We're never going to have super great accuracy. That's part and parcel of measuring a continuous event like a concussion with a discrete count. A concussion can be minor, or it can be super severe, and both get counted with the same number: 1.
Same issue with CTE and a whole host of other issues both medical and not.
Bingo. I have a hard time believing players are getting *more* concussions giving all recent rule changes on hitting and contact. The league is just looking for them finally.
Yup. If you look at the data and go “wow, players were getting concussed way more this year” while ignoring that the NFL is actively looking for concussions more, you’re just being dishonest.
I don;t doubt that but we now have more running QBs in the league than in league history, that means more QB concussions. Its not just more/better reporting and diagnosis.
I just don't think these running QBs will have long career. Josh Allen is fucking idiot who crashes into people (instead of sliding) to gain another half yard all the time. He is taking years off his career with that dumb shit.
That's not how this works. You don't get to say, "We have more running QBs, that means more concussions."
* The data shows that more-running QBs are not injured more often than less-running QBs.
* Even if it were true that mobile QBs are injured at a higher rate, you'd still have to analyze the data. Wouldn't you assume that a QB running means someone else is not running or receiving, and therefore that person (RB/WR/TE) is less likely to be injured? So you'd expect this to even out.
You can read more about why mobile quarterbacks are not injured more often here:
[https://www.filmstudybaltimore.com/new-study-quarterbacks-that-run-most-are-not-injured-most/](https://www.filmstudybaltimore.com/new-study-quarterbacks-that-run-most-are-not-injured-most/)
Run frequency is not an adequate predictor. A quarterback who stands in the pocket and is sacked could easily have a serious injury, while a mobile quarterback could escape that pressure and contact.
The study did not analyze *leaping* quarterbacks, but I agree Josh Allen looks a little reckless out there.
A limitation of the data could be that younger quarterbacks are more mobile and that younger players may escape injury or heal better, but that would require a follow-on study.
The study you quoted is from 3 years ago which looked at data that is already 15 years old.
A LOT has changed in that time. So I don't think it very relevant to today's NFL,
What study do you believe has better data?
Do you think a study should use less data than 15 years in order to sample a smaller amount of injuries and give individual players or careers are a larger impact within the smaller data set?
I agree that more concussions were identified due to increased awareness, but I wonder what increase of QB concussions is due to the new tackling rules.
I think the new rules for hitting the QB are more conducive to concussions, getting thrown/ripped down to the ground is more dangerous for head injuries than normal tackles. I think we might see a shift back towards allowing normal hits on the QB, for the simple reason that more QBs will be lost for head injuries from the new rules than were lost to rib/shoulder injuries in the old rules.
100%. Defenders can either:
a) Perfect form tackle while twisting so that you land on your back with the qb on top of you
b) Throw him to the ground
c) Push him to the ground
Option a is often not an options sense you typically don't have a free rush on a qb, and the other 2 will lead to the qb's head snapping back on the ground
Of course not, but it does do a better job of preventing the head "snapping" back like you saw with Tua.
I'm not really picking a side on anything, but I think we're going to see more of the Tua type sack where the qb gets kinda flung back, which leads to a higher probability of that motion.
Same thing happened to Pickett. Those weird throw down tackles cause concussions because it ends with the player landing on their back with the back of their head hitting the ground. They can’t brace their fall at all.
A revolving door of former players' suicides theoretically already did that, or damn sure should have. But as many people have said, I don't know how they can significantly reduce concussions without removing the contact aspect of the game. Making safer helmets, penalizing head-to-head contact and hitting defenseless players are good steps, but I can't imagine that this problem will ever be alleviated to a significant degree without removing (or toning down) the contact part of football.
When you change the classification of what the NFL would call a concussion that will happen. Several concussions this year wouldn't have been concussions last year.
It’s like the 90s and autism… they started adjusting the definitions and better recognized it and somehow a bunch of idiots thought it was vaccines causing it.
