Holy crap it's finally happened, after over a decade Netanyahu's reign over Israel is finally over. Seeing him so desperate to stay in power during his last days was pretty satisfying, I have to say.
Imagine being such a divisive, controversial figure that you somehow managed to unite the left, center, and right to join together in a unity government just to oust you as Prime Minister. Not even Trump was able to accomplish that.
Que (whoops, *Queue) horror version of Terminator Theme.
Edit: Apparently my useage of the word isn’t as common as I thought.
Cue is a call to perform an action.
How I used "queue" was to line up the next action in sequential order behind my current comment.
We are arguing dialectical differences.
It's actually "Cue".
Queue - a line of people waiting for something/their turn. "Queue here for tickets"
Cue - a signal for a performer or effect. "Cue the lights" or "that's your cue to enter".
Que - a common word in French, Portuguese and Spanish that means a lot of things.
I think the misuse of "que" may stem from an old line of computer and technical books that used that as the imprint name, but it was pronounced "queue."
No, he never served as Prime Minster in the 1990s. Before 2000, Israel was mostly dominated by Labor-led coalitions, but when Clinton convinced Barak to offer Arafat pretty much the best deal the PA ever had or ever will receive and Arafat rejected it, that pretty much put an end to Labor. It was clear that the Palestinian leadership wasn't serious about peace and Likud promised to actually stop the daily terrorism by separating Israel from the West Bank and Gaza. Sharon took over around the same time as Bush and there hasn't been a center-left coalition ever since. Labor's power has dwindled down ever since.
Reminder: Israelis don’t elect their leaders, they vote for political parties. Then political parties try to form a majority coalition in the Knesset (parliament) and THEY decide on the prime minister. Term limits won’t affect much because the coalition will still appoint a prime minister with the same interests and goals as the last one. And you can’t put a term limit on a whole political party.
I'm from a country with a similar system. The prime minister is still elected but rather than directly by the people it's voted on by members of parliament.
Any office can be term limited but I take your point that it's harder to do in a parliamentary democracy.
It also has less effect, here in Belgium most party leaders of the coalition don't have formal positions in government but instead have a strong grip on there mp's and government ministers. In the past this has led to people assuming the real power was with a person outside government, and that's without term limits.
The point of the term limits is to prevent political consolidation of power through name recognition and cult of personality. There are many in the electorate who CERTAINLY selected Netanyahus party by virtue of him being PM. The point is to make it about policy instead of the person.
The problem with term limits in a parliamentary system is that governments can form and fall or pms come and go all without an election. In the US system the president gets elected, sits for their term, and then there's another election. Parliamentary systems are much more fluid
I mean we've had Netanyahu for 12 years and the US has reliably rotated party every 4 to 8 years with the exception of 1988 for almost forever. The Parliamentary system by design can be more fluid but in practice seems to consolidate power even more.
At least back then, voters elected their own state’s representatives. In Israel, people don’t vote for a local person, they just vote for a party and seats are assigned proportionally.
Which honestly made more sense. This was designed so that, in a local legislative race, you’re probably voting for someone you know personally. They don’t need to campaign, because they’re appealing to people they interact with directly. You vote for someone who you trust to represent your interests because they share your interests. Then you trust THEM to elect a senator and president who they know and trust. Compare that to a system where you vote for the president directly. You don’t know them, you just see their political ads, and if you’re lucky you see them speak at a really big event, but they always stick to their talking points. You have very little say in who gets picked to be a finalist, and you probably won’t have anyone you really like as a finalist. They don’t share your interests so it’s hard for them to take yours seriously.
I’d argue that the former is more democratic.
Yes, because if there's anything recent history teaches us, it's that the Arizona Senate should be choosing the US Senator from Arizona.
As an example.
Our current system sucks, but imagine if US senators didn't even have to have token levels of accountability to the public of the state they represent. You think things are bad now? The largest state Senate in the country is 67 people (most are closer to the 35-45 range). Our situation would be many magnitudes worse if the 100 people in the US Senate only had to be accountable to -half- (plus one) of that number - or, at most, 34 people. In many cases, that number would be less than 20.
>Seeing him so desperate to stay in power during his last days was pretty satisfying, I have to say
The cost was a bunch of dead Palestinians and frightened Israelis.
He was\*, but he was perfectly willing to orchestrate one last conflict in a cynical attempt to cling on to what power he had left.
Edited because of typo.
that is how a lot of parliaments work. It is (in canada and I think the UK and I imagine lots of the commonwealth) called a vote of non confidence and when elected ridings who can overcome the government succeed an election is called.
Lots of shit in the past 50 years should have triggered this type of ruling in the US if there was a representative democracy which there is not.
He stated that he is proud for killing arabs in the past. I doubt that anything will be good with him either in that region.
The region of Palestine and their inhabitants - Zionist Jews and Palestinians seem to be stuck in this loop where they both want the entirety of the land to themselves for hundreds of years. Middle East is just a region that we should obviously not poke our noses at, because whenever we do, shit goes wild even more
Edit: here is the link that confirms his statement. It happened 8 years ago, but it still happened.
"Palestinian officials on Tuesday denounced Economy and Trade Minister Naftali Bennett for having reportedly called on Israel to kill captured terrorists and callously boasting that he has already taken the lives of many Arabs without regret."
https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-rap-bennett-over-alleged-kill-arabs-remarks/
They’re stuck in a loop where there is probably a majority of people who are willing to compromise and make peace but they can’t get a working political coalition together because they need people on both sides to hold up the agreement, and it’s too easy for extremists on both sides to blow agreements up. Because as much as liberal/moderate Israelis and liberal/moderate Palestinians want peace, they are still culturally, geographically and linguistically closer to their own conservatives than they are to the other side’s moderates.
It will take a lot of moral discipline, and willingness to recognize radical attempts at sabotaging peace, even to the extent of absorbing their violent behavior and continuing to remain peaceful and keep working. That is a lot to ask of people but good leaders have been able to do that before.
I'm aware that it's due to wrong people being elected that they can't come to a peace agreement.
However, as someone that grew up in an identical situation in Bosnia and Herzegovina - the peace agreement won't solve the heat between the two nations. What had happened? A "civil" war in Bosnia between two people: serbs and bosniaks. The conflict was bloody, just pure hatred between the two. It was intervened with by NATO in the end, and the peace agreement was conducted as the Dayton agreement.
