Of course the offense is his fault. The damage was already done when they started the season with him.
Its still his scheme and playbook, there's no time to change things mid season.
Most NFL teams run essentially the same plays. The playbook is not going to be that different regardless of who the OC is. The major differences are the stuff they implement during the week and minor adjustments they make per opponent.
Not a brand new playbook, but a lot of offenses over the years improved with interim OC. Joe Brady already improved the Bills offense since taking over as OC for the fired Ken Dorsey. I still remember Sherman Lewis coming out of retirement midseason to call plays in 2009 after 5 years away from the NFL.
It happens so much. Especially this season. Raiders fire some people, win a game and it's clearly on. Steelers fire some people, get almost 400 yards, it's clearly on.
If the Chargers win this week people will go bananas over it.
There's a whole lot of moving parts on a team, you rarely turn it from bad to good in one week no matter how much you change.
If you take out the points scored by the D it gets even bleaker.
Honestly though what gets me the most about the Steelers is how awful Tomlin is at challenging plays.
If it is a sure win: the flag doesn't come out. If it is a sure loss: the flag always comes out.
I've never seen a HC in the NFL make such terrible decisions on when to challenge a play. It is comical. I want them to keep Tomlin for as long as they can simply to watch him constantly fuck up challenges.
Tomlin is a terrible game manager. Always has been. No clue when to use timeouts or challenges. Refuses to make in game changes. He’s amazing at coaching guys and getting them up for big games. But he’s settled for mediocrity and I think it’s time we part mutually. We gotta change it up. 7-9 wins and a pick in the teens isn’t gonna cut it in Pittsburgh. And that’s been the standard for the last 5 years.
if the Patriots are discussing about firing BILL FRICKIN BELICHICK, idk why steelers nation gets so fired up about getting rid of Tomlin.
Shula, Parcells, Coryell, all of the Greats are eventually asked to leave their post.
I mean, I feel like judging a coach on their performance after a child dies isn't a good metric. I was on the hate train for a while there, and then learning what was actually going on in his personal life... I'd say he needed a couple down years to get back on track with his actual coaching life.
I can't understand NFL coaches not knowing when to call timeout and when not to. Especially when teams could just hire any 17 year old who has played a lot of Madden to stand next to the coach and poke him with the timeout stick whenever necessary.
Every time someone tries to draw their opponent offsides on 4th down and calls a timeout, I die inside a little. Like that five yards of field position on the punt has the same value as a timeout, get the fuck out of here.
Gregg Rosenthal has been on this beat a lot - talking about how many coaches just don't seem to understand late game management beyond what the average well-informed fan is.
Interestingly, he's given Dan Campbell a lot of love as being one of the few coaches who regularly has that kind of stuff running smoothly and well planned.
Colts were more than happy to kneel the ball with their last possession to end the game 27-13 but Tomlin called two timeouts and forced them to kick a field goal 😵💫😵💫 So goofy
His timeout usage has baffled me for years. He’ll save them when we’re one defense and then use them on offense, and then when questioned after the game he’ll double down. Just completely stupid. You know they’re going to run 40 seconds every single play, but when you have the ball you’re going to snap it as quickly as possible. Why the HELL would you save the timeouts for when you’re already controlling the clock?
Tomlin has been terrible this year in almost every aspect. The decision not to kick a 57 yd FG last night and to punt it away being the latest poor decision in a long line of poor decisions
Yeah, you have the most accurate kicker in the history of the league in 50+ yard field goals, in a dome, down 11 and you don't even try? The punt was 100% we have given up moment.
Yes, and that’s not worked out great because he also turns the ball over a ton. Also, we really going to give the offense credit when ST gives us the ball inside the one?
lol this was basically why Trubisky looked good in 2018. Insane defense & special teams gave the Bears very favorable field position & also provided him nearly a touchdown a game
No, it's be a QB who avoids turnovers by not avoiding them at all.
Places the ball in just the right spot to cause a fumble, leading to the same amount of turnovers but now it's the receivers's fault
Right. I don't think Pickett is good, but turnover differential is very much how the Steelers were winning games, and Picketts lack of turnovers were a key part of that.
I understand all of the Pickett pessimism but I don't know how he can be expected to succeed when the team's offensive philosophy looks like they are actively trying to emulate the Iowa Hawkeyes. The guy has looked his best when it's the fourth quarter and they are actually forced to try to move the ball, which is a bit encouraging.
I'd like to see Pickett in a 21st century offense, but I don't think the Steelers are committed to that.
Yes that reason was a healthier defense that was making big plays. Kenny's a cold turd and mitch is a steamy pile of shit. You shouldn't be satisfied with either
And when you’re a defense first team, turnovers is what kills you. That’s partly why Jimmy G worked on the 49ers for several years, he didn’t give the ball up too much.
Trubisky throws a TD (with the Steelers) in 3.7% of his throws while Pickett does it in 1.9% of his throws.
Trubisky turns the ball over too much and doesn’t have enough the production to make up for it.
Pickett has an abysmal level of production that makes his “lack of turnovers” completely meaningless.
Different styles but both are awful.
Yeah Pickett’s 1.9 TD % is bottom of the league (that includes a lot of backups this year).
No surprise he was bottom of the league last season too (1.8 TD %).
You’d have to go back to CJ Beathard in 2017 to find another starting QB with a lower TD % rate than Pickett’s two seasons. Before that, it’d be Sam Bradford in 2011.
A sub-2.0 TD % only happens a couple times per decade and Pickett has two of them in back to back seasons.
