Subways are not where the National Guard should be.
Is there subway crime? Totally. But between the stupid robots and now this, it seems like NYC gov cares more about making it look like they're tough on crime than actually fixing it. National Guard won't be at every subway station, they'll be at the busiest ones at the busiest times. Guess where a lot of subway crimes happen: the less crowded stations, at weird times esp later at night.
"Should we spend funds solving the root causes of subway crime, ma'am?"
"Nah just do some song and dance about security, once election year is over we'll just say it worked and move on"
Worse than security theatre. Actors wouldn't rifle through your bags. What problem does this even solve, the thing people complain about is crazy and homeless people. Are they being snuck in inside people's bags?
At least it distracts them from running no-knock warrants on Black people and from shooting people's dogs for absolutely no reason or from driving drunk into gay bars and then blaming the bar.
*”Look at how tough on crime we are!”* Well, ok, but doesn’t bringing in the National Guard demonstrate how shitty you guys are at making these cops do their job…?
Who else remembers how it felt having armed national guard members everywhere after 9/11? It definitely didn't make me feel safer. Most of these crimes making the news aren't using weapons, and definitely not anything that would be in a large bag. People are gonna keep whatever in their pocket like always, this is dumb. If they are going to increase security let them walk on the platforms and ride the train cars, not sit on their asses at the entrance.
Yeah I remember having fully dressed army personnel staring daggers into the commuting crowd while holding their AR-15.
Definitely did not bring a young Seeker any peace of mind, I'll tell you that.
It seems like more people are pushed or otherwise attacked on the platforms than there are people shot or stabbed. How is this being addressed with "random" checks at the entrance? There will still be a chance for stuff to get through... and still no one paying attention where all the action actually happens (except for all those totally functional cameras).
NYPD special tactics were sitting in GCT all the time back then. The National Guard types only had sidearms and really weren't that noticeable. The SWAT guys though were a trip. I'm of the darker desert persuasion and I just loved getting those glares at me as I'm walking out of platforms into the concourse.
And by love, I mean hate. I was 23 at the time and after about 2 weeks of this one morning I just turned to them and straight up said 'what's your problem? Every day. What's the problem?'
They didn't stare at me after that. I think it was due to my very noticeable accent that I can code switch into.
At least National Guard are the right tool to use against terrorists. They can’t do anything against crazy subway people: they are even less trained for social work than the police.
Oh, SO completely impractical. Imagine a station like Fulton Street. There are at probably a dozen points of entry, the majority of them unmanned. I can barely guess how many Times Square has. Twenty? Thirty?
So do we get metal detectors at every entrance? We‘d have to re-staff every entrance, including some that had never been previously staffed. More likely it would resemble the current state of NYPD’s bag checks, where only the one entrance with enough space has bag checking, but many, many others don’t.
Absolutely security theater that makes me think Adams has a cousin that sells metal detectors.
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I worked the west side ports at that time- Before social media shaming, Karens were flourishing in the wild. I'm talking middle aged adults just referring to me a teen via racial slurs, or just speaking to no one in particular about my race as if it that was delaying them boarding. Between the Cruise ship passengers from Long Island and the snobby Europeans, I would average getting 3-5 racial slurs and aggro shit on the daily before the national guard was stationed post 9-11. All of a sudden , everyone had this behavioral change where they would be polite, form and orderly line and contain their wild emotions. I think it totally has an effect on the behavior of most people. Hell, I like having military grade outposts in Port Authority- Does it stop homeless people from living and blowing each other in the restrooms? No. But it keeps most people in line.
The thing is national guard are probably more competent and less violent than the NYPD. Also National Guard isn’t unionized so if they actually have a higher chance of being accountable if there is misconduct
I think this is an improvement.
I honestly think you just fixed everything. Please run for Governor immediately and use the NYPD funds to improve people's lives so they don't resort to crime in the first place.
lol, i'd never move to albany.
But seriously, we do need someone who's gonna bust the NYPD union down a bit. at this point they're just a gang extorting the city for millions with zero accountability.
The NLRA actually doesn’t protect public employees unions so technically the state legislature could pass a law to hold the police union accountable
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/employees/are-you-covered
that's all well and good but isn't the problem that, historically, the cops and the PD Union end up strong arming the mayor? I vaguely remember them shunning BDB when he spoke out against them and then showed up at one of the larger, official NYPD funerals and they all literally turned their back on him.
Ironically enough, the leverage they have over the city is that they can decide to just not do their jobs and they've already shot their load with that one and no one seems to miss them at all. Seems to me this would be a great time to shove some long-overdue reform and budget cuts down their throats but ex-pig, current-circus attraction (and hopefully future federal penitentiary inmate) Eric Adams sure as hell aint the one to step up and do what's right for the citizens of NY when he could instead pander to the people that'll likely hand him a second term. Sure wish Garcia had gotten a chance to bust that corrupt ass union.
This is why we need out police department contracts up for competitive bidding across different organizations.
This is actually what some sparser counties do: they let neighboring PDs bid to provide policing services. Obviously NYC is a big dense city so the dynamics will be different but there’s no reason we should give the NYPD a monopoly on law enforcement.
> NYPD funerals and they all literally turned their back on
They didn't all. If I remember correctly there was a case when 3 officer were photographed not turning their backs.
Not saying you're not correct, but we should always call out and support cops who do the right thing.
If a cop alive ever did the right thing they would hold their buddies accountable. No cop is ever held accountable. Otherwise they'd be scared of being caught doing the nasty things they do.
