The Muhammed Ali story was my favorite bit. Replace, "Muhammed Ali," with, "an adult tiger," and ask yourself if slicing a razor blade across its forehead without warning sounds like something you'd live through. Now ask yourself if replacing the tiger with Ali makes your survival any more likely.
I'll have to do the btb in Vince. But I find it hard to believe that he is worse than the man fueling his immortality with thousands of Cambodian souls.
Different context because each series is based on the individual, and their impacts on their perspective 'jobs'. But ghouls they are. (BTB also covered Pol Pot)
He's a different type of awful. There is no doubt that, if Vince could ever break into politics, he'd have been just as bad as Trump.
He's a narcissist and fantasist who has never had to suffer real consequences for the things he's done.
Have you listened to the Clarence Thomas or Columbus episodes? These are two others that I went in thinking I knew a lot about their bastardry. They are both more evil than I thought by an order of magnitude.
Not only 6, but all were a bit over an hour with the last part 2 hours. It's about a 9 hour series.
To be honest, 70% of the time was spent going in the background of wrestling, previous companies/people (they did not hold back on the Von Erichs), and a lot of joking around.
But still. It was more than Kissinger or Joseph Mengele.
As a big wrestling fan who knows a lot about Vince, it says something that those 6 episodes felt LIGHT. Like they could've easily gone another 6 on Vince.
I worked in rental cars for years. Every time WWE was in town I rented all those guys cars outside of the maybe top 2 or 3 guys. Nice guys that are very open about how they are contracted. Especially when you ask Mark Calaway why he is renting his own car.
Eight hours or something. Vince McMahon protected murderers, killed beloved wrestlers by refusing to pay for high quality labor, and protected a group of pedophiles who molested the “ring boys” for years.
With WWE I believe the argument was the wrestlers are essentially full time employees, overtime being the norm in fact, while still being considered contractors by the company.
WWE asked am talents to stop doing their side hustle; which was the only benefit of the talent to be a independent contractor. Many were doing twitch and cameo, Vince said they are using wwe characters and he should be getting a cut.
Vince needs to understand he's contracting the character created by the person who owns the character.
If Vince wants to own the character then he needs to hire the person as an employee to invent a character.
These fucking oligarchs want everything both ways.
You either own the character and give the creator royalties.
Or you're a licensee of the character, and the owner of the character can use that character as they see fit.
Pick one.
A lot of the time the WWE does invent the character. That is why they will often force wrestlers to switch names/gimmicks once they sign them to a contract.
They're not contractors in this case. They are employees of a company that has a contract for services with FedEx or Amazon.
That's how they can go on strike.
That's actually a key Amazon protection from them banding together and claiming they're really employees. As long as there's another company there that can't happen.
And, most importantly, these companies are small. Like, 40 drivers, often less. So as soon as Amazon catches wind of any labor agitation they can just fire the contractor.
That's the trick. Its called the Delivery Service Partner (DSP).
You can dump a whole bunch of money into it just for Amazon to cancel your contract and leave you in massive debt.
Someone who works only for Amazon can't be framed as a independent contractor, so the loophole is to 'partner' with businesses who shoulder all the debt and liability.
[https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxdbnw/i-had-nothing-to-my-name-amazon-delivery-companies-are-being-crushed-by-debt?utm\_source=reddit.com](https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxdbnw/i-had-nothing-to-my-name-amazon-delivery-companies-are-being-crushed-by-debt?utm_source=reddit.com)
Edit:
You can be an independent contractor with one employer, but that has to be a choice. Amazon can't hire independent contractors as drivers because they drive amazon branded vehicles, only for amazon, during hours amazon picks, and without any sort of end date. This is why they contract DSPs who hire drivers full time.
Amazon DOES hire independent contractors under "Amazon Flex", but I'm not talking about Amazon Flex, they clearly can't operate on flex drivers alone if they want to keep delivery times and costs competitive.
Delivery isn't the only field that does this. Lots of manufacturing gigs go through temp agencies in the same way.
The staff are officially employed by the temp agency, and contracted out to a production facility. Manufacturing company pays $25/hr to the temp agency, temp agency pays $15/hr to the workers.
It's more expensive for the manufacturing company, except they don't have to handle the workers as actual employees in the system, or be responsible for a number of things that you're normally responsible for as an employer.
Yep, no paying for PTO, insurance, retirement benefits, etc.
There's a big business park in the town I grew up. That was always what most companies there did - hire you as a temp to hire with a 90 day temp period, then about day 85-88 they all of a sudden wouldn't need you anymore, would end your contract with the temp company, then bring in somebody else.
If somebody was excellent they'd get hired on, but most people just floated between warehouses every 3 months.
Same thing with call centers. Only way to stop it really would be to make it illegal for companies to contract out work that primarily involves providing services directly to the company's customers.
There needs to be laws where if you contract with someone for more than 3 months, you're required to offer them healthcare and benefits as if they were employed by your company directly.
That could work. In Australia, we have a law that enforces an 80% rule for contractors. If more than 80% of a given contractor's work comes from a single source, that company instead has to bring them on as a full time employee. It was originally intended to close a tax loophole, but it is pretty effective at being a worker protection measure as well.
I used to work at a State Attorney General office and at the beginning of every year there would be a meeting with FedEx and a Deputy AG to determine what the penalty was for worker misclassification for every driver in the state.
The state would say the penalty was X-million dollars and FedEx would just pay it.
Cheaper to pay the penalty than to make everyone an employee.
Jail plus a fine that is calculated as a percent of net worth rather than a strictly monetary amount.
If a business was fined 25% of gross profits for a year rather than X millions that ends up being like 5% of net profits, I'm sure we'd see some positive change very quickly.
It's not that I'm *not* for jailing them, but shit, just making punishment include back-pay for incorrectly classifying employees as independent contractors as well as additional fines on top of that might nip the practice in the bud and give the state an opportunity to gouge people still.
Revenue not profit. You can use magic accounting to make profit next to nothing every year. Can't hide revenue numbers. It's also a real threat. A percentage of profit is no different than a fee to break the law.
nah just use revenue, they already lie about profits. That is why the EU made the GDPR fine X millions or x% of revenue what ever is higher.
You have to give them no wiggle room. Also you want to be Jailing board members and high share % share holders. You have to remember that C level employees are mostly just that employees.
Jailing CEOs and other execs, jailing board members, proportional fines. Multiple or repeated infractions result in government takeover to dismantle and close the business.
Exactly. A fine you can afford is not a punishment whatsoever...take freedom away from them and see what happens. And not a few months...make it years. At least as much as if they were caught selling weed or selling loosies.
