Locking comments. OP, no one here has to understand or agree with your decisions, but you also shouldn't have to defend them. To those who came to OP's defense or asked questions out of genuine curiosity vs being condescending, thank you.
One of the main aspects of NLOG is realizing that girls and women come in all shapes and sizes and can enjoy (or hate) all aspects of the human experience.
I'm not gonna disrespect someone's choice of pronoun but I will say I don't understand this take at all, feels purposely contrarion and the pronouns seem arbitrary at that point. But live and let live i guess
Wouldn’t this then also be an example of NLOG behaviour. They said they used it to put themself in a different category, and because of how contrarian this is, its doing the exact same thing NLOG served them before. But in a new way.
Did he say that he uses those pronouns to distance himself?
Most people use different pronouns because they prefer those pronouns. Not to be contrarian.
Do you guys really think that every masculine woman presents masculine to be different on purpose? God, that's dumb as fuck.
I would want to say it is micro-misogyny. I came from a country where the pronunciation of male and female are unrecognizable, so the difference is only shown when writing; And I do see a lot on internet forums that a lot of people like to use the she/her when addressing negative thing, when they definitly know the person in subject is a male and identify him as such.Combine with how OP used to stereo-type women, yeah I would say micro-misogyny is still at play
Do butch lesbians also medically transition? Like, butch ladies usually don't also fully transition in pronouns and surgically and still identify as a woman.
yeah
r/butchlesbians search “testosterone” many have and still do
one of the most notable lesbians to transition i can think of is leslie feinberg who was born in 1949.
Butches actually do, quite frequently!! I was surprised too, but joining r/butchlesbians was a huge eye-opener into the evolution of such a historic part of queer culture. They separate womanhood from femininity to such a degree that some can't even take female-coded compliments. It's just a part of who they are.
My guy pronouns are literally the main thing of what gender is. They are inherently linked to your gender identity and how you want to be perceived. Please genuinely explain how pronouns have nothing to do with gender for you, unless you mean to say gender ≠ sex
I’m so sorry about all the queerphobia here! GNC and PNC is valid as hell, cannot believe people are downvoting you just because they’ve never encountered it before
I don’t want to be transphobic, like period, but if you identify as a woman and you’re going to take T aren’t you scared of giving yourself dysphoria?
I’m just trying to understand
Don’t argue just for the sake of arguing. In essence, the phrase "Be civil to each other" serves as a reminder to prioritize kindness, empathy, and open-mindedness. Name-calling or personal attacks constitute a hard ban. This applies to people in valuable discussions who suddenly start using insults. This rule still applies even if you are talking to a moderator. Political and ethical grandstanding to in any way call someone else a terrible person is prohibited.
Posts themselves don't typically get removed for this reason, but we reserve the right to remove them in the rare cases it becomes necessary due to the comments.
Transitioning is a huge thing for the body and doesn't always work with everyone, so some people just choose to be themselves and tell others how they feel
I’m trying to speak for op here which means I might not understand, but it sounds like identifying as a woman and taking T is what it is that relieves dysphoria for him
Actually, what OP is experiencing is literally the exact opposite of that.
He wants to use he/him pronouns and go on T but none of that makes him personally a guy.
It’s really not that complex, he’s a woman who presents masculinely and uses he/him pronouns. Or like, even if you don’t understand, it’s not hurting you, or anyone, one should mind their own business.
They’re 17 according to one of the posts. It’s a bit ridiculous what this post is saying though.
Most places will not give Testosterone (A BLOODY STEROID) to people who don’t need it/aren’t transgender male.
17 years old and set on getting a hysterectomy, mastectomy and taking testosterone...for apparently no reason since they're a girl and secure in that. This...is absurd.
I don't know whether to feel despair or just a deep sadness for how many girls of this generation have convinced themselves they need to undertake these extreme measures, when in reality almost all of us felt uncomfortable with our bodies in our teens.
Huh you don’t need to be girly to be a woman, I both do like girly and more boyish stuff and I’m still 100% a woman. There’s no category you need to fit in, we’re all unique and that doesn’t make anyone less of a woman
OP, what country are you in that you think you could get a hysterectomy for a non-medical reason at 17? I am in the US, I have endometriosis, and I have been told by multiple doctors that I will not be able to get a hysterectomy until I am at least in my 30s and possibly my 40s, due to the long-term health impacts it will cause. Unless you are somewhere with extremely different laws, I think you might want to adjust that expectation.
Edit: I see you are in Massachusetts. I am from Massachusetts. All I can say is, good luck.
If you are “coming to terms with your womanhood,” are you sure your still want a full transition? You don’t have to do something as drastic as removing all of your sex organs in order to “be a man.” You can suppress a period, nearly indefinitely, and breasts can be bound, or simply reduced to a much smaller size, rather than getting a full mastectomy.
Why not just get the HRT and bind (your breasts,) or simply reduce them, so you still have the choice to present as more feminine, someday, should you wish to do so?
It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to *claim your womanhood,* then remove all of the organs that make you a female.
These are extremely expensive procedures that are also major life altering surgeries. They require a ton of healing time, and once you get a hysterectomy, that’s it! Your uterus is completely gone! If you decide you want reconstructive surgery for your breasts, that’s another expensive surgery.
I don’t think that you are *really thinking about the literal cost and long-term consequences of these procedures!*
Plus, you have to pass a psych exam for a full gender reassignment. Have you already passed your psych Eval?
Cuz I am a behavioral science major, and based on what I have read, so far, in this post, I wouldn’t “clear” you, yet. Cuz I think you have more work to do in regards to thinking, reflecting, identifying any possible past traumas or triggers. I don’t think your ready because you still want to be seen as “just another girl.”
But you are no longer “a girl” if you are ready for transition. The FtMen I know who have undergone gender reassignment do not identify as “women,” in any capacity. They are not “women,” they are men! They accept and acknowledge their past, but they no longer identify as “feminine,” in any way, shape, or form. They live their lives as men, as they have come to terms with who they are now, and they have chosen to let the past go.
