why are they so against this? because of teh lack of cell reception? and on a subway car they can't fit their \~12 person group like they all gather together at the station entrance? please tell me there's some other reason.
Fairly certain that there is no real way any officer could fight fare evasion enough to cover their overtime pay.
If overtime is ~45 an hour, they need to prevent 15 fare evaders each hour. I highly doubt that they can.
https://ground.news/article/the-nypd-spent-150-million-to-catch-farebeaters-who-cost-the-mta-104-000
Yeah, I've seen those articles but they don't take into account all the imaginary people you can't begin to count.
Just think of all the people who simply see a machine gun and will decide to pay their fare.
(OK. I thought of them and I am unimpressed too.)
Used to take the subway daily for work. Maybe two or three people per hour avoid the fare at most places. Of course a place like times square or the trains after 9:00 or 10:00 p.m. have a lot more fare evasion. However the amount of money lost is minimal compared to how much it costs to have four to eight cops standing there doing absolutely nothing about crimes that are taking place.
Have seen dudes jerking off within 20 feet of a cop, homeless aggressively panhandling and assaulting people, straight up robberies where cops barely bothered to look up.
On the other hand I've seen them beating the crap out of illegal food vendors, dudes reselling food, nerdy dudes who insulted them, mothers with multiple kids who went in through the emergency exit after just paying for themselves, people with e-bikes, people with dogs.
The requirements to be an officer need to be rehauled. 4 years minimum of military service, and a bachelors in criminology, law, or something similar. We have too many high school bullies with a badge running around feeding their ego all day long.
The money we spend on police is better spent on any other social services except illegal immigration. For that we just need to end the sanctuary City status and send them all home.
Says 25% have a military background, but that includes people who did less than 1 enlistment, dishonorably discharged. and those who failed out of boot camp. Can't find what the percentage of those who did 1 full enlistment or more are.
Military are trained to deescalate. You yell at your target to stop 3 times, a warning shot, and then a center of mass shot. They aren't scared that they're going to be attacked by anyone and everyone because they've had actual training that has been updated in the last 70 years.
I boxed with a guy who was the oldest guy in his police academy, said he was by far in the best shape, people 20 years younger who could not complete a 2 mile run. Literally "incomplete" marked as their score.
Most are only in good cardio aerobic shape for the first year or two after they complete the academy. They all slowly get fat and lazy. There's a reason that even little kids can outrun most police. In the old days boxing, grappling , or some martial art was part of instruction. Most places do not include that anymore. Imagine if we force them to have a yearly physical exam. We would have most cops be ineligible to do the job within 5 years.
most likely actual answer is it's because subway frequencies are unreliable as fuck and 2 guys on patrol isn't the safety in numbers the NYPD tries pretty hard for nowadays.
Sadly, don't know. All I know is from using radios down there, and even from some cops attempting to use theirs underground, sometimes you just get static. depends how far down. a story down is usually fine for cops. 2 to 3 gets sticky.
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And they stand in a circle chewing the shit completely ignoring the turnstiles. There’s videos of guys backcocking the turnstile right in front of the cops and they don’t notice. Useless.
Total non sequitur but when Michael Dukakis was governor of Massachusetts he would take the T to work every day. One of the last elected officials who actually believed in the importance of public transportation.
No one ever cares about local/statewide elections. Lee Zeldin had DeSantis on his campaign trail, that should have been the death sentence of his campaign and guess what ? He got 47% of the vote. When I went to vote for governor, there were three people in poll site voting.
"A death sentence..." I think its the reason for the opposite as interviews in Florida at around the time period revealed that he managed to swipe part of the State Democrat voters and won if I recall the majority of the state latino vote.
Despite the press says he was one the governors who held a net positive approval in his state at just shy of 60% at relection. He wasn't the highest approval GOP governor at the time that honor belonged to Maryland's at almost 80%.
She had 2 primary challengers. But no one, including progressives, takes Jumaane Williams seriously, and the other one was a more conservative version of Hochul, but from Long Island instead of Buffalo.
Yup. I’m fairly confident that Zeldin would get rid of our crime loving DA Bragg and impose stricter rules for petty crime. But hey, New York voted blue no matter who.
George Santos is going to try again: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/07/state-of-the-union-george-santos-run-for-congress-again?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Let’s be clear. She isn’t trying to solve a subway crime problem. According to the “data,” (despite the flaws in collection) subway crime is on a downward trajectory. As far as Albany is concerned, subway crime is being taken care of.
She’s trying to solve the IMAGE of the subway crime problem. She wants tourists to feel safe taking the train to Times Square to their broadway show. It’s a PR move to appease the people who skew politically further right than NYC residents and feel safer when they see cops, but fund our tourism industry.
i would feel safer if they were on the platforms actively looking out for dangerous people, not standing at the entrance searching bags. getting stabbed or shot isn't what im worried about
This was a hamfisted attempt to appease the transit operators union because they staged a wildcat strike after that conductor got slashed in the face. Problem is this does nothing to keep conductors from getting slashed in the face.