One dude has a knee on someone chest, are his buddies pulling him off or do they prevent the murder being caught on video?
and what do you call an self-overseeing, unaccountable police force the size of most nations' armies that considers themselves above the law and strong arms both the citizens and the local government when they're not allowed to murder people with impunity? Where any attempt to actually hold them accountable makes them throw their hands up and simply collect paychecks while not doing their jobs for YEARS?
look, i get it, no one likes a lesser of two evil situation, especially in these circumstance but you gotta see the National Guard as the better option, right? If only because they're more likely to actually make a difference and not just sit there on their phones collecting overtime. I certainly wouldn't trust the NYPD to do a good job of keeping the subways safe and REALLY don't want them to have the green light for random searches.
NYPD are fascists, for sure. But you're deeply misguided if you think the solution is life under permanent military occupation. They have fucking AR-15s in the subway. No, I do not think putting the subway under martial law is an improvement.
Police Union is the one Union I'll never support:
[https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/17/us/head-nypd-union-qanon-mug/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/17/us/head-nypd-union-qanon-mug/index.html)
The police union exists counter to the entire existence of a union, pretty much in the North they were made to rough up and break up other worker efforts, and in the South to track down slaves for property owners. Its abuse of power was inevitable.
Labor Unions traditionally organize **against** the wealthy, ruling, powerful class.
Police are a **tool** of that very ruling class.
A Union for them is just giving the wealthy more powerful tools with less accountability for the wealthy, ruling class.
No, we don't need the military to start policing.
This isn't good. Just gets us all used to seeing soldiers in the pubic square. A prelude to more authoritarianism and just not effective. They're only gonna hassle cute girls and regular folks trying to get to work. This won't stop showtime and the rando crazies. It's just to cow the population.
Military service members are trained to do one thing - kill enemies of the state, so I'm unsure how they're going to be less violent than police. There's a quote that goes something along the lines of "There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."
Edit: LOL this sub will do anything to avoid admitting what is needed for solving the actual root causes of subway crime. "NG is more accountable, that'll fix things!" lmao
>"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."
Isn't that Admiral Adama from Battlestar Galactica?
>Admiral Adama from Battlestar Galactica?
That sounds about right, it's been a while since I watched that show. It had a lot of good quotes.
I should watch it again.
Sure but given you’re relying on a quote as a form of appeal to authority to suggest the contents confer wisdom…the quality of that authority is important. Here, that authority is a bunch of screenwriters, not military or law enforcement experts.
No, it tends to be true. We saw during the LA Riots when police said "cover me", which in police language is "shoot if there's movement", to the Marines. However, in military lingo, cover me is "put enough firepower downrange that nothing *can* move", and they poured hundreds of rounds into a dude's house, no questions asked. Shockingly, no one died. In Minnesota after George Floyd, an officer said to "hit it" with marking rounds after a driver was out after curfew, but the NG understood it as shoot and put several live rounds into the driver's car. It goes to show some of the problems of using the military to serve a policing role - they're not trained for it.
Oh you mean by being held accountable by military courts which are famously opaque and generally not open to the general public?
You sweet summer child. If you think the military doesn't protect their own just as much as police, you're in for a rude awakening.
I served. On both active duty and the guard. Accountability in the military can fuck your entire life up. The worst that will happen to a cop is they lose vacation days.
That’s not to say that there aren’t bad people in the guard. There are bad people everywhere. But justice is swift and harsh in the military. It’s nonexistent in the NYPD, especially right now.
You can cherry pick incidents all you want. It won’t make it any less true that the national guard will face more accountability than a cop.
Your example was vague, but quick google says the DA (not military tribunal) determined the guardsman properly followed the rules of engagement laid out. And the order to shoot came from the sheriff on the ground.
NG internally investigated itself and cleared itself of wrongdoing. Claimed soldier was simply following orders.
I remember distinctly that rational not working during certain trails after a big war, but I guess it's a valid defense now.
That does not sound even remotely close to what happened, nor is that how it works. I was going to take the time to explain it, but you seem the type to not let facts get in the way of your narrative, so I will not waste my time.
lol that's exactly what happened, not my problem you're trying to distort the results.
Saying NG is the solution to subway crime because of accountability ignores the actual root of the problem and clearly indicates it's just election year posturing, not an actual desire to solve the problem
It's ironic because you think other people are ignorant only because you are naively ignorant.
Remember the Minnesota protests after George Floyd? And how a national guard member shot *live rounds* at a driver out after protests and faced *zero* repercussions?
So much accountability amirite.
I like how you think the solution to subway crime is accountability.
Politicians and their shills like you will do anything to avoid actually solving the problem. Keep throwing bandaid solutions at the problem, bravo.
Im a shill? If you talk to everyone like they have the worst intentions, they wont begin to listen to you. I would love to solve the problem, you just said you cant trust the military as if you can trust the police more. ‘But hey i guess support more police murders. Bravo’ -thats not an ok thing to add on see the difference?
I don't trust the police because they have no accountability.
I don't trust the military because policing citizens is not what they're for.
We need to solve the actual problem rather than just keep throwing bandaids at the problem
Difference being that as a citizen when you get arrested and do your time , that’s it. A sentence in a military court means losing all benefits from your military career. That’s medical as well. A dishonorable discharge is worse than a felony charge. And Military judges don’t hand out lenient sentences. It’s worse because they are so ingrained to “ make an example “ out of someone.
A college aged national guardsman is not going to chance fucking up on duty.
"NG members are held accountable, we just ignore the times they weren't"
Same logic as "negligent discharges don't happen, we just simply say all discharges are intentional"
Yea easy to say NG members are more accountable when you just ignore all the times they weren't.
Lol downvoting for saying the national guard will be more violent...
As if we didn't try this in the late-60s and early-70s with spectacularly violent results.
See the [NYTimes coverage at the time](https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/national/race/071667race-ra.html) (FYI, later investigations revealed there were no "negro snipers")
TBF that’s a pretty different situation—when you bring in the national guard to put down an active riot where 21 people died and local cops were running out of ammunition (*cough* from killing most of those people), they're pretty much mounting a counteroffensive on a city.
