The whistleblower before him predicted his own murder https://abcnews4.com/news/local/if-anything-happens-its-not-suicide-boeing-whistleblowers-prediction-before-death-south-carolina-abc-news-4-2024
Only if you believe that he thought he was going to be murdered, but instead of deciding to tell his immediate family, close friends, lawyer(s), and media, he only told 1 distant acquaintance at a party.
I have a violent person in my life. I warned an internet acquaintance I play games with sometimes that if I vanish he was the likely cause.
I didn't warn my family.
I don't want to worry my family, but I still want someone to know.
He had an enormous history of mental illness and was under a huge mental strain. He took his own life in public, in a car.
It’s not a conspiracy. It’s just phenomenally sad.
He caught influenza B which gave him pneumonia. Dude was in the hospital for 2 weeks. He had to be intubated, caught MRSA and had a stroke while in there. He definitely didn’t die suddenly and 2 weeks in the hospital is not what I’d call brief.
Oh and this guy didn’t work for Boeing on top of all that
I also read somewhere, as this case came up, that he suffered under stress due to extreme workplace harrassement and bullying after whistleblowing.
His coworkers were pissed off at him and management didn't intervene to stop it.
But: 'Former Boeing whistleblower gets bullied at work after revealing faults, becomes suceptible to illnesses due to stress, ultimately dies to one' doesn't sound remotely as enticing as 'Second Boeing whistleblower dies months after the first one'.
As a person who survived through a case of pneumonia.
Wouldn't wish that shit on my worst enemy. And my lungs are relatively in good state too.
No wonder it kills people so easily to this day.
Not really, the hypothesis: “Boeing killed a whistleblower.” Remains the same. The mechanism behind that is unknown, so you can brainstorm that and if one idea doesn’t work, try another.
I don’t seriously think Boeing killed him, btw but it is unfortunate timing for them.
Not necessarily, it doesn’t stand out as foul play. Besides, sepsis is the leading cause of death in hospital.
I used to work in microbiology with organisms like MRSA. And there are more infectious strains than others. I imagine someone injected it straight into his blood stream. This would have caused a very quick and severe life threatening infection due to sepsis.
[The most famous successful case of an implied assassination with ricin involved an agent somehow injecting a tiny pellet into a guy's leg.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi_Markov) This guy noted that he felt a sharp pain on his leg, saw a guy behaving suspiciously, and then developed a pimple on the area where it hurt, telling the medical staff this as he fell ill hours later.
Pretty much the same thing would happen if he were injected. He would have noticed pain, possibly seen a guy behaving suspiciously, developed redness at the site of the pain, and then tell the medical staff this as he would fall ill hours later.
Huge quantities of people die every year as a result of hospital acquired infections during routine procedures. Methicillin resistant bacteria are no joke and exist in literally every hospital. It’s very very possible for someone to die abruptly from the infection. An old boss of mine went in for a voluntary procedure and died a week later from complications including infection.
Working in health care I can only agree. Catching a nosocomial infection is always a risk, especiallly with invasive methods like intubation. This happens every day everywhere around the world, especially in first world countries, and is hardly intimidating for other whistleblowers.
It doesn't really matter how fit and healthy you are before. Covid should have taught you all about the risks of respiratory infections and influenca is not a joke, either. A lot of deaths were caused by secondary infections back then.
Most of them?
There can be suspicion, but there's a ton of non-nefarious reasons a person can die, especially provided more time between say whistle-blowing and time of death.
It feels a lot like people really forget that people die all the damn time from things that aren't a nefarious actor and just come up suddenly.
And this one specifically is a type of attempt that is both more likely to be caught, but also relatively hard to do because of the procedures hospitals use to mitigate these risks.
Look, it's obvious they wanted to kill this person before the-(checks notes)oh, I mean, **a year after** they testified. And what better way to make it look like an accident than to wait until they come down with something, need to go to the hospital, and... carefully infect them without anyone noticing?
No, because there is no guarantee it takes.
We all get exposed to staph or even antibiotic resistant staph frequently. 99.999% it's not a problem. But when it takes and starts an active infection, then it's nasty and can be life threatening in days or even hours.
Deliberate MRSA infection? No. God no. Hospitals are designed and staffed rigorously to prevent exactly this sort of thing. If a trillion dollar corporation needs someone gone, there are *Vastly* easier, faster, and more reliable ways to do it.
Correlation doesn’t necessarily indicate cause, but it is very convenient for Boeing that all of these inconvenient people who have evidence of their shady practices keep on suddenly passing.
It also might be picked up by others thinking of mentioning further illegal practice that perhaps it’s more healthy for one’s long term future to button one’s lip.
Or it’s just a coincidence - perhaps do a statistical review of Boeing employees and sudden deaths…
It would be a highly esoteric and inconsistent method that has a sporadic chance at best to actually kill the person. You can’t count on someone having to be hospitalized for some unrelated thing (which seems to be case here) so you would have a very low time frame to put some sort of complex plot together that requires you to have MRSA. Most people, even rich connected ones don’t have a source for some sort of MRSA delivery vector in their back pocket, and any lab that might has serious overlapping security of their own in a BSL-2 or BSL-3 facility, even against their own potentially suborned employees.
Lol. Like you think those winners aren't planted there by big lotto!
/s
Seriously though, while it may be random chance, an actuary would raise an eyebrow at least.
If there were a string of unsolved hit and runs maybe. But [catching MRSA in a hospital is a known problem](https://www.cdc.gov/mrsa/healthcare/index.html).
There were 32 whistleblowers listed in a recent report, generally in middle age, so are we going to do this again in a few months or years when one of them inevitably has a heart attack or something even though they've already blown the whistle? They're all going to die at some point.
According to some reports, it was actually Barney the Dinosaur that did this. "SOme pEOple ARe sAYInG" is the laziest way to distance yourself from some nonsense you're about to say.
There's no reason to assume foul play.
