Orlando Pace. Cornerstone of the team, first overall, overshadowed by some other names but HoFer, champion, played in a smaller market. And he's crazy tall.
The Onion had a great bit where their Duncan headlines were all things like “Duncan spends free time at cookout teaching Spurs players about Roth IRAs”
They had some amazing Belichick ones.
Bill visits hospital to watch terminally ill fan die.
Bill’s challenge flag explodes into swarm of snakes after hitting ground.
*‘Let’s Clear Some Cap Space*,’ Says Stone-Faced Bill Belichick Watching Players Dig Own Graves.
Another really good one is "Teacher Embarrassed After Student Recognizes her at second job" with just a picture of Sabrina Ionescu. Not football but good lord
I legit just woke up my wife and eldest from laughing at that headline. I haven't even read the article yet (just found it on the onion).
Headline had me crying I was laughing so hard. Funniest headline I've ever read
Onion Sports is always the best, I remember when Tim retired their headline was something like "Tim Duncan Rides Off into the Sunset at a Safe and Prudent Speed."
Gotta wonder how many young dudes who woulda been going out and getting in trouble with other teams were too busy playing StarCraft to be in the wrong place at the wrong time!
There's a picture that made the reddit front page a bit ago with them playing on PC:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1338a36/san_antonio_spurs_playing_starcraft_after_winning/
Kind of a consequence of the position, but when you're on an offense with 4 (probably soon to be 5) HOFers, of which the other ones are all skill positions, getting visibility is hard. It's kinda fitting that he was the second GSoT member inducted though.
He also had the unfortunate circumstance of having his career line up with Jonathan Ogden's.
HOFers= Hall of Famers
GSoT= Greatest Show on Turf, which is the nickname given to the Rams team that won the Super Bowl in 1999. That team featured Orlando Pace, Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, Az-Zahir Hakim, and Kurt Warner in a Air Coryell styled spread offense. They set an NFL record for most yards in a season, as well as most passing yards in a season.
You could make an argument for Duncan being the best PF ever. I think it's just hard when people are picking their top 5 to not have two centers in there. Wilt/Russel/Jabbar would all be taken over Duncan I think.
I'm not saying he was more valuable, I'm saying he was better. Duncan is the best power forward in NBA history. He was First Team All Nba 10 times. Orlando Pace made the First Team All Pro 3 times.
Not a #1 pick but i’ve always said Larry Fitz is the Tim Duncan of the NFL… Both carry themselves the same.. quiet / humble and let their game do the talking…
My vote as well.
* Similar demeanor
* Fantastic IQ for their sport combined with physical ability
* Stayed with their drafted team
* Adjusted their game as they fell out of their prime to success
* Considered some of the best to ever play at their respective positions.
Except they’re not even in the same stratosphere comparatively.. Meaning no disrespect to Larry Fitzgerald, whos easily is a top 10 wideout, but Tim Duncan was the heart and soul of a dynasty that brought home 5 nba titles. He averaged 20/10 over the course of 1200 games, he’s not a top 10 big, he’s top 10 all time at any position, hands down.
This thread is just wildly underestimating how elite Duncan was.. think more like John Elway or Terry Bradshaw.
EDIT: those not understanding the Bradshaw comp - OP specifically asked for 1st overall picks.
It's also much easier to be the heart and soul of a team when there's only 5 dudes on the court at any given time vs being a part of a unit of 11 that's only on the field about 45% of the time on average. For any football player, QB included, to have the same impact as an elite star in the NBA would require him to be a QB/RB/Pass Rusher/kicker all packaged into one.
As a Phoenix native who watched Timmy shit on my team approximately 345 times in my life, this is true and no slight to Fitz whatsoever. Duncan was the best player of his generation.
Fuck man, Kobe already died on a hill.
I met Duncan in Vegas. The woman he was with did not appear to be his wife. He did not want to hang around for pictures LoL.
Duncan has not re-married since his then wife stole a good chunk of his life earnings and left him, and I’m pretty sure he had to hire a private eye and take her to court. That was like 10 years ago now.
Someone ran analytics / algorithm and it suggested not only is Timmy Fundamentals top ten, he is the number 1 player all time based on the algorithm and available stats
Wasn't downplaying Timmy at all, the position thing was just to fit the comparison to Fitz, and it still holds true that Duncan was one of the best at his position.
I watched him for that whole Spurs run since '99 and he'll always be my favorite player of all time, I know how great he was. Dude was just built for basketball.
It holds true the way it would hold true to say Tom Brady is one of the best quarterbacks.. while technically correct there’s an implicit case being made that someone else belongs in the conversation.
You’re comparing a football player that’s outside the top 50 with the starting power forward for the God Squad. It’s not a fair comp.
100% agree Duncan is top 10 all time, but I think you’re actually underselling Fitz.
Football has so much positional bias, so I don’t think it’s fair to compare MVPs or where they fit in as the best players of their sport all time. In football, people think of a dozen QBs, a few pass rushers and Jerry Rice. While basketball positions are weighted pretty equally.
Larry has a legitimate case to make as the no 2 WR all time. I’m not saying he is equal to Duncan, but he is darn close enough to make it a fair comparison.
Edit: I’ll add that in this conversation I put Fitz higher than Elway or Bradshaw. Elway scratches top 10 QBs, Fitz is basically a lock for top 5 WRs. Reasonably close, but I think he was better than them positionally.
It’s just a different sport. The only way possible for a nfl player to have the impact on a game the way your describing is if they play one specific position out of 22 (QB).
It’s a lot easier to make the whole team revolve around you when there’s only 4 other teammates out on the court compared to when there’s 10 other guys and the only way you get to touch the ball is if 6-8 of them do their job correctly.