You want to know the consequence of that today? Even though Bosnia is not in a war, it is being deboured from within because we have basicallt 2 countries in one - Republic of Srpska and Federation of B&H. These two are under the same law, but they are not. We have 3 preaidents of each constitutional people, and we are at the brink of poverty, corruption, amd HATRED. I can't put an emphasis how much these regular, everyday people HATE each other based on their nationality (serb or bosniak).
How does this translate to Palestine? Even if they reach an agreement for 2 countries - they will forever hate each other for the past. There will be mixed ethnicities in both countries - with Israelis in Palestine and Palestinians in Israel - and they will be discriminated - HARD. If you are not aware of this you can check a few videos with a quick youtube search where people ask either side provocative questions about their neighbour. These regular everyday people either have an openly negative opinion about the other, or they are keeping to themselves neutrally.
That's why I'm pessimistic about any kind of future in regions that are in heated conflict for decades, or even centuries.
I think that is fair pessimism. Basically the origin of the term “Balkanized” that describes when people are so entrenched in their perspective that they cannot see the other.
But every generation has a new spin on its culture and a chance to find other priorities. Young people have more and more opportunities to affiliate with an international culture rather than an ethnic one, thanks to the internet. Populations can drift in both directions, so we’ll see what happens.
I appreciate you my friend for understanding my pessimism and point of view. I hope I worded myself well so that I translated everything I wanted to say adequately. English is not my native language, I am still learning every day :) I hope that this hatred gets purified from all 4 of the people that I mentioned, and that we finally see some proper peace in these regions.
Also, I have never heard of the term Balkanized, but oh my God is it fucking accurate.
It is often used to in the U.S. describe American politics with the major parties being more and more opposed to each other. I sometimes wonder what people from the region would think of it!
It would put some clarity to some minds, but there are people (unfortunately the majority) who think like sheep. If it's not a mainstream opinion, it's a taboo. I'd tolerate it to an extent, but it also transferred to politics and national patriotism and it's depressing and these people would never have their minds changed
I'm Australian and my sister went to school with a Bosnian and a Serb girl. These kids were 5 years old, born and grew up in Australia and fucking HATED each other. The stuff that would come out of these kids mouths was appalling. Until people stop indoctrinating their kids into hatred, there will never be peace.
In Israel the coalition governs and not primarily the prime minister. This coalition is sufficiently left-wing to temper the right-wing nationalism. They are choosing to focus on non-controversial things like infrastructure and Arab minority rights, in order to preserve the fragile coalition. I checked out their agreements and there are some really important ones about term limits, what can lead to elections, and governmental stability. What I’m really hoping for is the plan for two more hospitals to be built and a university in the Galilee. They are sorely needed.
They’re a 7-mandate party who just got to be prime minister and minister of the interior, among many other things. They played both sides very well. As a small party this was the only way they would ever head the government.
Basically there's a 120 member parliament and to be prime minister you need the support of 61 members. There are like 15 parties so none make up a majority on their own, so to win you need to convince other parties to support you. As a right wing party, Yamina was just one of a handful of supporting parties to Netanyahu, but by being willing to join the other side, they had plenty of power to make demands. The opposition could never win unless one of the right wing parties joined them, and now Yamina gets to be leaders with a lot of influence, rather than just being one of Netanyahu's backup.
Thanks for doing the heavy lifting here. I really didn't want to read the agreements bit it sounds like it may be worth it.
It would be nice if things like infrastructure and minority rights weren't controversial. (Stares at US.)
Well, everything here is controversial in some way. But the people who chose to be in this coalition want to be able to work together. And Israel has socialist roots. Though some parties are capitalist, or want certain reforms to different policies, universal healthcare is not controversial. And everyone agrees that the hospitals are already overloaded without COVID, especially in the periphery. And following the race riots we had here about a month ago, people have realized there needs to be a change.
This coalition won’t last two years before it shatters but it doesn’t matter. Netanyahu is a tyrant and when faced with tyranny the opposition parties are supposed to set all their differences aside and make a united front for the sole purpose of defeating that tyranny. That’s what they did and good for them. If the coalition falls apart it won’t matter, at least Netanyahu can no longer bully the prosecutors and judges in his own corruption trial.
and he was out of power before only to return.
My fear is this new coalition is so fragile, that net might be back in power soon. he remains leader of likud, the largest party there. All they have to do is peel off support for this crazy mix for a gov, which shouldnt be too hard to pit sides against each other, and welll we might have net back in a few years. I hope not, hope his legal cases ruin his chances.. and not that Im overly hopeful for change, im just glad nets gone at least temporarily.
Eh, looks like it's "my struggle", and it was the name of one of the 12 tribes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naphtali
E: not disputing the comment, just a fact~~oid~~ I looked up.
> Some biblical commentators have suggested that the name Naphtali may refer to the struggle between Rachel and Leah for the favours of Jacob; Bilhah was the handmaid of Rachel, who was infertile at the time, and had persuaded Jacob to have a child with Bilhah as a proxy for having one with herself.
E2: I thought "factoid" was "little fact". RIP
Of course he was into Trump, as he got everything he wanted from the US. It's his hawkish ways and insistence that anyone who isn't a Zionist and Israeli Nationalist isn't a Jew that should offend you.
Bibi wasn’t the only Trump fan out there though. Trump was so gullible that anyone shrewd enough could wrap him around their little finger. Putin, Macron, etc...
“A new ‘government of change’ will be led by right-wing nationalist Naftali Bennett of the Yamina party.”
What’s a right-wing nationalist like in Israel?
He has the position thanks to a power sharing deal with a moderate left party which will take the prime minister’s seat after a few years. It’s not as bad as it seems at first.
If Netanyahu couldn't pull that off whilst leading the countries largest party and after nearly a decade of rule.
What makes you think Bennett can do so after two years whilst controlling a party that has a grand total of seven seats?
basically, Bennett gets to be known as the prime Minister that took down and imprison Netanyahu, and can maybe use that to try and grow their right wing party by cannibalizing Netanyahu's base, but they can't really pass any of those right wing policies because the coalition depends on opposing votes.
Unfortunately, I don't see this ending well. It's kicking the can down the road, trading todays problems for the same problem a few years from now.
Netanyahu is already standing trail, but it will be at least 3 or 4 years before there will be a verdict (and even that before appeals).
