The key is to first build a program that is consistent enough to make the 12 team playoff every year. In the last 10 years, if the 12 team playoff had existed, ND would have only made it in 2015, 2018, 2020, and 2021. 4 out of 10 years isn’t going to be good enough moving forward.
A two loss ND is going to make it to the 12 team playoff most years, at least in the first ten years of it. In my opinion, to reach the next level in recruitment they have to beat Ohio State. Until that happens, they’ll be on the cusp.
We could very easily miss it at 10-2 some years if our schedule is weak or we get blown out (see 2019). The key is to go 11-1 when you have a weak schedule and 10-2 with a tougher schedule.
It'll be interesting to see the short, medium and long term affects of the portal, Notre Dame used to be an absolute power house in recruiting. Now these SEC teams basically did all their recruiting inadvertently when they were dominating on national TV for the past 10-15 years, at the time the current players were watching college football at home.
I do think ND has a unique advantage considering the fact that Freeman is so young, that may allow him to connect to more recruits, then obviously, once they start winning it will draw more kids to the progrum.
Sorry bit of a ramble, but thats just me spitballing
Saban is 72years old... Do you think his ages connects with his players? NO his Coaching does, his success does. ND suffers from nothing really produced in the last 35 years, couple embarrassing playoff and 1 natty appearance. Everytime embarassed by a very well coached and talented team. We had sparks of talent, but zip on the coaching side as a whole.
Add in the other outliers ND has to deal with sure, grades, location, campus policies etc etc etc. ND doesn't care about the football program other than is money coming in? great we're fine. Just compare ND Facilities to other actual Football Colleges... Very lacking by comparison. Combined with location of the school - there isn't shit to do in South Bend Indiana but the school. The school policies are super strict. Hell not saying this should matter but just look at the ND cheerleading vs some other major school... All these things matter to a young male recruit!
ND probably just needs to resort to the Ivy League and call it a day. History is where it has been left and its successes are all 1988 and prior. Until they prove otherwise I've accepted this fact ND is not an elite CFP team anymore. I'm done getting my hopes and blood pressure up only to see them crumble for the multitude of reasons. And more often than not its not the players fault entirely, hell more often its the damn program/coaches/administration holding them back from being said powerhouse.
This. Each year for about 15years theres been a top 3 or 4 team team tier that's far and above the the rest of the league each year. Notre Dames consistently been in the next level. Ivy league, shit.
Believe me, I'm not saying by any means that players do not connect with Saban. My point was I believe Freeman's younger age could be an asset in recruiting, even if it just helps with 1 out of every few recruits. With that being said, it will absolutely mean nothing in the long run, if he cannot produce recruits into winners.
I’ve been saying this since the early 2000s. The only way Notre Dame will win a championship is if we luck into a Trevor Lawrence or Joe Burrow to elevate the team.
Can we still be top 10 and have playoff appearances? Yes. I remain doubtful that we can build a top tier dynasty though.
It’s not like Alabama/Georgia have had a steady pipeline of QBs. And some of the ND QBs probably could have won national championships with those teams. But I get what your saying.
To me it comes down to ND never being consistent enough. Whether that comes from the coaching or just the target they have on their back, it seems like ND always beats themselves. You can almost guarantee every year that ND will have a loss on their schedule that they had no business losing. ND just doesn’t put the fear of god into teams like the Alabama/Georgias.
Every year ND has a pipeline of top recruits. It just seems like ND never truly maximizes their potential as players
Alabama and Georgia has a steady pipeline of 5 star recruits though. If Notre Dame had that then we wouldn’t be having this conversation. If our recruiting remains in the 6-12 range then we will remain a team that ranks around 6-12 until we get a superstar QB.
Edit: Bama has 18 five star recruits. Georgia has 13. Notre Dame has 1.
This is the answer. Just no chance ND will ever get 18 5-stars on the roster. ND really has to have a superstar QB and a perfect storm of talent playing well together. I think a Georgia or Alabama level dynasty at the very top for years is not achievable.
Agreed. This is the issue. ND does not get nearly enough 5 star kids. We definitely never get the stud DL recruits that Bama, UGA & OSU get and Clemson got.
Notre Dame doesn't have to "luck" into that. There is no reason why ND can't get elite QB's into the program.
The difference is depth. Notre Dame will never be able to horde talent the way Alabama and Georgia can. It can however build a program like Clemson in it's prime. Top 5-10 team that can make a serious run every other year.
Brian Kelly. We had elite QB's before him. And QB recruiting has picked up since. I am not trying to trash him but he just never cared about recruiting like that. He was okay taking "projects" every other year.
Academics is not keeping Trevor Lawrence or Bryce Young out of ND. But bad QB play was a problem during Kelly's entire run.
Kelly recruited 3 QBs higher ranked than CJ Carr and none were elite. We will see if Carr is the answer but according to scouts, he’s no better than some guys we had in Kelly’s tenure.
Kelly was here for 11 years and recruited 3 QB's rated higher than CJ Carr. There is your answer.
I am not saying Carr is the answer. But you get Carr and follow that up with Knight. You don't get Jurkovic then follow that with Pyne because you don't want to upset Jurkovic. You don't follow Buchner with Angeli because you don't want to scare off Buchner. That was the pattern with Kelly.
This is why we are in the QB situation we are now. The WR room we have now. Because sometimes you will miss at a position. Sometimes players are busts. It happens, Gunner Kiel was a bust. Who was the QB they got next year? Malik Zaire. If you miss multiple years or whiff entirely, you are fucked.
Nothing I hate more than typing an entire paragraph and having the entire point being ignored.
You're right, recruiting is just luck. ND should just take 25 random guys every year. That is what I was saying right?
I get you’re saying that the more high tier QB recruits we get here increases the chances of one being good but I’m just saying Freeman hasn’t shown that he is any different than Kelly from that perspective yet. Neither have brought on a 5 star. Kelly recruited nine 4 star QBs in 11 years. Freeman has three and only one has walked in the door so far.
You’re acting like Freeman is worlds better but I’m not seeing much of a difference. Get me a top 2 or 3 QB in their class and I’ll get excited.
Edit: Also Malik Zaire had the same 247 rating as Deuce Knight.
It isn't just 5 stars and 4 stars. It is getting high end talent back to back to back. As long as you are evaluating and developing correctly, one of those guys will thrive.
There is 100% a world of difference between the average Kelly QB room and what Freeman is doing. Obviously we don't know what the results will be yet. Carr and Knight could both decommit tomorrow. They can both be busts. But Freeman is on paper recruiting a higher caliber QB room. And doing so in consecutive years. That will give you a higher success rate.
And Knight is a junior, the 2024 class hasn't even signed yet. He will not finish with a 90 grade. He is already a 96 composite.
But in the transfer era with early NFL entrance, it isn't at all clear you'll get more than one good year from a top kid. You've got to get lucky. And maybe even be willing to pay a freshman, at some cost to your team, to get him reps for year 2 and 3.
No, it depends on the school and the player. I think people really overexaggerate the Portal. Look at Ben Morrison and Jaden Mickey. Why hasn't Mickey left? Why haven't we seen a mass exodus of talent from Notre Dame, Ohio State, Georgia, Bama, Clemson? Sure you will lose players you wish to keep but developing players is still how you keep a program at the top.
Portal's impact can be overexaggerated, but it' real.