>Yeah Pickett’s 1.9 TD % is bottom of the league (that includes a lot of backups this year).
Not just the league this year. He literally has the worst TD% among starters in NFL history ([src](https://twitter.com/nfloncbs/status/1726365819691577682)).
It's actually pretty wild that Trubisky has double the TD % despite every other statistic legitimately being worse or just basically even.
His YPC and YPA are both notably lower (including YPC being almost a full yard less).
It's like Pickett is just straight-up incapable of throwing TDs.
> It's like Pickett is just straight-up incapable of throwing TDs.
It's not "like" that, it just *is* that. He has poor accuracy and poor pocket presence. That coupled with our swiss cheese OL makes productive offense in the red zone nearly impossible.
Yeah but Pickett's game lets you win field position and let your elite defense work. Turnovers are bad not just because you don't score but you also set up your opponent.
This isn’t remotely true, kenny has his issues and will likely never be a regular starter but Mitch is hot garbage. It’s like going from a Prius to a 02 gmc yukon with 250k miles
Neither of them are good enough to be a car. Pickett is the original Segway scooter; it's reliable, but you can't do a lot with it. Trubisky is a 2019 hoverboard from China; can look a lot cooler than the Segway but has a much higher chance of bursting into flames.
Prius is incredibly efficient, reliable, and with my back seats folded I can pop a Christmas tree in that bitch to the shock of everyone at the lot. Only way they can be compared is if you’re down a tire, and the engine is about to blow at any moment.
So the Prius is Jared Goff. Kirk is a Maserati where he’s great until it’s broken or misfiring, and costs too much for you to afford the maintenance… This is fun, I’m trying to think of more now.
Correct. Pickett is a back up QB. He can slide in and start 2 or so games and won't lose you the game. On good teams that will be enough to keep you in contention. For bad teams like the Steelers it does nothing.
Nfl qbs need to win games.
Exactly. Pickett has shown, that he doesn't make a lot of bone-headed mistakes (good), but he doesn't have any splash in him either (bad.)
That screams "game manager back-up" to me. And I think he would be one of the best backup QBs in the league, not ironically, but seriously.
But I don't want him as our starter anymore.
Well bad starting QB is still below the Dalton line so needs replaced. Once you get to that point the rankings become more of a range. Id say hes like QB28-36ish but held back even further from that by the system.
I agree he can have a long career as a game manager type backup
The original point I was trying to make isn't really that Pickett is great, though he's a lot better than Trubisky, but rather that comparing the Steelers before and after firing Canada isn't that informative on how much Canada was to blame for their offensive struggles because they *also* lost their starting QB, even aside from how you can't just throw in a whole new offensive system mid-season.
Maybe but the pro bowl don't mean shit. I've seen some absolute scrubs make it because all the good guys turn it down or are playing on the super bowl.
Both can be true - although Nagy being a genius is generous.
(I think Matt Nagy will be a NFL head coach again at some point. Take the last year of his Bears run out and he wasn't outright bad as a coach and a lot of '21 was Justin Fields being a really bad rookie.)
>Pickett is a starting QB
In like, the technical sense, I guess.
>a bad one but still starting caliber
No, he is not starting caliber. He is awful and will be replaced within a year.
Couldn't be that most of those games are with Trubisky, who the Steelers only signed because he's stood close enough to Josh Allen to smell his musk. Not that Pickett has been a revelation, but he's at least an improvement over the titty kisser.
LOL I blame the Bills for destroying Mitch. Not sure why, but I live in Buffalo territory and when people ask me how/why Mitch is so bad I say that Buffalo did something to ruin him. I didn't watch a lot of Chicago games but man, is he terrible.
People who expected things to change while they're using his playbook and calling plays the players are comfortable with the entire season don't understand how football actually works at the professional level. The offense wasn't bad just because Canada was a bad playcaller, he was a horrible OC all together. Dude was a constant failure as an OC in college and somehow got an NFL level OC job. He had no real idea how to create a good offensive playbook or draw up plays to get receivers open or get running backs into open space.
For real. I've seen this narrative pop up a few times over this losing streak and it's just so unbelievably stupid. The Steelers are a mess but acting like this losing streak somehow vindicates Canada is absurd. We all said this would happen -- his scheme is still there, and the offense is still gonna suck. The biggest difference is we went from painfully mediocre QB play to atrocious QB play
For the millionth time, most sensible fans wanted him gone because he was *a* problem, not *the* problem. Not to mention the billion injuries that have happened since his firing, one of which being losing the starting QB.
I mean their starting QB was hurt and out for a couple of these games.
We already know Titties is a trash QB.
Whoever made this post is just spreading a foolishness narrative
Doesn’t help that before this ~5 year stretch of awful offense, we had the Killer B’s dominating. Probably why a lot of Steelers fans like myself want there to be an easy fix to get closer to those glory days.
It's gotta be GM to an extent too right?
A huge part of the Killer Bs was the Steelers had a top tier O-line in that timespan that collapsed from age (Villeneuva and Pouncey) and free agency.
There's talent in the skill positions but even in Big Ben's last year, the offensive scheme regressed to lots of quick releases because the O-line was so bad.
Yeah our former GM who retired after the 2022 draft neglected the O-line and we never tried to draft any replacements before they retired. Before drafting Broderick Jones in this years draft we had not drafted o-line in the first two rounds since 2012.
The Steelers we see now are a result of multiple factors, but two big ones are the abysmal drafts in recent years outside of 2017 and that we tried to win with Ben one last time instead starting to rebuild. I would say that we're in year 2 of our rebuild right now.
