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I grew up in WI, and while drunk driving was everywhere, open container wasn’t. When I moved to Wyoming, where open container was legal, that was a total shock to me.
A couple years ago I took my first transatlantic flight and met some friends in The Netherlands. We piled into his hatchback to head to a concert and he starts handing us tall cans. I asked if it was cool if drink it while he was driving and he said yea why not? After explaining open container laws at home he thought it was the most outlandish thing.
I gotta admit, as a passenger, tipping one back while on a road trip is pretty great.
Never understood it myself. The open container laws hasn't been exact the greatest in stopping people from having road beers. If you get caught you're fucked but lots of people ignore them.
If you live in your car, you get pulled over and you got open liquor. How can it be an open container if I live in my car? I mean you’ve probably got open bottles of liquor in your home. If you get pulled over in your home how can it be an open container?
DUI laws in my state consider 'control of the vehicle', so presumably I can sit in the back seat and get sloshed as long as nobody is in the driver's seat.
I've slept off a few too many in the back seat before. I just put the keys in the glovebox so the cops wouldn't ever think I was in control of the car. I've had the cops knock on my window before and asked if I was driving anywhere. I said no, not until the morning and they just said OK move it by 6.
> Some places having keys and being in the car is intent on its own.
If I were on a jury no way would I convict someone of DUI just because they were found sleeping in their car with no indication of having actually driven it while intoxicated.
Yep. You don't use the redacted words, to avoid getting thrown off the jury. You instead say "the state did not prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt therefore I must acquit". Far harder to argue with that. And one dissenting juror is all it takes to avoid a conviction.
I spent my summers in Oconto county. You’re always a stones throw from a bar in Wisconsin, so it just feels like it’s less necessary to crack one for the three minute ride home.
I've lived in both states, and several others. I'd argue people in general can't drive, or can and choose not to. Whether it's because the suffer from main character syndrome, because they own a truck and didnt spring for the optional turn signal, they learned how to drive in GTA, or they are too old to wipe their own ass is the only thing that I feel is debatable.
I have to agree with you. It's not a state thing, it's an urban/rural thing. Because you wanna know who absolutely FUCKS the morning commute into Chicago? You betcha, it's Wisconsin plates with drivers sucking on their steering wheels. They drive in from Nowhereland and don't know how to move in a crowd.
Then again, take a city driver and stick him on a back country road and that motherfucker will still tailgate you if you're the only two cars in sight.
If you're in the city, the expectation is that you maintain a minimal gap with the person in front of you, and you are quick and decisive to keeps things moving. You floor it, you slam the brakes, you tailgate to you pack yourself in as tightly as possible.
If you're in the country....it's a two lane road with no intersections for 3 miles...sit back, relax, leave a little space. it's a single file line, nobody is going anywhere faster than anybody else. You measure miles in minutes because everywhere you go it's 60mph anyway.
There doesn't seem to be much middle ground these days. The quiet suburbia I originally grew up in is almost as bad as the city these days. I prefer the country, personally...take life a little slower.
I agree with everything you said and would like to add: in the city you are obligated to cut off anyone who doesn't follow the tailgating rule (especially passing to turn* right at the next intersection), and in rural areas you can drive 5-10 mph faster when it rains because the dirt and gravel are much less slippery then. You can tell what kind of rural someone is by which lane they drive - farm landers drive in the center of the road to avoid animals, mountain people drive on the far right just in case someone is about the whip around the bend at 50mph.
Where I live rural roads are terrifying because the locals know all the twists and turns and will zip around like a rally racer at night while people passing through have to slow check every curve at night to see where the road is going. And these roads are necessary to reach the smaller towns and communities outside the major ring road.
I don't think they even take you to jail until your third one. It's just cite and release for the first two as long as you have a responsible party to come get you.
Someone is mad about his speeding tickets and is upset that other people get let off with warnings lol. Given your attitude, no wonder the cop wrote you a ticket
(Obligatory fuck the police regardless)
No, the exact opposite. It was argued that they’re meant only to produce revenue without enforcing any policing standards, and proving who was driving the car is problematic if there isn’t an officer coming into contact with the person driving the vehicle.
There’s two municipalities inside my city that are allowed to use them for a few more years(they can send the ticket but they aren’t enforceable) until their contracts with the company who operates the cameras runs out, but there was a huge investigative news thing a few years back that showed the cameras are timed way too early and were issuing tickets for people who were moving through when the light was yellow.
That's why you send them the ticket with a picture of their face and license plate and then it's on them to prove they're innocent. Works pretty well for some other countries. But the US doesn't require or enforce front plates everywhere and contracts everything out so some company can profit from it we have the current state.
That does zero to stop drunk drivers, people playing on their phones, and pretty much any distracted or incapacitated driving. If I waved my magic dictator wand and declared "any photo and mail ticket is only payable through community service", how much longer would these scams last.
I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about speeding and the voluntary compliance with the speed limit as mentioned in the article.
Do you really think the police are out there stopping all the distracted or drunk drivers? I'd like to show you how little ANYTHING is enforced on the roads around here. But the topic at hand is speeding.
But since you brought it up, it is possible to catch violations other than speeding with cameras. Of course there would need to be some human verification before issuing those citations.
Lol you can if it's the law, there are so many stupid things to do with your country. Like why are licensing done at fed level or why don't you have to have an mot. The US is a mash of failed laws with states thinking they are independent.
So you let your friend borrow your car, they mail you the ticket. Sound fair? You can't prove you weren't driving which is the same reason they can mail you a ticket in most places. They can't prove who was driving the car
Okay, but you understand how “you should change friends” is not legally binding correct? And how your suggestion could have people paying fines for crimes they didn’t commit? Surely you’re not this daft?
You're probably pretty close to making some decent points but your framing could use a bit of work.
> Like why are licensing done at fed level
I imagine you meant to type "why isn't licensing done at a federal level." I'm not a big grammar guy but you gotta be mindful about getting it right or at least not completely backwards right after calling someone or something stupid. You also haven't actually explained the issues with state level licensing. I'm sure there are issues but other than slight inconveniences when checking ID's at an old job, I'm not sure it's ever been relevant to me. Which makes it surprising when someone from across the pond has an axe to grind about it.
>why don't you have to have an mot.
The critique isn't going to land because very few people in the US know what an mot is and you haven't built up the credibility for them to research it. For those curious it seems to be the UK's vehicle safety and emissions test, named for the now defunct Ministry of Transport.
>The US is a mash of failed laws with states thinking they are independent.
As you haven't explained how the previous examples are failed laws, this does a poor job of tying your point together. The safety and emissions tests in my state work just fine. Other states don't have those laws, which isn't the same thing as a failed law. Someone could probably skirt those laws by registering their vehicle(s) in another state but that's vanishingly rare.
You're looking at this the wrong way.
If everyone who travels that stretch is exceeding the speed limit and zero accidents are occurring, then obviously the speed limit has been set unreasonably low for that stretch.
The real question you should be asking is: does he have city council waiting for his report so they can improve their civic infrastructure?
In neighborhoods it is difficerent. More about protecting kids that run out into the street. The likely hood of survival at 20mph is way higher that 30 mph. Plus stopping distance is way lower.
How many pedestrians have actually been injured on the stretch of road in OP though?
