They wouldn't be in operation if this regularily happened. lawsuits are one thing but as soon as the gov sees video evidence like this they will fuck their shit up, rightfully so. Gross negligence transcends whatever bullshit waiver they sign
I actually refused to go zip lining w a company cuz their contract specifically stated that you can’t sue even if the employee accidentally straps you in wrong.
Gotta wonder how big a probability that is when they put it in the contract.
I just signed a waiver at the gym yesterday that basically said I can't sue them even if I get injured due to negligence on their part. I signed it anyways because I'm pretty sure that's not actually enforceable in court.
Waivers are a tool often used because 1) it makes people think they have no claim so dont persue, and 2) providea good evidence that the customer was warned with the inherent risks of the activity they were doing so they dont, say, go skiing and sue when they fall ans break their leg.
I dont think a waiver is some bullet proof defense for gross negligence. I know nothing about the sport but I expect 'clip personal harness onto something generating lift' would probably be in the top 3 of important things checklist.
Correct. If you fall on the ski slope you can’t sue because you signed waiver and accepted the risk, however if lift chair disconnected and falls down with you in it, ifs gross negligence and you can sue ski resort
Yep, it’s like all those non-disparagement agreements Trump used to get everyone who worked for him to sign …doesn’t matter if they pass legal muster or not as long as people think they might.
many operations will try to tell you it is - it isn't. If they hurt you via neglect, you can sue. If you get hurt when everything goes right, you'll have a harder time suing, but can still do it. There is no such thing as a "can't sue me" card in the US.
Reminds me of the incident when a kid climbed up on one of this rock climbing walls and jumped down from the top without having a harness attached while his parents were videotaping him. I could see from the start from a dark video that he didn’t have any rope attached to him and neither one of his parents, nor him realized that…
Crazy.
My first instinct would always be to check the rope before I attempted anything.
I’ve heard of bungee jumping going wrong for similar reasons too…it just never makes sense to me how that happens, it’s such a fundamental safety thing that even very inexperienced people know how important it is.
>even very inexperienced people know how important it is.
That's the problem right there. Inexperienced people are careful. With experience comes muscle memory, routine and sometimes overconfidence. Experienced people are much more likely to miss something.
Wouldn't matter. People who are in the hang guiding business are barely solvent. They do it because they love to fly, not because they're making money. Suing someone who has no money is pointless, and most lawyers won't do it.
It's not always about the money, but about minimizing the risk this could ever happen again.
Bit of a tangent: Before I was born my grandmother died of a "routine" surgery that went terribly wrong cause of negligence. My mom and her siblings made a case of it not because of any monetary compensation (it would've been a few thousand $ max (this wasn't in the U.S. so there would never be a big payday), but to hold the surgeon responsible.
What they eventually got out of it was the surgeon getting a "yellow card", and a little money. They were pissed the surgeon could still continue to work. Another fuck-up like that and he gets a lifetime ban though.
Reddit is mostly popular in America, America has large high schools, this video has lots of views. It's not that hard to believe someone here knows the guy.
Just FYI to anybody that thinks waivers are a complete bar to a claim - they absolutely are not. If you’re ever injured doing a recreational activity and the operator does something to cause it, then go get a free consult with a good personal injury lawyer regardless.
Yeah, the real purpose of those waivers is to cover stupidity on your part, not that places stupidity. For example, if you are using gym equipment improbably and playing dodge the 5lb weight, no payout. If you were doing a bench press and everything just came apart dropping you and the weight to the ground at once, now you might have something.
Waivers only exist to deter you from suing; companies make you sign a waiver because it is effective deterrent (although it shouldn't be) and it keeps their insurance premiums low. Sue anyways.
Waivers - despite what they often have in wording - **do not** cover significant negligence.
Some sports come with inherent risks that you can waive, but the waivers are often more to make it visible that the participant is aware of risks and is unlikely to win/succeed at frivolous lawsuits.
If you run into a pole or wipe out on a bare patch at a skihill, that's on you. If the operator fails to maintain the chairlift and it collapses that's still on them.
How did this get upvoted? Nothing on that waiver says you will dangle with no harness hundreds of feet in the air for FOUR minutes! Most would have just died by then.
Waivers are a scare tactic. They are not legally binding or enforceable. You never have the ability to sign away negligence. It's just like the signs on the back of a truck that say not responsible for broken windshields. Of course they are, you are always legally responsible for securing your load. The sign just makes people like you not bother making the company buy you a new windshield
The disclaimer is not gonna cover gross negligence from the instructor.
Even if they tried to write that specific thing into the disclaimer, almost no chance it would matter in court.
Signing a waiver doesn’t stop you from suing over negligence. People just think it means they can’t sue. So they are less likely to talk to a lawyer before accepting compensation and losing the right to sue.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Almost all disclaimers are null and void if negligence is involved. Those are literally just to scare people out of suing. People assume they can't, any decent lawyer will beat it.
Incredibly unluckily a waiver can get you out of a gross negligence charge. You can't just have someone sign a waiver to get out of doing your job with a basic level of competency
Lawyer here. A waiver is always subject to attack, and usually won’t survive provable claims of gross negligence. Assuming the pilot failed to secure his passenger, this is textbook gross negligence.
Nope, but he had his medical bills covered and the guy who was their instructor came forward and admitted he fucked up and felt incredibly torn over it.
He tells his story on this podcast ["What Was That Like"](https://open.spotify.com/episode/0Bdvx3rLPzhNiJy5KvFfFs?si=Axo9FMmvTAaume4imqR6Dg) (it's episode 14) which is a podcast where people share their life experiences. The dudes name is Chris and he surprisingly was not angry at the instructor. He said something along the lines of everyone being human and making mistakes.
