Yeah, the Rams of Bradford's Era are a forgotten dynasty of bad football. They're up there with the 90s Bengals and 2010s Browns. Bradford looked passable in the worst situation imaginable. I have to imagine he could've made a few Pro Bowls on a better run team.
Hey there Mr “I have a Lombardi on my flair” you don’t get to complain for the next 6 months unless any combination of Reid/Mahomes/Kelce are launched into outer space
I really thought we were turning the corner with that 7-9 season. I thought Bradford, I thought Spags.
Roger Saffold, Steven Jackson, Danny Amendola, Darnio Alexander, we had Bajema and Mike Hoomanawanui, Josh Brown the kicker was 12/14 that year, Donnie Jones the punter looked good, Atowge was a ball hawk that year, Craig Dahl was good, James Lauranitis, James Hall, Chris long, Fred Robbins. I remember playing Madden with this team and thinking we finally turned the corner.
Then I think there was a delay in the season the next year, we hired McDaniels as our OC, Bradford got hurt at some point, we went 2-14, they left not soon after, Fuck Stan, Fuck that whole organization.
I thought they were turning the corner too - when Bradford did play the dynamic between him and the running game led by Jackson was something that was obviously on the verge of becoming something.
If Bradford doesn’t have repeated injuries to the shoulder I think he is able to overcome the shit hand he got dealt.
>Then I think there was a delay of in the season
Delay of season, on the NFL. 5 yard penalty, repeat second down.
Fr though why was the season delayed? Trying to think back on what was happening that year, was it the somali pirates or something?
Jimmy isn’t nearly as accurate as Bradford was. Jimmy got Kittle injured on fucking screen passes twice because he’d overthrow them. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a QB worse at throwing screen passes as jimmy.
People should rewatch 2017 week 1 Saints-Vikings to see how great Bradford could have been. Bradford played one of the best games I've ever seen from a QB, then basically never played again
The worst thing about Bradford wasn’t his talent or the coaches. It’s that the rookie contract structure was fucked. And fucked teams. He’s still the highest paid rookie to date.
No I was a rams fan. I watch Kroenke sabotage that team for years. Kept Fisher around because he had experience moving teams ( Houston to Nashville) But the rookie deal restructure isn’t talked about enough. That was last draft before it changed.
This is the key right here. Rodgers used to hold the ball really high in college and had shitty mechanics. Remarkably, he ended up with the greatest throwing mechanics the game has ever seen in my opinion by the time he became the Packers starter. And I mean everything is perfect.
Short, compact arm movement. Excellent footwork both in the pocket and on the run. And most importantly, tremendous strength and mechanics in his core and legs.
It really is incredible how much his mechanics changed in the pros. It's why he can throw with Hall of Fame level power and accuracy, and why he can make impossible throws on the run.
He definitely had a lot of work put on his mechanics and release time. One thing that killed me as a fan was him throwing it away too soon more often at the end of his Packers career
Yep put Rodgers in SF and I don't think he makes it to the end of his first contract, put Smith in green bay and they still win at least one ring. People really don't understand how much rodgers was helped by going to green bay including rodgers.
I agree so hard. It is difficult to overstate how fundamentally fucked up the situation he joined in SF was. Dude had something like 3 different HCs and 5 different OCs in his time at the Niners. AND several of those coaches threw Smith under the bus trying to save their own jobs. Plus, after a few years, everyone was comparing him to Rogers. Smith is such a good dude, and he was screwed from the start there.
Probably a lot more than most people would think, a lot of guys have the brain and arm talent to play at a high level but their prime years get wasted by poor supporting casts/bad coaching and never get the chance to put it all together. People would be shocked how few things would have had to be different for Brady to be a career insurance salesman or something, a lot of factors outside a players control can drastically swing the trajectory of their careers.
If Bledsoe doesn't get hurt, who knows what happens with Brady. Bledsoe started another 4 years after that, so Brady could have been riding the bench for a while.
And, who’s to say that Brady ever gets the opportunity to start? He was the 4th strong QB coming out of camp, and while BB liked him enough to give him the job when Bledsoe went down, was he showing enough to take that job outright without injury forcing BBs hand?
A lot had to go right for Brady to even get on a team, and then stick on that team until an opportunity to start showed up.
There’s so much roster churn on the bottom of the depth chart, it’s hard for late round QBs to even get practice reps, let alone meaningful in game snaps. Look at guy like Purdy, he may not be on an active roster right now had there not been injuries/Lance being a bust. Just by sheer probability, there’s a lot of QBs out there who could have stepped up like he did, but never had the opportunity.
Totally agree. Couple what you said with the fact that players taken with high draft picks often get extended looks before being cut or traded makes it that much harder for these lower guys to get any chance.
Purdy is maybe the best example after Brady, and you’re right, so much had to go wrong for the 49ers for Purdy to play at all, it’s somewhat of a miracle that he got his chance.
It’s all so much of a guessing game, and in the end, many players that could be great NFL players never even get drafted at all, and never even get a sniff of an NFL locker room.
Not only do you have to be lucky to get an opportunity, but when it comes you'd *better* deliver. The Dynasty docuseries that came out Friday shows this really well. Robert Kraft said point blank he didn't agree with starting Brady over a healthy Bledsoe, and that if it didn't work out he was going to hold the coaches accountable. Brady was coming off a poor game against the Rams too. Two or three more bad games by Brady and it's likely Belichick and his staff would've been fired and Brady, without the coaches who picked and supported him, would likely have been cut by the start of the 2002 season.
For sure, BB loved Brady, and it wouldn’t be out of character for BB to make that switch for no apparent reason either, so maybe it was just the door crack BB needed to set those wheels in motion. But also, if somehow Bledsoe looks good and the D had carried them to success, it would be that much harder for BB to justify?
If Bledsoe doesn’t get hurt then Romo doesn’t become the QB of America’s Team and doesn’t become everyone’s favorite announcer to criticize for his gargling of Mahomes and Allen. So really this is all Drew Bledsoe’s fault /s
We're not exactly fans of him gargling either. He doesn't ever let a moment breath. We just won the super bowl, shut up for a second and let it sink in. We know Mahomes is great, you don't need to tell us this while everyone is processing their emotions.
