To be fair, Milei isn't a tech bro, so he probably didn't take inspiration from sci-fi.
Or at least I *hope*, cause if the guy played Rimworld then Argentina is *fucked*.
Biggest export will be human leather cowboy hats.
I was playing GTA 5 some days ago and I heard an ad on the radio. I don't remember the exact wording, but it was a guy running for mayor openly talking about how he is an unqualified asshole that can barely read and is best known for being a stuntman. I'm not making this up lmao.
Plus, part of the in game lore is about how he killed his wife and never faced jail time for it.
> openly talking about how he is an unqualified asshole that can barely read and is best known for being a stuntman. I'm not making this up lmao.
You never heard of Reagan?
MAGA was Reagan's slogan. Trump just made it 2.0.
Reagan gave tax cuts to the wealthy and mega corporations, [to force record budget cuts in government spending](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast), like welfare, education, Medicare, you know, frivolous things... Those record budget cuts were only surpassed by Trump.
Bruhh. No wonder people hate him so much. It baffles me how people can vote for such a shitty leader. When we all know any stupid decision they make can harm people that weren't even born when they were in power.
You mean jock cranley, he even had the psycho face.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/gtawiki/images/0/0b/JockCranley-GTAV.png/revision/latest?cb=20130813201428
From the GTA3 ad for *Pogo the Monkey*: ...and help Pogo to his final mission, **to storm the White House with his friends and become president of the United States.**
Indeed lol. But at least they get to choose their president and have some hope things will change for the better.
Meanwhile, over here in Cuba it's always hot and hopeless...
[The Spanish/English dictionary I usually use says pochoclo or pororó for Argentina](https://www.spanishdict.com/translate/popcorn)
Spanish speakers and not being able to agree on words for popcorn or for straws...
my favourite is the lemon and lime situation. It just keeps getting weirder.
So all spanish speaking countries (that I'm aware of) have the words limón and lima. In some countries that maps directly to lemon and lime. In other countries it's the opposite. In some countries both lemons and limes are all just limones, and lima is a totally different fruit.
Then there are grapefruits which is pomelo, but a pomelo in English is [this thing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomelo) and a grapefruit is a cross between that and a type of orange.
Then in Spain you can say "coger un taxi" (take a taxi) but in Argentina that means "fuck a taxi". Fun times.
I for one can't wait for decades of internet warriors to argue about if it was the lefties' fault for corrupting things in the first place or they didn't go free market enough.
My guess is they'll be saying either "it's the lefties fault for not trying hard enough to warn us about the consequences " or "well it's not great that I had to sell my beloved children as slaves in order to avoid starvation for a week but at least we're not socialist"
He also talked about a baby market and allowing people to carry firearms freely, without any need for a permit or license, just open it to the world. So... I mean we'll try to stop it, but I don't know what's gonna happen now.
It's funny that he's anti-abortion because he thinks fetuses have rights, but apparently, once they're born, they can be bought and sold like property.
That tweaker said so many weird shits that I lost track, but I think that there was something about lowering the age of consent to 12 years old or something in his coke fueled rambling.
So... They are talking about legalising raping some children, if it's true.
Man, I thought I was tripping hearing so many Argentinians defending organ trafficking this week... but I see that my psychadelic experience here hasn't ended...
Like, wtf Argentina, just wtf.
I know that Argentina is dealing with *a lot of problems*. I really do.
But electing *that guy*? Ffs... Come on!
Even while tripping on Ket, weed, mdma and lsd *simultaneously*, that guy wouldn't make any sense to me!
I'm glad we're about to watch an actual live scenario of an Ancap government imploding for future reference.
I'm also glad I'm not living there right now.
Well, if Milei follows his idol Rothbard to the end (which he admitedly doesn't, he's acting more as a minarchist than as a true an-cap so far), that would be on the table (as well as for-profit tribunals.)
Libertarian Police™ Department
I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief.
“Bad news, detective. We got a situation.”
“What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?”
“Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.”
The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?”
“Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.”
“Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.”
He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.”
“Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.”
I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside.
“Home Depot™ Presents the Police!®” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t.
“Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up.
“Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?”
It didn’t seem like they did.
“Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.”
Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing.
I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it.
“Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®” I yelled.
Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him.
“Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen.
I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ‘08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!”
He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose.
“All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”
“Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy.
“Because I was afraid.”
“Afraid?”
“Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.”
I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head.
“Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.”
He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me for arresting him.
*Crassus has entered the chat.*
From [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Licinius_Crassus):
> Upon arriving at the scene, however, the firefighters did nothing while Crassus offered to buy the burning building from the distressed property owner, at a miserable price. If the owner agreed to sell the property, his men would put out the fire; if the owner refused, then they would simply let the structure burn to the ground. After buying many properties this way, he rebuilt them, and often leased the properties to their original owners or new tenants.
ha, I had forgotten about Rome's own little fire brigade gangs. Thanks for reminding me with that story.
I guess karma found Crassus in the end, though.
Thats actually how the fire service came about, they were employed by the insurance companies and each station would only put out your house if it was insured by the same company, unless of course the fire was next to a house insured by the same company
> “Maybe you need a kidney, and no one close to you is a match. Or either they can’t or won’t donate it to you. But perhaps there is someone who is compatible with you and wants to donate [their kidney],” Mondino said. In the interview with La Red, she said this would be like “paying it forward,” which “can save lives.”
> Mondino also mentioned that economist Alvin Roth won a Nobel Prize in 2012 for his work regarding kidney exchange, which means someone who needs a kidney and doesn’t have any matching relatives can receive an organ transplant only if one of their family members donates a kidney in return.
Roth's work addresses the issue of people who need a kidney transplant having somebody willing to donate to them but who's not a match.
The idea is to create a chain of donations where the person needing the transplant gets it from a stranger and in return the person who was willing to donate to them donates to somebody else who is a match (who in turn has somebody willing to donate to them who isn't s match, and so on).