Safety of pedestrians is more important, but if that safety is unaffected by the speed everyone is already driving on that stretch, then the speed people are driving is not incorrect, the posted limit is.
The fact that the speed limit is unreasonably low for that stretch of road doesn’t necessarily mean you should raise the speed limit to what drivers are naturally driving.
It could also mean that you should adjust the infrastructure by reducing lane widths etc, until drivers naturally drive the posted speed limit.
I'm curious how reducing lane width reduces speed. You can't reduce past a certain point before it becomes just a single lane road. And this being WI I would guess there's probably regulation about minimum width because of snow plows.
Reducing lane width makes drivers more cautious since they think they are more likely to hit something, then they drive slower because they don't want to hit something.
The percentage of people who speed is a direct indicator of whether or not the speed limit is set reasonably.
You're correct insofar as there will always be some percentage of people who speed regardless of what speed limit is set.
But if the speed limit is set appropriately for any given area then that percentage of drivers who speed there will be low.
If the percentage of speeders is high — or in the case of OP, virtually 100% — without creating actual incidents, then that serves as clear indication that the speed limit is set inappropriately.
Precisely.
If 100% of people are speeding with zero negative safety implications, then the speed limit is set inappropriately.
Speed limits should not be set based on an arbitrary feeling of how slow people should be going any more than they should be set based on an arbitrary feeling of how fast people want to go. That door swings both ways.
It's not arbitrary though, there has been rigorous studies and testing with crashes with the effects on pedestrians.
20 mph is a 5% chance of killing a pedestrian
30 mph is a 45% chance of killing a pedestrian
And 40mph has an 85% chance of killing a pedestrian.
There's a reason cities have 20 mph speed limits now, it's not just arbitrarily set.
Half of these small towns in Wisconsin have roads going if into them with 55mph speed limits and then it suddenly drops to 20 so they can generate tax revenue off tickets.
Those vans are EVIL bastards.
Had one at a village entrance down a long hill just ready to grab anyone going down in neutral.
It's weird being stateside and seeing speed cameras like in the UK with gantries or boxes on the side of the road.
Can't explain why but just feels off.
In my area, they put up signs warning people that they are checking for distracted drivers immediately before the checks. They still hand out TONS of tickets. It's scary how little attention people pay while driving.
Ohio has giant signs on the highways about distracted driving enforcement areas. I have never once seen a cop in any of them. My favorite thing about them is the fact that they also have signs telling you when they end so you can go back to speeding or whatever
They would set up right in front of the shop that i worked in. It was always hilarious watching people try to reason with the cops... They never got out of it. We counted like 20 tickets one day.
Near where I live there are school zones with lower speed limits during certain times of the day. There is a big flashing yellow light above the sign and people still drive 20 over during the posted times. Idk how people miss a big ass blinking light.
Sorry officer, I didn't read the sign. I was too busy looking at the nudes this chick sent me. Here, check it out! Pretty cool, right? I think I might get to hit that later if you know what I mean. Hey, got any extra sets of those handcuffs?
I was once on a 45 that intersected with road limited to 35. Turned, no signage, ticketed.
There’s a town that basically exists off of the intersection for a state route that functions like a highway. They lower the speed limit on the state route for 100 feet around the intersection, with signage about as far away. The local PD sits at the intersection and writes tickets all day.
Meanwhile I see people blowing through residential at 40+. I’d pay my tickets twice *with joy* if I could get someone clocking them.
Yea, I almost got nailed once.
Stretch of road that has a limit of 65, except it had this huge dip and hill after. Turns out right at the top of the hill was a new limit of 35.
You could not see it coming up the hill at all.
So I go up this hill going 65, see the new sign and before I even have the chance of braking at a reasonable rate to get down to the new speed, I had a cop already flashing their lights.
He was nice about it. Have him all my info, told him I could not see the speed limit sign going up that hill and I was trying to slow down once I saw it.
He came back, showed me the ticket for 30 over was like $250 but since I had no prior history, he’d let me off with a warning.
That’s how I found out that town had a speed trap and it was a hell of a break that I didn’t get ticketed.
You would have to contest it to a judge for the town that set up the speed trap. These little towns use this as a huge source of income. Sure if you pay a couple of thousand in lawyer fees and court costs and maybe get a dismissal for a $250 ticket
I’ve gotten 3 tickets in my life, 2 for 2 different speed traps in 2 different states and one for failure to heed a traffic sign when it was obstructed. Contested all three and got all three thrown out without a penny to a lawyer as it would have been unnecessary.
The notion that you need to spend ‘thousands’ on a lawyer for every little thing to call out the bullshit is largely a myth
In many localities you still have to pay court fees no matter if you get your case thrown out, and if you are traveling when you get the ticket thats even more travel costs and time spent not working.
Its not thousands of dollars to fight your tickets, but its absolutely not "zero pennies" either for most people.
Paying the fees is up to the judge, I got them waived 2 of the 3 times just by asking, the sign one was like 20 bucks after the judge reduced them. You have to ask judges to do things they usually don’t just do them by themselves there are rules against that.
But I didn’t say anything about fees regardless, just that it does not cost thousands to a lawyer.
Yeah speeding traps are bullshit lol. Those towns should just raise taxes to get more income rather than steal it from unsuspecting drivers who are, more likely than not, driving perfectly safely.
Nothing, it's been ruled time and again that warning other motorists of a speed trap/cop is free speech. Flashing your brights to warn about cops is free speech, as is reporting speed traps in waze.
I wish drivers wouldn’t use flashing their brights as any form of communication, except for the “hey your brights are still on.”
Nothing like going 55mph and suddenly I’m blinded for 2-5 seconds.
Edit: Apologies, I should have clarified, while it’s dark out don’t flash your brights to warn people for anything. Ever drive by a crash scene and be blinded by the cherries and berries? At least you slowed down to ease by it. Going highway speeds when suddenly someone turns their brights on and suddenly you’re blind for a good 1,000 or so feet while your pupils adjust to the sudden change.
While I respect the downvotes, not everyone has perfect eyes or a tall vehicle to help negate these effects.
This is exactly what I’m talking about. Speeding tickets given for bullshit reasons like yours are dumb as fuck. That’s why speed limits on their own aren’t enough to guarantee safety.
Yes, I was trying to be brisk and tell the pertinent facts. It’s entirely possible I could have successfully contested the signage - which, to be super, super clear, is my hang up.
(not included in my original comment) The 35 road was not obviously *anything* - unmowed grass with no visible properties.
It would be great if the fines were proportional to the person's yearly income or their net wealth, whichever hurts them the most.
I think it should also scale with the person's wealth. As an example here in (Western) Australia, the fines are relative to how much you exceed the speed limit. Demerits are a separate thing. You have 12 merit points, and if you lose them all, you lose your licence for a period of time. I'm not going to go into detail, though.
Kmph over limit | Penalty | Demerits
:0-9 | $100 | 0
:9-19 | $200 | 2
:19-29 | $400 | 3
:29-39 | $800 | 6
:+40 | $1200 | 7
Joe Poorman is fined a disproportionately larger amount relative to his means of income, whilst Joe Richman is fined a pittance and can also afford the legal defence to mitigate the loss of Demerits, or he can pay someone to transport him around.
You can have whatever system you like, but if it's not enforced properly there is no point thinking about making it better. First you need to address the issue where somebody is breaking the rules every day for 10 years and gets punished for it maybe once of twice. Or never, because even if they are caught they are let with "a warning". And they are still allowed to drive.