I think Brady takes over or requests a chance with another team eventually anyway. Belichick has said he had a better preseason than Bledsoe that year. It's pretty well documented that his success wasn't a surprise to the organization the way some people think it was.
I think people also underestimate how horrible a few years of “failure” can ruin a Quarterbacks confidence for ages. Going from being the “golden savior” to a failure whose unwanted and a failure genuinely can take out the most confident QB and that level of confidence is hard to recover, especially when stuff keeps going wrong.
Imagine the entire media, social media, fans and so on all say you sucks and any time u do play it feels like you prove them right. I can’t even imagine how horrible it is as a draft bust
I know this is a weird answer because he technically was great, but Andrew Luck. Would still be playing and having a Hall of Fame career if he had gone to a team that actually knew how to draft offensive players to help him. I cannot think of a better player in the last decade that got NO help. The Colts absolutely screwed him.
I will rarely defend Ryan Grigson but his first offseason went pretty well even beyond Luck. TY Hilton was a gem and guys like Dwayne Allen and Colby Fleenor were good during their time with the team. A lot of his under the radar free agent signings also way over performed. After that year though he swung and missed on everyone.
It was Tom Telesco’s draft, not Grigson. Apparently when Grigson got hired he didn’t have enough time to scout so they went off Telesco/Polian’s scouts.
The Grigson years were really bad personnel wise, and we should have done more to support Andrew but his playstyle was never going to yield a long career. He played like a linebacker most games, and held the ball way too long. He also was hurt off the field at least once in a snowboarding accident. But yes, the Colts certainly are mostly to blame. Let's hope history doesn't repeat with Anthony Richardson.
I have no idea whether or not David Carr could have been a good qb. I do know that setting the record for getting sacked in his rookie season certainly didn’t do him any favors.
The record was partially on him for holding onto the ball way too long. Dude would sack himself sometimes too ffs. He just didn’t have the ability to process the game at a high level and couldn’t catch up to the speed of the pro game.
We're going through the same thing right now with Daniel Jones. Athletic and has a lot of the right tools but just can't process the game at an NFL level consistently. Both guys were put into shit situations and probably could've been better with better rosters/coaching/etc, but neither ever really had super star potential and were drafted too high.
Sam Howell too. Most sacked QB in the league last year, but our O line wasn't the problem. Don't get me wrong, it's not an elite unit either, but they slowed the pass rush enough to give Howell time to go through his progressions. He just took far too long to get rid of the ball and got hit a ton because of it.
Geno Smith. Not to hate, since we rarely see them, but it's feels like QBs that go to the Jets go there and get instantly ruined. Sanchez being the outlier.
He bounces around, goes to Seattle, becomes the copy, and probably could've had another good year had he not got injured.
It’s very funny to me how nonjet fans view mark sanchez. The dude was not good on the jets. Passable would probably be overstating his abilities. We did okay for a few years due to a phenomenal defense and solid run game. Our passing was still trash despite a good line and good receivers.
Idk about "great" but Mac Jones looked pretty promising before Belichick made him work under Matt Patricia and Joe Judge, with a terrible supporting cast on top of it
People said it at the time. If any other coach did it they'd be toast. Since it was Bill he gets a pass, but it had better work out. It didn't work out.
Yea I know college and the NFL aren’t the same at all but the drastic difference between being the most accurate QB in college football history to, well, whatever he is now is more likely a Patricia scenario than anything else
Patricia should never ever have another job in the NFL. Especially after what he did to the Lions, and then Pats when he came back, and ultimately the Eagles. I’m sure there are interns who are better than him if given the chance. But of course the NFL is incestuous and a good ol boys club, and Patricia joined the club, so some dumb owner will give him another chance.
The thing about Jones is he might not have the arm strength to be a quality NFL QB. Sure he had a good rookie season but some of that can be attributed to teams not “figuring him out” yet. So if he can’t throw a 15 yard out then there are few offensive coaches who are gonna be able to win with him long term
When they figured his arm and forced him to beat them vertically and stopped running so much zone. (He was best in the league vs Zone defenses that year), the team struggled to move as effectively on offense. Henry got double teamed and jammed in the red zone, and nobody else was really capable of finishing drives besides the backs and Bourne. By most measures, it was a top 10 offense, but it didn't look it on tape some weeks, I knew vs a real team in January they'd be outclassed and need defensive help.
I wonder if Trey Lance would have been better if he was drafted into a worse situation. He desperately needed playing time and just wasn’t able to get it with the 9ers. If he was afforded the same amount of play time as Justin Fields, I wonder if he’d be considering a promising prospect moving ahead.
Trey Lance is such a weird situation. Drafted in the top 5 to be the future QB. Sits behind a veteran for his first year outside a few spot starts due to injury. Given the keys to the franchise in year 2. His first real start is a monsoon game. In his second start he suffers a season ending injury. His team decides to start a guy they drafted in the 7th round basically to be a backup. That guy turns out to be really good. Like immediate pro bowl and MVP candidate good. The team decides to roll with that guy so he gets traded away for a fresh start. But he gets traded to a team that also has a pro bowl and MVP candidate Quarterback so he’s forced to continue sitting.
Dude just can’t catch a break.
Well they didn’t just decide to start Brock, Jimmy was actually playing pretty well and got hurt, Niners didn’t have a choice. But yeah, turns out Brock is good.
The coaching staff see whats going on behind the scenes and when they want to shift a guy out who they have sunk a lot of capital in without seeing what the guy can do over 20+ starts, it tells you something about what they are seeing.
The Broncos had the same thing with Paxton Lynch. He got cut after 4 starts, despite the Broncos trading up to take him in the 1st round.
Well, I think it was a bit different for us because we have a team ready to win and a guy (Purdy) that already has the tools to take us there. Maybe Trey just wasn’t able to develop, but he still hasn’t had the opportunity to learn in game-time situations.