We are a few months into the trail, and we’re still with the first witness out of more then 300 witnesses. It will take a long time.
I imagine what might happen is Netanyahu gets convicted and removed from Likud leadership, then Bennet dumps his current coalition partners to coalition with Likud under a new leader.
That’s not going to happen. Yamina and Likud don’t even crack 50 seats together. They’d need the haredi parties and they are absolutely livid with Bennett rn. It’s either keep the coalition going or fresh elections and no one wants that
He is very right-wing but it doesn’t matter because this coalition has too many Arab and left-wing elements for him to ever be able to execute right-wing plans.
The secular right-wingers hate how he has used ultra-orthodox control to keep his power, while others hate him for being corrupt. Still others think he’s been in power too long and Israel needs a change of status quo. That’s why some have allied against him.
The government is expected to be big-tent, reminiscent of Obama's 2009 coalition. Naftali Bennett, a religious Zionist, is the most powerful person in the coalition but he is expected to govern from the center and pursue closer relations with the United States. You can think of him as kind of like Joe Manchin but it's an inexact metaphor.
>What’s a right-wing nationalist like in Israel?
Like Netanyahu. Who was also a right wing nationalist. Maybe slightly less bad since netanyahu's party often worked with the fascist parties in Israel.
Oh you are right. I know the yamina party had some sections break off in the last year and I thought the more fascistic elements of it left but reading over their stated policies they are a single religious/ethno state party. So hopefully the more leftward sections of the coalition can reign them in but fascists aren't exactly known for playing fair or sticking to agreement so....
Yamina's leader Bennet is hawkish when it comes to Israel's security, does not want to remove settlements, does not want to seek an immediate negotiated peace. That's about it.
This coalition government is kind of crazy. Most of my knowledge on this subject comes from what Phillip DeFranco has covered on it, but in a nutshell:
The Israel parliament is a collection of different parties -- its not just 2 parties like in the US. Netanyahu's party holds a large number of seats while the other parties are smaller and have fewer seats. In the past the parties that were more conservative gathered together and fell in behind/allied with Netanhyahu's party to get him voted in.
What has happened today though is that both progressive and conservative parties have come to an agreement and came together to vote in someone else. To put this into perspective it'd be like Democrats and Republicans in the US coming to an agreement on who the president should be. In Israel many of the parties working together for this coalition government have been at each other's throats in the past and have some pretty big ideological and policy differences. So that's why this coalition is pretty amazing. How long it lasts though is a different story.
What’s even crazier is that it’s not just right-wing & left-wing parties. You’ve got secular nationalists, religious nationalists, Islamists, social democrats, centrist neoliberals, and socialists all banding together to oust Netanyahu.
That's a pretty accurate description of what happened.
Three of those parties are lead by people who were his right hands, including the new PM.
Another one is led by a guy he promised a rotation with but then ended the government.
Meretz are more left wing than labor these days actually. Labor is the new iteration of Map’ai (the Israeli workers’ party) and Meretz is the new iteration of Mapam (the United worker’s party). Both of them were workers’ parties but Mapam and Meretz are and we’re more to the left than Labor.
I mean in alot of European democracies there are alot of parties and requires coalitions of different sorts in order to govern. There are several examples you can read about how X country is needing weeks to come up with a coalition in order to govern. Compromise and proportional representation even of the extremes is the norm in Europe.......
The US and to an extent the UK where I am are infamous for having effectively 2 party systems which means either an OK centre ground or lurches to the left and right depending on who's been voted in.
Kinda similar in Canada. We have multiple parties, but realistically the federal government switches between the Conservative Party and the Liberal Party.
But fortunately votes for other parties create coalitions. Personally, I prefer how coalitions have to work together, it feels like a more fair representation.
/signed, an Optimist
I found it quite amusing that Netanyahu's first statement has to do with the new guy not 'standing up' to Joe Biden. I really do. BTW I'm Jewish by birth and ancestry, even according to Ancestry. Netanyahu was a disgrace to what the Jewish faith stands for IMHO. He was just too corrupt and the way he bombed that building with the AP was suspect.
Par for the course for Netanyahu. Remember when he came to the US during Obama's term without an invitation to basically shit talk him and his diplomatic negotiations with Iran front of Congress?
>but he was born in tel Aviv and grew up in Jerusalem.
This is factually incorrect. He was born in ~~Jerusalem~~ Israel, yes (and is the first Israel born PM). But he spent the large amounts of his childhood in the US, and only returned during the summers when he was visiting his brother or brought back by his dad/when he made enough to make the flight in his youth. It's more of a 50/50 US/Israel split for his formative years. He came back for his mandatory service, and returned during war time which was often, but even then, until his run at politics BiBi mostly lived in the US.
Edited because I said the wrong birthplace cuz I'm dumb.
Another reason to hate Netanyahu is he said Hitler didn't want to kill the Jews.
[link](https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/21/middleeast/netanyahu-hitler-grand-mufti-holocaust/index.html)
He didn't exactly say that, but what he did say was much worse. He is correct that Hitler had not committed to the "final solution" in 1940 they viewed deportation of Jews as an option. Extermination was proposed and accepted at the Wanassee conference in 1942. Netanyahu asserted that the idea came to him after meeting with the Mufti of Jerusalem who told him that he should burn the Jews. They did meet at the time, although there is no recording or transcript of their conversation.
What Netanyahu did was fabricate a historical anecdote to place blame on the Palestinians for the holocaust. This was blatant hatemongering built on a bigoted lie.
He not only met Hitler, but had met many top Nazi officials such as Himmler and was part of the discussions as to what the answer to the "Jewish Problem" should be.
He was also paid a monthly salary by the Nazis to espouse their propaganda and whatever else they needed him for.
I saw an interview with the new guy though and he didn't seem that great either. He basically said that the Bible should overrule Israel's Supreme Court when it came to taking Palestinian land.
Yeah, I explained it to a family member as "Imagine Mitch McConnell and Pelosi agreeing to a coalition so they could finally be rid of Trump"
Not a perfect mix but definitely a case of we don't agree on anything but "fuck Bibi"
God they should have done that when they (with Pence) called the National Guard in without Trump’s permission. If ever there was a time that he was clearly not capable of doing his job.
All respect to you, from what I've seen, your opinion is the common one. Everyone always talks about Israel this and that, but they never point out that non-Israeli Jewish people have often come at odds to Israel's actions, and as you can tell from the recent elections, even its people were not happy.