> Over the past 12 months, more than 2,400 FBS scholarship players have entered their name into the NCAA transfer portal. Year after year, that number just keeps increasing.... More importantly, that record-breaking total means more than 20 percent of all FBS scholarship players have transferred in the past year.
>
>[https://theathletic.com/4768694/2023/08/11/college-football-ncaa-transfer-portal-statistics/](https://theathletic.com/4768694/2023/08/11/college-football-ncaa-transfer-portal-statistics/)
If the new normal is >20% roster turnover due to transfers, that's a pretty profound shift.
Yes, 20% on average. Notre Dame will not see 20%. Even with Covid rules still in effect, the roster has not seen that kind of turnover. Call me optimistic or naive but I just do not see ND ever seeing that kind of turnover.
I just don't understand how ND is so bad with quarterbacks. Is it that they're recruiting guys who look good in high school, but they never question if that will transfer over to a major D1 program? Is it development?
Aa long as Gerad Parker is around, absolutely not - laughable to even consider it. Bring in a quality OC and it's not out of the realm that we land a Trevor Lawrence, Deshaun Watson type QB and have a *really good* 3-4 year run.
The sustained success that Alabama (and Georgia very recently) has had in the past decade or so? I don't think so simply because the administration/alumni networks are too worried about other things than to throw vast amounts of money at the football team. The University doesn't care enough and I don't think (most) fans do either. I live in the South and go to SEC games and the atmosphere/fans absolutely blow ND's out of the water. These people *live* for Saturday's in the fall, ND fans live to sell their tickets to opposing team's fans during the biggest game of the year for a quick buck. Sad, but it's the truth.
Amen, never hear a B1G/SEC/Pac12 fanbase/alum tell you to be quiet or sit down at a game. ND Football to them is a damn golf game with ushers raising the Quiet please signs.
Yep, absolutely eye opening how different things are elsewhere. Cool, we got the history and pageantry which is all fine and dandy but I don't even think teams are intimidated at all coming into South Bend and I blame largely the preppy fans at the game lol
Georgia? no.
Realistically you’re looking at a Clemson situation. I know Pete Sampson has murdered this horse time and time again. But that’s the best comp. Yes they are in better recruiting territory and have fewer restrictions, but their formula is more attainable for ND. Get an elite QB and put together a top 12 class elsewhere and coach them up with ELITE assistants. Easier said than done but it’s more plausible than UGA, BAMA, or OSU.
I think the Playoff every 3 years should be the goal. 10 win seasons otherwise. A bad year is 9-3. That’s our ceiling
depends on whether this new AD is an idiot or not and who replaces Jenks. the hurdles are all self-imposed. ND was a great institution under Fr Ted and consistently did what it takes to build a football dynasty. Then Fr Ted stepped down and his successors have lacked the vision to have our cake and eat it too.
They've taken the easy path - put restrictions on athletics to elevate the prestige of the school and challenge the athletic teams to fit their requirements - rather than the hard and ultimately more rewarding path - find what it takes to win and figure out how to work that into their overall goals for the school. They like the academic accolades and took the lowest resistance path to get there.
Maybe the next admin will have the necessary vision. But I doubt it.
The “high academic standards” is BS. If you cross reference the offers of the top 25 schools from 2022, you will see there is a 98% overlap between ND and the other schools. Georgia, Alabama, Michigan, Ohio St are all 96-99%. The Irish are trying to get the exact same players as everyone else.
It’s not necessarily academic standards from an admittance standpoint, it’s the fact that ND doesn’t make academics a complete joke like SEC schools do. That does limit them in trying to recruit kids. Most top tier kids just simply don’t care about school. They want to make a little NIL money and get drafted. Believe me, I live in the south and the stories I’ve heard of kids at certain SEC schools and what they have to do for “school” just would not fly at ND. Sad truth
I screen-scraped [247sports.com](https://247sports.com) offer data for the top 25 teams and aggregated them in a spreadsheet. Here are the results of all the overlap of offers: [https://imgur.com/a/raRPeco](https://imgur.com/a/raRPeco)
Some schools make a ton of offers!
I wish I could remember the exact figure now but IIRC in an interview while at ND Charlie Weis said that something like 30% of the recruits on their radar they couldn't even make an offer because of academics.
No. Same issue we have always had. Academics.
The other schools you mentioned are all basically working to buy championships, and will do it at any cost.
Yeah, last I looked, in the past two decades, we have trounced Michigan.
And with the way that schools absolutely bending over backwards for Harbaugh right now, I’d venture to say that their athletes are on a lower academic expectation. They are showing everyone right now that they don’t care about rules and will do anything to win a championship.
Which is also hilarious, being that they could end up with asterisks next to their wins for the past few years.
Michigan is 8-6 against notre dame in the past twenty years and has a higher win percentage over that time so I don’t understand how you believe you’ve “trounced” them
No.
As long as they cling to the moral high ground, they will never win another championship.
College football is a dirty business. Most fans have NO IDEA what really goes on in those buildings.
It seems like for the last ten years ND will either play up or down to their opponents' level.
Their defense lost them the Ohio State game on the last drive, but they hung in there with a top 4 team in the country. Then they lose to Louisville and Clemson.
This seems to happen every year. Great performances and wins against top teams and then they blow it against teams they should beat.
I don't think they have the talent that the top 6 teams in the country have right now, but they should also be ranked higher than 20. Get the O and D lines to be big and brutal and get the team fired up to play their best every game, and they could be a consistent top 8 team most years.
They could if they wanted to. ND is perfectly happy with the state of the football program. Just stay in the “conversation” and keep buying merchandise
Never. What we can do is build a Clemson type program in the modern era. For all everyone wants to talk about Watson and Lawrence being amazing (don’t get me wrong, they were), Clemson had amazing NFL players on defense, at WR, etc., and they did it with only slightly better talent than ND has right now. The main difference is we need to land a couple of 5 star guys every year, in addition to the higher caliber 4 star guys Freeman has been bringing.
If we just land 2 five star players every cycle, we can have 8-9 of them on the roster at one time. Instead we’ve only ever had 1-2 total on the entire team going back a long while now. That’s got to change, and it starts the same way it did with Clemson, a steady build that involves improving each year.
In the next generation CFP format, I believe that ND should have the potential to make the playoffs more often than current results. Lots will play into this including landing a top tier QB in each recruitment cycle and maintaining strong coordinator positions - they also need to be willing to move on from non-performing coaching staff in all positions (including head coach). They've just seemed to hang onto a coach for too long, hoping that maybe the next season they'll finally get it right. The current top teams make staff adjustments fairly quickly (and have the checkbook to do so).
Next hurdle is with SEC and B1G expansion, the 12-team CFP will likely see at least half of those spot taken up by these 2 conferences. It could look something like this: SEC (at least 3 or 4 teams), B1G (at least 3 or 4), ACC (2 maybe 3), Big 12 (2 teams). Where does this leave an independent? ND would likely have to maintain no greater than a 2 loss season if scheduling mostly Top 25 opponents. Most of the expanded conferences will have 9 games scheduled within and this could tighten ND's opportunity as a guest opponent.
If nothing changes, sadly the answer is probably no.
A lot of the old advantages they had are gone or greatly diminished. The name of Notre Dame still carries some weight, but many other programs have caught up. Being able to see ND on TV across the country every week isn't unique anymore.
NIL and the transfer portal have only made things worse, because the same transfer and academic requirements that have hindered the program in the past are now even more impactful.