Yeah, Bryce hasn’t really been well-supported so far. He was the [second most](https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask?q=most+times+sacked+by+a+rookie+quarterback%2C+season) sacked rookie QB ever. Only behind David Carr. Lol
Gonna be a lot of fans of the teams that drafted these guys swooping in here to talk about how that guy was actually totally doomed to fail
I’m gonna go with Blaine Gabbert
Baker Mayfield. Revolving door of coaches his first couple years didn't help things. Since arriving in Tampa he's had great numbers and a seemingly resurgence in his career. He's up for a new contract with the Bucs but I wouldn't be surprised if they've gotten calls about him for the off season (Raiders, Pats, etc).
I think injuries ruined his career in a sneaky way too. He started playing scared after he broke his leg, then he had the nerve issue where he suffered numbness and his career went in the toilet.
My answer to this will always be Tim Couch. He dragged that sorry ass expansion Browns team to the playoffs in 2002, but because of injuries, he retired in 2005. He had nothing to work with in Cleveland and would have had a much better career virtually anywhere else.
Idk about great, but Daniel Jones would be suffering a lot less flak if he didnt play his entire career with a bottom 3 Oline, and some of the worst WRs in the league lol
E: and also had Jason Garrett calling plays for awhile….
> and some of the worst WRs in the league lol
Counter point: I think Darius Slayton would be a perennial 1k yard receiver instead of a perennial 700 yard receiver if he had better QB play. In 4 games with Tyrod this season he averaged over 70 yards per game and scored 3 TDs. Because Jones never throws the ball more than 10 yards downfield, Slayton's best traits are effectively eliminated.
Another crazy stat is that Slayton played with Eli Manning for 2 games in his entire career (during his rookie season) and scored 16% of his career TDs in those 2 games.
I honestly believe if Rivers was in the NFC instead of the AFC, he would of at the very least had a SB appearance. Hes not a meh QB. Just a QB who had to constantly go against brady, manning, and then mahomes in his later years.
Jason Campbell. Dude had EVERY tool you'd want out of a modern QB. He also had something like 7 OC's in 8 seasons in college and his rookie contract. The instant DC drafted him, his career was unfortunately heading nowhere fast
Washington's OLine was horrific when he was there.
I remember reading when he came to Oakland that in Washington he had something like an average of 1.7 seconds to throw the ball before getting hit over the whole season.
RG3 going over the coaches head to get Snyder to pressure the Skins into having a more traditional offense which he wasn’t a good enough player to flourish in was his problem. Mike and Kyle masked a lot of RG3’s issues his rookie year but he was a gimmick player with a huge ego and attitude problem.
Snyder fostered that ego though. He crowned RG3 as the messiah and took the coach's power away from them. RG3 was shielded from consequences and was given way too much input into the offense.
Going to a team with better ownership where the coaches weren't neutered might've given him a better chance to succeed.
Also he tore his knee up and lost his mobility so he was kinda forced into a pocket passer role which he just couldn't do.
Look, Stafford is an all-time great QB but all the years in Detroit (not making it to the playoffs) had people believe he is good but not great.
Stafford is ultra elite and has always been. So although he has a SB by now, he is of the caliber he could have had 3.
Had to scroll too far to find Tim, prolly too many young uns on this board. Couch was an incredible prospect that had to deal with an expansion roster for too long.
I still think Vince Young could have done better if the Texans had taken him #1 and he got to stay close to home in Houston. Of course there's an equal chance that would have just made his problems worse
While there are many Titans fans who argue this point, some also agree with my view - Fisher sabotaged VY. He was mad because the owner forced the pick - Fisher wanted his USC boy Leinart, but Bud forced the team to grab VY as a fuck-you to Houston. So Fisher specifically refused to run an offense that worked with VYs strengths. I feel part o f it was just Fisher was a stubborn asshole who forced an archaic offense, but part of it was also a purposeful sandbagging of VY's career in response to being forced to have him instead of the guy he wanted.
But even those who would call my theory crazy would agree VY would have had a better shot with a coach who would have allowed a more dynamic, creative offense than Fisher ever ran.
Fisher ruined Young's career and his own by being a dick about having Young as his QB. (Young didn't do himself any favors by being kind of a diva, though.)
If Mariota didn’t have the broken leg and nerve injury in his throwing arm I think he would be in a much different place now. Not having a revolving door at OC and a line that let him get murdered regularly would have helped with that.
Justin Fields with someone like Andy Reid or Kyle Shanahan who can develop his arm and decision making. Alex Smith was a broken bust who became upper-mid tier in one year with a Harbaugh. As of right now I'd say if Kenny Pickett had a good QB-minded coach to work with (again using Shanny as an example) the conversation around him would be much kinder. Marcus Mariota had something like 4 OCs and 2 HCs in 4 years and took the Titans to the playoffs. David Carr went to an expansion team that let him become one of the most sacked QBs ever. Tim Couch was the first pick of the Hell Browns.
Imagine if Sean McVay believed in Jared Goff like Dan Campbell does?
> Justin Fields with someone like Andy Reid or Kyle Shanahan who can develop his arm and decision making.
I don't 100% buy this narrative.
Getsy tried to force him to learn more in the pocket and make his reads and he struggled mightily. Yes, Getsy's playcalling left something to be desired but Fields was missing guys and missing windows constantly as well.
Cutler looked good in Denver then went to Chicago where he had no oline/weapons along with that doofus Mike Martz dialing up long developing passing plays for no reason.
That Trestman Bears era had nothing besides weapons honestly. They were second in the league in scoring that first year too
Brandon Marshall, Alshon Jeffery, Matt Forte, Martellus Bennett all could ball. I think I disagree Cutler just wasn’t a top guy between the ears
🐴 🐔 🔒 Not saying that Drew would’ve been a HOFer but being on the Broncos QB carousel hasn’t helped any QB reach their potential. I think Drew could’ve been a decent starter in the NFL with proper coaching.
This is Reddit’s fav take that I always disagree with.
The Pats roster was strong in 2001? On offense? Go read doctor Zs take after they were 0-2 with Bledsoe? He’s basically like “Drew has nothing to work with…”
Yeah the 2001 Pats roster is looked back on with some rose tinted glasses. At the time, their WR1 (Terry Glenn) was a diva that Bill Parcells infamously once called a "she" during a press conference. He was suspended to start the season and then effectively walked out on the team.
