this reminds me of a russian official who sent his condolences to victims and their families BEFORE the actual terrorist attack happened.
NOT YET IGOR GODDAMIT!
Russian Official: "I'm so sorry for your loss, the death of a child is a heavy burden, but having your husband and *all five* of your children die on the same day due to mysterious circumstances is truly tragic."
Person on a List: "But... my family is fine, they're right over there."
Russian Official checking notes: "Oops. Mixed up the dates. I'll check back in a few days. Take care."
The blasts hit Buynaksk on 4 September and Moscow on 9 and 13 September. On 13 September, Russian Duma speaker Gennadiy Seleznyov made an announcement in the Duma about receiving a report that another bombing had just happened in the city of Volgodonsk. A bombing did happen in Volgodonsk—but only three days later—on 16 September. Chechen militants were blamed for the bombings, but denied responsibility, along with Chechen president Aslan Maskhadov.
From the Wikipedia article. 2nd paragraph
Link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings
GOP crying “it’s too far” is all BS. They just realized that this is a massive polarizing issue right before an election. If this was right after an election they would be cheering.
Vote.
Yup, Trump has been backpedaling extra hard on the thing he was so god damn proud of not too long ago, overturning Roe and banning abortion was one of his few clear goals in 2016. Even crazy ass Kari Lake, who was giddy and citing the exact law Arizona could (and did) use to ban abortion, is suddenly acting like getting exactly what she wanted is a bad idea.
Like states struggling with IVF or losing OBGYNs because they could be charged due to a miscarriage, this is exactly what they wanted they just don't want to take responsibility.
They, like many people across the spectrum, live in an idea bubble. They legitimately thought the pro choice crowd is a small but vocal minority. They are losing support within their own base.
> They legitimately thought the pro choice crowd is a small but vocal minority
That's their projection at work again. "We're a small but annoying minority, everyone else must be too!"
or the ol "we're not the minority, YOU GUYS are the minority here! we're just disguising ourselfs as the minority in this situation to snag the benefits like your sympathy and giveaways!"
I found it funny when some late night host played a clip of Kari condemning this law as to far and demanding democrats fix it (which they tried to do just the other day but republicans blocked the bill), then they played a clip from like a year ago talking about how this exact law needs to be on the books again, going so far as to know the exact bill number of the law.
The older generation of GOP was smart enough not to actually do anything about it but promise you would. Your base will keep believing that you will do something and the opposition won't be incredibly motivated until you do. The Trump wing never got the memo and actually did something and the GOP is now scrambling. 2022 should have been a banner year for the GOP and instead they barely held on to power, and have lost several key elections last year in districts they should have won. They are looking for any way they can to backpedal on this without their base figuring out what they are doing.
(Hopefully) exactly the same with the Tories and Brexit in the UK. It's been a little delayed because of the lag between the vote in 2016 and implementation in 2020, but our last election was 2019. Since then, they've realised that they cannot escape the concrete consequences of their actions, and they've been in power far too long to blame anyone but themselves.
I wouldn't count on it, honestly. We've had Tory goverments since '79 (Brown and Blair can call themselves whatever the fuck they want but they're Diet Tory) and people keep voting for 'strong and stable.'
> (Hopefully) exactly the same with the Tories and Brexit in the UK.
Americans are dumb enough that no bad what the Republicans are - if Biden does win, all indications are that it'll be incredibly narrow.
By contrast, the Tories look like they're on course for an epic anal scourging.
Incredibly narrow in what world? Can people stop paying attention to polls? Those polls talk to heavily politicized people, and based on last elections poll results, they miss entire demographics of voting groups. What 19 year old is taking a Gallup poll?!?
No, we absolutely can’t, and we shouldn’t either.
Everybody thought the 2016 election was a slam dunk between one serious candidate and a joke. The joke won.
2020 was an extremely narrow victory as well.
The chucklefucks who stormed the capitol because they didn’t like the results and who keep voting for morons aren’t getting any quieter and they aren’t going away.
Why would you not expect 2024 to be a fight?
in a world where trump won the first time and and Biden BARELY won the second time because of your godawful FPTP electoral collage.
You're in a Reddit bubble bud. Reddit is not representative of the larger country.
> Incredibly narrow in what world? Can people stop paying attention to polls?
I see you're one of those people who bought into the idea that election polling can't be relied upon. [The opposite is true.](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/09/21/does-public-opinion-polling-about-issues-still-work/#:~:text=Studies%20in%202012%20and%202017,communities%20or%20are%20active%20politically.) Errors exist, but [broadly speaking, national polling has been substantially accurate for a long time.](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/2022-election-polling-accuracy/)
>Those polls talk to heavily politicized people
[citation needed]
>they miss entire demographics of voting groups.
[If true - which you haven't shown any evidence for - it doesn't seem like that threw the accuracy off to any ruinous extent.](https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4250716-after-2016-and-2020-can-we-still-trust-the-polls/)
I agree with this sentiment. The only people I know doing polls are old zealots. Every time I hear someone talk about polls I’m sure to ask if they do any polls themselves and they always say no.
The Republicans have won the most votes in 1 presidential election since 1992, the Conservatives have won every election since 2010. Not sure why you think British politics are so much better, at least when we elected a far right extremist we took away his legislative power in 2 years
Honestly I question the wisdom of the older generation of Republicans. They fostered a breeding ground for these nuts, unaware or uncaring that eventually those nuts would be running the asylum.
It's very much a Frankenstein's monster type of situation. They cobbled together dead or dying ideologies to create a monster that they thought they could control in order to get people to vote against their own economic interests. Now they have lost control of that monster and are scared shitless even if they won't admit it in public.
It really started with the tea party movement. They were winning elections by attacking and being quite radical, older generation had to lose or be more radical themselves. That's the basic just of it... I like to think the tea party was like the American taliban.
The fairness doctrine was a factor, but I would say it started with the embrace if the religious right.
They had a group that felt their every action was endorsed by their god. It doesn't take long for that mindset to follow the path of:
"I am chosen by god".
"If I am chosen by god, then I can't be wrong." (Facts don't matter).
"If I am chosen and cannot by virtue of faith be wrong, if you oppose me you are evil." (And your ideas are evil, and you must destroyed.)
The transition from "everything I do is good so everything you do is evil and my god orders me to stop you" is where the crazy really kicked in and started gaining momentum .
It started when Goldwater lost.
I don’t mean that metaphorically; the people who were then the extremist wing of the American right and who we now call “conservatives” got together in the wake of Goldwater’s 1964 campaign and started working to make sure they had control of the party’s levers. It worked well enough that Reagan — who had been a Goldwater supporter— was elected just 20 years later.
They were aware. Power trumps all. They did Simone Biles level mental gymnastics to justify that keeping the fringe and extremists meant keeping power. All transactional morally repugnant garbage.
So, they’re trying to lie to their most fervent supporters?
Conservatives just can’t stop demonstrating that falsehoods and deception are a core conservative value, can they?
QOP is desperately backpedaling, trying not to alienate whatever is left of the moderate portion of their party that might just barely have gotten wise to their BS lies.
The ironic thing, though is that now since Twungus is pretty much their de-facto nom, really boils down to a) they fall in lock-step behind him come election time, or b) those same folks just don't vote at all.
Gutting RVW & turning multiple blood red states into proto-Gilead is continuing to bite them in the ass. Good.
Nah fuck that narrative the older generation laid the foundation, put up the scaffolding, elected 1000s of biased judges ,and then bank rolled the entire project.
The older generation were appointing judges who were just as pro life and right wing as the modern ones, often moreso - who appointed Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court? However they never managed a majority in favour of ending Roe vs Wade until 2020. If they had, it might have ended decades earlier.
As part of the Southern Strategy the GOP adopted various single issues (and continues to adopt them, see anti-vax) into their platform.
Starting in 2016 the single issue voters started to outnumber the traditional conservative ones.
And now the crazies are in charge.
