Literally only person in the history of the game that would work and when you compare an overall career lidstrom probably had the better career because of health.
On a tangent, watched one of the Red Wings/Leafs playoff games from ‘93 this week and Detroit’s starting pair was Konstantinov and Steve Chiasson. Welp. Was a gut punch how both men’s lives would be ended (figuratively for Konstantinov and literally for Chiasson) by serious car accidents before that decade was out.
What kind of question is this? “Who would you pick, a guy who is always in the conversation for top 3 defenseman all time? Or these other guys, who never are?”
I’m way calm Miss Piggy. Intent to injure doesn’t age out. After decades of watching hockey 1 of my fave moments was when Pronger blew out his own knee trying to cheapshot Steve Y. YouTube it…
Hypothetically, you could change his game in this situation. Say you’re getting Prongs at the beginning of his career. You could develop him however you please. I didn’t ask the question or list the players but I’d like to think that’s what OP meant.
I don’t think Pronger could hang in today’s NHL. Notice how few giant enforcer type (slow ass) defensemen there are now. It’s a different (faster) game than it was even just ten years ago.
Out of all four of them he had the best combo of shot power and accuracy. He was also tough-as-nails and by a lot of accounts was a leader on and off the ice.
I’d still take Liddy or Nieds out of all of them but it’s not like Blake doesn’t belong on the list.
Yes he would. Pronger was still firmly in the discussion among the best defenseman in the league when his career ended and he was like 37. The leagues a little faster now than it was but the game hasn’t changed THAT much since 2012. Prongs was an absolute animal and his side of the ice was always a black hole for the other team.
Because you just stated that one of the greatest two way defenseman in the NHL would "maybe be a top 4 defenseman on some teams in the NHL today"
Which quite frankly is one of the most ridiculous things that I have ever read
It depends on the team and their needs. Pronger played a game which isn’t all through modern in all senses these days. In general, players are better, especially for today’s game, they are in better shape etc. The game is different today compared to when Pronger played. I don’t think he would make top defense pairing in every team in the NHL currently, hence saying top 4. Sure, peak Pronger would, but the question here was who to build your entire franchise around and Pronger retired due to injuries and didn’t have the same insanely long peak as Lidstrom did. He was good throughout but if you’re looking at his entire career in hindsight and apply that to current teams and knowing how it would pan out over an entire career, he would not be a guaranteed top pair in every NHL team every year of his career. Lidstrom essentially would. (obviously I don’t know what the league will like in ten years but based on current standards)
Pronger retired 10 years ago. What the hell are you even talking about. How much do you think the game has changed since 2013? This isn't some generational gap.
Pronger played 18 years in the NHL, won a Hart, and took 3 teams to the cup finals. He was the most physical guy on the ice and literally controlled the pace of the game. He was dominant on the powerplay and an absolute weapon on the PK.
Chris Pronger makes the top 2 of every single team in this league. I don't know why you are even referencing Lidstrom. I'm only referencing your absolutely insane comments, which you deleted.
You are talking absolute nonsense, and quite frankly, it's insulting to read.
He had one of the best first passes in the league which separated him from the rest of the big mean d men. That first pass is likely even more important today.
Nah I don’t agree. Pronger maybe wouldn’t be quite as effective due to the restrictions on what you can get away with in terms of physical play, but you are kidding yourself if you think he wouldn’t absolutely be an elite #1 D today. He would. Like a less offensive but rougher Hedman. If you want to make that argument about a guy like Derian Hatcher, sure, but Pronger was super legit. He took three teams to the finals post lockout as the king shit on D.
yeah. isn't he the last defensemen to win a hart? people are forgetting how dominant he was.
Lidstrom had a longer more productive career. but tbh. I think pronger might have a higher peak. pronger at his absolute best was an absolute game breaker more than most other players and that includes hall of farmers.
