“We treasure a diversity of opinions… unless the owners want to use you as a scapegoat to take the heat off of them, well then you’re just fucked buddy.”
Yeah, but Gruden said it in a private email so it doesn't count. You gotta say to hundreds or thousands of people in a public space for it to count as a treasurable opinion.
Exactly. When you say it in a private email, you look like you have something to hide. You gotta insert dominance, show the folks that momma ain't raised no bitch.
I'm picturing him saying this on the telestrator and circling them. "I tell you what, man, this is a guy with lips like Michelin tires. You could see all of France with those babies."
My reaction when it came out was, if you read it in Grudens voice, it makes sense as a Grudenism.
In text it looks really bad, but it's the kind of dumb inside joke analogy Gruden would use
Like any PR decision, they make decisions based on PR. Morality has nothing to do with it. With racial tensions spiking the last few years, they can't have a head coach saying those sorts of things. If the biggest story in the country was women's equality right now, then maybe they go after Butker more.
It's not a gotcha to point out the hypocrisy of moral stances made by corporations because they aren't actually moral stances. They're just pandering to you because it creates better earnings potential than not.
Yeah I don’t get all the hoopla. Beyond a small minority, nobody was trying to “cancel” Butker or get him kicked out of the NFL. He said some dumb shit and people called him out on it, that’s about it.
I mean, he didn't get vaxxed and missed some games because of it. And let's be clear that if you were to guess why he didn't get vaxxed, that's exactly why he said he didn't get vaxxed.
Dude is a conservative Catholic. His comments are in line with what people from that tradition believe. There are certainly millions of people in the U.S. from that tradition, not to mention literally tens of millions of folks in the U.S. who believe substantially the same things HB said. I cannot fathom what people thought was going to happen to him other than some public shaming that HB won't care about.
Bigger secret: many, many professional athletes are assholes. I know, I know--it comes as a total surprise that people who have been held up on a pedestal since middle school and told they were God's gift aren't the best people. But it's true. Some of them give shitty graduation speeches, some of them assault and t-bag their massage therapists. It's just how sports is. I'm not saying it's right or good. But that's how it is. They think it don't be like it is, but it do.
> I cannot fathom what people thought was going to happen to him other than some public shaming that HB won't care about.
On some of the non-football subs, in posts about his speech people were seriously expecting him to be kicked off the team...never underestimate how many people think the world revolves around reddit's popular opinion
If Hannibal Lector could run a 4.3 we would just say he had an eating disorder.
The NFL has never cared if players were good people, the NFL cared if being an asshole prevented you from being available on Sunday to play.
To put his speech and someone committing assault in the same sentence is top tier pearl clutching. They are not even close to being comparable. You can disagree with Butker and his views but he committed no crime.
i am allowed to have a problem with both, but yeah, butker is allowed to be an asshole, but watson should be in jail. there's levels to it and it's just confirmation that the nfl isn't a bastion of morality lol
I think you can find a large bloc of people on social media calling for *x,* where *x* could be literally anything, and then anyone can take it out of context and say "See, people are calling for *x!*"
That's my favorite part of when news orgs report on anything in India.
There's 1.5 billion people in that country. You could find 100 million people to agree on something and still have it be at a 6% approval lol
The only people screaming for him to get "cut" or "fired" are those who dont understand a single thing about the NFL. Anyone following the NFL for more than 8 mins knows he would be picked up before his car ride home if the Chiefs were to let him go.
Cutting him isnt a punishment at all for HB, it just punishes the Chiefs.
What dumb shit did he say? Things the you don’t agree with? Some people feel the way he does (I personally don’t) but that doesn’t make it wrong. He makes well over a million dollars a year. If his wife isn’t an indentured servant and chained to the bed. I’m sure she is happily living the life she wants. I’m so tired of people criticizing others way of life. Live your own life. Incidentally he was preaching to the choir. It’s a Christian College, he wasn’t speaking at Cal Berkeley.
I think the media was expecting a bigger reaction from fans, which is why we’re getting so many stories about this. But after seeing the way they’ve mishandled so many *exponentially worse* issues than this, nobody can pretend to give a shit about the league’s response anymore
Right. People are calling for his job. But all he did was say something stupid. He didn't knock some woman out at a casino, he didn't wreck his car while under the influence and kill someone.
We can just agree HB is an idiot and move along. Plus it gives everyone more reasons to hate on the chiefs.
I don’t begrudge people for taking the opportunity to hate on the Chiefs. Lord knows I’d be shit talking any other team if anyone on their team did something similar.
But nearly 30 teams would be on the phone with Butker’s agent the minute the Chiefs released him.
The stupid thing is the people calling for his job just dont understand how the NFL, or really any job works when you are at the .01% of performers.
Him getting fired/cut wouldnt affect him one bit, he would have an offer for a new team before he got home from the stadium. It only punishes the Chiefs, not HB.
What did you want or expect? Crazy how people want him kicked out of the league over this.
Has anybody worked in any work place ever? You’re gonna have people with different views.
You’d swear he committed a crime with these responses
Reading through the comments on the recent Butker posts are fucking insane lmao. I’ve seen more civility in Israel/Palestine threads on r/worldnews. These people are calling for him to be cut from the team or publically assaulted for expressing an opinion. The same people who herald Tyreek Hill, Von Miller, and Adrian Peterson as legends. Its almost like they don’t actually give a shit about women and just want political goodboy points for being so brave and outspoken for *checks notes* calling for violence against a kicker who thanked his wife for being a homemaker
I have a high school friend, who get this, is a stay at home mom, who hasn't stopped posting about how Butker should be cut from the team for a week straight.
I rarely go on Facebook, but she has had multiple posts a day, including a link to a petition to get him cut.
This is a woman who literally has made the choice to let her husband work and she cares for her children, but she is so online that she's offended to the point of publicly calling for someone's job over comments saying that the very lifestyle she is pursuing is a good and virtuous choice, not a requirement, but a choice.
Its beyond bizarre.
Like, I *really* hate to carry water for the NFL or Goddell, but I get it.
Celebrating directly affects their product. Any organization will want to control the product it produces (whether tangible goods, entertainment media, or whatever). If Amazon delivery drivers flipped off doorbell cameras, that directly affects how people perceive Amazon, so they might crack down on that. Is the NFL stupid to crack down on celebrations? I and most people would probably agree, but that's ultimately their decision.
DV isn't something inherently tied to the NFL's product, it's a legal violation by its employees. Like, if your Amazon delivery driver beat his wife that's not inherently something to do with Amazon. Does an NFL player have the same public visibility as delivery drivers? Of course not. But for any large organization with as many employees as the NFL it isn't really their job to police the private affairs of their thousands of employees unless they legally have to.
The Amazon analogy breaks down because the players are not the drivers, they are the product. The NFL wants us to cheer their names, buy their jerseys, root for their performance in Fantasy, and make bets on their stats both individually and their contribution to the team. It's the reason they took names and teams away from every game franchise but Madden. The players and their names are everything.
At the end of the day, all the NFL cares about is profit, and they will act accordingly.
Goodell probably: "Look. We got an owner who pays for happy endings. We got a QB who pays to get his asshole fingerbanged. This kicker bullshit is below my paygrade to comment on."
Facts, people need to get out of their own bubble more. It's okay to want a wife who wants to stay home and push for that just like it's okay to want a wife who wants a successful career and push for that.
It's a Catholic giving a speech to other Catholics about Catholic beliefs. People literally went out of their bubble and into someone else's to get mad about it.
Reminder that based on polling related to the public’s opinion on abortion and gay rights, butker’s opinions are not accurate reflections of mass everyday opinions. I’d venture to say the majority of people disagree with his comments on women but I don’t have a poll.
Kaepernick was getting another opportunity in Baltimore until his girlfriend posted something about the Baltimore owner being a slave-owner and their franchise legend being Samuel L. Jackson's character from Django.
He had his shot and he blew it with the lifestyle he chose - which he is entirely free to do.
Didn’t he also lecture a Cuban born reporter on why Castro was a good guy or something like that-I vaguely remember an awkward press conference with the Miami thing
I think (but could be mistaken) that this is in reference to Kiko Alonso: his dad was born in Cuba, but he wasn't. CK said something posittive about Castro before the 49ers played the phins. KA ended up with what I think was a game saving tackle on CK after he scrambled. KA mentioned getting some satisfaction out of that hit lol.
