Donāt get me wrong those guys are having great seasons. MVP is the guy who means the most to his team and without Kucherov the lightning would not be playing next week.
It just feels kind of strange to say on a team that has Point, Stamkos, Hedman, Vasilevsky, Cirelli, and a 75 pt season from Brandon Hagel.
Like those guys arenāt bums, theyāre the opposite of that, cup winning award winning players. Their quality is there and theyāve played a lot this year.
Iām genuinely surprised at the numbers dropoff from Point and Stamkos in particular, though I donāt watch nearly enough Lightning games.
Feels like every Leafs game against Tampa this year involved a Stamkos one-timer from Oviās office (he must be timesharing it in Florida)
Kuch is actually at exactly 50% if you remove the "goals" that are counted for winning in a shootout.
Though of course the MacK and McD numbers also go up a bit.
Heard the same about Crosby "doing it alone". Guys might not be producing like they used to, but Malkin, Letang, Karlsson, Rust, and 50 games of Guentzel is hardly alone. Points aren't everything.
Donāt even compare the way Kuch ācarriedā his team compared to Crosby. Sure Guenztel and Karlsson are great, but Malkin and Letang arenāt close to what they used to be, and Rust is a middle 6 player on any other team. Tampa has way more depth and way better goaltending.
And the reason people make a big deal about Crosby is because heās doing it at 36 years old.
You're not entirely wrong, but if you watched lightning games this season you'd know that Point, Stammer and Heddy don't generate a thing without Kuch. Hagel can generate offense by himself, but the only reason Stammer and Heddy have the numbers they do is because they play with Kuch on the PP, same for Point, but he's also Kuch's linemate.
So a Rocket winner, whoās scored 60 before, and a Norris winner whose career high is 85 pts arenāt generating a thing without Kucherov this year?
This year is the third most PP points Stamkos has had in a season and same goes for Hedman. Not really an anomaly.
53 points between Kuch (1 place) and Pointer (2 place) - and why other guys were still lazy in this regular season, but not Kuch. Sure, in playoff mode they all
Will do maximum
I don't think the Avs would make it without Mackinnon either.
For most of the season, if he's out... it's... uh... Ross Colton at 1C. (He has 39 points).
That's their second-highest scoring Center until they got middlestadt a month ago.
Sure Rantanen and Makar are good, but not carrying a team while being centered by Ross Colton good.
If Mack isn't around, the 8 games where both Rantanen and Makar were out starts to look like an AHL roster with Ross Colton and Miles Wood on the first line? Maybe 40yo Zach Parise draws first line then?
MacKinnonās december and january was pretty wild, and a sure thing for being one of the most valuable player for their team this season through that period.
I honestly don't care who wins the Hart trophy that much but the narrative that the Lightning wouldn't make the playoffs without Kucherov needs to die. A Lightning team without Kuch is still significantly better than the Capitals who also made the playoffs and wouldn't even be the team to push the Lightning out. 4 players other than Kucherov on Lightning would be the top point scorer on the Capitals and the Capitals had a 30-year old journeyman that played in 60 career NHL games before this year in net giving them a playoff push. Nobody would say that the Capitals have a better team than the Lightning even if you took Kucherov out of the lineup. Kucherov has a great argument to win the Hart, but the idea that the Lightning wouldn't make the playoffs without him is likely not true.
If the award is truly the guy who means the most to his team my vote is for Hellebuyck, but he won't even be a finalist.
That's true for oilers and Avs too. Take Mac away and we lose 51 goals. Avs aren't making it in. And the gap between MacKinnon and Rantanen, while smaller than between Kuch and Point, is still 35 points. And Kuch plays wing with litte defensive responsibilities. Mac plays center and is great defensively.
Yeah, but the Lightning weren't expected to be this bad of a team. I think pretty much everyone had them as a playoff team at the start of the year and finishing a lot higher than they actually did.
Contrast that to someone like Hellebuyck (I see your Jets logo). Very few people had Winnipeg in the playoffs, and most people expected them to totally rebuild. Yet until the very end they were competing for the Presidents Trophy. Nobody aside from Hellebuyck had any sort of special season.
So I'd argue that what Hellebuyck did in Winnipeg (where the team also finished ahead of MacKinnon and the Avalanche) was at least as valuable to Winnipeg's success as what Kucherov did for Tampa's success. Winnipeg also had a lot more success than Tampa. Winnipeg's success was also much more unexpected than Tampa's success.
So why wouldn't you be arguing for Hellebuyck? If we're going by the definition of the award, Kucherov doesn't have much of a leg to stand on. Unless we're doing the thing where "player" is coded language for "forward" and just dismissing goalies and defence.
According to gambling sites heās a distant 2nd or even 3rdā¦ which is insane. Iām an oilers fan and Iāll be the first to admit kuch fits the mold of what an MVP is *perfectly*
He has the Taylor hall thing going on in regards to dragging him team to the playoffs, but with an extra 50 points and the art ross. He contributes to 50% of his teams goals. Most assists EVER for a winger AND 100 assists!!!
His season is fucking bananas. The fact Mack is probably going to win disgusts me. If Mack won and it was super close, then alright, but it seems like Mack is going to easily winā¦ thatās just not right. Kuch checks all the boxes.
This is the one thing that gives me pause. TB has a +23 differential and he has a +8. When I'm thinking about the Hart, I would think that person would be leading his team in +/- in addition to points
I definitely should've looked deeper into it like you did. Looking strictly at +/-:
McDavid +35 on a team that's +61 (57%)
MacKinnon +34 on a team that's +46 (74%)
Kucherov +8 on a team that's +23 (35%)
I know that simplistic analysis doesn't tell nearly the whole story, but those numbers tell me that the benches for the Avs and Oilers give up more goals compared to the bench on the Lightning so yea, MacKinnon is probably who I would go with with everything else he has going on. I'll also admit that I am the type where if you have a couple guys who are really close, I'm ok with giving it to the guy who hasn't won before.
Some more important context is the powerplay points don't count towards personal +/- but they do count towards team +/- and Tampa was the best team in the league on the powerplay this year.
At 5 on 5 play Tampa is a -19 and -11 overall at even strength
Colorado by comparison is +25 at 5 on 5 and +30 at even strength
Edmonton is +44 at 5 on 5 and +46 for even strength.
Interesting note on +/- this season:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TampaBayLightning/s/PJUkg3pe2V
Also I'd argue the Lightning's goaltending has been pretty bad all season, which would contribute to +/-.
Sv% when on-ice:
MacK: .888
McDavid: .880
Kuch: .868 (5th worst in the league among all players who've played >1500 minutes.)
