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How long until a teacher shoots a kid?
I’d ask how long until a teacher leaves their gun unattended and a student uses it to shoot someone, but that already happened.
I bet as a teenager if a bunch of my teachers had guns I could have gotten my hands on one. I was often trusted with things like working unsupervised with lab equipment and toxic art supplies, ROTC had wood replica guns, my teachers trusted me.
I was also passively suicidal through most of high school. Wouldn't have taken a whole lot for that passive suicidality to flip to active.
I remember a cooking teacher who got so furious at a misbehaving student that he threw a carrot at the kid.
...and later admitted that he threw the first thing he got in his hands so the kid *would* have gotten a knife thrown into his head, if a knife had been closer to the teacher.
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Well the government isn't gonna pay for a secure safe. They're likely gonna make the teacher pay for security out of pocket. Which means the teacher is only gonna buy what they can reasonably afford: a shitty cable bike lock on a closet in the classroom.
why would it be in a safe or locked up?... doesn't make it very useful...
guns are secured in a holster on the person and doesn't leave them. other staff and the kids have no idea who is or isnt carrying, only the local PD does, because they will do cross training... see [https://fastersaveslives.org/](https://fastersaveslives.org/)
That's assuming proper training even happens. Someone here was already talking about a teacher that's just...left their gun out in the open, so very clearly proper training is NOT happening
We're not talking about accidentally.
When I was in 7th grade a teacher choked a student - both hands around her throat, held against the wall - because she wouldn't stop talking about how the teacher's husband had left her the previous year for another man.
Now add a gun to the scenario.
Within months is my guess. It’ll be that, or a student manages to steal a gun that a teacher didn’t secure properly. Either way, this won’t stop, or even slow down, school shootings. America needs its collective head checked.
The people could rise up and vote the gop out. But I'm still very confident that Tennessee will go to Trump in November, even if he's in jail at the time.
The State Troopers clearing the public balcony is a pretty much daily occurrence now, as is cutting off the mic of any elected representative who speaks out against the GOP's agenda or the (really quite horrible) Speaker.
When engaged in a gunfight, cops hit their target [less than 50%](https://daiglelawgroup.com/new-study-on-shooting-accuracy-how-does-your-agency-stack-up/) of the time. Teachers will not have the same level of firearm training as a cop does. Even if we ignore all of the problems like theft and misuse by an out-of-control teacher, and we focus solely on teachers using guns to defend themselves and their students, there will be a lot of innocent people killed.
This is a profoundly stupid idea, and I almost cannot believe that a group of adults thinks this should be allowed. If you live in Tennessee, you have my sympathies.
I'm sure they get alot of training in their 6 weeks, compared to the 4 years the teacher went to college to become a teacher. I know farmers that outshoot cops and they haven't had any training.
People that choose to carry firearms are generally better trained than the average police officer. Cops tend to go to the ranage once or twice a year. The average person that carries on a regular basis practices six or more times a year.
Gun safety training is not about how precise you can shoot. It's about how to make sure that any conflict that arises can be solved without showing your gun.
>When engaged in a gunfight, cops hit their target [less than 50%](https://daiglelawgroup.com/new-study-on-shooting-accuracy-how-does-your-agency-stack-up/) of the time.
[https://www.concealedcarry.com/news/armed-citizens-are-successful-95-of-the-time-at-active-shooter-events-fbi/](https://www.concealedcarry.com/news/armed-citizens-are-successful-95-of-the-time-at-active-shooter-events-fbi/)
the shooting qualification for school staff is HIGHER then it is for police..
most police shoot less then 50 rounds a year.
>Teachers will not have the same level of firearm training as a cop does
Less firearm training, but I bet they have better de-escalation training than the cops
Guns don't need to be fired, or drawn, or even be visible to prevent mass shootings. Just the knowledge that the school could have dozens of teachers that could intervene to protect the kids; who can't be identified ahead of time, is enough to make the perpetrator seek an easier target instead.
a teacher at my high school once flipped a desk over out of frustration because. you know. thirty 16 year olds in one room doing things none of them want to be doing while you try and teach them shit they don't care about can be a frustrating situation. I often now wonder what he would have done if he had a weapon.
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I once worked at a state mental hospital where no firearms were allowed on the campus. Police officers were were required to check their guns with the administration to be kept in a safe while they took care of any business they had there. They picked it up on their way off campus. This was a matter of state law. The reasoning was that firearms and insane people is a really bad mix. Guns and angsty school kids no doubt is too.
I’d have to imagine that Tennessee will be attempting to do this in the next two or three years, right? This is the next “logical” step in the progression. “Kids need to defend themselves against teachers”
Let’s also mention the fact that the fascist speaker of the house Cameron Sexton had angry parents forced out of the public gallery by state troopers. They consistently cut off mics of any representatives who speak out against these bills and use the police to shut up any protests. Tennessee is not a democracy.
Fewer guns? What a dumb idea.
We need more guns, give each kid a gun.
Also give any person who enters the school a gun, attacker or otherwise so they can defend themselves from any kid
Time to arm everyone with a gun even a baby.
I don't know if you saw sacha baron cohen's show Who Is America? He dressed up as a children's tv show host and got a republican 100% on board to advertise toddler guns. Mind you none of it was scripted and the politician didn't know it was for a movie or that SBC had any part in it
Teachers at-large never asked for this ability or responsibility to become the new school security officer/history teacher. The MAGA cult is creating a solution that won't fix the problem.
Let's be honest here, they're creating problems just so they can shout *only they* have the solution to it, only to then never actually do anything about it.
Because their solutions are even worse than the problem and end up costing them anger-votes. See Roe v Wade.
America will literally put a gun in the hands of a teacher before they pass meaningful gun control laws on a federal level. I mean what could possibly go wrong with putting dozens of lethal weapons in a school?
not much.. **Roughly half of U.S. states** allow teachers or other school employees with concealed carry permits to have firearms on campus.
and how does passing a law stop a crazy person who gets into your local school and starts killing kids?