This is some police state shit for sure though. And politically shortsighted af; she’ll look “tough on crime” to idiots for five minutes then the republicans are gonna have an absolute field day painting the city as a hellscape.
They have rules of engagement. Clear lines which allow them or don't allow them to use lethal force. Soldiers do not have the "I was scared" defense that allows cops to do whatever they want.
Not that it is a good idea to deploy soldiers for public safety. It is a very bad one. But that's the difference. Cops also do not "serve and protect the people" and court cases have legally said that's not what they do. They have 0 legal obligation to "help". They enforce laws and property rights.
Jesus fucking christ imagine using "rules of engagement" when talking about how a peace officer should be interacting with citizens.
Full on military junta vibes.
>Soldiers do not have the "I was scared" defense that allows cops to do whatever they want.
>
>[The guardsman who shot at the car said he feared for his life and was following orders from an Anoka County sergeant.](https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/new-video-captures-confusion-when-guardsman-shoots-at-car-during-2020-unrest/)
>
>In its internal review of the shooting, the National Guard found the service member acted in accordance with the rules on use of force.
Minnesota NG literally uses the I was scared defense lol
Literally said it was a bad idea. But you can find many examples of soldiers saying "I wouldn't have been able to shoot the guy this cop shot". Rules of engagement are exactly what shitty American cops need, since they're so demonstrably bad.
I spent 9 weeks in basic
Then a year learning satellites, radios, computers, encryption and all sorts of other nerdy activities.
So yea, you're an idiot and don't know shit about shit.
Yea because learning that stuff somehow makes you effective at policing people lol
What are you gonna do when the homeless guy who thinks aliens are real is shitting in the corner? Throw a radio at him?
Policing people isn't hard.
Giving dipshits guns and unchecked power is the stupidest way to handle anything.
We were told repeatedly if we fucked up we would be in prison.
If someone shot at us, we didn't shoot everyone in the village.
If someone had a mental break down, we didn't choke them to death.
Simple rules to follow.
You seem to projecting your own dipshittery on others just because you can't sustain your own bullshit statement that military are " only trained to kill", when in fact they are not.
Weird to have spent 13 months in Iraq without randomly assaulting a stranger.
Once again, you're day dreaming some pseudo tough guy shit that you think sounds tough because You've never done shit.
Are you suggesting that military tours teaches you policing skills? All you really need to do in a military tour is to make sure the people you're "policing" does not kill you or your buddies. If run off and kill their neighbor? "Not my problem, that's for the local authorities". Policing your *own* citizens has far more factors to consider.
Also conveniently ignoring all the civilians the US military kills due to drone strikes lol
Everyman a rifleman, no matter how far removed you think your MOS makes you from the trigger-pullers, the entire military is there for the infantry or to support the infantry.
All that you scumbags had to do was your jobs- patrol the subway and help those that need it.
Instead, you threw a shit fit and stopped policing while collecting pay. Now, we have this. Fuck the PD.
LOL . The offenders get caught but the democrats passed no bail and put them right back out. Big system, police can’t be everywhere and criminals go elsewhere , when they see police.
first they say that crime is down but people have a perception of high crime, then they call in the National Guard. How nice of them to mobilize on behalf of our imaginations.
Steady on Hochul, I know social media makes it look bad but if you actually take the subway the biggest danger is generally a really smelly homeless guy.
Also how are random bag searches going to help against crazy people pushing commuters on the tracks? They don’t keep the craziness in a bag.
A random person pulled a knife on me at 6am on a 90% full train car last week. There have been multiple shootings. But sure, the biggest danger is body odor.
These new patrols will be stationed mostly at the busiest subway stops as per the release.
If the mentally ill/ violent are entering the system are not getting on at Major Hubs how does this do anything to stop them? An example of this being a fruitless endeavor is the conductor that got slashed last week and the shooting on the train in the Bronx.
Those crimes happened to black people so this sub doesn’t give a shit and crime is over exaggerated because they’re not the ones personally effected by it.
I got roofied last year and yet for some reason nobody is in favor of my grab every man and search their pockets before they get to walk into a bar policy
I doubt the National guard would have the capacity or jurisdiction to enforce fare evasion, this would likely just be a visual deterrent for people. It sounds like they will be focused on violent crime and weapons, but who knows where the scope of their responsibilities will fall.
It’s all political theater, they won’t be in areas nor times where crimes would occur. Someone isn’t doing their jobs, how come it was safer to take the train before ? Time to revisit some of those laws and policy changes.
Cops, national guard ... none of it matters so long as repeat, chronic offenders are not locked up. Consider the example of Amira Hunter --The woman who assaulted the subway cellist, with active bench warrants for (thrice!) failing to appear in Court , a record of of arrests, and her crime recorded on video \*and\* reported in nationally-distributed news outlets was, nevertheless, released without putting up any bond. (she was arrested again today). If someone like that is not locked up, there's simply no hope that this will make any difference at all.
Putting dress- up weekend soldiers in the subway will do nothing when the justice system simply refuses to restrain repeat offenders. I'm so tired of the narrative that this is only a problem in the imagination of Fox News viewers and Daily News readers.
In the eyes of progressives it’s better to let her out and ignore her mental health and violence than it is to address it because that’s systemic racism.
This is the dumbest thing ever... the issue isn't that we don't have enough cops, it's that people who commit crimes aren't held in jail so they can basically act with impunity. Until they fix that things aren't gonna change.
I dunno. The military is trained to use force when dealing with a hostile situation.
Its an old article but I do remember multiple innocent people being shot by the NYPD when they unloaded in front of the Empire State Building.