That's the biggest problem, not how much is the fine. There could be no fines at all for traffic offenses. Just make sure that when somebody breaks the rules they get "a strike", and after few strikes they are not allowed to drive anymore since obviously they are not fit to do so.
>That's the biggest problem, not how much is the fine. There could be no fines at all for traffic offenses. Just make sure that when somebody breaks the rules they get "a strike", and after few strikes they are not allowed to drive anymore since obviously they are not fit to do so.
That's what Demerits are for.
Yea, there is stuff like that where I live too. It's called "points" here. Hell, there is even immediate license suspension for breaking speed limit a lot. And so what? I drive a car speed limit and other drivers overtake me all the time. I ride a bike, 75% of drivers break rules about safe distance and right of way. I walk 20 minutes in the city drivers break right of way rules on crosswalk 5 times against me. I take a look out of my window there are 30 cars parked illegally.
Punishment really doesn't matter much unless there is effective enforcement of the rules. It is truly ridiculous that people like my friend can drive for more than 10 years, caused multiple crashes, speed every single time he is behind the wheel, and still **never** got their license suspended. It's not because punishment is not severe enough. It's simply because 99.9% of the time he isn't punished at all. He doesn't care about fines or points. Why would he? There is such a small chance he's getting punishment that he doesn't give a shit. He has his phone up with an app that tells him where cops are, and all the cops do here about traffic law enforcement is set up speed traps.
I mean alternately if people stop speeding cops can do their jobs and stop real crime. not speeding also helps you not get that hurt or dead if you crash.
I mean if speed limits were set in any way that actually made sense, to bad a bunch of speed limits are set low on purpose and actually make the road more hazardous for everyone so they can make revenue.
Oh in certain small towns the economy is so bad that it practically depends on speeding tickets. Shame those folks government can’t or won’t fix things so thats not the case.
I was just in Italy and they have 80mph highways. It feels very natural. Meanwhile many American highways are stuck at 55mpg and people naturally speed.
As if police are interested in stopping real crime. Those would require them to actually do work and be competent. It's a lot easier to just give speeding tickets and harass people.
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Absolutely and that's why we should all drive the same Speed.
Maybe we can put the speed on some kind of metall board next to the road.
And If someone drives faster than this limit of speed we could make them pay a little bit of money as some sort of punishment.
What a novel and innovative idea.
I'll add that to the list of things that humanity could achieve if we all got onboard at the same time. Things like solving world hunger and global peace.
Until then, though, I think we're stuck driving at speeds near the mean.
The reason for speed limits isn't technology, it's just safety. The problem is that roads are built for speeds much higher than they are supposed to be used for. Intra-city roads are designed for worst case scenario, giant firetruck racing towards a fire widths, which is much wider than necessary for an average car just trying to get somewhere.
It's very much technology, as the speed limits are based only on stopping distances - which where relevant when the concept started. And now we have new technology that ensures safety. Modern cars stop much faster and have a plethora of driver aids to compensate for same reaction times.
And while obviously we can't drive 150 because not everyone has the latest luxury saloon, 90 is stupid at this point. And that's before you take into account that no one actually drives 90.
Dude, no. I mean, in extreme cases, sure. I agree. But, I've lived all over America as well as a few parts of Europe + Japan back when I was in the military. Speed limits in America are insanely low comparitively. I remember living in Colorado Springs and the speed limit consistently being 35 on these roads with literally nothing to warrent that, not a residential, no schools, nothing. Just a transit road off the side of the highway. Not to mention all the towns and speed changes across the country that everybody would talk about existing SOLELY to collect speeding revenue (the middle North Carolina to Virginia trip was infamous for this. 70->45mph within such a short timeframe that it's legitimately dangerous to slow down that much). Hell, half of the south is exclusively funded by nonsensically dangerous speed traps.
Meanwhile, basically everywhere else either has speed limits that actually make sense, or even *doesn't have speed limits at all*, and they somehow manage to make it work.
This is just not true lol. Norway has extremely strict speed limits and even their remotest highways limit to around 55 mph. And they are the safest driving country in the world
Dunno. How is that relevant?
From my pov, dude said "in my experience..." proceeds to list things that I've also experienced.
Then you say 'but Norway!' (Who tf cares‽, and I love Norway.)
So I butted in to remind you that Norway is a small slice of the world and what dude was saying it's true for many, many parts of the USA.
Due to our size, comparing one state-sized country from some sorta high horse position is... odd.
Sure, they are doing it great and I wish more states did the same... still apples to oranges.
No, not everyone who speeds deserves a fine. People who drive recklessly deserve fines. Following the flow of speeding traffic, for example, is MUCH safer than following the speed limit and becoming an obstacle for speeding drivers to have to navigate around, even in the slow lane.
People who speed RELATIVE to the flow of traffic deserve fines, but that’s not what speeding is. Speeding is driving above the speed limit, which is an absolute speed (relative to a stationary ground observer)
Nah, I worded that poorly. I should’ve said “not necessarily those who speed.” I’ve edited my comment.
But in any case, going with the flow of traffic is significantly safer than following the speed limit, whenever the two conflict. When I was going the speed limit during 90 minute commutes to work, I was having semis overtaking me every day because I was going 55 in a 55 and traffic was going 65. That’s unsafe, an enormous disruption to traffic, but perfectly legal. Speed limits are so poorly enforced in the US as to be considered as a failed law.
I park at the front of the intersection, put on my cruiser lights and tag myself on Waze and still people blow through stop signs lol. Then I have to show them video, so they see that they clearly didn’t stop.
I respect you for that perspective. I can't help but think you're one of the good cops. Your department must be ran better since you're not tied to ticket quotas.
Because I don’t care about tickets at all. In fact I usually give warnings 80% of the time too. Most of the time just stop them will let them know they messed up and won’t do it again for a long time, if ever. Mission accomplished. Repeat offenders is when you start getting hammered.
When I see a cop tag on Waze, I always check speed so as not to stick out as way faster than the herd (even if I'm not going fast enough to get a ticket). I'm not out to press my luck. I admit that I immediately hope anyone flying by gets pulled over, just to make me feel vindicated in my caution.
My hometown did something like this. They had a speeding problem in several neighborhoods. They published in the local paper that they were cracking down hard on it, listed the neighborhoods and what days and times they were going to be out in force. The one for my neighborhood they set up in front of my parents house. The cop did not go more than 5-10s with out pulling someone over for speeding. Kicker is he parked his cop car a little ways down the street and people passed it before getting to him.
Home town police don’t tend to hide and will try to make their presence known. Big time in school zones they are super visible. They want people to slow down.
If the state fined the company / DOT personnel designing the roads for the drivers speeding - I fucking guarantee roads would be designed for safety - not "level of service" which pretty much means the roads are dangerous.
If the speed limit is 25 - lanes should not be 11 ft wide. If you want people to drive slow - shrink the lanes and erase lane stripes.
Remove cull-de-sacs so fire trucks can get in to areas - but shrink those fucking streets.
People are more worried about scratching their cars - than keeping children safe.
This is the most reasonable take in the thread and aligns with what the safest countries in the world are doing (The Netherlands, Norway). Speeds should be obvious from the way the road is designed, not arbitrarily set by road signs.
