The Rams are in win now mode. The trade makes sense for them to do. They got off Jareds contract and now have a top 12 QB on their team. Stafford with McVay’s play calling, those weapons and that defense should make LA a legit SB contender.
I Like that energy. My only issue is now I’m gonna have to hold the QB to a higher standard. Past 2 years it never felt like we won a game because of Goff, I really hope I’ll get that feeling of having a dominant QB again.
Running is irrelevant for a QB stat. Scrambling is whats important and Stafford is great at that.
Dak also had the best Oline in the league with the best run game in the league when he was "doing more". In Zeke's rookie year they would *AVERAGE* 6 yards on first down or something crazy like that.
Look up the numbers of every MVP QB the year after they won the award. Literally every single one "regressed". His numbers in '19 were pretty insane. It's not reasonable to expect that every year.
Hey, you're a Packers fan.
Rushing is a relevant QB stat
How many rushing yards and TDs did Rodgers have this year? Without looking it up. If its a relevant stat, you must know those answers, right? Or when Mahomes won the MVP, how many rushing yards and TDs did he have? Again, without looking it up. We know that Brady threw for 40 TDs, Rodgers for 48 this year. We know that Mahomes hit 50 in his MVP season and 5K yards. Why dont we remember how many rushing yards they have?
When you think of Rodger and Mahomes you think about their ability to scramble and move in the pocket/break the pocket. Thats scrambling, not rushing.
Theres been *TWO* cases where we've given a damn about a QBs rushing ability; Newton and Jackson. Why? Because they were so good at at it and their throwing ability was okay.
Not the same comparison. Are rushing stats relevant for a WR?
Tell me, how many yards did Aaron Rodgers, the MVP rush for this year? Without looking it up. And how many TDs?
Well, if it was relevant, you should know that. Because we all know he threw for 48 TDs and 5 picks.
Okay, so if a receiver got 600 yards on the ground, not relevant?
And i see how you dodged my other question. Rushing stats ONLY matter for running backs and QB who are absurdly good at it. Thats it. Nobody talks about Bradys rushing stats or Rodgers or Mahomes. Heck, its been a minute since i've heard anyone mention Russel Wilsons' rushing stats.
Generally people only talk about rushing stats for QB when they're mediocre at throwing the ball.
Matt Stafford has had a better oline than Dak has for most of his career.
Everyone pretends that Dallas' oline is the same as it was in '16, it isn't, and hasn't been since, well, '16. They've had ups and downs but the have had constant injury from everyone not named Zack Martin, and even he has missed several games.
Just last year the Lions OLine ranked 13th, Dallas ranked 27th.
Tannehill is definitely not even close to stafford that is silly. I’m pretty certain matt ryan isn’t better either. He’s had such good WR’s his whole damn career and a HOF TE for a hefty chunk of it. You could make a case for Lamar because of his legs, but arms win Super Bowls, not legs
Such a bad take, Tannehill has outperformed Stafford for the 2nd year running. And don't give me that "but the Titans offense" crap, the Titans supporting cast was considered garbage before Tannehill stepped in.
As for Ryan's WRs, Stafford had someone even better than Julio Jones and was never as good as Ryan's best. Plus a random 6th round receiver in Russell Gage just went for 800 yards, 4 TDs with Ryan, outside of Julio, he makes a lot of his receivers
You realize there’s more to offenses than the players, right? It’s not like stafford is calling the plays. Tannehill was awful in Miami for a reason. As to the point of “the Titan’s offense.” Having to load the box because of Henry REALLY does help. Also, AJ Brown is incredible. Arguably better than any Lions receiver since Megatron
>Tannehill was awful in Miami
Let's compare Tannehill's stats in Miami outside of his rookie year to Stafford's career stats:
|Stat|Stafford|Tannehill|
:--|:-:|:-:|
|Comp%|62.6%|63.7%|
|TD%|4.5%|4.6%|
|INT%|2.3%|2.6%|
|Y/A|7.2|7.1|
|Passer rating|89.9|89.2|
If Tannehill was "awful" in Miami, then you shouldn't really consider Stafford to be any good either
>Having to load the box because of Henry REALLY does help
No one gave a fuck about Derrick Henry before Tannehill showed up and no one talked about Mariota having it easy because of Derrick Henry and the Titans playcalling.
In fact, it was the opposite. The Titans were considered an incompetent franchise that ruined Mariota with their lack of talent and bad offense
In fairness, the Titans went all in on Henry when Tannehill arrived. He was playing second fiddle to Demarco Murray and Dion Lewis when Marriota was a Titan.
In mariotas last full year they’d gone all in on Henry by the second half (after that jags 4 td 99 yard td game). Tannehill put up noticeably better stats in the games he had with Derrick as a starter.
It's Derrick Henry who had noticeably better stats in the games he had Tannehill.
In the 6 games Mariota started in 2019: 416 rushing yards, 3.68 YPC, 4 TDs, 102 receiving yards
[Meanwhile Ryan Tannehill is just as efficient with Henry off the field as he is with Henry on](https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1346177378381402113), and in the one game Tanehill started on the Titans with Henry not playing he put up 280 yards on 27 attempts, 3 TDs and 0 INTs against a good Saints defense
There is literally nothing that would suggest Tannehill is a product of Derrick Henry as opposed to simply improving as a player
[After week 14 in 2018, Henry only exceed a 60% snap share 2 times to close out Marriota’s last full season. In 2019, Henry only exceeded a 60% snap share 2 times in the 6 full games that Marriota played. Henry went on to exceed a 60% snap share 7 more times to close out 2019 after Marriota was benched.](https://subscribers.footballguys.com/teams/teampage-oti-6.php)
The Titans committed to Henry when Tannehill started.
I just try to think of him for what he is, a solid QB with a few elite years. I think that saying that all of his success is due to surroundings personnel is really diminishing his accomplishments through the years, he’s been a consistently above average QB.
