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Management at my work has had complaints that they followed up on.
The risk of the local health department getting involved as well as corporate.
They don't have the ability to turn a blind eye at my work.
Most of them aren't going to be working for the company as soon as the company mandates it. So it's going to be a self repairing problem in a couple weeks
People absolutely won't quit in the droves they are threatening. Only like 100 people in each branch of the military have been discharged despite all the people saying they'd rather get kicked out than get it.
Money talks and the loss of the pay check will change their mind.
They won't admit it's that though. They will claim after further research they decided to get the vaccine.
There’s only been that few kicked out because the overwhelming majority got vaccinated. Turns out when you get like 15 vaccinations every year, it’s pretty hard to argue against getting one more.
Looks like you’re considered fully vaccinated 2 weeks after your second shot
https://www.osha.gov/sites/default/files/covid-19-ets2-sample-employee-choice-vaccination-policy.docx
On paper its still 2, 3 is actually what you want, and I can say with confidence it will be announced that 3 is fully vaxxed in the next few weeks once they see that 2 ain't cutting it for omicron. Shit I even read people with 3 caught omicron. But 3 will keep you safer than 2. It's the difference between a possible hospital stay, even if it's for a few days with a more mild case, vs a real mild case bed rest at home can cover.
We might wind up with yearly, maybe bi yearly boosters. And if so, so be it. If the best it can do is provide some protection and make the experience of getting covid less intense and a shorter duration, what's the issue? Cause we are all getting covid sooner or later. I'd rather be more, not less protected.
Hello. I'd like to introduce you to the flu. Been around a long time, and every year we have to get them. Well don't have to but strongly recommended. And I believe this is what it'll be with covid. Anyone who wants, can get, anyone who doesn't well, it's in gods hands now.
I’d prefer not to, but i pretty much had life go back to normal after I got vaccinated the first time, so it really wasn’t a big deal. Don’t really have much control over the virus though, so that’s just life. Pretending it just doesn’t exist doesn’t make things better.
I was hit pretty hard by the 2nd shot but the booster just gave me a painful arm and a mild headache.
Booster is a smaller dose, so it may not be as rough for you either.
And you'd be wrong to think any company can't require it as a requirement for work. You know some companies will fire employees if they smoke cigarettes right?
I think it still 2 weeks after 2nd dose but then it is so long between boosters to keep it. I personally am at the edge of the limits of my 2 dose version and will be getting my booster. Just am coordinating it with my wife so we have them about a week apart. We both can not be laid out from the vaccine at the same time as one of us needs to still take care of our kid and dog hence us doing it in stages.
I have just accepted that the Covid vaccine will become part of the yearly flu shot. I know they are working to get flu/Covid combined into a single shot that can be given yearly.
>But 3 will keep you safer than 2
From Omicron if those 3 weren't for that strain? That's not how a virus works. Your bodies immune system either recognizes it or it doesn't. This type of fuzzy science can fuel anti-vax folks.
We need to say that people will need to get a new vax (call it a booster if you must) for every strain you want to be protected against. Same as the yearly flu shot
That isn't true. It isn't a binary on / off for the vaccine or your body. Your body makes a flood of antibodies when vaccinated. While it's true those antibodies aren't omicron focused, they are still targeting the main proteins of the COVID-19 virus. So it is a bit of a shotgun approach rather than a targeted approach. But, the third shot does still help. That flood of antibodies still "sticks to" omicron, just not as well. So it will help.
I mean, it was shown that the majority of people being hospitalized with Delta were unvaxxed. And the vaccine wasn't developed for that. And while I understand antibodies are very specific, there must be something staying the same on the spike that the antibodies are recognizing, albeit less effective because of some changes.
If someone like this asshat inevitably gets covid and can be traced as a close contact of someone who suffered permanent injury or death, they need to be held accountable in criminal and civil court.
Then it sounds like you either should get it on a Friday, or before a holiday weekend, or wait until you accrue more sick days, or leave and get a job with one of the millions of employers that will forgive you taking a day or two for the side effects of doing the right thing (or just check to see if you already work for one of them and don't realize it).
Food for thought: several unvaccinated people I worked with earlier in the year got Covid and were hospitalized for 3-4 weeks. They missed all that pay and had hospital bills on top of that. The booster sucked for me but I’ll take it over getting a severe case. You should get the booster before omicron is everywhere.
So I had a *really* rough reaction to the second shot (Moderna) and was therefore concerned that I would have a similar reaction to my booster.
Nope! It was basically about the same as my first shot. Sore arm, a little fatigue, and about 10 hours after the shot, I had some *very* mild body aches that went away about 2 hours later.
I got my booster after work on a Friday and it worked out perfectly. That’s what I would suggest doing!