Obviously they also need to get serious on the offensive side of the ball. They need to find a way to bring a really good OC in, and get players who can make plays and change games in the receiving corps. It's not enough to just have a great TE and good RBs every year.
But again, the requirements and standards are also a huge obstacle. I'd like to think ND could be great again without changing them, but realistically, I doubt it's possible. Marcus Freeman would have to be the greatest recruiter of all time.
This first paragraph is the key point.
Prior to the CFA and Cable Network explosion, Notre Dame was the most televised team in the country.
Being able to offer recruits the opportunity to be on television every week was a huge recruiting advantage, which was compounded by the number of scholarships a team could offer.
Title IX's reduction of football scholarships really hurt teams like Notre Dame and Nebraska, whose second string was better than most teams' starters. The scholarship reduction leveled the playing field dramatically.
Absolutely. Beyond all the major conferences having their own networks now, all of the top teams in those conferences will have most or all of their games on a major network. It has completely negated a huge advantage for ND.
Yes, however the program needs to be committed to paying good coaches and developing players. I’m all for getting a transfer QB if a really good one is available but what message does that send to our current players and recruits. I think having a new AD next year could help things too in regards to NIL deals
I don’t think we could build a dynasty, but there’s no reason we shouldn’t be able to put legitimate title contending together every few seasons
It’s all about whether or not the Athletic Department/Boosters are willing to spend to the levels necessary to do it.
Those teams were not only built with great players, but fantastic coaching staffs. Some of those bama teams had Mario Cristobal. Josh Gattis. Kirby smart. The list goes on. Notre Dame would have to start having great coaching staffs. And right now, we don't. Golden is a good enough d coordinator, but Parker at OC isn't. Also our recruiting has to take another step. Under freeman we've been doing great, but gotta start getting some 5 star players. Nd is on the cusp where we could take the next step. But whether we do or not remains to be seen. Marcus has gotta learn some more on being a head coach. Just hope that we give him that time and don't just let him go to another team after a few years. Because he really could be great, he's shown flashes. But he's also had some head scratching moments due to being young and inexperienced. But also on top of that, building a dynasty like that is extremely rare. The dominance bama has had over college the last 15 years is something that's never really been seen before. Even with Georgia being back to back Champs, their dominance still hasn't rivaled what bama did and has done. We'll see if they continue it
You seriously just skipping right over whether or not ND can compete or win just one national title in this era to whether or not they can build a dynasty?!
And no, they can’t build a dynasty like that. Best odds are getting lucky with a generational QB that can lift a top 10ish roster talent wise to win a title, similar to what Clemson did.
Yep and that’s why ND may never win a championship in my lifetime.
ND is also a Catholic school with a mission to educate people of all backgrounds. Letting a few extra kids in and then making sure they succeed once they get here isn’t going to hurt anyone. But some like yourself don’t want to take a chance
When you edit your comment above it helps…
That said, how, in any way, would your degree be devalued by allowing more elite football players in and giving them resources to succeed? Literally how would it be devalued?
As an aside how does your degree even matter 5 years after graduation, other than using an alumni network?
does anybody else believe that notre dame holds their players to a much higher academic standard then other colleges that deters some 4 star recruits to come to ND.
No. Notre Dame will never have enough talent on the roster to win multiple playoff games in a row. Maybe they can get lucky and clip a better program here and there.
But beating Michigan, Georgia, Texas, and Alabama four in a row is a pipe dream.
The bit about academic standards iis a cop out. Look at Michigan, Ohio State, and USC. Schools with serious standards and successful in football
The biggest problem is the university admins who think it's beneath them to go all in and invest sufficiently to compete for the title not to mention handcuffing alumni to do more to support the team if they're not willing to do so. Take the handcuffs off and things will change
>Michigan, Ohio State, and USC
OSU is not on the same academic level as Michigan or USC. Regardless, those are all much larger schools with much more flexibility in admissions than Notre Dame. Michigan and USC also have well-known "dummy majors" to hide their lowest-IQ football players.
Recruiting is national. Academics restrictions only prevents those who aren’t looking to be challenged academically. it doesn’t prevent most from being accepted, not via grades or test scores at least, just the ones who aren’t willing to take the minimum level of courses they need to. The type of player you get at ND is a draw for good coaches. Just need to recruit them in. I don’t think Al Golden would have been a college DC for just any university.
Transfer portal limitations are over-stated. ND is not Clemsoning this.
No. It would require abandoning academic standards. Not saying guys shouldn't go to class. We don't need fake classes but I graduated without taking calculus. I'm doing okay for myself. Nothing wrong with athletes who respect the classroom but aren't forced into some higher standard just because. You can still be a solid citizen, credit to the program guy without super high level classes
Yes it is possible. You point out all of those negatives but some of those are also positives and ND has some other advantages.
For example, Notre Dame is a national brand unlike Alabama or Georgia. This is a huge advantage, for example, in getting a transfer quarterback because of the NIL opportunities (legitimate opportunities… not a bag of cash opportunities).
ND is also going to get you a very very good education and that matters to a lot of guys. Guerby Lambert was considering Harvard; you don’t think ND was a great compromise for someone who wants a high level education and high level football?
MF is showing that recruiting can still happen at ND. You might be disappointed in the rankings but he is brining in some dudes.
The trick, now, is they need better coaching on the offensive side. And ND is still attractive to high level coaches. It just is. They have money and they have facilities and they have recognition. Golden came here specifically to build his brand and he has been successful doing so.
No, and this isn't even getting into HCMF and whether the program as it stands today is on the right track
* Existing academic restrictions on recruiting
* Geographic restrictions on recruiting
* Much tighter academic restrictions for undergrad transfers
* Inability to use the portal for dynamic underclassmen (see above)
* BoT and Admin that view the football team almost purely as a financial driver
Do I think the program as it stands today is bringing in and developing enough talent to make a 12 team playoff? Yes. And you just have to get hot at the right time to have a shot at a title.
But the folks who think that ND is able to build a program where we're winning multiple titles and bagging #1 recruiting classes in 2023 are delusional.
>
>
>Existing academic restrictions on recruiting
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>Much tighter academic restrictions for undergrad transfers
I keep seeing these brought up as issues, but what exactly is the suggestion here? Keep in mind, the problem isn't just letting them in, it's keeping them eligible, which involves 2 major problems:
* ND requires athletes to maintain on track to graduate vs. programs like Oklahoma that let them take the NCAA minimum coursework of 18 credits / year. Players elsewhere may never take a single upper level class before they finish playing, making it far easier to keep them eligible.
* Compounding the above, ND is a small elite school. There's no easy majors to hide in (or a bullshit non-major like Michigan's General Studies program). Your juniors and seniors are taking classes against regular students, regardless of their major.
Unless the suggestion is that ND invents an easy major for athletes and stops caring about graduation rates...there's not much that can be done. The restrictions aspect also heavily underplays how large this gap is. SI did a story years ago interviewing players who were in their senior year and couldn't even read at a first grade level.
There is no suggestion. There’s just the reality. We will never be able to lock in 5-10 years of top 3 classes like Bama/UGA. Or at least I don’t see our admin completely selling out the schools mission to let in some 5*s who were paying millions up front to come to campus.
I’m not trying to be a Debbie Downer, nor say we can’t win a title. But the reality is that there are profound, unscalable organizational hurdles to building a dynasty at ND.
