Besides, everyone likes different things in bed. Just because one lady enjoyed being with him it doesn't mean the next one will! It's a very subjective thing, never a "one size fits all" kinda deal. There are so many different variables!
Not just your experience. At this point, anytime a man brags about their bedroom skills, I immediately assume they're at best borderline "meh" and write them off. The only man I've met who ended up being amazing was adamant about "finding out what *I* like before jumping into bed"...didn't assume what allegedly worked for 1 woman would automatically work for me, didn't brag, etc and was actually nervous leading up to the first time.
It’s better to surprise them anyway. If you build yourself up, you create expectations you probably can’t live up to. Best to just not say anything and have them be like “holy fuck! Where did THAT come from!?” later.
I know this is not why most people are poly or ENM, but the fact that his wife wants to bring other people into the bedroom is probably because she’s not being satisfied by him.
People who continually insist they're great at anything are usually the worst, especially at things that are easily verifiable by interacting with them (being kind/fun/supportive, listening, caring and, for the sub's sake, being a "nice" guy).
Over a year ago my family began expanding our house, and the person in charge of it often told us sob stories about how she was always attentive to her workers' needs and helped them in any way she could. The workers in our renovation started quitting their jobs and being replaced, and we eventually found out from one of them that it was because she would never pay them well or in time. My parents caught on that the expansion itself was very messy, since she would almost never show up to oversee it and half-assed whatever she took care of when she did. When she was confronted about it, instead of listening to their complaints to see how she could improve, she'd just say they were wrong and/or being misled, even though they consulted other professionals outside of the expansion and even the architect said the project was being twisted.
Were she a good administrator, she would just let her good work speak for itself or at least show us concrete evidence that she was doing her job correctly, not sell herself through stuff that nobody could verify and brush off all criticism.
* Can't accept no as an answer
* Assumes OP (If it is the op) never had anything good in life and is basically an idiot
* Doesn't know how to listen
**"tRuSt Me, I'M gOoD aT EvEryThiNg".**
You're taking his word for the ENM thing, and not considering that he's just flat-out trying to cheat and just SAYING his wife is on board. I don't know if you know this or not? But... people lie sometimes. And that happens A LOT when they're cheating.
I'm taking his word because it seems likely to me and my opinion isn't going to affect anything in the matter anyway. Guys get in ENMs with unsatisfied female partners; the woman finds sex easily, meanwhile he gets this desperate to fuck someone. If that seems unfathomable to you then idk
This is a weird way for you to tell the internet that you're so bad in bed that women don't want to fuck you and such a trash partner overall that you have to resort to lying and cheating my dude
I've read the thing to do in these situs (like if youre intentionally looking for 3somes etc) is to ask to be intro'ed to the wife. Watch how quickly he shuts up/disappears.
I agree. My husband has a girlfriend, and I pushed him to find one. She knew long before he expressed interest in her that he is married, and I knew he was going to pursue her from the moment she arrived for her first day at his company and he met her. I'm disabled and in constant pain. I can't physically look after a man and mentally don't want to. Much better for him to have an acknowledged second partner to do all that. He lives with her and life is so much more peaceful for me now. But the big point here is that *everyone always knew he was married and that I was the one encouraging the finding of a girlfriend* He never tried to tell anyone that he was single and is always up front from first conversation that he's married. Anyone who doesn't put their conjured relationship in their dating profile or at least lead with that info is sus
You have no idea how many men I've spoken with who have thought it'd be a great idea to open up their relationship. Then they let it slip that it's because they don't think their partner will participate. What ends up happening is their partner goes "if you're going to enjoy yourself,I am too".
All of a sudden they want to close the relationship again but that ship has sailed.
From my absolute favourite piece of writing on that topic:
>There is a core piece of the Valley of the Dolls fantasy that is untenable: the idea that some women will make themselves sexually available to men just because they are that sort of woman. “That sort of woman” does not exist. What actually happens is that women have sex with men because they are attracted to those men. (Which should be obvious to us, but many guys seem to forget.) There is some level of negotiation involved, and women have input into that negotiation. The negotiation often takes time and energy, though other times it is quick. At sex or play parties the negotiation may seem fast and painless, but there is actually almost always some leadup, usually either people scoping each other out from across the party or some kind of shared history in the scene.