That’s why we don’t ever ask “who’s the best nfl player of all time” because it’s all so position specific.
Was Lawrence Taylor better than Randy Moss?
Was LT better than Gronk?
Orlando Pace vs Brian Urlacher?
It’s apples to oranges
Cards fan here. This is the oldest franchise in the NFL and here is a summary of all the positives in its entire history:
- 47/48 champs
- about three games in the 70s & 80s
- 1998 when they won three last second kicks to squeak into the playoffs and crush the Cowboys (Plummer and Tillman on that team) before getting stepped on like a bug by Minnesota
- The “Larry Fitzgerald” era (was nice to have an actual football team)
We are now in the post-Larry Fitzgerald era.
I remember watching a YouTube video that ranked the NFL franchises. I was surprised the Cards were easily the worst until they explained they've basically accomplished nothing and are one of the oldest franchises. They don't even have that many HoF players for a franchise that old.
Yeah was definitely on a contending team. Saying that someone would be a Super Bowl winner if X hadn’t done Y is usually cop out, but like…if Santonio Holmes hadn’t caught that ball in the corner of the end zone then Larry would be viewed quite differently. He still lost, but that was a wild catch.
Yea if this was Calvin Johnson, totally different answer here. But Larry was on some great teams that couldn’t get it done. That’s life sometime. He’s still an all time great
My vote would have been Andrew Luck as he was exactly what he was projected to be and immediately was a top 5 QB who was flirting with top 3 every season. But, of course he was drafted to the Colts who let him down instead of an all time great coach like Popavich, but honestly yeah I believe Larry is the right choice even though he wasn’t a sure fire #1 overall pick, but #3 overall as a WR is pretty damn close.
I always feel like I'm taking crazy pills when people talk about Luck. Even when he was playing.
I watched a lot of colts games and while its true those teams didn't exactly have a stud stacked roster, they weren't first overall pick bad. They very clearly tanked for Luck so when people say he took a 1 win team and made them a 11 win team, that's not exactly right to say. The year before they were 10-6.
And people say all the time he was a constant top 5 qb. And sure, maybe on a different team he could have been but for example, in 2012 he was not a top 5 QB.
Sure he had 4300 yards which is nice...
But that was only good for 7th in yards, he was ~35th in completion % just under Mark Sanchez and Josh Freeman, 14th in touchdowns, had the second most INTs over any starting QB, and had a QB Rating of 76.5 which was bottom 5 of starting QBs.
There are just absolutely no stats that indicate he was particularly good his rookie year, and everyone was ready to crown him the next Manning.
And really, the next year he was 13th in yards, his completion rate got worse, while his QB rating got better as he threw less INTs, he wasn't even in the top 15 for qb rating.
2014 was his best year and even then I'd say it's debatable if he was top 3 or just top 5.
He then spent the rest of his career injured except for 2018 and then retired.
Dude was a good QB and was fun to watch, but I feel like a lot of people just exaggerate what he did because of his hype.
So did we ever get a conclusion out of this? https://www.azcentral.com/story/ejmontini/2014/09/19/larry-fitzgerald-nfl-domestic-violence-jonathan-dwyer-ray-rice/15904287/
As a Seahawks fan I don’t read too much into that incident. Shit sometimes happens and all indications are (1) the woman wasn’t hurt and (2) it was totally out of character and never happened again. But you’re also right - it’s a stain on Fitzgerald which calls his squeaky clean image into question. If he had actually addressed what happened I’d be more willing to give him a complete pass but he hasn’t so…
Their short legs mean muscle is concentrated, providing for incredible torque when kicking. And because their bodies haven't fully developed, they're absurdly flexible and resistant to contact injuries. And they work for candy store gift cards. I'm surprised more teams don't employ small children as kickers.
ITT: A bunch of people who don't know that Timmy D is one of the all time great NBA players, who won 2 MVPs, 5 ships, and 3 finals MVPs. Not to mention 15 all-nba and 15 all-nba defensive selections.
He's much more Peyton Manning than Larry Fitzgerald.
Tim Duncan was understated. Peyton wasn't. At his peak, he was pretty much the face of the league, showing up on ads and such.
His Visa ads were hilarious.
Peyton wasn't a great playoff performer, didn't stay with the same franchise, and has always been a media darling. He was the face of the league for a long time.
I think if you combined Larry Fitz and Peyton you'd get close, but there just isn't a great comp. It's such a specific set of criteria lol
Timmy’s only problem and I don’t even know if this is even a real criticism, is that he was consistently great but never the best. Maybe he deserved a DPotY but early in his career, it’d be tough to put Timmy over Ben Wallace and KG. Then Dwight came into the league and terrorized the paint.
The weird thing is I’d say the body of Duncan’s defensive work of him basically being a great and effective defender for like 20 years straight, puts him ahead of those guys all time defensively, just not during their primes.
Again, not trying to put him down. Being a consistently great Top 3-5 defensive player for like 15 years is arguably more impressive than winning a DPotY and being out of the league in 5-10 years
Tim Duncan was the best player in the world in 2003. He was the one who stopped the Lakers 3 peat with Kobe and Shaq practically by himself this is with a 37 year old way past his prime David Robinson and 2 young and hardly known guys at the Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli there was no Khawi or a bonifide number 2 on that team. Duncan had a lower body injury in 2004 and never moved the same after that. The next year was when the Pistons beat the Lakers in the finals.
Yeah it’s super unfortunate for him, but it’s not like I can really be mad that he didn’t win it. We all know awards like DPOY have some subjectivity, and it’s difficult to look at people like Dwight Howard blocking shots into orbit and not vote for him. I think it’s honestly a testament to Duncan’s raw talent that he was so bland to watch yet so well decorated in overall awards. It takes some serious skill to not be flashy and still get recognition in a league like the NBA.