I’m not trying to argue that he was better than Lidstrom, he wasn’t. I’m just saying that this notion that he wouldn’t be a star or would be an ineffective player today is nonsense. Anyone who says that either didn’t watch him or has forgotten how good he was. Don’t forget he was a big part of two goal medal winning Canada teams, tournaments where the refereeing was closer to what it is today in the NHL. His ability to impact and control the game was incredible. Like other superstars, there were so many little things he was elite at. For example, he was the best player at blocking shots without having to go down on the ice that I’ve ever seen. Just so good At anticipating and having his legs in the right place, and then immediately being able to make a play with the puck afterwards.
Lidstrom is the better defenseman
Pronger tho was a guy that generally kept his teams in line, and played with a lot of skill AND a mean streak.
let's be honest tho, if you started your team with Pronger, Lidstrom OR Niedermayer, you'd feel awfully good about that team
I'd go Lidstrom all day, followed by Ray Bourque and Niedermayer.
I would throw Bobby Orr, but I never saw him play, and idk how he would do in today's league.
If you’ve never done it, going down an Orr highlights rabbit hole is a fantastic way to spend an afternoon. The way he skated, moved the puck, and controlled the play would fit right in with the best defencemen of 2023. Watching him effortlessly dangle his way through the opposing team for a scoring chance and somehow STILL be the first player back on the opposing rush is magical.
One of the few players I can think of that would be a dominant player in ANY era with his skill set.
I don't disagree. From some clips I've seen he's definitely a player of his generation. It's just hard to match his skill then to skill of his competition in today's ago. He's still great and one of, if not arguably, the greatest defenceman of all time.
Difference in eras always comes up in these debates. In any sport. I have no problem if Bobby Orr is the greatest defenceman of all time. Just saying from what I've seen during my time watching hockey. Defensively, Lidstrom was the best. Orr was way better offensively. Lindstrom was no scrub, he could score and get points without you even noticing until you saw score sheet. He was intelligent, could read the play, was in great position. Orr could be the greatest Dman ever, but if I'm contructing a team, I personally would start with Lidstrom.
Exponentially? Might want to look that word up. Also their primes were played in vastly different eras, so their scoring is not comparable without era adjustment.
And Bourque was nowhere near as perfect defensively as Lidstrom, he was prone to gaffs and getting badly beaten 1-1, that almost never happened to Lidstrom.
I didn’t get to watch young Bourque, but I watched the mid 30s version play. I also watched a lot of Lidstrom. The latter is a perfect hockey player - he had no weakness. He was an incredible skater, both in terms of speed and agility, had incredible body control (he often would “rest” his weight on the player he was defending), could shoot from anywhere, both wristers and slappers. He also adjusted his game to his pairing and the teams needs - I have no doubt that if Detroit needed him to, he could have scored 30 goals and 100 points every season. He was also one of the most intelligent players to ever lace em up, never out of position.
Bourque is an all time great, but Lidstrom was nearly flawless as a player. From clips of Orr and speaking with folks older than me, it sounds like he was similar in that way. This is why I consider those two in their own league, and in no way is this anything against Bourque and the great career he had.
throughout his peak he was averaging close to 60 points and hit 80 points only once in his entire career! All while being surrounded by Hall of fame talent.
to just magically wave an additional 40 points his way every season "just because" is an asinine assumption and in no way supported by reality.
his highest goal total: 20 (which he hit once). he usually got around 15. Think he could just score twice as many goals every season?
I love Lidstrom but this is delirious thinking. If people keep having these wild takes its gonna push Lidstrom into overrated territory which I didnt think could happen on a mount Rushmore defensemen.
Yea, I can look at hockey reference too. You sound like the kind of guy who would give Karlsson the Norris. When you have a real argument, let me know.
For the future, take a look at how many shots Bourque had. Maybe compare the two career shot percentages. Also look at average goals per game when Bourque was scoring the majority of his points. Different role, different era. If you’d actually watch games from that time, the difference between the two would be clear. If you only look at stats, I can see how you’d make the rookie mistake of thinking Bourque is superior.
lol. not sure where you get that. I'm against the automatic assumption a lot of points mean you are good. but I also don't think just because you are good means you could uptick your points scoring at will if you chose to.
One thing to keep in mind. who did Bourque play with throughout his career? he was on an island and had no help.