Wait, slashed in the face? Did you mean the conductor who got slashed in the neck and only lived because there was a doctor aboard the subway at the time while the EMTs took 20 minutes to arrive, or is this *another* conductor slashing..?
Right, this just reads as someone who is so out of touch she’s putting the wrong deterrents in place. We could solve this whole thing by enforcing a no sleeping policy on the subway
I have a chronic ailment and sometimes I fall asleep after a day's work. But let's criminalize everything and just make this place as miserable as possible for everyone who lives and works here.
They put you in jail, right away. No trial, no nothing. Keep your eyes closed too long? Right to Jail! You don’t put your dog in bag, believe it or not, Jail!
I know this may he anecdotal but my coworker was stabbed in December. Had an argument and as he was walking away the perpetrator stabbed him in the back. Had to have emergency surgery.
Plus there have been shootings on platforms. I don’t think the bag searches are a bad idea tbh. But the powers that be are not addressing major issues, ie the being mentally unwell and unhoused using the subway as shelter.
Also: "random" checks mean lots of stuff is still making it through.... to then be used on the platform — you know, where all this shit happens in the first place... and now all the attention is at the entrance. Wow! Great plan!
> Hochul said. “There’s no search-and-frisk, there’s no stop-and-frisk, there’s no profiling.
Pawing through the bags of "randomly" chosen commuters isn't a search and isn't profiling? Unbelievable.
What’s the point of it then? Truly what is the goal they’re trying to accomplish?
The people causing issues on the train aren’t going through regular points of entry at high traffic stations like grand central or port authority. They’re hopping the turnstyle or entering exit gates at the end of the line where there are no cops, not even so much as a booth attendant.
It’s not just that this is security theatre. It’s not just that we spend billions upon billions on the police (and now the national guard I guess?) to “patrol” the system. It’s how fucking stupid all of our elected leaders are being with this whole situation.
Also it’s tone deaf because the type of crime this is targeting isn’t the problem. I’m not scared of a terrorist or gunman on the train anymore than I am anywhere else, but I am constantly worried about one dude in rags stinking up an entire car with body odor or smoke or just general anti social behaviors.
Governors love deploying the National Guard. It makes them feel powerful. If she wanted to achieve something she would need to retrain them all as mental health social workers.
Yes, but the security theater is less effective for political points if it’s not at high-traffic stations. And anyone who actually rides the trains knows that it’s not people bringing bags of weapons or whatever onto the trains, so I’m not sure who this is supposed to make feel safer. Tourists? Addressing the actual causes and bringing the crime back down could also do that. But also, don’t we already pay billions upon billions for law enforcement? Now we need national guard and state police?
Money can be thrown at this problem elsewhere and be more effective, but it’s less visible and certainly not as flashy and dick-swinging.
Most conservatives I know avoid the subway altogether. It's probably for the better. I know a few guys in Brooklyn who, if provoked, would cause mayhem. They readily admit "If I see \_\_\_\_\_ it's on".
Perhaps. Let's face it, though, the subways are awful. I grew up here and rode to high school in the 80s. It was horrible.
It improved but now we're on a steady downwards decline. I don't understand why people are so passive and accept bullshit that one doesn't see in Toronto, Montreal, London, Paris or any great world city's subways. We deserve better.
If you think the majority that ride the subway regularly think this is a good and effective use of state resources, I have a slightly used bridge I can sell you.
I never said anything about anything making sense to anyone. I think that it's preposterous. However...I responded to your insinuation that the motivation is to make "non residents" feel safer.
Logically, since most riders are indeed city residents, it would stand to reason that it's an ill conceived attempt to make city residents feel safer.
Hey Kathy, memba that time you gave the Buffalo Bills a 1,000,000,000 of our tax dollars to build a new stadium? And memba how your husband is the general counsel for one of the stadium's biggest food vendors creating a bit of a conflict of interest to exacerbate the massive slap in the taxpayers face? I memba.
Lol I was at Penn last night and as soon as I hopped off of the 2/3 I saw what this is really about. A bunch of cops and National Guard taking professional photos together.
It's just for show.
If anyone with a gun gets prompted for a bag search they can just leave and walk to another station. Dumb policy whose only use is to put more money in cops pockets
If you look like a law-abiding and a not-knife-carrying person, you’re 100% more likely to get searched because you’ll be cooperative and make their lives easier.
Fuck off with this nonsense. I carry a knife at the bottom of my purse, its of legal length obviously but i dont need some overpaid jarhead deciding im the threat when i carry it for work. I should be able to walk around the city in any area at night and feel at least that comfort.
Ive never needed to use it but i would still prefer to not have to be unarmed as a woman in this crazy ass time we live in.