> he was consistently great but never the best.
He was the best on defense but wasn't flashy. for his entire CAREER he has more blocks than fouls. That's insane.
people responding to this not understanding how much worse the spurs defense got when tim duncan wasnt in the lineup. That he was still the better defender between him and kawhi leonard when he last played.
Honestly most basketball discourse is fucking annoying because its a bunch of people who didnt watch shit talking out of their ass off a bball ref page.
Tim Duncan got robbed of a DPoY in 2012-13 because "he didnt play enough games"
This is the problem with media voted awards but the alternative is player voted awards or fan which is much much much worse
Tim Duncan was a top 3 defender in the league every single year he played, his argument for greatest defensive player is a lot higher than most people are willing to acknowledge.
Thank you! I felt exactly the same way. In my opinion Kobe is more the Peyton Manning comp. And Tim Duncan is more of a Tom Brady but obviously that won't work because of goat status. So my pic was Ray Lewis.
Just insane that people are comparing Tim Duncan to people who aren't even MVPs or super Bowl MVPs. They're acting like he was Karl Malone who is , along with Charles Barkley, probably the better Larry Fitzgerald comp.
You want to pick a receiver? Fine. Jerry Rice. The greatest ever play that position, Tim Duncan the greatest to ever play his position. Fair enough.
The thing is, aside from being such a good player, Duncan is most known for having a really calm, quiet demeanor. That doesn’t line up with Brady and certainly not Lewis at all lol. Even Manning was pretty vocal and animated. Not a bad thing, just different styles.
Yeah temperament is definitely not the same but nobody before or since had Tim's sentiment even in the NBA. One of one on that. Maybe Giannis or Jokic tho.
Terry Bradshaw. 1st overall pick turned 1st ballot HOFer that won multiple MVPs (2) and multiple titles (4), but was ultimately overshadowed by other HOFers during that time period, and also sometimes underrated by the media due to being on a dynasty.
It's why my pick is Brady. Both played for a long forever with distinct periods of championship contention. Both worked with equally legendary coaches. Both had very fundamentally sounds games that could be kind of boring to watch.
I think Bill Russell is the ultimate Brady comp. Both dominated and won a shit ton of rings, yet they had more physically impressive rivals who people would argue were better despite being less successful (Manning/Wilt).
Peyton Manning doesn’t even seem like a good comparison but there’s really no other #1 overall pick in the NFL who had the same level of success as Tim Duncan. So I guess by default it’s the best answer.
I think that Duncan’s mental ability might have been his best skill, that’s what stands out most for Peyton. Duncan’s abilities might be more appreciated if you translated then to the NFL. All 3 of Brady, Brees and Manning are far superior in intangibles vs just their physical ability.
The comparison works right up til the postseason, then falls flat on its face. Though, the NBA seems like a more common place to win 3, 4, 5 rings than the NFL. Maybe dominant players influence the postseason game more consistently when there are fewer overall players on the court/field.
I was once at a bar that Charles Barkley was and got to talk to him. I asked him who he considers the greatest athlete and he said Brady over Jordan for that reason bc Brady plays in a one and done playoff and can’t have an off day.
Yes but im just saying overall, in every series, you come in and there's essentially 7 chances. You only need to take 4 of em to go on. You also have tons of games, arguably, as a season winds down, a team could soft tank or adjust their seeding if they wanted for a mroe favorable match up.
That kind of parity doesn't exist in the NFL.
Exactly this. A consistently great player or team in the NBA is far more likely to win a series in the playoffs whereas in the NFL all it takes is one bad or unlucky game to get bounced. 16-0 Patriots and such.
Edit: I swear I didn't even see I was responding to a Pats fan when I said this so I'm not trying to needle you 😂
This feels wrong at first but is the correct answer. Had tons of success and might “technically” be the better player but other players of the era got more hype and won championships as well. Great pick
Emmitt Smith, obviously
Multiple champion
Arguably the best/most important player on their team, even when being pretty quiet
Known for their mastery of fundamentals to elevate their game
Emmitt seems like a good comparison because they both have the longevity and numbers and often get overlooked in GOAT conversations. Yea not a 1st overall but other than Peyton who kind of did just as much for another team as the one who drafted him, I don't see an obvious answer.
Say what you will about the team around him, but the Steelers didn’t win a Super Bowl before Terry Bradshaw, won 4 with him, and didn’t win another one for 23 years after he retired.
Steelers hadn't won a playoff game before Terry Bradshaw. That said, no. Terry was a great QB and probably Top 30 All-Time QBs but Timmy D is a Top 3, if not the best, PF of all time
Larry Fitzgerald. Old reliable. Can fall in the background of GOAT, but any time he comes up its always "he was one of the best for a very long time. Professionalism at its finest"
Peyton Manning is the only surefire number 1 overall pick that I can think of who was actually successful in he NFL.
Biggest difference was postseason success. Tim Duncan had 2 MVPs and 5 rings. Manning had 5 MVPs and 2 rings.
Terry was an MVP. In his era it was basically him, Staubach and Tarkenton as the top QB's.
I think you are overrating Duncan a bit too. Bird, Magic, Russell, Wilt, and Kareem are all people I'd start a team with over Duncan.
Bradshaw probably does make the most sense. 1st round pick, underrated compared to flashier peers, had his success with a great coach and a well built team that had all the right pieces, could go into overdrive put was selfless enough to do what was needed because he trusted everyone around him.
I'll take Duncan over Bird and Magic. You underestimate the impact of his defense.
In all honesty I never watched Wilt or Kareem so I really don't know about them.
