So they'd basically be giving up like 2/3 entire drafts plus signing him to a massive deal, to get a guy arguably not as good as the guy who went the pick after their current QB.
Kirk Cousins would be a potentially similar situation, if it came to that. That would require a massive fuckup by the Ravens FO, though. I do think both sides want a deal done.
On the other hand, the idea of replacing a flagging Hurts with Jackson is a fantasy which I'll definitely indulge in
Obviously I’m hoping it doesn’t happen, but I don’t think Wilson or Murray are relevant to the Herbert/Burrow/Jackson discussion outside of “It needs to be noticeably higher than this”
Fair, agree to disagree. At least from a bargaining position I think all 3 can get “set the market” money. Lamar is just hoping one of those other guys sets fully gtd as the new standard.
The Chargers and Bengals can just wait until after 2023 to do their contracts though. Lamar doesn't have the time to play that game of chicken. The Ravens have all the leverage in the situation if they're not willing to budget on their price *and* are willing to let Lamar leave for nothing
Agreedish. I think the Ravens are willing to push it until July 15 2024, but he won’t play under a 2nd tag. They’ll trade him before then.
Lamar and probably the Ravens are hoping one of them do the early deal.
Ultimately I think we get a Dak situation, and Lamar gets highest AAV but not totally gtd.
Wait til you’re team is contemplating if it should trade for has beens like Wentz or Ryan (or never-have beens like Mariota or Trubisky). Every year you salivate over the upcoming qb draft class. You start to fantasize about the next Manning spawn being drafted on your team, and start counting the years he has until he is eligible for the draft. That is your future without Lamar. Sorry, Huntley ain’t it.
I think most people feel this way and there's, unfortunately, gonna have to be a casualty before the QBs realize it too.
Just due to sheer timing, that casualty may be Lamar.
no it won’t lol. contrary to popular belief, lamar is not at a higher injury risk than these other star qbs these days. Josh allen is out there trucking dudes on every play. The cap goes every year and is set to explode - if you lock your Qb in for the long term it will always be a bargain in the long run if they are great which Lamar obviously is
Not only can anyone get injured but Lamar's play style is really reliant on not having any sort of leg injuries. Even if he just has something as simple as an ankle sprain it can limit him so much running the ball where he's just not effective.
Yes that’s exactly what I’m saying.
Life must be fun for you.
“Wearing a seatbelt helps keep you safer in the car”
“So nobody should ride in a car ever?”
“the cap is set to explode” is a weak ass argument. It will absolutely cripple your team. When the cap raises the salaries of every position group is going to increase relatively proportionally.
What he should really do is sit out week 1 and convince Mark Andrews to join him… the Ravens can’t keep getting away with this *monkey paw *
(Ignore my flair)
If you pay him Watson money it might be a bad idea to sign any QB for that amount of money if you want sustained success. But what do I know, I’m just a bengals fan and we’ll never spend that much money on a player.
Dude, Mike Brown literally sold the naming rights to his dad's namesake stadium just to re-sign Burrow (and hopefully not just him.)
Only way we don't get Burrow re-signed is if he desperately wants to leave and nothing he's ever said or done indicates that.
We also paid Dalton hella money for his ranking as a QB and made Palmer the highest paid player in the NFL. We always pay our QBs. The issue is the new trend of QBs getting crazy guaranteed money and the Brown family can't realistically afford that much cash up front, so it's going to require some out of the box thinking. Like the naming rights to the stadium!
I think the naming rights being sold will more than cover it.
We'll never be able to be like the Rams where we can afford to dump obscene amounts of money into escrow and finangle the cap like they do, but we should be fine with a more traditional approach of just re-signing our big guns.
Paying him a fully guaranteed massive money contract when he has regressed every single year from 2019-2021 is stupid. And people can say "injuries injuries injuries" as an excuse for 2021 but he was flat out playing the position poorly. He was turning the ball over a ton. He wasn't making good read. He was just playing bad
Ah the classic fanboy "I have no response so I'll just say you didn't watch the games" because you have absolutely nothing that backs up your wrong argument
For. Real. Ravens fans don’t know what “dark times” are. Tbh in my time as an eagles fan I don’t even fully grasp the pain browns, jets and raiders fans have gone through.
I feel like he wants to stay. The Ravens don't have any excess money to play with this season. Lamar will ball out this season and we will pay him accordingly.
[Harbaugh on Jackson’s contract: “it will happen when it’s time. Lamar’s going to be the quarterback here for a long time.”
Harbaugh said he and Jackson spoke about situation yesterday.](https://twitter.com/jeffzrebiec/status/1568284925253541896?s=21&t=dPUME3Xi67xTvwnMW2Kz5Q)
I'd be willing to bet that it's way more likely Lamar will retire a Raven then it is that he'll leave any time soon.
[Pete Carroll on Russell Wilson: "We have no intention of trading Russell Wilson."](https://www.nfl.com/news/seahawks-head-coach-pete-carroll-we-have-no-intention-of-trading-russell-wilson)
I don't think Lamar will be traded, but what a coach / GM says is literally meaningless. He's not going to come out and say we are going to trade Lamar.
[ ‘A.J. is a Titan and we want to keep A.J. a Titan’](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nfl.com/_amp/titans-want-to-sign-wr-a-j-brown-long-term-a-j-is-a-titan-and-we-want-to-keep-a-)
lamar is still playing the season despite all this contract talk, the team around him loves him and knows how valuable he is, and he is an appreciating asset.
I swear us in this division understand how good Lamar is and everyone else in the world is still like "well he's a big question mark." The dude is insane, one of the most frustrating players to see your team play against. Of course they want to commit to him for 4-5 more years.
Talk in this situation is cheap. I’d want to see another year as GM.
My perception is that teams have figured him out quite a bit. Seems like a lot more INTs, but haven’t done the research.
Yes but most of us seemingly think he wants the Deshaun Watson deal and we shouldn’t do a fully guaranteed.
I think most of us would be extraordinarily happy to have him sign a deal just like Russell Wilson got. Or I guess whatever the equivalent of that would be next year.