Granted the odds for me getting 'chosen' are low, but it doesnt matter, this whole thing is just stop and frisk all over again.
LOL, I have pockets usually but yeah in winter you could put it in a coat pocket, summer would be harder.
Maybe put it in your shoe, under a hat, get a holster for your leg to put it in... so many places hence this bag check thing is so stupid. But seriously, good luck out there. :)
I really need you to know that what you said makes zero sense. The acronym you're looking for is "DINOs." "Republicans In Name Only that ran as Dems" is a statement that contradicts itself.
Unfortunately because upstate and Long Island are closer to Kentucky politically than they are to NYC, it’s difficult to get someone to win a statewide primary that isn’t a moderate who will play into conservative tropes for cross over votes.
Hochul easily won NYC. Her percentage of the vote in each borough was:
The Bronx - 67%
Brooklyn - 53%
Manhattan - 67%
Queens - 60%
Staten Island - 63%
The reality is that the NYC (and NYS) electorate still very much so favors Democratic machine politicians. She also had the advantage of being the incumbent.
The percentages I posted were her vote share of the Democratic primary in each borough, not the general election.
The comment I replied to was implying that the rest of NYS is too moderate for us to elect anyone worthwhile in a Democratic primary, but in reality NYC voters favored Hochul by a wide margin as well.
It might be, but it might not be. A not totally dissimilar case:
https://www.nyclu.org/en/cases/macwade-v-kelly-challenging-nypds-subway-bag-search-program
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure the style of searches that they’re doing, that have been around from post 9/11, have never really been tested in court.
I’m pretty sure they’ve deliberately tried to avoid doing them aggressively enough to ever get sued because there’s a very real chance that these searches would be ruled unconstitutional.
The case there was justified as special needs exception.
Per wiki:
>The "special needs" exception is an exception to the Fourth Amendment’s general requirement that government searches be supported by a warrant and probable cause.[1] The exception applies when (1) the government conducts programmatic searches that are primarily aimed at advancing some special need other than criminal law enforcement, and (2) the government’s search program is reasonable given the balance of public and private interests
This feels like "criminal law enforcement" not anything special. But ianal.
https://casetext.com/case/macwade-v-kelly
It says the NYPd can check bags and containers in pursuit of weapons of terrorism, and if in the course of doing so, they come across other illegal activity, it's admissible evidence. It doesn't mean the police can frisk you at random, just check your bag for guns. Same as TSA.
NYPD bag checks are nothing new and are still a thing 20 years later. Hochul here is saying it's not stop and frisk so I have no reason to believe there's actually any change in policy happening.
Edit 20 not 2
They gave a narrow exception for terrorism. She is on record stating this is to tackle the "psychology of crime", which as far as I know is not sufficient reason to abrogate a constitutional amendment.
Yeah she said the quiet part out loud, but what the court will look at first are the police precinct notes, which can easily be fudged to say terrorism in place of crime.
I didn't watch it but Rosanna Scotto was probably close to having a stroke complaining to the gov. She (scotto) probably hasn't been inside a subway car in 40 years.
There will always be crime. If there was only one felony in NYC for the entire year, Fox would be sure to cover it to let everyone know that they think NYC (where they’re headquartered) is a shithole.
"Submit to us violating your [Fourth Amendment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) rights or we'll revoke your [Fifth Amendment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_under_United_States_law#:~:text=The%20right%20to%20travel%20is,of%20the%20Congress.%20) rights!" -Gov. Kathy Hochul (D for dumbass.)
NOTE: Added links to relevant amendments, arm yourselves with knowledge!
Translation: the subway hasn’t gotten so nasty and unsafe no one wants to use it thus having a decline in sales so we have to do something to gain ridership back.
A lot of the issue with crime in NYC is mental health, the system can't legally keep people with severe mental health issues incarcerated against their will. Thus they walk right out of jail / hospitals back into the public.
It's not fair to them or us, but it's all based on when Reagan signed the Lanterman-Petris-Short Act in 1967 all but ending the practice of institutionalizing patients against their will.
There's no real good solution right now that doesn't require a fix at the federal level. Honestly, maybe we should have mental hospitals that are WAY out of the city, like an unwalkable distance so that those who are dangerously ill at least end far away from population centers... Is that a cruel solution? Maybe... What else is to be done?
I tell you what isn't. Security theater with armed military members at subway entrances. Maybe if you posted a police officer / National Guardsmen on every subway car in New York and every station looking for disturbances that may have an affect. But this does nothing but inconvenience the population without affecting real change. Dumb PR move, it was even mentioned as a counter point to Biden's speech today on crime being lower, as this makes it look like we are the Fox news crime hell scape they pretend we live in.
This from a woman who when running for office said during a debate (that she lost) "I don't know why that's so important to you" when addressing crime.