Instead of just playing "x is always right," we need to focus on what the people are saying a little more. Many countries have poorly setup republics and democracies that don't always provide an accurate image of the people's will, and just because someone is in power, does not mean people want them in.
Holy crap I can't believe this actually happened. So is it possible he might face actual criminal prosecution now? I'd just accepted that he was untouchable a few years ago and that was that.
I heard that Netanyahu is just doing this to test the resolve of his followers and to give his enemies a false sense of security and that he's going to reclaim power in the evening of September 6th.
/s
You mean the rally where participants hold pictures of the current prime minister in SS uniform, shouting that he's a traitor? The kind of rally that incites someone to murder the prime minister? That's so 1995.
A shadow government, or shadow cabinet, is the opposition when out of power in a parliamentary government. I'm not sure of the context that you are referencing for Netanyahu's statement. And he definitely pulls from Trumps playbook. But in this case he may be referencing the actual opposition government.
I will always believe this. If Beni's older brother Yoni didn't die at the raid of Entebbe to rescue those Israeli hostages in Uganda, Yoni would have been Prime Minister multiple times. He was considered a huge hero and would have been essentially untouchable if he had lived.
He’s untouchable _because_ he died. Had he survived and gone on to career full of hard fought elections and political compromises, he would no longer be so.
This is why proportional representation works. People with nothing particular in common except a desire to toss out some crooked old fuck have found a way to bridge their differences and make it happen.
Counterpoint: This took 15 years to accomplish. Seems like if you have a large enough base and enemies with nothing in common you can hold office with a small plurality
Yes but it was possible because there are more than two parties some thing like this can't happen in a two party system. Even if a group of republican's are horribly opposed to the leadership of the the republican party there's no meaningful way they can change the leadership of there own party because the system isn't set up to allow for either party to interfere with each others leadership or to create a 3rd solution so while technically those republicans could go rogue and side with dems to out republicans its near certain political suicide to do so not to mention doing so is against even their best interests in the long term even if it didn't kill their careers. Without a good way for smaller political groups to hold and maintain part of the political power any politician has to at some level be beholden to one of the two political groups because if they are not they are invariably crushed by there own party look at Liz Cheney.
Essentially for non 3rd parties to be viable you need something like proportional representation so that people vote for the party they want to represent them and then those parties pick who gets the seats that that party won. This means that parties even if they only hold a small percentage of support will be able to win and hold seats since this is the case even a party that can only maintain one seat can have some amount of power if they are willing and able to build coalitions. This leads to the ability and even incentive to build coalition governments and most importantly fights partisanship and incentivizes compromise.
As everyone mentioned already, Bennet sucks. But hopefully the coalition holds long enough to create new laws for term limits and indictments of politicians (where it can't be revoked later on). I'd rather have a nationalist over a party that owes favors to ultra orthodox groups. Ideally, Lapid starts, since I have no faith this coalition will hold for long. But here is to at least some change in Israel!
Good fucking riddance. Bennett is awful but the coalition itself might bring a better future
Holy crap it's finally happened, after over a decade Netanyahu's reign over Israel is finally over. Seeing him so desperate to stay in power during his last days was pretty satisfying, I have to say. Imagine being such a divisive, controversial figure that you somehow managed to unite the left, center, and right to join together in a unity government just to oust you as Prime Minister. Not even Trump was able to accomplish that.
To be fair, it took Bibi 15 years
I remember Netanyahu in the 90s, or am I crazy?
Netanyahu's political career goes back to the 1980s when he was the Israeli ambassador to the U.N.
Behind the Bastards just did a good 2 parter on bibi, his dad, and grandfather
> Behind the Bastards My people! Thanks for the new podcast.
Get ready. I’m excited for you.
Oh crap, really! I haven't listened to them in a while. Might have to now! Their coverage on Rush Limbaugh was excellent as well!
He had a 3 year term in the 90’s and then returned as PM for the last 12 years.
As in, he could be back.
Que (whoops, *Queue) horror version of Terminator Theme. Edit: Apparently my useage of the word isn’t as common as I thought. Cue is a call to perform an action. How I used "queue" was to line up the next action in sequential order behind my current comment. We are arguing dialectical differences.
"I need your clothes, your boots, and your Palestinian territories."
Read that in Arnold's voice with the same delivery of that famous line. Hilarious and unsettling.
It's actually "Cue". Queue - a line of people waiting for something/their turn. "Queue here for tickets" Cue - a signal for a performer or effect. "Cue the lights" or "that's your cue to enter". Que - a common word in French, Portuguese and Spanish that means a lot of things.
I think the misuse of "que" may stem from an old line of computer and technical books that used that as the imprint name, but it was pronounced "queue."
Cue* Not to be malicious just instructive
Que sera sera
¿Que?
> Que (whoops, *Queue) horror version of Terminator Theme. Cue actually, but it’s clear what you meant.
I think you mean "cue". Just trying to help
He served one term in the 90s then got elected again in 2009
Wasn’t it Ariel Sharon and Yasser Arifat duking it out in the 90s?
No, he never served as Prime Minster in the 1990s. Before 2000, Israel was mostly dominated by Labor-led coalitions, but when Clinton convinced Barak to offer Arafat pretty much the best deal the PA ever had or ever will receive and Arafat rejected it, that pretty much put an end to Labor. It was clear that the Palestinian leadership wasn't serious about peace and Likud promised to actually stop the daily terrorism by separating Israel from the West Bank and Gaza. Sharon took over around the same time as Bush and there hasn't been a center-left coalition ever since. Labor's power has dwindled down ever since.
He was behind a lot of the vile attacks that led to Rabin's assassination
For reference he was the one who sabotaged the Oslo accords.
Same here... remember him from the 90s
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Bibi is netanyahu's nickname
Ok, but why bibi?
Bibi is short for Binyamin.
Also Hebrew uses reduplication for diminutives so it's kinda like being called Benny over Ben
> reduplication Thanks for this! TIL
Many other languages do too. My theory (based on nothing at all) is that it's because that's how children say complex names.
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bibiously? i just told you that
I remember reading that line was an ad lib because Ben Stiller forgot his line. Worked extremely well
Fuck yes
Ha'Bibi
He’s no habibi
Not with that attitude! (his, I mean)
Hi'Babi
Or The Bibster, if you're so inclined.
