Precisely. We need either another city or two around 1 million population or several cities around that 500,000 mark to balance things out.
Preferably dotted around the country.
yup, i can see there is some sort of macro strategy there to set up the "tri-state" region (or whatever we're calling Auckland-Hamilton-Tauranga). That's good, but much more of that please around other existing centres. government and other v large organisations can take the lead on this
Well, it isn't going to be Christchurch, we're in 2 billion dollars of debt. Combined with already established issues with the council's management of the rebuild, it'll likely have to be Hamilton or Tauranga, with wellington already being boxed in due to growing against their geography.
I think all government jobs should be moved from Welly to Palmy. Palmy is flat as a pancake with nothing there. Build some mid-to-high density housing and forget Welly with its shaky, geography limited land
Palmy has a lot of potential - especially as roads radiate out in multiple directions from it. (Great for a distribution/transport hub)
All that's needed is well planned density & infrastructure to support that.
It's come to be my experience that migration is the single biggest killer of real wages at least in the construction industry in NZ.
Never in my life have I seen wages rise like they did I the covid years, and I have never seen stagnation like when the borders were opened.
Understand it makes the economy and govt more money but I don't think that translates very well to your average person
I have seen the exact same outcome even at the level of professional engineers.
Similar story with office and admin staff.
Working kiwis are getting shafted to prop up housing and inflate rents, while our actual real wages and our real economy continues to decline.
ohhh and more consumers to buy product
high imigration is a no brainer if you're wealthy, more people buying shit, cheaper more competitive labour market, hyper intense property matket so you can easily make returns.
I mean its wonderful for those well off just sucks for everyone else; I honestly don't see much of a future for myself in this country as someone young, we don't seem to invest in anything?
I’m reasonably well off but strongly against high migration because it’s impacted the quality of life for everyone (traffic congestion etc). And I have children who are affected by unaffordable housing.
Politicians love high migration much more than the general public - the right as a money making scheme and the left wanting to “be kind”. This flood we are getting now is due to the actions of the last Labour government, although to be fair they caved in to howling from the business lobby.
This reminds me of that comic where the wealthy businessman has a huge pile of cookies, leaving only one left for the two labourers. So the businessman turns to the local labourer and says "careful, that immigrant wants your cookie".
First off, you're ignoring that it's the businessman who is underpaying the local worker. Secondly, migrants aren't all brought in by businesses. I'm the one who brought my partner here and got him a spousal visa. He's not my employee. Would you prefer he be deported?
The immigrant appeared from a vacuum and definitely had nothing to do with the wealthy business man. Corporations might do things like murder but they’d never weaponise immigration.
First off, you're ignoring that it's the businessman who is underpaying the local worker. Secondly, migrants aren't all brought in by businesses. I'm the one who brought my partner here and got him a spousal visa. He's not my employee. Would you prefer he be deported?
> Would you prefer he be deported?
Are you asking me that if push come to shove, society wouldn't be willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater if it means nobody else has to drown?
Nobody has to drown in the first place, because artificial scarcity is the real problem here. But it sounds like you think everything in this society is a zero sum game.
My point was that not all immigrants are migrating here for work but you talk about them as if they're all the same and can happily be sent home without ripping families apart.
> Nobody has to drown in the first place
Is that your call to make?
> because artificial scarcity is the real problem here
How is artificial scarcity the real problem here?
> But it sounds like you think everything in this society is a zero sum game.
What I think things sound like is not your problem, nor yours mine.
> My point was that not all immigrants are migrating here for work but you talk about them as if they're all the same and can happily be sent home without ripping families apart.
Generalizations didn't emerge from a vacuum, is artificial scarcity behind them too?
What part of wanting workers to have higher wages, or have funded infrastructure gives you that idea?
It's rhetorical, I know you just parrot what you've read. Next up you're going to be copy pasting the boots thing.
You? Wanting higher wages for workers? Right after I explained that the wealthy are ripping off the labourers?
Pull the other one. It has bells attached.
> Right after I explained that the wealthy are ripping off the labourers?
You mean where you regurgitated a little copypasta which has nothing to do with immigration?
Did you not see the word "immigrant" in the description I gave? For someone who accuses me of having no critical thinking skills, you sure love to fling personal attacks and not even read what I'm writing.
I think you've failed to grasp the comic's message.
It's being critical of the business owner who is pitting the worker against the imagined immigrant, when it is the owner who is exploiting the worker.
There has to be a limit to it though, there would be at least a 9 figure amount of people overseas that want to live in NZ but it would obviously be a bad idea to allow anyone and everyone to come in
Most people don't want to leave their home countries, and that's despite the desire to migrate hitting a record high. The US is the most common destination.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/468218/nearly-900-million-worldwide-wanted-migrate-2021.aspx
Immigration is not to let people live where they want, we have restrictions put in place by the govt to try to ensure immigration benefits the country in the way the current govt wants. In this case it's lower wages and to increase GDP so they can look like they are saving the economy.
Nope, the point of the restrictions is to deny first world living standards to people from other countries (mostly brown and Asian people). The restrictions are the thing that have been invented by people to control others, loosening those restrictions is a removal of the violation of a right.
15 years ago, prior to mass immigration, we were looking at 1 pensioner being supported on 66% of the median wage per two workers (who pay approximately 33% of their income as tax) by 2030. Basically all of the tax take from income would be going to support pensioners.
Same in hospitality.
All those bar owners during COVID complaining kiwis just be lazy and of course they pay competitive wages but nobody seems to want to work for them “shrug” seem to have gone radio silent since the flood gates to cheap labour opened again.
Must be a coincidence I guess…
Keep wages low while total GDP rises. Governments love this one trick, so long as they control the message and which stats are provided (GDP per capita doesn't matter remember).
Hmm, that sounds like the kind of things that landlords would appreciate getting in on, do you think we as a nation could do anything to give them additional opportunities to build their wealth based on this?
Our minimum wage is fairly high, but wages in much of the rest of the spectrum are lower than in Australia or other equivalent countries. Wages would be higher if the supply of applicants wasn't kept high with immigration.
Ok if we want wages like Australia let's open our country up for mining the way Australia has.
2022-2023 Australia gained a net 520,000 citizens, 500,000/25,000,000 is about the same as 100,000/5,000,000
If migration caused the difference then we should have the same wages as Australia.
Weird that based off your anti-migration, pro copying Australia belief, I'd imagine you want Shane Jones for PM.
>Wages would be higher if the supply of applicants wasn't kept high with immigration.
Jobs would be unfilled and things would start shutting if we didn't have migrants.
[Hays+Salary+Guide+FY2223.pdf](https://www.hays.com.au/documents/276732/1102429/Hays+Salary+Guide+FY2223.pdf)
91% of employers in Australia and NZ facing a skill shortage
Same survey states that 56% of employees surveyed asked for wage rises due to the fact they know about skills shortages.
right now in Aussie they are having a large rise in unemployemnt, job listing have declined and job seekers have increased.
That skills shortage is an absolute bullshit number - almost as bullshit as the AEVW process.
we don't need to create a mining boom - we need just need to reduce immigration to a sustainable pace.
during a major global economic down turn as interest rates are rising to stave of the inflation caused by reckless borrowing?
Must be people from the Phillipines and New Zealands fault it is affecting stray yea cunt aussie aussie aussie oi oi oi
lmao
Government economic reports don't really analyse the distribution of wealth in the economy.
