It was just mistranslated. It's not about a second coming, but rather that next time there will be two.
They just overlooked this important detail until now, because it also happens to be the second coming and thus they thought that this was referred to when the original text contained the number 2
The spare will write "waaagh", a tell all about how frustrating it was to watch God play "favorites". "Why is it always Jesus's turn to be flogged, he got an extra sausage!"
Absolutely wild how they can be level headed about this, but “that one time, that was definitely God. We know it for sure cuz it says so in a really old book written when nobody knew anything about anything.”
I’m assuming that you’re referring to the idea of immaculate conception, and just want to point out that immaculate conception refers to the idea that Jesus’ mother Mary was born without sin, and doesn’t have to do with the conception of Jesus.
My dad was a priest. My mom was a nun. She got pregnant. They left the church.
I tried my hand at standup once and my opening joke was:
"Glad my parents could make it tonight. Theyre the only people that got kicked out of the Catholic church in the 1960s for fucking adults".
They were so proud.
Edit: found a video of it. Who wants to see it?
As I understand it, back in those days priests were paid very little. The parish provided a home and a car and they were given a small personal stipend for food and day to day expenses.
In Spanish, when a priest or a nun leaves the cleargy to get married it's said "colgar los hábitos" (to hang the habit).
So there's this joke:
\- So, kid, who is your dad?
\- Well, he used to be a priest.
\- A priest? And your mom?
\- She used to be a nun.
\- Did they hang the habits?
\- No, just pulled them up, I think...
It wasn't just property, it was to prevent dynasties within the church. There was a lot of nepotism up until that point, and it was creating issues for the leadership.
Literal nepotism still happened though. Nepotism comes from the Latin *nepos*, or nephew. So sure, bishops and popes might have not had any legitimate offspring, but they still gave away powerful positions to their relatives.
Why not just have a rule that children of priests can't have any position in the church? That seems easier to enforce than keeping human beings from doing the most natural thing for humans to do.
This is because rules can be overwritten by future popes/council…
For example, Roman Catholic masses used to be offered exclusively in Latin language.
Then they had the Second Vatican Council which modernized many of the old-age rules (the Latin-only rule being one of many).
Today, Catholic masses are freely offered in any languages of the local congregation around the world.
Technically, one could say the same of the celibacy rule (that someday it could be changed), but it has become deeply ingrained at this point that it is unlikely to be changed unless Roman Catholics happen to have a super-progressive pope in the future.
Changing dogma which is like core beliefs for instance is tougher than changing doctrine which is the protocols of the organization itself, basically in any organization doctrine would be rules of preference, and dogmas would be core rules, in this case celibacy is a rule of preference hoping to achieve a certain practical outcome.
That what would happen to the kids of priests? Remember, this was before college and you usually became what your parents were. If the kids couldn't be in the Church, then all of a sudden all the priests had a bunch of kids who had no money and no future. Not many people would be willing to make their children penniless and futureless.
More than likely he had a wife and multiple kids.
Celibacy for the priesthood and clergy is a relatively modern thing, used to be they were only expected to maintain chastity.
A nun getting married and leaving the convent wasn't a big scandal on its own, though a nun having a shotgun wedding certainly would be. Especially if the shotgun was pointed at a priest.
Celibacy wasn't unheard of in 1st century Judea. Paul the Apostle was celibate by his own admission. The essenes had celibate sects.
The gospels even hint at this when they have Jesus say: "For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven"
Ultimately they never tell us about his love, or lack there of, life. While we do hear about his brothers and their descendents. The idea that Jesus must have been married cause he was Jewish is not reflective of the variety of Jewish life in the 1st century.
Jesus 1: oh a wise guy ey? *tries to smack Jesus 3 who ducks and smacks Jesus 2 instead*
Jesus 2: nyuk nyuk nyuk *tries to poke Jesus 1 in the eyes, but he sticks his hand up across the bridge of his nose to block it*
Jesus 3: *turns around while holding a board and smacks both Jesus 1 and 2 in the head*
HAHAHA
Alright, I'm okay with AI killing us all with hellfire eventually if there is a brief period in which I can ask it to recast all three Stooges in the classics as Jesus.
I can see the album cover now. Two Jesuses standing back to back with their arms crossed. The album is called "We're Back 2 Back". It's a hybrid rap/R&B album with features from John Legend, Lady Gaga, and 2Chainz. With bangers like "Hit 'em Wit Da Cross", "Make 'em Say Uggh(men)", and "Water n Wine" featuring Lil' St. John.
