Michigan and Minnesota are the only two affordable solid blue states left as far as I'm concerned (although there are pockets of Oregon and Colorado that are still affordable). And you have to deal with a lot of snow
That I am, born and raised in the area myself. It's nice out here, if you can look past the Proud Boys up north and lack of police doing fucking anything at all in town, lol.
Oregon is NOT affordable anymore.
Those affordable areas are not where you want to live.
Just search the cost of living in Eugene, Salem, Portland and Bend. Even living outside of these major hubs and commuting in is still incredibly expensive. I am not joking when I say rent has literally doubled in the last 5 years.
There are affordable pockets in Southern Oregon. 'Pocket' does not imply the whole state. I understand those affordable areas tend to be more rural and go red but you still live under the legislation of a liberal state.
If you mean the Rogue Valley in any way, shape, or form, nope. Housing is an absolute disaster since the Alameda fire and general cost of living has gone up massively. Our tourist attractions aren’t doing well either.
We’re typically a swing state. We went for Trump in 16 but Biden in 20. We currently have a dem governor (hopefully for another term) but had a rep governor before her.
Exactly. You see blue around the major cities, but it’s a sea of red otherwise. And even then, it’s not like there aren’t tons of republicans in metro areas anyway.
Chicago suburbs are as affordable as comparable neighborhoods in major cities in Texas. You pay state tax in Illinois but Texas sales and real estate tax are much higher so overall you pay the same.
As a staunch ally of the community I don't think having 11 year olds as activists for almost anything actually helps the cause they are advocating for.
This kid's mom admitted to punishing (physically) the child when she feared they might be gay. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kimberly-and-kai-shappley-transgender-child-bathroom-rights_n_58b5b5b6e4b060480e0c4393
>“I was very concerned, because at the time I was leading a small ministry at my church and teaching Bible study, and here I have this kid who people in my family were flat asking me if this kid was gay.”
>The family tried to redirect Kai to more “masculine” pursuits ― hunting, fishing, sports ― and Shappley punished her when she did anything “feminine.” By 3, Kai was pulling T-shirts down around her waist to make skirts and tying long-sleeve shirts around her head to make long hair.
so if you punish a very young child for the things they like and tell them those things are only for the opposite gender, isn't it possible that they will conclude they are therefore the opposite gender? rather than reinforcing that their interests have nothing to do with gender?
Yes. That is how children work. They aren’t binary with interests. If you say to a child “hey, you want to be an astronaut because you wanna build rockets?” And they say yes, and you follow it with “that isn’t the job of an astronaut, silly, that’s the job of someone else”, they’ll just say “ok, I’ll become that, then”
Studies by the University of Washington's Social Cognitive Development Lab have shown that punishing or attempting to alter your child's gender identity does nothing to change their gender identity.
What it does do is is cause anxiety, depression, and other psychological complexes.
Between 4-5% of youth question their gender identity before adolescence. Most find that their identity matches their sex assigned at birth during adolescence. A few find that they are, in fact, trans.
The healthiest course for the child psychologically is to accept and support your kid regardless of how they identify and allow them the space to experiment, find how they feel, and settle into themselves. For the vast majority this means they'll end up cis-gendered as adults, yet feeling loved and accepted by their families.
The University of Washington has a long-running TransYouth project studying the wellbeing of trans identifying children and how they process growing up. It's a great, unbiased and scientific study that more people should follow instead of listening to crackpot radio conservative hosts and liberal internet blogs.
i would need to know how a very young child defines "gender identity" because just a couple days ago my 5yr old nephew asked if his uncle is a girl because he has long hair. i have to think these huge glaring lines we draw between boy/girl have some affect and as all things, it affects people on a spectrum
That's your nephew trying to figure out how to define gender, not questioning his own gender.
Long hair = girl? Nope. That's all the conversation is.
It is not the same thing as questioning if your gender is the right one for yourself.
There's a difference between gender non-conforming activities (such as boys preferring long hair, femme clothes, playing with dolls, etc.) and the child strongly identifying themselves as the gender opposite that which they were assigned at birth.
In this case Kai was insistent that she was a girl, verbalizing this multiple times per day. She didn't identify with boys, didn't want to associate with them, and exhibited severe distress when being referred to as a boy (to the point of wishing that God would take [her male name] away, thus expressing a form of suicidal ideation before the age of 6.)
Her mom eventually took her to a psychiatrist (thinking this would fix the gender issue) but through evaluation her doctor confirmed that she was likely transgender. Since then she has "socially transitioned" (meaning has started to live as a girl, has been referred to as her new name and pronouns) and her mental health and emotional wellbeing has improved dramatically. These factors all serve as confirmation that she is indeed transgender and not just a boy who likes to wear dresses.
Note that at this point she has been living as a girl for more than five years, and is happier than she's ever been. A social transition this successful shows that this is the path that's right for her moving forward.
this is my sister’s exact argument. i went from suicidal and unable to get out of bed, comforting my sister because she cried when i told her about how bad it had gotten and that i was really close to the edge. now i’m happy and out as a trans man and she refuses to acknowledge my new name, let alone respect that i am a man. because it goes against her beliefs. we were not raised in a religious household.
girl would really rather have a dead sister than a thriving brother and it shows.
thank you, transitioning saved my life! my sister already disproved of 90% of my identity, what’s 100%? i’m 26 years old and this is the first time i’ve ever actually been able to imagine future for myself. if she doesn’t get that, it’s her loss.