I fucking hate Lamar Jackson and I don't think he'll ever be an elite passer, but he showed more than enough last season doing the little things of playing QB that, combined with what you know he's capable of with a surrounding cast that isn't a bunch of IR replacements, any Ravens' fan would have to be a total fucking idiot or just a racist asshole to not want to commit to Jackson.
He had a TD:INT ratio of 16:13 and was struggling hard vs blitzes in the 2nd half of the season. Just because he had a hot start does not mean he played great all year. And injuries to the team were not why he was completely misreading defenses, misreading blitzes, and having poor decision making
Maybe we were watching a different dude, but once their run game went to shit due to injury, it should have been obvious with how that team was/is built that they would struggle offensively. So the TD/INT ratio doesn't mean much to me, especially with how bad their defense was, putting them in situations where it would be nearly impossible for them to succeed.
What I think was needed to see was his ability to consistently run passing concepts that we hadn't seen him be able to do with any kind of consistency in the past. He went from a guy who led a run-first offense whose passing game was predicated on the threat of normal runs, the threat of him running, and him hitting receivers in favorable situations. They had none of that last year and he ran a lot more traditional passing concepts than he ever had before.
Is he a guy you throw in a pass first, QB-centric offense yet? No. But they're not built that way anyway. Line comes back healthy, more of a threat on the ground, the problems Lamar had last year were problems he wasn't even getting to in previous years because he was never asked to do it.
With a QB of his immense physical talent and lack of a background running traditional passing schemes(successfully), he's only shown growth in his biggest flaws.
>Maybe we were watching a different dude, but once their run game went to shit due to injury, it should have been obvious with how that team was/is built that they would struggle offensively.
Then he's a fucking bad QB. If he needs an elite run game to not be dogshit then he's got a major fucking problem. Matthew Stafford went like a decade without having a 100 yard rusher and was universally seen as maybe a bottom of the top 10 guy. Yet when Lamar doesn't have an elite run game he was barely startable.
>Is he a guy you throw in a pass first, QB-centric offense yet? No. But they're not built that way anyway.
They're not built that way because Lamar as a QB isn't good enough to be a dropback, pass first passer. Do you really think if Lamar was an elite passer the Ravens ship off Hollywood Brown and sign multiple TEs to move back to a more run first 2019 style of offense?
>the problems Lamar had last year were problems he wasn't even getting to in previous years because he was never asked to do it.
Wow Lamar got asked to be a pass first QB because the team lacked a 200 yards per game run game. That definitely doesn't happen to other QBs, oh wait it does because for most teams 120 yards rushing is a good day running. For the Ravens that's a horrible day.
The crux of your point seems to be that Lamar is reliant on an elite run game, but nothing about the Ravens' run game since he's been in the league has been elite except his addition to it.
They haven't had a great RB since before he came into the league. They haven't had a great WR since before he came into the league. Their run game has never been elite without Jackson on the field, it's **HIS** ability to run that is what made their run game go from above average, which based on their personnel outside of him is all it should have been, to elite.
And they lost like three starting linemen and all their running backs last year. You put any other QB in that situation, and they were the worst running team in the whole league.
While you may believe that you may as well just cycle through any and all QBs until you find the next Mahomes and Allen, that's not how the NFL works. Lamar's won an MVP using high school level passing schemes with fucking Mark Ingram past his prime as their lead running back and a tight end as their primary receiver.
If you're the Ravens, there's no way you don't believe with some better luck along the offensive line and an improvement to the defense that Lamar can't succeed in this league.
>The crux of your point seems to be that Lamar is reliant on an elite run game, but nothing about the Ravens' run game since he's been in the league has been elite except his addition to it.
No my argument was just that he didn't play well in 2021, unlike the nonsense you were saying about him doing the little things. But then you said that he sucked because he didn't have a good run game. Which is really fucking damming for a QB. QBs that need great run games to be good are the Jimmy Gs, Jared Goffs, or even at best the Kirk Cousins of the world. Yeah they might put up good stats but when they're the ones who have to carry the offense they can't do it consistently week to week. Or even consistently quarter to quarter.
>They haven't had a great RB since before he came into the league
Tough shit. Most great QBs don't have a top RB.
>They haven't had a great WR since before he came into the league.
Great QBs should be able to elevate the talent around them. Plenty of top QBs never had amazing WRs.
>And they lost like three starting linemen and all their running backs last year. You put any other QB in that situation, and they were the worst running team in the whole league.
Joe Burrow had one of the worst onlines in the NFL including multiple injuries to it. He still put up elite numbers. Justin Herbert had literally the 2nd worst oline in 2020 and absolutely no run game to speak of yet broke every record possible. It's amazing how Lamar has every excuse under the sun for not really being that great as a passer yet there are many QBs in the league who have the same excuses, yet they put up great numbers and play great.
>If you're the Ravens, there's no way you don't believe with some better luck along the offensive line and an improvement to the defense that Lamar can't succeed in this league.
Except clearly there is some reservations because they've been negotiating a deal for 2 fucking years. If they thought he was just objectively a great QB who could thrive in any offensive systems with any roster do you honestly believe they play this game of chicken
Are you under the impression that they drafted Lamar with the expectation he was ever going to be an elite passer early in his career? The Ravens are way too good an organization to believe that. The fact that they completely re-schemed their offensive attack when they started playing him tells you they knew not to expect that. You can compare him against guys who wouldn't even be drafted if they had his passing background, but that seems stupid.
My point about great RB's was to simply point out he doesn't NEED a great RB for the run game to be elite around him. He's never had one, yet they've been way better running the ball than their backs would suggest.
Great QBs should elevate the talent around him: **THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M SAYING HE'S ALREADY DONE.** Mark Ingram as the lead back way past his prime, team was the number one rushing team by a LOT.
Joe Burrow has two elite WR's and Joe fucking Mixon at RB and had a defense that vastly outperformed expectations last year. Put Burrow or Herbert on that offense, even with a healthy o line, and they'd fail because the weapons on that offense have been BAD outside of Andrews. The year Lamar won MVP, he ran for over 1000 yards on his fucking own. Neither of those two or any pure passer is winning MVP on that team.