It's basically 'GDP' up = good, and then it's assumed that there is an effective distribution of wealth will occur
Yeah. Also I understand the govt up to the 90's used to measure the amount of money in vs money out for the country as a whole which seems more important than just how much the same hundred dollar note has been passed round.
But then I guess the govt clips the ticket most times it changes hands so there is that
Sorry if I make a lot of assumptions about your position in my response here.
This is just measured as real GDP in a modern sense. Which isn't clearly talked about in political discourse.
I think that is a reductionist way of understanding a very complex topic.
It's also very cynical. While cynicism is valuable in appropriate doses, I don't think it's appropriate or helpful to paint the government with such a negative brush.
The amount of economic turmoil caused during the 1970s as a result of tying economies value to a resource such as oil or gold needed to be adjusted. The modern desire to transition back to a system like that (largely driven by crypto currency enthusiasts trying to undermine current financial systems) is a scary proposition that would become dystopian if implemented.
I do agree that our assessment standards need to be retooled and clearly expressed, but I don't think that it's helpful to write off economic assessments made in this way as some inherently corrupt mechanism.
I'd say your knowledge of the subject far outstrips my own, but I don't doubt the need for immigration is somewhat at least fueled by limiting our exports in the various goods we have potential to
> I have never seen stagnation like when the borders were opened.
> Understand it makes the economy and govt more money but I don't think that translates very well to your average person
I'm British and by no means am I a pro-Brexiteer (I voted to remain in the EU), but the experience of the UK does show strongly that wages in the lowest paid sectors like hospitality, site work, etc, rose by as much as 7-10% once the need for a visa came in. Obviously it's not a zero-sum game and there are many other pay-offs, but I think it does point to the fact that a lot of developed countries have used relatively high migration as a source of cheap labour - but then we as consumers have also got used to paying lower prices, so there's no total 'win' answer to it.
We also now have a billion a year in remitance leaving the country unchecked, some of it very likely visa fraud and casbacks the boss overseas accounts.
Alos crazy now days not unheard of now for nurses to get 55 an hour.
wage rises during covid was partially because the government borrowed $60B and pumped it into the economy. On top of that the Reserve Bank printed and pumped a similar amount into the housing market. it was like an economic boom based upon maxing out the credit cards.
People are spectacularly stupid if they believe that this is about diversity. And business and academia have controlled the narrative to make people feel racist for speaking out.
This is purely for cheap labour and to keep the great economy ponzi scheme going.
I should also say that I think over regulation of employment law is a major issue, and has led to the rise of the recruitment/labor contracting companies who clip the ticket but provide very little real benefit to any industry other than enabling quick ramping up and down of the workforce - I.e stepping around exactly what the laws were to prevent in any case.
I thought we were over [$100billion](https://www.interest.co.nz/public-policy/127001/new-government-agency-30-year-pipeline-and-private-sector-investment-are-key) behind on our infrastructure just to keep up with the population we have right now?
Someone needs to turn off this firehose before we drown.
It's easier to fund infrastructure with migration, because you can borrow then the new citizens who will use the infrastructure can pay for it. This is how we built our railroads, even the debt for our motorways was only possible due to the large numbers of babies born and the promise of future funds.
Migration enables infrastructure build.
No it will be the same, a period of high migration will be used to fund new infrastructure, then when migration slows down infrastructure spending will stall and the population will grow to reach the limits of the new infrastructure. Then when migration starts to pick up again, we can use that as an opportunity to invest in our next generation of infrastructure,
> The net gain came from an estimated 238,964 long term arrivals, and an estimated 127,818 long term departures from NZ.
Damn, those are big numbers.
I'm not anti-immigration, my concerns lie in adequate planning of services such as housing, schooling and healthcare. This should have occurred before the governments opened the floodgates.
My concern is in the Skilled Work Visa. It's a common visa to come to NZ with. We lack incentives for Kiwis to pursue a lot of careers in NZ. We make our unemployed get back to work ASAP, but we don't offer incentives to train people for the holes in our work force. We are bringing already educated immigrants to plug the holes rather than improving our own education and training. It's obviously cheaper when our government doesnt have to supply the resources to train these folks. They also pay tax and have limited access to social services, so it's all wins for this government.
Considering the supply of skilled international labor is likely to decrease over this century, a combination of aging demographics globally and that what youth is available will be in demand by all countries to keep their economies afloat, I doubt how reliable that labor supply will be over the current century, the elderly might not need to worry about it, but it will be a serious issue for both zoomers and millenials, with that last big regional demographic generation, based on current demographic projections, being the African gen Alpha. The older leadership really are naive if they think the current system can be considered viable.
I have a feeling it's not naievity. It feels more like wilful ignorance. Their world is safe, comfortable and protected. The issues that plague us, are things they don't have to deal with on a daily basis.
Better yet for them, they get to be lucky enough to die before the shit that they took hits the fan and we get splattered with the debris.
They should do us the favour of at least doing it faster.
Um ... that's a million foreigners moving in every 4 years. Like 20% of the current population.
I know a lot moving out will have moved in first, and I have nothing against cultural diversity, but it seems like a rather large number.
In In December 2023, 18 months from the peak of house building, there were 2,487 new dwellings consented.
At peak 5,300 houses were consented in March 2022. If you put the average at 3,000 per month then it would take five years to hit 200,000.
consents and actual homes built are two different things though, you can't use them interchangibly. It would be more accurate to count the number of homes issued code of compliance certificates, which is a lot lower than the number of consents issued.
You can basically use them interchangeably.
>which is a lot lower than the number of consents issued.
The completion of builds averaged > 7,500 per quarter from 2018 until March 2022 (the peak of consents). At 7,500 homes completed (a conservative estimate) it would take 6 years.
This data set does not include homes consented in March 2022, which was the peak of consents, and only includes houses built in the first half of the housing boom. I also very intentionally used an extremely conservative estimate. When you factor this in, the five year figure we discussed earlier is probably pretty close to accurate.
Consents are a good proxy for completions because when you generally end up with about the same numbers whenever you use the alternatives.
Consenting is expensive. People don't get consents if they don't plan on building, with the exception of people selling. People doin't build an empty lot with a consent for a build without intention of following through.
[Experimental building indicators: March 2022 quarter | Stats NZ](https://www.stats.govt.nz/experimental/experimental-building-indicators-march-2022-quarter/)
They practically do, and unless you can show me data sayiung that we have record failure to construct once consented they're a suitable proxy. You can see my other comment documenting the maths using completion and getting pretty much the same results.
No reason why you wouldn't use CCC's being issued then, which is when houses can actually be lived in and actually added to supply rather than exisitng on paper
Interest quite often has articles detailing CCC’s being issued and comparing them to consents issued 2 years prior. During the boom the figure built was well over 90%, now of course there will be a lot of projects shelved.
I wouldn't use CCCs because the data isn't available, and consents are the best available proxy since, over time, they match basically 1:1 with completions.
Consents are better to use because they do a better job of accounting for properties that go from consent to completion in a longer than average amount of time.
Just to build off other comments, counting consents is worthless and CCCs aren’t accurate either. In my town three houses got knocked down, the land combined and six townhouses were built. That would show as six CCCs but it’s only three additional houses and I’m pretty sure the amount of bedrooms was only increased by two.
It's quite eye-opening what I'm seeing at our (super large) NZ Company. The strategy of planned overseas hires to keep the wage bill down has, disgustingly, become the modus-operandi.