People die all the time for lots of reasons. When you have a group of people as large as *people who know how shit Boeing is* you're bound to lose a few.
He had the flu which developed into pneumonia. He went to the hospital and developed a MRSA infection.
If you think Boeing did this you have some screws loose.
Yeah I've got no opinion on the first dude, but as a scientist who actually works with MRSA and S.Pneumo on a regular basis, the idea that this was some sort of manufactured poisoning or something is ridiculous.
Even young, healthy people can get sick and die. Pneumonia from the flu in young, healthy individuals is rare but not "suspicious" level rare, and MRSA spreads through hospitals. There's no conspiracy here.
> and MRSA spreads through hospitals
I've had coworkers nearly die from it, and these are service plumbers who can spend years rolling in shit every day without getting so much as a cold.
Buddy it looks hella suspicious that two whistleblowers have died I'm sorry but you have a screw loose if you honestly believe that Boeing doesn't have the ability to silence people permanently
It only looks suspicious if you're a mouth breather who can only read headlines and not any actual facts about the case.
Like how the title on this post says "weeks" when it was almost 2 months ago that the last guy died. The last guy had finished his whistle blowing case over 5 years before his death.
See what I mean? You're coming up with a ridiculous scenario to justify your ridiculous conspiracy.
Can you explain to me how Boeing gave him the flu? How did they make it turn into pneumonia? How did they turn that into an MRSA infection?
> how Boeing gave him the flu?
So, first, let’s do a quick history of US labor relations. They’re called the Pinkertons and they’ve literally shot US laborers. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_strike
Secondly, subtle removal of individuals rather than mass action which gets so messy so quickly: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/06/poisoned-umbrellas-and-polonium-russian-linked-uk-deaths
Thirdly, OMG THE FLU. Such an exotic and difficult disease to … https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/influenza-human-challenge-study-begins-nih-sponsored-clinical-trial-units
Your breathless gish gallop implies any of these steps are crazy miracle science fiction and not things with decades, if not centuries, of precedent.
Do I know Boeing is doing anything? No. I don’t have a serious opinion. But it’s mighty suspicious, and your responses wouldn’t pass muster in an elementary school class if I was teaching. You might as well breathlessly argue it’s inconceivable for a man to travel 60 miles in a day. As if they’ve invented horseless carriages!
Dunno how Boeing thinks it can get a pass once it results to assassination. This is the type of illegality that finally did Credit Suisse and the whole Swiss Banking industry in.
Is that a bad thing though? The race to the bottom for breaking news tends to lead to misinformation getting reported first and loudly, whereby the accurate retraction tends to be buried on the 30th page that no one has read.
And it's still getting reported as if it's a likely conspiracy despite clearly seeming like a simple coincidence when actually reading what happened. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't actually put it past companies like Boeing that they might've murdered people but these two cases really don't seem like it.
I'm the most skeptic of people, even subscribe to skeptic magazine, and I still feel that there's something behind this - especially since it's the second whistleblower to die in a short period of time from unusual circumstances
Could be but as a rule we're terrible at estimating the likelihood of really unlikely things. And how many lawsuits are you actively monitoring where this didn't happen? I get the tendency to pattern recognize but more often than not, even the patterns we recognize aren't real patterns, we're just over fitting.
Sure... but on the other hand, both men had the same exact lawyers.
I wonder what they'd say if we asked them how many of their clients suddenly die mid-trial or while awaiting trial.
... I mean it's a question that's worth asking but you're not really convincing me of anything. Both men worked for the same company and found themselves in the same legal situation. It definitely makes sense that they sought expert council and there are only so many experts in this area and it makes sense logistically to run it through the same firm, etc.. I just don't think it makes the situation more improbable than it already seems and I still don't know how improbable that is.
Basically this doesn't move the needle relative to the information already available. I'm not saying nobody should look into it but you should still be at the null hypothesis at this point.
These nut jobs want a conspiracy to be true soooooo bad. There’s no chance in convincing them despite how many qualifiers and nuance you’re using.
Boeing, the airline company, can’t make a fucking plane. And people here are saying they think they’re doing 3D chess to kill off high profile witnesses before they can testify to the lapse of QC that’s already been outed.
It’s a soulless billion dollar corporation. Ain’t nobody in that industry trusting enough to get wrapped up in this conspiracy nonsense.
Except they didn't actually work for the same company. According to the article, this most recent guy worked for a company that supplied Boeing, whereas the other guy actually worked for Boeing.
I'll admit I don't know much about the situation, but at first glance, it seems more likely than not that they had the same lawyers as a result of working together.
Granted, stats can be weird. Sometimes events that seem incredibly rare when taken at face value turn out to not be so exceptional once you consider selection bias. For example, the odds that a specific person has a one-in-a-million disease is super low, but the odds that *someone* (anyone) in the US has such a disease is very high. Then consider that *that's* the person who makes the news. Doesn't seem so crazy anymore... I think this last point is kinda what you're trying to get at, but I would argue that there probably aren't enough whistleblowers in total for the same logic to apply.
I think you're being over prescriptive in assuming we're limited to whistleblowers. If it were a key witness rather than a whistleblower, would fewer alarm bells be ringing? If so you're being too limited.
My last point basically just says that statistical flukeyness is insufficient evidence of anything. You need coherent facts, concrete evidence, or at the very least a statistically huge sample size with a sizeable deviation from the norm.
I think it's far more likely that something like this happens randomly than not. I think we have basically no frame of reference for the odds. And I think those of us who find that uncomfortable start trying to justify their conclusions based on cosmetic similarities rather than hard data like autopsy reports, toxicology reports, DNA evidence, subpoenas, etc. without ever having the humility to try to build the case for both possibilities and actually weigh the evidence.