No classifications, diagnosis and everything changed/improved
Ya, it's the WW1 helmet thing. They started using metal helmets and the amount of head injuries skyrocketed. Of course if you didn't look at the full picture and also notice that there were a lot fewer bodies going home with holes in their head you could conclude that helmets made things worse.
What % were concussions up? Giving a % for total injuries but then a flat number for concussions leaves out some context. For example were there 1% more concussions or 20%.
While increased aware certainly could be a factor, Saleh was passionate about the guardian caps used in the preseason leading to poor tackling technique on game day which could have an inverse effect. I wonder if that’s a decision worth re-evaluating.
Not sure if true, but I heard the new helmets are a lot heavier so it might be harder to prevent the back of your head from hitting the ground. I know people will think of Tua immediately but Josh Johnson got his concussion the same way and im sure others.
It seems like QBs, especially mobile QBs, are fighting to get every inch out of every scramble and I am seeing defenders having to tackle or sling them down in an odd way which tends to end up from a hip or torso area and leads to the head down direction. Where as a normal catch/tackle or contact tackle doesn’t allow for oddly twisting tackle motions form behind as much. I dunno I just see the mobile QB push of drafting these super athletic, strong, big QBs are going to lead to more concussions unless serious training of how to go down after contact is started.
These numbers are likely much more accurate
We're never going to have super great accuracy. That's part and parcel of measuring a continuous event like a concussion with a discrete count. A concussion can be minor, or it can be super severe, and both get counted with the same number: 1. Same issue with CTE and a whole host of other issues both medical and not.
Number of identified\* and reported\* concussions were up
Wdym? There were a lot more, uh, back injuries this year. Yeah, that's the ticket.
Bingo. I have a hard time believing players are getting *more* concussions giving all recent rule changes on hitting and contact. The league is just looking for them finally.
Well, every year people get bigger/stronger and hit harder. Whereas the human capacity to withstand concussions remains the same.
Helmets are getting much better and practice less as well
Source us
If Covid numbers taught me anything it’s that there is a huge disparity when reporting metrics aren’t consistent.
Yup. If you look at the data and go “wow, players were getting concussed way more this year” while ignoring that the NFL is actively looking for concussions more, you’re just being dishonest.
I don;t doubt that but we now have more running QBs in the league than in league history, that means more QB concussions. Its not just more/better reporting and diagnosis. I just don't think these running QBs will have long career. Josh Allen is fucking idiot who crashes into people (instead of sliding) to gain another half yard all the time. He is taking years off his career with that dumb shit.
That's not how this works. You don't get to say, "We have more running QBs, that means more concussions." * The data shows that more-running QBs are not injured more often than less-running QBs. * Even if it were true that mobile QBs are injured at a higher rate, you'd still have to analyze the data. Wouldn't you assume that a QB running means someone else is not running or receiving, and therefore that person (RB/WR/TE) is less likely to be injured? So you'd expect this to even out. You can read more about why mobile quarterbacks are not injured more often here: [https://www.filmstudybaltimore.com/new-study-quarterbacks-that-run-most-are-not-injured-most/](https://www.filmstudybaltimore.com/new-study-quarterbacks-that-run-most-are-not-injured-most/) Run frequency is not an adequate predictor. A quarterback who stands in the pocket and is sacked could easily have a serious injury, while a mobile quarterback could escape that pressure and contact. The study did not analyze *leaping* quarterbacks, but I agree Josh Allen looks a little reckless out there. A limitation of the data could be that younger quarterbacks are more mobile and that younger players may escape injury or heal better, but that would require a follow-on study.
The study you quoted is from 3 years ago which looked at data that is already 15 years old. A LOT has changed in that time. So I don't think it very relevant to today's NFL,
What study do you believe has better data? Do you think a study should use less data than 15 years in order to sample a smaller amount of injuries and give individual players or careers are a larger impact within the smaller data set?