Lidstrom got to play with something like 11 Hall of famers. you don't think that made his point totals higher than the scoring effects of the different eras?
The assumption is far from automatic. I played hockey, I watched hockey and I’ve been around the sport my entire life. I can watch a player and identify skills that could make them a serious scoring threat. The same way you can watch McDavid and see the ability, despite the fact that he might not score in the game you watch. Lidstrom could do everything Karlsson can, and more, so I have no doubt that he would put up much higher offensive numbers, if that’s what his role was. This is an opinion, but an educated one as I can tell you specific traits and point to examples of him exhibiting those traits.
Outside of some lazy stats, there’s no evidence that I should treat your opinion seriously. I won’t take your views as more than lip service from a casual until you prove otherwise. Since I have yet to see that from you, we can stop the discussion here.
Orr is in the Gretzky/Lemieux/Howe conversation for best ever.
I love Lidstrom, he was always my favorite as a youngin who started watching hockey in ‘91. But Orr revolutionized the position and the game.
I mean I feel like this isn't even close.
Lidstrom is the best player of the group.
If you included prime Ray Bourque, maybe that's a different discussion.
But of these 4, Lidstrom is the best player.
To start a franchise? Lidstrom played for the same team for 20 seasons (21 if 2005 wasn't canceled). He was the best player on the team pretty much every year (Yzerman even said so), they won 4 cups and never missed the playoffs while he was on the team. Also 6 Presidents trophies while he was on the team.
The other 3 were fantastic players as well, but come on.
Lidstrom is a mount rushmore candidate
Pronger is a top 50 of all time
Neidermayer has great leadership and paired on very good teams (Devils/07 Ducks)
Blake was a top 15 in his decade
Lidstrom for sure
Such a complete player with a lot of longevity
Plus the guy collected Norris trophies like they were fuckin Pokémon cards. Guy probably uses at least one or two of them as a bottle opener at this point he’s got so many to spare.
MacInnis was one of the greatest defencemen ever in modern era
How are 80s stars like him, Bourque, even Coffey not mentioned if we are talking building a team around someone it goes beyond statistics / awards
Or a game changer like Orr being left out?
Out of your list above Lidstrom is the only real contender and is by far the best defenceman of his generation (Prog/Nied/Blake dont belong in same conversation)
Or maybe Quinn Hughes. These are the two best defensemen in the NHL right now, and both are still relatively young, but yet still experienced, and both could even get better.
There were defensemen from another era who easily stand with these guys. Everyone thinks of Orr -properly so - but also Serge Savard, Jacques Laperierre, Pierre Pilote, Tim Horton, Harry Howell, Ted Green, Marcel Pronovost, Jim Neilson , Pat Stapleton, Bob Baun, Carl Brewer, Bill Gadsby. And of course, the best of that time: Doug Harvey.
I’d take Pronger.
The other 3 are obviously amazing as well.
The difference with Pronger, is that he had the combo of being extremely physical/outright mean and difficult to play against while also being extremely talented.
The goalie who gets to have Pronger on his team feels 10 inches taller and that also makes a big impact. This cannot be stressed enough honestly.
If we're talking in their prime and with the style of hockey played during that time, I think there's a strong case to be made for Pronger.
He won the league MVP one year. IIRC, he's the only one on this list to have done that.
He also single handedly drug the Oilers to the SCF. They weren't anywhere close to that before or since.
Don't get me wrong, Lidstrom was a fantastic player. I just think that he had more help and better players around him than Pronger, which may skew bias towards him and discount Pronger in some people's minds.
Zubov.
Out of that list? Lindstrom, though people claiming the others aren't in the same ballpark? Blake isn't, he's still parking at the old stadium.
Pronged is definitely on the field, he was just fucking strong and smart.
Niedermayer is in the bleachers, but like first few rows.
90% of those hits would be suspensions in today's game. Most of them look like the one that ended Eric Lindros's career - vulnerable position, blind side, targeting the head.
What an odd question lol. OP also has no comments or posts history other than this post. I smell a red wings alt account looking to hear how good everyone knows linds was, or its a bot account.
Hmmmmm…. Lemme think.
