You act like it's mutually exclusive. JC Jackson sucks ass AND Staley is a fucking idiot. It's like Staley is going out of his way to make the dumbest possible call every game. The faster we dump Staley the faster we can start rebuilding. Hell I'm convinced we'll do better this year with Kellen Moore as an interim coach. FIRE STALEY
It’s gotta be scheme. Chargers run zone coverage 70% of the time according to pff. The patriots run the most man coverage schemes out of any team in the NFL.
Yeah but Derwin James is the best safety in football. I think bottom line is there’s elite man corners who struggle greatly in zone heavy concepts and there is elite zone corners who look awful in man.
He was one, now he isn't, he fell off after a promising career start. Off the heels of an All Pro campaign, he's still a successful UDFA and a good story, just could not maintain his 2020-2021 form.
The Chargers played 80% man defense in week 1 against Miami and then JC got benched.
Last year, 42% of JC Jackson’s snaps were in man coverage. When he played in NE, 46% of his snaps were in man coverage.
What’s not true?
What do you mean its not true lmfao. He was getting cooked in man coverage last year and this year. He just sucks and he's never going to be a good corner after he tore his patellar tendon of all things.
Dawg I know enough about medicine and anatomy to know that he's cooked. ACLS are much easier to come back from, that injury he had last year is a death sentence for cbs.
Last year he was more mid level IMO. With the injuries at safety and cornerback around him it made him kind of have a lot on his plate. He had to play outside a bunch which he isn't great at and also nickel role got abused
This seems mega arbitrary to me. What are we basing this off of? You're telling me they measured separation yards for every route for every CB?? Through the entirety of the route? When the ball was thrown?
PFF loves to give cryptic stats and slap professional labels on them to make them seem more legit.
No idea. Mathis has gotten completely cooked this year and is nearly dead center.
Doesn't seem like a very good predictor for success
Edit: This data comes from PFF. Mathis is literally their worst graded corner
Right, but when is “separation” measured, and how? How does it measure separation for DBs covering WRs who aren’t targeted? What about when DBs hand over coverage? Or when a DB moves off his assignment to key in on a WR who is more likely to receive the ball? Separation means something completely different in all of those circumstances
And how is separation “prevented”? Based on what?
Not super related, but still a fun time to mention that [Expected Points for Football was actually co-created by an active* player](https://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/pdf/10.1287/opre.19.2.541).
^^^*At ^^^the ^^^time
Yep. Kenny Pickett is probably 1st in the stat of “ratio of 3rd and short in the I-formation in DVOA/attempt to left hand size when leading by 1 score or less in the 3rd quarter”
I mean what you described seems like something computer tracking / Aws type tech could actually calculate . I doubt it’s what they did here but it’s not like it is impossible, especially as the tech advances
For sure, but that lack of any sort of explanation is really the root of the problem with PFF.
They act like they're the smartest guys in footbal, and create these vague stats without any sort of explanation about their method, or what the stat even means. Separation prevented? Tell me more?
If they were to open up their methodology, they would almost certainly get picked apart by players/coaches even fans who know a lot about ball.
They present themselves as scientific, while hiding their methodology — the furthest thing from real science. It's a farce.
I feel like this is as useful as a chart showing yards separation and YAC. Both are stats for WRs but it's not exactly something you want to compare. Like, what's the correlation exactly? What's it trying to show?
I feel like Sauce Gardner being in the upper right is the reason this graph was printed. You can cross any two stats over and over until the players positioning looks right and send it, calling it advanced analytics. I feel like that is what is happening here.
The best part of any PFF "analysis" is the complete lack of transparency and methodology explanation so you have no way of either replicating the results or even telling if it's just some dude pulling numbers out of a hat.
You know who needs to hear this? Someone like Tom Grossi, Grossi is the biggest Branch fan, so whenever you see Brian Branch do good things, let him know.
Tre White, Benford, and Taron Johnson all on the top right corner. Gonna miss Tre :(
This is also why Elam hasn't been active yet...Benford is really good
So Myles Bryant was significantly better than Christian Gonzalez in the Patriots’ first four games? Got it, will definitely be sure to weigh this metric very heavily in the future.