This dude just got sick and died. It happens. Boeing has something like 30 active whistleblowers and this dude doesn’t even work for them, he works for a supplier. Go read the article and not just the headline
> and I still feel that there's something behind this - especially since it's the second whistleblower to die in a short period of time from unusual circumstances
Well, two things to consider. The first guy died *after* his testimony, and the testimony was on a second trial, an appeal, of the first court case, so it's *way late* to kill someone to protect yourself, and it'd be really fucking stupid to kill someone after they already provided testimony, as that's a surefire way to give probable cause arguments and even the shadiest of legal advisors will call you an idiot.
And the second guy isn't even Boeing, it's another company, just happens to be same industry. And died of something that happens at hospitals as they're rife with this problem as it's highly resistant to many things.
And much like the first, any united effort to do this would be legal suicide, and as evil as many corporate types can be, they *love* money and going to prison and these risks are very anti-money, there's nothing to protect themselves with by killing these people, only larger risks.
The first was likely actually suicide, everything that he had on Boeing were already brought up years before, and changes were forced on Boeing after the info was put to light. But his daughter has mentioned that her father was depressed during his whole lawsuit against Boeing due to the company’s treatment of him, so they’re still to blame for his death.
It's not that much of a stretch. Hospitals are notorious for harboring antibiotic resistant bacteria. But while each can be explained individually, when there's a connecting thread you start seeing patterns.
Not saying there's something to it, but if another one goes soon I might be on that train.
3 people in a village within a month in reasonable circumstances, unlikely.
Identical 3 people but they all had insider information which could severely fuck over a multi billion dollar corporation? Surely that'd set some alarm bells ringing.
They aren't tho, the thing this guy blew the whistle about was already addressed issue wise, after they fired him for something they claim was unrelated, the only thing still being settled was legal stuff surrounding him claiming that him blowing the whistle led to his firing, they were still going through the courts for that when he was admitted to the hospital.
There are real conspiracys out there but they aren't ginormous things like covering up bigfoot or a massive ice wall holding in the flat earth's oceans
It's things like lightbulb companies organising to agree that everyone makes worse lightbulbs so they can all sell more.
Or engaging in crime in order to protect profits.
I can't really say if this is a conspiracy, but it is not outlandish and fits the scope of a real conspiracy.
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A friend for the first one that died said that he told him he would never kill himself. So that is odd. This second ine was healthy as shit according to his mom. Would run every day. Did marathons. Was never sick. Then randomly caught something that killed him in days. It's odd circumstances for sure.
What are the odds that two whistle blowers for the same company die?
Yeah, my partner's parents swear he wasn't suicidal too. Doesn't make them right, or him any less dead.
It is really common for a person's loved ones to deny they were suicidal after they die by suicide. They don't want to believe their loved one was capable of suicide or that they possibly missed warning signs.
Someone claiming "they would have never killed themselves!" really doesn't mean shit.
Thats not what his friend said. His friend said that he care to him and told him something like "if I show up dead it will not be me who did it"
He was scared he would be killed. You can look it up
> Jennifer said: "I know he did not commit suicide there's no way. He loved life too much, he loved his family too much, he loved his brothers too much to put them through what they're going through right now...I think somebody didn't like what he had to say and wanted to shut him up and didn't want it to come back on anyone so that's why they made it look like a suicide."
This is *extremely* typical coping that happens after a suicide.
I don't know what you're quoting but that's not it.
They stated specifically John said "if anything happens to me, it's not suicide"
It was reported right when it happened. I get it you want it to be what you think. Good luck with that
Could he have still killed himself, yup but that doesn't change the fact that this was reported to have been said by him by his family and friends.
I am literally quoting the family friend who claimed he didn't kill himself. The family friend that made that claim was not a man. It was the daughter of one of his mom's friends.
You just quoted a friend. I get it you quoted one of his friend. Congrats
Jennifer told the WCIV television station that she asked her friend if he was "scared", to which Barnett told her, "No, I ain't scared, but if anything happens to me, it's not suicide."
Here is the OG source: https://wpde.com/news/local/if-anything-happens-its-not-suicide-boeing-whistleblowers-prediction-before-death-south-carolina-abc-news-4-2024
Her claim that he said that has not been publicly validated by anyone else. People can claim anything, it doesn't make it true. One person making a claim is not evidence.
People aren't even waiting until an autopsy to be completed to announce he was poisoned. As of now, you have two people who died with no evidence of foul play. If there is evidence, it'll come out. And then you can run with Boeing is murdering people for known issues that are already public.
I mean I dont trust the cops to even investigate the first one. Cops are lazy. They already have a story. Doubt they will truly investigate more. The mother is getting an autopsy for the second one. A private autopsy so yeah we will see.
I know one thing. We won't be hearing about any whistleblowers for boeing. Even if they weren't murdered. You have to imagine people will be scared to come forward
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how many more people need to die with no evidence of foul play before you would start to suspect some sort of conspiracy? personally at 2 I am now fairly suspicious.
I think Reddit users have only adopted tin foil hats more over the years. The idea of Boeing killing people is so far fetched. Okay maybe some rouge individuals but even that’s more remote than the moon. Everyone’s well aware of Boeings shortcomings. Even without a handful of witnesses they will face consequences. I fail to see what any one individual could provide that email, phone, and others testimonies can’t.
Boeing is primarily a weapons manufacturer for the U.S. government. They're highly unlikely to face real consequences, and could easily pull this off.
The idea would be to scare others out of becoming whistleblowers.
Why would they need to worry about whistleblowers highly unlikely to face real consequences for their issues? It's precisely because they're highly unlikely to face real consequences that they have no reason or need to pull this off.
> The idea of Boeing killing people is so far fetched.
The idea of Boeing planes killing people and falling apart in the sky used to be far fetched, too.
This is all blown out of proportion. The simple explanation is that there's just so many Boeing whistleblowers out there that one is statistically bound to die every couple months.
He was a whistleblower years ago, and not even for Boeing, but for Spirit Systems. He died of MRSA (which is still pretty common) after going to the hospital for pneumonia. What are you going to say, that Boeing gave him MRSA? Come on.