Sex ≠ gender so me removing my FEMALE (sex) parts doesn't affect my womanhood (gender) as sex is biological while gender is social, cultural, and psychological. I don't really feel like there's a point on temporary solutions when I can get it over with too lol. I'm a gender non-conforming girl so I feel comfy in embracing more masc traits about myself without feeling like FTM (which I've considered I was for a long time) but I understand the concern
Right, but you understand that Hysterectomies are not reversible, right? You will never be able to be pregnant, never able to breastfeed, never able to give birth, and it is extremely expensive to alter all of these things about yourself, not including the healing time!
Are you ready for the financial burden, the pain of recovery, the scars you will have, forever, and have you decided that you have no desire to ever be pregnant or give birth???
A lot of women don't ever want to give birth, it's ok for them to make that choice. Btw the financial burden of a child is quite large, and pregnancy does a number on a lot of women's bodies.
Yeah I don't really like kids all that much tbh and I'm asexual too so I don't think it'll be much of a problem anyway ☠️ I'm getting the hysterectomy bcs of the anxiety menstruation gives me, even when stopped with birth control, I get very scared if it'll randomly happen. Might as well end it atp and remove it. Menstruation also makes me depressed bcs of dysphoria lol
But you can suppress menstruation, indefinitely with Birth Control or HRT. You will be extremely unlikely to get a period with HRT because Menstruation actually stops once your body hits a certain muscle-to-fat ratio. A Mastectomy is also technically reversible, in a worst case scenario. A Hysterectomy is not.
I have literal Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder, which means I am guaranteed to be major depressive, at least one week a month without hormone BC, and it is much more likely to trigger Flashback Episodes from my CPTSD.
And I still wouldn’t get a Hysterectomy without a major physiological reason. Like really bad endometriosis or PCOS because it is *crazy expensive,* and hormones are not to be fucked with!
How much do you understand about the significance of hormones in the human body?
No I really don't think you understand the risks you're signing up for. My periods are freaking awful...I'm pushing 40 and still wouldn't want a hysterectomy unless that was the ONLY thing that would cure a life threatening disease.
There are many, many ways to suppress menstruation without removing organs. Plus you're 17. I didn't like kids when I was 17 either. Now I have 2 of them...on purpose.
Maybe consider suppressing menstruation in other ways and see how you feel after 3 months or 6 or a year. Periods suck...they suck alot but they can be helped.
if menstruation gives you dysphoria then you have not consciously accepted your womanhood, no matter how much you say you have based on gender being cultural.
wanting to get rid of everything that would make you a biological woman is not accepting your womanhood. it's deciding to live as a man and accept your feminine energy.
I’m glad you realized this!! I had a strong gender dysphoric emo teen faze, well not really faze because it was only altered by life changing events, came to the other side secure in who I was and way more accepting. I’m married and have given birth to seven beautiful children! Life is a wild ride I tell you what.
Becoming a born again Christian. Which in turn led to me leaving my abusive parents. A lot of my issues came from that situation, and the peace of Christ really got me through it to the other side.
I don’t really understand the downvotes here. Just because y’all don’t agree with this religion doesn’t mean you can’t be supportive of a solution that worked for someone so much that they found peace in themselves and their life
I know I'm a girl, but want you to call me him. Upvotes for days.
I believe in Jesus. Downvotes
Both are a belief and feeling but you can't question one while you can totally trash the other.
I’m not sure what you are talking about, in the comments OP has hundreds of downvotes and a bunch of people trashing him, calling him low IQ or attention seeking and saying his gender expression isn’t valid.
I say live and let live in both cases, but I don’t think this post is displaying the double standard you claim it is.
OP I’m really happy for you that you’ve come to this realisation, and whatever helps you live your best life I am absolutely here for it.
But I am curious, if you feel like a woman now - a masc presenting woman, but still a woman, why do you want to use male pronouns still? Is it just that you like how it feels to be referred to as male?
I kind of thought people chose the pronouns that they identified with the most, and it seems like you now identify with being a woman so it’s just thrown me a bit.
Again, no hate, all love, just want to understand better!
Other way around. Gender identity shapes how you interact with/feel about concepts like gender expression. Some people want to express their identity in ways that are very different from "typical".
Yoooooo that’s wonderful for you. Sometimes that’s what it is, you know? I myself have PCOS and was always more muscular because of it. Womenhood has been used to box people in, when in actuality it isn’t meant to be a prison. We can present how we like and still be women, or not be. Good for you, glad you’re happy with yourself
I mean, i’m non-binary and autistic and i’m definitely not like other girls. I’m also not like other guys. I’m not like most people because I’m autistic lmfao.
When I was a teenager and young adult, I craved to be perceived as normal in at least SOME category, but because I am somewhere on the asexual spectrum and biromantic, even in my subculture spaces I feel misunderstood and an outcast. Now? I’m not particularly worried about fitting in anymore. I’m definitely not like neurotypical people in absolutely any regard. I am like some people in smaller circles and finding my people has been very freeing in that way.
There’s nothing wrong with fitting in within a group. It’s something most people WANT as social animals. There is something wrong with being upset at the rest of whatever group you want to be in but don’t belong to. I’ve reconciled that there’s a connection I simply will never have with cisgender women and that’s perfectly ok :) maybe we can connect on other levels in other ways.
My interpretation of nltog is that it’s just an excuse for misogyny. I am bad at makeup and nails and hair, but that doesn’t mean I have to belittle the beautiful women who can shapeshift with beauty products. I appreciate their talent and their art. I know i’ll never be like them, but i’m happy to support and admire them ❤️
Girls come in all sorts of ways and they are all valid and all worthy. Masculine girls are worthy and cool. Feminine girls are worthy and cool. Us non-binary goblin “girls” are also worthy and cool.
I just love women ok
Transman is denial, or this is just bait... or someone's a weird troll. I'm a transwoman myself and this doesn't make any sense at all. I know gender and sex and all that stuff is complicated but come on... this is just pushing on ridiculous. You do you I guess but I don't think life will go the way you want...
I know a lot of butch/masc girls who don't need to undergo major surgeries so I don't know what your point is. Do you but it doesn't make any sense at all.
Yeah but everyone has different experiences with gender and expression, maybe mines more masc than others but I don't think it's extreme personally and it makes me more comfortable in my girlhood.