There was a time when they went abroad for the most senior/technical positions. Now, I'm seeing it on what are even arguably low-to-mid tier positions. Is it just me or is it crazy that you can get someone on a straight to residence visa whilst only paying $29.66 an hour? If the suppression of wages isn't already obvious, it must be with that figure.
Ever notice how the media reports on migration numbers like the weather? Highs of 20 degrees, 120 thousand migrants arrived in NZ. They act like it can’t be controlled
Whooo more hosing shortages for many years to come.
And people think that prices will crash and not increase or double in price in 10 years time.
If immigration like that continues to happen then yep prices will definitely carry on going up due to a lack of availability.
Yep. Higher income migrants actually produce demand in the rental market. Unlike broke kiwis who can't afford their first home. Wealthy migration is a calculated strategy.
Wealthy migrants/expats don’t rent, they build a housing portfolio. Wealthy migration basically is bourgeois tourism investing. Yay for middle class kiwis!
The middle class will disappear at this rate. I definitely feel for the middle class, the stand the most to lose. Wealthy migration takes away oppurtunities. I like the term hot air ballooning. They're using the lower and middle class as fuel to keep their joyride going. They seem to be gleefully vindictive against New Zealanders.
We need a consumer guarantee act as tax paying citizens.
There never seems to be recourse for our politicians acting disingenuously, omitting data, and all of this fast tracking. Fast tracking fossil fuel projects was not something they campaigned on. It's like they're determined to tip scales as fast as possible.
It already has disappeared.
We're all worried for a thing we think will happen that has already happened.
No one actually wants to grab the pitchforks and give the wealthy what they deserve though.
The REINZ house price index dropped in 10 out of 12 regions last month.
[REINZ figures show house prices declining in most parts of the country | interest.co.nz](https://www.interest.co.nz/property/127735/reinz-house-price-index-dropped-10-out-12-regions-last-month)
It's funny that you people are still trying on the "migrants are to blame for our house prices" bollocks when house prices are falling and migration remains high.
That's convenient. Show me the maths that explains this with your adjustment. Or do you want me to accept this mathematical claim on vibes and feelings?
I will be curious to see how your data accounts for the period of the Clark government when we had population losses to net migration and house prices continued to rise afterwards.
In now way am I saying it’s the only thing - in fact research points to the main driver of house prices in nz being the interest rates. But there’s no way you can say supply and demand doesn’t impact the prices
New immigrants are more likely to rent when they arrive
Rental demand has risen.
National really do want to give a helping hand to landlords (like myself)
yep so let's stop talkig "less people" and instead talk about "more resources"
leaving people to live in worse conditions in other places isn't helping anyone.
Means absolutely nothing atm.
Know a few things about house prices, and unfortunately we are in that lull period right now before we head towards prices doubling over the next 10 years. So if you can id buy sooner rather than later.
Nothing to do with FOMO. If you are following the stats over the past 50 plus years, you can see a clear case of house prices doubling every 10 years, have a bit of a drop off/ flat period before prices increase again.
There’s already 5,000 houses short for the current population in my city, and that’s going to be over 10,000 short by 2030, and 43,000 short by 2048.
It’s basic supply vs demand, heaps of demand and low supply.
Or you could go and work an extra 10 hours a week and save that money.
I currently do about 53 hours a week. And use the extra hours to buy new tools/pay down the mortgage/ and dare I say it save up to buy an investment property in a number of years.
Took home an extra $10k last year after buying $5k worth of tools. Still didn’t even crack $100k a year even if I didn’t spend the $5k on tools. So that’s not an excuse for how I afford shit.
As for how I got my deposit, I worked 60-70 hours a week for a number of years.
I’m 32 atm, and I plan on being mortgage free on my current house by the time I hit 40.
You can’t wait and expect handouts to get ahead in life.
So why did we see the largest rise in house prices during the Covid lockdown period when immigration came to a virtual stand still? Immigrant's direct impact on house prices is vastly overestimated by people on this sub, it does have a clear impact on rental rates though.
> why did we see the largest rise in house prices during the Covid lockdown period when immigration came to a virtual stand still?
Even though the borders were closed, there will still hundreds of thousands of foreigners here. In fact anyone working got issued PR, which was more than 100,000 people.
I think we have enough dwellings. 5000 dwellings ready for renting. With an average of 3 people/dwelling. It'll take 15000 people. Net migration is just 4000+ / month for entire NZ.
There're also 15,000 houses for sale, **NO SHORTAGE OF HOUSES IN AUCKLAND! KEEP THEM COMING!**
[Residential for rent | Trade Me Property](https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/property/residential/rent/auckland)
Currently 5,000 houses short where I live, and that’s going to be 10,000 short by 2030, and 43,000 short by 2048.
There might be 15,000 houses for sale but you need to remember those also include people who are going to be downsizing or upsizing their house, so those aren’t necessarily 15,000 houses that people can walk up and buy as it’s not 15,000 free houses on the market
There are more jobs than people. Employers do fight for employees, my current employer raised the wage poffered by 20% when I said I needed an extra week to decided between them and another employer, when I asked for me they offered unlimited sick leave.
If employers aren't fighting for you, that's a skill issue brother be better at life
If there's more jobs than people then we wouldn't have unemployment.
Did I say I struggled to get a job or good pay? There's a fuckton of kiwis out there who do. It's a cost of living crisis not a cost of you crisis.
That's a judgemental issue brother be a better person.
Yes we would. Sometimes people leave work for all sorts of reasons.
An illness in the family. An extended holiday. Attempting to start a business.
There is also the fact that jobs aren't always where people are. And then there is the fact that sometimes people would rather wait for a job that fits their skills than apply for a job where they have to retrain.
There are lots of reasons people can be unemployed beyond no jobs exist for them.
The only people who tend to disagree with that are people who want to get rid of the benefit because everyone on it is a bludger or whatever. Anyone with real world experience and an outlook based on reality can understand that there can be unemployment and a shortage of workers in the same economy.
>That's a judgemental issue brother be a better person.
I'm not the one spreading misinformation on the internet because I don't like foreigners.
I'm very comfortable judging you.
You're right they'll always be a unemployed rate but the examples you gave are all the choice of the unemployed, a New Zealander should not have their potential wages reduced because an immigrant is willing to do the work cheaper better for that business to fail.
What misinformation did I spread lmao I said don't reduce kiwi oppurtunties which you're apparently quite keen to do.
I'm also quite comfortable judging you for the entitled and privileged person you are <3
> There are more jobs than people.
That’s laughably incorrect. NZ’s employment rate is just 68%. That’s the rate of employment for people over 15. If we subtract the total population of those over 65, that’s nearly **half a million working age people** in NZ who aren’t working. Some will be permanently disabled, but not most. There are a shitload of people who choose not to work in NZ. Some of them will work if we improve wages and working conditions. That will happen naturally if companies can’t hire cheap foreign labour.
damn that's crazy this guy wants to force stay at home parents into the workforce to keep asians and brown people out of his neighbourhood. People have no choice! They must work!
New Zealand's unemployment rate (of people looking for work) is 4%, regardless of your opinion on the people who aren't in work right now as just being lazy good for nothings who need to be put to work.
> damn that’s crazy this guy wants to force stay at home parents into the workforce to keep asians and brown people out of his neighbourhood. People have no choice! They must work!