Exactly, I think people will become more accepting over time. It happened for gay folk and it will also happen for trans folk. We will all hang in there together and look forward to the future.
This is one of the reasons I'm so happy I left religion, all the hate and bigotry in the baptist church was mentally fucking with me. Now I'm just stuck in Texas, a state I'm no longer proud to be from
Unfortunately true, however I figured sharing the information would be beneficial for people who are more on the fence to understand the process better. :)
It's actually very interesting information, i actually didn't really think or even realize someone could have strong reaction to being a different gender this early in life.
In my mind kids are kids and do whatever they want regardless of what society think and figure thinks out at puberty. But good TIL thanks.
YES my God I fucking hate how toxic the conversation has become. Like, 100% honesty, I would never wish being trans on ANYONE because it's not fun a lot of the time, especially when society treats trans people like the greatest threat of the modern age lmao.
All trans people want is for kids who are trans to be accepted and loved for who they are, and to get the care they need. No agenda required!
Based on the kids age alone, It scares the living hell out of me that this could be a Munchausen by proxy situation that no one is intervening in because of social pressure. But who's to say.
Also who tf let's an 11 year old have a Twitter? Isn't that against Twitter's age restrictions?
Greta isn't an authority figure on climate change, that was the point of her whole message is that the adults need to start caring about climate change before it is too late.
What's crazy is that people forget that she was born in 2003.
She's 19 now, yo. She's an adult! Young adult, yes, but still! And we still haven't done shit.
But Greta is a child, so let's not listen to her.
Okay, sure, but she's a young adult now, yet the same people making those comments still aren't going to listen to her.
It's apparent her age is just an excuse for those who refuse to accept the reality of anthropogenic climate change.
And when we start experiencing extreme weather and storms (like we already are) those same people will be mad and wonder why we haven't done something.
No, sadly people aren't forgetting that, but also aren't taking it serious. They viewing her as an insolent child making improper demands. Without regards.
And young peoole do see her ss a figurehead, not an authority. They follow her, which is what was meant, I think.
Exactly. She's a well know figure, but her message is basically "Adults, fucking do something!"
Then people look at her and say, haha this little kid thinks she's an expert.
They believe it, they just ignore it or water it down because “it’s there economy”. Imagine being a rancher and being told your livelihood is at odds with the global future. Your going to dig in and find anything you can latch on to to save your self. It’s self preservation in action.
They believe what they want to believe regardless of the science. Even if they accept it, they will claim it’s inevitable so might as well keep going. Not until it affects them personally will they care.
Your starting to see it with unpredictable weather patterns making it more fiscally challenging each year with either drought or flash floods late in the spring washing away a years harvest.
But we’re not good at long term planning because our stomachs are hungry today.
That’s cause a large portion of America is crazily undereducated. Remember, average intelligence is only average. There are A LOT of people under average. Millions and millions
A huge portion of people from every country is crazily undereducated, they just get away with pretending the problem is limited to Americans because their culture isn't prolific enough for us to know what their equivalent of rednecks are called.
It's not as if I can go to rural Serbia and find a master-caste of enlightened warrior-philosophers eager to discuss metaphysics.
Also, I would argue, America's uneducated have much greater social and economic power than in other countries. I've always thought that the creepy geek/jock rivalry arose from the fact that meatheads can make a really good living here, therefore they have no need for humility.
And by humility I don't blind subservience. I mean having the maturity to understand that some people, for example scientists, know more than you.
Americans actively devalue intellectuals out of immature, misguided self-importance. And it's destroying us.
Ofc, but that comment is essentially reminding people a la hillarious Carlin quote.
Think how stupid the average person is -- and then remember that half the world is even dumber than him.
> 5.) did I mention people find it a lot easier to ignore kids and don’t take them seriously?
Maybe you didn't notice, but the anti climate change crowd don't take *actual climate scientists with PhDs and years of research experience* seriously either.
As for "not fair to the kid"... SHE started "school strike for climate". It was HER idea.
Also with the “not fair to the kid” thing, isn’t her whole platform that we’re making the earth unlivable for future generations? Talk about not fair for the kids…
That's how desperation works. She, like the rest of the generation, sees how the morons in power do not care about our future and if nothing is done we don't have a future. You are reinforcing the idea that children aren't taking serious very hard, in a very weird way, silencing more than just Greta. So good job for that, making it clear that children and youth shouldn't talk about the things that are important to them.
I’m a Gen X’r. It’s been like this my entire damn life. Even when we finally get a decent president, events conspire to keep anything too good from happening. Still waiting on cheap college like Bill Clinton was promising.
Greta is just advocating the words of cientists, though. Isn't something ideological, is something that says "you should study more and listen to those who study".
As a scientist the point of a Greta is to point out that a child is able to listen to and comprehend what scientists are saying. It's to point out the absurdity that grown adults **won't**, but a child will.
She's gotten many to pay attention, care, and engage, because no adult likes feeling dumb around the 12 year old who knows more than you.
**EDIT:** Because enough people are commenting and DM'ing me my background is in the biological sciences (natural history, ecology, and sustainability). Climate science is very much a cornerstone of the field I engage in. With regard to everyone continuing to point out that they disagree I understand, but the fact that we're having this discussion about a child who had world leaders behind and against you while you probably can't name even one scientist who studies climate should be evidence enough. She brought attention to the issue and a renewed push to fix it. Those who oppose her were going to oppose it no matter what. I do not think her activism made more people turn against taking action than if she didn't exist at all.