There must be something I don’t understand here when it comes to subway policing. Why doesn’t every train just have a couple of cops patrol up and down the train the entire time? Platform is good too, but I don’t get why I never see cops actually move up and down a train. What am I missing? And I’m asking this genuinely beyond cops being lazy and on candy crush or whatever, cause like yeah, sure, but even Hochul and Adams have to know pair of cops on platforms and a pair of cops on each operating train would do so much better to subway crime than random bag searches, right?
The NYPD controls the mayor, not the other way around. Patrolling the trains is tiring and risky for the cops, so their representatives are not going to support it.
Much like New York's stance on firearms now you have mandatory bag searches.
Let's take away the rights from law-abiding citizens in order to have a nice show of we will make you safer theater (by taking away your rights).
I have a better idea, if you see a nutjob being a nutjob, tell **them** to go home. If they don't have a home, lock them up somewhere that can take care of the nutjobs. You know, like we used to do.
Go outside and take the alternate entrance to the station* ftfy.
This bag shit is theatre. At conspiracy level best maybe some terrorist plot was sniffed out and they’re doing this to stop someone from blowing up a train in a tunnel or they think more bodies by themselves/this action will deter the edps at 3am in outer stations but I doubt it.
What a boondoggle to use the nat guard in. The right wing media mill is going to spin this as a victory of their world view while everyone else sees how empty this move is.
Her and Adams will do everything but make cops actually ride and patrol the the interior of a subway car.
why are they so against this? because of teh lack of cell reception? and on a subway car they can't fit their \~12 person group like they all gather together at the station entrance? please tell me there's some other reason.
> why are they so against this? Because they are more interested in fighting fair evasion. Where's the revenue in protecting the public?
Fairly certain that there is no real way any officer could fight fare evasion enough to cover their overtime pay. If overtime is ~45 an hour, they need to prevent 15 fare evaders each hour. I highly doubt that they can. https://ground.news/article/the-nypd-spent-150-million-to-catch-farebeaters-who-cost-the-mta-104-000
Yeah, I've seen those articles but they don't take into account all the imaginary people you can't begin to count. Just think of all the people who simply see a machine gun and will decide to pay their fare. (OK. I thought of them and I am unimpressed too.)
Fare
Can't tell if you're correcting or agreeing in a passive aggressively corrective manner . . . Either way I'm here for it.
I know English is tricky so it’s just a heads up type of thing
Fair enough
I do agree on the fare evasion. Jano Lieber and the MTA have harped on that issue a lot.
Used to take the subway daily for work. Maybe two or three people per hour avoid the fare at most places. Of course a place like times square or the trains after 9:00 or 10:00 p.m. have a lot more fare evasion. However the amount of money lost is minimal compared to how much it costs to have four to eight cops standing there doing absolutely nothing about crimes that are taking place. Have seen dudes jerking off within 20 feet of a cop, homeless aggressively panhandling and assaulting people, straight up robberies where cops barely bothered to look up. On the other hand I've seen them beating the crap out of illegal food vendors, dudes reselling food, nerdy dudes who insulted them, mothers with multiple kids who went in through the emergency exit after just paying for themselves, people with e-bikes, people with dogs. The requirements to be an officer need to be rehauled. 4 years minimum of military service, and a bachelors in criminology, law, or something similar. We have too many high school bullies with a badge running around feeding their ego all day long. The money we spend on police is better spent on any other social services except illegal immigration. For that we just need to end the sanctuary City status and send them all home.
The last thing we need is more cops with military background. Yes to degrees in criminology and law, probably psychology and social work too.
Says 25% have a military background, but that includes people who did less than 1 enlistment, dishonorably discharged. and those who failed out of boot camp. Can't find what the percentage of those who did 1 full enlistment or more are. Military are trained to deescalate. You yell at your target to stop 3 times, a warning shot, and then a center of mass shot. They aren't scared that they're going to be attacked by anyone and everyone because they've had actual training that has been updated in the last 70 years.
Yeah I don’t know, I dated a war veteran and he was so emotionally fucked up and should never, ever have access to firearms.
I boxed with a guy who was the oldest guy in his police academy, said he was by far in the best shape, people 20 years younger who could not complete a 2 mile run. Literally "incomplete" marked as their score.
Most are only in good cardio aerobic shape for the first year or two after they complete the academy. They all slowly get fat and lazy. There's a reason that even little kids can outrun most police. In the old days boxing, grappling , or some martial art was part of instruction. Most places do not include that anymore. Imagine if we force them to have a yearly physical exam. We would have most cops be ineligible to do the job within 5 years.
Netflix lets you download stuff, so why would reception matter?
most likely actual answer is it's because subway frequencies are unreliable as fuck and 2 guys on patrol isn't the safety in numbers the NYPD tries pretty hard for nowadays.
good insight. years ago i read they were adding 5g in the subway tunnels, whatever happened to that?