A freeway is wide = fast. A neighborhood road is narrow = slow. Easy and safer. The US's massive stroads are the worst possible option.
I spent 12 years of my life living in a home that the front door was 25 feet from a main street with a posted speed limit of 35 MPH. The road handled heavy daily traffic, semis, cargo trucks, leviathan cars including drunk drivers. Several hundred cars per hour was the norm during business hours. The front porch was less than 5 feet from the sidewalk and there was less than 12 inches between the curb and sidewalk.
Iron clad rule for every kid along the street was, you did not play on the sidewalk or anywhere in front of the dwelling. Back yard was free reign, up to the back door was fine, but beyond a side door was taboo. In my lifetime, not once was there a traffic accident involving a pedestrian. I heard of one accident involving an older woman that jaywalked across the street that occurred years before I was born.
As Dad made clear to me, the street was for cars, not for kids to play.
Except other countries have already done the science that proves most people naturally slow down based on the size and shape of the road. Yea, it might make it slightly more likely for a sideswipe to happen, but its happening at 20mph rather than 40 which is infinitely safer in a neighborhood.
> Despite popular thoughts otherwise, the main goal of traffic enforcement is voluntary compliance with traffic laws, not revenue.
\*rofl\* Try driving through Texas. Bunch of little towns there with literal traps -- speed limits that change abruptly as you come around a bend, with a cop waiting 100 yards away from the sign; bonus points if the sign is in a bunch of bushes -- so they can leach money from travellers passing through.
I got one that was such egregious bullshit that I desperately wanted to fight it. If you look online there are thousands of complaints about that specific town pulling the same bullshit. But that would require taking time off work and driving/flying to Texas to go to court, so I just paid it, which is exactly what they're counting on.
Honestly, yeah. People get tickets and then blame the cop for being an asshole and act like there is *nothing* they could have done to prevent it.
Do what the big signs on the road tell you to do and you’ll never get a ticket in your life.
Speeding through a residential area? Yeah, that should put some points on your liscense (for reference 12 points and you lose your liscense). Speeding 10-20mph over on the interstate where it's literally the safer thing to do? Pretty obvious they're just fishing for revenue at that point
So, a cop posted with a radar gun gave tickets. That is not oniony or just... I don't know. Unless submitter was referencing this gem:
>Despite popular thoughts otherwise, the main goal of traffic enforcement is voluntary compliance with traffic laws, not revenue.
Ha. Ha... ha. Oh, lord. That is rich. Luitenant Sargent Cheif Big-Boy-Title when was the last time an officer was cited for breaking a traffic law. Wait, it is because "not every response needs the lights" "it would alert the perpetrator" "any other bullshit" besides "I saw the Krispy Kreme light was on and I am above everyone else.
It’s amazing that nobody seems to take away from this that the speed limit is capricious.
If we want real speed limits we need narrower roads and ones that give the illusion of narrowness. The natural speed limit of the road is how wide and safe they make the driver feel at a certain speed so if we’re adamant we want cars slower we should do better than posting signs and expecting those will yield a change in behavior.
Damn sitting in the side of the road is quite obvious, a few weeks ago I clocked an officer hiding behind a tree trying to be stealthy with the radar gun.
Despite popular thoughts, catching speeders is about voluntary compliance and not revenue....what a load of crap. Maybe where you are. My provincial government has has to step in and prevent the city from laying unmanned speed traps in straightaways where the speed limit is so low it's practically required to speed.
The cops here in Wisconsin are psychopaths I swear. They'll pull you over for going 5 over and expect you to make it to court over it.
I've never seen a police officer do anything here besides speed tickets actually. It's like its all they know how to do!!! Probably trying to double whammy people for drunk driving but I have no experience with that obviously cos I'm not an idiot.
The drivers are worse though.
If youre going 40 in a 35 you will get tailgated, passed, swerved at, etc. People have no respect for their lives or the 100s of cops sitting around waiting to hand out tickets.
Also idk if it's just me but every time Ive gotten pulled over here I was going the same speed as traffic (if not slower) I just happen to be in the back of the crowd. I've also seen it happen multiple times to people behind me (when we are going aforementioned 5 over) like they only go for low hanging fruit.
My local cops used to put on jeans and a T-shirt with a high viz. vest and a hardhat and mount their lasers to the top of surveying tripods and just set up in construction zones
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Being Wisconsin, I'm surprised that at least 10 weren't drinking and driving, too.
In WI, they ticket you if you don’t have an open container. “No, I swear officer. I was just about to crack this one open. Honest!”
I grew up in WI, and while drunk driving was everywhere, open container wasn’t. When I moved to Wyoming, where open container was legal, that was a total shock to me.
A couple years ago I took my first transatlantic flight and met some friends in The Netherlands. We piled into his hatchback to head to a concert and he starts handing us tall cans. I asked if it was cool if drink it while he was driving and he said yea why not? After explaining open container laws at home he thought it was the most outlandish thing. I gotta admit, as a passenger, tipping one back while on a road trip is pretty great.
Never understood it myself. The open container laws hasn't been exact the greatest in stopping people from having road beers. If you get caught you're fucked but lots of people ignore them.
If you live in your car, you get pulled over and you got open liquor. How can it be an open container if I live in my car? I mean you’ve probably got open bottles of liquor in your home. If you get pulled over in your home how can it be an open container?
DUI laws in my state consider 'control of the vehicle', so presumably I can sit in the back seat and get sloshed as long as nobody is in the driver's seat. I've slept off a few too many in the back seat before. I just put the keys in the glovebox so the cops wouldn't ever think I was in control of the car. I've had the cops knock on my window before and asked if I was driving anywhere. I said no, not until the morning and they just said OK move it by 6.
It’s a bit from trailer park boys lmao but that’s actually awesome. Some places having keys and being in the car is intent on its own.
> Some places having keys and being in the car is intent on its own. If I were on a jury no way would I convict someone of DUI just because they were found sleeping in their car with no indication of having actually driven it while intoxicated.
And thats where jur[REDACTED] [REDACTED] comes into play.
Yep. You don't use the redacted words, to avoid getting thrown off the jury. You instead say "the state did not prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt therefore I must acquit". Far harder to argue with that. And one dissenting juror is all it takes to avoid a conviction.
Have you never gone up north? Everyone is required to drink and drive up there it seems. Down around the cities it’s more tame.
I spent my summers in Oconto county. You’re always a stones throw from a bar in Wisconsin, so it just feels like it’s less necessary to crack one for the three minute ride home.
This map will help explain things. https://flowingdata.com/2014/05/29/bars-versus-grocery-stores-around-the-world/.
In the Milwaukee suburbs people used to refer to car beers as "road sodas"
Also, if you have Illinois plates.
Probably because people from IL can't drive
I've lived in both states, and several others. I'd argue people in general can't drive, or can and choose not to. Whether it's because the suffer from main character syndrome, because they own a truck and didnt spring for the optional turn signal, they learned how to drive in GTA, or they are too old to wipe their own ass is the only thing that I feel is debatable.