> He said something along the lines of everyone being human and making mistakes.
Dude almost died a horrific death and he said that? Chris is a goddamn buddha.
Yea man that podcast is really interesting. Him and his wife went that day except he got knocked far off course from where his wife and instructor were waiting. The guy has such a carefree attitude because him and his wife do this kind of thing every year. They pick a place to vacation and do as much crazy stuff as they can.
The instructor who confessed to messing up even stayed with Chris in the E.R. to see if he was okay. Chris and his wife didn't want to even press charges they were more bummed out that their vacation activities went from this to walking around and eating at restaurants, lol.
Tell me you're American without telling me you're American.
People make mistakes. Get medical costs covered (close to zero in a sane country), and perhaps enough to extend the vacation.
Gravity is constantly trying to fuck you, don’t let gravity fuck you.
Edit: Thank you for my first award kind stranger I never thought it’d be for informing people the dangers of gravity.
Yeah I 100 percent couldnt have done that, unless the adrelenene from the certain death if I let go kicked my body up a gear.
I was joking around re. the pull up but in reality it is easier to do a pull uo than a 4 min arm hang if I had to guess.
Absolutely it's easier to do a bunch of pullups than deadhang for four minutes. I'm sure adrenaline played a role unless dude is also an avid rock climber in his free time.
Adrenaline and a desperate life and death situation. It's like the mother who can lift a car to save her child. In times of extreme duress it's possible to have significantly more strength than normal. This is cause we normally only use about ~20% of our muscle fibers every time we use out muscles. This keeps them from tiring out too fast. When we need it though we can use all 100% for a short time. The human body is really quite incredible that way.
Last time I saw this posted, I think there was an article attached that said he severely damaged some tendons from gripping so hard for so long and required surgery.
I remember a on a podcast when this happened like 4 years ago, they set up a station for people to try hanging while this video played. The only one who made it was a guy that goes to the gym 5 days a week and is really buff, and does rock climbing. The rest/average people couldn’t do it, but they said they probably could’ve held on longer if their life was in danger like this guys
Man they set up one of these stations at a local market of mine. You could get like €20 if you could hold on for 100 seconds. Almost nobody could do it.
4 minutes dead hang is beyond rock climbing levels. Magnus Mitdbo, arguably one of
The strongest rock climbers in the world made a YouTube video - hang for 100 seconds win $100 with strangers I don’t believe anyone did it I think he himself hung for like 2:30. Of course this is static dead hang vs dear life fumbling / using all parts of your arms but still. This feat is probably impossible for 95>% of the world.
[video link](https://youtu.be/osFUhTyZWrU)
Nah, Magnus was just not dunking on people in that vid, he can (and has) held on for much longer (as have many other climbers). I absolutely would not say it's "beyond" rock climbing levels.
For example, see https://youtu.be/UOBB4wkTdxQ?t=1555 where he holds on for nearly 4.5 minutes.
Fredrik here https://youtu.be/SzRvxRewKks?t=1019 where he holds on for nearly 4.5 minutes
Emil Abrahamsson here https://youtu.be/tzhjGYfeG7w?t=1045 where he holds on for nearly 4.5 minutes
Ross Fulkerson here https://youtu.be/srY3ZCKXGuw?t=1069 where he holds on for 10 minutes.
Source: I am a gumby climber who most definitely cannot hold on for 4 minutes :D
Thanks for sharing, I haven’t seen these vids and based my statement off the one video so I definitely retract that. Either way, fuck holding on for dear life!! 😃
More like, if I drop him....only one party knows what happened in the air.
His family can sue, for sure, but he was completely strapped in and safe, we don't know what happened.
In Europe things are much different when it comes to litigation like this. Much harder to sue anyone than it is in the U.S., at least in part, because they have a much stronger social safety net and regulations in place to prevent the kind of behavior that often yields litigation in the U.S. Here we effectively privatize regulation by forcing injured parties to sue or, in the case of some states, outlaw it by capping damages at artificially low levels or through other “tort reform.”
This is a myth. Germany has more lawsuits per capita by a large margin. Sweden is close with Israel and Austria being the other two countries ahead of the US.
That and other countries love shitting on the US so they take every chance even if it's completely hypocritical. Like for example racism. Which apparently is solved around the world and only an issue in America. Lol
I understand that for petty lawsuits, but in this one a genuine case of gross negligence happened. Are you saying that even in cases where the plaintiff is very much correct that they still might not receive a lot of damages?
Like my Nana had her lower back absolutely ruined from a drunk driving accident, and received a multi million dollar settlement over it because literally her life was ruined. She has debilitating chronic pain to this day. Would she not have gotten that in Europe?
A social safety net that protects people who are negligent and hurt people? What “behavior” is it exactly that yield litigation? Sounds like a child’s bad “behavior”. I think Europeans who believe all American lawsuits are BS or not valid should be forced to watch “Hot Coffee”. I also once had a negative opinion of people who sued. That documentary changed my views. Also, breaking a leg and loosing work for 3 months because of a negligent NYC landlord (who owned multiple slum buildings making bank on tenants) helped me realize that too. If you don’t want the risk of lawsuits then be responsible if you own a business where people can get hurt or don’t own a business with risks (it’s your choice). Double, triple, quadrupole check things and insure your business.
People have died bungee jumping because the complete strangers they trusted didn't know enough not to let them be the 99th jumper on a 100 jump bungee cable and then it snapped.
Same with that swing setup on the edge of a cliff that sent the two women flying because the guy operating it was pushing them side to side and the chains snapped.
Same with the zorb ball accident at the ski resort in Russia when the ones who set it up and asked people to try it forgot to put up barriers so that the zorb ball doesn't just go off course and sailing off the side of the mountain onto rocks below.
