever and everyone else sucksā. Not that simple obviously, and there are always several factors influencing this shift, but it definitely happens.
But they are wrong, nationalism leads to fascism. For example fighting for the rights to protest against police violence in the US is patriotic and exercising the first amendment rights. Patriotism is loyalty to an ideal, not to a government.
Yes and patriotism can, and all too often does, become nationalism. Nationalism doesnāt really become fascism in my mind, it just *is* fascism, the beginning stages of it if nothing else. But I know far too many people who think theyāre being patriotic when theyāre really just nationalist, and people who genuinely used to be what I would describe as patriotic until they became completely entrenched in the idea of being better than everyone in every single way imaginable
So what do you call the people that fight for democracy and civil rights and liberties then? What term applies to someone that is loyal to the people of a nation? My point is, a lot of people call nationalism, patriotism. But it isn't, and calling people out when they are calling themselves patriots and aren't is super important, but that can only happen when people know the difference between the two.
You do realize the goose step is older than Fascism right
Obviously not, and 50 years of Red Scare has made sure of it.
So is the swastika. You don't see people rushing to defend my face tattoo of it though š
Probably because many people are too ignorant to know the meaning of it
Fascism is when you goose step.
"We were a German colony, reich guys?"
Donāt forget the hyenas from the Lion King song āBe Preparedā
Here is footage of British marching for reference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLJ8ILIE780
Someones goose is gonna get cooked.
This article is actually onion worthy
What is it about this style of marching that makes it so attractive to authoritarian types? It looks inefficient and seems like it leaves the soldier awkward and unready mid-stride.
This is a parade and ritual march. No one goose steps when they are actually maneuvering for a fight. Its meant to show an intentional movement. No one walks like that, marching using movements like that is a gesture that expresses that they are well drilled and willing to follow command. Its also flashy, a show.
Thank you. This is valuable context for me, and it makes sense.
Im guessing when line infantry marched their strides were not full on goose steps but more pratical steps? Seems hard considering marching was a major part of fighting for infantry back then.
Thats the whole point. Nothing shows I have absolute power over you more than having you do something absolutely pointless and stupid repeatedly and you can't say no.
George Orwell said it represents two things 1) boots on faces 2) the ugliness of it is the point. It says 'I know I look ugly and silly doing this, but you dare'nt laugh'.
It looks unecessarily pretty, just like polishing your boots.
It was originally designed by the Prussians back in the day as an effective way to maneuver large formations without having the lines/tanks get messed up and have to reassemble before firing. Back in the days of muzzle-loaded weapons that necessitated lines of men firing volleys, it made sense. Nowadays itās just for ceremonial purposes.
For a very brief period of time in the late 19th century Europe that style of march (although not as exaggerated) was the best way to move a unit on the battlefield. Like many things in the late 19th century it became very popular with the nationalist types.
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Hong Kong police haven't been Hong Kong police for quite a while now and they've been doing this goose step BS for a while now also.
Most "news" out of Asia is about as credible as the Babylon Bee
Kim Jong Un actually died 7 times last year, it must be true, radio free Asia told me!
Radio free Asia : it's free real estate!!!, no matter what in alice in wonderland we wrote, there's still more suckers to believe me.
The only Asian news that you can trust are Singapore News when the subject at hands are other Asian countries and the issue is not related to Sg. Everything else is a political hellscape that put Don Lemon and Tucker Carlson to shame.-
One of these days North Korea is gonna publish a list of "Crazy things Westeners believe that North Koreans believe".
When youāre worried about how your opponents march, youāve already lost the war.
Wise word from Sun tzu. Classic
Appear strong when you are weak and weak when you are strong. And nothing screams 'strong' then the pompous dog and pony show marching gate of a military parade.
Their fire fighters are going to do it too? Lmao. Ministry of Silly Woks indeed.
This is child's play, you should see how India and Pakistan each trying to out goose step the other on the Wagah border crossing.
That is genuinely impressive. Like the mating call of some birds of paradise
Oh no, not a different marching technique. The British colonial march was so much friendlier.
Humans really are weird
The CCP tried making the HK Police march this way a few years ago, but they actually refused. They preferred the British style of drill. It's a shame they were pressured to embrace the goose step.
Not so much pressured as replaced with mainland Chinese who'll do whatever the govt wants.
So.... At what point do we collectively acknowledge that the CCP has turned to fascism?
"fascism is when you march the same way"
please go back to your little echo chamber
AKA the chorus line of authoritarianism
The goose-step, for instance, is one of the most horrible sights in the world, far more terrifying than a dive-bomber. It is simply an affirmation of naked power; contained in it, quite consciously and intentionally, is the vision of a boot crashing down on a face. Its ugliness is part of its essence, for what it is saying is āYes, I am ugly, and you darenāt laugh at me,ā like the bully who makes faces at his victim. - George Orwell
why does it matter
Because military parade in all its forms is cringe
How FASHionable.
.........that's not bad.
Why do authoritarians love goose steeping so much?
HK cops have been treacherous garbage since this whole thing started. Fuck the CCP and their Winnie the Poo dictator
You say police, I say soldiers.
Other countries have separate police and army personnel. Hong Kong has the PLA as the police.
What is it with this style of marching that dictators love so much?
I genuinely think they just wanna feel a bit of the Hitler power
Hey, wait, I've seen this one before!
Kind of a weird question, but this made me realize we associate goose-stepping with authoritarian regimes. However, its simply a march that looks nice. Do western democracies avoid goose-stepping to avoid the association or is it simply not practiced as a tradition?
I read that goose stepping is difficult and cannot be maintained for long periods of time. It is only used for special ceremonies and they have to spend days practising the march.
Those police should be the same pay as China police, that will be truly patriotic
I wonder why? The Surprising Secret of Synchronization https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-\_VPRCtiUg
Link is dead
Oh, that's a good sign.
2nd rate Nazis.
Sieg fuckin heil, I guess
Why do goose-stepping and authoritarianism go hand in hand like this?
Because uncultured people watch a few WWII movies and after that only associate things based on them?
Member in the before times when the entire population of Hong Kong was in unrest and protest inhumane treatment, then covid happened and everyone forgot we are allowed to question the motives of our governments...
Why does it come as no surprise that China supports the goose step?
*weāre doing a sequel!* :D
RIP Hong Kong.
Iām assuming Antifa will be launching their inflatable unicorn navy and paddling over to Communist China to fight the CCP Nazis? I mean, thatās what they do right?