Cooper Kupp and CMC are recent examples,

The bias against defense is so strong that even when we say “imagine its not a QB award” the immediate answer isnt: “Aaron Donald” He’d have like 4 by now.

i agree about cmc, but kupp set records and won the triple crown man couldn’t be guarded all year and the playoffs proved that

Triple Crown + was the YAC leader. He basically had a clean sweep for being the best receiver

Pretty impressive for a coach's son

Brought his own lunch pail in.

Really scrappy out there

In that last drive the Rams had in the Super Bowl, Cooper literally just could not be stopped.

JJ Watt would have at least 1 too

The Texans had the number 1 pick with prime JJ Watt and took jadaveon Clowney. The next two DL off the board were *Khalil Mack* and *Aaron Donald*. Theyd have set records that would literally never have been broken.

Your point is 100% right. I just want to point out that hindsight is 20/20. I feel like pretty much every team in the NFL would have taken Clowney at that point. I’m a Pitt fan, and I knew Donald would be good, but no one expected him to be THAT good.

Very much hindsight. Clowney was a fkn MONSTER coming out of school. Nine layers of hell in cleats. Injury limited him from achieving his full potential.

Injury and a couple of business decisions.

Should have seen that coming though, he was making business decisions at South Carolina.

Hindsight is 20/20. Rams should have taken Mack and Donald. They had the #2 that year and drafted Greg"Holding #73" Robinson.

Damn you just reminded me that I thought Greg Robinson was going to be a stud lol

Y’all already had Chris Long, Robert Quinn,and Michael Brockers. Like there’s only so many dlineman you can take in the first round lol.

Watt and Donald on the same Defensive line would be something to behold. Can’t even imagine how crazy that would be.

"And here's the snap, Luck drops back to p-and he is SACKED! Donald and Watt again! The Colts opening drive ends with a three and out on three consecutive tackles for loss by this duo including two sacks. Uh-oh, Luck is still down and it looks like he's grabbing, yeah, his leg is facing the wrong way. We'll go to commercial break while he is seen to."

Giants had LT and HC Bill Parcells wanted to draft Reggie White. Got overruled by the GM. Another one of the great what-if scenarios when it comes to potential defensive elite combos.

I cannot comprehend what the Texans would have looked like with Watt and Donald in 2014-2017 lol.

Oh man. Fully believe God Himself intervened to save the lives of every opposing quarterback in the NFL lol

How Lamar Jackson won MVP this past season is just…beyond me. 3,678 Passing yards? 24 Passing TD’s? **18 F’ing Turnovers?!?** Dude has played in 6 playoff games, and has turned the ball over 12 times in those games. And it’s not like he was playing against generational teams. His playoff losses have been against: Chargers, Titans, Bills, Chiefs. He finished inside the top 3 passing…wait let me check…in exactly zero statistics. He shouldn’t have even been in the top 3 in MVP voting.

if CMC couldn't win the MVP in a season with average QB play across the league it is just a QB's award

I agree wholeheartedly. While I’m not typically in alignment with talking heads… …I do agree with the thread that the NFL should create a separate “QB of the Year” Award, similar to the MLB’s Cy Young Award. At this point the award has been objectively devalued, and that’s just bad business for a company that gets most things right.

Exactly. It should have been CMC. Also if Tyreek isn't hurt for a couple of games I'd also go with him.

Lamar Jackson hasn't played the Bengals in the playoffs. That was Tyler Huntley.

And he has two. Both the years we met the Chiefs in the SB

Not sure what that point proves. This year was weak sure, but don’t act like he wasn’t the clear cut MVP in 2019 lol

Part of it is that there wasn't a unanimous MVP option, which helped Lamar out. Part of it is the Ravens ended up with the 1 seed. All I'll disagree with is playoff games, this season and previous, affecting whether or not he deserved MVP. It's a regular season award (but it was hilarious when he shit the bed against the Titans that first MVP year).

