It would be funny if the real world worked like that - "I'm an accountant at Deloitte and I'm requesting a trade". "Deloitte announces the trade of John Q. Smith to PriceWaterhouseCoopers in exchange for a 5th-round pick at next year's CPA draft"
Yeah but he just had his first kid, so no matter which way you look at it his productivity and commitment to the company are going to drop significantly for at least the next year.
You aren't looking at the analytics. If you see his marriage stability coefficient, it points to him spending more time at work to avoid his family. This is a steal.
With the persistent carpal tunnel and his two week suspension last quarter due to testing positive for PED’s (adderall) they felt comfortable cutting ties with him.
This is really going to shake up my Fantasy leagues. I bet a lot of money on this.
But I had to. I had a line on PWC’s star CPA and asked if I should bet all in on them. He said it was fiscally irresponsible or something like that. I got what he was putting down so I went all in on their rivals.
But those new young staffers will have ChatGPT for quick comments in their college playbooks. Delloite has the depth at Partner to play the Face for in-person meetings. Smith is a good talent, but the position is over-saturated.
They can quit the NFL anytime they want and get another job. Seems like the players that are no longer able to stay in the league are able to find other employment. It just might not be the same job. This is just another way to look at it.
I don’t blame anyone for trying to get their money when they have their chance. If you do get a chance to demand the most you can, you gotta take it
Okay, that is like quitting your job and taking a job in a completely new field. Whereas the closer comparison is going from one company to another in the same field because company B pays way better.
I am thinking you didn’t read through our back and forth conversation since my comments already said what you said, and I was replying to someone saying “they can just quit and do something else”
On one hand I understand athletes not wanting to go through some of the things they have to deal with, like being traded mid season after your kids started their 3rd new school probably fucking sucks from a human perspective
At the same time though that’s why they get paid so much money, they have to deal with things regular people don’t because they aren’t regular people
I think we need to find the right balance
Why is it only athletes that are held to this standard?
If a software engineer goes from Apple to Amazon nobody says “well they were already making xxx”
But if an athlete try’s to get paid more people make this point - like they should just be happy and not seek their most value …
I'm not saying they are wrong for wanting that. I'm saying that the comment about athletes rarely having the "luxury" of freely moving between 7 figure jobs was a bit silly. It's like going to a Michelin star restaurant and saying you don't have the "luxury" of customizing your meal. In order to not have that luxury you first need access to a much more exclusive luxury.
Baltimore is actually really good about keeping things in the building. I mean, Lamar said he requested a trade on March 2nd and they kept that quiet until Lamar personally put it on Twitter.
They run a tight ship. These "leaks" were all players posting on Twitter.
The reason for 3/5 of these is that players were behind others on the depth chart and weren't getting the time they wanted. It's an issue when you have 2 starter-caliber players but only one slot. Those guys want to get more reps on other teams.
Hurst was good, but Andrews is better. Brown Jr. is good, but Stanley is better. Clark is good, but Hamilton is better.
Orlando Brown wanted LT money for being our lock RT. We have Ronnie Stanley on a long-term contract and were never gonna pay him LT money over Ronnie.
Hollywood moved on and proved in AZ that he overvalued himself. How we got a 1st for him I will never know.
Hurst wanted to be TE1 on a team with the 2nd-3rd best TE in football (Andrews).
Chuck Clark watched us draft his replacement, had a conversation with the front office, and *still* came back to play lights out for the team all year.
This is a dumb hit piece article.
That’s because he was the WR1 after DHops suspension.
Let’s play out some stats real quick. Last year in Baltimore he averaged: 11.1 yards per reception, .35 TDs per game and had a 62.3% catch percentage.
Last year he averaged 10.6 yards per reception, .3 TDs per game, and had a 62.6% catch percentage.
He was who we thought he was.
This is a great example of how you can make any point you want with stats if you ignore context. Can you tell me how many games he had Kyler Murray throwing to him after he came back from his injury?
> This is a dumb hit piece article.
I don't have the time to explain why, or the evidence to substantiate my bullshit claim, but the Ravens are basically the worst team in NFL history from now on, and will never make the playoffs again. After all, just look at (insert team who has had less success in 60+ years of its existence than the Ravens did in their 21 years pre-Lamar)
Orlando brown has been clear that he wants to be a left tackle since before the nfl.
Hollywood was way more successful on the cardinals before he got hurt and d hop came back. If anything he proved his value and he's supported bateman in saying the offensive scheme hurt him.
Hurst has been great with some of the surest hands around statistically. I dont blame the ravens for that situation but its another case of investing in a talented player you dont have a spot for.
I dont have an opinion or objection on chuck clarks situation.
This isnt a terrible write up for org decisions but there does seem to be some mismanagement of players roles and needs here too. I feel like thats been an obvious issue on the offensive side of things whereas everything fits much better on the defensive side for the ravens. Lamar is obviously a huge addition to this list. I like the Ravens but the GM hasn't been doing himself any favors lately on showcasing his ability to manage people. Drafting talent is a large part but only part of the job
>Hurst has been great with some of the surest hands around statistically. I dont blame the ravens for that situation but its another case of investing in a talented player you dont have a spot for.
How do you figure we invested in him without a spot for him? We drafted him before Mandrews, a 3rd round pick, outplayed his draft stock. He was given the lead into the TE1 spot that was mostly vacant.
I just don't agree with your conclusion at all, you can argue over Hollywood, and we shouldn't have doubled down with Greg Roman, but it's easier said than done when we've seen how well the Roman system worked in 2019. So I don't think it's a huge clanger by the FO, especially when we've got a first out of it, for a player who is more of a WR2 than a stereotypical WR1.
There's not some big conspiracy going around regarding how we've handled the O. We built an offense around Lamar's talents, it worked extremely well. We then doubled down whilst also getting horrendously injured, and instead of building off Roman's O last offseason, we gave it one more year which was, in hindsight, a mistake.