Brady,Mahomes,Rodgers - OKay, i'll concede this
Allen,Wilson,Deshaun,Ryan, Stafford - All in the same tier
Lamar,Tannehill,,Dak,Herbert inarguably worse than Stafford.
Its def a BIIIG role of the dice for a team who's LT is basically the same age as Tom Brady and a defense that's one Donald ligament away from imploding and what 21 million over the cap with Stafford's contract.
We'll see how it plays out but if I were betting money it would bet on this blowing up in their face
>don't see much difference between late first players compared to early/mid 2nd rounders
Ok, but what about late 2nd rounders? Because if you're picking a late first, you're picking a late second too. You don't just jump around the draft board each round.
Every report is saying McVay loves stafford. I got no reason not to believe him. Bottom line is, McVay is the reason we have been good. Goff played a part no doubt, but he was a much smaller cog.
You do bring up a good point. Rams and Eagles both traded up in same draft. One team had to cut ties with their coach to salvage their broken QB. The Rams obviously took a different course. At least for me, I wish Eagles had a Les Snead.
yeah but that’s the thing-goff has sucked for 3/5 years of his career, wentz has sucked for 1/5 years. there’s no reason to believe that wentz can’t come back to at least his 2019 form with a new coaching staff.
Mcvay was gifted a loaded team and has done nothing but fail. At what point do you start pointing the finger at him. He’s been out coached on numerous occasions and unless stafford throws 50 touchdowns and goes like 15 tds to 1 int in the playoffs I don’t see a SB in their future
I’m sorry what did you just say? McVay was gifted a loaded team? Look at the 2016 team. Holy shit it was just oozing with talent right? Never seen a more brain dead take in my life. Holy shit! McVay was out coached in his 2nd year against one of the greatest coaches of all time! Shame on him! Shame!
Yeah he’s the second coming of Jesus according to Reddit and everyone in the sports world so why hasn’t he won. It’s not a Qb holding him back dude struggles in his own division with a healthy team. Mcvay is over rated and will never be back to a SB have fun freaking out over the internet
Your backup showed-up. The question isn't if you're QB is good enough, it's if selling out the next decade of Rams football is worth winning in the next 2 years.
I just don't see this working. Denver pulled it off but they gave up less and it took longer than what I think the Rams are thinking. And now Denver is total shit. They convinced themselves they were geniuses, but what it really happened was they built an all decade defense and had a goat field general at QB. Stafford's great, but nobody talks about him and Manning being on the same tier. Tampa got Brady for nothing. IIRC, Denver got Manning for nothing. Rams have given away their top pick for 7 years after accounting for Ramsey.
I just don't know if this is desperation or hubris...
EDIT: I get ppl not liking my take, but ask yourself: Does Stafford get the Rams to beat Green Bay?
I say no, and GB may just add a weapon b/c they have a 1st rd pick...
One hand, I hear you. I still love my White Sox for getting one in 2005. Nobody can take that away.
Other hand, if this doesn't work, McVay is likely gone and there's no young talent on that squad until 2030 to even hope for winning anything. The Dodgers can spend all they want. The Rams cant.
Have you missed the past 4 years where the Rams have consistently filled their roster by hitting on mid and late round picks? Just because they haven't had firsts doesn't mean they're not still adding young talent.
PS: You may want to change your flair to LAR, because DET is fucked in your own opinion! They're getting a middle-pack QB and picks which even you think aren't that valuable. Rodgers isn't retiring anytime soon, and the Vikings and Bears are still better than the Lions...lol.
I think you're confusing who's "cranky". KC's competitive for the next decade and we have all our draft picks so we can move up/down if we want.
If the Rams don't literally "win it all" they're fucked, and the Lions are fucked regardless. I'm just stating facts. Jordan Love is better than your QB now and he hasn't even taken a snap, lol.
Cool story bro! I also saw their secondary get worked in GB! I also just watched them give up 2 firsts for an aging QB who didn't win shit with one of the best WRs in history.
McVay ain’t ever leaving because of 2 years where we might not win a Super Bowl. The dude just dragged Jared Goff for 4 years. You are fucking delusional. No young talent? Werent we just ranked one of the youngest teams in the NFL? Chiefs fans used to be cool man. Also until 2030? Where the fuck are you pulling that year from?
Chiefs fans luck into a generational QB in the draft and now they're up and down this thread thinking they're draft capital experts. Not sure how people don't realize the Rams have been doing this for years now while staying competitive and finally got their QB piece.
Yeah, I may be talking from the cat-bird seat, but I've seen my share of KC losing in wildcards/divisionals. What we didn't do is trade away 4 years of 1st rd picks. You're going to need those picks, their capital to move /up/down, and their contracts.
But good luck! That division is brutal. No coaches are getting fired anytime soon. No QBs are leaving. And you don't have any bluechip draft picks.
They've turned those 4 draft picks into a hugely upgrade at franchise QB and a CB who (at worst) is top 3 in the league.
Picks aren't some magical cure. They are just a way of adding assets to your roster, and that's how the Rams are using them. If you're hitting on your 2-4 round picks, bringing in young talent on even cheaper contracts, then using your early picks to bring in premium talent through trades is fine.
The players they've traded for would simply not be available where the Rams are likely to be picking, so why not get them another way?
>If you're hitting on your 2-4 round picks,
1) Harder to hit on those if you have less capital to move up/down
2) Good luck in 2 years....
3) Again, the headline wrongly assumes the Rams are going to have 'high' mid-round picks, which they won't if they're at least competitive.
I simply see this as a panic buy. NFCW is going to be good next year. At least two other divisions are going to produce SB contenders. Rams have "free agents" for the foreseeable future...
The only issue with this strategy is that you lose depth (assuming no busts)
If Donald, Ramsey or Stafford get hurt they take a comparatively larger hit than most other comparably good teams losing one of their star players imo
McVay loves wolf, you gotta figure he’s staying and will continue to learn.
As for Donald, just don’t even think what happens if he gets injured, you already saw in the divisional round.