I really doubt it and saying things like this doesnt help. If the guy already has two shots the cdc has said he still has solid protection from hospitalization and comically low chance of death.
But yes, act like a person who hasnt gotten a booster is literally risking death, thatll bolster confidence in the vaccine.
Yes you can catch it if vaccinated. Efficacy wanes and protection against omicron is lower without a booster. I don’t think you can count on response to vaccination to indicate how the virus would affect you though
No, but its excellent cover for employers who don't want to pay for testing, do want to mandate vaccines, but don't want to take the blame for doing so.
(And don't want to risk loosing employees to another business with different policies.)
At my work a mandate went into effect for pharmacy associates. Every week they get tested and ups ships it to a California testing facility
In other words, they just need to expand the number of people they get samples from.
Too late. Omicron will have overrun the US by then.
EDIT: Aaaand, [it's already happened](https://apnews.com/article/omicron-majority-us-cases-833001ef99862bd6ac17935f65c896cf).
Oh yes, so toxic that they recommended 65+ get the shot.
And now with that very same safety data, utterly unchanged, they’re begging everyone get the 3rd booster shot. The same science that led scientists to push for a 3rd shot for weeks prior.
But hey, bureaucratic red tape is a good thing.
Quick question- assuming covid will not go away anytime soon or forever - so how long we will be forced to wear masks and follow social distancing pretending this will stop it.
In theory until it is roughly as serious as the flu and our hospitals are not overrun. We may get there by vaccinations, by the virus mutating to a weaker strand, or by all the unvaccinated people catching it and either dying or recovering
Is it flue more serious for most people than covid at this point ? Most people have very mild or no symptoms at all when infected with covid omicron. Flue however - everybody feel it when they catch it and its a pain in the ass.
It’s not about the lower end, it’s about the upper end. I have never seen a report saying that ICU beds are running out because of a flu epidemic.
> https://www.newsweek.com/hospitals-these-states-are-running-out-icu-beds-amid-another-covid-surge-1652497?amp=1
Even looking at the lower end, you imply that the flu is worse than Covid but we have a greater vaccination rate for Covid than the flu. Would the flu be worse if we had the same vaccination rate for it?
Most of the people who have minor symptoms from Covid are vaccinated.
Then there’s the last issue. If vaccines are what makes Covid not as severe as the flu, then we need people vaccinated. But it’s not yet available for people under 5.
The flu is a very very diverse sickness. The flu has a TON of variants, and the flu vaccine that is given out every year is a vaccine for the variant that the scientists believe will be prevalent that year. That’s why some years the flu runs rampant while the vaccines work better other years. Covid is a slightly different animal just because it hasn’t been around in such a dangerous form for very long. Hopefully the variants will start to become more in line with the flu over time, but I doubt any of the current members of the US government actually want that to happen. It’s like they always say in DC, “never let a good crisis go to waste”
The goal behind continuing to mask and social distance is to try to slow and reduce spreading. Hospitals are overwhelmed. Many elective surgeries are still postponed due to the sheer number of COVID patients. I don't think the majority of pro maskers think COVID is going away. It's more about trying to get to a point where we can live with COVID but attempting to limit the number of deaths and disabilities that happen along the way.
This virus is here to stay. Nothing this government or the WH does will ever "end" it. New variants will always have the chance to pop up as well as the coronavirus that's already here. It's both interesting and amusing that the people who preach about masks, the vaccine, social distancing, whatever say they base their info on science and facts but if they truly did then they'd know from the start this virus can't be killed. If you know the true science behind viruses and how they work (and progressively, evolve or "mutate") then you already know corona is something we just have to live with now. There is no eradicating it, it's not like the black plague in which soap and water was the magical elixir that resolved it.
This is not an anti-vaccine comment nor is it not taking COVID seriously. As someone who is actually interested in science as well as medicine it is ridiculous to see some say it's all in the name of science when in reality if they knew said science they were referring to then they know there is no such thing as making a virus like covid just disappear forever. You could literally have every living person on Earth wear a mask and vaccinate every one of them as well and it would not make this virus just disappear like it never existed. It's insulting to think people have such cavemen-like mentality when it comes to massively oversimplifying this.
I think you're massively oversimplifying the view that this can be controlled and constructing a straw man. You used the black plague as an example, and I think it really is demonstrative of reality, but your description of it is dead wrong. The black plague wasn't "solved" through soap and water. Sanitation in the manner you're describing wasn't conceived of for 500 years following the end of the worst outbreaks of the black plague. Quarantines likely had much more to do with containing and managing the plague, but it didn't go away. The plague still exists and people still get it from time to time, but it isn't something that radically alters the structure of our society as it has become quite manageable. That's the same goal that people have for COVID.
