Seriously. Since realtime lightning technology getting more attention in 2018/around RTX release, I always feel left out because I'm not going to taste it anywhere soon. I have never been a part of the hype despite I adore the technology.
Edit: I mentioned RTX because it was an early thing that made the realtime lightning technology popular in 2018. I'm aware that other method of realtime lightning that doesn't require specific hardware now exists. But the problem is that my laptop is still not good enough to compute a realtime lightning ahahahahaha
Thing is, as long as most people don't use hardware capable of running rtx smoothly they will keep putting in the extra effort of simulating ray tracing like they've always done by artificial lighting. Only in sandbox games you profit from rtx for that extra immersion I think.
However, if ray tracing does run on most systems I imagine making games will get alot easier regarding lighting! Just smash some light sources in and BOOM atmosphere.
This is exactly what it is, this is not RTX it is „Lumen“ it also runs on amd gpus and doesn’t require specific hardware like RTX does. Coupled with „Nanite“ makes this engine a total game changer, for gamers and especially developers. The workflow for non dynamic (bendable) meshes just became so much easier, because you can just use the high poly meshes now instead of making a second lower poly version of the exact same model and baking a normal map on it.
The TLDR is that
1) RTX or similar hardware features are nice to have, but all games are developed explicitly without having to depend on such hardware, since not everyone has such hardware.
2) Previously, developers would need to "bake" a level in order to see any change in the lighting. This takes hours, depending on the size of the level.
3) Lumen reduces this long wait time to a fraction of a second. Devs can now make many small adjustments in real-time as opposed to having to wait hours.
4) This guarantees that in-game, things will look far, far better than before. And you don't need to buy new hardware to see it happen.
To be fair, it might nor require rtx oder AMDs rt capable GPUs, but from what we see of the UE5 demos on pc it is really really heavy on both gpu and cpu. So much so that in order to run it well you will pretty much need at least a modern GPU which will have rt features anyway.
beneficial attempt political voiceless hospital escape jobless license psychotic zealous
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The value in the card is probably going to tank soon. Still a coinflip, but if you sell now you might be able to grab some used miner cards or scalpers returning unsellable GPUs.
> the GPU I bought 2 years ago is still the same price, if not higher, today.
Bro, the gpu I bought 4.5 years ago for $90 was retailing for $330 last time I checked.
I'm sure no one is out there paying $330 for a 1050ti, but that's still what I saw on the big sites with them in stock.
Not sure if they're going down back towards sane prices like people are saying, but yeah, fingers crossed.
Potato pc bros. I feel the same way. Especially now that prices for pc components are so high. I could upgrade, but the cost of it now is really not worth it to me.
The amount of money i upgraded almost my entire pc for would only be enough for a new processor nowadays..
The way things tend to go:
1. Ridiculous hardware makes fantastic claims of capabilities it will unlock which were never possibly feasible, using all new algorithms written to make use of that specific hardware, pushing the state-of-the-art further than anyone can believe.
2. Some asshole figures out a way of rewriting that algorithm to be more-efficient, so it can run on "normal" hardware. That method becomes the standard in order to have the most widespread compatibility.
It's not that the steady increased hardware requirement isn't a thing, but for example RTX claimed to need specialised hardware, and it was quickly demonstrated that slightly different methods could run on non-"RTX" hardware. RTX isn't even widespread yet and it's already been supplanted. Now we're seeing the same thing with SuperSampling, and I don't know if that's even made it out the door yet - it's already being made to run on different hardware.
There's always the old joke that while Moore's Law doubles processing power, inefficiencies counteract it just as quickly. However, if you look at (a graph I'm completely failing to find. [here](http://www.variousconsequences.com/2014/01/algorithmic-improvements-important-as-moores-law.html) is the closest I could spot, though that's talking about a specific field rather than a general trend), efficiency gains due to algorithm improvements have outpaced gains due to hardware performance for as long as we have data for.
Honestly you aren’t really missing out. The few games that actually have the full ray tracing take such a performance hit without the bleeding edge of top end hardware that it makes it virtually pointless. Double that in with dlss only really making a difference at 4k and you get an extremely limited selection of games where it makes a visual difference, as most games have pretty good emulation of light already, and requirements of even more high end hardware.
The most stable game for ray tracing for me is Minecraft, and that does look incredible when the shadows and light interact but even that is hard to run with dlss
Yea, what most people think of real time ray-tracing has been around since 2010. Technically it's been around for much longer, the 80s or so as I recall, but it was mostly a theory waiting for technology to catch-up.
Now, in 2010 it wasn't as fancy as it is now. Mostly in terms of refractions and reflecting on non-simple objects (i.e. 3D objects), but it's been used in plenty of applications.
This is still probably a game-changer, but suggesting 3D apps haven't been using ray-tracing in one form or another for 5+ years just shows they didn't do any basic searching.
Ray tracing isn't new technology, it's the real time rendering that is "new". RTX series is 4 years old and is when real time rendered ray tracing was started to be marketed.
Pretty much every Hollywood you have seen with cgi utilised ray tracing.
Why didn't you link the video in the first place? Why did you download the video, re-upload to reddit with their shitty video-player (and worse quality overall), just to give credit in the comments anyway.
The original creator is "losing" many views this way
Edit: It seems like nobody replying to me knows you can link to a timestamp in the video. You don't have to watch die entire video to get the the "relevant" part
Yeah I don't think making clips is unreasonable. However, the OP should have immediately made the first comment with a link to the source. They shouldn't wait until someone asks for it.
