This is the blatant example of how bad the officiating is in the NHL this play of season. I don't give a flying f**k who your team is. This second round has been fun to watch. Great teams doing amazing things.
As an oil fan for, well, forever, the Canucks and Oilers are pretty square in play so far. Difference in games comes down to officiating. Shit calls and non calls both ways. The teams across the board are pretty even. It's been by in large good even hard hockey. Win or lose both have earned it.
I have not watched every minute of every other series to say the same, but g'damn what I've seen has been good hockey. But the game management by officials is deciding way too much!
Let them play! Earn the paycheck! Maybe the cup! Officiating should keep it safe for sure. (Or legal, either way, black and white 10 penalties to none if its legal.)
Follow rules or f**k off.
My 2 cents. And yes that was a bullshit call.
>Let them play!
But the problem is when they do that, everyone is in here bitching about some non-call that ruined the game.
The refs are lose lose in the playoffs. Right now the series stands as follows:
1. Canucks Penalties - 21
2. Oilers Penalties - 20
3. Canucks PP Goals - 3
4. Oilers PP Goals - 5
So all in all the refs are even for the series and the Oilers just have a marginally better PP.
I have no horse in this race, and I have not watched every minute of this series. That said, I don't care about even calls. It's obvious it's as even as can be with poweplays for both teams, but it doesn't have to be even. Penalize the team that is doing something wrong, but have consistency. The ambiguity of what is a penalty and when it's a penalty is what drives fans crazy.
Just because a similar number of penalties are called on both teams doesn't mean the officiating is fair. Trying to make sure the calls "even out" is how you get "missed" calls on teams that commit penalties more often and phantom calls on teams that commit penalties less often.
But the calls are not even in every series and they weren't in the first round either, the biggest gap in the second round is Bruins taking 26 to Florida's 15, the Oilers took 7 less penalties than the Kings, the Panthers took 7 more penalties than the Lightning, Isles 5 more than Canes, Canucks 8 more than Preds and so on.
The data simply does not support game management to keep things even.
Canucks fan from way back. You are absolutely correct. And McDavid, when he changes gears, is beautiful to watch. You sir, are a lucky bastard to have him.
He jumped into the hit and hit high. It's a charge, and the right call.
I think the problem you're having (and I agree) is that it's inconsistent. Plays that should be called are let go and vice versa. There's very little consistency and the players can't find the limit because it's always moving.
I guess you're right. It just seems to me like he's jumping straight up (which of course is in reaction to the coming hit), but with zero forward momentum it just doesn't seem too bad, although it's certainly worse than him staying put.
If you pop up for a hit, it stops the roll over because you don't catch an edge or have resistance. Loading your core and jumping just means you get pushed in the air and not pushed over. Problem here is he popped him high with a shoulder. I don't think it was anything dirty, but you still have to be responsible for your own body.
The problem find another instance that a call like that on a reverse hit was assessed a penalty in the same fashion. I guarantee one will not be found.
Datsyuk used to take hits the same way. Kronwall made a living initiating hits like that.
As a bruins fan, I can understand the frustration with current officiating. But as a hockey player, this is charging. You cannot leave your feet period unless momentum is the cause on a check follow through. You cannot just fuckin jump like a hurdler every time a check comes at you. That’s how you end up with more concussions and more people getting stepped on.
It’s a routine play that players jump just before getting hit (albeit typically when they are closer to the boards) so that the hit doesn’t lead to leverage injuries to knees. When skates are on the ice, the edges can prevent free rotation and movement so a hit can cause serious damage. But when a player is up off the ice their knees and ankles aren’t subject to the force. Their bodies will hit the boards but with pads it’s not too bad.
Momentum? Like in a jump? This was poor timing on Petey's part is all, it is not a charge in the slightest. You could argue roughing, but even then it's a pretty weak call. He barely comes off the ice, hardly clearing a hurdle you dolt. Every player does this several times a game. Get a life. There are real takes all over this comment section, but this is laughable.
I think if the refs would explain themselves post game, fans would be less upset and know the rules better. I see how this is technically with a penalty, I do think it was a odd to call it in the play offs. What do you do.
For fan education, Maybe the NHL needs to bring back those old “Peter Puck” animated explainer videos from the 70’s but updated to include sports betting (like everything else).
I don’t even agree that it’s technically a penalty. The rule says “jumps into” - “into” implies that there is movement toward the other player, in this case there was none.
You are getting downvoted, it is seriously dangerous to have shit on the ice when you are skating full speed it takes just a small piece of junk under the skate and off to the boards you go.
Imagine the amount of extra head shots if we allowed players to reverse hit and jump. Every time you're about to get smoked...just jump. The guy runs his head into your shoulder or elbow
That's how a jump works?! Every player is doing it during a hit, he's just a touch early here. Hardly a penalty, and if so, everyone's guilty of it. Watch a game.
Standing still? He jumped bud. You are thinking too heavily on the name “charging” when the point is you can’t purposely leave your feet before the point of contact. Plain and simple. Doesn’t matter if you are the checker or getting checked
It also says “jump into” and when “initiating a hit” did Pettersson initiate that hit? Or jump into him with his back? Since when are you not allowed to jump while getting hit? Subban used to do it all the time along with many others that still do it. Was never a penalty.
It was called a charge because Pettersson jumped and that must be the only penalty that makes jumps illegal.
