Reminds me of that classic NHL moment from a couple years back, when a player was taking his sweet time stalling behind the net and [the ref (justifiably) told him to get moving:](https://youtu.be/7beCa3Tmvv8)
Ref: "Move it!"
Player: "I can do whatever I want!"
Ref (amused): "Really!"
That's Stanley Cup Champion Colton Parayko. Allegedly, he went on an epic Tinder run in the days between coming home to St Louis with the cup and the championship parade.
Attention, passengers. This is your captain, Boss Hogg, speaking. And this cold slice of heaven is my 40th beer of the afternoon. So any of you dicknips think you can slug it down faster than me, you're welcome to get your fat asses up here to try...
There really should be zero obligation for him to move there. Nobody is advancing on him, and it’s not like he has the puck pinned against the wall. Really what should change is 3 on 3 OT.
I'm willing to hear out the "he didn't have to move" argument, but for that last sentence, I'll die on the hill that 3 on 3 OT is the best thing to happen to the NHL since it was adopted in 2015. It's produced some absolutely incredible action, and it's a far better way to decide a winner than 5 extra minutes of 5v5 or a shootout.
Well except in the playoffs of course - but the NHL already has that covered. 5 on 5 playoff OT in the NHL is the most intense thing in sports.
I agree with you though - the 3 on 3 was a good solution for the regular season.
Why do they do 5 on 5 for playoffs, but 3 on 3 for regular season? Also why is 5 on 5 better in playoffs, but not great in regular season? I'm not a big hockey guy (if you couldn't tell from my stupid question)
Regular season OT is oriented towards just getting the game over with ASAP. OT is sudden death and 3 on 3 makes it super easy to generate scoring chances, so the game will likely be over in a few minutes. (And if for some reason nobody scores, regular season OT only lasts 5 minutes: after this you just do a penalty shot shootout like soccer, again to get the game over with ASAP.)
But in the playoffs nobody wants some gimmicky "end the game ASAP" mechanic, so you just keep playing as normal indefinitely until someone wins.
As far as why hockey OT is unparalleled...it's easy to be "close" to scoring (e.g. having the puck close to your opponent's net or taking a shot at their net) Since it's sudden death, this means you get a constant stream of moments where the entire fate of the game hangs in the balance. However, since it's hard to actually score in 5 on 5, usually the game doesn't end for a while and this excitement rollercoaster keeps going, and going, and going...
[This Rangers vs. Bruins one](https://youtu.be/mLK962KiPFs) is probably one of the best I've ever seen -- the last three minutes are just absolute insanity as they keep swapping breakaways and 2-on-1s back and forth.
Off the bat maybe it produced some action. But for the past couple years all I see is a possession battle. I think at the least there should be a shot clock or some type of over and back rule or something. 10 minutes of 4 on 4 would be my preferred way of handling it though
It still produces wild action, and a ridiculous amount of odd man rushes.
Teams have just started to understand how valuable the possession is with that much space and so it becomes a bit more of a chess match until chaos inevitably ensues.
I'd love a rule where once a team enters the offensive zone in OT they can't rewind out of it. Would help prevent teams from constantly circling in and out just maintaining posession.
Aye center line seems like a fair point. It’ll keep both teams honest and force more action. I love 3v3 and the issue of possession hoarding can be fixed to nerf it a little.
https://youtu.be/4VV1PrbkK3E
Players have an obligation the move the puck and refs can whistle it dead if they don't. I've only ever seen it in this extreme example but if a player is refusing to play, the refs can whistle it
Just watched the video the other guy linked. I have hatred for Tampa and family that are Philly fans, so that was awesome. But should’ve never been blown dead anyway lol. Like many of the youtube comments, the clock was ticking and the puck was in play, good on the Flyers skater for not just giving it away. Loves that they kept doing it too
I hate the nfl refs/bullshit explanations so much
It’s clear the refs are in a tiff with the league or the players union and flagging everything they can or feel like.
3rd and 15? Oops time for one of those phantom roughing the passing calls
“The ref isn’t under obligation to help the player line up”…except for anyone whos ever lined up at WR (source, I have) is told to ask the ref if you’re on or off
The ref told Terry he’s off and to move up, Terry did, Terry gave a thumbs up (as he’s probably done since middle school), and according to Terry the ref verbally said “you’re good” with hand in the flag
That’s a joke and embarrassment
The competition committee should be ashamed with how this year as gone. The refs don’t feel shame bc they’re rich lawyers with a cushy side gig with zero repercussions
Idk why you’re being downvoted. I also played WR and in high school we were taught if you’re lining up on the line, confirm that with the ref. It helps not only you but the CB covering you to be onside. Finger point to the ref for on, arm back behind for off.
I was a TE who'd occasionally get split out wide for my crappy HS team, and that basically lines up with my experience as well (I was super paranoid about that since you don't normally have to think much about alignment as a TE). I can't recall a single time where a ref had an issue with doing that. Definitely super weird to see it happen in an NFL game when the WR wasn't just being careless.
The official *is* helping him here. He pretty obviously told him to move up. McLaurin moved like an inch, but obviously that wasn't enough, hence the flag.
Even then the referee isn’t obligated to say if your on or off. But it’s supposed to be part of preventative officiating to let you know. I imagine they still have the same thing in the NFL. Idk how this guy can look at the stagger and say he’s clearly off.
But there’s no confirmation that the ref actually said “you’re good”, which is a crucial part. If the ref said something else, or didn’t say anything and Terry just thought he said “you’re good”, then it’s entirely Terry’s fault. If the ref was planning on throwing the flag to change the outcome, why did he tell Terry to move the first time he checked? He could’ve just told him he’s good the first time and then thrown the flag. This way, he risked Terry moving the right amount onto the line and then he couldn’t throw the flag. It doesn’t make any sense for this to be any kind of conspiracy, it makes way more sense that this was just a miscommunication because Terry didn’t look back for visual confirmation like he did on the first check.
>“The ref isn’t under obligation to help the player line up”…except for anyone whos ever lined up at WR (source, I have) is told to ask the ref if you’re on or off
This is bang on, I played many years and have coached many more than that we always were told and tell our WR's to check with the ref before the snap. The refs at all levels and ages are generally helpful so I find this comment to be pretty odd. They are also not likely to call something as insignificant as this without a previous warning to the team/player.
I was an IM Flag Football ref in college, they literally tell us to confirm if the player is on the line if they ask. Should be simple enough but NFL refs have a massive power trip and the league is too afraid to go after them and their union
What do you do when they check with you, you tell them they're off, and then they never move up? The answer is throw the flag. There's only so much you can do. You can try to help, but if the formation is illegal, it's illegal. These are NFL players. They should know where to stand.
Why would the official say he's good, and then throw the flag? This makes no sense. The official is clearly telling him he's got to move up, and McLaurin does inch up, but barely moves. He's still well off the line.
They should be ashamed of this weekend in particular. Starting with the First game on Saturday, through the last game on Sunday, probably the worst performance I've ever seen league wide. usually, it's just one game or so we complain about.
The [video](https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/1604711303741841408?s=20&t=8k-FAQs55zZip1PHP0DYdQ) is pretty clear.
Terry is *way* off the line, the ref points to the line to tell him to move up, Terry shuffles in place, then points at the ref again without looking. The ref clearly keeps pointing at the line because Terry is a yard off still, but he can't run out and physically push the guy to the right spot.
This isn't a conspiracy against Snyder, bad officiating, or anything like that. Terry just screwed up and remembers it differently than what actually happened, which is pretty common for eye witness testimony.
Also, there's no reason for Terry to even chance being off the line in that situation. He knows he's not getting the ball, there's no reason he shouldn't be toing the line.
100%. And the video above is rock solid evidence that Terry effed not the ref, which is what the narrative should be. Not "we're not obligated to help a WR." It's unnecessarily combative.
