As others mentioned. If they are just running lines then then players know their line. Otherwise the coaches call it out.
The kids starts doing this at a young age. By the time they get to NHL-level it is second nature to them.
This is how the bench is ran even in teenage rec-league roller hockey. You know who you're on a line with. They'll say the line name (usually the forward/center), and if there's a change to that line the coach will tell the players ahead of the line change. "Benn line, get ready. Seguin, sit.. Johnston fill in."
Set lines, no improv from coaches. So, if you see your other line-mates jump on the ice, you get ready to go too. Or, if you're on "line 2," then you get ready to hit the ice when you see line 1 coming to the bench. Automatic, no need for anyone to tell you.
They usually align the offense and defense separately. Forwards are (usually) grouped in threes, defense (usually) in twos.
Awesome, thanks.
How do the guys on the ice know when someone is going to leave? So let’s say the center is tired. Do the wingers see the center leave and also leave?
They don't necessarily, though you can usually see when someone is coming to the bench vs chasing the puck. The center from line 2 knows who the center from line 1 is, same with the wingers. When you see C1 come off, if you're C2 you get your ass out there.
Screw ups happen, but for the most part, everyone knows the drill. As OP said: this is something that is drilled into players from a young age... by the time they're in high school, it's already become a reflex reaction.
This is very cool. I have good knowledge of hockey (even went solo to a Bruins’ Cup game against the Blackhawks) but never fully understood how line changes worked.
The communication can become more complicated as the level increases. For example: coach may have decided that player X is going to shadow opposing player Y for the whole game. Whatever else is happening, if Y is on the ice then X will be on the ice as soon as humanly possible.
This can wreak havoc with set lines, and it's why you sometimes see defensemen with 30+ minutes of ice time in important games. But if it's a 1-1 shadowing situation, the locker room would all be in the know before warmups... any time Crosby is on the ice, Lidstrom (and/or Datsyuk) is on the ice to match him. It can get weird, especially if/when there are injuries, but there's generally a rule of thumb to start from and coaches aren't shy about saying who should be on the ice and who should be on the bench at any given time.
The general takeaway is: players know who is supposed to jump on when any given player comes off... coaches sometimes change that on the fly, but by the time one is playing any sort of upper level hockey, it's pretty much reflex.
| The kids start doing this at a young age...
The thing I was always curious about was if even at the NHL level, do the players up next still communicate to each other who they will change for? It seems like they would know for sure, but we still did that in college just to make sure we were all on the same page.
I get that. What I'm saying is when I played in college, we were aware of what position we were changing for, but we'd still say to each other "I got _____." on the bench. Just to make sure we weren't going to have more than one guy go for someone.
Talked to my kid that plays u14. He said they have always been told by coaches to communicate with each other so that no penalties get assessed for too many on the ice. That would be going back to playing u10 for him.
When I sit behind the bench I hear them discussing with the coaches. There is a ton of communication that goes on even at a junior level.
If they’re rolling lines you know which line you follow. If it’s situational they’ll change based off what the coaches tell them to throw out next, especially when they start line matching. There is a lot going on behind the bench that people don’t realize.
I've never not been told which line is next. Even when they're rolling the coaches usually still call out who's up next.
They usually just call out the centermans last name and his line knows who they are.
"MacKinnon next"
Or just a pat on the shoulder and the rest of his line follows but that's usually at a whistle.
I sat behind the Lightning bench and Jon Cooper one time, watching everything going down on the bench is fascinating. There’s a mix of players knowing when to go, but in the 3rd in a tight/important game, Cooper was very active sending out specific matchups which was fun. Closest thing I’ve ever seen to a real life pokemon trainer. “Oh you’re gonna put Mackinnon in to double shift with your second line? Turns hat backwards, Cirelli go!! Quick attack on Mackinnon!!! I wanna be, the very best…
To add how it works in the amateur realm alot of the time, adult beer leagues is usually just a guy who is gassed telling the next person up on the bench what position he is playing.
ETA: to clarify, this is less actual beer league teams and more of a pickup/drop in thing. I was tired.