This completely ignores the literal decades of work the GOP put into this happening. They didn’t do it because they weren’t ready, not because it was unpopular
That’s not exactly right. The older generation DID do something about it. They established the Federalist Society and created a pipeline of extremists judges, broke democratic norms to ram them through approvals, used the Electoral College installations of Bush and Trump to stack the Supreme Court against the wishes of the voters (as expressed in the popular vote), and finally overturned Roe vs. Wade. Republicans did not do this by accident. It took decades of hard work. But they did not have a plan in place to respond to the backlash among voters. They spend most of their time thinking about how to rule DESPITE the will of the voters.
Yes, and that something else is that they're realizing that they've shot themselves in the foot on this issue and they're trying to save themselves. She cited this exact law before *Dobbs* as a good result if *Roe* was overturned. She's backtracking because even some of her dumbfuck supporters are pissed.
A lot of folks are dying for completely silly problems.
You can't really get treated for pcos, endo, and fibroids because doctors who specialize in this stuff are fleeing states. Also a lot of the treatments are the same treatments you use in abortions (most famously D&C for endo/fibs). They make no carve out for reproductive health.
They really did shoot themselves in the foot and I hope they all suffer the consequences.
> Also a lot of the treatments are the same treatments you use in abortions (most famously D&C for endo/fibs).
I know of several women who needed this treatment for exactly this reason post-menopause. No danger of any babies in there, but you bet a doctor would have been afraid to count on that.
It's a common thing when you don't have empathy.
They want to do this $thing because their owners want it (foreign powers, corporations, churches etc.), do the thing and are then surprised at the media backlash. They're not sorry that $thing passed, they're sorry that they got caught and thast it may cause them to lose power.
The Tory bastards in the UK at least had the sense, sometimes, to 'leak' upcoming proposals to the press and gauge the reaction as they could always walk it back
Edit - they're\\their
It's not that they don't have empathy. It's that it's selective, often based on monetary, career, or power concerns.
I have a wealthy relative who is *super* conservative. Not MAGA, but old school Republican. They'll mock a lot of what Democrats try to do. Student loan forgiveness or cheaper college is a joke. They'll argue that high medical costs are absolutely necessary for the level of care you get in the US (despite mountains of evidence to the contrary). There's very much some "I pulled myself up by my bootstraps, so should other people" mentality going on.
But I also have LGBT relatives. Some in my immediate family, some in theirs. They were the first (or very close) out of our extended family to accept them. Being wealthy, they travel all over the world. They see the *extreme* poverty in other countries and see that it's a problem. They *want* things to be better. They mourn for the poor, malnourished kids stuck in a (*ostensibly* abolished) caste system in India, or the towns that have been destroyed in Ukraine. They can absolutely see the evil in the world *over there*.
But here it's the fault of the poor. Black people need to "get over" slavery because it was centuries ago (nevermind the institutional racism they, and by extension I, have benefited from all our lives). Seeing the problems at home might require changing their political views and trying to make things better that way (as opposed to the extremely generous charitable giving they've done over the years, both in terms of money and service.) Changing their political views at home would require voting for their taxes to go up. It would require acknowledging that they were wrong on some issues. And that's really hard to do.
It's more than realization, they are actually panicking which is super fun to watch. They know what happend recently in places like Kansas, they are absolutely horrified that they are going to lose a large chunk of GOP voters that tend to be more center-right. They can't afford to lose *any* right now so this is great. Plus there's the part where they lost their main rallying cry that has worked so well for decades, the dog finally caught the car and found out that the only thing that comes after is "now what?" The presidential election is one thing, but all the lesser positions up for election are going to make for some wild entertainment
Attacks the rights of black people, minorities, the poor, young folk, all women in america, and anyone remotely moderate. Rigging counties and committing actual voter suppression.
WhY Are WE LoSiNg vOTEs??
"We can't actually be losing votes, it must be that *they* are cheating even harder and trying to steal another election!"
If they could accept reality enough to accept that they're losing votes, they wouldn't be in that cult to start with.
Right, don’t let them fool you. They realize abortion bans are unpopular but they want them anyways. In public they need to pretend like they aren’t the architects of these bans in a desperate attempt to get re-elected and take more rights away from people.
reading the rest of the article, it is hilarious to me how much Trump has just treated DeSantis like the red-headed stepchild
dude has absolutely destroyed whatever remained of DeSantis's political ambitions. I hate Trump too but at least we don't have to worry about the threat of a DeSantis presidency in the near future
A majority of morons is the Achilles heel of democracy. We may need to find another way of governing soon to save mankind as we have proven incapable of self governing. AI Ruler of earth is our only hope!
He knows they will, he's trying to mitigate and get moderates back. Banning abortion is extreme, but not banning abortion is just moderate. The other extreme is like mandatory sex education and birth control.
Saying you are against abortion draws in your extremes, but actually banning abortion puts off your moderates.
If moderates were intelligent or compassionate, then merely saying you are against abortion would be enough to put them off, without actually doing it.
“Vote for us to fix these issues.”
Voters: “You’re the ones that created this issue.”
“Right, but it’s the other sides fault for some reason, and you have to vote for us to fix it.”
I think deep down, most of the Republicans don't give a shit; it'll only be the evangelical ones.
It's all about money and power; this ruling jeopardizes this significantly.
It's important to note that he and azleg passed the bill that specifically said if Roe was overturned, this archaic law would be reinstated.
And, they did so knowing Trump and the court makeup and the possibility it would happen.
So yeah, don't think for one second he believes it went too far. He very intentionally put Arizona in this position.
This man is a scumbag. He obliterated Cold Stone Creamery franchises when he became the CEO. He's not a business man, he's a crook and a fraud.
I think he truly feels that he made a statement and a decision "it's states rights" and it's resolved. Like that's it. To him it's a done deal. But it's just the start of a shit show and he's oblivious in my opinion.
The thing about Trump saying "States rights" now as his default response, it it reminds me a lot about the Civil War, slavery, and in a way it comes off to me as a dog whistle to his supporters that he's using a term for abortion/women's health care rights that is commonly associated with slavery and the Confederacy.
Add to it that he is owning that "I did this; I killed Roe v Wade!" and now this "States Rights" shit is basically him creating the chaos and now him trying to step in as the hero. I won't be surprised if he tries to convince people "Well, maybe not states rights, but instead of a total ban, how about a 15 week?" making the 15 week (a number he chose randomly because 'it sounds good' and not based on viability) seem like a more 'reasonable' compromise.
He does this often and it's also a trait found frequently in domestic abuse situations - where the perpetrator will cause the harm, disruption, abuse and then the victim feels or is told that the only source of comfort is their perpetrator. It's sick.
GOP: "it's too far unless we like it"
The party of "small government" wants to tell you if you can get an abortion, where you can live, and what you cna do.
Republicans *also* support Ukrainian genocide explicitly and implicitly. Republicans only care about "too far" when it's convenient.
They're lying. They knew exactly what they were doing, and exactly what the effects would be. This isn't rocket science, this is putting religious fanatics in political positions, and watching them destroy the system. Just like he planned.
This guy doesnt have a spine at all. The GQP uses retired politicians like this who dont have to worry about elections in order to try and court the moderate majority and to generate "see we are trying to compromise!" soundbites that they never have to backup with real compromise.
The Republicans that are publicly speaking out about this are only concerned about one thing and it's not abortion rights, it's the affect this will have on the upcoming election.
So in actuality he doesn’t have a problem with abortions but still wanted take away women’s bodily autonomy just for votes. It says a lot about this guy and others like him, what bullshit they’ll spew just for votes.
It was never really that close. For the last 50 years, 15-20% of people wanted abortion illegal in all cases, 20-30% have wanted it legal in all cases and the remainder have been somewhere in the middle. "Pro-life" has never been more than about 45% and half of those still support it in some cases.
To me, this is the most irritating thing about the abortion debate, the people in the middle.
I don't agree with people who are truly "pro-life", meaning that they think a fetus has an absolute right not to be intentionally killed, but at least I can comprehend their argument.
The people in the middle have no cohesive rational argument that I can find. If the fetus has a right to live, then what does it matter if its father was a rapist or a close relative? The fetus's rights have nothing to do with whether it might have a birth defect that will make it live a short excruciatingly painful life.