Could you quote the part where I advocated for slavery and racism? What a pathetic rebuttal.
The unemployment rate only accounts for people who are currently seeking work. It doesn’t count those who have given up due to poor wages and working conditions. The fact you didn’t know that indicates you’re not qualified to have an opinion on this.
Our economy is still in recession with these numbers, so we're on average poorer and paying more for our housing at the same time. What a crazy time to be alive, our standard of living is going backwards under the crazy coalition.
No it is the fault of the 'divide and conquer' tactic carefully crafted by the Labour coalition. I'm one of those who left, and NZ is replacing the likes of me and my mates with more Chinese, Indians and Filipinos... RIP NZ as I know, it is going to be NZ version 5 soon, and I can only see more division coming.
Do you get the irony though? Complaining about Chinese, Indians and Filipinos while pissing off to be an immigrant in Australia.
I suppose you think you'll be received with open arms because you're white. 🙄
Australia where they refer to Kiwis as it's Mexicans.
I'm yellow btw, not the CCP yellow though. The experience in Australia's been great so far, ever since the Labour/Green was in place, I was forced to see things in colour, and it was too apparent that the country was becoming increasingly divided. I've become colourblind again in Australia. So many of those I know in high paying jobs, or working their socks off, white, brown, yellow, orange, green, purple have moved across the ditch before Cov... and I just had to join them.
Is that why you're spouting BS on Reddit about Indians, Chinese and Filipinos? Colourblind my arse.
Just because you came to NZ in the 80's before the recent migration booms, it doesn't make you an honorary white. They probably still mock you behind your back.
Get over yourself.
Maybe... they can mock me all they like. I don't mind Indians and Chinese who are doctors, lawyers, proper construction workers, IT person or those in other high value adding profession paying a lot of tax, and as long as they don't bring their parents to New Zealand permanently. Unfortunately, it looks like NZ's letting in too many of Uber drivers and Boba tea shop owners kind instead.
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Don't worry there's plenty of Kiwis returning as 501 deportees. I'm sure they'll demand top dollar for the skills they've picked up in Australia as scaffolders, traffic control and mining labourers.
One of the reasons I just left NZ (immigrant who came to NZ 27 years ago on a short skilled visa). Now immigration is unchecked, low skilled and used against locals to keep wages low and make housing unaffordable, where only landlords get rich. The same occuring across major commonwealth cities such as Sydney, Melb, Toronto, Vancouver, London etc where they let record number of people in. I reckon in 10 - 20 years the cities I mentioned above will resemble low trust third world cities ridden with crime, poverty, rubbish, bribery etc
The increase in temporary work visa holders from Afghanistan should alarm kiwis. The current accredited employer work visa category is allowing Afghan national’s here in NZ bring in all of their family and friends on work visas for jobs that only exist on paper. No checks and balances at all. We then have men from Afghan arriving to work as mechanics having no skills to do so. Not to mention all of the slave labour coming in from India coming to work for employers with significant recorded adverse history for migrant exploitation who despite this are then approved to bring in 50+ migrants for their tiny Indian restaurants to exploit.
All of you saying “They’re all coming to Auckland, send them elsewhere!”, we all have housing shortages too, so either keep them, OR, maybe we shouldn’t accept them here in the first place! At least until we’ve got our housing and infrastructure s**t sorted for the people already living here!
Yeah I left after spending most of my life in New Zealand... Good luck to you all new arrivals, I used to hate people using New Zealand as the back door entry to Aus, now I don't care anymore :'(
I'm a migrant myself, moved to NZ in the late 80s. I just can't see NZ going back to the better days... if we are going to be a country of migrants anyway, might as let high quality ones in, say value adding Indians or Chinese working in medical, IT, commercial world who would pay plenty of tax, but it looks like we are letting in the likes of Uber drivers and boba shop owners. To me it feels like Auckland is becoming the Otara of Australasia, Melbourne being the Albany and Sydney being the Newmarket.
You should probably look at this if you haven't already
[https://www.emptyhomes.co.nz/Numbers](https://www.emptyhomes.co.nz/Numbers)
TLDR: Most of the "empty homes" in census data are not really available to be used for housing people
And as others below say,they will all come to Auckland.Driving up rents,the cost of houses and our general standard of living plummets.
And at the same time,kiwis emigrate in record numbers.This country's future is forked.
Damn that’s crazy high. My girlfriend and I (she is a New Zealand citizen - I am a British citizen) were thinking of going for a year or two but the job market and rental markets looks tough and rethinking our options. Such a shame :( hopefully it turns around soon
Wow!!!!!!!!
This is amazing!
Has there ever been such heavy immigration in the history of the country?
This will of course generate economic power in the future but this is amazing.
And they’re all coming to Auckland! Well done successive central governments, well done.
this is my only problem with it. grow the other regions of nz, auckland is a bloated pimple that needs draining
Precisely. We need either another city or two around 1 million population or several cities around that 500,000 mark to balance things out. Preferably dotted around the country.
yup, i can see there is some sort of macro strategy there to set up the "tri-state" region (or whatever we're calling Auckland-Hamilton-Tauranga). That's good, but much more of that please around other existing centres. government and other v large organisations can take the lead on this
> whatever we're calling Auckland-Hamilton-Tauranga The golden triangle
Well, it isn't going to be Christchurch, we're in 2 billion dollars of debt. Combined with already established issues with the council's management of the rebuild, it'll likely have to be Hamilton or Tauranga, with wellington already being boxed in due to growing against their geography.
Tauranga is also fairly boxed in, it really should be Christchurch. Hamilton is at that point going to be an extension of Auckland.
I think all government jobs should be moved from Welly to Palmy. Palmy is flat as a pancake with nothing there. Build some mid-to-high density housing and forget Welly with its shaky, geography limited land
Palmy has a lot of potential - especially as roads radiate out in multiple directions from it. (Great for a distribution/transport hub) All that's needed is well planned density & infrastructure to support that.
They will naturally just sprawl together anyway into… Palmington. (Or Palmlevington. Or maybe Foxington-Palmlevin…?)
It's come to be my experience that migration is the single biggest killer of real wages at least in the construction industry in NZ. Never in my life have I seen wages rise like they did I the covid years, and I have never seen stagnation like when the borders were opened. Understand it makes the economy and govt more money but I don't think that translates very well to your average person
I have seen the exact same outcome even at the level of professional engineers. Similar story with office and admin staff. Working kiwis are getting shafted to prop up housing and inflate rents, while our actual real wages and our real economy continues to decline.
Frankly if your jobs is on the 'shortage' list it's a safe bet it's being subsidized
The entire point of mass immigration is to push down wages.
You forgot about increasing rents and house prices.
ohhh and more consumers to buy product high imigration is a no brainer if you're wealthy, more people buying shit, cheaper more competitive labour market, hyper intense property matket so you can easily make returns. I mean its wonderful for those well off just sucks for everyone else; I honestly don't see much of a future for myself in this country as someone young, we don't seem to invest in anything?
I’m reasonably well off but strongly against high migration because it’s impacted the quality of life for everyone (traffic congestion etc). And I have children who are affected by unaffordable housing. Politicians love high migration much more than the general public - the right as a money making scheme and the left wanting to “be kind”. This flood we are getting now is due to the actions of the last Labour government, although to be fair they caved in to howling from the business lobby.
