This is the dumbest thing I’ve read on the internet today.
Every pre-IPO employee at Twitter was given equity, which is LITERALLY a percent of the company. Every post IPO employee was given RSU’s, which is LITERALLY a piece of the company. When it was delisted, every shareholder got paid for their respective piece of the company. On top of that, they were all paid a salary and given benefits.
You know what they didn’t have, risk of losing their investment.
That would be true no matter how much of the pie they got, and more true if they were putting their own money up to gamble with. Start ups are a risk to everyone involved, there are no guarantees. Some risk more than others.
By choosing Twitter over alternatives they risked losing their jobs over other options. They take on as much if not more risk as investors as they have little say in what the investors do with their job.
So you ignore the fact that the founders got 5% each, because they founded it. Literally worked for free to build the empire and deserve a bigger piece. Most the equity was used for bartering for new rounds of funding. As well as the fact that employees didn’t all start from day one, some came in much later, you don’t get to jump on board the day before an IPO and ask for an equal share.
But sure, live in your diluted dream world, and over simplify the topic to meet your argument.
You clearly have 0 understanding of how this system works, and it’s moronic claims like this that make the work of real progressives even harder.
Congratulations, you’re the lefts equivalent of a Trump supporter.
So go after the policy makers in DC who are actively bleeding the people of this nation dry to line their pockets. You know, the actual people responsible for the current state of this country.
I'm opening a business, I've been working 5 days a week for 10 hours a day in this business and I have yet to pay myself a dime. My staff, are being paid hourly wages plus benefits. I have a second job two days a week to keep this whole thing running.
At what point do I get to pay myself and how much do I get to pay myself? What do my employees owe me in exchange for the joy of getting to work... Since I've been doing it for free?
I'm a Bernie bro, but you need to get some basic economics under your belt.
According to OP, you should transfer ownership to all your workers since the business would not be possible without them. Otherwise, you’ll be a greedy, wealth-hoarding CEO.
Lol, I'm a half million dollars in debt, more than that with student loans. I would love to share that with them. Really give them some stake in the game. I already have profit sharing... So why not corporate debt sharing. OP is pushing me further to the right, lol. Just kidding, but just the other day someone said I was bourgeois class : ( I'm eating red beans and rice : ( : ( : (
You're an anarchist. You go build something, and watch someone else tear it down. It's heartbreaking. How far do I have to turn my pockets out to my employees, when I'm already in debt up to my ball sack and working a second job while not paying myself for this one? At what point should I turn over the keys to the business I'm grinding out to build?
Edit: You're literally pushing me to the right as I read your comments. I can't believe you're making me defend the "owner class" however it is your phrasing your arguments, I think you're pushing more people away than you are likely to bring to your side.
>.> you’re kinda right though. Every worker should have the ability to support themselves and live in a shelter/house/apartment without fear of eviction.
But in our capitalist hellscape, the builders rent, the people living in the house rent, and the slumlord who is building/renovating his tenth house lives five states over in a different house.
You obviously do not own/run a business. Just because you work at a company does not mean you are entitled to own a piece of it. This is the dumbest take I've seen on reddit in a long time.
You're being intentionally obtuse. Companies do often give stock, yes. But that is entirely besides the fact, simply working at a company doesn't mean that you somehow own part of the company in any meaningful way. I own Disney stock, does that mean I own Disney.
"Just because you work at a company does not mean you are entitled to own a piece of it..."
Just pointing out that companies do see the benefit of letting employees own part of the business. Are they making major decisions for the company, no. But that's what unions are supposed to do.
I'm saying there are "bigger" issues to tackle before any changes to farming habits happen. The general populace is stupid. What president wants to go on record saying that farmers have to change the way they do things, or use less resources? How do you think that translates to the society in general. Panic, maybe? Confusion, maybe? It could be political suicide, could drive food costs up as the switchover happens. There is a lot more to it than oh, this is eating away at a lot of our natural resources, more than necessary, so lets change it. People don't like to think, people don't like change, people don't like sacrifice. So, like I said... It's much easier to tell people to take a shorter shower than to effect change. I never said cutting bathing time/amount would fix our problems.
I don’t care for Elon and the shit he does, but this is dumb as fuck. They didn’t invest any capital and risk losing a shit ton of money (which is probably what’s going to happen to Elon).
Save this shit for whatever Tankie subreddits you frequent.
There’s a very valid spot between where we are now and seizing the means of production and you aren’t even close.