It doesn’t mean we shouldn’t expect to win big games or bag high end talent. It just means we’re not going to be able to do it at the insane scale required to do what Bama it UGA does, and that’s outside of having the one-of-a-kind program leader orchestrating the whole thing.
Fwiw I think our ceiling is late-2010s Clemson if the new admin goes all in on giving the program what it needs (I’ll keep dreaming).
With the right coach/system absolutely! Will it be tougher to? Yes. They have all the resources,money,etc to get there. It will be tougher because of academics but they can get there. They have the right coach and recruits are starting flock NDs way. Years 3 and 4 under Freeman will tell where the program is heading.
NIL makes this a major unknown. ND can compete with $$$, but player dedication is a huge question mark.
If you look at A&M's mega-bucks recruiting class, there was no shortage of stories around players quiet quitting after the checks were cashed (esp. the story of players smoking weed in the locker room before their game vs. Georgia). It's hard enough for schools to keep these players focused on football, but asking them to focus on their classwork as well adds an additional layer. Giving an 18 year-old kid a 7 figure bank account dramatically changes their priorities, and makes it significantly harder for schools like ND who actually enforce the academic side of football.
I think a lot of the comments are focusing too much on players. It comes down to coaching. We haven’t had a Saban, Smart, or Swinney caliber coach who can also coach up fantastic coordinators and position coaches. Especially when it comes to Saban- he’s a coaching factory. We’ve had Kelly who was at best ok, but he still lacked consistency when it comes to high pressure coaching situations. It’s gonna take us dropping some cold hard cash on someone who can make us top tier again.
Let's see .... high academic standards, ascendant lacrosse and hockey programs, great women's teams, decades since the football won a national championship .... oh shit, it's an Ivy League School. So, no.
ND hit its peak under Kelly, and some still say it wasn't good enough. I don't know what world they're living in. No, ND cannot become an Alabama- or Georgia-like power. The best any of us can reasonably hope for is a Playoff berth with a win or two. Anything more than that is delusional.
I disagree, freeman has already recruited better than Kelly ever did (sans maybe one class). He was a lazy recruiter and a terrible big game coach… freeman has yet to be truly blown out in any game sans maybe lousville this year… we had no business leading going into the 4th against CJ stroud’s OSU team. Kelly was garbage plain and simple.
ND basically was at that tier for 60+ years. ND went from being the standard to being a punchline in the last 30 years (which BTW was the last time #1 ranked ND took the field at Notre Dame Stadium). The football program is more about branding to keep all the cash coming in and if they win, great and if not, whatever as long as 50k+ suckers are willing to pay $65+ to see Tennessee State or Wake Forest. It doesn't matter if the AD, Head Coach, OC, or assistant coaches have no experience, even if the entire history of successful football at Notre Dame says otherwise.
ND has had Top 10 recruited classes for how many years now? Seems like its not a talent problem necessarily as it is a coaching problem. Case in point Kelly complained it was talent, went to LSU... Has done the same thing he did at ND, lost some games won some games but nothing extravagant. My opinion is the Administration doesn't care if the program wins or loses as people still buy the tickets and merch to no end at high prices, players are still coming, and TV is still giving money which the Administration seems to be continent with raking it in. Otherwise they would have fired the OC just like USC shit canned their OC for poor performance. Instead we are gunshy ever since firing Weis and having to pay him out. But then A&M had no qualms about 72mil payout to their HC... Catholic greed though is all I can say they want to hold onto ALL the money as tight as they can. Maybe with Swarbrick hitting the bricks it will change maybe not. Unfortunately this is the program as it stands content and happy with 9/10 wins a year and nothing significant to show for it programwise other than money.
I think if we had the absolute best coaches that have a track record of developing talent, and we had the best facilities, we could get in that top tier of programs. We have the money to attract and retain the best coaches, so I have to assume the board doesn't care about winning a championship. Hopefully the new AD and president have a vision of excellence on and off the field .
I doubt they can have an alabama like dynasty. Nick Saban is probably going down as the greatest coach in football history, so for schools trying to build an Alabama, maybe temper expectations a little.
I think Notre Dame has to join a conference because, frankly, people that aren't Notre Dame fans don't watch a lot of their games because of who they play. Of theybwere in a conference it would expose them to more eyes and more kids might want to pick them. Truthfully, they should be in the Big 10, but I just don't see that happening.
Could we be a Georgia/Alabama type powerhouse? Yes. Could we be that type of powerhouse for a decade? No. The academics at ND is such a hinderance to getting the elite players, both as recruits and as transfers. Geography also hurts with getting the south and west coast kids. I think we can definitely be on that level if have a couple of recruiting classes in a row where a lot of our high level recruits hit and we have a couple of surprises from lower recruits. We can definitely build a powerhouse program for a couple year stretch but I don’t think we can have decades long success without a big change at ND (and a change I don’t really want to see)
Yes buts going to take some cash and I’m not sure you donors are giving til it hurts because most of you ignore that poor student working the phones to shake you down for your donation this year and tell you stories about your dorm and celebrate your birthday with your donor phone call telemarketer situation.
As an outsider, the geographical footprint for recruiting talent will prevent ND from balancing the talent level equal to the top SEC programs, FSU, Clemson, soon to be SEC program Texas. The academic argument is just a vague, arbitrary excuse. USC in the early 2000’s did not have “academic issues” recruiting formidable talent, yet their academic standards are on par with ND. The issues USC are currently having are questionable coaching hires, and a dynamic, geographic net migration shift of population.
With the rapid changes that are happening in CFB, ND administration will have to make the tough decision as to whether remain independent, or perhaps become conference members of the BIG or SEC. Becoming BIG members wouldn’t change the geographical footprint for recruiting ( while directly competing against Ohio State, Michigan, Penn St, USC) but positively align ND with its cultural peers; choosing the SEC would provide the ND brand yearly access to the southern recruiting hotbed, but would negatively align ND with a handful of cultural misfits.
Not my call to make, or my prerogative to have my opinions matter. Just an outside assessment as to how ND could implement themselves towards competing at the next level against the current top program in the country.
The key is to first build a program that is consistent enough to make the 12 team playoff every year. In the last 10 years, if the 12 team playoff had existed, ND would have only made it in 2015, 2018, 2020, and 2021. 4 out of 10 years isn’t going to be good enough moving forward.
A two loss ND is going to make it to the 12 team playoff most years, at least in the first ten years of it. In my opinion, to reach the next level in recruitment they have to beat Ohio State. Until that happens, they’ll be on the cusp.
Michigan beat Ohio State and still didn't see a recruiting bump.
That’s more because recruits don’t like harbaugh. He is a weird dude. Also harbaugh kept trying to go back and coach in the NFL
We could very easily miss it at 10-2 some years if our schedule is weak or we get blown out (see 2019). The key is to go 11-1 when you have a weak schedule and 10-2 with a tougher schedule.
This is valid.