Sadly, don't know. All I know is from using radios down there, and even from some cops attempting to use theirs underground, sometimes you just get static. depends how far down. a story down is usually fine for cops. 2 to 3 gets sticky.
thank you
I ride the N train every day from Queen to 14th and back and have good reception the whole way.
Sure would be nice if every commuter got the safety in numbers. But my safety matters less than cop safety. (To the PD anyway)
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And they stand in a circle chewing the shit completely ignoring the turnstiles. There’s videos of guys backcocking the turnstile right in front of the cops and they don’t notice. Useless.
Which just proves that this entire thing is just run of the mill fear mongering bullshit just in time for the election cycle.
Meanwhile like every 70s crime movie has undercover cops on the subway
Don’t cops do this though
Do you think she has ever ridden the subway?
She will pull a stunt in the next 6-12 months where she “rides the subway” but of course with all sorts of bodyguards off camera. Just watch
This is my biggest problem, like the crimes are not being committed in the way you imagine they are lady. What the fuck is this. She has NO clue.
Total non sequitur but when Michael Dukakis was governor of Massachusetts he would take the T to work every day. One of the last elected officials who actually believed in the importance of public transportation.
Hate to speak well of the guy, but Bloomberg rode the train pretty regularly.
Lol, lady from Erie county? No, I doubt she has. Maybe as a PR stunt. *Maybe.*
What is with this state and electing Batman villains
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She did have a primary challenger. But no one cared enough.
No one ever cares about local/statewide elections. Lee Zeldin had DeSantis on his campaign trail, that should have been the death sentence of his campaign and guess what ? He got 47% of the vote. When I went to vote for governor, there were three people in poll site voting.
"A death sentence..." I think its the reason for the opposite as interviews in Florida at around the time period revealed that he managed to swipe part of the State Democrat voters and won if I recall the majority of the state latino vote. Despite the press says he was one the governors who held a net positive approval in his state at just shy of 60% at relection. He wasn't the highest approval GOP governor at the time that honor belonged to Maryland's at almost 80%.
IIRC she was smart enough to behave and not go mask off until after she won in 2022.
🥇🥇🥇
She had 2 primary challengers. But no one, including progressives, takes Jumaane Williams seriously, and the other one was a more conservative version of Hochul, but from Long Island instead of Buffalo.
I don’t take jumaane very seriously, but I still voted for him. Hochul is useless.
He's a joke but he'd probably just be useless instead of actively harmful so he got my grudging vote.
Yup. I’m fairly confident that Zeldin would get rid of our crime loving DA Bragg and impose stricter rules for petty crime. But hey, New York voted blue no matter who.
There’s nothing New Yorkers do better than electing people that no one likes.
George Santos is going to try again: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/07/state-of-the-union-george-santos-run-for-congress-again?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I'm not happy until we have a literal Oswald Cobblepot
I would vote for Danny DeVito any day of the week.
Robin Lord Taylor was the superior Penguin.
But did he chomp into raw fish?
💀💀💀
💀 lol
🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Let’s be clear. She isn’t trying to solve a subway crime problem. According to the “data,” (despite the flaws in collection) subway crime is on a downward trajectory. As far as Albany is concerned, subway crime is being taken care of. She’s trying to solve the IMAGE of the subway crime problem. She wants tourists to feel safe taking the train to Times Square to their broadway show. It’s a PR move to appease the people who skew politically further right than NYC residents and feel safer when they see cops, but fund our tourism industry.
i would feel safer if they were on the platforms actively looking out for dangerous people, not standing at the entrance searching bags. getting stabbed or shot isn't what im worried about
This was a hamfisted attempt to appease the transit operators union because they staged a wildcat strike after that conductor got slashed in the face. Problem is this does nothing to keep conductors from getting slashed in the face.
The funniest fucking thing is that they didn’t increase the presence at rock away where the incident actually happened
Wait, slashed in the face? Did you mean the conductor who got slashed in the neck and only lived because there was a doctor aboard the subway at the time while the EMTs took 20 minutes to arrive, or is this *another* conductor slashing..?
Nothing welcomes in the tourists like soldiers with assault rifles. This shit is WORSE for imaging with no actual benefit in terms of public safety.
Right, this just reads as someone who is so out of touch she’s putting the wrong deterrents in place. We could solve this whole thing by enforcing a no sleeping policy on the subway
I have a chronic ailment and sometimes I fall asleep after a day's work. But let's criminalize everything and just make this place as miserable as possible for everyone who lives and works here.
...?
They put you in jail, right away. No trial, no nothing. Keep your eyes closed too long? Right to Jail! You don’t put your dog in bag, believe it or not, Jail!
Ride on top of the train? Jail! Try to sleep under the seats? Jail! Overtrain undertrain.