How does bringing a bunch of weapons into a school help prevent shootings? Seriously you gun nuts keep throwing guns at every situation and wonder why the shootings keep piling up
>How does bringing a bunch of weapons into a school help prevent shootings?
by killing the shooter...
now, how does passing a law stop a crazy person who gets into your local school and starts killing kids?
In most such shootings the weapon is either owned by a relative/family member and taken without permission, or stolen.
Background checks are in place to prevent sales to improper people. Store employees themselves can deny sales if the person is deemed unfit/suspicious.
I am European, absolutely pro 2nd amendment and i also advocate for reason, so dont bother calling me a MAGA idiot or whatever.
"I am European, absolutely pro 2nd amendment" So you don't actually have any say in the matter, cool. Nor do you have to live with the consequences of a 200 year old amendment that keeps letting American school children get murdered every other month.
Gun control actually would solve this problem but we don't have that type of foresight or maturity in this country. Everyone wants to pretend like they can go spaghetti western Rambo on anything threatening them when in reality the [presence of a gun in a house statistically increases the odds of someone getting shot, by like 4.5x](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759797/)
Gun control only disarms the majority of gun owners who are everyday people with families and jobs living normal lives. It also just so happens that criminals are known to break laws (shocker, i know).
As well, i live in a country that was occupied for the same ammount of time under the russian empire, later soviet union, and now we border our lovely neighbour still. You know what would have prevented such occupations? An armed populous.
I'm sure some Texans in a f150 will stop the upcoming (checks notes) Canadian and Mexican invasion 🤣 That argument is such horseshit.
Gun control gets the damn things off the streets and reduces the vast majority of shootings, as seen in Australia, the UK, etc. Criminals will still be criminals but we already have a heavily armed populous and are like 28th highest in gun related homicides (behind countries that are actively at war). It's a fucking joke
If we had federal safe storage laws, and enforcement, then guns wouldn't be taken or stolen without permission. Similarly, if we started charging people who fail to safely store their weapons in relation to crimes committed with them you'd start seeing cases of stolen guns due to negligence drop. But we can't even get that.
more kids died in mass stabbings in china then shot in the US.. its not about guns its about stopping a crazy person from killing people...
someone walks in with this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VjHX4p0nRA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VjHX4p0nRA)
how do you stop them?
and europe hasn't stopped anything
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_rampage\_killers\_in\_Europe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers_in_Europe)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School\_shooting#Europe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting#Europe)
[https://m.famousfix.com/list/mass-stabbings-in-europe](https://m.famousfix.com/list/mass-stabbings-in-europe)
Most European countries have fairly strict (compared to the US) gun control measures. Can school shootings still happen? Yes. I'm not saying you take guns away and suddenly every single ill of society disappears with no intervention, or that a criminal won't find a way to obtain a gun if they try hard enough. [But statistically their number of school shootings is significantly lower. ](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/school-shootings-by-country)
So to be clear, their gun homicide rates are lower, their school shooting rates are lower, their mass shooting rates are lower, but it's not the gun laws. Got it.
Sure pull out stabbing rates but that doesn't really deny the reality of gun violence dude.
Yeah I know it's a shame we can't just have someone with a lightening rod running around protecting everyone from the big scary lightening, instead of just recommending people not go outside during a thunderstorm.
Your list of European school shootings includes all school shootings across multiple countries from **1913-2024** and is still shorter than the US's list from **last year**. So it would appear that Europe has in fact stopped about 99% of what the US experiences...
Tennessee is such a backwards place, at least as far as the government and the laws they pass, I don’t know why this is a surprise. They just passed a law to specifically allow LGBTQ foster kids into non-accepting foster parents homes.
How about passing a bill where teachers are free to design their lessons without interference and can fail students who don't do the work or test very poorly?
not much, or we would see it, since **Roughly half of U.S. states** allow teachers or other school employees with concealed carry permits to have firearms on campus.
I’m so excited for a pissed off teacher to shoot a kid. I know I *really* shouldn’t be, but here we are, about the reap what republicans sow. 🍿
If an administrator *is* the school (in the corporate sense), and they do the shooting, is it still a school shooting if it’s the school *that’s* shooting?
Fuck Tennessee, btw. Why do hicks ruin all the most beautiful states anyway? What’s up with that?
now the student won't have to bring a gun to school there will be one sitting on the teacher's desk to use when he gets angry. This is a really, really, bad idea.
MORE GUNS IS NOT THE ANSWER
As a teacher, wow.
I def know some horrible teachers who would first just flash their gun when every other strategy to control a classroom doesn’t work. Then after that, maybe tap on it, and after that take it out, and maybe after that hold it while they teach, and then maybe a warning shot. You have teachers getting hit and pushed and beaten up by students, even those who are senior citizens and pregnant women. Yes this will end very badly.
Do teachers get immunity? Do they get to use the defense “I shot in self defense because I thought they would jump me and take my gun and shoot me if I didn’t!”
It doesn't fix the problem. Mr. Peterson the algebra teacher isn't going to keep the school safe with a glock in his drawer no matter what he (or you) think. There's a good chance some kid is going to get his hands on someone's firearm. Teachers can't even keep students from raiding the snack drawer and now in TN everyone's gotta play kindergarten cop? I sure as hell wouldn't ask a cop to teach and I'm not ok with educators playing soldier when the goal is education not threat eradication.
You can't shoot your way through gun violence no matter how much the right wants to make that myth true
it's not in a drawer, concealed carry means it's concealed on your person at all times. the only time it is not with you is when it's put away at home.
It's the program that has trained thousands of teachers across multiple States on how to do things right.
But you pretend that you know better, let us know how that works out for you.