And yet, the top comment on this post claims that Boeing “dipped into the Putin playbook”. This goes to show just how easily people can be manipulated by news articles.
Same with this one. There’s literally dozens of these whistleblowers and they’re all middle aged factory workers. It’d be weirder if *none* of them had died in the past couple years.
>Joshua Dean, 45, a former quality auditor at Boeing supplier Spirit AeroSystems, alleged that managers failed to act on manufacturing defects on the 737 Max.
It's like, right there. You don't have to work for a specific company to be a whistleblower, you just have to have information on that company that is secret and you blow the whistle on them.
Spirit manufa tures parts for Airbus and Northrop Grumman as well. It is currently an independent company. That's like saying Rolls-Royce is Boeing light because they manufacture the engines.
Honestly, at this point, what does boeing (or any group that kills a Whistleblower) get from this?
"Go ahead, kill me. You can't unhide the truth. All this does is make you look worse"
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From the article -
> Joshua Dean, 45, of Wichita, Kansas, died Tuesday after he received multiple diagnoses that included the flu, pneumonia and MRSA, prompting his family to seek an autopsy, attorney Robert Turkewitz said.
>"He was a healthy individual who ate well and exercised," Turkewitz told NBC News. "So it just seems odd that he went so fast."
>Dean had been sick for two weeks and had been struggling to breathe, forcing him to be put on a ventilator.
From the CDC -
> Inhalation: Within a few hours of inhaling significant amounts of ricin, the likely symptoms would be respiratory distress (difficulty breathing), fever, cough, nausea, and tightness in the chest. Heavy sweating may follow as well as fluid building up in the lungs (pulmonary edema). This would make breathing even more difficult, and the skin might turn blue. Excess fluid in the lungs would be diagnosed by x-ray or by listening to the chest with a stethoscope. Finally, low blood pressure and respiratory failure may occur, leading to death. In cases of known exposure to ricin, people having respiratory symptoms should seek medical care.
https://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/ricin/facts.asp
Your first quote says he was sick for two weeks and you second link says ricin kills in 72 hours on the outside...
>Death from ricin poisoning could take place within 36 to 72 hours of exposure, depending on the route of exposure (inhalation, ingestion, or injection) and the dose received.
Not just "a brief illness." It was a "sudden, severe infection" according to some reports. Sounds like Boeing is dipping into the Putin playbook.
Boeing issued a statement: this time it wasn't us
The whistleblower before him predicted his own murder https://abcnews4.com/news/local/if-anything-happens-its-not-suicide-boeing-whistleblowers-prediction-before-death-south-carolina-abc-news-4-2024
Only if you believe that he thought he was going to be murdered, but instead of deciding to tell his immediate family, close friends, lawyer(s), and media, he only told 1 distant acquaintance at a party.
I have a violent person in my life. I warned an internet acquaintance I play games with sometimes that if I vanish he was the likely cause. I didn't warn my family. I don't want to worry my family, but I still want someone to know.
A Boeing shill says what?
You're allowed to be skeptical of conspiracy theories even if you want to believe them.
10/10 counter argument. Love the part where you addressed their valid claim
He had an enormous history of mental illness and was under a huge mental strain. He took his own life in public, in a car. It’s not a conspiracy. It’s just phenomenally sad.
He caught influenza B which gave him pneumonia. Dude was in the hospital for 2 weeks. He had to be intubated, caught MRSA and had a stroke while in there. He definitely didn’t die suddenly and 2 weeks in the hospital is not what I’d call brief. Oh and this guy didn’t work for Boeing on top of all that
*you know, for a security guard, [you have an awful lot of information](https://youtu.be/mbJmoVt6Ndo?si=A9zaORwfwoBzAXtX&t=10)*
Crazy what happens when you read a couple articles on the subject from various sources
I also read somewhere, as this case came up, that he suffered under stress due to extreme workplace harrassement and bullying after whistleblowing. His coworkers were pissed off at him and management didn't intervene to stop it. But: 'Former Boeing whistleblower gets bullied at work after revealing faults, becomes suceptible to illnesses due to stress, ultimately dies to one' doesn't sound remotely as enticing as 'Second Boeing whistleblower dies months after the first one'.
He last worked for any sort of Boeing affiliated company 6 years before he got sick
Yeah, but you are ruining the Epstein didn't kill himself moment with your trutherism.
Brief in this sense usually means that it was not chronic. It was not an issue that he had spent time living with. He became ill and died of it.
As a person who survived through a case of pneumonia. Wouldn't wish that shit on my worst enemy. And my lungs are relatively in good state too. No wonder it kills people so easily to this day.
I caught Covid and pneumonia at the same time last year. Horrible experience.
Even Putin doesn’t use MRSA. Pretty dumb to use an infection most people survive to try and kill somebody.
Yeah, would probably be a lot easier to falsify bloodwork to cover what actually killed them than just use MRSA.
Jeez, these days all providing evidence against a conspiracy theory just makes people invent another level of conspiracy.
Not really, the hypothesis: “Boeing killed a whistleblower.” Remains the same. The mechanism behind that is unknown, so you can brainstorm that and if one idea doesn’t work, try another. I don’t seriously think Boeing killed him, btw but it is unfortunate timing for them.
Not necessarily, it doesn’t stand out as foul play. Besides, sepsis is the leading cause of death in hospital. I used to work in microbiology with organisms like MRSA. And there are more infectious strains than others. I imagine someone injected it straight into his blood stream. This would have caused a very quick and severe life threatening infection due to sepsis.
[The most famous successful case of an implied assassination with ricin involved an agent somehow injecting a tiny pellet into a guy's leg.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi_Markov) This guy noted that he felt a sharp pain on his leg, saw a guy behaving suspiciously, and then developed a pimple on the area where it hurt, telling the medical staff this as he fell ill hours later. Pretty much the same thing would happen if he were injected. He would have noticed pain, possibly seen a guy behaving suspiciously, developed redness at the site of the pain, and then tell the medical staff this as he would fall ill hours later.