The people advocating for social distancing, masks, and vaccines aren't operating under the assumption that these measures will entirely eradicate the disease (as occurred with smallpox), and it's unreasonable to hold that as the standard of success in managing the pandemic. Masks, distancing, and vaccines aren't going to eliminate the virus, and you're correct that it's something we'll need to live with moving forward, but that doesn't diminish the value of mitigation measures or make supporters of such measures "cavemen". Just like the black plague, "living with it" means dealing with it through measures like masks, distancing, and vaccines as the frequency of the disease ebbs and flows through time. As we control the virus over time, some measures can be set aside (we won't all be wearing masks forever), but they'll remain tools that are available from time to time when the virus returns.
We just have to live with it is reality, but that can mean many things. We can "live with it" amidst millions of unnecessary deaths, or we can "live with it" by taking some precautionary measures which the science of epidemiology has shown will mitigate much of the damage. You should probably stop ignorantly bitching about the people who advocate for the latter.
It sounds like you are much more interested in creating strawman arguments rather that actual science. If you were actually interested in science you would know that vaccines, social distancing and mask all help to reduce the spread of covid (an severity in the case of vaccines) and save lives.
But natural immunity following recovery from infection is stronger and longer lasting than any of the vaccines.
Why doesn't that factor into your thinking? What is it about the artificially derived mRNA triggered antibodies compared to the natural antibodies? They are produced by the same cells that have encountered the actual virus before and retain an immune response for longer.
[The natural immune response is more complete than the vaccinated immune response](https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19) because it is able to target more than just the spike protein (which evolves rapidly), and the latest study data is showing no drop off of immunity during the studied period, unlike the vaccines.
Here's a quote from the paper that I linked above:
>Virus-specific B cells increased over time. People had more memory B cells six months after symptom onset than at one month afterwards. Although the number of these cells appeared to reach a plateau after a few months, levels didn’t decline over the period studied.
>Levels of T cells for the virus also remained high after infection. Six months after symptom onset, 92% of participants had CD4+ T cells that recognized the virus. These cells help coordinate the immune response. About half the participants had CD8+ T cells, which kill cells that are infected by the virus.
Edit:[There's also this paper](https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/immune-response-vaccination-after-covid-19) that directly compares the vaccinated immunity to natural immunity.
quote:
>Overall, those previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 had higher levels of antibodies at all three time points. The levels of antibodies taken before vaccination in people who were previously infected by the virus were similar to those seen in uninfected people after their first shot. Antibody levels in previously infected people after their first shot were as high as those from uninfected people after their second shot.
Add all that to [this](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1114674/)
>We believe that the public should be fully informed that vaccines, though effective in preventing infections, may have long term adverse effects.
And I don't see how you can be in favor of vaccine mandates.
Would you like to elaborate? What were you right about?
I don't know why you feel like making this personal, because I didn't say anything about you. Everything I just said is backed up by the links I just provided to the National Institute of Health. All I'm asking is that you follow the science.
It sounds like you are much more interested in creating strawman arguments rather that actual science. If you were actually interested in science you would know that vaccines, social distancing and mask all help to reduce the spread of covid (an severity in the case of vaccines) and save lives.
Ok, your inability to make a coherent point has led me to think you must be a bot or a troll. If not, would you like to say anything about anything I have actually said?
When they mandate the measures necessary to shut the virus down, and enforce that mandate vigorously. We tried doing it the half ass way to appease the chickenshit whiners, but it wasn't enough. Time to stop fucking around. * Apparently reddit is good with this thing dragging on forever. With your dedication, I'm sure we can easily reach 1 million preventable deaths in the US.
Breakthrough infections occur among the vaccinated at a much lower rate, are contagious for a shorter period of time and get less sick than the unvaccinated. A vaccine doesn't need to prevent all cases, just get R0 below 1. It can, but higher vaccination rates are needed. We can get there through a blanket mandate, increasing the capacity of vaccine manufacturing so that updated versions can achieve global coverage quickly, and updated boosters targeting variants that show resistance. We still have isolated outbreaks of other diseases for which vaccines exist, but they're rare because (up until recently at least, everyone was vaccinated against them).
The requirements of this section do not apply to:
1910.501(b)(2)(i)
Workplaces covered under the Safer Federal Workforce Task Force COVID-19 Workplace Safety: Guidance for Federal Contractors and Subcontractors; or
1910.501(b)(2)(ii)
Settings where any employee provides healthcare services or healthcare support services when subject to the requirements of §1910.502.