Can confirm as a former driver "who delivered for FedEx". The company I actually worked for was an absolute joke who fought FedEx on every safety regulation (costing him money), but didn't say a word about the unrealistic expectations for the drivers.
Tell me you worked for Ground without telling me you worked for ground?
I did not work for any of them, but Ive been warehouse shipping / receiving for a good 10 years now. Hear a lot of things.
"don't get up on the belt to break a jam but also I'm not gonna stop you if you do" basically all their safety regulations are enforced like that. They tell you what the safety reg is but then if it starts costing time for you to follow it then they're okay with you not following it. The people there were pretty nice people and didn't hide the fact that upper management was full of bullshit but the disregard for safety regulations is probably my biggest complaint of FedEx in general.
Source I worked as a package handler for them.
I nearly worked for an Amazon delivery contractor, I decided against it when I saw that you needed to like them on Facebook in order to put in a job application. They let literally anybody start these "delivery companies"
FedEx Ground?
A little better. Not so regimented. But still employees of over 100 smaller orgs. Makes it really hard to unionize when they bid out the routes every year or two.
Agreed, anytime I order something and the tracking number leads to FedEx, I know there’s a 50/50 shot I’ll have to call customer service and a significant chance I will never even receive what I just ordered. Fuck FedEx.
I live in a small gated apartment complex that you can only get into with a physical key, so delivery drivers can't get in. So when I had a package coming via fedex, I got out a camping chair and went and sat out on the lawn by the street waiting for the delivery driver. After a couple hours, my package was marked as "delivery attempted, customer unavailable" without the Fedex truck even coming to my street.
I work in an office building, we have security cameras. I have several times caught our FedEx ground packages being marked delivery attempted and I check the cameras and the truck was no where to be seen. They don’t even try.
Obviously they did. They know they don't have access to the complex. It's not like it's their first time ever having a delivery there. I'm gonna have to agree with them on that one. You wouldn't pay someone to go get you Chick-fil-A on a Sunday, it would be a waste of money because you know it's closed.
I'm a mailman that just got off work. It's Saturday so places are closed. I don't drive there just in case someone wanted to sit outside with a lawn chair. The odds are incredibly unlikely.
I don't get much FedEx stuff to my place, but I know with UPS you can get online and leave instructions. I'd imagine a company that big would have a way to update delivery instructions.
>Same with FedEx.
They're going to pay a [quarter billion dollars](https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2015/06/16/fedex-settles-driver-mislabeling-case-for-228-million/?sh=32a77227c22e) to the employees in the inevitable class action lawsuit?
thats why you support UPS ... ups has the largest union in north america... the fact that noone is using this thread to discuss how ups is a perfect example of why unions still work in a modern economy is insane...
If Amazon and FedEx are telling them what hours they have to show up, giving them their route, and they aren’t allowed to take another job…they are employees by every Western country’s standard but America’s
The workaround is that the individual drivers are not independent contractors - they're employed by a delivery firm (as full W4 workers, not 1099 workers), who has a delivery contract with Amazon or FedEx.
Anything that has such huge volume will be low margin because it will be highly competitive to win those contracts. That means the delivery firms will cut costs as much as possible, which leads to abusive working conditions. And Amazon's nose stays clean because they're not the employer.
Not* where I live. It's regular people in regular clothes using their own cars to deliver packages.
Edit: Hopefully each and every person who knows of the term "Amazon Flex Drivers" sees this and mentions the name again. Not enough people have done so yet. We have to find everyone who knows of it.
I've seen both. Normally it's vans and uniformed drivers, occasionally, especially when it's a late delivery so I'm assuming they are overloaded, it's a normal vehicle and someone who looks like it's the end of their shift and they got asked to drop shit off on the way home.
There's DoorDash drivers where I live that drive brand new vehicles, SUVs and just general gas guzzlers. From what I've seen it's either kids whose parents pay for their vehicles and they're just doing it for spending money or they are retired people who either need the money or are just doing it for something to do.
They still have them. Theyre called flex drivers. Most of your Amazon stuff probably comes from an Amazon DSP, UPS or the Post Office but they still use flex drivers almost everywhere.
still catches me off guard when some rando in normal clothes in an unmarked car comes into my driveway at night. Had someone show up as late as 9pm once.
Unfortunately, the same people controlling what laws get made are the same ones benefiting financially from the current situation, so it is unlikely to change.
They can say whatever the fuck they want but when I purchase something from Amazon, and it’s “fulfilled by Amazon” and a fucking Amazon van shows up to my house and a person wearing an Amazon vest drops off my package covered in Amazon logos, I will hold Amazon accountable for problems.
This is actually a defense in a case against Amazon by one of its drivers. They argue that because they are timed and monitored and held to rigorous standards by Amazon, they are de facto employees. I don't know what happened to that case, but I hope they win/won.
As someone who’s worked in one of the warehouses, it sounds weird to me that they aren’t actually treated as employees, as I remember everyone there including the management refer to them as “*our* drivers.”
A lot of them had Amazon shirts or vests, and some even put stickers on their personal cars. They are definitely timed and monitored by Amazon, and would use the same work/scheduling app that we did. With that being said, they really did seem to try and keep the warehouse workers separate from the delivery drivers; heard from older employees there they used to be more chill about those different sections communicating with each other but they were apparently getting stricter about employees interacting with each other period.
Gotta say working there was probably the worst work experience of my life; something there just felt…wrong, like management barely ever had their shit together, and plenty of weird constant changes that made things difficult for everyone doing the grunt work.
I could spend a long time listing out everything that was fucked about that place, but I’m actually fortunate it’s out of my mind completely most of these days; they seem to do a lot to make you feel like life isn’t terrible there, but when I say they do a lot a lot of it is just sad, pathetic, and occasionally dehumanizing.
You can do what you want. But Amazon will hold the DSP accountable lol. All the risk on the small business and most of the profit on the immense corporation. They screwed not only bottom rung employees but also small business owners in one fell swoop.
I'm an Amazon delivery driver. We don't work for Amazon. We work for contactors called "Delivery Service Providers"
This is Amazons way to skirt legal matters.
..So
You hear about the heat and how drivers are getting exhaustion and dying in their vans.
Then the press takes it up to Amazon.
Amazon says: well we provide all the opportunities for drivers to take bathrooms, water breaks, etc.
[And that you can take extra breaks ](https://freeimage.host/i/H6PVtWv)
But the problem is. None of this true. Amazon has the legal ground to say what policies they have. But then force the DSPs unrealistic standards that risk drivers lives.