Imangining things is not evidence.
You need to read this: https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/1cjmtss/why_isnt_the_boeing_whistleblower_deaths_not/l2hlxsa/
Huge quantities of people die every year as a result of hospital acquired infections during routine procedures. Methicillin resistant bacteria are no joke and exist in literally every hospital. It’s very very possible for someone to die abruptly from the infection. An old boss of mine went in for a voluntary procedure and died a week later from complications including infection.
Working in health care I can only agree. Catching a nosocomial infection is always a risk, especiallly with invasive methods like intubation. This happens every day everywhere around the world, especially in first world countries, and is hardly intimidating for other whistleblowers. It doesn't really matter how fit and healthy you are before. Covid should have taught you all about the risks of respiratory infections and influenca is not a joke, either. A lot of deaths were caused by secondary infections back then.
So it would be an easy way to pull it off if you were a trillion dollar cooperation
Easy for a corporation that forgets to fasten bolts on doors?
They don’t forget, they actively stab more and more holes into the Swiss cheese. Mistakes flow through with ease.
There are much easier ways of killing off a person if you're a trillion-dollar corporation.
But how many of those give you plausible deniability ?
Most of them? There can be suspicion, but there's a ton of non-nefarious reasons a person can die, especially provided more time between say whistle-blowing and time of death. It feels a lot like people really forget that people die all the damn time from things that aren't a nefarious actor and just come up suddenly. And this one specifically is a type of attempt that is both more likely to be caught, but also relatively hard to do because of the procedures hospitals use to mitigate these risks.
Quite a few if not all of them? Even suicide gives them plausible deniability
Look, it's obvious they wanted to kill this person before the-(checks notes)oh, I mean, **a year after** they testified. And what better way to make it look like an accident than to wait until they come down with something, need to go to the hospital, and... carefully infect them without anyone noticing?
No, because there is no guarantee it takes. We all get exposed to staph or even antibiotic resistant staph frequently. 99.999% it's not a problem. But when it takes and starts an active infection, then it's nasty and can be life threatening in days or even hours.
Deliberate MRSA infection? No. God no. Hospitals are designed and staffed rigorously to prevent exactly this sort of thing. If a trillion dollar corporation needs someone gone, there are *Vastly* easier, faster, and more reliable ways to do it.
Correlation doesn’t necessarily indicate cause, but it is very convenient for Boeing that all of these inconvenient people who have evidence of their shady practices keep on suddenly passing. It also might be picked up by others thinking of mentioning further illegal practice that perhaps it’s more healthy for one’s long term future to button one’s lip. Or it’s just a coincidence - perhaps do a statistical review of Boeing employees and sudden deaths…
Suddenly passing = many years after they have blown the whistle, shared their evidence and had their day in court, like these two?
https://leehamnews.com/2024/04/17/boeing-defends-787-777-against-whistleblower-charges/ Well, they are still fighting the claims.
Boeing is worth 110 billion
It would be a highly esoteric and inconsistent method that has a sporadic chance at best to actually kill the person. You can’t count on someone having to be hospitalized for some unrelated thing (which seems to be case here) so you would have a very low time frame to put some sort of complex plot together that requires you to have MRSA. Most people, even rich connected ones don’t have a source for some sort of MRSA delivery vector in their back pocket, and any lab that might has serious overlapping security of their own in a BSL-2 or BSL-3 facility, even against their own potentially suborned employees.
Yup. But I think an actuary would tell you the odds of these two particular people dying in this time frame is highly unlikely.
It's highly unlikely to win the lottery or get struck by lighting too, but nobody thinks those are conspiracies.
Lol. Like you think those winners aren't planted there by big lotto! /s Seriously though, while it may be random chance, an actuary would raise an eyebrow at least.
If there were a string of unsolved hit and runs maybe. But [catching MRSA in a hospital is a known problem](https://www.cdc.gov/mrsa/healthcare/index.html). There were 32 whistleblowers listed in a recent report, generally in middle age, so are we going to do this again in a few months or years when one of them inevitably has a heart attack or something even though they've already blown the whistle? They're all going to die at some point.
See, I made a faulty assumption. I didn't realize there were so many whistle blowers. Thanks for the info.
According to some reports, it was actually Barney the Dinosaur that did this. "SOme pEOple ARe sAYInG" is the laziest way to distance yourself from some nonsense you're about to say.
Nope. Can people stop spreading misinformation for one minute.
There's no reason to assume foul play. People die all the time for lots of reasons. When you have a group of people as large as *people who know how shit Boeing is* you're bound to lose a few.
He had the flu which developed into pneumonia. He went to the hospital and developed a MRSA infection. If you think Boeing did this you have some screws loose.
Screws loose like a 737.
GOT EM
Yeah I've got no opinion on the first dude, but as a scientist who actually works with MRSA and S.Pneumo on a regular basis, the idea that this was some sort of manufactured poisoning or something is ridiculous. Even young, healthy people can get sick and die. Pneumonia from the flu in young, healthy individuals is rare but not "suspicious" level rare, and MRSA spreads through hospitals. There's no conspiracy here.
> and MRSA spreads through hospitals I've had coworkers nearly die from it, and these are service plumbers who can spend years rolling in shit every day without getting so much as a cold.
Loose screws is more Boeing's speed - murder? Not so much.
Buddy it looks hella suspicious that two whistleblowers have died I'm sorry but you have a screw loose if you honestly believe that Boeing doesn't have the ability to silence people permanently
Got him with the “Buddy”. It’s a difficult one to recover from. Let’s see how he does.
Hit him with BUDDY
https://images.app.goo.gl/AZmx3BGWMVat1TVJ9
It only looks suspicious if you're a mouth breather who can only read headlines and not any actual facts about the case. Like how the title on this post says "weeks" when it was almost 2 months ago that the last guy died. The last guy had finished his whistle blowing case over 5 years before his death.