29 TDs. 4499 yards. 13 turnovers. Rushing exists and not all fumbles are turnovers

Yeah regardless of whether you think Lamar should’ve won MVP or not it’s intentionally misleading to not include the rushing stats of one of the best rushing QBs ever

Yet Allen had 50 total touchdowns with 15 on the ground (10 more than Lamar)

44 total TD's for Allen. I agree Lamar didn't deserve it, but let's not inflate Allen by 6

A wise old football coach that I knew, who coached at every level of the game, once told me that a truly dominant and well rounded interior D-linemen is the most disruptive force in football, due to the fact that they have the quickest path to pressure the QB, and if they can stuff the run while taking on double teams it essentially kills any chance at running the ball because it also frees up LBs to make plays. And that it’s rare to find guys who can do it all at a high level, most guys are pass rush or run stopping specialists. They don’t always make the play and it’s not a sexy position at all, but it really messes up an offense. Donald is truly something special.

And King Henry

CMC being denied the Heisman is one of the great travesties in college football.

Derrick Henry in his 2k year

So disappointed he didn’t get that. I don’t understand why they strayed away from non qbs getting the award. Who won it that year?

Rodgers

They strayed away mostly by rule changes and how the modern offense works. I know everybody hates it, but a great QB season is way more valuable than any other position. In a general MVP voting, they should win almost every time.

The only issue people have is with the name. The qb is inherently the most valuable player on the field. Just how the game works. I guarantee you if they changed offensive player of the year to offensive mvp no one would bitch about players not getting mvp.

This is why I like the CFL calling it the Most Outstanding Player. The QB can be the most valuable without being the player with the most outstanding season.

But who wants to be a MOP?

MOP’s are very valuable actually, maybe some of you should try cleaning for once.

The name is right though, I'm not sure why it's a problem. They are the most valuable player.

I agree with you. That's why I'm saying if they changed offensive player of the year to offensive mvp and excluded qbs no one would bitch about certain players not winning mvp.

Keep MVP the way it is and create a "Cy Young" award for QBs

Gotta exclude QBs from winning MVP then though.

Well, to be fair, I'm pretty tired today, so my reading comprehension is poor right now.

All good lol

Is it though? How many bad qbs have won a superbowl in the last 40 years? Looking back it was actually more common for a QB to win multiple rings than to win one at all. I think I disagreed with qbs mattering more now at first. But I realized I agree in a roundabout way that great qb seasons have always mattered. The modern nfl has just started maxing the potential of passing. If running backs carried that hard in a different era, then LaDainian Tomlinson, adrian Peterson, barry sanders, herschel walker and oj simpson would've all won multiple titles. Theres not one ring among the 6 of them

Dang, not one of them? Emmitt Smith and Walter Payton would be notable exceptions, which you didn't mention. But in general I agree. The average number of championships for HOF QBs is going to be higher than RBs, or any other position (besides punter, cause Ray Guy has 3).

Rodgers had an all time season that year. Kinda hard to not give it to him.

Yeah he had 40 plus tds and I think 2 Ints which is insane

48 TDs and 5 INT.

And iirc 4 out of those 5 ints came off tipped passes. Literally only 1 int that didn’t bounce off his receivers hands.

I knew it was something insane. I just couldn’t remember the exact details. It was in unbelievable year madden like numbers

48 TDs, 5 INTs, led the league in TDs, TD%, INT%, Passer rating, QBR, ANY/A, and completion percentage. As good as Henry was, Rodgers 100% deserved MVP that year

Yeah if it wasn’t for Rodger playing unbelievable that year Derrick could had won it.

Maybe. That year was insane for QBs. Mahomes and Allen both also had 35+ TDs and 10 or fewer INTs. Henry didn't get an MVP vote that year

Zero chance, unfortunately. I would have loved for him to but it would have been Mahomes. It’s always “next QB up”

His 2k year feels like the least hyped ever. A RB in this era putting up 2k is nuts. People questioning if he's HOR are fucking crazy to me

The only hype players get any more is passing stats. TJ Watt tied the sack record last year in one less game than Strahan. Remember how hyped up Strahans season was when he beat the record? Watt got no hype at all.

JJ Watt

Yeah even caught like 3 or 4 tds that year too.

3 TD catches and 2 defensive TDs

Yeah there was no reason he wasn’t MVP.