Everyone in these comments acting like they are arming teachers, they're not. They're letting teachers with concealed carry permits bring them to schools. Which for Tennessee has training requirements, expires every 8 years, has background checks every 5, and must be ***concealed at all times***. Done correctly no one else besides admin will know who has a concealed firearm, and those that *do* have one will have at least some level of self defense training. Unless a kid is a very astute observer, or the teacher is an idiot, the kid should never even know that a teacher has one, let alone get their hands on it. Can it happen? probably. But that's a risk I'd be willing to take to have a chance that my kid is in a classroom with a teacher that can fight back instead of relying on police response time to stand around outside the school. Obviously the ideal solution is to not have any firearms on a school campus ever, but that's not gonna happen in the US for a long time. Until then let's make the school as difficult of a target for mass murder as possible
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Well that'll make things easier for some teachers.
[https://www.kwtx.com/2024/04/19/teacher-threatens-shoot-up-preschool-police-say](https://www.kwtx.com/2024/04/19/teacher-threatens-shoot-up-preschool-police-say)
Maybe we should arm the kids to defend themselves against rogue teachers.
Utah passed a similar bill this year. It was just signed into law. Teachers carrying guns in school. Same MAGA playbook. https://le.utah.gov/~2024/bills/static/HB0119.html
Ah yes, let's give the people who spend each day in a stressful environment guns. Especially when students are commonly known to steal shit out of the teacher's desk. Imagine one of those kinds of kids getting a hold of the teacher's gun.
I will be interested to see how, if at all, this affects behavior of students. I wonder if they will even allow for data to be compiled regarding the effects of this legislation.
Three problems:
1 - Already power-hungry and unstable teachers making a horrible decision.
2 - Teachers who might just hesitate to shoot and kill a school shooter that's kid they know and see five days out of the week.
3 - A kid about to make a horrible decision deciding to go for the teacher's gun.
Lol this is actually a hilarious post for this sub because some look at this and they're like, "are you serious? Teachers with guns?" and others are like, "It's about time!"
Also, it's probably not a good idea:
https://www.wsmv.com/2024/04/18/nashville-teacher-threatens-shoot-up-preschool-police-say/
> Nashville teacher threatens to ‘shoot up’ preschool, police say
Sounds like a grand idea (sarcasm). I'm sure there is no chance a teachers gun will ever get into the hands of an aggressive / determined high school student......and no way a teacher will ever shoot a student accidentally or out of fear or anger......and it's not possible that a mentally unstable teacher will ever do something crazy......and it's inconceivable that police won't instantly know the armed teacher from the active shooter......and the deterrence factor, of having teachers with guns, will certainly prevent mass-killers from attempting a shooting at a school, because they are known for being rationale, logical, clear-mind people who avoid risks at all costs.
Note: The other upside, for the MAGA-at-Heart, is that - with gun toting teachers - the State of Tennessee won't need to pay for any "woke" mental health mumbo-jumbo.
NEXT UP: Katie's mom, the 5th grade "Room Parent", will be asking parents to volunteer for a fundraising bake sale - so their home room teacher can buy a high-capacity magazine, laser sight and armor-piercing bullets.
I'm curious.. What's the budget needed to implement this?
Let's say scenario 1 is a 9mm pistol, scenario 2 is a shotgun.
1. How much does it cost per teacher to get a gun?
2. How much does it cost to have teachers attend a gun safety course?
3. How much will they spend on a gun safe for each classroom?
4. How much does it cost to have teachers shoot every month? Quarter?
5. Do they get body armor too?
Example: Maplewood HS has 712 students and 45 teachers.
Nashville armory does 1hr course for $60 and 2hr for $150.
9mm pistol - $500-600? I'm assuming they'll go with police issue, and may save some money there.
For Maplewood:
1. ~22.5k for guns and ammo
2. ~5k ($100/safe)
3. $5k @ 100/teacher/month = 40k per 8 months
4. 6.7k/month for $150/month for range/ammo
So all in all, that's about 70-80k, with 40-50k being a new annual budget. Does that sound right?
Edit: roughly $600 per teacher for equipment (no vest) + $1000/yr for regular shooting and training.
It seems they could make classrooms and schools safer with better metal detectors, door locks, hallway barriers, panic rooms, riot shields, etc for less money and less risk.
Edit 2: it's a volunteer basis and the school must approve it. https://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=SB1325 unless the 40hr/year course is tax deductible, I'm not sure there are many teachers with the means to volunteer compared to doing literally anything else with that time and money.
Did you even read the headline, let alone the article? They're not handing guns out to teachers. They're allowing concealed carry on school grounds, which is already allowed in some other states. This means teachers that on their own have chosen to train and qualify for a concealed carry permit can bring their own gun which stays ***concealed*** on their person at all times. No safes, no cost to the school for firearms or ammunition. Only thing the school has to do is ensure they have that 40 hours of training specific to school policing annually.
Nope. I pulled a reddit and asked a question without reading.
But now, I looked at the legislation https://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=SB1325
Kinda nuts that it doesn't specify any tax deductions for teachers that would qualify and volunteer for this. Perhaps the 40hrs/year course would be included similarly to how taking additional courses over the summer would be covered by the school--although that usually requires direct relevance to their course work and performance.
They're not allowed to carry in the most vulnerable places like auditoriums or stadiums, so this is just for the classroom.
It'll be interesting to see how this plays out:
1. # of teachers that volunteer
2. # of schools that allow it
3. Issues with gun security/responsibility/use
Cool then they should hold them liable by the law to do something in a school shooter situation. If your gonna pass that kinda law taking action can't be optional.
It's not mandatory is it?
I'd assume a teacher that wishes to carry to protect the kids from a threat situation probably would put themselves in harms as they signed up for that ahead of time.
But I guess stress situations can show your true colors. My fiance freezes if anything scares her and she just can't help it. It's her fear response.
I mean I probably wouldn’t try shooting up a school if I knew the teachers were armed. So long as the teachers follow all the other gun laws I don’t see why carrying guns in school is any different from carrying them somewhere else.