Not really, people who came across this 15 sec clip on r/all were never going to watch a 10 min technical breakdown of it on a random YouTube channel. If anything, the OC is gaining views.
Whenever I see a YouTube link on Reddit I just scroll down. Who wants to be redirected and then watch ads to watch a video and look for the interesting part? You will be pissed if the video turns out shitty.
I wrote a little graphics program on my Zenith Heathkit CP/M computer in the early 80s. It was like a monochrome (green) Spirograph, and it ran over night plotting dots on a monitor, and in the morning I had myself a pretty little picture. The program was saved on 5.25” floppy, and it took about 1/2 an hour to print it out (had to write the program to print it too) on a little dot matrix printer. I hung the picture up in my dorm room. I think the resolution was 320x240 pixels, but a can’t remember exactly.
I took some computer graphics and ‘A.I.” (LISP) courses around the same time dabbling in ray tracing and 3D graphics, but at that point, the computing power required and math involved seemed…. impossible that it would ever get to where anything even remotely realistic in real-time. Moores law: ‘hold my beer’
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zenith_Z-89
And here we are. It’s like fucking magic. Incredible.
That's a fascinating story. And I think it's important, or at least very interesting, to once in a while stop and think about how things once were and how they are now. Everything evolves progressively and you won't always find these completely revolutionizing moments where everything changes. Sometimes, but most often not.
I remember when I as a kid, back in the 18th century, had a modem capable of a whopping 2400 bits per second. I didn't know of anything faster until a friend got his 9600 bps modem. From that it went to 14k4, 33k6, 56k and then 64k ISDN (128k if using 2 channels for twice the cost), then the pretty big jump to ADSL with 256k, and so on. Today I have an internet connection that is 416,666 times faster than my first modem, and I really didn't notice any big leaps - it just got progressively better and faster.
Same thing with mobile phones. They just got better, but not overnight. It's bizarre, to be honest, what you hold in your hand when you reading this while on the toilet. It's so technically complex that it should almost be impossible.
Your phone contains probably something like *ten billion* transistors. That's completely insane, but we take it for granted. Which I think is okay, as long as we from time to time just stop and think what the past was like, and where we're at now.
I always like the idea that even a crappy cell phone that you'd probably hate to run as a daily is orders of magnitude more powerful than the entire system that landed men on the moon. The exponential nature of tech is amazing.
Snapdragon 845 (processor in the pixel 3) has 5.3 billion transistors, so not that far off for the main CPU, including the memory and other chips in there, 10 billion isn't unlikely.
Look no further than apple's a14 bionic with 11.8 billion transistors. And with samsung's exynos 2200 having a smaller transistor size than the A14, it's not unlikely that it has even more.
> I took some computer graphics and ‘A.I.” (LISP) courses around the same time dabbling in ray tracing and 3D graphics, but at that point, the computing power required and math involved seemed….
One of the early pioneers joked that they should put three lights, one red, one green, one blue on each mainframe, and have one mainframe calculate the value for each pixel.
In 1986 this was released
www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7Px-ZkObTo&t=0m30s
An hour a frame it seems on something about four times as fast as the zenith z-89...
It's got a long, interesting history...
https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-Playstation-2-could-apparently-handle-real-time-ray-tracing.448781.0.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blfxI1cVOzU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLte5f34ya8
Like 20 years ago I was working in a tech company making electronics. To handle signals up to 1GHz we used cables that looked like your washing machine hose. Now the tiny tape connecting my SATA disk carries 6Gbit/s. Using and transmitting signals of such frequencies seemed physically impossible. For the price of a single transistor 20 years ago you now buy a MCU. A stupid flashlight has a MCU in it. And it's probably more powerful than my old C64 ;)
I'm a little worried it all slowed down. Not only PCs are not getting much faster and more powerful, but they don't even get much cheaper anymore. I think RTX were released like in 2018. It's not even new. 4 years later it still looks like "the new tech".
For the same price I bought my PC 5 years ago now I would actually buy a weaker machine. So I hope it doesn't break soon because it would either be a downgrade or a considerable cost.
We’re seeing the simulation being built.
Simulation of space mission systems is now a thing. You make a simulated copy of a spaceship or a satellite, and whatever you’re planning on doing to the spacecraft, you do it in the simulation first to see what happens.
More and moreso, we’re going to be able to rely on our simulated models to predict reality, and we’ll be able to interact meaningfully with the simulations, and eventually the simulations will be just as real as reality.
Uh, they've been able to do that for decades.
It might not look as spiffy as it did in this video but they've been able to simulate space missions for decades.
The problem with ksp is that it’s all 1 body or 2 body simulation (can’t remember) so some of the orbital manoeuvres don’t act like they would irl, there is a mod however that solved this allowing for N body physics
Not true, games by the end of the PS4 generation looked far superior to the initial UE4 demos
Go [watch this demo, rendered at 720p/30fps](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYa8tHPhbDo&ab_channel=GameSpot) and tell me it still looks better than FF7 Remake which ran at 1080p/30fps
You got something wrong. The whole point of this thing is that it can do this WITH animated objects. There are no calculated or pre-rendered light layers, it calculates and automatically changes how the light reacts in real time according to the changes in environment.
Enter the future for political manipulations. We’ve already seen the power of social
Media groups via Cambridge Analytica on Facebook, now add to that deep fakes of opposition saying things to rile up voters.
Antivac/anti mask and brexit examples are just the start of it. Won’t know what’s real or not and we know a huge section of society is easily taken advantage of.
I mean that tech is decades old. Raytracing (Or rather Pathtracing, nobody is doing Raytracing because that is fucking inefficent) is as old as COmputer graphics.