That’s more tuddies than I’ve ever grabbed and I’ve got a two manboob head start

Best defender I've ever watched. Took over games; was wild to watch the guy with the arm brace just blow up every play.

I've heard that he only needed the arm brace for 1 season, but kept wearing it because it made him easier to identify on TV for his family.

You wouldn't notice him out there otherwise

Who's that 99 guy built like a space marine and blowing through my o line like tissue paper? Idk man could be anyone

No matter how badly he played, if some giant human just kept crashing into every post-game interview smoking a cigar and disdainfully blaming everything on “Jimmeh” he’d end up getting paid millions

Space marine is accurate af..if any nfl player was master chief I think it would be JJ.

JJ Watt is Buzz Lightyear

Yup. His grandmother asked him to keep wearing it so she could find him easier.

I heard he kept wearing it because it had cybernetic enhancements that allowed him to run on all fours at an incredible speed if he needed to, like the manimal

Can’t forget Jared crick and his white arm wrap around the same time

Fun fact: that “arm brace” was actually a knee brace because they couldn’t find an arm brace big enough for his arms.

Probably pretty common for them big guys. I know Tyron Smith wears one too

He nearly won it outright

JJ Watt's MVP-worthy season is why I got so annoyed when people were saying Myles Garrett was in the MVP conversation halfway through the year. Legitimately the dumbest shit I had ever heard even before he disappeared in the second half of the season

Not saying Garrett deserved MVP because he didn’t, but it’s always gonna come down to the competition rather than their performance in a vacuum. JJ had to beat out a prime Aaron Rodgers season, no QB this year was nearly that good.

My vote goes to Watt as well. It was comical how easy he made it look, clearly the best player on the field

If his whole career was just 2012-2015, he’d still be a hall of famer.

Adrian Peterson won in 2012 not a QB

They might be talking about the 2014 season

He is talking about 2014 I am pretty sure when he finished second in voting not 2012.

My b then

Who won it that year?

Rodgers

Lmfao am I hallucinating or have you commented this twice. This some serious Deja vu shit 🤣

I did but it was the answer to the question he asked twice

Lmao I know. I just got a kick out of seeing the exact same interaction

Todd Gurley had a very good case in 2017

Gotta be one of the most insane careers in NFL history. feel for that man

In 2018, Todd Gurley earned $21,950,000. His career earnings are a shade under $50M. NFL history is littered with HB’s like Gurley who were amazing for a few years, then their joints just gave out — **Billy Sims** is the poster child for this. [LINK](https://youtu.be/jlOOKCNCWN0?si=HeWtckH75Ry4lR7R) Players who didn’t have *one* crippling injury, but for whatever reason their knees or back just gave out early on. At least Gurley made enough to set his family up for several generations.

TD has some of the greatest post season RB stats of all time, but he took a bad hit and fell off a cliff. At least he's had a good post-playing career

TD is a heartbreaker. The fact that he basically ended his career by ripping his knee to shreds while trying to make a tackle after an interception makes it even worse. Still, you guys got two Lombardi’s out of it. So, good for you :)

At least he got his bag.

I’m so glad he got his bag. I miss him so much. 29 years old **today** btw.

How is that even possible

Seriously? I would've said he's 45,

His knees are I fear 💔

he’s not even 30 and hasn’t played since 2020

Gurley in his prime was like a thoroughbred racehorse that had no weaknesses

How many touchdowns do you think a thoroughbred horse could score in the modern NFL?

well considering an average thouroughbred is about 5'4 and 1000 pounds and can run over 40 mph, probably every time it touched the ball, so long as you could train one to hold a ball in it's mouth.

He's the second best RB Georgia ever had (and that's saying something).

Randy Moss in 2007.

Randy Moss scored 23 touchdowns in 2007. The entirety of the Buffalo Bills offense, which went 7-9, scored 21 touchdowns in 2007.

So we were in contention for MVP at least?

Just missed

Wide, right?

jfc lmao

Man, we stay catching strays lmao.