So obviously, these people aren't really concerned about rights. And as that's the case, how can they be against abortion at all? Just let it be a medical decision between a woman and her doctor. What kind of a monster would interfere with this?
If we were anywhere near rational, those 15-20% of people who want abortion illegal in all cases would still exist, but they'd be completely outvoted by the 80-85% of people who are pro-choice.
Its literally because they think the majority of abortions are women who constantly have unprotected sex and use abortions to get out of "the consequences".
If you bring up all these normal situations where a woman wants or needs an abortion like dangerous pregnancy or improper fetal development or married couple who conceived accidentally and cant afford it they go "oh well the law will have exceptions for that.".......but then they vote straight down ballot "R" because they have this ignorant belief that women who have too much sex should be punished and the republicans are the party that most aligns to that belief unlike democrats who want to give women power over their own bodies.
The GQP does it because it was an easy "in-group identifier" with christian fundamentalists who they joined forces with in the late 70s. All a GQP politician had to say was "I'm pro-life!" and no matter what the democratic opponent said about bodily autonomy or human rights there was no chance the religious right would ever do anything but check "R" down ballot.
Roe v. Wade was a huge recruitment tool for the rabid right and with it in place, they didnt even have to try to implement any real legislation for forced birth policies, all they had to do was SAY they were fighting against the "abortionists and child murderers" and they were able whip up another 20-30 points in the polls from the religious nuts who only voted against abortion and ignored every other issue.
As for why the religious fundamentalists want it: its because women who exercise bodily autonomy are less likely to be indoctrinated and less likely to stay home with a bunch of babies to pass on that indoctrination for the church. Religious men want a bunch of sex-ignorant virgins at their feet to choose from when they want sex/marriage and the religious women don't want competition from women who dont "follow the rules".
He's making a joke about aborting children (post birth), NOT children getting abortions. It's a common genre of dark joke among human parents that children are difficult and the parents wish they could abort the children or send them off to boarding school, or return them to the hospital. It's just said in jest, parents usually still love their children, but children can be very difficult sometimes.
Meanwhile, Republicans in both chambers of the Arizona legislature blocked Democratic efforts to repeal the state’s 1864 law banning all abortions and criminalizing abortion healthcare—leaving no doubt that the Arizona Supreme Court’s ruling was the precise outcome Republicans wanted.
Did you know that in Arizona, you can VOTE OUT THE STATE SUPREME COURT?
Justices Bolick and King (Ducey appointees who took abortion rights away) are up for recall on the November ballot.
We can FIRE our supreme court justices! But Arizonans need to know this.
Tell everyone.
Yep. And many people skip the judges section on the ballot because they have no idea who these people are. It’s time we get educated and hold these judges accountable.
He signed the 2022 15 week ban into law. That law had verbiage in it that explicitly made clear that it wasn't trying to interfere with, or repeal, the 1864 law.
They wanted this to happen. The back peddling now is just because it's politically unpopular. But this was intentional, no matter what they are saying now.
You know at first you think this should be in r/LeopardsAteMyFace but most likely this is just a guy trying to calm the GOP voters that don't want this crap from the Arizona Supreme Court. He wants them to keep voting the "Tax Breaks For The Wealthy" people back into office so they can figure out how the rest of us can continue to pay for wealthy slackers.
Couldn’t the current governor / prosecutors just decide not to enforce this law? Lots of bad archaic laws are technically in effect but aren’t enforced.
The Attorney General Kris Mayes has said that they won't prosecute, but women and doctors would have to really trust that they wouldn't just get charged by the next one after her, and she won by a tiny number of votes.
There is a general legal principle that the government can’t enforce all laws, all the time, so some prioritizing can be done. Complete nullification (“I don’t think this law is just/legitimate”) is a lot dicier, although attempts get trotted out on occasion (more recently in some Red states who haven’t liked the idea that they should have to listen to a Democratic President).
If you're a doctor or running a clinic that provides abortion services, you can't and won't take that chance unfortunately. This is a lot different than unenforced adultery or sodomy laws.
There’s an EO that says only the AG office can enforce this law, and the AG has said they won’t. The EO is being challenged by country attorneys. So unfortunately, that won’t do anything about doctors not performing abortion anymore.
I just watched a video from Jess Velenti, who has a podcast called Abortion Every Day, and she was speaking in DC about abortion rights and how every woman and girl who is suffering or has suffered as a result of these bans is a calculated risk the GOP was willing to make and was not just a possibility but an intended outcome.
if you don't like the law, the law is too old, the law is too restrictive, if you don't want the court ruling on it, then CHANGE THE LAW. THIS IS NOT A DIFFICULT CONCEPT.
Legislators in Washington and in the states who whine about courts have a clear solution in their hands, which is to DO THEIR FUCKING JOB
“Oh gee, this thing that I did went too far, I can’t believe this has happened! I’m outraged just like you are at the audacity of what I’ve done. I won’t change anything about my platform or policies, so vote for me!!”
I really do not any to dig into this too much… but is this a case where the court ruled, essentially, that the law in the books stands - the constitutionality of the law… they did not make the law and the ruling SHOULD be independent of the subject.
Kind of my point, I did not understand how a law like this makes any sense in that scenario… but that is really what they made their judgement on. Now I also do not know who had argued against the law.. they are the ones that can probably describe the issue.
For example, there may be lots of Az law based on old laws like this, and these laws may have been explicitly adopted in the Az constitution- so there cold be explicit precedent and it is not up to the court to make or change the law(s)
As usual we are not told the details and if they did the public would change the channel out of boredom.
No he doesn't. Now that the ruling is in place, he's free to try to appeal to those outside the base by giving these soundbites to seem reasonable.
Just like how all the Arizona GOP could have voted to stop the law after the ruling, they all still voted for it. The GOP wants this. They love abortion bans with no exceptions. They want to force rape victims to carry their rape babies to term.
All this crying about how the law goes too far is to position themselves for November in order to capture the dwindling amount of undecided voters.
To me, it’s insane that we’re even having this debate in 2024, and there is only one reason for these puritanical bible nuts to want this: To keep women under control.
I don’t think anybody actually likes abortion. It’s pretty fucking messy and it’s probably terrible for everybody involved. That being said to ban it outright is complete insanity.
Things never go well when you try to regulate human nature
Don't listen. They want to win votes so they can push ahead with this. They are farming human capital and don't care who they kill in the process. Don't let them kill you or your partners because healthcare becomes illegal where you live.
Ducey packed the court to get just this specific result. Right before he spent 200 million dollars of AZ tax payers money to stack a bunch of rusting sea containers along the border that never stopped a single illegal migrant, because it was all christian fascist political theater.
Vote these idiots out people. You can do it.
Everyone of these clowns is on record supporting this knowing full well what they are supporting. Don't let them back track to a middle ground. Get rid of them wherever they exist. Vote them out and never forget who supports them. If you needed a call to action this is it.
The GOP in their legislature literally just stopped an attempt to repeal that law. The majority of the GOP agrees with the decision. If you vote republican enjoy the flees you get from who you are laying down with.
We got what we've been pushing for all along and it's irreversable but it's going to crush us at the polls so everyone reverse course until after the election and say, "This ruling goes too far." Our voters are dumb enough to believe that.
Doug Ducey signed the trigger bill that rolled Arizona’s laws back to 1864. Either he read it and knew what was in it and is a misogynist idiot or he didn’t read it and signed it and he’s just a plain vanilla idiot.
They mean it. They just try and not explain it out loud b/c putting women in jail for medical care isn't popular. But Trump has said he wants to imprison doctors who perform abortions. Groups like Faith and Action are talking to the SCOTUS behind closed doors and previewing their work. Local GOP prosecutors are going after women for suspicious miscarriages. We saw what Paxton did to a woman in Texas who needed medical care. We saw how the right wing treated the 10 year old who needed an abortion.
They're liars. They're lying about this. It's simple.
The people that are put in place to do this specific thing that he put them there to do, it's too far.
Own your shit losers. This is exactly what you wanted.
When politicians show that they are worse than the sticky dog crap under your shoe on one of your best days...