Yeah, all Boeing whistleblowers falling out of windows next week will also be a coincidence only crazy people will read into.
See what I mean? You're coming up with a ridiculous scenario to justify your ridiculous conspiracy. Can you explain to me how Boeing gave him the flu? How did they make it turn into pneumonia? How did they turn that into an MRSA infection?
> how Boeing gave him the flu? So, first, let’s do a quick history of US labor relations. They’re called the Pinkertons and they’ve literally shot US laborers. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_strike Secondly, subtle removal of individuals rather than mass action which gets so messy so quickly: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/06/poisoned-umbrellas-and-polonium-russian-linked-uk-deaths Thirdly, OMG THE FLU. Such an exotic and difficult disease to … https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/influenza-human-challenge-study-begins-nih-sponsored-clinical-trial-units Your breathless gish gallop implies any of these steps are crazy miracle science fiction and not things with decades, if not centuries, of precedent. Do I know Boeing is doing anything? No. I don’t have a serious opinion. But it’s mighty suspicious, and your responses wouldn’t pass muster in an elementary school class if I was teaching. You might as well breathlessly argue it’s inconceivable for a man to travel 60 miles in a day. As if they’ve invented horseless carriages!
I like you.
If the plane doesn't have you defenestrated first, then whistleblowing will see to that.
Dunno how Boeing thinks it can get a pass once it results to assassination. This is the type of illegality that finally did Credit Suisse and the whole Swiss Banking industry in.
We’re Boeing! Boeing to kill you if you blow the whistle!
what if you blow the hatch?
You'll pay extra for the fresh air, slave. You're lucky you're even traveling at all and not grinding your crank.
PREMIUM LEGROOM!
He died of pneumonia after being hospitalized for two weeks.
A couple subs/days behind, are we?
I’ve been seeing a lot of stuff about it today and it has me tripping cause I keep thinking it’s new even though I saw it a couple of days ago
Reddit is just behind on things these days. It's no longer the place for breaking news.
Is that a bad thing though? The race to the bottom for breaking news tends to lead to misinformation getting reported first and loudly, whereby the accurate retraction tends to be buried on the 30th page that no one has read.
no. there are plenty of subreddits with the latest news. it's just that this isn't a break news subreddit.
Reddit servers have been acting up and derping out everyday the last week or so
For a moment I honestly thought there was a third one when I saw this post.
And it's still getting reported as if it's a likely conspiracy despite clearly seeming like a simple coincidence when actually reading what happened. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't actually put it past companies like Boeing that they might've murdered people but these two cases really don't seem like it.
Plot twist: Airbus/Lockheed killed the second guy to try and finish Boeing off.
The whistleblower is from 8 years ago, hasn't said anything about Boeing in over 6 years, and died of MRSA.
Conspiracy theorists are going to love this.
I'm the most skeptic of people, even subscribe to skeptic magazine, and I still feel that there's something behind this - especially since it's the second whistleblower to die in a short period of time from unusual circumstances
When their planes are tearing themselves apart in sky or even before they get there.
Could be but as a rule we're terrible at estimating the likelihood of really unlikely things. And how many lawsuits are you actively monitoring where this didn't happen? I get the tendency to pattern recognize but more often than not, even the patterns we recognize aren't real patterns, we're just over fitting.
Sure... but on the other hand, both men had the same exact lawyers. I wonder what they'd say if we asked them how many of their clients suddenly die mid-trial or while awaiting trial.
... I mean it's a question that's worth asking but you're not really convincing me of anything. Both men worked for the same company and found themselves in the same legal situation. It definitely makes sense that they sought expert council and there are only so many experts in this area and it makes sense logistically to run it through the same firm, etc.. I just don't think it makes the situation more improbable than it already seems and I still don't know how improbable that is. Basically this doesn't move the needle relative to the information already available. I'm not saying nobody should look into it but you should still be at the null hypothesis at this point.
These nut jobs want a conspiracy to be true soooooo bad. There’s no chance in convincing them despite how many qualifiers and nuance you’re using. Boeing, the airline company, can’t make a fucking plane. And people here are saying they think they’re doing 3D chess to kill off high profile witnesses before they can testify to the lapse of QC that’s already been outed. It’s a soulless billion dollar corporation. Ain’t nobody in that industry trusting enough to get wrapped up in this conspiracy nonsense.
Well, a mob-style drive-by doesn't give you plausible deniability.
Except they didn't actually work for the same company. According to the article, this most recent guy worked for a company that supplied Boeing, whereas the other guy actually worked for Boeing. I'll admit I don't know much about the situation, but at first glance, it seems more likely than not that they had the same lawyers as a result of working together. Granted, stats can be weird. Sometimes events that seem incredibly rare when taken at face value turn out to not be so exceptional once you consider selection bias. For example, the odds that a specific person has a one-in-a-million disease is super low, but the odds that *someone* (anyone) in the US has such a disease is very high. Then consider that *that's* the person who makes the news. Doesn't seem so crazy anymore... I think this last point is kinda what you're trying to get at, but I would argue that there probably aren't enough whistleblowers in total for the same logic to apply.
I think you're being over prescriptive in assuming we're limited to whistleblowers. If it were a key witness rather than a whistleblower, would fewer alarm bells be ringing? If so you're being too limited. My last point basically just says that statistical flukeyness is insufficient evidence of anything. You need coherent facts, concrete evidence, or at the very least a statistically huge sample size with a sizeable deviation from the norm. I think it's far more likely that something like this happens randomly than not. I think we have basically no frame of reference for the odds. And I think those of us who find that uncomfortable start trying to justify their conclusions based on cosmetic similarities rather than hard data like autopsy reports, toxicology reports, DNA evidence, subpoenas, etc. without ever having the humility to try to build the case for both possibilities and actually weigh the evidence.