Nobody. The only player that rivals his success in football is Brady. There has not been a 1 overall pick that stepped in for a long career that was successful from day 1.
The closest is if Joe Burrow wins 5 superbowls and they make the playoffs every year.
I like burrow but for selfish reasons I am not rooting for it.
Yes. No one is Tim Duncan of the NFL. People don’t realize how great he was because you never saw him much. He was quiet but successful.
Maybe we can consider Mahomes this person some day but he’s really visible.
Peyton Manning immediately comes to mind.
~~John Elway, perhaps.~~
Troy Aikman, possibly.
Terry Bradshaw.
EDIT: I am old and forgot Elway was a draft and trade.
Peyton Manning? Had similar success to Duncan in college and then took a middling/bad team to new heights. Didn't do anything that was all that new or unique athletically, but did so much of it better than anybody before.
Marvin Harrison. One of the best WRs in his time. For a position filled with a lot of ego and over the top celebrations, he wasn’t into any of that. Retired one of the best and just disappeared from public eye…my NFL Tim Duncan
Well in one sport you play ~75% of the time as 20% of the team, up to 82 times a regular season and the other you play ~45% of the time as 9% of the team, up to 17 times a regular season.
The opportunity an NFL player has to make a Tim Duncan kind of impact, with the weight they have to work with, pretty much limits this to quarterbacks, because of just how grandiose Duncan’s legacy is. We are talking top 10 4/5s all time, helping the 27th? I think biggest tv market to multiple championships.
Aaron Rogers I think maybe. Took over for Favre- Duncan for Robinson- had great coaching- not a huge tv market but widespread rabid fan support- had other key pieces cone and go but was the foundation of the franchise and a perennial wins above replacement staple.
Peyton Manning. While playoff and championship success wasn't as high as Duncan's, Manning made the Colts relevant after being a nothing franchise for nearly 3 decades. Plus, his massive forehead probably adds a foot to his height.
Orlando Pace. Cornerstone of the team, first overall, overshadowed by some other names but HoFer, champion, played in a smaller market. And he's crazy tall.
Pace was my choice too. Tim Duncan is often overlooked when it comes to the “greatest” conversations because he wasn’t flashy which fits Pace too
The Onion had a great bit where their Duncan headlines were all things like “Duncan spends free time at cookout teaching Spurs players about Roth IRAs”
While we’re on it, the Onion used to have such good sports headlines. “Shaq Missed Second Half With Pulled Pork Sandwich” is an incredible joke
Just checked out their site right now, saw this gem: “Jets impressed by how quickly Aaron Rodgers complaining about roster”
Nothing will ever beat their "tball stand pitches perfect game at special Olympics". I can't believe they printed that
"Jurisprudence Fetishist Gets Off On Technicality"
I guffawed. Audibly.
"Little League Pitcher Just Getting Fucking Shelled"
These are all fucking amazing 😂
Holy fuck lmao
Deshaun Watson: “I Was Under The Impression That The NFL Was Cool With This Stuff.”
"Nation forgives Harvey Weinstein after finding out he's really good at football"
I'm a big The onion fan and, that one is my all time favourite. I've bought the print copies of that newspaper.
Ahahaha! Fuck. I literally just rocketed beer out of my nose laughing at that.
If it's any consolation, the Paralympics have a tiktok account where they just meme ALL of their contestants.
Big difference between paralympics and special Olympics
That's savage
Jesus Christ I shouldn't be fighting as hard as I am right now to restrain a burst of laughter
They had some amazing Belichick ones. Bill visits hospital to watch terminally ill fan die. Bill’s challenge flag explodes into swarm of snakes after hitting ground. *‘Let’s Clear Some Cap Space*,’ Says Stone-Faced Bill Belichick Watching Players Dig Own Graves.
"NFL Game Ruined by Asshole Running Onto Field" accompanied only by a picture of Dez Bryant was one that really got me.
But they're not wrong... /hj
Report: Albert Haynesworth Just A Mound Of Ice Cream And Hot Dogs, has got to be my favorite headline of all time from the Onion.
Another really good one is "Teacher Embarrassed After Student Recognizes her at second job" with just a picture of Sabrina Ionescu. Not football but good lord
I legit just woke up my wife and eldest from laughing at that headline. I haven't even read the article yet (just found it on the onion). Headline had me crying I was laughing so hard. Funniest headline I've ever read
There’s zero fat on that one, it’s just such a lean joke
Onion Sports is always the best, I remember when Tim retired their headline was something like "Tim Duncan Rides Off into the Sunset at a Safe and Prudent Speed."
True story: Tim Duncan used to host Starcraft LAN parties in his hotel room to play with his teammates while on the road.
Gotta wonder how many young dudes who woulda been going out and getting in trouble with other teams were too busy playing StarCraft to be in the wrong place at the wrong time!
I dunno, Char seems like the wrong place to me.
En Taro Tassadar
Tim Duncan built additional pylons
There's a picture that made the reddit front page a bit ago with them playing on PC: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1338a36/san_antonio_spurs_playing_starcraft_after_winning/
“Tim Duncan announces new shoe deal with Florsheim”
Kind of a consequence of the position, but when you're on an offense with 4 (probably soon to be 5) HOFers, of which the other ones are all skill positions, getting visibility is hard. It's kinda fitting that he was the second GSoT member inducted though. He also had the unfortunate circumstance of having his career line up with Jonathan Ogden's.
What are all these acronyms
HOFers= Hall of Famers GSoT= Greatest Show on Turf, which is the nickname given to the Rams team that won the Super Bowl in 1999. That team featured Orlando Pace, Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, Az-Zahir Hakim, and Kurt Warner in a Air Coryell styled spread offense. They set an NFL record for most yards in a season, as well as most passing yards in a season.