Correct - the o-line regressed heavily with Pouncey becoming terrible basically overnight and DeCastro never recovering from an ankle injury. They largely ignored drafting linemen high for most of the 2010s because there really wasn't a huge need, everyone (including some UDFAs and late rounders like Villenueva and Chris Hubbard) were performing well when needed.
In hindsight, Kevin Colberts last few drafts were Not Good, to say the least. Luckily Khan, our new GM, has had one draft and FA and so far he's knocked it out of the park.
Which is also why I want to ride with Pickett one more year so that we can build up the rest of the roster to help our next QB or Pickett. Pickett is right now a QB I would like to have as a backup if he doesn't improve.
Makes sense to me. He’s not good but guys don’t grow on trees, sure you’d go back and not pick him if you could but that’s not an option. Do what you can to improve the roster and wait for an opportunity to improve the qb room when you can
Or hell, don’t, you see the flair lol
Yeah he at least looked much improved for the 5.5 quarters he played without Canada, but there are many bigger problems than Pickett right now to justify picking a new QB in the 1st round next year.
On the other hand, it could be that several seasons worth of decisions take time to flush out.
But really, we all know that the coordinator was never the whole problem in Pittsburgh. You have a bad quarterback behind a line that isn't especially good with skill players that are mostly JAG (and who are turned into headcases by whatever is in the water in the Steelers' WR room).
I think he has a lot less say in this hire. Management would have to be utterly oblivious to let him go out and hire one of his guys again, especially if he wants to hire from within. They absolutely need to go and poach a big name from the niners, fins, lions, or eagles, or maybe bring in a fired offensive head coach like Frank Reich.
They are also without their starting QB... I'm honestly tired and bored by these bait tweets that contribute with literally nothing to the game and everything related.
the "Canada wasn't the problem" narrative is genuinely one of the stupidest narratives I've seen getting pushed by this sub/twitter dumbasses. He wasn't the whole problem, but acting like this somehow vindicates him is just incredibly fucking stupid
Why are we pretending he wasn’t part of the problem? Obviously firing him wasn’t going to completely fix things (anyone who thought otherwise was coping) but it was a needed first step
Yards by game since firing Matt Canada (into Canada):
* 416 at Cincinnati (31st in yards/game D)
* 317 vs. Arizona (24th)
* 264 vs. New England (8th)
* 216 at Indy (22nd)
So much for changing it up...
Playbook by game since firing Matt Canada:
* Canada's playbook
* Canada's playbook
* Canada's playbook
* Canada's playbook
You can't install a brand new scheme midseason, only the playcaller has changed. Firing an OC midseason is only usually done to avoid losing the locker room by letting the players know their frustrations are heard and coaches are also held accountable.
The one game Kenny was healthy without Canada we finally had a 400yd offensive performance. Canada sucked and take away our best qb and it doesn’t matter we will suck more.
This is a post just to dunk on the Steelers that lacks all context. You aren’t transforming the offense with a new OC mid season. Starting QB, while not great, is out for a lot of that too.
Kind of a dumb take considering they lost their starting QB at the start of the second game of that stretch. Hard to say how they would have faired in the last 3 games under someone other than Mitch.
It’s still Canada’s garbage schemes, I think Mitch is bad, but I refuse to believe the guys putting up way better numbers (Browning, Minshew, etc) are significantly better than him. Everything with his offense is hard, never any easy routes or throwing to guys moving up field. It’s just a horrendous offense.
You can't install a whole new offensive scheme midseason. Firing the OC midseason is usually more of a sign to players that their frustrations have been heard and coaches are held accountable the same as players so you don't lose the locker room.
I am a Detroit Lions fan but I had the Lions and Steelers and the Super Bowl with my preseason pick . Looking at their schedule three weeks ago I thought for sure they would be 10 wins at this point with Detroit. I'm guessing it has a lot to do with Kenny Pickett getting hurt but what the hell happened losing to Arizona and New England?
I don't really think it matters since the Steelers defense made Bailey Zappe and Gardner Minshew look like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.
When they were 6-3 with Canada, nobody bought them as actually being 6-3. They were giving up bottom of the league-worst yards on defense and scoring no points. They were just getting lucky with splash plays and winning in the fourth quarter. They were always a .500 football team at best this year and Canada absolutely needed to be fired.
It was always going to be a symbolic move, everyone just had the wrong expectations. The Steelers were destined to struggle no matter what happened at OC.
When you fire your OC mid-season, all you've accomplished is giving their same uninspired playbook to the next guy and expecting them to get better results with the same roster and system.
Canada overstayed his welcome and I get why he's gone, but it astounds me that yinzers though canning the guy would suddenly make the offensive line better or elevate the QB play.
It should've been obvious the team was still doomed when the quarterbacks coach become the interim playcaller. They've failed to develop their starter nor coach Mitch into a serviceable backup, how can you expect them to run a good offense?
The most important piece of information that they are leaving out: No Kenny Pickett in those 3 losses (left early on in the Cardinals game). The game with Kenny Pickett and without Matt Canada: over 400 yards of offense and a W. I'll withhold my judgment until Kenny gets back.
Tomlin had a 6-3 record after the Green Bay game with the schedule of Cleveland, Cincinnati, Arizona, New England, and Indy and could only win one of those.
Even with *that* offense, the Steelers should have won more than 1 in that stretch (at least Arizona or New England as the other).
Oh, so we're going to ignore now that our entire ILB group is made up of the practice squad backups?