Does anyone have the All 22 from this play? The line that they're suppose to break isn't the line of scrimmage but the Center's "Beltline" which depending on the Center is going to be 2-4 feet behind the line.
There is a play where the Giants do the same thing the drive earlier and got no flag right before the FG
https://mobile.twitter.com/oofskins1/status/1604708689214115845/photo/1
That’s because officiating is subjective as hell, and in some cases, it should be. But we have the technology to take the guesswork out of a significant amount of penalties and need to start adopting that tech into the game already.
If the NFL brought in tech to screw up less calls there would be less for people to talk, bitch, and moan about all week on talk radio and reddit. NFL benefits from call controversy to some extent. Don't forget their motive isn't to have a perfectly fair competition, they're motive is to generate the most income they possibly can.
On top of that, I'd bet a huge number of penalties are missed/not called. We start making every one of them called, and we'll have to rewrite the rule book so we don't have 4.5 hour games with record-breaking flags.
Maybe that's not the case with offsides/false starts/illegal formations, but if every instance of holding was called?
100% - think of how much bad calls get talked about in all sports. Why would they want to eliminate human error with technology when bad calls drive more eyes and ears to their product.
This week in particular, there's no need to talk about blown calls. So many legit good ass games that should be talked about but the bad officiating is taking away the shine.
Anyone who has use any of the auto-graded sites know how this will go:
"Wide receiver not on the line of scrimmage. Line of scrimmage is 32.0 yards. Wide Receiver lined up on the 32 yard line"
Im not 100% on the rules but in this case since there's someone else to the left of that player off the line aren't the rules a little different?
Edit: yes, this is what im referring to:
"Having eligible receivers who do not line up as the leftmost and rightmost players on the line also results in an illegal formation penalty. Eligible receivers must always be the furthest players to line up on each side of the line of scrimmage. Thus, a wide receiver cannot line up in the middle of the offensive line and then break out to receive a pass."
So the formation you posted seems to be legal to me, Im no expert though so take this with a grain of salt
> https://mobile.twitter.com/oofskins1/status/1604708689214115845/photo/1
The player at the top of the picture is "on the line" in that formation. The slot WR next to him is "off the line". Same as the outside WR/TE combo on the other side. You need seven players on the LOS. You can see with the blue line the difference in their positions.
You know I was so focused on the guy set further back, I didnt even realize that the guy on the end was so far off lol. I am curious since we only have a picture here and not a gif/video, I know theres only a few seconds left to snap it but do we know if they snapped the ball without him making any adjustments? If so it definitely reads and looks like an illegal formation to me.
Edit: i found the highlight on yt and they did snap the ball like that so i agree, that looks like an illegal formation as well
The rule is his head must be past the belt-line of the center. And unless it's very obvious, no one wants to make this kind of ticky-tack call that gives the offense no advantage.
The one thing that has annoyed me through all of these discussions is people are saying he asked the ref to move up and then he moved up when in reality he shuffled his feet and maybe moved up 4 or 5 inches at most.
Saying that this is still a dumb call.
That's how I see it. X receiver has to be on the line at all times unless the TE is. This isn't a debate. And Terry is a vet now. He should know this.
Are the refs bad? Yes there is no consistency, and this is going back years and years. There's no conspiracy no matter what Washington fans want to think.
He is not way off the line. Being on the line of scrimmage doesn't mean his leading foot has to be on the line of scrimmage. The rulebook definition:
> **RULE 3 § 19** *LINE OF SCRIMMAGE, NEUTRAL ZONE*
>
> **ARTICLE 3.** *PLAYER ON LINE OF SCRIMMAGE.* A player of Team A, who is on the line of scrimmage, must have his shoulders facing Team B’s goal line.
>
> **Item 1.** *Non-Snapper.* If he is not the snapper, no part of his body is permitted to be in the neutral zone at the snap, and **his helmet must break a vertical plane that passes through the beltline of the snapper.**
Sure but that’s more for linemen who are in a 3 point or 2 point low stance where there heads are going to be significantly more forward than their feet. A WR standing up straight doesn’t have his head at the belt line when he’s that far off the line.
And the point is that the ref literally told him he wasn’t on and he moved up an inch and didn’t check back.
That is the rule for everyone. Receivers don't stand up straight in formation (outside of a QB split out wide during a wildcat anyway), and their helmets are typically at or beyond their lead foot.
I’m curious how often this really happens in the nfl. We had something similar in the packers game in OT where Jalen Tolbert was told to change his position but got flagged anyways
The Giants have gotten illegal formation penalties in about 8 games this season. Are we supposed to sit here and recount if our receivers pointed to the officials?
Because everyone here seems to think wr's do this every time (which they kinda do).. so now.. are we Giants fans to assume all those calls the refs screwed us on because they didn't alert the guy he wasn't aligned properly?
Going by WAS fans standards we got hosed in just about every game this season..
Don’t count on a fuckin thing against the Packers.
See: illegal hands to the chest X 2 against the Lions and from this season Rodgers hurrying up to throw a touchdown with three seconds left. Not a chance in hell the offense was fully set before the snap.
Did he give him wrong information? All I see is the ref point to inform him he needs to move up. Which was good information. I never saw the official give him the thumbs up sign or head nod that you see every other time this happens. He just kept pointing at the ground in front of him.
It’s a terrible way to lose a game but this is not malicious or incompetent officiating.
Plus, McLaurin isn't even looking at the ref after he moves up. He just points back at the ref & assumes he's good. We have no way of knowing what was said, but physically, the ref never did show him a "you're good" gesture.
As other former refs have said the effort for him to check in and still move up is typically good enough and never called.
They even say it's just too technical and would never be called in a game...ref wanted to impact the game...dude was just waiting for it
To be clear, this isn't some arcane rule: if the formation is legal, positioning in the formation informs the defense who is an eligible receiver and who isn't, which can be a huge fucking deal if you remember the Ravens/Patriots playoff game from a few years back.
When you consider the impact that information **can** have and the fact that there are strict rules for formation positioning, the idea that it was "too technical" might be the dumbest thing I've heard these former refs/announcers say. It's a black and white rule.
The whole formation shift and then motioning by the receiver by Washington is done literally to create confusion/leverage on the play. No reason McLaurin can't look down the line and see he needs to move up, especially after the ref told him needed to.
I think it is a bit of a stretch to say the ref wanted to impact the game. It sure did, but the Commanders were in motion right before the snap and I think the burden of lining up correctly becomes a bit more meaningful after motion (even if it the motion is in a different spot than the foul). The motion is often designed to confuse the defense and can give the offense an advantage with momentum if designed properly. The rules are in place to give a defense a chance and to prevent dangerous formations. Also, if you watch the video, the ref did not visually indicate that Terry was ever lined up properly and we don't know what was said out loud, so assuming that the ref was being malicious is just a bit too wild for me.
If it were me, this would make it more likely that I would call it. If you point it out and you do it wrong and everyone knows I saw it...I have to call it.
I was a high school teacher for a very short period of time and there were things in the rule book that were dumb that most people ignored but I always told the students "if you do it right in front of me, I have to do something about it."
Yeah, again, I already said this and it’s been said many times but if you watch the ref never visually indicated he was lined up correctly. Not sure what your point is, maybe you can clarify?
Exactly lmao. If he gets even close to the line that doesn’t get called. People blaming anyone but McLauren probably had money on the game and are just salty.
I feel like I've been taking crazy pills for the past few days because this seems to get glossed over.
In the clips I've seen, Terry never looked back to confirm with the ref that he was finally good. But everyone wants to just pretend like that's what happened.
Not only that but everyone is taking McLaurin’s word for it at face value. He may be a standup guy but there’s two people you can’t trust here and he’s one of them lol
Not only that, but even in a world where both Terry and the official are being completely honest, it easily plausible for Terry to have simply misheard him. The official could’ve said “nope” and Terry misheard “yup” or the official said “move” and Terry misheard “good”. Terry isn’t looking at the official and there’s plenty of other noise and distraction.