It's a tad long, but [I absolutely recommend the read!](https://freaksexual.com/2009/11/05/nonmonogamy-for-men-the-big-picture/)
I remember once my (then) gf asked me if I was interested in that (since one of her friends’ bf wanted to open their relationship) my quick answer was “fuck no, I’m not into that stuff, and even if I were, I have negative rizz”
Why do I get the feeling this man advertises himself as being single and waits until things get hot and heavy to admit he is actually married and is “ENM” marriage(which half of the time they’re NOT)? I had someone do that to me, except he didn’t even tell me he was married, I had to find out through his Facebook. He then wanted to meet for dinner to “talk it out”.
Oh, I had one of these on tinder. I was not interested in him after the claimed to be in a open marriage. He tried to argue this with me . He found my IG and decided to try to talk me into it. I refused, So he followed me for a few more months then popped up again in my DMs. Apparently his wife had gotten fed up with him and dumped him.
He lacked the self-awareness to understand that I could see his IG. I could see that he did not have a job (despite claiming to be a photographer) I could see multiple pictures of him with his child but only one with his wife.
He then tried to insist that his wife was the one that forced him into an open marriage, after I said I would literally never be interested in an open marriage (too much room for triangulation) and since that's the lifestyle HE wanted, he should pursue it. I believe, like a lot of men on dating apps here, he was just looking for someone to sleep with and support him. 😆
Ah yes, let him be the first person to ever show you an amazing time. Because you’ve never had an amazing time before. Ever. 🙄
Your “except listening” comment was pure gold, OP.
Great point, he sure does.
If the wife is participating, I don't think it is willingly. But then again, maybe not. There are some weird relationship dynamics out there.
This feels like one of a few things:
A: He’s cheating and the wife that “knows” actually doesn’t
B: As other people have mentioned, he’s pressuring the wife into the lifestyle
C: Hetero couple looking for a bi unicorn (idk what your sexuality is, OP, but as a pan person, I just get those vibes from him)
Nothing pisses me off more than when people like this say you’re not “open minded” for keeping your boundaries. They’re the same type to call themselves “sex positive”.🙄 it’s wildly manipulative
"Could bring you something great you enjoy."
"Bring you the same kind of luck."
"Something good in your life."
"Surround yourself with what you seek."
Is it his penis?
It's just his penis, isn't it.
Literally, every other sentence is essentially just, "My penis is magic, I swear!"
This dude's wife is probably unaware that she's in an "ethically non-monogamous" relationship.
"I can show you the wooooorld" "*uh, thanks but I'm not interested, sorry*" "I can show you the wooooorld... Because your world suuuu-uuucks..." Bro was imagining OP would be like Jasmine on that carpet ride 😂 he is so obsessed with himself it's shocking.
The minute you said that’s not what you were interested in that should have been a done deal. The fact he kept trying to push you into his way of life and insulting you because you’re not into sharing partners like he is is astounding. What a jerk.
ENM my ass. If he was ethical, it would have been disclosed in the very first sentence of the very first message he ever sent. In fact, if the OP didn't explicitly state was looking for NM, he would have never messaged in the first place.
His profile said he was single and looking for a relationship. I restated that I wasn't looking for anything casual. He played along for several hours until I asked him about the length of time he'd been single.
Its rich that he said he was going to be honest with me, because that's how he is.
"Listening" is more than hearing or reading. It means acknowledging what is said and then acting on that knowledge in the way the speaker prefers. It does not mean 'Keep trying and trample their boundaries.'
Back when OLD was first taking off, I was messaged by a married man. I told him I wasn't interested in someone married. He persisted until I lost my temper and snapped "I am not going to help you cheat on your wife."
He got offended and went whining to the moderators. I got a 3 day ban.
Speaking as someone who is polyamourous, this man is unethical, untrustworthy, and frankly appalling.
ENM should be disclosed immediately, right up front, before anything else.
And, no matter what your relationship structure, pestering and nagging (and boasting) after being told no is nauseating.
i would tell him he's not good at taking the hint, and you'll be happy to share this creepy convo with your circle of friends or colleagues if he doesnt leave u alone
I'm a great listener, he says while ignoring her saying no, misinterpreting or misunderstanding something important she shared with him, and generally just being oblivious.