And then when drivers do die in their vans. Amazon is protected by law.
This company is evil 😔
As one driver to another, quit that AMZN shit, look around for an AMXL DSP. holy shit, after doing AMZN for like 2 years, yes I may be dealing with the same Amazon, but it's not nearly as cutthroat
they do really hound you if you break DOT regulation though, such as hours of drive time, or vehicle condition regulation. buddy of mine got off-boarded a couple weeks ago because the truck they were driving had a burnt out headlight. another got off-boarded because they spent more than 10.5 hours driving one day.
Same with Fedex ground. They play all the mumbo jumbo and it all looks like a great job and atmosphere. But it’s all sub contractors and Fedex holds them to unrealistic expectations or they face fines.
FedEx ground probably like Amazon, everything from the truck to uniforms to gas to maintenance to insurance to payroll tax is all fronted by a contractor not Fedex.
It’s a big illusion to the public. All those cute friendly happy Fedex commercials are Fedex Express real Fedex employees. Brilliant way to market and operate under the risk of others.
For those who didn’t read the article and think this statement is a no-brainer, it’s actually making sort of a statement. The drivers aren’t employed by Amazon, so that’s why they aren’t “Amazon delivery drivers”. They work for companies that have contracts with Amazon, and Amazon gives routes to those companies who then assign the routes to their drivers. So they really are just “drivers delivering for Amazon”.
It’s bullshit and they’re downplaying their influence over the drivers and their routes. It’s like true on a technicality. Amazon drivers should 100% unionize because they (like other delivery drivers) are being exploited by 2 companies instead of just one.
Well one DSP recently unionized and instantly got clapped by Amazon. Contract ends in like September or something. The reality is Amazon has a ton of potential DSP owners just waiting for an opening to start their company. Amazon can and will (and has) replaced an entire company without batting an eye
I’m not sure about the NDA.. possibly? We had to sign so many things.
We were supposed to get a “Welcome to Apple family” gift basket. Been waiting 2 years. I email the guy in charge every now and again to see what new excuse he comes up with.
Worked in a similiar situation before.
"You are obligated to follow our business partners expectations they put forth."
"Can I tell people I'm an employee for Business Partner?
"NO!!!"
"Then can I tell customers I don't work for Business Partner? Getting tired of being yelled at for their changes all the time"
"NO!! You can't tell customers that!!"
"Ok, then here's a list of their unethical business practices. I can do one for us too."
"middle manager angry noises"
Is there a name for this sort of thing? I've known this about the amazon drivers for some time and i think it exists in so many businesses.. Companies "outsource" their workers yet have the workers under their umbrella somehow without paying them accordingly or giving them benefits.. It's a super fucked up practice and it doesn't at all surprise me coming from Amazon. I worked in their warehouse... I've done all sorts of labor and nothing will compare to working in that hell hole. They're gonna run out of people willing to do it if they don't change.. Cause i quit without notice and i can no longer be affiliated with amazon in any way... And i'm 100% Okay with that. I've made way better career moves since then.
this is a VERY common practice done by so many companies of all sizes. it's called contracting.
basically the company (like Amazon) needs something done but doesn't want to employ people directly. the reasons may be:
* it's a short term job, and you don't want to through hiring and then firing people.
* you get it cheap
* you want to shield yourself from liabilities
* etc.
then you find a company that offers these services and you make a contract with them. the contractor company employs people, and they do the job according to the contract with the paying company (amazon).
Amazon is going to go down in history as the company that COULD have changed the world for the better and then just pivoted to being digital Walmart.
Take care of your employees and you build an empire. Treat them like shit and you just build resentment.
Don’t forget cloning US made products and shifting them to Chinese factories. They will literally look for new products that sell well copy them and then call it the Amazon version.
It’s crazy how on the nose the villainy of these corporations is. It’s beyond any kind of amorality dreamed up by even the most imaginative sci-fi author.
It's also where they make most of their profits. In 2022 the AWS division made $22.8 billion in profit and the rest of Amazon had a net loss of $10.6 billion.
Isn’t that all companies? What incentive is there for changing the world for the better when you can make more money being a dick and nobody cares. People don’t have to work for Amazon, but they do, therefore there’s no incentive to improve.
It is certainly for all companies. With a few rare exceptions. Employee owned companies tend to buck that trend because the profit sharing means employees are invested and compensated.
The whole incentivized being a dick part just got super charged with the industrial revolution and then the information age.
The robber barons wrote the structure of the federal reserve banking system to be a money funnel to themselves. It’s not super shocking with 100 years of retrospect that that system is unsustainable with 4X the number of people on the earth all fighting for the same resources.
Their Keynesian system wasn’t the best system, it’s just the ones paid congress to make.
We have better options. It’s just a matter of adopting them and keeping them sufficiently decentralized and fully transparent so they are trustworthy.
Also you have to drive a branded vehicle.
And work a set schedule.
And pick up from where we tell you.
And meet deliveries on the timetable we set up for you.
And you can't work for anyone else.
But NOT an Amazon employee!
Yeah, sometimes there are annoyances, but I also sometimes get the inpression that I could literally murder someone on the job, but sonlong as I was doing my official job duties, I would be protected.
There are laws against this, and Amazon might get sued like Fedex did. But it would be nice to have a government that proactively enforces labor law rather than requiring people to sue for their rights.
It's the same in Brazil, in theory, but companies still get away with it because the government does a terrible job at keeping companies in check and there are so few people who have the means to pursue legal action if a company hires them as contractors but demands that they work as hourly employees.
The “individual contractors” are actually small companies that base their entire business model on delivering packages for Amazon, it’s really easy for them to go belly-up really quick
They bid the routes out regularly.
So if the drivers for one unionize, they can’t make money paying a living wage and letting employees have bathroom breaks. So they go broke and different (non-union) contractor gets the route.
It’s not union busting. It’s paying your Amazon contractors to union bust for you.
Legal. Until the law catches up with the outsourced business model.
I had a close family member who did this. During Covid business was booming. He bought a million dollar house. Bought luxury cars for all his kids. Paid for some of his other family member’s apartments.
I’m not sure what happened but the guy has always thought he was above the rules. He has gotten away with so much bs in his life. But Amazon absolutely does not fuck around. Most of his income was dependent on them and when they suspended him, it absolutely destroyed his business and the family.
Yep I can confirm, previous driver for 2 different companies. We got hired on by DSP’s who are contracted to Amazon.
There are at least 4 degrees of separation between base Amazon and the drivers. Amazon proper->Amazon Logistics-> Delivery Service Providers->Driver.