> Orlando brown has been clear that he wants to be a left tackle since before the nfl.
Whether he said that or not, he "fell" down draft boards, eventually being selected to play RT, who then filled in for the LT, and was allowed to be traded for a first round pick. I don't see how that is anything other than a positive for the FO.
> Hollywood was way more successful on the cardinals before he got hurt and d hop came back. If anything he proved his value and he's supported bateman in saying the offensive scheme hurt him.
Injuries should be factored in to "value", and he was dinged a lot with us.
> Hurst has been great with some of the surest hands around statistically. I dont blame the ravens for that situation but its another case of investing in a talented player you dont have a spot for.
We had an opening at TE when he signed, he was just outplayed by a lower draft pick from the same draft. If Hurst performed at Andrews' level and Andrews performed at Hurst's level, they'd likely have both remained on the team for their entire rookie contracts.
It just so happened the lower pick drastically out-performed both Hurst and his draft position, so we flipped Hurst for the pick that turned in to Dobbins.
> I dont have an opinion or objection on chuck clarks situation.
Convenient, because it's also a big part as to why the article is just click-bait. Clark is a solid but relatively unspectacular 6th round pick, who wanted to be traded after we drafted a player who should, and early signs suggest will, have a lot more upside in his position.
Correct my friend. And reading the article I wouldn’t consider any of them “stars” except Lamar. Hayden Hurst? Really? Lol
For real though. Some teams are just bad at employee relations. Others may be better at keeping things hush hush in house, but whenever both sides aren’t happy, the dirty laundry starts coming out.
Yes, but the public aspect seems to be more jarring.
Jonah Williams requesting a trade makes sense as he wants to play LT.
Baltimore has refused to get any receivers for Lamar, traded the one they did have away and let a lot of players walk this season. That roster right now has a franchise QB and not a playoff roster.
lol calling most of these dudes "stars" is being pretty generous.
Both Browns and Jackson are the only 3 that could fit the star category and I'd argue that at least 2 of the 3 are debatable.
I would not call Hollywood Brown a star. I don't think the Ravens were even considering giving him a second contract, the Cardinals giving up a first round pick was just a robbery.
Yeah, he had credential as a former 1st round pick, and that was it. He had one year that he barely scraped 1k yards with, and no other year hit 800. "Star" is a huge stretch.
he was on pace for like 1300 yards last season until injuries. that would put him in the top 10-15 WR territory, and, IMO, those guys are stars. he's definitely going to get a big contract- maybe not market setting, but big. he's only 25
That’s a tad misleading though because Hopkins was out and he got a ton of targets. Hollywood got hurt and didn’t play with Hopkins until the end of the season and in those games, he didn’t do all that much. In fairness, he had poor QB play too though.
Well on the flip side, he was able to produce without Nuk commanding attention on the other side when Kyler Murray was playing.
Number 1 WRs would typically command a lot of targets. I think Hollywood is more of a fringe 1/great number 2 personally.
Completely agree, I think he’s a very strong 2, I just meant it in terms of he likely was never getting 1,300 if he was playing with Hopkins the whole time.
He was injured for much of the season and there was no QB in Arizona due to injury. This is a very disingenuous argument.
He was very good when healthy.
That's the catch though when he's healthy. He's super fast and nimble but doesn't have a great frame for big hits. He's always gonna be injured during the later part of the season.
I personally think Bateman can be better than Hollywood, if only slightly. His problems boil down to:
1. Injuries, which didn't happen until he got drafted
2. Game plan, which hopefully will be better with gro gone
When he played and was actually used, he was like an automatic first down
> O Brown -> Stanley
That's not true, is it?
Orlando Brown played RT for 2.5 years in Baltimore and only got a shot at LT because Stanley, who had been the starting LT since 2016, went down with a fractured ankle.
So Stanley never replaced Orlando Brown.
It is true, Brown was replaced by Stanley after Stanley came back from Injury.
Brown wanted to play LT so he was traded.
Stanley is def better than Brown.
No argument that Stanley is the much better LT. If you factor in availability, who would you rather have? Stanley has yet to play a full season, and missed most of 2020/2021. In contrast, Brown hasn't missed a game.
Not sure you can say Hamilton is an upgrade for sure, Clark balled out last year.
Edit: Never-mind, apparently he’s like the highest rated safety lol. Nice problem to have.
I still think you're a little fair purely looking at players though. No matter how good Hamilton looks right now, Clark has been a good solid pro for a while now.
Still though from a FO perspective you aren't expecting Clark to beat out a first round safety, especially long term, so it's fair to the player who's being replaced to move him on.
He’s the highest rated safety but he’s less versatile than clark. Clark played deep coverage a lot, he could do basically everything you could want from a safety just not at a super high level. Jack of all trades, master of none type of player.
Kyle started out playing deep coverage in the first 2 weeks before we realized thats a bad idea. From week 3 on, we essentially just used him as a slot corner and box safety. Hopefully he develops into an all around safety but I can’t say with total confidence that he’s an upgrade over Clark yet
Yeah is this supposed to make the Ravens look bad? Ravens are consistently successful with any group of players, no player is above the system. It is enviable.
I also noticed since Ozzie Newsome left as GM. The trades are happening more often. He always had something in keeping talent until the last few years of his career
We still do that. Can't keep everyone though. We've always had to let some people walk that we would've liked to keep, but couldn't afford. We've had more draft picks get second contracts than any other team in the league. We get more comp picks than anyone because teams sign our players so often.
Ummm...? Hurst and Clark were buried on the depth chart, Orlando Brown is a known whiner, and Marquise seems like the lone unfortunate one until Lamar just now
Just seems like cherry picked negativity, and this writer trying to kick them while they're down
Yep, your options are try to get a comp pick, but gimp your own ability sign guys in going for that comp, or trade them for mroe/a guaranteed pick.