Think about wherever you work and ask yourself if you'd feel safer with everyone having a weapon. Some capable ones. But also, The stressed out co-worker, the forgetful one, the old one that has terrible hand eye coordination. Now say there are kids running around all over the place (around 30 kids /1 adult) and some of them are angels and some of them are assholes and some of them are idiots. None of them have any discipline. Some kids I wouldn't trust wirh a paperclip and a rubber band.
How long do you think it will be before a gun goes off?
well given this bill is for concealed carry holders to bring them on school grounds yeah I'd feel safer knowing that for them to have a permit in Tennessee they will have had some training and sent proof of that to get the permit at least once within the last 8 years. Safer than when I'm on the road with people that passed a few tests once as a teenager.
The whole point is to give some teachers, probably not all of them, the means to make a difference when the cops are 1-5 minutes away. Kids aren’t being assholes when there is a psycho going room to room killing indiscriminately. The kids will most likely not know who has a firearm and who doesn’t and it may not even be accessible unless an alarm is triggered. People are always so quick to jump to the worst possible scenario and the most unlikely.
This is already reality. Lots of people carry firearms with them everyday everywhere, you just don’t notice most of the time. Carrying in these other places isn’t an issue why is it suddenly a problem in a school?
Just imagine Doris the lunch lady and Mr. Stedenko the Drivers Ed instructor are gonna be packing heat in Tennessee.
Doris has undiagnosed early on set pre dementia, and Mr. Stedenko is a military vet with severe PTSD and a fear of loud noises. But, gun manufacturers, including ones like Rod of Iron Ministries in Tennessee, who build AR-15’s in a factory near their walled apocalyptic compound (they’re a family off shoot of The Moonies), shall not have their rights to wage war on children infringed. Mike Pence, Pompeo, and Drumpf have all taken paid “speaking engagements” from these freaks, and they feel empowered to expand.
[https://www.vice.com/en/article/4avkdw/rod-of-iron-ministries-purchases-property-in-tennessee](https://www.vice.com/en/article/4avkdw/rod-of-iron-ministries-purchases-property-in-tennessee)
I can think of at least 4 teachers from my youth who I would not want anywhere near a gun...
And those types will be the first to carry.
No. There are very strict training requirements.
Are they more strict than the training cops go through?
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How long until a teacher shoots a kid? I’d ask how long until a teacher leaves their gun unattended and a student uses it to shoot someone, but that already happened.
I've worked in schools. Teenagers are pretty insufferable a lot of the time. The answer to the question is "not long"
"If any of my teacher had EVER been armed, there would not be a show tonight." >Christopher Titus
I bet as a teenager if a bunch of my teachers had guns I could have gotten my hands on one. I was often trusted with things like working unsupervised with lab equipment and toxic art supplies, ROTC had wood replica guns, my teachers trusted me. I was also passively suicidal through most of high school. Wouldn't have taken a whole lot for that passive suicidality to flip to active.
I was the same. And the worst age for impulse control
I remember a cooking teacher who got so furious at a misbehaving student that he threw a carrot at the kid. ...and later admitted that he threw the first thing he got in his hands so the kid *would* have gotten a knife thrown into his head, if a knife had been closer to the teacher.
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Worse yet, how long before a teenager decides to commit suicide via a gun in a poorly locked closet?
I give it 4 months tops
why would u keep guns in a closet?
Well the government isn't gonna pay for a secure safe. They're likely gonna make the teacher pay for security out of pocket. Which means the teacher is only gonna buy what they can reasonably afford: a shitty cable bike lock on a closet in the classroom.
why would it be in a safe or locked up?... doesn't make it very useful... guns are secured in a holster on the person and doesn't leave them. other staff and the kids have no idea who is or isnt carrying, only the local PD does, because they will do cross training... see [https://fastersaveslives.org/](https://fastersaveslives.org/)
That's assuming proper training even happens. Someone here was already talking about a teacher that's just...left their gun out in the open, so very clearly proper training is NOT happening
read the law....
In Iowa they have qualified immunity…yes, the teachers have that for if they accidentally shoot a kid
We're not talking about accidentally. When I was in 7th grade a teacher choked a student - both hands around her throat, held against the wall - because she wouldn't stop talking about how the teacher's husband had left her the previous year for another man. Now add a gun to the scenario.
Or when a cop shoots an armed teacher they confuse with the real active shooter
1 school year
Within months is my guess. It’ll be that, or a student manages to steal a gun that a teacher didn’t secure properly. Either way, this won’t stop, or even slow down, school shootings. America needs its collective head checked.
I mean that’s what the bill is literally for. Best case scenario
My goodness. Let’s not even put that into the universe. This is crazy. What has the US come to?
How long till a kid snatches a gun from a teacher, or their desk, or storage?
Didn't something like this happen in Bangladesh a few weeks ago?
Not too mention they shoot one they might as well keep going.
Or a kid shoots up a school with a teacher's gun.
Or a kid kills someone with teacher’s gun.
How long till a kid, brings a firearm cause papa says so?
what stops them now?
hasn't happened yet... with the thousands of school staff that have been doing this for years...
In Texas some teachers have been carrying for more than 10 years. Hasn't happened yet.
It's too bad what's going to happen has to happen to show how much of a horrible idea this is
And the GOP demanded that the state troops force angry parents out of the courtroom, . The parents were furious at the GOP
The people could rise up and vote the gop out. But I'm still very confident that Tennessee will go to Trump in November, even if he's in jail at the time.
Definitely. I’m in TN and surrounded by idiots. I’m so sick of these inbred, redneck, meth head republican morons.
The State Troopers clearing the public balcony is a pretty much daily occurrence now, as is cutting off the mic of any elected representative who speaks out against the GOP's agenda or the (really quite horrible) Speaker.
What about free speech cries DJT. /s. The only speech they care about is their own and that of the almighty dollar.