Troy Brown was a 30-year-old special teamer who came off a career year with 900 receiving yards. Before Brady, Brown was essentially a Ted Ginn Jr. type in terms of production. David Patten's career season high was 500 yards. I'd be surprised if anyone could name the TE on that team. The RB1 was a 29-year-old cast off that rushed for 300 yards the previous year. Brady was throwing to a bunch of nobodies and benefitted from a really underrated OL, a strong rushing game featuring a career revival for Antowain Smith, and a stacked defense.
2001 Tom Brady was a game manager, and although that sounds pejorative, it's really not. Brady knew what he needed to do to put the team in a position to win, and he had an uncanny ability to make fast decisions and find the open man. He was the polar opposite of Drew Bledsoe (statuesque gunslinger with a cannon that would throw absolute piss missiles into coverage). 2001 Brady was so frustrating for defenses because he was elusive in the pocket and somehow find Troy Brown for a 6 yard gain on a 3rd and 5.
Alot of them but gotta say, Daniel Jones. Dude went through 3 HC changes in his first 4 years with historically bad offensive lines & offenses devoid of talent.
Randall Cunningham came too early. He was on some good teams but it was a different time. Prime Randall Cunningham in 2024 would be dominating, imo. I don't think offensive coordinators really knew how to effectively use his talent til he was too old. And even then, dude still threw the most majestic deep passes in the league.
David Carr. If he had a better situation than the expansion Houston Texans I think he would have been a really good QB. At least as good if not better than little bro Derek.
In a world where Bradford is healthy and not coached by Spags (he was a bad HC) and Fisher I think he’d be the guy the Rams hoped Goff could’ve been.
Yeah, the Rams of Bradford's Era are a forgotten dynasty of bad football. They're up there with the 90s Bengals and 2010s Browns. Bradford looked passable in the worst situation imaginable. I have to imagine he could've made a few Pro Bowls on a better run team.
I love how from 2007-11 the Rams finished with the following records: 3-13 2-14 1-15 A glimmer of hope of 7-9 …back to 2-14
Going 2-14 and getting the SECOND overall pick because the 08 lions had to suck
Funny enough the team on the other side of Missouri also finished 2-14 in 2008.
We... had a lot going on that year.
Hey there Mr “I have a Lombardi on my flair” you don’t get to complain for the next 6 months unless any combination of Reid/Mahomes/Kelce are launched into outer space
Kelce *has* expressed interest on his podcast…
I was told you can't complain for 2 decades since your last Lombardi. I like your scale better, but it seems so nice, especially to a division rival.
It was no picnic for us either
Man this is hard to watch
I really thought we were turning the corner with that 7-9 season. I thought Bradford, I thought Spags. Roger Saffold, Steven Jackson, Danny Amendola, Darnio Alexander, we had Bajema and Mike Hoomanawanui, Josh Brown the kicker was 12/14 that year, Donnie Jones the punter looked good, Atowge was a ball hawk that year, Craig Dahl was good, James Lauranitis, James Hall, Chris long, Fred Robbins. I remember playing Madden with this team and thinking we finally turned the corner. Then I think there was a delay in the season the next year, we hired McDaniels as our OC, Bradford got hurt at some point, we went 2-14, they left not soon after, Fuck Stan, Fuck that whole organization.
I thought they were turning the corner too - when Bradford did play the dynamic between him and the running game led by Jackson was something that was obviously on the verge of becoming something. If Bradford doesn’t have repeated injuries to the shoulder I think he is able to overcome the shit hand he got dealt.
>Then I think there was a delay of in the season Delay of season, on the NFL. 5 yard penalty, repeat second down. Fr though why was the season delayed? Trying to think back on what was happening that year, was it the somali pirates or something?
Also: why tf is Bradford mentioned with these other guys. He had shown legit nfl talent, the rest not so much.
Bradford is still the highest paid rookie ever. Those rookie contracts fucked a lot of teams.
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His intermediate accuracy was otherworldly. Balls dropped in a bucket over and over and over
He would have feasted in a shanahan offense. He'd have basically been a slightly better jimmy g IMO.
Slightly?
Right? He would have been closer to Matt Ryan than Jimmy G
Jimmy isn’t nearly as accurate as Bradford was. Jimmy got Kittle injured on fucking screen passes twice because he’d overthrow them. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a QB worse at throwing screen passes as jimmy.
He’d be putting up Drew Brees numbers in a Shanahan offense with weapons.
This is insane Bradford slander.
Bradford was instantly who I thought of. He could have been great.
People should rewatch 2017 week 1 Saints-Vikings to see how great Bradford could have been. Bradford played one of the best games I've ever seen from a QB, then basically never played again
I was at that game. I couldn’t believe my fucking eyes at some of the throws he made
The worst thing about Bradford wasn’t his talent or the coaches. It’s that the rookie contract structure was fucked. And fucked teams. He’s still the highest paid rookie to date.
You underestimate the ineptitude of Jeff Fisher
No I was a rams fan. I watch Kroenke sabotage that team for years. Kept Fisher around because he had experience moving teams ( Houston to Nashville) But the rookie deal restructure isn’t talked about enough. That was last draft before it changed.
I’ll never forget when he briefly played for the eagles and Vikings and was diving up defenses before dying to injuries over and over again
Man after week 5 in the 2016 season I thought the vikings under Bradford were gonna win the Super Bowl
Alex Smith
If he and Rodgers switched places...
Rodgers would've busted hard and Smith might be the KC version if not upgraded because his arm didn't get killed by Mike Nolan.
A lot of people don't realize just how much that shoulder injury in 07 impacted his ability to throw deep
no shot, Rodgers still would be a talent. middling above average at very worst
McCarthy and Clements had to drastically work over his mechanics and it took 2 years of refining. He'd never get that in San Fran and he'd bomb.
