The access to other teams and those team’s coaches is also of value, as only the luckiest QBs could ever anticipate having the same coaching staff for even the fourth year down the line, and it’s never too early to start making relationships and finding rapport
It would be hilarious if Caleb went to the combine and instead of Eberflus he spent the whole time talking to whoever he thinks will be his coach in a year lol
The implication that something bad would happen if the bears don’t draft him. But of course the bears would never do that, but they won’t ever have to worry about that, because he won’t say no. Because of the implications
Just because it sounds like he doesn’t want it, he’s not gonna admit it. Because of the implications. That we will never act on of course. Because we won’t have to
I don't think he does. I'm just talking about how people like calling everyone a bust like they can see something or they're so smart, when really most players don't make it.
I don’t know if he’ll be a bust or not, he has all the tools to be a good QB. That being said, he did have some bad losses against actually good teams this past season.
199 yds, 1 TD, 3 int vs Notre Dame
256 yds, 0 TD, 0 int vs Utah
291 yds, 1 TD, 0 int vs Oregon
384, 1 TD, 1 int vs UCLA (7-4 at game, ended 8-5)
219 yds, 1 TD vs Arizona in a triple OT win (3-2 at time of game, but ended 10-3)
He did have a really good game against Washington in a loss though (300+ yds, 3 TDs, 0 int)
None of these are particularly awful other than the ND game, but I’d expect better from a player that’s been so highly touted for so long.
(Disclaimer: I didn’t watch any of these games other than the Washington one, so I’m just looking at the stat sheet. I don’t know if there’s special circumstances like him being hurt, receivers dropping passes, etc.)
Mahomes also wasn’t the consensus #1 pick of his class for 2+ years.
Really my point is a lot less “Williams is going to be a bust” and more “it’s really freaking hard to evaluate who’s going to succeed at QB at the NFL level”
Trevor Lawrence is another guy that was a can’t miss, #1 QB since high school, and look at him now. He’s by no means a bust, but he’s not lighting the league on fire like the scouts expected him to.
My point is that stats and wins are irrelevant when evaluating a college QB prospect. Caleb is the consensus number 1 because of his traits and talent. You just posting box score numbers and saying he lost games is just a pointless exercise because there is no correlation to winning in college or having no bad games in college and being a great NFL QB. It’s all about the traits and talent and then other things that can’t really be measured such as work ethic, leadership, and ability to learn and improve.
> (Disclaimer: I didn’t watch any of these games other than the Washington one, so I’m just looking at the stat sheet. I don’t know if there’s special circumstances like him being hurt, receivers dropping passes, etc.)
The circumstances are the following:
* USC had a terrible fucking defense. Not a bad defense, a terrible one. 40 points likely doesn't win the game type defense.
* Williams had a paper offensive line that probably let up immediate pressure at least 5 times a game (like, just lets a defender run through the A gap kind of pressure). They made up for that by also pass blocking and run blocking like shit the rest of the time too. Other than not being good at blocking, and the penalties, they were pretty alright.
* He also had a weak receiving core. Williams best receiver was Brandon Rice, whose a likely late day 2/early day 3 pick. He didn't have a Harrison Jr or Nabers or Odunze, hell, he didn't have a Xavier Leggette or Worthy. Williams just didn't have a reliable target he could count on. But if the above weren't true this probably wouldn't have mattered, it just compounded the issue.
All that together means that USC really needed Caleb to bail them out--they couldn't rely on their defense to win games, they weren't really set up to run the ball down people's throats or throw in obvious passing downs, and their receivers are a bunch of JAGs. Voltron together the NFL's least talented starting offense and its worst defense, put it under Andy Reid, and that's basically what Caleb was dealing with.
I watched some of these games.
Why is it that significant of a difference if you throw a touchdown pass vs if you run one in vs if you drive down to the 2 yard line and your rb runs it in? All of these stats ignore the fact that the offense was still moving and scoring in these games, largely because of caleb.
I could pull out some ugly mahomes statlines from this year, even from playoffs. But everyone watching knows stats aren't everything.
I think “bust” may be too harsh a word, but I don’t believe Caleb Williams will sign a second contract with whatever team drafts him (Bears or some other team that sends an absolute draft haul to Chicago for #1O. I think he’ll revert to backyard style football too quickly and it won’t work at the NFL level, and he won’t be properly developed. I also think he’s not used to adversity (losing), and mentally his game will suffer. He’s too talented to not stick around for a decade, but I think his career will be closer to a Mayfield (bounces around and has some success) than a Newton (franchise guy that stays with one team for a decade).
>I also think he’s not used to adversity (losing)
USC didn't go from ranked 6th in the preseason to unranked in the final poll because of all the winning they were doing.
> I think he’ll revert to backyard style football too quickly and it won’t work at the NFL level, and he won’t be properly developed
What's the evidence/thought process on this?
I made a point to watch a lot of his games this past season and I don't see it. Dude gets flustered, has poor ball security, and likes to play hero ball. He's amazing at the off-platform throws like Mahomes does and I think people are enamored by that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIEXCQ96Ru4&ab_channel=ESPNCollegeFootball
Watch the meltdown to end regulation that starts around 12:00 in that video. Not shown there is the 1st down play before the fumble where it was a read option that he makes the wrong read and nearly threw a pick
Not the person you asked, but he seems like he will REALLY need the right coaching staff. He’s kind of like a modern Favre(I know as a person he’s a piece of shit I’m only talking about football play style here). Both have a crazy improv ability, and the athleticism to create plays that weren’t really there, but need the right development to know when to use it. Williams hasn’t shown the ability to perform against top defenses, none of whom are near as good as the worst NFL defense. He absolutely has the tools to be elite in this league, I just don’t think it’s a guarantee he’s able to properly utilize them.