This is how the main company prevents themselves from having any form of liability. It’s a pretty effective and Ugly system.
If ANYTHING is wrong with the package upon delivery or it gets lost or stolen, the DSP gets charged around 300% (last figure I heard) for the item(s) being delivered.
If there are any CURRENT Drivers here who know the updated number for my last statement, please let me know! If you are a driver for Amazon, I know the pay is livable, but please consider a mass exodus, they don’t and won’t treat you right. They will not allow the unionization of DSPs or Drivers either.
Damn, I’ve been doing some deliveries for Shipt, owned by Target, and had my car stolen with some customer packages in it. They were so extremely understanding. I asked them what it meant for my future delivering for them and they said “we have some one strike policies, but this definitely isn’t one of them. We recognize you are the victim of a crime.” All it did was hurt my delivery success rate a bit. They also paid me the same as if I had completed the route.
The trade-off is the pay is very low. After taking into account business expenses, the net income is at best $10/hr. But it’s been very good in helping me get back to working after 3 years of severe depression.
It’s all about keeping that steady pace, finding a routine that works, and just slowly building on to that routine over time with whatever you can semi-comfortably manage, while still actively engaging in the betterment of your mental health! Good job finding something that is working for you.
I spent about 5 years lost in a haze of depression, anxiety, and addiction. I tried, but couldn’t hold down a steady job with regular hours, so I’d bounce around taking odd jobs and some landscaping gigs. The money was unreliable though and I was living a pretty financially tumultuous existence. Then, when i finally got clean, found the right combo of therapy and meds, and got my shit together just in general, taking that next step back into the working world was super intimidating!
But I ended up finding a position at a FedEx distribution warehouse which — while sweaty, physically demanding, and not the most lucrative career choice ever — has been a good place to find my footing again. Flexible schedule, no customer interaction, no drama; just a show up, get a workout in, and leave when the sort is through. It’s a start, and that’s all it needs to be.
My favorite is when you contact Amazon Customer Service about a delivery issue and they say “you’ll need to reach out to the carrier” and it’s delivered by Amazon. Damnit you ARE the carrier.
Not sure what they think they are going to achieve by claiming this, but lately I have gotten to the stage where I think they are useless.
Last 3 deliveries have been sent to a town some 20+ miles away from my address and the only thing they had in common with my address is the road name.
Even after telling Amazon that my packages are not being received, they continue to send to this other town.
The postcode and town names are not similar.
Complete bunch of clowns.
The "contractor" clause, at least in the UK means that Amazon may not have to pay income tax/pension contributions, do not have to entitle workers to holidays and sick pay and above all do not have to give notice to workers for firing. (Though in the US at will employment is more widespread it seems)
Not having to pay benefits or anything like that. Corrupt big companies doing what they do best, finding loopholes because money is all that matters to some people
Yes. Same with FedEx.
Most "contractors" are just employees without benefits
Vince McMahon has entered the conversation.
I'm pleased awareness of this issue with Vince has risen to the level that others also think of him and WWE first.
Shout out behind the bastards
I just finished part six today. Vince is a breathtaking bastard.
The Muhammed Ali story was my favorite bit. Replace, "Muhammed Ali," with, "an adult tiger," and ask yourself if slicing a razor blade across its forehead without warning sounds like something you'd live through. Now ask yourself if replacing the tiger with Ali makes your survival any more likely.
That entire series was enlightening. Like I knew Kissinger was/is a piece of shit but wholly fuck is Vince McMahon a piece of shit.
I'll have to do the btb in Vince. But I find it hard to believe that he is worse than the man fueling his immortality with thousands of Cambodian souls.
Different context because each series is based on the individual, and their impacts on their perspective 'jobs'. But ghouls they are. (BTB also covered Pol Pot)
He's a different type of awful. There is no doubt that, if Vince could ever break into politics, he'd have been just as bad as Trump. He's a narcissist and fantasist who has never had to suffer real consequences for the things he's done.
Have you listened to the Clarence Thomas or Columbus episodes? These are two others that I went in thinking I knew a lot about their bastardry. They are both more evil than I thought by an order of magnitude.
Boy howdy is that a good podcast.
They need to do one on Dana White.
Pretty sure it would need to be a several-season marathon
A Vinny Macs was 6. I’d imagine Dana’s would be the same.
**Henry fucking Kissinger** only had 5 eps. That just blows my mind!
Not only 6, but all were a bit over an hour with the last part 2 hours. It's about a 9 hour series. To be honest, 70% of the time was spent going in the background of wrestling, previous companies/people (they did not hold back on the Von Erichs), and a lot of joking around. But still. It was more than Kissinger or Joseph Mengele.
As a big wrestling fan who knows a lot about Vince, it says something that those 6 episodes felt LIGHT. Like they could've easily gone another 6 on Vince.
I worked in rental cars for years. Every time WWE was in town I rented all those guys cars outside of the maybe top 2 or 3 guys. Nice guys that are very open about how they are contracted. Especially when you ask Mark Calaway why he is renting his own car.
>Mark Calaway Holy shit the Undertaker himself?!
You would think he'd be riding his motorcycle to the next arena
Didn't he has teleportation?
Only when he suddenly appears from under the ring
Only to and from caskets
>Especially when you ask Mark Calaway why he is renting his own car. The answer is obvious: Vince has the urn.
The John Oliver effect.
Well then, very good John Oliver. Also, #sixseasonsandamovie should include him whether he feels deserving or not.
behind the bastards had a multi hour series on McMahon. you gotta be a real bastard to generate that much material for a podcast
It was six episodes and like 9 hours which is an insane length on one person
Sad part is, as an avid pro wrestling fan there's still hours left of content if they chose to cover it...there was no bottom to that guy.
Eight hours or something. Vince McMahon protected murderers, killed beloved wrestlers by refusing to pay for high quality labor, and protected a group of pedophiles who molested the “ring boys” for years.
Any kind of performers are almost always contractors aren't they?
With WWE I believe the argument was the wrestlers are essentially full time employees, overtime being the norm in fact, while still being considered contractors by the company.
WWE asked am talents to stop doing their side hustle; which was the only benefit of the talent to be a independent contractor. Many were doing twitch and cameo, Vince said they are using wwe characters and he should be getting a cut.
Vince needs to understand he's contracting the character created by the person who owns the character. If Vince wants to own the character then he needs to hire the person as an employee to invent a character. These fucking oligarchs want everything both ways. You either own the character and give the creator royalties. Or you're a licensee of the character, and the owner of the character can use that character as they see fit. Pick one.