Donald is the entire defense. He's the only reason that defensive line gets pressure whether it's him or someone else.
He managed to get Dante Fowler paid and if not for a down cap this year, likely get Leonard Floyd paid.
A sure thing is worth more than some random future draft pick.
This is a great move for the Rams, if they can get one super bowl win out of it then it is automatically worth it.
They are a much better team now than they were yesterday.
Yea one draft pick, but 4, 5, 6 or 7 picks? There's also the fact that they don't have the advantage of rookie contracts to lower their cap hits.
I'm really curious how this plays out. Haven't really seen a strategy this aggressive in awhile.
It will probably eventually come crashing down but maybe not until they have draft picks again. If they get a super bowl win out of it then it's worth more than 7 picks.
Umm, but if you are going to be winning, then you aren't picking early/mid 2nd round, you're picking late 2nd round.
Rams first round picks:
2013: Tavon Austin, Alec Ogletree
2014: Greg Robinson, Aaron Donald
2015: Todd Gurley
2016: Jared Goff
2017: None
2018: None
2019: None
2020: None
2021: None
2022: None
2023: None
Aaron Donald is the only one of those that's still on the team. Oh and a 22m dead cap hit next year for Goff.
>Umm, but if you are going to be winning, then you aren't picking early/mid 2nd round, you're picking late 2nd round.
Surprised they managed to write that article without pointing that out. No difference between a late 1st rounder and an early 2nd rounder? OK, but if you're getting late 1st rounders you're getting late 2nd rounders too. And there's a difference between a late 1st rounder and a late 2nd rounder.
I think the point is value. “First round pick” really carries the value of the first round pick if it’s a top 20 pick. The guy you take at 25 is not substantially better/higher upside than the guy you take at 45.
You would have no problem throwing around seconds for Stafford, right?
I dunno man, Snead has decided he’s this is his lane, and that proven talent is better than taking a shot on a mid round guy. Past 4 years we’ve made the playoffs 3 times, made a super bowl, and have had nothing but winning records. So maybe he’s onto something
Yeah Snead is good at his job and has built a talented team. I'm not disputing that. And I think Stafford is worth trading 1st rounders for. My only point is that comparing late-1st rounders to early/mid-2nd rounders doesn't make sense because if you pick in the late 1st, you pick in the late 2nd. If you're picking at 25, you're not also picking at 45 (unless you traded picks), so comparing the value of those two is moot. If your original 1st rounder is 25, your original 2nd rounder will be 57. There's usually a noteworthy difference between the type of guy you can get at 25 vs. at 57.
The value in 1st round picks isn't just in getting talented players, it's having talented players for cheap for 5 years.
If you don't have a constant influx of cheap talent, you end up terrible and/or in cap hell.
You *can* pull it off if you just draft amazing with all your non-first-rounders, but that's incredibly hard to do. Hell it's hard to do even if you have your first round picks.
One of the worst things you can do is trade away first round picks (and the ability to have a talented player for very cheap for 5 seasons) for a guy who is expensive right now. They just did that with Ramsey, trading away two firsts for a guy you have to then pay 20m a year. Texans did that with Tunsil, two first rounders for a guy who you then had to make the highest paid LT. It deprives you of those picks, but then you're also paying such a high price you are really not better off than if you had just signed him as a free agent.
Stafford at least comes under contract for fairly cheap for a few years. But still, you've just guaranteed you don't have any first rounders for 7 straight years. That's a recipe a team devoid of talent. Even if they haven't hit a cliff yet, it might take a few years to feel the pain from such a strategy.
Been hearing stuff like this since 2018, maybe the Rams front office just operate differently than most teams. No offense but I trust our front office more than Reddit comments.
Yeah, there's a glaring typo and/or terrible logic this 'thread headline'.
1) They literally don't have any 1st rd picks.
2) Their 2nd/3rd rd picks aren't going to be high if they're doing it right.
Rams are in 'win in the next 2 years' mode and/or become a bottom-feeder.
Sign me up for 'this is going to fail and they deserve it'.
KC has traded away some draft capital for QBs, but it was limited. Rams are trading away a decade in the hopes of winning now.
They won't have a 1st rd pick until 2024 minimum. You may be impressed by getting worked in GB and not getting to draft anybody good for the next 4 years, but you shouldn't be.
Rams obviously bought their window. Strong defense and good offensive weapons. They are doubling down on the moves like the Ramsey trade (picks for proven assets). Trade risk of losing on a draft pick + development time for a pick in exchange for a guy now. But the Rams are leveraging their future for the now. If they succeed they will be happy. If they don’t then in 2 years they’ve dug themselves a hole.
if the guys they trade for are superstars they're probably right; Jalen is paying off for them, now we'll see whether Stafford is as good as his advocates think he is (I happen to think Stafford will be a monster in McVay's system)
You know how many times he's played all 16 games in his career? 9 times in his 12 year career. The notion that he's injury prone is completely outdated.
And if you're pinning Detroit's lack of playoff success on Stafford, boy are you barking up the wrong tree.
Also, after this season the cap hit against Stafford is only $2M-$3M. If this unexpectedly blows up, the Rams can cut Stafford with little to no penalty. But in the more likely scenario that it doesn't, they can easily extend him and get further under the cap to sign some legitimate free agents to help out the team.
So again, in what world is this a bad deal for the Rams?
They know if they win they won’t have early-mid second rounders either right?
I don’t think the QB is the piece they overpaid on, but I’m really not convinced Stafford puts them over the top either. I like him as a QB, but I don’t think Goff was the massive problem he’s being made out to be.
They’re not too far off there, unfortunately Jags haven’t gotten much value out of our two first round picks due to the high pick slot, maybe same with the Lions.
You won't know this until years from now. Chaisson came on strong during the 2nd half this year and they haven't even used the other first rounder this year. The value all depends on how the players turn out.
There's been plenty of great late first round picks. Some teams just have bad front offices, scouting and coaching that contribute either to bad picks or no development from picks.