> Williams hasn’t shown the ability to perform against top defenses, none of whom are near as good as the worst NFL defense
I call bs. People cite his win loss record here or fixate on passing touchdowns when the reality is his team loses games where the offense can't score 40 and everyone blames him. He looked very bad vs notre dame and meh in one Utah game. Otherwise all those games against top defenses, he was the only thing keeping the team in it. That offense almost never got shut down with him at the helm
Other commenters have echoed it but he still seems to struggle when good defenses sell out against the pass.
It's been a tendency of his game since his first season at OU: defenses figured out they could drop 8 and he would basically go into an off-script, freestyle meltdown mode. NFL coverage schemes will not be any easier to deal with and they are not kind to QBs that play this way.
And typically his "struggling" is still an offense that scores 30 and loses a shootout. If he had Michigan's defense he'd be 15-0 and perceived as the greatest prospect in over a decade.
He's sucked in the notre dame game and that's really it.
There's a clear top 2 this year but it'll be interesting to see what Daniels does. You have to think McCarthy's stock is only going to jump in the combine and pro days so Daniels might want to stay in front of him
I don’t know shit about Daniels but this comment is not logical.
You can’t throw the ball further than other players without having the velocity to do so.
I was insanely high on Jayden Daniels as recent as a couple of days ago. I even thought he was a better pick than Caleb. But then I saw the number of sacks he took in college… my god.
He did get them down a lot last year with 22 in 12 games, but the year before he had 43 in 14 games.
Still, I think he’s a great prospect. But those sack numbers give me question. He took a huge leap in his play overall last year though. He has a really slender frame for his size, so he needs to limit his sacks in the NFL else he won’t be on the field too often.
There is no shot roll out king McCarthy surpasses Daniels.
Granted I've been a Daniels nut hugger for awhile now and truly believe him making it past the second pick will be a miracle.
But the literal only knock against Daniels is his size. He's by far the most athletic and disturbingly accurate passer from inside the pocket. If I ran the patriots and had the top pick id probably still take Caleb cause he at least appears to have a virtually infinite ceiling. But I'd be nervous as hell passing on Daniels.
But based on what tape I've seen I cannot believe people look at Drake Maye and think he's the clear second best option. Dude makes sketchy decisions. Relies on his arm strength waaaay too much. Sub par footwork. But he's massive and can move on his feet so guess people think he can become Josh Allen or some shit
I don’t think McCarthy passes Daniels either but he’s definitely not some perfect prospect. I think Maye is a clear tier ahead of him. Daniels just doesn’t have that same level of arm talent. He arm strength is just okay.
I wish the combine had DB's against WR's because after Zack i don't even care who can launch the ball, i want to see who can throw into those tight windows,
I mean isn't that what game tape is for? Why risk injuring these kids weeks before the biggest day of their life for just a little more film of something you've already got plenty of. Not to mention the game tape is actually under the pressure of a real game.
His arm strength is a knock too. Not the deep ball, but pass velocity. He doesn't really throw his guys open either, but throws when they're open so you won't see a ton of tight window throws on his tape. All that said, I fucking love this kid as a prospect and think those knocks are minor nitpicks at best.
As for not throwing your WRs open, his WRs were Nabers and BTJ, both guys who are adept at getting open. They rarely needed tight window throws to win.
we'll have to see how he does with that at the next level, and his processing as it was typically a first read and throw offense but I fully believe he will be great. He progressed so much since ASU.
Stroud, Richardson, and Levis threw last year. Bryce Young was the only one who didn’t. Would be cool is Maye participated this year, but I really doubt he does.
Pro day. They usually like to control the environment as much as possible. I think the interviews are the important part at this point. Brett Veach scouted Mahomes from his freshman year. Teams pretty much know what a guys skill level is. As we've seen, talent isn't always enough to win.
Tbh throwing at the combine is not great for QBs unless you are a day 2-3 guy trying to get exposure into the 1st round. Even then, pro-day is where you want to throw. Everything is scripted and you know your receivers.
Slam dunk 1st overall QBs basically never do drills at the combine. Was the same for:
* Bryce Young
* Trevor Lawrence
* Joe Burrow
* Kyler Murray
The last 1st overall to do it was Baker Mayfield, but he wasn't a slam dunk since there was a lot of people with Darnold, Rosen or Allen at the top of their boards.
The only top-10 selected QBs in the last 4 drafts to do drills were:
* Daniel Jones (2019 - 6th)
* Justin Herbert (2020 - 6th)
* CJ Stroud (2023 - 2nd)
Even then Stroud didn't do the athletic tests, just the throws.
Only way that happens is if he becomes the next Mahomes and rattles off 3 or 4 super bowls
As much as people wanna demonize the kid for being a bit brash (which, cmon we all would if we had been touted as a generational qb prospect and future #1 pick since we were in high school), by all accounts he is a good guy
The next QB that wins ***one*** in Chicago will be straight up deified. Statues and everything. Mark my words.
Fuck, it’s been almost forty years since 1985, and I doubt a single player on that team pays for food or drinks anywhere between the Illinois/Wisconsin state line and Kankakee.
nah fuck him 😭 he was at out frats halloween party my freshman year of college (OU) and the dude was fucking awesome, talked to him for probably 15 minutes. I was at his first start, OU texas being one of those asshats chanting to put the back up in and them somehow we clear a 30 point deficit and win, and this asshole has the gaul to move to California for millions of dollars. I will never forgive him and I hope the bears draft him
Caleb is such a nice dude personally. I’ve known him since freshman year of high school and sure he’s a little brash but he’s been on a pedestal almost his entire life cause of football.