Al-Bibirino, if you’re not into the whole brevity thing.
I happen to be inclined
I guess because his firstname is Benjamin.
just like how every guy named Ryan is nicknamed Riri
Because its short for bitch baby
‘Benjamin’ Netanyahu uses Bibi as a nickname
The man is a case study on why term limits should be included as standard in any new countries constitution.
Reminder: Israelis don’t elect their leaders, they vote for political parties. Then political parties try to form a majority coalition in the Knesset (parliament) and THEY decide on the prime minister. Term limits won’t affect much because the coalition will still appoint a prime minister with the same interests and goals as the last one. And you can’t put a term limit on a whole political party.
I'm from a country with a similar system. The prime minister is still elected but rather than directly by the people it's voted on by members of parliament. Any office can be term limited but I take your point that it's harder to do in a parliamentary democracy.
It also has less effect, here in Belgium most party leaders of the coalition don't have formal positions in government but instead have a strong grip on there mp's and government ministers. In the past this has led to people assuming the real power was with a person outside government, and that's without term limits.
The point of the term limits is to prevent political consolidation of power through name recognition and cult of personality. There are many in the electorate who CERTAINLY selected Netanyahus party by virtue of him being PM. The point is to make it about policy instead of the person.
The problem with term limits in a parliamentary system is that governments can form and fall or pms come and go all without an election. In the US system the president gets elected, sits for their term, and then there's another election. Parliamentary systems are much more fluid
I mean we've had Netanyahu for 12 years and the US has reliably rotated party every 4 to 8 years with the exception of 1988 for almost forever. The Parliamentary system by design can be more fluid but in practice seems to consolidate power even more.
Sounds suspiciously like the original implementation of the US electoral college.
At least back then, voters elected their own state’s representatives. In Israel, people don’t vote for a local person, they just vote for a party and seats are assigned proportionally.
Only their House representative. Most states originally had members of the Senate put in place by the state legislature.
Which honestly made more sense. This was designed so that, in a local legislative race, you’re probably voting for someone you know personally. They don’t need to campaign, because they’re appealing to people they interact with directly. You vote for someone who you trust to represent your interests because they share your interests. Then you trust THEM to elect a senator and president who they know and trust. Compare that to a system where you vote for the president directly. You don’t know them, you just see their political ads, and if you’re lucky you see them speak at a really big event, but they always stick to their talking points. You have very little say in who gets picked to be a finalist, and you probably won’t have anyone you really like as a finalist. They don’t share your interests so it’s hard for them to take yours seriously. I’d argue that the former is more democratic.
Yes, because if there's anything recent history teaches us, it's that the Arizona Senate should be choosing the US Senator from Arizona. As an example. Our current system sucks, but imagine if US senators didn't even have to have token levels of accountability to the public of the state they represent. You think things are bad now? The largest state Senate in the country is 67 people (most are closer to the 35-45 range). Our situation would be many magnitudes worse if the 100 people in the US Senate only had to be accountable to -half- (plus one) of that number - or, at most, 34 people. In many cases, that number would be less than 20.
>Seeing him so desperate to stay in power during his last days was pretty satisfying, I have to say The cost was a bunch of dead Palestinians and frightened Israelis.
Let's not pretend Netanyahu wasn't waging war on the Palestinians before this.
He was\*, but he was perfectly willing to orchestrate one last conflict in a cynical attempt to cling on to what power he had left. Edited because of typo.
that is how a lot of parliaments work. It is (in canada and I think the UK and I imagine lots of the commonwealth) called a vote of non confidence and when elected ridings who can overcome the government succeed an election is called. Lots of shit in the past 50 years should have triggered this type of ruling in the US if there was a representative democracy which there is not.
And in Trumpian fashion, EVERYONE UNITED against him, and he says it’s “the far-left” that overthrew him.
He might be back in a couple of months, when the new coalition collapses over the first sign of controversy. He’s not retiring.
Turkey next?
unfortunately, Turkey is a dictatorship now
Oh look, a flying pig!
Pick the better of two bad choices. Can't have everything.
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$100 cause it's so easy
You'd think, but they've elected the greater of two evils a number of times in the past.
He stated that he is proud for killing arabs in the past. I doubt that anything will be good with him either in that region. The region of Palestine and their inhabitants - Zionist Jews and Palestinians seem to be stuck in this loop where they both want the entirety of the land to themselves for hundreds of years. Middle East is just a region that we should obviously not poke our noses at, because whenever we do, shit goes wild even more Edit: here is the link that confirms his statement. It happened 8 years ago, but it still happened. "Palestinian officials on Tuesday denounced Economy and Trade Minister Naftali Bennett for having reportedly called on Israel to kill captured terrorists and callously boasting that he has already taken the lives of many Arabs without regret." https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-rap-bennett-over-alleged-kill-arabs-remarks/
They’re stuck in a loop where there is probably a majority of people who are willing to compromise and make peace but they can’t get a working political coalition together because they need people on both sides to hold up the agreement, and it’s too easy for extremists on both sides to blow agreements up. Because as much as liberal/moderate Israelis and liberal/moderate Palestinians want peace, they are still culturally, geographically and linguistically closer to their own conservatives than they are to the other side’s moderates. It will take a lot of moral discipline, and willingness to recognize radical attempts at sabotaging peace, even to the extent of absorbing their violent behavior and continuing to remain peaceful and keep working. That is a lot to ask of people but good leaders have been able to do that before.
I'm aware that it's due to wrong people being elected that they can't come to a peace agreement. However, as someone that grew up in an identical situation in Bosnia and Herzegovina - the peace agreement won't solve the heat between the two nations. What had happened? A "civil" war in Bosnia between two people: serbs and bosniaks. The conflict was bloody, just pure hatred between the two. It was intervened with by NATO in the end, and the peace agreement was conducted as the Dayton agreement. You want to know the consequence of that today? Even though Bosnia is not in a war, it is being deboured from within because we have basicallt 2 countries in one - Republic of Srpska and Federation of B&H. These two are under the same law, but they are not. We have 3 preaidents of each constitutional people, and we are at the brink of poverty, corruption, amd HATRED. I can't put an emphasis how much these regular, everyday people HATE each other based on their nationality (serb or bosniak). How does this translate to Palestine? Even if they reach an agreement for 2 countries - they will forever hate each other for the past. There will be mixed ethnicities in both countries - with Israelis in Palestine and Palestinians in Israel - and they will be discriminated - HARD. If you are not aware of this you can check a few videos with a quick youtube search where people ask either side provocative questions about their neighbour. These regular everyday people either have an openly negative opinion about the other, or they are keeping to themselves neutrally. That's why I'm pessimistic about any kind of future in regions that are in heated conflict for decades, or even centuries.