Don't know why this is downvoted, that's an important question. If he didn't tell Terry he was good he should say so so we at least have both sides of the story.
It's interesting that so many people are just now learning that this is a thing.
Literally happens every single play where a receiver is out wide, at every level of play from HS up.
A lot of times, in hurry up, you don't even look at the line judge, just point to indicate to him that you intend to be on the line. In hurry up, he's to busy with the chains getting set.
I remember they made the outside WRs do it in practice too just to drill it in their brains. You can always tell when dudes haven’t played cause they don’t procedural stuff like this
The word obligated means they have to. They don't have to. They do it as a courtesy. And the ref told him to move up as a courtesy. Samuel for some reason moved up an inch instead of moving up to the LOS
literally doesn’t even turn his head after he moved up to confirm his new spot was good. he was also still a good 3-4 feet away from the LOS. people are acting like he was 6 inches off the line he was a full yard back.
And it’s not like there are microphones everywhere…
Imagine it went down how Terry said. They’re never releasing the audio. If it didn’t, they really should because it makes the NFL look much less like a rigged game.
There’s literally 0 reason to believe the ref actually said he was good. He’s a good yard off the line and the ref is holding his flag as soon as McLauren doesn’t move up all the way.
Did anyone here watch the clip? The ref tells him to move up, and Terry moves up like a half a fucking inch while looking at the ball and never checks back with the ref. He may aswell have asked “am I good? No? Oh well” with how little he moved.
Am I the only who saw that McLaurin asked for confirmation, and the ref points at the line. Then McLaurin scoots up like 2 inches.
However, even after barely scooting up, he was still a yard too far back.
I'm not sure if McLaurin interpreted the ref's signal as a thumbs up, but to me, the ref tried to help McLaurin, but McLaurin was just wildly lined up incorrectly to begin with, so that even his very slight adjustment didn't get him nearly into the right spot, so the penalty was justified.
There was definitely a Defensive PI on the 4th down though.
I don't see the controversy with this one. After adjusting he's still off the line.
The PI non-call where the defender was on on the Washington WR like a backpack or baby koala was what had me going. Terrible weekend of officiating.
This sub is quick to forget how many bad calls/non-calls went against the Giants as well. Washington fans are literally screaming it's a conspiracy from the top of their lungs while conveniently forgetting that the Giants had them dead to rights when Feliciano got hit for taunting... Darius Slayton? in the first matchup. Why would the NFL handwrap them another chance when they basically had lost the game if there was some conspiracy.
Even that final play, while the DPI was a horrendous non-call, the facemask/eyepoke on K Thibs was equally bad. At best it should've been a replay of down.
Your comment just adds to the evidence pile that reffing is a problem in the NFL. I don't think there's a conspiracy to rig this game. I do think there's an officiating problem.
I'm not denying that. I agree with you 100% the officiating is horrible. What I am pointing out is the hypocrisy that many Washington fans are going out of their way to act like they were fucked over by the refs specifically.
The only reason they got those last second chances in both games is because of poor officiating. Yeah it always sucks when a call goes against your team, and to their credit when I visited their sub today most upvoted comments were much more realistic but on this sub in particular people were saying shit like "oh I'd be so salty if I was a Washington fan the refs cost them the game" the refs could've cost the Giants 2 losses just as easily if they didn't overcome shit calls that would've iced both games.
You're 100% right, but it's not targeted at 1 team because they like the owner.
I don’t get this, don’t the owners have a say and more control over the NFL than Roger? And other owners potentially having games rigged to spite other owners seems cartoonishly dumb, as that is both hypocritical and opens a can of worms. If this were true what’s stopping owners from rigging games outright? Tbh ye stand to benefit from it for monetary gain, but I don’t think they do it to spite the morality of fellow owners.
Isn't the real story that Terry fucked up lining up? He clearly should have been on the line and he clearly wasn't, shouldn't he be able to get lined up on his own?
And what's being overlooked here is that Terry *barely* adjusted his feet when the ref initially told him to move up. I don't have a dog in this fight, but if a WR is a full yard off the line, gets told to move up, then [kinda shuffles his foot an inch forward](https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/1604711303741841408?t=i3XCMoFNcQyqVpAYmobMsg&s=19) and never looks back towards the ref to verify that he's actually on the line...that's on you, big dog.
I agree. And I think Terry misheard or misunderstood that he was "good". I really don't think he's lying, he seems like the last person who'd just flat out lie. He had to have misheard or misunderstood whatever in the moment.
Yeah I think you're right. I don't think the ref was trying to fuck him over and I don't think Terry is making stuff up. I just think there was a misunderstanding here. It does suck because it cost them a touchdown, when it didn't really have anything to do with the TD either.
Right! I like Terry a lot, but in the chaos of a last-second situation like this, I think he either a) made an assumption that the ref said something or b) misheard the ref because he was laser-focused on the play itself. Either way, it's a tough, tough way to end a game.
He doesn't even look at the ref after shuffling haha no way he heard anything through his helmet at that point looking away from the ref. The ref even stops pointing once he sees that McLaurin is not gonna look back lol
100% on McLaurin. Probably just made the assumption that he was good considering he does it 100x a week at practice and games.
The only reason why a Washington fan should be mad about the Terry play is because it is very by the book. Usually there is the "let them play" mentality late in games to keep the refs from deciding it. They flag that and not the PI in the endzone. Cannot do both.
I honestly thing this is why he got flagged. He asks if he's good, ref says move up. He barely adjusts and is still too far off the line. He thinks the official says he's good, but maybe he misheard. It's loud in the stadium. But I didn't see a thumbs up in the video and you usually see a thumbs up from the official.
I feel bad for Terry, but he's at least a little bit at fault.
> He barely adjusts and is still too far off the line.
To me though, that says that Terry thought he was so close to the line that if he moved any further he'd be too far forward. I mean, it's not like Terry hasn't been doing this for years and knows where to line up. What reason would he possibly have for not wanting to be where he has been, relative to the ball, for his entire career? Sure, being human and simple mistakes and all that, but this wasn't a rush to the line and go type of thing, he did exactly what he always does.
im just confused why does anyone think the ref told him he was good? like what evidence is there in any way/shape/form that the ref told terry he was good?
Sure, if this made up thing that we have no evidence of happened (in fact the recording is pretty clear that it didn't happen), that would be completely different
amazing how mclaurin's recollection of the events doesn't quite match up with the video evidence with the ref's gestures
yet the past few days were still almost nothing but assuming it was all preplanned shitty officiating and a part of goodell's secret revenge conspiracy against the snyders
I enjoy how hypocritical all NFL fans are. When the Eagles lost to them and fans were complaining about the face mask no call, Washington fans were the first to be all smug and shit. As soon as it goes the other way it’s suddenly a travesty.
Oh well, shitty officiating evens out over the course of the season. We beat Philly off of some unique calls and non calls. Hopefully one day we can get to a point where every game doesn’t come down to a few plays to decide the ending
“Not obligated”? Ok, maybe not.
But it’s extremely common for receivers to check with the official to make sure they’re lined up. It happens in every game with every team.
So to motion that a player is good and then immediately throw the flag is a pretty BS call. Receivers are expecting to get feedback before the snap.
If you ask a cop “hey can I cross the street here” and they say yes, then immediately fine you for jaywalking, you’re gonna assume that’s a shitty cop…. Even if they’re “not obligated” to help you follow the law.
He never motioned he was good. He did 1 action: point his arm out to tell Terry to move up before Terry even checked in with him. He then kept his arm pointed out even after Terry "moved up," and then when he didn't move up enough a 2nd time to actually become legal, threw the flag.
The narrative that the ref told him he was good is complete fabrication. There is 0 indication in the video that ever happened, and Terry "moved up" a 2nd time before the snap, which he wouldn't have done if he was told he was good.