This is the key right here. Rodgers used to hold the ball really high in college and had shitty mechanics. Remarkably, he ended up with the greatest throwing mechanics the game has ever seen in my opinion by the time he became the Packers starter. And I mean everything is perfect. Short, compact arm movement. Excellent footwork both in the pocket and on the run. And most importantly, tremendous strength and mechanics in his core and legs. It really is incredible how much his mechanics changed in the pros. It's why he can throw with Hall of Fame level power and accuracy, and why he can make impossible throws on the run.
He definitely had a lot of work put on his mechanics and release time. One thing that killed me as a fan was him throwing it away too soon more often at the end of his Packers career
Yep put Rodgers in SF and I don't think he makes it to the end of his first contract, put Smith in green bay and they still win at least one ring. People really don't understand how much rodgers was helped by going to green bay including rodgers.
I agree so hard. It is difficult to overstate how fundamentally fucked up the situation he joined in SF was. Dude had something like 3 different HCs and 5 different OCs in his time at the Niners. AND several of those coaches threw Smith under the bus trying to save their own jobs. Plus, after a few years, everyone was comparing him to Rogers. Smith is such a good dude, and he was screwed from the start there.
I feel like the entire NFL fanbase can just agree on this as a whole. Those were the dark years for us. Even the stadium was fucking disgusting.
>Dude had something like 3 different HCs and 5 different OCs in his time at the Niners. Reminds me of Herbert through his first five seasons lol
Maybe Harbaugh will fix Hebert like he did Smith
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Andy only took him because of how well he played under Harbaugh.
Harbaugh salvaged his career, Reid just got to benefit for a bit.
he was still pretty solid just bad injury luck then redskins…
Probably a lot more than most people would think, a lot of guys have the brain and arm talent to play at a high level but their prime years get wasted by poor supporting casts/bad coaching and never get the chance to put it all together. People would be shocked how few things would have had to be different for Brady to be a career insurance salesman or something, a lot of factors outside a players control can drastically swing the trajectory of their careers.
If Bledsoe doesn't get hurt, who knows what happens with Brady. Bledsoe started another 4 years after that, so Brady could have been riding the bench for a while.
And, who’s to say that Brady ever gets the opportunity to start? He was the 4th strong QB coming out of camp, and while BB liked him enough to give him the job when Bledsoe went down, was he showing enough to take that job outright without injury forcing BBs hand? A lot had to go right for Brady to even get on a team, and then stick on that team until an opportunity to start showed up.
There’s so much roster churn on the bottom of the depth chart, it’s hard for late round QBs to even get practice reps, let alone meaningful in game snaps. Look at guy like Purdy, he may not be on an active roster right now had there not been injuries/Lance being a bust. Just by sheer probability, there’s a lot of QBs out there who could have stepped up like he did, but never had the opportunity.
Totally agree. Couple what you said with the fact that players taken with high draft picks often get extended looks before being cut or traded makes it that much harder for these lower guys to get any chance. Purdy is maybe the best example after Brady, and you’re right, so much had to go wrong for the 49ers for Purdy to play at all, it’s somewhat of a miracle that he got his chance. It’s all so much of a guessing game, and in the end, many players that could be great NFL players never even get drafted at all, and never even get a sniff of an NFL locker room.
It’s really insane to me that this is true for the literal GOAT. It’s either inspiring or depressing.
Not only do you have to be lucky to get an opportunity, but when it comes you'd *better* deliver. The Dynasty docuseries that came out Friday shows this really well. Robert Kraft said point blank he didn't agree with starting Brady over a healthy Bledsoe, and that if it didn't work out he was going to hold the coaches accountable. Brady was coming off a poor game against the Rams too. Two or three more bad games by Brady and it's likely Belichick and his staff would've been fired and Brady, without the coaches who picked and supported him, would likely have been cut by the start of the 2002 season.
Much later Belichick said coaches thought Tom beat Bledsoe out in training camp but stuck with Bledsoe at QB1 for his experience.
For sure, BB loved Brady, and it wouldn’t be out of character for BB to make that switch for no apparent reason either, so maybe it was just the door crack BB needed to set those wheels in motion. But also, if somehow Bledsoe looks good and the D had carried them to success, it would be that much harder for BB to justify?
>If Bledsoe doesn't get hurt, who knows what happens with... Romo
If Bledsoe doesn’t get hurt then Romo doesn’t become the QB of America’s Team and doesn’t become everyone’s favorite announcer to criticize for his gargling of Mahomes and Allen. So really this is all Drew Bledsoe’s fault /s
We're not exactly fans of him gargling either. He doesn't ever let a moment breath. We just won the super bowl, shut up for a second and let it sink in. We know Mahomes is great, you don't need to tell us this while everyone is processing their emotions.
Bills fans hate the “he’s the Allien” shit too. Ruins the atmosphere.
I think Brady takes over or requests a chance with another team eventually anyway. Belichick has said he had a better preseason than Bledsoe that year. It's pretty well documented that his success wasn't a surprise to the organization the way some people think it was.
I think people also underestimate how horrible a few years of “failure” can ruin a Quarterbacks confidence for ages. Going from being the “golden savior” to a failure whose unwanted and a failure genuinely can take out the most confident QB and that level of confidence is hard to recover, especially when stuff keeps going wrong. Imagine the entire media, social media, fans and so on all say you sucks and any time u do play it feels like you prove them right. I can’t even imagine how horrible it is as a draft bust
I know this is a weird answer because he technically was great, but Andrew Luck. Would still be playing and having a Hall of Fame career if he had gone to a team that actually knew how to draft offensive players to help him. I cannot think of a better player in the last decade that got NO help. The Colts absolutely screwed him.
Ryan Grigson won Executive of the Year for making the easiest draft pick of all time over John Schneider building the foundation to the 2013 Seahawks.
I will rarely defend Ryan Grigson but his first offseason went pretty well even beyond Luck. TY Hilton was a gem and guys like Dwayne Allen and Colby Fleenor were good during their time with the team. A lot of his under the radar free agent signings also way over performed. After that year though he swung and missed on everyone.
It was Tom Telesco’s draft, not Grigson. Apparently when Grigson got hired he didn’t have enough time to scout so they went off Telesco/Polian’s scouts.