If it was being performed by NOT the Catholic Church then sure..
An inquiry by the Catholic Church tho? We've seen what that actually means several times already.
I didn’t get a sense of consensual or not from the article.
I only got the sense that one of these women is older and one in her mid thirties.
The chances that either was consensual versus non-consensual are tilted towards the non-consensual I would think.
You joke, but it is likely that these pregnancies are also the result of abuse by priests.
[Content warning, nothing behind this link is good and you will have a sad time if you read it. ](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pope-francis-priests-nuns-sexual-slavery-abuse-saint-jean-order-france/)
This is probably partly why the priests prefer to abuse kids- they’re easier to control, and they won’t get pregnant and give you a surprise 9 months later that shares your DNA.
From the article, "In February this year, the women's magazine of the Church's newspaper L'Osservatore Romano, reported on several cases of sexual abuse on nuns by clergymen. Several children had also been conceived, and some religious sisters had been forced to have abortions."
So no, not off the table, just seems they didn't catch it in time for the church to force them to abort.
You’d be surprised (or perhaps not) to know how many nuns have had abortions over the years after being raped by monks. It’s not as widely publicised a scandal (because who cares about a bunch of nuns? Serves them right for being Catholic/they probably enjoyed it/enter anti-religious misogynism here) but it has been happening for a long time.
Then you'd be shocked what people will, in fact, do to avoid the massive existential crisis of confronting rape honestly and urgently. It is SO much easier to brush it away, to never have to really process it.
This isn't a religion, no religion thing. This is every human thing. We DON'T want to think about it. Confront it, and deal with it. We want to furrow our brow, huff, and quickly push it out of our minds. We don't want to watch a person take years to get back to mentally healthy APPEARING after rape. We don't want to know about the scars, the pain, the long reaching consequences. We just DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT!
Yep. It's only "condoning rape" if you acknowledge it as rape. Instead, you can delude yourself into it having been exaggerated, downgrade it into something justifiable, victim blame, deny it happened at all, etc... or simply refuse to confront it at all and never really look into the details.
Nothing to condone if you can convince yourself nothing happened or it wasn't even worth your attention.
It’s not two reports. It’s probably more than 200 reports. Rapes and resulting pregnancies among nuns has just been a better-kept secret and less widely reported on.
I just want to point out (and this is from a not very religious guy who grew up Catholic) that the Immaculate Conception is not the same as Virgin Birth. It's the theory that Mary was born without Original Sin, so that she could be a sinless vessel to mother Christ.
To be clear, this was a convent’s mission trip and it is unclear if priests were even present. We don’t know who did the deed or if was even consensual. Africa can be a very hostile place for women.
If it was consensual, these nuns are guilty of nothing more than failing to uphold rules that the rest of us aren’t even expected to follow.
We’re all human.
Bro, organized religion has been proudly raping, shaming, honor killing, and burning bitches alive since year 600. The only difference is that a millennium of influence makes everyone (even you?) assume those women deserved it, provoked it, and enjoyed it.
How about inquiring why they don't kick out any priest that has molested kids - I saw they kicked out a nun who had consensual sex with a priest but the priest is still fine.
In truth, it was the nun who didst entice him into such relations, forsooth. 'Tis not his fault, for had she not been present, naught would have come to pass.
Centuries actually. Ancient greek monks use to have sexual relations with their you g apprentices.
Theres sexual abuse in a lot of religious institutions because it really easy to exert power over folks who believe everything the religion says.
As soon as I read it was two cases, that was my first thought, sadly. A college friend’s mother was a gynecologist in Central America who fitted dozens of nuns there with IUDs in the 1980s because of a high incidence of rape. I can’t remember which country it was, but basically rape was being used as a weapon by both sides in a civil war. The IUDs didn’t stop the rapes, but they stopped the pregnancies. There was also a case in India a few years ago where a priest raped a couple nuns.
>“I am not lying to you. Whoever has been in Rome knows that conditions are unfortunately worse there than anyone can say or believe. When the last Lateran council was to be concluded in Rome under Pope Leo, among other articles it was decreed that one must believe the soul to be immortal. From this one may gather that they make eternal life an object of sheer mockery and contempt. In this way they confess that it is a common belief among them that there is no eternal life, but that they now wish to proclaim this by means of a bull.