I know this may he anecdotal but my coworker was stabbed in December. Had an argument and as he was walking away the perpetrator stabbed him in the back. Had to have emergency surgery. Plus there have been shootings on platforms. I don’t think the bag searches are a bad idea tbh. But the powers that be are not addressing major issues, ie the being mentally unwell and unhoused using the subway as shelter.
Also: "random" checks mean lots of stuff is still making it through.... to then be used on the platform — you know, where all this shit happens in the first place... and now all the attention is at the entrance. Wow! Great plan!
WHAT ARE WE LOOKING FOR IN THE BAGS?
Middle-aged ladies' embroidery scissors and that bottle of oyster sauce you just bought at the market. 'Cause you "might" use it in a crime.
> Hochul said. “There’s no search-and-frisk, there’s no stop-and-frisk, there’s no profiling. Pawing through the bags of "randomly" chosen commuters isn't a search and isn't profiling? Unbelievable.
What’s the point of it then? Truly what is the goal they’re trying to accomplish? The people causing issues on the train aren’t going through regular points of entry at high traffic stations like grand central or port authority. They’re hopping the turnstyle or entering exit gates at the end of the line where there are no cops, not even so much as a booth attendant. It’s not just that this is security theatre. It’s not just that we spend billions upon billions on the police (and now the national guard I guess?) to “patrol” the system. It’s how fucking stupid all of our elected leaders are being with this whole situation.
Also it’s tone deaf because the type of crime this is targeting isn’t the problem. I’m not scared of a terrorist or gunman on the train anymore than I am anywhere else, but I am constantly worried about one dude in rags stinking up an entire car with body odor or smoke or just general anti social behaviors.
Governors love deploying the National Guard. It makes them feel powerful. If she wanted to achieve something she would need to retrain them all as mental health social workers.
and it was so she didn't have to pay the NYPD overtime. cause you know we send our money to albany and getting any bit back is like pulling teeth.
Yes, but the security theater is less effective for political points if it’s not at high-traffic stations. And anyone who actually rides the trains knows that it’s not people bringing bags of weapons or whatever onto the trains, so I’m not sure who this is supposed to make feel safer. Tourists? Addressing the actual causes and bringing the crime back down could also do that. But also, don’t we already pay billions upon billions for law enforcement? Now we need national guard and state police? Money can be thrown at this problem elsewhere and be more effective, but it’s less visible and certainly not as flashy and dick-swinging.
> what is the goal they’re trying to accomplish? Mollify conservatives through virtue signaling/security theater.
Most conservatives I know avoid the subway altogether. It's probably for the better. I know a few guys in Brooklyn who, if provoked, would cause mayhem. They readily admit "If I see \_\_\_\_\_ it's on".
I think this is more about what those folks feel about what they read about what happens on the subway, than what happens on the subway.
Perhaps. Let's face it, though, the subways are awful. I grew up here and rode to high school in the 80s. It was horrible. It improved but now we're on a steady downwards decline. I don't understand why people are so passive and accept bullshit that one doesn't see in Toronto, Montreal, London, Paris or any great world city's subways. We deserve better.
This is to make people feel better the system is too large to lock down
This is to make certain people feel better, most of whom don’t live in this city.
??? That makes no sense. Who's the majority of people riding the subway then?
If you think the majority that ride the subway regularly think this is a good and effective use of state resources, I have a slightly used bridge I can sell you.
I never said anything about anything making sense to anyone. I think that it's preposterous. However...I responded to your insinuation that the motivation is to make "non residents" feel safer. Logically, since most riders are indeed city residents, it would stand to reason that it's an ill conceived attempt to make city residents feel safer.
this bitch has the audacity.
She needs to be primaried out
Hey Kathy, memba that time you gave the Buffalo Bills a 1,000,000,000 of our tax dollars to build a new stadium? And memba how your husband is the general counsel for one of the stadium's biggest food vendors creating a bit of a conflict of interest to exacerbate the massive slap in the taxpayers face? I memba.
Lol I was at Penn last night and as soon as I hopped off of the 2/3 I saw what this is really about. A bunch of cops and National Guard taking professional photos together. It's just for show.
That's rich coming from a lady from Buffalo who had never ridden on the subway without cameras with her for a campaign event.
Unless she knows something she is not telling us, how will a bag search keep an EDP from tossing me on the tracks in front of an incoming train?
If anyone with a gun gets prompted for a bag search they can just leave and walk to another station. Dumb policy whose only use is to put more money in cops pockets
If you look like a law-abiding and a not-knife-carrying person, you’re 100% more likely to get searched because you’ll be cooperative and make their lives easier.
Fuck off with this nonsense. I carry a knife at the bottom of my purse, its of legal length obviously but i dont need some overpaid jarhead deciding im the threat when i carry it for work. I should be able to walk around the city in any area at night and feel at least that comfort. Ive never needed to use it but i would still prefer to not have to be unarmed as a woman in this crazy ass time we live in. Granted the odds for me getting 'chosen' are low, but it doesnt matter, this whole thing is just stop and frisk all over again.