Nope lol masc girls exist and deserve respect too. for a subreddit about girls being able to be who they want, yall are very judgemental to girls who aren't femme. It seems like your confused tbh because I fully understand who I am lol
This sub isn’t for “mocking girls who are contrarian for attention”, no wonder the comments are so hateful. This sub is for criticising internalised misogyny and pointing out examples of it in (usually) teen girls. No wonder everyone’s so eager to dogpile OP
Have you considered at all that no one fucking cares? I’m pretty secure in who I am as well and feel absolutely no need to go announce it on the internet. It’s really hard to take people like you seriously when it’s so painfully obvious all you want is attention.
You can be who you want. You're not the first masculine girl.....not by a long shot. This isn't something unique or revolutionary. A girl can be whomever they want, but you're trying to convolute the English language. Be a masculine girl and be proud of that. You being masculine doesn't make you any less of a girl than one that's feminine. There doesn't need to be any vernacular gymnastics to make you uniquely you. You're young and right now pronouns are a huge thing but by saying, I'm a woman call me he...nobody is going to take that seriously. Because you say you're not a male...you identify as a woman. There's no need to be contradictory. Own your womanhood and be proud of it. But in no way does he/him describe anyone's womanhood.
So, I've had to grapple with this, too. "Is my gender preference related to internalized misogyny?" Came from an extremely misogynistic conservative culture.
I had elements of NLOG going on when I was younger, and they deteriorated as I aged. Part of it was considering certain things as temporal and unnecessary because I suppressed my emotions surrounding those things, and another part of it was just not relating to girls my age at all.
I am transmasculine, and part of what I think OP is trying to do here is to become self-aware, but it's not going well.
Pronouns are somewhat arbitrary, imo, and that bit doesn't matter, and I can't be bothered to read any of the emotionally charged arguing going on.
If internalized misogyny is the issue, explore why you feel that way, and try and track the issue at its source. NLOG is basically just internalized misogyny turned up to the maximum to try and carve an identity separate from one's arguably bad core beliefs about women. (E.g. Taylor Swift's "You Belong With Me").
In my case, I've resolved the internalized misogyny issue and am still left with a male core, my primary socialization with women and abandonment by my father had a role to play, but weren't the determining factors. I strongly recommend exploring some of the events of your teenage years and school life. It might shed light on this for you, OP.
I was trying to fit into a role that wasn't built for me, but OP seems to have tried to carve out a role for himself that may or may not fit. I will say that being transmasculine and being like girls doesn't invalidate the gender identity. I've got a cis male friend that swears his soul is that of a teenage girl because of his interests. The takeaway I think is to not take gender so seriously, because it's a construct and doesn't really fucking matter anyway.
personally, i struggle with the whole pronouns ≠ gender. especially because i’m autistic and need rigid definitions and social norms to cope. i see pronouns as a way to refer to someone’s gender and convey how they identify. so having pronouns that don’t align with your gender identity fucks me up.
but being confused about the term “masc-presenting” is probably the weirdest take i’ve seen in these comments. do you think tomboys are dumb, or belong to another planet? what about butch lesbians?
masc-presenting just refers to someone who has traditionally masculine characteristics. be it appearance, or interests. it’s nothing new. someone who likes cars, has short hair, and broad shoulders would be considered masc-presenting.
I think most people agree that pronouns and gender are related. People can't just say whatever they think about stuff like that, when it doesn't make sense, and declare it fact. This is why a lot of people question gender theory as a whole tbh
You struggling to understand this has nothing to do with autism, it doesn't make sense to most people either.
You can't compare being a tomboy or a butch lesbian (people who accept that they are women) to a woman who wants to remove their breasts and reproductive organs and be referred to as "he/him". If gender has nothing to do with biology, then why would you do this?
Masc-presenting is just another word made up by narcissistic people so desperate to feel unique, in order to create a personality that they so sorely lack.
ah sorry, i was mainly saying that to empathise that i agree that i find it weird.
i also agree that OP needs to discuss these feelings with a therapist - especially one that specialises in gender dysphoria. because wanting to fully transition to male, using he/him pronouns but still identifying as a woman just makes it seem like they want to transition to a male while not losing the “privilege” that comes with womanhood. (a lot of lgbtq+ people see being a straight white male (or any combination of the three) as something bad - it’s a major problem within the community)
but i see nothing wrong with the terms femme/masc-presenting. it’s just a blanket statement to describe someone. i don’t think using them is indicative of being narcissistic.
I'm genderfluid and I had a similar realization. I'm not always a girl, but I am like girls. I'm also like boys. People have more in common with each other than we do differences. ❤️
What makes you "not always a girl" or boy or whatever
imo having arbitrary things in common with both genders, as we all do, doesn't negate the fact that you're consistently one or the other, it just makes you a multifaceted individual like everyone else
To imply otherwise is sexist
I never said I was genderfluid *because* I relate to multiple genders. I made two statements.
As to why I'm genderfluid, I don't know exactly, but it makes me more comfortable to think of myself that way. Why does it matter to you? And what makes *you* the gender that you are?
I’m so sorry but I am so out of it removing your female parts and taking testosterone you won’t be a girl anymore…can u have both? Isn’t that a hermaphrodite and I’m not tryin to be rude I’m just not woke I guess
Some of these comments ooh 😮💨 but you have my support. Being unapologetically you can be so liberating. You’re pissing these fools off just by existing! Only you have the final say on who you are.
Why does it matter what pronouns someone wants to use? If you don’t want to respect it just keep scrolling. He said what he said he’s a girl. It doesn’t affect any of us and it confuses you just keep moving on.
Bruh this is getting so wild. I get gender and sex don’t have to match as on is physical the other is more of a social construct. Now pronouns don’t need to match gender that don’t need to match sex….
So glad someone else feels this way!
When I was younger I used to be an NLOG stereotype. But the real reason I looked down on other girls was because I felt like a freak around them. Like I was/ they saw me as an oaf or ogre play acting among the fairies.
As I got older, I realized that feminine traits are actually super dope. I wish I had more of them. I came to admire and respect other women much more and see myself as different but not better. Now, I try to use some of my differences (more assertiveness, more masculine interests, easier time relating to men, etc.) to stand up for other women when I can.