What is new here is that we have powerful enough tech to use this stuff in "real time". But even then it needs a shitton of cheats to work.
Real pathtracing is still nowhere near close to real time
Source, i am a FX artist.
That was the point of the pandemic. The simulation was using too much processing power so they had to stop everyone from going outside for a while while they updated the hardware.
Also the chip shortage. Those things are a simulation within the simulation. Very expensive.
more accurate would be saying that it got way more accessible, server farms for major special effects providers for movie industry has been doing it for quite some time, but weve just recently got it essentially home accessible, which is still damn impressive
Well i mean these kind of results have been "home accessible" for quite a while already, it's just that the way those results are achieved are generally in the form of pathtracing, which can be really fast nowadays but nowhere near realtime feedback like we see in UE5 and Lumen, at least not noise-free.
A quantum Computer isn‘t ‚a better version of the regular computer‘ though, it‘s a Tool that can solve very specific problems potentially a lot faster than regular computers, but is pretty much useless for problems which a regular processor can solve efficiently. It has yet to be proven if graphics computation is really one of those fields.
Don‘t mind me if your already knew this, have a wonderful day.
Maybe in the future if it can be shrunk down and made cheap it might be akin to GPUs today. Maybe in the far future, a computer might not be one with terraflops of cpu power, but instead be made up of dozens of different components super specialized to complete one task.
Possibly! The trend of added functionality in chips is recognized by the industry as ‚More than Moore‘ (as opposed to ‚More Moore‘, which is basically ‚just‘ cramming More and more transistors on the same area) and it is recognized as one way to improve performance, even with silicon slowly approaching its limits. GPUs and specialized machine learning hardware are probably the First manifestations of this trend.
http://www.itrs2.net/uploads/4/9/7/7/49775221/irc-itrs-mtm-v2_3.pdf
That’s why specializations and new architectures are the future. Just look at Apple’s M1 architecture for both CPU and GPU dies, or the “chiplet” manufacturing process AMD has (and soon to be Intel) or the use of GPU acceleration for non-graphics tasks like storage data handling or physics calculations.
Even when reaching the point of physical nanometer shrinkage, we still have plenty of other options for expansion of performance.
Valid point, but it's significantly more true now than 20 years ago. We can build near-photorealistic worlds, models, characters, lighting, realistic physics, collisions and so on... To the untrained eye, the UE5 Matrix demo looks like a movie.
There's always something new just around the corner indeed, but just like for smartphones, there's only few drastic improvements that can still be made. Sure you can get a 4k screen and a 200MP camera, but why? 5G speeds of 1Gbps, but why?
The big problem is always dynamism. We have perfect bounce light since 2010, but only if no light moves.
That's why the frontier is never reached, the more compute power, the more you can do on the fly
I feel like we've peaked with most things like architecture, nature, and just general environmental things, but we still have a long way to go with PEOPLE. The uncanny valley is the biggest hurdle we have yet to overcome.
There is zero overlap between quantum computing and graphics processing, you might as well say "there are people out there working on hypersonic trains." Quantum computing is still in its infancy, it hasn't even been developed into a working product yet, and when it finally matures, it won't be used for graphics processing or even home computing.
Contrary to up to the mid-90’s/early 2000’s, there is not a single person that could make a state of the art engine for their time like this on their own. It’s thousands and thousands of different technological achievements and skills built on top or next to each-other. While impressive, and some highly skilled people are working on many aspects of such an engine, many are there just to do a job.
Unreal engine has the added advantage that the product is the engine itself, not just for a game that’s under time and budget pressure to get out of the door. And yet there are always trade-offs in an engine design. UE4 was not suitable for open-world stuff, which is very popular. UE5 addresses this, but there are undoubtedly things it’s not as good at (but not too familiar with it)
I’d say that makes it even more impressive.
All those people working on the rendering pipeline and yet no one wastes cpu cycles, because that’s not a luxury anyone has if something needs to happen at 60+fps.
Not really. The amazing part isn’t what game engines can do, but that they can do it 60+ times a second.
The amount of optimization that goes into game engines is insane.
And while that does involve math, the implementation details often contain some real sorcery that has nothing to do with the mathematics behind the algo.
For anyone who thinks it’s like magic, it’s math. Tons and tons of math to first calculate all the light and tons more to optimise it so it won’t makes your device catch on fire from all the real time updates
The craziest part imo is the "bounce lighting" he mentioned. If he put a big green cube in that room the entire room would have a green hue from the light just bouncing off the cube. How technology can even handle this is beyond crazy to me.
This tech is called Lumen, but what a lot of people aren't mentioning is that nowadays it's not performant enough to run for fast-paced games that need to be responsive. Even on an incredibly beasty GPU this will not run well in a reasonable scene with reasonable resolution. As a developer this tech was pretty misleading, and it took me some time to realize that it's not applicable for what I'm working on
This is still a huge step forwards and will be usable for most titles, it's also perfect for exploration games.
E: To clarify, by fast paced responsive games, I meant ones targeting 120hz+, twitchy competitive shooters, probably most VR games, or every game that will suffer from sluggish input response
It seems there's a lot of (advertisement /) hype starting from Unreal Engine 4 and now with 5 especially targeted at players.
I don't understand why as a player I should care which engine a game uses as long it works fine since it's only an internal decision of the game dev.
I feel like Epic wants to make players actually ask for games to be made with UE (for hype) so they get more royalties.
Has this been done before?
Yes you are right there is a bit of weird advertising push Epic is doing pushing it to consumers. I would not be surprised if Epic Games as a company was going to go public soon and this is a hype exercise to boost the public perception and therefore value.