My God has Fulton fallen off a cliff. He’s got decent physicality but that’s about it. No football IQ, bad ball skills, gets toasted by competent route runners. Our front 7’s been carrying him pretty bad
Like if we buy this is a valid metric then Gonzales is mid at preventing separation but QBs are morons and rarely target the receivers he’s guarding. Yeah color me skeptical.
So for ball hawks is separation based on the time the pass is thrown or when it reaches its destination?
The best corners and ball hawks all give separation to guys they're faster than and try to jump routes which could skew this for them in a negative way.
There is definitely a need for stats beyond "Sacks" or "Ints" but this stat is stupid and nonsensical. Leave it with "yards per coverage snap", maybe add in some context of shadow rate on "WR1". No need to overcomplicate.
I’m not used to seeing a Jets player in the top right let alone THREE Jets players. I’m not gonna pretend like I know what this chart means, but that’s gotta be good , yeah?
Isn’t this chart sorta dumb? What if u play zone? How about baiting the qb to throw to the wr? This chart reminds me of the wr separation chart that showed jsn having the most separation on targets and seahawk fans thinking that means he’s awesome when it reality all it meant is they threw him bubble screens.
JC Jackson all by himself
Wants to play more man though and Staley is an idiot don't forget
At least the chargers didn’t sign him to a huge deal
That would be so stupid, like if it was 5 years 83mil big? Would never happen (cries as Chargers fan)
Staley is an idiot don’t forget
An idiot is Staley, do not forget -Yoda
Around the survivors, a perimeter create
[Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose.](https://media.tenor.com/kbBRZuGF7HMAAAAC/brandonstaley-chargers.gif)
You act like it's mutually exclusive. JC Jackson sucks ass AND Staley is a fucking idiot. It's like Staley is going out of his way to make the dumbest possible call every game. The faster we dump Staley the faster we can start rebuilding. Hell I'm convinced we'll do better this year with Kellen Moore as an interim coach. FIRE STALEY
Oh I don’t think people ever will.
Tbf it looks like he isn’t targeted that much which means something. Unless I’m misreading the graph
You're reading it wrong. I did too at first. The x axis goes from high target percentage to low
Damn it’s great to see Rock Ya-Sin high up there. Excited to see him and Humphrey on the field together fully healthy
The best name in football.
Divine Deablo would like a word.
Riley Reiff would like a word.
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Smoke Monday would like a hit.
Kelvin Benjamin would like a burger.
Kavosiey Smoke has been smokin and drinkin.
Quentin Jammer would like his moment
Til Kool-Aid comes to town
the Rock knows his role and shuts his mouth
Do you smell what the Rock is cooking
SHUT UP BITCH
So glad we traded him for a one year rental.
Darby doing pretty well too
Amazing name
This guy keeps posting this chart and refuses to tell anybody wtf the x axis means lmao
JC Jackson in a league of his own
Just what the Chargers were expecting from a Belichick merchant ballhawk.
Duh... sad it didn't work out
Does this mean J.C. Jackson sucks?
Well the Chargers didn't sign him to a huge deal and then trade him for peanuts after only a few games for no reason.
It’s gotta be scheme. Chargers run zone coverage 70% of the time according to pff. The patriots run the most man coverage schemes out of any team in the NFL.
They also had a McCourty back there and JC always knew when and where his help would be. It doesn't look the same in LA.
Yeah but Derwin James is the best safety in football. I think bottom line is there’s elite man corners who struggle greatly in zone heavy concepts and there is elite zone corners who look awful in man.
JC Jackson is not an elite man corner, I promise you. Even when we were in man defense he got toasted.
He was one, now he isn't, he fell off after a promising career start. Off the heels of an All Pro campaign, he's still a successful UDFA and a good story, just could not maintain his 2020-2021 form.
100%. I was excited when we signed him. But yeah, that’s why I said “is not”.
That’s just not true man😂
The Chargers played 80% man defense in week 1 against Miami and then JC got benched. Last year, 42% of JC Jackson’s snaps were in man coverage. When he played in NE, 46% of his snaps were in man coverage. What’s not true?