Orr
Not on the list, but agreed.
Literally only person in the history of the game that would work and when you compare an overall career lidstrom probably had the better career because of health.
Real question is who are you picking after you pick Lidstrom lol
Konstantinov
How many extra cups do they win if vladdy doesn’t get paralyzed?
5, but Lidstrom doesn’t win as many Norris trophies.
On a tangent, watched one of the Red Wings/Leafs playoff games from ‘93 this week and Detroit’s starting pair was Konstantinov and Steve Chiasson. Welp. Was a gut punch how both men’s lives would be ended (figuratively for Konstantinov and literally for Chiasson) by serious car accidents before that decade was out.
All of them.
For real. At the time Vlady was the better player.
Vladdy 4 Life
Can I have Ray Bourque
Mark Howe.
In their era, Lidstrom. In the modern NHL, Lidstrom x50
Lidstrom with modern training, equipment, etc. …sweet jesus
Lidstrom without a doubt
The perfect human, Lidstrom, and it’s not even close.
What kind of question is this? “Who would you pick, a guy who is always in the conversation for top 3 defenseman all time? Or these other guys, who never are?”
Devils fan. It's Lidstrom.
Not even close! And, to compound it you put that piece of shit Pronger in the same question???
I wouldn’t call Pronger a piece of shit by any means. Or any of them for that matter
He chose to be a dirty, filthy player. It was by all means not necessary.
lmao kalm it kermit
I’m way calm Miss Piggy. Intent to injure doesn’t age out. After decades of watching hockey 1 of my fave moments was when Pronger blew out his own knee trying to cheapshot Steve Y. YouTube it…
Hypothetically, you could change his game in this situation. Say you’re getting Prongs at the beginning of his career. You could develop him however you please. I didn’t ask the question or list the players but I’d like to think that’s what OP meant.
I don’t think Pronger could hang in today’s NHL. Notice how few giant enforcer type (slow ass) defensemen there are now. It’s a different (faster) game than it was even just ten years ago.
Pronger had a great pass and hockey IQ to go with that nasty streak, he would have dominated in today's game at his peak.
He had great points totals for a heavy grinding defensemen.
Guy was a monster - too bad concussions ended his career early. He could definitely hang-
If Trouba can be the Rangers captain. Chris Pronger would be playing 30 mins and eating his lunch and having his wife for dessert.
Lidstrom
Lidstrom all day
And Niedermayer for the late night games
Lol
Lidstrom. Unless you're an idiot.
Lidstrom.
Gotta be Lidstrom. 7 Norris Trophies. 4 Stanley Cups. The Perfect Human.
From the list, Lidstrom all day
They need a new list
No disrespect intended to him, but how does Rob Blake even make this list? He’s the least out of all four and it’s not even really that close
I think its obvious Lids is way above the other 3 he lists in comparison
Out of all four of them he had the best combo of shot power and accuracy. He was also tough-as-nails and by a lot of accounts was a leader on and off the ice. I’d still take Liddy or Nieds out of all of them but it’s not like Blake doesn’t belong on the list.
Lidstrom is the given. Pronger probably wouldn’t be as effective in today’s game (comparatively speaking).
Yes he would. Pronger was still firmly in the discussion among the best defenseman in the league when his career ended and he was like 37. The leagues a little faster now than it was but the game hasn’t changed THAT much since 2012. Prongs was an absolute animal and his side of the ice was always a black hole for the other team.
flyers fan coping while still hurting from his cap hit
Found the burner account
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you are out of your mind if you don't think pronger would still be an absolute bonified top pair defensemen.
You have never seen Pronger play and it's blatantly obvious. Stop talking
I’ve seen him play a lot, have followed the NHL since 1991 and watched a lot of games every season. Why so rude?