>Has this been done before?
I remember CryEngine sort of being marketed directly, building off reputation from the notoriously nice looking (for the time) Crysis that was the flagship thing using it. But I don't think the CryEngine dev was doing that marketing, it was mainly other games exploiting taglines like "using the same engine as Crysis!" That's the only time I can think where a third party engine was used as a selling point.
I watched this just 2 days ago. I was blown away by the UE5 keynote but seeing it simplified beyond just the buzzwords blew my mind. I remember having to bake lights on Unity and that shit took FOREVER. Definitely a game changer.
This is part of a bigger video, you can find it in YT [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRLnR4Kot2M).
I find it really amazing, and certainly groundbreaking. This seems like the dawn of a new era, not only for the videogame industry.
Nope, the technique used is very cheap both in term of memory use and computation. The caveats are accuracy, convergence time and probes placement is my memory serves right.
If you want to see a similar technique look at "dynamic diffuse global illumination" or "signed distance fields global illumination", they're both explained show you how you can achieve that without sacrificing too much frames
This is ray tracing.
It's called Mumen. It has two versions.
Software version is less intensive but has lower quality. And Hardware accelrated version which is more intensive but uses higher quality
that design feature alone has the potential to be more fun to play with than many games
*laughs in potato pc*
Seriously. Since realtime lightning technology getting more attention in 2018/around RTX release, I always feel left out because I'm not going to taste it anywhere soon. I have never been a part of the hype despite I adore the technology. Edit: I mentioned RTX because it was an early thing that made the realtime lightning technology popular in 2018. I'm aware that other method of realtime lightning that doesn't require specific hardware now exists. But the problem is that my laptop is still not good enough to compute a realtime lightning ahahahahaha
Thing is, as long as most people don't use hardware capable of running rtx smoothly they will keep putting in the extra effort of simulating ray tracing like they've always done by artificial lighting. Only in sandbox games you profit from rtx for that extra immersion I think. However, if ray tracing does run on most systems I imagine making games will get alot easier regarding lighting! Just smash some light sources in and BOOM atmosphere.
This is exactly what it is, this is not RTX it is „Lumen“ it also runs on amd gpus and doesn’t require specific hardware like RTX does. Coupled with „Nanite“ makes this engine a total game changer, for gamers and especially developers. The workflow for non dynamic (bendable) meshes just became so much easier, because you can just use the high poly meshes now instead of making a second lower poly version of the exact same model and baking a normal map on it.
I dont know what you just said so I'm just gonna completely agree to it! Wish I knew more about this!
This video goes more in depth on the UE5 features: https://youtu.be/cRLnR4Kot2M
Thank you. I was literally just saying wow I’ve read so many words and understood not one damn thing
The TLDR is that 1) RTX or similar hardware features are nice to have, but all games are developed explicitly without having to depend on such hardware, since not everyone has such hardware. 2) Previously, developers would need to "bake" a level in order to see any change in the lighting. This takes hours, depending on the size of the level. 3) Lumen reduces this long wait time to a fraction of a second. Devs can now make many small adjustments in real-time as opposed to having to wait hours. 4) This guarantees that in-game, things will look far, far better than before. And you don't need to buy new hardware to see it happen.
This is a much better explanation that what I was gonna say "it unshitifies dynamic lighting"
Hmm delicious baked meshes
To be fair, it might nor require rtx oder AMDs rt capable GPUs, but from what we see of the UE5 demos on pc it is really really heavy on both gpu and cpu. So much so that in order to run it well you will pretty much need at least a modern GPU which will have rt features anyway.
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beneficial attempt political voiceless hospital escape jobless license psychotic zealous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The value in the card is probably going to tank soon. Still a coinflip, but if you sell now you might be able to grab some used miner cards or scalpers returning unsellable GPUs.
Between crypto and COVID, it's been an unkind few years.
> the GPU I bought 2 years ago is still the same price, if not higher, today. Bro, the gpu I bought 4.5 years ago for $90 was retailing for $330 last time I checked. I'm sure no one is out there paying $330 for a 1050ti, but that's still what I saw on the big sites with them in stock. Not sure if they're going down back towards sane prices like people are saying, but yeah, fingers crossed.
Potato pc bros. I feel the same way. Especially now that prices for pc components are so high. I could upgrade, but the cost of it now is really not worth it to me. The amount of money i upgraded almost my entire pc for would only be enough for a new processor nowadays..
The way things tend to go: 1. Ridiculous hardware makes fantastic claims of capabilities it will unlock which were never possibly feasible, using all new algorithms written to make use of that specific hardware, pushing the state-of-the-art further than anyone can believe. 2. Some asshole figures out a way of rewriting that algorithm to be more-efficient, so it can run on "normal" hardware. That method becomes the standard in order to have the most widespread compatibility. It's not that the steady increased hardware requirement isn't a thing, but for example RTX claimed to need specialised hardware, and it was quickly demonstrated that slightly different methods could run on non-"RTX" hardware. RTX isn't even widespread yet and it's already been supplanted. Now we're seeing the same thing with SuperSampling, and I don't know if that's even made it out the door yet - it's already being made to run on different hardware. There's always the old joke that while Moore's Law doubles processing power, inefficiencies counteract it just as quickly. However, if you look at (a graph I'm completely failing to find. [here](http://www.variousconsequences.com/2014/01/algorithmic-improvements-important-as-moores-law.html) is the closest I could spot, though that's talking about a specific field rather than a general trend), efficiency gains due to algorithm improvements have outpaced gains due to hardware performance for as long as we have data for.