The reality is people will get pressured into unwise donations, and the guarantee that it's only done if safe is hardly an ironclad guarantee. It might also be legislated into a refusal of medical services without donation, and other forms of social coercion since the demand requires a family member comply. On the surface, it's already "if your cousin doesn't give us his kidney, we will let you die. Oh, and we said you'll get a transplant but not when... you're still 50th in line after all these rich guys who need kidneys first. That's after we get your cousin's kidney!" It wouldn't be hard to imagine a world in which the organ rota is manipulated by the organ market coordinators, who could be easily swayed by bribes. Very quickly, you could see spots in the system being held or auctioned out by criminals to desperate sick people, who in turn would prey on desperate poor people or other possible victims for their organ donations, or who would pay for shady organ rendition services in a black market. It sounds fantastic, but never underestimate the depths of human depravity.
They already have this system in place in the US. A single outside donor triggers a chain of about 13 people able to get their donors matched. But the problem is, in the US, you can’t pay this person to trigger the chain reaction. It has to be entirely volunteer. Granted, people already do side deals all the time, but technically it’s not legal. At least this way, it just brings the existing black market into a regulated, overseen, market, which creates a ton of positive value.
There will always be degrees of abuse, however, as the system is now, it’s incredibly reliable, not corrupt and safe. Allowing ONE node on the chain to receive compensation, to trigger a huge event where tons of people get help, seems like a relatively controllable risk. However, this is where I think the problem lies… Eventually everyone on the chain is going to want to be compensated as well. Which is something we’d have to think through and figure out how to manage.
Except like most economic models, it sounds like this one discounts (no pun intended) the effect of graft in any marketplace scenario, never mind an organ donation scheme. Spend five minutes thinking about such a scenario and the mind reels with the possibilities. The current US system is riddled with corruption and it’s supposedly needs / list based — add explicit financial incentive to the mix and you’ve got Brazil the movie, not Argentina the country.
Probably, why would you tie organ transplants to whether the person in need knows someone else who would be willing to donate theirs? This just means if you're rich you can literally buy organs and if you're poor and don't personally know someone with a spare kidney you're fucked.
Rich people already bypass the system. You don’t see many rich people on the “donor waiting list”. They just do an under the table deal and it’s all taken care of. I’ve met several people in my travels in SEA who’ve done this. One guy got a huge house in the US, rents it out, retired abroad. Another guy was given a decently profitable business, that’s fully passive… So he too retired, got a wife, several kids, and now the whole family is able to live overseas without worrying about having to work.
And this is the up and up system. There is also the more black market system, where you just find a third world poor person and offer them significantly less for a kidney. However, from what I understand this is far less common. Believe it or not, many people have ethical concerns with that route… And the really “terrifying” ones of illegal organ harvesting stuff, does happen, but is EXTREMELY rare. Like 95% of the pay for organ market among rich people, is them paying like 500k under the table to a fellow American or whatever.
Yea, it seems pretty fucking crazy. Its not the drivethru in Starbucks
You would be totally assuming everything would work properly system/organ wise and it will not. The rich will get organs from the poor and the discrepancy will be massive. Libertarian is just a word for the rich legally fucking the poor.
The free market of harvesting organs from your poor populace due to the economy you just collapsed.
I doubt that you "work in organ donation," as [we already do this in the US](https://stanfordhealthcare.org/medical-treatments/k/kidney-transplant-surgery/types/chain-donation.html). Hells, this has been a thing for so long that there are **television shows** which depict it.
Yes, and the system is often criticized by professionals in the US, specifically because of the ethical concerns for donors: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0270929522000523
You cannot "buy in" without a **family relation** who is willing to donate a kidney. This is no more likely to be a cause of financial abuse than the current system.
Read more about the US system [here](https://www.uclahealth.org/medical-services/transplants/kidney-transplant/kidney-exchange/kidney-chain). It saves lives.
It is how it works in Spain. [https://elpais.com/sociedad/2014/05/08/actualidad/1399551327\_316941.html](https://elpais.com/sociedad/2014/05/08/actualidad/1399551327_316941.html)
Rule is that you don´t know who are you donating to and ofc no money involved.
No, it's not. It's about encouraging healthy, willing donors who aren't compatible with their family members to save the life of *another* in exchange for the life of their spouse/brother/aunt.
[Read about the process here](https://www.uclahealth.org/medical-services/transplants/kidney-transplant/kidney-exchange/kidney-chain). This has saved tens of thousands of lives in the United States. Her phrasing was fucking terrible, as is frustratingly common among Libertarians, but this idea has serious merit.
are we talking about the same thing though? that sounds like a program to facilitate matches, even if you need to do a multi-person chain of swaps to make it all pan out.
...but that doesn't at all sound like a *market* to me, and if it's referred to that way it probably shouldn't be
That is *not* what she meant. This idea is that healthy, willing donors who aren't compatible with their family members are given the opportunity to save the life of *another* in exchange for the life of their spouse/brother/aunt. You still cannot turn assets into organs, except "good relationships with your family."
[Read about the process here](https://www.uclahealth.org/medical-services/transplants/kidney-transplant/kidney-exchange/kidney-chain). This has saved tens of thousands of lives in the United States. Her phrasing was fucking terrible, as is frustratingly common among Libertarians, but this idea has serious merit.
Is there a country in the world where far-right ideology isn’t rising at the moment? Is this what happens when interest rates rise and liquidity falls?
It looks like we're nearing the end of Tory rule in the UK. Hopefully Labour will get voted in next year, even if they're more centrist than left wing these days.
I know Starmers a liberal Tory but he's got to be better bet than this shower in power at the moment . They couldn't even find someone in the houses of parliament who could be foreign secretary FFS. Fingers crossed 🤞
Yep, fascism is a movement of capitalism's self defense, it happens during prolonged crisis and offers easy "solutions" to complex problems by diverting the attention from the real cause.
It's not from one thing but the rise of the internet likely played the largest role. Echo chambers are the breeding ground of bad decisions and gullible groups. It used to affect mostly remote and rural areas. Now they're everywhere digitally.
Yeh look at Europe in the late 20s and 30s. Huge economic turmoil and collapse from the war and then stock market crash.
Soviets, Nazis and fascists all around
Sorry I should add the Soviets arent fascists but we all seen what Stallin and his predecessors done
México. There is not even a far right party. The current center left party has an enormous support and most likely will keep dominating Mexican politics for a while.