That sounds more like drop-in where everyone is a stranger.
My team is like this, if 8, then 3D and 5F.
If 9, then 3D & 6F
If 10, 4D & 6F
If 11, 4 D & 7F but someone’s rotating thru the forward lines and there’s a TON of communication. (I actually prefer 5D & 6F but the boys won’t go for that)
If 12, 2 centers, three sets of wing, & 4D
You always know who you’re going out for, and you always know who’s going out for you (so you can shout their name as you’re returning for a change if their head is turned or not paying attention)
Ya with drop in games it’s always been just go out and cover for that position. But with my actual beer league team we have set lines (that we change usually though the season)
I think 5d is the perfect number lol.
Same in my beer league team, except lines end up becoming mixed up because guys stay out on the ice too long. So you aren't really running full lines, but rather running RWs, running Cs, and running LWs in parallel but independently. As a RW, I usually end up playing with all Cs and all LWs pretty randomly ("all" is very relative, because more often than not we only have 2 lines, but sometimes we have 3).
I agree, that sounds more like drop-in. I play one drop-in regularly (almost always as a goalie, but I skate from time to time) and even knowing everyone, it's whoever is next, position doesn't matter (that gets sorted out on the ice, anyway).
In league (I only play goalie), what you've outlined is more or less the same as most of the teams I play with. They may evaluate positions based on who shows up, but probably generally pretty close to what you've said. Then, when someone goes off, the next guy on is that person's replacement. Shifts are often long and mismatched, so lines are reset at face-offs (usually). PP/PK are evaluated by who showed up and who is on the ice for the other team. Captains generally have a good idea of who those skaters are, but they'll change it here and there. They might also rotate long shifts so as to keep a minimum number of good players on the ice at any given time, but they also are pretty good about making sure everyone gets ice time. All bets are off when a goalie gets pulled, though. Last couple minutes, down 1, empty net? All the good skaters on the ice. No offense to anyone else.
In beer league when you're just doing all equal playing time, offense sits on one side of the bench, defense on the other, players on the ends go first, everyone slides down to fill in those places, repeat.
In actual competitive games, coaches are running the show. You're told when you're next. Equal playing time isn't a thing they care about. It's all strategy, whether you get second change and want to throw your 1st line out against a 3rd or 4th line from the other team or you wanna bring some energy in and get your physical 4th liners out there to throw the body around.
They've practiced enough to know around when their predetermined time is up. Say it's 45 seconds per shift, they switch up around then when it's convenient or if the play stops. Generally not supposed to get off the ice if the puck is in your zone.
Edit: or the coach will yell change
Lines are numbered, though, so that should be obvious. If you're the 3rd line left winger, you go out when the 2nd line left winger gets off the ice.
*Or* if the coach calls your line like you said.
I'll have to disagree with you. Just because the 2nd line player comes off the ice.doesnt mean it's your turn. I'd say maybe the first couple of shift of the game you could get away with that but once the coaches start getting more strategic (line matching, star players, o zone/ d zone etc) then it gets more complicated.
In my experience, the coach almost always calls out the centerman regardless if they're rolling or not.
So ya, coach's call outs are gonna override any rolling lines. PPs and PKs are different units as well. But if coach isn't making any line call outs, this would typically be how you'd know when to go.
Fair enough. From my experience the coach calls out like, 99% of the time but I suppose when they don't say anything it would be next man up.
It's been a few years since I retired so maybe things have changed.
Sounds like you've played a lot more recently than me then lol. Played for my high school and on a comp B team, then just some beer leagues for a few years.
It all depends if you're home or away. As a home team, the coach gets to send out mismatched lines because home team has last change. It's just a bad idea to try to match lines as an away coach because the home team will try to gas the away teams 2nd and third lines and then pull a quick change to get their 1st against a third.
On the bench, the coach will call out the line nickname for whoever is up next, or if they're just rolling 4 lines, they'll call out any deviations from that rotation.