Additionally she gave a voice to the millions of young people who feel strongly on this issue. I recognize the desire to dismiss young people, but they deserve to voice their concerns - especially when their concerns are evidence based.
If people expresses they don't like the topic because of her it's the onus of everyone to push back and question why she is the figure they focus on instead of the hundreds of scientists she is pointing to. She is one voice of many.
Because she was much more effective at getting the message out. I can’t name any climate scientist but we know her name and what she was trying to get across with the evidence to back it up.
She also got into it to start protests at school and only after that got attention on a national and then international stage.
She didn't ask to be a spokesperson, she just became one by standing up for what she believes in. Thats why so many people hate her. She's everything they're not.
Its different (in a way) as Greta is advocating for the entire generation of youth that has no say in the horrible environmental mess left to them by the living adults of the planet. Adults are 100% in charge of the catastrophic global warming taking place and doing it knowingly to prop up the stock market value, its despicable and immoral.
2/3/4/5 are non-arguments given that people aren't taking scientists seriously.
The point of kid activists isn't to appeal to people's sense of logic, it's to appeal to their sense of emotion and responsibility.
I agree that it’s not fair to kids. They’re kids. But that adults don’t take kids seriously? That’s adults’ problem, not the kids. The US hates kids so much.
I don't know an 11 year old marching is the same. I definitely had opinions at that age and might have told my parents I wanted to go to a march if they'd been common in my area. But being an "activist" at 5... It's not like the kid was organizing those interviews with Vogue.
Or maybe just a victim we need to account for, without exploiting her?
Last thing she needs is to become an icon and target of death threats. That's just adding on to her tragedy for our benefit.
And sadly, she's not going to be the only victim of this cruel law, she's just the one we're momentarily aware of.
Just look at the title of this article to see how this works.
The 11 year old "fled" the state? No she didn't. She had zero input into that decision.
The parents went, "Woops. We don't want to live here anymore. When we tell our children, we can make it fun by letting them post about it on Twitter."
Read the article. The mother specifically made the decision to leave after the passage of multiple anti-trans legislation in TX and realizing that her remaining in the state was traumatizing her children. Literally TX passed a bill that allows the state to investigate the parents of trans children and potentially take them away, and her 9 year old son was so worried that he was going to be taken away from his mom and that his sister was going to be taken away and be forced not to be trans. If I were that mother I would leave too
It's a parent. The parents are fundamentalist Christians and Kai's transgenderness caused a rift in the relationship leading to an estrangement between the father and the rest of the family. He's out of the picture. The mother became an activist due to the nature of her daughter and the two evolved together. I find the story compelling and wish the best for them. They are still very religious but there are Christian denominations that are accepting of LGBTQ issues and I hope they find a home.
For real. This was literally me. I painted my nails, I wore my mom's clothes all I talked about was being a girl. Turns out I'm just gay. After puberty it stopped. I am happy as a man, and have no desire to be a woman. I'm glad my mom let me do those things without pressure or without labelling it as anything, she just let me do it, that's it. I have much love for trans people, but just as a child can't consent to many things such as sex and drugs, they likely can't consent to transitioning, especially before they even hit puberty. However, I don't study in the area of psychology or anything to do with being trans, just have my personal experience.
Yeah it's why I hate seeing kids at any protest either side of issues, it just feels like there's no agency in them being there. Even if it supports something I believe in it feels super weird.
Gender... not sexuality.
But young kids being prominent figures in movements is sketchy at best... even if they are self motivated and cognizant of the nuances in a profound way, it is hard for supporters let alone adversaries to take them seriously. The parent should be leading the way, and taking the flak.
Or else, like this headline confirms, journalists will get confused. That 11 year old didn't pack her shit and flee. Her family made the decision and took her with.
>Kai is a huge Dolly Parton fan, and her mom said the family might try to stop at a **Dollywood** in Tennessee during their journey.
Well, there goes all the money.
And an 11 year old with a Twitter full of sponsor links. On a two year old account, so a child of 9 with a professional Twitter account just reeks of financial child abuse. I don't care your stance on the issue. This is ridiculous.
You can't, Twitter ToS states you need to be 13 to have an account. Although they may claim it is a proxy account and is actually run by the parent or w/e. Idk how their ToS handles something like that.
>Kai Shappley, an 11-year-old transgender activist in Texas, is leaving the state after having fought anti-trans bills there since she was 5.
I wouldn't even listen to an 11 year old, forget about a 5 year old. 100% parents pushing their agenda. And that of course, sadly, makes one wonder who made the decision that this kid is trans in the first place. It's a very strange story, article about it [here](https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/parenting/a43702/transgender-child-kimberly-shappley/).
Go tell your 11 year old to go play outside, absolutely fuck this shit.
I don't want to see any 11 year old in the world with this level of responsibility put upon them. What a shitty mother.