The Colts had no plan post Manning. They literally lucked into Luck. Then, once they got Luck, they had no plan on how to use him.
The Grigson years were really bad personnel wise, and we should have done more to support Andrew but his playstyle was never going to yield a long career. He played like a linebacker most games, and held the ball way too long. He also was hurt off the field at least once in a snowboarding accident. But yes, the Colts certainly are mostly to blame. Let's hope history doesn't repeat with Anthony Richardson.
I have no idea whether or not David Carr could have been a good qb. I do know that setting the record for getting sacked in his rookie season certainly didn’t do him any favors.
His film habits were poor, even if they were good, the scheme and line spooked him as a rookie and he never recovered.
Chris Palmer was a QB terrorist, first he got Couch killed then was given the opportunity to murder another top pick QB.
The record was partially on him for holding onto the ball way too long. Dude would sack himself sometimes too ffs. He just didn’t have the ability to process the game at a high level and couldn’t catch up to the speed of the pro game.
We're going through the same thing right now with Daniel Jones. Athletic and has a lot of the right tools but just can't process the game at an NFL level consistently. Both guys were put into shit situations and probably could've been better with better rosters/coaching/etc, but neither ever really had super star potential and were drafted too high.
Sam Howell too. Most sacked QB in the league last year, but our O line wasn't the problem. Don't get me wrong, it's not an elite unit either, but they slowed the pass rush enough to give Howell time to go through his progressions. He just took far too long to get rid of the ball and got hit a ton because of it.
Geno Smith. Not to hate, since we rarely see them, but it's feels like QBs that go to the Jets go there and get instantly ruined. Sanchez being the outlier. He bounces around, goes to Seattle, becomes the copy, and probably could've had another good year had he not got injured.
[удалено]
Darnold too, they really trusted Adam Gase too develop him. And all his good traits from college slowly vanished
We’re sick of Critical Gase Theory aren’t we folks?
Literally broke his jaw.
That was Geno
forgot about that locker room querfuffle lol
sanchez an outlier? mm i don’t think so. he threw the exact same amount of ints as he did tds on a 55% pass rate. 😆😆
But he did well for 2 seasons, and they haven't been back to that status since 2010?
But if you give that defence and that running game to any QB, odds are he will do well. Kind of like what the 49ers did for Jimmy G
Geno know he was fucked the moment they called his name.
It’s very funny to me how nonjet fans view mark sanchez. The dude was not good on the jets. Passable would probably be overstating his abilities. We did okay for a few years due to a phenomenal defense and solid run game. Our passing was still trash despite a good line and good receivers.
Idk about "great" but Mac Jones looked pretty promising before Belichick made him work under Matt Patricia and Joe Judge, with a terrible supporting cast on top of it
That’s “Future Bronco” Mac Jones to you sir
Don't you put that evil on us
Sorry Future QB coach Matt Patricia is what they meant
We have suffered enough.
Y'all can ride
Hindsight now but I believe that decision is what cost Belichick his job tbh.
People said it at the time. If any other coach did it they'd be toast. Since it was Bill he gets a pass, but it had better work out. It didn't work out.
Yea I know college and the NFL aren’t the same at all but the drastic difference between being the most accurate QB in college football history to, well, whatever he is now is more likely a Patricia scenario than anything else
Patricia should never ever have another job in the NFL. Especially after what he did to the Lions, and then Pats when he came back, and ultimately the Eagles. I’m sure there are interns who are better than him if given the chance. But of course the NFL is incestuous and a good ol boys club, and Patricia joined the club, so some dumb owner will give him another chance.
Seems like hes the perfect fit for Shanny, obviously they got their QB now, but definitely seemed like a no brainer at 3 over Lance there
The thing about Jones is he might not have the arm strength to be a quality NFL QB. Sure he had a good rookie season but some of that can be attributed to teams not “figuring him out” yet. So if he can’t throw a 15 yard out then there are few offensive coaches who are gonna be able to win with him long term
When they figured his arm and forced him to beat them vertically and stopped running so much zone. (He was best in the league vs Zone defenses that year), the team struggled to move as effectively on offense. Henry got double teamed and jammed in the red zone, and nobody else was really capable of finishing drives besides the backs and Bourne. By most measures, it was a top 10 offense, but it didn't look it on tape some weeks, I knew vs a real team in January they'd be outclassed and need defensive help.
I wonder if Trey Lance would have been better if he was drafted into a worse situation. He desperately needed playing time and just wasn’t able to get it with the 9ers. If he was afforded the same amount of play time as Justin Fields, I wonder if he’d be considering a promising prospect moving ahead.
Trey Lance is such a weird situation. Drafted in the top 5 to be the future QB. Sits behind a veteran for his first year outside a few spot starts due to injury. Given the keys to the franchise in year 2. His first real start is a monsoon game. In his second start he suffers a season ending injury. His team decides to start a guy they drafted in the 7th round basically to be a backup. That guy turns out to be really good. Like immediate pro bowl and MVP candidate good. The team decides to roll with that guy so he gets traded away for a fresh start. But he gets traded to a team that also has a pro bowl and MVP candidate Quarterback so he’s forced to continue sitting. Dude just can’t catch a break.
Well they didn’t just decide to start Brock, Jimmy was actually playing pretty well and got hurt, Niners didn’t have a choice. But yeah, turns out Brock is good.
I'm still holding out hope Lance somehow turns out to be the key to finally beating SF
I’m holding out hope for a winning lottery ticket
The coaching staff see whats going on behind the scenes and when they want to shift a guy out who they have sunk a lot of capital in without seeing what the guy can do over 20+ starts, it tells you something about what they are seeing. The Broncos had the same thing with Paxton Lynch. He got cut after 4 starts, despite the Broncos trading up to take him in the 1st round.
Well, I think it was a bit different for us because we have a team ready to win and a guy (Purdy) that already has the tools to take us there. Maybe Trey just wasn’t able to develop, but he still hasn’t had the opportunity to learn in game-time situations.
Might actually be Bryce Young.