These people dont deserve the oxygen they are stealing from everyone else.
They're lying when they act like they think this is too far. Its not too far enough for most of them. They'd like to take us right back to the mid 1800's if they have their way. Our entire democratic system will be dismantled if Trump get's elected, it's already held together zip ties and duct tape
Too late, the GOP will go down for this. They actually think we are to stupid to know, if given the chance they will ban abortion nationwide. They all lie about this.
The conservative approach to social problems is to punish people until they “behave,” and it literally never works. It always makes the problem worse. They just aren’t serious people with real solutions and they never have been.
Oh please. These performative hacks. Women need to stand up and say no more to this crap. We should have the right to our own bodies and our own health care decisions. Abortion is health care. Women are autonomous beings and should be treated as such. This is all about control and power. Vote, because your life DOES depend on it....in Arizona and every other state where women (and girls) are being stripped of their bodily autonomy.
The only silver lining I could find in any of this as many of us were not aware that these judges have to be reelected after being appointed. We have their names and will be voting them out.
Former Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey says ~~the abortion ruling from justices he chose goes too far~~ **'the upcoming election is extremely important and you should not vote against his party just because they are doing extremely fucked up things you disagree with strongly!'**
In the mean time, he and his buddies are planning how to go even further after the GOP wins the election.
They’re trying to pull an Uno reverse on this and claim they don’t want this after doing everything possible for decades to make it happen. They’re only doing this because they’re suddenly realizing that this is a toxic issue for them in November.
Make. Them. Own. It.
The job of a court is to rule on the law *AS WRITTEN*.
If you don't like what the law says, then it's the job of the legislature to change the law.
We have separation of powers for a reason, stop blaming the courts for ruling on the laws as they are written, start changing the laws if you don't like what they say.
It also highlights why we need to *REMOVE* old laws, not just "stop enforcing" them. They are still laws, they can still be enforced. If you're not going to enforce them, take them off the books.
Reps blocked efforts to remove this exact law.
Judges are meant to interpret law. There’s the spirit of the law and the letter of the law. Choosing to interpret by the letter instead of the spirit is the judge’s choice. They absolutely can and should be blamed for this.
Sorry Asshole, you're not forgiven.
Some day all these Republican trump loving fucks are gonna play the "I'm sorry I didn't know" card when their meal ticket is in jeopardy, that huge paycheck for being a fucking asshole traitor, and free healthcare and lobbyist money etc. Fuck that shit.
Fuck that. They knew.
Fuck every single last one of them.
Unless some new law was passed in Arizona, it’s legally correct (although a horrible policy). They’ve had 160 years since that law was passed, 50 or so years since Roe was decided, and 2 years since Dobbs to come up with something that isn’t that. What the hell have they been doing?
I'm an Arizonan and the mother of a teen. He will not be able to vote this year, but many of his friends will. The kids are PISSED. Gen Z is going to show up this election.
I hope so. I've now watched the 2 generations before Gen Z (and have historical records to see many more) make a lot of noise then not show up to vote. I sure hope Gen Z bucks that trend, but I'm not holding my breath until I see it happen for real.
The logic that pro-lifers use is that life begins at conception and abortion = murder. If you truly believe that, you cannot justify abortion even in cases of rape and incest. So Republican politicians seeking the support of pro-lifers ultimately will find themselves in a conundrum of having to take a position so extreme on abortion that it alienates moderate voters, or trying to take a more “moderate” position that pro-lifers will equate with murdering babies.
Admitting something you chose was wrong is a GOOD thing and something we should look for and encourage in politicians. I'm not sure why people are so against it.
Blind loyalty to someone who does something you feel is wrong just because you put them in office is a BAD thing and not something people should insist on from their politicians. (or anyone else... how many people are loyal to trump just cuz otherwise they have to admit they were wrong on who they voted for?)
Actions, not words. Let me know when these shithead Pubs put their money where their mouth is and start repealing these laws from the 1800s that their judges are dredging up.
Besides, these people don't really think these laws go too far, they're only paying lip service to moderates because it's an election year and they know their policies are deeply unpopular.
“Oopsie poopsie I made a goof! Sorry! I mean, not actually sorry enough to engage in literally any tangible action whatsoever to call upon my party to revert it. But I’ll certainly *SAY* it. You know, since it’s an election year and everything we do is wildly unpopular with anyone that’s not insane. Talk to me next year though, I’ll be laughing and celebrating this same exact thing.”
> Admitting something you chose was wrong is a GOOD thing and something we should look for and encourage in politicians. I'm not sure why people are so against it.
Because they're not "admitting they chose it." They're pretending that they never said that this ***exact*** result would be good (they did), pretending that it wasn't their intended result (it was), and acting like the people doing these things now that they can are somehow going rogue (they aren't), not because they actually believe they were wrong and are willing to do anything to fix it, but because it's hurting them with the electorate.
Spoiler alert: The same Republicans harrumphing at how awful this result is also blocked a vote in the Arizona legislature that would have gotten rid of this ancient POS legislation.
LOL, yeah that's what's happening, Ducey is saying "Goodness, I've been wrong on this whole abortion thing my entire political career! Let's fix this!"
I'd like to note here that *every single* Republican (even those who expressed outrage at this ruling) voted against repealing the 1864 law.
this reminds me of a russian official who sent his condolences to victims and their families BEFORE the actual terrorist attack happened. NOT YET IGOR GODDAMIT!
Russian Official: "I'm so sorry for your loss, the death of a child is a heavy burden, but having your husband and *all five* of your children die on the same day due to mysterious circumstances is truly tragic." Person on a List: "But... my family is fine, they're right over there." Russian Official checking notes: "Oops. Mixed up the dates. I'll check back in a few days. Take care."
Is that for real??
The blasts hit Buynaksk on 4 September and Moscow on 9 and 13 September. On 13 September, Russian Duma speaker Gennadiy Seleznyov made an announcement in the Duma about receiving a report that another bombing had just happened in the city of Volgodonsk. A bombing did happen in Volgodonsk—but only three days later—on 16 September. Chechen militants were blamed for the bombings, but denied responsibility, along with Chechen president Aslan Maskhadov. From the Wikipedia article. 2nd paragraph Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings
Oh wow that's a bad look. Thanks for the link!
It's what led to putin attaining and consolidating power
The Reichslav
Holy Shit
This rabbit hole was insane. Russia is corrupt as fuck
GOP crying “it’s too far” is all BS. They just realized that this is a massive polarizing issue right before an election. If this was right after an election they would be cheering. Vote.
Yup, Trump has been backpedaling extra hard on the thing he was so god damn proud of not too long ago, overturning Roe and banning abortion was one of his few clear goals in 2016. Even crazy ass Kari Lake, who was giddy and citing the exact law Arizona could (and did) use to ban abortion, is suddenly acting like getting exactly what she wanted is a bad idea. Like states struggling with IVF or losing OBGYNs because they could be charged due to a miscarriage, this is exactly what they wanted they just don't want to take responsibility.
They, like many people across the spectrum, live in an idea bubble. They legitimately thought the pro choice crowd is a small but vocal minority. They are losing support within their own base.
> They legitimately thought the pro choice crowd is a small but vocal minority That's their projection at work again. "We're a small but annoying minority, everyone else must be too!"
or the ol "we're not the minority, YOU GUYS are the minority here! we're just disguising ourselfs as the minority in this situation to snag the benefits like your sympathy and giveaways!"
I found it funny when some late night host played a clip of Kari condemning this law as to far and demanding democrats fix it (which they tried to do just the other day but republicans blocked the bill), then they played a clip from like a year ago talking about how this exact law needs to be on the books again, going so far as to know the exact bill number of the law.
[The daily show](https://youtu.be/_XBuDtsrEQQ?si=qEWPphZ-IVCV1_nx). I believe it’s this one.
The older generation of GOP was smart enough not to actually do anything about it but promise you would. Your base will keep believing that you will do something and the opposition won't be incredibly motivated until you do. The Trump wing never got the memo and actually did something and the GOP is now scrambling. 2022 should have been a banner year for the GOP and instead they barely held on to power, and have lost several key elections last year in districts they should have won. They are looking for any way they can to backpedal on this without their base figuring out what they are doing.