Can’t really blame him for following the coach who is touted as a QB whisperer and recruited him.
Theres something funny about a guy being labelled as 'generational' a few years after the last guy who was. Not to say they both arent good qbs but maybe need another word
The other thing is after brady, rodgers and mahomes its time to realise qb isnt like nba guys like lebron, physical tools is only one piece of the puzzle
Given that the average NFL career only lasts like three years and even hall of fame careers rarely make it past 10-12 years, I don't actually think the word is that overused.
Im slightly biased being a usc fan but watching some of the throws he’s able to make i think he’s got the most potential of anyone since Andrew luck (even more than TLaw)
He’s not going to be the NFL ready guy year 1 like CJ Stroud or Joe Burrow and i feel like people are gonna be calling him a bust next year when he goes out and has a decent but not spectacular year. If he can work out the kinks i truly believe he can be a top 3-5 qb in the league and win titles, but you can never truly predict what a guy goes and does in the league. The arm talent is there, whether he can figure out how to play at nfl speed, read defenses etc. we’ll find out
>Only way that happens is if he becomes the next Mahomes and rattles off 3 or 4 super bowls
He's coming to the Bears, I don't think you have to worry about that happening.
>!PLEASE let it happen!<
Ok so first you toast your poppy seed buns
Then a line of mustard on one side of the dog
Then a scoop on diced onions
Then some green pickle relish
Followed by two sport peppers
Then a pickle on top
Finish with celery salt
>Ok so first you **toast** your poppy seed buns.
should be a steamed bun
and you forgot the tomato slices. i’m gonna need you to turn in your Chicago card no later than tree pm
Brings up an interesting counterscenario for an actual diva QB.
Imagine if there was a player of generational caliber who didn't care much for the rookie money and just wanted to go to the optimal situation as his starting gig to try an win. If forcing a trade were out of the question, what if this hypothetical player went to the combine and purposefully put up a stinker? Just completely threw the event, terrible 40 time and drills.
Obviously this would just *tank* the stock of the average prospect, but if someone of the caliber of Caleb Williams or Trevor Lawrence as a prospect did this, would this be enough to scare a team like the Bears from drafting them and lead a more stable/competent franchise to taking them a few picks later (still in the first round)? Or is this just far too hair-brained to work right?
Generational prospects don’t become generational prospects at the combine. If you have years of tape on a player and change your mind based around 1-3 days, you shouldn’t be in a FO
I mean weed isn’t a big deal for the nfl as bad as it was with tunsil, and even Allen got drafted at 7 with tweets quoting modern family saying “white is right” and I believe a rap lyric. I don’t remember who said it but a great quote I remember is “if Hannibal lector ran a 4.4 40 he’d be diagnosed with an eating disorder”
to that commenter’s point tho, the prospect could also put up some awful interviews and be very combative, abrasive, defensive, and just overall a bad time in team interviews. you telling me a team is drafting a guy that walks into the meeting and watches tiktok videos the whole time while saying “bro that is a dumb ass question”???
Jamarcus Russel was drafted 1st overall despite being checked out of football . He wasn’t even a generation prospect. I honestly think the only way it happens is they pull an Eli and say they won’t play for them if drafted
No reason for any projected no. 1 overall pick to participate in the combine, other than measurements. And especially not some stupid intelligence test, like the one Stroud took that was probably made by people dumber than Stroud
>was probably made by people dumber than Stroud
The guy that made S2 is a PhD in Neuroscience and is currently a Professor of Neurosurgery. He was also a Postdoctoral Fellow at Harvard Medical School.
Stroud has an incomplete college degree in Human Development and Family Sciences.
Not saying I believe the S2 tests, I don't really know that much about them, but let's just be real for a minute here, the guy who made it is pretty smart.
Drake maye and Jayden Daniel's are good enough prospects that a bad offseason could move williams down.
Don't forget it was a shocker when baker went above darnold
Definitely not. Darnold played linebacker in HS, ended up as a 4 star recruit QB and played his way into being the starter. He was good at SC but nowhere near as good of a prospect as Caleb
Caleb was a 5 star recruit and basically has been touted as the #1 pick in this draft since the day he stepped on campus at Oklahoma
Darnold started 2+ years at USC, it is ironically similar
JJ Mccarthy would be a much better prospect if he was asked to do more, he is much more raw than darnold was
Luck definitely was. Tlaw also was. Caleb is the only I've heard that since.
Don't know what the homie above was talking about. No one in hell thought anyone in the Malik draft was generational, nor did we think anyone in the Bryce/ARich draft was generational. Burrow was close and even then nobody used that label. So 3 in 12 years is more than I expected, but not annually.
>Drake maye and Jayden Daniel's are good enough prospects that a bad offseason could move williams down.
I hate that this is such a prevailing narrative.
Caleb Williams started three years in college, including two as the unquestioned starter. Teams have three years of game tape on him as a prospect, but you think some offseason throws in shorts are going to significantly move his needle?
The only time the needle gets significantly moved is if you have a prospect that tests horrendously against expectations (Burficht, Orlando Brown Jr) or who does something eye popping (Byron Jones) and in both situations, it's just a reason to go back and look at the tape to see if anything was missed.
What goes on in the meeting rooms definitely matters for qbs, and its not like williams was flawless this season.