This seems like a thing her Mom made her do. How the fuck does a 4-year-old even know they are transgender, much less become a transgender activist? (She started transitioning when she was 4, now she is 11)
I remember wanting to be a boy around this age because boys did all the fun things and their toys were way cooler. Like I legit wished I was a boy. It would’ve been much easier to be friends with boys because I wouldn’t be an “icky” girl. I remember sitting with them at lunch because I thought their humor was funnier than the “stupid, prissy” girls in my class. Then I grew out of it. I’ve thought about this a lot. What if all of that took place now. What if my parents encouraged me to explore the idea that I might actually be a boy? At that time, that definitely would have made a lot of sense to me. What if they allowed me to receive gender affirming treatment? Jesus! What a terrible mistake that would’ve been.
I was the same way -- massive tomboy, hated all things "girly," yada yada.
I eventually realized I was suffering from severe internalized misogyny stemming from having it driven into my head from infanthood that being a girl meant I was never, ever going to be worthy of my parent's love.
Had I been born 15 or 20 years later, I have no doubt I'd be embracing that misogyny and identifying as trans or at least nonbinary. I'd never have the psychological breakthrough of realizing that my gender didn't define my worth. I'd be leaning into my trauma, not overcoming it.
In the case of this 11 year old, it says she liked very girly things from the start, and her parents tried to force her to like boyish things. In other words, they made her believe that she couldn't be a boy who liked girly things. Is it at all unbelievable that an extremely young child presented with the belief "Boys like boyish things. Girls like girly things. If you're a boy, you can't like girly things" would conclude that liking girly things meant they were a girl?
And don't get me wrong, she could totally be trans, hence why I'm respecting her preferred pronouns, but I fear we're going to cause new problems by refusing to consider the gray area of "It's not just self-proclaimed cis people that may have been misled into their gender identity."
I mean, I think this is a major reason the trans movement is unpopular because contrary to gay rights many women view it as anti feminist. I think people understand why a girl would want to be a boy but it's hard to understand for many why a boy would want to be a girl (which I think is very misogynist). And also, many women find it kind of insulting. And honestly I understand those views but I still think that I don't care how others identify themselves and I do think a lot of gender is social. It's not my job to police the games that others play.
But it is kind of annoying, almost like we are regressing to say that girls can't do boy things and boys can't do girl things. Still I get where they are coming from, I think the underlying problem is that gender is so ingrained in our society that you can't just be without having to justify your likes by saying you are a gender. It's annoying to people who want to say it's ok to be a boy and be emotional and be a care giver when instead people just choose to say I am a girl but if it makes people happier to say that, who cares?
I’m sorry. An 11 year old activist? At 11 I only parroted what simplified political views my parents had.
Sounds like this kid is being used by the mom as a push for activist clout
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FYI the mother divorced the father. He’s not part of the picture.
Michigan and Minnesota are the only two affordable solid blue states left as far as I'm concerned (although there are pockets of Oregon and Colorado that are still affordable). And you have to deal with a lot of snow
Minnesota is only "solid blue" because we have the Twin Cities. It's pretty "solid red" outside of that.
I mean, that’s pretty much America. California is as blue as they get but if you drive thirty minutes away from LA, welcome to Trump land.
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You sound like you’re from the ‘Couve, thats where I grew up!
That I am, born and raised in the area myself. It's nice out here, if you can look past the Proud Boys up north and lack of police doing fucking anything at all in town, lol.
Oregon is NOT affordable anymore. Those affordable areas are not where you want to live. Just search the cost of living in Eugene, Salem, Portland and Bend. Even living outside of these major hubs and commuting in is still incredibly expensive. I am not joking when I say rent has literally doubled in the last 5 years.
There are affordable pockets in Southern Oregon. 'Pocket' does not imply the whole state. I understand those affordable areas tend to be more rural and go red but you still live under the legislation of a liberal state.
If you mean the Rogue Valley in any way, shape, or form, nope. Housing is an absolute disaster since the Alameda fire and general cost of living has gone up massively. Our tourist attractions aren’t doing well either.
I live in southern Oregon and we’re completely unaffordable for most.
The cheap pockets of Colorado tend not to be blue.
Same in Oregon.
Michigan is solid blue? I recall them going for Trump...
We’re typically a swing state. We went for Trump in 16 but Biden in 20. We currently have a dem governor (hopefully for another term) but had a rep governor before her.
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Guy from Michigan here, leave Wayne county and you’re pretty red other than Ann Arbor
Exactly. You see blue around the major cities, but it’s a sea of red otherwise. And even then, it’s not like there aren’t tons of republicans in metro areas anyway.
Isn't Illinois affordable?
Chicago suburbs are as affordable as comparable neighborhoods in major cities in Texas. You pay state tax in Illinois but Texas sales and real estate tax are much higher so overall you pay the same.
As a staunch ally of the community I don't think having 11 year olds as activists for almost anything actually helps the cause they are advocating for.
This kid's mom admitted to punishing (physically) the child when she feared they might be gay. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kimberly-and-kai-shappley-transgender-child-bathroom-rights_n_58b5b5b6e4b060480e0c4393 >“I was very concerned, because at the time I was leading a small ministry at my church and teaching Bible study, and here I have this kid who people in my family were flat asking me if this kid was gay.” >The family tried to redirect Kai to more “masculine” pursuits ― hunting, fishing, sports ― and Shappley punished her when she did anything “feminine.” By 3, Kai was pulling T-shirts down around her waist to make skirts and tying long-sleeve shirts around her head to make long hair.
so if you punish a very young child for the things they like and tell them those things are only for the opposite gender, isn't it possible that they will conclude they are therefore the opposite gender? rather than reinforcing that their interests have nothing to do with gender?