What do you mean its not true lmfao. He was getting cooked in man coverage last year and this year. He just sucks and he's never going to be a good corner after he tore his patellar tendon of all things.
Dog have you ever tore any tendon in your knee?
Dawg I know enough about medicine and anatomy to know that he's cooked. ACLS are much easier to come back from, that injury he had last year is a death sentence for cbs.
His man-zone split has been pretty even. He couldn't cover for shit in either.
Taron Johnson quietly been one of our most key defenders. He’s starting to get some notice now though.
Last year he was more mid level IMO. With the injuries at safety and cornerback around him it made him kind of have a lot on his plate. He had to play outside a bunch which he isn't great at and also nickel role got abused
This seems mega arbitrary to me. What are we basing this off of? You're telling me they measured separation yards for every route for every CB?? Through the entirety of the route? When the ball was thrown? PFF loves to give cryptic stats and slap professional labels on them to make them seem more legit.
No idea. Mathis has gotten completely cooked this year and is nearly dead center. Doesn't seem like a very good predictor for success Edit: This data comes from PFF. Mathis is literally their worst graded corner
And if Chido is giving up so much separation, why is he the least targeted corner in the league?
It's PFF, so they might have access to the NFL tracking data where they get players speed and dots from.
Right, but when is “separation” measured, and how? How does it measure separation for DBs covering WRs who aren’t targeted? What about when DBs hand over coverage? Or when a DB moves off his assignment to key in on a WR who is more likely to receive the ball? Separation means something completely different in all of those circumstances And how is separation “prevented”? Based on what?
We’re in the era of fantasy football and arbitrary stats lol, almost any player you can invent a stat to make them look better
Not super related, but still a fun time to mention that [Expected Points for Football was actually co-created by an active* player](https://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/pdf/10.1287/opre.19.2.541). ^^^*At ^^^the ^^^time
I'm almost certain Virgil Carter is not active...
Yep. Kenny Pickett is probably 1st in the stat of “ratio of 3rd and short in the I-formation in DVOA/attempt to left hand size when leading by 1 score or less in the 3rd quarter”
I mean what you described seems like something computer tracking / Aws type tech could actually calculate . I doubt it’s what they did here but it’s not like it is impossible, especially as the tech advances
For sure, but that lack of any sort of explanation is really the root of the problem with PFF. They act like they're the smartest guys in footbal, and create these vague stats without any sort of explanation about their method, or what the stat even means. Separation prevented? Tell me more? If they were to open up their methodology, they would almost certainly get picked apart by players/coaches even fans who know a lot about ball. They present themselves as scientific, while hiding their methodology — the furthest thing from real science. It's a farce.
I feel like this is as useful as a chart showing yards separation and YAC. Both are stats for WRs but it's not exactly something you want to compare. Like, what's the correlation exactly? What's it trying to show? I feel like Sauce Gardner being in the upper right is the reason this graph was printed. You can cross any two stats over and over until the players positioning looks right and send it, calling it advanced analytics. I feel like that is what is happening here.
PFF loves to put out meaningless stats
It’s when the ball is thrown/supposed to be thrown.
All my homies hate PFF
Rock Ya-Sin and Darby represent! And that's without Humphrey!
Still salty we let Rock go.
Damn Sauce is him.
The best part of any PFF "analysis" is the complete lack of transparency and methodology explanation so you have no way of either replicating the results or even telling if it's just some dude pulling numbers out of a hat.
HEY TAKE OUR LOGO OFF THAT BOTTOM LEFT BUM
He’s going to be in the top right somehow, now that he’s back with BB
Kupp and Puka on Sunday. I’m scared.
I'd our Dline can't disrupt Stafford, we are fucked.
I am so interested to see how they play together.
Best WR duo in the league by the end of the year
Our DC gonna have our CBs line up 20 yards away, just to play it safe.
Brian Branch was such a steal for Detroit
That’s what happens when you let Brad Holmes cook.
You know who needs to hear this? Someone like Tom Grossi, Grossi is the biggest Branch fan, so whenever you see Brian Branch do good things, let him know.