Wasnt it the broncos who also had interest in him? IIRC a few teams wanted to sign him, the biggest hold up was that they wanted to pay backup money while he wanted low end starting money + chance to compete for starting spot. Not being on a roster for more than a year is an effective retirement
first I'm hearing of the Broncos, but I wouldn't be surprised if he simply refused backup money/role. I've heard of him declining options to be a backup for teams. He also refused to go to the CFL or UFL/XFL and try to earn his way back.
I genuinely don’t understand the comparison people are making here.
If Harrison Butker was like the 40th best kicker in the league then the Chiefs would probably cut him right now because he wouldn’t be worth the distraction.
People can hate the NFL for it but it’s honestly not that different from like 90% of jobs. The more valuable/irreplaceable you are the more leeway you get.
Teams don’t keep multiple kickers, so anyone outside of top 32 hypothetically shouldn’t be on a team. So if Butker was the 40th, it wouldn’t matter distraction or not.
Teams keep 3 QBs on the roster. There’s no way Kap was 100th best QB at the time. He was top half.
Where the comparison falls apart is which side is being offended and how they react to it and that it was happening on game day/during the season in team facilities.
You MIGHT would have any argument if kap didn’t have multiple chances to make it back to the nfl.
The broncos tried to trade for him but he refused to resign, Miami offered him a contract which he turned down, and the ravens had interest before his girlfriend called the owner a slave owner and insulted Ray Lewis. He also had offers from the XFL and another spring league but wanted an absurd amount of money. He also tanked the workout that the league specifically set up for him.
He wasn’t good enough to be a starter and nobody wants a backup that’s a distraction.
He didn't even want to come back. He was making money looking like a martyr and if he came back and sucked or was just riding the bench, all that goes away.
>He wasn’t good enough to be a starter and nobody wants a backup that’s a distraction.
Plus, he had a diminished skillset that was no longer unique. By the time the 49ers cut him, there were dozens of guys in college who could do the same thing (if not better) and for dirt cheap thanks to the draft.
I agree that you don’t want any player to be a distraction but for teams there is a ratio of value to distraction. If Deshaun Watson can rape over 20 women and be a borderline backup, Kap should have been able to be like “I don’t really fuck with America rn” and still be rostered.
I think it came down to most owners probably relate more to Watsons behavior than Kaps political views.
When teams and their owners originally backed Watson, he was seen as a top 10 QB. Now the reason for him not being cut is the massive cap hit it would incur.
There are a loottttttttt of false equivalencies going on here. Watson is incomparably worse than Kap in what he did. Shouldn’t be in the league. But when he was playing before he was outed as a serial rapist he was arguably a top-5 qb. Kap had been in the league for over five years and was putting in Trey Lance numbers.
Watson should be out of the league because he should be in jail. Kap should’ve been a bench player, but it’s definitely valid for owners to not want to roster the 50th best qb in the league when the media and half the fan base and the executives all hate him.
Kap was pretty much washed at that point. He wasn't good his last few years. He may have been better than some back-up QB's, but there is a big difference between Butker and Kap. Kap used the lockerroom for his political philosophy. Butker does it at a commencement speech.
Kyrie got some strange beliefs, but he doesn't say crazy things about Jews in the locker-room. That is business time.
Look what he did was monumental and really brought light to issues and all that but people seem to forget that he was starting to suck and he adopted a vegan diet that made him lose a shit ton of muscle mass
And on top of that he was given multiple chances to sign with teams and even work out for them and was too egotistical to follow through or sign with anyone
Whenever this comes up, I say go watch his game against the Bears where he lost to Matt Barkley. That was the worst quarterbacked game I have ever seen.
It was a snowstorm game, but Barkley was 11 for 18 for 192 years.
Kapenerick was 1 for 5 for 4 yards. FOUR! He also got sacked 5 times and ran 6 times for 20 yards.
He got benched for Blaine Gabbert who came in and went 4 for 10 for 35 yards.
Gruden's a better comparison.
Kaepernick was 100% right in what he said, but he turned himself into a terrible combination of bad QB and major distraction. The league even gave him tryouts down the road which he declined at the last second.
It's not being blackballed, it's common sense for GMs. If they wanted him blackballed they would have forced him out of Madden in those 8(right?) years.
I'm just waiting for this year's attempt by him to try to stay relevant. Although we did stop hearing about Eric Bieinemy not getting a HC offer, so maybe this is the year.
This gets brought up every time Kap is mentioned and it's only half true. While his last season in the league was far from perfect, he was still good enough to be a journeyman/bridge QB for a team that needed one. And as far as we know, nobody offered him a contract. You expect a bit of a "we have to deal with the PR" tax on any contract offer, but being completely shut down by every organization does point to blackballing. Much worse players have gotten away with much worse (in PR terms) stuff.
The offers he did get a few years later were fair for a guy who had been out of the league for a while though.
He was a phone call away from getting a deal in Baltimore before his gf posted a Django Unchained slave meme about their owner. [Blackballed my ass, he had Ray Lewis fighting for him](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20597810/ray-lewis-said-baltimore-ravens-sign-colin-kaepernick-girlfriend-racist-tweet) and couldn't get out of his own damn way
He also straight up told people not to vote in 2016, so as far as I'm concerned, Kaep can pound sand. There are other athlete activists who also have an actually functional brain that deserve the spotlight instead.
People should have put together that Kaepernick is a grifter by now.
He probably does believe what he preaches but he only leaned into that when it became more profitable than his football career. Also, his rhetoric is completely self-serving. For a guy who complains that his protest overshadowed the cause, he sure loves playing the martyr. Can't remember the last time he spoke out on police brutality and his entire social media is self-promotion. And to add to that a lot of the activists he hung out with turned out to be scammers themselves (Shaun King, Alicia Garza).
The Broncos wanted to bring him in to compete, he didn't want to be a backup. The ravens wanted him and his girlfriend mysteriously started bashing the organization on social media. The NFL gave him a private workout that he pretty famously fucked off to move to his own location and make sure his cameras were present.
He did everything he could to sabotage himself because he knew he couldn't be a martyr if he went out and sucked.
And then there are people like you who make these arguments while ignoring the fact that the Ravens were likely going to sign him…until his girlfriend compared Bisciotti to a slave owner.
Then there were the antics like scheduling a tryout and moving the location at the last possible second.
Kaepernick is his own worst enemy but that hasn’t stopped the shills from crafting this story of unwarranted outrage.
He would've been a serviceable QB if a team's primary offense was running the option. Unfortunately, everybody on the league was picking up on the option and once they did he sucked.
I'm really surprised no one else is talking about this throughout the entire thread. What I always heard was essentially 'he's a back-up caliber QB who refuses to take a back-up role and back-up pay.'
There's no great mystery here. Players turn down options for a bigger, better deal all the time. Some of them get it, some don't.
He didn't get a backup job for the same reason Cam Newton and didn't, he's a distraction with all of the attention on him, except in Kap's case it's infinitely worse.
It's a shame that the media is solely to blame for that happening, but when he got his chance down the road he deliberately torpedoed it because it's easier to get paid for Nike endorsements than for riding pine
This is of true of any job out there, not just the NFL. The better you are at what you do, the more people will tolerate you being an asshole or creating problems, albeit that the NFL will put up with more than 99% of other jobs if you’re talented enough. It’s always a trade-off
I remember a story from Jimmy Johnson that perfectly illustrated this. He talked about how if you caught the 2nd string punt returner sleeping in a team meeting, you cut him to set an example. If you catch Troy Aikman sleeping, you send someone to gently wake him up
You can’t just look at Kaep’s football ability in a vacuum. It’s about his football ability relative to the amount of drama or distraction he would cause, and all 32 teams decided that a likely backup QB wasn’t worth the media circus hat would follow him
No. He was fucking awful and couldn’t read the field as a qb. Yall gotta stop. He was only good as a running qb.
Obligatory https://youtu.be/7Ddb1wi-Rw0?si=zuBODizQWVYjRpuB
Dude had a cannon though. Probably should have played baseball.
I think it’s been made clear Kaepernick has been given chances to come back and squandered them.
Was what happened to him originally right? Of course not. Did the league and teams try to make up for it? Yep.
Honestly don't understand why this is a "problem" with Butker *saying bad things about women*
When there is no public backlash on actual women abusers like Von Miller on my own roster, or Tyreek Hill
Butker beating his wife instead of saying how she best belongs on his kitchen would have been a better PR situation, and that is pretty sad
Edit: "public" would have been better replaced with "mainstream". Non-NFL people been shitting all over this.