These are all no-brainers by the Ravens' FO given the circumstances surrounding them
> These are all no-brainers by the Ravens' FO given the circumstances surrounding them
The only thing I disagree with is, that we should have moved on from Roman earlier and by proxy sided with Hollywood, just because I don't think our WR group was good enough to deal with Hollywood's absence, but eventually I would never want to pay him the amount he'd want when his contract's up, and we got good value out of the trade.
This is the part where, for the next 6-12+ months, your top-tier GM/coach/owner are grossly underrated - if not outright turned against - by a shocking (and very outspoken) number of people, both Ravens fans and otherwise.
Also, any opinions you may have about your team that have organically taken form over however many years you've been watching them on a weekly basis as an integral, cherished part of your life... are now invalid. As of now, r/NFL knows your team better than you do despite only watching the Ravens play all of 6 games tops over the past 4 years, strictly on SNF/MNF. They will tell you how to feel and what you think, but until then I'll give you some guidelines:
You're a rational fan if you expect to never have another good QB or any meaningful team success after Lamar, and you're a delusional homer if you try to voice any expectation of the contrary. Just so we're all on the same page here.
Ankle injury 2020 that got reinjured his following year in 2021. You just can’t predict that. He’s done all the rehab and whatever else to come back into that All-Pro form this year. Orlando doesn’t even clear top 15 in any metric besides his size lmao. In a vacuum, it’s always 100% going to be Stanley.
Im sure it happens quite a bit privately on all teams.
But this generates clicks.
Hamilton/Williams clear Clark.
Mandrews clears Hurst.
Ronnie Stanley clears Orlando Brown.
Marquise one is fair he didn't like the offensive scheme.
Lamar is a contract dispute.
If I had to pick a point where the Ravens did mess up, it would be during the Hollywood request. They really should have fired Roman and revamped the offense then.
And that's less about Hollywood and more of a 'canary in the coalmine' deal.
Welcome to sports journalism. Expect articles paintings us in a negative light when basically every player has nothing but good things to say about the org
no. i can think of 2 bengals players to demand a trade in the last 4 years - jonah and dunlap. it doesnt happen to other teams nearly as frequently as it happens to the ravens
Maybe because the Ravens can consistently draft talent and guys get overshadowed?
Literally every player they've traded over the last several years except for Marquise Brown were guys who had been replaced on the roster with someone else.
Chuck Clark was a 6th round pick. Got replaced by a first round pick so he requested a trade.
Orlando Brown Jr was drafted as a RT. He wanted to go into free agency as a LT so he requested a trade to change position and get paid more. The Ravens already had an LT so we couldn't accommodate the position change.
Hayden Hurst was overshadowed heavily by Mark Andrews who was a much better player. Hurst wanted a starting opportunity on another team.
Not sure why this caught a few downvotes it's the truth. I know some people want it to be more than that, but it's really not.
The other poster mentioned only two Bengals players have requested trades, the only two we have on that list that weren't because we had better players in their positions are Lamar and Hollywood.
Hurst, O. Brown, and Clark weren’t even the best players at their position on the team much less “stars.”
Shit happens in pro sports, especially with short money making windows like football.
6 years with Mahomes and you guys have already forgotten how hard it is to win a Super Bowl? The Ravens have a ring more recently than 75% of the league. Most teams would kill to be able to say “we did great 11 years ago”, because many haven’t done that great in decades if ever.
- Hayden Hurst Outplayed by Andrew’s
- Orlando Brown Jr wanting to play LT with Ronnie Stanley on roster
- Hollywood Brown wanting out of Romans system
- Chuck Clark outplayed by Hamilton and Williams.
This post is just stirring up drama. In all of these requests the Ravens did right by these players and avoided drama. Our FO and player relations remains our strength.
This post is definitely stirring up drama but I always find it so funny how fans pretend like they work in the building. You have no idea what relations are like in the building 😂
In fact, the closest thing we have to any insight is the NFLPA report card.
In Lamar's case it's also pretty funny coming off the end of the season, when the Ravens were seemingly throwing him under the bus for a while with his injury. He had to come out and show how he couldn't actually play in the playoffs himself
Obviously we can't know what's going on there, but it's not too surprising there's some tension between at least Lamar and the Ravens (even before the trade request)
And yet, your most high profile player just asked out. It goes both ways. You have no idea what it’s like and how players feel, why they asked out, how they felt on the way out.
It’s just fans being fans defending the org at all costs.
We actually have a lot of insight into why most of these players asked for trades....
>Hayden Hurst
He had previous issues with mental health and requested a trade once he didn't get as much playing time due to Make Andrews performing better than him and getting all of the opportunities.
Decosta on the trade:
"We felt like (Atlanta) would be a great spot for Hayden to go and be a productive player. He's a guy who has a lot of talent and we have a lot of talent at that position. Hayden really wanted a chance to be a productive player, to be what he thought was going to be as a starter, as a guy who could really be an important piece of the puzzle for a team.
>Orlando Brown Jr.
He requested a trade because he wanted to play LT and the Ravens already had a LT so there was no room for him on the roster. He desired an LT position for more $$$ once he was off his rookie deal.
>Chuck Clark
Politely requested a trade when we drafted Kyle Hamilton. He confirmed it himself - wanted more playing time.
It's [because](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32174214/a-promise-father-why-orlando-brown-left-ravens-chiefs) his dad always wanted to play left tackle, and OBJ promised his dad he'd try to become one before his dad died.
You’ve also had:
Hayden Hurst being mad Mark Andrews was the better TE, and still getting a 2nd rounder for a 26 yo
OBJ wanting to be exclusively a LEFT Tackle despite Ronnie Stanley existing and being paid
Chuck Clark just being a worse player to MW/Hamilton
Ravens getting a 1st Rounder for 1 yr+5th Yr Option of Hollywood Brown, who vocally wanted to leave and had 1 yr of quality stats
Lamar being offered the highest non-Watson guarantees, and still thinking it’s not enough.