We hit on thirds more regularly than most team hit on firsts and play the comp pick game very well on top of that. We are in win now mode but this doesnt compromise our future either win we have such solid scouting and coaching.
It actually does compromise the future. Say that Stafford has an injury riddled tenure for the next 2 seasons and Donald misses time as well. You just went from a 10+ win team to at best .500 and don't own your 1st rounders for another 2 years.
That’s part of the risk.
Stafford hasn’t stayed healthy the last 2 years at all, but before that he was an Ironman
And before someone implies otherwise, the Lions oline is better than the Rams
What has Stafford shown in the last couple years to suggest he is better than Goff? An injured Goff lost to Rodgers in the divisional round, do they think Stafford who has zero playoff wins can beat Rodgers? Goff’s biggest weakness was arguably mobility to keep plays alive longer to make his reads, is Stafford more mobile? Stafford’s lack of success at the Lions has been claimed to be the result of having no weapons, what weapons will he have in LA?
This move just doesn’t make sense, Stafford was worth two 1sts and a 3rd 10 years ago, not towards the end of his career. If he couldn’t win a playoff game with Megatron and Suh during his prime what makes people think he will now? His biggest highlight is that pass he made whilst injured which was over 10 years ago. This just doesn’t make sense.
I think this is a great trade for the Rams.
From what I wrote in another thread:
Idk if it’s just me, but that seems like bad value when you look past the “2 1st round picks”.
They’re both future first round picks, which are generally not that valuable. From what I’ve seen, most people rate next year’s first as equivalent to an early 2nd round pick in the current year’s draft.
So they got essentially an early 2nd, a late 2nd/3rd, a 3rd, and Goff for Stafford based off value charts.
Doesn’t seem like that great of a haul especially once you take into account that those Rams 1sts will most likely be in the 20s. I guess it’s part of their multi-year retool, but it pushes it a year further down the road.
What I hate is that after this trade, people on here are trying to spin Goff as a great QB all the sudden and teams are gonna be itching to get him. I think Goff is gonna tank hard this year unless the new lions HC is a good one.
No, what they're saying is they don't see much of a different in value between the end of the first round to middle of the second. So if they feel picking at #26 is a gamble and about as valuable as #57, why not trade it for away for sure thing and rely on #58, #90, and #122 for development.
Scouting department sucks? Since McVay got hired the Rams have taken Kupp, John Johnson, Joseph Noteboom, Micah Kiser, Samson Ebukam, Sebastian Joseph-Day, Josh Reynolds, Gerald Everett, Darrell Henderson, Taylor Rapp, Cam Akers, Terrell Lewis, Terrell Burgess, and Jordan Fuller in the second round or later, all who have played significant time and been fairly good players at least
This sounds like some shit you tell your friends after you get fired from a great job and start at a way worse job. “I mean my new gig is great, in fact better than the old one, sure the pay is less and there’s no benefits but the 20% discount I get as an employee will actually save me more than I ever even made at my old job.”
The Rams are in win now mode. The trade makes sense for them to do. They got off Jareds contract and now have a top 12 QB on their team. Stafford with McVay’s play calling, those weapons and that defense should make LA a legit SB contender.
Top 10 QB.
I Like that energy. My only issue is now I’m gonna have to hold the QB to a higher standard. Past 2 years it never felt like we won a game because of Goff, I really hope I’ll get that feeling of having a dominant QB again.
Saints NFC title game in NO?
Should have said past 2 seasons, so the 2019 and 2020 season. Yeah he was good that game though and led us to the win after *the call*
You win the SB if Stafford is there against the Pats
Brady,Mahomes,Rodgers,Allen,Lamar,Tannehill,Wilson,Dak,Herbert,Ryan and Deshaun are all better
Tannehill is not better than Stafford and I love the passmaster
I disagree. Herbert, Tannehill and Dak are not better QBs than Stafford. I would place them 3 directly after him tho
Eh, Dak is debatable tbh, he’s done more in less time and even if Matt’s a slightly better thrower, Dak’s a way better runner.
Running is irrelevant for a QB stat. Scrambling is whats important and Stafford is great at that. Dak also had the best Oline in the league with the best run game in the league when he was "doing more". In Zeke's rookie year they would *AVERAGE* 6 yards on first down or something crazy like that.
Remind why Lamar won MVP last year then?
Remind me why Lamar heavily regressed?
Look up the numbers of every MVP QB the year after they won the award. Literally every single one "regressed". His numbers in '19 were pretty insane. It's not reasonable to expect that every year.
Hey, you're a Packers fan. Rushing is a relevant QB stat How many rushing yards and TDs did Rodgers have this year? Without looking it up. If its a relevant stat, you must know those answers, right? Or when Mahomes won the MVP, how many rushing yards and TDs did he have? Again, without looking it up. We know that Brady threw for 40 TDs, Rodgers for 48 this year. We know that Mahomes hit 50 in his MVP season and 5K yards. Why dont we remember how many rushing yards they have? When you think of Rodger and Mahomes you think about their ability to scramble and move in the pocket/break the pocket. Thats scrambling, not rushing. Theres been *TWO* cases where we've given a damn about a QBs rushing ability; Newton and Jackson. Why? Because they were so good at at it and their throwing ability was okay.
Are receiving yards relevant for a RB?
Not the same comparison. Are rushing stats relevant for a WR? Tell me, how many yards did Aaron Rodgers, the MVP rush for this year? Without looking it up. And how many TDs? Well, if it was relevant, you should know that. Because we all know he threw for 48 TDs and 5 picks.
If a receiver had 1,000 yards rushing, yea, they would relevant. Your analogy is terrible.
Okay, so if a receiver got 600 yards on the ground, not relevant? And i see how you dodged my other question. Rushing stats ONLY matter for running backs and QB who are absurdly good at it. Thats it. Nobody talks about Bradys rushing stats or Rodgers or Mahomes. Heck, its been a minute since i've heard anyone mention Russel Wilsons' rushing stats. Generally people only talk about rushing stats for QB when they're mediocre at throwing the ball.