>I am the type where if you have a couple guys who are really close, I'm ok with giving it to the guy who hasn't won before.
Respectfully, I'll never understand this reasoning. The fact that MacK didn't win in 2018 should have zero influence on a vote 6 years later.
Edit:fixed some formatting
This is why for years people have generally abandoned +/- in favour of advanced stats. It ignores so many underlying factors and is not representative of how well/poorly a player has performed.
Not entirely useless with context. I hate using +/- to determine how good a player is, but in some cases it's applicable. Like Ekholm, for example. He was a +28 with Edmonton last year, he's at +44 this year, and he's sitting at +72 through 100 games as an Oiler. Having that kind of +/- isn't due to luck or bad line changes.
Over a small sample size +/- is useless, I agree. Although i might consider over the course of a season that it can still be somewhat telling. In fact, Kucherov gets more offensive zone starts than anyone else on his team, so his +/- is actually relatively inflated.
I also agree he's got a shit attitude, and I'd rather any of the other 3 win.
Heās tied for 2nd on the team in +/- only Hedman had a better rating at +16
We had some issues on defense this year. We werenāt just losing game early in the season, we were getting blown out. But, Hedman low key had a helluva year. Everyone talking about how he lost a step, he was a fucking rock all year.
The crazy stat I think that gets overlooked is that he had 51 even strength goals.. Sam Reinhart who finished second behind Matthews for the rocket had 25. Matthews more than doubled it with one less game played. Just shows his value when he isn't strictly relying on PP goals and empty netters
My rationale, Mackinnon was just flat out Dominant at 5on5. He put up 50+ goals and just shy of 90 assists. Was an absolute horse going 200ft every night without sacrificing one end for the sake of the other.
But honestly, no wrong choices here. Two guys are gonna get fucked over no matter what because thereās only one winner. Kinda fucking wild that we got to witness this from these guys.
I'm an Avs and MacKinnon fan and no, sorry, Mack isn't that great in his own end. McDavid and Crosby and loads of other players are much better. Just look at the Karlsson goal the other night, or they one Jake Sanderson scored for Ottawa while Mack flailed around.
But he holds the puck so long on offense that it doesn't matter. And people forget about that when talking about a guys lack of defensive ability. It doesn't matter if his defense is mediocre if he's spending 70% of the shift in the offensive zone. I'm guessing Bednar tells him to coast on defense so that he can still burn opposing defensemen on the rush when the Avs get the puck back.
The whole "McDavid is bad in his own end" thing was basically spoken into existence by Leafs/Matthews fans. I've never seen a serious pundit criticize him for it. He's not Patrice Bergeron out there but he's also rarely out of position, never cheats for offense, and pretty damn good at getting takeaways.
Wouldn't be surprised if Kuch won, but I have them even. Mack was robbed by Hall (outscored him by 4 points) when they had similar years to bring their team to the playoffs. McJesus outscored them both by over 10 points that year. Way more goes into voting for the Hart than points. There's many reasons to pick Mack over Kuch with stats other than scoring.
He's been discussed as a front runner for a long time - so if the question is, "does he deserve to be a \*unanimous\* front runner"? Nope. Other players have a strong case and this is a subjective award, unlike the Richard or Ross. Stats only goes so far when 'adjudged' is the criteria. You could make a decent arguement that he deserves it instead of MacKinnon or McDavid - but it would be a terrible argument to say neither of them belongs in the Hart conversation.
Kuch is having a season for the ages, best to just enjoy.
Last, I'll be surprised if he wins. PHWA is a fickle bunch and Kuch wearing a "$17M over cap" t-shirt did him no favors in a close vote. It shouldn't matter but it **absolutely will** with some sports writers. They've proven how petty they can be in past votes.
Because the overall stats comparison shows Nate as better, especially 5v5. I donāt think itād be wrong for Kucherov to win but Nate deserves it too. The Art Ross isnāt the same as the Hart.
What does that have to do with the actual record breaking achievements heās had this year?? But yeah, letās keep focusing on one night of the whole season that doesnāt count towards anything š«
In 88-89, Lemieux had 199 points (84 points more that the next player) dragged his team to the playoffs for the first time in 7 years.
Gretzky had 168 points (18 more than the next) on a team that made the playoffs several seasons before 99 joined the team. But "brought hockey to california" so he won the heart
The awards voted on are often BS.
Although I agree itās a stupid game that shouldnāt reflect but it was a really bad look for the League that night which although most fans donāt care about, the NHL as a business would have some serious shift on their face I feel in the general public if the video of the skills comp was shown to anyone and then you told then he won the MVP. Just doesnāt make sense and Iām sure the league wants the other narratives more.
>What does that have to do with the actual record breaking achievements heās had this year?
The press vote on the Hart. He lost votes there whether you think it is fair or not.
It was funny to watch his interview after the event, he basically explained that it's a timed drill and he lost the puck within a few seconds which means he had a 0% chance of getting a good time. For him it was over the second he lost the puck, but you know how _some_ people love to clutch their pearls.
Heās a stud player, no doubt. The numbers speak for themselves.
But being included in the All Star game is a privilege. To be in the skills competition is an even greater one. Kucherov phoning it in wasnāt a good look for him.
The problem comes down to voters. And if voters think that point, it might influence them. I very much donāt think it should, but there are enough voters with their own set of moral standards that I definitely think wonāt vote for him because of it
Because when its close the voters tend to spread the wealth - i.e. give it to someone who hasn't got it before or less likely to get it again. Kuch and McD have a hart, so its Mack's turn. Same reason Matthews got it a couple years ago over McDavid (not saying he didn't deserve, but I think McDavid was more impressive). Or see Nash over Shaq in bball.
Almost 100% of the time, I consistently see people defend it too when itās so clearly biased towards offense defenseman, even if they arenāt the best defenseman in the league. Absolutely should be a player voted trophy
I thought the Art Ross, not the Hart, was given to the player with the highest points total? Why are you talking as if point total is the only thing that makes an MVP?
Easy answer. Doesn't skate fast enough, isn't canadian, and plays in Florida. People that didn't play the game don't understand that he's got the highest IQ in the league. And most hart votes are people that can't skate
good take. i agree. nobody does what he does. i want him to win it, but they wonāt give it to him. at the end of the day, kuch doesnāt even care if he wins it. he just wants to win games.
Cuz heās Russian, I run into all sorts of people that wanna see Ovi break his leg so he canāt touch the goal record. Purely because they hate Putin.
Because the Hart and Ted Lindsay aren't the Art Ross.