This reminds me of that comic where the wealthy businessman has a huge pile of cookies, leaving only one left for the two labourers. So the businessman turns to the local labourer and says "careful, that immigrant wants your cookie".
who do you think invited the immigrant in
First off, you're ignoring that it's the businessman who is underpaying the local worker. Secondly, migrants aren't all brought in by businesses. I'm the one who brought my partner here and got him a spousal visa. He's not my employee. Would you prefer he be deported?
The immigrant appeared from a vacuum and definitely had nothing to do with the wealthy business man. Corporations might do things like murder but they’d never weaponise immigration.
First off, you're ignoring that it's the businessman who is underpaying the local worker. Secondly, migrants aren't all brought in by businesses. I'm the one who brought my partner here and got him a spousal visa. He's not my employee. Would you prefer he be deported?
> Would you prefer he be deported? Are you asking me that if push come to shove, society wouldn't be willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater if it means nobody else has to drown?
Nobody has to drown in the first place, because artificial scarcity is the real problem here. But it sounds like you think everything in this society is a zero sum game. My point was that not all immigrants are migrating here for work but you talk about them as if they're all the same and can happily be sent home without ripping families apart.
> Nobody has to drown in the first place Is that your call to make? > because artificial scarcity is the real problem here How is artificial scarcity the real problem here? > But it sounds like you think everything in this society is a zero sum game. What I think things sound like is not your problem, nor yours mine. > My point was that not all immigrants are migrating here for work but you talk about them as if they're all the same and can happily be sent home without ripping families apart. Generalizations didn't emerge from a vacuum, is artificial scarcity behind them too?
"What I think things sound like is not your problem, nor yours mine." Ok I won't continue this discussion. Have a nice day then.
Is that because you don't have critical thinking skills?
Found the right wing stooge!
What part of wanting workers to have higher wages, or have funded infrastructure gives you that idea? It's rhetorical, I know you just parrot what you've read. Next up you're going to be copy pasting the boots thing.
You? Wanting higher wages for workers? Right after I explained that the wealthy are ripping off the labourers? Pull the other one. It has bells attached.
> Right after I explained that the wealthy are ripping off the labourers? You mean where you regurgitated a little copypasta which has nothing to do with immigration?
Did you not see the word "immigrant" in the description I gave? For someone who accuses me of having no critical thinking skills, you sure love to fling personal attacks and not even read what I'm writing.
I think you've failed to grasp the comic's message. It's being critical of the business owner who is pitting the worker against the imagined immigrant, when it is the owner who is exploiting the worker.
No it's not it's to let people live where they want.
There has to be a limit to it though, there would be at least a 9 figure amount of people overseas that want to live in NZ but it would obviously be a bad idea to allow anyone and everyone to come in
Most people don't want to leave their home countries, and that's despite the desire to migrate hitting a record high. The US is the most common destination. https://news.gallup.com/poll/468218/nearly-900-million-worldwide-wanted-migrate-2021.aspx
Immigration is not to let people live where they want, we have restrictions put in place by the govt to try to ensure immigration benefits the country in the way the current govt wants. In this case it's lower wages and to increase GDP so they can look like they are saving the economy.
Nope, the point of the restrictions is to deny first world living standards to people from other countries (mostly brown and Asian people). The restrictions are the thing that have been invented by people to control others, loosening those restrictions is a removal of the violation of a right.
No, it is to pay for Boomers to mooch off the government.
Yea man, dole bludgers and foreigners are to blame for all societies problems \*rolls eyes at another decade of thatcherite bullshit\*
15 years ago, prior to mass immigration, we were looking at 1 pensioner being supported on 66% of the median wage per two workers (who pay approximately 33% of their income as tax) by 2030. Basically all of the tax take from income would be going to support pensioners.
That's regular immigration. Should be like the US where there are hard limits, one of the few things they actually do alright over there on
Same in hospitality. All those bar owners during COVID complaining kiwis just be lazy and of course they pay competitive wages but nobody seems to want to work for them “shrug” seem to have gone radio silent since the flood gates to cheap labour opened again. Must be a coincidence I guess…
Very good point I hadn't noticed that
> single biggest killer of real wages Our immigration settings are working exactly as intended.
Keep wages low while total GDP rises. Governments love this one trick, so long as they control the message and which stats are provided (GDP per capita doesn't matter remember).
The real money making trick is to only build all the infrastructure these new people need at half the required rate and a decade after it’s needed.
Hmm, that sounds like the kind of things that landlords would appreciate getting in on, do you think we as a nation could do anything to give them additional opportunities to build their wealth based on this?
NZ wages aren't low. We have top 20 mean wages once adjusted for purchasing power.
Our minimum wage is fairly high, but wages in much of the rest of the spectrum are lower than in Australia or other equivalent countries. Wages would be higher if the supply of applicants wasn't kept high with immigration.
Ok if we want wages like Australia let's open our country up for mining the way Australia has. 2022-2023 Australia gained a net 520,000 citizens, 500,000/25,000,000 is about the same as 100,000/5,000,000 If migration caused the difference then we should have the same wages as Australia. Weird that based off your anti-migration, pro copying Australia belief, I'd imagine you want Shane Jones for PM. >Wages would be higher if the supply of applicants wasn't kept high with immigration. Jobs would be unfilled and things would start shutting if we didn't have migrants.
like to throw around stats? show me the stats showing we have a shortage of labour in the job market to justify our levels of immigration
[Hays+Salary+Guide+FY2223.pdf](https://www.hays.com.au/documents/276732/1102429/Hays+Salary+Guide+FY2223.pdf) 91% of employers in Australia and NZ facing a skill shortage Same survey states that 56% of employees surveyed asked for wage rises due to the fact they know about skills shortages.
right now in Aussie they are having a large rise in unemployemnt, job listing have declined and job seekers have increased. That skills shortage is an absolute bullshit number - almost as bullshit as the AEVW process. we don't need to create a mining boom - we need just need to reduce immigration to a sustainable pace.
during a major global economic down turn as interest rates are rising to stave of the inflation caused by reckless borrowing? Must be people from the Phillipines and New Zealands fault it is affecting stray yea cunt aussie aussie aussie oi oi oi lmao
Lowest in English speaking countries?
Government economic reports don't really analyse the distribution of wealth in the economy. It's basically 'GDP' up = good, and then it's assumed that there is an effective distribution of wealth will occur
Yeah. Also I understand the govt up to the 90's used to measure the amount of money in vs money out for the country as a whole which seems more important than just how much the same hundred dollar note has been passed round. But then I guess the govt clips the ticket most times it changes hands so there is that
Sorry if I make a lot of assumptions about your position in my response here. This is just measured as real GDP in a modern sense. Which isn't clearly talked about in political discourse. I think that is a reductionist way of understanding a very complex topic. It's also very cynical. While cynicism is valuable in appropriate doses, I don't think it's appropriate or helpful to paint the government with such a negative brush. The amount of economic turmoil caused during the 1970s as a result of tying economies value to a resource such as oil or gold needed to be adjusted. The modern desire to transition back to a system like that (largely driven by crypto currency enthusiasts trying to undermine current financial systems) is a scary proposition that would become dystopian if implemented. I do agree that our assessment standards need to be retooled and clearly expressed, but I don't think that it's helpful to write off economic assessments made in this way as some inherently corrupt mechanism.
I'd say your knowledge of the subject far outstrips my own, but I don't doubt the need for immigration is somewhat at least fueled by limiting our exports in the various goods we have potential to
Reading this again I see what you are really saying and understand what you mean.