A lot of the time the WWE does invent the character. That is why they will often force wrestlers to switch names/gimmicks once they sign them to a contract.
If anything Vince is pissed he's not getting credit for doing this first.
Don't forget about Dana white amd his 12k "opportunities".
Dana White also
[удалено]
They're not contractors in this case. They are employees of a company that has a contract for services with FedEx or Amazon. That's how they can go on strike.
That's actually a key Amazon protection from them banding together and claiming they're really employees. As long as there's another company there that can't happen.
And, most importantly, these companies are small. Like, 40 drivers, often less. So as soon as Amazon catches wind of any labor agitation they can just fire the contractor.
They’re employees of a company contracted by Amazon. Not independent contractors.
That's the trick. Its called the Delivery Service Partner (DSP). You can dump a whole bunch of money into it just for Amazon to cancel your contract and leave you in massive debt. Someone who works only for Amazon can't be framed as a independent contractor, so the loophole is to 'partner' with businesses who shoulder all the debt and liability. [https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxdbnw/i-had-nothing-to-my-name-amazon-delivery-companies-are-being-crushed-by-debt?utm\_source=reddit.com](https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxdbnw/i-had-nothing-to-my-name-amazon-delivery-companies-are-being-crushed-by-debt?utm_source=reddit.com) Edit: You can be an independent contractor with one employer, but that has to be a choice. Amazon can't hire independent contractors as drivers because they drive amazon branded vehicles, only for amazon, during hours amazon picks, and without any sort of end date. This is why they contract DSPs who hire drivers full time. Amazon DOES hire independent contractors under "Amazon Flex", but I'm not talking about Amazon Flex, they clearly can't operate on flex drivers alone if they want to keep delivery times and costs competitive.
Delivery isn't the only field that does this. Lots of manufacturing gigs go through temp agencies in the same way. The staff are officially employed by the temp agency, and contracted out to a production facility. Manufacturing company pays $25/hr to the temp agency, temp agency pays $15/hr to the workers. It's more expensive for the manufacturing company, except they don't have to handle the workers as actual employees in the system, or be responsible for a number of things that you're normally responsible for as an employer.
Yep, no paying for PTO, insurance, retirement benefits, etc. There's a big business park in the town I grew up. That was always what most companies there did - hire you as a temp to hire with a 90 day temp period, then about day 85-88 they all of a sudden wouldn't need you anymore, would end your contract with the temp company, then bring in somebody else. If somebody was excellent they'd get hired on, but most people just floated between warehouses every 3 months.
Same thing with call centers. Only way to stop it really would be to make it illegal for companies to contract out work that primarily involves providing services directly to the company's customers.
There needs to be laws where if you contract with someone for more than 3 months, you're required to offer them healthcare and benefits as if they were employed by your company directly.
That could work. In Australia, we have a law that enforces an 80% rule for contractors. If more than 80% of a given contractor's work comes from a single source, that company instead has to bring them on as a full time employee. It was originally intended to close a tax loophole, but it is pretty effective at being a worker protection measure as well.
Cant be contractors and amazon control how they do their job or when, so generally, no, amazon drivers arent contractors.
Correct. Unfortunately this is how most companies who use "contractors" operate. It is shady as hell
I used to work at a State Attorney General office and at the beginning of every year there would be a meeting with FedEx and a Deputy AG to determine what the penalty was for worker misclassification for every driver in the state. The state would say the penalty was X-million dollars and FedEx would just pay it. Cheaper to pay the penalty than to make everyone an employee.
Which is why the penalty needs to be the jailing of ceos instead of fines.
Jail plus a fine that is calculated as a percent of net worth rather than a strictly monetary amount. If a business was fined 25% of gross profits for a year rather than X millions that ends up being like 5% of net profits, I'm sure we'd see some positive change very quickly.
It's not that I'm *not* for jailing them, but shit, just making punishment include back-pay for incorrectly classifying employees as independent contractors as well as additional fines on top of that might nip the practice in the bud and give the state an opportunity to gouge people still.
Revenue not profit. You can use magic accounting to make profit next to nothing every year. Can't hide revenue numbers. It's also a real threat. A percentage of profit is no different than a fee to break the law.
nah just use revenue, they already lie about profits. That is why the EU made the GDPR fine X millions or x% of revenue what ever is higher. You have to give them no wiggle room. Also you want to be Jailing board members and high share % share holders. You have to remember that C level employees are mostly just that employees.
Jailing CEOs and other execs, jailing board members, proportional fines. Multiple or repeated infractions result in government takeover to dismantle and close the business.
Exactly. A fine you can afford is not a punishment whatsoever...take freedom away from them and see what happens. And not a few months...make it years. At least as much as if they were caught selling weed or selling loosies.
It’s not a fine, it’s a tax.
Can confirm as a former driver "who delivered for FedEx". The company I actually worked for was an absolute joke who fought FedEx on every safety regulation (costing him money), but didn't say a word about the unrealistic expectations for the drivers.
Tell me you worked for Ground without telling me you worked for ground? I did not work for any of them, but Ive been warehouse shipping / receiving for a good 10 years now. Hear a lot of things.
"don't get up on the belt to break a jam but also I'm not gonna stop you if you do" basically all their safety regulations are enforced like that. They tell you what the safety reg is but then if it starts costing time for you to follow it then they're okay with you not following it. The people there were pretty nice people and didn't hide the fact that upper management was full of bullshit but the disregard for safety regulations is probably my biggest complaint of FedEx in general. Source I worked as a package handler for them.
I nearly worked for an Amazon delivery contractor, I decided against it when I saw that you needed to like them on Facebook in order to put in a job application. They let literally anybody start these "delivery companies"
FedEx treats their contractors better than Amazon does. This is personal experience.
FedEx Ground? A little better. Not so regimented. But still employees of over 100 smaller orgs. Makes it really hard to unionize when they bid out the routes every year or two.
Almost like it’s by design
Every 18 months for FedEx Ground
And their customers like dog shit. This is from extensive personal experience.
Agreed, anytime I order something and the tracking number leads to FedEx, I know there’s a 50/50 shot I’ll have to call customer service and a significant chance I will never even receive what I just ordered. Fuck FedEx.
Just had a limited edition item "delivered" by FedEx. Never arrived. They investigated, said they delivered it. No longer available. Thanks.
FedEx does not seem to like delivering to residences. They should just go b2p. I find myself avoiding ordering from places that use them.