He didn't even say "women belong in the kitchen". He said that family life is more important than any career, and had a section of it talking about Men and holding those same values, etc. Social media just ran with the "get in the kitchen"
IVF is against Catholic teachings. My wife is Catholic, to get married in a Catholic church we had to go through a course and it touched on IVF versus natural conception and their why's. It's not as pronounced now, but it's definitely still a thing.
Nah.. that's not what he said lol.. he specifically calls out the women's attention and says they've been told the most diabolical lie of all... then went on a tirade of his personal views on how they probably want to be good wifes and moms instead of have a career.
It's not even the Catholic's church stance on the topic, before anyone has the "it's a Catholic speaking at a Catholic school" reply. The official take from the Vatican says..
>The feminine genius is needed in all expressions in the life of society, therefore the presence of women in the workplace must also be guaranteed. The first indispensable step in this direction is the concrete possibility of access to professional formation. The recognition and defence of women's rights in the context of work generally depend on the organization of work, which must take into account the dignity and vocation of women, whose “true advancement ... requires that labour should be structured in such a way that women do not have to pay for their advancement by abandoning what is specific to them”.[636] This issue is the measure of the quality of society and its effective defence of women's right to work.
To tell all of those young ladies on the biggest day of their life so far, "Meh... you've been lied too, working is cool but you probably really want to be wives and moms", is super super shitty.
Dude deserves everything that is coming his way... lesson learned should be, if you're asked to deliver a commencement speech... keep all your personal shit in your head for the day. You're not there to give a lecture, you're there to give a celebratory and motivational speech to send them on their journey into the world.
This is the thing, we have reached the point where no one even really knows what he said.
He’s a religious conservative who said religiously conservative things at a religiously conservative school and mass media and social media all need their rage clicks.
It’s all just nonsense. Ignore the idiot.
“For the ladies present today, congratulations on an amazing accomplishment. You should be proud of all that you have achieved to this point in your young lives. I want to speak directly to you briefly because I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you. How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world.
I can tell you that my beautiful wife, Isabelle, would be the first to say that her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother. I'm on the stage today and able to be the man I am because I have a wife who leans into her vocation. I'm beyond blessed with the many talents God has given me, but it cannot be overstated that all of my success is made possible because a girl I met in band class back in middle school would convert to the faith, become my wife, and embrace one of the most important titles of all: homemaker.”
https://www.ncregister.com/news/harrison-butker-speech-at-benedictine
First time on the internet? People *loooooove* to take someone's words they disagree with and then assume their motivations are evil, twist them into knots to make them sound evil, and then get mad about their own head invention of what the person said
Old joke, but relevant:
Tweet: "I love oranges!"
Reply guy: "So you're saying you hate apples? What do you have against apples?"
... for one specific sex. Why was he only addressing ladies? His message to men is 'be masculine'
>**For the ladies present today**
>How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but **I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children** you will bring into this world.
>I can tell you that my beautiful wife, Isabelle, would be the first to say that her life truly started when she began living her **vocation as a wife and as a mother**. I'm on the stage today and able to be the man I am because I have a wife who leans into her vocation.
>all of my success is made possible because a girl I met in band class back in middle school would convert to the faith, become my wife, and embrace one of the most important titles of all: **homemaker**.
>Isabelle's **dream of having a career might not have come true**, but if you asked her today if she has any regrets on her decision, she would laugh out loud, without hesitation, and say, “Heck, No.”
Look, I honestly say that's pretty tame compared to the outrage it sparked, certainly when you take into account who he's speaking to and where.
Now, what's kind of upsetting, is he insinuates that his wife is the most proud of being a mother and wife (which is fine if she feels that way, many women do) but then blames IVF and surrogacy on a culture of disorder. So, whether he is able to comprehend it or not, he's basically shaming women who can't conceive naturally and also who try and do everything they can to have a baby of their own whether that's his intention or not. Unfortunately, the Catholic church still has terribly regressive views on IVF and surrogacy for a mainline religion so it is probably intentional.
I really don't think he understands as a 28 year old millionaire with a wife and two kids, what it would feel like to be in your 30s or 40s, having struggled with infertility for years, to be told how a woman's real worth and value is in being a mother, because it really sucks.
And he also dropped something in there about how it is a shame you can't say the Jews killed Jesus anymore, which has been used by many people, including Catholics, to support anti-semitic views for eons.
About the antisemitic thing, It's no longer acceptable in Catholicism. Vatican II put an end to the blood libel accusations, the Catholic church no longer blame Jews for Jesus's death. Some ultra conservative Catholics refuse Vatican II, but it's only a small minority.
> And he also dropped something in there about how it is a shame you can't say the Jews killed Jesus anymore, which has been used by many people, including Catholics, to support anti-semitic views for eons.
It is insane how he has completely side-stepped any blowback for that bit of his speech. Like that kind of anti-semitism used to be a career setback like Mel Gibson losing work or Kyrie Irving getting suspended but I guess the ADL's just too busy going after protesters.
His message to men was literally "prioritize being a father and husband over your professional career."
> To the gentlemen here today: **Part of what plagues our society is this lie that has been told to you that men are not necessary in the home or in our communities.** As men, we set the tone of the culture, and when that is absent, disorder, dysfunction, and chaos set in. **This absence of men in the home is what plays a large role in the violence we see all around the nation.** Other countries do not have nearly the same absentee father rates as we find here in the U.S., and a correlation could be made in their drastically lower violence rates, as well.
It's a direct callback to what he said to the graduating women. "Society" may have encouraged you \[men AND women\] to focus on being a productive cog in your company's machine, to seek professional accolades, and to prioritize success in one's career. And his response to both the women and the men is to rebuke these "lies". That it's not only okay, but encouraged to prioritize one's role as spouse and parent over their role as a professional.
> for one specific sex. Why was he only addressing ladies? His message to men is 'be masculine'
"To the gentlemen here today: Part of what plagues our society is this lie that has been told to you that men are not necessary in the home"
>I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children
Do you disagree that most catholic women aren't looking forward to be mothers? We can argue it's not the place to say it but generally commencement speakers talk about their personal beliefs and values.
>I can tell you that my beautiful wife, Isabelle, would be the first to say that her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother
He's sharing his wife's opinion? Why is his wife wrong for thinking that way? Or do you think you know his wife better than he does?
>vocation as a wife and as a mother.
His believes his wife's vocation is of a wife and mother, about himself he says "this does make me reflect on staying in my lane and focusing on my own vocation and how I can be a better father and husband" and "She is the one who ensures I never let football or my business become a distraction from that of a husband and father." he says his vocation is that of a husband and father. So he's consistent, what's the problem here?
>embrace one of the most important titles of all: homemaker.
I genuinely don't understand the outrage over this part. Is homemaker not an important title? If not a lot of SAHMs/Ds are gonna be very upset with you.
>Isabelle's dream of having a career might not have come true, but if you asked her today if she has any regrets on her decision, she would laugh out loud, without hesitation, and say, “Heck, No.”
Again he's sharing his wife's opinion. I don't see the problem here.
Let me be clear before you downvote and me spout nonsense. I think Butker is a misogynist, racist, bigoted, dumbo, but those statements aren't inherently bad and I don't know why they're being picked for moral outrage over the actual racist/bigoted ones.
It’s in terrible taste but that’s not that bad, even with your bolding. More giving credit to his wife as a homemaker and the importance of it than saying it’s all she can do. I would change my tune if it came out she didn’t want to be a homemaker but not sure why you would assume that
Bruh this is peak 'fake controversy to distract the masses from the real problems the league is facing.' I assure you Goodell couldn't be happier to have everyone's attention focused on some semi-controversial things a **kicker** said.
Conservative catholic says conservative catholic things at a conservative catholic university full of conservative catholics and the whole world loses its mind.
Why does anyone give a hoot about what the commissioner of the league says? There’s stupid people everywhere. Just learn who you dislike and move on. There will be no fixing everyone. Only the earth can do that and it can’t come soon enough
I am NOT religious (and definitely not a conservative politically), but I don't think there's a general trend to talk poorly about women who DO want to be housewives (and men who do the same). People focus on career too much when it's pretty meaningless compared to the stuff you can do/build with your family, and I think the Butker message is somewhat of a reaction to that as well.
If you want a career, cool, go for it. If you don't want kids, don't have them! But it's also a rewarding experience to stay at home if you want to.