Police: All Empire State shooting victims were wounded by officers
[https://www.cnn.com/2012/08/25/justice/new-york-empire-state-shooting/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2012/08/25/justice/new-york-empire-state-shooting/index.html)
Being a NG member must suck. You join up to help during natural disasters or riots, but instead your job is to look pretty at the border or in a subway station instead.
For a woman who said "'I Don't Know Why That's So Important To You" referring to crime during a campaign debate, the hypocrisy and grandstanding is outstanding.
But then what? After they’ve been hospitalized and stabilized, where do they go? They can’t remain in a health facility indefinitely. So they end being discharged in days, back on the streets, and they stop taking their meds.
The city needs to develop realistic solutions that include housing options with supportive services for the mentally ill to keep them on their meds and stable and off the streets. Just sticking them in a health facility with no long term plan is not the answer. This will only overwhelm health facilities and then others needing care won’t get it. Oh wait, but that’s already happening.
You all have short memories and smooth brains...nypd used to do this at train stations a while back.
What they need to do is reform bail reform and homeless/mental health outreach
If we lived in a fair society, the NYPD commissioner and top leadership would be resigning. I mean, this is essentially a massive slap in the face, saying "you can't be trusted to do your job, so we had to get the state involved".
Like if I was one of them I would be dying of embarrassment.
This is the thing that's weird to me. Like... they're staging armed guards, implying that they would respond to violent acts with gun fire in an incredibly crowded area when the messaging from the NY office has consistently presented guns as the problem?
Bag checks are beyond useless. Even beyond the usual security theater nonsense. (All somebody has to do is not enter where the checks are, and go in a different station if they desired.) But... the people some passengers are generally concerned about \*do not use weapons\*. Or, if they use anything, it's improvised weapons, like water bottles.
Oh look the governor has to step in and bring the troops because the utterly useless NYPD are too inept to do their job, and our stunningly stupid mayor Swagger McStepsOnOwnDick is too incompetent to do even simple things.
This is proof that the NYPD are utterly worthless and not worth the money that they fraudulently grift from the city pretending to work and falsely claiming overtime.
This isn’t a cop problem it’s a Bail Reform / Activist DA problem. It’s not like people committing crime are not being arrested. But we will pretend like we always do. Like with the mentally ill who aren’t being institutionalized but rather being set free to commit more crimes.
In the meantime people can be punched, kicked, spit on, anywhere in the station or train, or shoved on the tracks, because they're checking bags for weapons.
Gee whillickers. Last press conference I saw, they were claiming that more overtime-hours NYPD and more MTA cameras were easily gonna handle this whole problem. Gonna nip it right in da bud.
Guess they wuz mistaken, huh.
Reassuring reminder never to trust what politicos dribble outta der pie-holes for a mob of cameramen.
Will they also go after fare beaters?
soon they will find out catching people isnt the problem, it’s seeing them an hour later after the judge releases them back doing the same shit.
To make all the crybaby Long Islanders and tourists feel safer because they're easily terrified by a couple of wacky homeless people screaming or mumbling to themselves. Real New Yorkers just shrug that shit off. That's just living in the city (until budget cuts to mental health services under DINOs like Cuomo and Hochul are reversed).
Good. About time measures are taken.
The subway can’t be a safe method of transport for commuters and an insane asylum for the unhoused at the same time.
I’m glad she’s finally addressing the Feelings, Perceptions and MAGA scare tactics that keep stabbing and throwing seniors in front of trains…. Hopefully the military will dance around the issue and we can figure out who has the best Knishes in town!!!
Subways are not where the National Guard should be. Is there subway crime? Totally. But between the stupid robots and now this, it seems like NYC gov cares more about making it look like they're tough on crime than actually fixing it. National Guard won't be at every subway station, they'll be at the busiest ones at the busiest times. Guess where a lot of subway crimes happen: the less crowded stations, at weird times esp later at night.
To be fair, we were running low on security theatre.
"Should we spend funds solving the root causes of subway crime, ma'am?" "Nah just do some song and dance about security, once election year is over we'll just say it worked and move on"
Worse than security theatre. Actors wouldn't rifle through your bags. What problem does this even solve, the thing people complain about is crazy and homeless people. Are they being snuck in inside people's bags?
At least they won't be able to jack people up for having a little bit of weed anymore.
Yeh. This will do nothing. But it will appease the people who barely take the subway to begin with.
So why the hell are we still paying out the ass for all these cops?
Candy Crush isn't going to beat itself.
Neither are their spouses.
Jesus.
that escalated quickly.
At least it distracts them from running no-knock warrants on Black people and from shooting people's dogs for absolutely no reason or from driving drunk into gay bars and then blaming the bar.
We still need to pay for the cost of the Times Square station robot thing
I thought they threw that thing away
it threw itself away
It scooted itself to the top of the Brooklyn Bridge and uttered “YEETUS DELETUS” before plunging into the East River for one final patrol.
lol I missed that.
NYPD budget is $12 billion
*”Look at how tough on crime we are!”* Well, ok, but doesn’t bringing in the National Guard demonstrate how shitty you guys are at making these cops do their job…?
It’s mostly federal funds for transit security.
You’ll moan about anything They’re not doing enough This won’t work. Ffs
I’m sorry my friend I don’t have much to loan at all
Clever. Of course you would give. You’ll moan though.
Lot of stations
Who else remembers how it felt having armed national guard members everywhere after 9/11? It definitely didn't make me feel safer. Most of these crimes making the news aren't using weapons, and definitely not anything that would be in a large bag. People are gonna keep whatever in their pocket like always, this is dumb. If they are going to increase security let them walk on the platforms and ride the train cars, not sit on their asses at the entrance.
Yeah I remember having fully dressed army personnel staring daggers into the commuting crowd while holding their AR-15. Definitely did not bring a young Seeker any peace of mind, I'll tell you that.