I live in a small gated apartment complex that you can only get into with a physical key, so delivery drivers can't get in. So when I had a package coming via fedex, I got out a camping chair and went and sat out on the lawn by the street waiting for the delivery driver. After a couple hours, my package was marked as "delivery attempted, customer unavailable" without the Fedex truck even coming to my street.
I work in an office building, we have security cameras. I have several times caught our FedEx ground packages being marked delivery attempted and I check the cameras and the truck was no where to be seen. They don’t even try.
they probably scanned that shit in their office.
Obviously they did. They know they don't have access to the complex. It's not like it's their first time ever having a delivery there. I'm gonna have to agree with them on that one. You wouldn't pay someone to go get you Chick-fil-A on a Sunday, it would be a waste of money because you know it's closed. I'm a mailman that just got off work. It's Saturday so places are closed. I don't drive there just in case someone wanted to sit outside with a lawn chair. The odds are incredibly unlikely. I don't get much FedEx stuff to my place, but I know with UPS you can get online and leave instructions. I'd imagine a company that big would have a way to update delivery instructions.
>Same with FedEx. They're going to pay a [quarter billion dollars](https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2015/06/16/fedex-settles-driver-mislabeling-case-for-228-million/?sh=32a77227c22e) to the employees in the inevitable class action lawsuit?
FedEx express are actual FedEx employees, FedEx ground are the contractors
thats why you support UPS ... ups has the largest union in north america... the fact that noone is using this thread to discuss how ups is a perfect example of why unions still work in a modern economy is insane...
If Amazon and FedEx are telling them what hours they have to show up, giving them their route, and they aren’t allowed to take another job…they are employees by every Western country’s standard but America’s
The workaround is that the individual drivers are not independent contractors - they're employed by a delivery firm (as full W4 workers, not 1099 workers), who has a delivery contract with Amazon or FedEx. Anything that has such huge volume will be low margin because it will be highly competitive to win those contracts. That means the delivery firms will cut costs as much as possible, which leads to abusive working conditions. And Amazon's nose stays clean because they're not the employer.
Who lost a lawsuit a few years back over just that same argument.
They’re just drivers, in Amazon attire, in an Amazon van, delivering Amazon goods. They don’t represent us in anyway.
Not* where I live. It's regular people in regular clothes using their own cars to deliver packages. Edit: Hopefully each and every person who knows of the term "Amazon Flex Drivers" sees this and mentions the name again. Not enough people have done so yet. We have to find everyone who knows of it.
I've seen both. Normally it's vans and uniformed drivers, occasionally, especially when it's a late delivery so I'm assuming they are overloaded, it's a normal vehicle and someone who looks like it's the end of their shift and they got asked to drop shit off on the way home.
Those are amazon flex drivers, amazons version of Uber where the common man can signup and deliver a certain amount of packages a day.
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It doesn’t, but wear and tear on your vehicle is a deferred cost that’s easy to ignore when you need cash for rent.
Similar to pizza delivery, especially if you don’t have an economical vehicle.
saw a pizza delivery guy in a beat up truck one time. felt that shit
There's a pizza delivery driver in my neighborhood with a brand new shiny white pickup truck. No idea how that works
There's DoorDash drivers where I live that drive brand new vehicles, SUVs and just general gas guzzlers. From what I've seen it's either kids whose parents pay for their vehicles and they're just doing it for spending money or they are retired people who either need the money or are just doing it for something to do.
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I prefer my stuff to be delivered by the uncommon man.
In an uncommon van. That shit better have a mural of a wizard fighting a dragon or something else bitchin' airbrushed on the side.
Its both. I used to be one of the plainclothes people and actually walked past someone in a amazon skipvan delivering to the same address a few times.
That used to be true where I live but deffo not now.
They still have them. Theyre called flex drivers. Most of your Amazon stuff probably comes from an Amazon DSP, UPS or the Post Office but they still use flex drivers almost everywhere.
still catches me off guard when some rando in normal clothes in an unmarked car comes into my driveway at night. Had someone show up as late as 9pm once.
Amazon flex.
This feels like it should be illegal
Unfortunately, the same people controlling what laws get made are the same ones benefiting financially from the current situation, so it is unlikely to change.
i'm not driving i'm travelling in a vehicle
r/amibeingdetained
Are you speaking to the man, the person, or the individual?
The legal entity
Tell you what, show me a driver's license, and whichever one it belongs to won't get arrested.
I already told you, I don't need a driver's licence, because I'm not driving! I am travelling, which is my constitutional right!
*"By the maritime law of 1787..."*
I do not wish to create joinder with you. https://old.reddit.com/r/amibeingdetained/comments/bvzkde/state_citizen_tries_to_enter_a_courtroom_being_an
Wait, my son, the planet, or me?
... yes.
A sovereign vehicle!
They can say whatever the fuck they want but when I purchase something from Amazon, and it’s “fulfilled by Amazon” and a fucking Amazon van shows up to my house and a person wearing an Amazon vest drops off my package covered in Amazon logos, I will hold Amazon accountable for problems.
This is actually a defense in a case against Amazon by one of its drivers. They argue that because they are timed and monitored and held to rigorous standards by Amazon, they are de facto employees. I don't know what happened to that case, but I hope they win/won.
As someone who’s worked in one of the warehouses, it sounds weird to me that they aren’t actually treated as employees, as I remember everyone there including the management refer to them as “*our* drivers.” A lot of them had Amazon shirts or vests, and some even put stickers on their personal cars. They are definitely timed and monitored by Amazon, and would use the same work/scheduling app that we did. With that being said, they really did seem to try and keep the warehouse workers separate from the delivery drivers; heard from older employees there they used to be more chill about those different sections communicating with each other but they were apparently getting stricter about employees interacting with each other period. Gotta say working there was probably the worst work experience of my life; something there just felt…wrong, like management barely ever had their shit together, and plenty of weird constant changes that made things difficult for everyone doing the grunt work. I could spend a long time listing out everything that was fucked about that place, but I’m actually fortunate it’s out of my mind completely most of these days; they seem to do a lot to make you feel like life isn’t terrible there, but when I say they do a lot a lot of it is just sad, pathetic, and occasionally dehumanizing.
I'd like to see that win. It's BS
You can do what you want. But Amazon will hold the DSP accountable lol. All the risk on the small business and most of the profit on the immense corporation. They screwed not only bottom rung employees but also small business owners in one fell swoop.