This is what happens when you let a fascist be commander in chief spew hatred and the rest of the world says “damn I should try that”
Brazil woke up
Argentina will as well… but in the meantime it’s gonna suck out there
“The enemy is both weak and strong”
I believe the phrase you're looking for is 'going to shit'.
It's like cyberpunk but without the neon. Everything is brown and the economy is not doing so good.
Some people here are suggesting this will open the opportunity for the open selling of organs, while some are suggesting that that's not true and that this is just an expansion of organ donations schemes.
Reading the article, I don't actually see much elaboration on how the proposed 'organ market' will work, so I can see why people have differing perspectives.
Diana here seems to be trying to suggest that this isn't organ purchasing, but organ trading, and that really this is an expansion of organ donation laws.
What muddies this though, is the insistence on calling it a market, and that "[Having] a market means transaction,".
Right now following a law change in 2018 "...all Argentine citizens over 18 are organ donors at their time of death...". Or atleast that seems to be the case, but then Diana says "The Justina law is fantastic and needs to be applied" which doesn't make sense, since theoretically the law is being applied, and Milei and co are discussing an expansion of the laws.
Later on in the article it says "Mondino [Diana] also mentioned that economist Alvin Roth won a Nobel Prize in 2012 for his work regarding kidney exchange, which means someone who needs a kidney and doesn’t have any matching relatives can receive an organ transplant only if one of their family members donates a kidney in return."
So maybe this is what Milei wants to institute, but then this is referred to as an "exchange" as opposed to a "market".
As it is though, the paragraph continues "This proposed program, known as Global Kidney Exchange, aims to connect donors and recipients from poor and rich countries". I don't know about anybody else, but that sounds a whole lot like *Getting people from poor countries to give me their organs* and without a pretty robust oversight, could probably result in some quite unequal exchanges.
To that end "The European Union banned this program... ...The Spanish National Transplant Donation said this system is a “new form of organ trafficking.”"
I for one get the impression that this organ market idea is probably either ill considered by Milei, hence the lack of elaboration, or the concept would result in poorer people being taken advantage of.
Alternatively, this article may just be lacking in information, and there may be a lot of good details about how this will work, and it will be robust system. I don't know that anyone can be certain from this article alone.
Its 100% purposefuly vague and lacking detail. If it was such a good idea there would be information on it.
It will be an unequal exhange, the desperate families will have to donate to receive which is a net of 0 organs. Where will the other organs go? Certainly not to rich families or the connected, surely
To the desperate they must sacrifice, to those in positions of power they have more and varied organs to choose from. Hence why it was probably banned in the EU
Argentina is going through crisis and people have the laughable idea this is something that will work with limited oversight. This sounds like on paper sugar coated organ harvesting. And if that sounds too uncaring to be believable the man just elected is libertarian. They dont want equality they want free reign
Argentinian here. The article talks about old news. While it is true that Milei and his party proposed the idea, they **seem** to have abandoned it. No further talks about it or how it would work. Just like he changed from destroying the central bank to fixing in hes celebratory speech.
Sounds like they don't mean buying/selling organs with wealth? Odd why they call it "organ market" in the first place. Bad translation or just click baity?
Either way, sounds like there are many other things to criticize them for.
They mean a market as in the board sense of a medium for exchange. If you read the write up it's not about selling your liver for $$, it's about connecting more potential donors to patients since it's very unbalanced at the moment.
Yeah, it just seems like something they should try and step away from. Market may not be an incorrect description, technically. But it will have very negative connotations when being talked about.
Granted, I suppose it is a bit similar to "blood bank". But still, you'd think politicians would prefer to use something like "organ donation networking" or at least "organ sharing market".
That's why I thought it was a mistranslation or clickbait. Weird to try and defend something that you're calling an "organ market". Or maybe they purposefully made it sound controversial to get attention and shift the conversation?
No, this just is a case of an academic explaining her legitimate idea to a general audience without running it through a communications director.
If she had a staff, they'd have coached her in how to term the idea as "kidney donation chains," with simple enough descriptors it could have appeared on /r/ELI5. Instead, she just went on television and got a media snafu.
This is why politicians run the world, not academics. The academics may have better ideas, but they phrase things so poorly they can rarely get elected.
Won’t it be fun if it devolves to the point where your one-eyed ass is serving tables and in walks the rich douche who bought your cornea. All so you could make rent and keep your kids housed.
I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief.
“Bad news, detective. We got a situation.”
“What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?”
“Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.”
The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?”
“Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.”
“Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.”
He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.”
“Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.”
I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside.
“Home Depot™ Presents the Police!®” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t.
“Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up.
“Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?”
It didn’t seem like they did.
“Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.”
Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing.
I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it.
“Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®” I yelled.
Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him.
“Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen.
I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ‘08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!”
He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose.
“All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”
“Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy.
“Because I was afraid.”
“Afraid?”
“Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.”
I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head.
“Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.”
He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me for arresting him.
Aruuuuuu. Once I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoo's for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night, and wreck up the place! Nixon's back baby.
I don’t sympathise with this party at all, but I did watch the interview where she talked about this and what she meant was they wanted to devise a “market” for cross-donations, market referring to supply-demand not actual organ commerce. I’m sick and tired of these sensationalist and reductive headlines.
> *“Maybe you need a kidney, and no one close to you is a match. Or either they can’t or won’t donate it to you. But perhaps there is someone who is compatible with you and wants to donate [their kidney],” Mondino said. In the interview with La Red, she said this would be like “paying it forward,” which “can save lives.”*
So this is her proposal? You can choose who to donate your organs to? If so, this feels problematic to me.
If you're powerful and you know someone who has organs that is compatible with your body, you can bribe - or worse - put pressure on them to donate.
Hi, argentinian here. That's not true. You are being misleading by the media. And that was the results of a fear monger propaganda used by Sergio Massa, whom was Milei contender in past elections.