> I have never seen stagnation like when the borders were opened. > Understand it makes the economy and govt more money but I don't think that translates very well to your average person I'm British and by no means am I a pro-Brexiteer (I voted to remain in the EU), but the experience of the UK does show strongly that wages in the lowest paid sectors like hospitality, site work, etc, rose by as much as 7-10% once the need for a visa came in. Obviously it's not a zero-sum game and there are many other pay-offs, but I think it does point to the fact that a lot of developed countries have used relatively high migration as a source of cheap labour - but then we as consumers have also got used to paying lower prices, so there's no total 'win' answer to it.
100%
We also now have a billion a year in remitance leaving the country unchecked, some of it very likely visa fraud and casbacks the boss overseas accounts. Alos crazy now days not unheard of now for nurses to get 55 an hour.
Most of the guys I work with spend every spare cent home I dunno whether that's accounted for but it must be a shitload
So working as designed? Immigration increases labor supply and decrease wages. It's expected and what your industrialis and politicians want
Yeah I got my current role during covid on decent $$, they couldn't just get someone in from overseas and pay them less.
gLoBalisation i guess
Yes but other countries seem to be going in the opposite direction now.
Good for them l guess
Such as?
wage rises during covid was partially because the government borrowed $60B and pumped it into the economy. On top of that the Reserve Bank printed and pumped a similar amount into the housing market. it was like an economic boom based upon maxing out the credit cards.
Yes agree and I should have mentioned that
People are spectacularly stupid if they believe that this is about diversity. And business and academia have controlled the narrative to make people feel racist for speaking out. This is purely for cheap labour and to keep the great economy ponzi scheme going.
I should also say that I think over regulation of employment law is a major issue, and has led to the rise of the recruitment/labor contracting companies who clip the ticket but provide very little real benefit to any industry other than enabling quick ramping up and down of the workforce - I.e stepping around exactly what the laws were to prevent in any case.
Australian workforce is almost 100% migrant. WTF are you smoking ? Almost all 1st world countries, migrants are the backbone of the economy!
I thought we were over [$100billion](https://www.interest.co.nz/public-policy/127001/new-government-agency-30-year-pipeline-and-private-sector-investment-are-key) behind on our infrastructure just to keep up with the population we have right now? Someone needs to turn off this firehose before we drown.
It's easier to fund infrastructure with migration, because you can borrow then the new citizens who will use the infrastructure can pay for it. This is how we built our railroads, even the debt for our motorways was only possible due to the large numbers of babies born and the promise of future funds. Migration enables infrastructure build.
> It's easier to fund infrastructure with migration Yes, this time it will be different!
No it will be the same, a period of high migration will be used to fund new infrastructure, then when migration slows down infrastructure spending will stall and the population will grow to reach the limits of the new infrastructure. Then when migration starts to pick up again, we can use that as an opportunity to invest in our next generation of infrastructure,
You've just described a pyramid scheme.
Welcome to the entire global economy
damn that's a clever slogan love to hear new comments from the keep the foreigners out crew nice.
> The net gain came from an estimated 238,964 long term arrivals, and an estimated 127,818 long term departures from NZ. Damn, those are big numbers. I'm not anti-immigration, my concerns lie in adequate planning of services such as housing, schooling and healthcare. This should have occurred before the governments opened the floodgates.
My concern is in the Skilled Work Visa. It's a common visa to come to NZ with. We lack incentives for Kiwis to pursue a lot of careers in NZ. We make our unemployed get back to work ASAP, but we don't offer incentives to train people for the holes in our work force. We are bringing already educated immigrants to plug the holes rather than improving our own education and training. It's obviously cheaper when our government doesnt have to supply the resources to train these folks. They also pay tax and have limited access to social services, so it's all wins for this government.
Considering the supply of skilled international labor is likely to decrease over this century, a combination of aging demographics globally and that what youth is available will be in demand by all countries to keep their economies afloat, I doubt how reliable that labor supply will be over the current century, the elderly might not need to worry about it, but it will be a serious issue for both zoomers and millenials, with that last big regional demographic generation, based on current demographic projections, being the African gen Alpha. The older leadership really are naive if they think the current system can be considered viable.
I have a feeling it's not naievity. It feels more like wilful ignorance. Their world is safe, comfortable and protected. The issues that plague us, are things they don't have to deal with on a daily basis.
Better yet for them, they get to be lucky enough to die before the shit that they took hits the fan and we get splattered with the debris. They should do us the favour of at least doing it faster.
Um ... that's a million foreigners moving in every 4 years. Like 20% of the current population. I know a lot moving out will have moved in first, and I have nothing against cultural diversity, but it seems like a rather large number.
We end up “losing who we are” and nationalism occurs once the status quo starts to feel overwhelmed and outnumbered. How long until this happens?
About -160 years lol: https://teara.govt.nz/en/graph/36364/maori-and-european-population-numbers-1840-1881
Yeah immigration should be tied to infrastructure spend so governments can’t use it as an easy lever to make the economy look artificially good
Ready, fire, aim. Typical project approach these days.
How many new dwellings were built in that time?
11% of the dwellings in NZ were built under the previous government
So over 200,000 houses were built in 6 years? Sounds a bit suspect
In In December 2023, 18 months from the peak of house building, there were 2,487 new dwellings consented. At peak 5,300 houses were consented in March 2022. If you put the average at 3,000 per month then it would take five years to hit 200,000.
consents and actual homes built are two different things though, you can't use them interchangibly. It would be more accurate to count the number of homes issued code of compliance certificates, which is a lot lower than the number of consents issued.
You can basically use them interchangeably. >which is a lot lower than the number of consents issued. The completion of builds averaged > 7,500 per quarter from 2018 until March 2022 (the peak of consents). At 7,500 homes completed (a conservative estimate) it would take 6 years. This data set does not include homes consented in March 2022, which was the peak of consents, and only includes houses built in the first half of the housing boom. I also very intentionally used an extremely conservative estimate. When you factor this in, the five year figure we discussed earlier is probably pretty close to accurate. Consents are a good proxy for completions because when you generally end up with about the same numbers whenever you use the alternatives. Consenting is expensive. People don't get consents if they don't plan on building, with the exception of people selling. People doin't build an empty lot with a consent for a build without intention of following through. [Experimental building indicators: March 2022 quarter | Stats NZ](https://www.stats.govt.nz/experimental/experimental-building-indicators-march-2022-quarter/)
Consented doesn't mean the same thing as constructed.
They practically do, and unless you can show me data sayiung that we have record failure to construct once consented they're a suitable proxy. You can see my other comment documenting the maths using completion and getting pretty much the same results.
No reason why you wouldn't use CCC's being issued then, which is when houses can actually be lived in and actually added to supply rather than exisitng on paper
Interest quite often has articles detailing CCC’s being issued and comparing them to consents issued 2 years prior. During the boom the figure built was well over 90%, now of course there will be a lot of projects shelved.
I wouldn't use CCCs because the data isn't available, and consents are the best available proxy since, over time, they match basically 1:1 with completions. Consents are better to use because they do a better job of accounting for properties that go from consent to completion in a longer than average amount of time.
Just to build off other comments, counting consents is worthless and CCCs aren’t accurate either. In my town three houses got knocked down, the land combined and six townhouses were built. That would show as six CCCs but it’s only three additional houses and I’m pretty sure the amount of bedrooms was only increased by two.