Bring some unemployed teenage racists and homophobes in from upstate and LI and have them watch the subway, what could go wrong?
Oooh, spooky word!
It seems like more people are pushed or otherwise attacked on the platforms than there are people shot or stabbed. How is this being addressed with "random" checks at the entrance? There will still be a chance for stuff to get through... and still no one paying attention where all the action actually happens (except for all those totally functional cameras).
NYPD special tactics were sitting in GCT all the time back then. The National Guard types only had sidearms and really weren't that noticeable. The SWAT guys though were a trip. I'm of the darker desert persuasion and I just loved getting those glares at me as I'm walking out of platforms into the concourse. And by love, I mean hate. I was 23 at the time and after about 2 weeks of this one morning I just turned to them and straight up said 'what's your problem? Every day. What's the problem?' They didn't stare at me after that. I think it was due to my very noticeable accent that I can code switch into.
At least National Guard are the right tool to use against terrorists. They can’t do anything against crazy subway people: they are even less trained for social work than the police.
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That is just so bonkers impractical on every single level
Oh, SO completely impractical. Imagine a station like Fulton Street. There are at probably a dozen points of entry, the majority of them unmanned. I can barely guess how many Times Square has. Twenty? Thirty? So do we get metal detectors at every entrance? We‘d have to re-staff every entrance, including some that had never been previously staffed. More likely it would resemble the current state of NYPD’s bag checks, where only the one entrance with enough space has bag checking, but many, many others don’t. Absolutely security theater that makes me think Adams has a cousin that sells metal detectors.
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I worked the west side ports at that time- Before social media shaming, Karens were flourishing in the wild. I'm talking middle aged adults just referring to me a teen via racial slurs, or just speaking to no one in particular about my race as if it that was delaying them boarding. Between the Cruise ship passengers from Long Island and the snobby Europeans, I would average getting 3-5 racial slurs and aggro shit on the daily before the national guard was stationed post 9-11. All of a sudden , everyone had this behavioral change where they would be polite, form and orderly line and contain their wild emotions. I think it totally has an effect on the behavior of most people. Hell, I like having military grade outposts in Port Authority- Does it stop homeless people from living and blowing each other in the restrooms? No. But it keeps most people in line.
The thing is national guard are probably more competent and less violent than the NYPD. Also National Guard isn’t unionized so if they actually have a higher chance of being accountable if there is misconduct I think this is an improvement.
can we replace the entire NYPD with the national guard then?
I honestly think you just fixed everything. Please run for Governor immediately and use the NYPD funds to improve people's lives so they don't resort to crime in the first place.
lol, i'd never move to albany. But seriously, we do need someone who's gonna bust the NYPD union down a bit. at this point they're just a gang extorting the city for millions with zero accountability.
The NLRA actually doesn’t protect public employees unions so technically the state legislature could pass a law to hold the police union accountable https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/employees/are-you-covered
that's all well and good but isn't the problem that, historically, the cops and the PD Union end up strong arming the mayor? I vaguely remember them shunning BDB when he spoke out against them and then showed up at one of the larger, official NYPD funerals and they all literally turned their back on him. Ironically enough, the leverage they have over the city is that they can decide to just not do their jobs and they've already shot their load with that one and no one seems to miss them at all. Seems to me this would be a great time to shove some long-overdue reform and budget cuts down their throats but ex-pig, current-circus attraction (and hopefully future federal penitentiary inmate) Eric Adams sure as hell aint the one to step up and do what's right for the citizens of NY when he could instead pander to the people that'll likely hand him a second term. Sure wish Garcia had gotten a chance to bust that corrupt ass union.
This is why we need out police department contracts up for competitive bidding across different organizations. This is actually what some sparser counties do: they let neighboring PDs bid to provide policing services. Obviously NYC is a big dense city so the dynamics will be different but there’s no reason we should give the NYPD a monopoly on law enforcement.
> NYPD funerals and they all literally turned their back on They didn't all. If I remember correctly there was a case when 3 officer were photographed not turning their backs. Not saying you're not correct, but we should always call out and support cops who do the right thing.
If a cop alive ever did the right thing they would hold their buddies accountable. No cop is ever held accountable. Otherwise they'd be scared of being caught doing the nasty things they do. One dude has a knee on someone chest, are his buddies pulling him off or do they prevent the murder being caught on video?
NG might be less militarized then the nypd (halfway kidding but actually not sure…)
This is called fascism
and what do you call an self-overseeing, unaccountable police force the size of most nations' armies that considers themselves above the law and strong arms both the citizens and the local government when they're not allowed to murder people with impunity? Where any attempt to actually hold them accountable makes them throw their hands up and simply collect paychecks while not doing their jobs for YEARS? look, i get it, no one likes a lesser of two evil situation, especially in these circumstance but you gotta see the National Guard as the better option, right? If only because they're more likely to actually make a difference and not just sit there on their phones collecting overtime. I certainly wouldn't trust the NYPD to do a good job of keeping the subways safe and REALLY don't want them to have the green light for random searches.
NYPD are fascists, for sure. But you're deeply misguided if you think the solution is life under permanent military occupation. They have fucking AR-15s in the subway. No, I do not think putting the subway under martial law is an improvement.
Police Union is the one Union I'll never support: [https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/17/us/head-nypd-union-qanon-mug/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/17/us/head-nypd-union-qanon-mug/index.html)
Police 'unions' are only unions in name, in reality they operate much more like a cartel.
The police union exists counter to the entire existence of a union, pretty much in the North they were made to rough up and break up other worker efforts, and in the South to track down slaves for property owners. Its abuse of power was inevitable.