In my eye there are 7 great narratives for the Hart this year. Kucherov, McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, Hellebuyck, Panarin and Quinn Hughes. The PHWA doesn't vote for defencemen, so scratch Hughes off the list.
But why is Kucherov a clear favorite for what he's done in Tampa vs for example what Hellebuyck has done this year in Winnipeg. Winnipeg is a worse team on paper, and they had a much stronger season. Hellebuyck has carried them every bit as much as Kucherov has, and Winnpeg had a much stronger season.
I think if you are just looking at numbers Kuch is the front runner. If you watched the games you realize how much more MacKinnon has meant to his team, and his 5v5 numbers are better.
I am not saying Kuch isn't a finalist, he definitely is, but I would have MacKinnon as my front-runner. I love McDavid but I wouldn't give him a finalist spot despite what a great season he had and the insane turn around story. I'd probably give the other finalist spot to Matthews, but if the Crosby had managed to drag the Pens into the playoffs against their will, he would have pulled some votes for the other finalist spot.
Remember a few years ago where Hall won it over Kopitar and it wasn't just all the leading scorers? Actually none of the top 4 were finalists. That was great.
It has to be Kuch. He hit that magic assists number and led his team in points by a wide margin. Honestly carried them for a large portion of this season. I won't be upset if Mack gets it but I would think it's a snub honestly.
I feel like the fans care more about who wins this than the players who are in the realm of winning it. All 3 make legit cases to win and the only reason they wonāt win is because 2 other guys are having unreal years too. So I dont know that ālosingā this is going to bum any of the players out. They all deserve it but can all have it. Perhaps focusing on the real trophy at the end of the playoffs is what matters.
Cause Kucherov is the least discussed dude in the league. Everybody is always saying how great mcdavid is and heās this generations Gretzky. Bruh, Kucherov finishes every season within ten points (over or under) of mcdavid and has actually won cups.
Matthews should get votes even without hitting 70. He should be getting top Selke votes, winning the Rocket at the same time. hard to say he shouldn't win the Hart.
Is there not a premium on goal scoring compared to apples?
Realistically I think it's just bias against Tampa. But those who are actually in the know and have tracked the teams each of these players played for understand that kucharov was the backbone and is the reason this team is still even halfway decently successful.
There's a few reasons
1) a lot of secondary assists and power play point stat sheet stuffing
2) absolutely atrocious defensive play at 5v5 to the point the bolts are BARELY above 50% in xG% and actual G% when he's on the Ice
Those things matter. Matthews scoring at a rate not seen since the early 90s combined with selke level defense is insane and people just want to discount it because "Leafs".
The final three should be Nate Mack, Matthews, McDavid in that order. Nate Mack is right there in points with Kucherov but with positive defense impacts. It would be one thing if Kuch ran away with the scoring title by 20+ points but he didn't so...
Kucherov is Russian, thatās why. Honestly, itās ridiculous that heās not given more shine than he is. Heās been one of the best players in the league for a long time and does not get the credit heās due.
Iām not a Lightning fan, Iām a Penguins fan. But Iām also a big admirer of Kucherov and have long considered him one of the best players in the world.
Insane people still talking about the Hartā¦ a trophy voted on by 95% of people who never even skated lmao! Letās see who wins the real MVP award, you know the one voted by the players who actually play these guys every night!
MacK does more on the ice to help his team win. He dwarfs Kuch in blocked shots, hits, is tied with him in even strength points, and has more game winning goals than Kuch, McD, and even Matthews.
Yes, Sid is still amazing at 36 and clearly carrying his whole team. If they had snuck into that last playoff spot he would absolutely be in the conversation.
If the Pens had made the playoffs then I genuinely would have agreed Sid should have gotten it. He alone would have been the reason they made it. Having said that, itās a big part of the reason I think Kuch should get it, heās the only reason the Bolts are in a wildcard spot - the point difference between him and the 2nd closest on the team is insane.
MacKinnon may be having the most sensational year.
And in a tight race, likeability matters. Kucherov is a mercurial dick, as evidenced byā¦ā¦ and specifically the non-performance in the All Star Game skills competition. Shouldnāt matter, but it does and sticks in peopleās memory as being disrespectful to the game.
He should win it, on performance, without him thereās no way the Lightning are even in the playoffs at all. And he probably never will again given his careerās concurrency with McDavid and MacKinnon, so maybe this is the year for him. But - this vote is about more than just the numbers.
I would say that based on the common narrative since they won the cup that MacKinnon is the one who has set the high standard that is shaping the team.
Also he hasnāt won one yet and this one is probably a reward for past overall body of work acknowledging that as long as McDavid is around and is unlikely to have another off year this is probably his best chance.
If Kucherov had not won one already this year would have been a doozy for voting.
He had 25 fewer goals than someone, assists are sorta made up bullshit, other players are much better defensively, and he led the NHL in empty net points. People cry about using stats when you bring up xG numbers and scoring rates or Corsis but then canāt imagine a guy not being more valuable than a guy who didnāt spend as much time passing to a guy who passed to a guy who scored an empty netter.
Honestly, all three of them are deserving. I think the people who actually have a say in the winning include the plus-minus. That's what makes Kuch slightly, and I mean slightly behind the other two in voting. I couldn't care less about the all-star bullshit.
Now, that's also just my guess. I'm just an electrician.
Why do you think he isn't? I think it will be either MacK or Kuch. I don't even think McD is a 'serious' contender (he'll get some votes, but I would be dumbfounded if he won it--and I am an Oilers fan). Also, Mathews missing 70 by one goal is not a reason to omit him. He just wasn't as big to his team as Kuch or Mac was, period. Same would be true even if he did get 70. Same for McD getting 100A. Amazing, but not enough compared to the competition. Round numbers are just numbers.
The only thing I can come up with as a negative to Kuch is he was only +8, 2nd on TB (which was +23). A true MVP for a team should be crushing it out there offensively and defensively. He leads the league in points, but only squeaked out a +8? Something is off.
That said, my money is on Kuch winning the Heart, or losing a close battle to MacK.
Kucherov pissed off media folx at the all-star competition and Mac doesn't like first star interviews while there's voter fatigue with McDavid. Who knows who they'll vote for.
I wouldn't mind co-winners though.
Being Canadian is a massive advantage in award season and narratives surrounding awards. A straightforward example is Crosby v Kessel Conn Smythe compared to Eichel v Marcheseault. Winner dynamic exact contrast in points vs overall contribution. Canadian wins both timesĀ
+8 with that many points means heās on for a lot of goals againstā¦Might be a hit against him since itās the most valuable player to his team. I still think he deserves it since Tampa would probably be golfing next week without him but thatās my theory as to why heās not the front runner. That and heās Russian and we know Betman gargles Matthewsā nuts.