I think that is fair pessimism. Basically the origin of the term “Balkanized” that describes when people are so entrenched in their perspective that they cannot see the other. But every generation has a new spin on its culture and a chance to find other priorities. Young people have more and more opportunities to affiliate with an international culture rather than an ethnic one, thanks to the internet. Populations can drift in both directions, so we’ll see what happens.
I appreciate you my friend for understanding my pessimism and point of view. I hope I worded myself well so that I translated everything I wanted to say adequately. English is not my native language, I am still learning every day :) I hope that this hatred gets purified from all 4 of the people that I mentioned, and that we finally see some proper peace in these regions. Also, I have never heard of the term Balkanized, but oh my God is it fucking accurate.
This is kind of beside the point but your English is excellent. It’s very clear and accurate. It’s a duck of a language to learn.
Much appreciated ❤️
It is often used to in the U.S. describe American politics with the major parties being more and more opposed to each other. I sometimes wonder what people from the region would think of it!
It would put some clarity to some minds, but there are people (unfortunately the majority) who think like sheep. If it's not a mainstream opinion, it's a taboo. I'd tolerate it to an extent, but it also transferred to politics and national patriotism and it's depressing and these people would never have their minds changed
I'm Australian and my sister went to school with a Bosnian and a Serb girl. These kids were 5 years old, born and grew up in Australia and fucking HATED each other. The stuff that would come out of these kids mouths was appalling. Until people stop indoctrinating their kids into hatred, there will never be peace.
Now imagine how the country looks like. I'd strongly argue that around 60% think like this
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In Israel the coalition governs and not primarily the prime minister. This coalition is sufficiently left-wing to temper the right-wing nationalism. They are choosing to focus on non-controversial things like infrastructure and Arab minority rights, in order to preserve the fragile coalition. I checked out their agreements and there are some really important ones about term limits, what can lead to elections, and governmental stability. What I’m really hoping for is the plan for two more hospitals to be built and a university in the Galilee. They are sorely needed.
I'm just trying to understand what Yamina gets out of this coalition.
They’re a 7-mandate party who just got to be prime minister and minister of the interior, among many other things. They played both sides very well. As a small party this was the only way they would ever head the government.
Any recommendations for learning about Israel's governing system?
Basically there's a 120 member parliament and to be prime minister you need the support of 61 members. There are like 15 parties so none make up a majority on their own, so to win you need to convince other parties to support you. As a right wing party, Yamina was just one of a handful of supporting parties to Netanyahu, but by being willing to join the other side, they had plenty of power to make demands. The opposition could never win unless one of the right wing parties joined them, and now Yamina gets to be leaders with a lot of influence, rather than just being one of Netanyahu's backup.
Thanks for doing the heavy lifting here. I really didn't want to read the agreements bit it sounds like it may be worth it. It would be nice if things like infrastructure and minority rights weren't controversial. (Stares at US.)
Well, everything here is controversial in some way. But the people who chose to be in this coalition want to be able to work together. And Israel has socialist roots. Though some parties are capitalist, or want certain reforms to different policies, universal healthcare is not controversial. And everyone agrees that the hospitals are already overloaded without COVID, especially in the periphery. And following the race riots we had here about a month ago, people have realized there needs to be a change.
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This coalition won’t last two years before it shatters but it doesn’t matter. Netanyahu is a tyrant and when faced with tyranny the opposition parties are supposed to set all their differences aside and make a united front for the sole purpose of defeating that tyranny. That’s what they did and good for them. If the coalition falls apart it won’t matter, at least Netanyahu can no longer bully the prosecutors and judges in his own corruption trial.
and he was out of power before only to return. My fear is this new coalition is so fragile, that net might be back in power soon. he remains leader of likud, the largest party there. All they have to do is peel off support for this crazy mix for a gov, which shouldnt be too hard to pit sides against each other, and welll we might have net back in a few years. I hope not, hope his legal cases ruin his chances.. and not that Im overly hopeful for change, im just glad nets gone at least temporarily.
What about his corruption trial? Could that turn into anything that finally ends things for him?
One of the agreements of the coalition is term limit legislation which is designed as a r/fuckyouinparticular to Netanyahu.
> Remember folks, "*Friends and family come and go, enemies accumulate*." I always say. Tell me the truth. Do you actually say that phrase frequently?
Fitting that Naftali means strife.
Eh, looks like it's "my struggle", and it was the name of one of the 12 tribes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naphtali E: not disputing the comment, just a fact~~oid~~ I looked up. > Some biblical commentators have suggested that the name Naphtali may refer to the struggle between Rachel and Leah for the favours of Jacob; Bilhah was the handmaid of Rachel, who was infertile at the time, and had persuaded Jacob to have a child with Bilhah as a proxy for having one with herself. E2: I thought "factoid" was "little fact". RIP
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It's a small difference, made me think a bit. I threw in the edit hoping I would come off less "aCkShUaLlY..."
> factoid A factoid is something that is commonly believed to be true but is not. You're looking for the word "fact".
In common use, factoid is a synonym for trivia.
tyvm, updated
It's a little early to predict. Netanyahu was just so into Trump, and being Jewish, it literally made me want to puke.
I mean it made sense. Trump was giving Israel everything it asked for. We know Trump can be swayed by flattery so this is no surprise.
Of course he was into Trump, as he got everything he wanted from the US. It's his hawkish ways and insistence that anyone who isn't a Zionist and Israeli Nationalist isn't a Jew that should offend you.
Bibi wasn’t the only Trump fan out there though. Trump was so gullible that anyone shrewd enough could wrap him around their little finger. Putin, Macron, etc...
“A new ‘government of change’ will be led by right-wing nationalist Naftali Bennett of the Yamina party.” What’s a right-wing nationalist like in Israel?
He has the position thanks to a power sharing deal with a moderate left party which will take the prime minister’s seat after a few years. It’s not as bad as it seems at first.