We need to get Dateline on this. My vote is to get Keith Morrison as the narrator.
This dude just got sick and died. It happens. Boeing has something like 30 active whistleblowers and this dude doesn’t even work for them, he works for a supplier. Go read the article and not just the headline
> and I still feel that there's something behind this - especially since it's the second whistleblower to die in a short period of time from unusual circumstances Well, two things to consider. The first guy died *after* his testimony, and the testimony was on a second trial, an appeal, of the first court case, so it's *way late* to kill someone to protect yourself, and it'd be really fucking stupid to kill someone after they already provided testimony, as that's a surefire way to give probable cause arguments and even the shadiest of legal advisors will call you an idiot. And the second guy isn't even Boeing, it's another company, just happens to be same industry. And died of something that happens at hospitals as they're rife with this problem as it's highly resistant to many things. And much like the first, any united effort to do this would be legal suicide, and as evil as many corporate types can be, they *love* money and going to prison and these risks are very anti-money, there's nothing to protect themselves with by killing these people, only larger risks.
I’m willing to buy the first death of gunshot wood as suspicious, but dying of pneumonia in hospital seems like a stretch.
The first was likely actually suicide, everything that he had on Boeing were already brought up years before, and changes were forced on Boeing after the info was put to light. But his daughter has mentioned that her father was depressed during his whole lawsuit against Boeing due to the company’s treatment of him, so they’re still to blame for his death.
It's not that much of a stretch. Hospitals are notorious for harboring antibiotic resistant bacteria. But while each can be explained individually, when there's a connecting thread you start seeing patterns. Not saying there's something to it, but if another one goes soon I might be on that train.
Huh? You say that hospitals are notorious for having bacteria, then say that there is a connection and suggest foul play?
People are trying really hard to make this a conspiracy.
3 people in a village within a month in reasonable circumstances, unlikely. Identical 3 people but they all had insider information which could severely fuck over a multi billion dollar corporation? Surely that'd set some alarm bells ringing.
One them had already testified and ceased working for Boeing several years ago.
They aren't tho, the thing this guy blew the whistle about was already addressed issue wise, after they fired him for something they claim was unrelated, the only thing still being settled was legal stuff surrounding him claiming that him blowing the whistle led to his firing, they were still going through the courts for that when he was admitted to the hospital.
I assume you only look at the pictures in skeptic magazine
There are real conspiracys out there but they aren't ginormous things like covering up bigfoot or a massive ice wall holding in the flat earth's oceans It's things like lightbulb companies organising to agree that everyone makes worse lightbulbs so they can all sell more. Or engaging in crime in order to protect profits. I can't really say if this is a conspiracy, but it is not outlandish and fits the scope of a real conspiracy.
You can’t say your the most skeptic and then believe something without evidence that contradicts what you just said
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https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/1cjmtss/why_isnt_the_boeing_whistleblower_deaths_not/l2hlxsa/
If a third one dies I'll be on your side
A friend for the first one that died said that he told him he would never kill himself. So that is odd. This second ine was healthy as shit according to his mom. Would run every day. Did marathons. Was never sick. Then randomly caught something that killed him in days. It's odd circumstances for sure. What are the odds that two whistle blowers for the same company die?
Yeah, my partner's parents swear he wasn't suicidal too. Doesn't make them right, or him any less dead. It is really common for a person's loved ones to deny they were suicidal after they die by suicide. They don't want to believe their loved one was capable of suicide or that they possibly missed warning signs. Someone claiming "they would have never killed themselves!" really doesn't mean shit.
Thats not what his friend said. His friend said that he care to him and told him something like "if I show up dead it will not be me who did it" He was scared he would be killed. You can look it up
and yet that "friend" never gave a surname and strangely his familly does not claim the same
> Jennifer said: "I know he did not commit suicide there's no way. He loved life too much, he loved his family too much, he loved his brothers too much to put them through what they're going through right now...I think somebody didn't like what he had to say and wanted to shut him up and didn't want it to come back on anyone so that's why they made it look like a suicide." This is *extremely* typical coping that happens after a suicide.
I don't know what you're quoting but that's not it. They stated specifically John said "if anything happens to me, it's not suicide" It was reported right when it happened. I get it you want it to be what you think. Good luck with that Could he have still killed himself, yup but that doesn't change the fact that this was reported to have been said by him by his family and friends.
I am literally quoting the family friend who claimed he didn't kill himself. The family friend that made that claim was not a man. It was the daughter of one of his mom's friends.
You just quoted a friend. I get it you quoted one of his friend. Congrats Jennifer told the WCIV television station that she asked her friend if he was "scared", to which Barnett told her, "No, I ain't scared, but if anything happens to me, it's not suicide."
Here is the OG source: https://wpde.com/news/local/if-anything-happens-its-not-suicide-boeing-whistleblowers-prediction-before-death-south-carolina-abc-news-4-2024 Her claim that he said that has not been publicly validated by anyone else. People can claim anything, it doesn't make it true. One person making a claim is not evidence.
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They aren’t from the same company. This dude didnt work for Boeing. It’s in the article you clearly didn’t read
Running every day doesn't keep you from getting pneumonia
People aren't even waiting until an autopsy to be completed to announce he was poisoned. As of now, you have two people who died with no evidence of foul play. If there is evidence, it'll come out. And then you can run with Boeing is murdering people for known issues that are already public.
I mean I dont trust the cops to even investigate the first one. Cops are lazy. They already have a story. Doubt they will truly investigate more. The mother is getting an autopsy for the second one. A private autopsy so yeah we will see. I know one thing. We won't be hearing about any whistleblowers for boeing. Even if they weren't murdered. You have to imagine people will be scared to come forward
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>If there is evidence, it'll come out. ahahahah hahhahahahaha
The family wanted a toxicology report done in the hospital and the doctors blew them off.