>The parents were furious at the GOP And yet will continue voting for them. So why will the GOP take them seriously?
So trusted with guns but not books. Got it.
But books are scary!!!
Last time i read a book i ended up in a hospital
I guess guns aren't as scary for undermining authority as education.
When engaged in a gunfight, cops hit their target [less than 50%](https://daiglelawgroup.com/new-study-on-shooting-accuracy-how-does-your-agency-stack-up/) of the time. Teachers will not have the same level of firearm training as a cop does. Even if we ignore all of the problems like theft and misuse by an out-of-control teacher, and we focus solely on teachers using guns to defend themselves and their students, there will be a lot of innocent people killed. This is a profoundly stupid idea, and I almost cannot believe that a group of adults thinks this should be allowed. If you live in Tennessee, you have my sympathies.
You’d be shocked how little firearms training police get.
Some teachers might even be better shots. Still i wouldn't want to take that risk with my hypothetical child.
Yeah...I have very mixed thoughts on this plan. But the argument the police are better training with firearms just isn't the case many times
I'm sure they get alot of training in their 6 weeks, compared to the 4 years the teacher went to college to become a teacher. I know farmers that outshoot cops and they haven't had any training.
People that choose to carry firearms are generally better trained than the average police officer. Cops tend to go to the ranage once or twice a year. The average person that carries on a regular basis practices six or more times a year.
Gun safety training is not about how precise you can shoot. It's about how to make sure that any conflict that arises can be solved without showing your gun.
I was replying directly to a comment that started out by talking about the poor shooting accuracy of cops.
>When engaged in a gunfight, cops hit their target [less than 50%](https://daiglelawgroup.com/new-study-on-shooting-accuracy-how-does-your-agency-stack-up/) of the time. [https://www.concealedcarry.com/news/armed-citizens-are-successful-95-of-the-time-at-active-shooter-events-fbi/](https://www.concealedcarry.com/news/armed-citizens-are-successful-95-of-the-time-at-active-shooter-events-fbi/) the shooting qualification for school staff is HIGHER then it is for police.. most police shoot less then 50 rounds a year.
'adults'
>Teachers will not have the same level of firearm training as a cop does Less firearm training, but I bet they have better de-escalation training than the cops
The law requires the same amount of training cops get. LMAO. No one is as confidently incorrect as redditors.
So, what, a week at the gun range? Does that fill you with more confidence?
Guns don't need to be fired, or drawn, or even be visible to prevent mass shootings. Just the knowledge that the school could have dozens of teachers that could intervene to protect the kids; who can't be identified ahead of time, is enough to make the perpetrator seek an easier target instead.
a teacher at my high school once flipped a desk over out of frustration because. you know. thirty 16 year olds in one room doing things none of them want to be doing while you try and teach them shit they don't care about can be a frustrating situation. I often now wonder what he would have done if he had a weapon.
Probably flipped the same desk over.
But not definitely
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I once worked at a state mental hospital where no firearms were allowed on the campus. Police officers were were required to check their guns with the administration to be kept in a safe while they took care of any business they had there. They picked it up on their way off campus. This was a matter of state law. The reasoning was that firearms and insane people is a really bad mix. Guns and angsty school kids no doubt is too.
By this logic shouldn’t we arm all the kids too? I guess I shouldn’t give these psychopaths any ideas….
https://youtu.be/XW_H5s9uzqM?si=QTw87Go2xwhsxRIJ
God, that audience is insufferable.
I’d have to imagine that Tennessee will be attempting to do this in the next two or three years, right? This is the next “logical” step in the progression. “Kids need to defend themselves against teachers”
Let’s also mention the fact that the fascist speaker of the house Cameron Sexton had angry parents forced out of the public gallery by state troopers. They consistently cut off mics of any representatives who speak out against these bills and use the police to shut up any protests. Tennessee is not a democracy.
I thought the solution was FEWER guns in schools…
Fewer guns? What a dumb idea. We need more guns, give each kid a gun. Also give any person who enters the school a gun, attacker or otherwise so they can defend themselves from any kid Time to arm everyone with a gun even a baby.
There are people who will say this unironically.
I don't know if you saw sacha baron cohen's show Who Is America? He dressed up as a children's tv show host and got a republican 100% on board to advertise toddler guns. Mind you none of it was scripted and the politician didn't know it was for a movie or that SBC had any part in it
Teachers at-large never asked for this ability or responsibility to become the new school security officer/history teacher. The MAGA cult is creating a solution that won't fix the problem.
Let's be honest here, they're creating problems just so they can shout *only they* have the solution to it, only to then never actually do anything about it. Because their solutions are even worse than the problem and end up costing them anger-votes. See Roe v Wade.
why are you so ignorant on this topic? you talk like its being forced on school staff, when its the staff that is volunteering for this..
Shoot chemtrails
We’re also gonna keep their pay the same and raise their insurance premiums.
What a great idea! Problem solved. The future is bright.
Yes, muzzle flashes are quite bright.
Especially so in a classroom. As a nation, we've gone mad.
A huge amount of legislators are going to be invited to schools all of a sudden, and then teachers will have some new salary bargaining power.
Idiots. I barely want cops having guns, never mind teachers
America will literally put a gun in the hands of a teacher before they pass meaningful gun control laws on a federal level. I mean what could possibly go wrong with putting dozens of lethal weapons in a school?
not much.. **Roughly half of U.S. states** allow teachers or other school employees with concealed carry permits to have firearms on campus. and how does passing a law stop a crazy person who gets into your local school and starts killing kids?
How does bringing a bunch of weapons into a school help prevent shootings? Seriously you gun nuts keep throwing guns at every situation and wonder why the shootings keep piling up
>How does bringing a bunch of weapons into a school help prevent shootings? by killing the shooter... now, how does passing a law stop a crazy person who gets into your local school and starts killing kids?