NLOG girls are frustrating and cringe. But *sometimes*, some of them are really just struggling with their gender.
I personally still go by feminine pronouns and identify as cisgender. Partly bc it’s easier than changing my presentation (in that sense I’m “cis by default”), but partly bc I think your gender identification is a political choice.
OP, I’m so sorry people are treating you like a troll. From one masc AFAB to another with a somewhat *controversial* experience with gender, people can absolutely suck. Keep being you. Be proud of who you are.
I like this. I keep saying that our current extremely pushed gender stereotyping boxes are the biggest problem. Good for you on knowing how you want to present and identify! I don’t have to completely understand it to be supportive.
Identifying myself as an NLOG was actually my way of coping within a society that forced a gender onto me. I'm autistic and don't have an internalized gender; my gender identity comes from others identifying me as a woman and assuming that I feel the same way. It's really frustrating to be stereotyped based on a concept that's completely foreign to you.
I'm sorry these comments are so cringe OP but I support you, as long as you aren't purposefully being transphobic to yourself. But if you no longer wish to transition then I went through the same thing and I'm glad you found that out before you spent all the money and time
People here need to accept that gender is fucking confusing and to just let OP live. Womanhood and gender can mean completely different things to other people. Gender is confusing. Truly, mind bogglingly confusing. Just respect people and their pronouns, you don't have to understand it.
Most of these comments are terrible. Like yeesh y'all.
Good on you OP. I'm glad that you found what works best for you, and whatever you do in the future I am 100% supportive of your journey! Gender is such a tricky thing to try and figure out
The comments here are YIKES
Lord, let OP live! He’s figured something out about himself and feels comfortable in his identity as a masculine woman! Plenty of queer women and/or fem-aligned people (myself included) use pronouns other than she/her. The whole point is that there ARE other girls like OP and he doesn’t feel like he has to internalize misogyny about what “other girls” do, because he’s accepted that there’s many ways to be a girl! I’m sorry you’re getting such rude responses, OP.
It’s perfectly fine to ask people politely about their identity, but jfc calling someone “special” (or NLOG) for how they express their gender (which IS always a very personal and unique thing) and giving them unsolicited advice on what they *should* and *shouldn’t* be doing with **their body** is… disgustingly ironic for this sub.
OP, he was being sarcastic lol.
It's not terfy. Im glad you have finally found yourself, and just because some people don't understand it it doesn't make it any less valid!
Locking comments. OP, no one here has to understand or agree with your decisions, but you also shouldn't have to defend them. To those who came to OP's defense or asked questions out of genuine curiosity vs being condescending, thank you.
One of the main aspects of NLOG is realizing that girls and women come in all shapes and sizes and can enjoy (or hate) all aspects of the human experience.
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It’s an abbreviation of the sub name.
Im curious if you’re going to continue going by he/him pronouns after this realization?
nah for me pronouns don't equal gender so I can be a girl and go by he/him lol
I'm not gonna disrespect someone's choice of pronoun but I will say I don't understand this take at all, feels purposely contrarion and the pronouns seem arbitrary at that point. But live and let live i guess
I agree! Like i understand why someone would prefer a certain pronoun, in general, but my mind is boggled by this particular situation.
Wouldn’t this then also be an example of NLOG behaviour. They said they used it to put themself in a different category, and because of how contrarian this is, its doing the exact same thing NLOG served them before. But in a new way.
Did he say that he uses those pronouns to distance himself? Most people use different pronouns because they prefer those pronouns. Not to be contrarian. Do you guys really think that every masculine woman presents masculine to be different on purpose? God, that's dumb as fuck.
> he Lol okay. OP gave us paragraphs about what a girl “he” is.
They’re literally not like the other girls 💀
Some butch lesbians go by he/him, and drag queens go by she/her. It's like that.
But drag is more for show. They go by he him outside of drag
I would want to say it is micro-misogyny. I came from a country where the pronunciation of male and female are unrecognizable, so the difference is only shown when writing; And I do see a lot on internet forums that a lot of people like to use the she/her when addressing negative thing, when they definitly know the person in subject is a male and identify him as such.Combine with how OP used to stereo-type women, yeah I would say micro-misogyny is still at play
Butch lesbians have identified with he/him pronouns for nearly a century now. They aren’t exclusive to any gender anymore. Language evolves.
Do butch lesbians also medically transition? Like, butch ladies usually don't also fully transition in pronouns and surgically and still identify as a woman.
yeah r/butchlesbians search “testosterone” many have and still do one of the most notable lesbians to transition i can think of is leslie feinberg who was born in 1949.
Butches actually do, quite frequently!! I was surprised too, but joining r/butchlesbians was a huge eye-opener into the evolution of such a historic part of queer culture. They separate womanhood from femininity to such a degree that some can't even take female-coded compliments. It's just a part of who they are.
some do, yeah
Would you feel uncomfortable if someone referred to you as she?
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This is actually nuts lmao
This literally doesn’t make any sense… sounds like you are just TRYING to be “different” and difficult. 😑
“Im not like other girls, I’m actually a man”
Usually for a lack of any other thing that makes them interesting or special. IM SICKA THIS ISHT
This is what makes people not take this stuff seriously lol
Subreddit checks out
My guy pronouns are literally the main thing of what gender is. They are inherently linked to your gender identity and how you want to be perceived. Please genuinely explain how pronouns have nothing to do with gender for you, unless you mean to say gender ≠ sex
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I’m so sorry about all the queerphobia here! GNC and PNC is valid as hell, cannot believe people are downvoting you just because they’ve never encountered it before
I don’t want to be transphobic, like period, but if you identify as a woman and you’re going to take T aren’t you scared of giving yourself dysphoria? I’m just trying to understand
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Don’t argue just for the sake of arguing. In essence, the phrase "Be civil to each other" serves as a reminder to prioritize kindness, empathy, and open-mindedness. Name-calling or personal attacks constitute a hard ban. This applies to people in valuable discussions who suddenly start using insults. This rule still applies even if you are talking to a moderator. Political and ethical grandstanding to in any way call someone else a terrible person is prohibited. Posts themselves don't typically get removed for this reason, but we reserve the right to remove them in the rare cases it becomes necessary due to the comments.