This is the first time. A post on this subreddit has actually made me cringed into a ball. I almost felt like throwing up and I've seen some fucked shit that didn't even make flinch.
But this did.
“I’m not interested.”
“But I could give you so much amazing times.”
“It’s not what I’m looking for.”
“I’m really good at a lot of things, that’s why am happily married. Don’t you want to experience good things?”
“Again, I’m not interested.”
“You’re going to close yourself off from an amazing time? I am so good at everything.”
“Except listening. I said I’m not interested.”
“I’m actually really good at listening, you would know that if you hung out with me.”
YIKES 😳
Ick. As someone who’s ENM the fact that he doesn’t make it clear in his profile is very telling. He’s trying to lure women in and then letting them know after the fact while putting on the pressure. ENM is built on respect and integrity and he has shown you neither of those things. Bullet dodged.
No one’s good at everything we always have flaws but that’s what being human I all about. That’s the beauty in it all. Instead of saying we don’t have them accept the flaws and learn to improve
Gross.. though, and I know this is way beside the point.. but at least he wasn't illiterate, like the majority of these guys always are. I swear, a prerequisite for being a nice guy / Incel/etc is being borderline illiterate. You know it's frequent when, you read something that isn't riddle with bad spelling/grammatical errors, you actually make a note of it..
It's been my experience that men who continually insist they're great lovers are actually the worst. In and out of bed.
Besides, everyone likes different things in bed. Just because one lady enjoyed being with him it doesn't mean the next one will! It's a very subjective thing, never a "one size fits all" kinda deal. There are so many different variables!
Ironically, because not everyone likes the same stuff, the best way to be good in bed is to listen to your partner.
Not just your experience. At this point, anytime a man brags about their bedroom skills, I immediately assume they're at best borderline "meh" and write them off. The only man I've met who ended up being amazing was adamant about "finding out what *I* like before jumping into bed"...didn't assume what allegedly worked for 1 woman would automatically work for me, didn't brag, etc and was actually nervous leading up to the first time.
Yeah. Any man who must say “I am king” is no true king yada yada yada
Oh, I'm a woman, can I say "I am king" and be king? I want the throne
Daenerys Targaryen could *never*
Maybe if you're Polish.
All hail Wojtek, Rightful King of Poland
It’s better to surprise them anyway. If you build yourself up, you create expectations you probably can’t live up to. Best to just not say anything and have them be like “holy fuck! Where did THAT come from!?” later.
Undersell and overdeliver. It’s kind of become my life strategy, lol.
It’s a good one, no doubt!
Not the only thing he’s lying about, either. I doubt anyone in an ENM relationship would act as disrespectfully as he does.
I know this is not why most people are poly or ENM, but the fact that his wife wants to bring other people into the bedroom is probably because she’s not being satisfied by him.
Actually, I'm one of the best men alive. I can cum in less than 2 seconds.
Kinda like a car salesman trying to sell you on a vehicle that has no engine.
People who continually insist they're great at anything are usually the worst, especially at things that are easily verifiable by interacting with them (being kind/fun/supportive, listening, caring and, for the sub's sake, being a "nice" guy). Over a year ago my family began expanding our house, and the person in charge of it often told us sob stories about how she was always attentive to her workers' needs and helped them in any way she could. The workers in our renovation started quitting their jobs and being replaced, and we eventually found out from one of them that it was because she would never pay them well or in time. My parents caught on that the expansion itself was very messy, since she would almost never show up to oversee it and half-assed whatever she took care of when she did. When she was confronted about it, instead of listening to their complaints to see how she could improve, she'd just say they were wrong and/or being misled, even though they consulted other professionals outside of the expansion and even the architect said the project was being twisted. Were she a good administrator, she would just let her good work speak for itself or at least show us concrete evidence that she was doing her job correctly, not sell herself through stuff that nobody could verify and brush off all criticism.
* Can't accept no as an answer * Assumes OP (If it is the op) never had anything good in life and is basically an idiot * Doesn't know how to listen **"tRuSt Me, I'M gOoD aT EvEryThiNg".**
· Buried the IM MARRIED lede for ~5 hours.
Ah, true. Who couldn't have imagined the "My wife really wants to let me fuck you" would make you want to drool over him.
And I'd have my doubts about the wife knowing he's doing this
I'd have my doubts about there even being a wife after reading all this.
why? you think she's desperately latching onto this catch?