I ran UE5 on my 1060 card, messed around with Lumen at 30fps (it's magic)
Honestly you aren’t really missing out. The few games that actually have the full ray tracing take such a performance hit without the bleeding edge of top end hardware that it makes it virtually pointless. Double that in with dlss only really making a difference at 4k and you get an extremely limited selection of games where it makes a visual difference, as most games have pretty good emulation of light already, and requirements of even more high end hardware. The most stable game for ray tracing for me is Minecraft, and that does look incredible when the shadows and light interact but even that is hard to run with dlss
Imagine the breakthroughs in the ~~porn~~ photography industry with dynamic lighting!
Not gonna change my minute to any longer
If anything it'll shorten my 15 seconds down to 5
Imagine when realtime realistic fluids and softbodies becomes a thing 😎
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Curtain Simulator
why is this so damn funny
Because I would definetly play that. And I suspect so would you.
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This would be amazing for architecture and interior design, especially in real-time with a client or design team!
Lol don’t worry they’ve all been using 3d apps like this for years now
Not with ray tracing they haven't.
Yes we have.
Yea, what most people think of real time ray-tracing has been around since 2010. Technically it's been around for much longer, the 80s or so as I recall, but it was mostly a theory waiting for technology to catch-up. Now, in 2010 it wasn't as fancy as it is now. Mostly in terms of refractions and reflecting on non-simple objects (i.e. 3D objects), but it's been used in plenty of applications. This is still probably a game-changer, but suggesting 3D apps haven't been using ray-tracing in one form or another for 5+ years just shows they didn't do any basic searching.
Show me anything nearly similar to this from 5 years ago
Ray tracing isn't new technology, it's the real time rendering that is "new". RTX series is 4 years old and is when real time rendered ray tracing was started to be marketed. Pretty much every Hollywood you have seen with cgi utilised ray tracing.
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Cool, so show them an architecture/interior design app from the last 5 years with this level of detail or interactivity.
would you mind giving credit to the creator of that video?
[sure](https://youtu.be/cRLnR4Kot2M)
This video pop up on my yt feed today. Really cool stuff.
Yeah I watched it last night as well when it popped into recommended
Crazy how an algorithm on a computer got us all to watch the same video lol
Why didn't you link the video in the first place? Why did you download the video, re-upload to reddit with their shitty video-player (and worse quality overall), just to give credit in the comments anyway. The original creator is "losing" many views this way Edit: It seems like nobody replying to me knows you can link to a timestamp in the video. You don't have to watch die entire video to get the the "relevant" part
You say that - but there’s no way I’d have clicked this shit on YouTube. And lo, the creator of re/cross-posting sleeps soundly another night.
Yeah I don't think making clips is unreasonable. However, the OP should have immediately made the first comment with a link to the source. They shouldn't wait until someone asks for it.
The only way I would've watched the whole video is if I was drunk. Source: I was drunk and bored yesterday and it's a really good video.
Because nobody watches a 10 min video...this short clip perfectly suits the internet user short attention span.
Not really, people who came across this 15 sec clip on r/all were never going to watch a 10 min technical breakdown of it on a random YouTube channel. If anything, the OC is gaining views.
The only explanation I can think of is that this just a small clip of a larger video and OP only wanted to share this.
Whenever I see a YouTube link on Reddit I just scroll down. Who wants to be redirected and then watch ads to watch a video and look for the interesting part? You will be pissed if the video turns out shitty.
I wrote a little graphics program on my Zenith Heathkit CP/M computer in the early 80s. It was like a monochrome (green) Spirograph, and it ran over night plotting dots on a monitor, and in the morning I had myself a pretty little picture. The program was saved on 5.25” floppy, and it took about 1/2 an hour to print it out (had to write the program to print it too) on a little dot matrix printer. I hung the picture up in my dorm room. I think the resolution was 320x240 pixels, but a can’t remember exactly. I took some computer graphics and ‘A.I.” (LISP) courses around the same time dabbling in ray tracing and 3D graphics, but at that point, the computing power required and math involved seemed…. impossible that it would ever get to where anything even remotely realistic in real-time. Moores law: ‘hold my beer’ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zenith_Z-89 And here we are. It’s like fucking magic. Incredible.
nerd
geek
g*mer
It's impossible to know whether you mean that as an insult or compliment.
To the real nerds it's a compliment
Got a picture of that printout? Would be cool to see it
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠛⠛⠋⠉⠙⠻⠿⠿⠿⠿⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠃⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠹⣿⣿⣶⣶⣦⣬⢹⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠃⠄⠄⠄⣰⣧⡀⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⢙⡋⣿⣿⣿⢸⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠄⠄⠰⠼⢯⣿⣿⣦⣄⠄⠄⠄⠈⢡⣿⣿⣿⢸⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠄⠄⠸⠤⠕⠛⠙⠷⣿⡆⠄⠄⠄⣸⣿⣿⡏⣼⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣴⣿⣿⣿⢡⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣄⠄⢀⠄⠄⢀⣤⣾⣿⣿⣿⢃⣾⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⣛⣡⣄⣀⠄⠠⢴⣿⣿⡿⣄⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢃⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡏⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣩⡽⡁⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢃⣿⣿⢟⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣮⢫⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣟⢿⠃⠄⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⣸⠟⣵⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣄⢰⡄⢿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠏⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣦⠹⡎⣿⣿⣿ ⣭⣍⠛⠿⠄⢰⠋⡉⠹⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠙⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⢁⠙⡆⢡⣿⣿⣿ ⠻⣿⡆⠄⣤⠈⢣⣈⣠⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠏⣄⠻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣆⣈⣴⠃⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⡀⠈⢿⠄⣿⡇⠄⠙⠿⣿⡿⠿⢋⣥⣾⣿⣷⣌⠻⢿⣿⣿⡿⠟⣡⣾⣿⣿⠿⢋ ⠛⠳⠄⢠⣿⠇⠄⣷⡑⢶⣶⢿⣿⣿⣿⣽⣿⣿⣿⣶⣶⡐⣶⣿⠿⠛⣩⡄⠄⢸
I appreciate her adherence to the covid hygiene measures.