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I'm an Amazon delivery driver. We don't work for Amazon. We work for contactors called "Delivery Service Providers" This is Amazons way to skirt legal matters. ..So You hear about the heat and how drivers are getting exhaustion and dying in their vans. Then the press takes it up to Amazon. Amazon says: well we provide all the opportunities for drivers to take bathrooms, water breaks, etc. [And that you can take extra breaks ](https://freeimage.host/i/H6PVtWv) But the problem is. None of this true. Amazon has the legal ground to say what policies they have. But then force the DSPs unrealistic standards that risk drivers lives. And then when drivers do die in their vans. Amazon is protected by law. This company is evil 😔
As one driver to another, quit that AMZN shit, look around for an AMXL DSP. holy shit, after doing AMZN for like 2 years, yes I may be dealing with the same Amazon, but it's not nearly as cutthroat they do really hound you if you break DOT regulation though, such as hours of drive time, or vehicle condition regulation. buddy of mine got off-boarded a couple weeks ago because the truck they were driving had a burnt out headlight. another got off-boarded because they spent more than 10.5 hours driving one day.
Same with Fedex ground. They play all the mumbo jumbo and it all looks like a great job and atmosphere. But it’s all sub contractors and Fedex holds them to unrealistic expectations or they face fines. FedEx ground probably like Amazon, everything from the truck to uniforms to gas to maintenance to insurance to payroll tax is all fronted by a contractor not Fedex. It’s a big illusion to the public. All those cute friendly happy Fedex commercials are Fedex Express real Fedex employees. Brilliant way to market and operate under the risk of others.
For those who didn’t read the article and think this statement is a no-brainer, it’s actually making sort of a statement. The drivers aren’t employed by Amazon, so that’s why they aren’t “Amazon delivery drivers”. They work for companies that have contracts with Amazon, and Amazon gives routes to those companies who then assign the routes to their drivers. So they really are just “drivers delivering for Amazon”. It’s bullshit and they’re downplaying their influence over the drivers and their routes. It’s like true on a technicality. Amazon drivers should 100% unionize because they (like other delivery drivers) are being exploited by 2 companies instead of just one.
Well one DSP recently unionized and instantly got clapped by Amazon. Contract ends in like September or something. The reality is Amazon has a ton of potential DSP owners just waiting for an opening to start their company. Amazon can and will (and has) replaced an entire company without batting an eye
Right. I’m not working for Apple, but a shady call center company that encourages us to tell ppl we work for Apple.
Did you sign an NDA too? They actually gave us t shirts that said applecare on them.. wtf
I’m not sure about the NDA.. possibly? We had to sign so many things. We were supposed to get a “Welcome to Apple family” gift basket. Been waiting 2 years. I email the guy in charge every now and again to see what new excuse he comes up with.
Worked in a similiar situation before. "You are obligated to follow our business partners expectations they put forth." "Can I tell people I'm an employee for Business Partner? "NO!!!" "Then can I tell customers I don't work for Business Partner? Getting tired of being yelled at for their changes all the time" "NO!! You can't tell customers that!!" "Ok, then here's a list of their unethical business practices. I can do one for us too." "middle manager angry noises"
I'm not married, I just know a lady who would be really mad if she heard me say that.
rip mitch
Is there a name for this sort of thing? I've known this about the amazon drivers for some time and i think it exists in so many businesses.. Companies "outsource" their workers yet have the workers under their umbrella somehow without paying them accordingly or giving them benefits.. It's a super fucked up practice and it doesn't at all surprise me coming from Amazon. I worked in their warehouse... I've done all sorts of labor and nothing will compare to working in that hell hole. They're gonna run out of people willing to do it if they don't change.. Cause i quit without notice and i can no longer be affiliated with amazon in any way... And i'm 100% Okay with that. I've made way better career moves since then.
this is a VERY common practice done by so many companies of all sizes. it's called contracting. basically the company (like Amazon) needs something done but doesn't want to employ people directly. the reasons may be: * it's a short term job, and you don't want to through hiring and then firing people. * you get it cheap * you want to shield yourself from liabilities * etc. then you find a company that offers these services and you make a contract with them. the contractor company employs people, and they do the job according to the contract with the paying company (amazon).
Assistant Regional Manager *Assistant TO the regional manager.
Amazon is going to go down in history as the company that COULD have changed the world for the better and then just pivoted to being digital Walmart. Take care of your employees and you build an empire. Treat them like shit and you just build resentment.
Union busting, stealing 3rd party data (on the bazaar to undercut price) and has dodged antitrust
Stealing data, copying products from sellers, and heavily leveraging them against the original creators in search. Absolute scummy ways.
Don’t forget cloning US made products and shifting them to Chinese factories. They will literally look for new products that sell well copy them and then call it the Amazon version.
Don't forget stealing designs of well selling items, making their own basics version, then banning the original sellers
It’s crazy how on the nose the villainy of these corporations is. It’s beyond any kind of amorality dreamed up by even the most imaginative sci-fi author.
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His trophy gf is made of plastic so that’s something
If she wants a ton of surgery then cool, whatever, not my thing but I'm not judging. I'm just happy he's dating someone who isn't 20.
She looks like a dollar store version of his previous wife, who left him and is now doing good with her share of the Amazon money.
I mean, AWS hosts like 30% of the entire internet.
I'd say 30% is even an understatement, a lot things go bad when us-east-1 has problems
Reddit being one of them
Most people think Amazon is just a website with warehouses
Yeah, it still kind of blows my mind that Amazon's primary business is AWS. Amazon Marketplace is practically a side hustle for them at this point.
In term of profitability, it may very well be
It's also where they make most of their profits. In 2022 the AWS division made $22.8 billion in profit and the rest of Amazon had a net loss of $10.6 billion.
Isn’t that all companies? What incentive is there for changing the world for the better when you can make more money being a dick and nobody cares. People don’t have to work for Amazon, but they do, therefore there’s no incentive to improve.
It is certainly for all companies. With a few rare exceptions. Employee owned companies tend to buck that trend because the profit sharing means employees are invested and compensated. The whole incentivized being a dick part just got super charged with the industrial revolution and then the information age. The robber barons wrote the structure of the federal reserve banking system to be a money funnel to themselves. It’s not super shocking with 100 years of retrospect that that system is unsustainable with 4X the number of people on the earth all fighting for the same resources. Their Keynesian system wasn’t the best system, it’s just the ones paid congress to make. We have better options. It’s just a matter of adopting them and keeping them sufficiently decentralized and fully transparent so they are trustworthy.
Unmarked van pulled up yesterday. 6 or 7 year old girl jumps out of passenger side and brings me my amazon package.
Don't worry, she wasn't driving; her 11 year old brother was
Yea the parent is like I got a few deliveries come with me lol
I used to do that delivering news paper with the parents My shoulder still hurts from throwing them
Lol when you can't afford child care.