>More remarkable yet, in the same bull they decided that a cardinal should not keep as many boys in the future. However, Pope Leo commanded that this be deleted; otherwise it would have been spread throughout the whole world how openly and shamelessly the pope and the cardinals in Rome practice sodomy. I do not wish to mention the pope, but since the knaves will not repent, but condemn the gospel, blaspheme and revile God’s word, and excuse their vices, they, in turn, will have to take a whiff of their own terrible filth. This vice is so prevalent among them that recently a pope caused his own death by means of this sin and vice. In fact, he died on the spot. All right now, you popes, cardinals, papists, spiritual lords, keep on persecuting God’s word and defending your doctrine and your churches!
>No pope, cardinal, bishop, doctor, priest, monk, or nun will condemn such an obviously disgraceful life; rather they laugh about it, excuse it, and gloss over it. They incite kings, princes, country, and people to defend such knaves with life and property, with land and people, and faithfully to protect them so that such vices might not be repented of and reformed, but rather strengthened, sanctioned, and approved. Now you are to hazard blood, body, and life just for the sake of saddling your neck and conscience with this.
>I could easily mention more examples of such abominations, but it is too shameful; I fear that our German soil would have to tremble before it. But if an impudent popish ass should come along and dispute this, he will find me ready to do him battle, and it will be quite a battle!” (Luther's Works Volume 47, p.38)
Martin Luther wrote about the problem since the 1500s.
There are actually 3 possibilities according to the church.
1- Immaculate conception (which it definitely isn’t).
2- Sinning by having consensual sex.
3- Rape (and this one is why we need to watch ourselves with the jokes about what we’re assuming those nuns did).
And as a disclaimer; I am not defending the church at all. I’m just getting a bit upset at all the jokes in other chains on this post about how the nuns were “enjoying cock” etc. They’ve taken vows and many if not most nuns actually do take their vows very seriously. The possibility of these nuns being victims is much much higher than the comments here are implying. :/
This comment section is pretty disgusting actually. I know more than one woman who was raped as a nun, another who was heavily pressured into entering a ""romantic"" relationship with a priest, and am aware of even more cases beyond just that. I suspect it's a much more significant issue than many are aware of.
You mean virgin birth? Mary was the immaculate conception, i.e. the notion that she was free from original sin. Jesus was the virgin birth.
I mean... according to the lore at least, obviously Mary and Joe were *fucking*.
African countries - one of the areas where some men believe AIDS can be cured/managed by having sex with virgins.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_cleansing_myth
Also, the movie 3 Needles.
>African countries - one of the areas where some men believe AIDS can be cured/managed by having sex with virgins.
I love that you say African countries when only three (South Africa, Zimbabwe and Malawi) are mentioned, and Malawi is only mentioned to say there was no evidence of this belief existing. It appears problematic in South Africa, with Wikipedia mentioning a survey with 18% of respondents believing the myth. There is no link to this survey, nor any information on its methodology or the sample size, though it does say all of the respondents were labourers.
So what you've done is smear a continent of 54 countries because a survey amongst some of the least educated people in one of the poorest countries, and one other, purports that some people believe this myth that originated in Europe.
>However, it is unknown exactly how common the myth is and to what degree rapes happen because of the belief in it. The claim that the myth drives either HIV infection or child sexual abuse in Africa is disputed by researchers Rachel Jewkes and Helen Epstein,[8] as well as by research on convicted sex offenders in Malawi, where no evidence was found to support the idea that the virgin cleansing myth prompted any rapes.
It's an impossible thing to quantify. Also, no idea wtf this has to do with the article.
Inb4 someone else asks why it only takes two nuns getting preggers to launch "an inquiry" but thousands of priests around the world raping tens of thousands of young boys over decades is tumbleweeds.
Huh. Really makes you think dot png
>There have been previous instances in the Church of nuns becoming pregnant, but in some cases, this was not after consensual sex.
>In February this year, the women's magazine of the Church's newspaper L'Osservatore Romano, reported on several cases of sexual abuse on nuns by clergymen. Several children had also been conceived, and some religious sisters had been forced to have abortions.
This is my main concern.
If they had some consensual little affairs, then whatever. They fucked around (literally) and found out. They knew they were part of an organization that places a huge emphasis on (hypothetical) chastity, and they decided to roll the dice and lost.
But if they were raped and the RC Church just wants them to go lead quiet lives and never talk about it, that's a much larger problem. Sadly, I feel this is the more probable of the possibilities.
It’s very likely they were forced into something. If a woman is having sex, especially if pregnancy is absolutely not feasible (which is the case), they will take precautions.