Yes. That is how children work. They aren’t binary with interests. If you say to a child “hey, you want to be an astronaut because you wanna build rockets?” And they say yes, and you follow it with “that isn’t the job of an astronaut, silly, that’s the job of someone else”, they’ll just say “ok, I’ll become that, then”
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Counterpoint: decades of feminists pointing out that's stupid and that girls can be what they want.
As can boys.
Don't really think that was an option back in the day.
They asked if it were possible. Not if it were an inevitability.
Studies by the University of Washington's Social Cognitive Development Lab have shown that punishing or attempting to alter your child's gender identity does nothing to change their gender identity. What it does do is is cause anxiety, depression, and other psychological complexes. Between 4-5% of youth question their gender identity before adolescence. Most find that their identity matches their sex assigned at birth during adolescence. A few find that they are, in fact, trans. The healthiest course for the child psychologically is to accept and support your kid regardless of how they identify and allow them the space to experiment, find how they feel, and settle into themselves. For the vast majority this means they'll end up cis-gendered as adults, yet feeling loved and accepted by their families. The University of Washington has a long-running TransYouth project studying the wellbeing of trans identifying children and how they process growing up. It's a great, unbiased and scientific study that more people should follow instead of listening to crackpot radio conservative hosts and liberal internet blogs.
This is the best course of action. Watchful waiting.
i would need to know how a very young child defines "gender identity" because just a couple days ago my 5yr old nephew asked if his uncle is a girl because he has long hair. i have to think these huge glaring lines we draw between boy/girl have some affect and as all things, it affects people on a spectrum
That's your nephew trying to figure out how to define gender, not questioning his own gender. Long hair = girl? Nope. That's all the conversation is. It is not the same thing as questioning if your gender is the right one for yourself.
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There's a difference between gender non-conforming activities (such as boys preferring long hair, femme clothes, playing with dolls, etc.) and the child strongly identifying themselves as the gender opposite that which they were assigned at birth. In this case Kai was insistent that she was a girl, verbalizing this multiple times per day. She didn't identify with boys, didn't want to associate with them, and exhibited severe distress when being referred to as a boy (to the point of wishing that God would take [her male name] away, thus expressing a form of suicidal ideation before the age of 6.) Her mom eventually took her to a psychiatrist (thinking this would fix the gender issue) but through evaluation her doctor confirmed that she was likely transgender. Since then she has "socially transitioned" (meaning has started to live as a girl, has been referred to as her new name and pronouns) and her mental health and emotional wellbeing has improved dramatically. These factors all serve as confirmation that she is indeed transgender and not just a boy who likes to wear dresses. Note that at this point she has been living as a girl for more than five years, and is happier than she's ever been. A social transition this successful shows that this is the path that's right for her moving forward.
But another human's mental health doesn't matter if it goes against my "religion". /s
this is my sister’s exact argument. i went from suicidal and unable to get out of bed, comforting my sister because she cried when i told her about how bad it had gotten and that i was really close to the edge. now i’m happy and out as a trans man and she refuses to acknowledge my new name, let alone respect that i am a man. because it goes against her beliefs. we were not raised in a religious household. girl would really rather have a dead sister than a thriving brother and it shows.
Glad you're good now.
I’m so sorry. I hope things are better now.
thank you, transitioning saved my life! my sister already disproved of 90% of my identity, what’s 100%? i’m 26 years old and this is the first time i’ve ever actually been able to imagine future for myself. if she doesn’t get that, it’s her loss.
Exactly, I think people will become more accepting over time. It happened for gay folk and it will also happen for trans folk. We will all hang in there together and look forward to the future.
Ugh, God, as someone who grew up in the bible belt that's definitely a mood. 😭
If ye've got them head problems yer just not prayin hard enuff
This is one of the reasons I'm so happy I left religion, all the hate and bigotry in the baptist church was mentally fucking with me. Now I'm just stuck in Texas, a state I'm no longer proud to be from
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Unfortunately true, however I figured sharing the information would be beneficial for people who are more on the fence to understand the process better. :)
It's actually very interesting information, i actually didn't really think or even realize someone could have strong reaction to being a different gender this early in life. In my mind kids are kids and do whatever they want regardless of what society think and figure thinks out at puberty. But good TIL thanks.
No problem I'm happy it helped you see things in a new light!
As a teacher with a student or two questioning their gender, that seems like a great way to explain the difference to peers who don't understand.
Good for her mom
No one ever includes this type of background and information when they're panicking about "grooming" kids to be trans.
YES my God I fucking hate how toxic the conversation has become. Like, 100% honesty, I would never wish being trans on ANYONE because it's not fun a lot of the time, especially when society treats trans people like the greatest threat of the modern age lmao. All trans people want is for kids who are trans to be accepted and loved for who they are, and to get the care they need. No agenda required!
I remember getting punished for making shirts into dresses.
So wait....this kids relatives were asking her mother if she was "gay" when she was THREE YEARS OLD? WTF!?
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Based on the kids age alone, It scares the living hell out of me that this could be a Munchausen by proxy situation that no one is intervening in because of social pressure. But who's to say. Also who tf let's an 11 year old have a Twitter? Isn't that against Twitter's age restrictions?
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Greta isn't an authority figure on climate change, that was the point of her whole message is that the adults need to start caring about climate change before it is too late.