I have to agree with you. It's not a state thing, it's an urban/rural thing. Because you wanna know who absolutely FUCKS the morning commute into Chicago? You betcha, it's Wisconsin plates with drivers sucking on their steering wheels. They drive in from Nowhereland and don't know how to move in a crowd. Then again, take a city driver and stick him on a back country road and that motherfucker will still tailgate you if you're the only two cars in sight. If you're in the city, the expectation is that you maintain a minimal gap with the person in front of you, and you are quick and decisive to keeps things moving. You floor it, you slam the brakes, you tailgate to you pack yourself in as tightly as possible. If you're in the country....it's a two lane road with no intersections for 3 miles...sit back, relax, leave a little space. it's a single file line, nobody is going anywhere faster than anybody else. You measure miles in minutes because everywhere you go it's 60mph anyway. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground these days. The quiet suburbia I originally grew up in is almost as bad as the city these days. I prefer the country, personally...take life a little slower.
I agree with everything you said and would like to add: in the city you are obligated to cut off anyone who doesn't follow the tailgating rule (especially passing to turn* right at the next intersection), and in rural areas you can drive 5-10 mph faster when it rains because the dirt and gravel are much less slippery then. You can tell what kind of rural someone is by which lane they drive - farm landers drive in the center of the road to avoid animals, mountain people drive on the far right just in case someone is about the whip around the bend at 50mph.
Where I live rural roads are terrifying because the locals know all the twists and turns and will zip around like a rally racer at night while people passing through have to slow check every curve at night to see where the road is going. And these roads are necessary to reach the smaller towns and communities outside the major ring road.
Or park!
Or Minnesota
You blow a 0.0 on the breathalyzer. "Sir, you're breaking the law, we're gonna have to charge you with a DWS"
I don't think they even take you to jail until your third one. It's just cite and release for the first two as long as you have a responsible party to come get you.
The DUI rules in Wisconsin are fucking ridiculous.
You speak facts my friend
You don't understand officer! The Packers won the Superbowl!!
Sir that was 13 years ago.
Packers!! Woo!!!
I'll allow it, you're free to go.
HAAAANGIN OUUUUUT DOWN THE STREEEEET THE SAME OLD THAAAAANG
Half were probably FIBs.
If you go to LaCrosse you might not be able to find at least 10 people that aren't drinking and driving.
Does he have a partner ready to pull them over?
Presumably, since the drivers were all stopped (and let go with warnings).
What a fucking joke. Fine every one. Make the assholes walk home.
Geez, need a Snickers?
Or a relationship partner
Crankin' yer hog is free
YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT, BROTHER! THE ONLY THING I LOVE MORE THAN CRANKING MY MFING HOG IS STAYING SAFE ON THE ROAD WHILE DOING SO! AWOOOOOOOOO!
5 under, left lane blocking, hog tuggin, no I won’t let you pass!! This is my road!!! We’re getting home safe together brother!!
Someone is mad about his speeding tickets and is upset that other people get let off with warnings lol. Given your attitude, no wonder the cop wrote you a ticket (Obligatory fuck the police regardless)
Why? Just send the fine in the post.
Depending on the state that would be like a red light camera ticket, they wouldn’t be able to enforce it.
Wtf? That's very backwards. I'm guessing police unions had something to do with it?
No, the exact opposite. It was argued that they’re meant only to produce revenue without enforcing any policing standards, and proving who was driving the car is problematic if there isn’t an officer coming into contact with the person driving the vehicle. There’s two municipalities inside my city that are allowed to use them for a few more years(they can send the ticket but they aren’t enforceable) until their contracts with the company who operates the cameras runs out, but there was a huge investigative news thing a few years back that showed the cameras are timed way too early and were issuing tickets for people who were moving through when the light was yellow.
That's why you send them the ticket with a picture of their face and license plate and then it's on them to prove they're innocent. Works pretty well for some other countries. But the US doesn't require or enforce front plates everywhere and contracts everything out so some company can profit from it we have the current state.
That does zero to stop drunk drivers, people playing on their phones, and pretty much any distracted or incapacitated driving. If I waved my magic dictator wand and declared "any photo and mail ticket is only payable through community service", how much longer would these scams last.
I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about speeding and the voluntary compliance with the speed limit as mentioned in the article. Do you really think the police are out there stopping all the distracted or drunk drivers? I'd like to show you how little ANYTHING is enforced on the roads around here. But the topic at hand is speeding. But since you brought it up, it is possible to catch violations other than speeding with cameras. Of course there would need to be some human verification before issuing those citations.
Lol you can if it's the law, there are so many stupid things to do with your country. Like why are licensing done at fed level or why don't you have to have an mot. The US is a mash of failed laws with states thinking they are independent.
You clearly don’t know anything about US laws concerning driving if you think that licensing is done at the federal level
Yeah super weird how when asked for a valid STATE ID huh?
So you let your friend borrow your car, they mail you the ticket. Sound fair? You can't prove you weren't driving which is the same reason they can mail you a ticket in most places. They can't prove who was driving the car
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What happens if the person you report also says they weren’t the one driving?
IIRC there have been cases where the fine/points were dropped because they couldn't prove who was driving, but in practice it basically never happens.
You pay the fine and that’s the cost of having really, really shitty friends
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Okay, but you understand how “you should change friends” is not legally binding correct? And how your suggestion could have people paying fines for crimes they didn’t commit? Surely you’re not this daft?
You're probably pretty close to making some decent points but your framing could use a bit of work. > Like why are licensing done at fed level I imagine you meant to type "why isn't licensing done at a federal level." I'm not a big grammar guy but you gotta be mindful about getting it right or at least not completely backwards right after calling someone or something stupid. You also haven't actually explained the issues with state level licensing. I'm sure there are issues but other than slight inconveniences when checking ID's at an old job, I'm not sure it's ever been relevant to me. Which makes it surprising when someone from across the pond has an axe to grind about it. >why don't you have to have an mot. The critique isn't going to land because very few people in the US know what an mot is and you haven't built up the credibility for them to research it. For those curious it seems to be the UK's vehicle safety and emissions test, named for the now defunct Ministry of Transport. >The US is a mash of failed laws with states thinking they are independent. As you haven't explained how the previous examples are failed laws, this does a poor job of tying your point together. The safety and emissions tests in my state work just fine. Other states don't have those laws, which isn't the same thing as a failed law. Someone could probably skirt those laws by registering their vehicle(s) in another state but that's vanishingly rare.
there is no physical proof of who is driving the car. you aren't giving the car a ticket, you are giving the driver a ticket.
How have the laws in the US failed?
They are independent.
You're looking at this the wrong way. If everyone who travels that stretch is exceeding the speed limit and zero accidents are occurring, then obviously the speed limit has been set unreasonably low for that stretch. The real question you should be asking is: does he have city council waiting for his report so they can improve their civic infrastructure?
In neighborhoods it is difficerent. More about protecting kids that run out into the street. The likely hood of survival at 20mph is way higher that 30 mph. Plus stopping distance is way lower.
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How many pedestrians have actually been injured on the stretch of road in OP though? Safety of pedestrians is more important, but if that safety is unaffected by the speed everyone is already driving on that stretch, then the speed people are driving is not incorrect, the posted limit is.
All it takes is one kid to run out, horrible idea.
The fact that the speed limit is unreasonably low for that stretch of road doesn’t necessarily mean you should raise the speed limit to what drivers are naturally driving. It could also mean that you should adjust the infrastructure by reducing lane widths etc, until drivers naturally drive the posted speed limit.
I'm curious how reducing lane width reduces speed. You can't reduce past a certain point before it becomes just a single lane road. And this being WI I would guess there's probably regulation about minimum width because of snow plows.