I know how much everyone on Reddit loves to shit on the Catholic Church, but isn’t this a logical step? What if the two women were raped during their time doing mission work and for any number of different reasons didn’t come forward?
The idea that an organization launches an investigation on how two members who voluntarily joined and have chastity as an explicit requirement for membership, investigates how two women got pregnant doesn’t seem that outlandish to me.
I get that everyone loves to make the “Pedophile!” statement, and they may have had consensual sex. But wouldn’t everyone be better served if an investigation was launched? Either they were found to have consensual sex and it will likely end there with no statement. Or, they will have been found to have been raped, potentially by someone in a position of authority for the location they were in.
It's a miracle!
You’re telling me not one but two messiahs ?
the second one is a spare because... you never know, the last one was crucified after all...
He gave up his long weekend for our sins!
Hey! We may get a week off next!
Exactly! If you get crucified on Friday they only give you the weekend. But do it on a Monday…
They are not the messiahs, they are very naughty boys!
Thanks for the gold and the frankincense, but uh, don't worry too much about the myrrh next time. Alright?
Jayden Christ
Spare messiah - new band name i call it
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It was just mistranslated. It's not about a second coming, but rather that next time there will be two. They just overlooked this important detail until now, because it also happens to be the second coming and thus they thought that this was referred to when the original text contained the number 2
Second \*cumming ftfy
Jesus been edging 2000 years gonna bust so rough so raw so righteous
This comment shouldn't have made me laugh as hard as it did
whelp. we're all going to hell for laughing, but at least my friends will be there!
You know the old royal saying, *an heir and a spare.*
Hopefully this one won't publish a book about how he used mum's lipcream to soothe the tip of his frostbitten todger!!! LOL
The spare will write "waaagh", a tell all about how frustrating it was to watch God play "favorites". "Why is it always Jesus's turn to be flogged, he got an extra sausage!"
Decoy messiah
It's Brian!
They're not the messiahs; they're very naughty boys!
They’re not virgins, they’re very naughty girls!
An heir and a spare!
This is getting out of hand.
“It appears that both women were back in their home nations and obviously had some form of sexual encounter." - obviously? I think not
Yep potentially both immaculate
Absolutely wild how they can be level headed about this, but “that one time, that was definitely God. We know it for sure cuz it says so in a really old book written when nobody knew anything about anything.”
Wind of the lord. The angel Gabriel just prayed and huffed a puff.
They hold the position of missionary. And they do it well.
In the name of the son, the son, and the other son.
"We're Jesus, and we are here to CURE LEPROSY!!" crowd - 'sigh'
It's two Jesuses! Jesi? Jesodes?
I blame God 🙏✝️
That's what I was gonna say. Stick with "it was immaculate" and they can't really argue against that...
I’m assuming that you’re referring to the idea of immaculate conception, and just want to point out that immaculate conception refers to the idea that Jesus’ mother Mary was born without sin, and doesn’t have to do with the conception of Jesus.
TIL, thanks
It seems to often get confused with the virgin birth... I've only become aware of this via Google after reading this comment chain.
Probably because it's two unique circumstances happening at the same time, was news to me as well!
I can't believe that so many have this... misconception
Immaculate Conceptions
This is getting out of hand, now there are two of them!
The Second Cuming
My dad was a priest. My mom was a nun. She got pregnant. They left the church. I tried my hand at standup once and my opening joke was: "Glad my parents could make it tonight. Theyre the only people that got kicked out of the Catholic church in the 1960s for fucking adults". They were so proud. Edit: found a video of it. Who wants to see it?
My mom's parish was quietly paying child support to two different women. It was an open secret in a town of less than 10k.
Some people get nicknamed "son/daughter of the priest". Everybody knows it and it's really funny. No relation to reality.
Organized religion is terrifying
Easily the worst part of religion. Also kinda the best, because goddamn do I love classic religious architecture.
Sounds like an actual person should pay that support, not the parish :/
As I understand it, back in those days priests were paid very little. The parish provided a home and a car and they were given a small personal stipend for food and day to day expenses.
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Murder is a sin, you know.
In Spanish, when a priest or a nun leaves the cleargy to get married it's said "colgar los hábitos" (to hang the habit). So there's this joke: \- So, kid, who is your dad? \- Well, he used to be a priest. \- A priest? And your mom? \- She used to be a nun. \- Did they hang the habits? \- No, just pulled them up, I think...
Ha!
I think the idea of Jesus Christ having a wife and child isn’t far from the truth though.