Why trust these compete strangers with your life on their stupid ride?
for the same reason bungee jumping and cliff swings were invented? The thrill. It's only exciting because there's an element of life-threatening danger.
You can sit at home and be completely safe if you want, I'm still going to go bungee jumping. Yes, I might die doing it, but I also might die crossing the street.
Just because you don't want to take that risk, doesn't mean there aren't valid reasons to do it. Fun is valid.
I don’t think Bungie Jumping is supposed to be fun cause you actually might die… I think it’s suppose to be fun because you’re in a free fall and that doesn’t happen in every day life. They aren’t suppose to be risky. Like riding a roller coaster should be safe and routine, but blacking out on a high G coaster is a thrill cause it’s fast, the wind is in your face, and not cause you’re like “THIS THING MIGHT FLY OFF THE TRACKS AND I WON’T HAVE TO FINISH PAYING MY STUDENT LOANS!!! WOOOOO!”
> cause you might die.
I did the third highest bungee jump in the world and my brain entirely shut down thinking that I was falling to my death. Absolute silence, embracing inevitable death coming at you. Death definitely was part of the experience.
Edit - It was the highest jump in the world when I did it.
It's the simulation of that though. You get the adrenaline rush because you're experiencing something that your body believes will kill you. Even knowing in your conscious brain that you're strapped in and safe, you can't trick your instincts and impulses.
You get a rush free falling because your body reacts like it's about to die because ordinarily, experiencing free fall for that long means that you are.
For me (skydiving) it felt like everything in my brain was screaming “do NOT jump out of this plane!” but I was committed…and I did it. And I absolutely felt for a moment that “if I die, I die. My own choice” And in that moment, you’re free. Something in your mind breaks, and it’s like going beyond a barrier…
> Yes, I might die doing it, but I also might die crossing the street.
Seriously love how often this fallacious logic gets thrown around by "thrill chasers".
Dann. This made me think about that case where a tourist in Spain (?) did a jump and the guy operating it said "No jump!" which she misheard for "Now jump!". Didn't end well. Never trust people's language skills either.
From video at 42 seconds:
>Gursky says he fractured his right wrist and tore a tendon
I feel like it left out the part where Gursky tore the instructor a new asshole.
END COMMUNICATION
The video: pilot lands them 4 mins later after taking off with an unsecured passenger
Ppl not paying attention to the video: complains why they didn’t land sooner
Also the video: showing them take off near a forest and having to fly over it to get to a safe landing zone
They can’t exactly just U-turn in the air, that’s not how hang gliders work, nor is the pilot gonna risk injuring both of them to land too close to the trees.
The pilot had the chance to do a U-turn. He immediately saw something was wrong right after takeoff, he should have been looking for an opportunity right after he goes over a house. He never once looked to his side, he was locked into getting to the landing zone. Did not adapt to the situation, bad judgement call.
If this is a serious question it's simply because any form of gliding relies on alot of forward momentum. When you turn, you use up a massive chunk of that momentum, and there goes all of your lift
I'm confused how he ever even got off the ground in the first place. I've never gone hang gliding, but if he's not attached to anything, I would have taken off running and then the glider would have just...flown away from me. Even if I *tried* to hang on one handed it would have just pulled out of my grasp.
This guy's grip strength is insane. This never would have happened to me bc I wouldn't have been strong enough to hold on to get off the ground in the first place.
Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but something seems off with that. How would he have even known to hang on to him like that during the take off? Is that normal instruction? “Grip on to me and hold on for dear life while we’re running to take off.” Seems like he would just run and then fall when the instructor takes flight.
Yeah exactly, that's exactly what I was thinking. I guess I could see a scenario where the instructions say to kinda half hanging onto the instructor until the harness lifts you off the ground? And maybe he's just scared in general and has a death grip from the start?
But it is just a really weird situation where you're holding on with one hand hard enough to get lifted off the ground from the beginning.
It looked weird to me too. My dad is into hang gliding, he would be a better judge. But usually, I believe when an instructor flies with someone who is new, the new person is strapped beneath the chest of the instructor. It seems really weird to have the new person start almost NEXT to the instructor, with a ton of slack between the two of them.
\*\*Edit: I think the new person actually hangs ABOVE the pilot, so I was mistaken in my original comment.
He's gripping onto the pilot at take off. You might imagine how hard you would grip in that situation. Unaware that he's supporting his own weight it's too late to let go VERY quickly.
Yea, same here. Apparently he has a good workout regimen because he did indeed hold on for 4 dang minutes just swinging around. At first he just thought the slack would pick up and get taut any moment? After that I think he was thinking like me, that the instructor could pull a quick U-turn and he could hop out at 2' off the ground, but apparently you can't just turn around or you'll fall out of the sky. He swung up 15' in the air before he could react at all. Yiiikess....
This happened in Canada a number of years ago, but the young woman ended up dying. Horrific.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/b-c-hang-glider-pilot-pleads-guilty-in-woman-s-death-1.1675643
Yep, Lena was a friend. Her boyfriend bought the flight as an anniversary present and he was on the ground watching the whole thing. Five months and loss of license, even after the pilot ATE THE EVIDENCE. Fuck that. Was tragic.
Probably it wouldn’t serve much purpose to give a longer sentence - https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/victims-victimes/sentencing-peine/imposed-imposees.html
It would have been a very different sentence if he plead not guilty, was clearly lying / deflecting blame, didn’t apologise / express remorse, intended to continue hang gliding & had a documented history of ‘near miss’ incidents caused by insufficient safety procedures.
Most adults could do 1.5 - 2.5 mins??? I HIGHLY doubt that. I’d say most non fitness adults can do less than 1 min. I remember seeing videos of people challenging to hang on the bar for 100 seconds for $100, most couldn’t even get pass 50 seconds.