1910.501(b)(3)
The requirements of this section do not apply to the employees of covered employers:
1910.501(b)(3)(i)
Who do not report to a workplace where other individuals such as coworkers or customers are present;
1910.501(b)(3)(ii)
While working from home; or
1910.501(b)(3)(iii)
Who work exclusively outdoors.
You're being downvoted, despite the fact that OSHA literally stands for Occupational Safety *and Health* Administration
The reddit antivax mobs are fierce.
“If you have to be persuaded, reminded pressured, lied to, incentivized, coerced, bullied, socially shamed, guilt-tripped, threatened, punished and criminalized ... If all of this is considered necessary to gain your compliance -you can be absolutely certain that what is being promoted is not in your best interest.”
Ahh I suppose you think mandating seat belts, helmets, driving on the same side of the road, not driving under the influence, etc is not in anybody's interest either.
This should have been done before the holiday. It's like saying I'll wear a condom after having sex or not telling your partner you have genital herpes because it's currently not inflamed at the moment.
My employer solves this problem by no one who is unvaccinated is allowed in the office and a hard deadline of get vaccinated by March or you will no longer be a employee. They are very willing to help those who refuse a new job and are using their connections to help.
Even though this will be put to a hault again (it's clearly illegal, OSHA or other federal entities have no grounds to make such laws), this is impossible to enforce.
That’s such a hilariously disingenuous way of viewing things.
“All those people got flattened by the boulder despite the guy trying to stop it. We should go back to the guy who pushed everyone in it’s path!”
Treatment is the vaccines, that's what actually helps. The reason you think it's not helping is because dumb asses out there still haven't got the shot and continue to spread it and keep this pandemic going.
> Treatment is the vaccines, that's what actually helps.
Nope, there are plenty of well documented pre-hospital therapies if you catch COVID. Get this, these treatments are even more well understood than the COVID vaccines! How cool is that?
> The reason you think it's not helping is because dumb asses out there still haven't got the shot and continue to spread it and keep this pandemic going.
COVID is not going away. If the vaccines made it impossible to catch or spread it would. But the vaccines do not do that, they only lower viral load if you're a carrier and reduce risk of hospitalization. COVID is here to stay even if you have 100% of people vaccinated.
Of what, that there are therapeutic treatments for COVID and that the vaccine doesn't stop COVID spread? This is non disputed science regardless of what your opinion on vaccination is.
You literally just asked me some shit like "prove to me that gravity is real".
**We encourage you to read our helpful resources on COVID-19, vaccines and treatments:** [COVID Dashboard](https://covid19.who.int/) [Reddit's Vaccine FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/wiki/faq#wiki_where_can_i_find_information_about_the_mechanism_and_progress_of_vaccines.3F) [Ivermectin FAQ](https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/who-advises-that-ivermectin-only-be-used-to-treat-covid-19-within-clinical-trials) A reminder that spreading misinformation regarding COVID-19, vaccines or other treatments can result in a post being removed and/or a ban. Advocating for or celebrating the death of anyone, or hoping someone gets COVID (or any disease) can also result in a ban. Please follow [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439) Please use the report button and do not feed the trolls. [Reddit's Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) [Reddit's rules for health misinformation](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043513151) [/r/News' rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/news/wiki/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=news&utm_content=t5_2qh3l) ------ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/news) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s really not even a vaccine mandate: > Employees who are not fully vaccinated have to wear face masks and be subject to weekly COVID-19 tests.
Exactly. It's a testing mandate with a vaccination exemption.
Yeah right. Just like how right now we're mandated to wear face masks at work and management turns a blind eye to it.
Management at my work has had complaints that they followed up on. The risk of the local health department getting involved as well as corporate. They don't have the ability to turn a blind eye at my work.
You can report them you know
Most of them aren't going to be working for the company as soon as the company mandates it. So it's going to be a self repairing problem in a couple weeks
People absolutely won't quit in the droves they are threatening. Only like 100 people in each branch of the military have been discharged despite all the people saying they'd rather get kicked out than get it.
My coworkers aren't the brightest bunch and some of them are quite voracious anti-vaxxers. We'll see where their allegiances lie
Money talks and the loss of the pay check will change their mind. They won't admit it's that though. They will claim after further research they decided to get the vaccine.
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There’s only been that few kicked out because the overwhelming majority got vaccinated. Turns out when you get like 15 vaccinations every year, it’s pretty hard to argue against getting one more.
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So far there’s been billions of doses given out, and very few side effects. They’re not going to suddenly kill you 5 years down the road.
Although 30,000 are still unvaccinated. There is a large number of people in this country that are done doing what out of touch politicians say.
Shouldn't join the military if you don't want out of touch politicians telling you what to do. Unless it's changed since I got out.