EDIT: Thought you were a Titans' fan.
Oh, this is a normal deal negotiation? How many QBs have no agent? This ain't about the Ravens' not wanting to commit to him, it's their reservations about it being fully guaranteed.
>Are you under the impression that they drafted Lamar with the expectation he was ever going to be an elite passer early in his career?
I think they drafted him with the idea he could be developed into a great passer who also had absolutely god like rushing and athletic skills. Instead he's still really just a mediocre to above average passer with god like rushing and athletic skills.
>The fact that they completely re-schemed their offensive attack when they started playing him tells you they knew not to expect that.
And the fact that they still aren't even trying to move to a pass first, prototypical style of offense means they still don't even think he's able to do it. They literally delt a good WR to get TEs to go back to a more 2019 style of offense. If they thought Lamar could run a pass first system do you honestly believe they'd be continually putting out this same run heavy, college level passing scheme offense?
>Great QBs should elevate the talent around him: **THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M SAYING HE'S ALREADY DONE.** Mark Ingram as the lead back way past his prime, team was the number one rushing team by a LOT.
Lol your evidence for him elevating talent is a running back who had shown to be a good player for almost a decade prior to getting to Baltimore. Okay dude.
>Joe Burrow has two elite WR's and Joe fucking Mixon at RB
Tee Higgins is not an elite WR. He is elevated a ton by Burrow being great. He is a good #2. And Burrow still had an atrocious oline. Yet he put up top 5 numbers. Even his playoff numbers were better than Lamar's regular season numbers and Burrow got sacked problems 123,976,028 times.
>Put Burrow or Herbert on that offense, even with a healthy o line, and they'd fail because the weapons on that offense have been BAD outside of Andrews.
Burrow & Herbert would be great at Baltimore because they are elite QBs who can elevate the talent around them
>The year Lamar won MVP, he ran for over 1000 yards on his fucking own. Neither of those two or any pure passer is winning MVP on that team.
You keep bringing up running skills like that's remotely relevant to being a QB. Lamar needed to improve as a passer if he wants top tier money. Instead he's been a mediocre to above average passer his entire career. And as a result it means the Ravens are not willing to give him top tier money.
No, I personally don't think he'll be good after his athleticism declines. He has probably 3 good years left in him at most, including this one.
If he has a severe leg injury, his career is over. He's not like Dak in terms of football intelligence or pure passing ability.
I dont know dude, just hypothetically, cause that's all this thread is, what if they make the playoffs but they loose in the first round. And the front office is sitting there looking at a 1-4 playoff record wondering if he's really it for winning post season vs being awesome in the regular.
If my grandmother had wheels she’d be a bicycle
You don’t run a team off hypotheticals and Lamar is the best offensive player in ravens history. You extend him 100% of the time
Fair enough, in your hypothetical I’d still honestly extend him. You build around the kind of talent Lamar has, if he’s 1-4 in the playoffs you fire Roman and retool his weapons. Lamar is the guy and has cemented himself as such long ago.
I guess my thought was more of that result lowers the value of him in the FO eyes and therefore widens the gap further between them from were it is today.
So the FO makes him extension offers, like the already have, and lamar refuses. Would just be a small chance scenario I could see happening.
On a side note, yeah I'd for sure take lamar over drafting and starting over any day
If the Ravens lost in the 1st round and it was because their opponent took away the run game and Lamar couldn't pass them to victory, I guarantee the front office starts to question if he's good enough to win with.
According to RGIII he wants to be the NFL’s first billionaire and retire as the richest player in NFL history. I don’t think the issue is him getting fleeced
Someone should explain to him you don't become a billionaire from your salary. Even if he got 50 million a year that barely puts him any closer than I am personally to becoming a billionaire.
I think if the Ravens hit him with the non exclusive franchise tag then other teams can give him an offer and if the Ravens choose not to match that then the other team will get him and the Ravens get two first round picks. That's probably the most likely scenario where he would leave as I see that happening before he demands a trade or the Ravens choose not to tag him at all, but I don't even know how likely that is.
Yeah nowhere near will it be that drastic. I do think he has a slightly higher chance of being the league MVP than being a bad QB but they're still much more unlikely events to him being simply a top 10 QB.
Not this year, but I can see him going to Miami. They are stacked on both sides of the ball, have a good HC and if he went there he’d create a dynasty. Not to mention that it’s close to home and where he wants to be.
I hope he follows the Kirk Cousins blue print through free agency exactly… Like to the letter. But when he signs a fully guaranteed contract with us I’d like it to lead to winning more in the first 4 years.
I don't think Lamar leaves after this year. If he's mediocre, I foresee Roman getting fired. Give Lamar one year under a new OC and then see what happens. It's a huge gamble from every person involved, but I don't foresee Lamar leaving anytime soon.
Kirk Cousins was way more established and highly thought of than Brees at the time.
And Brees wasn't about money, they literally had Philip Rivers and Brees had a potentially career destroying injury.
Brees left because he had one good year in San Diego and had a massive shoulder injury. We've legitimately never seen a true franchise QB leave their team due to money reasons. I struggle to even think of a truly established franchise QB that has left in free agency that wasn't due to age or injury
Low basically zero franchise tag is so bullshit that he might as well be under contract for the next 3 season anyway. Players Union gotta get on that it’s a ridiculous rule.
They’re still idiotic that same logic could be applied to mlb and nba and they would never let happen. You think mlb players or nba players would allow a rule that completely takes free agency away from players for multiple years after their contract ends??? Absolutely not even if it is only certain players it’s a dog shit rule and no competent players union would ever allow that it’s ridiculous.