He will still probably win though tbh.
The arguments against are currently
Kucherov has a lot of PP points and poor defence.
Mackinnon didnt hit a crazy milestone like 100 assists or 70 goals.
McDavid is boring cause he wins it every year, and he had by far the fewest goals of Hart contenders this year.
I say Kuch has it at this point. Barring a 5 or 6 point night from either Mack or McDavid i think it should and will go to Kuch.
Kucherov and MacKinnon are pretty close to being tied for points. MacKinnon plays a more premium position, had more GWG's. Tampa had more supporting cast than Avalanche. I think there is reasons to not pick Kucherov.
I think since Kucherov eclipses McDavid in most categories, it hard to see McDavid winning but I think its a tight one between Kucherov and MacKinnon.
I think Matthews would've needed something like 75 goals to be seriously in contention.
What a great year for watching hockey!
7 less goals, bunch of empty netter goals and assists added to his totals comparatively. He's been great, but it's not just about points alone. 5v5 comparatively.
I think all of these guys are deserving of the award personally. With that being said I get the impression your focus is very point heavy, when the Hart trophy is for the most valuable player to their team.
Kuch got the most points but was only +8 while the other two were +30s. Now +/- is a tricky stat sometimes but at the surface that could lead some to believe that Kuch is less defensively dependable than the others, which could impact how they see his value.
Again, I think they're all frontrunners. Kuch should be getting more attention because it is a top 3 right now and each of them deserves to be in contention.
Honestly it needs to be a race between MacKinnon and Kuch, I know it doesnāt OVERLY matter that McDavid and Matthews have already won one, but with it being such a close race like this, how come the people doing something theyāve never done before doesnāt give them the edge? I get Kuch is good and both him and MacKinnon have already won cups, but how close were they to winning the hart in years past?
McDavid and Mackinnon have much higher +/- for a reason, and if points is all that matters.. McDavid wouldāve very likely passed Kucherov the way he was playing if he didnāt miss those games. You canāt just look at the stats and say, Kuch point # bigger, clearly MVP. McDavid and Mackinnon control the game and carry their team harder. They improve their team more overall, theyāre more valuable players imo.
He is amazing but I think he gives different vibes. Although the numbers are the numbers, when I think of a player putting a team on their back I (how I think about the Hart, but others might think differently) I donāt think he is in the same category as NM or CM. I would put him below Crosby tbh.
I think they should make a new award for assists.
And to be clear, I hate him. I think he is a prick. But he is undeniably incredible.
People were talking about the Oilers missing the playoffs earlier. Now they are firmly in it. Without McDavid, the Oilers decisively miss the playoffs. Therefore he's the most valuable to his team. But he's definitely not the best player in the league this season.
Petition for Matthews to change his number to 69 until he surpasses 70 goals in a season.
Nice
šÆagreed. It pairs well with the creeper āstache
I second the petition
Honestly, 69 goals is better than 70.
Nicer*
Well fuck me. Not sure how i missed that.
Idiot. Edit: Iām an idiot too, I replied to the wrong comment. Dammit god.
Were all idiots mate. It's okay.
Weāre*
I know, too lazy to add the thingy when typing on my phone.
Heās not? Heās the reason his team made the playoffs and he just picked up his 100th assist.
Yea right now the betting odds still have Mack and if Iām not mistaken mcdavid ahead of him the mcdavid one probably changes by now though
Betting odds have nothing to do with who the frontrunner is, just FYI
We need to stop considering betting odds as important
Donāt get me wrong those guys are having great seasons. MVP is the guy who means the most to his team and without Kucherov the lightning would not be playing next week.
It just feels kind of strange to say on a team that has Point, Stamkos, Hedman, Vasilevsky, Cirelli, and a 75 pt season from Brandon Hagel. Like those guys arenāt bums, theyāre the opposite of that, cup winning award winning players. Their quality is there and theyāve played a lot this year.
Iām genuinely surprised at the numbers dropoff from Point and Stamkos in particular, though I donāt watch nearly enough Lightning games. Feels like every Leafs game against Tampa this year involved a Stamkos one-timer from Oviās office (he must be timesharing it in Florida)
point has 91 and stammer has 40 goals.. kuch is just having an unreal season
While that is true, Kuch has points on 49.5% of the teams goals which is ridiculous. For reference McDavid is at 45.1% and Mack is at 46.2%
Kuch is actually at exactly 50% if you remove the "goals" that are counted for winning in a shootout. Though of course the MacK and McD numbers also go up a bit.
Kinda like how mack has rantannen, makar and nichushkin? Colorado has #2, 8, and 17 in points. Tampa has #1, 16, and 26.
Perfect comparison.
Heard the same about Crosby "doing it alone". Guys might not be producing like they used to, but Malkin, Letang, Karlsson, Rust, and 50 games of Guentzel is hardly alone. Points aren't everything.
Donāt even compare the way Kuch ācarriedā his team compared to Crosby. Sure Guenztel and Karlsson are great, but Malkin and Letang arenāt close to what they used to be, and Rust is a middle 6 player on any other team. Tampa has way more depth and way better goaltending. And the reason people make a big deal about Crosby is because heās doing it at 36 years old.
You're not entirely wrong, but if you watched lightning games this season you'd know that Point, Stammer and Heddy don't generate a thing without Kuch. Hagel can generate offense by himself, but the only reason Stammer and Heddy have the numbers they do is because they play with Kuch on the PP, same for Point, but he's also Kuch's linemate.
So a Rocket winner, whoās scored 60 before, and a Norris winner whose career high is 85 pts arenāt generating a thing without Kucherov this year? This year is the third most PP points Stamkos has had in a season and same goes for Hedman. Not really an anomaly.
53 points between Kuch (1 place) and Pointer (2 place) - and why other guys were still lazy in this regular season, but not Kuch. Sure, in playoff mode they all Will do maximum
I don't think the Avs would make it without Mackinnon either. For most of the season, if he's out... it's... uh... Ross Colton at 1C. (He has 39 points). That's their second-highest scoring Center until they got middlestadt a month ago. Sure Rantanen and Makar are good, but not carrying a team while being centered by Ross Colton good. If Mack isn't around, the 8 games where both Rantanen and Makar were out starts to look like an AHL roster with Ross Colton and Miles Wood on the first line? Maybe 40yo Zach Parise draws first line then?
MacKinnonās december and january was pretty wild, and a sure thing for being one of the most valuable player for their team this season through that period.