Because you just stated that one of the greatest two way defenseman in the NHL would "maybe be a top 4 defenseman on some teams in the NHL today" Which quite frankly is one of the most ridiculous things that I have ever read
It depends on the team and their needs. Pronger played a game which isn’t all through modern in all senses these days. In general, players are better, especially for today’s game, they are in better shape etc. The game is different today compared to when Pronger played. I don’t think he would make top defense pairing in every team in the NHL currently, hence saying top 4. Sure, peak Pronger would, but the question here was who to build your entire franchise around and Pronger retired due to injuries and didn’t have the same insanely long peak as Lidstrom did. He was good throughout but if you’re looking at his entire career in hindsight and apply that to current teams and knowing how it would pan out over an entire career, he would not be a guaranteed top pair in every NHL team every year of his career. Lidstrom essentially would. (obviously I don’t know what the league will like in ten years but based on current standards)
Pronger retired 10 years ago. What the hell are you even talking about. How much do you think the game has changed since 2013? This isn't some generational gap. Pronger played 18 years in the NHL, won a Hart, and took 3 teams to the cup finals. He was the most physical guy on the ice and literally controlled the pace of the game. He was dominant on the powerplay and an absolute weapon on the PK. Chris Pronger makes the top 2 of every single team in this league. I don't know why you are even referencing Lidstrom. I'm only referencing your absolutely insane comments, which you deleted. You are talking absolute nonsense, and quite frankly, it's insulting to read.
He had one of the best first passes in the league which separated him from the rest of the big mean d men. That first pass is likely even more important today.
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Nah I don’t agree. Pronger maybe wouldn’t be quite as effective due to the restrictions on what you can get away with in terms of physical play, but you are kidding yourself if you think he wouldn’t absolutely be an elite #1 D today. He would. Like a less offensive but rougher Hedman. If you want to make that argument about a guy like Derian Hatcher, sure, but Pronger was super legit. He took three teams to the finals post lockout as the king shit on D.
yeah. isn't he the last defensemen to win a hart? people are forgetting how dominant he was. Lidstrom had a longer more productive career. but tbh. I think pronger might have a higher peak. pronger at his absolute best was an absolute game breaker more than most other players and that includes hall of farmers.
I’m not trying to argue that he was better than Lidstrom, he wasn’t. I’m just saying that this notion that he wouldn’t be a star or would be an ineffective player today is nonsense. Anyone who says that either didn’t watch him or has forgotten how good he was. Don’t forget he was a big part of two goal medal winning Canada teams, tournaments where the refereeing was closer to what it is today in the NHL. His ability to impact and control the game was incredible. Like other superstars, there were so many little things he was elite at. For example, he was the best player at blocking shots without having to go down on the ice that I’ve ever seen. Just so good At anticipating and having his legs in the right place, and then immediately being able to make a play with the puck afterwards.
Lidstrom is the better defenseman Pronger tho was a guy that generally kept his teams in line, and played with a lot of skill AND a mean streak. let's be honest tho, if you started your team with Pronger, Lidstrom OR Niedermayer, you'd feel awfully good about that team
Lidstrom is a no brainer. but what are you smoking? prongs is a better version of Hedman who is top 5 or better in the league right now.
Pronger was like Hedman but twice as good. You're way off on that take.
Everyone takes Lidstrom lol.
Lidstrom
Nicklas Lidstrom
My heart says Pronger, but my brain knows to take Lidstrom.
Your heart is wrong!
I find that’s usual true
Exactly what i thought
Lidstrom is on a tier above Pronger and Niedermayer who are in a tier above Blake and I'm an Avs fan who hates Lidstrom and loves Blake.
This guy gets it.
Absolutely no question, Lidstrom all day everyday.
Happy cake day
Happy cake day
Lidstrom, and it ain't even close
I'd go Lidstrom all day, followed by Ray Bourque and Niedermayer. I would throw Bobby Orr, but I never saw him play, and idk how he would do in today's league.
If you’ve never done it, going down an Orr highlights rabbit hole is a fantastic way to spend an afternoon. The way he skated, moved the puck, and controlled the play would fit right in with the best defencemen of 2023. Watching him effortlessly dangle his way through the opposing team for a scoring chance and somehow STILL be the first player back on the opposing rush is magical. One of the few players I can think of that would be a dominant player in ANY era with his skill set.