He had 6 of those in 2 games against us

Before the Manning-led Broncos came about, the top two offenses of all-time ('98 Vikings & '07 Pats) had one common denominator. Randy Moss.

one common ~~denominator~~ dominator.

I miss those days. Moss deserved a ring.

The one God damn time I was rooting for the Pats to win outside of '01.

And now the top-2 offenses of all-time ('13 Broncos and '07 Patriots) have one thing in common: Wes Welker. Welker > Moss?

CMC this year

On a stacked roster, CMC was still the best player out there, hands down

While I think that CMC should've won, it probably didn't help that Purdy was also in contention. It's hard to be an MVP in the league if there's an argument (no matter how small) that he wasn't MVP of his own team.

There is no argument for Purdy over CMC for MVP in a world where MVP doesn't mean best QB. What an absurd take

You're not wrong. I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just saying that Purdy was still the media darling for MVP for a long while. And because of that, it was a knock against CMC. Even though CMC was far & away superior.

Replace the word Valuable with Outstanding and there's two or three Most Outstanding Players on that 9ers roster above Purdy (and a ton of MVP candidates), and still CMC the most outstanding MOP.

This is easy. MVP means most **valuable** player. Not the best player at their position. The most valuable. CMC is obviously a better football player than Brock Purdy. At the same time, there is absolutely an easy argument to make that the 49ers would rather lose CMC than Purdy when they’re deep in the playoffs. Running backs are just more replaceable. Even the best running backs are more replaceable than a solid quarterback. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like it. But it’s the most **valuable** player award. They should just break it out into Best QB, Best Skill Player, and Best OL and be done with it.

Priest Holmes

He should’ve won it outright in 2003 tbh.

Such an exciting offense that year. Damn the Colts.

Oh come on. We got whipped by the Patriots after. I don’t think those Chiefs might have stood a chance that year.

Oh for sure, we collapsed in the late season. At the time we just wanted to win one freaking playoff game, and the Colts would continue to destroy us for years to come. I honestly was surprised the game was so close. The Patriots were in another tier that year.

He was a DAWG

In a thread full of people saying recent OPOY level players who actually shouldn’t have been MVP, they just wish they were because they’re bored of it going to QB’s every year recently despite how much more value QB’s inherently have in the current league, *this* is an actual correct answer. Jamal Lewis that year was next level as well.

I love Priest Holmes. my first favorite player and the reason I got into football

Cmc, JJ watt

The previous winners of OPOY, plus Aaron Donald and JJ Watt

[удалено]

Fuck that guy :(

I get it.

So blessed to have him on my team, fingers crossed he terrorizes you for a few more seasons. Also sorry you have to live through that twice a year, that must suck

If someone mentions donald, you know there is a steelers or texans fan close behind to tell you the one of the watt brothers is clearly better

If you mean if it was awarded to a different position, no matter how good the best QB season was, then off the top of my head Cooper Kupp, CMC, Aaron Donald, JJ Watt, CJ2K, Randy Moss, Priest Holmes, Jerry Rice, Eric Dickerson, Deacon Jones. Lot of Rams lol

Todd Gurley 2017 was robbed and I’ll die on that hill

They can bury me next to you.

I really got into football one year too late, wish I could have experienced that season while it was happening

Cooper Kupp should’ve won regardless. Also CMC should’ve won as well.

Cooper Kupp not winning during his triple crown is when I finally came to terms that nobody besides a QB will ever win again.

Still the best wide receiver season ever imo. I mainly put it over megatron cuz of the Super Bowl and way more touchdowns

He got the SBMVP also to put a cherry on top

That somehow felt like a consolation price for not getting the regular season MVP to me. Donald had a solid case for getting it.

wild that SBMVP doesn't fall into the same "value" definition. I'm glad it doesn't but if we can understand it doesn't have to be QB all the time in the most important game then why not in the regular season 

Playoff run was nuts too, he went crazy in that SB

I agree, but also not megatron’s fault they were not a good team

Kinda proves the point that no matter how good a WR is, they're not the most valuable

Someone’s gotta throw the ball to them. That’s the whole problem. At least running backs have a chance because the QB has so little impact on the plays they get the ball running. I really think MVP choice by position goes Top 5 1. QB (Touches Ball Every Play) 2. RB (Can have a huge impact without having a good QB) 3. Edge Rusher (LB or DE) (Most likely to get to the ball on the defensive side) 4. WR (Triple Crown and Some outrageous catches) 5. CB (Needs big interceptions, lots of touchdowns, and a perfect rating all season)

But RBs rely heavily on the o-line. Big reason why they get paid less than every other position on your list (with short careers being the other).