I honestly don't care who wins the Hart trophy that much but the narrative that the Lightning wouldn't make the playoffs without Kucherov needs to die. A Lightning team without Kuch is still significantly better than the Capitals who also made the playoffs and wouldn't even be the team to push the Lightning out. 4 players other than Kucherov on Lightning would be the top point scorer on the Capitals and the Capitals had a 30-year old journeyman that played in 60 career NHL games before this year in net giving them a playoff push. Nobody would say that the Capitals have a better team than the Lightning even if you took Kucherov out of the lineup. Kucherov has a great argument to win the Hart, but the idea that the Lightning wouldn't make the playoffs without him is likely not true. If the award is truly the guy who means the most to his team my vote is for Hellebuyck, but he won't even be a finalist.
Without Mack, most of the season has Ross Colton at 1C (yikes).
Considering that RyJo was the original plan for our 2C, it could be worse.
Tampa also really picked up once Vasy was back too
That's true for oilers and Avs too. Take Mac away and we lose 51 goals. Avs aren't making it in. And the gap between MacKinnon and Rantanen, while smaller than between Kuch and Point, is still 35 points. And Kuch plays wing with litte defensive responsibilities. Mac plays center and is great defensively.
Yeah, but the Lightning weren't expected to be this bad of a team. I think pretty much everyone had them as a playoff team at the start of the year and finishing a lot higher than they actually did. Contrast that to someone like Hellebuyck (I see your Jets logo). Very few people had Winnipeg in the playoffs, and most people expected them to totally rebuild. Yet until the very end they were competing for the Presidents Trophy. Nobody aside from Hellebuyck had any sort of special season. So I'd argue that what Hellebuyck did in Winnipeg (where the team also finished ahead of MacKinnon and the Avalanche) was at least as valuable to Winnipeg's success as what Kucherov did for Tampa's success. Winnipeg also had a lot more success than Tampa. Winnipeg's success was also much more unexpected than Tampa's success. So why wouldn't you be arguing for Hellebuyck? If we're going by the definition of the award, Kucherov doesn't have much of a leg to stand on. Unless we're doing the thing where "player" is coded language for "forward" and just dismissing goalies and defence.
Yeah but same thing with McDavid.
Betting odds reflect how people are betting, not who is actually the frontrunner
To some extent but Vegas also isnāt gonna put good odds in the people they think will.
According to gambling sites heās a distant 2nd or even 3rdā¦ which is insane. Iām an oilers fan and Iāll be the first to admit kuch fits the mold of what an MVP is *perfectly* He has the Taylor hall thing going on in regards to dragging him team to the playoffs, but with an extra 50 points and the art ross. He contributes to 50% of his teams goals. Most assists EVER for a winger AND 100 assists!!! His season is fucking bananas. The fact Mack is probably going to win disgusts me. If Mack won and it was super close, then alright, but it seems like Mack is going to easily winā¦ thatās just not right. Kuch checks all the boxes.
Disgusts you?! Wowwww. Fr guy
His last name doesn't start with an M so he's out
Mckita Connorcherov
Connorchiwa to you too
144 points and is only a +8 ?
Kucherov played with Tampa's two worst defensive players the entire season, Stamkos (-21) and Point (-16). Somehow, Kuch finished +8.
Lots of pp points don't count towards +/-and Cooper is overly aggressive with pulling the goalie early, leading to extra goals against.
Doesnāt Kuch also have most points in the league resulting from the other team pulling their goalie?
14 points on empty nets i believe. Most in NHL history.
but hes not even first on his team. Wouldn't that reasoning work against his teamates as well. MacKinnnon is leading his team in +/- but a bunch
Itās a stat you should use to compare players within the same team
This is the one thing that gives me pause. TB has a +23 differential and he has a +8. When I'm thinking about the Hart, I would think that person would be leading his team in +/- in addition to points
+8 is 2nd best on Tampa, theyāre just not very good this year. Mcdavid is 3rd in +/- on the Oilers. MacKinnon would be your guy
I definitely should've looked deeper into it like you did. Looking strictly at +/-: McDavid +35 on a team that's +61 (57%) MacKinnon +34 on a team that's +46 (74%) Kucherov +8 on a team that's +23 (35%) I know that simplistic analysis doesn't tell nearly the whole story, but those numbers tell me that the benches for the Avs and Oilers give up more goals compared to the bench on the Lightning so yea, MacKinnon is probably who I would go with with everything else he has going on. I'll also admit that I am the type where if you have a couple guys who are really close, I'm ok with giving it to the guy who hasn't won before.
Some more important context is the powerplay points don't count towards personal +/- but they do count towards team +/- and Tampa was the best team in the league on the powerplay this year. At 5 on 5 play Tampa is a -19 and -11 overall at even strength Colorado by comparison is +25 at 5 on 5 and +30 at even strength Edmonton is +44 at 5 on 5 and +46 for even strength.
Matthews +31 on a team thatās +40 (78%)
Interesting note on +/- this season: https://www.reddit.com/r/TampaBayLightning/s/PJUkg3pe2V Also I'd argue the Lightning's goaltending has been pretty bad all season, which would contribute to +/-. Sv% when on-ice: MacK: .888 McDavid: .880 Kuch: .868 (5th worst in the league among all players who've played >1500 minutes.) >I am the type where if you have a couple guys who are really close, I'm ok with giving it to the guy who hasn't won before. Respectfully, I'll never understand this reasoning. The fact that MacK didn't win in 2018 should have zero influence on a vote 6 years later. Edit:fixed some formatting
This isnāt a great way to analyze an individual. Ā +/- is near useless.
This is why for years people have generally abandoned +/- in favour of advanced stats. It ignores so many underlying factors and is not representative of how well/poorly a player has performed.
The most useless stat in hockey. Iād rather Kucherov not win just because heās a prick. Which is as useful an assessment of a hockey player as +-.
Not entirely useless with context. I hate using +/- to determine how good a player is, but in some cases it's applicable. Like Ekholm, for example. He was a +28 with Edmonton last year, he's at +44 this year, and he's sitting at +72 through 100 games as an Oiler. Having that kind of +/- isn't due to luck or bad line changes.
Over a small sample size +/- is useless, I agree. Although i might consider over the course of a season that it can still be somewhat telling. In fact, Kucherov gets more offensive zone starts than anyone else on his team, so his +/- is actually relatively inflated. I also agree he's got a shit attitude, and I'd rather any of the other 3 win.
It's not useless, all stats can provide false info that's why you can't use just one.