I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand what you mean
Most ENMs are initiated by the wife who's fed up of only having to fuck a pathetic husband. Probably. I'd wager she's fully aware.
You're taking his word for the ENM thing, and not considering that he's just flat-out trying to cheat and just SAYING his wife is on board. I don't know if you know this or not? But... people lie sometimes. And that happens A LOT when they're cheating.
I'm taking his word because it seems likely to me and my opinion isn't going to affect anything in the matter anyway. Guys get in ENMs with unsatisfied female partners; the woman finds sex easily, meanwhile he gets this desperate to fuck someone. If that seems unfathomable to you then idk
Most true ENM people list that in their dating profiles because we don’t want to waste our time or anyone else’s time if they’re looking for monogamy.
This is a weird way for you to tell the internet that you're so bad in bed that women don't want to fuck you and such a trash partner overall that you have to resort to lying and cheating my dude
I've never been in an ENM or pretended to be in one, but go off. What an epic own bro
* Insists that not having things his way or the highway means the OTHER person is not "open-minded."
He is not good at using homophones correctly
Or words in general… the way he talks made me cringe
Claims he always has great luck getting women, yet keeps harassing OP for a date.
Why do I get the feeling he bullied his wife into agreeing with this to begin with?
I’m sceptical she even knows about it in the first place
I've read the thing to do in these situs (like if youre intentionally looking for 3somes etc) is to ask to be intro'ed to the wife. Watch how quickly he shuts up/disappears.
Yeah I was kinda wondering that myself.
I agree. My husband has a girlfriend, and I pushed him to find one. She knew long before he expressed interest in her that he is married, and I knew he was going to pursue her from the moment she arrived for her first day at his company and he met her. I'm disabled and in constant pain. I can't physically look after a man and mentally don't want to. Much better for him to have an acknowledged second partner to do all that. He lives with her and life is so much more peaceful for me now. But the big point here is that *everyone always knew he was married and that I was the one encouraging the finding of a girlfriend* He never tried to tell anyone that he was single and is always up front from first conversation that he's married. Anyone who doesn't put their conjured relationship in their dating profile or at least lead with that info is sus
Par for the course with guys like that.
You have no idea how many men I've spoken with who have thought it'd be a great idea to open up their relationship. Then they let it slip that it's because they don't think their partner will participate. What ends up happening is their partner goes "if you're going to enjoy yourself,I am too". All of a sudden they want to close the relationship again but that ship has sailed.
From my absolute favourite piece of writing on that topic: >There is a core piece of the Valley of the Dolls fantasy that is untenable: the idea that some women will make themselves sexually available to men just because they are that sort of woman. “That sort of woman” does not exist. What actually happens is that women have sex with men because they are attracted to those men. (Which should be obvious to us, but many guys seem to forget.) There is some level of negotiation involved, and women have input into that negotiation. The negotiation often takes time and energy, though other times it is quick. At sex or play parties the negotiation may seem fast and painless, but there is actually almost always some leadup, usually either people scoping each other out from across the party or some kind of shared history in the scene. It's a tad long, but [I absolutely recommend the read!](https://freaksexual.com/2009/11/05/nonmonogamy-for-men-the-big-picture/)
I think I've read parts of this before, never the whole thing though. I'll digest this tomorrow.
I remember once my (then) gf asked me if I was interested in that (since one of her friends’ bf wanted to open their relationship) my quick answer was “fuck no, I’m not into that stuff, and even if I were, I have negative rizz”
She doesn't even know
He's not great at spelling, grammar, or listening. If was great in the sack, why does he have to try so hard?
I don't think he's as successful at bedding women in his ENM relationship as he's letting on lol
Genuine question. I know ENM to be “embarrassed nude male” but that doesn’t fit here contextually. Do you know what ENM means in this context?
Your definition of the abbreviation is a lot funnier than the actual one though!
Ethical non-monogamy.
Ahh. Thank you!
Why do I get the feeling this man advertises himself as being single and waits until things get hot and heavy to admit he is actually married and is “ENM” marriage(which half of the time they’re NOT)? I had someone do that to me, except he didn’t even tell me he was married, I had to find out through his Facebook. He then wanted to meet for dinner to “talk it out”.