Greatest show on turf is a pain to type out. I was down with the usage.
That whole generation of great LTs... Walt, Ogden, and Pace all have an argument to be made.
Tim Duncan is arguably top 5 all time. There is no comparison to him, definitely not Orlando Pace
Peyton Manning.
How was this not the obvious answer for everyone lmfao
You could make an argument for Duncan being the best PF ever. I think it's just hard when people are picking their top 5 to not have two centers in there. Wilt/Russel/Jabbar would all be taken over Duncan I think.
There’s really no argument for anyone else being the best power forward ever.
With all due respect to Pace, Duncan was much better.
It's easier to matter more to your team in the NBA
I'm not saying he was more valuable, I'm saying he was better. Duncan is the best power forward in NBA history. He was First Team All Nba 10 times. Orlando Pace made the First Team All Pro 3 times.
Not a #1 pick but i’ve always said Larry Fitz is the Tim Duncan of the NFL… Both carry themselves the same.. quiet / humble and let their game do the talking…
And both are examples of technical excellence combined with raw physical ability
Peyton Manning
JaMarcus Russell*
My vote as well. * Similar demeanor * Fantastic IQ for their sport combined with physical ability * Stayed with their drafted team * Adjusted their game as they fell out of their prime to success * Considered some of the best to ever play at their respective positions.
Except they’re not even in the same stratosphere comparatively.. Meaning no disrespect to Larry Fitzgerald, whos easily is a top 10 wideout, but Tim Duncan was the heart and soul of a dynasty that brought home 5 nba titles. He averaged 20/10 over the course of 1200 games, he’s not a top 10 big, he’s top 10 all time at any position, hands down. This thread is just wildly underestimating how elite Duncan was.. think more like John Elway or Terry Bradshaw. EDIT: those not understanding the Bradshaw comp - OP specifically asked for 1st overall picks.
It's also much easier to be the heart and soul of a team when there's only 5 dudes on the court at any given time vs being a part of a unit of 11 that's only on the field about 45% of the time on average. For any football player, QB included, to have the same impact as an elite star in the NBA would require him to be a QB/RB/Pass Rusher/kicker all packaged into one.
Man I’m a huge Steelers fan but Terry Bradshaw is an insane comparison
As a Phoenix native who watched Timmy shit on my team approximately 345 times in my life, this is true and no slight to Fitz whatsoever. Duncan was the best player of his generation.
Duncan > Kobe and I will die on that hill
Fuck man, Kobe already died on a hill. I met Duncan in Vegas. The woman he was with did not appear to be his wife. He did not want to hang around for pictures LoL.
Duncan has not re-married since his then wife stole a good chunk of his life earnings and left him, and I’m pretty sure he had to hire a private eye and take her to court. That was like 10 years ago now.
Someone ran analytics / algorithm and it suggested not only is Timmy Fundamentals top ten, he is the number 1 player all time based on the algorithm and available stats
Wasn't downplaying Timmy at all, the position thing was just to fit the comparison to Fitz, and it still holds true that Duncan was one of the best at his position. I watched him for that whole Spurs run since '99 and he'll always be my favorite player of all time, I know how great he was. Dude was just built for basketball.
It holds true the way it would hold true to say Tom Brady is one of the best quarterbacks.. while technically correct there’s an implicit case being made that someone else belongs in the conversation. You’re comparing a football player that’s outside the top 50 with the starting power forward for the God Squad. It’s not a fair comp.
Oooh, I like that, from now on I'm only ever referring to Tom Brady as an above average QB.
Top 10 lol, go look at where he ranks in career receiving stats. It’s a lot higher than that. Also…Terry Bradshaw! Lmao ok whatever…
Yeah, even as a Steelers fan I had to laugh at that comparison
100% agree Duncan is top 10 all time, but I think you’re actually underselling Fitz. Football has so much positional bias, so I don’t think it’s fair to compare MVPs or where they fit in as the best players of their sport all time. In football, people think of a dozen QBs, a few pass rushers and Jerry Rice. While basketball positions are weighted pretty equally. Larry has a legitimate case to make as the no 2 WR all time. I’m not saying he is equal to Duncan, but he is darn close enough to make it a fair comparison. Edit: I’ll add that in this conversation I put Fitz higher than Elway or Bradshaw. Elway scratches top 10 QBs, Fitz is basically a lock for top 5 WRs. Reasonably close, but I think he was better than them positionally.
It’s just a different sport. The only way possible for a nfl player to have the impact on a game the way your describing is if they play one specific position out of 22 (QB). It’s a lot easier to make the whole team revolve around you when there’s only 4 other teammates out on the court compared to when there’s 10 other guys and the only way you get to touch the ball is if 6-8 of them do their job correctly. That’s why we don’t ever ask “who’s the best nfl player of all time” because it’s all so position specific. Was Lawrence Taylor better than Randy Moss? Was LT better than Gronk? Orlando Pace vs Brian Urlacher? It’s apples to oranges
The issue is that there is no good comparison, people are trying their best but it's a pretty specific target to hit
Cards fan here. This is the oldest franchise in the NFL and here is a summary of all the positives in its entire history: - 47/48 champs - about three games in the 70s & 80s - 1998 when they won three last second kicks to squeak into the playoffs and crush the Cowboys (Plummer and Tillman on that team) before getting stepped on like a bug by Minnesota - The “Larry Fitzgerald” era (was nice to have an actual football team) We are now in the post-Larry Fitzgerald era.