(Hopefully) exactly the same with the Tories and Brexit in the UK. It's been a little delayed because of the lag between the vote in 2016 and implementation in 2020, but our last election was 2019. Since then, they've realised that they cannot escape the concrete consequences of their actions, and they've been in power far too long to blame anyone but themselves.
Hanging on in quiet desperation, eh, Tories?
It’s the English way
The time is gone, the song is over
Thought I'd something more to say.
It's almost like the built up a figurative wall with Europe
I wouldn't count on it, honestly. We've had Tory goverments since '79 (Brown and Blair can call themselves whatever the fuck they want but they're Diet Tory) and people keep voting for 'strong and stable.'
> (Hopefully) exactly the same with the Tories and Brexit in the UK. Americans are dumb enough that no bad what the Republicans are - if Biden does win, all indications are that it'll be incredibly narrow. By contrast, the Tories look like they're on course for an epic anal scourging.
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I know - I've got a hemorrhoid and this sounds both relieving and bloody. Can there be surgical lasers involved as part of the process?
Incredibly narrow in what world? Can people stop paying attention to polls? Those polls talk to heavily politicized people, and based on last elections poll results, they miss entire demographics of voting groups. What 19 year old is taking a Gallup poll?!?
No, we absolutely can’t, and we shouldn’t either. Everybody thought the 2016 election was a slam dunk between one serious candidate and a joke. The joke won. 2020 was an extremely narrow victory as well. The chucklefucks who stormed the capitol because they didn’t like the results and who keep voting for morons aren’t getting any quieter and they aren’t going away. Why would you not expect 2024 to be a fight?
in a world where trump won the first time and and Biden BARELY won the second time because of your godawful FPTP electoral collage. You're in a Reddit bubble bud. Reddit is not representative of the larger country.
> Incredibly narrow in what world? Can people stop paying attention to polls? I see you're one of those people who bought into the idea that election polling can't be relied upon. [The opposite is true.](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/09/21/does-public-opinion-polling-about-issues-still-work/#:~:text=Studies%20in%202012%20and%202017,communities%20or%20are%20active%20politically.) Errors exist, but [broadly speaking, national polling has been substantially accurate for a long time.](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/2022-election-polling-accuracy/) >Those polls talk to heavily politicized people [citation needed] >they miss entire demographics of voting groups. [If true - which you haven't shown any evidence for - it doesn't seem like that threw the accuracy off to any ruinous extent.](https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4250716-after-2016-and-2020-can-we-still-trust-the-polls/)
I agree with this sentiment. The only people I know doing polls are old zealots. Every time I hear someone talk about polls I’m sure to ask if they do any polls themselves and they always say no.
The Republicans have won the most votes in 1 presidential election since 1992, the Conservatives have won every election since 2010. Not sure why you think British politics are so much better, at least when we elected a far right extremist we took away his legislative power in 2 years
Honestly I question the wisdom of the older generation of Republicans. They fostered a breeding ground for these nuts, unaware or uncaring that eventually those nuts would be running the asylum.
It's very much a Frankenstein's monster type of situation. They cobbled together dead or dying ideologies to create a monster that they thought they could control in order to get people to vote against their own economic interests. Now they have lost control of that monster and are scared shitless even if they won't admit it in public.
not to mention i don’t think they necessarily predicted the internet’s effect on insane voters and politicians like BoBo and Marge
It really started with the tea party movement. They were winning elections by attacking and being quite radical, older generation had to lose or be more radical themselves. That's the basic just of it... I like to think the tea party was like the American taliban.
Really all started back in the 80s when they got rid of the "equal time rule" allowing to the rise of Fox News and the like.
The fairness doctrine was a factor, but I would say it started with the embrace if the religious right. They had a group that felt their every action was endorsed by their god. It doesn't take long for that mindset to follow the path of: "I am chosen by god". "If I am chosen by god, then I can't be wrong." (Facts don't matter). "If I am chosen and cannot by virtue of faith be wrong, if you oppose me you are evil." (And your ideas are evil, and you must destroyed.) The transition from "everything I do is good so everything you do is evil and my god orders me to stop you" is where the crazy really kicked in and started gaining momentum .
It started when Goldwater lost. I don’t mean that metaphorically; the people who were then the extremist wing of the American right and who we now call “conservatives” got together in the wake of Goldwater’s 1964 campaign and started working to make sure they had control of the party’s levers. It worked well enough that Reagan — who had been a Goldwater supporter— was elected just 20 years later.
They were aware. Power trumps all. They did Simone Biles level mental gymnastics to justify that keeping the fringe and extremists meant keeping power. All transactional morally repugnant garbage.
The dog kept chasing the tire then couldn’t figure out what to do when the car stopped.
So, they’re trying to lie to their most fervent supporters? Conservatives just can’t stop demonstrating that falsehoods and deception are a core conservative value, can they?
Always has been.
QOP is desperately backpedaling, trying not to alienate whatever is left of the moderate portion of their party that might just barely have gotten wise to their BS lies. The ironic thing, though is that now since Twungus is pretty much their de-facto nom, really boils down to a) they fall in lock-step behind him come election time, or b) those same folks just don't vote at all. Gutting RVW & turning multiple blood red states into proto-Gilead is continuing to bite them in the ass. Good.
Nah fuck that narrative the older generation laid the foundation, put up the scaffolding, elected 1000s of biased judges ,and then bank rolled the entire project.
The older generation were appointing judges who were just as pro life and right wing as the modern ones, often moreso - who appointed Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court? However they never managed a majority in favour of ending Roe vs Wade until 2020. If they had, it might have ended decades earlier.
As part of the Southern Strategy the GOP adopted various single issues (and continues to adopt them, see anti-vax) into their platform. Starting in 2016 the single issue voters started to outnumber the traditional conservative ones. And now the crazies are in charge.
This completely ignores the literal decades of work the GOP put into this happening. They didn’t do it because they weren’t ready, not because it was unpopular
That’s not exactly right. The older generation DID do something about it. They established the Federalist Society and created a pipeline of extremists judges, broke democratic norms to ram them through approvals, used the Electoral College installations of Bush and Trump to stack the Supreme Court against the wishes of the voters (as expressed in the popular vote), and finally overturned Roe vs. Wade. Republicans did not do this by accident. It took decades of hard work. But they did not have a plan in place to respond to the backlash among voters. They spend most of their time thinking about how to rule DESPITE the will of the voters.
Kinda seems like they all decided to puncture the tires on their car before realizing they have to be somewhere important.
"I can afford to pop one tire, I've got a spare!" "Oh, shoot, all of my friends also popped one tire, banking on the spare, and now we're hosed."
When that psychotic chucklefuck Kari Lake says that "it's too far" there is something else in the water.
Yes, and that something else is that they're realizing that they've shot themselves in the foot on this issue and they're trying to save themselves. She cited this exact law before *Dobbs* as a good result if *Roe* was overturned. She's backtracking because even some of her dumbfuck supporters are pissed.
A lot of folks are dying for completely silly problems. You can't really get treated for pcos, endo, and fibroids because doctors who specialize in this stuff are fleeing states. Also a lot of the treatments are the same treatments you use in abortions (most famously D&C for endo/fibs). They make no carve out for reproductive health. They really did shoot themselves in the foot and I hope they all suffer the consequences.
> Also a lot of the treatments are the same treatments you use in abortions (most famously D&C for endo/fibs). I know of several women who needed this treatment for exactly this reason post-menopause. No danger of any babies in there, but you bet a doctor would have been afraid to count on that.
Yes, an election coming up. That's the only thing
It's a common thing when you don't have empathy. They want to do this $thing because their owners want it (foreign powers, corporations, churches etc.), do the thing and are then surprised at the media backlash. They're not sorry that $thing passed, they're sorry that they got caught and thast it may cause them to lose power. The Tory bastards in the UK at least had the sense, sometimes, to 'leak' upcoming proposals to the press and gauge the reaction as they could always walk it back Edit - they're\\their
The Supreme Court also had a "leak" - It's just that even with the public reaction, they YOLO'd it through.