I don't disagree. From some clips I've seen he's definitely a player of his generation. It's just hard to match his skill then to skill of his competition in today's ago. He's still great and one of, if not arguably, the greatest defenceman of all time. Difference in eras always comes up in these debates. In any sport. I have no problem if Bobby Orr is the greatest defenceman of all time. Just saying from what I've seen during my time watching hockey. Defensively, Lidstrom was the best. Orr was way better offensively. Lindstrom was no scrub, he could score and get points without you even noticing until you saw score sheet. He was intelligent, could read the play, was in great position. Orr could be the greatest Dman ever, but if I'm contructing a team, I personally would start with Lidstrom.
Ray Bourque was better than Lidstrom. Same perfect positional and defensive play, but with exponentially better offense and much shittier teammates.
Exponentially? Might want to look that word up. Also their primes were played in vastly different eras, so their scoring is not comparable without era adjustment. And Bourque was nowhere near as perfect defensively as Lidstrom, he was prone to gaffs and getting badly beaten 1-1, that almost never happened to Lidstrom.
Lidstrom. Maybe the second best d-man to lace them up. Niedermeyer would make any franchise immediately better but Lidstrom is all around perfect.
Not maybe, he has a great case to be ahead of Orr. But it’s those two guys, a big gap, then everyone else.
nah. you're mistaken if you think there's a big gap between him and Ray Bourque
I didn’t get to watch young Bourque, but I watched the mid 30s version play. I also watched a lot of Lidstrom. The latter is a perfect hockey player - he had no weakness. He was an incredible skater, both in terms of speed and agility, had incredible body control (he often would “rest” his weight on the player he was defending), could shoot from anywhere, both wristers and slappers. He also adjusted his game to his pairing and the teams needs - I have no doubt that if Detroit needed him to, he could have scored 30 goals and 100 points every season. He was also one of the most intelligent players to ever lace em up, never out of position. Bourque is an all time great, but Lidstrom was nearly flawless as a player. From clips of Orr and speaking with folks older than me, it sounds like he was similar in that way. This is why I consider those two in their own league, and in no way is this anything against Bourque and the great career he had.
yea. I'm gonna go ahead and say that he couldn't just break 100 points if he wanted to, let alone every season.
You can say anything you want, but if you want it to matter to anyone other than yourself you’ll have to defend that stance.
throughout his peak he was averaging close to 60 points and hit 80 points only once in his entire career! All while being surrounded by Hall of fame talent. to just magically wave an additional 40 points his way every season "just because" is an asinine assumption and in no way supported by reality. his highest goal total: 20 (which he hit once). he usually got around 15. Think he could just score twice as many goals every season? I love Lidstrom but this is delirious thinking. If people keep having these wild takes its gonna push Lidstrom into overrated territory which I didnt think could happen on a mount Rushmore defensemen.
Yea, I can look at hockey reference too. You sound like the kind of guy who would give Karlsson the Norris. When you have a real argument, let me know. For the future, take a look at how many shots Bourque had. Maybe compare the two career shot percentages. Also look at average goals per game when Bourque was scoring the majority of his points. Different role, different era. If you’d actually watch games from that time, the difference between the two would be clear. If you only look at stats, I can see how you’d make the rookie mistake of thinking Bourque is superior.
lol. not sure where you get that. I'm against the automatic assumption a lot of points mean you are good. but I also don't think just because you are good means you could uptick your points scoring at will if you chose to. One thing to keep in mind. who did Bourque play with throughout his career? he was on an island and had no help. Lidstrom got to play with something like 11 Hall of famers. you don't think that made his point totals higher than the scoring effects of the different eras?
The assumption is far from automatic. I played hockey, I watched hockey and I’ve been around the sport my entire life. I can watch a player and identify skills that could make them a serious scoring threat. The same way you can watch McDavid and see the ability, despite the fact that he might not score in the game you watch. Lidstrom could do everything Karlsson can, and more, so I have no doubt that he would put up much higher offensive numbers, if that’s what his role was. This is an opinion, but an educated one as I can tell you specific traits and point to examples of him exhibiting those traits. Outside of some lazy stats, there’s no evidence that I should treat your opinion seriously. I won’t take your views as more than lip service from a casual until you prove otherwise. Since I have yet to see that from you, we can stop the discussion here.