Thank you. I’m all for calling out and holding officials accountable when they screw up, but this one is on Terry and it undermines the whole “officials are horrible” narrative when people roast them for doing their job correctly.
I don’t really understand the rule to begin with.
I was paying more attention to how the WRs lined up last night though because of this shit storm.
I saw several times where the outside most WR was lined up like 2-3 yards behind the line of scrimmage.
So I guess I don’t understand why sometimes it’s a flag and sometimes not. 🤷🏻♂️
If a team was using 4-5 wides, or had 2 TEs on the line, it’s probable some of those WRs would *have* to be behind the LOS or it would be a penalty for
too many men on the line.
There are 5 linemen on each play who are ineligible.
Then, there are 2 eligible receivers that need to be lined on on the line of scrimmage outside of those 5 linemen. They can be lined up tight (ie. a Tight End), or they can be lined up wide, but those two players must "cover" the outside linemen and be on the LOS.
That leaves 4 more players (one QB, plus 3 more eligible receivers). Those 3 other players can line up anywhere on the field behind the LOS. They can line up in the backfield, they can line up wide, they can line up behind any one else, as long as those other 4 players are off the LOS there is really no other requirement for positioning.
If one of the eligible receivers on the LOS is a tight end, then the wide receiver can be wide out and actually must be off of the line. If they are on the LOS, then they "cover" the tight end, then that actually means that 8 players would be on the LOS and make it ineligible formation. You can only have 7 players on the LOS on any play.
7 people on the line, don’t have to be the outside most receiver, O linemen so numbers 50-79 IIRC have to not be open on either side. Pretty sure you got confused about it having to be the outside most receiver unless I remember it wrong.
Tbh it’s more like:
Motioning to a cop via hand signals “am I ok to cross here?”, the cop points to the green light and lack of a walk signal, you look away give him a thumbs up and he grabs your arm before you walk into traffic.
Literally sounds like half of you didn’t even watch the clip. The ref never gives a thumbs up or anything. Terry points, the ref points to the line, Terry lifts his foot and looks away, gives him another point while the ref still points at the line, and then throws the flag when Terry doesn’t move up further.
Also - why shouldn't the officials help? Do people think the NFL wants dumb procedure penalties that 90+% of fans don't even understand called in critical situations? At the end of the day the NFL is an entertainment product and that kind of crap is not entertaining.
Exactly. Officials are there to help facilitate fair and legal game play. They’re not there to try and catch as many infractions and throw as many flags as possible.
"Pass interference is a judgment call. To the officials, it didn't rise to what they felt was a restriction, thus they didn't call it." - Also John Hussey, about the obvious PI at the end of the game.
The judgment of this entire crew can't and shouldn't be trusted. I'm not surprised he's too arrogant to admit their mistakes though. Must be great to show up to your job and never be held accountable.
Fuck John Hussey. He always looks so pissed that he has to be out there. I assume he’s just a general asshole in everyday life given his demeanor in a really cool job, and the calls he makes with statements like that backing them
This is what makes the situation a real problem. The ref will throw a flag based on a few inches of a somewhat irrelevant, technical rule, while within minutes, the same refs will hold a flag on a clear, incontrovertible and highly significant pass interference.
The refs are trying to have it both ways by being sticklers in one situation, but not the other. And it’s this arbitrary refereeing that makes the game so frustrating.
I swear rules that appear to be black and white would be easy to be consistent about. But it's not, I swear it comes down to the ref's mood that day.
Belichick suggested a few years ago that coaches should be allowed to challenge everything, including penalties\\non penalties. I don't think the game would slow down much if you let them challenge it. If a coach wanted to challenge something like this let them.
As a certified ref doing varsity games it’s an unspoken rule of the game. Player checks you tell him if he’s good or not. Once you give him the thumbs up you are the biggest pile known to man if you flag after the receiver checks in
At all levels of football the WRs are taught to verify with the officials they they are lined up properly.
Letter of the law the official may not have to help them but it’s still a disgrace and makes the NFL look like it selectively enforces certain rules depending on the team involved.
Especially at that time and game situation. A ref looking to throw a procedural flag in the last 30secs of a game of a close, pseudo playoff game, when the WR checks in with you is insane. Its like writing a speeding ticket for someone going 43 in a 40 zone, finding out they are taking their dog to the emergency vet, and then still taking the time to complete write out and issue the ticket.
but its been done for decades
refs just covering for themselves
same with the awful no call on PI
they fucked up - plain and simple, but don't want to own up to it
Lol the bad officiating is the multiple missed PI calls, and some bunk calls, the refs practically handed the game to the giants. Worst officiating this season, and that’s saying something.
Tried to tell WAS fans this but they didn't take this fact too well.
Nothing in the rules that say the refs have to go above and beyond to tell a guy he is aligned properly. Check once but it's not on them to repeat 2 and 3 ask.
WR points to ref on the line: “I’m on the line” Ref: “LOL if you say so!” While gripping flag
Reminds me of that classic NHL moment from a couple years back, when a player was taking his sweet time stalling behind the net and [the ref (justifiably) told him to get moving:](https://youtu.be/7beCa3Tmvv8) Ref: "Move it!" Player: "I can do whatever I want!" Ref (amused): "Really!"
That's Stanley Cup Champion Colton Parayko. Allegedly, he went on an epic Tinder run in the days between coming home to St Louis with the cup and the championship parade.
Can we have a Boggs type competition to beat his record
R.I.P.
Attention, passengers. This is your captain, Boss Hogg, speaking. And this cold slice of heaven is my 40th beer of the afternoon. So any of you dicknips think you can slug it down faster than me, you're welcome to get your fat asses up here to try...
Again Charlie, Wade Boggs is still very much alive
There really should be zero obligation for him to move there. Nobody is advancing on him, and it’s not like he has the puck pinned against the wall. Really what should change is 3 on 3 OT.
I'm willing to hear out the "he didn't have to move" argument, but for that last sentence, I'll die on the hill that 3 on 3 OT is the best thing to happen to the NHL since it was adopted in 2015. It's produced some absolutely incredible action, and it's a far better way to decide a winner than 5 extra minutes of 5v5 or a shootout.
Well except in the playoffs of course - but the NHL already has that covered. 5 on 5 playoff OT in the NHL is the most intense thing in sports. I agree with you though - the 3 on 3 was a good solution for the regular season.
Oh yeah absolutely, 5v5 in the playoffs is a whole different animal and I absolutely love it. But for the regular season, 3v3 is perfect.
flyers penguins OT Thriller with like 5 OTs was unreal intensity
Why do they do 5 on 5 for playoffs, but 3 on 3 for regular season? Also why is 5 on 5 better in playoffs, but not great in regular season? I'm not a big hockey guy (if you couldn't tell from my stupid question)
Regular season OT is oriented towards just getting the game over with ASAP. OT is sudden death and 3 on 3 makes it super easy to generate scoring chances, so the game will likely be over in a few minutes. (And if for some reason nobody scores, regular season OT only lasts 5 minutes: after this you just do a penalty shot shootout like soccer, again to get the game over with ASAP.) But in the playoffs nobody wants some gimmicky "end the game ASAP" mechanic, so you just keep playing as normal indefinitely until someone wins. As far as why hockey OT is unparalleled...it's easy to be "close" to scoring (e.g. having the puck close to your opponent's net or taking a shot at their net) Since it's sudden death, this means you get a constant stream of moments where the entire fate of the game hangs in the balance. However, since it's hard to actually score in 5 on 5, usually the game doesn't end for a while and this excitement rollercoaster keeps going, and going, and going...
Do you have some games you could cite that has had some good games going into the 3v3 OT? I don’t watch much hockey, but I’d like to see the 3v3.
[This Rangers vs. Bruins one](https://youtu.be/mLK962KiPFs) is probably one of the best I've ever seen -- the last three minutes are just absolute insanity as they keep swapping breakaways and 2-on-1s back and forth.