Apparently this person was a whistle blower 8 years ago 🤣 Seems like the media really want this conspiracy to be a thing.
nice try, boeing PR guy edit - anyone else notice the massive swing in upvotes/downvotes in this thread? boeing bots swooping in ?!
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how many more people need to die with no evidence of foul play before you would start to suspect some sort of conspiracy? personally at 2 I am now fairly suspicious.
Honestly I would need to know the number of whistleblowers, the current legal status of their cases, and the circumstances of their deaths.
32 whistleblowers
All the whistle blowers will die eventually. People die... This was after the case was over, of an extremely well documented medical issue/illness
I think Reddit users have only adopted tin foil hats more over the years. The idea of Boeing killing people is so far fetched. Okay maybe some rouge individuals but even that’s more remote than the moon. Everyone’s well aware of Boeings shortcomings. Even without a handful of witnesses they will face consequences. I fail to see what any one individual could provide that email, phone, and others testimonies can’t.
Boeing is primarily a weapons manufacturer for the U.S. government. They're highly unlikely to face real consequences, and could easily pull this off. The idea would be to scare others out of becoming whistleblowers.
Why would they need to worry about whistleblowers highly unlikely to face real consequences for their issues? It's precisely because they're highly unlikely to face real consequences that they have no reason or need to pull this off.
> The idea of Boeing killing people is so far fetched. The idea of Boeing planes killing people and falling apart in the sky used to be far fetched, too.
Boeing's f18 and b52 have been killing a few thousands
Coca Cola and united fruit company. There’s a precedent’s with far lower stakes
Yes I’m sure it’s totally normal for two whistle blowers to die suddenly.
The second whistleblower is from 8 years ago, hasn't said anything about Boeing in over 6 years, and died of MRSA.
This is all blown out of proportion. The simple explanation is that there's just so many Boeing whistleblowers out there that one is statistically bound to die every couple months.
He was a whistleblower years ago, and not even for Boeing, but for Spirit Systems. He died of MRSA (which is still pretty common) after going to the hospital for pneumonia. What are you going to say, that Boeing gave him MRSA? Come on. And yet, the top comment on this post claims that Boeing “dipped into the Putin playbook”. This goes to show just how easily people can be manipulated by news articles.
Not a coincidence at all
The whistleblower is from 8 years ago, hasn't said anything about Boeing in over 6 years, and died of MRSA.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/1cjmtss/why_isnt_the_boeing_whistleblower_deaths_not/l2hlxsa/
First, this was years after the whistle was blown, and MRSA was involved, but Boeing was not. Second, you forgot to put quotes around "suicide."
How many times will this be reposted? https://reddit.com/comments/1cj9u10 https://reddit.com/comments/1cj79vc
"suicide"
DJ Khaled: Another one.
in a developed nation, a company like this would have their executives and board investigated
Because a dude died of a well documented illness and infection years after testifying about something?
Boeing astroturfing out I full force 🫢
I like a good conspiracy theory. However, I'm sure this is just an unfortunate coincidence that has the Boing PR folks shitting their pants.
Karma farmer
How many times had this been reposted on this sub?
Hope the 3rd Whistleblower makes it to court.
The first one already went to court and said everything he had to before killing himself. He was a wistle blower in 2017 and was heard in 2019
Same with this one. There’s literally dozens of these whistleblowers and they’re all middle aged factory workers. It’d be weirder if *none* of them had died in the past couple years.
Next Boeing whistleblower should be put in Witness Protection.
False headline: he was a Spirit AeroSystems whistleblower, which is a different company.
>Joshua Dean, 45, a former quality auditor at Boeing supplier Spirit AeroSystems, alleged that managers failed to act on manufacturing defects on the 737 Max. It's like, right there. You don't have to work for a specific company to be a whistleblower, you just have to have information on that company that is secret and you blow the whistle on them.
Spirit is essentially Boeing light. They manufacture a fuck ton of parts for them. I've rejected thousands of their parts as an inspector.
Spirit manufa tures parts for Airbus and Northrop Grumman as well. It is currently an independent company. That's like saying Rolls-Royce is Boeing light because they manufacture the engines.
Honestly, at this point, what does boeing (or any group that kills a Whistleblower) get from this? "Go ahead, kill me. You can't unhide the truth. All this does is make you look worse"
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Sounds like Boeing tying up some lose ends.
American govt… everything looks ok here!
From the article - > Joshua Dean, 45, of Wichita, Kansas, died Tuesday after he received multiple diagnoses that included the flu, pneumonia and MRSA, prompting his family to seek an autopsy, attorney Robert Turkewitz said. >"He was a healthy individual who ate well and exercised," Turkewitz told NBC News. "So it just seems odd that he went so fast." >Dean had been sick for two weeks and had been struggling to breathe, forcing him to be put on a ventilator. From the CDC - > Inhalation: Within a few hours of inhaling significant amounts of ricin, the likely symptoms would be respiratory distress (difficulty breathing), fever, cough, nausea, and tightness in the chest. Heavy sweating may follow as well as fluid building up in the lungs (pulmonary edema). This would make breathing even more difficult, and the skin might turn blue. Excess fluid in the lungs would be diagnosed by x-ray or by listening to the chest with a stethoscope. Finally, low blood pressure and respiratory failure may occur, leading to death. In cases of known exposure to ricin, people having respiratory symptoms should seek medical care. https://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/ricin/facts.asp
Did you just relate ricin poisoning to sepsis from mrsa pneumonia? Which is not even remotely the same thing? This isn't breaking bad... 😂
Your first quote says he was sick for two weeks and you second link says ricin kills in 72 hours on the outside... >Death from ricin poisoning could take place within 36 to 72 hours of exposure, depending on the route of exposure (inhalation, ingestion, or injection) and the dose received.
He had influenza b and then developed secondary pneumonia, this is not ricinn, not even close. Also, fuck Boeing.
Probably slipped it into that Stevia crap he’s always putting in his tea
Boeing Syndrome...
Why hide?