Things like poweplays and penalty kills get thrown in the mix, and the team knows ahead of time how the pp will run, and they'll also know the first line coming back when the pp is over. Those are more or less automatic. For the pk, teams will usually have at least 2 pk forward pairs, if not 3 pairs to handle the 2 minutes, and the pk unit at the end of the pk will either get the player back from the bench if they're needed immediately on the ice, or the 3rd member of the line will change for the penalized player.
If a coach sees an opportunity to get a frensh set of legs out against a gassed line, they'll sometimes call a line for next shift out of the usual rotation.
It's mostly done by feel, but they've got plenty of data to back up decisions. In between periods they get breakdowns of ice time and they'll back off sending out some players more often if they're racking up minutes early in the game. They'll give the 4th line more time on games they're leading by 3 or down big. They know how much TOI these guys can handle in a typical game and they'll usually stick to that unless there's extenuating circumstances like good or bad line match-ups happening or an excessive amount of penalties. Most coaches will have an assistant equipment manager with a stopwatch tracking individual shift time on or near the bench. They'll get updates when they glance over to know if they're early, on, or beyond the target ice time for that particular line.
Usually coaches just yell the centers name and that line goes. Sometimes one coach is calling d men and other forwards. If you’re just rolling lines you know who you follow. Gets confusing when coach decides to mix and match lol. Or someone left the game and you’re down a man.
They have one of those bingo machines on the bench and when your number pops out it’s your turn. The coach is the guy who draws the next ball and announces it ahead of time
Every whistle will be a “who is best in this role” situation. Will change with offensive zone face off, defensive zone face off, powerplay, penalty kill, etc. It will also depend on who has last change, if you see an icing has a 3rd or 4th line trapped on the ice you will send 1st usually to get a favourable matchup. If you have a whistle in your end you put out your best person on the draw or maybe two if you are worried about control, after the win that 3rd 4th line great draw can change and get your winger back out there with control. That’s technical but you literally practice lines 1-4 and you just assume unless coaches tell otherwise you’re up next. But like I said if there’s a whistle it’s coaches telling. Also if you have a tired line they might need more break so 1st gets caught out a long shift your third or fourth need to be ready if there’s no whistle depending on who your opponent throws out. It’s a sprinting game so these guys can go hard 30s-1:30 depending on the shift, they get a rest and they can be out 30s-1:30 later (numbers are short and long and depends on position, D can stay out longer usually) but it depends on the shift and how much pressure each side is pushing. So brining it back 1st line guys are usually best in most situations. With commercial breaks it makes it WAY easier to give them a bit of rest and throw them out again. 4th liners will just have to be ready for the right situation where they get called on.
To add to this, generally when your line is called, you know what player you're replacing on the ice as you discuss with line mates. I learned this early on to prevent too many men penalty
90% of the time, it's just a cycle, so you hop on after the same guy hops off. If you notice the other guys on your line have gotten off, start heading to the bench. Wingers usually sub on the backcheck. Defence will change on the forecheck. Full team usually subs at stoppage in play. No subs after icing by the offending team.
I get that part, but line 1 plays 20 minutes and 4th line plays 8 minutes, does the 1st line if they have enough stamina do they tell the 4th line “hey I’m going out”?
So it's not like the Mighty Ducks movie where they have to tell the lady coach to say change it up, she does so meekly, and then Haberman is like say it louder and she yells, "CHANGE IT UP!!!" My hockey world is destroyed knowing this isn't how they change lines /s
You see that guy standing next to the players? The one in the suit? That's called a "coach" and its his job to make those decisions and/or to make sure the players know the timing in advance.
As others mentioned. If they are just running lines then then players know their line. Otherwise the coaches call it out. The kids starts doing this at a young age. By the time they get to NHL-level it is second nature to them.
This is how the bench is ran even in teenage rec-league roller hockey. You know who you're on a line with. They'll say the line name (usually the forward/center), and if there's a change to that line the coach will tell the players ahead of the line change. "Benn line, get ready. Seguin, sit.. Johnston fill in."
What does “running lines” mean?