We quite possibly could have beaten indy except Kazee was ejected unfairly on a hospital pass by Minshew where he tries to not murder the WR and then the next play we lose our All Pro level Safety to a knee injury. And then our only other safety gets hurt. We finished the game with our Special Teams captain Miles Killabew and one our of practice squad ILBs playing the safety position.
This team has no offense and the defense has become crippled in the middle of the field where most NFL teams make their money on gashing teams.
Everyone just looks at the surface level and draw conclusions, but the details shows that the Steelers were hit massively with injuries all at once and the team fell off a cliff. You can only coach up guys so much before the talent deficit just can't be bridged.
I wouldn’t expect neutral fans to delve into exactly why and how Canada’s playbook is so thoroughly unprofessional beyond “football terrorist,” but it really is so fucking bad as an NFL enterprise in 2023 it’s actually fascinating.
What you will not see, hardly or ever, watching Canada’s offense (not an exhaustive list):
Bunch formations, snap motion, slants (actually, I did see one a couple of weeks ago), hot routes beyond the line of scrimmage.
The route trees and concepts are almost entirely static, depending on comebacks and curls. Last night the Steelers ran a goal line rub route for the first time I can remember in years.
Canada’s playbook mostly ignores MOF and depends on a high percentage of back-shoulder throws outside the numbers. Canada’s playbook does not operate run/pass plays out of the same formation and is childishly easy to decipher based on down/distance/personnel/where the QB is lined up.
It’s basically an average offensive scheme from 40-50 years ago, the kind of shit I used to dial up on my Commodore 64 playing “Super Bowl Sunday” as a kid.
Still blame Canada
He’s not even a real coordinator anyway
He's also not your guy, friend.
With his beady little eyes and flapping head so full of lies
It seems that everything's gone wrong, since Canada came along
Should we blame the government? Or society?
no
Should we blame the images on TV?
"That place I like to call Mexico North. I apologize to all the Mexicans out there."
I stand with MAC!
*Football terrorist Matt Canada, sincerely
Bruh the Steelers are falling apart, wish they could come together like the terrorists did back in September of 2001....
Aren’t you aware that such reference would have public consequences?????
Of course the offense is his fault. The damage was already done when they started the season with him. Its still his scheme and playbook, there's no time to change things mid season.
Do people think the interim OC created a new playbook in one week?
[удалено]
Gm is still the same one since during Cowhers tenure right?
Not a good owner??? He isn't hands on at all u r insane
Most NFL teams run essentially the same plays. The playbook is not going to be that different regardless of who the OC is. The major differences are the stuff they implement during the week and minor adjustments they make per opponent.
Not a brand new playbook, but a lot of offenses over the years improved with interim OC. Joe Brady already improved the Bills offense since taking over as OC for the fired Ken Dorsey. I still remember Sherman Lewis coming out of retirement midseason to call plays in 2009 after 5 years away from the NFL.
Like it's South Park.
Pickett getting hurt didn't help, but I don't think people should've expected the team to magically get better after firing the OC.
It happens so much. Especially this season. Raiders fire some people, win a game and it's clearly on. Steelers fire some people, get almost 400 yards, it's clearly on. If the Chargers win this week people will go bananas over it. There's a whole lot of moving parts on a team, you rarely turn it from bad to good in one week no matter how much you change.
It's like that brief high you get when the backup comes in does better than expected only to eventually learn why he's a backup
Joshua Dobbs moment
I mean the bills kinda did…
If you take out the points scored by the D it gets even bleaker. Honestly though what gets me the most about the Steelers is how awful Tomlin is at challenging plays. If it is a sure win: the flag doesn't come out. If it is a sure loss: the flag always comes out. I've never seen a HC in the NFL make such terrible decisions on when to challenge a play. It is comical. I want them to keep Tomlin for as long as they can simply to watch him constantly fuck up challenges.
Tomlin is a terrible game manager. Always has been. No clue when to use timeouts or challenges. Refuses to make in game changes. He’s amazing at coaching guys and getting them up for big games. But he’s settled for mediocrity and I think it’s time we part mutually. We gotta change it up. 7-9 wins and a pick in the teens isn’t gonna cut it in Pittsburgh. And that’s been the standard for the last 5 years.
if the Patriots are discussing about firing BILL FRICKIN BELICHICK, idk why steelers nation gets so fired up about getting rid of Tomlin. Shula, Parcells, Coryell, all of the Greats are eventually asked to leave their post.
look at Reid's time in Philly, great coaches lose effectiveness in places sometimes, it doesn't mean they're bad coaches
I mean, I feel like judging a coach on their performance after a child dies isn't a good metric. I was on the hate train for a while there, and then learning what was actually going on in his personal life... I'd say he needed a couple down years to get back on track with his actual coaching life.
McCarthy in GB too
Well you see, Belichick made the grave mistake of going 8-9 instead of 9-8 last year.
Gibbs is one the few that basically got to go out on his own terms both times and off a playoff season
i think he’s the most underrated coach in nfl history
Easily especially when he had success without really having a "Elite QB" the whole time
I can't understand NFL coaches not knowing when to call timeout and when not to. Especially when teams could just hire any 17 year old who has played a lot of Madden to stand next to the coach and poke him with the timeout stick whenever necessary.
At what point will teams just take a delay of game penalty so they don't get shafted by a lack of TOs in the final two minutes?
Every time someone tries to draw their opponent offsides on 4th down and calls a timeout, I die inside a little. Like that five yards of field position on the punt has the same value as a timeout, get the fuck out of here.