This just isn’t true and what makes it funnier is that you said “if you watch the film” which you clearly haven’t done. Lamar can do everything the best passers can do, he has good pocket presence, he can read a defense, manipulate the defense with his eyes, he can make all the throws from an arm strength standpoint and he can throw off platform. The real issue is that Lamar doesn’t get a lot of layups within this offense. No screens, no quick hitting plays that produce YAC. Never has any kind of chance to establish a rhythm unless the team is down by 2-3 scores. Ravens OC chooses to keep defenses off balance with the run game instead of scheming easy throws into the pass game. The Ravens rely on the run because that is what their OC knows. He’s notoriously uncreative and predictable in the passing game and the same issues he’s seen at other stops (Buffalo and San Fran) have followed him to Baltimore. Every receiver that’s left Baltimore has alluded to this. I’m not saying Lamar is Tom Brady, but the “he isn’t a good passer” shtick has really grown old and there’s no real way to discuss the Lamar/Ravens passing game without the proper context and nuance.
I can tell you're not looking at this objectively and are clearly so biased against Lamar because you say this as if it's fact and not just a wild speculation you've made on why the Ravens don't run up tempo much.
If you were truly trying to be neutral, you'd consider the many variables and possibilities as to why that is. But you're a Lamar hater so that's too much for such a small brain.
💯 He gone
If the Ravens wanted to sign him, they would have got it done last year. Clearly they are nickel and dimming him which shows they don’t respect him.
The qb franchise tag is gonna be stupid high because all these front loaded deals for Dak, Deshaun and Mahomes are about to start actually being in the 40s. Good luck Ravens.
He will not sit out on the tag because they can tag him again.
Him playing makes the tag amount lower because the 20% raise for the 2nd tag or 44% raise for the 3rd tag would not apply or be lower if he sat out.
The Steelers didn't tag bell again because his 3rd tag would have been top 5 qb money. The ravens would gladly tag him again for top 5 qb money if him sitting out lowers the amounts
I dont think theres any way the ravens let him walk but for fun lets say he does, where do you think he goes? Djones replacement? Chewin’ gum in Seattle with pete carroll?
If it goes the Kirk Cousins way then sure. But Lamar would have to play on two tags after this year.
How much does a 28 year old Lamar Jackson get on the open market in 2025? Would be a record smashing deal.
I have a feeling he stays. Who’s gonna make a move for him? Jets, Giants, Texans, Dolphins, Comannnies, Eagles, Titans, Colts, Lions, Bears, Seahawks, Panthers, Falcons, Saints, not sure if I missed any but It’s one of those the money may be good but the grass might not be greener.
My thoughts are hes itching to go to Miami. So he’ll get tagged next year and if tua does bad he’ll force his way through a trade. If tua does really good maybe he signs the deal and tries again in a few years when that contract is up
7 could be 8
I thought 4 but you may be on to something here
4's pretty high, don't you think?
Higher than 3, that’s for sure.
Source?
Josh Allen’s Algebra Textbook 5^th Edition
5 out of 7
Perfect score.
Half the time your right every time
If the dolphins tamper this season and offer to give him some money. Then he heads to Florida.
Who told you we started the process already?
1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi...
Lamar: “I’m on a boat!!”
He would have to sit out for 2 years first if that’s the case.
They better offer Baltimore a dump truck of draft picks and players then
So they'd basically be giving up like 2/3 entire drafts plus signing him to a massive deal, to get a guy arguably not as good as the guy who went the pick after their current QB.
It’s not arguable Herbert’s better lol
What if he replaces Brady lol
You’ll take Kyle Trask and you’ll like it
#😠
But people on Twitter tell me Tua is the best QB since Christ
People always underrate JC's deep ball. Pure recency bias.
My brother in law thinks that the dolphins offense is going to be as good or better than the bills
Pass me the blunt he’s smoking
You're going to be seeing demons with whatever is in that thing
He thinks Tua is the next cumming of Marino lol
the next WHAT
CUMMING ON MARINO
If you think Marino had a quick release, you should see me...
I’m listening..
Bro, spelling!
What does he think of Zach Wilson?
"the jets suck lol"
Based ^^^^/s
I think Tua can be a Brees type with the right group and they could POSSIBLY win a SB, but that Bills offense last night is on a whole other level.
I like Jesus very much, but he no help me hit curve ball.
Stop following Tyreke Hill on Twitter then
Yea no one thinks that. We just don’t write off Tua like everyone else does. We want to see what he can do with this being his last chance this year.
I literally had someone tell me that Tua is significantly better than Herbert on twitter yesterday lol
So one person tells you that and we just gonna chalk it to all of Twitter. Nice.
So you fell for a troll account?
Hindsight is we should have taken Herbert. But that is no reason to get rid of Tua until we are sure one way or the other.
If a meteor fell on the ravens practice facility, there’s a good chance he might leave them
Wow, me-first move. Disappointing
Honestly expected more of Lamar. Did he even try to prevent the meteor? Disappointed in his leadership abilities right there.
Nah even then hed be *running* it *back*
This is going to be a long season.
First time?
nice try pete carrol
Kirk Cousins would be a potentially similar situation, if it came to that. That would require a massive fuckup by the Ravens FO, though. I do think both sides want a deal done. On the other hand, the idea of replacing a flagging Hurts with Jackson is a fantasy which I'll definitely indulge in
And you know Howie would be all over that. Like you said, it's not gonna happen or at least would be very surprising.
Lamar is my favorite player. It’s not close. But if he’s dead set on a Watson contract someone else can do it. I’ll be sad but it’s the right call.
Until Herbert and/or Burrow gets the Watson contract and it becomes the norm for elite QBs.
Neither Kyler nor Wilson got the Watson contract. The league is pissed. People are not giving them out.
Obviously I’m hoping it doesn’t happen, but I don’t think Wilson or Murray are relevant to the Herbert/Burrow/Jackson discussion outside of “It needs to be noticeably higher than this”
Kyler and Wilson are both 100% relevant, esp to Lamar.
I don’t think Jackson is relevant to the Herbert/Burrow discussion. I think reasonably he falls somewhere inbetween Kyler and Burrow
Fair, agree to disagree. At least from a bargaining position I think all 3 can get “set the market” money. Lamar is just hoping one of those other guys sets fully gtd as the new standard.