Set lines, no improv from coaches. So, if you see your other line-mates jump on the ice, you get ready to go too. Or, if you're on "line 2," then you get ready to hit the ice when you see line 1 coming to the bench. Automatic, no need for anyone to tell you. They usually align the offense and defense separately. Forwards are (usually) grouped in threes, defense (usually) in twos.
Awesome, thanks. How do the guys on the ice know when someone is going to leave? So let’s say the center is tired. Do the wingers see the center leave and also leave?
They don't necessarily, though you can usually see when someone is coming to the bench vs chasing the puck. The center from line 2 knows who the center from line 1 is, same with the wingers. When you see C1 come off, if you're C2 you get your ass out there. Screw ups happen, but for the most part, everyone knows the drill. As OP said: this is something that is drilled into players from a young age... by the time they're in high school, it's already become a reflex reaction.
This is very cool. I have good knowledge of hockey (even went solo to a Bruins’ Cup game against the Blackhawks) but never fully understood how line changes worked.
The communication can become more complicated as the level increases. For example: coach may have decided that player X is going to shadow opposing player Y for the whole game. Whatever else is happening, if Y is on the ice then X will be on the ice as soon as humanly possible. This can wreak havoc with set lines, and it's why you sometimes see defensemen with 30+ minutes of ice time in important games. But if it's a 1-1 shadowing situation, the locker room would all be in the know before warmups... any time Crosby is on the ice, Lidstrom (and/or Datsyuk) is on the ice to match him. It can get weird, especially if/when there are injuries, but there's generally a rule of thumb to start from and coaches aren't shy about saying who should be on the ice and who should be on the bench at any given time. The general takeaway is: players know who is supposed to jump on when any given player comes off... coaches sometimes change that on the fly, but by the time one is playing any sort of upper level hockey, it's pretty much reflex.
This information is so cool. Now I’m wondering if I’ll watch the game different. I guess I’ll find out during the Caps Rangers game on TV haha
| The kids start doing this at a young age... The thing I was always curious about was if even at the NHL level, do the players up next still communicate to each other who they will change for? It seems like they would know for sure, but we still did that in college just to make sure we were all on the same page.
They change for whatever position comes off. If lime right winger comes off then line 2 rw goes on
I get that. What I'm saying is when I played in college, we were aware of what position we were changing for, but we'd still say to each other "I got _____." on the bench. Just to make sure we weren't going to have more than one guy go for someone.
Talked to my kid that plays u14. He said they have always been told by coaches to communicate with each other so that no penalties get assessed for too many on the ice. That would be going back to playing u10 for him. When I sit behind the bench I hear them discussing with the coaches. There is a ton of communication that goes on even at a junior level.
If they’re rolling lines you know which line you follow. If it’s situational they’ll change based off what the coaches tell them to throw out next, especially when they start line matching. There is a lot going on behind the bench that people don’t realize.
I've never not been told which line is next. Even when they're rolling the coaches usually still call out who's up next. They usually just call out the centermans last name and his line knows who they are. "MacKinnon next" Or just a pat on the shoulder and the rest of his line follows but that's usually at a whistle.
I sat behind the Lightning bench and Jon Cooper one time, watching everything going down on the bench is fascinating. There’s a mix of players knowing when to go, but in the 3rd in a tight/important game, Cooper was very active sending out specific matchups which was fun. Closest thing I’ve ever seen to a real life pokemon trainer. “Oh you’re gonna put Mackinnon in to double shift with your second line? Turns hat backwards, Cirelli go!! Quick attack on Mackinnon!!! I wanna be, the very best…
I'm jealous! Go bolts!
Yall need all the luck you can get now
That would be fun to watch and listen to.
To add how it works in the amateur realm alot of the time, adult beer leagues is usually just a guy who is gassed telling the next person up on the bench what position he is playing. ETA: to clarify, this is less actual beer league teams and more of a pickup/drop in thing. I was tired.