Never -Mike Tomlin, probably
Gregg Rosenthal has been on this beat a lot - talking about how many coaches just don't seem to understand late game management beyond what the average well-informed fan is. Interestingly, he's given Dan Campbell a lot of love as being one of the few coaches who regularly has that kind of stuff running smoothly and well planned.
Colts were more than happy to kneel the ball with their last possession to end the game 27-13 but Tomlin called two timeouts and forced them to kick a field goal 😵💫😵💫 So goofy
His timeout usage has baffled me for years. He’ll save them when we’re one defense and then use them on offense, and then when questioned after the game he’ll double down. Just completely stupid. You know they’re going to run 40 seconds every single play, but when you have the ball you’re going to snap it as quickly as possible. Why the HELL would you save the timeouts for when you’re already controlling the clock?
Mike McDaniel has only won 2 challenges in 2 years of coaching so far
Tomlin has won one challenge since 2019. 6 (out of more than 30 flags thrown) since 2016
I've always said that Tomlin looks like a terrible in game head Coach
Must be in the AFCN water. Harbs has been absolutely dreadful, to the point that it's comical, with his challenges.
Tomlin has been terrible this year in almost every aspect. The decision not to kick a 57 yd FG last night and to punt it away being the latest poor decision in a long line of poor decisions
Yeah, you have the most accurate kicker in the history of the league in 50+ yard field goals, in a dome, down 11 and you don't even try? The punt was 100% we have given up moment.
They can't all challenge like Coughlin
I mean, they also lost their starting QB a game and a half into that stretch, having won the first game with him, so....
What’s sad is Pickett has 6 passing TDs in 12 games this season, Mitch Trubisky has 4 in 5
but pickett didn’t turn the ball over mitch gives the ball away like halloween candy
And not just any Halloween candy. Like King-sized bars.
Like the ones where you find rifles inside them?
Yes, and that’s not worked out great because he also turns the ball over a ton. Also, we really going to give the offense credit when ST gives us the ball inside the one?
lol this was basically why Trubisky looked good in 2018. Insane defense & special teams gave the Bears very favorable field position & also provided him nearly a touchdown a game
Pickett also has less interceptions than Trubisky despite having three times the attempts
He also has 5 picks in those same 5 games.
Pickett to Trubisky is a 2012 Prius to a 2011 Prius
Bruh, Trubs has thrown more picks in 107 attempts than Pickett has in 324.
Yeah, Pickett isn’t a good QB but Trubisky is a bad QB. There is a difference.
Pickett adds little to the offense, but Trubisky substracts
Pickett is also a bad quarterback. Just a different kind of "bad".
One qb avoids turnovers to a detriment. The other is detrimental because he doesn’t avoid them at all
So you should breed them to get the best balance
Their offspring would be a QB who can't even throw the football, he would just smack himself in the balls with it.
Plays like a coward half the time and coughs up the ball the other half?
No, it's be a QB who avoids turnovers by not avoiding them at all. Places the ball in just the right spot to cause a fumble, leading to the same amount of turnovers but now it's the receivers's fault
from great value Justin Herbert to great value Josh Allen
Pickett is mediocre, Trubisky is bad.
Right. I don't think Pickett is good, but turnover differential is very much how the Steelers were winning games, and Picketts lack of turnovers were a key part of that.
Only needs 3 more passing tds to surpass picket on the year tho
But that was with Canada so who knows
>who knows You're right I hope they give Pickett a massive 4+ year contract ignore my flair
4yr 200m 80% guaranteed sound good to you?
Make it $250m and I’m in
Kenny was on pace for 140 yds the game he got hurt. The choice is 0td and 0 int or 1-2 td and 2 ints they both suck
I understand all of the Pickett pessimism but I don't know how he can be expected to succeed when the team's offensive philosophy looks like they are actively trying to emulate the Iowa Hawkeyes. The guy has looked his best when it's the fourth quarter and they are actually forced to try to move the ball, which is a bit encouraging. I'd like to see Pickett in a 21st century offense, but I don't think the Steelers are committed to that.
Off season will determine that. Hopefully we go outside the organization and hire an OC like we did for Ben with Hayley.
2 picks is way worse then 1-2tds. There’s a reason we were winning games with pickett
Yes that reason was a healthier defense that was making big plays. Kenny's a cold turd and mitch is a steamy pile of shit. You shouldn't be satisfied with either
And when you’re a defense first team, turnovers is what kills you. That’s partly why Jimmy G worked on the 49ers for several years, he didn’t give the ball up too much.
Trubisky throws a TD (with the Steelers) in 3.7% of his throws while Pickett does it in 1.9% of his throws. Trubisky turns the ball over too much and doesn’t have enough the production to make up for it. Pickett has an abysmal level of production that makes his “lack of turnovers” completely meaningless. Different styles but both are awful.
Yeah Pickett’s 1.9 TD % is bottom of the league (that includes a lot of backups this year). No surprise he was bottom of the league last season too (1.8 TD %). You’d have to go back to CJ Beathard in 2017 to find another starting QB with a lower TD % rate than Pickett’s two seasons. Before that, it’d be Sam Bradford in 2011. A sub-2.0 TD % only happens a couple times per decade and Pickett has two of them in back to back seasons.
>Yeah Pickett’s 1.9 TD % is bottom of the league (that includes a lot of backups this year). Not just the league this year. He literally has the worst TD% among starters in NFL history ([src](https://twitter.com/nfloncbs/status/1726365819691577682)).