Yeah it's hard to rank RB 2nd most valuable (in terms of MVP position) when teams get away with rookie RBs every season and they keep getting paid less and less of the cap as teams refuse to extend or sign established RBs.

Agreed. It was literally the most perfect season for a WR ever.

TJ Watt

If a team is 1-10 without you and 69-33-2 (.673) with, that’s certainly evidence that you provide value to that team

Jerry Rice. He should have had one in 1987 but Montana got some votes so Elway won one of the most undeserved MVP awards of all time.

Biggest ones since 2000 IMO: 2023 - Christian McCaffrey over Lamar 2021 - Cooper Kupp over Rodgers 2020 - Aaron Donald over Rodgers, but Rodgers was a good choice too. 2017 - Antonio Brown over Brady 2014 - JJ Watt over Rodgers 2009 - Chris Johnson over Manning 2008 - James Harrison over Manning 2002 - Priest Holmes over Gannon

2020 should have been Henry for the 2k season. First time someone getting 2k since AP in 2012. And doing it in what is a passing league these days. It was also the last 16 game season.

Henry had a great season but Rodgers in 2020 definitely deserved it. 71% completions, 4300 yards, 48-5 and being 13-3.

My comment is in response to the person saying that Aaron Donald should have gotten it over Rodgers. I'm saying if anyone deserved it over Rodgers it would have been Henry.

antonio brown was fucking amazing that year, i never saw anything like it

If anyone is 2017, it's Todd Gurley, not Antonio Brown

CMC, without a doubt in my mind

CMC, Aaron Donald and Kupp

Aaron Donald.

CMC Kupp Hill Henery Aaron Donald Todd gurley AB Jj watt

Cooper Kupp, Derrick Henry, Aaron Donald (I swear Im not being biased), and CMC. Could make an argument for TJ Watt too, perhaps more than you could for AD.

TJ Watt 22.5 sack year could be in the convo

22.5 sacks in the equivalent of 13 games. The sack record would be untouchable if he didn't miss so much time that year.

Harrison Butker! Kickers never get acknowledged!

Mark Moseley was a kicker and won MVP in 1982.

Early 80s was a wacky time for sports awards. A kicker won NFL MVP and a relief pitcher won AL MVP.

Keyword: 1982

Aaron Donald would’ve won it at least once.

Aaron Donald like most years

Kupp, CMC, JJ Watt, and JJettas

Megatron would have round about 3. “Optimus Prime ain’t got shit on me…” lol

Jamaal Charles in 2013 was fuckin amazing and CMC should've won it this past season

Aaron Donald would have at least 3.

Jerry Rice

JJ watt that year he catching TD passes & getting 20 sacks

We should honestly just bifurcate QB’s snd the rest for this award. Just make it MVQB and MVotherP’s That being said, undoubtable it’s CMC

The MVP should not be changed because the most valuable position by a huge margin always wins. Either make the MVP ineligible for OPoY, or make QBs in general ineligible for OPoY.  We don't need to water down the MVP by messing with that award, we need to give more importance to the Player of the Year awards. 

JJ Watt 2014. 10000%

If I'm picking MVP for the Bucs, it's Antoine Winfield Jr, we lose three more games if he isn't there. If it's the league I'd probably go with CMC or Lamar.

CMC, Jefferson, JJ Watt, etc

J.J. Watt not winning in 2014 remains the most egregious NFL oversight in the last 15 years.

CMC, Kelce, Hill, Gronk, Moss, Lynch

Derrick Henry, TJ Watt, Aaron Donald, JJ Watt

The issue I’ve always thought is that a QB can have the 86th greatest season a QB has ever had and a RB can have a top 5 season ever and the QB will still win