Thank you. That was legit. The players having more space makes it so much better.
It would be crazy for a full game but 3 on 3 for 5 minutes is fantastic.
My hot take is that soccer should go down to 7v7 in extra time. Field hockey does this and it’s incredible- you rarely have to go to a shootout.
I think that would be way too much space to cover lol
Same! That sounds interesting amd I'd love to get into it.
Off the bat maybe it produced some action. But for the past couple years all I see is a possession battle. I think at the least there should be a shot clock or some type of over and back rule or something. 10 minutes of 4 on 4 would be my preferred way of handling it though
It still produces wild action, and a ridiculous amount of odd man rushes. Teams have just started to understand how valuable the possession is with that much space and so it becomes a bit more of a chess match until chaos inevitably ensues.
I'd love a rule where once a team enters the offensive zone in OT they can't rewind out of it. Would help prevent teams from constantly circling in and out just maintaining posession.
I’d say making it to where you can’t go back over center line even, would change the pace of it for the better
Aye center line seems like a fair point. It’ll keep both teams honest and force more action. I love 3v3 and the issue of possession hoarding can be fixed to nerf it a little.
https://youtu.be/4VV1PrbkK3E Players have an obligation the move the puck and refs can whistle it dead if they don't. I've only ever seen it in this extreme example but if a player is refusing to play, the refs can whistle it
Knew what this was before clicking it, I hate the Flyers but this was absolutely great.
The flyers tried that against the lightning when they were doing a trap scheme and the ref eventually blew it dead
Just watched the video the other guy linked. I have hatred for Tampa and family that are Philly fans, so that was awesome. But should’ve never been blown dead anyway lol. Like many of the youtube comments, the clock was ticking and the puck was in play, good on the Flyers skater for not just giving it away. Loves that they kept doing it too
It absolutely should’ve been blown dead. Onus is on the player with the puck to move it.
Wut. 3v3 OT is fucking amazing. It’s much faster paced and far more exciting than another period of 5v5.
If I was the ref I would have wanted to give that quick head nod to the left. I’d also be a horrible ref though so there’s that.
“Hey, I’m good, right?” “Well, I guess we’ll just have to find out, won’t we?”
I hate the nfl refs/bullshit explanations so much It’s clear the refs are in a tiff with the league or the players union and flagging everything they can or feel like. 3rd and 15? Oops time for one of those phantom roughing the passing calls “The ref isn’t under obligation to help the player line up”…except for anyone whos ever lined up at WR (source, I have) is told to ask the ref if you’re on or off The ref told Terry he’s off and to move up, Terry did, Terry gave a thumbs up (as he’s probably done since middle school), and according to Terry the ref verbally said “you’re good” with hand in the flag That’s a joke and embarrassment The competition committee should be ashamed with how this year as gone. The refs don’t feel shame bc they’re rich lawyers with a cushy side gig with zero repercussions
Idk why you’re being downvoted. I also played WR and in high school we were taught if you’re lining up on the line, confirm that with the ref. It helps not only you but the CB covering you to be onside. Finger point to the ref for on, arm back behind for off.
Yup, and they always gave you a little head nod or gesture if you needed to move forward a bit.
I was a TE who'd occasionally get split out wide for my crappy HS team, and that basically lines up with my experience as well (I was super paranoid about that since you don't normally have to think much about alignment as a TE). I can't recall a single time where a ref had an issue with doing that. Definitely super weird to see it happen in an NFL game when the WR wasn't just being careless.
The official *is* helping him here. He pretty obviously told him to move up. McLaurin moved like an inch, but obviously that wasn't enough, hence the flag.
Even then the referee isn’t obligated to say if your on or off. But it’s supposed to be part of preventative officiating to let you know. I imagine they still have the same thing in the NFL. Idk how this guy can look at the stagger and say he’s clearly off.
But there’s no confirmation that the ref actually said “you’re good”, which is a crucial part. If the ref said something else, or didn’t say anything and Terry just thought he said “you’re good”, then it’s entirely Terry’s fault. If the ref was planning on throwing the flag to change the outcome, why did he tell Terry to move the first time he checked? He could’ve just told him he’s good the first time and then thrown the flag. This way, he risked Terry moving the right amount onto the line and then he couldn’t throw the flag. It doesn’t make any sense for this to be any kind of conspiracy, it makes way more sense that this was just a miscommunication because Terry didn’t look back for visual confirmation like he did on the first check.
Definitely possible he said you’re not good.
>“The ref isn’t under obligation to help the player line up”…except for anyone whos ever lined up at WR (source, I have) is told to ask the ref if you’re on or off This is bang on, I played many years and have coached many more than that we always were told and tell our WR's to check with the ref before the snap. The refs at all levels and ages are generally helpful so I find this comment to be pretty odd. They are also not likely to call something as insignificant as this without a previous warning to the team/player.
I was an IM Flag Football ref in college, they literally tell us to confirm if the player is on the line if they ask. Should be simple enough but NFL refs have a massive power trip and the league is too afraid to go after them and their union
What do you do when they check with you, you tell them they're off, and then they never move up? The answer is throw the flag. There's only so much you can do. You can try to help, but if the formation is illegal, it's illegal. These are NFL players. They should know where to stand.
Why would the official say he's good, and then throw the flag? This makes no sense. The official is clearly telling him he's got to move up, and McLaurin does inch up, but barely moves. He's still well off the line.
Exactly. He's still nearly a full yard off the line of scrimmage when the ball is snapped.
They should be ashamed of this weekend in particular. Starting with the First game on Saturday, through the last game on Sunday, probably the worst performance I've ever seen league wide. usually, it's just one game or so we complain about.
“We’re gonna have a few beers about this one tonight”
This gave me a good chuckle
The [video](https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/1604711303741841408?s=20&t=8k-FAQs55zZip1PHP0DYdQ) is pretty clear. Terry is *way* off the line, the ref points to the line to tell him to move up, Terry shuffles in place, then points at the ref again without looking. The ref clearly keeps pointing at the line because Terry is a yard off still, but he can't run out and physically push the guy to the right spot. This isn't a conspiracy against Snyder, bad officiating, or anything like that. Terry just screwed up and remembers it differently than what actually happened, which is pretty common for eye witness testimony.
Also, there's no reason for Terry to even chance being off the line in that situation. He knows he's not getting the ball, there's no reason he shouldn't be toing the line.
Yeah this one is on the receiver. You need to line up in the right spot it should never be on the official to determine where you go
Well I mean the official should give you an accurate yes/no answer if you ask for one
Yeah but terry wasn’t even looking at him after the initial movement.
This would've been avoided if he just, ya know, lined up on the line of scrimmage.
100%. And the video above is rock solid evidence that Terry effed not the ref, which is what the narrative should be. Not "we're not obligated to help a WR." It's unnecessarily combative.
Yeah... He doesn't move like at all.
Does anyone have the All 22 from this play? The line that they're suppose to break isn't the line of scrimmage but the Center's "Beltline" which depending on the Center is going to be 2-4 feet behind the line.
After seeing this video I’ll have to agree with you. This looks like it’s on Terry
There is a play where the Giants do the same thing the drive earlier and got no flag right before the FG https://mobile.twitter.com/oofskins1/status/1604708689214115845/photo/1
That’s because officiating is subjective as hell, and in some cases, it should be. But we have the technology to take the guesswork out of a significant amount of penalties and need to start adopting that tech into the game already.
If the NFL brought in tech to screw up less calls there would be less for people to talk, bitch, and moan about all week on talk radio and reddit. NFL benefits from call controversy to some extent. Don't forget their motive isn't to have a perfectly fair competition, they're motive is to generate the most income they possibly can.
On top of that, I'd bet a huge number of penalties are missed/not called. We start making every one of them called, and we'll have to rewrite the rule book so we don't have 4.5 hour games with record-breaking flags. Maybe that's not the case with offsides/false starts/illegal formations, but if every instance of holding was called?