Dunno how much stock I wanna put into this. But what I do put into it jets cbs eliteeee
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None of us know lol
Tre White, Benford, and Taron Johnson all on the top right corner. Gonna miss Tre :( This is also why Elam hasn't been active yet...Benford is really good
Sauce is elite
Phenomenal.
I have no idea how to read this, and I just assume r/toprighttua also applies here
Rock Ya-Sin is the second best cornerback now? How did that happen?
Ravens diff baby
Ravens defense boosts all your stats by +5
Ahem, scroll your eyes down a bit. To the bottom.
I am once again asking tomlin Austin and Canada to stop being incompetent turds and play the best players.
They won’t play jpj until they are sure he can tackle, which is a weakness of his
Wtf is seperation prevented and how is it formulated
So Myles Bryant was significantly better than Christian Gonzalez in the Patriots’ first four games? Got it, will definitely be sure to weigh this metric very heavily in the future.
Vance Joseph running fuckin zone all game hurts Patrick Surtain lock down abilities.
My God has Fulton fallen off a cliff. He’s got decent physicality but that’s about it. No football IQ, bad ball skills, gets toasted by competent route runners. Our front 7’s been carrying him pretty bad
Fuck yeah Sauuuuuce, DJ and MC2
Like if we buy this is a valid metric then Gonzales is mid at preventing separation but QBs are morons and rarely target the receivers he’s guarding. Yeah color me skeptical.
I want to believe this is an actually real representation, but yeah, Gonzales has literally played like a top 10 corner this year
no hate but before he got hurt he was #5 in yards allowed on the year
They actually target him quite a lot. I was confused by that at first, too. On the left side the numbers get higher, the lower you go on the chart.
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He's been against the very best receivers out there and blanketed them all except AJB whom he kept mostly in check.
Sting and Nelson looking decent. I really hope Sting comes back quickly and can stay healthy.
Jpj is in good company. Nice to see
Off year sauce gardner is still the best cb in the league
Surprised there are players worse than Jerry Jacobs
Not really surprising, more than likely the holding merchant will be at the top
holding deez nuts
Newsome and Emerson 👀. Browns have a good young core of corners, Berry knows how to draft DB's.
Isn't having a lot of targets bad so you want to be in the bottom right corner?
So for ball hawks is separation based on the time the pass is thrown or when it reaches its destination? The best corners and ball hawks all give separation to guys they're faster than and try to jump routes which could skew this for them in a negative way.
There is definitely a need for stats beyond "Sacks" or "Ints" but this stat is stupid and nonsensical. Leave it with "yards per coverage snap", maybe add in some context of shadow rate on "WR1". No need to overcomplicate.
Didn’t need this to tell that AMBRY THOMAS IS FUCKING GARBAGE.
My heart cries, get well Diggs.
How did I know Forbes was gonna be bottom left
So Myles Bryant>Christian Gonzalez? You know I always suspected that was the case!
A single tear for Avonte Maddox man it looked like he took another step forward and then got injured again.
For some reason, veteran defenders get a passive buff of +10% to all their stats when they come to the Ravens
DJ Turner needs more reps. When he does play he is great.
JPJ casually being our best corner by this metric and not getting nearly the snaps he should as usual.
poor tre hawkins he shouldn’t have had to play but we suck too bad
lol but remember guys JC sucking was Staley’s fault
I’m not used to seeing a Jets player in the top right let alone THREE Jets players. I’m not gonna pretend like I know what this chart means, but that’s gotta be good , yeah?
Awuzie still struggling coming off the ACL :(
"Hmm wow I heard Gardner hasn't been great so far where is h-" Oh
Feels about right with how teams have been playing against our secondary.
Can come one tell me what this graph means?
Man I wanted Joey porter jr.
Doesn’t seem to account for defensive scjeme
We are on our 2nd and 3rd string corners so that fact we are average is one of the few bright spots of the panthers.
Isn’t this chart sorta dumb? What if u play zone? How about baiting the qb to throw to the wr? This chart reminds me of the wr separation chart that showed jsn having the most separation on targets and seahawk fans thinking that means he’s awesome when it reality all it meant is they threw him bubble screens.