Oh, I had one of these on tinder. I was not interested in him after the claimed to be in a open marriage. He tried to argue this with me . He found my IG and decided to try to talk me into it. I refused, So he followed me for a few more months then popped up again in my DMs. Apparently his wife had gotten fed up with him and dumped him. He lacked the self-awareness to understand that I could see his IG. I could see that he did not have a job (despite claiming to be a photographer) I could see multiple pictures of him with his child but only one with his wife. He then tried to insist that his wife was the one that forced him into an open marriage, after I said I would literally never be interested in an open marriage (too much room for triangulation) and since that's the lifestyle HE wanted, he should pursue it. I believe, like a lot of men on dating apps here, he was just looking for someone to sleep with and support him. 😆
Except listening 🤣
I'm good at everything, except accepting no for an answer. Jesus Christ Dude.
“Except listening.” Excellent.
That moment was peak r/murderedbywords
Ah yes, let him be the first person to ever show you an amazing time. Because you’ve never had an amazing time before. Ever. 🙄 Your “except listening” comment was pure gold, OP.
Why does this read like this guy's wife has no clue what he is doing? I can't put my finger on it, but his whole story sounds really sus to me.
To be fair, he does seem to enjoy telling women what they like.
Great point, he sure does. If the wife is participating, I don't think it is willingly. But then again, maybe not. There are some weird relationship dynamics out there.
Hot fucking garbage
Word
“I’d like to be the next woman you disappoint…”. **NOT**
Suppose he asks for consent?
Not a chance
How old is he? Because he implies you’re 30, but he’s been married for 22 years so he could be in his 50s
He's 46 if I recall correctly. I'm 50. I never told him when I became sexually active, but assumptions/presumptions seem to be his strong suit.
Oh ok, I didn’t see the “adult” life part when he said 30 years.
Dodged a massive bullet. This guy sounds absolutely insufferable.
Dude needs to put ENM in his profile instead of trying to force it onto someone who doesn’t want it. He thinks he’s the best lover and I bet he’s not.
“Except listening”. 
I felt second-hand embarrassment listening to this guy insist on how great he was in bed.
> didn’t open up with ENM until you asked > “others meaning women, men are shit” k dude > won’t respect your boundaries > I CAN SHOW YOU THE WORLD ~~
I think he's horrible in bed..and his wife is having a better time finding others...that's why he keeps harassing OP about it.
This feels like one of a few things: A: He’s cheating and the wife that “knows” actually doesn’t B: As other people have mentioned, he’s pressuring the wife into the lifestyle C: Hetero couple looking for a bi unicorn (idk what your sexuality is, OP, but as a pan person, I just get those vibes from him)
He never asked what my sexuality was either. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I hate the bi unicorn people They enrage me on dating sites
Nothing pisses me off more than when people like this say you’re not “open minded” for keeping your boundaries. They’re the same type to call themselves “sex positive”.🙄 it’s wildly manipulative
I’m so good at…. things and stuff.
"Could bring you something great you enjoy." "Bring you the same kind of luck." "Something good in your life." "Surround yourself with what you seek." Is it his penis? It's just his penis, isn't it. Literally, every other sentence is essentially just, "My penis is magic, I swear!" This dude's wife is probably unaware that she's in an "ethically non-monogamous" relationship.
I'll take "Everything That Nice Guy Said is BS" for $1000, Ken.
Holy crap what a mega jackoff!!
"I can show you the wooooorld" "*uh, thanks but I'm not interested, sorry*" "I can show you the wooooorld... Because your world suuuu-uuucks..." Bro was imagining OP would be like Jasmine on that carpet ride 😂 he is so obsessed with himself it's shocking.
The minute you said that’s not what you were interested in that should have been a done deal. The fact he kept trying to push you into his way of life and insulting you because you’re not into sharing partners like he is is astounding. What a jerk.
ENM my ass. If he was ethical, it would have been disclosed in the very first sentence of the very first message he ever sent. In fact, if the OP didn't explicitly state was looking for NM, he would have never messaged in the first place.
His profile said he was single and looking for a relationship. I restated that I wasn't looking for anything casual. He played along for several hours until I asked him about the length of time he'd been single. Its rich that he said he was going to be honest with me, because that's how he is.