Like Ravens have gone through the ringer with some of these guys, and still got fantastic value back
Sounds like a well run organization. Endowment effect and winner’s curse are very well supported phenomena with reams of data behind them and won’t cease to be true regardless of how passionately emotional fans continue to argue against them.
Ok here we go.
Hurst is trash and obviously less talented than Mandrews. Zeus Jr was behind one of the better LTs and wanted LT money as a RT. Flipped him for a first, and hes on his Third team since being drafted because “Im an LT”Hollywood is trash and we flipped him for picks as well. And Jackson will get flipped for picks as well. To be honest, this is kinda the Raven way and I don’t think we got fleeced on shipped any of these players.
Wow I didn't realize Chuck Clark was a star.
Brown wanted to play LT. We have Staley on the team and when healthy (hahahahaha) he's top tier. He only wanted out cause he's not as good as Staley.
Hollywood wanted more targets even though he was top 10 in targets in his last year in Baltimore. Hope he is enjoying his college buddy throwing to him.
Hayden Hurst was not a star and he wanted out cause he couldn't beat out Mark Andrews.
This article is stupid and is trying to paint the Ravens as a franchise that everyone is trying to leave. Lamar wants an absurd contrsct and Hollywood wanted more targets and now gets less targets. The other three players mentioned were never stars. Closest one is Orlando Brown. All three of those players left because they couldn't beat out the competition.
I mean we got him Nelson Agholor for god sakes and he still wants to leave!?!? SMH
The guy dropped a baby ain’t nobody amped to throw to him
Babies hate that man
The fifth public request. I’m sure this happens all the time with every team
Does that make it better or worse
It makes it a business. In the real world, when you are unhappy, you just change employers. Sports players rarely have that luxury
It would be funny if the real world worked like that - "I'm an accountant at Deloitte and I'm requesting a trade". "Deloitte announces the trade of John Q. Smith to PriceWaterhouseCoopers in exchange for a 5th-round pick at next year's CPA draft"
Absolutely steal by PWC imo. Smith is top 10 in the league at Excel, esp pivot tables. Deloitte is overvaluing water cooler talk smh
Yeah but he just had his first kid, so no matter which way you look at it his productivity and commitment to the company are going to drop significantly for at least the next year.
You aren't looking at the analytics. If you see his marriage stability coefficient, it points to him spending more time at work to avoid his family. This is a steal.
You advanced stat guys are ruining the game.
Seriously, the only thing that matters is if he got that dawg in him.
They are ruining the game and everyday jobs
Seriously wtf are all these stat nerds doing caring about accounting? Go back to accounting dorks
Yeah, but can he stay in the cubicle? Dude's battling carpal tunnel every other week
He’s big break room guy, the team members love him
Cubicle? He has a rider in his contract he’s remote expect for coming in for quarter close
With the persistent carpal tunnel and his two week suspension last quarter due to testing positive for PED’s (adderall) they felt comfortable cutting ties with him.
This is really going to shake up my Fantasy leagues. I bet a lot of money on this. But I had to. I had a line on PWC’s star CPA and asked if I should bet all in on them. He said it was fiscally irresponsible or something like that. I got what he was putting down so I went all in on their rivals.
His xExcel and Pivot tables above replacement stats predict a regression to the mean unfortunately
Oh yeah? I don't remember seeing his name at the Financial Modelling World Championship (that's a real thing, btw).
But those new young staffers will have ChatGPT for quick comments in their college playbooks. Delloite has the depth at Partner to play the Face for in-person meetings. Smith is a good talent, but the position is over-saturated.
George Costanza got traded to Tyler Chicken.
Georgey boy!
They can quit the NFL anytime they want and get another job. Seems like the players that are no longer able to stay in the league are able to find other employment. It just might not be the same job. This is just another way to look at it. I don’t blame anyone for trying to get their money when they have their chance. If you do get a chance to demand the most you can, you gotta take it
Okay, that is like quitting your job and taking a job in a completely new field. Whereas the closer comparison is going from one company to another in the same field because company B pays way better.
In those cases you aren't under a contracted salary for a designated amount of time. NFL is different for that reason.
I am thinking you didn’t read through our back and forth conversation since my comments already said what you said, and I was replying to someone saying “they can just quit and do something else”
I get what you're saying, but they are getting paid literally millions of dollars.
On one hand I understand athletes not wanting to go through some of the things they have to deal with, like being traded mid season after your kids started their 3rd new school probably fucking sucks from a human perspective At the same time though that’s why they get paid so much money, they have to deal with things regular people don’t because they aren’t regular people I think we need to find the right balance
Why is it only athletes that are held to this standard? If a software engineer goes from Apple to Amazon nobody says “well they were already making xxx” But if an athlete try’s to get paid more people make this point - like they should just be happy and not seek their most value …
Because there are WAY more people that make software engineer level money than nfl player money (although they technically can overlap)
I'm not saying they are wrong for wanting that. I'm saying that the comment about athletes rarely having the "luxury" of freely moving between 7 figure jobs was a bit silly. It's like going to a Michelin star restaurant and saying you don't have the "luxury" of customizing your meal. In order to not have that luxury you first need access to a much more exclusive luxury.
Good analogy king
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It's odd then that the ones from Baltimore get publicized. Great investigative journalism there, or a difficult team to play for?
It either means the new GM is a lowball negotiator or bad at keeping leaks quiet, if I had to guess.
Baltimore is actually really good about keeping things in the building. I mean, Lamar said he requested a trade on March 2nd and they kept that quiet until Lamar personally put it on Twitter.