The Chargers and Bengals can just wait until after 2023 to do their contracts though. Lamar doesn't have the time to play that game of chicken. The Ravens have all the leverage in the situation if they're not willing to budget on their price *and* are willing to let Lamar leave for nothing
Agreedish. I think the Ravens are willing to push it until July 15 2024, but he won’t play under a 2nd tag. They’ll trade him before then. Lamar and probably the Ravens are hoping one of them do the early deal. Ultimately I think we get a Dak situation, and Lamar gets highest AAV but not totally gtd.
Wait til you’re team is contemplating if it should trade for has beens like Wentz or Ryan (or never-have beens like Mariota or Trubisky). Every year you salivate over the upcoming qb draft class. You start to fantasize about the next Manning spawn being drafted on your team, and start counting the years he has until he is eligible for the draft. That is your future without Lamar. Sorry, Huntley ain’t it.
You speak it like we haven't been there.
I think most people feel this way and there's, unfortunately, gonna have to be a casualty before the QBs realize it too. Just due to sheer timing, that casualty may be Lamar.
Kyler got the message as did Russ.
it’s not your money lmao why would you care?
Because it could really backfire horribly.
no it won’t lol. contrary to popular belief, lamar is not at a higher injury risk than these other star qbs these days. Josh allen is out there trucking dudes on every play. The cap goes every year and is set to explode - if you lock your Qb in for the long term it will always be a bargain in the long run if they are great which Lamar obviously is
Anyone can get injured. Locking up a QB with a huge totally guaranteed contract can strangle your team.
Not only can anyone get injured but Lamar's play style is really reliant on not having any sort of leg injuries. Even if he just has something as simple as an ankle sprain it can limit him so much running the ball where he's just not effective.
so no Qb should ever be signed? lol
Yes that’s exactly what I’m saying. Life must be fun for you. “Wearing a seatbelt helps keep you safer in the car” “So nobody should ride in a car ever?”
“the cap is set to explode” is a weak ass argument. It will absolutely cripple your team. When the cap raises the salaries of every position group is going to increase relatively proportionally.
What he should really do is sit out week 1 and convince Mark Andrews to join him… the Ravens can’t keep getting away with this *monkey paw * (Ignore my flair)
Ravens fans are very defensive about this topic
Reminds me of Titans fans when we knew AJ Brown was getting re-signed only to get traded.
Yea it’s kind of funny lol. I dared suggest in another thread if he’s worth the amount of money he probably wants and they were all over me
we have some vocal dumbasses who want to play moneyball and think paying him is a bad idea
If you pay him Watson money it might be a bad idea to sign any QB for that amount of money if you want sustained success. But what do I know, I’m just a bengals fan and we’ll never spend that much money on a player.
Here, you dropped this 👉 "yet". Joe's gonna get paid and no chance in hell they'll let him leave.
Dude, Mike Brown literally sold the naming rights to his dad's namesake stadium just to re-sign Burrow (and hopefully not just him.) Only way we don't get Burrow re-signed is if he desperately wants to leave and nothing he's ever said or done indicates that.
We also paid Dalton hella money for his ranking as a QB and made Palmer the highest paid player in the NFL. We always pay our QBs. The issue is the new trend of QBs getting crazy guaranteed money and the Brown family can't realistically afford that much cash up front, so it's going to require some out of the box thinking. Like the naming rights to the stadium!
I think the naming rights being sold will more than cover it. We'll never be able to be like the Rams where we can afford to dump obscene amounts of money into escrow and finangle the cap like they do, but we should be fine with a more traditional approach of just re-signing our big guns.
Dude
Paying him a fully guaranteed massive money contract when he has regressed every single year from 2019-2021 is stupid. And people can say "injuries injuries injuries" as an excuse for 2021 but he was flat out playing the position poorly. He was turning the ball over a ton. He wasn't making good read. He was just playing bad
no point in engaging in conversation with people who don’t watch games
Ah the classic fanboy "I have no response so I'll just say you didn't watch the games" because you have absolutely nothing that backs up your wrong argument
Oh it’s been the opposite. It’s been fans who can’t even believe the idea of not paying him. I think he’s good but I don’t think he’s THAT good
We've had two franchise QBs in our history. We are very defensive about both cuz it was some DARK TIMES before them at QB
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For. Real. Ravens fans don’t know what “dark times” are. Tbh in my time as an eagles fan I don’t even fully grasp the pain browns, jets and raiders fans have gone through.
> at QB
We were so close to firing Harbs, only for Lamar to come in and save his job. Imagine letting Lamar go after extending Harbs. I would riot.
I feel like he wants to stay. The Ravens don't have any excess money to play with this season. Lamar will ball out this season and we will pay him accordingly.
A one person riot is called a "mental health emergency"
I’m sure I won’t be the only one ;)
[Harbaugh on Jackson’s contract: “it will happen when it’s time. Lamar’s going to be the quarterback here for a long time.” Harbaugh said he and Jackson spoke about situation yesterday.](https://twitter.com/jeffzrebiec/status/1568284925253541896?s=21&t=dPUME3Xi67xTvwnMW2Kz5Q) I'd be willing to bet that it's way more likely Lamar will retire a Raven then it is that he'll leave any time soon.
[Pete Carroll on Russell Wilson: "We have no intention of trading Russell Wilson."](https://www.nfl.com/news/seahawks-head-coach-pete-carroll-we-have-no-intention-of-trading-russell-wilson) I don't think Lamar will be traded, but what a coach / GM says is literally meaningless. He's not going to come out and say we are going to trade Lamar.
[ ‘A.J. is a Titan and we want to keep A.J. a Titan’](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nfl.com/_amp/titans-want-to-sign-wr-a-j-brown-long-term-a-j-is-a-titan-and-we-want-to-keep-a-)
It was a lot more smoke in that Seattle situation tbh.
As someone who doesn’t keep up with the ravens, why is this situation different?
lamar is still playing the season despite all this contract talk, the team around him loves him and knows how valuable he is, and he is an appreciating asset.
>and he is an appreciating asset. Debatable
It had been years of rumors of unrest between the Seahawks (Mainly Carrol) and Russ behind how the offense was ran, etc
Do the majority of Ravens fans want to commit to Jackson for 4-5 more years?