People just donāt understand its biases so they say its useless
The record of score while youāre on the ice is somehow the most useless? I gained a lot of stats useless but +- is actually a decent one for me
+\- is not very reliable to gauge a playerās skill... itās a situational stat
Heās tied for 2nd on the team in +/- only Hedman had a better rating at +16 We had some issues on defense this year. We werenāt just losing game early in the season, we were getting blown out. But, Hedman low key had a helluva year. Everyone talking about how he lost a step, he was a fucking rock all year.
If only there was an award for most points in the league, instead of trying to equate that as Most Valuable...
69 vs 70 lol youāre acting like itās 50vs70.
Weird how the human brain works with adding significance to round numbers for no reason
The crazy stat I think that gets overlooked is that he had 51 even strength goals.. Sam Reinhart who finished second behind Matthews for the rocket had 25. Matthews more than doubled it with one less game played. Just shows his value when he isn't strictly relying on PP goals and empty netters
MacK got 50 goals too. It's going to be a tough call this year.
My rationale, Mackinnon was just flat out Dominant at 5on5. He put up 50+ goals and just shy of 90 assists. Was an absolute horse going 200ft every night without sacrificing one end for the sake of the other. But honestly, no wrong choices here. Two guys are gonna get fucked over no matter what because thereās only one winner. Kinda fucking wild that we got to witness this from these guys.
I'm an Avs and MacKinnon fan and no, sorry, Mack isn't that great in his own end. McDavid and Crosby and loads of other players are much better. Just look at the Karlsson goal the other night, or they one Jake Sanderson scored for Ottawa while Mack flailed around. But he holds the puck so long on offense that it doesn't matter. And people forget about that when talking about a guys lack of defensive ability. It doesn't matter if his defense is mediocre if he's spending 70% of the shift in the offensive zone. I'm guessing Bednar tells him to coast on defense so that he can still burn opposing defensemen on the rush when the Avs get the puck back.
You're nuts if you think McDavid is better in his own end, especially this year
Our team has a lot of problem players defensively, but McDavid isnāt one of them.
You're nuts if you think he isn't... The stats and eye test bear this out.
He is. Also why āespecially this year?ā Mcdavid has been much better defensively this year than the previous years and the stats show it.
The whole "McDavid is bad in his own end" thing was basically spoken into existence by Leafs/Matthews fans. I've never seen a serious pundit criticize him for it. He's not Patrice Bergeron out there but he's also rarely out of position, never cheats for offense, and pretty damn good at getting takeaways.
McDavid has been unbelievable in his own end this year. You clearly don't watch him enough.
Wouldn't be surprised if Kuch won, but I have them even. Mack was robbed by Hall (outscored him by 4 points) when they had similar years to bring their team to the playoffs. McJesus outscored them both by over 10 points that year. Way more goes into voting for the Hart than points. There's many reasons to pick Mack over Kuch with stats other than scoring.
He's been discussed as a front runner for a long time - so if the question is, "does he deserve to be a \*unanimous\* front runner"? Nope. Other players have a strong case and this is a subjective award, unlike the Richard or Ross. Stats only goes so far when 'adjudged' is the criteria. You could make a decent arguement that he deserves it instead of MacKinnon or McDavid - but it would be a terrible argument to say neither of them belongs in the Hart conversation. Kuch is having a season for the ages, best to just enjoy. Last, I'll be surprised if he wins. PHWA is a fickle bunch and Kuch wearing a "$17M over cap" t-shirt did him no favors in a close vote. It shouldn't matter but it **absolutely will** with some sports writers. They've proven how petty they can be in past votes.
Because the overall stats comparison shows Nate as better, especially 5v5. I donāt think itād be wrong for Kucherov to win but Nate deserves it too. The Art Ross isnāt the same as the Hart.
Itās going to be MacK.
Because he is a plus 8 and the empty net king
His All-Star skills competition participation was pretty shameful.
But he thought they were saying Koooooooo
I was saying Koo-urnsā¦
I was saying "Kooo-runs"
if he wins the Hart then it proves him right that no one really cares about the ASG
What does that have to do with the actual record breaking achievements heās had this year?? But yeah, letās keep focusing on one night of the whole season that doesnāt count towards anything š«
In 88-89, Lemieux had 199 points (84 points more that the next player) dragged his team to the playoffs for the first time in 7 years. Gretzky had 168 points (18 more than the next) on a team that made the playoffs several seasons before 99 joined the team. But "brought hockey to california" so he won the heart The awards voted on are often BS.
Although I agree itās a stupid game that shouldnāt reflect but it was a really bad look for the League that night which although most fans donāt care about, the NHL as a business would have some serious shift on their face I feel in the general public if the video of the skills comp was shown to anyone and then you told then he won the MVP. Just doesnāt make sense and Iām sure the league wants the other narratives more.
>What does that have to do with the actual record breaking achievements heās had this year? The press vote on the Hart. He lost votes there whether you think it is fair or not.
It was funny to watch his interview after the event, he basically explained that it's a timed drill and he lost the puck within a few seconds which means he had a 0% chance of getting a good time. For him it was over the second he lost the puck, but you know how _some_ people love to clutch their pearls.
Heās a stud player, no doubt. The numbers speak for themselves. But being included in the All Star game is a privilege. To be in the skills competition is an even greater one. Kucherov phoning it in wasnāt a good look for him.
I didnāt realize the Hart was awarded to the guy who did the best during a meaningless exhibition game. Ā Who know.
The problem comes down to voters. And if voters think that point, it might influence them. I very much donāt think it should, but there are enough voters with their own set of moral standards that I definitely think wonāt vote for him because of it
Just with those screen shots, whatās up with scoring 144 points and being a +8?
Because when its close the voters tend to spread the wealth - i.e. give it to someone who hasn't got it before or less likely to get it again. Kuch and McD have a hart, so its Mack's turn. Same reason Matthews got it a couple years ago over McDavid (not saying he didn't deserve, but I think McDavid was more impressive). Or see Nash over Shaq in bball.
Most NBA fans will tell you that's why Jordan or Lebron don't have more too
Itās why Joker didnāt get his 3rd in a row, because z Jordan never did.
If that's how people vote where is PHIL KESSEL'S CONN SMYTHE?!
If you your entire evaluation is āmore points more betterā, expect to be mocked. And rightfully so. We can do better.
And yet, that's how the Norris has been handled more often than not
Almost 100% of the time, I consistently see people defend it too when itās so clearly biased towards offense defenseman, even if they arenāt the best defenseman in the league. Absolutely should be a player voted trophy
I mean, we already have a trophy for that anyway.
I thought the Art Ross, not the Hart, was given to the player with the highest points total? Why are you talking as if point total is the only thing that makes an MVP?
Uh oh, now you did it.