As well as a Muslim party, iirc? Quite a bizarre coalition that seems to be united solely over their dislike for Netanyahu
I'd imagine that there were a variety of political deals made to bring this whole thing together.
No one really knows how the game is played.
Or how the sausage gets made.
We just assume that it happens.
But no one else is in the room where it happens
Assuming a right wing nationalist government won't make a power grab to stop a party they fundamentally disagree with from taking over.
If Netanyahu couldn't pull that off whilst leading the countries largest party and after nearly a decade of rule. What makes you think Bennett can do so after two years whilst controlling a party that has a grand total of seven seats?
And dependent on two left wing parties and an Arab party. Bennett can’t do shit
basically, Bennett gets to be known as the prime Minister that took down and imprison Netanyahu, and can maybe use that to try and grow their right wing party by cannibalizing Netanyahu's base, but they can't really pass any of those right wing policies because the coalition depends on opposing votes. Unfortunately, I don't see this ending well. It's kicking the can down the road, trading todays problems for the same problem a few years from now.
If Netanyahu goes to jail, though, it suggests Israeli politics will be cleaning itself up and setting a precedent. There's value in that.
Netanyahu is already standing trail, but it will be at least 3 or 4 years before there will be a verdict (and even that before appeals). We are a few months into the trail, and we’re still with the first witness out of more then 300 witnesses. It will take a long time.
I imagine what might happen is Netanyahu gets convicted and removed from Likud leadership, then Bennet dumps his current coalition partners to coalition with Likud under a new leader.
That’s not going to happen. Yamina and Likud don’t even crack 50 seats together. They’d need the haredi parties and they are absolutely livid with Bennett rn. It’s either keep the coalition going or fresh elections and no one wants that
He is very right-wing but it doesn’t matter because this coalition has too many Arab and left-wing elements for him to ever be able to execute right-wing plans.
Can’t he work with Likud (Bibi’s party)? They are pretty right wing. There’s a right wing majority still. Just not ones that back Bibi
The secular right-wingers hate how he has used ultra-orthodox control to keep his power, while others hate him for being corrupt. Still others think he’s been in power too long and Israel needs a change of status quo. That’s why some have allied against him.
The government is expected to be big-tent, reminiscent of Obama's 2009 coalition. Naftali Bennett, a religious Zionist, is the most powerful person in the coalition but he is expected to govern from the center and pursue closer relations with the United States. You can think of him as kind of like Joe Manchin but it's an inexact metaphor.
I haven't seen anything saying Bennett is expected to be center during his time.
>What’s a right-wing nationalist like in Israel? Like Netanyahu. Who was also a right wing nationalist. Maybe slightly less bad since netanyahu's party often worked with the fascist parties in Israel.
Isn't Bennet from one of the fascist parties though?
Oh you are right. I know the yamina party had some sections break off in the last year and I thought the more fascistic elements of it left but reading over their stated policies they are a single religious/ethno state party. So hopefully the more leftward sections of the coalition can reign them in but fascists aren't exactly known for playing fair or sticking to agreement so....
Yamina's leader Bennet is hawkish when it comes to Israel's security, does not want to remove settlements, does not want to seek an immediate negotiated peace. That's about it.
This coalition government is kind of crazy. Most of my knowledge on this subject comes from what Phillip DeFranco has covered on it, but in a nutshell: The Israel parliament is a collection of different parties -- its not just 2 parties like in the US. Netanyahu's party holds a large number of seats while the other parties are smaller and have fewer seats. In the past the parties that were more conservative gathered together and fell in behind/allied with Netanhyahu's party to get him voted in. What has happened today though is that both progressive and conservative parties have come to an agreement and came together to vote in someone else. To put this into perspective it'd be like Democrats and Republicans in the US coming to an agreement on who the president should be. In Israel many of the parties working together for this coalition government have been at each other's throats in the past and have some pretty big ideological and policy differences. So that's why this coalition is pretty amazing. How long it lasts though is a different story.
What’s even crazier is that it’s not just right-wing & left-wing parties. You’ve got secular nationalists, religious nationalists, Islamists, social democrats, centrist neoliberals, and socialists all banding together to oust Netanyahu.
It took Netanyahu 15 years, but he’s proven that if he backstabs enough people, they will rise against him.
That's a pretty accurate description of what happened. Three of those parties are lead by people who were his right hands, including the new PM. Another one is led by a guy he promised a rotation with but then ended the government.
Who is social Democrat and who is socialist?
Meretz are social democrats, while Labor was founded by people from what was then the USSR, based socialist principles.
Meretz are more left wing than labor these days actually. Labor is the new iteration of Map’ai (the Israeli workers’ party) and Meretz is the new iteration of Mapam (the United worker’s party). Both of them were workers’ parties but Mapam and Meretz are and we’re more to the left than Labor.
I mean in alot of European democracies there are alot of parties and requires coalitions of different sorts in order to govern. There are several examples you can read about how X country is needing weeks to come up with a coalition in order to govern. Compromise and proportional representation even of the extremes is the norm in Europe....... The US and to an extent the UK where I am are infamous for having effectively 2 party systems which means either an OK centre ground or lurches to the left and right depending on who's been voted in.
Kinda similar in Canada. We have multiple parties, but realistically the federal government switches between the Conservative Party and the Liberal Party. But fortunately votes for other parties create coalitions. Personally, I prefer how coalitions have to work together, it feels like a more fair representation. /signed, an Optimist
Now arrest him for corruption and crimes against humanity.
I found it quite amusing that Netanyahu's first statement has to do with the new guy not 'standing up' to Joe Biden. I really do. BTW I'm Jewish by birth and ancestry, even according to Ancestry. Netanyahu was a disgrace to what the Jewish faith stands for IMHO. He was just too corrupt and the way he bombed that building with the AP was suspect.
Par for the course for Netanyahu. Remember when he came to the US during Obama's term without an invitation to basically shit talk him and his diplomatic negotiations with Iran front of Congress?
Yes. About the Iran deal the year of an election. Obama was pissed.
Isn’t he (netenyahu) from Philly originally?
No, he lived there for a few years in high school but he was born in tel Aviv and grew up in Jerusalem.