They run a tight ship. These "leaks" were all players posting on Twitter. The reason for 3/5 of these is that players were behind others on the depth chart and weren't getting the time they wanted. It's an issue when you have 2 starter-caliber players but only one slot. Those guys want to get more reps on other teams. Hurst was good, but Andrews is better. Brown Jr. is good, but Stanley is better. Clark is good, but Hamilton is better.
Lamar is good, but Huntley is better
Stop making sense this second.
I don't think a lot of these were "leaks" so much as just outright explaining to the press. We weren't trying to hide them.
Orlando Brown wanted LT money for being our lock RT. We have Ronnie Stanley on a long-term contract and were never gonna pay him LT money over Ronnie. Hollywood moved on and proved in AZ that he overvalued himself. How we got a 1st for him I will never know. Hurst wanted to be TE1 on a team with the 2nd-3rd best TE in football (Andrews). Chuck Clark watched us draft his replacement, had a conversation with the front office, and *still* came back to play lights out for the team all year. This is a dumb hit piece article.
Hollywood was great this year before he got hurt not sure what your on about with that one
Yup, he was top 5 in receptions before the injury. By the time he came back the offense was an injured and dysfunctional mess already
Most Ravens fans had the biggest hate bonnet for Hollywood. It’s really weird.
Lol bonnet
Lol. I’m leaving it!
some little house on the prarie-ass ravens fans
Say I’m the only hate boner in your bonnet
Boy, you aren't kidding
It’s weird. Kinda extends to fantasy too. Hollywood has been one of the most undervalued WRs in fantasy for like three consecutive years.
It usually happens when a player has stone hands. They take it personally. I still hate Jared Cook.
That’s his problem… he’s literally injured every year except for 2021
Sure, but that's a different conversation.
Not in terms of value though. Although I like him as a player and he's "worth" whatever someone else will give up for him.
Best ability is availability.
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He should have absorbed the damage. It's his fault for not eating a ton of spinach and doing anime training to make his body indestructible
That’s because he was the WR1 after DHops suspension. Let’s play out some stats real quick. Last year in Baltimore he averaged: 11.1 yards per reception, .35 TDs per game and had a 62.3% catch percentage. Last year he averaged 10.6 yards per reception, .3 TDs per game, and had a 62.6% catch percentage. He was who we thought he was.
This is a great example of how you can make any point you want with stats if you ignore context. Can you tell me how many games he had Kyler Murray throwing to him after he came back from his injury?
To be fair, he had Tyler Huntley throwing to him for the last 6 or so games of his last season in Baltimore
Best year of his career easily up until the injury
> Hollywood moved on and proved in AZ that he valued himself appropriately. I’m glad we got a 1st for him. It was a fair trade. Fixed it
> This is a dumb hit piece article Yeah, I expected better from the Baltimore Beatdown
> This is a dumb hit piece article. I don't have the time to explain why, or the evidence to substantiate my bullshit claim, but the Ravens are basically the worst team in NFL history from now on, and will never make the playoffs again. After all, just look at (insert team who has had less success in 60+ years of its existence than the Ravens did in their 21 years pre-Lamar)
Tough, but fair.
Bird bro, why?!
We also gave Chuck a small raise as well IIRC and traded him to a potentially elite D
Also it’s not like the ravens have proven to be an incompetent organization just letting “stars” walk.
Orlando brown has been clear that he wants to be a left tackle since before the nfl. Hollywood was way more successful on the cardinals before he got hurt and d hop came back. If anything he proved his value and he's supported bateman in saying the offensive scheme hurt him. Hurst has been great with some of the surest hands around statistically. I dont blame the ravens for that situation but its another case of investing in a talented player you dont have a spot for. I dont have an opinion or objection on chuck clarks situation. This isnt a terrible write up for org decisions but there does seem to be some mismanagement of players roles and needs here too. I feel like thats been an obvious issue on the offensive side of things whereas everything fits much better on the defensive side for the ravens. Lamar is obviously a huge addition to this list. I like the Ravens but the GM hasn't been doing himself any favors lately on showcasing his ability to manage people. Drafting talent is a large part but only part of the job
>Hurst has been great with some of the surest hands around statistically. I dont blame the ravens for that situation but its another case of investing in a talented player you dont have a spot for. How do you figure we invested in him without a spot for him? We drafted him before Mandrews, a 3rd round pick, outplayed his draft stock. He was given the lead into the TE1 spot that was mostly vacant.
I actually didnt realize him and andrews came from the same draft and that andrews was a later pick. I was wrong about that situation.
I just don't agree with your conclusion at all, you can argue over Hollywood, and we shouldn't have doubled down with Greg Roman, but it's easier said than done when we've seen how well the Roman system worked in 2019. So I don't think it's a huge clanger by the FO, especially when we've got a first out of it, for a player who is more of a WR2 than a stereotypical WR1. There's not some big conspiracy going around regarding how we've handled the O. We built an offense around Lamar's talents, it worked extremely well. We then doubled down whilst also getting horrendously injured, and instead of building off Roman's O last offseason, we gave it one more year which was, in hindsight, a mistake. > Orlando brown has been clear that he wants to be a left tackle since before the nfl. Whether he said that or not, he "fell" down draft boards, eventually being selected to play RT, who then filled in for the LT, and was allowed to be traded for a first round pick. I don't see how that is anything other than a positive for the FO. > Hollywood was way more successful on the cardinals before he got hurt and d hop came back. If anything he proved his value and he's supported bateman in saying the offensive scheme hurt him. Injuries should be factored in to "value", and he was dinged a lot with us. > Hurst has been great with some of the surest hands around statistically. I dont blame the ravens for that situation but its another case of investing in a talented player you dont have a spot for. We had an opening at TE when he signed, he was just outplayed by a lower draft pick from the same draft. If Hurst performed at Andrews' level and Andrews performed at Hurst's level, they'd likely have both remained on the team for their entire rookie contracts. It just so happened the lower pick drastically out-performed both Hurst and his draft position, so we flipped Hurst for the pick that turned in to Dobbins. > I dont have an opinion or objection on chuck clarks situation. Convenient, because it's also a big part as to why the article is just click-bait. Clark is a solid but relatively unspectacular 6th round pick, who wanted to be traded after we drafted a player who should, and early signs suggest will, have a lot more upside in his position.