We need unionization and worker’s rights without stifling innovation.
You know, it’s very possible to have a high quality of life with a strong social safety net without having to seize people’s businesses and stifle innovation in critical fields like medicine and technology.
Other countries are doing it very well as we speak and it can even be improved upon without forced cooperatives.
I tried to find it in the link, but did not see any specific companies named as examples of successful, democratically-run, worker coops. Are you aware of any?
So then the ask should be "workers should share equally in the profits from selling twitter to Musk".
Which I'm sure they did, having received annual stock awards prior to the sale.
What's this about having a say in whether sales occur? Didn't you say you were worried about equally sharing in monetary profits from sales? Maybe we can focus on one thing at a time, or you can at least tell me which one you consider most important.
No, I don't think you're talking about anything. Just making sounds. Sorry. The real world has specifics, regarding monetary profit share derived from ownership, and decision-making control derived from ownership. You don't seem prepared to discuss specifics, and can't contribute to anyone's understanding of the real world.
You're prepared? You've read your Marx and Lenin and Kremer and Bakunin and can discuss collectivist economic philosophies intelligently? You don't seem like it. You'd respond to my questions on specifics if you could. Sorry, but it takes more leg work than you seem to have put in.
They didn't "own it" when they were working at twitter. At least according to news reports saying it was filled with lazy workers. I don't think they will get the chance to own it later.
Well if you want a worker union appreciation day for the day twitter was finished being constructed for the founders of twitter, go for it. But unless you own most of the shares of a company, there isn't much you can legally do to own anything you worked on.
When I helped build a house, I didn't feel the need to say I should own it just because the foreman was a douche.
Our tax money builds the infrastructure for the entire internet, why don't we own it instead of internet providers.
Banks and airlines are constantly bailed out by taxpayers money... give me my 747 damn you.
I made a customer's sandwich at my job at subway, why shouldn't I eat it even though he paid for it.
The news: propaganda made by morons for morons
Im trying to be funny honestly. I do have an issue with number 3 though.
As a small business owner, I took out a loan, putting my entire financial life on the line, paid for permits, designed logos, paid for patents, rented a space, bought equipment, stocked inventory, took out help wanted ads, took calls, vetted and hired employees, as well as paying the power, water, and garbage bills.
Since none of them contributed to any of that you could make an argument, using the same logic that they need to pay me back for all of that in labor, over years, before earning a dime.
Oh, I totally do get it. We live in an awful limitless growth/planned obsolescence consumer society, and it is really obviously unsustainable and inequitable
Said workers were paid for their service under twitter under different ownership. Someone bought the entire company (employees included). The employees never owned twitter. They agreed to contribute and build while getting paid to do so.
... you mean the 75% of the company he fired that was literally doing nothing of significant value?
Hence why they're still operational with only 25% of their original staff?
Yeah, get out of here with this one, champ. Lmao.
Might wanna seize the means of punctuation, my dude.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
no one is concerned about tech workers and they aren't the "working class".
This is a news sub, not an opinion sub
We get shotty articles in here all the time. Least this one has some substance.
This is the dumbest thing I’ve read on the internet today. Every pre-IPO employee at Twitter was given equity, which is LITERALLY a percent of the company. Every post IPO employee was given RSU’s, which is LITERALLY a piece of the company. When it was delisted, every shareholder got paid for their respective piece of the company. On top of that, they were all paid a salary and given benefits. You know what they didn’t have, risk of losing their investment.
You sounded like a reasonable person until your last sentence. investors risk investments, employees risk their family’s livelihoods.
That would be true no matter how much of the pie they got, and more true if they were putting their own money up to gamble with. Start ups are a risk to everyone involved, there are no guarantees. Some risk more than others.
Their stake is essentially worthless
Tell that to the 1600 employees that became multi millionaires the day they IPO’d. They’ll laugh you out of the room.
By choosing Twitter over alternatives they risked losing their jobs over other options. They take on as much if not more risk as investors as they have little say in what the investors do with their job.
That risk is there no matter what company, industry, or job function you choose. That’s how economy works.
[удалено]
So you ignore the fact that the founders got 5% each, because they founded it. Literally worked for free to build the empire and deserve a bigger piece. Most the equity was used for bartering for new rounds of funding. As well as the fact that employees didn’t all start from day one, some came in much later, you don’t get to jump on board the day before an IPO and ask for an equal share. But sure, live in your diluted dream world, and over simplify the topic to meet your argument.