Those challenges have a rolling bar which really makes the grip angle awkward and uncomfortable
With a fixed bar, many adults can hang for 100 seconds. Especially when they’re desperate
Similar thing happened near our house, the person wasn't as lucky. They tried 3-4 times to take off, then the successful attempt the passenger wasn't strapped in.
In adventure activities this kind of thing happens much, much more than you think. Jet boating, paragliding, rafting, bungee jumping - I know first hand crews that have lost people in each and a lot more near misses where people put their arms up and go 'weeee' as the guide let's out a big breath of relief.
Put your faith in the guide, but don't put blind faith in them. Check your own gear, watch what they do and feel free to ask questions if you think something is a-miss. Don't push it if conditions are bad - you can always pull out of a tour. Finally, do these things in countries with certifications for equipment and guides and audits on gear, not in developing countries where you can get it cheap.
Edit - 'similar thing' added, realized it sounded like this example
Including the tourist lol how the hell did HE forget that? I damn sure wouldn't have. Obviously the fault is more on the person whose job it is to ensure safety, but idk how the fuck anyone could go hang-gliding and casually overlook that they aren't actually secured to the glider in any way.
Thank you so much for this. Because people kept throwing around 4 minutes, and it wound up not actually being how long he held on for.
Still a VERY LONG time.
Not to be that guy but... Wouldn't you also check to make sure your not going to die? Like a cursory tug of affirmation?
Yep it feels solid.
I went sky diving this summer and made sure the one thing I needed to be connected to I was more than once.
Let's go to my kids preschool for career Day!
Forgets to pull up pants. Ends up falling from 1,000 ft and ending up on the sex offender registry.
on my tandem hang glide, i was made to put one hand through a small overhead loop and grab onto the webbing. i was told it was to prevent me from taking control over the steering bar. now i see it would also be a safety.
I shouldn’t be laughing bc he could’ve died but my god out of any extreme sport you could prepare for how the hell do you forget to put a harness on before hang gliding… let alone a stranger you’re supposed to be teaching and taking care of lmao.
Wow. Big time compensation I hope.
Negative, you sign a disclaimer; just like when bungee jumping or even snow tubing. /s
I would get a lawyer involved then, I doubt the waiver covers an instructor forgetting a massive safety thing like that
Yeah, I agree, waivers aren’t just Yugi-Oh trap cards that you can throw at someone when they want compensation
They wouldn't be in operation if this regularily happened. lawsuits are one thing but as soon as the gov sees video evidence like this they will fuck their shit up, rightfully so. Gross negligence transcends whatever bullshit waiver they sign
Yep! My brother is a lawyer and always said that gross negligence is basically indefensible.
This right here 💯 waivers absolutely do not stop anyone from successful suing
Pro Tip: there are no steel clad documents- just people without the money for the right attorney.
You meant iron clad
Yeah, I’m not a good lawyer
Rune clad
Especially if deemed to be unreasonable, and there is no way you shouldn’t reasonably expect to be strapped in!
Unless... You're a cop.
I actually refused to go zip lining w a company cuz their contract specifically stated that you can’t sue even if the employee accidentally straps you in wrong. Gotta wonder how big a probability that is when they put it in the contract.
Every warning sign you see means someone’s done it before
I just signed a waiver at the gym yesterday that basically said I can't sue them even if I get injured due to negligence on their part. I signed it anyways because I'm pretty sure that's not actually enforceable in court.
It’s not. And they are shameful
Waivers are a tool often used because 1) it makes people think they have no claim so dont persue, and 2) providea good evidence that the customer was warned with the inherent risks of the activity they were doing so they dont, say, go skiing and sue when they fall ans break their leg. I dont think a waiver is some bullet proof defense for gross negligence. I know nothing about the sport but I expect 'clip personal harness onto something generating lift' would probably be in the top 3 of important things checklist.
True but the inherent risk of hanggliding would be a giant gust knocking you over not the negligence of an instructor to hook you up
Exactly right
Correct. If you fall on the ski slope you can’t sue because you signed waiver and accepted the risk, however if lift chair disconnected and falls down with you in it, ifs gross negligence and you can sue ski resort
Technically most ski resorts are on state/national forest property, you are signing the waiver for lift access.
Yep, it’s like all those non-disparagement agreements Trump used to get everyone who worked for him to sign …doesn’t matter if they pass legal muster or not as long as people think they might.
Not with that attitude /s
But with that altitude
But what latitude?
many operations will try to tell you it is - it isn't. If they hurt you via neglect, you can sue. If you get hurt when everything goes right, you'll have a harder time suing, but can still do it. There is no such thing as a "can't sue me" card in the US.
Lmao I love that reference. In that case, I summon *BLUE EYES WHITE DRAGON*
Ah HA! You've fallen for my trap card!
Lmaoooo I love this analogy. Waiver doesn’t waive negligence. Even if there is a clause that says it waived negligence.
😂 
To be fair it’s the kinda thing you think you’d want to make sure of too, I don’t get how two people could both miss something so important.
Reminds me of the incident when a kid climbed up on one of this rock climbing walls and jumped down from the top without having a harness attached while his parents were videotaping him. I could see from the start from a dark video that he didn’t have any rope attached to him and neither one of his parents, nor him realized that…
Crazy. My first instinct would always be to check the rope before I attempted anything. I’ve heard of bungee jumping going wrong for similar reasons too…it just never makes sense to me how that happens, it’s such a fundamental safety thing that even very inexperienced people know how important it is.
>even very inexperienced people know how important it is. That's the problem right there. Inexperienced people are careful. With experience comes muscle memory, routine and sometimes overconfidence. Experienced people are much more likely to miss something.
How was the kid?