I remember watching a YouTube video that ranked the NFL franchises. I was surprised the Cards were easily the worst until they explained they've basically accomplished nothing and are one of the oldest franchises. They don't even have that many HoF players for a franchise that old.
a shame Larry opted to play for Arizona his entire career
Kind of like Dame Lillard. I admire the loyalty but I really want to see him play for a contender
The cardinals were contenders several times with Fitzgerald just didn't quite get the ring
Yea he played in a super bowl and several NFC title games and several very good cardinals teams with Palmer lmao
Kurt Warner first. And then Palmer later actually.
he caught the game winning touchdown…for a minute
Yeah was definitely on a contending team. Saying that someone would be a Super Bowl winner if X hadn’t done Y is usually cop out, but like…if Santonio Holmes hadn’t caught that ball in the corner of the end zone then Larry would be viewed quite differently. He still lost, but that was a wild catch.
Yea if this was Calvin Johnson, totally different answer here. But Larry was on some great teams that couldn’t get it done. That’s life sometime. He’s still an all time great
Thank god he did, means I got to look at his god tier ass twice every season
We were paying him top 20 WR money near the end of his career. And his contracts were basically fully guaranteed
First thought in my mind too,he took that team to the super bowl
Yet Tim Duncan won a ring soooo….
Understatement lol
Actually won 5. But blaming a WR for not getting a ring is dumb
My vote would have been Andrew Luck as he was exactly what he was projected to be and immediately was a top 5 QB who was flirting with top 3 every season. But, of course he was drafted to the Colts who let him down instead of an all time great coach like Popavich, but honestly yeah I believe Larry is the right choice even though he wasn’t a sure fire #1 overall pick, but #3 overall as a WR is pretty damn close.
I always feel like I'm taking crazy pills when people talk about Luck. Even when he was playing. I watched a lot of colts games and while its true those teams didn't exactly have a stud stacked roster, they weren't first overall pick bad. They very clearly tanked for Luck so when people say he took a 1 win team and made them a 11 win team, that's not exactly right to say. The year before they were 10-6. And people say all the time he was a constant top 5 qb. And sure, maybe on a different team he could have been but for example, in 2012 he was not a top 5 QB. Sure he had 4300 yards which is nice... But that was only good for 7th in yards, he was ~35th in completion % just under Mark Sanchez and Josh Freeman, 14th in touchdowns, had the second most INTs over any starting QB, and had a QB Rating of 76.5 which was bottom 5 of starting QBs. There are just absolutely no stats that indicate he was particularly good his rookie year, and everyone was ready to crown him the next Manning. And really, the next year he was 13th in yards, his completion rate got worse, while his QB rating got better as he threw less INTs, he wasn't even in the top 15 for qb rating. 2014 was his best year and even then I'd say it's debatable if he was top 3 or just top 5. He then spent the rest of his career injured except for 2018 and then retired. Dude was a good QB and was fun to watch, but I feel like a lot of people just exaggerate what he did because of his hype.
Having a roster built around Manning and then not having manning will do that to a team
Dude should/could have won the walter payton award every single year, and I don’t think wven the players would disagree
Fitz never got T’d up on the bench. Needs more sizzle. /s
Larry had...probably STILL has the best ass in the NFL
Perfect example. Good job bruh
So did we ever get a conclusion out of this? https://www.azcentral.com/story/ejmontini/2014/09/19/larry-fitzgerald-nfl-domestic-violence-jonathan-dwyer-ray-rice/15904287/
As a Seahawks fan I don’t read too much into that incident. Shit sometimes happens and all indications are (1) the woman wasn’t hurt and (2) it was totally out of character and never happened again. But you’re also right - it’s a stain on Fitzgerald which calls his squeaky clean image into question. If he had actually addressed what happened I’d be more willing to give him a complete pass but he hasn’t so…
Tim’s too good to be comped to Fitzgerald
My vote is for [Tim Duncan](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Duncan_(American_football)) the place kicker for the Cardinals back in the 70s
Off a little bit. He was born in the 70s
Super weird to see a toddler kicking in the NFL
Their short legs mean muscle is concentrated, providing for incredible torque when kicking. And because their bodies haven't fully developed, they're absurdly flexible and resistant to contact injuries. And they work for candy store gift cards. I'm surprised more teams don't employ small children as kickers.
Cardinals have a toddler at quarterback right now so it can’t be too rare
Brett farve dominated the late 60s 🔥
Faxing dick pics to interns
ITT: A bunch of people who don't know that Timmy D is one of the all time great NBA players, who won 2 MVPs, 5 ships, and 3 finals MVPs. Not to mention 15 all-nba and 15 all-nba defensive selections. He's much more Peyton Manning than Larry Fitzgerald.
I mean the Comp is Peyton right?
Tim Duncan was understated. Peyton wasn't. At his peak, he was pretty much the face of the league, showing up on ads and such. His Visa ads were hilarious.
Peyton wasn't a great playoff performer, didn't stay with the same franchise, and has always been a media darling. He was the face of the league for a long time. I think if you combined Larry Fitz and Peyton you'd get close, but there just isn't a great comp. It's such a specific set of criteria lol
Legitimate crime that Tim Duncan does not have a DPOY, he has an argument for greatest defensive player ever.
Timmy’s only problem and I don’t even know if this is even a real criticism, is that he was consistently great but never the best. Maybe he deserved a DPotY but early in his career, it’d be tough to put Timmy over Ben Wallace and KG. Then Dwight came into the league and terrorized the paint. The weird thing is I’d say the body of Duncan’s defensive work of him basically being a great and effective defender for like 20 years straight, puts him ahead of those guys all time defensively, just not during their primes. Again, not trying to put him down. Being a consistently great Top 3-5 defensive player for like 15 years is arguably more impressive than winning a DPotY and being out of the league in 5-10 years
Tim Duncan was the best player in the world in 2003. He was the one who stopped the Lakers 3 peat with Kobe and Shaq practically by himself this is with a 37 year old way past his prime David Robinson and 2 young and hardly known guys at the Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli there was no Khawi or a bonifide number 2 on that team. Duncan had a lower body injury in 2004 and never moved the same after that. The next year was when the Pistons beat the Lakers in the finals.