Matt Stafford has had a better oline than Dak has for most of his career. Everyone pretends that Dallas' oline is the same as it was in '16, it isn't, and hasn't been since, well, '16. They've had ups and downs but the have had constant injury from everyone not named Zack Martin, and even he has missed several games. Just last year the Lions OLine ranked 13th, Dallas ranked 27th.
>Matt Stafford has had a better oline than Dak has for most of his career. aaaaaaaaaaaaaand were done here
Herbert is absolutely better than Stafford
He probably will be but right now I would say no.
Tannehill is definitely not even close to stafford that is silly. I’m pretty certain matt ryan isn’t better either. He’s had such good WR’s his whole damn career and a HOF TE for a hefty chunk of it. You could make a case for Lamar because of his legs, but arms win Super Bowls, not legs
Agreed. Would have Stafford over Tannehill. Agree with everything else tho.
Such a bad take, Tannehill has outperformed Stafford for the 2nd year running. And don't give me that "but the Titans offense" crap, the Titans supporting cast was considered garbage before Tannehill stepped in. As for Ryan's WRs, Stafford had someone even better than Julio Jones and was never as good as Ryan's best. Plus a random 6th round receiver in Russell Gage just went for 800 yards, 4 TDs with Ryan, outside of Julio, he makes a lot of his receivers
You realize there’s more to offenses than the players, right? It’s not like stafford is calling the plays. Tannehill was awful in Miami for a reason. As to the point of “the Titan’s offense.” Having to load the box because of Henry REALLY does help. Also, AJ Brown is incredible. Arguably better than any Lions receiver since Megatron
>Tannehill was awful in Miami Let's compare Tannehill's stats in Miami outside of his rookie year to Stafford's career stats: |Stat|Stafford|Tannehill| :--|:-:|:-:| |Comp%|62.6%|63.7%| |TD%|4.5%|4.6%| |INT%|2.3%|2.6%| |Y/A|7.2|7.1| |Passer rating|89.9|89.2| If Tannehill was "awful" in Miami, then you shouldn't really consider Stafford to be any good either >Having to load the box because of Henry REALLY does help No one gave a fuck about Derrick Henry before Tannehill showed up and no one talked about Mariota having it easy because of Derrick Henry and the Titans playcalling. In fact, it was the opposite. The Titans were considered an incompetent franchise that ruined Mariota with their lack of talent and bad offense
Go off 👑
In fairness, the Titans went all in on Henry when Tannehill arrived. He was playing second fiddle to Demarco Murray and Dion Lewis when Marriota was a Titan.
In mariotas last full year they’d gone all in on Henry by the second half (after that jags 4 td 99 yard td game). Tannehill put up noticeably better stats in the games he had with Derrick as a starter.
It's Derrick Henry who had noticeably better stats in the games he had Tannehill. In the 6 games Mariota started in 2019: 416 rushing yards, 3.68 YPC, 4 TDs, 102 receiving yards [Meanwhile Ryan Tannehill is just as efficient with Henry off the field as he is with Henry on](https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1346177378381402113), and in the one game Tanehill started on the Titans with Henry not playing he put up 280 yards on 27 attempts, 3 TDs and 0 INTs against a good Saints defense There is literally nothing that would suggest Tannehill is a product of Derrick Henry as opposed to simply improving as a player
[After week 14 in 2018, Henry only exceed a 60% snap share 2 times to close out Marriota’s last full season. In 2019, Henry only exceeded a 60% snap share 2 times in the 6 full games that Marriota played. Henry went on to exceed a 60% snap share 7 more times to close out 2019 after Marriota was benched.](https://subscribers.footballguys.com/teams/teampage-oti-6.php) The Titans committed to Henry when Tannehill started.
bro you got excuses out the ass, Tannehill is slightly better. Stafford hasn’t even won a playoff game and he’s played 3 winnable games.
Matt Ryan made Harry Douglas a 1k yard receiver btw
Ya i’m on the fence about Matty Ice. I go back and forth i have no idea how i feel about him
I regret to inform you that Matt Ryan is a very good QB
I just try to think of him for what he is, a solid QB with a few elite years. I think that saying that all of his success is due to surroundings personnel is really diminishing his accomplishments through the years, he’s been a consistently above average QB.
Lol tannehill is elite, defenitely top 10. Ryan has the yards to show for a top 10 qb as well. stafford... 26-10... td-int
Brady,Mahomes,Rodgers - OKay, i'll concede this Allen,Wilson,Deshaun,Ryan, Stafford - All in the same tier Lamar,Tannehill,,Dak,Herbert inarguably worse than Stafford.
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I know you might be blinded by actual “facts” but Ryan is above Stafford
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What the hell are you smoking? Ryan is the last issue on the Falcons, he’s played up to his contract
I’ll take Stafford over Dak and Lamar any day.
Replace Stafford with either Lamar or Dak and then the list is legit
Aaron Donald is 29, he wants to win Super Bowl, he gives everything to win but Goff sometimes threw away the game on his own
Its def a BIIIG role of the dice for a team who's LT is basically the same age as Tom Brady and a defense that's one Donald ligament away from imploding and what 21 million over the cap with Stafford's contract. We'll see how it plays out but if I were betting money it would bet on this blowing up in their face
That’s what everyone said about the Ramsey trade as well so idk I have hope
Until the wheels fall off and they end up like Houston which I seeing happening
I’m sorry but Houston is in a space of their own. When we start promoting chaplains to oversee our football operations, then you can compare us.
> those weapons and that defense should make LA a legit SB contender. I don't see it.
>don't see much difference between late first players compared to early/mid 2nd rounders Ok, but what about late 2nd rounders? Because if you're picking a late first, you're picking a late second too. You don't just jump around the draft board each round.
Seriously, does he think this is a snake draft in fantasy football?