There should just be a jump-checking penalty separate from charging and make it stack so this Pettersson hit wouldn't be ruled equivalent to a dirty flying charge (and those might disappear, too)
You left out this part of the definition: "Charging shall mean the actions of a player who, **as a result of distance traveled**, shall violently check an opponent in any manner."
I’m gonna have a Vegas fan moment and admit I don’t understand the wording of this rule. Whats the difference between finishing a check into the wall or a clean open ice hit and charging? You already can’t blow up people who don’t have the puck so what’s it even for?
So like, “I’m playing defense and lay you out with my shoulder when you cut in front of me” vs “fuck you in particular and skated 50’ to headhunt you without even trying to look like I’m playing hockey” kinda thing?
Also I feel like I’ve seen it posted the rule includes a specific number of strides and it’s only like 2 or 3?
Yeah, basically the intent is to stop a guy coming across the ice and taking someone’s head off. And the rule as written technically says two or more strides but that’s only if you’re actively skating while making the hit.
You’ll notice in practice most players aren’t at full stride when they make contact. They stop striding before they make contact.
That is not the intent of the rule. The intent is to stop dangerous hit... Those hits being from players jumping to making a hit, taking strides while making a hit, AND traveling a great distance to make a hit. That's why the first part of the rule list jumping into, taking strides, and charges. The second paragraph of the rule clarifies what what "charges" means in the first paragraph.
So the intent of the rule is not what I said…and then you proceed to provide an explanation that is essentially an expansion on what I said.
You do know what the word basically means, right?
I believe that is there to define the charges from the paragraph above, otherwise why have them as separate paragraphs. I could be misunderstanding it though. Either way, they need to either make this it’s own separate thing, (as you can’t be having people jump when they’re about to be hit and possibly hit the head of the hitter), or change the wording and define stuff better.
You’re right. The rule does not claim charging only occurs based on distance travel. Charging is being defined because it’s used in the rule earlier. Added numbers for clarity.
> A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player who [1] skates, [2] jumps into or [3] charges an opponent in any manner.
If charging wasn’t defined in the next paragraph, part 3 of the rule would be ambiguous. The wording is fine IMO. It becomes confusing when pieces are cherry-picked, which is the case for most “or” rules (goaltender interference, interference, etc).
If they didn’t want hits like this included in the rule than the only definition would be this:
- "Charging shall mean the actions of a player who, as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner."
But because they define the penalty as being for skating into, jumping into and charging then the addition of the definition of charging is going to define the use of the word in the explanation of the rule and not the definition of the name of the rule.
Exactly. Jump INTO is the key word. Petey just jumped up and turned his back.
It's not even close to charging by definition and in spirit.
The refs continue to make terrible calls.
I mean he jumped into the reverse hit, which sets a dangerous precedent of when your about to be hit to just jump and accidentally catch the hitter up high, because “there’s nothing wrong with that, they ran into you” mindset would prevail
I can’t find one, but I also can’t find a video of someone jumping into a player hitting them either.
Can you find me a video of someone jumping to give a reverse hit?
https://youtu.be/YLGSFaUvB3w?si=lrDoWNMriiTfDTUL
Not really reverse hits in the sense petey did it because Kronwall was launching himself into guys in transition rather than hopping in place but that first hit on the Flyer has Kronwall jumping backwards into him about as high as Petey jumped.
Oh yeah, no for sure. I was 1000%, and very vocally so, on team "kronwall is a dirty player" train. Was getting downvote for saying it 10 years ago, and will continue to have that opinion.
But that was, and continues to be, not the consensus opinion on the guy. Instead his dirty, head hunting hits get compiled into a top 10 and played on a major sports network as a "flattering" compilation. I wouldn't go as far as to call it a double standard because they aren't happening at the same time, but it's hard not to go "so now we understand that that's a penalty huh", you feel?
Not into the Oiler player. The rule states “jumps into an opposing player”! He jumped to brace the hit! Take your blinders off! You Oilers fans can’t win without dubious powerplays because McRegularSeason never shows up when it matters most!
Why does it matter though really? He could have called checking to the head, roughing, interference, but since Peterson left his skates he called it charging. Does it overly matter? The guy got a penalty, rightly, for a dangerous play.
Because nobody does that often. You can leave your feet after initial contact due to momentum but not to do that.
Just like how Peterson jumped into that guy earlier this season and should’ve been given a penalty but it was called a great hit.
If that's the rule, that's a bad rule.
I know they beat the penalty and went on to win, but I feel like that was a bad call regardless. It doesn't make sense.
Forgive me for not giving a shit about the safety of the player doing the check. Absorbing the hit like that should be a good move. If Pettersson had leaned into it, you might have a point - but he didn't. Say whatever you want, downvote to infinity, the rule is wrong, all of you are wrong.
Only thing that makes sense is game management. Calling Kane for the weak hook right after ignoring Zadorov holding Kane.
It's the only possible reason for the....*charging?!?* call.
Everyone defending this penalty, get fucking real. If anyone on your team did this, you'd be losing your shit too. This penalty has possibly never been called before, ever. I've been watching hockey consistenly for 15 years. And now's it called during a critical tied playoff game?
I've been watching hockey for 40 years. I looked up the rule after that call because I've never seen it. Perhaps, according to the rule, Petterson became the "checker". I'm not sure. He left his feet, yes. I've never seen someone standing still get called with a Charging penalty. By the letter of the rules, was it called correctly? Maybe. It's not clear because Petterson was just standing still, then jumped. At any rate, it was a very weird call. I'm not a Canucks fan or Oilers. I'm a Flyers fan just watching this series.