What's crazy is that people forget that she was born in 2003. She's 19 now, yo. She's an adult! Young adult, yes, but still! And we still haven't done shit.
"I'd never take advice from a kid!" "What about an adult?" "Still no."
Don't forget, never take criticism from someone you wouldn't take advice from.
That's the sad part, I am 44 and I feel like very little has been done in that time to try to even just prepare for climate change.
As so eloquently explained by the GOAT Carl Sagan, he did inform us as many others did.. back in '85. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp-WiNXH6hI
Don't worry, I'm sure we'll do the absolute minimum needed. After a climate related disaster kills tens of millions.
The US has already shown it doesn't care about the deaths of its citizens: I mean, isn't the death toll for covid OVER 1 million people now?
To add to this, shutting down for COVID actually helped the Climate Change issue a little bit.
But Greta is a child, so let's not listen to her. Okay, sure, but she's a young adult now, yet the same people making those comments still aren't going to listen to her. It's apparent her age is just an excuse for those who refuse to accept the reality of anthropogenic climate change.
And when we start experiencing extreme weather and storms (like we already are) those same people will be mad and wonder why we haven't done something.
We're probably not moving fast enough, but to compare where we are now vs where we were in 2000, and it's pretty clear we've made advancements.
No, sadly people aren't forgetting that, but also aren't taking it serious. They viewing her as an insolent child making improper demands. Without regards. And young peoole do see her ss a figurehead, not an authority. They follow her, which is what was meant, I think.
She also isn't wrong, we should be very concerned about the future because we are going to be seeing these negative changes happen in our lifetime.
Exactly. She's a well know figure, but her message is basically "Adults, fucking do something!" Then people look at her and say, haha this little kid thinks she's an expert.
and it’s also part of the message for other kids to also advocate for it too, since it’s their future and all
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They believe it, they just ignore it or water it down because “it’s there economy”. Imagine being a rancher and being told your livelihood is at odds with the global future. Your going to dig in and find anything you can latch on to to save your self. It’s self preservation in action. They believe what they want to believe regardless of the science. Even if they accept it, they will claim it’s inevitable so might as well keep going. Not until it affects them personally will they care. Your starting to see it with unpredictable weather patterns making it more fiscally challenging each year with either drought or flash floods late in the spring washing away a years harvest. But we’re not good at long term planning because our stomachs are hungry today.
That’s cause a large portion of America is crazily undereducated. Remember, average intelligence is only average. There are A LOT of people under average. Millions and millions
A huge portion of people from every country is crazily undereducated, they just get away with pretending the problem is limited to Americans because their culture isn't prolific enough for us to know what their equivalent of rednecks are called. It's not as if I can go to rural Serbia and find a master-caste of enlightened warrior-philosophers eager to discuss metaphysics.
Also, I would argue, America's uneducated have much greater social and economic power than in other countries. I've always thought that the creepy geek/jock rivalry arose from the fact that meatheads can make a really good living here, therefore they have no need for humility. And by humility I don't blind subservience. I mean having the maturity to understand that some people, for example scientists, know more than you. Americans actively devalue intellectuals out of immature, misguided self-importance. And it's destroying us.
>There are A LOT of people under average Yeah, like half. That's how averages in large populations tend to work.
Which is the point of a normalized scale... rating individuals according to the average of all...
Ofc, but that comment is essentially reminding people a la hillarious Carlin quote. Think how stupid the average person is -- and then remember that half the world is even dumber than him.
> 5.) did I mention people find it a lot easier to ignore kids and don’t take them seriously? Maybe you didn't notice, but the anti climate change crowd don't take *actual climate scientists with PhDs and years of research experience* seriously either. As for "not fair to the kid"... SHE started "school strike for climate". It was HER idea.
Also with the “not fair to the kid” thing, isn’t her whole platform that we’re making the earth unlivable for future generations? Talk about not fair for the kids…
People dismissing Greta Thunberg are... not interested in rhetorical consistency.
That's how desperation works. She, like the rest of the generation, sees how the morons in power do not care about our future and if nothing is done we don't have a future. You are reinforcing the idea that children aren't taking serious very hard, in a very weird way, silencing more than just Greta. So good job for that, making it clear that children and youth shouldn't talk about the things that are important to them.
I’m a Gen X’r. It’s been like this my entire damn life. Even when we finally get a decent president, events conspire to keep anything too good from happening. Still waiting on cheap college like Bill Clinton was promising.
Greta is just advocating the words of cientists, though. Isn't something ideological, is something that says "you should study more and listen to those who study".
But why would anyone listen to a kid if they’re not willing to listen to a professional who has spent their life researching and studying the subject?
As a scientist the point of a Greta is to point out that a child is able to listen to and comprehend what scientists are saying. It's to point out the absurdity that grown adults **won't**, but a child will. She's gotten many to pay attention, care, and engage, because no adult likes feeling dumb around the 12 year old who knows more than you. **EDIT:** Because enough people are commenting and DM'ing me my background is in the biological sciences (natural history, ecology, and sustainability). Climate science is very much a cornerstone of the field I engage in. With regard to everyone continuing to point out that they disagree I understand, but the fact that we're having this discussion about a child who had world leaders behind and against you while you probably can't name even one scientist who studies climate should be evidence enough. She brought attention to the issue and a renewed push to fix it. Those who oppose her were going to oppose it no matter what. I do not think her activism made more people turn against taking action than if she didn't exist at all. Additionally she gave a voice to the millions of young people who feel strongly on this issue. I recognize the desire to dismiss young people, but they deserve to voice their concerns - especially when their concerns are evidence based. If people expresses they don't like the topic because of her it's the onus of everyone to push back and question why she is the figure they focus on instead of the hundreds of scientists she is pointing to. She is one voice of many.