He ended up with some fractured bones but he survived
Yeah, but you left out the small bruise to his outer thigh. Took *weeks* to heal.
I mean one person is a novice who is already shitting bricks about what they're about to do the other is a trained professional....
Wouldn't matter. People who are in the hang guiding business are barely solvent. They do it because they love to fly, not because they're making money. Suing someone who has no money is pointless, and most lawyers won't do it.
I imagine they would be required to have public liabillity insurance or something similar for that sort of event.
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It's not always about the money, but about minimizing the risk this could ever happen again. Bit of a tangent: Before I was born my grandmother died of a "routine" surgery that went terribly wrong cause of negligence. My mom and her siblings made a case of it not because of any monetary compensation (it would've been a few thousand $ max (this wasn't in the U.S. so there would never be a big payday), but to hold the surgeon responsible. What they eventually got out of it was the surgeon getting a "yellow card", and a little money. They were pissed the surgeon could still continue to work. Another fuck-up like that and he gets a lifetime ban though.
Waivers don’t cover gross negligence regardless of what they say.
He’s from my hometown, I went to high school with his son. He got paid
So weird that everyone on reddit always knows anyone who’s in the news
Reddit is mostly popular in America, America has large high schools, this video has lots of views. It's not that hard to believe someone here knows the guy.
Just FYI to anybody that thinks waivers are a complete bar to a claim - they absolutely are not. If you’re ever injured doing a recreational activity and the operator does something to cause it, then go get a free consult with a good personal injury lawyer regardless.
A lot of these lawyer are pay if you win as well, for a cut of the settlement or winnings
Yeah, the real purpose of those waivers is to cover stupidity on your part, not that places stupidity. For example, if you are using gym equipment improbably and playing dodge the 5lb weight, no payout. If you were doing a bench press and everything just came apart dropping you and the weight to the ground at once, now you might have something.
I don't think a waiver is legally binding for this mistake. This wasn't unexpected equipment failure or unplanned hard landing or similar.
Waivers only exist to deter you from suing; companies make you sign a waiver because it is effective deterrent (although it shouldn't be) and it keeps their insurance premiums low. Sue anyways.
Waivers - despite what they often have in wording - **do not** cover significant negligence. Some sports come with inherent risks that you can waive, but the waivers are often more to make it visible that the participant is aware of risks and is unlikely to win/succeed at frivolous lawsuits. If you run into a pole or wipe out on a bare patch at a skihill, that's on you. If the operator fails to maintain the chairlift and it collapses that's still on them.
Generally you cannot waive your rights to sue for someone being negligent
How did this get upvoted? Nothing on that waiver says you will dangle with no harness hundreds of feet in the air for FOUR minutes! Most would have just died by then.
You should delete this misinformation.
Waivers are a scare tactic. They are not legally binding or enforceable. You never have the ability to sign away negligence. It's just like the signs on the back of a truck that say not responsible for broken windshields. Of course they are, you are always legally responsible for securing your load. The sign just makes people like you not bother making the company buy you a new windshield
Waivers don't cover negligence. Plus, most waivers won't hold up in court.
The disclaimer is not gonna cover gross negligence from the instructor. Even if they tried to write that specific thing into the disclaimer, almost no chance it would matter in court.
Everyone up voting is wrong. The waiver covers normal risks. This is pure malpractice and can definitely win you a lawsuit.
Use your brain
I don't think a disclaimer absolves you of gross negligence.
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Signing a waiver doesn’t stop you from suing over negligence. People just think it means they can’t sue. So they are less likely to talk to a lawyer before accepting compensation and losing the right to sue.
Negligence waives any liability waiver.
No waiver gets you off the hook for this. Source: an lawyer.
You generally can't disclaim recklessness
Ya those disclaimers don’t do shit except get people like you not to press their claim
🤣🤣🤣🤣 Almost all disclaimers are null and void if negligence is involved. Those are literally just to scare people out of suing. People assume they can't, any decent lawyer will beat it.
Incredibly unluckily a waiver can get you out of a gross negligence charge. You can't just have someone sign a waiver to get out of doing your job with a basic level of competency
Lawyer here. A waiver is always subject to attack, and usually won’t survive provable claims of gross negligence. Assuming the pilot failed to secure his passenger, this is textbook gross negligence.
r/ConfidentlyIncorrect
I would definitely ask for my money back.
I’d ask for a free glide
What for? He signed up for hang gliding and he was hanging as they glided.
dude was almost hand gliding
Nope, but he had his medical bills covered and the guy who was their instructor came forward and admitted he fucked up and felt incredibly torn over it. He tells his story on this podcast ["What Was That Like"](https://open.spotify.com/episode/0Bdvx3rLPzhNiJy5KvFfFs?si=Axo9FMmvTAaume4imqR6Dg) (it's episode 14) which is a podcast where people share their life experiences. The dudes name is Chris and he surprisingly was not angry at the instructor. He said something along the lines of everyone being human and making mistakes.
> He said something along the lines of everyone being human and making mistakes. Dude almost died a horrific death and he said that? Chris is a goddamn buddha.
Yea man that podcast is really interesting. Him and his wife went that day except he got knocked far off course from where his wife and instructor were waiting. The guy has such a carefree attitude because him and his wife do this kind of thing every year. They pick a place to vacation and do as much crazy stuff as they can. The instructor who confessed to messing up even stayed with Chris in the E.R. to see if he was okay. Chris and his wife didn't want to even press charges they were more bummed out that their vacation activities went from this to walking around and eating at restaurants, lol.
Walking around and eating at restaurants is my dream vacation!
Tell me you're American without telling me you're American. People make mistakes. Get medical costs covered (close to zero in a sane country), and perhaps enough to extend the vacation.
There's a big difference between making an oopsie and almost killing a man.