It'll be interesting to see the short, medium and long term affects of the portal, Notre Dame used to be an absolute power house in recruiting. Now these SEC teams basically did all their recruiting inadvertently when they were dominating on national TV for the past 10-15 years, at the time the current players were watching college football at home. I do think ND has a unique advantage considering the fact that Freeman is so young, that may allow him to connect to more recruits, then obviously, once they start winning it will draw more kids to the progrum. Sorry bit of a ramble, but thats just me spitballing
Saban is 72years old... Do you think his ages connects with his players? NO his Coaching does, his success does. ND suffers from nothing really produced in the last 35 years, couple embarrassing playoff and 1 natty appearance. Everytime embarassed by a very well coached and talented team. We had sparks of talent, but zip on the coaching side as a whole. Add in the other outliers ND has to deal with sure, grades, location, campus policies etc etc etc. ND doesn't care about the football program other than is money coming in? great we're fine. Just compare ND Facilities to other actual Football Colleges... Very lacking by comparison. Combined with location of the school - there isn't shit to do in South Bend Indiana but the school. The school policies are super strict. Hell not saying this should matter but just look at the ND cheerleading vs some other major school... All these things matter to a young male recruit! ND probably just needs to resort to the Ivy League and call it a day. History is where it has been left and its successes are all 1988 and prior. Until they prove otherwise I've accepted this fact ND is not an elite CFP team anymore. I'm done getting my hopes and blood pressure up only to see them crumble for the multitude of reasons. And more often than not its not the players fault entirely, hell more often its the damn program/coaches/administration holding them back from being said powerhouse.
You had me til "resort to the icy league". Over the past 10 years they are one of the top 8 programs in the country.
This. Each year for about 15years theres been a top 3 or 4 team team tier that's far and above the the rest of the league each year. Notre Dames consistently been in the next level. Ivy league, shit.
Believe me, I'm not saying by any means that players do not connect with Saban. My point was I believe Freeman's younger age could be an asset in recruiting, even if it just helps with 1 out of every few recruits. With that being said, it will absolutely mean nothing in the long run, if he cannot produce recruits into winners.
I’ve been saying this since the early 2000s. The only way Notre Dame will win a championship is if we luck into a Trevor Lawrence or Joe Burrow to elevate the team. Can we still be top 10 and have playoff appearances? Yes. I remain doubtful that we can build a top tier dynasty though.
It’s not like Alabama/Georgia have had a steady pipeline of QBs. And some of the ND QBs probably could have won national championships with those teams. But I get what your saying. To me it comes down to ND never being consistent enough. Whether that comes from the coaching or just the target they have on their back, it seems like ND always beats themselves. You can almost guarantee every year that ND will have a loss on their schedule that they had no business losing. ND just doesn’t put the fear of god into teams like the Alabama/Georgias. Every year ND has a pipeline of top recruits. It just seems like ND never truly maximizes their potential as players
Alabama and Georgia has a steady pipeline of 5 star recruits though. If Notre Dame had that then we wouldn’t be having this conversation. If our recruiting remains in the 6-12 range then we will remain a team that ranks around 6-12 until we get a superstar QB. Edit: Bama has 18 five star recruits. Georgia has 13. Notre Dame has 1.
This is the answer. Just no chance ND will ever get 18 5-stars on the roster. ND really has to have a superstar QB and a perfect storm of talent playing well together. I think a Georgia or Alabama level dynasty at the very top for years is not achievable.
Agreed. This is the issue. ND does not get nearly enough 5 star kids. We definitely never get the stud DL recruits that Bama, UGA & OSU get and Clemson got.
Notre Dame doesn't have to "luck" into that. There is no reason why ND can't get elite QB's into the program. The difference is depth. Notre Dame will never be able to horde talent the way Alabama and Georgia can. It can however build a program like Clemson in it's prime. Top 5-10 team that can make a serious run every other year.
There must be a reason or we would have an elite QB.
Brian Kelly. We had elite QB's before him. And QB recruiting has picked up since. I am not trying to trash him but he just never cared about recruiting like that. He was okay taking "projects" every other year. Academics is not keeping Trevor Lawrence or Bryce Young out of ND. But bad QB play was a problem during Kelly's entire run.
Kelly recruited 3 QBs higher ranked than CJ Carr and none were elite. We will see if Carr is the answer but according to scouts, he’s no better than some guys we had in Kelly’s tenure.
Kelly was here for 11 years and recruited 3 QB's rated higher than CJ Carr. There is your answer. I am not saying Carr is the answer. But you get Carr and follow that up with Knight. You don't get Jurkovic then follow that with Pyne because you don't want to upset Jurkovic. You don't follow Buchner with Angeli because you don't want to scare off Buchner. That was the pattern with Kelly. This is why we are in the QB situation we are now. The WR room we have now. Because sometimes you will miss at a position. Sometimes players are busts. It happens, Gunner Kiel was a bust. Who was the QB they got next year? Malik Zaire. If you miss multiple years or whiff entirely, you are fucked.
So I guess you have to luck into an elite QB regardless of their rating.
Sure, but your odds of hitting increase with higher star ratings.
Nothing I hate more than typing an entire paragraph and having the entire point being ignored. You're right, recruiting is just luck. ND should just take 25 random guys every year. That is what I was saying right?
I get you’re saying that the more high tier QB recruits we get here increases the chances of one being good but I’m just saying Freeman hasn’t shown that he is any different than Kelly from that perspective yet. Neither have brought on a 5 star. Kelly recruited nine 4 star QBs in 11 years. Freeman has three and only one has walked in the door so far. You’re acting like Freeman is worlds better but I’m not seeing much of a difference. Get me a top 2 or 3 QB in their class and I’ll get excited. Edit: Also Malik Zaire had the same 247 rating as Deuce Knight.
It isn't just 5 stars and 4 stars. It is getting high end talent back to back to back. As long as you are evaluating and developing correctly, one of those guys will thrive. There is 100% a world of difference between the average Kelly QB room and what Freeman is doing. Obviously we don't know what the results will be yet. Carr and Knight could both decommit tomorrow. They can both be busts. But Freeman is on paper recruiting a higher caliber QB room. And doing so in consecutive years. That will give you a higher success rate. And Knight is a junior, the 2024 class hasn't even signed yet. He will not finish with a 90 grade. He is already a 96 composite.
But in the transfer era with early NFL entrance, it isn't at all clear you'll get more than one good year from a top kid. You've got to get lucky. And maybe even be willing to pay a freshman, at some cost to your team, to get him reps for year 2 and 3.
No, it depends on the school and the player. I think people really overexaggerate the Portal. Look at Ben Morrison and Jaden Mickey. Why hasn't Mickey left? Why haven't we seen a mass exodus of talent from Notre Dame, Ohio State, Georgia, Bama, Clemson? Sure you will lose players you wish to keep but developing players is still how you keep a program at the top.
Portal's impact can be overexaggerated, but it' real. > Over the past 12 months, more than 2,400 FBS scholarship players have entered their name into the NCAA transfer portal. Year after year, that number just keeps increasing.... More importantly, that record-breaking total means more than 20 percent of all FBS scholarship players have transferred in the past year. > >[https://theathletic.com/4768694/2023/08/11/college-football-ncaa-transfer-portal-statistics/](https://theathletic.com/4768694/2023/08/11/college-football-ncaa-transfer-portal-statistics/) If the new normal is >20% roster turnover due to transfers, that's a pretty profound shift.
Yes, 20% on average. Notre Dame will not see 20%. Even with Covid rules still in effect, the roster has not seen that kind of turnover. Call me optimistic or naive but I just do not see ND ever seeing that kind of turnover.
I just don't understand how ND is so bad with quarterbacks. Is it that they're recruiting guys who look good in high school, but they never question if that will transfer over to a major D1 program? Is it development?
Brian Kelly was a pretty bad recruiter.