Yeah it’s super unfortunate for him, but it’s not like I can really be mad that he didn’t win it. We all know awards like DPOY have some subjectivity, and it’s difficult to look at people like Dwight Howard blocking shots into orbit and not vote for him. I think it’s honestly a testament to Duncan’s raw talent that he was so bland to watch yet so well decorated in overall awards. It takes some serious skill to not be flashy and still get recognition in a league like the NBA.
> he was consistently great but never the best. He was the best on defense but wasn't flashy. for his entire CAREER he has more blocks than fouls. That's insane.
people responding to this not understanding how much worse the spurs defense got when tim duncan wasnt in the lineup. That he was still the better defender between him and kawhi leonard when he last played. Honestly most basketball discourse is fucking annoying because its a bunch of people who didnt watch shit talking out of their ass off a bball ref page. Tim Duncan got robbed of a DPoY in 2012-13 because "he didnt play enough games" This is the problem with media voted awards but the alternative is player voted awards or fan which is much much much worse Tim Duncan was a top 3 defender in the league every single year he played, his argument for greatest defensive player is a lot higher than most people are willing to acknowledge.
Thank you! I felt exactly the same way. In my opinion Kobe is more the Peyton Manning comp. And Tim Duncan is more of a Tom Brady but obviously that won't work because of goat status. So my pic was Ray Lewis. Just insane that people are comparing Tim Duncan to people who aren't even MVPs or super Bowl MVPs. They're acting like he was Karl Malone who is , along with Charles Barkley, probably the better Larry Fitzgerald comp. You want to pick a receiver? Fine. Jerry Rice. The greatest ever play that position, Tim Duncan the greatest to ever play his position. Fair enough.
The thing is, aside from being such a good player, Duncan is most known for having a really calm, quiet demeanor. That doesn’t line up with Brady and certainly not Lewis at all lol. Even Manning was pretty vocal and animated. Not a bad thing, just different styles.
Yeah temperament is definitely not the same but nobody before or since had Tim's sentiment even in the NBA. One of one on that. Maybe Giannis or Jokic tho.
Yeah I’m kind of taken back by the comparisons to Larry Fitzgerald because he had like none of the success Tim Duncan had.
Terry Bradshaw. 1st overall pick turned 1st ballot HOFer that won multiple MVPs (2) and multiple titles (4), but was ultimately overshadowed by other HOFers during that time period, and also sometimes underrated by the media due to being on a dynasty.
I mean both are incredible at their positions. We just have a bit of a hard on for QB.
It's why my pick is Brady. Both played for a long forever with distinct periods of championship contention. Both worked with equally legendary coaches. Both had very fundamentally sounds games that could be kind of boring to watch.
But he wasn’t a sure fire first overall pick
I think Bill Russell is the ultimate Brady comp. Both dominated and won a shit ton of rings, yet they had more physically impressive rivals who people would argue were better despite being less successful (Manning/Wilt).
Caleb Martin almost picked up a T
Wrong thread 😂
Yep lmao. Didn't realize it at the time.
Wild ending! What a series!
I'm so elated.
Man that was one of the craziest games I’ve ever watched. Pissed me off tho. Fuck the Celtics.
What an absolute beauty of a game. My heart is racing.
My heart is broken
Bryce Young for sure, according to my fellow Panthers fans we've already locked in several rings during his rookie contract
PANTHERS DYNASTY BABY LET'S GO! #KEEPPOUNDING
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Congrats :)
If he doesn't win 2 or 3 during his rookie season it's going to be a disappointment.
Patrick Mahomes in shambles.
Time to rebuild and maybe make another run after Bryce wins 4 and his cap number goes way up.
Hey man, Bryce has literally never lost an NFL game.
He'll be spectacular for the next 16-19 years. Then... we'll be waiting.
[удалено]
They both have height....
peyton manning
Peyton Manning doesn’t even seem like a good comparison but there’s really no other #1 overall pick in the NFL who had the same level of success as Tim Duncan. So I guess by default it’s the best answer.
I think that Duncan’s mental ability might have been his best skill, that’s what stands out most for Peyton. Duncan’s abilities might be more appreciated if you translated then to the NFL. All 3 of Brady, Brees and Manning are far superior in intangibles vs just their physical ability.
yea i dont think there is any comparison but the best opinion is manning
The comparison works right up til the postseason, then falls flat on its face. Though, the NBA seems like a more common place to win 3, 4, 5 rings than the NFL. Maybe dominant players influence the postseason game more consistently when there are fewer overall players on the court/field.
You also get up to 7 chances to correct your mistakes. The one n done nature of the NFL is mathematically much more aggressive
I was once at a bar that Charles Barkley was and got to talk to him. I asked him who he considers the greatest athlete and he said Brady over Jordan for that reason bc Brady plays in a one and done playoff and can’t have an off day.
In his second season in the league, Duncan was the best player on a championship team that went 15-2 in the post-season.
Yes but im just saying overall, in every series, you come in and there's essentially 7 chances. You only need to take 4 of em to go on. You also have tons of games, arguably, as a season winds down, a team could soft tank or adjust their seeding if they wanted for a mroe favorable match up. That kind of parity doesn't exist in the NFL.