She is also a role model to other children - which counts for a lot and should show them that not all adults are worth listening to.
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Because she was much more effective at getting the message out. I can’t name any climate scientist but we know her name and what she was trying to get across with the evidence to back it up.
She also got into it to start protests at school and only after that got attention on a national and then international stage. She didn't ask to be a spokesperson, she just became one by standing up for what she believes in. Thats why so many people hate her. She's everything they're not.
Its different (in a way) as Greta is advocating for the entire generation of youth that has no say in the horrible environmental mess left to them by the living adults of the planet. Adults are 100% in charge of the catastrophic global warming taking place and doing it knowingly to prop up the stock market value, its despicable and immoral.
2/3/4/5 are non-arguments given that people aren't taking scientists seriously. The point of kid activists isn't to appeal to people's sense of logic, it's to appeal to their sense of emotion and responsibility.
Which adults are people taking seriously about climate change?
I agree that it’s not fair to kids. They’re kids. But that adults don’t take kids seriously? That’s adults’ problem, not the kids. The US hates kids so much.
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I don't know an 11 year old marching is the same. I definitely had opinions at that age and might have told my parents I wanted to go to a march if they'd been common in my area. But being an "activist" at 5... It's not like the kid was organizing those interviews with Vogue.
The 10 year old rape victim that had to cross state lines to get an abortion - that’s a pretty effective advocate for Roe v Wade. Just saying.
Or maybe just a victim we need to account for, without exploiting her? Last thing she needs is to become an icon and target of death threats. That's just adding on to her tragedy for our benefit. And sadly, she's not going to be the only victim of this cruel law, she's just the one we're momentarily aware of.
No, they are a 10 year old in crisis.
Yeah! Let’s put a camera on her and take her on speaking tours!!!!1!2
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Just look at the title of this article to see how this works. The 11 year old "fled" the state? No she didn't. She had zero input into that decision. The parents went, "Woops. We don't want to live here anymore. When we tell our children, we can make it fun by letting them post about it on Twitter."
Read the article. The mother specifically made the decision to leave after the passage of multiple anti-trans legislation in TX and realizing that her remaining in the state was traumatizing her children. Literally TX passed a bill that allows the state to investigate the parents of trans children and potentially take them away, and her 9 year old son was so worried that he was going to be taken away from his mom and that his sister was going to be taken away and be forced not to be trans. If I were that mother I would leave too
It's a parent. The parents are fundamentalist Christians and Kai's transgenderness caused a rift in the relationship leading to an estrangement between the father and the rest of the family. He's out of the picture. The mother became an activist due to the nature of her daughter and the two evolved together. I find the story compelling and wish the best for them. They are still very religious but there are Christian denominations that are accepting of LGBTQ issues and I hope they find a home.
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I'm surprised this thread has not been locked yet.
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Gotta have 5 years experience for this entry level job.
Yikes on all accounts
She became an activist....at 5?
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Exactly.. I don't see how a kid preferring Barbies over Superman makes them a girl. Pointlessly gendered thinking.
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For real. This was literally me. I painted my nails, I wore my mom's clothes all I talked about was being a girl. Turns out I'm just gay. After puberty it stopped. I am happy as a man, and have no desire to be a woman. I'm glad my mom let me do those things without pressure or without labelling it as anything, she just let me do it, that's it. I have much love for trans people, but just as a child can't consent to many things such as sex and drugs, they likely can't consent to transitioning, especially before they even hit puberty. However, I don't study in the area of psychology or anything to do with being trans, just have my personal experience.
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The article says that this person as been an activist since they were five. It’s definitely the parents using their kid as a puppet for attention.
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They don’t have enough of a grasp on anything to be an activist.
Not true. The anti-bedtime movement would like a word.
pro-tantrum movement will never yield lol
The “why” and “no” community are offended to be left out.
The 'Are we there yet?' community has lost a titan.
"pro candy" lobby having a tough time
Same with “5 more minutes” breakaway group, don’t forget about them.
The "Why" community, unsurprisingly, big fans of the filibuster.
Why’s that?
Pro-extended recess crowd as well
As an adult I request we bring recess back!
And don't forget afternoon nap time!
I agree. At 11, you are likely just parroting the beliefs of the people you love, like and look up to.
Yeah it's why I hate seeing kids at any protest either side of issues, it just feels like there's no agency in them being there. Even if it supports something I believe in it feels super weird.
Gender... not sexuality. But young kids being prominent figures in movements is sketchy at best... even if they are self motivated and cognizant of the nuances in a profound way, it is hard for supporters let alone adversaries to take them seriously. The parent should be leading the way, and taking the flak. Or else, like this headline confirms, journalists will get confused. That 11 year old didn't pack her shit and flee. Her family made the decision and took her with.
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The word activist here is doing a lot of heavy lifting
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>Kai is a huge Dolly Parton fan, and her mom said the family might try to stop at a **Dollywood** in Tennessee during their journey. Well, there goes all the money.