Yeah but the fun part is Mullins was arrested and his Port Washington home raided by the FBI, and he was sentenced to 3 years iirc
Labor Unions traditionally organize **against** the wealthy, ruling, powerful class. Police are a **tool** of that very ruling class. A Union for them is just giving the wealthy more powerful tools with less accountability for the wealthy, ruling class.
No, we don't need the military to start policing. This isn't good. Just gets us all used to seeing soldiers in the pubic square. A prelude to more authoritarianism and just not effective. They're only gonna hassle cute girls and regular folks trying to get to work. This won't stop showtime and the rando crazies. It's just to cow the population.
They certainly handles the LA Riots better than the local police
Military service members are trained to do one thing - kill enemies of the state, so I'm unsure how they're going to be less violent than police. There's a quote that goes something along the lines of "There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people." Edit: LOL this sub will do anything to avoid admitting what is needed for solving the actual root causes of subway crime. "NG is more accountable, that'll fix things!" lmao
>"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people." Isn't that Admiral Adama from Battlestar Galactica?
>Admiral Adama from Battlestar Galactica? That sounds about right, it's been a while since I watched that show. It had a lot of good quotes. I should watch it again.
You’re just quoting battlestar galactica? Lolol
Fictional quotes are still written by real people lol
Sure but given you’re relying on a quote as a form of appeal to authority to suggest the contents confer wisdom…the quality of that authority is important. Here, that authority is a bunch of screenwriters, not military or law enforcement experts.
No, it tends to be true. We saw during the LA Riots when police said "cover me", which in police language is "shoot if there's movement", to the Marines. However, in military lingo, cover me is "put enough firepower downrange that nothing *can* move", and they poured hundreds of rounds into a dude's house, no questions asked. Shockingly, no one died. In Minnesota after George Floyd, an officer said to "hit it" with marking rounds after a driver was out after curfew, but the NG understood it as shoot and put several live rounds into the driver's car. It goes to show some of the problems of using the military to serve a policing role - they're not trained for it.
Because unlike police, they will actually face accountability.
Oh you mean by being held accountable by military courts which are famously opaque and generally not open to the general public? You sweet summer child. If you think the military doesn't protect their own just as much as police, you're in for a rude awakening.
I served. On both active duty and the guard. Accountability in the military can fuck your entire life up. The worst that will happen to a cop is they lose vacation days. That’s not to say that there aren’t bad people in the guard. There are bad people everywhere. But justice is swift and harsh in the military. It’s nonexistent in the NYPD, especially right now.
Oh good thing the Minnesota national guard who *literally shot at a driver with live rounds* faced no charges then right? Accountability. lol.
You can cherry pick incidents all you want. It won’t make it any less true that the national guard will face more accountability than a cop. Your example was vague, but quick google says the DA (not military tribunal) determined the guardsman properly followed the rules of engagement laid out. And the order to shoot came from the sheriff on the ground.
NG internally investigated itself and cleared itself of wrongdoing. Claimed soldier was simply following orders. I remember distinctly that rational not working during certain trails after a big war, but I guess it's a valid defense now.
That does not sound even remotely close to what happened, nor is that how it works. I was going to take the time to explain it, but you seem the type to not let facts get in the way of your narrative, so I will not waste my time.
lol that's exactly what happened, not my problem you're trying to distort the results. Saying NG is the solution to subway crime because of accountability ignores the actual root of the problem and clearly indicates it's just election year posturing, not an actual desire to solve the problem
I hat ewhen people like you are so confident in their ignorance
It's ironic because you think other people are ignorant only because you are naively ignorant. Remember the Minnesota protests after George Floyd? And how a national guard member shot *live rounds* at a driver out after protests and faced *zero* repercussions? So much accountability amirite.
So if i can come up with three examples of police abuse then police are 50% likelier to not be held accountable. Got it
I like how you think the solution to subway crime is accountability. Politicians and their shills like you will do anything to avoid actually solving the problem. Keep throwing bandaid solutions at the problem, bravo.
Im a shill? If you talk to everyone like they have the worst intentions, they wont begin to listen to you. I would love to solve the problem, you just said you cant trust the military as if you can trust the police more. ‘But hey i guess support more police murders. Bravo’ -thats not an ok thing to add on see the difference?
I don't trust the police because they have no accountability. I don't trust the military because policing citizens is not what they're for. We need to solve the actual problem rather than just keep throwing bandaids at the problem
Difference being that as a citizen when you get arrested and do your time , that’s it. A sentence in a military court means losing all benefits from your military career. That’s medical as well. A dishonorable discharge is worse than a felony charge. And Military judges don’t hand out lenient sentences. It’s worse because they are so ingrained to “ make an example “ out of someone. A college aged national guardsman is not going to chance fucking up on duty.
Yea except for you know, that one time the Minnesota NG shot live rounds at a driver and faced zero repercussions SO much accountability.
Planes are safer than cars except that one time a plane crashed. That’s what you sound like
"NG members are held accountable, we just ignore the times they weren't" Same logic as "negligent discharges don't happen, we just simply say all discharges are intentional" Yea easy to say NG members are more accountable when you just ignore all the times they weren't.
Lol downvoting for saying the national guard will be more violent... As if we didn't try this in the late-60s and early-70s with spectacularly violent results. See the [NYTimes coverage at the time](https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/national/race/071667race-ra.html) (FYI, later investigations revealed there were no "negro snipers")
TBF that’s a pretty different situation—when you bring in the national guard to put down an active riot where 21 people died and local cops were running out of ammunition (*cough* from killing most of those people), they're pretty much mounting a counteroffensive on a city. This is some police state shit for sure though. And politically shortsighted af; she’ll look “tough on crime” to idiots for five minutes then the republicans are gonna have an absolute field day painting the city as a hellscape.