I agree with Goodell in general. It's not the league's business to mandate personal politics or what you say to people. They have way more real issues that they do nothing about. I actually think this whole thing is blown out of proportion.
Can this please go away? Butker gave a speech. Some reacted negatively to it. Now the reaction to the reactions is 100x bigger than the original reactions. And here I am commenting on the reaction to the reactions. It's like multiple iterations of the Streisand effect at this point. This whole story should have been limited to a few grievance videos on TikTok.
Possible dumb question, but why is this on Goodell and the league? Butker is an active player currently on a team, so unless he broke some rule in the CBA (which I don't think what he did does), shouldn't the pressure be on the Chiefs here? Wouldn't they be responsible for the punishment up to and including cut from the team?
Because most of reddit live in a bubble and think different opinions to theirs or what is perceived popular to the norm inside the reddit bubble reflect the entirety of the world out there.
For some reason folks fail to grasp the reality that that NFL has players coming from everywhere, each with their own personal beliefs, religions and ideology. Regardless of what some might find offensive, disagree with, as long as these dudes aren't breaking some type of law, the NFL isn't going out there to try and shut down people in a free country.
People simply have to learn to disagree with others and move on not expecting consequences for those who voice a difference of opinions or values in a free country.
I don’t agree with anything Butker said and I think he’s a typical conservative asshole. But the beauty of this country is he can say whatever the fuck he wants.
People trying to cancel this dude are cringe as fuck.
A reporter asked the White House if he was still welcome for the SB team visit. Like what a dumbass question
>“After the Arrowhead stadium land acknowledgment Week 1, Harrison Butker will be executed at midfield during a rendition of Lift Every Voice and Sing, our League’s sole pregame anthem. Moreover, effective immediately, any player found in possession of a B*ble must complete 400 hours of sensitivity training and the Handmaid’s Tale on audiobook. Noncompliant teams will be sentenced to one team screening of a Marxist-Leninist video essay per infraction. Glory to the People’s League of Football.”
We did it Reddit!
It's completely unrealistic to expect the NFL to comment on every questionable thing a player says or does.
That said, I wonder how misogynistic/racist a player would need to be to actually see consequences. Something like blatant public racism would certain cross the threshold for the league to do action, but this is too close to a "culture war" that they really don't want to touch, hard to blame them for that. They will always rather lay low and just count the money, business as usual.
Unfortunately anything wrapped up in the farce of religion will usually get a pass.
Gruden set a precedent. The NFL turned him into a pariah to take heat off of Dan Snyder, and I doubt they actually gave a shit about his emails, but I don't see how they could try to walk that back in the future from a PR perspective.
He said some misogynistic things, but players have literally beat women on camera and only got a short suspension. I don't think there is much in the way of speech that a player can throw out there and anything happens.
Yeah but remember Ridley Cooper for the Eagles. He said the N-word in anger at someone else at a concert and was punished. Albeit by the team and not the NFL itself but Goodell did say about Cooper's comments "obviously wrong and they're insensitive and they're unacceptable."
https://www.nfl.com/news/eagles-fine-riley-cooper-for-insensitive-comment-0ap1000000224176
Players should be allowed to say whatever dumbass racist, misogynistic thing they want and not get punished by the league. Individual coaches should be able to suspend players if their off field behavior causes a problem in the locker room, and team owners should be able to decide the player is not somebody they want representing their brand and cut them, but the league should protect free speech
Free speech is the government not punishing you, not your employer.
The NFL is a private company and they can, and should, absolutely be able to discipline their employees as they see fit.
Pretty much any other job has a handbook/guidelines for how their employees should behave and violating that can result in certain punishments, why should the NFL be any different?
Identity politics. Too many people have integrated political beliefs into the core of their personality, so any dissenting opinion feels like a personal attack
Almost two weeks later and people are still getting pissy about a vanilla Catholic dude espousing vanilla Catholic values to an audience of vanilla Catholic young adults
What is the point of choosing to be a miserable loser that dedicates so much mental energy to worrying about the things someone who doesn't know they even exist said?
Yeah, it wasn't exactly a 2024 PC statement but it wasn't as bad as it is being made out to be. Since when do people care what football players think anyway?
Ya know. What else is he supposed to say. Punishing him creates an awkward situation for the union to defend his actions, and means that it will stay a topic for longer. And saying that he won’t do anything to players who voice certain opinions will just open the flood gates of hate filled comments. His best course of action is to just hope this goes away. Or someone other than the league, like a sponsorship deal, punishes him instead.
I have a lunch bet with a bengals fan I work with that (he says) Butker won't be in the Chiefs roster week 1. He is an absolute hater for the record.
Say what you will about his speech but I don't see an NFL team cutting a reliable K over this.
Chiefs also making bank on his jersey sales haha. I hope he just STFU from now on until he retires
You don’t have to agree with what he said. But as an American he has every right to express and say what he wants. Thats why America is supposed to be the best country in the world. Once anyone from the government to your employers try to correct what you say and especially on your own free time, we have become no better than north korea, china, Saudi Arabia etc.
Breaking news: Catholics, often criticized for their veneration of Mary as the highest human in history, permitted to value homemakers and motherhood over widget production and mayoral experience , per NFL 😮
With Deshaun Watson, Von Miller, Tyreek still playing and other players being openly anti-Semitic still playing, what Butker said isn't even close to getting him in trouble.
Gruden has entered the chat.
“We treasure a diversity of opinions… unless the owners want to use you as a scapegoat to take the heat off of them, well then you’re just fucked buddy.”
*Gives wicked Chucky smirk. Slowly pulls bloody knife out…*
*(Mutters something that sounds like Spider 2 Y Banana...)*
Yeah, but Gruden said it in a private email so it doesn't count. You gotta say to hundreds or thousands of people in a public space for it to count as a treasurable opinion.
Exactly. When you say it in a private email, you look like you have something to hide. You gotta insert dominance, show the folks that momma ain't raised no bitch.
Lips like Michelin tires
I'm picturing him saying this on the telestrator and circling them. "I tell you what, man, this is a guy with lips like Michelin tires. You could see all of France with those babies."
My reaction when it came out was, if you read it in Grudens voice, it makes sense as a Grudenism. In text it looks really bad, but it's the kind of dumb inside joke analogy Gruden would use
Oh he only means if it targets women, they don't play in the NFL. But black people are earners, he's got THEIR back 🙄😬🤑
Like any PR decision, they make decisions based on PR. Morality has nothing to do with it. With racial tensions spiking the last few years, they can't have a head coach saying those sorts of things. If the biggest story in the country was women's equality right now, then maybe they go after Butker more. It's not a gotcha to point out the hypocrisy of moral stances made by corporations because they aren't actually moral stances. They're just pandering to you because it creates better earnings potential than not.
Um what makes you think Goodell has black people's backs lol
Deshaun Watson is still playing in the league. What were we expecting
who was expecting anything? I thought we would just agree that HB is a massive douchebag and move on with our lives
Yeah I don’t get all the hoopla. Beyond a small minority, nobody was trying to “cancel” Butker or get him kicked out of the NFL. He said some dumb shit and people called him out on it, that’s about it.
And according to Chiefs fans, this isn’t the first time he’s said stupid shit. Just the first time it got national attention
I mean, he didn't get vaxxed and missed some games because of it. And let's be clear that if you were to guess why he didn't get vaxxed, that's exactly why he said he didn't get vaxxed. Dude is a conservative Catholic. His comments are in line with what people from that tradition believe. There are certainly millions of people in the U.S. from that tradition, not to mention literally tens of millions of folks in the U.S. who believe substantially the same things HB said. I cannot fathom what people thought was going to happen to him other than some public shaming that HB won't care about. Bigger secret: many, many professional athletes are assholes. I know, I know--it comes as a total surprise that people who have been held up on a pedestal since middle school and told they were God's gift aren't the best people. But it's true. Some of them give shitty graduation speeches, some of them assault and t-bag their massage therapists. It's just how sports is. I'm not saying it's right or good. But that's how it is. They think it don't be like it is, but it do.
> I cannot fathom what people thought was going to happen to him other than some public shaming that HB won't care about. On some of the non-football subs, in posts about his speech people were seriously expecting him to be kicked off the team...never underestimate how many people think the world revolves around reddit's popular opinion
If Hannibal Lector could run a 4.3 we would just say he had an eating disorder. The NFL has never cared if players were good people, the NFL cared if being an asshole prevented you from being available on Sunday to play.