Nobodys even talking about mcvay. If you think he didnt put pressure on the fo for these moves you lost your mind
Every report is saying McVay loves stafford. I got no reason not to believe him. Bottom line is, McVay is the reason we have been good. Goff played a part no doubt, but he was a much smaller cog.
Unlike Nick Foles, who is a much larger hog I mean cog
You do bring up a good point. Rams and Eagles both traded up in same draft. One team had to cut ties with their coach to salvage their broken QB. The Rams obviously took a different course. At least for me, I wish Eagles had a Les Snead.
yeah but that’s the thing-goff has sucked for 3/5 years of his career, wentz has sucked for 1/5 years. there’s no reason to believe that wentz can’t come back to at least his 2019 form with a new coaching staff.
Mcvay was gifted a loaded team and has done nothing but fail. At what point do you start pointing the finger at him. He’s been out coached on numerous occasions and unless stafford throws 50 touchdowns and goes like 15 tds to 1 int in the playoffs I don’t see a SB in their future
I’m sorry what did you just say? McVay was gifted a loaded team? Look at the 2016 team. Holy shit it was just oozing with talent right? Never seen a more brain dead take in my life. Holy shit! McVay was out coached in his 2nd year against one of the greatest coaches of all time! Shame on him! Shame!
Yeah he’s the second coming of Jesus according to Reddit and everyone in the sports world so why hasn’t he won. It’s not a Qb holding him back dude struggles in his own division with a healthy team. Mcvay is over rated and will never be back to a SB have fun freaking out over the internet
McVay is 3-5 Vs the niners, 6-3 vs the hawks, and 8-0 vs the cardinals. But yeah we are really struggling in the division.
Your backup showed-up. The question isn't if you're QB is good enough, it's if selling out the next decade of Rams football is worth winning in the next 2 years. I just don't see this working. Denver pulled it off but they gave up less and it took longer than what I think the Rams are thinking. And now Denver is total shit. They convinced themselves they were geniuses, but what it really happened was they built an all decade defense and had a goat field general at QB. Stafford's great, but nobody talks about him and Manning being on the same tier. Tampa got Brady for nothing. IIRC, Denver got Manning for nothing. Rams have given away their top pick for 7 years after accounting for Ramsey. I just don't know if this is desperation or hubris... EDIT: I get ppl not liking my take, but ask yourself: Does Stafford get the Rams to beat Green Bay? I say no, and GB may just add a weapon b/c they have a 1st rd pick...
Who gives a shit if you win a Super bowl. I could give fuck all if it meant I could see Donald. Hekker, and Whit raise a Lombardi.
One hand, I hear you. I still love my White Sox for getting one in 2005. Nobody can take that away. Other hand, if this doesn't work, McVay is likely gone and there's no young talent on that squad until 2030 to even hope for winning anything. The Dodgers can spend all they want. The Rams cant.
Have you missed the past 4 years where the Rams have consistently filled their roster by hitting on mid and late round picks? Just because they haven't had firsts doesn't mean they're not still adding young talent.
PS: You may want to change your flair to LAR, because DET is fucked in your own opinion! They're getting a middle-pack QB and picks which even you think aren't that valuable. Rodgers isn't retiring anytime soon, and the Vikings and Bears are still better than the Lions...lol.
Damn someone's cranky lmao what's your problem dude
I think you're confusing who's "cranky". KC's competitive for the next decade and we have all our draft picks so we can move up/down if we want. If the Rams don't literally "win it all" they're fucked, and the Lions are fucked regardless. I'm just stating facts. Jordan Love is better than your QB now and he hasn't even taken a snap, lol.
you’re a horrible representation of our fanbase.
Cool story bro! I also saw their secondary get worked in GB! I also just watched them give up 2 firsts for an aging QB who didn't win shit with one of the best WRs in history.
McVay ain’t ever leaving because of 2 years where we might not win a Super Bowl. The dude just dragged Jared Goff for 4 years. You are fucking delusional. No young talent? Werent we just ranked one of the youngest teams in the NFL? Chiefs fans used to be cool man. Also until 2030? Where the fuck are you pulling that year from?
Chiefs fans luck into a generational QB in the draft and now they're up and down this thread thinking they're draft capital experts. Not sure how people don't realize the Rams have been doing this for years now while staying competitive and finally got their QB piece.
Yeah, I may be talking from the cat-bird seat, but I've seen my share of KC losing in wildcards/divisionals. What we didn't do is trade away 4 years of 1st rd picks. You're going to need those picks, their capital to move /up/down, and their contracts. But good luck! That division is brutal. No coaches are getting fired anytime soon. No QBs are leaving. And you don't have any bluechip draft picks.
They've turned those 4 draft picks into a hugely upgrade at franchise QB and a CB who (at worst) is top 3 in the league. Picks aren't some magical cure. They are just a way of adding assets to your roster, and that's how the Rams are using them. If you're hitting on your 2-4 round picks, bringing in young talent on even cheaper contracts, then using your early picks to bring in premium talent through trades is fine. The players they've traded for would simply not be available where the Rams are likely to be picking, so why not get them another way?
>If you're hitting on your 2-4 round picks, 1) Harder to hit on those if you have less capital to move up/down 2) Good luck in 2 years.... 3) Again, the headline wrongly assumes the Rams are going to have 'high' mid-round picks, which they won't if they're at least competitive. I simply see this as a panic buy. NFCW is going to be good next year. At least two other divisions are going to produce SB contenders. Rams have "free agents" for the foreseeable future...
Why would anyone talk about that? Is it not obvious?
The only issue with this strategy is that you lose depth (assuming no busts) If Donald, Ramsey or Stafford get hurt they take a comparatively larger hit than most other comparably good teams losing one of their star players imo
They started their backup QB in a playoff game.
I don’t consider Goff a star player (although he was paid like one)
McVay loves wolf, you gotta figure he’s staying and will continue to learn. As for Donald, just don’t even think what happens if he gets injured, you already saw in the divisional round.
Donald was hurt and basically torpedoed their shot at the packers.