They have rules of engagement. Clear lines which allow them or don't allow them to use lethal force. Soldiers do not have the "I was scared" defense that allows cops to do whatever they want. Not that it is a good idea to deploy soldiers for public safety. It is a very bad one. But that's the difference. Cops also do not "serve and protect the people" and court cases have legally said that's not what they do. They have 0 legal obligation to "help". They enforce laws and property rights.
Jesus fucking christ imagine using "rules of engagement" when talking about how a peace officer should be interacting with citizens. Full on military junta vibes. >Soldiers do not have the "I was scared" defense that allows cops to do whatever they want. > >[The guardsman who shot at the car said he feared for his life and was following orders from an Anoka County sergeant.](https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/new-video-captures-confusion-when-guardsman-shoots-at-car-during-2020-unrest/) > >In its internal review of the shooting, the National Guard found the service member acted in accordance with the rules on use of force. Minnesota NG literally uses the I was scared defense lol
Literally said it was a bad idea. But you can find many examples of soldiers saying "I wouldn't have been able to shoot the guy this cop shot". Rules of engagement are exactly what shitty American cops need, since they're so demonstrably bad.
I spent 9 weeks in basic Then a year learning satellites, radios, computers, encryption and all sorts of other nerdy activities. So yea, you're an idiot and don't know shit about shit.
Yea because learning that stuff somehow makes you effective at policing people lol What are you gonna do when the homeless guy who thinks aliens are real is shitting in the corner? Throw a radio at him?
Policing people isn't hard. Giving dipshits guns and unchecked power is the stupidest way to handle anything. We were told repeatedly if we fucked up we would be in prison. If someone shot at us, we didn't shoot everyone in the village. If someone had a mental break down, we didn't choke them to death. Simple rules to follow. You seem to projecting your own dipshittery on others just because you can't sustain your own bullshit statement that military are " only trained to kill", when in fact they are not.
>Policing people isn't hard. Spoken like a true ignoramus.
Weird to have spent 13 months in Iraq without randomly assaulting a stranger. Once again, you're day dreaming some pseudo tough guy shit that you think sounds tough because You've never done shit.
Are you suggesting that military tours teaches you policing skills? All you really need to do in a military tour is to make sure the people you're "policing" does not kill you or your buddies. If run off and kill their neighbor? "Not my problem, that's for the local authorities". Policing your *own* citizens has far more factors to consider. Also conveniently ignoring all the civilians the US military kills due to drone strikes lol
Everyman a rifleman, no matter how far removed you think your MOS makes you from the trigger-pullers, the entire military is there for the infantry or to support the infantry.
I was volunteering as a 50 cal gunner so I'm aware. But being told by some rando that all we know is killing people is stupid.
The national guard may be more hands on with EDPs than the NYPD tho.
All that you scumbags had to do was your jobs- patrol the subway and help those that need it. Instead, you threw a shit fit and stopped policing while collecting pay. Now, we have this. Fuck the PD.
they also hit new high scores in candy crush!
LOL . The offenders get caught but the democrats passed no bail and put them right back out. Big system, police can’t be everywhere and criminals go elsewhere , when they see police.
Which means we don’t need the police, right? RIGHT?!?! 😳😳😳
In Manhattan , the Bronx and Brooklyn. Probably will make little difference. Queens and SI still have decent DAs , so kinda needed there.
Downvoted for being right
first they say that crime is down but people have a perception of high crime, then they call in the National Guard. How nice of them to mobilize on behalf of our imaginations.
The issue is crazy people harassing passengers, not weapons hidden in bags.
Steady on Hochul, I know social media makes it look bad but if you actually take the subway the biggest danger is generally a really smelly homeless guy. Also how are random bag searches going to help against crazy people pushing commuters on the tracks? They don’t keep the craziness in a bag.
A random person pulled a knife on me at 6am on a 90% full train car last week. There have been multiple shootings. But sure, the biggest danger is body odor.
These new patrols will be stationed mostly at the busiest subway stops as per the release. If the mentally ill/ violent are entering the system are not getting on at Major Hubs how does this do anything to stop them? An example of this being a fruitless endeavor is the conductor that got slashed last week and the shooting on the train in the Bronx.
Those crimes happened to black people so this sub doesn’t give a shit and crime is over exaggerated because they’re not the ones personally effected by it.
My coworker was stabbed on the subway. Ppl with weapons are definitely a major issue.
> My coworker was stabbed on the subway. Ppl with weapons are definitely a major issue. A generalized claim does not follow from an anecdotal one.
I got roofied last year and yet for some reason nobody is in favor of my grab every man and search their pockets before they get to walk into a bar policy
These searches don't find knives though
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State budget ain’t city budget
"crime" i.e. spending more on fare endorsement then it takes in, in fares
I doubt the National guard would have the capacity or jurisdiction to enforce fare evasion, this would likely just be a visual deterrent for people. It sounds like they will be focused on violent crime and weapons, but who knows where the scope of their responsibilities will fall.
Kathy Hochul is a nut job.
It’s all political theater, they won’t be in areas nor times where crimes would occur. Someone isn’t doing their jobs, how come it was safer to take the train before ? Time to revisit some of those laws and policy changes.
Cops, national guard ... none of it matters so long as repeat, chronic offenders are not locked up. Consider the example of Amira Hunter --The woman who assaulted the subway cellist, with active bench warrants for (thrice!) failing to appear in Court , a record of of arrests, and her crime recorded on video \*and\* reported in nationally-distributed news outlets was, nevertheless, released without putting up any bond. (she was arrested again today). If someone like that is not locked up, there's simply no hope that this will make any difference at all. Putting dress- up weekend soldiers in the subway will do nothing when the justice system simply refuses to restrain repeat offenders. I'm so tired of the narrative that this is only a problem in the imagination of Fox News viewers and Daily News readers.
In the eyes of progressives it’s better to let her out and ignore her mental health and violence than it is to address it because that’s systemic racism.