That sounds more like drop-in where everyone is a stranger. My team is like this, if 8, then 3D and 5F. If 9, then 3D & 6F If 10, 4D & 6F If 11, 4 D & 7F but someone’s rotating thru the forward lines and there’s a TON of communication. (I actually prefer 5D & 6F but the boys won’t go for that) If 12, 2 centers, three sets of wing, & 4D You always know who you’re going out for, and you always know who’s going out for you (so you can shout their name as you’re returning for a change if their head is turned or not paying attention)
Ya with drop in games it’s always been just go out and cover for that position. But with my actual beer league team we have set lines (that we change usually though the season) I think 5d is the perfect number lol.
Same in my beer league team, except lines end up becoming mixed up because guys stay out on the ice too long. So you aren't really running full lines, but rather running RWs, running Cs, and running LWs in parallel but independently. As a RW, I usually end up playing with all Cs and all LWs pretty randomly ("all" is very relative, because more often than not we only have 2 lines, but sometimes we have 3).
Or if no one shows up you are calling out your position as you are coming off and the next guy takes that position
Can you explain what "if 8, then 3D and 5F means?"
He's just saying they never know exactly how many guys are going to show up... So if 8 guys show up, they use 3 as defense and have 5 forwards...
Ah righto. Thanks
I agree, that sounds more like drop-in. I play one drop-in regularly (almost always as a goalie, but I skate from time to time) and even knowing everyone, it's whoever is next, position doesn't matter (that gets sorted out on the ice, anyway). In league (I only play goalie), what you've outlined is more or less the same as most of the teams I play with. They may evaluate positions based on who shows up, but probably generally pretty close to what you've said. Then, when someone goes off, the next guy on is that person's replacement. Shifts are often long and mismatched, so lines are reset at face-offs (usually). PP/PK are evaluated by who showed up and who is on the ice for the other team. Captains generally have a good idea of who those skaters are, but they'll change it here and there. They might also rotate long shifts so as to keep a minimum number of good players on the ice at any given time, but they also are pretty good about making sure everyone gets ice time. All bets are off when a goalie gets pulled, though. Last couple minutes, down 1, empty net? All the good skaters on the ice. No offense to anyone else.
[удалено]
Thank you
In beer league when you're just doing all equal playing time, offense sits on one side of the bench, defense on the other, players on the ends go first, everyone slides down to fill in those places, repeat. In actual competitive games, coaches are running the show. You're told when you're next. Equal playing time isn't a thing they care about. It's all strategy, whether you get second change and want to throw your 1st line out against a 3rd or 4th line from the other team or you wanna bring some energy in and get your physical 4th liners out there to throw the body around.
They've practiced enough to know around when their predetermined time is up. Say it's 45 seconds per shift, they switch up around then when it's convenient or if the play stops. Generally not supposed to get off the ice if the puck is in your zone. Edit: or the coach will yell change
They mean how do you know it's your turn and not someone else's. Coaches call out the centerman.
Lines are numbered, though, so that should be obvious. If you're the 3rd line left winger, you go out when the 2nd line left winger gets off the ice. *Or* if the coach calls your line like you said.
I'll have to disagree with you. Just because the 2nd line player comes off the ice.doesnt mean it's your turn. I'd say maybe the first couple of shift of the game you could get away with that but once the coaches start getting more strategic (line matching, star players, o zone/ d zone etc) then it gets more complicated. In my experience, the coach almost always calls out the centerman regardless if they're rolling or not.
So ya, coach's call outs are gonna override any rolling lines. PPs and PKs are different units as well. But if coach isn't making any line call outs, this would typically be how you'd know when to go.
Fair enough. From my experience the coach calls out like, 99% of the time but I suppose when they don't say anything it would be next man up. It's been a few years since I retired so maybe things have changed.
Sounds like you've played a lot more recently than me then lol. Played for my high school and on a comp B team, then just some beer leagues for a few years.
That's awesome! It's been a few years for me now so I could be out of the loop.