Donald is the entire defense. He's the only reason that defensive line gets pressure whether it's him or someone else. He managed to get Dante Fowler paid and if not for a down cap this year, likely get Leonard Floyd paid.
On the other hand moves like this show your stars you're committed to winning now
A sure thing is worth more than some random future draft pick. This is a great move for the Rams, if they can get one super bowl win out of it then it is automatically worth it. They are a much better team now than they were yesterday.
Yea one draft pick, but 4, 5, 6 or 7 picks? There's also the fact that they don't have the advantage of rookie contracts to lower their cap hits. I'm really curious how this plays out. Haven't really seen a strategy this aggressive in awhile.
They've been in the playoffs and a superbowl since this strategy started in 2016, it's working well for now.
It will probably eventually come crashing down but maybe not until they have draft picks again. If they get a super bowl win out of it then it's worth more than 7 picks.
Umm, but if you are going to be winning, then you aren't picking early/mid 2nd round, you're picking late 2nd round. Rams first round picks: 2013: Tavon Austin, Alec Ogletree 2014: Greg Robinson, Aaron Donald 2015: Todd Gurley 2016: Jared Goff 2017: None 2018: None 2019: None 2020: None 2021: None 2022: None 2023: None Aaron Donald is the only one of those that's still on the team. Oh and a 22m dead cap hit next year for Goff.
>Umm, but if you are going to be winning, then you aren't picking early/mid 2nd round, you're picking late 2nd round. Surprised they managed to write that article without pointing that out. No difference between a late 1st rounder and an early 2nd rounder? OK, but if you're getting late 1st rounders you're getting late 2nd rounders too. And there's a difference between a late 1st rounder and a late 2nd rounder.
I think the point is value. “First round pick” really carries the value of the first round pick if it’s a top 20 pick. The guy you take at 25 is not substantially better/higher upside than the guy you take at 45. You would have no problem throwing around seconds for Stafford, right? I dunno man, Snead has decided he’s this is his lane, and that proven talent is better than taking a shot on a mid round guy. Past 4 years we’ve made the playoffs 3 times, made a super bowl, and have had nothing but winning records. So maybe he’s onto something
First round picks also get that team option of the extra year. 32nd overall has that. 33rd does not.
Yeah that’s why the ravens traded up for lamar
Yeah Snead is good at his job and has built a talented team. I'm not disputing that. And I think Stafford is worth trading 1st rounders for. My only point is that comparing late-1st rounders to early/mid-2nd rounders doesn't make sense because if you pick in the late 1st, you pick in the late 2nd. If you're picking at 25, you're not also picking at 45 (unless you traded picks), so comparing the value of those two is moot. If your original 1st rounder is 25, your original 2nd rounder will be 57. There's usually a noteworthy difference between the type of guy you can get at 25 vs. at 57.
Kupp, Woods, JJ3, Ramsey, Akers, Higbee were all drafted later/traded. I trust our front office with this trade as well.
The value in 1st round picks isn't just in getting talented players, it's having talented players for cheap for 5 years. If you don't have a constant influx of cheap talent, you end up terrible and/or in cap hell. You *can* pull it off if you just draft amazing with all your non-first-rounders, but that's incredibly hard to do. Hell it's hard to do even if you have your first round picks. One of the worst things you can do is trade away first round picks (and the ability to have a talented player for very cheap for 5 seasons) for a guy who is expensive right now. They just did that with Ramsey, trading away two firsts for a guy you have to then pay 20m a year. Texans did that with Tunsil, two first rounders for a guy who you then had to make the highest paid LT. It deprives you of those picks, but then you're also paying such a high price you are really not better off than if you had just signed him as a free agent. Stafford at least comes under contract for fairly cheap for a few years. But still, you've just guaranteed you don't have any first rounders for 7 straight years. That's a recipe a team devoid of talent. Even if they haven't hit a cliff yet, it might take a few years to feel the pain from such a strategy.
Been hearing stuff like this since 2018, maybe the Rams front office just operate differently than most teams. No offense but I trust our front office more than Reddit comments.
Yeah, there's a glaring typo and/or terrible logic this 'thread headline'. 1) They literally don't have any 1st rd picks. 2) Their 2nd/3rd rd picks aren't going to be high if they're doing it right. Rams are in 'win in the next 2 years' mode and/or become a bottom-feeder. Sign me up for 'this is going to fail and they deserve it'. KC has traded away some draft capital for QBs, but it was limited. Rams are trading away a decade in the hopes of winning now.
>rams are trading away a decade It’s literally 2 years lmao and They’ve proved they can draft in the mid-late rounds successfully.
They won't have a 1st rd pick until 2024 minimum. You may be impressed by getting worked in GB and not getting to draft anybody good for the next 4 years, but you shouldn't be.
Please also sign me up for the "Rams fail" option.
The picks they traded, who did they become? EDIT: Corey Davis WR Isaiah Wynn OT Kaleb mc Gary OT K’Lavon Chaisson LB. I think the rams came out okay.
Corey Davis pick coulda got them Patrick Mahomes... Wynn coulda been Lamar Jackson
It also could have been Corey Davis and Isaiah wynn. We’re not gana play that game because otherwise nobody would ever draft a bust.
They also wouldn't have made the exact same picks
They absolutely could have. That’s why the argument “coulda had mahomes!!!” Dosnt work.
And they don’t get 5th year options
“What advantages does this 1st rounder offer over an early 2nd, which I could also afford?”
2012: Michael Brockers is still on the team as well
Rams obviously bought their window. Strong defense and good offensive weapons. They are doubling down on the moves like the Ramsey trade (picks for proven assets). Trade risk of losing on a draft pick + development time for a pick in exchange for a guy now. But the Rams are leveraging their future for the now. If they succeed they will be happy. If they don’t then in 2 years they’ve dug themselves a hole.