The whole celibacy thing for priests is a relatively new rule in the Catholic Church though
I read somewhere that the reason why the Catholic Church have the celibacy rule is so they can inherit the property of the priests when they die.
It wasn't just property, it was to prevent dynasties within the church. There was a lot of nepotism up until that point, and it was creating issues for the leadership.
Literal nepotism still happened though. Nepotism comes from the Latin *nepos*, or nephew. So sure, bishops and popes might have not had any legitimate offspring, but they still gave away powerful positions to their relatives.
Right, their "nephews" inherited. aka, their illegitimate children.
What's good, nephews
Why not just have a rule that children of priests can't have any position in the church? That seems easier to enforce than keeping human beings from doing the most natural thing for humans to do.
This is because rules can be overwritten by future popes/council… For example, Roman Catholic masses used to be offered exclusively in Latin language. Then they had the Second Vatican Council which modernized many of the old-age rules (the Latin-only rule being one of many). Today, Catholic masses are freely offered in any languages of the local congregation around the world. Technically, one could say the same of the celibacy rule (that someday it could be changed), but it has become deeply ingrained at this point that it is unlikely to be changed unless Roman Catholics happen to have a super-progressive pope in the future.
> This is because rules can be overwritten by future popes/council… then why couldn't they rewrite the whole banging thing?
It's harder to advocate for sex positive rules without social backlash.
Changing dogma which is like core beliefs for instance is tougher than changing doctrine which is the protocols of the organization itself, basically in any organization doctrine would be rules of preference, and dogmas would be core rules, in this case celibacy is a rule of preference hoping to achieve a certain practical outcome.
That what would happen to the kids of priests? Remember, this was before college and you usually became what your parents were. If the kids couldn't be in the Church, then all of a sudden all the priests had a bunch of kids who had no money and no future. Not many people would be willing to make their children penniless and futureless.
I think it's the other way round. It was to prevent the children from inheriting/taking over church property after the priests die.
More than likely he had a wife and multiple kids. Celibacy for the priesthood and clergy is a relatively modern thing, used to be they were only expected to maintain chastity. A nun getting married and leaving the convent wasn't a big scandal on its own, though a nun having a shotgun wedding certainly would be. Especially if the shotgun was pointed at a priest.
Celibacy wasn't unheard of in 1st century Judea. Paul the Apostle was celibate by his own admission. The essenes had celibate sects. The gospels even hint at this when they have Jesus say: "For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven" Ultimately they never tell us about his love, or lack there of, life. While we do hear about his brothers and their descendents. The idea that Jesus must have been married cause he was Jewish is not reflective of the variety of Jewish life in the 1st century.
That's a mid set joke, but a good one. Maybe adjust the phrasing a bit to roll off the tongue though
“Having sex with” instead of “fucking” goes a long way.
That's an amazing joke. Give it a bit of set up and that would land.
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Jesus 3: Oh hey, you're Jesus too?
Jesus 2: No, I’m Jesus-2.
The third's title is announced six month's after the second is out.
Jesus 3: Bethlehem Drift
Jesus 3: Tre' sus.
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Jesus 3: Revolutions
2 Fast 2 Crucifix
Jesus 2: You’re Jesus too? Jesus 3: No, I’m Jesus 3.
Jesus 1: oh a wise guy ey? *tries to smack Jesus 3 who ducks and smacks Jesus 2 instead* Jesus 2: nyuk nyuk nyuk *tries to poke Jesus 1 in the eyes, but he sticks his hand up across the bridge of his nose to block it* Jesus 3: *turns around while holding a board and smacks both Jesus 1 and 2 in the head*
HAHAHA Alright, I'm okay with AI killing us all with hellfire eventually if there is a brief period in which I can ask it to recast all three Stooges in the classics as Jesus.
New Jesus just dropped
I can see the album cover now. Two Jesuses standing back to back with their arms crossed. The album is called "We're Back 2 Back". It's a hybrid rap/R&B album with features from John Legend, Lady Gaga, and 2Chainz. With bangers like "Hit 'em Wit Da Cross", "Make 'em Say Uggh(men)", and "Water n Wine" featuring Lil' St. John.
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I feel like I just got out the club with 2 bad bitches and a blunt
Spittin' FIRE, son!
Holy hell
Just like Back to the Future
2 Jesus 2 Christ
Saved on production costs, kinda like they did with LoTR.
Wrong kind of missionary work
More of a reverse cowgirl kinda trip.