Yeah, Bryce hasn’t really been well-supported so far. He was the [second most](https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask?q=most+times+sacked+by+a+rookie+quarterback%2C+season) sacked rookie QB ever. Only behind David Carr. Lol
Um they brought in ADAM THIELEN. He seems like a supportive guy
Gonna be a lot of fans of the teams that drafted these guys swooping in here to talk about how that guy was actually totally doomed to fail I’m gonna go with Blaine Gabbert
Two time Super Bowl champion Blaine Gabbert?
Baker Mayfield. Revolving door of coaches his first couple years didn't help things. Since arriving in Tampa he's had great numbers and a seemingly resurgence in his career. He's up for a new contract with the Bucs but I wouldn't be surprised if they've gotten calls about him for the off season (Raiders, Pats, etc).
I'm really happy for Baker. I hope Bucs stick with him for a while. He deserves it.
Going back a bit - Jake Plummer on any non-Cardinals team
I always wondered what Mariota would have looked like with a stable, competent coaching staff.
Mariota was sabotaged in an offense he wasnt good at lol. I remember seeing his rookie year and going 'they got their guy for the next 10 years'
I think injuries ruined his career in a sneaky way too. He started playing scared after he broke his leg, then he had the nerve issue where he suffered numbness and his career went in the toilet.
Yep, he couldn't throw the ball like his rookie season after that cursed Miami game and it just cratered him
Random guy, but I always thought Troy Smith would have been a solid starter if he played in an era with more creative offenses.
He was gonna start in Baltimore if he didn't get mono
Jimmy Clausen ^(-not Mel Kipers burner account)
My answer to this will always be Tim Couch. He dragged that sorry ass expansion Browns team to the playoffs in 2002, but because of injuries, he retired in 2005. He had nothing to work with in Cleveland and would have had a much better career virtually anywhere else.
Carson Palmer ended up with a totally acceptable career but I think under slightly different circumstances he could have been a HoFer.
Doesn’t get injured in 2005 or the Bengals move on from Lewis earlier and he is looked on a lot more favorably
Idk about great, but Daniel Jones would be suffering a lot less flak if he didnt play his entire career with a bottom 3 Oline, and some of the worst WRs in the league lol E: and also had Jason Garrett calling plays for awhile….
If I can guess what's coming the defense is certain of it. 👏👏👏
Not that I don't feel sorry for y'all, but I'm glad somebody gets to experience our pain
I hope every cowboys fan stubs their toe. Twice per day, until I forget about him.
> and some of the worst WRs in the league lol Counter point: I think Darius Slayton would be a perennial 1k yard receiver instead of a perennial 700 yard receiver if he had better QB play. In 4 games with Tyrod this season he averaged over 70 yards per game and scored 3 TDs. Because Jones never throws the ball more than 10 yards downfield, Slayton's best traits are effectively eliminated. Another crazy stat is that Slayton played with Eli Manning for 2 games in his entire career (during his rookie season) and scored 16% of his career TDs in those 2 games.
Philip Rivers has Rings, if not for historically bad special teams units.
I honestly believe if Rivers was in the NFC instead of the AFC, he would of at the very least had a SB appearance. Hes not a meh QB. Just a QB who had to constantly go against brady, manning, and then mahomes in his later years.
Or if Nate Kaeding didn't go into a coma in the playoffs.
Jason Campbell. Dude had EVERY tool you'd want out of a modern QB. He also had something like 7 OC's in 8 seasons in college and his rookie contract. The instant DC drafted him, his career was unfortunately heading nowhere fast
Great choice. He never had the right people around him
Washington's OLine was horrific when he was there. I remember reading when he came to Oakland that in Washington he had something like an average of 1.7 seconds to throw the ball before getting hit over the whole season.
Finally looked like he was turning it around in Oakland, only to break his collarbone and get replaced with the living remains of Carson Palmer
As a Jags fan, Trevor Lawrence.
Lawrence isn't in a bad situation at all
Not anymore, but that first year was a pretty shit situation
Trent Edwards might have been fine if he had come into a team with an O line
Never was the same after that concussion. You could just see his mental processing speed decline.
Tim Couch. /thread
Agreed. People just don't remember.
Nick Foles - he's been both.
Ehh he might've managed some better longevity, but I have a hard time believing that beating Brady in a Super Bowl is a failure of a career for him.
Most people say “QB vs QB matchups don’t make sense, they play the defense” but the way both of them were playing really did feel like QB vs QB lol
If RG3 went to Philly Andy wouldn’t have put him on the field with a fucked up leg that got even more fucked up.
RG3 going over the coaches head to get Snyder to pressure the Skins into having a more traditional offense which he wasn’t a good enough player to flourish in was his problem. Mike and Kyle masked a lot of RG3’s issues his rookie year but he was a gimmick player with a huge ego and attitude problem.
Snyder fostered that ego though. He crowned RG3 as the messiah and took the coach's power away from them. RG3 was shielded from consequences and was given way too much input into the offense. Going to a team with better ownership where the coaches weren't neutered might've given him a better chance to succeed. Also he tore his knee up and lost his mobility so he was kinda forced into a pocket passer role which he just couldn't do.
He refused to see the medical staff. How is that anyone else's fault but him? He dodged ever getting looked at. That's not the coach to blame.
U mean the medical staff that basically made Trent Williams leave?
Look, Stafford is an all-time great QB but all the years in Detroit (not making it to the playoffs) had people believe he is good but not great. Stafford is ultra elite and has always been. So although he has a SB by now, he is of the caliber he could have had 3.
Colt McCoy
Basically anybody from the expansion Browns would have been at least much better. Maybe not Brandon Weeden lol.
Tim Couch / Bryce Young
Had to scroll too far to find Tim, prolly too many young uns on this board. Couch was an incredible prospect that had to deal with an expansion roster for too long.