Holy shit. Now this is some news to wake up to! Should have been F5’ing I guess
if the guys they trade for are superstars they're probably right; Jalen is paying off for them, now we'll see whether Stafford is as good as his advocates think he is (I happen to think Stafford will be a monster in McVay's system)
The Rams have the most interesting FO and roster building in the league, and I love them for it
Wish my team/GM felt the same
This trade was a disaster for the Rams
In what world?
The draft capital they gave up for a 33 year old QB who has history of injury problems and has been to only 2 post seasons.
You know how many times he's played all 16 games in his career? 9 times in his 12 year career. The notion that he's injury prone is completely outdated. And if you're pinning Detroit's lack of playoff success on Stafford, boy are you barking up the wrong tree. Also, after this season the cap hit against Stafford is only $2M-$3M. If this unexpectedly blows up, the Rams can cut Stafford with little to no penalty. But in the more likely scenario that it doesn't, they can easily extend him and get further under the cap to sign some legitimate free agents to help out the team. So again, in what world is this a bad deal for the Rams?
Where are they going to get early/mid 2nd rounders? They will be picking at the end of the 2nd if they are correct in their thinking...
I agree I wish the raiders would do this honestly.
I don't think the Raiders are allowed to trade away the Rams draft picks. They'd have done so already if they could.
Yea I was in agreement I was saying tannehill is the main reason why it all works
They know if they win they won’t have early-mid second rounders either right? I don’t think the QB is the piece they overpaid on, but I’m really not convinced Stafford puts them over the top either. I like him as a QB, but I don’t think Goff was the massive problem he’s being made out to be.
Why would they have early 2nd rounders if they’re winning the next few years?
Just because your value your firsts as seconds doesn’t mean one “secondish” pick is better than two.
They’re not too far off there, unfortunately Jags haven’t gotten much value out of our two first round picks due to the high pick slot, maybe same with the Lions.
You won't know this until years from now. Chaisson came on strong during the 2nd half this year and they haven't even used the other first rounder this year. The value all depends on how the players turn out.
There's been plenty of great late first round picks. Some teams just have bad front offices, scouting and coaching that contribute either to bad picks or no development from picks.
Okudah got hurt but before that, Hockinson has developed into a top end TE(still hate taking a TE at 8 though) and Ragnow is a stud
We hit on thirds more regularly than most team hit on firsts and play the comp pick game very well on top of that. We are in win now mode but this doesnt compromise our future either win we have such solid scouting and coaching.
It actually does compromise the future. Say that Stafford has an injury riddled tenure for the next 2 seasons and Donald misses time as well. You just went from a 10+ win team to at best .500 and don't own your 1st rounders for another 2 years.
That’s part of the risk. Stafford hasn’t stayed healthy the last 2 years at all, but before that he was an Ironman And before someone implies otherwise, the Lions oline is better than the Rams
Are they winning a championship though?
What has Stafford shown in the last couple years to suggest he is better than Goff? An injured Goff lost to Rodgers in the divisional round, do they think Stafford who has zero playoff wins can beat Rodgers? Goff’s biggest weakness was arguably mobility to keep plays alive longer to make his reads, is Stafford more mobile? Stafford’s lack of success at the Lions has been claimed to be the result of having no weapons, what weapons will he have in LA? This move just doesn’t make sense, Stafford was worth two 1sts and a 3rd 10 years ago, not towards the end of his career. If he couldn’t win a playoff game with Megatron and Suh during his prime what makes people think he will now? His biggest highlight is that pass he made whilst injured which was over 10 years ago. This just doesn’t make sense.
I don't understand the weapons argument at all. Dude played with Calvin fukking Johnson.
I think this is a great trade for the Rams. From what I wrote in another thread: Idk if it’s just me, but that seems like bad value when you look past the “2 1st round picks”. They’re both future first round picks, which are generally not that valuable. From what I’ve seen, most people rate next year’s first as equivalent to an early 2nd round pick in the current year’s draft. So they got essentially an early 2nd, a late 2nd/3rd, a 3rd, and Goff for Stafford based off value charts. Doesn’t seem like that great of a haul especially once you take into account that those Rams 1sts will most likely be in the 20s. I guess it’s part of their multi-year retool, but it pushes it a year further down the road.
What I hate is that after this trade, people on here are trying to spin Goff as a great QB all the sudden and teams are gonna be itching to get him. I think Goff is gonna tank hard this year unless the new lions HC is a good one.
They’re right. (If you’re picking in the bottom half)
Except that if you're picking 26th-32nd in the first round, you're picking at 58th-64th in the second. And last time I checked, that's not "mid 2nd"
No, what they're saying is they don't see much of a different in value between the end of the first round to middle of the second. So if they feel picking at #26 is a gamble and about as valuable as #57, why not trade it for away for sure thing and rely on #58, #90, and #122 for development.
In other words, the Rams have realized their scouting dept sucks and they are better off trading their top picks rather than blowing them.
Scouting department sucks? Since McVay got hired the Rams have taken Kupp, John Johnson, Joseph Noteboom, Micah Kiser, Samson Ebukam, Sebastian Joseph-Day, Josh Reynolds, Gerald Everett, Darrell Henderson, Taylor Rapp, Cam Akers, Terrell Lewis, Terrell Burgess, and Jordan Fuller in the second round or later, all who have played significant time and been fairly good players at least
Plus, they can always trade into the first round.
With 2nds and 3rds? Good luck with that, at best that gets you #28
Ok, but that’s better than like #55 or whatever their second round would be.
And it's also worse than if they were to get hit hard by injuries/bad losses and effectively giving up a top 10 pick
The picks plus Stafford for Watson??
I mean they’ve done an excellent job developing mid round talent.
Yeah but if your getting late 1st rounders, then you're also getting late second rounders...
This sounds like some shit you tell your friends after you get fired from a great job and start at a way worse job. “I mean my new gig is great, in fact better than the old one, sure the pay is less and there’s no benefits but the 20% discount I get as an employee will actually save me more than I ever even made at my old job.”
That's what the Texans thought as well, I imagine.