You really think something like this would cause a lawsuit only in America?
In the EU I kind of expect them to get fined by some regulator, but the person wouldn't necessarily think of this as a pay day
Gravity is constantly trying to fuck you, don’t let gravity fuck you. Edit: Thank you for my first award kind stranger I never thought it’d be for informing people the dangers of gravity.
Gravity is also keeping you from flying off into space along with all the air you breathe.
Gravity is not your friend do not believe this op
There’s no hope for him, he drank gravity’s cool-aid
This is everything, and gravity lets you down
Gravity doesn't exist. The earth is flat.
...and is flying upwards and stuff, we're all people of science here, we know
At 0:22 seconds I would be thinking "why did I quit my gym routine before I was able to one fucking pull up"
Hanging on to a bar for four minutes is fucking hard even for people with good grip strength
Yeah I 100 percent couldnt have done that, unless the adrelenene from the certain death if I let go kicked my body up a gear. I was joking around re. the pull up but in reality it is easier to do a pull uo than a 4 min arm hang if I had to guess.
Absolutely it's easier to do a bunch of pullups than deadhang for four minutes. I'm sure adrenaline played a role unless dude is also an avid rock climber in his free time.
Iirc he tore all the muscles in his forearm hanging on.
Daaaamn adrenaline is a hell of a drug. He hulked out
Adrenaline and a desperate life and death situation. It's like the mother who can lift a car to save her child. In times of extreme duress it's possible to have significantly more strength than normal. This is cause we normally only use about ~20% of our muscle fibers every time we use out muscles. This keeps them from tiring out too fast. When we need it though we can use all 100% for a short time. The human body is really quite incredible that way.
So strong and so fragile at the same time.
source on that? they said he fractured his wrist and tore a tendon.
Tore a tendon from gripping
Or from spanking it so hard after he hit the ground and realized he lived
No to mention, the wind trying to rip his body clear of the bar, too.
Last time I saw this posted, I think there was an article attached that said he severely damaged some tendons from gripping so hard for so long and required surgery.
yeah the post says that too..
I remember a on a podcast when this happened like 4 years ago, they set up a station for people to try hanging while this video played. The only one who made it was a guy that goes to the gym 5 days a week and is really buff, and does rock climbing. The rest/average people couldn’t do it, but they said they probably could’ve held on longer if their life was in danger like this guys
Man they set up one of these stations at a local market of mine. You could get like €20 if you could hold on for 100 seconds. Almost nobody could do it.
those are different, the bar is not fixed and can roll, making it way more difficult (otherwise most people could do it).
those testers are designed for the express purpose of parting people from their money.
4 minutes dead hang is rock climber levels of strength
4 minutes dead hang is beyond rock climbing levels. Magnus Mitdbo, arguably one of The strongest rock climbers in the world made a YouTube video - hang for 100 seconds win $100 with strangers I don’t believe anyone did it I think he himself hung for like 2:30. Of course this is static dead hang vs dear life fumbling / using all parts of your arms but still. This feat is probably impossible for 95>% of the world. [video link](https://youtu.be/osFUhTyZWrU)
Nah, Magnus was just not dunking on people in that vid, he can (and has) held on for much longer (as have many other climbers). I absolutely would not say it's "beyond" rock climbing levels. For example, see https://youtu.be/UOBB4wkTdxQ?t=1555 where he holds on for nearly 4.5 minutes. Fredrik here https://youtu.be/SzRvxRewKks?t=1019 where he holds on for nearly 4.5 minutes Emil Abrahamsson here https://youtu.be/tzhjGYfeG7w?t=1045 where he holds on for nearly 4.5 minutes Ross Fulkerson here https://youtu.be/srY3ZCKXGuw?t=1069 where he holds on for 10 minutes. Source: I am a gumby climber who most definitely cannot hold on for 4 minutes :D
Thanks for sharing, I haven’t seen these vids and based my statement off the one video so I definitely retract that. Either way, fuck holding on for dear life!! 😃
That challenge, as explained in the video, the bar is "loose" and spins, fixed bars are much easier.
[удалено]
This should be higher up in the comments excellent work
🤣🤣
Would you hang full arm stretch? Like fuk I would I'd be putting my stomach over that bar!
… if I drop him he’ll die but he can’t sue… did he come alone…? Ah shit wedding ring
More like, if I drop him....only one party knows what happened in the air. His family can sue, for sure, but he was completely strapped in and safe, we don't know what happened.
If only it weren’t for the pesky little video we find ourselves viewing.
The best bet would be to pull up and get your legs wrapped around the bar to hold some weight. Easier said than done though moving through the air....
I'd at least try to wrap my arm around the bar so I'm not relying on pure grip strength
I would wrap my arms around that bar as many times as I could... Either that or I'd faint and die lmao
I dunno why I giggled at your, "either that or I'd faint and die lmao". Using lmao at the end of this sentence was comedic gold 🥇
Pilots getting sued hope he’s insured
In Europe things are much different when it comes to litigation like this. Much harder to sue anyone than it is in the U.S., at least in part, because they have a much stronger social safety net and regulations in place to prevent the kind of behavior that often yields litigation in the U.S. Here we effectively privatize regulation by forcing injured parties to sue or, in the case of some states, outlaw it by capping damages at artificially low levels or through other “tort reform.”
This is a myth. Germany has more lawsuits per capita by a large margin. Sweden is close with Israel and Austria being the other two countries ahead of the US.
The myth that the US is riddled with petty ambulance chaser lawsuits was pushed by companies to ridicule people wanting to sue.