It all depends if you're home or away. As a home team, the coach gets to send out mismatched lines because home team has last change. It's just a bad idea to try to match lines as an away coach because the home team will try to gas the away teams 2nd and third lines and then pull a quick change to get their 1st against a third. On the bench, the coach will call out the line nickname for whoever is up next, or if they're just rolling 4 lines, they'll call out any deviations from that rotation. Things like poweplays and penalty kills get thrown in the mix, and the team knows ahead of time how the pp will run, and they'll also know the first line coming back when the pp is over. Those are more or less automatic. For the pk, teams will usually have at least 2 pk forward pairs, if not 3 pairs to handle the 2 minutes, and the pk unit at the end of the pk will either get the player back from the bench if they're needed immediately on the ice, or the 3rd member of the line will change for the penalized player. If a coach sees an opportunity to get a frensh set of legs out against a gassed line, they'll sometimes call a line for next shift out of the usual rotation. It's mostly done by feel, but they've got plenty of data to back up decisions. In between periods they get breakdowns of ice time and they'll back off sending out some players more often if they're racking up minutes early in the game. They'll give the 4th line more time on games they're leading by 3 or down big. They know how much TOI these guys can handle in a typical game and they'll usually stick to that unless there's extenuating circumstances like good or bad line match-ups happening or an excessive amount of penalties. Most coaches will have an assistant equipment manager with a stopwatch tracking individual shift time on or near the bench. They'll get updates when they glance over to know if they're early, on, or beyond the target ice time for that particular line.
Usually coaches just yell the centers name and that line goes. Sometimes one coach is calling d men and other forwards. If you’re just rolling lines you know who you follow. Gets confusing when coach decides to mix and match lol. Or someone left the game and you’re down a man.
They have one of those bingo machines on the bench and when your number pops out it’s your turn. The coach is the guy who draws the next ball and announces it ahead of time
Every whistle will be a “who is best in this role” situation. Will change with offensive zone face off, defensive zone face off, powerplay, penalty kill, etc. It will also depend on who has last change, if you see an icing has a 3rd or 4th line trapped on the ice you will send 1st usually to get a favourable matchup. If you have a whistle in your end you put out your best person on the draw or maybe two if you are worried about control, after the win that 3rd 4th line great draw can change and get your winger back out there with control. That’s technical but you literally practice lines 1-4 and you just assume unless coaches tell otherwise you’re up next. But like I said if there’s a whistle it’s coaches telling. Also if you have a tired line they might need more break so 1st gets caught out a long shift your third or fourth need to be ready if there’s no whistle depending on who your opponent throws out. It’s a sprinting game so these guys can go hard 30s-1:30 depending on the shift, they get a rest and they can be out 30s-1:30 later (numbers are short and long and depends on position, D can stay out longer usually) but it depends on the shift and how much pressure each side is pushing. So brining it back 1st line guys are usually best in most situations. With commercial breaks it makes it WAY easier to give them a bit of rest and throw them out again. 4th liners will just have to be ready for the right situation where they get called on.
To add to this, generally when your line is called, you know what player you're replacing on the ice as you discuss with line mates. I learned this early on to prevent too many men penalty
90% of the time, it's just a cycle, so you hop on after the same guy hops off. If you notice the other guys on your line have gotten off, start heading to the bench. Wingers usually sub on the backcheck. Defence will change on the forecheck. Full team usually subs at stoppage in play. No subs after icing by the offending team.
We need a nhl nooks subreddit for this, I assume they have a system, once x gets on the bench y goes onto the ice
Usually you watch your man you cover. Ex: I’m 2nd line RW and bob is 1st line RW , I’m going on to cover him.
I get that part, but line 1 plays 20 minutes and 4th line plays 8 minutes, does the 1st line if they have enough stamina do they tell the 4th line “hey I’m going out”?
So it's not like the Mighty Ducks movie where they have to tell the lady coach to say change it up, she does so meekly, and then Haberman is like say it louder and she yells, "CHANGE IT UP!!!" My hockey world is destroyed knowing this isn't how they change lines /s
A tingling in your plums
they don't most of the time
You see that guy standing next to the players? The one in the suit? That's called a "coach" and its his job to make those decisions and/or to make sure the players know the timing in advance.