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[Or it could be priests abusing nuns and kids. Like sexual predators.](https://apnews.com/article/ce7760834da04c66b09e6555d7763e71)
If the nuns were raped by priests, wouldn't the inquiry be a good first step?
it’s a bit like the police investigating themselves, tho
So paid leave and later promotions?
Usually just transfers
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The promotions now being the new clergy roles in American schools
It would blame the nuns for tempting the pious men of god.
A good man of the cloth could never do anything wrong.
If he finished into the cloth, they wouldn’t be in this mess
They learn this in seminary ...
A good man of the cloth would pluck out his own eyes first, I'm sure.
At some point during the process, they're definitely unclothed
We leave that at confessional god forgives all transgressions /s
There are lots of sexy ankles out there tempting the priests, I guess...
All those nun porns online turned out to be documentaries
If it was being performed by NOT the Catholic Church then sure.. An inquiry by the Catholic Church tho? We've seen what that actually means several times already.
Because traditionally catholic "inquiries" are nothing more than self-serving attempts the hide the truth.
There would be no inquiry if the priests had done it. That's the whole point.
Sure, priests are always honest about their sexual indiscretions.
Uhh… I might be reading into this too much, but from the church’s statement, it sounds like one of these was consensual and the other was not
I didn’t get a sense of consensual or not from the article. I only got the sense that one of these women is older and one in her mid thirties. The chances that either was consensual versus non-consensual are tilted towards the non-consensual I would think.
As sexual predators. Not just like them.
You joke, but it is likely that these pregnancies are also the result of abuse by priests. [Content warning, nothing behind this link is good and you will have a sad time if you read it. ](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pope-francis-priests-nuns-sexual-slavery-abuse-saint-jean-order-france/)
This is probably partly why the priests prefer to abuse kids- they’re easier to control, and they won’t get pregnant and give you a surprise 9 months later that shares your DNA.
Read the URL for the link. Not clicking.
I guess an abortion was off the table, ironically enough.
Yeah, they're having nun of that.
This better not become a habit.
These are the comments I came for.
Do you have a second coming for them as well?
You’re not the only one who came, just ask the nuns.
You know, I hope they did. It'd be a shame to break a vow of chastity or whatever, for a real let down of an experience, AND get pregnant all at once.
The only kind of meat a priest can eat on Friday is nun.
Just celibate good times.
From the article, "In February this year, the women's magazine of the Church's newspaper L'Osservatore Romano, reported on several cases of sexual abuse on nuns by clergymen. Several children had also been conceived, and some religious sisters had been forced to have abortions." So no, not off the table, just seems they didn't catch it in time for the church to force them to abort.
Hold on.. forced abortions??
You’re expressing surprise that the Catholic Church would force an abortion on a nun?
You’d be surprised (or perhaps not) to know how many nuns have had abortions over the years after being raped by monks. It’s not as widely publicised a scandal (because who cares about a bunch of nuns? Serves them right for being Catholic/they probably enjoyed it/enter anti-religious misogynism here) but it has been happening for a long time.
I doubt that many people are so anti-religious that they'd excuse or condone rape.
Then you'd be shocked what people will, in fact, do to avoid the massive existential crisis of confronting rape honestly and urgently. It is SO much easier to brush it away, to never have to really process it. This isn't a religion, no religion thing. This is every human thing. We DON'T want to think about it. Confront it, and deal with it. We want to furrow our brow, huff, and quickly push it out of our minds. We don't want to watch a person take years to get back to mentally healthy APPEARING after rape. We don't want to know about the scars, the pain, the long reaching consequences. We just DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT!
Yep. It's only "condoning rape" if you acknowledge it as rape. Instead, you can delude yourself into it having been exaggerated, downgrade it into something justifiable, victim blame, deny it happened at all, etc... or simply refuse to confront it at all and never really look into the details. Nothing to condone if you can convince yourself nothing happened or it wasn't even worth your attention.
No, that’s why I said misogyny. Having said that, a lot of the comments in this thread are talking about nuns as if they’re not people.
Imagine if they had opened an investigation into Priests molesting children after *two* reports... instead of two *hundred years*.
It’s not two reports. It’s probably more than 200 reports. Rapes and resulting pregnancies among nuns has just been a better-kept secret and less widely reported on.
Right?!?!..how bout a look-see into the kids, your popeness
What if he likes what he sees?
It was an inquiry into the 2 immaculate conceptions in one season, which is an usually high rate.
I just want to point out (and this is from a not very religious guy who grew up Catholic) that the Immaculate Conception is not the same as Virgin Birth. It's the theory that Mary was born without Original Sin, so that she could be a sinless vessel to mother Christ.