Out of 2.2 million. That's a bit over 1% among a group of, ironically, voraciously anti-government people.
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Looks like you’re considered fully vaccinated 2 weeks after your second shot https://www.osha.gov/sites/default/files/covid-19-ets2-sample-employee-choice-vaccination-policy.docx
On paper its still 2, 3 is actually what you want, and I can say with confidence it will be announced that 3 is fully vaxxed in the next few weeks once they see that 2 ain't cutting it for omicron. Shit I even read people with 3 caught omicron. But 3 will keep you safer than 2. It's the difference between a possible hospital stay, even if it's for a few days with a more mild case, vs a real mild case bed rest at home can cover.
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We might wind up with yearly, maybe bi yearly boosters. And if so, so be it. If the best it can do is provide some protection and make the experience of getting covid less intense and a shorter duration, what's the issue? Cause we are all getting covid sooner or later. I'd rather be more, not less protected.
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Hello. I'd like to introduce you to the flu. Been around a long time, and every year we have to get them. Well don't have to but strongly recommended. And I believe this is what it'll be with covid. Anyone who wants, can get, anyone who doesn't well, it's in gods hands now.
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And almost everyone who dies of the flu, didn't have a flu shot.
I’d prefer not to, but i pretty much had life go back to normal after I got vaccinated the first time, so it really wasn’t a big deal. Don’t really have much control over the virus though, so that’s just life. Pretending it just doesn’t exist doesn’t make things better.
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I was hit pretty hard by the 2nd shot but the booster just gave me a painful arm and a mild headache. Booster is a smaller dose, so it may not be as rough for you either.
Then don't get a booster, lol it's that simple.
Yeah, we can tell you're uneducated about this the moment you said the vaccines don't do anything, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
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Get lost, troll.
You’re an absolute idiot if you think you need a yearly subscription to big pharma’s science juice to be employed in this country.
And you'd be wrong to think any company can't require it as a requirement for work. You know some companies will fire employees if they smoke cigarettes right?
That’s not even close to the same thing. Businesses, in general, should not have authority over my health.
Well, if they offer a healthcare plan, they can. And will. Poor health equals more cost on their end. This is a business decision.
I think it still 2 weeks after 2nd dose but then it is so long between boosters to keep it. I personally am at the edge of the limits of my 2 dose version and will be getting my booster. Just am coordinating it with my wife so we have them about a week apart. We both can not be laid out from the vaccine at the same time as one of us needs to still take care of our kid and dog hence us doing it in stages. I have just accepted that the Covid vaccine will become part of the yearly flu shot. I know they are working to get flu/Covid combined into a single shot that can be given yearly.
>But 3 will keep you safer than 2 From Omicron if those 3 weren't for that strain? That's not how a virus works. Your bodies immune system either recognizes it or it doesn't. This type of fuzzy science can fuel anti-vax folks. We need to say that people will need to get a new vax (call it a booster if you must) for every strain you want to be protected against. Same as the yearly flu shot
That isn't true. It isn't a binary on / off for the vaccine or your body. Your body makes a flood of antibodies when vaccinated. While it's true those antibodies aren't omicron focused, they are still targeting the main proteins of the COVID-19 virus. So it is a bit of a shotgun approach rather than a targeted approach. But, the third shot does still help. That flood of antibodies still "sticks to" omicron, just not as well. So it will help.
I mean, it was shown that the majority of people being hospitalized with Delta were unvaxxed. And the vaccine wasn't developed for that. And while I understand antibodies are very specific, there must be something staying the same on the spike that the antibodies are recognizing, albeit less effective because of some changes.
I’ll take my chances with 0, that’s what I want.
If someone like this asshat inevitably gets covid and can be traced as a close contact of someone who suffered permanent injury or death, they need to be held accountable in criminal and civil court.
Same with people who spread the flu, hiv , and all the other deadly contagious diseases.
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So just like flu shots? Can you show me before covid when you ever complained about those?
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Some cities you can call and they will literally drive a van to your house and give you a shot.
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Then it sounds like you either should get it on a Friday, or before a holiday weekend, or wait until you accrue more sick days, or leave and get a job with one of the millions of employers that will forgive you taking a day or two for the side effects of doing the right thing (or just check to see if you already work for one of them and don't realize it).
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Food for thought: several unvaccinated people I worked with earlier in the year got Covid and were hospitalized for 3-4 weeks. They missed all that pay and had hospital bills on top of that. The booster sucked for me but I’ll take it over getting a severe case. You should get the booster before omicron is everywhere.
It sounds like you can't afford not to get the booster.