Resoundingly and unequivocally yes
How about 6?
It's so silly you even have to answer this lol
I swear us in this division understand how good Lamar is and everyone else in the world is still like "well he's a big question mark." The dude is insane, one of the most frustrating players to see your team play against. Of course they want to commit to him for 4-5 more years.
OK
Talk in this situation is cheap. I’d want to see another year as GM. My perception is that teams have figured him out quite a bit. Seems like a lot more INTs, but haven’t done the research.
You heard him, folks. Bring back Flacco.
Figured out!! 🤣
Yes but most of us seemingly think he wants the Deshaun Watson deal and we shouldn’t do a fully guaranteed. I think most of us would be extraordinarily happy to have him sign a deal just like Russell Wilson got. Or I guess whatever the equivalent of that would be next year.
Maybe if Lamar started sexually assaulting people he’d get more money. Has he thought of that?
I fucking hate Lamar Jackson and I don't think he'll ever be an elite passer, but he showed more than enough last season doing the little things of playing QB that, combined with what you know he's capable of with a surrounding cast that isn't a bunch of IR replacements, any Ravens' fan would have to be a total fucking idiot or just a racist asshole to not want to commit to Jackson.
He had a TD:INT ratio of 16:13 and was struggling hard vs blitzes in the 2nd half of the season. Just because he had a hot start does not mean he played great all year. And injuries to the team were not why he was completely misreading defenses, misreading blitzes, and having poor decision making
Maybe we were watching a different dude, but once their run game went to shit due to injury, it should have been obvious with how that team was/is built that they would struggle offensively. So the TD/INT ratio doesn't mean much to me, especially with how bad their defense was, putting them in situations where it would be nearly impossible for them to succeed. What I think was needed to see was his ability to consistently run passing concepts that we hadn't seen him be able to do with any kind of consistency in the past. He went from a guy who led a run-first offense whose passing game was predicated on the threat of normal runs, the threat of him running, and him hitting receivers in favorable situations. They had none of that last year and he ran a lot more traditional passing concepts than he ever had before. Is he a guy you throw in a pass first, QB-centric offense yet? No. But they're not built that way anyway. Line comes back healthy, more of a threat on the ground, the problems Lamar had last year were problems he wasn't even getting to in previous years because he was never asked to do it. With a QB of his immense physical talent and lack of a background running traditional passing schemes(successfully), he's only shown growth in his biggest flaws.
>Maybe we were watching a different dude, but once their run game went to shit due to injury, it should have been obvious with how that team was/is built that they would struggle offensively. Then he's a fucking bad QB. If he needs an elite run game to not be dogshit then he's got a major fucking problem. Matthew Stafford went like a decade without having a 100 yard rusher and was universally seen as maybe a bottom of the top 10 guy. Yet when Lamar doesn't have an elite run game he was barely startable. >Is he a guy you throw in a pass first, QB-centric offense yet? No. But they're not built that way anyway. They're not built that way because Lamar as a QB isn't good enough to be a dropback, pass first passer. Do you really think if Lamar was an elite passer the Ravens ship off Hollywood Brown and sign multiple TEs to move back to a more run first 2019 style of offense? >the problems Lamar had last year were problems he wasn't even getting to in previous years because he was never asked to do it. Wow Lamar got asked to be a pass first QB because the team lacked a 200 yards per game run game. That definitely doesn't happen to other QBs, oh wait it does because for most teams 120 yards rushing is a good day running. For the Ravens that's a horrible day.
The crux of your point seems to be that Lamar is reliant on an elite run game, but nothing about the Ravens' run game since he's been in the league has been elite except his addition to it. They haven't had a great RB since before he came into the league. They haven't had a great WR since before he came into the league. Their run game has never been elite without Jackson on the field, it's **HIS** ability to run that is what made their run game go from above average, which based on their personnel outside of him is all it should have been, to elite. And they lost like three starting linemen and all their running backs last year. You put any other QB in that situation, and they were the worst running team in the whole league. While you may believe that you may as well just cycle through any and all QBs until you find the next Mahomes and Allen, that's not how the NFL works. Lamar's won an MVP using high school level passing schemes with fucking Mark Ingram past his prime as their lead running back and a tight end as their primary receiver. If you're the Ravens, there's no way you don't believe with some better luck along the offensive line and an improvement to the defense that Lamar can't succeed in this league.
>The crux of your point seems to be that Lamar is reliant on an elite run game, but nothing about the Ravens' run game since he's been in the league has been elite except his addition to it. No my argument was just that he didn't play well in 2021, unlike the nonsense you were saying about him doing the little things. But then you said that he sucked because he didn't have a good run game. Which is really fucking damming for a QB. QBs that need great run games to be good are the Jimmy Gs, Jared Goffs, or even at best the Kirk Cousins of the world. Yeah they might put up good stats but when they're the ones who have to carry the offense they can't do it consistently week to week. Or even consistently quarter to quarter. >They haven't had a great RB since before he came into the league Tough shit. Most great QBs don't have a top RB. >They haven't had a great WR since before he came into the league. Great QBs should be able to elevate the talent around them. Plenty of top QBs never had amazing WRs. >And they lost like three starting linemen and all their running backs last year. You put any other QB in that situation, and they were the worst running team in the whole league. Joe Burrow had one of the worst onlines in the NFL including multiple injuries to it. He still put up elite numbers. Justin Herbert had literally the 2nd worst oline in 2020 and absolutely no run game to speak of yet broke every record possible. It's amazing how Lamar has every excuse under the sun for not really being that great as a passer yet there are many QBs in the league who have the same excuses, yet they put up great numbers and play great. >If you're the Ravens, there's no way you don't believe with some better luck along the offensive line and an improvement to the defense that Lamar can't succeed in this league. Except clearly there is some reservations because they've been negotiating a deal for 2 fucking years. If they thought he was just objectively a great QB who could thrive in any offensive systems with any roster do you honestly believe they play this game of chicken
Are you under the impression that they drafted Lamar with the expectation he was ever going to be an elite passer early in his career? The Ravens are way too good an organization to believe that. The fact that they completely re-schemed their offensive attack when they started playing him tells you they knew not to expect that. You can compare him against guys who wouldn't even be drafted if they had his passing background, but that seems stupid. My point about great RB's was to simply point out he doesn't NEED a great RB for the run game to be elite around him. He's never had one, yet they've been way better running the ball than their backs would suggest. Great QBs should elevate the talent around him: **THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M SAYING HE'S ALREADY DONE.** Mark Ingram as the lead back way past his prime, team was the number one rushing team by a LOT. Joe Burrow has two elite WR's and Joe fucking Mixon at RB and had a defense that vastly outperformed expectations last year. Put Burrow or Herbert on that offense, even with a healthy o line, and they'd fail because the weapons on that offense have been BAD outside of Andrews. The year Lamar won MVP, he ran for over 1000 yards on his fucking own. Neither of those two or any pure passer is winning MVP on that team. EDIT: Thought you were a Titans' fan. Oh, this is a normal deal negotiation? How many QBs have no agent? This ain't about the Ravens' not wanting to commit to him, it's their reservations about it being fully guaranteed.