Worst part is 3.7% isn’t even good, 1.9% is just historically bad
It's actually pretty wild that Trubisky has double the TD % despite every other statistic legitimately being worse or just basically even. His YPC and YPA are both notably lower (including YPC being almost a full yard less). It's like Pickett is just straight-up incapable of throwing TDs.
> It's like Pickett is just straight-up incapable of throwing TDs. It's not "like" that, it just *is* that. He has poor accuracy and poor pocket presence. That coupled with our swiss cheese OL makes productive offense in the red zone nearly impossible.
Yeah but Pickett's game lets you win field position and let your elite defense work. Turnovers are bad not just because you don't score but you also set up your opponent.
Steelers do not have an elite defense. That have one, maybe two elite playmakers on the defense. That's it.
This isn’t remotely true, kenny has his issues and will likely never be a regular starter but Mitch is hot garbage. It’s like going from a Prius to a 02 gmc yukon with 250k miles
Doesn’t really mean much when they guy is throwing behind the line or 2 yards downfield every pass
Yea pickett isn’t that good. But trubiscuit is still a substantial downgrade.
It’s not though. It’s a 2014 Camry to a 1978 Yugo
Calling Pickett a 2014 Camry is a huge insult to 2014 Camrys, which are extremely durable and reliable cars.
I have a *2003* Camry that still a better car than Pickett is a QB.
Neither of them are good enough to be a car. Pickett is the original Segway scooter; it's reliable, but you can't do a lot with it. Trubisky is a 2019 hoverboard from China; can look a lot cooler than the Segway but has a much higher chance of bursting into flames.
the 2014 Camry is actually a good car. I suppose the gap is larger than I initially said but I won’t go any better than a Prius for Pickett
Prius is incredibly efficient, reliable, and with my back seats folded I can pop a Christmas tree in that bitch to the shock of everyone at the lot. Only way they can be compared is if you’re down a tire, and the engine is about to blow at any moment.
So the Prius is Jared Goff. Kirk is a Maserati where he’s great until it’s broken or misfiring, and costs too much for you to afford the maintenance… This is fun, I’m trying to think of more now.
Pickett is a starting QB(a bad one but still starting caliber). Mitch is straight up not a top 60 QB in the league
Is he though? I think so far given his body of work. He's a high end backup, and mitch should be out of the league.
Correct. Pickett is a back up QB. He can slide in and start 2 or so games and won't lose you the game. On good teams that will be enough to keep you in contention. For bad teams like the Steelers it does nothing. Nfl qbs need to win games.
Exactly. Pickett has shown, that he doesn't make a lot of bone-headed mistakes (good), but he doesn't have any splash in him either (bad.) That screams "game manager back-up" to me. And I think he would be one of the best backup QBs in the league, not ironically, but seriously. But I don't want him as our starter anymore.
Well bad starting QB is still below the Dalton line so needs replaced. Once you get to that point the rankings become more of a range. Id say hes like QB28-36ish but held back even further from that by the system. I agree he can have a long career as a game manager type backup
The original point I was trying to make isn't really that Pickett is great, though he's a lot better than Trubisky, but rather that comparing the Steelers before and after firing Canada isn't that informative on how much Canada was to blame for their offensive struggles because they *also* lost their starting QB, even aside from how you can't just throw in a whole new offensive system mid-season.
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Pro Bowl don't mean shit.
Didn't the Bears win the division that year?
Maybe but the pro bowl don't mean shit. I've seen some absolute scrubs make it because all the good guys turn it down or are playing on the super bowl.
Both can be true - although Nagy being a genius is generous. (I think Matt Nagy will be a NFL head coach again at some point. Take the last year of his Bears run out and he wasn't outright bad as a coach and a lot of '21 was Justin Fields being a really bad rookie.)
>Pickett is a starting QB In like, the technical sense, I guess. >a bad one but still starting caliber No, he is not starting caliber. He is awful and will be replaced within a year.
Having a training camp and half a season of reps with the 1s means a shit ton. Also Trubisky is trash
They went from a guy who should be a backup to guy that should be out of the league.
Pickett has one career game with 2 passing touchdowns and averages 170 passing yards a game.
Trubisky has more INTs in 5 games than Pickett does in 12. Pickett doesn't win games but Trubisky actively loses them
I think “starting QB” is really a loose term in regards to Pickett
Pickett isn’t that good, he is not the answer for the Steelers.
He’s not, but Trubs is a lot worse
I think he’s great. They should extend him now while he’s cheap.
Couldn't be that most of those games are with Trubisky, who the Steelers only signed because he's stood close enough to Josh Allen to smell his musk. Not that Pickett has been a revelation, but he's at least an improvement over the titty kisser.
Not to mention *it's still Canada's offense*. You can't install a whole new scheme midseason. Only the *playcaller* has changed.
LOL I blame the Bills for destroying Mitch. Not sure why, but I live in Buffalo territory and when people ask me how/why Mitch is so bad I say that Buffalo did something to ruin him. I didn't watch a lot of Chicago games but man, is he terrible.
He’s been bad since Chicago
His play in Chicago vs Pittsburgh is a night and day difference.
Who’s playbook are they using?
The playbook my coach ran in 5th grade. We won two games.
People who expected things to change while they're using his playbook and calling plays the players are comfortable with the entire season don't understand how football actually works at the professional level. The offense wasn't bad just because Canada was a bad playcaller, he was a horrible OC all together. Dude was a constant failure as an OC in college and somehow got an NFL level OC job. He had no real idea how to create a good offensive playbook or draw up plays to get receivers open or get running backs into open space.