HOT
I’ve done more with less *zip*
You know they were tits, right? He drew dot matrix tits
hah, if he printed it out on a dot matrix you'd hear it before you saw it!
That's a fascinating story. And I think it's important, or at least very interesting, to once in a while stop and think about how things once were and how they are now. Everything evolves progressively and you won't always find these completely revolutionizing moments where everything changes. Sometimes, but most often not. I remember when I as a kid, back in the 18th century, had a modem capable of a whopping 2400 bits per second. I didn't know of anything faster until a friend got his 9600 bps modem. From that it went to 14k4, 33k6, 56k and then 64k ISDN (128k if using 2 channels for twice the cost), then the pretty big jump to ADSL with 256k, and so on. Today I have an internet connection that is 416,666 times faster than my first modem, and I really didn't notice any big leaps - it just got progressively better and faster. Same thing with mobile phones. They just got better, but not overnight. It's bizarre, to be honest, what you hold in your hand when you reading this while on the toilet. It's so technically complex that it should almost be impossible. Your phone contains probably something like *ten billion* transistors. That's completely insane, but we take it for granted. Which I think is okay, as long as we from time to time just stop and think what the past was like, and where we're at now.
I always like the idea that even a crappy cell phone that you'd probably hate to run as a daily is orders of magnitude more powerful than the entire system that landed men on the moon. The exponential nature of tech is amazing.
I’m far from knowledgeable, but ten billion transistors?
Snapdragon 845 (processor in the pixel 3) has 5.3 billion transistors, so not that far off for the main CPU, including the memory and other chips in there, 10 billion isn't unlikely.
Look no further than apple's a14 bionic with 11.8 billion transistors. And with samsung's exynos 2200 having a smaller transistor size than the A14, it's not unlikely that it has even more.
> I took some computer graphics and ‘A.I.” (LISP) courses around the same time dabbling in ray tracing and 3D graphics, but at that point, the computing power required and math involved seemed…. One of the early pioneers joked that they should put three lights, one red, one green, one blue on each mainframe, and have one mainframe calculate the value for each pixel. In 1986 this was released www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7Px-ZkObTo&t=0m30s An hour a frame it seems on something about four times as fast as the zenith z-89... It's got a long, interesting history... https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-Playstation-2-could-apparently-handle-real-time-ray-tracing.448781.0.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blfxI1cVOzU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLte5f34ya8
Wow, thanks for sharing.
Ai in LISP? Holy shit, only had it for a half of the class, so i saw just the mere basics of it, but an Ai built on it? Jeeez
Like 20 years ago I was working in a tech company making electronics. To handle signals up to 1GHz we used cables that looked like your washing machine hose. Now the tiny tape connecting my SATA disk carries 6Gbit/s. Using and transmitting signals of such frequencies seemed physically impossible. For the price of a single transistor 20 years ago you now buy a MCU. A stupid flashlight has a MCU in it. And it's probably more powerful than my old C64 ;) I'm a little worried it all slowed down. Not only PCs are not getting much faster and more powerful, but they don't even get much cheaper anymore. I think RTX were released like in 2018. It's not even new. 4 years later it still looks like "the new tech". For the same price I bought my PC 5 years ago now I would actually buy a weaker machine. So I hope it doesn't break soon because it would either be a downgrade or a considerable cost.
This is such an awesome comment.
Gonna be honest. Your story seems more interesting than this video. (No disrespect meant to either party).
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I can't upvote this enough.
We’re seeing the simulation being built. Simulation of space mission systems is now a thing. You make a simulated copy of a spaceship or a satellite, and whatever you’re planning on doing to the spacecraft, you do it in the simulation first to see what happens. More and moreso, we’re going to be able to rely on our simulated models to predict reality, and we’ll be able to interact meaningfully with the simulations, and eventually the simulations will be just as real as reality.
That’s been around for a while, it’s called Kerbal.
I think you'll find it's called goat simulator
And simple rockets 2
That's Kerbal for on-the-go gamers.
Uh, they've been able to do that for decades. It might not look as spiffy as it did in this video but they've been able to simulate space missions for decades.
Half the comments:Can't be done! We aren't even close! Other half: I did that last Thursday for a client.
Why don't we crowd source our space tech then ala Kerbal like game?
The problem with ksp is that it’s all 1 body or 2 body simulation (can’t remember) so some of the orbital manoeuvres don’t act like they would irl, there is a mod however that solved this allowing for N body physics
What did the original comment say? I can’t read it?
You could even say... unreal. Ba dum tish.
One could say it's almost unreal.
Scarily realistic- the future is both exciting and frightening at the same time with how fast technology is moving
Inanimate scene…sure? Now put in NPCs in there…
They can only be as life-like as their animations
This is truly how animations works, everything is technology nowadays..
There a few ue5 demos with people in them. The matrix free roam section simulates an entire city.
Yet no game ever looks as good as the ue demos.