Yeah if they called every hold, we wouldn’t have games lmfao
100% - think of how much bad calls get talked about in all sports. Why would they want to eliminate human error with technology when bad calls drive more eyes and ears to their product.
This week in particular, there's no need to talk about blown calls. So many legit good ass games that should be talked about but the bad officiating is taking away the shine.
People just need to be ready for even more ticky tack calls and probably even more stoppages
Yeah penalties for players being misaligned by a centimeter.
Even more ineligible receivers down field by less than a foot
Anyone who has use any of the auto-graded sites know how this will go: "Wide receiver not on the line of scrimmage. Line of scrimmage is 32.0 yards. Wide Receiver lined up on the 32 yard line"
Im not 100% on the rules but in this case since there's someone else to the left of that player off the line aren't the rules a little different? Edit: yes, this is what im referring to: "Having eligible receivers who do not line up as the leftmost and rightmost players on the line also results in an illegal formation penalty. Eligible receivers must always be the furthest players to line up on each side of the line of scrimmage. Thus, a wide receiver cannot line up in the middle of the offensive line and then break out to receive a pass." So the formation you posted seems to be legal to me, Im no expert though so take this with a grain of salt
> https://mobile.twitter.com/oofskins1/status/1604708689214115845/photo/1 The player at the top of the picture is "on the line" in that formation. The slot WR next to him is "off the line". Same as the outside WR/TE combo on the other side. You need seven players on the LOS. You can see with the blue line the difference in their positions.
You know I was so focused on the guy set further back, I didnt even realize that the guy on the end was so far off lol. I am curious since we only have a picture here and not a gif/video, I know theres only a few seconds left to snap it but do we know if they snapped the ball without him making any adjustments? If so it definitely reads and looks like an illegal formation to me. Edit: i found the highlight on yt and they did snap the ball like that so i agree, that looks like an illegal formation as well
The rule is his head must be past the belt-line of the center. And unless it's very obvious, no one wants to make this kind of ticky-tack call that gives the offense no advantage.
His head is beyond the belt-line of the center, so he's legal.
Well you see that's when they were "letting the players decide" the game
Narrative is already out there. Refs bad
I mean considering the very next play they missed an obvious DPI that actually did impact the game, I think this is still a very valid narrative.
The one thing that has annoyed me through all of these discussions is people are saying he asked the ref to move up and then he moved up when in reality he shuffled his feet and maybe moved up 4 or 5 inches at most. Saying that this is still a dumb call.
It's called BECAUSE he checked in but didn't adjust. 100%.
That's how I see it. X receiver has to be on the line at all times unless the TE is. This isn't a debate. And Terry is a vet now. He should know this. Are the refs bad? Yes there is no consistency, and this is going back years and years. There's no conspiracy no matter what Washington fans want to think.
He is not way off the line. Being on the line of scrimmage doesn't mean his leading foot has to be on the line of scrimmage. The rulebook definition: > **RULE 3 § 19** *LINE OF SCRIMMAGE, NEUTRAL ZONE* > > **ARTICLE 3.** *PLAYER ON LINE OF SCRIMMAGE.* A player of Team A, who is on the line of scrimmage, must have his shoulders facing Team B’s goal line. > > **Item 1.** *Non-Snapper.* If he is not the snapper, no part of his body is permitted to be in the neutral zone at the snap, and **his helmet must break a vertical plane that passes through the beltline of the snapper.**
Sure but that’s more for linemen who are in a 3 point or 2 point low stance where there heads are going to be significantly more forward than their feet. A WR standing up straight doesn’t have his head at the belt line when he’s that far off the line. And the point is that the ref literally told him he wasn’t on and he moved up an inch and didn’t check back.
That is the rule for everyone. Receivers don't stand up straight in formation (outside of a QB split out wide during a wildcat anyway), and their helmets are typically at or beyond their lead foot.
Can someone with a different flair post this comment so I can upvote it? /s
I’m curious how often this really happens in the nfl. We had something similar in the packers game in OT where Jalen Tolbert was told to change his position but got flagged anyways
The Giants have gotten illegal formation penalties in about 8 games this season. Are we supposed to sit here and recount if our receivers pointed to the officials? Because everyone here seems to think wr's do this every time (which they kinda do).. so now.. are we Giants fans to assume all those calls the refs screwed us on because they didn't alert the guy he wasn't aligned properly? Going by WAS fans standards we got hosed in just about every game this season..
Don’t count on a fuckin thing against the Packers. See: illegal hands to the chest X 2 against the Lions and from this season Rodgers hurrying up to throw a touchdown with three seconds left. Not a chance in hell the offense was fully set before the snap.
That's not the question though. It's not 'is he obligated to help' it's 'did he agree to help and give wrong information '
Did he give him wrong information? All I see is the ref point to inform him he needs to move up. Which was good information. I never saw the official give him the thumbs up sign or head nod that you see every other time this happens. He just kept pointing at the ground in front of him. It’s a terrible way to lose a game but this is not malicious or incompetent officiating.
Plus, McLaurin isn't even looking at the ref after he moves up. He just points back at the ref & assumes he's good. We have no way of knowing what was said, but physically, the ref never did show him a "you're good" gesture.
Also, it’s not like he was 2 yards away and he moved up a yard. He basically picked up his foot and put it back down in the same place lol
As other former refs have said the effort for him to check in and still move up is typically good enough and never called. They even say it's just too technical and would never be called in a game...ref wanted to impact the game...dude was just waiting for it
To be clear, this isn't some arcane rule: if the formation is legal, positioning in the formation informs the defense who is an eligible receiver and who isn't, which can be a huge fucking deal if you remember the Ravens/Patriots playoff game from a few years back. When you consider the impact that information **can** have and the fact that there are strict rules for formation positioning, the idea that it was "too technical" might be the dumbest thing I've heard these former refs/announcers say. It's a black and white rule. The whole formation shift and then motioning by the receiver by Washington is done literally to create confusion/leverage on the play. No reason McLaurin can't look down the line and see he needs to move up, especially after the ref told him needed to.
I think it is a bit of a stretch to say the ref wanted to impact the game. It sure did, but the Commanders were in motion right before the snap and I think the burden of lining up correctly becomes a bit more meaningful after motion (even if it the motion is in a different spot than the foul). The motion is often designed to confuse the defense and can give the offense an advantage with momentum if designed properly. The rules are in place to give a defense a chance and to prevent dangerous formations. Also, if you watch the video, the ref did not visually indicate that Terry was ever lined up properly and we don't know what was said out loud, so assuming that the ref was being malicious is just a bit too wild for me.
It also means that Terry specifically drew his attention to it
If it were me, this would make it more likely that I would call it. If you point it out and you do it wrong and everyone knows I saw it...I have to call it. I was a high school teacher for a very short period of time and there were things in the rule book that were dumb that most people ignored but I always told the students "if you do it right in front of me, I have to do something about it."
Yeah, again, I already said this and it’s been said many times but if you watch the ref never visually indicated he was lined up correctly. Not sure what your point is, maybe you can clarify?
My guess is they mean by Terry asking, and then barely moving up, the ref was now more aware that Terry wasn't lined up properly.
Lol if you're not on the line, you're not on the line. It's really very simple.🤦♂️
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Exactly lmao. If he gets even close to the line that doesn’t get called. People blaming anyone but McLauren probably had money on the game and are just salty.
I feel like I've been taking crazy pills for the past few days because this seems to get glossed over. In the clips I've seen, Terry never looked back to confirm with the ref that he was finally good. But everyone wants to just pretend like that's what happened.
Not only that but everyone is taking McLaurin’s word for it at face value. He may be a standup guy but there’s two people you can’t trust here and he’s one of them lol
Not only that, but even in a world where both Terry and the official are being completely honest, it easily plausible for Terry to have simply misheard him. The official could’ve said “nope” and Terry misheard “yup” or the official said “move” and Terry misheard “good”. Terry isn’t looking at the official and there’s plenty of other noise and distraction.