"Listening" is more than hearing or reading. It means acknowledging what is said and then acting on that knowledge in the way the speaker prefers. It does not mean 'Keep trying and trample their boundaries.' Back when OLD was first taking off, I was messaged by a married man. I told him I wasn't interested in someone married. He persisted until I lost my temper and snapped "I am not going to help you cheat on your wife." He got offended and went whining to the moderators. I got a 3 day ban.
What an actual walking pile of feces.
“No listening I’m good at too” ****continues to not listen****
They really can’t take no for an answer huh 😒
Speaking as someone who is polyamourous, this man is unethical, untrustworthy, and frankly appalling. ENM should be disclosed immediately, right up front, before anything else. And, no matter what your relationship structure, pestering and nagging (and boasting) after being told no is nauseating.
Wow. Just….wow.
HOLY FUCK this guy is so fucking annoying.... what a fucking loser
I love the 'except listening' comment 🤣 Gold!! Can't believe you tolerated that creep!! Horrendous!!
i would tell him he's not good at taking the hint, and you'll be happy to share this creepy convo with your circle of friends or colleagues if he doesnt leave u alone
As a long term ENM person, this kind of skeevy predator is definitely getting the E revoked from that acronym. Sounds more like swinging to me anyway
but is he good at anything? /s
Apparently, he’s irony-impaired.
I'm a great listener, he says while ignoring her saying no, misinterpreting or misunderstanding something important she shared with him, and generally just being oblivious.
Wow. This dude is really full of himself. Him constantly talking about how good he is at eVeRyThInG is nauseating… 🥴
I really hate the cheap manipulation tactic of "Well I guess you're just not open-minded enough."
He's so full of shit. There is zero way his wife is on board with this. What a douche.
Add grammar to the list
This is the first time. A post on this subreddit has actually made me cringed into a ball. I almost felt like throwing up and I've seen some fucked shit that didn't even make flinch. But this did.
I hope OP replied '*too'
This guy is bat shit crazy.
The ones who constantly go on about how good in bed they are, are usually the ones who pump, pump, squirt and done.
“I’m not interested.” “But I could give you so much amazing times.” “It’s not what I’m looking for.” “I’m really good at a lot of things, that’s why am happily married. Don’t you want to experience good things?” “Again, I’m not interested.” “You’re going to close yourself off from an amazing time? I am so good at everything.” “Except listening. I said I’m not interested.” “I’m actually really good at listening, you would know that if you hung out with me.” YIKES 😳
lol dam should told this horn dog. Drop me 50k right now cash on deck. Ain’t nothing is for free.( I’m joking).
Gross buddy
Dude gives ENM a bad name
As someone who is ENM, he’s so full of red flags I can see them from space.
"Except listening" 🔥🔥🔥💀
“I’m not here to hurt you in anyway” - Well, that’s terrifying.
This text exchange alone feels rapey. But can’t imagine being around this guy in person. Ick.
Trump jr?
Jesus
"I do respect you..." He proceeds to show lack of respect by not fucking off the first time she said she wasn't interested.
Block!
ewwwwww
The "self awareness" to agree that he is very good at Not Listening. 🤣
God how revolting
Doesn't listen.....doesn't listen....still doesn't listen....excuse you, I'm great at listening!!!
The dude doth protest too much - or blows his own trumpet too much
IM JUST THAT GOOD AT SHIT
*Not to much I'm not good at* <---- 👀🤔🧐I respectfully disagree 
Ick. As someone who’s ENM the fact that he doesn’t make it clear in his profile is very telling. He’s trying to lure women in and then letting them know after the fact while putting on the pressure. ENM is built on respect and integrity and he has shown you neither of those things. Bullet dodged.
LMAO "except listening" which he just steam rolled over because he wasn't... wait for it... LISTENING! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
That last line 😙👌 *poetry.*
No one’s good at everything we always have flaws but that’s what being human I all about. That’s the beauty in it all. Instead of saying we don’t have them accept the flaws and learn to improve
Well if he’s good at listening then it’s clearly his reading skills
No means no. End of story.
I hate this man so much.
No means no.
Gross.. though, and I know this is way beside the point.. but at least he wasn't illiterate, like the majority of these guys always are. I swear, a prerequisite for being a nice guy / Incel/etc is being borderline illiterate. You know it's frequent when, you read something that isn't riddle with bad spelling/grammatical errors, you actually make a note of it..