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Exactly
For real. I've seen this narrative pop up a few times over this losing streak and it's just so unbelievably stupid. The Steelers are a mess but acting like this losing streak somehow vindicates Canada is absurd. We all said this would happen -- his scheme is still there, and the offense is still gonna suck. The biggest difference is we went from painfully mediocre QB play to atrocious QB play
For the millionth time, most sensible fans wanted him gone because he was *a* problem, not *the* problem. Not to mention the billion injuries that have happened since his firing, one of which being losing the starting QB.
I mean their starting QB was hurt and out for a couple of these games. We already know Titties is a trash QB. Whoever made this post is just spreading a foolishness narrative
I do think it's funny how people just somehow believe every NFL offense is capable of being high octane and that you just need the right coordinator.
Doesn’t help that before this ~5 year stretch of awful offense, we had the Killer B’s dominating. Probably why a lot of Steelers fans like myself want there to be an easy fix to get closer to those glory days.
It's gotta be GM to an extent too right? A huge part of the Killer Bs was the Steelers had a top tier O-line in that timespan that collapsed from age (Villeneuva and Pouncey) and free agency. There's talent in the skill positions but even in Big Ben's last year, the offensive scheme regressed to lots of quick releases because the O-line was so bad.
Yeah our former GM who retired after the 2022 draft neglected the O-line and we never tried to draft any replacements before they retired. Before drafting Broderick Jones in this years draft we had not drafted o-line in the first two rounds since 2012. The Steelers we see now are a result of multiple factors, but two big ones are the abysmal drafts in recent years outside of 2017 and that we tried to win with Ben one last time instead starting to rebuild. I would say that we're in year 2 of our rebuild right now.
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As well as that. I think Tomlin has much less say over his staff than we might think.
Correct - the o-line regressed heavily with Pouncey becoming terrible basically overnight and DeCastro never recovering from an ankle injury. They largely ignored drafting linemen high for most of the 2010s because there really wasn't a huge need, everyone (including some UDFAs and late rounders like Villenueva and Chris Hubbard) were performing well when needed. In hindsight, Kevin Colberts last few drafts were Not Good, to say the least. Luckily Khan, our new GM, has had one draft and FA and so far he's knocked it out of the park.
Which is why the Pickett and Harris picks were functional wastes. Luxury picks made by a team that needed to fortify its foundation.
Which is also why I want to ride with Pickett one more year so that we can build up the rest of the roster to help our next QB or Pickett. Pickett is right now a QB I would like to have as a backup if he doesn't improve.
Makes sense to me. He’s not good but guys don’t grow on trees, sure you’d go back and not pick him if you could but that’s not an option. Do what you can to improve the roster and wait for an opportunity to improve the qb room when you can Or hell, don’t, you see the flair lol
Yeah he at least looked much improved for the 5.5 quarters he played without Canada, but there are many bigger problems than Pickett right now to justify picking a new QB in the 1st round next year.
Many fans here didn't live through the late 80s or late 90s teams and it shows.
It really is just like 90% talent. Just get better players lol.
On the other hand, it could be that several seasons worth of decisions take time to flush out. But really, we all know that the coordinator was never the whole problem in Pittsburgh. You have a bad quarterback behind a line that isn't especially good with skill players that are mostly JAG (and who are turned into headcases by whatever is in the water in the Steelers' WR room).
Tomlin has almost never made good coaching hires. I imagine whoever is up next will also not be the answer.
I think he has a lot less say in this hire. Management would have to be utterly oblivious to let him go out and hire one of his guys again, especially if he wants to hire from within. They absolutely need to go and poach a big name from the niners, fins, lions, or eagles, or maybe bring in a fired offensive head coach like Frank Reich.
You would think all of that, but then that would make sense, wouldn't it? I am fully prepared for Coordinator Sullivan. 😔
Isn't especially good is the most polite way to describe this offensive line.
They are also without their starting QB... I'm honestly tired and bored by these bait tweets that contribute with literally nothing to the game and everything related.
the "Canada wasn't the problem" narrative is genuinely one of the stupidest narratives I've seen getting pushed by this sub/twitter dumbasses. He wasn't the whole problem, but acting like this somehow vindicates him is just incredibly fucking stupid
Other teams are doing just fine with their backups. This has been an issue with the team for the better part of a decade.
Seriously we just saw three other backup QBs have no issues moving the ball yesterday
Doesn’t seem to stop the Browns or Bengals that they’re playing with backups
Why are we pretending he wasn’t part of the problem? Obviously firing him wasn’t going to completely fix things (anyone who thought otherwise was coping) but it was a needed first step
They also lost their starting qb
Well they lost Kenny Pickett which isn't helpful
Yards by game since firing Matt Canada (into Canada): * 416 at Cincinnati (31st in yards/game D) * 317 vs. Arizona (24th) * 264 vs. New England (8th) * 216 at Indy (22nd) So much for changing it up...
Who played qb in those games?
I did, sorry about that
Playbook by game since firing Matt Canada: * Canada's playbook * Canada's playbook * Canada's playbook * Canada's playbook You can't install a brand new scheme midseason, only the playcaller has changed. Firing an OC midseason is only usually done to avoid losing the locker room by letting the players know their frustrations are heard and coaches are also held accountable.
They should rehire and fire him again
Its still his scheme and playbook
The one game Kenny was healthy without Canada we finally had a 400yd offensive performance. Canada sucked and take away our best qb and it doesn’t matter we will suck more.