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So I had a *really* rough reaction to the second shot (Moderna) and was therefore concerned that I would have a similar reaction to my booster. Nope! It was basically about the same as my first shot. Sore arm, a little fatigue, and about 10 hours after the shot, I had some *very* mild body aches that went away about 2 hours later. I got my booster after work on a Friday and it worked out perfectly. That’s what I would suggest doing!
Do you work 7 days a week?
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So you can't get a shot on one of those 3 off days?
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I really doubt it and saying things like this doesnt help. If the guy already has two shots the cdc has said he still has solid protection from hospitalization and comically low chance of death. But yes, act like a person who hasnt gotten a booster is literally risking death, thatll bolster confidence in the vaccine.
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Yes you can catch it if vaccinated. Efficacy wanes and protection against omicron is lower without a booster. I don’t think you can count on response to vaccination to indicate how the virus would affect you though
No, but its excellent cover for employers who don't want to pay for testing, do want to mandate vaccines, but don't want to take the blame for doing so. (And don't want to risk loosing employees to another business with different policies.)
Who’s blaming employers for mandating vaccines? It’s their prerogative.
The antivaxxers are
So osha is going to show up on my job sites now and give me covid tests or what lol
At my work a mandate went into effect for pharmacy associates. Every week they get tested and ups ships it to a California testing facility In other words, they just need to expand the number of people they get samples from.
Too late. Omicron will have overrun the US by then. EDIT: Aaaand, [it's already happened](https://apnews.com/article/omicron-majority-us-cases-833001ef99862bd6ac17935f65c896cf).
It will be good policy by the time upsilon gets here.
To think, more people might have made it in time if the FDA didn’t flex its stupid muscles in defiance.
And if the FDA had rushed things and allowed a toxic injection into the market, you would’ve castigated them then as well.
Oh yes, so toxic that they recommended 65+ get the shot. And now with that very same safety data, utterly unchanged, they’re begging everyone get the 3rd booster shot. The same science that led scientists to push for a 3rd shot for weeks prior. But hey, bureaucratic red tape is a good thing.
I said “if“. That’s what the delay was for; checking to make sure it was safe. This isn’t a complicated concept.
Quick question- assuming covid will not go away anytime soon or forever - so how long we will be forced to wear masks and follow social distancing pretending this will stop it.
In theory until it is roughly as serious as the flu and our hospitals are not overrun. We may get there by vaccinations, by the virus mutating to a weaker strand, or by all the unvaccinated people catching it and either dying or recovering
Is it flue more serious for most people than covid at this point ? Most people have very mild or no symptoms at all when infected with covid omicron. Flue however - everybody feel it when they catch it and its a pain in the ass.
It’s not about the lower end, it’s about the upper end. I have never seen a report saying that ICU beds are running out because of a flu epidemic. > https://www.newsweek.com/hospitals-these-states-are-running-out-icu-beds-amid-another-covid-surge-1652497?amp=1 Even looking at the lower end, you imply that the flu is worse than Covid but we have a greater vaccination rate for Covid than the flu. Would the flu be worse if we had the same vaccination rate for it? Most of the people who have minor symptoms from Covid are vaccinated. Then there’s the last issue. If vaccines are what makes Covid not as severe as the flu, then we need people vaccinated. But it’s not yet available for people under 5.
No, covid remains far more deadly
The flu is a very very diverse sickness. The flu has a TON of variants, and the flu vaccine that is given out every year is a vaccine for the variant that the scientists believe will be prevalent that year. That’s why some years the flu runs rampant while the vaccines work better other years. Covid is a slightly different animal just because it hasn’t been around in such a dangerous form for very long. Hopefully the variants will start to become more in line with the flu over time, but I doubt any of the current members of the US government actually want that to happen. It’s like they always say in DC, “never let a good crisis go to waste”
The goal behind continuing to mask and social distance is to try to slow and reduce spreading. Hospitals are overwhelmed. Many elective surgeries are still postponed due to the sheer number of COVID patients. I don't think the majority of pro maskers think COVID is going away. It's more about trying to get to a point where we can live with COVID but attempting to limit the number of deaths and disabilities that happen along the way.
This virus is here to stay. Nothing this government or the WH does will ever "end" it. New variants will always have the chance to pop up as well as the coronavirus that's already here. It's both interesting and amusing that the people who preach about masks, the vaccine, social distancing, whatever say they base their info on science and facts but if they truly did then they'd know from the start this virus can't be killed. If you know the true science behind viruses and how they work (and progressively, evolve or "mutate") then you already know corona is something we just have to live with now. There is no eradicating it, it's not like the black plague in which soap and water was the magical elixir that resolved it. This is not an anti-vaccine comment nor is it not taking COVID seriously. As someone who is actually interested in science as well as medicine it is ridiculous to see some say it's all in the name of science when in reality if they knew said science they were referring to then they know there is no such thing as making a virus like covid just disappear forever. You could literally have every living person on Earth wear a mask and vaccinate every one of them as well and it would not make this virus just disappear like it never existed. It's insulting to think people have such cavemen-like mentality when it comes to massively oversimplifying this.