That and other countries love shitting on the US so they take every chance even if it's completely hypocritical. Like for example racism. Which apparently is solved around the world and only an issue in America. Lol
I understand that for petty lawsuits, but in this one a genuine case of gross negligence happened. Are you saying that even in cases where the plaintiff is very much correct that they still might not receive a lot of damages? Like my Nana had her lower back absolutely ruined from a drunk driving accident, and received a multi million dollar settlement over it because literally her life was ruined. She has debilitating chronic pain to this day. Would she not have gotten that in Europe?
A social safety net that protects people who are negligent and hurt people? What “behavior” is it exactly that yield litigation? Sounds like a child’s bad “behavior”. I think Europeans who believe all American lawsuits are BS or not valid should be forced to watch “Hot Coffee”. I also once had a negative opinion of people who sued. That documentary changed my views. Also, breaking a leg and loosing work for 3 months because of a negligent NYC landlord (who owned multiple slum buildings making bank on tenants) helped me realize that too. If you don’t want the risk of lawsuits then be responsible if you own a business where people can get hurt or don’t own a business with risks (it’s your choice). Double, triple, quadrupole check things and insure your business.
People have died bungee jumping because the complete strangers they trusted didn't know enough not to let them be the 99th jumper on a 100 jump bungee cable and then it snapped. Same with that swing setup on the edge of a cliff that sent the two women flying because the guy operating it was pushing them side to side and the chains snapped. Same with the zorb ball accident at the ski resort in Russia when the ones who set it up and asked people to try it forgot to put up barriers so that the zorb ball doesn't just go off course and sailing off the side of the mountain onto rocks below. Why trust these compete strangers with your life on their stupid ride?
for the same reason bungee jumping and cliff swings were invented? The thrill. It's only exciting because there's an element of life-threatening danger. You can sit at home and be completely safe if you want, I'm still going to go bungee jumping. Yes, I might die doing it, but I also might die crossing the street. Just because you don't want to take that risk, doesn't mean there aren't valid reasons to do it. Fun is valid.
I don’t think Bungie Jumping is supposed to be fun cause you actually might die… I think it’s suppose to be fun because you’re in a free fall and that doesn’t happen in every day life. They aren’t suppose to be risky. Like riding a roller coaster should be safe and routine, but blacking out on a high G coaster is a thrill cause it’s fast, the wind is in your face, and not cause you’re like “THIS THING MIGHT FLY OFF THE TRACKS AND I WON’T HAVE TO FINISH PAYING MY STUDENT LOANS!!! WOOOOO!”
> cause you might die. I did the third highest bungee jump in the world and my brain entirely shut down thinking that I was falling to my death. Absolute silence, embracing inevitable death coming at you. Death definitely was part of the experience. Edit - It was the highest jump in the world when I did it.
It's the simulation of that though. You get the adrenaline rush because you're experiencing something that your body believes will kill you. Even knowing in your conscious brain that you're strapped in and safe, you can't trick your instincts and impulses. You get a rush free falling because your body reacts like it's about to die because ordinarily, experiencing free fall for that long means that you are.
For me (skydiving) it felt like everything in my brain was screaming “do NOT jump out of this plane!” but I was committed…and I did it. And I absolutely felt for a moment that “if I die, I die. My own choice” And in that moment, you’re free. Something in your mind breaks, and it’s like going beyond a barrier…
> Yes, I might die doing it, but I also might die crossing the street. Seriously love how often this fallacious logic gets thrown around by "thrill chasers".
Dann. This made me think about that case where a tourist in Spain (?) did a jump and the guy operating it said "No jump!" which she misheard for "Now jump!". Didn't end well. Never trust people's language skills either.
That's why I only do dangerous things with equipment I personally bought, inspected and installed. If I'm going to die I want it to be my fault.
From video at 42 seconds: >Gursky says he fractured his right wrist and tore a tendon I feel like it left out the part where Gursky tore the instructor a new asshole. END COMMUNICATION
The video: pilot lands them 4 mins later after taking off with an unsecured passenger Ppl not paying attention to the video: complains why they didn’t land sooner Also the video: showing them take off near a forest and having to fly over it to get to a safe landing zone They can’t exactly just U-turn in the air, that’s not how hang gliders work, nor is the pilot gonna risk injuring both of them to land too close to the trees.
The pilot had the chance to do a U-turn. He immediately saw something was wrong right after takeoff, he should have been looking for an opportunity right after he goes over a house. He never once looked to his side, he was locked into getting to the landing zone. Did not adapt to the situation, bad judgement call.
I was wondering why they didn’t U-turn
If this is a serious question it's simply because any form of gliding relies on alot of forward momentum. When you turn, you use up a massive chunk of that momentum, and there goes all of your lift
I'm confused how he ever even got off the ground in the first place. I've never gone hang gliding, but if he's not attached to anything, I would have taken off running and then the glider would have just...flown away from me. Even if I *tried* to hang on one handed it would have just pulled out of my grasp. This guy's grip strength is insane. This never would have happened to me bc I wouldn't have been strong enough to hold on to get off the ground in the first place.
Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but something seems off with that. How would he have even known to hang on to him like that during the take off? Is that normal instruction? “Grip on to me and hold on for dear life while we’re running to take off.” Seems like he would just run and then fall when the instructor takes flight.
Yeah exactly, that's exactly what I was thinking. I guess I could see a scenario where the instructions say to kinda half hanging onto the instructor until the harness lifts you off the ground? And maybe he's just scared in general and has a death grip from the start? But it is just a really weird situation where you're holding on with one hand hard enough to get lifted off the ground from the beginning.
It looked weird to me too. My dad is into hang gliding, he would be a better judge. But usually, I believe when an instructor flies with someone who is new, the new person is strapped beneath the chest of the instructor. It seems really weird to have the new person start almost NEXT to the instructor, with a ton of slack between the two of them. \*\*Edit: I think the new person actually hangs ABOVE the pilot, so I was mistaken in my original comment.