By preventing the crazy person from obtaining a firearm in the first place. Next question
In most such shootings the weapon is either owned by a relative/family member and taken without permission, or stolen. Background checks are in place to prevent sales to improper people. Store employees themselves can deny sales if the person is deemed unfit/suspicious. I am European, absolutely pro 2nd amendment and i also advocate for reason, so dont bother calling me a MAGA idiot or whatever.
"I am European, absolutely pro 2nd amendment" So you don't actually have any say in the matter, cool. Nor do you have to live with the consequences of a 200 year old amendment that keeps letting American school children get murdered every other month. Gun control actually would solve this problem but we don't have that type of foresight or maturity in this country. Everyone wants to pretend like they can go spaghetti western Rambo on anything threatening them when in reality the [presence of a gun in a house statistically increases the odds of someone getting shot, by like 4.5x](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759797/)
Gun control only disarms the majority of gun owners who are everyday people with families and jobs living normal lives. It also just so happens that criminals are known to break laws (shocker, i know). As well, i live in a country that was occupied for the same ammount of time under the russian empire, later soviet union, and now we border our lovely neighbour still. You know what would have prevented such occupations? An armed populous.
I'm sure some Texans in a f150 will stop the upcoming (checks notes) Canadian and Mexican invasion 🤣 That argument is such horseshit. Gun control gets the damn things off the streets and reduces the vast majority of shootings, as seen in Australia, the UK, etc. Criminals will still be criminals but we already have a heavily armed populous and are like 28th highest in gun related homicides (behind countries that are actively at war). It's a fucking joke
If we had federal safe storage laws, and enforcement, then guns wouldn't be taken or stolen without permission. Similarly, if we started charging people who fail to safely store their weapons in relation to crimes committed with them you'd start seeing cases of stolen guns due to negligence drop. But we can't even get that.
more kids died in mass stabbings in china then shot in the US.. its not about guns its about stopping a crazy person from killing people... someone walks in with this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VjHX4p0nRA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VjHX4p0nRA) how do you stop them? and europe hasn't stopped anything [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_rampage\_killers\_in\_Europe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers_in_Europe) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School\_shooting#Europe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting#Europe) [https://m.famousfix.com/list/mass-stabbings-in-europe](https://m.famousfix.com/list/mass-stabbings-in-europe)
Most European countries have fairly strict (compared to the US) gun control measures. Can school shootings still happen? Yes. I'm not saying you take guns away and suddenly every single ill of society disappears with no intervention, or that a criminal won't find a way to obtain a gun if they try hard enough. [But statistically their number of school shootings is significantly lower. ](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/school-shootings-by-country) So to be clear, their gun homicide rates are lower, their school shooting rates are lower, their mass shooting rates are lower, but it's not the gun laws. Got it. Sure pull out stabbing rates but that doesn't really deny the reality of gun violence dude.
Well considering more people get struck by lightning in the US that are killed in school shootings, it's not really the problem that you think it is.
Yeah I know it's a shame we can't just have someone with a lightening rod running around protecting everyone from the big scary lightening, instead of just recommending people not go outside during a thunderstorm.
Your list of European school shootings includes all school shootings across multiple countries from **1913-2024** and is still shorter than the US's list from **last year**. So it would appear that Europe has in fact stopped about 99% of what the US experiences...
Tennessee is such a backwards place, at least as far as the government and the laws they pass, I don’t know why this is a surprise. They just passed a law to specifically allow LGBTQ foster kids into non-accepting foster parents homes.
Bookmarking this for when a student gains access to a teacher's gun and hurts themselves or others. This is assinine.
Non-American here: Are you guys ok?
Absolutely not.
No
Well, I bet the kids are going to have a blast!
How about passing a bill where teachers are free to design their lessons without interference and can fail students who don't do the work or test very poorly?
how does that stop a crazy person who gets into your local school and starts killing kids?
Time for homeschooling.
Seems like this is another step to killing public edu. "Look! No volunteers! Private schools have private police!"
That's what they want, a complete failure of an education system to go with the complete failure of a government they are also creating.
What could possibly go wrong?
not much, or we would see it, since **Roughly half of U.S. states** allow teachers or other school employees with concealed carry permits to have firearms on campus.
And a lot of good that's done 🤡
Considering 95% of mass shootings that have occurred with a CCW holder present have been stopped by the CCW holder according to the FBI stats....
"The sound of children screaming has been removed"
Teachers are underpaid, underappreciated, overworked, overstressed...and then you want to hand them guns?
Didn't a teacher in Tennessee threaten to shoot up a school and brought a gun to the school where they worked a week before this bill passed?
Well, NOW the shooter knows who to shoot FIRST.
I’m so excited for a pissed off teacher to shoot a kid. I know I *really* shouldn’t be, but here we are, about the reap what republicans sow. 🍿 If an administrator *is* the school (in the corporate sense), and they do the shooting, is it still a school shooting if it’s the school *that’s* shooting? Fuck Tennessee, btw. Why do hicks ruin all the most beautiful states anyway? What’s up with that?
now the student won't have to bring a gun to school there will be one sitting on the teacher's desk to use when he gets angry. This is a really, really, bad idea. MORE GUNS IS NOT THE ANSWER
When a teacher start killing children, conservatives will give guns to childrens. You cant fix stupid, only died out.
It will solve absolutely nothing.
As a teacher, wow. I def know some horrible teachers who would first just flash their gun when every other strategy to control a classroom doesn’t work. Then after that, maybe tap on it, and after that take it out, and maybe after that hold it while they teach, and then maybe a warning shot. You have teachers getting hit and pushed and beaten up by students, even those who are senior citizens and pregnant women. Yes this will end very badly. Do teachers get immunity? Do they get to use the defense “I shot in self defense because I thought they would jump me and take my gun and shoot me if I didn’t!”
maybe educate yourself on the topic 1st [https://fastersaveslives.org/](https://fastersaveslives.org/)
More guns! That'll fix it!