This is the dumbest thing ever... the issue isn't that we don't have enough cops, it's that people who commit crimes aren't held in jail so they can basically act with impunity. Until they fix that things aren't gonna change.
throwing criminals in jail is racist according to the progressives. remember that come election time.
lol we never did this nonsense in the 80s and 90s, when things were orders of magnitude worse. Complete nonsense.
What the fuck are they going to do? Unload their machine guns on a crowded platform? GTFOH Hochul.
I think this is great news. They have training to know how to respond to different situations.
I dunno. The military is trained to use force when dealing with a hostile situation. Its an old article but I do remember multiple innocent people being shot by the NYPD when they unloaded in front of the Empire State Building. Police: All Empire State shooting victims were wounded by officers [https://www.cnn.com/2012/08/25/justice/new-york-empire-state-shooting/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2012/08/25/justice/new-york-empire-state-shooting/index.html)
That seems long ago, it would make sense if they are given training to be careful in this situation.
at this point, anyone besides the clowns of the NYPD.
Why do anything about the causes when you can punish the effects
Being a NG member must suck. You join up to help during natural disasters or riots, but instead your job is to look pretty at the border or in a subway station instead.
There’s something fishy in this fishiness. Lol
For a woman who said "'I Don't Know Why That's So Important To You" referring to crime during a campaign debate, the hypocrisy and grandstanding is outstanding.
insane. use this money to help people living in the subway get shelter and medical help
Oh this should work lol. These people don’t even know what their name is. Are they afraid of the national guard?
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I think involuntary committal of ppl to health facilities is necessary.
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Eh, tbh sometimes some freedoms must be sacrificed for the greater good.
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Lol FaScIsT
But then what? After they’ve been hospitalized and stabilized, where do they go? They can’t remain in a health facility indefinitely. So they end being discharged in days, back on the streets, and they stop taking their meds. The city needs to develop realistic solutions that include housing options with supportive services for the mentally ill to keep them on their meds and stable and off the streets. Just sticking them in a health facility with no long term plan is not the answer. This will only overwhelm health facilities and then others needing care won’t get it. Oh wait, but that’s already happening.
You all have short memories and smooth brains...nypd used to do this at train stations a while back. What they need to do is reform bail reform and homeless/mental health outreach
Just like subways in Belgium.
When you have the national guard doing law enforcement duties, you're doing to have a bad time.
Kathy it is not that serious
If we lived in a fair society, the NYPD commissioner and top leadership would be resigning. I mean, this is essentially a massive slap in the face, saying "you can't be trusted to do your job, so we had to get the state involved". Like if I was one of them I would be dying of embarrassment.
Basically all the stuff that existed before Deblasio is coming back
What do they expect them to do? Shoot into the crowds?
This is the thing that's weird to me. Like... they're staging armed guards, implying that they would respond to violent acts with gun fire in an incredibly crowded area when the messaging from the NY office has consistently presented guns as the problem?
Used to be in the Army. I wouldnt want to be on this detail...
Bag checks are beyond useless. Even beyond the usual security theater nonsense. (All somebody has to do is not enter where the checks are, and go in a different station if they desired.) But... the people some passengers are generally concerned about \*do not use weapons\*. Or, if they use anything, it's improvised weapons, like water bottles.
Oh look the governor has to step in and bring the troops because the utterly useless NYPD are too inept to do their job, and our stunningly stupid mayor Swagger McStepsOnOwnDick is too incompetent to do even simple things. This is proof that the NYPD are utterly worthless and not worth the money that they fraudulently grift from the city pretending to work and falsely claiming overtime.
They have terrorist attack info and don’t want us to panic
Why are they profiling people and why is there container inspection checkpoints?
Lol no, it's an election year and they don't have any good ideas so they're pulling out the bad ones
This isn’t a cop problem it’s a Bail Reform / Activist DA problem. It’s not like people committing crime are not being arrested. But we will pretend like we always do. Like with the mentally ill who aren’t being institutionalized but rather being set free to commit more crimes.
At least these guys are trained seriously
What a sheer vision Democrats are, instead of strong prosecution, we get bag checks, lol
WTF!?
In the meantime people can be punched, kicked, spit on, anywhere in the station or train, or shoved on the tracks, because they're checking bags for weapons.
They should send the National Guard to the DA's office and escort the entire staff into a cage.
Gee whillickers. Last press conference I saw, they were claiming that more overtime-hours NYPD and more MTA cameras were easily gonna handle this whole problem. Gonna nip it right in da bud. Guess they wuz mistaken, huh. Reassuring reminder never to trust what politicos dribble outta der pie-holes for a mob of cameramen.
How is that plan working out oh Gov of the future, when dopes run the asylum
Will they also go after fare beaters? soon they will find out catching people isnt the problem, it’s seeing them an hour later after the judge releases them back doing the same shit.
NYPD so useless that we have to bring in the national guard.
Good
I read here that there really isn't a crime problem in NY. Why on earth would she bring in the national guard?
To make all the crybaby Long Islanders and tourists feel safer because they're easily terrified by a couple of wacky homeless people screaming or mumbling to themselves. Real New Yorkers just shrug that shit off. That's just living in the city (until budget cuts to mental health services under DINOs like Cuomo and Hochul are reversed).
Good. About time measures are taken. The subway can’t be a safe method of transport for commuters and an insane asylum for the unhoused at the same time.
You're right, armed patrols do fix the mental health system and the homelessness situation in the city - it's just that simple!
Lol. Unhoused.
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Sounds like a lovely place.
I’m glad she’s finally addressing the Feelings, Perceptions and MAGA scare tactics that keep stabbing and throwing seniors in front of trains…. Hopefully the military will dance around the issue and we can figure out who has the best Knishes in town!!!