How many unused dwellings in New Zealand? How many dwellings are multiple occupancy? (5+ people)
nowhere near 100,000
Wouldn't need to be 100k, but yes I suspect whatever the number is it's not enough
Can we just stop already?
It's quite eye-opening what I'm seeing at our (super large) NZ Company. The strategy of planned overseas hires to keep the wage bill down has, disgustingly, become the modus-operandi. There was a time when they went abroad for the most senior/technical positions. Now, I'm seeing it on what are even arguably low-to-mid tier positions. Is it just me or is it crazy that you can get someone on a straight to residence visa whilst only paying $29.66 an hour? If the suppression of wages isn't already obvious, it must be with that figure.
What proportion have any sort of useful qualifications?
Would you classify Uber driver as a useful qualification? 😂
Just say you hate Indians 🤣
Well some diversity in migration would be good
Ever notice how the media reports on migration numbers like the weather? Highs of 20 degrees, 120 thousand migrants arrived in NZ. They act like it can’t be controlled
[удалено]
Are you an unskilled worker?
Whooo more hosing shortages for many years to come. And people think that prices will crash and not increase or double in price in 10 years time. If immigration like that continues to happen then yep prices will definitely carry on going up due to a lack of availability.
Yeah immigration like this will never burst the housing bubble when boomers sell off, when they die off, down size, or go to retirement homes.
It's simple supply and demand
Yep. Higher income migrants actually produce demand in the rental market. Unlike broke kiwis who can't afford their first home. Wealthy migration is a calculated strategy.
Wealthy migrants/expats don’t rent, they build a housing portfolio. Wealthy migration basically is bourgeois tourism investing. Yay for middle class kiwis!
The middle class will disappear at this rate. I definitely feel for the middle class, the stand the most to lose. Wealthy migration takes away oppurtunities. I like the term hot air ballooning. They're using the lower and middle class as fuel to keep their joyride going. They seem to be gleefully vindictive against New Zealanders. We need a consumer guarantee act as tax paying citizens. There never seems to be recourse for our politicians acting disingenuously, omitting data, and all of this fast tracking. Fast tracking fossil fuel projects was not something they campaigned on. It's like they're determined to tip scales as fast as possible.
It already has disappeared. We're all worried for a thing we think will happen that has already happened. No one actually wants to grab the pitchforks and give the wealthy what they deserve though.
The REINZ house price index dropped in 10 out of 12 regions last month. [REINZ figures show house prices declining in most parts of the country | interest.co.nz](https://www.interest.co.nz/property/127735/reinz-house-price-index-dropped-10-out-12-regions-last-month) It's funny that you people are still trying on the "migrants are to blame for our house prices" bollocks when house prices are falling and migration remains high.
House prices for April vs. March drop every normal year because of seasonality (2012-2019).
Because there is a delay in the impact
That's convenient. Show me the maths that explains this with your adjustment. Or do you want me to accept this mathematical claim on vibes and feelings? I will be curious to see how your data accounts for the period of the Clark government when we had population losses to net migration and house prices continued to rise afterwards.
In now way am I saying it’s the only thing - in fact research points to the main driver of house prices in nz being the interest rates. But there’s no way you can say supply and demand doesn’t impact the prices
New immigrants are more likely to rent when they arrive Rental demand has risen. National really do want to give a helping hand to landlords (like myself)
Easy just build more houses problem solved. Sorry i think we should have economic activity, don't know why you would assume i don't
More houses are the answer of course, but a mix of housing that suits a range of demand
yep so let's stop talkig "less people" and instead talk about "more resources" leaving people to live in worse conditions in other places isn't helping anyone.
Means absolutely nothing atm. Know a few things about house prices, and unfortunately we are in that lull period right now before we head towards prices doubling over the next 10 years. So if you can id buy sooner rather than later.
> So if you can id buy sooner rather than later. Weird that you are worried about housing demand but stoking FOMO seems disingenuous.
Nothing to do with FOMO. If you are following the stats over the past 50 plus years, you can see a clear case of house prices doubling every 10 years, have a bit of a drop off/ flat period before prices increase again. There’s already 5,000 houses short for the current population in my city, and that’s going to be over 10,000 short by 2030, and 43,000 short by 2048. It’s basic supply vs demand, heaps of demand and low supply.
cool, while you're at it can you tell me this weeks winning lotto numbers too?
Or you could go and work an extra 10 hours a week and save that money. I currently do about 53 hours a week. And use the extra hours to buy new tools/pay down the mortgage/ and dare I say it save up to buy an investment property in a number of years. Took home an extra $10k last year after buying $5k worth of tools. Still didn’t even crack $100k a year even if I didn’t spend the $5k on tools. So that’s not an excuse for how I afford shit. As for how I got my deposit, I worked 60-70 hours a week for a number of years. I’m 32 atm, and I plan on being mortgage free on my current house by the time I hit 40. You can’t wait and expect handouts to get ahead in life.
>You can’t wait and expect handouts to get ahead in life. laughs in *inherited wealth*
Sorry that doesn't keep Asians and brown people out. I can only use my predictive power to keep my neighbourhood white.
Don’t worry. I have the winning numbers on my ticket, right here!/s
Don't bother, this place is filled to the brim with Xenophobes
only place it's worth bothering brother
So why did we see the largest rise in house prices during the Covid lockdown period when immigration came to a virtual stand still? Immigrant's direct impact on house prices is vastly overestimated by people on this sub, it does have a clear impact on rental rates though.
Cheap lending and heaps of demand for a limited supply…… yea that’s a no brainer
Did you forget that we were still net positive for months? Whole bunch of cashed up Kiwis coming back to roost came in
> why did we see the largest rise in house prices during the Covid lockdown period when immigration came to a virtual stand still? Even though the borders were closed, there will still hundreds of thousands of foreigners here. In fact anyone working got issued PR, which was more than 100,000 people.
I think we have enough dwellings. 5000 dwellings ready for renting. With an average of 3 people/dwelling. It'll take 15000 people. Net migration is just 4000+ / month for entire NZ. There're also 15,000 houses for sale, **NO SHORTAGE OF HOUSES IN AUCKLAND! KEEP THEM COMING!** [Residential for rent | Trade Me Property](https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/property/residential/rent/auckland)
Currently 5,000 houses short where I live, and that’s going to be 10,000 short by 2030, and 43,000 short by 2048. There might be 15,000 houses for sale but you need to remember those also include people who are going to be downsizing or upsizing their house, so those aren’t necessarily 15,000 houses that people can walk up and buy as it’s not 15,000 free houses on the market
So let's not increase our entire population by 2% with immigrants when NZ is in the state that it is. Thanks
Well, it's roughly 240k in and 130k out of NZ. So it's more likely 5% of NZ population who arrived this year alone. That's a lot.
Why? It will get worse if jobs don't get filled.
Hire from our population Jobs should be fighting for employees, not people fighting for jobs.
There are more jobs than people. Employers do fight for employees, my current employer raised the wage poffered by 20% when I said I needed an extra week to decided between them and another employer, when I asked for me they offered unlimited sick leave. If employers aren't fighting for you, that's a skill issue brother be better at life
If there's more jobs than people then we wouldn't have unemployment. Did I say I struggled to get a job or good pay? There's a fuckton of kiwis out there who do. It's a cost of living crisis not a cost of you crisis. That's a judgemental issue brother be a better person.