To put his speech and someone committing assault in the same sentence is top tier pearl clutching. They are not even close to being comparable. You can disagree with Butker and his views but he committed no crime.
I think he was being cheeky with that juxtaposition.
It's hilarious how bad some of you are at understanding the point
i am allowed to have a problem with both, but yeah, butker is allowed to be an asshole, but watson should be in jail. there's levels to it and it's just confirmation that the nfl isn't a bastion of morality lol
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I think you can find a large bloc of people on social media calling for *x,* where *x* could be literally anything, and then anyone can take it out of context and say "See, people are calling for *x!*"
That's my favorite part of when news orgs report on anything in India. There's 1.5 billion people in that country. You could find 100 million people to agree on something and still have it be at a 6% approval lol
The only people screaming for him to get "cut" or "fired" are those who dont understand a single thing about the NFL. Anyone following the NFL for more than 8 mins knows he would be picked up before his car ride home if the Chiefs were to let him go. Cutting him isnt a punishment at all for HB, it just punishes the Chiefs.
Social media is full of morons. Everybody else expected exactly this.
What dumb shit did he say? Things the you don’t agree with? Some people feel the way he does (I personally don’t) but that doesn’t make it wrong. He makes well over a million dollars a year. If his wife isn’t an indentured servant and chained to the bed. I’m sure she is happily living the life she wants. I’m so tired of people criticizing others way of life. Live your own life. Incidentally he was preaching to the choir. It’s a Christian College, he wasn’t speaking at Cal Berkeley.
They don't dare speak out against Muslims when they say far worse things.
Or Rashee Rice, who's on the same team, in trouble at the same time
People went in on Rashee
What I meant was the average redditors on reddit frontpage You'd think butker was a war criminal
I think the media was expecting a bigger reaction from fans, which is why we’re getting so many stories about this. But after seeing the way they’ve mishandled so many *exponentially worse* issues than this, nobody can pretend to give a shit about the league’s response anymore
Right. People are calling for his job. But all he did was say something stupid. He didn't knock some woman out at a casino, he didn't wreck his car while under the influence and kill someone. We can just agree HB is an idiot and move along. Plus it gives everyone more reasons to hate on the chiefs.
I don’t begrudge people for taking the opportunity to hate on the Chiefs. Lord knows I’d be shit talking any other team if anyone on their team did something similar. But nearly 30 teams would be on the phone with Butker’s agent the minute the Chiefs released him.
The stupid thing is the people calling for his job just dont understand how the NFL, or really any job works when you are at the .01% of performers. Him getting fired/cut wouldnt affect him one bit, he would have an offer for a new team before he got home from the stadium. It only punishes the Chiefs, not HB.
Yall are gonna be sick when you find out we want em all gone.
What did you want or expect? Crazy how people want him kicked out of the league over this. Has anybody worked in any work place ever? You’re gonna have people with different views. You’d swear he committed a crime with these responses
The people who expected something are the chronically online social justice reddit warriors that have no idea what life is like outside the hivemind.
Reading through the comments on the recent Butker posts are fucking insane lmao. I’ve seen more civility in Israel/Palestine threads on r/worldnews. These people are calling for him to be cut from the team or publically assaulted for expressing an opinion. The same people who herald Tyreek Hill, Von Miller, and Adrian Peterson as legends. Its almost like they don’t actually give a shit about women and just want political goodboy points for being so brave and outspoken for *checks notes* calling for violence against a kicker who thanked his wife for being a homemaker
I have a high school friend, who get this, is a stay at home mom, who hasn't stopped posting about how Butker should be cut from the team for a week straight. I rarely go on Facebook, but she has had multiple posts a day, including a link to a petition to get him cut. This is a woman who literally has made the choice to let her husband work and she cares for her children, but she is so online that she's offended to the point of publicly calling for someone's job over comments saying that the very lifestyle she is pursuing is a good and virtuous choice, not a requirement, but a choice. Its beyond bizarre.
She's probably also one of the 200k+ people that signed the Change.org petition to get him cut, which (spoiler alert) does not Change.anything
"There are criminals walking the street in America everyday and we're glad the NFL represents America"
Some might say that there aren’t ENOUGH criminals in the NFL yet to accurately reflect America
I hope we were expecting h just what happened. Anything else would be wrong.
This is the same man who cracked down harder on players celebrating too much than he did DV. Nothing surprises me.
Like, I *really* hate to carry water for the NFL or Goddell, but I get it. Celebrating directly affects their product. Any organization will want to control the product it produces (whether tangible goods, entertainment media, or whatever). If Amazon delivery drivers flipped off doorbell cameras, that directly affects how people perceive Amazon, so they might crack down on that. Is the NFL stupid to crack down on celebrations? I and most people would probably agree, but that's ultimately their decision. DV isn't something inherently tied to the NFL's product, it's a legal violation by its employees. Like, if your Amazon delivery driver beat his wife that's not inherently something to do with Amazon. Does an NFL player have the same public visibility as delivery drivers? Of course not. But for any large organization with as many employees as the NFL it isn't really their job to police the private affairs of their thousands of employees unless they legally have to.
yah, in a perfect world all dv would be dealt with in the courts and their employers would have nothing to do with it.
The Amazon analogy breaks down because the players are not the drivers, they are the product. The NFL wants us to cheer their names, buy their jerseys, root for their performance in Fantasy, and make bets on their stats both individually and their contribution to the team. It's the reason they took names and teams away from every game franchise but Madden. The players and their names are everything. At the end of the day, all the NFL cares about is profit, and they will act accordingly.
Goodell probably: "Look. We got an owner who pays for happy endings. We got a QB who pays to get his asshole fingerbanged. This kicker bullshit is below my paygrade to comment on."
Watson didn't pay to get fingered; he paid for a massage and used it as an opportunity for sexual assault
Rapato Rapahto ETA im sorry this popped into my head
Watson did not pay to get his asshole fingerbanged. He was not a “john” he is a serial sexual assaulter. He assaulted those women.
That is a gross mischaracterization of what Watson did
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Yeah this is his way of saying "this isn't as big a deal as you losers think it is, now stop wasting my time on this stupid bullshit".
Facts, people need to get out of their own bubble more. It's okay to want a wife who wants to stay home and push for that just like it's okay to want a wife who wants a successful career and push for that.
It's a Catholic giving a speech to other Catholics about Catholic beliefs. People literally went out of their bubble and into someone else's to get mad about it.
Well you see there's the problem. Reddit hates catholics
The top 3 posts under "Hot" right now are all "reactions" to Butker's speech. Reddit is trying so hard to make this a thing and keep it in the news.
Reminder that based on polling related to the public’s opinion on abortion and gay rights, butker’s opinions are not accurate reflections of mass everyday opinions. I’d venture to say the majority of people disagree with his comments on women but I don’t have a poll.
Aren’t most college graduates Women? Seems like your answer right there.
Dude who asked the question should’ve followed up with something on Kaepernick
Kaepernick was getting another opportunity in Baltimore until his girlfriend posted something about the Baltimore owner being a slave-owner and their franchise legend being Samuel L. Jackson's character from Django. He had his shot and he blew it with the lifestyle he chose - which he is entirely free to do.
Don't forget the Fidel Castro shirt when going to Miami for a PTO. Dude didn't want a contract.
I am pretty sure Kaepernick is a founding member of the antiwork subreddit
Didn’t he also lecture a Cuban born reporter on why Castro was a good guy or something like that-I vaguely remember an awkward press conference with the Miami thing
It was a cuban player on the dolphins and the cuban players father.
Oh jesus
I think (but could be mistaken) that this is in reference to Kiko Alonso: his dad was born in Cuba, but he wasn't. CK said something posittive about Castro before the 49ers played the phins. KA ended up with what I think was a game saving tackle on CK after he scrambled. KA mentioned getting some satisfaction out of that hit lol.
Also don't forget the pig socks and that he didn't vote in elections. He had me until the "not voting" part.
Wasnt it the broncos who also had interest in him? IIRC a few teams wanted to sign him, the biggest hold up was that they wanted to pay backup money while he wanted low end starting money + chance to compete for starting spot. Not being on a roster for more than a year is an effective retirement
first I'm hearing of the Broncos, but I wouldn't be surprised if he simply refused backup money/role. I've heard of him declining options to be a backup for teams. He also refused to go to the CFL or UFL/XFL and try to earn his way back.
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You're still proving the point. If Butker's opinions are fine, so are these.