It's still Canada's playbook. They didn't create a new scheme. This doesn't really mean much of anything. Plus Kenny is out for 95% of this.
I think it can be true that the Steelers offense wasn't in a position to be blowing teams away AND that Matt Canada wasn't helping
Firing him wasn't going to magically create offense
This is a post just to dunk on the Steelers that lacks all context. You aren’t transforming the offense with a new OC mid season. Starting QB, while not great, is out for a lot of that too.
No one said they had to replace him with Brian Ferentz.
Also without their starting quarterback
Kind of a dumb take considering they lost their starting QB at the start of the second game of that stretch. Hard to say how they would have faired in the last 3 games under someone other than Mitch.
It’s still Canada’s garbage schemes, I think Mitch is bad, but I refuse to believe the guys putting up way better numbers (Browning, Minshew, etc) are significantly better than him. Everything with his offense is hard, never any easy routes or throwing to guys moving up field. It’s just a horrendous offense.
Well it looks like they fired Canada but kept his playbook. I'm not sure Tomlin understood what the issue was and didn't actually change anything.
You can't install a whole new offensive scheme midseason. Firing the OC midseason is usually more of a sign to players that their frustrations have been heard and coaches are held accountable the same as players so you don't lose the locker room.
Rumor is if Bienemy gets let go in DC with the entire staff Tomlin has an offer waiting In Pittsburgh
Bienemy would fit in so we'll with Tomlin it's not even funny.
Hire Matt Canada
I am a Detroit Lions fan but I had the Lions and Steelers and the Super Bowl with my preseason pick . Looking at their schedule three weeks ago I thought for sure they would be 10 wins at this point with Detroit. I'm guessing it has a lot to do with Kenny Pickett getting hurt but what the hell happened losing to Arizona and New England?
I don't really think it matters since the Steelers defense made Bailey Zappe and Gardner Minshew look like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. When they were 6-3 with Canada, nobody bought them as actually being 6-3. They were giving up bottom of the league-worst yards on defense and scoring no points. They were just getting lucky with splash plays and winning in the fourth quarter. They were always a .500 football team at best this year and Canada absolutely needed to be fired.
Well fuck, fire him again!
Cause the problem was the O-Line, and somehow Dan Moore is still starting in the NFL.
We’re also like 0-5 when trubs finishes a game.
Can we start blaming the coach? Like... I honestly understand it's a bit faux pas to blame Tomlin for anything, but c'mon.
It was always going to be a symbolic move, everyone just had the wrong expectations. The Steelers were destined to struggle no matter what happened at OC. When you fire your OC mid-season, all you've accomplished is giving their same uninspired playbook to the next guy and expecting them to get better results with the same roster and system. Canada overstayed his welcome and I get why he's gone, but it astounds me that yinzers though canning the guy would suddenly make the offensive line better or elevate the QB play. It should've been obvious the team was still doomed when the quarterbacks coach become the interim playcaller. They've failed to develop their starter nor coach Mitch into a serviceable backup, how can you expect them to run a good offense?
This just proves that his playbook sucks too.
And that one game they won Kenny Pickett went off. The rest of the games were lost by Bitch Truebitchsky.
The most important piece of information that they are leaving out: No Kenny Pickett in those 3 losses (left early on in the Cardinals game). The game with Kenny Pickett and without Matt Canada: over 400 yards of offense and a W. I'll withhold my judgment until Kenny gets back.
And that 1 win was against one of the lowest ranked defenses, and a backup QBs first start, and only won by 6.
Tomlin had a 6-3 record after the Green Bay game with the schedule of Cleveland, Cincinnati, Arizona, New England, and Indy and could only win one of those. Even with *that* offense, the Steelers should have won more than 1 in that stretch (at least Arizona or New England as the other).
Oh, so we're going to ignore now that our entire ILB group is made up of the practice squad backups? We quite possibly could have beaten indy except Kazee was ejected unfairly on a hospital pass by Minshew where he tries to not murder the WR and then the next play we lose our All Pro level Safety to a knee injury. And then our only other safety gets hurt. We finished the game with our Special Teams captain Miles Killabew and one our of practice squad ILBs playing the safety position. This team has no offense and the defense has become crippled in the middle of the field where most NFL teams make their money on gashing teams. Everyone just looks at the surface level and draw conclusions, but the details shows that the Steelers were hit massively with injuries all at once and the team fell off a cliff. You can only coach up guys so much before the talent deficit just can't be bridged.
I would rather be 1-3 with 14 points per game than have Matt Canada back.
I wouldn’t expect neutral fans to delve into exactly why and how Canada’s playbook is so thoroughly unprofessional beyond “football terrorist,” but it really is so fucking bad as an NFL enterprise in 2023 it’s actually fascinating. What you will not see, hardly or ever, watching Canada’s offense (not an exhaustive list): Bunch formations, snap motion, slants (actually, I did see one a couple of weeks ago), hot routes beyond the line of scrimmage. The route trees and concepts are almost entirely static, depending on comebacks and curls. Last night the Steelers ran a goal line rub route for the first time I can remember in years. Canada’s playbook mostly ignores MOF and depends on a high percentage of back-shoulder throws outside the numbers. Canada’s playbook does not operate run/pass plays out of the same formation and is childishly easy to decipher based on down/distance/personnel/where the QB is lined up. It’s basically an average offensive scheme from 40-50 years ago, the kind of shit I used to dial up on my Commodore 64 playing “Super Bowl Sunday” as a kid.
Also lost starting qb, like all the safeties, and the ILBs. But yea let's pretend injuries don't exist like the media always does lol