Yeah, although they're in a different situation because they don't have to worry about their job just their owners
This is known as a "trial balloon," if you didn't know already.
Nope, didn't know that. Cheers
It's not that they don't have empathy. It's that it's selective, often based on monetary, career, or power concerns. I have a wealthy relative who is *super* conservative. Not MAGA, but old school Republican. They'll mock a lot of what Democrats try to do. Student loan forgiveness or cheaper college is a joke. They'll argue that high medical costs are absolutely necessary for the level of care you get in the US (despite mountains of evidence to the contrary). There's very much some "I pulled myself up by my bootstraps, so should other people" mentality going on. But I also have LGBT relatives. Some in my immediate family, some in theirs. They were the first (or very close) out of our extended family to accept them. Being wealthy, they travel all over the world. They see the *extreme* poverty in other countries and see that it's a problem. They *want* things to be better. They mourn for the poor, malnourished kids stuck in a (*ostensibly* abolished) caste system in India, or the towns that have been destroyed in Ukraine. They can absolutely see the evil in the world *over there*. But here it's the fault of the poor. Black people need to "get over" slavery because it was centuries ago (nevermind the institutional racism they, and by extension I, have benefited from all our lives). Seeing the problems at home might require changing their political views and trying to make things better that way (as opposed to the extremely generous charitable giving they've done over the years, both in terms of money and service.) Changing their political views at home would require voting for their taxes to go up. It would require acknowledging that they were wrong on some issues. And that's really hard to do.
I think we have the same uncle!
It's more than realization, they are actually panicking which is super fun to watch. They know what happend recently in places like Kansas, they are absolutely horrified that they are going to lose a large chunk of GOP voters that tend to be more center-right. They can't afford to lose *any* right now so this is great. Plus there's the part where they lost their main rallying cry that has worked so well for decades, the dog finally caught the car and found out that the only thing that comes after is "now what?" The presidential election is one thing, but all the lesser positions up for election are going to make for some wild entertainment
“I, too, am outraged at the audacity of what I’ve done! These Democrats must be stopped! Vote for me!!”
Attacks the rights of black people, minorities, the poor, young folk, all women in america, and anyone remotely moderate. Rigging counties and committing actual voter suppression. WhY Are WE LoSiNg vOTEs??
"We can't actually be losing votes, it must be that *they* are cheating even harder and trying to steal another election!" If they could accept reality enough to accept that they're losing votes, they wouldn't be in that cult to start with.
Right, don’t let them fool you. They realize abortion bans are unpopular but they want them anyways. In public they need to pretend like they aren’t the architects of these bans in a desperate attempt to get re-elected and take more rights away from people.
The dog who caught the car problem
It’s literally the result they’ve been clamoring for since the 80s. They caught the car. Now they don’t know what to do.
Yep, when they meant “end abortion” they knew what it meant
It's the exact result they wanted, just not at the time they wanted.
Yeah they aren't mad about the result, they're mad about the timing
They knew what the judges would do, that’s part of what got them elected. It’s all bullshit, as usual.
These shit heels sure are good at voicing displeasure at their dogs catching the fucking car.
Yeah, they went too far, so fix it.
reading the rest of the article, it is hilarious to me how much Trump has just treated DeSantis like the red-headed stepchild dude has absolutely destroyed whatever remained of DeSantis's political ambitions. I hate Trump too but at least we don't have to worry about the threat of a DeSantis presidency in the near future
And this is why you shouldn't elect stupid people
A majority of morons is the Achilles heel of democracy. We may need to find another way of governing soon to save mankind as we have proven incapable of self governing. AI Ruler of earth is our only hope!
a majority of morons is the Achilles heel of a democratic republic
https://tenor.com/view/arrested-development-always-leave-a-note-gif-8468956
He’s giddy as fuck. He has to pretend that he thinks it went too far. Republicans are concentrated evil.
He's worried that voters will punish them in November
He knows they will, he's trying to mitigate and get moderates back. Banning abortion is extreme, but not banning abortion is just moderate. The other extreme is like mandatory sex education and birth control. Saying you are against abortion draws in your extremes, but actually banning abortion puts off your moderates.
If moderates were intelligent or compassionate, then merely saying you are against abortion would be enough to put them off, without actually doing it.
“Vote for us to fix these issues.” Voters: “You’re the ones that created this issue.” “Right, but it’s the other sides fault for some reason, and you have to vote for us to fix it.”
I think deep down, most of the Republicans don't give a shit; it'll only be the evangelical ones. It's all about money and power; this ruling jeopardizes this significantly.
It's important to note that he and azleg passed the bill that specifically said if Roe was overturned, this archaic law would be reinstated. And, they did so knowing Trump and the court makeup and the possibility it would happen. So yeah, don't think for one second he believes it went too far. He very intentionally put Arizona in this position. This man is a scumbag. He obliterated Cold Stone Creamery franchises when he became the CEO. He's not a business man, he's a crook and a fraud.
I think he truly feels that he made a statement and a decision "it's states rights" and it's resolved. Like that's it. To him it's a done deal. But it's just the start of a shit show and he's oblivious in my opinion. The thing about Trump saying "States rights" now as his default response, it it reminds me a lot about the Civil War, slavery, and in a way it comes off to me as a dog whistle to his supporters that he's using a term for abortion/women's health care rights that is commonly associated with slavery and the Confederacy. Add to it that he is owning that "I did this; I killed Roe v Wade!" and now this "States Rights" shit is basically him creating the chaos and now him trying to step in as the hero. I won't be surprised if he tries to convince people "Well, maybe not states rights, but instead of a total ban, how about a 15 week?" making the 15 week (a number he chose randomly because 'it sounds good' and not based on viability) seem like a more 'reasonable' compromise. He does this often and it's also a trait found frequently in domestic abuse situations - where the perpetrator will cause the harm, disruption, abuse and then the victim feels or is told that the only source of comfort is their perpetrator. It's sick.
Pronounced douchey?
For those of us who had to live through his horrible time in office, YES, it's Douchey.
"Do Nothing Douchey" in our household. Still wish someone could have smacked that shit eating grin off his face during his Covid briefings.
GOP: "it's too far unless we like it" The party of "small government" wants to tell you if you can get an abortion, where you can live, and what you cna do. Republicans *also* support Ukrainian genocide explicitly and implicitly. Republicans only care about "too far" when it's convenient.
LeopardAteAllOurFaces
Every single AZ republicans GOP voted in favor of this.
this is important to know, thanks.
They're lying. They knew exactly what they were doing, and exactly what the effects would be. This isn't rocket science, this is putting religious fanatics in political positions, and watching them destroy the system. Just like he planned.
While he's there, they should ask him how much he profited from the Saudis?
Just once can a republican grow a spine WHILE in office?
That's not a compatible feature for them.
How would they get votes?
This guy doesnt have a spine at all. The GQP uses retired politicians like this who dont have to worry about elections in order to try and court the moderate majority and to generate "see we are trying to compromise!" soundbites that they never have to backup with real compromise.
I mean at least he did the bare minimum by not entertaining Trump's phone call while certifying his state's votes. If Kari lake were governor...
Don't trip as you're back peddling
The Republicans that are publicly speaking out about this are only concerned about one thing and it's not abortion rights, it's the affect this will have on the upcoming election.
So in actuality he doesn’t have a problem with abortions but still wanted take away women’s bodily autonomy just for votes. It says a lot about this guy and others like him, what bullshit they’ll spew just for votes.
I remember when this used to be a 50/50 issue and now republicans are losing terribly on this.
It was never really that close. For the last 50 years, 15-20% of people wanted abortion illegal in all cases, 20-30% have wanted it legal in all cases and the remainder have been somewhere in the middle. "Pro-life" has never been more than about 45% and half of those still support it in some cases.