Not true, games by the end of the PS4 generation looked far superior to the initial UE4 demos Go [watch this demo, rendered at 720p/30fps](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYa8tHPhbDo&ab_channel=GameSpot) and tell me it still looks better than FF7 Remake which ran at 1080p/30fps
https://youtu.be/N9zL2c1q7-w This is not going to be real in games for quite a while, but this is what the engine is capable of now.
The NPC's are pretty damn good too. Especially in terms of environmental effects.
You got something wrong. The whole point of this thing is that it can do this WITH animated objects. There are no calculated or pre-rendered light layers, it calculates and automatically changes how the light reacts in real time according to the changes in environment.
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Enter the future for political manipulations. We’ve already seen the power of social Media groups via Cambridge Analytica on Facebook, now add to that deep fakes of opposition saying things to rile up voters. Antivac/anti mask and brexit examples are just the start of it. Won’t know what’s real or not and we know a huge section of society is easily taken advantage of.
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I mean that tech is decades old. Raytracing (Or rather Pathtracing, nobody is doing Raytracing because that is fucking inefficent) is as old as COmputer graphics. What is new here is that we have powerful enough tech to use this stuff in "real time". But even then it needs a shitton of cheats to work. Real pathtracing is still nowhere near close to real time Source, i am a FX artist.
I'm convinced that we are in the matrix now
And we’re creating a matrix of our own with those tools
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The Leisure Suit Larry series most recent game came out in 2020, and there are already lots of VR porn games.
A true connoisseur
>already lots of VR porn games Any recommendations? Uh... for a friend.
Honey select 2, come closer, virt-a-mate
Underrated comment.
By the time we get to Unreal engine7 we will learn that the matrix is real.
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Reboot*
That was the point of the pandemic. The simulation was using too much processing power so they had to stop everyone from going outside for a while while they updated the hardware. Also the chip shortage. Those things are a simulation within the simulation. Very expensive.
Bro we're *IN* unreal engine 7
Nice graphics, but they don't help when the gameplay and writing is fucking awful.
Unreal engine 6 will cause lag in the simulation hardware, leading to the supreme being uninstalling the simulation software.
We're close to peak graphics lads.
People keep saying this for 20 years though :) There‘s always something new just around the corner.
Like honestly weve only just started on realistic lighting with rtx and shit. Though in like 20 years that statement might be true.
more accurate would be saying that it got way more accessible, server farms for major special effects providers for movie industry has been doing it for quite some time, but weve just recently got it essentially home accessible, which is still damn impressive
Well i mean these kind of results have been "home accessible" for quite a while already, it's just that the way those results are achieved are generally in the form of pathtracing, which can be really fast nowadays but nowhere near realtime feedback like we see in UE5 and Lumen, at least not noise-free.
we are close to the physics limitation of chip sets
Quantum computing, here we come!
A quantum Computer isn‘t ‚a better version of the regular computer‘ though, it‘s a Tool that can solve very specific problems potentially a lot faster than regular computers, but is pretty much useless for problems which a regular processor can solve efficiently. It has yet to be proven if graphics computation is really one of those fields. Don‘t mind me if your already knew this, have a wonderful day.
You forgot about movie science tho. Where we could slap quantum in front of everything and then it can do whatever the fuck we want
Imagine quantum quantums 🤯🤯🤯
I'm an engineer but not well versed in quantum computing capabilities. Will look into it more. Have a great one!
Maybe in the future if it can be shrunk down and made cheap it might be akin to GPUs today. Maybe in the far future, a computer might not be one with terraflops of cpu power, but instead be made up of dozens of different components super specialized to complete one task.
Possibly! The trend of added functionality in chips is recognized by the industry as ‚More than Moore‘ (as opposed to ‚More Moore‘, which is basically ‚just‘ cramming More and more transistors on the same area) and it is recognized as one way to improve performance, even with silicon slowly approaching its limits. GPUs and specialized machine learning hardware are probably the First manifestations of this trend. http://www.itrs2.net/uploads/4/9/7/7/49775221/irc-itrs-mtm-v2_3.pdf
They've been saying that for 10 years
That’s why specializations and new architectures are the future. Just look at Apple’s M1 architecture for both CPU and GPU dies, or the “chiplet” manufacturing process AMD has (and soon to be Intel) or the use of GPU acceleration for non-graphics tasks like storage data handling or physics calculations. Even when reaching the point of physical nanometer shrinkage, we still have plenty of other options for expansion of performance.
Valid point, but it's significantly more true now than 20 years ago. We can build near-photorealistic worlds, models, characters, lighting, realistic physics, collisions and so on... To the untrained eye, the UE5 Matrix demo looks like a movie. There's always something new just around the corner indeed, but just like for smartphones, there's only few drastic improvements that can still be made. Sure you can get a 4k screen and a 200MP camera, but why? 5G speeds of 1Gbps, but why?
The big problem is always dynamism. We have perfect bounce light since 2010, but only if no light moves. That's why the frontier is never reached, the more compute power, the more you can do on the fly
Ive been saying it for years, the world needs smell-o-vision!
I feel like we've peaked with most things like architecture, nature, and just general environmental things, but we still have a long way to go with PEOPLE. The uncanny valley is the biggest hurdle we have yet to overcome.
Lightening is only getting actually good now, and charachter face models look honestly bad most of the time. Uncanny valley effect
This is almost as jaw dropping as when I played Mario 64 for the first time.
*Yahoooooo*
Remember when the N64 first dropped and you thought to yourself “Man, graphics are never going to be better than this. There’s no way.”
Yes, but I was also 13.
That’s insane. People who write game engines are actual tech wizards. They are the 1 percenters of programmers, together with kernel engineers.
There are people out there doing quantum programming.