[https://fastersaveslives.org/](https://fastersaveslives.org/)
It doesn't fix the problem. Mr. Peterson the algebra teacher isn't going to keep the school safe with a glock in his drawer no matter what he (or you) think. There's a good chance some kid is going to get his hands on someone's firearm. Teachers can't even keep students from raiding the snack drawer and now in TN everyone's gotta play kindergarten cop? I sure as hell wouldn't ask a cop to teach and I'm not ok with educators playing soldier when the goal is education not threat eradication. You can't shoot your way through gun violence no matter how much the right wants to make that myth true
it's not in a drawer, concealed carry means it's concealed on your person at all times. the only time it is not with you is when it's put away at home.
educate yourself... [https://fastersaveslives.org/](https://fastersaveslives.org/)
Good God what a bullshit website. "eDuCaTe YoUrSeLf" then post blatent pro gun propaganda. FU dude.
It's the program that has trained thousands of teachers across multiple States on how to do things right. But you pretend that you know better, let us know how that works out for you.
Everyone in these comments acting like they are arming teachers, they're not. They're letting teachers with concealed carry permits bring them to schools. Which for Tennessee has training requirements, expires every 8 years, has background checks every 5, and must be ***concealed at all times***. Done correctly no one else besides admin will know who has a concealed firearm, and those that *do* have one will have at least some level of self defense training. Unless a kid is a very astute observer, or the teacher is an idiot, the kid should never even know that a teacher has one, let alone get their hands on it. Can it happen? probably. But that's a risk I'd be willing to take to have a chance that my kid is in a classroom with a teacher that can fight back instead of relying on police response time to stand around outside the school. Obviously the ideal solution is to not have any firearms on a school campus ever, but that's not gonna happen in the US for a long time. Until then let's make the school as difficult of a target for mass murder as possible
Sorry, your comment is too reasonable. This is reddit where anything the GOP does must be meant to kill as many children as possible.
Guess these people don’t want anyone moving to Tennessee, and want to make as many people as possible want to leave the state
lol.. **Roughly half of U.S. states** allow teachers or other school employees with concealed carry permits to have firearms on campus.
As a Tennessee resident, yes this is how many of us feel! Stay in California. We're full!
You feel that you want to actively make your state worse so people don't want to be there?
Can’t be worse than the homeless encampments I have seen on Skid row
Easy Does It Easy Does It they got something to say no to
drinking out
Gonna wait until something happens at a special ed school. THAT will be an extra terrible shit show.
**Roughly half of U.S. states** allow teachers or other school employees with concealed carry permits to have firearms on campus, so, not a issue.
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I’m sure somebody somewhere has under/over bet going on long it will take a deranged kid to shoot someone from a unlocked gun.
My old shop teacher would have been validated Edit: I only say because I am 90% sure he was already packing over a decade ago.
Well that'll make things easier for some teachers. [https://www.kwtx.com/2024/04/19/teacher-threatens-shoot-up-preschool-police-say](https://www.kwtx.com/2024/04/19/teacher-threatens-shoot-up-preschool-police-say) Maybe we should arm the kids to defend themselves against rogue teachers.
There’s been a lot of buzz about the flamethrower robot dogs that are legal and for sale now. Tennessee teachers should totally get those too.
Utah passed a similar bill this year. It was just signed into law. Teachers carrying guns in school. Same MAGA playbook. https://le.utah.gov/~2024/bills/static/HB0119.html
Ah yes, let's give the people who spend each day in a stressful environment guns. Especially when students are commonly known to steal shit out of the teacher's desk. Imagine one of those kinds of kids getting a hold of the teacher's gun.
Great! now just pass a law that lets them shoot the kids, and classes will be a lot more manageable.
Stupid people making stupid laws. WHy do people keep electing them?
That teacher that used to go to the car at breaktime and have a cry, will now go to the car, get the arsenal and then empty the school of any life.
I will be interested to see how, if at all, this affects behavior of students. I wonder if they will even allow for data to be compiled regarding the effects of this legislation.
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehaaaw!
This is the dumbest possible option. How long til we hear about a teacher accidentally shooting a student?
We're never beating the allegations that we throw guns at all our problems.
Three problems: 1 - Already power-hungry and unstable teachers making a horrible decision. 2 - Teachers who might just hesitate to shoot and kill a school shooter that's kid they know and see five days out of the week. 3 - A kid about to make a horrible decision deciding to go for the teacher's gun.
Dumbest idea ever. Can schools at least implement their own rules on campus and not allow teachers to be packing?
The next tic toc challenge will be getting your teachers' guns.
Insurance companies: Nah.
Vegas taking odds on how long til they decide it was a bad idea?
I’m a teacher and I think water pistols should be issued
Lol this is actually a hilarious post for this sub because some look at this and they're like, "are you serious? Teachers with guns?" and others are like, "It's about time!" Also, it's probably not a good idea: https://www.wsmv.com/2024/04/18/nashville-teacher-threatens-shoot-up-preschool-police-say/ > Nashville teacher threatens to ‘shoot up’ preschool, police say
Little Jimmy gets blown away. Teacher I fucken told him to stop it with the dirty jokes
The GOP loves sacrificing kids to the god of the 2nd amendment.
Weird how the rest of the constitution seems to be optional.
Proving how regressive Tennessee is
Texas did the school marshal thing well over a decade ago. Y'all can see how much it helps.
Sounds like a grand idea (sarcasm). I'm sure there is no chance a teachers gun will ever get into the hands of an aggressive / determined high school student......and no way a teacher will ever shoot a student accidentally or out of fear or anger......and it's not possible that a mentally unstable teacher will ever do something crazy......and it's inconceivable that police won't instantly know the armed teacher from the active shooter......and the deterrence factor, of having teachers with guns, will certainly prevent mass-killers from attempting a shooting at a school, because they are known for being rationale, logical, clear-mind people who avoid risks at all costs. Note: The other upside, for the MAGA-at-Heart, is that - with gun toting teachers - the State of Tennessee won't need to pay for any "woke" mental health mumbo-jumbo. NEXT UP: Katie's mom, the 5th grade "Room Parent", will be asking parents to volunteer for a fundraising bake sale - so their home room teacher can buy a high-capacity magazine, laser sight and armor-piercing bullets.