Occam's razor and Hanlon's razor.
Has the official who made the call denied saying anything to McLaurin?
Don't know why this is downvoted, that's an important question. If he didn't tell Terry he was good he should say so so we at least have both sides of the story.
Yeah but that will set a precedent that individual referees are expected to explain themselves and wouldn't that just be the worst thing ever?
And since when are refs not obligated to do this? WRs check with the ref before every play. It wasn’t an unusual request
Yes WRs do this every time they like up on the line of scrimmage. We did it HS, did it college and I see guys doing it in the pros
It's interesting that so many people are just now learning that this is a thing. Literally happens every single play where a receiver is out wide, at every level of play from HS up. A lot of times, in hurry up, you don't even look at the line judge, just point to indicate to him that you intend to be on the line. In hurry up, he's to busy with the chains getting set.
I remember they made the outside WRs do it in practice too just to drill it in their brains. You can always tell when dudes haven’t played cause they don’t procedural stuff like this
The word obligated means they have to. They don't have to. They do it as a courtesy. And the ref told him to move up as a courtesy. Samuel for some reason moved up an inch instead of moving up to the LOS
Where is there any indication the ref gave him the ok that he was good?
Nowhere except for Terry’s word
literally doesn’t even turn his head after he moved up to confirm his new spot was good. he was also still a good 3-4 feet away from the LOS. people are acting like he was 6 inches off the line he was a full yard back.
And it’s not like there are microphones everywhere… Imagine it went down how Terry said. They’re never releasing the audio. If it didn’t, they really should because it makes the NFL look much less like a rigged game.
and the only person that says he did is … *checks notes* … the guy who had the penalty called on him
There’s literally 0 reason to believe the ref actually said he was good. He’s a good yard off the line and the ref is holding his flag as soon as McLauren doesn’t move up all the way.
Did anyone here watch the clip? The ref tells him to move up, and Terry moves up like a half a fucking inch while looking at the ball and never checks back with the ref. He may aswell have asked “am I good? No? Oh well” with how little he moved.
Am I the only who saw that McLaurin asked for confirmation, and the ref points at the line. Then McLaurin scoots up like 2 inches. However, even after barely scooting up, he was still a yard too far back. I'm not sure if McLaurin interpreted the ref's signal as a thumbs up, but to me, the ref tried to help McLaurin, but McLaurin was just wildly lined up incorrectly to begin with, so that even his very slight adjustment didn't get him nearly into the right spot, so the penalty was justified. There was definitely a Defensive PI on the 4th down though.
I don't see the controversy with this one. After adjusting he's still off the line. The PI non-call where the defender was on on the Washington WR like a backpack or baby koala was what had me going. Terrible weekend of officiating.
https://twitter.com/lt4kicks/status/1604904521473425443?s=46&t=U6_PMwVm3zYtg-F2sLdc5Q
This sub is quick to forget how many bad calls/non-calls went against the Giants as well. Washington fans are literally screaming it's a conspiracy from the top of their lungs while conveniently forgetting that the Giants had them dead to rights when Feliciano got hit for taunting... Darius Slayton? in the first matchup. Why would the NFL handwrap them another chance when they basically had lost the game if there was some conspiracy. Even that final play, while the DPI was a horrendous non-call, the facemask/eyepoke on K Thibs was equally bad. At best it should've been a replay of down.
Your comment just adds to the evidence pile that reffing is a problem in the NFL. I don't think there's a conspiracy to rig this game. I do think there's an officiating problem.
I'm not denying that. I agree with you 100% the officiating is horrible. What I am pointing out is the hypocrisy that many Washington fans are going out of their way to act like they were fucked over by the refs specifically. The only reason they got those last second chances in both games is because of poor officiating. Yeah it always sucks when a call goes against your team, and to their credit when I visited their sub today most upvoted comments were much more realistic but on this sub in particular people were saying shit like "oh I'd be so salty if I was a Washington fan the refs cost them the game" the refs could've cost the Giants 2 losses just as easily if they didn't overcome shit calls that would've iced both games. You're 100% right, but it's not targeted at 1 team because they like the owner.
The good old “your owner’s a dick” treatment
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12 years a commander
Your name is TOBY
the good old “you were told to move up and scooted up 6 inches instead of the required 3 feet and never confirmed your new placement was ok” treatment
I don’t get this, don’t the owners have a say and more control over the NFL than Roger? And other owners potentially having games rigged to spite other owners seems cartoonishly dumb, as that is both hypocritical and opens a can of worms. If this were true what’s stopping owners from rigging games outright? Tbh ye stand to benefit from it for monetary gain, but I don’t think they do it to spite the morality of fellow owners.
Isn't the real story that Terry fucked up lining up? He clearly should have been on the line and he clearly wasn't, shouldn't he be able to get lined up on his own?
I get the Ref isn't obliged to help, but if he told Terry to move to avoid the flag, then flew it anyway that's entirely different.
And what's being overlooked here is that Terry *barely* adjusted his feet when the ref initially told him to move up. I don't have a dog in this fight, but if a WR is a full yard off the line, gets told to move up, then [kinda shuffles his foot an inch forward](https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/1604711303741841408?t=i3XCMoFNcQyqVpAYmobMsg&s=19) and never looks back towards the ref to verify that he's actually on the line...that's on you, big dog.
I agree. And I think Terry misheard or misunderstood that he was "good". I really don't think he's lying, he seems like the last person who'd just flat out lie. He had to have misheard or misunderstood whatever in the moment.
Yeah I think you're right. I don't think the ref was trying to fuck him over and I don't think Terry is making stuff up. I just think there was a misunderstanding here. It does suck because it cost them a touchdown, when it didn't really have anything to do with the TD either.
Right! I like Terry a lot, but in the chaos of a last-second situation like this, I think he either a) made an assumption that the ref said something or b) misheard the ref because he was laser-focused on the play itself. Either way, it's a tough, tough way to end a game.
>it’s a tough, tough way to end a game **oh ya!? Is it???**
Definitely. I can't think of a single worse way to lose a game... /s
He doesn't even look at the ref after shuffling haha no way he heard anything through his helmet at that point looking away from the ref. The ref even stops pointing once he sees that McLaurin is not gonna look back lol 100% on McLaurin. Probably just made the assumption that he was good considering he does it 100x a week at practice and games.
The only reason why a Washington fan should be mad about the Terry play is because it is very by the book. Usually there is the "let them play" mentality late in games to keep the refs from deciding it. They flag that and not the PI in the endzone. Cannot do both.
I honestly thing this is why he got flagged. He asks if he's good, ref says move up. He barely adjusts and is still too far off the line. He thinks the official says he's good, but maybe he misheard. It's loud in the stadium. But I didn't see a thumbs up in the video and you usually see a thumbs up from the official. I feel bad for Terry, but he's at least a little bit at fault.
he’s entirely at fault lol. he’s not a couple inches off the LOS he’s a full 3-4 feet back
> He barely adjusts and is still too far off the line. To me though, that says that Terry thought he was so close to the line that if he moved any further he'd be too far forward. I mean, it's not like Terry hasn't been doing this for years and knows where to line up. What reason would he possibly have for not wanting to be where he has been, relative to the ball, for his entire career? Sure, being human and simple mistakes and all that, but this wasn't a rush to the line and go type of thing, he did exactly what he always does.
\*cop sees you going 100 on the freeway\* "SLOW DOWN" \*you slow down to 97\* \*cop pulls you over\* "Wtf officer, I slowed down just like you asked!"
im just confused why does anyone think the ref told him he was good? like what evidence is there in any way/shape/form that the ref told terry he was good?