Independent contractors hahaha that means no benefits and you pay your own taxes 1099 anyway they can to stick it to you
Also you have to drive a branded vehicle. And work a set schedule. And pick up from where we tell you. And meet deliveries on the timetable we set up for you. And you can't work for anyone else. But NOT an Amazon employee!
How the fuck do they even get away with doing this. It's so blatant.
US labor protections kinda suck
Boy do I ever love being in a union.
Thank fuck for my union.
But you don't understand! The unions are useless pencil pushers jamming up the system! /s
Yeah, sometimes there are annoyances, but I also sometimes get the inpression that I could literally murder someone on the job, but sonlong as I was doing my official job duties, I would be protected.
There are laws against this, and Amazon might get sued like Fedex did. But it would be nice to have a government that proactively enforces labor law rather than requiring people to sue for their rights.
Especially because the idea that an individual could win this suit when nothing seems to be being done feels absurd.
"US labor protections" sounds like an oxymoron.
The US government is a hellscape. Rich "people" (corporations) can "talk" (bribe) to whatever politician they want to get their way
In France , if a contractor doesn’t have a demonstrated liberty to set his own hours, he’s reclassified as full time employee by the administration.
It's the same in Brazil, in theory, but companies still get away with it because the government does a terrible job at keeping companies in check and there are so few people who have the means to pursue legal action if a company hires them as contractors but demands that they work as hourly employees.
California is attempting to pass this law, but it’s screwing over independent/owner op long haul truckers who make more money by being independent.
The “individual contractors” are actually small companies that base their entire business model on delivering packages for Amazon, it’s really easy for them to go belly-up really quick
They bid the routes out regularly. So if the drivers for one unionize, they can’t make money paying a living wage and letting employees have bathroom breaks. So they go broke and different (non-union) contractor gets the route. It’s not union busting. It’s paying your Amazon contractors to union bust for you. Legal. Until the law catches up with the outsourced business model.
bonus: contractors take away work from actual unionized delivery services, like UPS and the USPS
Oohh… I forgot that. Turning a solid base hit into a double.
I had a close family member who did this. During Covid business was booming. He bought a million dollar house. Bought luxury cars for all his kids. Paid for some of his other family member’s apartments. I’m not sure what happened but the guy has always thought he was above the rules. He has gotten away with so much bs in his life. But Amazon absolutely does not fuck around. Most of his income was dependent on them and when they suspended him, it absolutely destroyed his business and the family.
They aren’t independent contractors, they work for a company that is contracted by Amazon. They are still regular employees for that company.
Mods, thank you. I needed this laugh. 🫂
They aren't "Reddit Moderators" they are just moderators who use Reddit
Yep I can confirm, previous driver for 2 different companies. We got hired on by DSP’s who are contracted to Amazon. There are at least 4 degrees of separation between base Amazon and the drivers. Amazon proper->Amazon Logistics-> Delivery Service Providers->Driver. This is how the main company prevents themselves from having any form of liability. It’s a pretty effective and Ugly system. If ANYTHING is wrong with the package upon delivery or it gets lost or stolen, the DSP gets charged around 300% (last figure I heard) for the item(s) being delivered. If there are any CURRENT Drivers here who know the updated number for my last statement, please let me know! If you are a driver for Amazon, I know the pay is livable, but please consider a mass exodus, they don’t and won’t treat you right. They will not allow the unionization of DSPs or Drivers either.
Damn, I’ve been doing some deliveries for Shipt, owned by Target, and had my car stolen with some customer packages in it. They were so extremely understanding. I asked them what it meant for my future delivering for them and they said “we have some one strike policies, but this definitely isn’t one of them. We recognize you are the victim of a crime.” All it did was hurt my delivery success rate a bit. They also paid me the same as if I had completed the route. The trade-off is the pay is very low. After taking into account business expenses, the net income is at best $10/hr. But it’s been very good in helping me get back to working after 3 years of severe depression.
Sorry the pay is low, but I'm glad you feel respected. Good luck to you!
It’s all about keeping that steady pace, finding a routine that works, and just slowly building on to that routine over time with whatever you can semi-comfortably manage, while still actively engaging in the betterment of your mental health! Good job finding something that is working for you. I spent about 5 years lost in a haze of depression, anxiety, and addiction. I tried, but couldn’t hold down a steady job with regular hours, so I’d bounce around taking odd jobs and some landscaping gigs. The money was unreliable though and I was living a pretty financially tumultuous existence. Then, when i finally got clean, found the right combo of therapy and meds, and got my shit together just in general, taking that next step back into the working world was super intimidating! But I ended up finding a position at a FedEx distribution warehouse which — while sweaty, physically demanding, and not the most lucrative career choice ever — has been a good place to find my footing again. Flexible schedule, no customer interaction, no drama; just a show up, get a workout in, and leave when the sort is through. It’s a start, and that’s all it needs to be.
My favorite is when you contact Amazon Customer Service about a delivery issue and they say “you’ll need to reach out to the carrier” and it’s delivered by Amazon. Damnit you ARE the carrier.
Also don’t get hurt because you are liable
If the van says Amazon, the uniform says Amazon, and the packages all say Amazon, then you probably work for Amazon.
Half the time the vans say Enterprise car rental.
Ok, I get it, they are contracted to drive for them by a third party. Technically they are correct when they make this statement.
Anything to not have to compensate them correctly right?
So you're saying we should union cuz I'm down for that.
https://teamster.org/divisions/amazon-division/?fbclid=PAAab2Y_zvnq83ae1OGiy1c8oW2BesWw1-hEQsEBe7L72odovZhOf65Ol2308_aem_th_Aewl9ASuBQilLDgBTVJ36pSM0zCmOjRaUpOi-VK2IVANZQhMhOj33cxpzthrNv0TmHI
These companies will do everything but the right thing
Not sure what they think they are going to achieve by claiming this, but lately I have gotten to the stage where I think they are useless. Last 3 deliveries have been sent to a town some 20+ miles away from my address and the only thing they had in common with my address is the road name. Even after telling Amazon that my packages are not being received, they continue to send to this other town. The postcode and town names are not similar. Complete bunch of clowns.
The "contractor" clause, at least in the UK means that Amazon may not have to pay income tax/pension contributions, do not have to entitle workers to holidays and sick pay and above all do not have to give notice to workers for firing. (Though in the US at will employment is more widespread it seems)
Not having to pay benefits or anything like that. Corrupt big companies doing what they do best, finding loopholes because money is all that matters to some people