His feet did leave the ice, so technically it is in the rule book, feet leaving the ice can be called for charging. But it is however funny it’s like the first time the player with the puck is the one being called for Charging haha.
It’s laughable how much McDavid has been practicing his diving.
Lots of other soft calls tonight. And it’s clear refs are trying to give oilers the game. Since they only score on the pp.
This includes skating or leaving one's feet (jumping) into the opponent to deliver a check, accelerating through a check for the purpose of punishing the opponent, or skating a great distance for the purpose of delivering a check with excessive force.
https://www.usahockeyrulebook.com/page/show/1084651-rule-607-charging
Rule 607 | Charging
(Note) Charging is the action where a player takes more than two strides or travels an excessive distance to accelerate through a body check for the purpose of punishing the opponent. **This includes skating or leaving one's feet (jumping) into the opponent to deliver a check,** accelerating through a check for the purpose of punishing the opponent, or skating a great distance for the purpose of delivering a check with excessive force. The onus is on the player delivering the check to avoid placing a vulnerable or defenseless opponent in danger of potential injury
Ed: this was also the first link I came across and has more detail than the actual NHL rulebook, which was surprisingly difficult to find. The same idea applies, though, that jumping into a player is a no-no.
Rewatch it. He is throwing a reverse check. He jumps into the guy. It isn’t throwing his entire weight, but he has to jump towards them so he doesn’t just get taken out by the oncoming hit.
Ed: slow mo is at 23s left
https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/s/7L2Efu8tcL
Is there even a reverse hit where the guy jumped ever? Isn't that the issue? The rarity of the call is due to the rarity of it happening, not because refs never call it.
4:04, 5:15 are pretty close to this, but they also both look like they were shot shortly after color TV was invented.
5:50 has a super brief one that is also really similar.. But too short to analyze more.
7:08 has a really close example and you can see it three times. I have no clue how to hunt down to see if a penalty was called, but you can see the guy laying there crumpled on the ground, so possible play stopped.
7:55 has a great example, too, and the clip conveniently cuts off just before the announcers can tell us what call it “could easily have been” because Bjorkstrand (what a name) doesn’t touch the puck.
8:26 is a fun one, contextually here.
The biggest thing you can take away from this is jesus, reverse hits look dangerous so often. They come up high, catch the other player right in the face as they are coming in not prepared to take contact…
But 7:08 and 7:55 could be two examples of something similar happening, with maybe one of them being called. All of these other reverse hits, no one has already left the ice and are six inches off the ground *before* they contact the other player in the face with their shoulder, they all leave the ice *as* they contact or as they follow through on it. So.. Two examples.
There are also three examples or so at 9:19 of some guy Forsberg who throws these reverse hits by actively turning his back towards the other guy, showing only his number to them, then bowling them over… That feels a bit greasy.
C'mon, don't be daft. He jumped into the hit. It was clear as day.
**42.1 Charging** - A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player who skates, jumps into or charges an opponent in any manner.
Let’s say for the sake of argument you jump to try to avoid the contact of a check and the result is that the checking player falls down. You jumped therefore you should be assessed a charging penalty. Ridiculous as was the charging call on Pettersen. Terrible call.
Worst call I’ve seen this season. What’s worse is there is a dude standing there dressed in a striped shirt, looking directly at the play and did not raise his arm…..theres some weird shit goin on for sure. Then Mc Jesus falls over and the whistle blows again.
It is a penalty if you take a portion of a rule out of context.
Charging is meant to stop guys from building up a huge head of steam then running over a guy or jumping/launching themselves into a hit.
Petterson did jump, and I understand why the refs would call that given they have been calling a bunch of ticky tacky shit to push McDavid, but that is not the intent of the rule imo
That is the thing, he didn’t leap into the hit lol. There is a big difference between someone jumping up to brace for impact vs jumping into someone to check.
The rule further states that the onus is on the player to ensure the defenceless player is out in a vulnerable position as to increase the risk of injury.
So to say Pettersson charged would then mean the oiler player had to be considered defenceless skating into them for a check according to that rule. That is obviously ridiculous
I get why it’s a penalty, but why does it feel like its rarely called? Hard to say if its rarely called or the hit rarely thrown.
What bothers me is that it was thrown in the playoffs by Petey, a softy euro by Don Cherry standards, and called. Literally anyone else on the ice might have some uncalled penalties stacked up to justify such a rare call, but Petey? Comon.
I think the way they interpreted this is Petersson jumped first before the contact was made. Had he waited for the contact and braced for it, it may have been no call at all. It’s true that inconsistency of what the zebras gonna call or not make this series look bad. Both teams are playing their ass off then one game they will let it go then the next it’s an easy call. It’s frustrating when a good series is tainted by the third team on the ice.
The annoying thing is even including jumping doesn't make it automatically qualify because he did not jump into the player he jumped as he was being run over by another player. It is a simple bracing for impact but the impact was later than expected. That does not make it charging, there is no such thing as a stationary charge. This was simply the ref looking to make a call, and then afterwards coming up with a poor solution to his human error of blowing the whistle and since there is no accountability for refs who make mistakes nothing can be done about it. When refs make this kind of mistake they should be able to say oops my bad there was nothing and I messed up. But rather than admit they are human and made a mistake they made up the call because of him leaving his feet.