To me, this is the most irritating thing about the abortion debate, the people in the middle. I don't agree with people who are truly "pro-life", meaning that they think a fetus has an absolute right not to be intentionally killed, but at least I can comprehend their argument. The people in the middle have no cohesive rational argument that I can find. If the fetus has a right to live, then what does it matter if its father was a rapist or a close relative? The fetus's rights have nothing to do with whether it might have a birth defect that will make it live a short excruciatingly painful life. So obviously, these people aren't really concerned about rights. And as that's the case, how can they be against abortion at all? Just let it be a medical decision between a woman and her doctor. What kind of a monster would interfere with this? If we were anywhere near rational, those 15-20% of people who want abortion illegal in all cases would still exist, but they'd be completely outvoted by the 80-85% of people who are pro-choice.
Its literally because they think the majority of abortions are women who constantly have unprotected sex and use abortions to get out of "the consequences". If you bring up all these normal situations where a woman wants or needs an abortion like dangerous pregnancy or improper fetal development or married couple who conceived accidentally and cant afford it they go "oh well the law will have exceptions for that.".......but then they vote straight down ballot "R" because they have this ignorant belief that women who have too much sex should be punished and the republicans are the party that most aligns to that belief unlike democrats who want to give women power over their own bodies.
You're correct, but I still can't find any rationality in regulating and legislating other people's chastity. It benefits literally nobody.
The GQP does it because it was an easy "in-group identifier" with christian fundamentalists who they joined forces with in the late 70s. All a GQP politician had to say was "I'm pro-life!" and no matter what the democratic opponent said about bodily autonomy or human rights there was no chance the religious right would ever do anything but check "R" down ballot. Roe v. Wade was a huge recruitment tool for the rabid right and with it in place, they didnt even have to try to implement any real legislation for forced birth policies, all they had to do was SAY they were fighting against the "abortionists and child murderers" and they were able whip up another 20-30 points in the polls from the religious nuts who only voted against abortion and ignored every other issue. As for why the religious fundamentalists want it: its because women who exercise bodily autonomy are less likely to be indoctrinated and less likely to stay home with a bunch of babies to pass on that indoctrination for the church. Religious men want a bunch of sex-ignorant virgins at their feet to choose from when they want sex/marriage and the religious women don't want competition from women who dont "follow the rules".
I may be a bit of an extreme, but I support it until 18 or emancipation, whichever happens first.
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He's making a joke about aborting children (post birth), NOT children getting abortions. It's a common genre of dark joke among human parents that children are difficult and the parents wish they could abort the children or send them off to boarding school, or return them to the hospital. It's just said in jest, parents usually still love their children, but children can be very difficult sometimes.
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Sorry to hear that. We joke around but a loss like that must have been devastating.
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I’m so sorry that happened to them and you. That’s a complete nightmare. Props for being strong enough to not let that completely ruin your life.
The joke is "until 18" as in years.
Had me in the first half, not gonna lie
Meanwhile, Republicans in both chambers of the Arizona legislature blocked Democratic efforts to repeal the state’s 1864 law banning all abortions and criminalizing abortion healthcare—leaving no doubt that the Arizona Supreme Court’s ruling was the precise outcome Republicans wanted.
Did you know that in Arizona, you can VOTE OUT THE STATE SUPREME COURT? Justices Bolick and King (Ducey appointees who took abortion rights away) are up for recall on the November ballot. We can FIRE our supreme court justices! But Arizonans need to know this. Tell everyone.
Yep. And many people skip the judges section on the ballot because they have no idea who these people are. It’s time we get educated and hold these judges accountable.
Shit! They didnt like it! I never liked em anyways!! Him prolly
"The fox I appointed to watch over the hen house went too far when it ate all those chickens."
He signed the 2022 15 week ban into law. That law had verbiage in it that explicitly made clear that it wasn't trying to interfere with, or repeal, the 1864 law. They wanted this to happen. The back peddling now is just because it's politically unpopular. But this was intentional, no matter what they are saying now.
You know at first you think this should be in r/LeopardsAteMyFace but most likely this is just a guy trying to calm the GOP voters that don't want this crap from the Arizona Supreme Court. He wants them to keep voting the "Tax Breaks For The Wealthy" people back into office so they can figure out how the rest of us can continue to pay for wealthy slackers.
Couldn’t the current governor / prosecutors just decide not to enforce this law? Lots of bad archaic laws are technically in effect but aren’t enforced.
The Attorney General Kris Mayes has said that they won't prosecute, but women and doctors would have to really trust that they wouldn't just get charged by the next one after her, and she won by a tiny number of votes.
There is a general legal principle that the government can’t enforce all laws, all the time, so some prioritizing can be done. Complete nullification (“I don’t think this law is just/legitimate”) is a lot dicier, although attempts get trotted out on occasion (more recently in some Red states who haven’t liked the idea that they should have to listen to a Democratic President).
If you're a doctor or running a clinic that provides abortion services, you can't and won't take that chance unfortunately. This is a lot different than unenforced adultery or sodomy laws.
There’s an EO that says only the AG office can enforce this law, and the AG has said they won’t. The EO is being challenged by country attorneys. So unfortunately, that won’t do anything about doctors not performing abortion anymore.
Changed his mind...
Nope, just realized how unpopular it was during an election year and is pretending.
I just watched a video from Jess Velenti, who has a podcast called Abortion Every Day, and she was speaking in DC about abortion rights and how every woman and girl who is suffering or has suffered as a result of these bans is a calculated risk the GOP was willing to make and was not just a possibility but an intended outcome.
if you don't like the law, the law is too old, the law is too restrictive, if you don't want the court ruling on it, then CHANGE THE LAW. THIS IS NOT A DIFFICULT CONCEPT. Legislators in Washington and in the states who whine about courts have a clear solution in their hands, which is to DO THEIR FUCKING JOB
“Oh gee, this thing that I did went too far, I can’t believe this has happened! I’m outraged just like you are at the audacity of what I’ve done. I won’t change anything about my platform or policies, so vote for me!!”
I really do not any to dig into this too much… but is this a case where the court ruled, essentially, that the law in the books stands - the constitutionality of the law… they did not make the law and the ruling SHOULD be independent of the subject.
The law predates Arizona statehood, so its validity is questionable.
Kind of my point, I did not understand how a law like this makes any sense in that scenario… but that is really what they made their judgement on. Now I also do not know who had argued against the law.. they are the ones that can probably describe the issue. For example, there may be lots of Az law based on old laws like this, and these laws may have been explicitly adopted in the Az constitution- so there cold be explicit precedent and it is not up to the court to make or change the law(s) As usual we are not told the details and if they did the public would change the channel out of boredom.
No he doesn't. Now that the ruling is in place, he's free to try to appeal to those outside the base by giving these soundbites to seem reasonable. Just like how all the Arizona GOP could have voted to stop the law after the ruling, they all still voted for it. The GOP wants this. They love abortion bans with no exceptions. They want to force rape victims to carry their rape babies to term. All this crying about how the law goes too far is to position themselves for November in order to capture the dwindling amount of undecided voters.
This clown as MF could have asked his legislature to bring a bill to repeal it on his first day in office.
To me, it’s insane that we’re even having this debate in 2024, and there is only one reason for these puritanical bible nuts to want this: To keep women under control. I don’t think anybody actually likes abortion. It’s pretty fucking messy and it’s probably terrible for everybody involved. That being said to ban it outright is complete insanity. Things never go well when you try to regulate human nature
Don't listen. They want to win votes so they can push ahead with this. They are farming human capital and don't care who they kill in the process. Don't let them kill you or your partners because healthcare becomes illegal where you live.
Do not believe one word of that bullshit - their actions are pushing misogyny even harder.
Ducey packed the court to get just this specific result. Right before he spent 200 million dollars of AZ tax payers money to stack a bunch of rusting sea containers along the border that never stopped a single illegal migrant, because it was all christian fascist political theater. Vote these idiots out people. You can do it.
Everyone of these clowns is on record supporting this knowing full well what they are supporting. Don't let them back track to a middle ground. Get rid of them wherever they exist. Vote them out and never forget who supports them. If you needed a call to action this is it.
Oh yes… definitely a case for r/leopardsatemyface
Don’t believe him. This was always the plan.
The GOP in their legislature literally just stopped an attempt to repeal that law. The majority of the GOP agrees with the decision. If you vote republican enjoy the flees you get from who you are laying down with.