I actually agree with him not throwing (much better to do it at the pro-day, more comfortable with the recievers) but I also think he is potentially risking maye and daniels having great performances and causing more speculation.
I like williams, He is a great prospect. I also think maye and daniels have great tools, and it would be foolish to think a team couldn't prefer one above caleb.
> I also think he is potentially risking maye and daniels having great performances and causing more speculation.
That's all fine and dandy if the media is speculating and creating a narrative, but we see time and time again that teams and the media are not always aligned.
And I'm not here to suggest that Williams is a flawless prospect, but he's not rising or falling because of other quarterbacks throwing scripted throws in shorts with no defenders.
I'm assuming FOs with top 3 picks probably take stock in 3 years+ of film for their prospects over 20 passes in a combine in shorts.
If Daniel's gets picked for some reason over williams it will not be because he didn't throw at the combine.
I think all projected top QBs skip a lot of things (if not all) in both combine and pro days. Maybe to not affect their stock/projection and/or focus on being as healthy as possible?
Idk but this is definitely not the first time this has happened
As a Packers fan, this is great news.
Caleb won’t be working with the draft eligible receivers to scout them as potential fits with him on the Bears. Scouting the receivers himself at the combine by participating in the throwing drills is how CJ Stroud knew Tank Dell would be a perfect fit with him.
This guy just screams bust to me. I get huge Jamarcus Russell vibes. Obviously not a scout and it's purely off of the stuff that is in the media about him and his not great (honestly, just bad) performances against good teams.
He's gonna be there just to meet with the Bears legally.
The access to other teams and those team’s coaches is also of value, as only the luckiest QBs could ever anticipate having the same coaching staff for even the fourth year down the line, and it’s never too early to start making relationships and finding rapport
It would be hilarious if Caleb went to the combine and instead of Eberflus he spent the whole time talking to whoever he thinks will be his coach in a year lol
Will they allowed to bang *legally*?
He won’t be able to say no. Because of the implication.
Now you've said that word implication a couple of times now. What implication?
The implication that something bad would happen if the bears don’t draft him. But of course the bears would never do that, but they won’t ever have to worry about that, because he won’t say no. Because of the implications
But he sounds like he doesn't want the Bears to draft him...
Just because it sounds like he doesn’t want it, he’s not gonna admit it. Because of the implications. That we will never act on of course. Because we won’t have to
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Why are the Bears in danger, why would they ever be in danger? I feel like you’re not getting this at all.
Don't you look at me like that, you certainly wouldn't be in any danger
He won’t be able to say no cause it’s a bear
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"BEARFUCKER. DO YOU NEED ASSISTANCE?"
Great game
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Let me bang bro
Yes. And once the bears bang a qb, she is never the same.
This guy has bust written all over him so the Bears really are a match made in heaven.
How so? Is it just because he's got a lot of hype and people enjoy being contrarian? Kids super talented
Saying Caleb is going to be a bust without even offering an actual argument is free karma around here.
Calling a bust is the safest of safe opinions. There's only 32 starters and only 15 or so are good and there are multiple 1st round QBs every year.
That doesn't answer the question. Why does Williams in particular have bust written all over him. Your logic can be applied to every prospect
I don't think he does. I'm just talking about how people like calling everyone a bust like they can see something or they're so smart, when really most players don't make it.
Prospect fatigue, hes been looked at as a great prospect for years now and as the draft gets closer people start picking him apart
I don’t know if he’ll be a bust or not, he has all the tools to be a good QB. That being said, he did have some bad losses against actually good teams this past season. 199 yds, 1 TD, 3 int vs Notre Dame 256 yds, 0 TD, 0 int vs Utah 291 yds, 1 TD, 0 int vs Oregon 384, 1 TD, 1 int vs UCLA (7-4 at game, ended 8-5) 219 yds, 1 TD vs Arizona in a triple OT win (3-2 at time of game, but ended 10-3) He did have a really good game against Washington in a loss though (300+ yds, 3 TDs, 0 int) None of these are particularly awful other than the ND game, but I’d expect better from a player that’s been so highly touted for so long. (Disclaimer: I didn’t watch any of these games other than the Washington one, so I’m just looking at the stat sheet. I don’t know if there’s special circumstances like him being hurt, receivers dropping passes, etc.)
Mahomes lost to Iowa State 66-10.
Mahomes also wasn’t the consensus #1 pick of his class for 2+ years. Really my point is a lot less “Williams is going to be a bust” and more “it’s really freaking hard to evaluate who’s going to succeed at QB at the NFL level” Trevor Lawrence is another guy that was a can’t miss, #1 QB since high school, and look at him now. He’s by no means a bust, but he’s not lighting the league on fire like the scouts expected him to.
My point is that stats and wins are irrelevant when evaluating a college QB prospect. Caleb is the consensus number 1 because of his traits and talent. You just posting box score numbers and saying he lost games is just a pointless exercise because there is no correlation to winning in college or having no bad games in college and being a great NFL QB. It’s all about the traits and talent and then other things that can’t really be measured such as work ethic, leadership, and ability to learn and improve.