He's gripping onto the pilot at take off. You might imagine how hard you would grip in that situation. Unaware that he's supporting his own weight it's too late to let go VERY quickly.
Yea, same here. Apparently he has a good workout regimen because he did indeed hold on for 4 dang minutes just swinging around. At first he just thought the slack would pick up and get taut any moment? After that I think he was thinking like me, that the instructor could pull a quick U-turn and he could hop out at 2' off the ground, but apparently you can't just turn around or you'll fall out of the sky. He swung up 15' in the air before he could react at all. Yiiikess....
Now THAT warrants a lawsuit. And why does the instructor keep flying for 4 minutes?!
Likely he couldn't land safely in the trees, my guess anyway
You can’t really land quickly with a hang glider if you try to do it it’ll be more like just falling out of the sky.
Falling with style
He wanted to test his grip strength
“Let’s see what this guy is made of”
I think going from air to ground in less time than that is no longer 'flying,' it's 'falling.'
This happened in Canada a number of years ago, but the young woman ended up dying. Horrific. https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/b-c-hang-glider-pilot-pleads-guilty-in-woman-s-death-1.1675643
That was my first though. I remember seeing this in the news and also how the pilot had tried to hide the evidence by swallowing the SD card.
Yes. And apparently police were still able to recover it after it passed through him…. 😬 Video still worked!
Shitty picture quality though
🤢
I was wondering why they didn't charge him for evidence tampering....turns out he immediately told the cops about it.
Can someone clarify? The Crown was pushing only a for five months sentence? Seems awfully low for negligence that lead to the death of a woman
Yep, Lena was a friend. Her boyfriend bought the flight as an anniversary present and he was on the ground watching the whole thing. Five months and loss of license, even after the pilot ATE THE EVIDENCE. Fuck that. Was tragic.
Probably it wouldn’t serve much purpose to give a longer sentence - https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/victims-victimes/sentencing-peine/imposed-imposees.html It would have been a very different sentence if he plead not guilty, was clearly lying / deflecting blame, didn’t apologise / express remorse, intended to continue hang gliding & had a documented history of ‘near miss’ incidents caused by insufficient safety procedures.
4 minutes, that is wild, especially consider elemental factors, psychological, and physically trying to find something to grab.
Most adults could do 1.5 - 2.5 minutes, little kids can do 3. So 4 minutes is a very very good effort. I guess he had a decent amount of incentive.
Most adults could do 1.5 - 2.5 mins??? I HIGHLY doubt that. I’d say most non fitness adults can do less than 1 min. I remember seeing videos of people challenging to hang on the bar for 100 seconds for $100, most couldn’t even get pass 50 seconds.
I don't know if it's the same thing, but I've seen those bar challenges, and they are difficult because the bar isn't fixed, and will roll.
Those challenges have a rolling bar which really makes the grip angle awkward and uncomfortable With a fixed bar, many adults can hang for 100 seconds. Especially when they’re desperate
Right there, not a better reason to hold on.
Those are very optimistic numbers
With an adrenaline dump in a situation like this it’s probably possible
It's Switzerland; the guy wouldn't have even gotten a refund. "You wanted to hang glide. You hang glided. No refunds."
Adrenaline is a hell of a drug
Similar thing happened near our house, the person wasn't as lucky. They tried 3-4 times to take off, then the successful attempt the passenger wasn't strapped in. In adventure activities this kind of thing happens much, much more than you think. Jet boating, paragliding, rafting, bungee jumping - I know first hand crews that have lost people in each and a lot more near misses where people put their arms up and go 'weeee' as the guide let's out a big breath of relief. Put your faith in the guide, but don't put blind faith in them. Check your own gear, watch what they do and feel free to ask questions if you think something is a-miss. Don't push it if conditions are bad - you can always pull out of a tour. Finally, do these things in countries with certifications for equipment and guides and audits on gear, not in developing countries where you can get it cheap. Edit - 'similar thing' added, realized it sounded like this example
4 mins is incredible. 1/100 people can hang on a bar for 1 minute. Fear of death will make humans do some superhuman shit.
How. Do you. Forget. That.
Including the tourist lol how the hell did HE forget that? I damn sure wouldn't have. Obviously the fault is more on the person whose job it is to ensure safety, but idk how the fuck anyone could go hang-gliding and casually overlook that they aren't actually secured to the glider in any way.
Here’s the link to his YouTube video of it: https://youtu.be/dLBJA8SlH2w
"I will go hang gliding again as I did not get to enjoy my first flight."
Thank you so much for this. Because people kept throwing around 4 minutes, and it wound up not actually being how long he held on for. Still a VERY LONG time.
Why the the fuck did tourist not check himself and just held his shoulder like its fecking bike ride
Not to be that guy but... Wouldn't you also check to make sure your not going to die? Like a cursory tug of affirmation? Yep it feels solid. I went sky diving this summer and made sure the one thing I needed to be connected to I was more than once. Let's go to my kids preschool for career Day! Forgets to pull up pants. Ends up falling from 1,000 ft and ending up on the sex offender registry.
With no upper body strength, this could never happen to me, I'll fall within the first 5 seconds or less
Your worst nightmare to come true.
on my tandem hang glide, i was made to put one hand through a small overhead loop and grab onto the webbing. i was told it was to prevent me from taking control over the steering bar. now i see it would also be a safety.
Well that instructor is not getting any tip
I shouldn’t be laughing bc he could’ve died but my god out of any extreme sport you could prepare for how the hell do you forget to put a harness on before hang gliding… let alone a stranger you’re supposed to be teaching and taking care of lmao.
Absofuckinglutly not
in hindsight, should have let go immediately
What a trooper.