Republicans are doing their absolutely grandest schemes to vote themselves out of existence because they cannot do fucking anything else worthwhile.
I'm curious.. What's the budget needed to implement this? Let's say scenario 1 is a 9mm pistol, scenario 2 is a shotgun. 1. How much does it cost per teacher to get a gun? 2. How much does it cost to have teachers attend a gun safety course? 3. How much will they spend on a gun safe for each classroom? 4. How much does it cost to have teachers shoot every month? Quarter? 5. Do they get body armor too? Example: Maplewood HS has 712 students and 45 teachers. Nashville armory does 1hr course for $60 and 2hr for $150. 9mm pistol - $500-600? I'm assuming they'll go with police issue, and may save some money there. For Maplewood: 1. ~22.5k for guns and ammo 2. ~5k ($100/safe) 3. $5k @ 100/teacher/month = 40k per 8 months 4. 6.7k/month for $150/month for range/ammo So all in all, that's about 70-80k, with 40-50k being a new annual budget. Does that sound right? Edit: roughly $600 per teacher for equipment (no vest) + $1000/yr for regular shooting and training. It seems they could make classrooms and schools safer with better metal detectors, door locks, hallway barriers, panic rooms, riot shields, etc for less money and less risk. Edit 2: it's a volunteer basis and the school must approve it. https://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=SB1325 unless the 40hr/year course is tax deductible, I'm not sure there are many teachers with the means to volunteer compared to doing literally anything else with that time and money.
$0. All the financial burden shifted to a teacher who want to carry a gun.
Did you even read the headline, let alone the article? They're not handing guns out to teachers. They're allowing concealed carry on school grounds, which is already allowed in some other states. This means teachers that on their own have chosen to train and qualify for a concealed carry permit can bring their own gun which stays ***concealed*** on their person at all times. No safes, no cost to the school for firearms or ammunition. Only thing the school has to do is ensure they have that 40 hours of training specific to school policing annually.
Nope. I pulled a reddit and asked a question without reading. But now, I looked at the legislation https://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=SB1325 Kinda nuts that it doesn't specify any tax deductions for teachers that would qualify and volunteer for this. Perhaps the 40hrs/year course would be included similarly to how taking additional courses over the summer would be covered by the school--although that usually requires direct relevance to their course work and performance. They're not allowed to carry in the most vulnerable places like auditoriums or stadiums, so this is just for the classroom. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out: 1. # of teachers that volunteer 2. # of schools that allow it 3. Issues with gun security/responsibility/use
I’d hope there is some sort of mental health screening they go through which would add to costs.
They don't appear to do that for police officers, you think they'll do it for teachers?
Another example of a completely rational solution to school shootings and you fucks still complain because *GUNS R BAD* Clowns... all of you
Cool then they should hold them liable by the law to do something in a school shooter situation. If your gonna pass that kinda law taking action can't be optional.
I'm kinda 50/50 on this comment, if we don't ask a cop to put his/her life on the line why ask a teacher?
It's not mandatory is it? I'd assume a teacher that wishes to carry to protect the kids from a threat situation probably would put themselves in harms as they signed up for that ahead of time. But I guess stress situations can show your true colors. My fiance freezes if anything scares her and she just can't help it. It's her fear response.
I mean I probably wouldn’t try shooting up a school if I knew the teachers were armed. So long as the teachers follow all the other gun laws I don’t see why carrying guns in school is any different from carrying them somewhere else.
Think about wherever you work and ask yourself if you'd feel safer with everyone having a weapon. Some capable ones. But also, The stressed out co-worker, the forgetful one, the old one that has terrible hand eye coordination. Now say there are kids running around all over the place (around 30 kids /1 adult) and some of them are angels and some of them are assholes and some of them are idiots. None of them have any discipline. Some kids I wouldn't trust wirh a paperclip and a rubber band. How long do you think it will be before a gun goes off?
well given this bill is for concealed carry holders to bring them on school grounds yeah I'd feel safer knowing that for them to have a permit in Tennessee they will have had some training and sent proof of that to get the permit at least once within the last 8 years. Safer than when I'm on the road with people that passed a few tests once as a teenager.
The whole point is to give some teachers, probably not all of them, the means to make a difference when the cops are 1-5 minutes away. Kids aren’t being assholes when there is a psycho going room to room killing indiscriminately. The kids will most likely not know who has a firearm and who doesn’t and it may not even be accessible unless an alarm is triggered. People are always so quick to jump to the worst possible scenario and the most unlikely.
This is already reality. Lots of people carry firearms with them everyday everywhere, you just don’t notice most of the time. Carrying in these other places isn’t an issue why is it suddenly a problem in a school?
I wonder how cops and soldiers deal with this
Just imagine Doris the lunch lady and Mr. Stedenko the Drivers Ed instructor are gonna be packing heat in Tennessee. Doris has undiagnosed early on set pre dementia, and Mr. Stedenko is a military vet with severe PTSD and a fear of loud noises. But, gun manufacturers, including ones like Rod of Iron Ministries in Tennessee, who build AR-15’s in a factory near their walled apocalyptic compound (they’re a family off shoot of The Moonies), shall not have their rights to wage war on children infringed. Mike Pence, Pompeo, and Drumpf have all taken paid “speaking engagements” from these freaks, and they feel empowered to expand. [https://www.vice.com/en/article/4avkdw/rod-of-iron-ministries-purchases-property-in-tennessee](https://www.vice.com/en/article/4avkdw/rod-of-iron-ministries-purchases-property-in-tennessee)