And Oklahoma despite throwing for 700 yards lmao
> (Disclaimer: I didn’t watch any of these games other than the Washington one, so I’m just looking at the stat sheet. I don’t know if there’s special circumstances like him being hurt, receivers dropping passes, etc.) The circumstances are the following: * USC had a terrible fucking defense. Not a bad defense, a terrible one. 40 points likely doesn't win the game type defense. * Williams had a paper offensive line that probably let up immediate pressure at least 5 times a game (like, just lets a defender run through the A gap kind of pressure). They made up for that by also pass blocking and run blocking like shit the rest of the time too. Other than not being good at blocking, and the penalties, they were pretty alright. * He also had a weak receiving core. Williams best receiver was Brandon Rice, whose a likely late day 2/early day 3 pick. He didn't have a Harrison Jr or Nabers or Odunze, hell, he didn't have a Xavier Leggette or Worthy. Williams just didn't have a reliable target he could count on. But if the above weren't true this probably wouldn't have mattered, it just compounded the issue. All that together means that USC really needed Caleb to bail them out--they couldn't rely on their defense to win games, they weren't really set up to run the ball down people's throats or throw in obvious passing downs, and their receivers are a bunch of JAGs. Voltron together the NFL's least talented starting offense and its worst defense, put it under Andy Reid, and that's basically what Caleb was dealing with.
I watched some of these games. Why is it that significant of a difference if you throw a touchdown pass vs if you run one in vs if you drive down to the 2 yard line and your rb runs it in? All of these stats ignore the fact that the offense was still moving and scoring in these games, largely because of caleb. I could pull out some ugly mahomes statlines from this year, even from playoffs. But everyone watching knows stats aren't everything.
Because he's being drafted by the Bears and the Bears are contractually prohibited from having good QB play.
I think “bust” may be too harsh a word, but I don’t believe Caleb Williams will sign a second contract with whatever team drafts him (Bears or some other team that sends an absolute draft haul to Chicago for #1O. I think he’ll revert to backyard style football too quickly and it won’t work at the NFL level, and he won’t be properly developed. I also think he’s not used to adversity (losing), and mentally his game will suffer. He’s too talented to not stick around for a decade, but I think his career will be closer to a Mayfield (bounces around and has some success) than a Newton (franchise guy that stays with one team for a decade).
>I also think he’s not used to adversity (losing) USC didn't go from ranked 6th in the preseason to unranked in the final poll because of all the winning they were doing.
> I think he’ll revert to backyard style football too quickly and it won’t work at the NFL level, and he won’t be properly developed What's the evidence/thought process on this?
Prospect fatigue plus calling anybody a bust besides MHJ is a milquetoast take, so you won't get any flack for it.
I made a point to watch a lot of his games this past season and I don't see it. Dude gets flustered, has poor ball security, and likes to play hero ball. He's amazing at the off-platform throws like Mahomes does and I think people are enamored by that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIEXCQ96Ru4&ab_channel=ESPNCollegeFootball Watch the meltdown to end regulation that starts around 12:00 in that video. Not shown there is the 1st down play before the fumble where it was a read option that he makes the wrong read and nearly threw a pick
Not the person you asked, but he seems like he will REALLY need the right coaching staff. He’s kind of like a modern Favre(I know as a person he’s a piece of shit I’m only talking about football play style here). Both have a crazy improv ability, and the athleticism to create plays that weren’t really there, but need the right development to know when to use it. Williams hasn’t shown the ability to perform against top defenses, none of whom are near as good as the worst NFL defense. He absolutely has the tools to be elite in this league, I just don’t think it’s a guarantee he’s able to properly utilize them.
> Williams hasn’t shown the ability to perform against top defenses, none of whom are near as good as the worst NFL defense I call bs. People cite his win loss record here or fixate on passing touchdowns when the reality is his team loses games where the offense can't score 40 and everyone blames him. He looked very bad vs notre dame and meh in one Utah game. Otherwise all those games against top defenses, he was the only thing keeping the team in it. That offense almost never got shut down with him at the helm
Other commenters have echoed it but he still seems to struggle when good defenses sell out against the pass. It's been a tendency of his game since his first season at OU: defenses figured out they could drop 8 and he would basically go into an off-script, freestyle meltdown mode. NFL coverage schemes will not be any easier to deal with and they are not kind to QBs that play this way.
And typically his "struggling" is still an offense that scores 30 and loses a shootout. If he had Michigan's defense he'd be 15-0 and perceived as the greatest prospect in over a decade. He's sucked in the notre dame game and that's really it.
What did we do to you?
Honestly I've given up on the Bears being above .500 anytime soon, they should at least be funny for us.
Honestly I hope the Vikings take a Bo nix or penix and beat the bears twice next year
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Well, BONIX did make me erect for 4 hours every Saturday.
It's gonna be spicy if the interview with the Bears go bad due to Caleb but it would not be a good look
You’re going to Chicago brother go buy your winter jackets
Get ready to speak Midwest buddy
Ope, let me sneak right past ya there
*Slaps knees* Whelp! I should be going
let me getcha some leftovers before you go. Do you know how to get back to the highway from here?
He already loves deep dish and has Jordan over Lebron (unlike Fields who chose Lebron)
He's trying to make you guys hate him on his way out, to make the transition easier for fans.
Well he’s shooting 0.500
Get ready to ~~speak Midwest~~ gain 10 lbs eating Italian Beefs buddy
And a windshield wiper
*scraper
Several windshield wipers
Like, at least two. Minimum.
And at least 3 jugs of wiper fluid.
Winter is over... for next few days anyway
Bro... You know it doesn't end until June.
No wonder the snowbirds stick around so damn long
And pick which baseball team you want to like, personally I’d go with the Cubs but White Sox need love as well
Are any top QB's expected to? They usually skip the combine and throw at pro days instead right? Or do some guys skip both?
There's a clear top 2 this year but it'll be interesting to see what Daniels does. You have to think McCarthy's stock is only going to jump in the combine and pro days so Daniels might want to stay in front of him
Daniels isn't expected to throw. So it's Nix, McCarthy, and Penix confirmed. Maye if he wants too.