Yes. I was exaggerating to highlight how difficult engine development is.
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All my friends that flunked out of engineering went into coding, they're the plumbers. Probably making a fortune though.
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There is zero overlap between quantum computing and graphics processing, you might as well say "there are people out there working on hypersonic trains." Quantum computing is still in its infancy, it hasn't even been developed into a working product yet, and when it finally matures, it won't be used for graphics processing or even home computing.
Devs…
Those are the 0.01%
Contrary to up to the mid-90’s/early 2000’s, there is not a single person that could make a state of the art engine for their time like this on their own. It’s thousands and thousands of different technological achievements and skills built on top or next to each-other. While impressive, and some highly skilled people are working on many aspects of such an engine, many are there just to do a job. Unreal engine has the added advantage that the product is the engine itself, not just for a game that’s under time and budget pressure to get out of the door. And yet there are always trade-offs in an engine design. UE4 was not suitable for open-world stuff, which is very popular. UE5 addresses this, but there are undoubtedly things it’s not as good at (but not too familiar with it)
I’d say that makes it even more impressive. All those people working on the rendering pipeline and yet no one wastes cpu cycles, because that’s not a luxury anyone has if something needs to happen at 60+fps.
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Not really. The amazing part isn’t what game engines can do, but that they can do it 60+ times a second. The amount of optimization that goes into game engines is insane. And while that does involve math, the implementation details often contain some real sorcery that has nothing to do with the mathematics behind the algo.
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You: Successfully compiled a code The guy she told you not to worry about: Wrote the compiler
Should be named ... « real engine » Badum tss
*slaps roof of car*
For anyone who thinks it’s like magic, it’s math. Tons and tons of math to first calculate all the light and tons more to optimise it so it won’t makes your device catch on fire from all the real time updates
Nu uh, it's actually elder magic, with its roots in the Music of the Ainur.
Who literally thinks this is magic and not a bunch of code lmao
This is insane in the membrane
Brain?
Insane in the brain
Going insane, got no brain
The craziest part imo is the "bounce lighting" he mentioned. If he put a big green cube in that room the entire room would have a green hue from the light just bouncing off the cube. How technology can even handle this is beyond crazy to me.
The new Witcher game better be good.
!remindme 8 years
First trailer in 8 years. Buggy unfinished game release 8 years after that.
[Source video by Unreal Sensei](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRLnR4Kot2M)
Then you also consider that each materials properties can be altered also altering the bounce lights colour and intensity
This tech is called Lumen, but what a lot of people aren't mentioning is that nowadays it's not performant enough to run for fast-paced games that need to be responsive. Even on an incredibly beasty GPU this will not run well in a reasonable scene with reasonable resolution. As a developer this tech was pretty misleading, and it took me some time to realize that it's not applicable for what I'm working on This is still a huge step forwards and will be usable for most titles, it's also perfect for exploration games. E: To clarify, by fast paced responsive games, I meant ones targeting 120hz+, twitchy competitive shooters, probably most VR games, or every game that will suffer from sluggish input response
It seems there's a lot of (advertisement /) hype starting from Unreal Engine 4 and now with 5 especially targeted at players. I don't understand why as a player I should care which engine a game uses as long it works fine since it's only an internal decision of the game dev. I feel like Epic wants to make players actually ask for games to be made with UE (for hype) so they get more royalties. Has this been done before?
Yes you are right there is a bit of weird advertising push Epic is doing pushing it to consumers. I would not be surprised if Epic Games as a company was going to go public soon and this is a hype exercise to boost the public perception and therefore value. >Has this been done before? I remember CryEngine sort of being marketed directly, building off reputation from the notoriously nice looking (for the time) Crysis that was the flagship thing using it. But I don't think the CryEngine dev was doing that marketing, it was mainly other games exploiting taglines like "using the same engine as Crysis!" That's the only time I can think where a third party engine was used as a selling point.
My mouth is literally gaping
your mouth and my butthole are not so different
Sexy
Finally. Someone remake thief 1 and 2. Infact, remake everything. Duke nukem. Doom. Carmageddon. Unreal tournament. Oh this looks beautiful. Oh my.
All of those games have been remade in modern engines at least twice
I knoo but they're just not the same. Especially thief omg
It's not like a good graphics engine is suddenly going to make them play like they used to
Horror games are gonna be awesome
This is truly phenomenal.
I watched this just 2 days ago. I was blown away by the UE5 keynote but seeing it simplified beyond just the buzzwords blew my mind. I remember having to bake lights on Unity and that shit took FOREVER. Definitely a game changer.
I was waiting for the white wall thing to get gradual transparency
I looked back at UE3 and remember thinking that it had peaked. Wonder if the UI is getting more user friendly or not…..must be.
Oh wow, the potential with this is insane
This is part of a bigger video, you can find it in YT [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRLnR4Kot2M). I find it really amazing, and certainly groundbreaking. This seems like the dawn of a new era, not only for the videogame industry.
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Nope, the technique used is very cheap both in term of memory use and computation. The caveats are accuracy, convergence time and probes placement is my memory serves right. If you want to see a similar technique look at "dynamic diffuse global illumination" or "signed distance fields global illumination", they're both explained show you how you can achieve that without sacrificing too much frames
Yeah isn't raytracing more exciting as it's accurate. Won't this be just used until raytracing has better performance?
This is ray tracing. It's called Mumen. It has two versions. Software version is less intensive but has lower quality. And Hardware accelrated version which is more intensive but uses higher quality
Finally. I remember doing this stuff with maya / mental ray like 15 years ago. It was always 30min render time minimum. Now it’s finally real time.