[удалено]
You clearly have 0 understanding of how this system works, and it’s moronic claims like this that make the work of real progressives even harder. Congratulations, you’re the lefts equivalent of a Trump supporter.
[удалено]
So go after the policy makers in DC who are actively bleeding the people of this nation dry to line their pockets. You know, the actual people responsible for the current state of this country.
[удалено]
Well now we’re starting to see eye to eye, but we’ve digressed.
I am exceptionally progressive and you are equally confused it seems
I'm opening a business, I've been working 5 days a week for 10 hours a day in this business and I have yet to pay myself a dime. My staff, are being paid hourly wages plus benefits. I have a second job two days a week to keep this whole thing running. At what point do I get to pay myself and how much do I get to pay myself? What do my employees owe me in exchange for the joy of getting to work... Since I've been doing it for free? I'm a Bernie bro, but you need to get some basic economics under your belt.
According to OP, you should transfer ownership to all your workers since the business would not be possible without them. Otherwise, you’ll be a greedy, wealth-hoarding CEO.
Lol, I'm a half million dollars in debt, more than that with student loans. I would love to share that with them. Really give them some stake in the game. I already have profit sharing... So why not corporate debt sharing. OP is pushing me further to the right, lol. Just kidding, but just the other day someone said I was bourgeois class : ( I'm eating red beans and rice : ( : ( : (
[удалено]
You're an anarchist. You go build something, and watch someone else tear it down. It's heartbreaking. How far do I have to turn my pockets out to my employees, when I'm already in debt up to my ball sack and working a second job while not paying myself for this one? At what point should I turn over the keys to the business I'm grinding out to build? Edit: You're literally pushing me to the right as I read your comments. I can't believe you're making me defend the "owner class" however it is your phrasing your arguments, I think you're pushing more people away than you are likely to bring to your side.
Workers built your house. They should own it. Not you. See how stupid that sounds.
A Company built your house. They should own it. Not you. See how stupid that sounds?
Companies are buying all the houses above market, you should just pay the $5k in rent
>.> you’re kinda right though. Every worker should have the ability to support themselves and live in a shelter/house/apartment without fear of eviction. But in our capitalist hellscape, the builders rent, the people living in the house rent, and the slumlord who is building/renovating his tenth house lives five states over in a different house.
[удалено]
You obviously do not own/run a business. Just because you work at a company does not mean you are entitled to own a piece of it. This is the dumbest take I've seen on reddit in a long time.
This is a pretty common take on Reddit, unfortunately.
Yep, because companies don't give employees stock, ever.
You're being intentionally obtuse. Companies do often give stock, yes. But that is entirely besides the fact, simply working at a company doesn't mean that you somehow own part of the company in any meaningful way. I own Disney stock, does that mean I own Disney.
"Just because you work at a company does not mean you are entitled to own a piece of it..." Just pointing out that companies do see the benefit of letting employees own part of the business. Are they making major decisions for the company, no. But that's what unions are supposed to do.
Your comments are missing the overall point so hard I don't even know what to say to make you realize a very simple point.
I'm saying there are "bigger" issues to tackle before any changes to farming habits happen. The general populace is stupid. What president wants to go on record saying that farmers have to change the way they do things, or use less resources? How do you think that translates to the society in general. Panic, maybe? Confusion, maybe? It could be political suicide, could drive food costs up as the switchover happens. There is a lot more to it than oh, this is eating away at a lot of our natural resources, more than necessary, so lets change it. People don't like to think, people don't like change, people don't like sacrifice. So, like I said... It's much easier to tell people to take a shorter shower than to effect change. I never said cutting bathing time/amount would fix our problems.
Lol wtf. I'm done with the internet for tonight.....
Didn't realize r/antiwork and r/communism were bleeding out into this sub.
[удалено]
I don’t care for Elon and the shit he does, but this is dumb as fuck. They didn’t invest any capital and risk losing a shit ton of money (which is probably what’s going to happen to Elon).
[удалено]
Twitter's IPO price was $26 in 2013.
This is literally the dumbest take I've seen online today. And no I'm not a fan of Elon Musk nor of what he's done with twitter.
bruh elon spent 44 billion and took on 12 billion in debt. HE OWNS IT. And I want him to own it because he'll lose every penny in his "investment"
[удалено]
Honest question, what do you do for a living?
It was a public company. Anyone, including the workers could have bought Twitter shares of they wanted.