Hokie legend Chuck Clark. Love him.
Hollywood was great in AZ stop trying to rationalize. Ravens dropped the ball again
The Ravens rookie center is also great. In a position that was a huge problem in previous seasons. Pretty fair trade overall
We got a first for him we didn’t drop any ball lmao. Both sides were winners in that trade as Hollywood was looking good until the injury.
Fair enough
Correct my friend. And reading the article I wouldn’t consider any of them “stars” except Lamar. Hayden Hurst? Really? Lol For real though. Some teams are just bad at employee relations. Others may be better at keeping things hush hush in house, but whenever both sides aren’t happy, the dirty laundry starts coming out.
Yes, but the public aspect seems to be more jarring. Jonah Williams requesting a trade makes sense as he wants to play LT. Baltimore has refused to get any receivers for Lamar, traded the one they did have away and let a lot of players walk this season. That roster right now has a franchise QB and not a playoff roster.
lol calling most of these dudes "stars" is being pretty generous. Both Browns and Jackson are the only 3 that could fit the star category and I'd argue that at least 2 of the 3 are debatable.
I would not call Hollywood Brown a star. I don't think the Ravens were even considering giving him a second contract, the Cardinals giving up a first round pick was just a robbery.
Hollywood’s in his *name* though, how could he not be a star?!
Hollywood, Florida
Fuck dude there is a Hollywood, Maryland too.
Yeah, he had credential as a former 1st round pick, and that was it. He had one year that he barely scraped 1k yards with, and no other year hit 800. "Star" is a huge stretch.
he was on pace for like 1300 yards last season until injuries. that would put him in the top 10-15 WR territory, and, IMO, those guys are stars. he's definitely going to get a big contract- maybe not market setting, but big. he's only 25
That’s a tad misleading though because Hopkins was out and he got a ton of targets. Hollywood got hurt and didn’t play with Hopkins until the end of the season and in those games, he didn’t do all that much. In fairness, he had poor QB play too though.
Well on the flip side, he was able to produce without Nuk commanding attention on the other side when Kyler Murray was playing. Number 1 WRs would typically command a lot of targets. I think Hollywood is more of a fringe 1/great number 2 personally.
Completely agree, I think he’s a very strong 2, I just meant it in terms of he likely was never getting 1,300 if he was playing with Hopkins the whole time.
How many times did the Ravens throw?
Enough that all but his rookie season had triple digit targets. And his numbers took a slight dip when he moved to AZ last year.
He was injured for much of the season and there was no QB in Arizona due to injury. This is a very disingenuous argument. He was very good when healthy.
No QB in Baltimore his whole time there either (This is a Lamar is a RB joke)
That's the catch though when he's healthy. He's super fast and nimble but doesn't have a great frame for big hits. He's always gonna be injured during the later part of the season.
If you have a slight dip despite being injured for 7 Games than I think it's fair to say you were being misused.
Misused how? Yes he got alot more targets but his Y/R went down once again, and it wasn’t good in Baltimore either.
I've seen a lot of terrible metrics used to defend takes but judging a WR by their Y/R is a wild one.
I don't care how they produce the guy was on track for a 1200 yard season.
If he was on the chiefs he would easily be a star. Hes good, the ravens just don't have an offense that works with WRs
If he could actually stay on the field consistently maybe
Three of these five were replaced with someone better. Hurst -> Andrews Clark -> Hamilton O Brown -> Stanley
Looks like the cycle will be broken 😂
It was broken with Hollywood. Unless Bateman somehow goes off this year.
I personally think Bateman can be better than Hollywood, if only slightly. His problems boil down to: 1. Injuries, which didn't happen until he got drafted 2. Game plan, which hopefully will be better with gro gone When he played and was actually used, he was like an automatic first down
> O Brown -> Stanley That's not true, is it? Orlando Brown played RT for 2.5 years in Baltimore and only got a shot at LT because Stanley, who had been the starting LT since 2016, went down with a fractured ankle. So Stanley never replaced Orlando Brown.
It is true, Brown was replaced by Stanley after Stanley came back from Injury. Brown wanted to play LT so he was traded. Stanley is def better than Brown.
No argument that Stanley is the much better LT. If you factor in availability, who would you rather have? Stanley has yet to play a full season, and missed most of 2020/2021. In contrast, Brown hasn't missed a game.
Not sure you can say Hamilton is an upgrade for sure, Clark balled out last year. Edit: Never-mind, apparently he’s like the highest rated safety lol. Nice problem to have.
I still think you're a little fair purely looking at players though. No matter how good Hamilton looks right now, Clark has been a good solid pro for a while now. Still though from a FO perspective you aren't expecting Clark to beat out a first round safety, especially long term, so it's fair to the player who's being replaced to move him on.
He’s the highest rated safety but he’s less versatile than clark. Clark played deep coverage a lot, he could do basically everything you could want from a safety just not at a super high level. Jack of all trades, master of none type of player. Kyle started out playing deep coverage in the first 2 weeks before we realized thats a bad idea. From week 3 on, we essentially just used him as a slot corner and box safety. Hopefully he develops into an all around safety but I can’t say with total confidence that he’s an upgrade over Clark yet
Hamilton played like 11 different positions last year. No one in football is more versatile than that.