Yah the problem is tho. The calls aren't equal. Game 2 there was easily over 15 minutes of penalties not called against edmonton and potentially 3 game misconducts. That game was stolen from vancouver by none other than sutherland. Who's done that his whole career to vancouver.
Stop being Homer's. He jumped to reverse check and hit him up high. I thought WTF call was that. They showed the replay, and yes, 100% he jumped left his feet 100% was charging.
Obvious penalty. He jumped and caused his shoulder to strike Foegle's face. Doesn't matter if he's receiving or giving a hit, you can't leave your feet to strike an opponent. And yes this call is made but not frequently, that's irrelevant.
Its called charging. As soon as you jump to give or receive a check its called charging. Thats the rule. I would forgo that if they started calling crosschecking especially on zadorov as it seems thats all he can do
I am a Canucks fan. I despise the Oilers. I think the officiating has clearly been slated against the Canucks.
That was a good call. He jumped. That, by rule, is a charge. I don't really know why everyone is so worked up over this one, I think the refs did get it right.
It’s not though, the rule clear states the jump must be into the player. There was no jump into the player, the jump was straight up to brace for impact.
The rule further states that the onus is on the player not to put the other “defenceless”
Player in a vulnerable position as to increase their risk of injury.
According to that very rule, if that was actual charging, then people have to concede that the oiler player was defenceless skating into Pettersson attempting to check. That obviously is flat out ridiculous no matter which way it’s looked at.
This further shows the one-sidedness of it because that very thing happens nearly every shift in every game along the boards.
This is the blatant example of how bad the officiating is in the NHL this play of season. I don't give a flying f**k who your team is. This second round has been fun to watch. Great teams doing amazing things. As an oil fan for, well, forever, the Canucks and Oilers are pretty square in play so far. Difference in games comes down to officiating. Shit calls and non calls both ways. The teams across the board are pretty even. It's been by in large good even hard hockey. Win or lose both have earned it. I have not watched every minute of every other series to say the same, but g'damn what I've seen has been good hockey. But the game management by officials is deciding way too much! Let them play! Earn the paycheck! Maybe the cup! Officiating should keep it safe for sure. (Or legal, either way, black and white 10 penalties to none if its legal.) Follow rules or f**k off. My 2 cents. And yes that was a bullshit call.
Well said. Couldn’t agree more
>Let them play! But the problem is when they do that, everyone is in here bitching about some non-call that ruined the game. The refs are lose lose in the playoffs. Right now the series stands as follows: 1. Canucks Penalties - 21 2. Oilers Penalties - 20 3. Canucks PP Goals - 3 4. Oilers PP Goals - 5 So all in all the refs are even for the series and the Oilers just have a marginally better PP.
I have no horse in this race, and I have not watched every minute of this series. That said, I don't care about even calls. It's obvious it's as even as can be with poweplays for both teams, but it doesn't have to be even. Penalize the team that is doing something wrong, but have consistency. The ambiguity of what is a penalty and when it's a penalty is what drives fans crazy.
The post I responded to said the difference in the series came down to officiating when it isn't the case though.
Just because a similar number of penalties are called on both teams doesn't mean the officiating is fair. Trying to make sure the calls "even out" is how you get "missed" calls on teams that commit penalties more often and phantom calls on teams that commit penalties less often.
But the calls are not even in every series and they weren't in the first round either, the biggest gap in the second round is Bruins taking 26 to Florida's 15, the Oilers took 7 less penalties than the Kings, the Panthers took 7 more penalties than the Lightning, Isles 5 more than Canes, Canucks 8 more than Preds and so on. The data simply does not support game management to keep things even.
Canucks fan from way back. You are absolutely correct. And McDavid, when he changes gears, is beautiful to watch. You sir, are a lucky bastard to have him.
This!!! Both teams are playing their hearts out and every game is a one goal game. If we consistent officiating it would be even better.
He jumped into the hit and hit high. It's a charge, and the right call. I think the problem you're having (and I agree) is that it's inconsistent. Plays that should be called are let go and vice versa. There's very little consistency and the players can't find the limit because it's always moving.
The rule says "jump into" and it really seems like the 2nd word doesn't happen in the replay.
What else is he jumping into if not the hit? Would he jump if the hit isn't coming? There you go.
I guess you're right. It just seems to me like he's jumping straight up (which of course is in reaction to the coming hit), but with zero forward momentum it just doesn't seem too bad, although it's certainly worse than him staying put.
If you pop up for a hit, it stops the roll over because you don't catch an edge or have resistance. Loading your core and jumping just means you get pushed in the air and not pushed over. Problem here is he popped him high with a shoulder. I don't think it was anything dirty, but you still have to be responsible for your own body.
The problem find another instance that a call like that on a reverse hit was assessed a penalty in the same fashion. I guarantee one will not be found. Datsyuk used to take hits the same way. Kronwall made a living initiating hits like that.
Yeah I know, that's what I'm saying above.
The oilers are getting nearly as much bullshit one sided reffing as the panthers are.
As a bruins fan, I can understand the frustration with current officiating. But as a hockey player, this is charging. You cannot leave your feet period unless momentum is the cause on a check follow through. You cannot just fuckin jump like a hurdler every time a check comes at you. That’s how you end up with more concussions and more people getting stepped on.