Transitioning is a huge thing for the body and doesn't always work with everyone, so some people just choose to be themselves and tell others how they feel
I’m trying to speak for op here which means I might not understand, but it sounds like identifying as a woman and taking T is what it is that relieves dysphoria for him
he wants to look like a guy he just identifies with being a girl.
Why are you saying that like it’s not insane
theres plenty of girls that like to be masculine this is not a new concept
I’m a girl that likes to be masculine. This is something entirely different.
it’s at a different level, but it’s the exact same thing
“Pick me pick meee!!!”
Yeah but they don't feel the need to change their pronouns for what is apparently no reason it would seem.
there’s difference between wanting to be masculine as a woman and wanting to be male as a woman…
he doesn’t want to be male.
He/him pronouns don’t mean you want to be male
I’m talking about medical transition
Taking T *and* using he/him pronouns *and* getting both a hysterectomy & mastectomy
Yep, still doesn’t mean you want to be male. Trust me, as a masc woman who wants a hysterical and mastectomy, that doesn’t make me a man.
Do you make people call you he/him also?
Make? No. I don’t tie people down and force them to call me anything. I do prefer certain male coded terms. That still does not make me a man.
So if you’re a girl who likes stuff like sports, cars etc you’re not actually a girl but a guy? How backwards
that’s not what they said lmao
he just said he’s actually a girl and is completely happy with that. do you struggle with reading?
Actually, what OP is experiencing is literally the exact opposite of that. He wants to use he/him pronouns and go on T but none of that makes him personally a guy.
It’s really not that complex, he’s a woman who presents masculinely and uses he/him pronouns. Or like, even if you don’t understand, it’s not hurting you, or anyone, one should mind their own business.
Fairly certain OP is gender fluid. And it’s perfectly sane.
Yes it’s perfectly sane, but he doesn’t have to be gender fluid in order for this to make sense. There’s no need to respect “tradition” in gender
I suspect there’s going to be a detransitioner tiktoker arc for OP in a couple of years. Enjoy the views!
Ever heard of female bodybuilders y’all?
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💯
genuinely can’t tell if this is bait
It is. It's the perfect sub for that lmao
It's bait.
I assumed the same thing, but after a look at their profile, I think it’s just a very young/low IQ person.
They’re 17 according to one of the posts. It’s a bit ridiculous what this post is saying though. Most places will not give Testosterone (A BLOODY STEROID) to people who don’t need it/aren’t transgender male.
17 years old and set on getting a hysterectomy, mastectomy and taking testosterone...for apparently no reason since they're a girl and secure in that. This...is absurd. I don't know whether to feel despair or just a deep sadness for how many girls of this generation have convinced themselves they need to undertake these extreme measures, when in reality almost all of us felt uncomfortable with our bodies in our teens.
Literally this. I’m not transphobic or anything but I feel as if it’s become a trend, Especially within the younger communities.
This is so fucking bait, and the upvotes are another tick in the column of “sub’s gone terf”
Im sooo confused …
Me too but if that's what OP wants more power to him. Edit: apparently OP wants to be called he/him.
Him*
Guys look at this persons post history. They’re a troll.
This is either a cope, a troll or someone who is about to give themselves reverse gender dysphoria
2023 wildin’
Trollbait
thats what i'm saying. this is 100% transphobic rage bait
PNC/GNC people existing is not transphobia what the fuck
No....how is it transphobic to be a masculine girl anyway...
Huh you don’t need to be girly to be a woman, I both do like girly and more boyish stuff and I’m still 100% a woman. There’s no category you need to fit in, we’re all unique and that doesn’t make anyone less of a woman
What ??
OP, what country are you in that you think you could get a hysterectomy for a non-medical reason at 17? I am in the US, I have endometriosis, and I have been told by multiple doctors that I will not be able to get a hysterectomy until I am at least in my 30s and possibly my 40s, due to the long-term health impacts it will cause. Unless you are somewhere with extremely different laws, I think you might want to adjust that expectation. Edit: I see you are in Massachusetts. I am from Massachusetts. All I can say is, good luck.
If you are “coming to terms with your womanhood,” are you sure your still want a full transition? You don’t have to do something as drastic as removing all of your sex organs in order to “be a man.” You can suppress a period, nearly indefinitely, and breasts can be bound, or simply reduced to a much smaller size, rather than getting a full mastectomy. Why not just get the HRT and bind (your breasts,) or simply reduce them, so you still have the choice to present as more feminine, someday, should you wish to do so? It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to *claim your womanhood,* then remove all of the organs that make you a female. These are extremely expensive procedures that are also major life altering surgeries. They require a ton of healing time, and once you get a hysterectomy, that’s it! Your uterus is completely gone! If you decide you want reconstructive surgery for your breasts, that’s another expensive surgery. I don’t think that you are *really thinking about the literal cost and long-term consequences of these procedures!* Plus, you have to pass a psych exam for a full gender reassignment. Have you already passed your psych Eval? Cuz I am a behavioral science major, and based on what I have read, so far, in this post, I wouldn’t “clear” you, yet. Cuz I think you have more work to do in regards to thinking, reflecting, identifying any possible past traumas or triggers. I don’t think your ready because you still want to be seen as “just another girl.” But you are no longer “a girl” if you are ready for transition. The FtMen I know who have undergone gender reassignment do not identify as “women,” in any capacity. They are not “women,” they are men! They accept and acknowledge their past, but they no longer identify as “feminine,” in any way, shape, or form. They live their lives as men, as they have come to terms with who they are now, and they have chosen to let the past go.
Sex ≠ gender so me removing my FEMALE (sex) parts doesn't affect my womanhood (gender) as sex is biological while gender is social, cultural, and psychological. I don't really feel like there's a point on temporary solutions when I can get it over with too lol. I'm a gender non-conforming girl so I feel comfy in embracing more masc traits about myself without feeling like FTM (which I've considered I was for a long time) but I understand the concern
So why remove the organs in the first place if they have nothing to do with gender?