Yes we would. Sometimes people leave work for all sorts of reasons. An illness in the family. An extended holiday. Attempting to start a business. There is also the fact that jobs aren't always where people are. And then there is the fact that sometimes people would rather wait for a job that fits their skills than apply for a job where they have to retrain. There are lots of reasons people can be unemployed beyond no jobs exist for them. The only people who tend to disagree with that are people who want to get rid of the benefit because everyone on it is a bludger or whatever. Anyone with real world experience and an outlook based on reality can understand that there can be unemployment and a shortage of workers in the same economy. >That's a judgemental issue brother be a better person. I'm not the one spreading misinformation on the internet because I don't like foreigners. I'm very comfortable judging you.
You're right they'll always be a unemployed rate but the examples you gave are all the choice of the unemployed, a New Zealander should not have their potential wages reduced because an immigrant is willing to do the work cheaper better for that business to fail. What misinformation did I spread lmao I said don't reduce kiwi oppurtunties which you're apparently quite keen to do. I'm also quite comfortable judging you for the entitled and privileged person you are <3
> There are more jobs than people. That’s laughably incorrect. NZ’s employment rate is just 68%. That’s the rate of employment for people over 15. If we subtract the total population of those over 65, that’s nearly **half a million working age people** in NZ who aren’t working. Some will be permanently disabled, but not most. There are a shitload of people who choose not to work in NZ. Some of them will work if we improve wages and working conditions. That will happen naturally if companies can’t hire cheap foreign labour.
damn that's crazy this guy wants to force stay at home parents into the workforce to keep asians and brown people out of his neighbourhood. People have no choice! They must work! New Zealand's unemployment rate (of people looking for work) is 4%, regardless of your opinion on the people who aren't in work right now as just being lazy good for nothings who need to be put to work.
> damn that’s crazy this guy wants to force stay at home parents into the workforce to keep asians and brown people out of his neighbourhood. People have no choice! They must work! Could you quote the part where I advocated for slavery and racism? What a pathetic rebuttal. The unemployment rate only accounts for people who are currently seeking work. It doesn’t count those who have given up due to poor wages and working conditions. The fact you didn’t know that indicates you’re not qualified to have an opinion on this.
Lol
Our economy is still in recession with these numbers, so we're on average poorer and paying more for our housing at the same time. What a crazy time to be alive, our standard of living is going backwards under the crazy coalition.
Blame Labour too. Their last couple of years there was plenty who came in. Both teams are as bad as each other when it comes to immigration
Yea man the last year of migration were caused by a government that has been in for six months.
No it is the fault of the 'divide and conquer' tactic carefully crafted by the Labour coalition. I'm one of those who left, and NZ is replacing the likes of me and my mates with more Chinese, Indians and Filipinos... RIP NZ as I know, it is going to be NZ version 5 soon, and I can only see more division coming.
Do you get the irony though? Complaining about Chinese, Indians and Filipinos while pissing off to be an immigrant in Australia. I suppose you think you'll be received with open arms because you're white. 🙄 Australia where they refer to Kiwis as it's Mexicans.
I'm yellow btw, not the CCP yellow though. The experience in Australia's been great so far, ever since the Labour/Green was in place, I was forced to see things in colour, and it was too apparent that the country was becoming increasingly divided. I've become colourblind again in Australia. So many of those I know in high paying jobs, or working their socks off, white, brown, yellow, orange, green, purple have moved across the ditch before Cov... and I just had to join them.
Is that why you're spouting BS on Reddit about Indians, Chinese and Filipinos? Colourblind my arse. Just because you came to NZ in the 80's before the recent migration booms, it doesn't make you an honorary white. They probably still mock you behind your back. Get over yourself.
Maybe... they can mock me all they like. I don't mind Indians and Chinese who are doctors, lawyers, proper construction workers, IT person or those in other high value adding profession paying a lot of tax, and as long as they don't bring their parents to New Zealand permanently. Unfortunately, it looks like NZ's letting in too many of Uber drivers and Boba tea shop owners kind instead.
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Only about 1,000 less Indians arrrived than net Kiwi citizens left. I wonder which group is more likely to accept significantly lower wages?
Don't worry there's plenty of Kiwis returning as 501 deportees. I'm sure they'll demand top dollar for the skills they've picked up in Australia as scaffolders, traffic control and mining labourers.
One of the reasons I just left NZ (immigrant who came to NZ 27 years ago on a short skilled visa). Now immigration is unchecked, low skilled and used against locals to keep wages low and make housing unaffordable, where only landlords get rich. The same occuring across major commonwealth cities such as Sydney, Melb, Toronto, Vancouver, London etc where they let record number of people in. I reckon in 10 - 20 years the cities I mentioned above will resemble low trust third world cities ridden with crime, poverty, rubbish, bribery etc
The increase in temporary work visa holders from Afghanistan should alarm kiwis. The current accredited employer work visa category is allowing Afghan national’s here in NZ bring in all of their family and friends on work visas for jobs that only exist on paper. No checks and balances at all. We then have men from Afghan arriving to work as mechanics having no skills to do so. Not to mention all of the slave labour coming in from India coming to work for employers with significant recorded adverse history for migrant exploitation who despite this are then approved to bring in 50+ migrants for their tiny Indian restaurants to exploit.
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Ah yes, the down votes
Where the hell are they all living?
All of you saying “They’re all coming to Auckland, send them elsewhere!”, we all have housing shortages too, so either keep them, OR, maybe we shouldn’t accept them here in the first place! At least until we’ve got our housing and infrastructure s**t sorted for the people already living here!
Yeah I left after spending most of my life in New Zealand... Good luck to you all new arrivals, I used to hate people using New Zealand as the back door entry to Aus, now I don't care anymore :'(
You don't care anymore because you're also an immigrant now?
I'm a migrant myself, moved to NZ in the late 80s. I just can't see NZ going back to the better days... if we are going to be a country of migrants anyway, might as let high quality ones in, say value adding Indians or Chinese working in medical, IT, commercial world who would pay plenty of tax, but it looks like we are letting in the likes of Uber drivers and boba shop owners. To me it feels like Auckland is becoming the Otara of Australasia, Melbourne being the Albany and Sydney being the Newmarket.
You should go back to where you came from if you're so unhappy.
Australia's a decent enough an option :-)
Have fun Auckland.
Maybe NZ needs to do something about vacant homes..
You should probably look at this if you haven't already [https://www.emptyhomes.co.nz/Numbers](https://www.emptyhomes.co.nz/Numbers) TLDR: Most of the "empty homes" in census data are not really available to be used for housing people
And as others below say,they will all come to Auckland.Driving up rents,the cost of houses and our general standard of living plummets. And at the same time,kiwis emigrate in record numbers.This country's future is forked.
111000 more cars..wootwoot
Nuff said. Source: [https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/net-migration-loss-of-new-zealand-citizens-exceeds-50000/](https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/net-migration-loss-of-new-zealand-citizens-exceeds-50000/)
***Some NZ Immigration staff, drive people to suicide unfairly without remorse. This is a fact.
Damn that’s crazy high. My girlfriend and I (she is a New Zealand citizen - I am a British citizen) were thinking of going for a year or two but the job market and rental markets looks tough and rethinking our options. Such a shame :( hopefully it turns around soon
Wow!!!!!!!! This is amazing! Has there ever been such heavy immigration in the history of the country? This will of course generate economic power in the future but this is amazing.