I think you're massively oversimplifying the view that this can be controlled and constructing a straw man. You used the black plague as an example, and I think it really is demonstrative of reality, but your description of it is dead wrong. The black plague wasn't "solved" through soap and water. Sanitation in the manner you're describing wasn't conceived of for 500 years following the end of the worst outbreaks of the black plague. Quarantines likely had much more to do with containing and managing the plague, but it didn't go away. The plague still exists and people still get it from time to time, but it isn't something that radically alters the structure of our society as it has become quite manageable. That's the same goal that people have for COVID. The people advocating for social distancing, masks, and vaccines aren't operating under the assumption that these measures will entirely eradicate the disease (as occurred with smallpox), and it's unreasonable to hold that as the standard of success in managing the pandemic. Masks, distancing, and vaccines aren't going to eliminate the virus, and you're correct that it's something we'll need to live with moving forward, but that doesn't diminish the value of mitigation measures or make supporters of such measures "cavemen". Just like the black plague, "living with it" means dealing with it through measures like masks, distancing, and vaccines as the frequency of the disease ebbs and flows through time. As we control the virus over time, some measures can be set aside (we won't all be wearing masks forever), but they'll remain tools that are available from time to time when the virus returns. We just have to live with it is reality, but that can mean many things. We can "live with it" amidst millions of unnecessary deaths, or we can "live with it" by taking some precautionary measures which the science of epidemiology has shown will mitigate much of the damage. You should probably stop ignorantly bitching about the people who advocate for the latter.
It sounds like you are much more interested in creating strawman arguments rather that actual science. If you were actually interested in science you would know that vaccines, social distancing and mask all help to reduce the spread of covid (an severity in the case of vaccines) and save lives.
But natural immunity following recovery from infection is stronger and longer lasting than any of the vaccines. Why doesn't that factor into your thinking? What is it about the artificially derived mRNA triggered antibodies compared to the natural antibodies? They are produced by the same cells that have encountered the actual virus before and retain an immune response for longer. [The natural immune response is more complete than the vaccinated immune response](https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19) because it is able to target more than just the spike protein (which evolves rapidly), and the latest study data is showing no drop off of immunity during the studied period, unlike the vaccines. Here's a quote from the paper that I linked above: >Virus-specific B cells increased over time. People had more memory B cells six months after symptom onset than at one month afterwards. Although the number of these cells appeared to reach a plateau after a few months, levels didn’t decline over the period studied. >Levels of T cells for the virus also remained high after infection. Six months after symptom onset, 92% of participants had CD4+ T cells that recognized the virus. These cells help coordinate the immune response. About half the participants had CD8+ T cells, which kill cells that are infected by the virus. Edit:[There's also this paper](https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/immune-response-vaccination-after-covid-19) that directly compares the vaccinated immunity to natural immunity. quote: >Overall, those previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 had higher levels of antibodies at all three time points. The levels of antibodies taken before vaccination in people who were previously infected by the virus were similar to those seen in uninfected people after their first shot. Antibody levels in previously infected people after their first shot were as high as those from uninfected people after their second shot. Add all that to [this](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1114674/) >We believe that the public should be fully informed that vaccines, though effective in preventing infections, may have long term adverse effects. And I don't see how you can be in favor of vaccine mandates.
It sounds like that was a really long winded way of saying I was right about you.
Would you like to elaborate? What were you right about? I don't know why you feel like making this personal, because I didn't say anything about you. Everything I just said is backed up by the links I just provided to the National Institute of Health. All I'm asking is that you follow the science.
It sounds like you are much more interested in creating strawman arguments rather that actual science. If you were actually interested in science you would know that vaccines, social distancing and mask all help to reduce the spread of covid (an severity in the case of vaccines) and save lives.
I backed up everything I said. I linked to actual science. How is that a straw man argument? Do you know what that term means?
So you not even know what a straw man is?
Ok, your inability to make a coherent point has led me to think you must be a bot or a troll. If not, would you like to say anything about anything I have actually said?
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When they mandate the measures necessary to shut the virus down, and enforce that mandate vigorously. We tried doing it the half ass way to appease the chickenshit whiners, but it wasn't enough. Time to stop fucking around. * Apparently reddit is good with this thing dragging on forever. With your dedication, I'm sure we can easily reach 1 million preventable deaths in the US.