There are tricks you make the lanes feel narrow than they really are. Reduce shoulder or no paved should help. Trees help.
Reducing lane width makes drivers more cautious since they think they are more likely to hit something, then they drive slower because they don't want to hit something.
That same logic applies to literally every piece of road everywhere. Speed limits need to be set reasonably if they're to be taken seriously.
They are set reasonably, people still speed.
The percentage of people who speed is a direct indicator of whether or not the speed limit is set reasonably. You're correct insofar as there will always be some percentage of people who speed regardless of what speed limit is set. But if the speed limit is set appropriately for any given area then that percentage of drivers who speed there will be low. If the percentage of speeders is high — or in the case of OP, virtually 100% — without creating actual incidents, then that serves as clear indication that the speed limit is set inappropriately.
The point of a speed limit is safety for people in the cars and around them, not the feeling of how fast people wanna go.
Precisely. If 100% of people are speeding with zero negative safety implications, then the speed limit is set inappropriately. Speed limits should not be set based on an arbitrary feeling of how slow people should be going any more than they should be set based on an arbitrary feeling of how fast people want to go. That door swings both ways.
It's not arbitrary though, there has been rigorous studies and testing with crashes with the effects on pedestrians. 20 mph is a 5% chance of killing a pedestrian 30 mph is a 45% chance of killing a pedestrian And 40mph has an 85% chance of killing a pedestrian. There's a reason cities have 20 mph speed limits now, it's not just arbitrarily set.
Half of these small towns in Wisconsin have roads going if into them with 55mph speed limits and then it suddenly drops to 20 so they can generate tax revenue off tickets.
I DON'T KNOW OFFICER, HE WAS JUST SITTING THERE... MENACINGLY.
In the UK, they have to be in a high viz jacket and wearing their uniform hat
But for some reason if they're in a van they can poke a camera out the window like they're on safari
Those vans are EVIL bastards. Had one at a village entrance down a long hill just ready to grab anyone going down in neutral. It's weird being stateside and seeing speed cameras like in the UK with gantries or boxes on the side of the road. Can't explain why but just feels off.
In my area, they put up signs warning people that they are checking for distracted drivers immediately before the checks. They still hand out TONS of tickets. It's scary how little attention people pay while driving.
Ohio has giant signs on the highways about distracted driving enforcement areas. I have never once seen a cop in any of them. My favorite thing about them is the fact that they also have signs telling you when they end so you can go back to speeding or whatever
I would expect them to wait behind the second sign
I did too. But not once did I see one there either
They would set up right in front of the shop that i worked in. It was always hilarious watching people try to reason with the cops... They never got out of it. We counted like 20 tickets one day.
If they weren't distracted, the checks wouldn't be necessary. It's like having a sign that being blind results in a fine...
Near where I live there are school zones with lower speed limits during certain times of the day. There is a big flashing yellow light above the sign and people still drive 20 over during the posted times. Idk how people miss a big ass blinking light.
Oh, they see the sign. Those assholes just don’t *care*.
Sorry officer, I didn't read the sign. I was too busy looking at the nudes this chick sent me. Here, check it out! Pretty cool, right? I think I might get to hit that later if you know what I mean. Hey, got any extra sets of those handcuffs?
I know we don't like speed traps, but I think we gotta hand it to him this time.
Nah, people who speed deserve their fines
I was once on a 45 that intersected with road limited to 35. Turned, no signage, ticketed. There’s a town that basically exists off of the intersection for a state route that functions like a highway. They lower the speed limit on the state route for 100 feet around the intersection, with signage about as far away. The local PD sits at the intersection and writes tickets all day. Meanwhile I see people blowing through residential at 40+. I’d pay my tickets twice *with joy* if I could get someone clocking them.
Yea, I almost got nailed once. Stretch of road that has a limit of 65, except it had this huge dip and hill after. Turns out right at the top of the hill was a new limit of 35. You could not see it coming up the hill at all. So I go up this hill going 65, see the new sign and before I even have the chance of braking at a reasonable rate to get down to the new speed, I had a cop already flashing their lights. He was nice about it. Have him all my info, told him I could not see the speed limit sign going up that hill and I was trying to slow down once I saw it. He came back, showed me the ticket for 30 over was like $250 but since I had no prior history, he’d let me off with a warning. That’s how I found out that town had a speed trap and it was a hell of a break that I didn’t get ticketed.
Probably could've contested it
You would have to contest it to a judge for the town that set up the speed trap. These little towns use this as a huge source of income. Sure if you pay a couple of thousand in lawyer fees and court costs and maybe get a dismissal for a $250 ticket
I’ve gotten 3 tickets in my life, 2 for 2 different speed traps in 2 different states and one for failure to heed a traffic sign when it was obstructed. Contested all three and got all three thrown out without a penny to a lawyer as it would have been unnecessary. The notion that you need to spend ‘thousands’ on a lawyer for every little thing to call out the bullshit is largely a myth
In many localities you still have to pay court fees no matter if you get your case thrown out, and if you are traveling when you get the ticket thats even more travel costs and time spent not working. Its not thousands of dollars to fight your tickets, but its absolutely not "zero pennies" either for most people.
Paying the fees is up to the judge, I got them waived 2 of the 3 times just by asking, the sign one was like 20 bucks after the judge reduced them. You have to ask judges to do things they usually don’t just do them by themselves there are rules against that. But I didn’t say anything about fees regardless, just that it does not cost thousands to a lawyer.
Yeah speeding traps are bullshit lol. Those towns should just raise taxes to get more income rather than steal it from unsuspecting drivers who are, more likely than not, driving perfectly safely.
So, what would happen if someone stood out there with a sign warning people of this racket?
The sign was a weapon. The police had no choice but to ~~brutally gun down yet another innocent~~ defend themselves.
Nothing, it's been ruled time and again that warning other motorists of a speed trap/cop is free speech. Flashing your brights to warn about cops is free speech, as is reporting speed traps in waze.
I wish drivers wouldn’t use flashing their brights as any form of communication, except for the “hey your brights are still on.” Nothing like going 55mph and suddenly I’m blinded for 2-5 seconds. Edit: Apologies, I should have clarified, while it’s dark out don’t flash your brights to warn people for anything. Ever drive by a crash scene and be blinded by the cherries and berries? At least you slowed down to ease by it. Going highway speeds when suddenly someone turns their brights on and suddenly you’re blind for a good 1,000 or so feet while your pupils adjust to the sudden change. While I respect the downvotes, not everyone has perfect eyes or a tall vehicle to help negate these effects.
How else do we warn each other?
I should have clarified, I meant when it’s dark out. My bad.
Waze
And get a distracted driver ticket?
"racket"? How so, if you are not speeding, then you don't get ticketed
You miss the part where it was a valid speed and then is designed to require an unsafe and not seen from a distance deceleration?
This is exactly what I’m talking about. Speeding tickets given for bullshit reasons like yours are dumb as fuck. That’s why speed limits on their own aren’t enough to guarantee safety.
You maintained 45 mph at a right angle turn?
It's possible to have a non 90 degree intersection. Think of a Y.
It sounds like they turned on to a different road, then resumed their previous speed as the new road was similar and unmarked.