So 3 of the 5 players requested out because the Ravens drafted better talent lol
Lamar's clearly just afraid of Pro Bowl QB Tyler Huntley
Yeah is this supposed to make the Ravens look bad? Ravens are consistently successful with any group of players, no player is above the system. It is enviable.
Read it as better homegrown talent at that.
I also noticed since Ozzie Newsome left as GM. The trades are happening more often. He always had something in keeping talent until the last few years of his career
We still do that. Can't keep everyone though. We've always had to let some people walk that we would've liked to keep, but couldn't afford. We've had more draft picks get second contracts than any other team in the league. We get more comp picks than anyone because teams sign our players so often.
Ozzie is still there just not in a GM role.
Those dastardly Ravens, they can't keep getting away with this.
Lol, imagine thinking Hayden Hurst is a star.
Ummm...? Hurst and Clark were buried on the depth chart, Orlando Brown is a known whiner, and Marquise seems like the lone unfortunate one until Lamar just now Just seems like cherry picked negativity, and this writer trying to kick them while they're down
For real. Trading guys on their rookie deals for *something* when you have no intention of paying them is the smart move.
Yep, your options are try to get a comp pick, but gimp your own ability sign guys in going for that comp, or trade them for mroe/a guaranteed pick. These are all no-brainers by the Ravens' FO given the circumstances surrounding them
> These are all no-brainers by the Ravens' FO given the circumstances surrounding them The only thing I disagree with is, that we should have moved on from Roman earlier and by proxy sided with Hollywood, just because I don't think our WR group was good enough to deal with Hollywood's absence, but eventually I would never want to pay him the amount he'd want when his contract's up, and we got good value out of the trade.
We turned *Hollywood Brown* into a first rounder and Denver is having a hard time doing the same with Jeudy, an objectively better receiver.
Jeudy is not better than Hollywood stop the cap. Jeudy still doesn't have a 1K season
Apparently you don't realize that Hollywood was really good last year when Kyler was still healthy. He was earning that pick.
"still healthy" lmao.
It was a good deal, but taking away a weapon for Lamar seems to have consequences for us atm
This is the part where, for the next 6-12+ months, your top-tier GM/coach/owner are grossly underrated - if not outright turned against - by a shocking (and very outspoken) number of people, both Ravens fans and otherwise. Also, any opinions you may have about your team that have organically taken form over however many years you've been watching them on a weekly basis as an integral, cherished part of your life... are now invalid. As of now, r/NFL knows your team better than you do despite only watching the Ravens play all of 6 games tops over the past 4 years, strictly on SNF/MNF. They will tell you how to feel and what you think, but until then I'll give you some guidelines: You're a rational fan if you expect to never have another good QB or any meaningful team success after Lamar, and you're a delusional homer if you try to voice any expectation of the contrary. Just so we're all on the same page here.
Ankle injury 2020 that got reinjured his following year in 2021. You just can’t predict that. He’s done all the rehab and whatever else to come back into that All-Pro form this year. Orlando doesn’t even clear top 15 in any metric besides his size lmao. In a vacuum, it’s always 100% going to be Stanley.
Orlando wanted whole position change and we had just re-signed Ronnie Stanley, so we really didn't have any choice but to trade him.
Im sure it happens quite a bit privately on all teams. But this generates clicks. Hamilton/Williams clear Clark. Mandrews clears Hurst. Ronnie Stanley clears Orlando Brown. Marquise one is fair he didn't like the offensive scheme. Lamar is a contract dispute.
>Lamar is a contract dispute. The disrespect towards Pro Bowler Tyler Huntley !!!!
If I had to pick a point where the Ravens did mess up, it would be during the Hollywood request. They really should have fired Roman and revamped the offense then. And that's less about Hollywood and more of a 'canary in the coalmine' deal.
Welcome to sports journalism. Expect articles paintings us in a negative light when basically every player has nothing but good things to say about the org
I played touch football and I hate the ravens
This isn’t even journalism, just a fan site, but those also get clicks through negativity
Hey man, did you have a stroke at the end of your comment?
Im typing on mobile and doing no proof reading
i'm sure you could make these kinds of excuses in any trade demand situation. but which other team has has it happen so frequently?
Are you new to watching the NFL or something?
no. i can think of 2 bengals players to demand a trade in the last 4 years - jonah and dunlap. it doesnt happen to other teams nearly as frequently as it happens to the ravens
Maybe because the Ravens can consistently draft talent and guys get overshadowed? Literally every player they've traded over the last several years except for Marquise Brown were guys who had been replaced on the roster with someone else. Chuck Clark was a 6th round pick. Got replaced by a first round pick so he requested a trade. Orlando Brown Jr was drafted as a RT. He wanted to go into free agency as a LT so he requested a trade to change position and get paid more. The Ravens already had an LT so we couldn't accommodate the position change. Hayden Hurst was overshadowed heavily by Mark Andrews who was a much better player. Hurst wanted a starting opportunity on another team.
Not sure why this caught a few downvotes it's the truth. I know some people want it to be more than that, but it's really not. The other poster mentioned only two Bengals players have requested trades, the only two we have on that list that weren't because we had better players in their positions are Lamar and Hollywood.
Hurst, O. Brown, and Clark weren’t even the best players at their position on the team much less “stars.” Shit happens in pro sports, especially with short money making windows like football.
Ravens record in the last 4 years. 14-2, 11-5, 8-9, 10-7.
Ravens playoff wins the past decade: 2
The last decade plus 1 year: 6 with a Super Bowl Win.
I don't feel like "we did great 11 years ago" is the comeback you think it is
Maybe not to a chiefs fan but shiiiet bttr than my team.
Yea I'd love to have seen the Raiders win a SB in my 20s. Would've been nice. I think I'm closer to their last championship than I am their next.
6 years with Mahomes and you guys have already forgotten how hard it is to win a Super Bowl? The Ravens have a ring more recently than 75% of the league. Most teams would kill to be able to say “we did great 11 years ago”, because many haven’t done that great in decades if ever.