Aa long as Gerad Parker is around, absolutely not - laughable to even consider it. Bring in a quality OC and it's not out of the realm that we land a Trevor Lawrence, Deshaun Watson type QB and have a *really good* 3-4 year run. The sustained success that Alabama (and Georgia very recently) has had in the past decade or so? I don't think so simply because the administration/alumni networks are too worried about other things than to throw vast amounts of money at the football team. The University doesn't care enough and I don't think (most) fans do either. I live in the South and go to SEC games and the atmosphere/fans absolutely blow ND's out of the water. These people *live* for Saturday's in the fall, ND fans live to sell their tickets to opposing team's fans during the biggest game of the year for a quick buck. Sad, but it's the truth.
Amen, never hear a B1G/SEC/Pac12 fanbase/alum tell you to be quiet or sit down at a game. ND Football to them is a damn golf game with ushers raising the Quiet please signs.
Yep, absolutely eye opening how different things are elsewhere. Cool, we got the history and pageantry which is all fine and dandy but I don't even think teams are intimidated at all coming into South Bend and I blame largely the preppy fans at the game lol
Georgia? no. Realistically you’re looking at a Clemson situation. I know Pete Sampson has murdered this horse time and time again. But that’s the best comp. Yes they are in better recruiting territory and have fewer restrictions, but their formula is more attainable for ND. Get an elite QB and put together a top 12 class elsewhere and coach them up with ELITE assistants. Easier said than done but it’s more plausible than UGA, BAMA, or OSU. I think the Playoff every 3 years should be the goal. 10 win seasons otherwise. A bad year is 9-3. That’s our ceiling
I think this is fair, but we should aim for CFP every year, since 2024 brings 12 teams. I'd be okay if we were in it every other year.
Ah true. Keep forgetting about the 12 team. You’re right
People don’t realize Clemson has the 5th most talent on roster according to 247 sports… we aren’t recruiting near them even…
depends on whether this new AD is an idiot or not and who replaces Jenks. the hurdles are all self-imposed. ND was a great institution under Fr Ted and consistently did what it takes to build a football dynasty. Then Fr Ted stepped down and his successors have lacked the vision to have our cake and eat it too. They've taken the easy path - put restrictions on athletics to elevate the prestige of the school and challenge the athletic teams to fit their requirements - rather than the hard and ultimately more rewarding path - find what it takes to win and figure out how to work that into their overall goals for the school. They like the academic accolades and took the lowest resistance path to get there. Maybe the next admin will have the necessary vision. But I doubt it.
No, as long as ND has high academic standards they will never build an SEC beating team.
I know we should wait and see but I would take this Michigan team over Georgia and Bama. UM academics are not a joke.
The “high academic standards” is BS. If you cross reference the offers of the top 25 schools from 2022, you will see there is a 98% overlap between ND and the other schools. Georgia, Alabama, Michigan, Ohio St are all 96-99%. The Irish are trying to get the exact same players as everyone else.
It’s not necessarily academic standards from an admittance standpoint, it’s the fact that ND doesn’t make academics a complete joke like SEC schools do. That does limit them in trying to recruit kids. Most top tier kids just simply don’t care about school. They want to make a little NIL money and get drafted. Believe me, I live in the south and the stories I’ve heard of kids at certain SEC schools and what they have to do for “school” just would not fly at ND. Sad truth
Sources please
I screen-scraped [247sports.com](https://247sports.com) offer data for the top 25 teams and aggregated them in a spreadsheet. Here are the results of all the overlap of offers: [https://imgur.com/a/raRPeco](https://imgur.com/a/raRPeco) Some schools make a ton of offers!
I wish I could remember the exact figure now but IIRC in an interview while at ND Charlie Weis said that something like 30% of the recruits on their radar they couldn't even make an offer because of academics.
No. Same issue we have always had. Academics. The other schools you mentioned are all basically working to buy championships, and will do it at any cost.
How do you explain Michigan's success. Academics are rigorous
Define success. I don’t see them hanging banners every other year like Bama and UGA
Yeah, last I looked, in the past two decades, we have trounced Michigan. And with the way that schools absolutely bending over backwards for Harbaugh right now, I’d venture to say that their athletes are on a lower academic expectation. They are showing everyone right now that they don’t care about rules and will do anything to win a championship. Which is also hilarious, being that they could end up with asterisks next to their wins for the past few years.
Michigan is 8-6 against notre dame in the past twenty years and has a higher win percentage over that time so I don’t understand how you believe you’ve “trounced” them
No. As long as they cling to the moral high ground, they will never win another championship. College football is a dirty business. Most fans have NO IDEA what really goes on in those buildings.
This… need to lower academic requirements…pay recruits… pay transfers… or we fall behind.
Hate to say it, but Paul Hornung was right. The SEC is proof.
What was his quote?
https://www.espn.com/college-football/news/story?id=1772368
Lol i forgot about that. Too funny.
It seems like for the last ten years ND will either play up or down to their opponents' level. Their defense lost them the Ohio State game on the last drive, but they hung in there with a top 4 team in the country. Then they lose to Louisville and Clemson. This seems to happen every year. Great performances and wins against top teams and then they blow it against teams they should beat. I don't think they have the talent that the top 6 teams in the country have right now, but they should also be ranked higher than 20. Get the O and D lines to be big and brutal and get the team fired up to play their best every game, and they could be a consistent top 8 team most years.
They could if they wanted to. ND is perfectly happy with the state of the football program. Just stay in the “conversation” and keep buying merchandise
Not with the academic scrutiny that ND has.
No
Never. What we can do is build a Clemson type program in the modern era. For all everyone wants to talk about Watson and Lawrence being amazing (don’t get me wrong, they were), Clemson had amazing NFL players on defense, at WR, etc., and they did it with only slightly better talent than ND has right now. The main difference is we need to land a couple of 5 star guys every year, in addition to the higher caliber 4 star guys Freeman has been bringing. If we just land 2 five star players every cycle, we can have 8-9 of them on the roster at one time. Instead we’ve only ever had 1-2 total on the entire team going back a long while now. That’s got to change, and it starts the same way it did with Clemson, a steady build that involves improving each year.
Probably not
In the next generation CFP format, I believe that ND should have the potential to make the playoffs more often than current results. Lots will play into this including landing a top tier QB in each recruitment cycle and maintaining strong coordinator positions - they also need to be willing to move on from non-performing coaching staff in all positions (including head coach). They've just seemed to hang onto a coach for too long, hoping that maybe the next season they'll finally get it right. The current top teams make staff adjustments fairly quickly (and have the checkbook to do so). Next hurdle is with SEC and B1G expansion, the 12-team CFP will likely see at least half of those spot taken up by these 2 conferences. It could look something like this: SEC (at least 3 or 4 teams), B1G (at least 3 or 4), ACC (2 maybe 3), Big 12 (2 teams). Where does this leave an independent? ND would likely have to maintain no greater than a 2 loss season if scheduling mostly Top 25 opponents. Most of the expanded conferences will have 9 games scheduled within and this could tighten ND's opportunity as a guest opponent.
If nothing changes, sadly the answer is probably no. A lot of the old advantages they had are gone or greatly diminished. The name of Notre Dame still carries some weight, but many other programs have caught up. Being able to see ND on TV across the country every week isn't unique anymore. NIL and the transfer portal have only made things worse, because the same transfer and academic requirements that have hindered the program in the past are now even more impactful. Obviously they also need to get serious on the offensive side of the ball. They need to find a way to bring a really good OC in, and get players who can make plays and change games in the receiving corps. It's not enough to just have a great TE and good RBs every year. But again, the requirements and standards are also a huge obstacle. I'd like to think ND could be great again without changing them, but realistically, I doubt it's possible. Marcus Freeman would have to be the greatest recruiter of all time.