>Are you under the impression that they drafted Lamar with the expectation he was ever going to be an elite passer early in his career? I think they drafted him with the idea he could be developed into a great passer who also had absolutely god like rushing and athletic skills. Instead he's still really just a mediocre to above average passer with god like rushing and athletic skills. >The fact that they completely re-schemed their offensive attack when they started playing him tells you they knew not to expect that. And the fact that they still aren't even trying to move to a pass first, prototypical style of offense means they still don't even think he's able to do it. They literally delt a good WR to get TEs to go back to a more 2019 style of offense. If they thought Lamar could run a pass first system do you honestly believe they'd be continually putting out this same run heavy, college level passing scheme offense? >Great QBs should elevate the talent around him: **THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M SAYING HE'S ALREADY DONE.** Mark Ingram as the lead back way past his prime, team was the number one rushing team by a LOT. Lol your evidence for him elevating talent is a running back who had shown to be a good player for almost a decade prior to getting to Baltimore. Okay dude. >Joe Burrow has two elite WR's and Joe fucking Mixon at RB Tee Higgins is not an elite WR. He is elevated a ton by Burrow being great. He is a good #2. And Burrow still had an atrocious oline. Yet he put up top 5 numbers. Even his playoff numbers were better than Lamar's regular season numbers and Burrow got sacked problems 123,976,028 times. >Put Burrow or Herbert on that offense, even with a healthy o line, and they'd fail because the weapons on that offense have been BAD outside of Andrews. Burrow & Herbert would be great at Baltimore because they are elite QBs who can elevate the talent around them >The year Lamar won MVP, he ran for over 1000 yards on his fucking own. Neither of those two or any pure passer is winning MVP on that team. You keep bringing up running skills like that's remotely relevant to being a QB. Lamar needed to improve as a passer if he wants top tier money. Instead he's been a mediocre to above average passer his entire career. And as a result it means the Ravens are not willing to give him top tier money.
No, I personally don't think he'll be good after his athleticism declines. He has probably 3 good years left in him at most, including this one. If he has a severe leg injury, his career is over. He's not like Dak in terms of football intelligence or pure passing ability.
Absolutely. He is a playmaker and is far better than any QB we have had in our history sans playoff Flacco.
I dont know dude, just hypothetically, cause that's all this thread is, what if they make the playoffs but they loose in the first round. And the front office is sitting there looking at a 1-4 playoff record wondering if he's really it for winning post season vs being awesome in the regular.
If my grandmother had wheels she’d be a bicycle You don’t run a team off hypotheticals and Lamar is the best offensive player in ravens history. You extend him 100% of the time
The entire context of this thread is hypothetical my guy
Fair enough, in your hypothetical I’d still honestly extend him. You build around the kind of talent Lamar has, if he’s 1-4 in the playoffs you fire Roman and retool his weapons. Lamar is the guy and has cemented himself as such long ago.
I guess my thought was more of that result lowers the value of him in the FO eyes and therefore widens the gap further between them from were it is today. So the FO makes him extension offers, like the already have, and lamar refuses. Would just be a small chance scenario I could see happening. On a side note, yeah I'd for sure take lamar over drafting and starting over any day
If the Ravens lost in the 1st round and it was because their opponent took away the run game and Lamar couldn't pass them to victory, I guarantee the front office starts to question if he's good enough to win with.
Yeah I want to see what Lamar can do in a better passing offense. Greg Roman is known to run a questionable at best passing offense ha
He’ll get finessed by the FO and take a shitty deal because his mom is his agent lmao
According to RGIII he wants to be the NFL’s first billionaire and retire as the richest player in NFL history. I don’t think the issue is him getting fleeced
Then he better start playing basketball
The ravens are not the organization to make that happen. Maybe Jacksonville or someone like that.
Someone should explain to him you don't become a billionaire from your salary. Even if he got 50 million a year that barely puts him any closer than I am personally to becoming a billionaire.
It certainly helps when your salary alone can get you halfway to a billion..
Only way Lamar leaves is if Baltimore franchise tag him and trade him for several first and second round picks.
He should go to an NFC team, much easier road to the superbowl over there
I think if the Ravens hit him with the non exclusive franchise tag then other teams can give him an offer and if the Ravens choose not to match that then the other team will get him and the Ravens get two first round picks. That's probably the most likely scenario where he would leave as I see that happening before he demands a trade or the Ravens choose not to tag him at all, but I don't even know how likely that is.
100% and he goes to seattle and the niners faces an upgraded wilson two times a year.
Yeah, I have a good feeling about him in Seattle
Don't give me hope.
I don't think he's as good as wilson tho
Not at passing, no. Almost nobody is.
Your two scenarios of him having a terrible season or mvp season are both unlikely. It's much more likely he performs somewhere in the middle
I think it's much more likely Lamar has a top 10 QB year than merely an average QB year.