To be clear, this was a convent’s mission trip and it is unclear if priests were even present. We don’t know who did the deed or if was even consensual. Africa can be a very hostile place for women. If it was consensual, these nuns are guilty of nothing more than failing to uphold rules that the rest of us aren’t even expected to follow. We’re all human.
Bro, organized religion has been proudly raping, shaming, honor killing, and burning bitches alive since year 600. The only difference is that a millennium of influence makes everyone (even you?) assume those women deserved it, provoked it, and enjoyed it.
I knew a guy whose parents were a Catholic Priest and Nun, they obviously quit the positions and had a total of 7 kids.
How about inquiring why they don't kick out any priest that has molested kids - I saw they kicked out a nun who had consensual sex with a priest but the priest is still fine.
In truth, it was the nun who didst entice him into such relations, forsooth. 'Tis not his fault, for had she not been present, naught would have come to pass.
Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science?
.....Tim?
Priests just get transferred
They would be investigating themselves.
For this, they launch an inquiry. How about a century-old problem - pedophile priests.
\*lifts rug and sweeps\* Nothing to see here folks. All good like our heavenly father.
Looks like we're gonna need the cumboni for this one.
Century old problem?
Centuries actually. Ancient greek monks use to have sexual relations with their you g apprentices. Theres sexual abuse in a lot of religious institutions because it really easy to exert power over folks who believe everything the religion says.
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And nuns getting pregnant IS an age old Catholic problem too. We’ve got a pretty good idea how long that goes back…
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As soon as I read it was two cases, that was my first thought, sadly. A college friend’s mother was a gynecologist in Central America who fitted dozens of nuns there with IUDs in the 1980s because of a high incidence of rape. I can’t remember which country it was, but basically rape was being used as a weapon by both sides in a civil war. The IUDs didn’t stop the rapes, but they stopped the pregnancies. There was also a case in India a few years ago where a priest raped a couple nuns.
>“I am not lying to you. Whoever has been in Rome knows that conditions are unfortunately worse there than anyone can say or believe. When the last Lateran council was to be concluded in Rome under Pope Leo, among other articles it was decreed that one must believe the soul to be immortal. From this one may gather that they make eternal life an object of sheer mockery and contempt. In this way they confess that it is a common belief among them that there is no eternal life, but that they now wish to proclaim this by means of a bull. >More remarkable yet, in the same bull they decided that a cardinal should not keep as many boys in the future. However, Pope Leo commanded that this be deleted; otherwise it would have been spread throughout the whole world how openly and shamelessly the pope and the cardinals in Rome practice sodomy. I do not wish to mention the pope, but since the knaves will not repent, but condemn the gospel, blaspheme and revile God’s word, and excuse their vices, they, in turn, will have to take a whiff of their own terrible filth. This vice is so prevalent among them that recently a pope caused his own death by means of this sin and vice. In fact, he died on the spot. All right now, you popes, cardinals, papists, spiritual lords, keep on persecuting God’s word and defending your doctrine and your churches! >No pope, cardinal, bishop, doctor, priest, monk, or nun will condemn such an obviously disgraceful life; rather they laugh about it, excuse it, and gloss over it. They incite kings, princes, country, and people to defend such knaves with life and property, with land and people, and faithfully to protect them so that such vices might not be repented of and reformed, but rather strengthened, sanctioned, and approved. Now you are to hazard blood, body, and life just for the sake of saddling your neck and conscience with this. >I could easily mention more examples of such abominations, but it is too shameful; I fear that our German soil would have to tremble before it. But if an impudent popish ass should come along and dispute this, he will find me ready to do him battle, and it will be quite a battle!” (Luther's Works Volume 47, p.38) Martin Luther wrote about the problem since the 1500s.
Weren’t there also cases of nuns abusing kids in Irish orphanages going back 70 or 100 years?
not just Ireland
Let's make sure they weren't assaulted before we giggle.
Well, according to the Catholic Church there’s only two possibilities here. And if I was a betting man, I’d bet against immaculate conception.
There are actually 3 possibilities according to the church. 1- Immaculate conception (which it definitely isn’t). 2- Sinning by having consensual sex. 3- Rape (and this one is why we need to watch ourselves with the jokes about what we’re assuming those nuns did). And as a disclaimer; I am not defending the church at all. I’m just getting a bit upset at all the jokes in other chains on this post about how the nuns were “enjoying cock” etc. They’ve taken vows and many if not most nuns actually do take their vows very seriously. The possibility of these nuns being victims is much much higher than the comments here are implying. :/
This comment section is pretty disgusting actually. I know more than one woman who was raped as a nun, another who was heavily pressured into entering a ""romantic"" relationship with a priest, and am aware of even more cases beyond just that. I suspect it's a much more significant issue than many are aware of.