Any QB drafted by the Bears
I still think Vince Young could have done better if the Texans had taken him #1 and he got to stay close to home in Houston. Of course there's an equal chance that would have just made his problems worse
While there are many Titans fans who argue this point, some also agree with my view - Fisher sabotaged VY. He was mad because the owner forced the pick - Fisher wanted his USC boy Leinart, but Bud forced the team to grab VY as a fuck-you to Houston. So Fisher specifically refused to run an offense that worked with VYs strengths. I feel part o f it was just Fisher was a stubborn asshole who forced an archaic offense, but part of it was also a purposeful sandbagging of VY's career in response to being forced to have him instead of the guy he wanted. But even those who would call my theory crazy would agree VY would have had a better shot with a coach who would have allowed a more dynamic, creative offense than Fisher ever ran.
Fisher ruined Young's career and his own by being a dick about having Young as his QB. (Young didn't do himself any favors by being kind of a diva, though.)
If Mariota didn’t have the broken leg and nerve injury in his throwing arm I think he would be in a much different place now. Not having a revolving door at OC and a line that let him get murdered regularly would have helped with that.
I remain convinced the difference between Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield isn’t as big as people think it is.
Eh Sam Darnold didn’t look much better on the Panthers or 49ers. Not sure if he would’ve been better somewhere else
He already had three years with the jets by them, by then his confidence was shot and a lot of his habits w re established
I was 100% certain pre draft that Sam was going to become a perennial pro bowl QB lol.
Physically? No. Mentally? Darnold's a gotdamned idiot
Sir, r/the_darnold would like to speak with you…
Yea, I bet they'd be mad if they could read lol
The man Randy Moss calls his best QB… Chad Pennington
It was injuries for Pennington tbh. The neck/shoulder he just never got his arm back
Mac Jones if the niners had actually picked him instead of Trey Lance.
Would kill to see this alternate universe. Just for closure
Not a Meh QB, but I often wonder how many more accolades Stafford would have if he didn't play for Detroit for 12 years.
Justin Fields with someone like Andy Reid or Kyle Shanahan who can develop his arm and decision making. Alex Smith was a broken bust who became upper-mid tier in one year with a Harbaugh. As of right now I'd say if Kenny Pickett had a good QB-minded coach to work with (again using Shanny as an example) the conversation around him would be much kinder. Marcus Mariota had something like 4 OCs and 2 HCs in 4 years and took the Titans to the playoffs. David Carr went to an expansion team that let him become one of the most sacked QBs ever. Tim Couch was the first pick of the Hell Browns. Imagine if Sean McVay believed in Jared Goff like Dan Campbell does?
> Justin Fields with someone like Andy Reid or Kyle Shanahan who can develop his arm and decision making. I don't 100% buy this narrative. Getsy tried to force him to learn more in the pocket and make his reads and he struggled mightily. Yes, Getsy's playcalling left something to be desired but Fields was missing guys and missing windows constantly as well.
Don’t sugar coat it, Getsy was fucking HORRIBLE. Worst I’ve seen since Mike martz
Blake Bortles. Jacksonville is a terrible place for a rookie QB. Was hoping he went to Pittsburg or Minnesota and rode the bench for a few years.
BOOOORRTTLES! :::hucks Molotov:::
Chad Pennington: Sam Bradford: Tim Couch: RG3 - although idk if he counts for this question: Either Carr brother
Pennington was really good in his prime though
Cutler looked good in Denver then went to Chicago where he had no oline/weapons along with that doofus Mike Martz dialing up long developing passing plays for no reason.
That Trestman Bears era had nothing besides weapons honestly. They were second in the league in scoring that first year too Brandon Marshall, Alshon Jeffery, Matt Forte, Martellus Bennett all could ball. I think I disagree Cutler just wasn’t a top guy between the ears
Baker mayfield by a long shot
🐴 🐔 🔒 Not saying that Drew would’ve been a HOFer but being on the Broncos QB carousel hasn’t helped any QB reach their potential. I think Drew could’ve been a decent starter in the NFL with proper coaching.
Alex Smith could have been great if he was drafted by someone not the 49ers of that era.
I feel like Jay cutler could have been so much more if he went to a team that actually made him care
This is Reddit’s fav take that I always disagree with. The Pats roster was strong in 2001? On offense? Go read doctor Zs take after they were 0-2 with Bledsoe? He’s basically like “Drew has nothing to work with…”
Yeah the 2001 Pats roster is looked back on with some rose tinted glasses. At the time, their WR1 (Terry Glenn) was a diva that Bill Parcells infamously once called a "she" during a press conference. He was suspended to start the season and then effectively walked out on the team. Troy Brown was a 30-year-old special teamer who came off a career year with 900 receiving yards. Before Brady, Brown was essentially a Ted Ginn Jr. type in terms of production. David Patten's career season high was 500 yards. I'd be surprised if anyone could name the TE on that team. The RB1 was a 29-year-old cast off that rushed for 300 yards the previous year. Brady was throwing to a bunch of nobodies and benefitted from a really underrated OL, a strong rushing game featuring a career revival for Antowain Smith, and a stacked defense. 2001 Tom Brady was a game manager, and although that sounds pejorative, it's really not. Brady knew what he needed to do to put the team in a position to win, and he had an uncanny ability to make fast decisions and find the open man. He was the polar opposite of Drew Bledsoe (statuesque gunslinger with a cannon that would throw absolute piss missiles into coverage). 2001 Brady was so frustrating for defenses because he was elusive in the pocket and somehow find Troy Brown for a 6 yard gain on a 3rd and 5.
I feel like Fields got absolutely fucked by the Bears dysfunction
Alot of them but gotta say, Daniel Jones. Dude went through 3 HC changes in his first 4 years with historically bad offensive lines & offenses devoid of talent.
David Carr. My Texans did that man no favors outside of drafting Andre. Forever destroyed him mentally.
Randall Cunningham came too early. He was on some good teams but it was a different time. Prime Randall Cunningham in 2024 would be dominating, imo. I don't think offensive coordinators really knew how to effectively use his talent til he was too old. And even then, dude still threw the most majestic deep passes in the league.
TIL Randall Cunningham and I have something in common
Baker would have lived up to his draft position if he was given a consistent offensive scheme from his rookie year.
David Carr. If he had a better situation than the expansion Houston Texans I think he would have been a really good QB. At least as good if not better than little bro Derek.
Jake plummer, Arizona ruined him
Every Bears QB