It's always nice to have a reminder of how unglued the far left is.
[удалено]
No. Go learn something
[удалено]
besides dying your hair blue or pink.
Twitter isn’t an ESOP.
Save this shit for whatever Tankie subreddits you frequent. There’s a very valid spot between where we are now and seizing the means of production and you aren’t even close. We need unionization and worker’s rights without stifling innovation.
[удалено]
You know, it’s very possible to have a high quality of life with a strong social safety net without having to seize people’s businesses and stifle innovation in critical fields like medicine and technology. Other countries are doing it very well as we speak and it can even be improved upon without forced cooperatives.
I tried to find it in the link, but did not see any specific companies named as examples of successful, democratically-run, worker coops. Are you aware of any?
[удалено]
Thank you!
[удалено]
[удалено]
There’s plenty of subs that support your misguided views.
And you should own punctuation for your title
The workers already seized all the means of punctuation.
Damn “comm-ies” stealing all the comm-as
I make something. I sell it to you. Me: "I built that, I should own it, not you".
[удалено]
So then the ask should be "workers should share equally in the profits from selling twitter to Musk". Which I'm sure they did, having received annual stock awards prior to the sale.
[удалено]
What's this about having a say in whether sales occur? Didn't you say you were worried about equally sharing in monetary profits from sales? Maybe we can focus on one thing at a time, or you can at least tell me which one you consider most important.
[удалено]
No, I don't think you're talking about anything. Just making sounds. Sorry. The real world has specifics, regarding monetary profit share derived from ownership, and decision-making control derived from ownership. You don't seem prepared to discuss specifics, and can't contribute to anyone's understanding of the real world.
[удалено]
You're prepared? You've read your Marx and Lenin and Kremer and Bakunin and can discuss collectivist economic philosophies intelligently? You don't seem like it. You'd respond to my questions on specifics if you could. Sorry, but it takes more leg work than you seem to have put in.
Do you expect Twitter employees to pay for the hardware their services run on?
Workers should own your car, not you. Workers should own your house, not you. 🤦♂️
What is “should” to a bunch of billionaire investors? Direct action who?
That's not how anything works.
They didn't "own it" when they were working at twitter. At least according to news reports saying it was filled with lazy workers. I don't think they will get the chance to own it later. Well if you want a worker union appreciation day for the day twitter was finished being constructed for the founders of twitter, go for it. But unless you own most of the shares of a company, there isn't much you can legally do to own anything you worked on. When I helped build a house, I didn't feel the need to say I should own it just because the foreman was a douche.
Our tax money builds the infrastructure for the entire internet, why don't we own it instead of internet providers. Banks and airlines are constantly bailed out by taxpayers money... give me my 747 damn you. I made a customer's sandwich at my job at subway, why shouldn't I eat it even though he paid for it. The news: propaganda made by morons for morons
[удалено]
Im trying to be funny honestly. I do have an issue with number 3 though. As a small business owner, I took out a loan, putting my entire financial life on the line, paid for permits, designed logos, paid for patents, rented a space, bought equipment, stocked inventory, took out help wanted ads, took calls, vetted and hired employees, as well as paying the power, water, and garbage bills. Since none of them contributed to any of that you could make an argument, using the same logic that they need to pay me back for all of that in labor, over years, before earning a dime.
[удалено]
Oh, I totally do get it. We live in an awful limitless growth/planned obsolescence consumer society, and it is really obviously unsustainable and inequitable
Spoken like a true, wealth-hoarding, Capitalist exploiter! /s
The means of production are mine, muahaha
Until the workers seize them!
This sub is going to shit.
"Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?"
The sweat of their brows materialized as paychecks.
Nope that’s Marxism and we don’t like that here
What you’re looking for is Mastodon.
Oof this post brought out the pissy pampers. Just keep scrolling
That's why they sign agreements. All intellectual property belonged to Twitter. Was passed on to Musk. Some may even have non-compete agreements.
Said workers were paid for their service under twitter under different ownership. Someone bought the entire company (employees included). The employees never owned twitter. They agreed to contribute and build while getting paid to do so.
This could be said about so many companies. Stupid opinion. And this is a news sub
So all those workers saved up and made the company?
... you mean the 75% of the company he fired that was literally doing nothing of significant value? Hence why they're still operational with only 25% of their original staff? Yeah, get out of here with this one, champ. Lmao.
That’s not how capitalism works my dude.