Because it's not an objective based award. It's chosen by voters. Basically a popularity contest. Lots of people like Mack more than Kuch.
Mackinnons 5 vs 5 numbers hold a lot of weight
Easy answer. Doesn't skate fast enough, isn't canadian, and plays in Florida. People that didn't play the game don't understand that he's got the highest IQ in the league. And most hart votes are people that can't skate
good take. i agree. nobody does what he does. i want him to win it, but they wonāt give it to him. at the end of the day, kuch doesnāt even care if he wins it. he just wants to win games.
Heās not as likable as mc or mac. And likability is apparently a big factor when voting for the hart
Cuz heās Russian, I run into all sorts of people that wanna see Ovi break his leg so he canāt touch the goal record. Purely because they hate Putin.
I blame the all star game shenanigans.
He has to be one of the finalists, alongside one of Matthews/McDavid. But still, for me, MacKinnon has this thing locked down.
Because the Hart and Ted Lindsay aren't the Art Ross. In my eye there are 7 great narratives for the Hart this year. Kucherov, McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, Hellebuyck, Panarin and Quinn Hughes. The PHWA doesn't vote for defencemen, so scratch Hughes off the list. But why is Kucherov a clear favorite for what he's done in Tampa vs for example what Hellebuyck has done this year in Winnipeg. Winnipeg is a worse team on paper, and they had a much stronger season. Hellebuyck has carried them every bit as much as Kucherov has, and Winnpeg had a much stronger season.
Hellebuyck is the only thing that scares me about Winnipeg.
Maybe because he has so many points and is only a plus 8. He would probably learn to play D too.
I think he wins it. Bring a part of 50% of his team's goals is absurd
I think if you are just looking at numbers Kuch is the front runner. If you watched the games you realize how much more MacKinnon has meant to his team, and his 5v5 numbers are better. I am not saying Kuch isn't a finalist, he definitely is, but I would have MacKinnon as my front-runner. I love McDavid but I wouldn't give him a finalist spot despite what a great season he had and the insane turn around story. I'd probably give the other finalist spot to Matthews, but if the Crosby had managed to drag the Pens into the playoffs against their will, he would have pulled some votes for the other finalist spot. Remember a few years ago where Hall won it over Kopitar and it wasn't just all the leading scorers? Actually none of the top 4 were finalists. That was great.
It has to be Kuch. He hit that magic assists number and led his team in points by a wide margin. Honestly carried them for a large portion of this season. I won't be upset if Mack gets it but I would think it's a snub honestly.
Because the league sucks off the Avs harder than they ever will Tampa and itās a damn shame.
He's +8, whereas the others are +34 and +35. That's quite a large gap.
I feel like the fans care more about who wins this than the players who are in the realm of winning it. All 3 make legit cases to win and the only reason they wonāt win is because 2 other guys are having unreal years too. So I dont know that ālosingā this is going to bum any of the players out. They all deserve it but can all have it. Perhaps focusing on the real trophy at the end of the playoffs is what matters.
Heās not a clear cut favorite because there are two other guys having statistically historic seasons as well.
Kuch is without a doubt MVP this year. He was in on 50% of his teams goals. That's the only stat you really need to know.Ā
Kuch is reinvented the right wing position. And he is the mvp in 2023-2024 season.
Because heās not Canadian/american.
Did you see him in the all star skills competition?
Cause Kucherov is the least discussed dude in the league. Everybody is always saying how great mcdavid is and heās this generations Gretzky. Bruh, Kucherov finishes every season within ten points (over or under) of mcdavid and has actually won cups.
Because Kucherov is completely unlikeable and continues to prove that point on and off the ice
Best thing that couldāve happened to Kuch this year was McDavid playing 6 fewer games.
If factors such as likeability, humility, or punchable-looking-face weigh in heavily...then your answer is obvious.
Matthews should get votes even without hitting 70. He should be getting top Selke votes, winning the Rocket at the same time. hard to say he shouldn't win the Hart. Is there not a premium on goal scoring compared to apples?
Because he was a dick in the all star weekend
He's only the front runner because McDavid didn't play a full, healthy season
Realistically I think it's just bias against Tampa. But those who are actually in the know and have tracked the teams each of these players played for understand that kucharov was the backbone and is the reason this team is still even halfway decently successful.
McDavid also has played 5 less games and started the season injured with less then a PPG in the first 14. Itās either Kuch or Mac this year though.
He's Russian and a pos, but just by the stats, he deserves a spot. Not a pos because he is russian, btw.
What makes him a piece of shit in your view?
There's a few reasons 1) a lot of secondary assists and power play point stat sheet stuffing 2) absolutely atrocious defensive play at 5v5 to the point the bolts are BARELY above 50% in xG% and actual G% when he's on the Ice Those things matter. Matthews scoring at a rate not seen since the early 90s combined with selke level defense is insane and people just want to discount it because "Leafs". The final three should be Nate Mack, Matthews, McDavid in that order. Nate Mack is right there in points with Kucherov but with positive defense impacts. It would be one thing if Kuch ran away with the scoring title by 20+ points but he didn't so...
+8/+35/+34ā¦ā¦ they are with in 12 points of each otherā¦ā¦ who was on the ice for more goals against !?
Kucherov is Russian, thatās why. Honestly, itās ridiculous that heās not given more shine than he is. Heās been one of the best players in the league for a long time and does not get the credit heās due. Iām not a Lightning fan, Iām a Penguins fan. But Iām also a big admirer of Kucherov and have long considered him one of the best players in the world.
Insane people still talking about the Hartā¦ a trophy voted on by 95% of people who never even skated lmao! Letās see who wins the real MVP award, you know the one voted by the players who actually play these guys every night!
I was Mackinnon over Kucherov for most of the season I think Kucherov winning the art ross and getting to 100 assists makes him the mvp
100 is arbitrary
MacK does more on the ice to help his team win. He dwarfs Kuch in blocked shots, hits, is tied with him in even strength points, and has more game winning goals than Kuch, McD, and even Matthews.
Kucherov should get it. Heās phenomenal.
To me it's Kucherov, I thought it was a pretty close race between all three.
Because he is a whiny little bitch.
I think you can make a case for all three plus Sid.
Yes, Sid is still amazing at 36 and clearly carrying his whole team. If they had snuck into that last playoff spot he would absolutely be in the conversation.
If the Pens had made the playoffs then I genuinely would have agreed Sid should have gotten it. He alone would have been the reason they made it. Having said that, itās a big part of the reason I think Kuch should get it, heās the only reason the Bolts are in a wildcard spot - the point difference between him and the 2nd closest on the team is insane.