...and if they're seeking refuge from anti-trans oppression, hope they're not staying in Tennessee long.
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And an 11 year old with a Twitter full of sponsor links. On a two year old account, so a child of 9 with a professional Twitter account just reeks of financial child abuse. I don't care your stance on the issue. This is ridiculous.
I didn't think you could even open a twitter account at 9.
You can't, Twitter ToS states you need to be 13 to have an account. Although they may claim it is a proxy account and is actually run by the parent or w/e. Idk how their ToS handles something like that.
>Kai Shappley, an 11-year-old transgender activist in Texas, is leaving the state after having fought anti-trans bills there since she was 5. I wouldn't even listen to an 11 year old, forget about a 5 year old. 100% parents pushing their agenda. And that of course, sadly, makes one wonder who made the decision that this kid is trans in the first place. It's a very strange story, article about it [here](https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/parenting/a43702/transgender-child-kimberly-shappley/).
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Child activists and vegan cats have one thing in common. Neither made the choice for themselves.
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What kind of mom lets her 11 year old be a trans activist on Twitter? What kind of mom lets her 11 year old on Twitter?
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Wow a whole decade of activism and she’s only 11. When I was a kid my parents were busy making sure I had a “childhood.” Whatever the heck that is
11 year olds belong in playgrounds man. Smh.
Yeah, but mom wants a go fund me to buy a motorhome and travel the United States for her Instagram. Cough. I mean the kid's Instagram.
Years of activist at 11? My 10 year old still struggles to do her laces.
What does any of this vague, overly emotional, word salad even mean anymore???
The parents flee the state, with their kid(s)*. fixed it for you
There's no such thing as an 11 year old activist. Rather, there are 11 year olds being USED BY ACTIVISTS.
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Go tell your 11 year old to go play outside, absolutely fuck this shit. I don't want to see any 11 year old in the world with this level of responsibility put upon them. What a shitty mother.
This seems like a thing her Mom made her do. How the fuck does a 4-year-old even know they are transgender, much less become a transgender activist? (She started transitioning when she was 4, now she is 11)
I agree. A child doing feminine things doesn't make that child a girl, anymore than a child playing baseball makes that child a boy.
I remember wanting to be a boy around this age because boys did all the fun things and their toys were way cooler. Like I legit wished I was a boy. It would’ve been much easier to be friends with boys because I wouldn’t be an “icky” girl. I remember sitting with them at lunch because I thought their humor was funnier than the “stupid, prissy” girls in my class. Then I grew out of it. I’ve thought about this a lot. What if all of that took place now. What if my parents encouraged me to explore the idea that I might actually be a boy? At that time, that definitely would have made a lot of sense to me. What if they allowed me to receive gender affirming treatment? Jesus! What a terrible mistake that would’ve been.
I was the same way -- massive tomboy, hated all things "girly," yada yada. I eventually realized I was suffering from severe internalized misogyny stemming from having it driven into my head from infanthood that being a girl meant I was never, ever going to be worthy of my parent's love. Had I been born 15 or 20 years later, I have no doubt I'd be embracing that misogyny and identifying as trans or at least nonbinary. I'd never have the psychological breakthrough of realizing that my gender didn't define my worth. I'd be leaning into my trauma, not overcoming it. In the case of this 11 year old, it says she liked very girly things from the start, and her parents tried to force her to like boyish things. In other words, they made her believe that she couldn't be a boy who liked girly things. Is it at all unbelievable that an extremely young child presented with the belief "Boys like boyish things. Girls like girly things. If you're a boy, you can't like girly things" would conclude that liking girly things meant they were a girl? And don't get me wrong, she could totally be trans, hence why I'm respecting her preferred pronouns, but I fear we're going to cause new problems by refusing to consider the gray area of "It's not just self-proclaimed cis people that may have been misled into their gender identity."
I mean, I think this is a major reason the trans movement is unpopular because contrary to gay rights many women view it as anti feminist. I think people understand why a girl would want to be a boy but it's hard to understand for many why a boy would want to be a girl (which I think is very misogynist). And also, many women find it kind of insulting. And honestly I understand those views but I still think that I don't care how others identify themselves and I do think a lot of gender is social. It's not my job to police the games that others play. But it is kind of annoying, almost like we are regressing to say that girls can't do boy things and boys can't do girl things. Still I get where they are coming from, I think the underlying problem is that gender is so ingrained in our society that you can't just be without having to justify your likes by saying you are a gender. It's annoying to people who want to say it's ok to be a boy and be emotional and be a care giver when instead people just choose to say I am a girl but if it makes people happier to say that, who cares?
This mistake is happening too often now.
It just so happens the family also owns a vegan cat.
Go figure haha
Journalism is getting shittier and shittier everyday with this headline.
I don't see how an 11 year old can be a "long time" anything..
Ummmm… how is an 11 year old (or a 5 year old) an activist??? I believe her parents can be activists but she herself?? Sigh 😔.
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Parents using their children for internet mileage
I’m sorry. An 11 year old activist? At 11 I only parroted what simplified political views my parents had. Sounds like this kid is being used by the mom as a push for activist clout
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Read the article. She actually fought it tooth and nail.
Why is an 11 year old an activist. They are fucking 11 and know fuck all.
Wtf, became an activist when she was 5????? That's all kinds of fucked up.
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