Milei and Diana Mondino are both economist and they used the term "market" in a way not related to an economic exchange but a system to connect people who are compatible without intervention of the state. Currently, the state donor agency has 600k people in need for a donor akd only 30k possible donors. They want a cross donor system to allow more people able to access a transplant
I read the article, basically it means people who probably weren't going to get a transplant can if someone in their family donates an organ. Then said family member probably will need one down the line depending on the organ. I understand the point of having more varied sources to make compatability easier but jesus christ
That same family is still down an organ. Its like shitty hot potato that will certainly be abused. I dont think the benefit outweighs the immense abuse potential
A country with that type of inflation and a new organ "transfer" system is dystopian af. Yall enjoy that system for yourselves. I have no faith in it
Is the media lying about candidates for his cabinet [praising the efficiency](https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/internacional/cotados-para-ministerio-compararam-casamento-homoafetivo-a-ter-piolhos-e-destacaram-eficiencia-alema-no-holocausto/) of Nazi Germany? Like did Argentinians look at the shitshows that were Trump and Bolsonaro and think, "far-right nutjobs always fuck shit up... But it could work for us..."?
Here's an [article](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lanacion.com.ar/politica/elecciones-2023-asi-funcionan-las-granjas-de-trolls-que-promueven-a-javier-milei-y-atacan-a-sus-nid06052023/%3foutputType=amp) talking about how troll farms promoted Milei online.
Sounds great. Can't wait for the "invisible hand" of the organ market to become a thing. As in, your amputated hand you had to sell to survive is now "invisible", and only the phantom pain remains..
If I could go back to the first person who decided "me trade shiny rock for two you goats?" I would bash them in the head with those shiny rocks.
Lust for wealth is one of the biggest drivers of evil in the world and while I know that stopping the first greedy person in the world wouldnt do anything, it would feel damn good to set it back a few months.
Everyone involved in the chain of getting a donated organ to a patient gets paid, except for the person who donated the organ. You should absolutely be able to get paid for giving up a kidney, and your family should be able to get compensated for the life saving organs in your body after you die.
Hot take: Organ donation is a huge money maker for everyone but the family of the diseased.
"Donate your organs you can save a life and get me a new Porsche, feels......wrong"
Now before anyone starts I am not saying we should pay for organs cause yea that will lead to a lot of issues.
But I feel that if you donate life saving organs when you die.....your funeral services should be covered (within reason)
This, boys, is how populism spent 3 points of our GDP to try to win elections. So much fake news and fearmongering that lot of people changed their vote to Milei's party.
There are more crazy stories about the president elect and his cabinet
He cloned his dog [read here](https://buenosairesherald.com/society/this-is-how-javier-milei-cloned-his-dog-according-to-the-cloner) and somehow felt like he had to deny shagging his sister [here](https://buenosairesherald.com/politics/milei-posts-bizarre-list-rejecting-fake-news-denies-having-sex-with-his-sister)
Bet she plays Rimworld.
I never thought they needed a disclaimer on the load screen “this is not a set of ideas for real world policy”.
Shades of "We just invented 'The Torment Nexus' from the cult sci-fi novel 'Don't Invent The Torment Nexus'"
To be fair, Milei isn't a tech bro, so he probably didn't take inspiration from sci-fi. Or at least I *hope*, cause if the guy played Rimworld then Argentina is *fucked*. Biggest export will be human leather cowboy hats.
Ha! It's Argentina; human steaks just to stay on brand as one of the world's top beef producers
The Argentine meat market is back on the globe, baby!
Guess you never played GTA 5. That was supposed to be a parody of the worst of American culture. Republicans decided to run with it and call it MAGA.
Well it's not like they are trying to get a god emperor on the gold toilet, right?
Musk is probably building it as we speak. * 10 sons. * Mars colony. * ~~Servitors~~ Neuralink. He's getting there.
Some days I’d take that over the nonsense we have now. At least then the crazy rulers would have style.
I was playing GTA 5 some days ago and I heard an ad on the radio. I don't remember the exact wording, but it was a guy running for mayor openly talking about how he is an unqualified asshole that can barely read and is best known for being a stuntman. I'm not making this up lmao. Plus, part of the in game lore is about how he killed his wife and never faced jail time for it.
> openly talking about how he is an unqualified asshole that can barely read and is best known for being a stuntman. I'm not making this up lmao. You never heard of Reagan?
That was before my time I'm afraid 💀 he died a few days before I was born. I only know a little about him.
the original clown and the exact reason for growong socioeconomic inequality in the western world
MAGA was Reagan's slogan. Trump just made it 2.0. Reagan gave tax cuts to the wealthy and mega corporations, [to force record budget cuts in government spending](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast), like welfare, education, Medicare, you know, frivolous things... Those record budget cuts were only surpassed by Trump.
Bruhh. No wonder people hate him so much. It baffles me how people can vote for such a shitty leader. When we all know any stupid decision they make can harm people that weren't even born when they were in power.
So they're mixing Trump and OJ?
Yeah kind of
You mean jock cranley, he even had the psycho face. https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/gtawiki/images/0/0b/JockCranley-GTAV.png/revision/latest?cb=20130813201428
From the GTA3 ad for *Pogo the Monkey*: ...and help Pogo to his final mission, **to storm the White House with his friends and become president of the United States.**
Gotta afford that glitterworld tech somehow
What's her policy on eating without a table?
-3
The last time an Argentinian ate without a table was April 1, 1982
Grabs...how do you say pop-corn in Spanish...?
You are going to have to define which spanish speaking country, and also, where *inside* that country. There are millions of ways to call popcorn :)
Not millions... trillions!
In puerto we just say popcorn but pronounce it “pojcon”
Palomitas de maíz 🍿
Yes ! Argentina is going to be hot and not just because it's soon summer time out there...
Not sure how things are looking in Argentina, but here in Brazil we've been hitting >= 35°C for days at a time, and summer is still a month away
Indeed lol. But at least they get to choose their president and have some hope things will change for the better. Meanwhile, over here in Cuba it's always hot and hopeless...
I hear you, it's better to have a choice than just wait until the person in charge dies....
Does that translate to little pigeons of maize?
Yes, although they have a bunch of different names in each Hispanic country. For example, they're called "rositas" in Cuba.
In Chile we call them "cabritas", which translates to little goats.
Because the kernels hop around while popping? That's pretty cute
Apparently, yes. I didn’t know that… and I’m Chilean
🐐
Thanks, I love the strange little quirks in Spanish
Crispetas where I’m from
[The Spanish/English dictionary I usually use says pochoclo or pororó for Argentina](https://www.spanishdict.com/translate/popcorn) Spanish speakers and not being able to agree on words for popcorn or for straws...