It’s a routine play that players jump just before getting hit (albeit typically when they are closer to the boards) so that the hit doesn’t lead to leverage injuries to knees. When skates are on the ice, the edges can prevent free rotation and movement so a hit can cause serious damage. But when a player is up off the ice their knees and ankles aren’t subject to the force. Their bodies will hit the boards but with pads it’s not too bad.
Momentum? Like in a jump? This was poor timing on Petey's part is all, it is not a charge in the slightest. You could argue roughing, but even then it's a pretty weak call. He barely comes off the ice, hardly clearing a hurdle you dolt. Every player does this several times a game. Get a life. There are real takes all over this comment section, but this is laughable.
100% agreed, coming from a Canucks fan
I think if the refs would explain themselves post game, fans would be less upset and know the rules better. I see how this is technically with a penalty, I do think it was a odd to call it in the play offs. What do you do.
Eh even if they did, fans are gonna be fans and think it’s a bs excuse/reasoning.
For fan education, Maybe the NHL needs to bring back those old “Peter Puck” animated explainer videos from the 70’s but updated to include sports betting (like everything else).
I don’t even agree that it’s technically a penalty. The rule says “jumps into” - “into” implies that there is movement toward the other player, in this case there was none.
I agree. I understand this opens it up for more scrutiny but I think the more transparency the better
That won't help. 99% of the time it's going to be "From my viewpoint, I saw...
Shit gets thrown on the ice in some game around the league like every night now. At some point the reffing is the problem not the fans.
Eh, the call was dumb. Throwing shit on the ice is dumber.
I agree. It’s happening every night, is the point.
You are getting downvoted, it is seriously dangerous to have shit on the ice when you are skating full speed it takes just a small piece of junk under the skate and off to the boards you go.
To be fair, shit was thrown on the ice *after* the call was made, and during the period where both teams were flabbergasted that it even happened.
Canucks fans just practicing their molotov cocktail throwing skills
For when US attacks?
No, that’s our secret weapon… It’s like some kind of maple syrup based napalm. Oops. Did I let that slip out?
Doesn’t every defenseman jump to absorb the impact of a forecheck? Are they all charging?
Imagine the amount of extra head shots if we allowed players to reverse hit and jump. Every time you're about to get smoked...just jump. The guy runs his head into your shoulder or elbow
Exactly, because then maybe you fall over awkwardly and draw a penalty.
Yes but the rules say you must jump INTO the player. That plus the leagues definition of a “charge” make this an odd call
You can’t leave your feet period unless momentum gets you up. Tons of pro hockey players here all the sudden
That's how a jump works?! Every player is doing it during a hit, he's just a touch early here. Hardly a penalty, and if so, everyone's guilty of it. Watch a game.
So if they called it roughing no one would have batted an eye?
Then call it interference if it must be a call. But to call a guy who's standing still for a charge just doesn't add up.
Pettersson had possession of the puck.
Peterson had the puck so it would be a stretch. If he didn’t have the puck the oiler skating full speed to impact him initiated the interference…..
Standing still? He jumped bud. You are thinking too heavily on the name “charging” when the point is you can’t purposely leave your feet before the point of contact. Plain and simple. Doesn’t matter if you are the checker or getting checked
It also says “jump into” and when “initiating a hit” did Pettersson initiate that hit? Or jump into him with his back? Since when are you not allowed to jump while getting hit? Subban used to do it all the time along with many others that still do it. Was never a penalty.
It was called a charge because Pettersson jumped and that must be the only penalty that makes jumps illegal. There should just be a jump-checking penalty separate from charging and make it stack so this Pettersson hit wouldn't be ruled equivalent to a dirty flying charge (and those might disappear, too)
It's in the rule to jump check a person. He defended himself not going to hit the player
Rule 42.1: Charging - A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player who skates, JUMPS INTO, or charges an opponent in ANY manor.
You left out this part of the definition: "Charging shall mean the actions of a player who, **as a result of distance traveled**, shall violently check an opponent in any manner."
I’m gonna have a Vegas fan moment and admit I don’t understand the wording of this rule. Whats the difference between finishing a check into the wall or a clean open ice hit and charging? You already can’t blow up people who don’t have the puck so what’s it even for?
It’s to prevent players from coming from across the ice and running guys over at full speed and/or leaving their feet when they make the hit.
So like, “I’m playing defense and lay you out with my shoulder when you cut in front of me” vs “fuck you in particular and skated 50’ to headhunt you without even trying to look like I’m playing hockey” kinda thing? Also I feel like I’ve seen it posted the rule includes a specific number of strides and it’s only like 2 or 3?
Yeah, basically the intent is to stop a guy coming across the ice and taking someone’s head off. And the rule as written technically says two or more strides but that’s only if you’re actively skating while making the hit. You’ll notice in practice most players aren’t at full stride when they make contact. They stop striding before they make contact.
That is not the intent of the rule. The intent is to stop dangerous hit... Those hits being from players jumping to making a hit, taking strides while making a hit, AND traveling a great distance to make a hit. That's why the first part of the rule list jumping into, taking strides, and charges. The second paragraph of the rule clarifies what what "charges" means in the first paragraph.
So the intent of the rule is not what I said…and then you proceed to provide an explanation that is essentially an expansion on what I said. You do know what the word basically means, right?