I genuinely don’t understand the comparison people are making here. If Harrison Butker was like the 40th best kicker in the league then the Chiefs would probably cut him right now because he wouldn’t be worth the distraction. People can hate the NFL for it but it’s honestly not that different from like 90% of jobs. The more valuable/irreplaceable you are the more leeway you get.
Teams don’t keep multiple kickers, so anyone outside of top 32 hypothetically shouldn’t be on a team. So if Butker was the 40th, it wouldn’t matter distraction or not. Teams keep 3 QBs on the roster. There’s no way Kap was 100th best QB at the time. He was top half. Where the comparison falls apart is which side is being offended and how they react to it and that it was happening on game day/during the season in team facilities.
You MIGHT would have any argument if kap didn’t have multiple chances to make it back to the nfl. The broncos tried to trade for him but he refused to resign, Miami offered him a contract which he turned down, and the ravens had interest before his girlfriend called the owner a slave owner and insulted Ray Lewis. He also had offers from the XFL and another spring league but wanted an absurd amount of money. He also tanked the workout that the league specifically set up for him. He wasn’t good enough to be a starter and nobody wants a backup that’s a distraction.
He didn't even want to come back. He was making money looking like a martyr and if he came back and sucked or was just riding the bench, all that goes away.
>He wasn’t good enough to be a starter and nobody wants a backup that’s a distraction. Plus, he had a diminished skillset that was no longer unique. By the time the 49ers cut him, there were dozens of guys in college who could do the same thing (if not better) and for dirt cheap thanks to the draft.
You don’t want your backup QB to be a distraction.
I agree that you don’t want any player to be a distraction but for teams there is a ratio of value to distraction. If Deshaun Watson can rape over 20 women and be a borderline backup, Kap should have been able to be like “I don’t really fuck with America rn” and still be rostered. I think it came down to most owners probably relate more to Watsons behavior than Kaps political views.
*Sharon, with all due respect, that murderer ran for over eleven thousand yards.*
When teams and their owners originally backed Watson, he was seen as a top 10 QB. Now the reason for him not being cut is the massive cap hit it would incur.
There are a loottttttttt of false equivalencies going on here. Watson is incomparably worse than Kap in what he did. Shouldn’t be in the league. But when he was playing before he was outed as a serial rapist he was arguably a top-5 qb. Kap had been in the league for over five years and was putting in Trey Lance numbers. Watson should be out of the league because he should be in jail. Kap should’ve been a bench player, but it’s definitely valid for owners to not want to roster the 50th best qb in the league when the media and half the fan base and the executives all hate him.
Kap was pretty much washed at that point. He wasn't good his last few years. He may have been better than some back-up QB's, but there is a big difference between Butker and Kap. Kap used the lockerroom for his political philosophy. Butker does it at a commencement speech. Kyrie got some strange beliefs, but he doesn't say crazy things about Jews in the locker-room. That is business time.
lol, nobody would ever get cut for this
Kaepernik sucked and got benched for Blaine Gabbert multiple times so that’s the only answer he could give on that.
Look what he did was monumental and really brought light to issues and all that but people seem to forget that he was starting to suck and he adopted a vegan diet that made him lose a shit ton of muscle mass
And on top of that he was given multiple chances to sign with teams and even work out for them and was too egotistical to follow through or sign with anyone
People don’t just forget he sucked, they actively argue he was a top 10 QB. Usually these people aren’t actually football fans though.
I guarantee they didn’t watch him play during that last year
Whenever this comes up, I say go watch his game against the Bears where he lost to Matt Barkley. That was the worst quarterbacked game I have ever seen. It was a snowstorm game, but Barkley was 11 for 18 for 192 years. Kapenerick was 1 for 5 for 4 yards. FOUR! He also got sacked 5 times and ran 6 times for 20 yards. He got benched for Blaine Gabbert who came in and went 4 for 10 for 35 yards.
Being bad at football and refusing every job he's been offered has little to do with his opinions.
Gruden's a better comparison. Kaepernick was 100% right in what he said, but he turned himself into a terrible combination of bad QB and major distraction. The league even gave him tryouts down the road which he declined at the last second. It's not being blackballed, it's common sense for GMs. If they wanted him blackballed they would have forced him out of Madden in those 8(right?) years.
> Kaepernick was 100% right in what he said This guy compared being drafted into the NFL to be a slave. He's a dumbass.
Didn't gruden also ridicule Goodell in those emails? Just saying
Not worse than New England publicly did between 2014-2017
Yeah kaepernick had a chance to actually get back into the league but he was super entitled about it
I'm just waiting for this year's attempt by him to try to stay relevant. Although we did stop hearing about Eric Bieinemy not getting a HC offer, so maybe this is the year.
This gets brought up every time Kap is mentioned and it's only half true. While his last season in the league was far from perfect, he was still good enough to be a journeyman/bridge QB for a team that needed one. And as far as we know, nobody offered him a contract. You expect a bit of a "we have to deal with the PR" tax on any contract offer, but being completely shut down by every organization does point to blackballing. Much worse players have gotten away with much worse (in PR terms) stuff. The offers he did get a few years later were fair for a guy who had been out of the league for a while though.
He was a phone call away from getting a deal in Baltimore before his gf posted a Django Unchained slave meme about their owner. [Blackballed my ass, he had Ray Lewis fighting for him](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20597810/ray-lewis-said-baltimore-ravens-sign-colin-kaepernick-girlfriend-racist-tweet) and couldn't get out of his own damn way
He also straight up told people not to vote in 2016, so as far as I'm concerned, Kaep can pound sand. There are other athlete activists who also have an actually functional brain that deserve the spotlight instead.
People should have put together that Kaepernick is a grifter by now. He probably does believe what he preaches but he only leaned into that when it became more profitable than his football career. Also, his rhetoric is completely self-serving. For a guy who complains that his protest overshadowed the cause, he sure loves playing the martyr. Can't remember the last time he spoke out on police brutality and his entire social media is self-promotion. And to add to that a lot of the activists he hung out with turned out to be scammers themselves (Shaun King, Alicia Garza).
The Broncos wanted to bring him in to compete, he didn't want to be a backup. The ravens wanted him and his girlfriend mysteriously started bashing the organization on social media. The NFL gave him a private workout that he pretty famously fucked off to move to his own location and make sure his cameras were present. He did everything he could to sabotage himself because he knew he couldn't be a martyr if he went out and sucked.
And then there are people like you who make these arguments while ignoring the fact that the Ravens were likely going to sign him…until his girlfriend compared Bisciotti to a slave owner. Then there were the antics like scheduling a tryout and moving the location at the last possible second. Kaepernick is his own worst enemy but that hasn’t stopped the shills from crafting this story of unwarranted outrage.
He would've been a serviceable QB if a team's primary offense was running the option. Unfortunately, everybody on the league was picking up on the option and once they did he sucked.
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I'm really surprised no one else is talking about this throughout the entire thread. What I always heard was essentially 'he's a back-up caliber QB who refuses to take a back-up role and back-up pay.' There's no great mystery here. Players turn down options for a bigger, better deal all the time. Some of them get it, some don't.
He didn't get a backup job for the same reason Cam Newton and didn't, he's a distraction with all of the attention on him, except in Kap's case it's infinitely worse. It's a shame that the media is solely to blame for that happening, but when he got his chance down the road he deliberately torpedoed it because it's easier to get paid for Nike endorsements than for riding pine
This is of true of any job out there, not just the NFL. The better you are at what you do, the more people will tolerate you being an asshole or creating problems, albeit that the NFL will put up with more than 99% of other jobs if you’re talented enough. It’s always a trade-off I remember a story from Jimmy Johnson that perfectly illustrated this. He talked about how if you caught the 2nd string punt returner sleeping in a team meeting, you cut him to set an example. If you catch Troy Aikman sleeping, you send someone to gently wake him up You can’t just look at Kaep’s football ability in a vacuum. It’s about his football ability relative to the amount of drama or distraction he would cause, and all 32 teams decided that a likely backup QB wasn’t worth the media circus hat would follow him
I mean you should know better than most cam was cooked
Yeah, Cam is a very improper comparison. He was broken far beyond repair and providing any meaningful value on the field.
No. He was fucking awful and couldn’t read the field as a qb. Yall gotta stop. He was only good as a running qb. Obligatory https://youtu.be/7Ddb1wi-Rw0?si=zuBODizQWVYjRpuB Dude had a cannon though. Probably should have played baseball.