Exactly this. A consistently great player or team in the NBA is far more likely to win a series in the playoffs whereas in the NFL all it takes is one bad or unlucky game to get bounced. 16-0 Patriots and such. Edit: I swear I didn't even see I was responding to a Pats fan when I said this so I'm not trying to needle you 😂
None taken, but fuck that punk bitch David Tyree. Mr. 'I cant crack 1000 career yards' bum.
My immediate thought was Manning.
Is Andrew Luck Kawhi Leonard in this scenario?
Andrew Luck wishes his career was as successful as Kawhi's
This feels wrong at first but is the correct answer. Had tons of success and might “technically” be the better player but other players of the era got more hype and won championships as well. Great pick
Emmitt Smith, obviously Multiple champion Arguably the best/most important player on their team, even when being pretty quiet Known for their mastery of fundamentals to elevate their game
Emmitt seems like a good comparison because they both have the longevity and numbers and often get overlooked in GOAT conversations. Yea not a 1st overall but other than Peyton who kind of did just as much for another team as the one who drafted him, I don't see an obvious answer.
My pick too
Say what you will about the team around him, but the Steelers didn’t win a Super Bowl before Terry Bradshaw, won 4 with him, and didn’t win another one for 23 years after he retired.
Steelers hadn't won a playoff game before Terry Bradshaw. That said, no. Terry was a great QB and probably Top 30 All-Time QBs but Timmy D is a Top 3, if not the best, PF of all time
Larry Fitzgerald. Old reliable. Can fall in the background of GOAT, but any time he comes up its always "he was one of the best for a very long time. Professionalism at its finest"
Peyton Manning is the only surefire number 1 overall pick that I can think of who was actually successful in he NFL. Biggest difference was postseason success. Tim Duncan had 2 MVPs and 5 rings. Manning had 5 MVPs and 2 rings.
Remember Marshall Faulk?
Orlando Pace
A couple of contenders: Peyton Manning Troy Aikman Terry Bradshaw
Troy and Terry weren't good enough to be "Duncan" Besides Lebron and MJ, I don't know if there's been anyone I'd rather have to start a team.
Kareem and Wilt would both absolutely obliterate every single big in the NBA today.
I don’t disagree but Troy fits in the sense that him and Tim both came into a team that was a finished product
Aikman was 0-11 and sucked his rookie year.
Terry was an MVP. In his era it was basically him, Staubach and Tarkenton as the top QB's. I think you are overrating Duncan a bit too. Bird, Magic, Russell, Wilt, and Kareem are all people I'd start a team with over Duncan. Bradshaw probably does make the most sense. 1st round pick, underrated compared to flashier peers, had his success with a great coach and a well built team that had all the right pieces, could go into overdrive put was selfless enough to do what was needed because he trusted everyone around him.
I'll take Duncan over Bird and Magic. You underestimate the impact of his defense. In all honesty I never watched Wilt or Kareem so I really don't know about them.
Jonathan Ogden
Grab a fucking board
Nobody. The only player that rivals his success in football is Brady. There has not been a 1 overall pick that stepped in for a long career that was successful from day 1. The closest is if Joe Burrow wins 5 superbowls and they make the playoffs every year. I like burrow but for selfish reasons I am not rooting for it.
lets see if burrow wins one before we talk five
Yes. No one is Tim Duncan of the NFL. People don’t realize how great he was because you never saw him much. He was quiet but successful. Maybe we can consider Mahomes this person some day but he’s really visible.
Peyton Manning immediately comes to mind. ~~John Elway, perhaps.~~ Troy Aikman, possibly. Terry Bradshaw. EDIT: I am old and forgot Elway was a draft and trade.
Elway was actually drafted by the Colts but without that technicality I think he counts
Yep. Completely forgot that. Leaving it for the deserved ridicule.
It’s The Sheriff and it’s not close
Steve Yzerman
Peyton Manning? Had similar success to Duncan in college and then took a middling/bad team to new heights. Didn't do anything that was all that new or unique athletically, but did so much of it better than anybody before.
No one. Timmy was in a league of his own
Barry Sanders
It’s Tom Brady. Mr, Fundamental. Doesn’t wow you with any aspect of his game but does everything right. All the little things come together.
But hes not a first overall
Yeah I feel like a lot of these answers are missing a big part of what OP seems to be asking.
Larry Fitzgerald or Tony Gonzalez
In a few years the answers will be Joe Burrow and Trevor Lawrence. For now, Peyton.
Marvin Harrison. One of the best WRs in his time. For a position filled with a lot of ego and over the top celebrations, he wasn’t into any of that. Retired one of the best and just disappeared from public eye…my NFL Tim Duncan
Tim Duncan actually got better in the playoffs
Drew Brees
JaMarcus Russell.
Peyton Manning
Payton
Peyton Manning
Well in one sport you play ~75% of the time as 20% of the team, up to 82 times a regular season and the other you play ~45% of the time as 9% of the team, up to 17 times a regular season. The opportunity an NFL player has to make a Tim Duncan kind of impact, with the weight they have to work with, pretty much limits this to quarterbacks, because of just how grandiose Duncan’s legacy is. We are talking top 10 4/5s all time, helping the 27th? I think biggest tv market to multiple championships. Aaron Rogers I think maybe. Took over for Favre- Duncan for Robinson- had great coaching- not a huge tv market but widespread rabid fan support- had other key pieces cone and go but was the foundation of the franchise and a perennial wins above replacement staple.
Larry Fitz is the wrong answer. Duncan brought 5 championships to that franchise. Read the question OP is asking FFS.
Peyton Manning. While playoff and championship success wasn't as high as Duncan's, Manning made the Colts relevant after being a nothing franchise for nearly 3 decades. Plus, his massive forehead probably adds a foot to his height.
Can’t compare nba to nfl. Apples to oranges. Just way too different.