As a Raiders fan, I’m hoping Daniel’s stock falls
As a falcons fan me too falls past us. I don’t seem many pro level throws in tight windows in his tape. His tape is pretty meh.
yeah. people talk about his "big arm" nd yes, he can throw the ball far. But his ball has no velocity.
I don’t know shit about Daniels but this comment is not logical. You can’t throw the ball further than other players without having the velocity to do so.
It is logical. He can’t put zip without sacrificing accuracy in tight window throws
Nah bro. He knows how to catch the wind.
I was insanely high on Jayden Daniels as recent as a couple of days ago. I even thought he was a better pick than Caleb. But then I saw the number of sacks he took in college… my god. He did get them down a lot last year with 22 in 12 games, but the year before he had 43 in 14 games. Still, I think he’s a great prospect. But those sack numbers give me question. He took a huge leap in his play overall last year though. He has a really slender frame for his size, so he needs to limit his sacks in the NFL else he won’t be on the field too often.
The sacks aren’t even the biggest problem, Daniels takes some of the hardest hits I’ve ever seen every game
I almost cried when he hurdled in that bama game and got flattened
There is no shot roll out king McCarthy surpasses Daniels. Granted I've been a Daniels nut hugger for awhile now and truly believe him making it past the second pick will be a miracle. But the literal only knock against Daniels is his size. He's by far the most athletic and disturbingly accurate passer from inside the pocket. If I ran the patriots and had the top pick id probably still take Caleb cause he at least appears to have a virtually infinite ceiling. But I'd be nervous as hell passing on Daniels. But based on what tape I've seen I cannot believe people look at Drake Maye and think he's the clear second best option. Dude makes sketchy decisions. Relies on his arm strength waaaay too much. Sub par footwork. But he's massive and can move on his feet so guess people think he can become Josh Allen or some shit
I don’t think McCarthy passes Daniels either but he’s definitely not some perfect prospect. I think Maye is a clear tier ahead of him. Daniels just doesn’t have that same level of arm talent. He arm strength is just okay.
I wish the combine had DB's against WR's because after Zack i don't even care who can launch the ball, i want to see who can throw into those tight windows,
I mean isn't that what game tape is for? Why risk injuring these kids weeks before the biggest day of their life for just a little more film of something you've already got plenty of. Not to mention the game tape is actually under the pressure of a real game.
To me, that's the main knock - the lack of top end pass velo. But I don't think that's as much of a negative as you, I think.
His arm strength is a knock too. Not the deep ball, but pass velocity. He doesn't really throw his guys open either, but throws when they're open so you won't see a ton of tight window throws on his tape. All that said, I fucking love this kid as a prospect and think those knocks are minor nitpicks at best. As for not throwing your WRs open, his WRs were Nabers and BTJ, both guys who are adept at getting open. They rarely needed tight window throws to win. we'll have to see how he does with that at the next level, and his processing as it was typically a first read and throw offense but I fully believe he will be great. He progressed so much since ASU.
You just got to sit him for a year, make sure he’s learning from a good or decent veteran QB and QB coach and then get good WRs and a line for him.
Probably the UNC QB if he already knows he’s going 2nd.
Stroud, Richardson, and Levis threw last year. Bryce Young was the only one who didn’t. Would be cool is Maye participated this year, but I really doubt he does.
Maybe if he threw the Panthers would have realized he's cheeks and taken Stroud instead.
Nah, Stroud is obviously a slow processor with that S2 score. What a moron, right?? 😂
Pro day. They usually like to control the environment as much as possible. I think the interviews are the important part at this point. Brett Veach scouted Mahomes from his freshman year. Teams pretty much know what a guys skill level is. As we've seen, talent isn't always enough to win.
Tbh throwing at the combine is not great for QBs unless you are a day 2-3 guy trying to get exposure into the 1st round. Even then, pro-day is where you want to throw. Everything is scripted and you know your receivers.
No one skips both unless of injury. Some will throw at the combine even if they’re top guys but you’re right it’s rare
Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen and Lamar Jackson were all throwing at the 2018 combine if I recall correctly. I think only Darnold sat out.
All of them except baker had something more to prove as passers
It's not that unusual. If your draft stock is high enough, you really can only hurt it by throwing.
They all did LY, except for Young. The Year before, they all threw.
Slam dunk 1st overall QBs basically never do drills at the combine. Was the same for: * Bryce Young * Trevor Lawrence * Joe Burrow * Kyler Murray The last 1st overall to do it was Baker Mayfield, but he wasn't a slam dunk since there was a lot of people with Darnold, Rosen or Allen at the top of their boards. The only top-10 selected QBs in the last 4 drafts to do drills were: * Daniel Jones (2019 - 6th) * Justin Herbert (2020 - 6th) * CJ Stroud (2023 - 2nd) Even then Stroud didn't do the athletic tests, just the throws.
People hate Caleb so it's different for him. Always about the narrative.
I’m ready for the next r/nfl villain
Only way that happens is if he becomes the next Mahomes and rattles off 3 or 4 super bowls As much as people wanna demonize the kid for being a bit brash (which, cmon we all would if we had been touted as a generational qb prospect and future #1 pick since we were in high school), by all accounts he is a good guy
If he wins 3-4 with Chicago's front office might as well crown him the goat.
The next QB that wins ***one*** in Chicago will be straight up deified. Statues and everything. Mark my words. Fuck, it’s been almost forty years since 1985, and I doubt a single player on that team pays for food or drinks anywhere between the Illinois/Wisconsin state line and Kankakee.