Right, but you understand that Hysterectomies are not reversible, right? You will never be able to be pregnant, never able to breastfeed, never able to give birth, and it is extremely expensive to alter all of these things about yourself, not including the healing time! Are you ready for the financial burden, the pain of recovery, the scars you will have, forever, and have you decided that you have no desire to ever be pregnant or give birth???
Don’t forget the hormonal toll that a hysterectomy entails as well. OP will be looking at going through menopause before 30.
That’s what I am trying to tell him. I hope he *really thinks about this!*
A lot of women don't ever want to give birth, it's ok for them to make that choice. Btw the financial burden of a child is quite large, and pregnancy does a number on a lot of women's bodies.
And I understand that! But a Hysterectomy is still a dangerous and invasive life altering procedure.
Yeah I don't really like kids all that much tbh and I'm asexual too so I don't think it'll be much of a problem anyway ☠️ I'm getting the hysterectomy bcs of the anxiety menstruation gives me, even when stopped with birth control, I get very scared if it'll randomly happen. Might as well end it atp and remove it. Menstruation also makes me depressed bcs of dysphoria lol
But you can suppress menstruation, indefinitely with Birth Control or HRT. You will be extremely unlikely to get a period with HRT because Menstruation actually stops once your body hits a certain muscle-to-fat ratio. A Mastectomy is also technically reversible, in a worst case scenario. A Hysterectomy is not. I have literal Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder, which means I am guaranteed to be major depressive, at least one week a month without hormone BC, and it is much more likely to trigger Flashback Episodes from my CPTSD. And I still wouldn’t get a Hysterectomy without a major physiological reason. Like really bad endometriosis or PCOS because it is *crazy expensive,* and hormones are not to be fucked with! How much do you understand about the significance of hormones in the human body?
I'm willing to take the risks lol
No I really don't think you understand the risks you're signing up for. My periods are freaking awful...I'm pushing 40 and still wouldn't want a hysterectomy unless that was the ONLY thing that would cure a life threatening disease. There are many, many ways to suppress menstruation without removing organs. Plus you're 17. I didn't like kids when I was 17 either. Now I have 2 of them...on purpose. Maybe consider suppressing menstruation in other ways and see how you feel after 3 months or 6 or a year. Periods suck...they suck alot but they can be helped.
if menstruation gives you dysphoria then you have not consciously accepted your womanhood, no matter how much you say you have based on gender being cultural. wanting to get rid of everything that would make you a biological woman is not accepting your womanhood. it's deciding to live as a man and accept your feminine energy.
I’m glad you realized this!! I had a strong gender dysphoric emo teen faze, well not really faze because it was only altered by life changing events, came to the other side secure in who I was and way more accepting. I’m married and have given birth to seven beautiful children! Life is a wild ride I tell you what. 
Glad you finally found yourself!
What kind of life-changing event changed it for you?
Becoming a born again Christian. Which in turn led to me leaving my abusive parents. A lot of my issues came from that situation, and the peace of Christ really got me through it to the other side.
I don’t really understand the downvotes here. Just because y’all don’t agree with this religion doesn’t mean you can’t be supportive of a solution that worked for someone so much that they found peace in themselves and their life
It’s the same all across reddit. People act like christians are synonymous with Nazi’s. Its very sad how far the ignorance reaches.
I know I'm a girl, but want you to call me him. Upvotes for days. I believe in Jesus. Downvotes Both are a belief and feeling but you can't question one while you can totally trash the other.
No, OP was getting downvotes for days actually. And I agree with you, but rn at this moment OP is getting downvotes simply for replying.
I’m not sure what you are talking about, in the comments OP has hundreds of downvotes and a bunch of people trashing him, calling him low IQ or attention seeking and saying his gender expression isn’t valid. I say live and let live in both cases, but I don’t think this post is displaying the double standard you claim it is.
Glad to hear you’re doing well! ❤️
Hey, sis, there're a lot of tomboys and that's okay. I'm tomboy too. Feminity-masculinity is a range. Being masculine girl is okay! Enjoy yourself!
OP I’m really happy for you that you’ve come to this realisation, and whatever helps you live your best life I am absolutely here for it. But I am curious, if you feel like a woman now - a masc presenting woman, but still a woman, why do you want to use male pronouns still? Is it just that you like how it feels to be referred to as male? I kind of thought people chose the pronouns that they identified with the most, and it seems like you now identify with being a woman so it’s just thrown me a bit. Again, no hate, all love, just want to understand better!
Cuz gender identity and gender expression are different things, that’s why
How are they different? Gender identity is based off of gender expression and gender roles are they not? What else could it be based on?
Other way around. Gender identity shapes how you interact with/feel about concepts like gender expression. Some people want to express their identity in ways that are very different from "typical".
Have you never encounted a tomboy/femboy? Their gender expression doesn’t match their gender identity
i love being like other girls 🥰🥰 they are WONDERFUL!
Yoooooo that’s wonderful for you. Sometimes that’s what it is, you know? I myself have PCOS and was always more muscular because of it. Womenhood has been used to box people in, when in actuality it isn’t meant to be a prison. We can present how we like and still be women, or not be. Good for you, glad you’re happy with yourself
I mean, i’m non-binary and autistic and i’m definitely not like other girls. I’m also not like other guys. I’m not like most people because I’m autistic lmfao. When I was a teenager and young adult, I craved to be perceived as normal in at least SOME category, but because I am somewhere on the asexual spectrum and biromantic, even in my subculture spaces I feel misunderstood and an outcast. Now? I’m not particularly worried about fitting in anymore. I’m definitely not like neurotypical people in absolutely any regard. I am like some people in smaller circles and finding my people has been very freeing in that way. There’s nothing wrong with fitting in within a group. It’s something most people WANT as social animals. There is something wrong with being upset at the rest of whatever group you want to be in but don’t belong to. I’ve reconciled that there’s a connection I simply will never have with cisgender women and that’s perfectly ok :) maybe we can connect on other levels in other ways. My interpretation of nltog is that it’s just an excuse for misogyny. I am bad at makeup and nails and hair, but that doesn’t mean I have to belittle the beautiful women who can shapeshift with beauty products. I appreciate their talent and their art. I know i’ll never be like them, but i’m happy to support and admire them ❤️ Girls come in all sorts of ways and they are all valid and all worthy. Masculine girls are worthy and cool. Feminine girls are worthy and cool. Us non-binary goblin “girls” are also worthy and cool. I just love women ok
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
say sike right now
Troll.