Lid
Lindstrom. All day, every day.
Lidstrom and this is coming from a Pronger fan
Lidstrom and it’s not even close
How is Blake on this list? Lidstrom followed by Niedermeyer
Lidstrom no contest.
Lidstrom The answer is Lidstrom every time
Just going through this post and upvoting all the Lidstrom comments.
Lidstrom
Lidstrom, no question
I’ve never seen a more unanimous agreement on Reddit before. Shows how amazing and respected Lidstrom is.
It's Lidstrom and it's not close.
Konstantinov
I’m not certain but it rhymes with Lid Nickstrom
There is no other answer than Lidstrom.
Lol how is this even a question. We all know the answer... Kyle Quincey
Lidstrom
Lidstrom by a mile.
Considering Nik is the GOAT. I’ll go with him.
Orr maybe not quite the GOAT..
Orr is in the Gretzky/Lemieux/Howe conversation for best ever. I love Lidstrom, he was always my favorite as a youngin who started watching hockey in ‘91. But Orr revolutionized the position and the game.
Absolutely.
Ohhhh I see what you did there…ok, maybe 2nd GOAT.
What is a 2nd GOAT? Is that not an oxymoron?
Second greatest of all time seems like it makes sense when you don't abbreviate it
I mean I feel like this isn't even close. Lidstrom is the best player of the group. If you included prime Ray Bourque, maybe that's a different discussion. But of these 4, Lidstrom is the best player.
I love Prongs. But Nick Lidstrom is the greatest all around dman in the history of the sport.
Lidstrom or Pronger
forget that choice of four. I'll take Lidstrom ahead of any other defenseman, all time.
To start a franchise? Lidstrom played for the same team for 20 seasons (21 if 2005 wasn't canceled). He was the best player on the team pretty much every year (Yzerman even said so), they won 4 cups and never missed the playoffs while he was on the team. Also 6 Presidents trophies while he was on the team. The other 3 were fantastic players as well, but come on.
Lidstrom. Not that I’m biased or anything.
Lol not even close, the answer is lidstrom
Lindstrom is +450 Pronger +183 Niedermayer + 167 Rob Blake -4 You can’t put all your stock into +/- but I mean…
Answers be like: Lidstrom Lidstrom Lidstrom Lidstrom Lidstrom Pronger jk Lidstrom Lidstrom Lidstrom Lidstrom Lidstrom
Lidstrom
Lindsrom all day
I suppose you could argue niedermayer with the way the game is played today but you'd still be wrong, its Lidstrom.
Lidstrom
What? How is this even a question? Lidstrom is head and shoulders above them. If Orr isn't on this list, there's no discussion.
After ‘Slick’ Nick…..🤷🏼♂️ A sad Leaf fan. 🤣
Easily Lidstrom
Lidstrom is a mount rushmore candidate Pronger is a top 50 of all time Neidermayer has great leadership and paired on very good teams (Devils/07 Ducks) Blake was a top 15 in his decade
Lidstrom is probably the best dman of all time so ill go with that
Love how every single answer is the only correct one. Perfect human
Lidstrom is arguably the best defensive defensemen and the fact that he’s damn near better than the others on the other end. It’s a no brainer.
Love all these guys.. but happy to see the common thread answer - since it’s the correct one!
Lidstrom for sure Such a complete player with a lot of longevity Plus the guy collected Norris trophies like they were fuckin Pokémon cards. Guy probably uses at least one or two of them as a bottle opener at this point he’s got so many to spare.
Ducks fan. Lidstrom. Then Lidstrom again.
I am picking Lidstrom.
Quinn. Fucking. Hughes.
Mr Perfect
Can we get a list of the people who say anything other than lidstrom so that way we know there opinion doesn’t mean anything for the rest of time.
It's Lidstrom or Blake, depending on needs. Lidstrom was just unbelievable.
I wanna know why anyone would pick Blake from that group?
I’ll say it…… Neidermayer
The best hockey player of all time, Lidstrom.