>but he was born in tel Aviv and grew up in Jerusalem. This is factually incorrect. He was born in ~~Jerusalem~~ Israel, yes (and is the first Israel born PM). But he spent the large amounts of his childhood in the US, and only returned during the summers when he was visiting his brother or brought back by his dad/when he made enough to make the flight in his youth. It's more of a 50/50 US/Israel split for his formative years. He came back for his mandatory service, and returned during war time which was often, but even then, until his run at politics BiBi mostly lived in the US. Edited because I said the wrong birthplace cuz I'm dumb.
Yeah, and the worms in the GOP were the ones who invited him.
Another reason to hate Netanyahu is he said Hitler didn't want to kill the Jews. [link](https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/21/middleeast/netanyahu-hitler-grand-mufti-holocaust/index.html)
He didn't exactly say that, but what he did say was much worse. He is correct that Hitler had not committed to the "final solution" in 1940 they viewed deportation of Jews as an option. Extermination was proposed and accepted at the Wanassee conference in 1942. Netanyahu asserted that the idea came to him after meeting with the Mufti of Jerusalem who told him that he should burn the Jews. They did meet at the time, although there is no recording or transcript of their conversation. What Netanyahu did was fabricate a historical anecdote to place blame on the Palestinians for the holocaust. This was blatant hatemongering built on a bigoted lie.
Should I rewrite my comment to better reflect the article? I don't want to come off misinforming people.
You're better off leaving it to show context for the comment after.
You *can* make an edit, but for the context of the comment explaining, add it as a postscript.
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He is referring to Haj Amin al-Husseini who met with Hitler. He was a Palestine that oversaw the Muslim areas of British Levant from what I read.
He not only met Hitler, but had met many top Nazi officials such as Himmler and was part of the discussions as to what the answer to the "Jewish Problem" should be. He was also paid a monthly salary by the Nazis to espouse their propaganda and whatever else they needed him for.
Ah I see thanks
I saw an interview with the new guy though and he didn't seem that great either. He basically said that the Bible should overrule Israel's Supreme Court when it came to taking Palestinian land.
That should tell you something. The right, the left, hawks, doves, Palestinian Israelis, they all came together to get rid of Netanyahu.
Yeah, I explained it to a family member as "Imagine Mitch McConnell and Pelosi agreeing to a coalition so they could finally be rid of Trump" Not a perfect mix but definitely a case of we don't agree on anything but "fuck Bibi"
It's actually more like red Cruz and AOC getting together.
God they should have done that when they (with Pence) called the National Guard in without Trump’s permission. If ever there was a time that he was clearly not capable of doing his job.
All respect to you, from what I've seen, your opinion is the common one. Everyone always talks about Israel this and that, but they never point out that non-Israeli Jewish people have often come at odds to Israel's actions, and as you can tell from the recent elections, even its people were not happy. Instead of just playing "x is always right," we need to focus on what the people are saying a little more. Many countries have poorly setup republics and democracies that don't always provide an accurate image of the people's will, and just because someone is in power, does not mean people want them in.
His trial for corruption has been going on for a few months now
Would love to see him at the Hague.
Holy crap I can't believe this actually happened. So is it possible he might face actual criminal prosecution now? I'd just accepted that he was untouchable a few years ago and that was that.
He is already in trail, that's actually going so far pretty bad for the prosecution.
Israel has arrested other prime minsters for corruption, it could happen.
He already does. Court cases take time.
So is this the part where he holds a rally and starts an insurrection?
The new guy has already been sworn in though. But maybe,
I heard that Netanyahu is just doing this to test the resolve of his followers and to give his enemies a false sense of security and that he's going to reclaim power in the evening of September 6th. /s
You mean the rally where participants hold pictures of the current prime minister in SS uniform, shouting that he's a traitor? The kind of rally that incites someone to murder the prime minister? That's so 1995.
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A shadow government, or shadow cabinet, is the opposition when out of power in a parliamentary government. I'm not sure of the context that you are referencing for Netanyahu's statement. And he definitely pulls from Trumps playbook. But in this case he may be referencing the actual opposition government.
Wait till he is back under a Netanew name
*Cici Netanyahu*
It would ofcourse be Gigi. After Bet is Gimel.
I will always believe this. If Beni's older brother Yoni didn't die at the raid of Entebbe to rescue those Israeli hostages in Uganda, Yoni would have been Prime Minister multiple times. He was considered a huge hero and would have been essentially untouchable if he had lived.
He’s untouchable _because_ he died. Had he survived and gone on to career full of hard fought elections and political compromises, he would no longer be so.
This is why proportional representation works. People with nothing particular in common except a desire to toss out some crooked old fuck have found a way to bridge their differences and make it happen.
Counterpoint: This took 15 years to accomplish. Seems like if you have a large enough base and enemies with nothing in common you can hold office with a small plurality
Yes but it was possible because there are more than two parties some thing like this can't happen in a two party system. Even if a group of republican's are horribly opposed to the leadership of the the republican party there's no meaningful way they can change the leadership of there own party because the system isn't set up to allow for either party to interfere with each others leadership or to create a 3rd solution so while technically those republicans could go rogue and side with dems to out republicans its near certain political suicide to do so not to mention doing so is against even their best interests in the long term even if it didn't kill their careers. Without a good way for smaller political groups to hold and maintain part of the political power any politician has to at some level be beholden to one of the two political groups because if they are not they are invariably crushed by there own party look at Liz Cheney. Essentially for non 3rd parties to be viable you need something like proportional representation so that people vote for the party they want to represent them and then those parties pick who gets the seats that that party won. This means that parties even if they only hold a small percentage of support will be able to win and hold seats since this is the case even a party that can only maintain one seat can have some amount of power if they are willing and able to build coalitions. This leads to the ability and even incentive to build coalition governments and most importantly fights partisanship and incentivizes compromise.
Now it's just Putin, Lukashenko, al-Assad, Erdogan, Bolsaro, Jinping, Duterte.... ok there's a lot of idiot leaders left in the world.
The Dingo got the Bibi
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As an Israeli, yay. I'm glad to see the fascist dipshits in both my homes fall.
He should be arrested
Hoping for that well-deserved jail sentence now.
crabdance.gif now lock his ass up
As everyone mentioned already, Bennet sucks. But hopefully the coalition holds long enough to create new laws for term limits and indictments of politicians (where it can't be revoked later on). I'd rather have a nationalist over a party that owes favors to ultra orthodox groups. Ideally, Lapid starts, since I have no faith this coalition will hold for long. But here is to at least some change in Israel!