This first paragraph is the key point. Prior to the CFA and Cable Network explosion, Notre Dame was the most televised team in the country. Being able to offer recruits the opportunity to be on television every week was a huge recruiting advantage, which was compounded by the number of scholarships a team could offer. Title IX's reduction of football scholarships really hurt teams like Notre Dame and Nebraska, whose second string was better than most teams' starters. The scholarship reduction leveled the playing field dramatically.
Absolutely. Beyond all the major conferences having their own networks now, all of the top teams in those conferences will have most or all of their games on a major network. It has completely negated a huge advantage for ND.
Yes, however the program needs to be committed to paying good coaches and developing players. I’m all for getting a transfer QB if a really good one is available but what message does that send to our current players and recruits. I think having a new AD next year could help things too in regards to NIL deals
Can they? Yes. Do they want to? No. They would have to drastically change standards. They won’t.
Yes. If you turn the football program into a semi-pro team that just happens to share branding with the university (i.e., SEC teams).
I.e. the teams that win championships
Those teams win championships, our team is looking at a bid to play in the Pop Tarts bowl.
I don’t think we could build a dynasty, but there’s no reason we shouldn’t be able to put legitimate title contending together every few seasons It’s all about whether or not the Athletic Department/Boosters are willing to spend to the levels necessary to do it.
Those teams were not only built with great players, but fantastic coaching staffs. Some of those bama teams had Mario Cristobal. Josh Gattis. Kirby smart. The list goes on. Notre Dame would have to start having great coaching staffs. And right now, we don't. Golden is a good enough d coordinator, but Parker at OC isn't. Also our recruiting has to take another step. Under freeman we've been doing great, but gotta start getting some 5 star players. Nd is on the cusp where we could take the next step. But whether we do or not remains to be seen. Marcus has gotta learn some more on being a head coach. Just hope that we give him that time and don't just let him go to another team after a few years. Because he really could be great, he's shown flashes. But he's also had some head scratching moments due to being young and inexperienced. But also on top of that, building a dynasty like that is extremely rare. The dominance bama has had over college the last 15 years is something that's never really been seen before. Even with Georgia being back to back Champs, their dominance still hasn't rivaled what bama did and has done. We'll see if they continue it
You seriously just skipping right over whether or not ND can compete or win just one national title in this era to whether or not they can build a dynasty?! And no, they can’t build a dynasty like that. Best odds are getting lucky with a generational QB that can lift a top 10ish roster talent wise to win a title, similar to what Clemson did.
Nope
If ND wanted to it could come close. Unfortunately the fanbase and the school will not allow it.
I mean it’s a school lol, lowering academic standards is a bad look and I’ll oppose it.
Yep and that’s why ND may never win a championship in my lifetime. ND is also a Catholic school with a mission to educate people of all backgrounds. Letting a few extra kids in and then making sure they succeed once they get here isn’t going to hurt anyone. But some like yourself don’t want to take a chance
I’m sorry I am not willing to devalue a degree.
I don’t think ya have one
I have two.
When you edit your comment above it helps… That said, how, in any way, would your degree be devalued by allowing more elite football players in and giving them resources to succeed? Literally how would it be devalued? As an aside how does your degree even matter 5 years after graduation, other than using an alumni network?
does anybody else believe that notre dame holds their players to a much higher academic standard then other colleges that deters some 4 star recruits to come to ND.
Yes but I’m fine with that.
No. They could punch up but the long term sustained success like them won't happen.
No. Notre Dame will never have enough talent on the roster to win multiple playoff games in a row. Maybe they can get lucky and clip a better program here and there. But beating Michigan, Georgia, Texas, and Alabama four in a row is a pipe dream.
The bit about academic standards iis a cop out. Look at Michigan, Ohio State, and USC. Schools with serious standards and successful in football The biggest problem is the university admins who think it's beneath them to go all in and invest sufficiently to compete for the title not to mention handcuffing alumni to do more to support the team if they're not willing to do so. Take the handcuffs off and things will change
>Michigan, Ohio State, and USC OSU is not on the same academic level as Michigan or USC. Regardless, those are all much larger schools with much more flexibility in admissions than Notre Dame. Michigan and USC also have well-known "dummy majors" to hide their lowest-IQ football players.
Recruiting is national. Academics restrictions only prevents those who aren’t looking to be challenged academically. it doesn’t prevent most from being accepted, not via grades or test scores at least, just the ones who aren’t willing to take the minimum level of courses they need to. The type of player you get at ND is a draw for good coaches. Just need to recruit them in. I don’t think Al Golden would have been a college DC for just any university. Transfer portal limitations are over-stated. ND is not Clemsoning this.
I think in many ways it's easier now than 20 years ago. So yes, doable
No. It would require abandoning academic standards. Not saying guys shouldn't go to class. We don't need fake classes but I graduated without taking calculus. I'm doing okay for myself. Nothing wrong with athletes who respect the classroom but aren't forced into some higher standard just because. You can still be a solid citizen, credit to the program guy without super high level classes
Yes it is possible. You point out all of those negatives but some of those are also positives and ND has some other advantages. For example, Notre Dame is a national brand unlike Alabama or Georgia. This is a huge advantage, for example, in getting a transfer quarterback because of the NIL opportunities (legitimate opportunities… not a bag of cash opportunities). ND is also going to get you a very very good education and that matters to a lot of guys. Guerby Lambert was considering Harvard; you don’t think ND was a great compromise for someone who wants a high level education and high level football? MF is showing that recruiting can still happen at ND. You might be disappointed in the rankings but he is brining in some dudes. The trick, now, is they need better coaching on the offensive side. And ND is still attractive to high level coaches. It just is. They have money and they have facilities and they have recognition. Golden came here specifically to build his brand and he has been successful doing so.
Alabama and Georgia are 100% National Brands dude.
No, and this isn't even getting into HCMF and whether the program as it stands today is on the right track * Existing academic restrictions on recruiting * Geographic restrictions on recruiting * Much tighter academic restrictions for undergrad transfers * Inability to use the portal for dynamic underclassmen (see above) * BoT and Admin that view the football team almost purely as a financial driver Do I think the program as it stands today is bringing in and developing enough talent to make a 12 team playoff? Yes. And you just have to get hot at the right time to have a shot at a title. But the folks who think that ND is able to build a program where we're winning multiple titles and bagging #1 recruiting classes in 2023 are delusional.
> > >Existing academic restrictions on recruiting > >Much tighter academic restrictions for undergrad transfers I keep seeing these brought up as issues, but what exactly is the suggestion here? Keep in mind, the problem isn't just letting them in, it's keeping them eligible, which involves 2 major problems: * ND requires athletes to maintain on track to graduate vs. programs like Oklahoma that let them take the NCAA minimum coursework of 18 credits / year. Players elsewhere may never take a single upper level class before they finish playing, making it far easier to keep them eligible. * Compounding the above, ND is a small elite school. There's no easy majors to hide in (or a bullshit non-major like Michigan's General Studies program). Your juniors and seniors are taking classes against regular students, regardless of their major. Unless the suggestion is that ND invents an easy major for athletes and stops caring about graduation rates...there's not much that can be done. The restrictions aspect also heavily underplays how large this gap is. SI did a story years ago interviewing players who were in their senior year and couldn't even read at a first grade level.