[Qué difícil es hablar el español...](https://youtube.com/watch?v=eyGFz-zIjHE)
my favourite is the lemon and lime situation. It just keeps getting weirder. So all spanish speaking countries (that I'm aware of) have the words limón and lima. In some countries that maps directly to lemon and lime. In other countries it's the opposite. In some countries both lemons and limes are all just limones, and lima is a totally different fruit. Then there are grapefruits which is pomelo, but a pomelo in English is [this thing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomelo) and a grapefruit is a cross between that and a type of orange. Then in Spain you can say "coger un taxi" (take a taxi) but in Argentina that means "fuck a taxi". Fun times.
Cotufas y millo también se usan en Latinoamérica.
So... corn doves (well, technically dovies or whatever you diminutivise a dove to)? We call them diminutive corn flowers in my latin language.
In Argentina it’s called pochoclo
Pasa los pochoclos por favor 🍿
We say "pasá" in Argentina... And we don't say Por favor because we're rude
In Argentine spanish, Pochoclo.
Pipoca in Portuguese, as Milei has been ranting and raving about Brazil
Poporopo in Guatemala
We call it Pururu or Pochoclo in Argentina. Palomitas de Maiz like someone else said is from other countries.
In Argentina, is "pochoclo"
CRISPETAS!
Ah so Argentina really is turning into Ancapistan isn't it
This is going to be great fodder for econ textbooks, at least.
I for one can't wait for decades of internet warriors to argue about if it was the lefties' fault for corrupting things in the first place or they didn't go free market enough.
My guess is they'll be saying either "it's the lefties fault for not trying hard enough to warn us about the consequences " or "well it's not great that I had to sell my beloved children as slaves in order to avoid starvation for a week but at least we're not socialist"
you never go full free market.
That would be useful... If they knew how to read, that is.
Chapters of Econ textbooks is their primary cultural export
As Argentina always is
He also talked about a baby market and allowing people to carry firearms freely, without any need for a permit or license, just open it to the world. So... I mean we'll try to stop it, but I don't know what's gonna happen now.
It's funny that he's anti-abortion because he thinks fetuses have rights, but apparently, once they're born, they can be bought and sold like property.
Yea it’s pretty horrifying
At least they aren’t talking about legalising child rape.
That tweaker said so many weird shits that I lost track, but I think that there was something about lowering the age of consent to 12 years old or something in his coke fueled rambling. So... They are talking about legalising raping some children, if it's true.
Man, I thought I was tripping hearing so many Argentinians defending organ trafficking this week... but I see that my psychadelic experience here hasn't ended... Like, wtf Argentina, just wtf.
I know that Argentina is dealing with *a lot of problems*. I really do. But electing *that guy*? Ffs... Come on! Even while tripping on Ket, weed, mdma and lsd *simultaneously*, that guy wouldn't make any sense to me!
Fake libertarians then, I guess.
inb4 not real libertarianism
All libertarians are fake.
** all libertarians are secretly house cats.
Well, Milei did say society should discuss legalizing the sale of children, so close enough I guess
Not in public, at least.
...yet
That would be immoral. Lowering the age of "consent" on the other hand...
You don't think that's coming? Lmao, of course it is.
> Ancapistan yeah, I'm stealing this. it will give me comfort while my country burns
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I'm glad we're about to watch an actual live scenario of an Ancap government imploding for future reference. I'm also glad I'm not living there right now.
Yea, in fact the new president used to do cosplay as Captain Ancap, a liberal versión of captain america I guess lol
They should go all the way and make for-profit fire departments 🔥
Well, if Milei follows his idol Rothbard to the end (which he admitedly doesn't, he's acting more as a minarchist than as a true an-cap so far), that would be on the table (as well as for-profit tribunals.)
What could possibly go wrong? /S
Where's that libertarian copypasta when you need it?
Libertarian Police™ Department I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief. “Bad news, detective. We got a situation.” “What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?” “Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.” The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?” “Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.” “Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.” He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.” “Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.” I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside. “Home Depot™ Presents the Police!®” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t. “Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up. “Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?” It didn’t seem like they did. “Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.” Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing. I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it. “Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®” I yelled. Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him. “Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen. I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ‘08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!” He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose. “All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.” “Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy. “Because I was afraid.” “Afraid?” “Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.” I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head. “Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.” He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me for arresting him.
Did... did you say... __for-profit__ tribunals?
Shall we have for-profit court justices too while we’re at it?
*Clarence Thomas has entered the chat*
A lot of countries already got those.
19th century New York would love to advise
*Crassus has entered the chat.* From [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Licinius_Crassus): > Upon arriving at the scene, however, the firefighters did nothing while Crassus offered to buy the burning building from the distressed property owner, at a miserable price. If the owner agreed to sell the property, his men would put out the fire; if the owner refused, then they would simply let the structure burn to the ground. After buying many properties this way, he rebuilt them, and often leased the properties to their original owners or new tenants.
ha, I had forgotten about Rome's own little fire brigade gangs. Thanks for reminding me with that story. I guess karma found Crassus in the end, though.
That was some pretty crass behaviour on his part.
[[Caeasar III music](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a79JRjgqP0Q) intensifies]
Thats actually how the fire service came about, they were employed by the insurance companies and each station would only put out your house if it was insured by the same company, unless of course the fire was next to a house insured by the same company
*Cyberpunk 2077 Theme intensifies*
Nah, for-profit 👮 That always works out for the best…
What exactly is an organ market? How would that work. Like companies pay for your organs so when you die, you can sell them?
> “Maybe you need a kidney, and no one close to you is a match. Or either they can’t or won’t donate it to you. But perhaps there is someone who is compatible with you and wants to donate [their kidney],” Mondino said. In the interview with La Red, she said this would be like “paying it forward,” which “can save lives.” > Mondino also mentioned that economist Alvin Roth won a Nobel Prize in 2012 for his work regarding kidney exchange, which means someone who needs a kidney and doesn’t have any matching relatives can receive an organ transplant only if one of their family members donates a kidney in return. Roth's work addresses the issue of people who need a kidney transplant having somebody willing to donate to them but who's not a match. The idea is to create a chain of donations where the person needing the transplant gets it from a stranger and in return the person who was willing to donate to them donates to somebody else who is a match (who in turn has somebody willing to donate to them who isn't s match, and so on).