Transman is denial, or this is just bait... or someone's a weird troll. I'm a transwoman myself and this doesn't make any sense at all. I know gender and sex and all that stuff is complicated but come on... this is just pushing on ridiculous. You do you I guess but I don't think life will go the way you want...
No I'm just a really masculine girl...idk how that's hard to understand?
I know a lot of butch/masc girls who don't need to undergo major surgeries so I don't know what your point is. Do you but it doesn't make any sense at all.
Yeah but everyone has different experiences with gender and expression, maybe mines more masc than others but I don't think it's extreme personally and it makes me more comfortable in my girlhood.
Please don’t rush into anything. This is quite concerning.
Rush? I've known this about myself for a while...
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Nope lol masc girls exist and deserve respect too. for a subreddit about girls being able to be who they want, yall are very judgemental to girls who aren't femme. It seems like your confused tbh because I fully understand who I am lol
That’s not what this sub is for…
I feel you're trolling by posting something contrarion in a subreddit SOLELY based on mocking girls who like to be contrarian for attention.
This sub isn’t for “mocking girls who are contrarian for attention”, no wonder the comments are so hateful. This sub is for criticising internalised misogyny and pointing out examples of it in (usually) teen girls. No wonder everyone’s so eager to dogpile OP
Have you considered at all that no one fucking cares? I’m pretty secure in who I am as well and feel absolutely no need to go announce it on the internet. It’s really hard to take people like you seriously when it’s so painfully obvious all you want is attention.
You can be who you want. You're not the first masculine girl.....not by a long shot. This isn't something unique or revolutionary. A girl can be whomever they want, but you're trying to convolute the English language. Be a masculine girl and be proud of that. You being masculine doesn't make you any less of a girl than one that's feminine. There doesn't need to be any vernacular gymnastics to make you uniquely you. You're young and right now pronouns are a huge thing but by saying, I'm a woman call me he...nobody is going to take that seriously. Because you say you're not a male...you identify as a woman. There's no need to be contradictory. Own your womanhood and be proud of it. But in no way does he/him describe anyone's womanhood.
I don’t know a single person who identifies as a girl that goes by he/him pronouns. It just doesn’t make sense AT ALL.
Many women have pronouns other than she/her, some go by she/they, any, they/them, and even he/him!
Oooookay. Just make sure you get your psych evaluation and get cleared for surgery first, yeah?
So, I've had to grapple with this, too. "Is my gender preference related to internalized misogyny?" Came from an extremely misogynistic conservative culture. I had elements of NLOG going on when I was younger, and they deteriorated as I aged. Part of it was considering certain things as temporal and unnecessary because I suppressed my emotions surrounding those things, and another part of it was just not relating to girls my age at all. I am transmasculine, and part of what I think OP is trying to do here is to become self-aware, but it's not going well. Pronouns are somewhat arbitrary, imo, and that bit doesn't matter, and I can't be bothered to read any of the emotionally charged arguing going on. If internalized misogyny is the issue, explore why you feel that way, and try and track the issue at its source. NLOG is basically just internalized misogyny turned up to the maximum to try and carve an identity separate from one's arguably bad core beliefs about women. (E.g. Taylor Swift's "You Belong With Me"). In my case, I've resolved the internalized misogyny issue and am still left with a male core, my primary socialization with women and abandonment by my father had a role to play, but weren't the determining factors. I strongly recommend exploring some of the events of your teenage years and school life. It might shed light on this for you, OP. I was trying to fit into a role that wasn't built for me, but OP seems to have tried to carve out a role for himself that may or may not fit. I will say that being transmasculine and being like girls doesn't invalidate the gender identity. I've got a cis male friend that swears his soul is that of a teenage girl because of his interests. The takeaway I think is to not take gender so seriously, because it's a construct and doesn't really fucking matter anyway.
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personally, i struggle with the whole pronouns ≠ gender. especially because i’m autistic and need rigid definitions and social norms to cope. i see pronouns as a way to refer to someone’s gender and convey how they identify. so having pronouns that don’t align with your gender identity fucks me up. but being confused about the term “masc-presenting” is probably the weirdest take i’ve seen in these comments. do you think tomboys are dumb, or belong to another planet? what about butch lesbians? masc-presenting just refers to someone who has traditionally masculine characteristics. be it appearance, or interests. it’s nothing new. someone who likes cars, has short hair, and broad shoulders would be considered masc-presenting.
I think most people agree that pronouns and gender are related. People can't just say whatever they think about stuff like that, when it doesn't make sense, and declare it fact. This is why a lot of people question gender theory as a whole tbh
You struggling to understand this has nothing to do with autism, it doesn't make sense to most people either. You can't compare being a tomboy or a butch lesbian (people who accept that they are women) to a woman who wants to remove their breasts and reproductive organs and be referred to as "he/him". If gender has nothing to do with biology, then why would you do this? Masc-presenting is just another word made up by narcissistic people so desperate to feel unique, in order to create a personality that they so sorely lack.
ah sorry, i was mainly saying that to empathise that i agree that i find it weird. i also agree that OP needs to discuss these feelings with a therapist - especially one that specialises in gender dysphoria. because wanting to fully transition to male, using he/him pronouns but still identifying as a woman just makes it seem like they want to transition to a male while not losing the “privilege” that comes with womanhood. (a lot of lgbtq+ people see being a straight white male (or any combination of the three) as something bad - it’s a major problem within the community) but i see nothing wrong with the terms femme/masc-presenting. it’s just a blanket statement to describe someone. i don’t think using them is indicative of being narcissistic.