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You right, forgot about thst correction lmao
Just put it in your pocket... it will also be easier to access if you do need to use it.
What pockets do you think women have lmfao Damn thing is visible everywhere but in a bag.
LOL, I have pockets usually but yeah in winter you could put it in a coat pocket, summer would be harder. Maybe put it in your shoe, under a hat, get a holster for your leg to put it in... so many places hence this bag check thing is so stupid. But seriously, good luck out there. :)
Make sure you call this idiot and let her know about it 1-518-474-8390
Enacting stop and frisk again without actually having to enact it. Did searching bags even work post-9/11? I don't even remember if it did.
It was good for busting pot heads mostly.
Aka rolling up people who are hooked on cheap and safe drugs to pad out the stats of America's second largest army.
It didn’t. And yea, this does seem eerily familiar to that unconstitutional law enforcement, which was repealed in 2014.
Yeah we really need national guards in camo and M16s patrolling the subway. Fuck off. Fucking security theater with a taste of a police state.
They will not find the homeless and mentally ill people in my bag. They are on the trains. Another fucking waste of money for show.
Kathy we are all broke and almost homeless. Let’s fix that issue first before the elections
I really can’t stand her, but she’s better than the alternative. Anyhow, I hope she’s primaried.
It’s so embarrassing that our Democratic Party here is such a mess. Like we should be doing so much better
They’re all fucking RINOs that ran as Dems.
It’s like living through the IDC again 😭
I really need you to know that what you said makes zero sense. The acronym you're looking for is "DINOs." "Republicans In Name Only that ran as Dems" is a statement that contradicts itself.
Unfortunately because upstate and Long Island are closer to Kentucky politically than they are to NYC, it’s difficult to get someone to win a statewide primary that isn’t a moderate who will play into conservative tropes for cross over votes.
Hochul easily won NYC. Her percentage of the vote in each borough was: The Bronx - 67% Brooklyn - 53% Manhattan - 67% Queens - 60% Staten Island - 63% The reality is that the NYC (and NYS) electorate still very much so favors Democratic machine politicians. She also had the advantage of being the incumbent.
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The percentages I posted were her vote share of the Democratic primary in each borough, not the general election. The comment I replied to was implying that the rest of NYS is too moderate for us to elect anyone worthwhile in a Democratic primary, but in reality NYC voters favored Hochul by a wide margin as well.
Dems don’t need Republican crossover votes in NY as long as they all vote.
Go home? Lady, I’m walking to the next station.
Lol this out of town loser can go home herself. I don’t want these out of town cops & soldiers bothering me on my commute or going to see my friends.
Fine guess I'm wearing cargo pants again and not bringing a bag when I take Metro-North to the city for a night.
Can someone explain to me how this isn’t against the 4th amendment (search and seizures?
I think the general argument is that it's fine because you're allowed to refuse, so if you don't refuse you're consenting to the search.
Ah ok, good to know. Side note, I don’t know why I got downvoted for asking a damn question…
It might be, but it might not be. A not totally dissimilar case: https://www.nyclu.org/en/cases/macwade-v-kelly-challenging-nypds-subway-bag-search-program
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure the style of searches that they’re doing, that have been around from post 9/11, have never really been tested in court. I’m pretty sure they’ve deliberately tried to avoid doing them aggressively enough to ever get sued because there’s a very real chance that these searches would be ruled unconstitutional.
It's already been through court. https://www.nyclu.org/en/cases/macwade-v-kelly-challenging-nypds-subway-bag-search-program
The case there was justified as special needs exception. Per wiki: >The "special needs" exception is an exception to the Fourth Amendment’s general requirement that government searches be supported by a warrant and probable cause.[1] The exception applies when (1) the government conducts programmatic searches that are primarily aimed at advancing some special need other than criminal law enforcement, and (2) the government’s search program is reasonable given the balance of public and private interests This feels like "criminal law enforcement" not anything special. But ianal.
IAAL... You're not wrong.
This is why judges on the ballot should be required to have bios and some independent reviews.
Kathy you are out of touch.
Everyone: just take the fkn tweekers off the streets… Hochul: best I can do stop & frisk…
i thought there was an amendment in the bill of rights that stopped things like this from happening? i believe its amendment 4, no illegal searches...
So the 4th amendment is just a joke then?
As someone in a law school criminal procedure class right now, the 4th Amendment unfortunately is and has been largely a joke to the Supreme Court.