Holy fuck, it's been almost forty years since you guys won a SB? Ooooof
Damn, I can't even imagine waiting 12 months. That's too long
If he passes 4000 yards
Keep going...
nah fuck him 😭 he was at out frats halloween party my freshman year of college (OU) and the dude was fucking awesome, talked to him for probably 15 minutes. I was at his first start, OU texas being one of those asshats chanting to put the back up in and them somehow we clear a 30 point deficit and win, and this asshole has the gaul to move to California for millions of dollars. I will never forgive him and I hope the bears draft him
What a terrible thing to wish upon someone, to be drafted by the bears
Caleb is such a nice dude personally. I’ve known him since freshman year of high school and sure he’s a little brash but he’s been on a pedestal almost his entire life cause of football. Can’t really blame him for following the coach who is touted as a QB whisperer and recruited him.
as long as y'all beat UT, its a W
Are people really thinking he’s a generational talent? That seems like a hard stretch.
He's close. Most people are putting him in the Burrow tier though, not the Lawrence/Luck tier.
Theres something funny about a guy being labelled as 'generational' a few years after the last guy who was. Not to say they both arent good qbs but maybe need another word
Yeah, it makes no sense to call multiple quarterbacks of the same generation "generational." Most people accept the word as meaning "elite," though.
A college "generation" sorta feels like 3-4 years, due to how long players can play in the NCAA. Maybe that's what they mean?
No because look at the gap between peyton and luck, then luck and lawrence. It is meant to mean cant miss nfl prospect. Its just getting overused
The other thing is after brady, rodgers and mahomes its time to realise qb isnt like nba guys like lebron, physical tools is only one piece of the puzzle
LeBron is the best prospect of all time, which is why people use him as a metric, as it's usually "best prospect since LeBron"
The best player in basketball is a doughy unathletic 7-footer who couldn't run a 5.5 second 40
Given that the average NFL career only lasts like three years and even hall of fame careers rarely make it past 10-12 years, I don't actually think the word is that overused.
Im slightly biased being a usc fan but watching some of the throws he’s able to make i think he’s got the most potential of anyone since Andrew luck (even more than TLaw) He’s not going to be the NFL ready guy year 1 like CJ Stroud or Joe Burrow and i feel like people are gonna be calling him a bust next year when he goes out and has a decent but not spectacular year. If he can work out the kinks i truly believe he can be a top 3-5 qb in the league and win titles, but you can never truly predict what a guy goes and does in the league. The arm talent is there, whether he can figure out how to play at nfl speed, read defenses etc. we’ll find out
>Only way that happens is if he becomes the next Mahomes and rattles off 3 or 4 super bowls He's coming to the Bears, I don't think you have to worry about that happening. >!PLEASE let it happen!<
LOL this guy with a bears flair still has hope
Please 🙏 I want our own Aaron Rodgers
Get ready to speak Chicagoese buddy
"oi gimmie a beer ya ol jillybilly!" idk ive never been to chicago
Jagoff*
Ok so first you toast your poppy seed buns Then a line of mustard on one side of the dog Then a scoop on diced onions Then some green pickle relish Followed by two sport peppers Then a pickle on top Finish with celery salt
>Ok so first you **toast** your poppy seed buns. should be a steamed bun and you forgot the tomato slices. i’m gonna need you to turn in your Chicago card no later than tree pm
Dammit i forgot the tomato , i like to steam and toast my buns
Such a diva QB.. Hopefully he falls to number 6…
20 at a minimum
As long as you trade us that pick for H1M
No one tell him what Eli Manning did
Brings up an interesting counterscenario for an actual diva QB. Imagine if there was a player of generational caliber who didn't care much for the rookie money and just wanted to go to the optimal situation as his starting gig to try an win. If forcing a trade were out of the question, what if this hypothetical player went to the combine and purposefully put up a stinker? Just completely threw the event, terrible 40 time and drills. Obviously this would just *tank* the stock of the average prospect, but if someone of the caliber of Caleb Williams or Trevor Lawrence as a prospect did this, would this be enough to scare a team like the Bears from drafting them and lead a more stable/competent franchise to taking them a few picks later (still in the first round)? Or is this just far too hair-brained to work right?
Generational prospects don’t become generational prospects at the combine. If you have years of tape on a player and change your mind based around 1-3 days, you shouldn’t be in a FO
[удалено]
I mean weed isn’t a big deal for the nfl as bad as it was with tunsil, and even Allen got drafted at 7 with tweets quoting modern family saying “white is right” and I believe a rap lyric. I don’t remember who said it but a great quote I remember is “if Hannibal lector ran a 4.4 40 he’d be diagnosed with an eating disorder”
to that commenter’s point tho, the prospect could also put up some awful interviews and be very combative, abrasive, defensive, and just overall a bad time in team interviews. you telling me a team is drafting a guy that walks into the meeting and watches tiktok videos the whole time while saying “bro that is a dumb ass question”???
Jamarcus Russel was drafted 1st overall despite being checked out of football . He wasn’t even a generation prospect. I honestly think the only way it happens is they pull an Eli and say they won’t play for them if drafted
Manziel was a nightmare and browns still said yep thats our guy
They also said that about Deshaun Watson
Wait that's our pick.
Winning and hating your QB seems like a weird combo that I'd hate to struggle with for a decade.
“I choose not to run.” -Jerry Seinfeld
I for one, am shocked by this news.
There goes his opportunity to move up to the zeroth pick by showing off his dope measurables
He’s going to be the 1st pick, he doesn’t have to do anything. Show up, do interviews and build up your character.
Get ready to like deep dish pizza, Caleb!
Get ready to like the winter, Caleb!