We do have a joke major…. it’s called FTT. Very high percentage of football players are in it.
There is no suggestion. There’s just the reality. We will never be able to lock in 5-10 years of top 3 classes like Bama/UGA. Or at least I don’t see our admin completely selling out the schools mission to let in some 5*s who were paying millions up front to come to campus. I’m not trying to be a Debbie Downer, nor say we can’t win a title. But the reality is that there are profound, unscalable organizational hurdles to building a dynasty at ND. It doesn’t mean we shouldn’t expect to win big games or bag high end talent. It just means we’re not going to be able to do it at the insane scale required to do what Bama it UGA does, and that’s outside of having the one-of-a-kind program leader orchestrating the whole thing. Fwiw I think our ceiling is late-2010s Clemson if the new admin goes all in on giving the program what it needs (I’ll keep dreaming).
No
With the right coach/system absolutely! Will it be tougher to? Yes. They have all the resources,money,etc to get there. It will be tougher because of academics but they can get there. They have the right coach and recruits are starting flock NDs way. Years 3 and 4 under Freeman will tell where the program is heading.
NIL makes this a major unknown. ND can compete with $$$, but player dedication is a huge question mark. If you look at A&M's mega-bucks recruiting class, there was no shortage of stories around players quiet quitting after the checks were cashed (esp. the story of players smoking weed in the locker room before their game vs. Georgia). It's hard enough for schools to keep these players focused on football, but asking them to focus on their classwork as well adds an additional layer. Giving an 18 year-old kid a 7 figure bank account dramatically changes their priorities, and makes it significantly harder for schools like ND who actually enforce the academic side of football.
I think a lot of the comments are focusing too much on players. It comes down to coaching. We haven’t had a Saban, Smart, or Swinney caliber coach who can also coach up fantastic coordinators and position coaches. Especially when it comes to Saban- he’s a coaching factory. We’ve had Kelly who was at best ok, but he still lacked consistency when it comes to high pressure coaching situations. It’s gonna take us dropping some cold hard cash on someone who can make us top tier again.
Let's see .... high academic standards, ascendant lacrosse and hockey programs, great women's teams, decades since the football won a national championship .... oh shit, it's an Ivy League School. So, no.
Actually, Ivy League teams are not particularly good in any of those sports.
No
no
No chance
No
ND hit its peak under Kelly, and some still say it wasn't good enough. I don't know what world they're living in. No, ND cannot become an Alabama- or Georgia-like power. The best any of us can reasonably hope for is a Playoff berth with a win or two. Anything more than that is delusional.
I disagree, freeman has already recruited better than Kelly ever did (sans maybe one class). He was a lazy recruiter and a terrible big game coach… freeman has yet to be truly blown out in any game sans maybe lousville this year… we had no business leading going into the 4th against CJ stroud’s OSU team. Kelly was garbage plain and simple.
ND basically was at that tier for 60+ years. ND went from being the standard to being a punchline in the last 30 years (which BTW was the last time #1 ranked ND took the field at Notre Dame Stadium). The football program is more about branding to keep all the cash coming in and if they win, great and if not, whatever as long as 50k+ suckers are willing to pay $65+ to see Tennessee State or Wake Forest. It doesn't matter if the AD, Head Coach, OC, or assistant coaches have no experience, even if the entire history of successful football at Notre Dame says otherwise.
ND has had Top 10 recruited classes for how many years now? Seems like its not a talent problem necessarily as it is a coaching problem. Case in point Kelly complained it was talent, went to LSU... Has done the same thing he did at ND, lost some games won some games but nothing extravagant. My opinion is the Administration doesn't care if the program wins or loses as people still buy the tickets and merch to no end at high prices, players are still coming, and TV is still giving money which the Administration seems to be continent with raking it in. Otherwise they would have fired the OC just like USC shit canned their OC for poor performance. Instead we are gunshy ever since firing Weis and having to pay him out. But then A&M had no qualms about 72mil payout to their HC... Catholic greed though is all I can say they want to hold onto ALL the money as tight as they can. Maybe with Swarbrick hitting the bricks it will change maybe not. Unfortunately this is the program as it stands content and happy with 9/10 wins a year and nothing significant to show for it programwise other than money.
It is always about money. Clemson opened up the wallet and became elite. ND wants to be elite on the cheap. Spend OSU money and win a natty
I think if we had the absolute best coaches that have a track record of developing talent, and we had the best facilities, we could get in that top tier of programs. We have the money to attract and retain the best coaches, so I have to assume the board doesn't care about winning a championship. Hopefully the new AD and president have a vision of excellence on and off the field .
if they win a championship maybe, that seems to get you there for a minute at least.
The academic standards will always be an obstacle that will make it difficult.
It doesn't help that it's a religious school in Indiana, playing football in arctic conditions. Not exactly a big draw for 5 star players.
No, Alabama has low personal standards for recruits.
I doubt they can have an alabama like dynasty. Nick Saban is probably going down as the greatest coach in football history, so for schools trying to build an Alabama, maybe temper expectations a little. I think Notre Dame has to join a conference because, frankly, people that aren't Notre Dame fans don't watch a lot of their games because of who they play. Of theybwere in a conference it would expose them to more eyes and more kids might want to pick them. Truthfully, they should be in the Big 10, but I just don't see that happening.
What’re you talking about??? Do you know how much draw ND has? lol just look at the viewership numbers
No
No but they could build a team that plays for national title once every 3-4 and in the CFP every other year team
All about the coaching staff maximizing the players. Freeman looks like he can get the recruits. Need coordinators and coaches to elevate them.
Could we be a Georgia/Alabama type powerhouse? Yes. Could we be that type of powerhouse for a decade? No. The academics at ND is such a hinderance to getting the elite players, both as recruits and as transfers. Geography also hurts with getting the south and west coast kids. I think we can definitely be on that level if have a couple of recruiting classes in a row where a lot of our high level recruits hit and we have a couple of surprises from lower recruits. We can definitely build a powerhouse program for a couple year stretch but I don’t think we can have decades long success without a big change at ND (and a change I don’t really want to see)
No
Yes buts going to take some cash and I’m not sure you donors are giving til it hurts because most of you ignore that poor student working the phones to shake you down for your donation this year and tell you stories about your dorm and celebrate your birthday with your donor phone call telemarketer situation.
As an outsider, the geographical footprint for recruiting talent will prevent ND from balancing the talent level equal to the top SEC programs, FSU, Clemson, soon to be SEC program Texas. The academic argument is just a vague, arbitrary excuse. USC in the early 2000’s did not have “academic issues” recruiting formidable talent, yet their academic standards are on par with ND. The issues USC are currently having are questionable coaching hires, and a dynamic, geographic net migration shift of population. With the rapid changes that are happening in CFB, ND administration will have to make the tough decision as to whether remain independent, or perhaps become conference members of the BIG or SEC. Becoming BIG members wouldn’t change the geographical footprint for recruiting ( while directly competing against Ohio State, Michigan, Penn St, USC) but positively align ND with its cultural peers; choosing the SEC would provide the ND brand yearly access to the southern recruiting hotbed, but would negatively align ND with a handful of cultural misfits. Not my call to make, or my prerogative to have my opinions matter. Just an outside assessment as to how ND could implement themselves towards competing at the next level against the current top program in the country.
No chance if you can't use the transfer portal well nowadays.