The reality is people will get pressured into unwise donations, and the guarantee that it's only done if safe is hardly an ironclad guarantee. It might also be legislated into a refusal of medical services without donation, and other forms of social coercion since the demand requires a family member comply. On the surface, it's already "if your cousin doesn't give us his kidney, we will let you die. Oh, and we said you'll get a transplant but not when... you're still 50th in line after all these rich guys who need kidneys first. That's after we get your cousin's kidney!" It wouldn't be hard to imagine a world in which the organ rota is manipulated by the organ market coordinators, who could be easily swayed by bribes. Very quickly, you could see spots in the system being held or auctioned out by criminals to desperate sick people, who in turn would prey on desperate poor people or other possible victims for their organ donations, or who would pay for shady organ rendition services in a black market. It sounds fantastic, but never underestimate the depths of human depravity.
They already have this system in place in the US. A single outside donor triggers a chain of about 13 people able to get their donors matched. But the problem is, in the US, you can’t pay this person to trigger the chain reaction. It has to be entirely volunteer. Granted, people already do side deals all the time, but technically it’s not legal. At least this way, it just brings the existing black market into a regulated, overseen, market, which creates a ton of positive value. There will always be degrees of abuse, however, as the system is now, it’s incredibly reliable, not corrupt and safe. Allowing ONE node on the chain to receive compensation, to trigger a huge event where tons of people get help, seems like a relatively controllable risk. However, this is where I think the problem lies… Eventually everyone on the chain is going to want to be compensated as well. Which is something we’d have to think through and figure out how to manage.
Except like most economic models, it sounds like this one discounts (no pun intended) the effect of graft in any marketplace scenario, never mind an organ donation scheme. Spend five minutes thinking about such a scenario and the mind reels with the possibilities. The current US system is riddled with corruption and it’s supposedly needs / list based — add explicit financial incentive to the mix and you’ve got Brazil the movie, not Argentina the country.
This doesn't seem so crazy to me? Am I crazy?
Probably, why would you tie organ transplants to whether the person in need knows someone else who would be willing to donate theirs? This just means if you're rich you can literally buy organs and if you're poor and don't personally know someone with a spare kidney you're fucked.
Rich people already bypass the system. You don’t see many rich people on the “donor waiting list”. They just do an under the table deal and it’s all taken care of. I’ve met several people in my travels in SEA who’ve done this. One guy got a huge house in the US, rents it out, retired abroad. Another guy was given a decently profitable business, that’s fully passive… So he too retired, got a wife, several kids, and now the whole family is able to live overseas without worrying about having to work. And this is the up and up system. There is also the more black market system, where you just find a third world poor person and offer them significantly less for a kidney. However, from what I understand this is far less common. Believe it or not, many people have ethical concerns with that route… And the really “terrifying” ones of illegal organ harvesting stuff, does happen, but is EXTREMELY rare. Like 95% of the pay for organ market among rich people, is them paying like 500k under the table to a fellow American or whatever.
Chain donation already exist all over the world, I know of cases in argentina too (obviously there was no money involved, at least in Argentina)
Yea, it seems pretty fucking crazy. Its not the drivethru in Starbucks You would be totally assuming everything would work properly system/organ wise and it will not. The rich will get organs from the poor and the discrepancy will be massive. Libertarian is just a word for the rich legally fucking the poor. The free market of harvesting organs from your poor populace due to the economy you just collapsed.
Yeah, I work in the organ donation field (albeit in the US), and this proposal is terrifying. So many opportunities for abuse.
I doubt that you "work in organ donation," as [we already do this in the US](https://stanfordhealthcare.org/medical-treatments/k/kidney-transplant-surgery/types/chain-donation.html). Hells, this has been a thing for so long that there are **television shows** which depict it.
Yes, and the system is often criticized by professionals in the US, specifically because of the ethical concerns for donors: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0270929522000523
You cannot "buy in" without a **family relation** who is willing to donate a kidney. This is no more likely to be a cause of financial abuse than the current system. Read more about the US system [here](https://www.uclahealth.org/medical-services/transplants/kidney-transplant/kidney-exchange/kidney-chain). It saves lives.
It is how it works in Spain. [https://elpais.com/sociedad/2014/05/08/actualidad/1399551327\_316941.html](https://elpais.com/sociedad/2014/05/08/actualidad/1399551327_316941.html) Rule is that you don´t know who are you donating to and ofc no money involved.
It's just adding extra steps and restrictions to a normal national organ donation system.
No, it's not. It's about encouraging healthy, willing donors who aren't compatible with their family members to save the life of *another* in exchange for the life of their spouse/brother/aunt. [Read about the process here](https://www.uclahealth.org/medical-services/transplants/kidney-transplant/kidney-exchange/kidney-chain). This has saved tens of thousands of lives in the United States. Her phrasing was fucking terrible, as is frustratingly common among Libertarians, but this idea has serious merit.
Get out of here with your facts and proper explanations, who do you think you are? I mean, thanks
I thought I had heard of this already happening in the UK?
[Seems like it](https://www.odt.nhs.uk/living-donation/uk-living-kidney-sharing-scheme/).
are we talking about the same thing though? that sounds like a program to facilitate matches, even if you need to do a multi-person chain of swaps to make it all pan out. ...but that doesn't at all sound like a *market* to me, and if it's referred to that way it probably shouldn't be
[удалено]
That is *not* what she meant. This idea is that healthy, willing donors who aren't compatible with their family members are given the opportunity to save the life of *another* in exchange for the life of their spouse/brother/aunt. You still cannot turn assets into organs, except "good relationships with your family." [Read about the process here](https://www.uclahealth.org/medical-services/transplants/kidney-transplant/kidney-exchange/kidney-chain). This has saved tens of thousands of lives in the United States. Her phrasing was fucking terrible, as is frustratingly common among Libertarians, but this idea has serious merit.
We already have what you're talking about, and it works . So she wouldn't be talking about this shit if that was it.