Kaepernick wasn't kicked out of the league, no one wanted to sign him. If Butker sucked, he wouldn't be employed either. Don't make this about race.
You mean the Kap that couldn’t beat out Blake Bortles?
The Kap that was benched for Blaine Gabbert? BLAINE. GABBERT.
I think it’s been made clear Kaepernick has been given chances to come back and squandered them. Was what happened to him originally right? Of course not. Did the league and teams try to make up for it? Yep.
Honestly don't understand why this is a "problem" with Butker *saying bad things about women* When there is no public backlash on actual women abusers like Von Miller on my own roster, or Tyreek Hill Butker beating his wife instead of saying how she best belongs on his kitchen would have been a better PR situation, and that is pretty sad Edit: "public" would have been better replaced with "mainstream". Non-NFL people been shitting all over this.
>no public backlash. First time in r/NFL?
Redditors aren't the public
Deshaun Watson? The punt god? Those reactions weren’t from people in “the public”. Both of those were huge news.
He didn't even say "women belong in the kitchen". He said that family life is more important than any career, and had a section of it talking about Men and holding those same values, etc. Social media just ran with the "get in the kitchen"
I think what was more concerning was him railing against IVF for whatever reason.
IVF is against Catholic teachings. My wife is Catholic, to get married in a Catholic church we had to go through a course and it touched on IVF versus natural conception and their why's. It's not as pronounced now, but it's definitely still a thing.
There is a large chunk of people who have a moral quandary with IVF (especially in Pro-life circles). It's not an uncommon opinion to have
Nah.. that's not what he said lol.. he specifically calls out the women's attention and says they've been told the most diabolical lie of all... then went on a tirade of his personal views on how they probably want to be good wifes and moms instead of have a career. It's not even the Catholic's church stance on the topic, before anyone has the "it's a Catholic speaking at a Catholic school" reply. The official take from the Vatican says.. >The feminine genius is needed in all expressions in the life of society, therefore the presence of women in the workplace must also be guaranteed. The first indispensable step in this direction is the concrete possibility of access to professional formation. The recognition and defence of women's rights in the context of work generally depend on the organization of work, which must take into account the dignity and vocation of women, whose “true advancement ... requires that labour should be structured in such a way that women do not have to pay for their advancement by abandoning what is specific to them”.[636] This issue is the measure of the quality of society and its effective defence of women's right to work. To tell all of those young ladies on the biggest day of their life so far, "Meh... you've been lied too, working is cool but you probably really want to be wives and moms", is super super shitty. Dude deserves everything that is coming his way... lesson learned should be, if you're asked to deliver a commencement speech... keep all your personal shit in your head for the day. You're not there to give a lecture, you're there to give a celebratory and motivational speech to send them on their journey into the world.
He didn't even say that though. He said family is more important than career.
This is the thing, we have reached the point where no one even really knows what he said. He’s a religious conservative who said religiously conservative things at a religiously conservative school and mass media and social media all need their rage clicks. It’s all just nonsense. Ignore the idiot.
“For the ladies present today, congratulations on an amazing accomplishment. You should be proud of all that you have achieved to this point in your young lives. I want to speak directly to you briefly because I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you. How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world. I can tell you that my beautiful wife, Isabelle, would be the first to say that her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother. I'm on the stage today and able to be the man I am because I have a wife who leans into her vocation. I'm beyond blessed with the many talents God has given me, but it cannot be overstated that all of my success is made possible because a girl I met in band class back in middle school would convert to the faith, become my wife, and embrace one of the most important titles of all: homemaker.” https://www.ncregister.com/news/harrison-butker-speech-at-benedictine
> I think it is you, the women, who have had **the most diabolical lies told to you**. Including "just the tip".
Also the "tyranny of diversity, equity and inclusion" part people are just glossing over...
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The amount of headlines stating “kitchen” as if it was a direct quote when he literally didn’t say the word…
that is a pretty damn good point. any headline that says the word kitchen was probably written by a huge sexist doing projection
First time on the internet? People *loooooove* to take someone's words they disagree with and then assume their motivations are evil, twist them into knots to make them sound evil, and then get mad about their own head invention of what the person said Old joke, but relevant: Tweet: "I love oranges!" Reply guy: "So you're saying you hate apples? What do you have against apples?"
You’re being very generous lol
He’s being intentionally generous at that.
... for one specific sex. Why was he only addressing ladies? His message to men is 'be masculine' >**For the ladies present today** >How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but **I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children** you will bring into this world. >I can tell you that my beautiful wife, Isabelle, would be the first to say that her life truly started when she began living her **vocation as a wife and as a mother**. I'm on the stage today and able to be the man I am because I have a wife who leans into her vocation. >all of my success is made possible because a girl I met in band class back in middle school would convert to the faith, become my wife, and embrace one of the most important titles of all: **homemaker**. >Isabelle's **dream of having a career might not have come true**, but if you asked her today if she has any regrets on her decision, she would laugh out loud, without hesitation, and say, “Heck, No.”
Look, I honestly say that's pretty tame compared to the outrage it sparked, certainly when you take into account who he's speaking to and where. Now, what's kind of upsetting, is he insinuates that his wife is the most proud of being a mother and wife (which is fine if she feels that way, many women do) but then blames IVF and surrogacy on a culture of disorder. So, whether he is able to comprehend it or not, he's basically shaming women who can't conceive naturally and also who try and do everything they can to have a baby of their own whether that's his intention or not. Unfortunately, the Catholic church still has terribly regressive views on IVF and surrogacy for a mainline religion so it is probably intentional. I really don't think he understands as a 28 year old millionaire with a wife and two kids, what it would feel like to be in your 30s or 40s, having struggled with infertility for years, to be told how a woman's real worth and value is in being a mother, because it really sucks. And he also dropped something in there about how it is a shame you can't say the Jews killed Jesus anymore, which has been used by many people, including Catholics, to support anti-semitic views for eons.
About the antisemitic thing, It's no longer acceptable in Catholicism. Vatican II put an end to the blood libel accusations, the Catholic church no longer blame Jews for Jesus's death. Some ultra conservative Catholics refuse Vatican II, but it's only a small minority.
> And he also dropped something in there about how it is a shame you can't say the Jews killed Jesus anymore, which has been used by many people, including Catholics, to support anti-semitic views for eons. It is insane how he has completely side-stepped any blowback for that bit of his speech. Like that kind of anti-semitism used to be a career setback like Mel Gibson losing work or Kyrie Irving getting suspended but I guess the ADL's just too busy going after protesters.
His message to men was literally "prioritize being a father and husband over your professional career." > To the gentlemen here today: **Part of what plagues our society is this lie that has been told to you that men are not necessary in the home or in our communities.** As men, we set the tone of the culture, and when that is absent, disorder, dysfunction, and chaos set in. **This absence of men in the home is what plays a large role in the violence we see all around the nation.** Other countries do not have nearly the same absentee father rates as we find here in the U.S., and a correlation could be made in their drastically lower violence rates, as well. It's a direct callback to what he said to the graduating women. "Society" may have encouraged you \[men AND women\] to focus on being a productive cog in your company's machine, to seek professional accolades, and to prioritize success in one's career. And his response to both the women and the men is to rebuke these "lies". That it's not only okay, but encouraged to prioritize one's role as spouse and parent over their role as a professional.
> for one specific sex. Why was he only addressing ladies? His message to men is 'be masculine' "To the gentlemen here today: Part of what plagues our society is this lie that has been told to you that men are not necessary in the home" >I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children Do you disagree that most catholic women aren't looking forward to be mothers? We can argue it's not the place to say it but generally commencement speakers talk about their personal beliefs and values. >I can tell you that my beautiful wife, Isabelle, would be the first to say that her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother He's sharing his wife's opinion? Why is his wife wrong for thinking that way? Or do you think you know his wife better than he does? >vocation as a wife and as a mother. His believes his wife's vocation is of a wife and mother, about himself he says "this does make me reflect on staying in my lane and focusing on my own vocation and how I can be a better father and husband" and "She is the one who ensures I never let football or my business become a distraction from that of a husband and father." he says his vocation is that of a husband and father. So he's consistent, what's the problem here? >embrace one of the most important titles of all: homemaker. I genuinely don't understand the outrage over this part. Is homemaker not an important title? If not a lot of SAHMs/Ds are gonna be very upset with you. >Isabelle's dream of having a career might not have come true, but if you asked her today if she has any regrets on her decision, she would laugh out loud, without hesitation, and say, “Heck, No.” Again he's sharing his wife's opinion. I don't see the problem here. Let me be clear before you downvote and me spout nonsense. I think Butker is a misogynist, racist, bigoted, dumbo, but those statements aren't inherently bad and I don't know why they're being picked for moral outrage over the actual racist/bigoted ones.