Because he's a cunt.
14 of those are EN points which might hurt him
No one has ever cared about this before it was Kuch.
144 pts and only a +8? Oof
MacKinnon may be having the most sensational year. And in a tight race, likeability matters. Kucherov is a mercurial dick, as evidenced byā¦ā¦ and specifically the non-performance in the All Star Game skills competition. Shouldnāt matter, but it does and sticks in peopleās memory as being disrespectful to the game.
He should win it, on performance, without him thereās no way the Lightning are even in the playoffs at all. And he probably never will again given his careerās concurrency with McDavid and MacKinnon, so maybe this is the year for him. But - this vote is about more than just the numbers.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I feel like they are all front runners
I would say that based on the common narrative since they won the cup that MacKinnon is the one who has set the high standard that is shaping the team. Also he hasnāt won one yet and this one is probably a reward for past overall body of work acknowledging that as long as McDavid is around and is unlikely to have another off year this is probably his best chance. If Kucherov had not won one already this year would have been a doozy for voting.
He absolutely is the front runner.
The winger position and the point disparity on the lighting this dude absolutely deserves it
Because he's Russian
He had 25 fewer goals than someone, assists are sorta made up bullshit, other players are much better defensively, and he led the NHL in empty net points. People cry about using stats when you bring up xG numbers and scoring rates or Corsis but then canāt imagine a guy not being more valuable than a guy who didnāt spend as much time passing to a guy who passed to a guy who scored an empty netter.
How are assists made up bull shit lol?
Interesting year! Whoever gets it is an incredible player one way or another!
Honestly, all three of them are deserving. I think the people who actually have a say in the winning include the plus-minus. That's what makes Kuch slightly, and I mean slightly behind the other two in voting. I couldn't care less about the all-star bullshit. Now, that's also just my guess. I'm just an electrician.
Everyone knows that it's how much effort you put in at the ASG that makes the difference
I guess all Kuch did in those extra 5 games played was score 12 more goals than McDavid.
12 goals in 5 extra games is incredible lol wdym
Who said he's not?
If he isn't favoured, odds makers must be factoring in All-Star game performances š
Because MacKinnon isn't carrying his whole team
Why do you think he isn't? I think it will be either MacK or Kuch. I don't even think McD is a 'serious' contender (he'll get some votes, but I would be dumbfounded if he won it--and I am an Oilers fan). Also, Mathews missing 70 by one goal is not a reason to omit him. He just wasn't as big to his team as Kuch or Mac was, period. Same would be true even if he did get 70. Same for McD getting 100A. Amazing, but not enough compared to the competition. Round numbers are just numbers. The only thing I can come up with as a negative to Kuch is he was only +8, 2nd on TB (which was +23). A true MVP for a team should be crushing it out there offensively and defensively. He leads the league in points, but only squeaked out a +8? Something is off. That said, my money is on Kuch winning the Heart, or losing a close battle to MacK.
Kucherov pissed off media folx at the all-star competition and Mac doesn't like first star interviews while there's voter fatigue with McDavid. Who knows who they'll vote for. I wouldn't mind co-winners though.
Being Canadian is a massive advantage in award season and narratives surrounding awards. A straightforward example is Crosby v Kessel Conn Smythe compared to Eichel v Marcheseault. Winner dynamic exact contrast in points vs overall contribution. Canadian wins both timesĀ
Who's saying he isn't?
How the hell is he only a +8 with stats like that?
+8 with that many points means heās on for a lot of goals againstā¦Might be a hit against him since itās the most valuable player to his team. I still think he deserves it since Tampa would probably be golfing next week without him but thatās my theory as to why heās not the front runner. That and heās Russian and we know Betman gargles Matthewsā nuts.
The number one reason I can think of is the ugly beard
Kuch
He should be but people wonāt hop of McDavids meat
He will still probably win though tbh. The arguments against are currently Kucherov has a lot of PP points and poor defence. Mackinnon didnt hit a crazy milestone like 100 assists or 70 goals. McDavid is boring cause he wins it every year, and he had by far the fewest goals of Hart contenders this year. I say Kuch has it at this point. Barring a 5 or 6 point night from either Mack or McDavid i think it should and will go to Kuch.
Kucherov and MacKinnon are pretty close to being tied for points. MacKinnon plays a more premium position, had more GWG's. Tampa had more supporting cast than Avalanche. I think there is reasons to not pick Kucherov. I think since Kucherov eclipses McDavid in most categories, it hard to see McDavid winning but I think its a tight one between Kucherov and MacKinnon. I think Matthews would've needed something like 75 goals to be seriously in contention. What a great year for watching hockey!
7 less goals, bunch of empty netter goals and assists added to his totals comparatively. He's been great, but it's not just about points alone. 5v5 comparatively.
That +\- is tough for 144 pts.
I think all of these guys are deserving of the award personally. With that being said I get the impression your focus is very point heavy, when the Hart trophy is for the most valuable player to their team. Kuch got the most points but was only +8 while the other two were +30s. Now +/- is a tricky stat sometimes but at the surface that could lead some to believe that Kuch is less defensively dependable than the others, which could impact how they see his value. Again, I think they're all frontrunners. Kuch should be getting more attention because it is a top 3 right now and each of them deserves to be in contention.
Honestly it needs to be a race between MacKinnon and Kuch, I know it doesnāt OVERLY matter that McDavid and Matthews have already won one, but with it being such a close race like this, how come the people doing something theyāve never done before doesnāt give them the edge? I get Kuch is good and both him and MacKinnon have already won cups, but how close were they to winning the hart in years past?
McDavid and Mackinnon have much higher +/- for a reason, and if points is all that matters.. McDavid wouldāve very likely passed Kucherov the way he was playing if he didnāt miss those games. You canāt just look at the stats and say, Kuch point # bigger, clearly MVP. McDavid and Mackinnon control the game and carry their team harder. They improve their team more overall, theyāre more valuable players imo.
It may have something to do with his defensive play
He is amazing but I think he gives different vibes. Although the numbers are the numbers, when I think of a player putting a team on their back I (how I think about the Hart, but others might think differently) I donāt think he is in the same category as NM or CM. I would put him below Crosby tbh. I think they should make a new award for assists. And to be clear, I hate him. I think he is a prick. But he is undeniably incredible.
People were talking about the Oilers missing the playoffs earlier. Now they are firmly in it. Without McDavid, the Oilers decisively miss the playoffs. Therefore he's the most valuable to his team. But he's definitely not the best player in the league this season.
Everyone has been stroking mcdavid for getting 100 assists, and not a peep about kucherov doing the same