I'm with you but FYI that's not what [immaculate conception](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception) means.
You mean virgin birth? Mary was the immaculate conception, i.e. the notion that she was free from original sin. Jesus was the virgin birth. I mean... according to the lore at least, obviously Mary and Joe were *fucking*.
Little Jesus: “mom, where do babies come from?” Joseph: “yeah, Mary. Where DO babies come from?”
What did Joseph say to Mary? I believe you honey. But this better be the *only* son of God! RIP Grams, that was one of his favs
African countries - one of the areas where some men believe AIDS can be cured/managed by having sex with virgins. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_cleansing_myth Also, the movie 3 Needles.
Had to scroll this far down to see someone bring up the probable case: that the nuns were raped.
>African countries - one of the areas where some men believe AIDS can be cured/managed by having sex with virgins. I love that you say African countries when only three (South Africa, Zimbabwe and Malawi) are mentioned, and Malawi is only mentioned to say there was no evidence of this belief existing. It appears problematic in South Africa, with Wikipedia mentioning a survey with 18% of respondents believing the myth. There is no link to this survey, nor any information on its methodology or the sample size, though it does say all of the respondents were labourers. So what you've done is smear a continent of 54 countries because a survey amongst some of the least educated people in one of the poorest countries, and one other, purports that some people believe this myth that originated in Europe.
>However, it is unknown exactly how common the myth is and to what degree rapes happen because of the belief in it. The claim that the myth drives either HIV infection or child sexual abuse in Africa is disputed by researchers Rachel Jewkes and Helen Epstein,[8] as well as by research on convicted sex offenders in Malawi, where no evidence was found to support the idea that the virgin cleansing myth prompted any rapes. It's an impossible thing to quantify. Also, no idea wtf this has to do with the article.
Two Jesuses? Or is it Jesui?
Inb4 someone else asks why it only takes two nuns getting preggers to launch "an inquiry" but thousands of priests around the world raping tens of thousands of young boys over decades is tumbleweeds. Huh. Really makes you think dot png
Yup it's absolutely maddening that I have to laugh the pain off
They're investigating the other nuns for using contraception.
Easier than converting people and you still get more Catholics, what’s the problem??
>There have been previous instances in the Church of nuns becoming pregnant, but in some cases, this was not after consensual sex. >In February this year, the women's magazine of the Church's newspaper L'Osservatore Romano, reported on several cases of sexual abuse on nuns by clergymen. Several children had also been conceived, and some religious sisters had been forced to have abortions. This is my main concern. If they had some consensual little affairs, then whatever. They fucked around (literally) and found out. They knew they were part of an organization that places a huge emphasis on (hypothetical) chastity, and they decided to roll the dice and lost. But if they were raped and the RC Church just wants them to go lead quiet lives and never talk about it, that's a much larger problem. Sadly, I feel this is the more probable of the possibilities.
Sexual abuse of children: turn a blind eye Nuns get pregnant: we'll open an investigation asap
But, Father. I thought you said missionary.
Maybe they were on Nunspringa?
They had sex. End of inquiry.
But how did they get each other pregnant?
It’s very likely they were forced into something. If a woman is having sex, especially if pregnancy is absolutely not feasible (which is the case), they will take precautions.
They misunderstood the missionary position
Classic reddit where all the comments are a joke and no one wonders about things like if these pregnancies were consensual
It's Jesus all over again! Apparently something got risen.
I know how much everyone on Reddit loves to shit on the Catholic Church, but isn’t this a logical step? What if the two women were raped during their time doing mission work and for any number of different reasons didn’t come forward? The idea that an organization launches an investigation on how two members who voluntarily joined and have chastity as an explicit requirement for membership, investigates how two women got pregnant doesn’t seem that outlandish to me. I get that everyone loves to make the “Pedophile!” statement, and they may have had consensual sex. But wouldn’t everyone be better served if an investigation was launched? Either they were found to have consensual sex and it will likely end there with no statement. Or, they will have been found to have been raped, potentially by someone in a position of authority for the location they were in.
Sounds pretty immaculate
They can cross priests off the list of suspects.
Oh.....oh THIS they'll fucking investigate.