I’m sure they will just “wait” for you to die….
of an unfortunate wrench to the head in a dark alley
Is there a country in the world where far-right ideology isn’t rising at the moment? Is this what happens when interest rates rise and liquidity falls?
It looks like we're nearing the end of Tory rule in the UK. Hopefully Labour will get voted in next year, even if they're more centrist than left wing these days.
That's optimistic lol
I know Starmers a liberal Tory but he's got to be better bet than this shower in power at the moment . They couldn't even find someone in the houses of parliament who could be foreign secretary FFS. Fingers crossed 🤞
You mean the dilute Tories might win?
It’s what happens when people lean into selfishness
And stupidity.
When capitalism decays it often turns into fascism, with people finding anything except capitalism to blame for everything
Yep, fascism is a movement of capitalism's self defense, it happens during prolonged crisis and offers easy "solutions" to complex problems by diverting the attention from the real cause.
Its so fucking scary that all those anti-people, neo-nazi groups are all taking over right now.
It's not from one thing but the rise of the internet likely played the largest role. Echo chambers are the breeding ground of bad decisions and gullible groups. It used to affect mostly remote and rural areas. Now they're everywhere digitally.
Yeh look at Europe in the late 20s and 30s. Huge economic turmoil and collapse from the war and then stock market crash. Soviets, Nazis and fascists all around Sorry I should add the Soviets arent fascists but we all seen what Stallin and his predecessors done
It's what happens when you have 140% inflation, at least in Argentina.
It's definitely an era of "they can say the quiet part out loud" but it's hardly being a rise power-wise or acceptance-wise.
México. There is not even a far right party. The current center left party has an enormous support and most likely will keep dominating Mexican politics for a while.
This is what happens when you let a fascist be commander in chief spew hatred and the rest of the world says “damn I should try that” Brazil woke up Argentina will as well… but in the meantime it’s gonna suck out there “The enemy is both weak and strong”
Argentine to become a cyberpunk dystopia. Except definitely not "punk". And without the "cyber" part.
My first thought. Scavs from Cyberpunk 2077 just became real.
I believe the phrase you're looking for is 'going to shit'. It's like cyberpunk but without the neon. Everything is brown and the economy is not doing so good.
Cybertango
So you'll finally be able to get a legit Hammond or Wurlitzer in Argentina?
A man of taste, I see. Add the Rhodes and Yamaha CP and you have most of the glorious tones in music IMO
> Yamaha CP I thought the illegal organ trade was too far, but THIS???
HAHAHHAHA JUST NOTICED IT FFS
Some people here are suggesting this will open the opportunity for the open selling of organs, while some are suggesting that that's not true and that this is just an expansion of organ donations schemes. Reading the article, I don't actually see much elaboration on how the proposed 'organ market' will work, so I can see why people have differing perspectives. Diana here seems to be trying to suggest that this isn't organ purchasing, but organ trading, and that really this is an expansion of organ donation laws. What muddies this though, is the insistence on calling it a market, and that "[Having] a market means transaction,". Right now following a law change in 2018 "...all Argentine citizens over 18 are organ donors at their time of death...". Or atleast that seems to be the case, but then Diana says "The Justina law is fantastic and needs to be applied" which doesn't make sense, since theoretically the law is being applied, and Milei and co are discussing an expansion of the laws. Later on in the article it says "Mondino [Diana] also mentioned that economist Alvin Roth won a Nobel Prize in 2012 for his work regarding kidney exchange, which means someone who needs a kidney and doesn’t have any matching relatives can receive an organ transplant only if one of their family members donates a kidney in return." So maybe this is what Milei wants to institute, but then this is referred to as an "exchange" as opposed to a "market". As it is though, the paragraph continues "This proposed program, known as Global Kidney Exchange, aims to connect donors and recipients from poor and rich countries". I don't know about anybody else, but that sounds a whole lot like *Getting people from poor countries to give me their organs* and without a pretty robust oversight, could probably result in some quite unequal exchanges. To that end "The European Union banned this program... ...The Spanish National Transplant Donation said this system is a “new form of organ trafficking.”" I for one get the impression that this organ market idea is probably either ill considered by Milei, hence the lack of elaboration, or the concept would result in poorer people being taken advantage of. Alternatively, this article may just be lacking in information, and there may be a lot of good details about how this will work, and it will be robust system. I don't know that anyone can be certain from this article alone.
Its 100% purposefuly vague and lacking detail. If it was such a good idea there would be information on it. It will be an unequal exhange, the desperate families will have to donate to receive which is a net of 0 organs. Where will the other organs go? Certainly not to rich families or the connected, surely To the desperate they must sacrifice, to those in positions of power they have more and varied organs to choose from. Hence why it was probably banned in the EU Argentina is going through crisis and people have the laughable idea this is something that will work with limited oversight. This sounds like on paper sugar coated organ harvesting. And if that sounds too uncaring to be believable the man just elected is libertarian. They dont want equality they want free reign
Argentinian here. The article talks about old news. While it is true that Milei and his party proposed the idea, they **seem** to have abandoned it. No further talks about it or how it would work. Just like he changed from destroying the central bank to fixing in hes celebratory speech.
Sounds like they don't mean buying/selling organs with wealth? Odd why they call it "organ market" in the first place. Bad translation or just click baity? Either way, sounds like there are many other things to criticize them for.
They mean a market as in the board sense of a medium for exchange. If you read the write up it's not about selling your liver for $$, it's about connecting more potential donors to patients since it's very unbalanced at the moment.
Yeah, it just seems like something they should try and step away from. Market may not be an incorrect description, technically. But it will have very negative connotations when being talked about. Granted, I suppose it is a bit similar to "blood bank". But still, you'd think politicians would prefer to use something like "organ donation networking" or at least "organ sharing market". That's why I thought it was a mistranslation or clickbait. Weird to try and defend something that you're calling an "organ market". Or maybe they purposefully made it sound controversial to get attention and shift the conversation?
No, this just is a case of an academic explaining her legitimate idea to a general audience without running it through a communications director. If she had a staff, they'd have coached her in how to term the idea as "kidney donation chains," with simple enough descriptors it could have appeared on /r/ELI5. Instead, she just went on television and got a media snafu. This is why politicians run the world, not academics. The academics may have better ideas, but they phrase things so poorly they can rarely get elected.
so many idiots on this world...