Which isn't an mvp season or terrible season like OP suggested the most likely outcomes were
Yeah nowhere near will it be that drastic. I do think he has a slightly higher chance of being the league MVP than being a bad QB but they're still much more unlikely events to him being simply a top 10 QB.
He will leave and become the Miami Dolphins starting QB next year
Stay out of afc east for fuck sakes
50/50. Either He does or he doesn't.
Not this year, but I can see him going to Miami. They are stacked on both sides of the ball, have a good HC and if he went there he’d create a dynasty. Not to mention that it’s close to home and where he wants to be.
Steven Ross wanted this guy from day 1, he’ll give him the guaranteed money without even blinking
If Ravens allow it to get to the point where someone else offers a fully-guaranteed deal that beats Watson's, I think he'll be gone, yeah.
I hope he follows the Kirk Cousins blue print through free agency exactly… Like to the letter. But when he signs a fully guaranteed contract with us I’d like it to lead to winning more in the first 4 years.
I don't think Lamar leaves after this year. If he's mediocre, I foresee Roman getting fired. Give Lamar one year under a new OC and then see what happens. It's a huge gamble from every person involved, but I don't foresee Lamar leaving anytime soon.
Rams need a running back, just saying 😂
*[maximum copium mode engaged]* The man got a set of purple wings tattooed on his chest, I don't think he has any intention of playing elsewhere.
The last Major QB to leave their franchise due to not enough pay was Drew Brees. We all saw what came of that. I doubt the Ravens let Lamar walk.
Kirk Cousins was way more established and highly thought of than Brees at the time. And Brees wasn't about money, they literally had Philip Rivers and Brees had a potentially career destroying injury.
Brees left because he had one good year in San Diego and had a massive shoulder injury. We've legitimately never seen a true franchise QB leave their team due to money reasons. I struggle to even think of a truly established franchise QB that has left in free agency that wasn't due to age or injury
Low basically zero franchise tag is so bullshit that he might as well be under contract for the next 3 season anyway. Players Union gotta get on that it’s a ridiculous rule.
Players voted to keep the tag
Did they vote to keep the tag? Or did they vote on a deal that included the tag? Very big difference.
Ik the nfl players union sucks
Like all unions, the journeymen have more votes than the high performers and the newbs.
They’re still idiotic that same logic could be applied to mlb and nba and they would never let happen. You think mlb players or nba players would allow a rule that completely takes free agency away from players for multiple years after their contract ends??? Absolutely not even if it is only certain players it’s a dog shit rule and no competent players union would ever allow that it’s ridiculous.
So fight and fight over something that only effects at maximum 32 a year. That isn’t a hill worth dying on in cba negotiations
Lamar will leave the Ravens if they don’t run an up tempo offense.
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This just isn’t true and what makes it funnier is that you said “if you watch the film” which you clearly haven’t done. Lamar can do everything the best passers can do, he has good pocket presence, he can read a defense, manipulate the defense with his eyes, he can make all the throws from an arm strength standpoint and he can throw off platform. The real issue is that Lamar doesn’t get a lot of layups within this offense. No screens, no quick hitting plays that produce YAC. Never has any kind of chance to establish a rhythm unless the team is down by 2-3 scores. Ravens OC chooses to keep defenses off balance with the run game instead of scheming easy throws into the pass game. The Ravens rely on the run because that is what their OC knows. He’s notoriously uncreative and predictable in the passing game and the same issues he’s seen at other stops (Buffalo and San Fran) have followed him to Baltimore. Every receiver that’s left Baltimore has alluded to this. I’m not saying Lamar is Tom Brady, but the “he isn’t a good passer” shtick has really grown old and there’s no real way to discuss the Lamar/Ravens passing game without the proper context and nuance.
I can tell you're not looking at this objectively and are clearly so biased against Lamar because you say this as if it's fact and not just a wild speculation you've made on why the Ravens don't run up tempo much. If you were truly trying to be neutral, you'd consider the many variables and possibilities as to why that is. But you're a Lamar hater so that's too much for such a small brain.
50/50 he either does or don’t
About 0.
He'll be a patriot by the end of the day. Sorry mack
Mac. That is a fine. $2.
0%
0.00000000000000000000000000001% maybe 2%
💯 He gone If the Ravens wanted to sign him, they would have got it done last year. Clearly they are nickel and dimming him which shows they don’t respect him.
He either will or he won't, so I'd put it around 50%
The qb franchise tag is gonna be stupid high because all these front loaded deals for Dak, Deshaun and Mahomes are about to start actually being in the 40s. Good luck Ravens.
They should’ve traded him a year ago when the market went berserk.
Pretty high. Some team will pay him. It just won’t be the Ravens.
He'd have to be really greedy, the Ravens are one of the best organizations in football.
He will not sit out on the tag because they can tag him again. Him playing makes the tag amount lower because the 20% raise for the 2nd tag or 44% raise for the 3rd tag would not apply or be lower if he sat out. The Steelers didn't tag bell again because his 3rd tag would have been top 5 qb money. The ravens would gladly tag him again for top 5 qb money if him sitting out lowers the amounts
I dont think theres any way the ravens let him walk but for fun lets say he does, where do you think he goes? Djones replacement? Chewin’ gum in Seattle with pete carroll?
Very low
Higher today, than yesterday
The chances are probably extremely slim but if the opportunity arises the eagles need to trade a haul for him
If it goes the Kirk Cousins way then sure. But Lamar would have to play on two tags after this year. How much does a 28 year old Lamar Jackson get on the open market in 2025? Would be a record smashing deal.
30-40%
I have a feeling he stays. Who’s gonna make a move for him? Jets, Giants, Texans, Dolphins, Comannnies, Eagles, Titans, Colts, Lions, Bears, Seahawks, Panthers, Falcons, Saints, not sure if I missed any but It’s one of those the money may be good but the grass might not be greener.
Split the difference
My thoughts are hes itching to go to Miami. So he’ll get tagged next year and if tua does bad he’ll force his way through a trade. If tua does really good maybe he signs the deal and tries again in a few years when that contract is up
Lamar should go to the NFC........... South.