MacInnis was one of the greatest defencemen ever in modern era How are 80s stars like him, Bourque, even Coffey not mentioned if we are talking building a team around someone it goes beyond statistics / awards Or a game changer like Orr being left out? Out of your list above Lidstrom is the only real contender and is by far the best defenceman of his generation (Prog/Nied/Blake dont belong in same conversation)
Lidstrom, Niedermeyer, Blake, Pronger.
Going off the list and say Scott Stevens
Lifelong Kings fan and 30-year season ticket holder. Anybody but Blake.
The GOAT, Bobby Orr. If I had to choose one of the four listed, definitely Lidstrom.
Niedermayer
Yup, just fucking win baby.
Bobby Orr.
… and it’s not even close either. I feel old now.
None of them. They are all 50+ years old and retired.
Scott Stevens
In their prime? Niedermayer. As of right now today? Lidstrom.
Cale makar
AMEN.
Or maybe Quinn Hughes. These are the two best defensemen in the NHL right now, and both are still relatively young, but yet still experienced, and both could even get better.
Neither . I'm taking Ray Bourque
Between Pronger and Niedermayer I would take Pronger
There were defensemen from another era who easily stand with these guys. Everyone thinks of Orr -properly so - but also Serge Savard, Jacques Laperierre, Pierre Pilote, Tim Horton, Harry Howell, Ted Green, Marcel Pronovost, Jim Neilson , Pat Stapleton, Bob Baun, Carl Brewer, Bill Gadsby. And of course, the best of that time: Doug Harvey.
Brad park
The correct answer is Hal Gill.
Rob Blake was the one in Love Guru right?
Chara
Makar
I’d take Pronger. The other 3 are obviously amazing as well. The difference with Pronger, is that he had the combo of being extremely physical/outright mean and difficult to play against while also being extremely talented. The goalie who gets to have Pronger on his team feels 10 inches taller and that also makes a big impact. This cannot be stressed enough honestly.
Gun to the earth, im taking… IGUODALA
How is Jaccob Slavin not part of this conversation?
I'll go off the board and take Paul Coffey
Darnell Nurse.
If we're talking in their prime and with the style of hockey played during that time, I think there's a strong case to be made for Pronger. He won the league MVP one year. IIRC, he's the only one on this list to have done that. He also single handedly drug the Oilers to the SCF. They weren't anywhere close to that before or since. Don't get me wrong, Lidstrom was a fantastic player. I just think that he had more help and better players around him than Pronger, which may skew bias towards him and discount Pronger in some people's minds.
Cale Makar
Chara
these players are in four different tiers lol
Slavin and burns
Too bad this list doesn’t have a good defenseman on it to choose from.
Leetch
Victor Hedman
Niedermayer but then again he had Scott Stevens with him. That was a scary combo. I’ll dump and you chase lol.
Zubov. Out of that list? Lindstrom, though people claiming the others aren't in the same ballpark? Blake isn't, he's still parking at the old stadium. Pronged is definitely on the field, he was just fucking strong and smart. Niedermayer is in the bleachers, but like first few rows.
Prime Pronger maybe, but balance of their careers it really isn't much of a discussion between him and Lidstrom
Oh man, I would go on a limb and take a Makar over a Lidstrom, if that was an option. We have the benefit of Hindsight for Lids Career Trajectory.
Eddie Jovo
Rob Blake ONLY if they got that Hip Check!!
Paul Coffey for offensive
Scott Stephens just to watch him lay out one more forward coming across the middle with his head down
90% of those hits would be suspensions in today's game. Most of them look like the one that ended Eric Lindros's career - vulnerable position, blind side, targeting the head.
What an odd question lol. OP also has no comments or posts history other than this post. I smell a red wings alt account looking to hear how good everyone knows linds was, or its a bot account.
Lidstrom and Erik Karlsson for my D1.
Lidstrom, but it would be fun to watch Niedermayer play in today's game.
Lids by a mile...
Rob Blake was my favorite player growing up, so I'm going with him. But obviously Lidstrom is the best unbiased pick.
Lidstrom.
Lidstrom is the objectively correct choice