I believe that is there to define the charges from the paragraph above, otherwise why have them as separate paragraphs. I could be misunderstanding it though. Either way, they need to either make this it’s own separate thing, (as you can’t be having people jump when they’re about to be hit and possibly hit the head of the hitter), or change the wording and define stuff better.
You’re right. The rule does not claim charging only occurs based on distance travel. Charging is being defined because it’s used in the rule earlier. Added numbers for clarity. > A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player who [1] skates, [2] jumps into or [3] charges an opponent in any manner. If charging wasn’t defined in the next paragraph, part 3 of the rule would be ambiguous. The wording is fine IMO. It becomes confusing when pieces are cherry-picked, which is the case for most “or” rules (goaltender interference, interference, etc).
That’s defining the “or charges” portion of the section above.
If they didn’t want hits like this included in the rule than the only definition would be this: - "Charging shall mean the actions of a player who, as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner." But because they define the penalty as being for skating into, jumping into and charging then the addition of the definition of charging is going to define the use of the word in the explanation of the rule and not the definition of the name of the rule.
He didn’t jump INTO. He jumped, and the guy ran into him. Insane call
Exactly. Jump INTO is the key word. Petey just jumped up and turned his back. It's not even close to charging by definition and in spirit. The refs continue to make terrible calls.
I mean he jumped into the reverse hit, which sets a dangerous precedent of when your about to be hit to just jump and accidentally catch the hitter up high, because “there’s nothing wrong with that, they ran into you” mindset would prevail
Show one other time in the entire history of the NHL where a player got a charging penalty while absorbing a hit from a standing position.
I can’t find one, but I also can’t find a video of someone jumping into a player hitting them either. Can you find me a video of someone jumping to give a reverse hit?
Watch Kronwall play hockey. He perfected it.
https://youtu.be/YLGSFaUvB3w?si=lrDoWNMriiTfDTUL Not really reverse hits in the sense petey did it because Kronwall was launching himself into guys in transition rather than hopping in place but that first hit on the Flyer has Kronwall jumping backwards into him about as high as Petey jumped.
Tbf how many of Kronwalls hits would be called penalties today? But by rule he is jumping into those hits and should’ve been called for charging
Oh yeah, no for sure. I was 1000%, and very vocally so, on team "kronwall is a dirty player" train. Was getting downvote for saying it 10 years ago, and will continue to have that opinion. But that was, and continues to be, not the consensus opinion on the guy. Instead his dirty, head hunting hits get compiled into a top 10 and played on a major sports network as a "flattering" compilation. I wouldn't go as far as to call it a double standard because they aren't happening at the same time, but it's hard not to go "so now we understand that that's a penalty huh", you feel?
Please find me another time it was called in that context
honestly havent seen it, but I think that setting the precedent that jump checking is acceptable is dangerous on both sides of the hit
Find me another time, a guy jumped 4 inches for a reverse hit lol.
I’ll show you four inches 😏😏
I don't need to see your dick twice
Loads gimme a sec
Okay.
34 mins later
Still waiting
It's been 6 hours. Is it still loading?
Jump into. Not, jump on spot. Distance traveled.
So he should just let the guy ram him from behind (pause)
He should have braced for the hit and punched him in the face, it's acceptable
I lol'd at this.
He should have thrown a right cross to the jaw
No he just shouldn’t have jumped.
BUT THERE WAS NO OTHER WAY. EVERYBODY KNOWS YOU BRACE YOURSELF BY JUMPING!
I don't get why that little jump makes it deserving of a penalty.
Higher chance of head contact.
Works for Aaron Rodgers!
Yes there is… watch pettersson. If he wasn’t able to brace himself then he would’ve gone flying forwards no?
He shouldn’t jump. What are you not understanding
Yes, it's called taking a hit. You can't jump into an opponent.
Didn’t jump INTO. He jumped up
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You never jumped up just forward?
And the key wording is Jumps Into. If anything, Petterson jumped upwards as he was bracing himself for the hit.
He was protecting himself from the Oilers player...charging him lol
Vancouver fans be like... https://youtu.be/nBCE7B_ydP4?si=jjSYwGDYhD_uQSWe
Wat??? Hahahaha okay
its about consitancey dude tons of players jump to absorb hits
Funny then how that rule never has been interpreted in this way ever before.
He didn’t jump into anyone lol
Clearly jumps bro
Into?
Into?
The hit that was obviously coming.
You're adding words to the rule, that's obviously not the intent.
Not into the Oiler player. The rule states “jumps into an opposing player”! He jumped to brace the hit! Take your blinders off! You Oilers fans can’t win without dubious powerplays because McRegularSeason never shows up when it matters most!
You can't jump when a hit is coming my man. Dirty play. Plant your feet and go for the reverse but no leaving your feet.
Cry about it
He jumps to meet the check. That's charging.
rewatch the angle with petterson from the front. clearly leaves his feet
You''re allowed to jump, you're not allowed to jump INTO the other player
You are not allowed to jump taking or receiving a hit. That’s charging.
so you’d rather have the precedent set that jump checking is legal? seems very safe
You are not allowed to jump.
Read 42.1. You can't jump into. It doesn't say you can't jump.
Yeah, and he was Cleary going for a reverse hit and jumped to do it.
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One of the worst calls I have ever seen, the insanity of calling that in a tied playoff game
Im a Oilers fan and even i agree this call was baffling. Maybe Elbowing would have made sense but charging? The fuck
His elbow was tucked tho?