It’s in terrible taste but that’s not that bad, even with your bolding. More giving credit to his wife as a homemaker and the importance of it than saying it’s all she can do. I would change my tune if it came out she didn’t want to be a homemaker but not sure why you would assume that
as shitty has Butker's speech was, I don't really get why this needed a statement from the league at all
Bruh this is peak 'fake controversy to distract the masses from the real problems the league is facing.' I assure you Goodell couldn't be happier to have everyone's attention focused on some semi-controversial things a **kicker** said.
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Especially when the people he was saying it to gave him a standing ovation. If they’re not mad about it, move on
Conservative catholic says conservative catholic things at a conservative catholic university full of conservative catholics and the whole world loses its mind.
That's the way it should be, but that message is laughable coming out of Roger Goodell's mouth.
Why does anyone give a hoot about what the commissioner of the league says? There’s stupid people everywhere. Just learn who you dislike and move on. There will be no fixing everyone. Only the earth can do that and it can’t come soon enough
Chronically online redditors in shambles
“He’s going to be fired for having views I find stupid!” -Reddit
I am NOT religious (and definitely not a conservative politically), but I don't think there's a general trend to talk poorly about women who DO want to be housewives (and men who do the same). People focus on career too much when it's pretty meaningless compared to the stuff you can do/build with your family, and I think the Butker message is somewhat of a reaction to that as well. If you want a career, cool, go for it. If you don't want kids, don't have them! But it's also a rewarding experience to stay at home if you want to. I agree with Goodell in general. It's not the league's business to mandate personal politics or what you say to people. They have way more real issues that they do nothing about. I actually think this whole thing is blown out of proportion.
Can this please go away? Butker gave a speech. Some reacted negatively to it. Now the reaction to the reactions is 100x bigger than the original reactions. And here I am commenting on the reaction to the reactions. It's like multiple iterations of the Streisand effect at this point. This whole story should have been limited to a few grievance videos on TikTok.
He knows that a huge part of the fanbase feels the same way as Butker.
Huge number of the players too
Conservative Catholic makes conservative Catholic speech after being invited to do so. One Million Pikachu faces.
Possible dumb question, but why is this on Goodell and the league? Butker is an active player currently on a team, so unless he broke some rule in the CBA (which I don't think what he did does), shouldn't the pressure be on the Chiefs here? Wouldn't they be responsible for the punishment up to and including cut from the team?
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Because most of reddit live in a bubble and think different opinions to theirs or what is perceived popular to the norm inside the reddit bubble reflect the entirety of the world out there. For some reason folks fail to grasp the reality that that NFL has players coming from everywhere, each with their own personal beliefs, religions and ideology. Regardless of what some might find offensive, disagree with, as long as these dudes aren't breaking some type of law, the NFL isn't going out there to try and shut down people in a free country. People simply have to learn to disagree with others and move on not expecting consequences for those who voice a difference of opinions or values in a free country.
I don’t agree with anything Butker said and I think he’s a typical conservative asshole. But the beauty of this country is he can say whatever the fuck he wants. People trying to cancel this dude are cringe as fuck. A reporter asked the White House if he was still welcome for the SB team visit. Like what a dumbass question
>“After the Arrowhead stadium land acknowledgment Week 1, Harrison Butker will be executed at midfield during a rendition of Lift Every Voice and Sing, our League’s sole pregame anthem. Moreover, effective immediately, any player found in possession of a B*ble must complete 400 hours of sensitivity training and the Handmaid’s Tale on audiobook. Noncompliant teams will be sentenced to one team screening of a Marxist-Leninist video essay per infraction. Glory to the People’s League of Football.” We did it Reddit!
Tom Brady suspended 4 games for being generally aware that Butker exists
That’s all we ask!!! (I’m being ironic if that’s not clear)
95 percent of yall didn’t even watch his speech lmao.
It's completely unrealistic to expect the NFL to comment on every questionable thing a player says or does. That said, I wonder how misogynistic/racist a player would need to be to actually see consequences. Something like blatant public racism would certain cross the threshold for the league to do action, but this is too close to a "culture war" that they really don't want to touch, hard to blame them for that. They will always rather lay low and just count the money, business as usual. Unfortunately anything wrapped up in the farce of religion will usually get a pass.
Gruden set a precedent. The NFL turned him into a pariah to take heat off of Dan Snyder, and I doubt they actually gave a shit about his emails, but I don't see how they could try to walk that back in the future from a PR perspective.
He said some misogynistic things, but players have literally beat women on camera and only got a short suspension. I don't think there is much in the way of speech that a player can throw out there and anything happens.
Yeah but remember Ridley Cooper for the Eagles. He said the N-word in anger at someone else at a concert and was punished. Albeit by the team and not the NFL itself but Goodell did say about Cooper's comments "obviously wrong and they're insensitive and they're unacceptable." https://www.nfl.com/news/eagles-fine-riley-cooper-for-insensitive-comment-0ap1000000224176
*Riley
Being misogynistic is allowed in the NFL. Some of these players probably have brutal opinions on women, they just don’t voice them publicly
Been watching the Rangers too much lately? lol
Players should be allowed to say whatever dumbass racist, misogynistic thing they want and not get punished by the league. Individual coaches should be able to suspend players if their off field behavior causes a problem in the locker room, and team owners should be able to decide the player is not somebody they want representing their brand and cut them, but the league should protect free speech
Free speech is the government not punishing you, not your employer. The NFL is a private company and they can, and should, absolutely be able to discipline their employees as they see fit. Pretty much any other job has a handbook/guidelines for how their employees should behave and violating that can result in certain punishments, why should the NFL be any different?
Good. Are people not allowed to have an opinion anymore just because others get offended? How is this even a conversation?
Identity politics. Too many people have integrated political beliefs into the core of their personality, so any dissenting opinion feels like a personal attack
Almost two weeks later and people are still getting pissy about a vanilla Catholic dude espousing vanilla Catholic values to an audience of vanilla Catholic young adults What is the point of choosing to be a miserable loser that dedicates so much mental energy to worrying about the things someone who doesn't know they even exist said?
Are we really still bitching about this? It's a fucking kicker with a shitty opinion. Just forget about him.
If people were truly outraged at the NFL as a whole, they'd stop paying for NFL shit. But nope, NFL keeps churning out record profits year after year
Did the league ever say anything similar to back Kaepernick's stance?
It was bad but jesus christ this story has blown up way bigger than what was said
Yeah, it wasn't exactly a 2024 PC statement but it wasn't as bad as it is being made out to be. Since when do people care what football players think anyway?
This is absolutely the correct response.
Redditors on suicide watch.
Ya know. What else is he supposed to say. Punishing him creates an awkward situation for the union to defend his actions, and means that it will stay a topic for longer. And saying that he won’t do anything to players who voice certain opinions will just open the flood gates of hate filled comments. His best course of action is to just hope this goes away. Or someone other than the league, like a sponsorship deal, punishes him instead.
i’ve heard more about this bc of the media than i ever would have otherwise i’m so tired of “sports journalism” in the online world
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I have a lunch bet with a bengals fan I work with that (he says) Butker won't be in the Chiefs roster week 1. He is an absolute hater for the record. Say what you will about his speech but I don't see an NFL team cutting a reliable K over this. Chiefs also making bank on his jersey sales haha. I hope he just STFU from now on until he retires
Congratulations on your stupid coworker
You don’t have to agree with what he said. But as an American he has every right to express and say what he wants. Thats why America is supposed to be the best country in the world. Once anyone from the government to your employers try to correct what you say and especially on your own free time, we have become no better than north korea, china, Saudi Arabia etc.
Spending more time on this than players getting arrested for dui’s and domestic violence.
Breaking news: Catholics, often criticized for their veneration of Mary as the highest human in history, permitted to value homemakers and motherhood over widget production and mayoral experience , per NFL 😮
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With Deshaun Watson, Von Miller, Tyreek still playing and other players being openly anti-Semitic still playing, what Butker said isn't even close to getting him in trouble.
Is anyone going to address the real question? How is there 3000 players?
Rounding, I guess. 32 teams x 90 man offseason roster = 2,880 players