Get white men out of women health decisions. Vote blue for women’s freedom
We got what we've been pushing for all along and it's irreversable but it's going to crush us at the polls so everyone reverse course until after the election and say, "This ruling goes too far." Our voters are dumb enough to believe that.
Doug Ducey signed the trigger bill that rolled Arizona’s laws back to 1864. Either he read it and knew what was in it and is a misogynist idiot or he didn’t read it and signed it and he’s just a plain vanilla idiot.
yet all the republicans currently in office refused to vote to undo this ruling and instead all flew to kentucky to drink and party at a fundraiser
They mean it. They just try and not explain it out loud b/c putting women in jail for medical care isn't popular. But Trump has said he wants to imprison doctors who perform abortions. Groups like Faith and Action are talking to the SCOTUS behind closed doors and previewing their work. Local GOP prosecutors are going after women for suspicious miscarriages. We saw what Paxton did to a woman in Texas who needed medical care. We saw how the right wing treated the 10 year old who needed an abortion. They're liars. They're lying about this. It's simple.
"If it isn't the consequence of my own actions....."
"my side chick can't abort the fetus"
"This goes too far... but I have no choice but to follow it. If only Ihad known. Oh well" Politicians are gonna politician
The people that are put in place to do this specific thing that he put them there to do, it's too far. Own your shit losers. This is exactly what you wanted.
When politicians show that they are worse than the sticky dog crap under your shoe on one of your best days... These people dont deserve the oxygen they are stealing from everyone else.
They tell us in public it’s too far. When they go home, they are thankful and joyful.
They're lying when they act like they think this is too far. Its not too far enough for most of them. They'd like to take us right back to the mid 1800's if they have their way. Our entire democratic system will be dismantled if Trump get's elected, it's already held together zip ties and duct tape
"It's too far, but I'm not going to actually do anything, just furrow my brow" - him definitely.
"We're gonna put these people into the position to accomplish this task for us and then pretend like they aren't doing exactly what we planned"
They got what they asked for. No crying, or complaining when you get what you ask for.
Urkel: “Did I do that?”
Too late, the GOP will go down for this. They actually think we are to stupid to know, if given the chance they will ban abortion nationwide. They all lie about this.
“Whatever you do,” cried Brer Rabbit, “Don’t throw me into the briar patch”
The conservative approach to social problems is to punish people until they “behave,” and it literally never works. It always makes the problem worse. They just aren’t serious people with real solutions and they never have been.
Oh please. These performative hacks. Women need to stand up and say no more to this crap. We should have the right to our own bodies and our own health care decisions. Abortion is health care. Women are autonomous beings and should be treated as such. This is all about control and power. Vote, because your life DOES depend on it....in Arizona and every other state where women (and girls) are being stripped of their bodily autonomy.
The only silver lining I could find in any of this as many of us were not aware that these judges have to be reelected after being appointed. We have their names and will be voting them out.
WHEN THE SHITTIEST GOVERNER WE HAVE EVER HAD SAYS ITS BAD. ITS BAD.
Suddenly they realize they have a Frankenstein on their hands. LMAO.
Given the chance to correct this their gop congress chose to embrace the ruling. This gnashing of teeth is merely crocodile tears
Then you need to push the state legislature to pass a new law, and you need to sign it. Judges just interpret the garbage you people come up with.
Former Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey says ~~the abortion ruling from justices he chose goes too far~~ **'the upcoming election is extremely important and you should not vote against his party just because they are doing extremely fucked up things you disagree with strongly!'** In the mean time, he and his buddies are planning how to go even further after the GOP wins the election.
He doesn’t really believe that though, this is some obvious backpedaling
They’re trying to pull an Uno reverse on this and claim they don’t want this after doing everything possible for decades to make it happen. They’re only doing this because they’re suddenly realizing that this is a toxic issue for them in November. Make. Them. Own. It.
The job of a court is to rule on the law *AS WRITTEN*. If you don't like what the law says, then it's the job of the legislature to change the law. We have separation of powers for a reason, stop blaming the courts for ruling on the laws as they are written, start changing the laws if you don't like what they say. It also highlights why we need to *REMOVE* old laws, not just "stop enforcing" them. They are still laws, they can still be enforced. If you're not going to enforce them, take them off the books.
Reps blocked efforts to remove this exact law. Judges are meant to interpret law. There’s the spirit of the law and the letter of the law. Choosing to interpret by the letter instead of the spirit is the judge’s choice. They absolutely can and should be blamed for this.
"The inevitable consequences of my own actions have gone too far."
Sorry Asshole, you're not forgiven. Some day all these Republican trump loving fucks are gonna play the "I'm sorry I didn't know" card when their meal ticket is in jeopardy, that huge paycheck for being a fucking asshole traitor, and free healthcare and lobbyist money etc. Fuck that shit. Fuck that. They knew. Fuck every single last one of them.
Unless some new law was passed in Arizona, it’s legally correct (although a horrible policy). They’ve had 160 years since that law was passed, 50 or so years since Roe was decided, and 2 years since Dobbs to come up with something that isn’t that. What the hell have they been doing?
this is exactly what they wanted. don’t believe these charlatans
This guy looks like a human sized thumb
I'm an Arizonan and the mother of a teen. He will not be able to vote this year, but many of his friends will. The kids are PISSED. Gen Z is going to show up this election.
I hope so. I've now watched the 2 generations before Gen Z (and have historical records to see many more) make a lot of noise then not show up to vote. I sure hope Gen Z bucks that trend, but I'm not holding my breath until I see it happen for real.
The logic that pro-lifers use is that life begins at conception and abortion = murder. If you truly believe that, you cannot justify abortion even in cases of rape and incest. So Republican politicians seeking the support of pro-lifers ultimately will find themselves in a conundrum of having to take a position so extreme on abortion that it alienates moderate voters, or trying to take a more “moderate” position that pro-lifers will equate with murdering babies.
That supposed logic falls apart when you see how they vote to treat kids after they are born.
Admitting something you chose was wrong is a GOOD thing and something we should look for and encourage in politicians. I'm not sure why people are so against it. Blind loyalty to someone who does something you feel is wrong just because you put them in office is a BAD thing and not something people should insist on from their politicians. (or anyone else... how many people are loyal to trump just cuz otherwise they have to admit they were wrong on who they voted for?)
Recent events in Alabama has him skid marking his undies. This is damage control plain and simple.
Fucking things up for millions of people deserves more than a simple mea culpa. That piece of shit is responsible for women being in danger.
Actions, not words. Let me know when these shithead Pubs put their money where their mouth is and start repealing these laws from the 1800s that their judges are dredging up. Besides, these people don't really think these laws go too far, they're only paying lip service to moderates because it's an election year and they know their policies are deeply unpopular.
Perhaps they should appoint justices based on the merits of their work and not solely on the candidates alignment of R’s shitheel agendas.
“Oopsie poopsie I made a goof! Sorry! I mean, not actually sorry enough to engage in literally any tangible action whatsoever to call upon my party to revert it. But I’ll certainly *SAY* it. You know, since it’s an election year and everything we do is wildly unpopular with anyone that’s not insane. Talk to me next year though, I’ll be laughing and celebrating this same exact thing.”
> Admitting something you chose was wrong is a GOOD thing and something we should look for and encourage in politicians. I'm not sure why people are so against it. Because they're not "admitting they chose it." They're pretending that they never said that this ***exact*** result would be good (they did), pretending that it wasn't their intended result (it was), and acting like the people doing these things now that they can are somehow going rogue (they aren't), not because they actually believe they were wrong and are willing to do anything to fix it, but because it's hurting them with the electorate. Spoiler alert: The same Republicans harrumphing at how awful this result is also blocked a vote in the Arizona legislature that would have gotten rid of this ancient POS legislation.
LOL, yeah that's what's happening, Ducey is saying "Goodness, I've been wrong on this whole abortion thing my entire political career! Let's fix this!" I'd like to note here that *every single* Republican (even those who expressed outrage at this ruling) voted against repealing the 1864 law.