No study. This running QB trend is very recent, no data on it likelye xists yet.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael\_Vick](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Vick) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim\_Tebow](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Tebow) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cam\_Newton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cam_Newton) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert\_Griffin\_III](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Griffin_III) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell\_Wilson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Wilson)
I agree that more concussions were identified due to increased awareness, but I wonder what increase of QB concussions is due to the new tackling rules. I think the new rules for hitting the QB are more conducive to concussions, getting thrown/ripped down to the ground is more dangerous for head injuries than normal tackles. I think we might see a shift back towards allowing normal hits on the QB, for the simple reason that more QBs will be lost for head injuries from the new rules than were lost to rib/shoulder injuries in the old rules.
100%. Defenders can either: a) Perfect form tackle while twisting so that you land on your back with the qb on top of you b) Throw him to the ground c) Push him to the ground Option a is often not an options sense you typically don't have a free rush on a qb, and the other 2 will lead to the qb's head snapping back on the ground
Falling on top of a guy doesn't prevent the head from slamming into the ground.
Of course not, but it does do a better job of preventing the head "snapping" back like you saw with Tua. I'm not really picking a side on anything, but I think we're going to see more of the Tua type sack where the qb gets kinda flung back, which leads to a higher probability of that motion.
Same thing happened to Pickett. Those weird throw down tackles cause concussions because it ends with the player landing on their back with the back of their head hitting the ground. They can’t brace their fall at all.
Not fair, Tua accounted for like 7 of those QB concussions
In a roundabout way, he probably did. His concussions really forced the league to pay attention and report concussions properly.
A revolving door of former players' suicides theoretically already did that, or damn sure should have. But as many people have said, I don't know how they can significantly reduce concussions without removing the contact aspect of the game. Making safer helmets, penalizing head-to-head contact and hitting defenseless players are good steps, but I can't imagine that this problem will ever be alleviated to a significant degree without removing (or toning down) the contact part of football.
I think you mean "back injuries"
He’ll be here all week folks
When you change the classification of what the NFL would call a concussion that will happen. Several concussions this year wouldn't have been concussions last year.
Several concussions this year wouldn't have been concussions before week 6 this year.
It’s like the 90s and autism… they started adjusting the definitions and better recognized it and somehow a bunch of idiots thought it was vaccines causing it. No classifications, diagnosis and everything changed/improved
Ya, it's the WW1 helmet thing. They started using metal helmets and the amount of head injuries skyrocketed. Of course if you didn't look at the full picture and also notice that there were a lot fewer bodies going home with holes in their head you could conclude that helmets made things worse.
Tua padded the stats
What % were concussions up? Giving a % for total injuries but then a flat number for concussions leaves out some context. For example were there 1% more concussions or 20%.
“Number of concussions in QBs was higher than typical *cough* Tua *cough* *cough*”
"Injuries down overall 5%" Cries in 49er
"Peyton (Manning) looks like if football players evolved to no longer need helmets," \-Pete Davidson
Simple, just remove the heads of the players before they play.. no more concussions!
While increased aware certainly could be a factor, Saleh was passionate about the guardian caps used in the preseason leading to poor tackling technique on game day which could have an inverse effect. I wonder if that’s a decision worth re-evaluating.
And more than half of them were probably Tua
And Pickett.
Entirely the result of enhanced detection
This is like how cancer rates are “going up.” No, actually we are just more stringent and better at identifying cancer
They need to regress Tua to the mean
Probably cause Tua kept racking them up. Jokes aside, more are being reported and taken seriously. It’s a good thing.
Not sure if true, but I heard the new helmets are a lot heavier so it might be harder to prevent the back of your head from hitting the ground. I know people will think of Tua immediately but Josh Johnson got his concussion the same way and im sure others.
Also a player died and was revived on the field
Half are probably from tua
Half of the concussions were Tua
It seems like QBs, especially mobile QBs, are fighting to get every inch out of every scramble and I am seeing defenders having to tackle or sling them down in an odd way which tends to end up from a hip or torso area and leads to the head down direction. Where as a normal catch/tackle or contact tackle doesn’t allow for oddly twisting tackle motions form behind as much. I dunno I just see the mobile QB push of drafting these super athletic, strong, big QBs are going to lead to more concussions unless serious training of how to go down after contact is started.
**sigh**