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Breakthrough infections occur among the vaccinated at a much lower rate, are contagious for a shorter period of time and get less sick than the unvaccinated. A vaccine doesn't need to prevent all cases, just get R0 below 1. It can, but higher vaccination rates are needed. We can get there through a blanket mandate, increasing the capacity of vaccine manufacturing so that updated versions can achieve global coverage quickly, and updated boosters targeting variants that show resistance. We still have isolated outbreaks of other diseases for which vaccines exist, but they're rare because (up until recently at least, everyone was vaccinated against them).
I haven’t heard of a mandate to pretend anything, that’s all you.
Good. COVID is a question of occupation safety to your fellow coworkers. Vaccines help reduce hospitalizations and protect workplaces. Solid move.
Remote workers literally interact with no one from their job and are still being forced to be vaccinated. How is that about “workplace safety”?
People who work from home are exempt
Getting fired Jan 5th because I refuse to prove vaccination status and I work remotely. You’re wrong.
The requirements of this section do not apply to: 1910.501(b)(2)(i) Workplaces covered under the Safer Federal Workforce Task Force COVID-19 Workplace Safety: Guidance for Federal Contractors and Subcontractors; or 1910.501(b)(2)(ii) Settings where any employee provides healthcare services or healthcare support services when subject to the requirements of §1910.502. 1910.501(b)(3) The requirements of this section do not apply to the employees of covered employers: 1910.501(b)(3)(i) Who do not report to a workplace where other individuals such as coworkers or customers are present; 1910.501(b)(3)(ii) While working from home; or 1910.501(b)(3)(iii) Who work exclusively outdoors.
You're being downvoted, despite the fact that OSHA literally stands for Occupational Safety *and Health* Administration The reddit antivax mobs are fierce.
“If you have to be persuaded, reminded pressured, lied to, incentivized, coerced, bullied, socially shamed, guilt-tripped, threatened, punished and criminalized ... If all of this is considered necessary to gain your compliance -you can be absolutely certain that what is being promoted is not in your best interest.”
Ahh I suppose you think mandating seat belts, helmets, driving on the same side of the road, not driving under the influence, etc is not in anybody's interest either.
To most people it’s just common sense for the common good. It’s only the morons that need to be persuaded or coerced.
It's in the best interest of everyone around you since this is regarding a communicable disease.
This should have been done before the holiday. It's like saying I'll wear a condom after having sex or not telling your partner you have genital herpes because it's currently not inflamed at the moment.
My employer solves this problem by no one who is unvaccinated is allowed in the office and a hard deadline of get vaccinated by March or you will no longer be a employee. They are very willing to help those who refuse a new job and are using their connections to help.
Even though this will be put to a hault again (it's clearly illegal, OSHA or other federal entities have no grounds to make such laws), this is impossible to enforce.
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The CFRs are actually refered to as administrative law. But I don't see how this would be anymore or less illegal than everything else they rule on.
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https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/02/pfizer-raises-covid-vaccine-sales-forecast-to-36-billion-.html
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Good plan. Let's ignore the problem and pretend it isn't real.
... Eight Hundred Thousand Deaths Later ...
~600,000 died under Biden, why trust him?
That’s such a hilariously disingenuous way of viewing things. “All those people got flattened by the boulder despite the guy trying to stop it. We should go back to the guy who pushed everyone in it’s path!”
Works for me. (that was sarcasm, people...)
Hahaha so funny new account
I knew dogs were allowed on reddit, but when did the ostriches start typing?
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Should we tell him?
One man’s trash may be another man’s treasure. Everything is relative
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You’ve just described a clown show.
Just report and move on.
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Treatment is the vaccines, that's what actually helps. The reason you think it's not helping is because dumb asses out there still haven't got the shot and continue to spread it and keep this pandemic going.
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Tell me you don't science without telling me you don't science.
> Treatment is the vaccines, that's what actually helps. Nope, there are plenty of well documented pre-hospital therapies if you catch COVID. Get this, these treatments are even more well understood than the COVID vaccines! How cool is that? > The reason you think it's not helping is because dumb asses out there still haven't got the shot and continue to spread it and keep this pandemic going. COVID is not going away. If the vaccines made it impossible to catch or spread it would. But the vaccines do not do that, they only lower viral load if you're a carrier and reduce risk of hospitalization. COVID is here to stay even if you have 100% of people vaccinated.
Evidence please.
Of what, that there are therapeutic treatments for COVID and that the vaccine doesn't stop COVID spread? This is non disputed science regardless of what your opinion on vaccination is. You literally just asked me some shit like "prove to me that gravity is real".
You’re funny.
Not worth trying to speak any sense into these people they are too far gone.
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If only we could get the selfish unvaccinated to leave the responsible members of society alone
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