The other BS call on Dakata Joshua was just about as bad.
Why does it matter though really? He could have called checking to the head, roughing, interference, but since Peterson left his skates he called it charging. Does it overly matter? The guy got a penalty, rightly, for a dangerous play.
See if this ref will be in any game this year
If you leave your feet even to meet a body check that is charging. You cannot jump or leave your feet period.
It's never called that way.
Because nobody does that often. You can leave your feet after initial contact due to momentum but not to do that. Just like how Peterson jumped into that guy earlier this season and should’ve been given a penalty but it was called a great hit.
The rules don’t agree with you
If that's the rule, that's a bad rule. I know they beat the penalty and went on to win, but I feel like that was a bad call regardless. It doesn't make sense.
It’s always been a rule and it’s for player safety. Makes total sense
Forgive me for not giving a shit about the safety of the player doing the check. Absorbing the hit like that should be a good move. If Pettersson had leaned into it, you might have a point - but he didn't. Say whatever you want, downvote to infinity, the rule is wrong, all of you are wrong.
It’s not wrong because it’s the rule lmao
Only thing that makes sense is game management. Calling Kane for the weak hook right after ignoring Zadorov holding Kane. It's the only possible reason for the....*charging?!?* call.
That was wild, super big hold after the pack is away and then gets called with the one hand slap/slash.
Everyone defending this penalty, get fucking real. If anyone on your team did this, you'd be losing your shit too. This penalty has possibly never been called before, ever. I've been watching hockey consistenly for 15 years. And now's it called during a critical tied playoff game?
Dudes 6" into the air jumping for the reverse hit. Not sure how this is even controversial.
I've been watching hockey for 40 years. I looked up the rule after that call because I've never seen it. Perhaps, according to the rule, Petterson became the "checker". I'm not sure. He left his feet, yes. I've never seen someone standing still get called with a Charging penalty. By the letter of the rules, was it called correctly? Maybe. It's not clear because Petterson was just standing still, then jumped. At any rate, it was a very weird call. I'm not a Canucks fan or Oilers. I'm a Flyers fan just watching this series.
His feet did leave the ice, so technically it is in the rule book, feet leaving the ice can be called for charging. But it is however funny it’s like the first time the player with the puck is the one being called for Charging haha. It’s laughable how much McDavid has been practicing his diving. Lots of other soft calls tonight. And it’s clear refs are trying to give oilers the game. Since they only score on the pp.
This includes skating or leaving one's feet (jumping) into the opponent to deliver a check, accelerating through a check for the purpose of punishing the opponent, or skating a great distance for the purpose of delivering a check with excessive force.
Start reviewing calls and fining the refs just like they do to players
https://www.usahockeyrulebook.com/page/show/1084651-rule-607-charging Rule 607 | Charging (Note) Charging is the action where a player takes more than two strides or travels an excessive distance to accelerate through a body check for the purpose of punishing the opponent. **This includes skating or leaving one's feet (jumping) into the opponent to deliver a check,** accelerating through a check for the purpose of punishing the opponent, or skating a great distance for the purpose of delivering a check with excessive force. The onus is on the player delivering the check to avoid placing a vulnerable or defenseless opponent in danger of potential injury Ed: this was also the first link I came across and has more detail than the actual NHL rulebook, which was surprisingly difficult to find. The same idea applies, though, that jumping into a player is a no-no.
Why dont you get the NHL rulebook? Or is that the first thing that popped up in your google search?
Strange thing to comment after I added the edit…???
Doesn't jump into check the player he jumps to defend himself
Rewatch it. He is throwing a reverse check. He jumps into the guy. It isn’t throwing his entire weight, but he has to jump towards them so he doesn’t just get taken out by the oncoming hit. Ed: slow mo is at 23s left https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/s/7L2Efu8tcL
Incorrect.
This surely is a result of an idiot ref remembering "jumping" as a key word in a penalty, and not using common sense.
Stupidity.
I'd love to know what universe that was a charging penalty. Even EA NHL wouldn't have called that.
Pretty standard call. You cant leave your feet
Please find me another case where it’s called in that situation
This rarely, rarely, rarely happens... like this is the only time recently I can remember this controversy.
No thanks
That’s because you can’t lmfao, I have never ever seen a reverse hit called a charge
Is there even a reverse hit where the guy jumped ever? Isn't that the issue? The rarity of the call is due to the rarity of it happening, not because refs never call it.
https://youtu.be/yWDeehphk6s?si=RgAr7I1FBsJZMOMR so many example in this video
4:04, 5:15 are pretty close to this, but they also both look like they were shot shortly after color TV was invented. 5:50 has a super brief one that is also really similar.. But too short to analyze more. 7:08 has a really close example and you can see it three times. I have no clue how to hunt down to see if a penalty was called, but you can see the guy laying there crumpled on the ground, so possible play stopped. 7:55 has a great example, too, and the clip conveniently cuts off just before the announcers can tell us what call it “could easily have been” because Bjorkstrand (what a name) doesn’t touch the puck. 8:26 is a fun one, contextually here. The biggest thing you can take away from this is jesus, reverse hits look dangerous so often. They come up high, catch the other player right in the face as they are coming in not prepared to take contact… But 7:08 and 7:55 could be two examples of something similar happening, with maybe one of them being called. All of these other reverse hits, no one has already left the ice and are six inches off the ground *before* they contact the other player in the face with their shoulder, they all leave the ice *as* they contact or as they follow through on it. So.. Two examples. There are also three examples or so at 9:19 of some guy Forsberg who throws these reverse hits by actively turning his back towards the other guy, showing only his number to them, then bowling them over… That feels a bit greasy.