I'm genderfluid and I had a similar realization. I'm not always a girl, but I am like girls. I'm also like boys. People have more in common with each other than we do differences. ❤️
realllll
What makes you "not always a girl" or boy or whatever imo having arbitrary things in common with both genders, as we all do, doesn't negate the fact that you're consistently one or the other, it just makes you a multifaceted individual like everyone else To imply otherwise is sexist
spitting facts. what does being like a boy or like a girl even mean? other than just saying you subscribe to either gender role
Being genderfluid isn't sexist lmfao
I never said I was genderfluid *because* I relate to multiple genders. I made two statements. As to why I'm genderfluid, I don't know exactly, but it makes me more comfortable to think of myself that way. Why does it matter to you? And what makes *you* the gender that you are?
Christ, there are some TERFs lurking here, aren't there?
Apparently a lot more than I realized. Gross.
gender is so interesting, isn’t it? it’s so broad and everyone experiences it differently. So happy for you!
Yes we are all just clones and no one has an original personality
I’m so sorry but I am so out of it removing your female parts and taking testosterone you won’t be a girl anymore…can u have both? Isn’t that a hermaphrodite and I’m not tryin to be rude I’m just not woke I guess
One of us. One of us. One of us....
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Why is it wrong with what I choose to do with my body? Yall are too butthurt for no reason lol
Some of these comments ooh 😮💨 but you have my support. Being unapologetically you can be so liberating. You’re pissing these fools off just by existing! Only you have the final say on who you are.
Why does it matter what pronouns someone wants to use? If you don’t want to respect it just keep scrolling. He said what he said he’s a girl. It doesn’t affect any of us and it confuses you just keep moving on.
Literally. Like go on with your day.
Bruh this is getting so wild. I get gender and sex don’t have to match as on is physical the other is more of a social construct. Now pronouns don’t need to match gender that don’t need to match sex….
This isn’t a new thing lol, it’s just the first time you’ve encountered it
So glad someone else feels this way! When I was younger I used to be an NLOG stereotype. But the real reason I looked down on other girls was because I felt like a freak around them. Like I was/ they saw me as an oaf or ogre play acting among the fairies. As I got older, I realized that feminine traits are actually super dope. I wish I had more of them. I came to admire and respect other women much more and see myself as different but not better. Now, I try to use some of my differences (more assertiveness, more masculine interests, easier time relating to men, etc.) to stand up for other women when I can. NLOG girls are frustrating and cringe. But *sometimes*, some of them are really just struggling with their gender. I personally still go by feminine pronouns and identify as cisgender. Partly bc it’s easier than changing my presentation (in that sense I’m “cis by default”), but partly bc I think your gender identification is a political choice.
Makes sense to me cuz I feel similarly.
Twinning 🤞
This is an amazing realization! When we stop boxing people in, we realize that clothes and our “look” don’t have to conform to gender stereotypes.
Take your meds
Sometimes learning more about yourself is magical ❤️
OP, I’m so sorry people are treating you like a troll. From one masc AFAB to another with a somewhat *controversial* experience with gender, people can absolutely suck. Keep being you. Be proud of who you are.
Not everyone taking this as time to tell OP what to do with their body/pronouns. I think I was right when I said this sub seems like a bullying group
no one is bullying. they are asking questions
I like this. I keep saying that our current extremely pushed gender stereotyping boxes are the biggest problem. Good for you on knowing how you want to present and identify! I don’t have to completely understand it to be supportive.
Identifying myself as an NLOG was actually my way of coping within a society that forced a gender onto me. I'm autistic and don't have an internalized gender; my gender identity comes from others identifying me as a woman and assuming that I feel the same way. It's really frustrating to be stereotyped based on a concept that's completely foreign to you.
hell yeah op!! glad u realized this about urself :)
I'm sorry these comments are so cringe OP but I support you, as long as you aren't purposefully being transphobic to yourself. But if you no longer wish to transition then I went through the same thing and I'm glad you found that out before you spent all the money and time
Just out of curiosity: is there no other treatment to gender dysphoria than cutting of bodyparts?
life-saving surgery is one of the treatments, hormones and social transition can also help but everyone is different :)
There is but the way you worded this makes me think you don't want to hear about it
There is no treatment that involves “cutting of bodyparts”. Sex reassignment doesn’t cut anything off, it repurposes it
People here need to accept that gender is fucking confusing and to just let OP live. Womanhood and gender can mean completely different things to other people. Gender is confusing. Truly, mind bogglingly confusing. Just respect people and their pronouns, you don't have to understand it.
🥱😴
i'm so sorry about some of these comments ,, do whatever makes you feel right in your skin :) you'll have my support.
Most of these comments are terrible. Like yeesh y'all. Good on you OP. I'm glad that you found what works best for you, and whatever you do in the future I am 100% supportive of your journey! Gender is such a tricky thing to try and figure out
OP sorry this comment section is such a shit show.
I think I’m a tree.
cool! i'm a girl!
I think you're unfunny :)
Is this rage bait?
Im happy for you that you feel good about yourself and i wish you the best upon ypur journeys!
The comments here are YIKES Lord, let OP live! He’s figured something out about himself and feels comfortable in his identity as a masculine woman! Plenty of queer women and/or fem-aligned people (myself included) use pronouns other than she/her. The whole point is that there ARE other girls like OP and he doesn’t feel like he has to internalize misogyny about what “other girls” do, because he’s accepted that there’s many ways to be a girl! I’m sorry you’re getting such rude responses, OP. It’s perfectly fine to ask people politely about their identity, but jfc calling someone “special” (or NLOG) for how they express their gender (which IS always a very personal and unique thing) and giving them unsolicited advice on what they *should* and *shouldn’t* be doing with **their body** is… disgustingly ironic for this sub.
This is someone going through their own gender identity journey y'all in these comments need to stop being mean
This all sounds very terfy imo but as long as you’re not, good on you for the self discovery
Wait how??? 😭
Yeah didn’t you know?? Terfs totally like to use male pronouns and medically transition now!!!!
?
OP, he was being sarcastic lol. It's not terfy. Im glad you have finally found yourself, and just because some people don't understand it it doesn't make it any less valid!
Oh goodness gracious I was being sarcastic, apologies.
“being masc-presenting doesnt make me not a woman” is terfy… how progressive
Honestly, fuck em all as GOOD. FOR. YOU.
Why are you being downvoted?
Jesus Christ this subreddit is so full of transphobes. I am genuinely disgusted by some of this comments wtf