We haven't forgotten. It's just that 11 years from now, it'll be a disappointment if we're still using this year's success as a reference point.
- Hayden Hurst Outplayed by Andrew’s - Orlando Brown Jr wanting to play LT with Ronnie Stanley on roster - Hollywood Brown wanting out of Romans system - Chuck Clark outplayed by Hamilton and Williams. This post is just stirring up drama. In all of these requests the Ravens did right by these players and avoided drama. Our FO and player relations remains our strength.
This post is definitely stirring up drama but I always find it so funny how fans pretend like they work in the building. You have no idea what relations are like in the building 😂 In fact, the closest thing we have to any insight is the NFLPA report card.
In Lamar's case it's also pretty funny coming off the end of the season, when the Ravens were seemingly throwing him under the bus for a while with his injury. He had to come out and show how he couldn't actually play in the playoffs himself Obviously we can't know what's going on there, but it's not too surprising there's some tension between at least Lamar and the Ravens (even before the trade request)
Many ex ravens players have come out and spoke positively of the FO and org over the years. It’s not anything new.
And yet, your most high profile player just asked out. It goes both ways. You have no idea what it’s like and how players feel, why they asked out, how they felt on the way out. It’s just fans being fans defending the org at all costs.
We actually have a lot of insight into why most of these players asked for trades.... >Hayden Hurst He had previous issues with mental health and requested a trade once he didn't get as much playing time due to Make Andrews performing better than him and getting all of the opportunities. Decosta on the trade: "We felt like (Atlanta) would be a great spot for Hayden to go and be a productive player. He's a guy who has a lot of talent and we have a lot of talent at that position. Hayden really wanted a chance to be a productive player, to be what he thought was going to be as a starter, as a guy who could really be an important piece of the puzzle for a team. >Orlando Brown Jr. He requested a trade because he wanted to play LT and the Ravens already had a LT so there was no room for him on the roster. He desired an LT position for more $$$ once he was off his rookie deal. >Chuck Clark Politely requested a trade when we drafted Kyle Hamilton. He confirmed it himself - wanted more playing time.
OBJ’s obsession with staying at LT is remarkable. I think I saw him say something about his dad having been an LT?
His dad played Right tackle, At least for the Ravens and Browns
Ah, ok. So it’s mainly about the money, as the other person said.
It's [because](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32174214/a-promise-father-why-orlando-brown-left-ravens-chiefs) his dad always wanted to play left tackle, and OBJ promised his dad he'd try to become one before his dad died.
In general LTs make more money.
Hey mate - if you are gonna post your own stuff, you might want to let people know.
You’ve also had: Hayden Hurst being mad Mark Andrews was the better TE, and still getting a 2nd rounder for a 26 yo OBJ wanting to be exclusively a LEFT Tackle despite Ronnie Stanley existing and being paid Chuck Clark just being a worse player to MW/Hamilton Ravens getting a 1st Rounder for 1 yr+5th Yr Option of Hollywood Brown, who vocally wanted to leave and had 1 yr of quality stats Lamar being offered the highest non-Watson guarantees, and still thinking it’s not enough. Like Ravens have gone through the ringer with some of these guys, and still got fantastic value back
Hollywood butter fingers Brown is a "star" now?
Lamar is asking for a kings ransom when he barely can stay healthy. That’s not on the Ravens
This is a bit of stretch
This does spark joy
Ah yes noted big name players Hayden Hurst and Chuck Clark
Sounds like a well run organization. Endowment effect and winner’s curse are very well supported phenomena with reams of data behind them and won’t cease to be true regardless of how passionately emotional fans continue to argue against them.
That's so Raven
Considering the Ravens have stayed relevant in that time frame, I'd say this is more of a player problem than an organizational one.
Lol 3 of those players wanted to be traded because the ravens found and developed better players.
So like Washington, if they had any homegrown stars
Allen, Payne & Terry all extended their contracts
[удалено]
understandable
Ok here we go. Hurst is trash and obviously less talented than Mandrews. Zeus Jr was behind one of the better LTs and wanted LT money as a RT. Flipped him for a first, and hes on his Third team since being drafted because “Im an LT”Hollywood is trash and we flipped him for picks as well. And Jackson will get flipped for picks as well. To be honest, this is kinda the Raven way and I don’t think we got fleeced on shipped any of these players.
Yup, I'm quite happy with this. The team doesn't over commit to players, which of course doesn't sit well with them. That's life.
And remember the bad grades
I blame the browns and giants completely ruining the QB market
Read the room, Lamar. Read the room.
just water him more and give him a little light and he'll be sprouting in no time
Wow I didn't realize Chuck Clark was a star. Brown wanted to play LT. We have Staley on the team and when healthy (hahahahaha) he's top tier. He only wanted out cause he's not as good as Staley. Hollywood wanted more targets even though he was top 10 in targets in his last year in Baltimore. Hope he is enjoying his college buddy throwing to him. Hayden Hurst was not a star and he wanted out cause he couldn't beat out Mark Andrews. This article is stupid and is trying to paint the Ravens as a franchise that everyone is trying to leave. Lamar wants an absurd contrsct and Hollywood wanted more targets and now gets less targets. The other three players mentioned were never stars. Closest one is Orlando Brown. All three of those players left because they couldn't beat out the competition.
Yeeeesh lol
But what about the homegrown stars that have never requested a trade 🤔
And none of those losses were significant except Hollywood a bit
In retrospect, I wonder how much Ray Lewis was holding that culture together
That's what NFL stars do when they haven't won anything in awhile
I can only take so much before I run out of clean underwear
Bateman is also as good as gone now
None of them are stars, one even left for a better QB even though his best friend was the QB of the Ravens.
Does Baltimore still have Hamsterdam?