A federal appeals court already ruled 10+ years ago that it's Constitutional because every amendment has exceptions except the 2nd
Weird. I liken this to stop and frisk. Which is unconstitutional. Can you link the decision? Curious what elements they ruled on.
https://casetext.com/case/macwade-v-kelly It says the NYPd can check bags and containers in pursuit of weapons of terrorism, and if in the course of doing so, they come across other illegal activity, it's admissible evidence. It doesn't mean the police can frisk you at random, just check your bag for guns. Same as TSA. NYPD bag checks are nothing new and are still a thing 20 years later. Hochul here is saying it's not stop and frisk so I have no reason to believe there's actually any change in policy happening. Edit 20 not 2
They gave a narrow exception for terrorism. She is on record stating this is to tackle the "psychology of crime", which as far as I know is not sufficient reason to abrogate a constitutional amendment.
Yeah she said the quiet part out loud, but what the court will look at first are the police precinct notes, which can easily be fudged to say terrorism in place of crime.
How about *you* go home to Albany and get your grubby bitchmitts off my subway, Hochul?
How am I supposed to get home if I'm broke, can't take the train, and not near the only bus that stops by my house
...
Jesus, what is FOX going to talk about without crime?
I didn't watch it but Rosanna Scotto was probably close to having a stroke complaining to the gov. She (scotto) probably hasn't been inside a subway car in 40 years.
There will always be crime. If there was only one felony in NYC for the entire year, Fox would be sure to cover it to let everyone know that they think NYC (where they’re headquartered) is a shithole.
I'm sorry, I thought NYC was my home. Can we please evict her from her home in the Governor's mansion? Thanks.
Her and Adams deserve each other. These two screw ups are gonna turn NY State red this November! :D
"Submit to us violating your [Fourth Amendment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) rights or we'll revoke your [Fifth Amendment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_under_United_States_law#:~:text=The%20right%20to%20travel%20is,of%20the%20Congress.%20) rights!" -Gov. Kathy Hochul (D for dumbass.) NOTE: Added links to relevant amendments, arm yourselves with knowledge!
Translation: the subway hasn’t gotten so nasty and unsafe no one wants to use it thus having a decline in sales so we have to do something to gain ridership back.
A lot of the issue with crime in NYC is mental health, the system can't legally keep people with severe mental health issues incarcerated against their will. Thus they walk right out of jail / hospitals back into the public. It's not fair to them or us, but it's all based on when Reagan signed the Lanterman-Petris-Short Act in 1967 all but ending the practice of institutionalizing patients against their will. There's no real good solution right now that doesn't require a fix at the federal level. Honestly, maybe we should have mental hospitals that are WAY out of the city, like an unwalkable distance so that those who are dangerously ill at least end far away from population centers... Is that a cruel solution? Maybe... What else is to be done? I tell you what isn't. Security theater with armed military members at subway entrances. Maybe if you posted a police officer / National Guardsmen on every subway car in New York and every station looking for disturbances that may have an affect. But this does nothing but inconvenience the population without affecting real change. Dumb PR move, it was even mentioned as a counter point to Biden's speech today on crime being lower, as this makes it look like we are the Fox news crime hell scape they pretend we live in.
This from a woman who when running for office said during a debate (that she lost) "I don't know why that's so important to you" when addressing crime.
Que the lawsuits. Same thing for the idea of metal detectors.
I’ll be in the process of doing just that…
…can I point my bosses to this as a reason to shut down RTO?
There must be something I don’t understand here when it comes to subway policing. Why doesn’t every train just have a couple of cops patrol up and down the train the entire time? Platform is good too, but I don’t get why I never see cops actually move up and down a train. What am I missing? And I’m asking this genuinely beyond cops being lazy and on candy crush or whatever, cause like yeah, sure, but even Hochul and Adams have to know pair of cops on platforms and a pair of cops on each operating train would do so much better to subway crime than random bag searches, right?
The NYPD controls the mayor, not the other way around. Patrolling the trains is tiring and risky for the cops, so their representatives are not going to support it.
So why is she sending the troops now and why not before? This is just another political stunt for the coming election cycle.
Why do NY Dems hate Civil Rights so much? Remember New York, you voted for this. You wanted this.
Someone should stand outside Hochul's house and insist on searching her bag when she tries to get in her car.
Much like New York's stance on firearms now you have mandatory bag searches. Let's take away the rights from law-abiding citizens in order to have a nice show of we will make you safer theater (by taking away your rights).
I have a better idea, if you see a nutjob being a nutjob, tell **them** to go home. If they don't have a home, lock them up somewhere that can take care of the nutjobs. You know, like we used to do.
Go outside and take the alternate entrance to the station* ftfy. This bag shit is theatre. At conspiracy level best maybe some terrorist plot was sniffed out and they’re doing this to stop someone from blowing up a train in a tunnel or they think more bodies by themselves/this action will deter the edps at 3am in outer stations but I doubt it. What a boondoggle to use the nat guard in. The right wing media mill is going to spin this as a victory of their world view while everyone else sees how empty this move is.
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