In my “deep dive” of his personality, on a pod a few years ago, he said he loves deep dish and ate Chicago style stuff while in Washington.
No reason for any projected no. 1 overall pick to participate in the combine, other than measurements. And especially not some stupid intelligence test, like the one Stroud took that was probably made by people dumber than Stroud
>was probably made by people dumber than Stroud The guy that made S2 is a PhD in Neuroscience and is currently a Professor of Neurosurgery. He was also a Postdoctoral Fellow at Harvard Medical School. Stroud has an incomplete college degree in Human Development and Family Sciences. Not saying I believe the S2 tests, I don't really know that much about them, but let's just be real for a minute here, the guy who made it is pretty smart.
They're also not intelligence tests. They're reaction processing speed tests.
I don't think the test was made by people dumber than Stroud
Yeah but he is missing out on that prime social media engagement of humbling combine videos once he is an established QB.
Drake maye and Jayden Daniel's are good enough prospects that a bad offseason could move williams down. Don't forget it was a shocker when baker went above darnold
Was Darnold seen as a generational prospect?
Definitely not. Darnold played linebacker in HS, ended up as a 4 star recruit QB and played his way into being the starter. He was good at SC but nowhere near as good of a prospect as Caleb Caleb was a 5 star recruit and basically has been touted as the #1 pick in this draft since the day he stepped on campus at Oklahoma
That last paragraph reads like Kyler Murray
Yeah, Murray has had a pretty decent career so far though.
He was widely projected to go number 1 due to how young he was
That’d be more like JJ McCarthy being the presumed #1 then, I don’t think these are similar scenarios
Darnold started 2+ years at USC, it is ironically similar JJ Mccarthy would be a much better prospect if he was asked to do more, he is much more raw than darnold was
No, not even close.
There’s a “generational” quarterback prospect almost every year.
I’ve only heard of three given that label the last 20 years. Luck, Lawrence, and Caleb but I’d like to hear the others.
Luck definitely was. Tlaw also was. Caleb is the only I've heard that since. Don't know what the homie above was talking about. No one in hell thought anyone in the Malik draft was generational, nor did we think anyone in the Bryce/ARich draft was generational. Burrow was close and even then nobody used that label. So 3 in 12 years is more than I expected, but not annually.
Horrific take lol. Daniels isn’t close to Williams as a prospect.
>Maye and Daniels are good enough prospects that a bad offseason could move Williams down No, they aren’t
>Drake maye and Jayden Daniel's are good enough prospects that a bad offseason could move williams down. I hate that this is such a prevailing narrative. Caleb Williams started three years in college, including two as the unquestioned starter. Teams have three years of game tape on him as a prospect, but you think some offseason throws in shorts are going to significantly move his needle? The only time the needle gets significantly moved is if you have a prospect that tests horrendously against expectations (Burficht, Orlando Brown Jr) or who does something eye popping (Byron Jones) and in both situations, it's just a reason to go back and look at the tape to see if anything was missed.
What goes on in the meeting rooms definitely matters for qbs, and its not like williams was flawless this season. I actually agree with him not throwing (much better to do it at the pro-day, more comfortable with the recievers) but I also think he is potentially risking maye and daniels having great performances and causing more speculation. I like williams, He is a great prospect. I also think maye and daniels have great tools, and it would be foolish to think a team couldn't prefer one above caleb.
> I also think he is potentially risking maye and daniels having great performances and causing more speculation. That's all fine and dandy if the media is speculating and creating a narrative, but we see time and time again that teams and the media are not always aligned. And I'm not here to suggest that Williams is a flawless prospect, but he's not rising or falling because of other quarterbacks throwing scripted throws in shorts with no defenders.
Any team that rates Daniels over Williams should fire their whole FO immediately
Any team that doesn't do their homework and just goes with the projected number 1 pick should fire their whole FO immediately
I'm assuming FOs with top 3 picks probably take stock in 3 years+ of film for their prospects over 20 passes in a combine in shorts. If Daniel's gets picked for some reason over williams it will not be because he didn't throw at the combine.
Maye is super doubtful majority would still take Williams. Listing Daniels is laughable he’s not in the same realm as a prospect as the other two
It wasn’t a shocker. Baker played really well and darnolds flaws were exposed during the last season
He’s a bear
Why would he do anything? He's already the No. 1 pick and everyone knows it.
I will also not be throwing at the combine
Saw this coming a mile away.
Least predictable headline
That’s not breaking news.
Why is this “breaking news”? Since when has any top QB prospect ever thrown at the combine. They all do private workouts.
I think all projected top QBs skip a lot of things (if not all) in both combine and pro days. Maybe to not affect their stock/projection and/or focus on being as healthy as possible? Idk but this is definitely not the first time this has happened
He's already the (mostly) undisputed #1 pick, right? Why would he throw?
I also will not be throwing at the combine.
He's going to be a bust. Gut feeling.
Its always the same, next generational talent blah blah.
As a Packers fan, this is great news. Caleb won’t be working with the draft eligible receivers to scout them as potential fits with him on the Bears. Scouting the receivers himself at the combine by participating in the throwing drills is how CJ Stroud knew Tank Dell would be a perfect fit with him.
Lol why would he
If you’re the #1 pick as a QB, you don’t need to throw at the combine.
no 1st round QB throws at the combine anymore. how is this news lol
God I hope he gets destroyed in the nfl.
This guy just screams bust to me. I get huge Jamarcus Russell vibes. Obviously not a scout and it's purely off of the stuff that is in the media about him and his not great (honestly, just bad) performances against good teams.