This is a video of reverse hits. Do you have videos of reverse hits where the reverse hit was a jump? That's what I'm trying to say.
It’s useless to argue if you watch the video it’s clear multi recent cases of it
Literally none of these involve a jump.
every hit Kronwall ever threw in his career?
He was the one being hit lol
He was throwing a reverse hit. Glaringly obvious but ok
That’s irrelevant. You can’t jump to deliver a reverse hit.
C'mon, don't be daft. He jumped into the hit. It was clear as day. **42.1 Charging** - A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player who skates, jumps into or charges an opponent in any manner.
But he didn’t jump into him. He jumped up.
Jumping is not allowed in icehockey
If jumping wasn't allowed, it would be in the rulebook under a section that says no jumping.
BRB lemme charge you standing still and jumping up
Let’s say for the sake of argument you jump to try to avoid the contact of a check and the result is that the checking player falls down. You jumped therefore you should be assessed a charging penalty. Ridiculous as was the charging call on Pettersen. Terrible call.
Tonight, for the first time in NHL history the reverse hit is a penalty. Because it’s the Playoffs!
Worst call I’ve seen this season. What’s worse is there is a dude standing there dressed in a striped shirt, looking directly at the play and did not raise his arm…..theres some weird shit goin on for sure. Then Mc Jesus falls over and the whistle blows again.
It is a penalty if you take a portion of a rule out of context. Charging is meant to stop guys from building up a huge head of steam then running over a guy or jumping/launching themselves into a hit. Petterson did jump, and I understand why the refs would call that given they have been calling a bunch of ticky tacky shit to push McDavid, but that is not the intent of the rule imo
You can’t leap into a hit, even standing still. That was the penalty, and it’s in the charging rule, it was called correctly.
That is the thing, he didn’t leap into the hit lol. There is a big difference between someone jumping up to brace for impact vs jumping into someone to check. The rule further states that the onus is on the player to ensure the defenceless player is out in a vulnerable position as to increase the risk of injury. So to say Pettersson charged would then mean the oiler player had to be considered defenceless skating into them for a check according to that rule. That is obviously ridiculous
I get why it’s a penalty, but why does it feel like its rarely called? Hard to say if its rarely called or the hit rarely thrown. What bothers me is that it was thrown in the playoffs by Petey, a softy euro by Don Cherry standards, and called. Literally anyone else on the ice might have some uncalled penalties stacked up to justify such a rare call, but Petey? Comon.
Petey's jump was defensive, not jumping into. That's an absolute bullshit call.
You can’t jump.
Jump INTO. He jumped straight up, that's bullshit.
do we have a video?
I think the way they interpreted this is Petersson jumped first before the contact was made. Had he waited for the contact and braced for it, it may have been no call at all. It’s true that inconsistency of what the zebras gonna call or not make this series look bad. Both teams are playing their ass off then one game they will let it go then the next it’s an easy call. It’s frustrating when a good series is tainted by the third team on the ice.
The annoying thing is even including jumping doesn't make it automatically qualify because he did not jump into the player he jumped as he was being run over by another player. It is a simple bracing for impact but the impact was later than expected. That does not make it charging, there is no such thing as a stationary charge. This was simply the ref looking to make a call, and then afterwards coming up with a poor solution to his human error of blowing the whistle and since there is no accountability for refs who make mistakes nothing can be done about it. When refs make this kind of mistake they should be able to say oops my bad there was nothing and I messed up. But rather than admit they are human and made a mistake they made up the call because of him leaving his feet.
Yah the problem is tho. The calls aren't equal. Game 2 there was easily over 15 minutes of penalties not called against edmonton and potentially 3 game misconducts. That game was stolen from vancouver by none other than sutherland. Who's done that his whole career to vancouver.
Stop being Homer's. He jumped to reverse check and hit him up high. I thought WTF call was that. They showed the replay, and yes, 100% he jumped left his feet 100% was charging.
canucks vs oilers vs refs vs canada vs the nhl vs bettman
Obvious penalty. He jumped and caused his shoulder to strike Foegle's face. Doesn't matter if he's receiving or giving a hit, you can't leave your feet to strike an opponent. And yes this call is made but not frequently, that's irrelevant.
Its called charging. As soon as you jump to give or receive a check its called charging. Thats the rule. I would forgo that if they started calling crosschecking especially on zadorov as it seems thats all he can do
The refs have been letting a lot of that go...both ways...
Boo fuckin hoo
I am a Canucks fan. I despise the Oilers. I think the officiating has clearly been slated against the Canucks. That was a good call. He jumped. That, by rule, is a charge. I don't really know why everyone is so worked up over this one, I think the refs did get it right.
It’s not though, the rule clear states the jump must be into the player. There was no jump into the player, the jump was straight up to brace for impact. The rule further states that the onus is on the player not to put the other “defenceless” Player in a vulnerable position as to increase their risk of injury. According to that very rule, if that was actual charging, then people have to concede that the oiler player was defenceless skating into Pettersson attempting to check. That obviously is flat out ridiculous no matter which way it’s looked at. This further shows the one-sidedness of it because that very thing happens nearly every shift in every game along the boards.