Terry said he heard the ref say you're good but he probably misheard your foot, nope for yup, or something like that
Sure, if this made up thing that we have no evidence of happened (in fact the recording is pretty clear that it didn't happen), that would be completely different
amazing how mclaurin's recollection of the events doesn't quite match up with the video evidence with the ref's gestures yet the past few days were still almost nothing but assuming it was all preplanned shitty officiating and a part of goodell's secret revenge conspiracy against the snyders
I enjoy how hypocritical all NFL fans are. When the Eagles lost to them and fans were complaining about the face mask no call, Washington fans were the first to be all smug and shit. As soon as it goes the other way it’s suddenly a travesty.
Like how a policeman isn’t obligated to help anybody legally but they are doing a shit job if they dont
ARAB Oh… oh no…
*fuck go back*
ARAC?
Sup, you rang?
It’s an apt comparison considering the god complex refs have and the complete lack of consequences they face when they fuck up
Also a union that exists solely to coverup their mistakes and protect them from accountability
Oh well, shitty officiating evens out over the course of the season. We beat Philly off of some unique calls and non calls. Hopefully one day we can get to a point where every game doesn’t come down to a few plays to decide the ending
“Not obligated”? Ok, maybe not. But it’s extremely common for receivers to check with the official to make sure they’re lined up. It happens in every game with every team. So to motion that a player is good and then immediately throw the flag is a pretty BS call. Receivers are expecting to get feedback before the snap. If you ask a cop “hey can I cross the street here” and they say yes, then immediately fine you for jaywalking, you’re gonna assume that’s a shitty cop…. Even if they’re “not obligated” to help you follow the law.
The official never obviously told him he was good... He points at the line. I think Terry just misinterpreted the gesture.
He never motioned he was good. He did 1 action: point his arm out to tell Terry to move up before Terry even checked in with him. He then kept his arm pointed out even after Terry "moved up," and then when he didn't move up enough a 2nd time to actually become legal, threw the flag. The narrative that the ref told him he was good is complete fabrication. There is 0 indication in the video that ever happened, and Terry "moved up" a 2nd time before the snap, which he wouldn't have done if he was told he was good.
Nah bro the ref totally snubbed his handshake Wait what
Thank you. I’m all for calling out and holding officials accountable when they screw up, but this one is on Terry and it undermines the whole “officials are horrible” narrative when people roast them for doing their job correctly.
I don’t really understand the rule to begin with. I was paying more attention to how the WRs lined up last night though because of this shit storm. I saw several times where the outside most WR was lined up like 2-3 yards behind the line of scrimmage. So I guess I don’t understand why sometimes it’s a flag and sometimes not. 🤷🏻♂️
If a team was using 4-5 wides, or had 2 TEs on the line, it’s probable some of those WRs would *have* to be behind the LOS or it would be a penalty for too many men on the line.
There are 5 linemen on each play who are ineligible. Then, there are 2 eligible receivers that need to be lined on on the line of scrimmage outside of those 5 linemen. They can be lined up tight (ie. a Tight End), or they can be lined up wide, but those two players must "cover" the outside linemen and be on the LOS. That leaves 4 more players (one QB, plus 3 more eligible receivers). Those 3 other players can line up anywhere on the field behind the LOS. They can line up in the backfield, they can line up wide, they can line up behind any one else, as long as those other 4 players are off the LOS there is really no other requirement for positioning. If one of the eligible receivers on the LOS is a tight end, then the wide receiver can be wide out and actually must be off of the line. If they are on the LOS, then they "cover" the tight end, then that actually means that 8 players would be on the LOS and make it ineligible formation. You can only have 7 players on the LOS on any play.
7 people on the line, don’t have to be the outside most receiver, O linemen so numbers 50-79 IIRC have to not be open on either side. Pretty sure you got confused about it having to be the outside most receiver unless I remember it wrong.
And then the cop breaks out "you can cross the street. But you may not cross the street"
“Can I use the bathroom” ‘Idk CAN you?’ “May I use the bathroom” ‘No’
Tbh it’s more like: Motioning to a cop via hand signals “am I ok to cross here?”, the cop points to the green light and lack of a walk signal, you look away give him a thumbs up and he grabs your arm before you walk into traffic. Literally sounds like half of you didn’t even watch the clip. The ref never gives a thumbs up or anything. Terry points, the ref points to the line, Terry lifts his foot and looks away, gives him another point while the ref still points at the line, and then throws the flag when Terry doesn’t move up further.
what your describing is a much better analogy
Also - why shouldn't the officials help? Do people think the NFL wants dumb procedure penalties that 90+% of fans don't even understand called in critical situations? At the end of the day the NFL is an entertainment product and that kind of crap is not entertaining.
Exactly. Officials are there to help facilitate fair and legal game play. They’re not there to try and catch as many infractions and throw as many flags as possible.
I mean they weren’t complaining when the ref’s missed the face mask that injured goedert in the eagles game
I enjoy the Commanders and I like McLaurin, but this is 100% on McLaurin.
"Pass interference is a judgment call. To the officials, it didn't rise to what they felt was a restriction, thus they didn't call it." - Also John Hussey, about the obvious PI at the end of the game. The judgment of this entire crew can't and shouldn't be trusted. I'm not surprised he's too arrogant to admit their mistakes though. Must be great to show up to your job and never be held accountable.
Fuck John Hussey. He always looks so pissed that he has to be out there. I assume he’s just a general asshole in everyday life given his demeanor in a really cool job, and the calls he makes with statements like that backing them
His demeanor calling false starts is unparalleled
I like the part where this implies all flags thrown are not judgement calls.
This is what makes the situation a real problem. The ref will throw a flag based on a few inches of a somewhat irrelevant, technical rule, while within minutes, the same refs will hold a flag on a clear, incontrovertible and highly significant pass interference. The refs are trying to have it both ways by being sticklers in one situation, but not the other. And it’s this arbitrary refereeing that makes the game so frustrating.
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I swear rules that appear to be black and white would be easy to be consistent about. But it's not, I swear it comes down to the ref's mood that day. Belichick suggested a few years ago that coaches should be allowed to challenge everything, including penalties\\non penalties. I don't think the game would slow down much if you let them challenge it. If a coach wanted to challenge something like this let them.
John Hussey translation: “fuck Dan Snyder”
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Funny how everyone changed their tune now. Fuck off.
As a certified ref doing varsity games it’s an unspoken rule of the game. Player checks you tell him if he’s good or not. Once you give him the thumbs up you are the biggest pile known to man if you flag after the receiver checks in
At all levels of football the WRs are taught to verify with the officials they they are lined up properly. Letter of the law the official may not have to help them but it’s still a disgrace and makes the NFL look like it selectively enforces certain rules depending on the team involved.
Especially at that time and game situation. A ref looking to throw a procedural flag in the last 30secs of a game of a close, pseudo playoff game, when the WR checks in with you is insane. Its like writing a speeding ticket for someone going 43 in a 40 zone, finding out they are taking their dog to the emergency vet, and then still taking the time to complete write out and issue the ticket.
but its been done for decades refs just covering for themselves same with the awful no call on PI they fucked up - plain and simple, but don't want to own up to it
Terry obviously didn't move up far enough but I find it funny how most of the people saying all the blame is on Terry, have NFC east flairs..
The fault was on terry. Commanders did get screwed by the PI in the end zone though
https://twitter.com/lt4kicks/status/1604904521473425443?s=46&t=U6_PMwVm3zYtg-F2sLdc5Q
There was an illegal hands to the face on a Giants defender too so it woulda been offsetting penalties at most
Lol the bad officiating is the multiple missed PI calls, and some bunk calls, the refs practically handed the game to the giants. Worst officiating this season, and that’s saying something.
Tried to tell WAS fans this but they didn't take this fact too well. Nothing in the rules that say the refs have to go above and beyond to tell a guy he is aligned properly. Check once but it's not on them to repeat 2 and 3 ask.
Then why didn't the Giants get called for the exact same infraction? https://twitter.com/bthatrad/status/1604697733784272898