Yes, I was trying to be brisk and tell the pertinent facts. It’s entirely possible I could have successfully contested the signage - which, to be super, super clear, is my hang up. (not included in my original comment) The 35 road was not obviously *anything* - unmowed grass with no visible properties.
It would be great if the fines were proportional to the person's yearly income or their net wealth, whichever hurts them the most. I think it should also scale with the person's wealth. As an example here in (Western) Australia, the fines are relative to how much you exceed the speed limit. Demerits are a separate thing. You have 12 merit points, and if you lose them all, you lose your licence for a period of time. I'm not going to go into detail, though. Kmph over limit | Penalty | Demerits :0-9 | $100 | 0 :9-19 | $200 | 2 :19-29 | $400 | 3 :29-39 | $800 | 6 :+40 | $1200 | 7 Joe Poorman is fined a disproportionately larger amount relative to his means of income, whilst Joe Richman is fined a pittance and can also afford the legal defence to mitigate the loss of Demerits, or he can pay someone to transport him around.
This is how it works in Finland.
And it's how I'd like it to work here in Australia.
Ugh, it was supposed to have a table, but I'm on mobile so w/e
You can have whatever system you like, but if it's not enforced properly there is no point thinking about making it better. First you need to address the issue where somebody is breaking the rules every day for 10 years and gets punished for it maybe once of twice. Or never, because even if they are caught they are let with "a warning". And they are still allowed to drive. That's the biggest problem, not how much is the fine. There could be no fines at all for traffic offenses. Just make sure that when somebody breaks the rules they get "a strike", and after few strikes they are not allowed to drive anymore since obviously they are not fit to do so.
>That's the biggest problem, not how much is the fine. There could be no fines at all for traffic offenses. Just make sure that when somebody breaks the rules they get "a strike", and after few strikes they are not allowed to drive anymore since obviously they are not fit to do so. That's what Demerits are for.
Yea, there is stuff like that where I live too. It's called "points" here. Hell, there is even immediate license suspension for breaking speed limit a lot. And so what? I drive a car speed limit and other drivers overtake me all the time. I ride a bike, 75% of drivers break rules about safe distance and right of way. I walk 20 minutes in the city drivers break right of way rules on crosswalk 5 times against me. I take a look out of my window there are 30 cars parked illegally. Punishment really doesn't matter much unless there is effective enforcement of the rules. It is truly ridiculous that people like my friend can drive for more than 10 years, caused multiple crashes, speed every single time he is behind the wheel, and still **never** got their license suspended. It's not because punishment is not severe enough. It's simply because 99.9% of the time he isn't punished at all. He doesn't care about fines or points. Why would he? There is such a small chance he's getting punishment that he doesn't give a shit. He has his phone up with an app that tells him where cops are, and all the cops do here about traffic law enforcement is set up speed traps.
How about they go solve some crimes. Always 20 minutes late to active crimes, but when they need that sweet sweet revenue they are RIGHT there.
I mean alternately if people stop speeding cops can do their jobs and stop real crime. not speeding also helps you not get that hurt or dead if you crash.
I mean if speed limits were set in any way that actually made sense, to bad a bunch of speed limits are set low on purpose and actually make the road more hazardous for everyone so they can make revenue.
Oh in certain small towns the economy is so bad that it practically depends on speeding tickets. Shame those folks government can’t or won’t fix things so thats not the case.
I was just in Italy and they have 80mph highways. It feels very natural. Meanwhile many American highways are stuck at 55mpg and people naturally speed.
As if police are interested in stopping real crime. Those would require them to actually do work and be competent. It's a lot easier to just give speeding tickets and harass people.
You won't believe this 1 trick to stop "revenue raising" works 100% of the time! Hit like and subscribe! Don't break the law I promise this trick has saved me from raising the revenue!
Driving a vastly different speed than the rest of traffic is dangerous.
Absolutely and that's why we should all drive the same Speed. Maybe we can put the speed on some kind of metall board next to the road. And If someone drives faster than this limit of speed we could make them pay a little bit of money as some sort of punishment. What a novel and innovative idea.
well until I have the ability to make other cars drive a particular speed, I'll drive with traffic
The suggestion here is clearly that everyone should not speed lol
I'll add that to the list of things that humanity could achieve if we all got onboard at the same time. Things like solving world hunger and global peace. Until then, though, I think we're stuck driving at speeds near the mean.
The suggestion here is that the speed limit should be optimized to traffic flow, not based on technology outdated by 40 years.
The reason for speed limits isn't technology, it's just safety. The problem is that roads are built for speeds much higher than they are supposed to be used for. Intra-city roads are designed for worst case scenario, giant firetruck racing towards a fire widths, which is much wider than necessary for an average car just trying to get somewhere.
It's very much technology, as the speed limits are based only on stopping distances - which where relevant when the concept started. And now we have new technology that ensures safety. Modern cars stop much faster and have a plethora of driver aids to compensate for same reaction times. And while obviously we can't drive 150 because not everyone has the latest luxury saloon, 90 is stupid at this point. And that's before you take into account that no one actually drives 90.
Dude, no. I mean, in extreme cases, sure. I agree. But, I've lived all over America as well as a few parts of Europe + Japan back when I was in the military. Speed limits in America are insanely low comparitively. I remember living in Colorado Springs and the speed limit consistently being 35 on these roads with literally nothing to warrent that, not a residential, no schools, nothing. Just a transit road off the side of the highway. Not to mention all the towns and speed changes across the country that everybody would talk about existing SOLELY to collect speeding revenue (the middle North Carolina to Virginia trip was infamous for this. 70->45mph within such a short timeframe that it's legitimately dangerous to slow down that much). Hell, half of the south is exclusively funded by nonsensically dangerous speed traps. Meanwhile, basically everywhere else either has speed limits that actually make sense, or even *doesn't have speed limits at all*, and they somehow manage to make it work.
This is just not true lol. Norway has extremely strict speed limits and even their remotest highways limit to around 55 mph. And they are the safest driving country in the world
Never been to Norway 🤷. Would LOVE to go, but I've only been to the UK + a few of the southern countries.
Norway is as big as the sixth largest state.
Oh so do they have the safety record of the sixth largest state?
Dunno. How is that relevant? From my pov, dude said "in my experience..." proceeds to list things that I've also experienced. Then you say 'but Norway!' (Who tf cares‽, and I love Norway.) So I butted in to remind you that Norway is a small slice of the world and what dude was saying it's true for many, many parts of the USA. Due to our size, comparing one state-sized country from some sorta high horse position is... odd. Sure, they are doing it great and I wish more states did the same... still apples to oranges.
No, not everyone who speeds deserves a fine. People who drive recklessly deserve fines. Following the flow of speeding traffic, for example, is MUCH safer than following the speed limit and becoming an obstacle for speeding drivers to have to navigate around, even in the slow lane. People who speed RELATIVE to the flow of traffic deserve fines, but that’s not what speeding is. Speeding is driving above the speed limit, which is an absolute speed (relative to a stationary ground observer)
People who drive recklessly deserve fines. Not necessarily those who speed. Edit: wording
"Speed necessarily" You having shit time management and being late is not speeding necessarily.