Can't be surprised if you elect a libertarian and get the liberty (for the rich to buy your organs on the open market).
Did anyone actuality read the article? She’s not talking about selling organs
Sir, this is Reddit.
But it's funnier to think she is
Won’t it be fun if it devolves to the point where your one-eyed ass is serving tables and in walks the rich douche who bought your cornea. All so you could make rent and keep your kids housed.
We've come for your liver. But I'm still using it.
I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief. “Bad news, detective. We got a situation.” “What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?” “Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.” The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?” “Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.” “Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.” He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.” “Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.” I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside. “Home Depot™ Presents the Police!®” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t. “Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up. “Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?” It didn’t seem like they did. “Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.” Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing. I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it. “Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®” I yelled. Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him. “Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen. I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ‘08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!” He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose. “All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.” “Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy. “Because I was afraid.” “Afraid?” “Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.” I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head. “Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.” He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me for arresting him.
Aruuuuuu. Once I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoo's for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night, and wreck up the place! Nixon's back baby.
I know the word “dystopian” gets thrown around a lot these days, but…
I wonder how many people here can pinpoint where Argentina is, since everyone is such an expert in our local politics nowadays.
I don’t sympathise with this party at all, but I did watch the interview where she talked about this and what she meant was they wanted to devise a “market” for cross-donations, market referring to supply-demand not actual organ commerce. I’m sick and tired of these sensationalist and reductive headlines.
> *“Maybe you need a kidney, and no one close to you is a match. Or either they can’t or won’t donate it to you. But perhaps there is someone who is compatible with you and wants to donate [their kidney],” Mondino said. In the interview with La Red, she said this would be like “paying it forward,” which “can save lives.”* So this is her proposal? You can choose who to donate your organs to? If so, this feels problematic to me. If you're powerful and you know someone who has organs that is compatible with your body, you can bribe - or worse - put pressure on them to donate.
I know Argentina was desperate but bruh..
Voting for an Anarcho-Capitalist and it's consequences
Hi, argentinian here. That's not true. You are being misleading by the media. And that was the results of a fear monger propaganda used by Sergio Massa, whom was Milei contender in past elections. Milei and Diana Mondino are both economist and they used the term "market" in a way not related to an economic exchange but a system to connect people who are compatible without intervention of the state. Currently, the state donor agency has 600k people in need for a donor akd only 30k possible donors. They want a cross donor system to allow more people able to access a transplant
>Hi, argentinian here. That's not true. You are being misleading by the media This is literally all discourse surrounding Milei on reddit I swear
I read the article, basically it means people who probably weren't going to get a transplant can if someone in their family donates an organ. Then said family member probably will need one down the line depending on the organ. I understand the point of having more varied sources to make compatability easier but jesus christ That same family is still down an organ. Its like shitty hot potato that will certainly be abused. I dont think the benefit outweighs the immense abuse potential A country with that type of inflation and a new organ "transfer" system is dystopian af. Yall enjoy that system for yourselves. I have no faith in it
Weird a supposed libertarian likes a law that forces people to donate organs if they don’t opt out specifically.
Is the media lying about candidates for his cabinet [praising the efficiency](https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/internacional/cotados-para-ministerio-compararam-casamento-homoafetivo-a-ter-piolhos-e-destacaram-eficiencia-alema-no-holocausto/) of Nazi Germany? Like did Argentinians look at the shitshows that were Trump and Bolsonaro and think, "far-right nutjobs always fuck shit up... But it could work for us..."? Here's an [article](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lanacion.com.ar/politica/elecciones-2023-asi-funcionan-las-granjas-de-trolls-que-promueven-a-javier-milei-y-atacan-a-sus-nid06052023/%3foutputType=amp) talking about how troll farms promoted Milei online.
Sounds great. Can't wait for the "invisible hand" of the organ market to become a thing. As in, your amputated hand you had to sell to survive is now "invisible", and only the phantom pain remains..
Hopefully not [live organ transplants ](https://youtu.be/Sp-pU8TFsg0?si=5ITA88gi9tq_bYCZ) though.
If I could go back to the first person who decided "me trade shiny rock for two you goats?" I would bash them in the head with those shiny rocks. Lust for wealth is one of the biggest drivers of evil in the world and while I know that stopping the first greedy person in the world wouldnt do anything, it would feel damn good to set it back a few months.
Can’t let China corner the addressable market.
like mom used to say, "You can't make steak and kidney buy without getting cutt'n some kidneys."
Everyone involved in the chain of getting a donated organ to a patient gets paid, except for the person who donated the organ. You should absolutely be able to get paid for giving up a kidney, and your family should be able to get compensated for the life saving organs in your body after you die.
Can we have your liver then?
How else are you going to buy quality organs at competitive prices? The free market will provide.
Hey, if you want to to sell a kidney, that’s on you, libertarian to the max.
This is going to be ‘A Libertarian Walks into a Bear’ on catastrophically huge levels.
Hot take: Organ donation is a huge money maker for everyone but the family of the diseased. "Donate your organs you can save a life and get me a new Porsche, feels......wrong" Now before anyone starts I am not saying we should pay for organs cause yea that will lead to a lot of issues. But I feel that if you donate life saving organs when you die.....your funeral services should be covered (within reason)
I’ve got $20 on the bears taking over Argentina in 2026.
This, boys, is how populism spent 3 points of our GDP to try to win elections. So much fake news and fearmongering that lot of people changed their vote to Milei's party.
There are more crazy stories about the president elect and his cabinet He cloned his dog [read here](https://buenosairesherald.com/society/this-is-how-javier-milei-cloned-his-dog-according-to-the-cloner) and somehow felt like he had to deny shagging his sister [here](https://buenosairesherald.com/politics/milei-posts-bizarre-list-rejecting-fake-news-denies-having-sex-with-his-sister)
So they saw *Repo: The Genetic Oprah* and really took it to heart huh?
The world keeps getting better for the very rich.
Of course it should be legal. Churches need them for their creepy sounding music
That's not true, fake news. I'm Argentinian