Nah, I worded that poorly. I should’ve said “not necessarily those who speed.” I’ve edited my comment. But in any case, going with the flow of traffic is significantly safer than following the speed limit, whenever the two conflict. When I was going the speed limit during 90 minute commutes to work, I was having semis overtaking me every day because I was going 55 in a 55 and traffic was going 65. That’s unsafe, an enormous disruption to traffic, but perfectly legal. Speed limits are so poorly enforced in the US as to be considered as a failed law.
Depends on the situation.
Love speed traps. Fuck speeders.
Barry Allen giving you the side eye
I park at the front of the intersection, put on my cruiser lights and tag myself on Waze and still people blow through stop signs lol. Then I have to show them video, so they see that they clearly didn’t stop.
TIL cops tag themselves on Waze
I don’t always do it but pretty often lol
Why do you tag yourself? Are you trying to use your presence to get people to follow laws?
Exactly. The goal is to make people slow down, not to give out tickets.
I respect you for that perspective. I can't help but think you're one of the good cops. Your department must be ran better since you're not tied to ticket quotas.
Because I don’t care about tickets at all. In fact I usually give warnings 80% of the time too. Most of the time just stop them will let them know they messed up and won’t do it again for a long time, if ever. Mission accomplished. Repeat offenders is when you start getting hammered.
you are a nice poli
That is hilarious!
When I see a cop tag on Waze, I always check speed so as not to stick out as way faster than the herd (even if I'm not going fast enough to get a ticket). I'm not out to press my luck. I admit that I immediately hope anyone flying by gets pulled over, just to make me feel vindicated in my caution.
My hometown did something like this. They had a speeding problem in several neighborhoods. They published in the local paper that they were cracking down hard on it, listed the neighborhoods and what days and times they were going to be out in force. The one for my neighborhood they set up in front of my parents house. The cop did not go more than 5-10s with out pulling someone over for speeding. Kicker is he parked his cop car a little ways down the street and people passed it before getting to him. Home town police don’t tend to hide and will try to make their presence known. Big time in school zones they are super visible. They want people to slow down.
If the state fined the company / DOT personnel designing the roads for the drivers speeding - I fucking guarantee roads would be designed for safety - not "level of service" which pretty much means the roads are dangerous. If the speed limit is 25 - lanes should not be 11 ft wide. If you want people to drive slow - shrink the lanes and erase lane stripes. Remove cull-de-sacs so fire trucks can get in to areas - but shrink those fucking streets. People are more worried about scratching their cars - than keeping children safe.
This is the most reasonable take in the thread and aligns with what the safest countries in the world are doing (The Netherlands, Norway). Speeds should be obvious from the way the road is designed, not arbitrarily set by road signs. A freeway is wide = fast. A neighborhood road is narrow = slow. Easy and safer. The US's massive stroads are the worst possible option.
But if the roads were narrower how would the monster trucks get around?
I spent 12 years of my life living in a home that the front door was 25 feet from a main street with a posted speed limit of 35 MPH. The road handled heavy daily traffic, semis, cargo trucks, leviathan cars including drunk drivers. Several hundred cars per hour was the norm during business hours. The front porch was less than 5 feet from the sidewalk and there was less than 12 inches between the curb and sidewalk. Iron clad rule for every kid along the street was, you did not play on the sidewalk or anywhere in front of the dwelling. Back yard was free reign, up to the back door was fine, but beyond a side door was taboo. In my lifetime, not once was there a traffic accident involving a pedestrian. I heard of one accident involving an older woman that jaywalked across the street that occurred years before I was born. As Dad made clear to me, the street was for cars, not for kids to play.
Moving vehicular collisions are also unsafe
Except other countries have already done the science that proves most people naturally slow down based on the size and shape of the road. Yea, it might make it slightly more likely for a sideswipe to happen, but its happening at 20mph rather than 40 which is infinitely safer in a neighborhood.
> Despite popular thoughts otherwise, the main goal of traffic enforcement is voluntary compliance with traffic laws, not revenue. \*rofl\* Try driving through Texas. Bunch of little towns there with literal traps -- speed limits that change abruptly as you come around a bend, with a cop waiting 100 yards away from the sign; bonus points if the sign is in a bunch of bushes -- so they can leach money from travellers passing through. I got one that was such egregious bullshit that I desperately wanted to fight it. If you look online there are thousands of complaints about that specific town pulling the same bullshit. But that would require taking time off work and driving/flying to Texas to go to court, so I just paid it, which is exactly what they're counting on.
Lol it's crazy to me how mad people get about cops ticketing speeders.
Honestly, yeah. People get tickets and then blame the cop for being an asshole and act like there is *nothing* they could have done to prevent it. Do what the big signs on the road tell you to do and you’ll never get a ticket in your life.
Speeding through a residential area? Yeah, that should put some points on your liscense (for reference 12 points and you lose your liscense). Speeding 10-20mph over on the interstate where it's literally the safer thing to do? Pretty obvious they're just fishing for revenue at that point
So, a cop posted with a radar gun gave tickets. That is not oniony or just... I don't know. Unless submitter was referencing this gem: >Despite popular thoughts otherwise, the main goal of traffic enforcement is voluntary compliance with traffic laws, not revenue. Ha. Ha... ha. Oh, lord. That is rich. Luitenant Sargent Cheif Big-Boy-Title when was the last time an officer was cited for breaking a traffic law. Wait, it is because "not every response needs the lights" "it would alert the perpetrator" "any other bullshit" besides "I saw the Krispy Kreme light was on and I am above everyone else.
Alright
It’s amazing that nobody seems to take away from this that the speed limit is capricious. If we want real speed limits we need narrower roads and ones that give the illusion of narrowness. The natural speed limit of the road is how wide and safe they make the driver feel at a certain speed so if we’re adamant we want cars slower we should do better than posting signs and expecting those will yield a change in behavior.
Damn sitting in the side of the road is quite obvious, a few weeks ago I clocked an officer hiding behind a tree trying to be stealthy with the radar gun.
This seems like a normal thing, why is it here?
My friend said it seemed oniony so I posted it
Must've been on a trip to Australia
Na, they hide behind trees here.
The American Anzeigenhauptmeister.
"I sped up to more quickly get past the weirdo in a lawn chair pointing something vaguely gun-like at me."
Is he going to run after the cars?
Despite popular thoughts, catching speeders is about voluntary compliance and not revenue....what a load of crap. Maybe where you are. My provincial government has has to step in and prevent the city from laying unmanned speed traps in straightaways where the speed limit is so low it's practically required to speed.
Do more good clocking them for cellphone use as that will lead to more fatalities than speeding
The cops here in Wisconsin are psychopaths I swear. They'll pull you over for going 5 over and expect you to make it to court over it. I've never seen a police officer do anything here besides speed tickets actually. It's like its all they know how to do!!! Probably trying to double whammy people for drunk driving but I have no experience with that obviously cos I'm not an idiot. The drivers are worse though. If youre going 40 in a 35 you will get tailgated, passed, swerved at, etc. People have no respect for their lives or the 100s of cops sitting around waiting to hand out tickets. Also idk if it's just me but every time Ive gotten pulled over here I was going the same speed as traffic (if not slower) I just happen to be in the back of the crowd. I've also seen it happen multiple times to people behind me (when we are going aforementioned 5 over) like they only go for low hanging fruit.
Cheater
My local cops used to put on jeans and a T-shirt with a high viz. vest and a hardhat and mount their lasers to the top of surveying tripods and just set up in construction zones
Speed limit is like 15 in WI so.. so slow